#but if it was written by a menace

[jay-wasstuff]

Nobody, absolutely nobody:

This motherfucker:

[hyperfixatinator]

Where is the line?

In the comics, Tim Drake's moral code is an enigma to me, particularly his stance on the Batclan's no-kill rule. For all the fans who say he's always one step away from full blown villainy, there are even more saying he's a strict goody two-shoes who could never stoop that low.

Then there's the different takes on where Tim draws the line between these two extremes. Personally, I find that line hard to pinpoint. Digging for canon demonstrations of his morals has lead me to more questions than answers. My biggest question right now is:

What counts as breaking the no-kill rule in Tim's eyes?

Luckily, the Robins 2021 comics shed some light on this. In issue #3, "Tim", or rather an imposter of him, said that choosing not to save someone isn't the same as killing them, and that letting a villain die can be a way to get justice. Normally, this point would be moot since it's not Tim himself who said it. However, at the end of issue #6, the real Tim clarified that what the imposter said WAS his real opinion on the matter.

Not only that, but Tim has shown this belief through his thoughts and actions before. Twice.

The first time goes all the way back to Robin 1991 #5. During the fight against King Snake, Tim kicked him through a nearby window, fifty stories above the ground. As King Snake's life hung in the balance, Shiva appeared and commanded Tim to kill him.

Tim refused. He walked away, leaving King Snake entirely at Shiva's mercy.

What gets me is that Tim made no move to save King Snake from falling. And he made no effort to stop Shiva from committing the murder, either. His only thought as he heard the man's scream was "Fifty stories is a long way to fall."

The second time was in Red Robin 2009 #26. Tim orchestrated a whole plan to manipulate Captain Boomerang into getting killed by Mr. Freeze. The whole time, Tim blamed Captain Boomerang for making all those bad choices, despite Tim being the one raising the chances of them being made. Tim believed he was innocent because he wasn't directly participating.

Tim then stopped that plan, but not for any noble reason. He decided that he couldn't let anyone else kill Captain Boomerang but himself.

Tim couldn't bring himself to do that, either. So he had to spare his father's killer in the end.

This seems pretty cut and dry so far, right? Tim believing that letting villains die is alright as long he doesn't do the deed himself? I'd think so too, if there weren't other moments contradicting this.

In Robin #35, Steph insisted on leaving an enemy who got buried under the snow to die. Tim chastised her for it.

Neither of them were responsible for the snow, or for the enemy getting trapped in it. Plus, that guy tried to kill them with a chainsaw moments prior, so he's not exactly an innocent damsel in distress.

Maybe it was because this enemy wasn't a big enough fish to fry. We didn't really get confirmation that this guy has actually killed before, and he's around goon status at best.

But then in Robin #46, Tim chose to save another enemy who got himself into a deadly situation. That enemy was a murderer known as Young El. This time, Tim wasn't telling anyone else why they should save a murderer's life out loud. These were his private thoughts.

Notice how Tim's inner monologue sounded kind of on-the-fence. He contemplated justice finally catching up with Young El as the floorboards gave way, bringing a support beam down on him in the process.

However, Tim immediately switched gears to rescue Young El from under that beam before the water rose too high.

But Tim, as he told Young El the reasons he's saving him, asked himself "Do I even believe what I'm saying?" He could be asking this about two different things he said here. A) "Maybe it's not too late for you to learn something, Young El.", or B) "Death's easier for you when it's the other guy. Death's never been easy for me."

For Tim to doubt his belief in either of these statements is very interesting. He could be questioning if Young El is already too far gone for redemption, or he could be questioning if seeing someone die has never been easy for himself. For all we know, it could be both.

Unfortunately, Tim never got to see if his choice to save him would pay off. Tim wasn't strong enough to lift that beam, and Young El drowned.

There's a question on my mind as I read these pages. What makes this murderer's death different from when Tim let King Snake fall to his "death"? Sure, King Snake didn't actually die, but Tim didn't know that until later when the man came looking for revenge in Gotham.

Tim was once able to simply walk away from what he was certain would be a killer's demise. But then he's consumed by guilt over not being able to prevent a different killer's death down the line, to the point of hallucinating.

On top of that, what changed Tim's mind later? Red Robin #26 and Robins 2021 #3-6 still happened in the future. The only significant difference I can tell is that these two comics involved the killer's of Tim's parents, making it personal. But if the Imposter from Robins 2021 got his beliefs from his profile before his mother's killer got involved, then does that still hold up?

Maybe we should put a pin on it for now. There are other things Tim's done that brings the details of his no-kill rule into question.

Such as that one time Tim actually killed someone with his bare hands.

In Robin issues #51-52, Tim accidentally killed Lady Shiva while drugged on amarilla, a plant that enhances the user's speed beyond human limitations.

It may be argued if the amarilla altered Tim's mind enough to excuse him of fault or not. However, I want to focus on what happened after Shiva was revived. Here's another question to go with the first one:

Does Tim believe the kill still counts if the victim was revived afterwards?

From what I've gathered, yes and no. It's kind of complicated.

After Tim killed Shiva, he was understandably distressed about it, about how he can never take it back.

But after Shiva came back to life? Nothing. He didn't dwell on the fact he broke the vow to never kill. For something that devastating to happen in his life, it's odd that Tim didn't bring it up ever again, privately or otherwise. Especially considering what happened later in Robin #123, when Tim thought he killed Johnny Warlock.

Tim was utterly inconsolable. He lost all faith in his abilities as Robin, and in himself as a whole. It also contributed to his decision to quit being Robin after his dad found out. In general, he seriously dwelled on that "kill" for a much longer time than he had after killing Shiva. The difference being that he knew Shiva was resuscitated immediately afterwards, while Tim didn't know Johnny survived until issue #141.

But there's the fact that Shiva really did die. Her heart and breathing both stopped. So are we to believe Tim moved on from that so easily because she's alive now? What happened to never getting that back?

Come to think of it, not long after Tim killed and revived Shiva, there was someone else who landed in that same boat. Dick.

In Joker: The Last Laugh #6, Dick brutally attacked the Joker after believing he killed Tim. Dick ended up accidentally killing Joker instead, before the clown was resuscitated.

Here's the thing. While Tim was trying to comfort Dick, saying that it's ok because Joker's alive now, Dick didn't believe so. He was still distraught that he killed someone. The fact Joker came back to life afterwards didn't matter to him. To Dick, it still counted. So what does that say about Tim?

Before we move on, there's another person Tim knows who also died and came back from the grave. Jason.

Tim openly acknowledged Jason was killed before coming back, too. Multiple times. For example, when they met up in Red Hood and the Outlaws 2011 #8.

Tim hadn't shown any signs that he thinks Jason's murder doesn't count anywhere, except for maybe once.

In Knight Terrors: Robin #2, Tim and Jason had a heart-to-heart, and Tim said something strange.

"You survived."

Except Jason didn't survive. He died. To say Jason survived that night would've meant he never died to begin with. Him being alive now doesn't change that. Was this Tim telling a white lie to make Jason feel better? Or does Tim see being revived after death as "surviving"?

Ok, now we can move onto the next question. Or rather, bear with me as we go back to the first question. It's a broad topic with plenty more to talk about.

What does Tim count as breaking the no-kill rule?

We already asked how Tim feels about bringing villains back from the dead after killing them. And we asked how Tim feels about leaving a villain to die without getting directly involved. However, we still don't know how much involvement Tim needs to have in an enemy's death before he'll take responsibility for it.

We can confirm he won't mercy kill in Red Robin #21, even if it means giving someone a fate worse than death. No exceptions.

Tim also doesn't allow anyone he's actively teaming up with to kill, especially if he's the one in command. He's been amicable with known killers before (Huntress and Pru, for example), but only when they remain non-lethal while working alongside him.

Apart from that, though, it becomes less clear. However, I think this is a good place to expand on when Tim blew up a lot of League of Assassins bases in Red Robin #8.

I'm not going into whether or not those explosions actually killed anyone. I've seen evidence supporting both sides of this debate, so I'm just going to say it's up to interpretation. What I AM talking about is whether or not Tim would've felt responsible if they had killed someone.

Before overloading every generator in the LOA database, Tim gave a warning to the Wanderer. He told her that he couldn't be held responsible for what would happen to her if she didn't leave.

After initiating the explosions, Tim warned the White Ghost that they had fifteen seconds to leave before it was too late.

Fifteen seconds. That explanation on the mistake of letting him in might've taken roughly another fifteen to twenty seconds. Did the other bases even get a full minute head start? The way some of the people were already running away could imply they at least got a warning, but it's possible they might not have.

Even if everyone in every base received a warning, would that be enough for Tim to avoid holding himself accountable if they didn't make it out in time? Tim's the one who rigged the bases to explode, but I guess giving someone a warning means it's now their fault for not heeding it?

We can't be sure he even considered the possibility of those explosions killing anyone. Tim knew they were dangerous enough to bring the whole Cradle down, and the other ones we saw looked pretty powerful (except the ones in Ra's hideout). But Tim also called Ra's a murderer right after that happened, which would've been very hypocritical if Tim himself thought he committed murder.

So, my guess is either A) Tim relied on sheer luck for those explosions not causing any casualties and chose to believe they hadn't, or B) Tim didn't believe the deaths of anyone caught in them would be his fault.

Again, this isn't about whether or not blowing up the LOA bases killed anyone. It's about how willing Tim was to take that risk, and if he would've blamed himself for anyone getting killed from it.

Either way, it's canon that Tim had no guilt for the explosions he caused, or for anything he did before Red Robin #22. Just ask the Sword of Sin.

This is an exerpt I got from the Fandom DC Database on the Sword of Sin:

"The Sword of Sin can be ignited with the mind of the wielder, if the person is powerful enough. The sword has the ability to conjure in the mind its victims all of the sins for which they are guilty or have not atoned for."

When Tim was stabbed with this sword, he was immune. The Sword of Sin decided he was innocent. Although, I have to ask how reliable this sword was in making that judgement. If the sword is judging others based on its own set principles, then something's not right here.

The Sword of Sin was also used on Dick, and he wasn't immune. It dug into Dicks subconscious and unearthed memories he'd long since repressed. Memories of himself watching a boy get beaten to near death, and then doing nothing. He just walked away.

Now, tell me why the sword brought this to light, but not the time Tim left King Snake to die!

It wasn't an accident. Tim deliberately chose to leave instead of trying to save this man from the murderous Lady Shiva. Sure, Tim was no match for Shiva and he might've not been able to stop her, but the same could be said for an eight year old Dick not stopping a group of much older kids. Neither of them tried to stop the attackers.

Tim didn't atone for it, either. When King Snake returned in Batman #469, Bruce told King Snake that it wasn't Tim who left him to die. We know that's a lie, but Tim never corrected this. He let Shiva take all the blame.

We have two instances of a boy choosing not to prevent someone from having a near death experience. One guilty, and one innocent.

Did the Sword of Sin think Tim was justified because King Snake was corrupt? That doesn't sound holy to me.

Was it because Tim didn't feel any guilt over it, while Dick did? Can the sword's judgement be thrown off by the victim not feeling any shred of guilt over their actions, even subconsciously?

That could make sense given what we know Tim did in the past: King Snake falling, the vandalism (explosions), and ALL the lying over the years (Tim reviving Shiva might count as atonement, so I'm not including that). If the sword based its judgement on God's will alone, then odds are high it would've picked up on one of these.

Even so, I'm not going to sit here and say this is definitely the case. I'm not familiar enough with how the sword effects other characters to make that call.

If this is indeed false, then did the DC universe's version of God decide to pardon Tim of his sins when he prayed earlier that same issue, despite him not believing he had any? I mean, who knows, right?

You can probably see why there's more questions than answers. The point is Tim didn't have any guilt for the things he did before Red Robin #22. Tim was canonically convinced he had nothing to atone for.

So then why did he say the opposite later in Knight Terrors: Robin #2?!

In the heart-to-heart between Tim and Jason, Tim tells him this:

"You have a lot to atone for...We all do..."

Tim knows that the words "we all" include him, right? By saying this, Tim admitted to also having things he needs to atone for, right?

Is this another white lie to make Jason feel better? Is it one of those slight changes the New 52 made to the canon? If not, then why did he change his mind? Did his no-kill rule change and make him feel guilty for some past actions? Is it not the no-kill rule, but something else?

What changed?!

Where does Tim draw the line?

I don't know. We've narrowed it down to a general area, but it's kinda hard to see a line when it's so blurred it could be a gradient.

Tim baffles me. He acts as a steady moral compass for others when he can't even seem to stay consistent with his own. You're free to call it poor writing (and honestly, fair), but I find his hypocrisy fascinating.

That's what it is, isn't it? Tim's a hypocrite who's completely oblivious to being one. And it's not like this was never mentioned in the comics before. Damian called him out on it!

In Batman & Robin 2011 #10, Damian confronted Tim about his near-murderous reaction when Fist Point killed Artemis (Teen Titans Vol 4 annual #1). Damian then accused Tim of constantly rejecting him because they have more in common than Tim's willing to admit.

It's debatable how accurate that accusation was, but Tim had a pretty volatile reaction to it.

"I believe in every choice I make!"

Does he? I don't think someone who's so sure of what he believes in would contradict himself to this extent. Especially if he wasn't doing it on purpose.

He wouldn't vehemently push Bruce's no-kill rule onto others and berate them for bending that rule, only to go and bend that same rule himself when the Batclan isn't around. He also wouldn't exploit what he thinks are loopholes, decide later that those loopholes broke the no-kill rule, and then earnestly claim he never broke it.

Why is he like this?! He's had arguably the most normal childhood out of the whole Batclan before becoming Robin! What could've made him so fickle about this?!

Where does he draw the line? And how will he know when he's crossed it?

[kindaasrikal]

Imagine how weird it was for four only children to suddenly live with the most chaotic and unruly siblings known to man.

Kai and Nya is the current gen of elemental masters stupid sibling duo, and Wu and Garmadon was every other generations.

No because imagine the way Cole, Jay and Zane probably almost had a breakdown the first time Kai and Nya had an argument.

“AT LEAST I ACTUALLY HAVE A BRAIN MR ‘whats 4x4’, DONT COME AT ME WITH THAT SHI ASS VOCABULARY.”

“OH SUREEEE MS OVERACHIEVER AT LEAST I DIDNT ALMOST PASS OUT AFTER MY FIRST ALL NIGHTER, COULD NEVERRRR BE ME.”

“GO BACK TO THE RETIREMENT HOME MR CANDY CORN TEETH.”

“DONT COME AT MY TEETH WHEN YOURE OUT HERE LOOKING LIKE EDNA MODE-”

And then they’re eating cookies as Nya asks again if Kai can finally cut her hair. You have Kai saying he can’t fix that rats nest and Nya saying it’s better than the mop on his head. Those three have never been the same.

And then Lloyd suddenly has Nya and Kai acting like the most irritating people alive after they all became siblings. Cole, Jay and Zane already suffered through those two breaking into their rooms and not leaving, their stuff disappearing, the petty arguments, the random insults, the having to split things fairly and evenly, suddenly being lovingly attacked by one of them, the random staring contests, so on. It’s Lloyd’s turn and he hates every moment of it.

Love to think it was these two’s comfortability with each other that really made them all become family when that comfort spread to all of them. They don’t understand social cues people.

[shotmrmiller]

In desperate need of sucking dick. I know for a fact that Johnny hisses when you deep throat him and Simon throws his head back. Need their hands in my hair as they pushed past my gag reflex and wile away any tears that spill.

STOP because you're sooooo right. definitely tells you that gagging on them isn't necessary (doesn't tell you that they loveeee to feel your throat constrict around their swollen tip. they can't help it it's just so tight 😔)

but still you persevere and well they're not gonna not enjoy it

simon tugs a bit painfully at your hair, strands getting caught between his thick fingers as he pulls your hair up or away from your face

johnny apparently is a professional hairdresser because he's sweeping all stray hairs away with one hand while the other fists the rest of it (sickening like i have no doubt if you ask him to give you a ponytail- if you have the length for it, no matter how small- he'd give you something prim and proper. like ??? do this often?)

soap wipes the tears away. he wants to see nothing but glassy strands of spit on his cock and your face. so much so, he presses a thumb into the corner of your mouth when it's already stuffed full of him cuz the way you drool so readily, watching saliva slowly dribble onto his length and leave a dark stain on his jeans is chefs kiss.

simonnn, on the other hand, likes em. might even let you take a break in between, gagging too much, doesn't want your stomach to churn so he cradles your face in his large hands and pulls you up to your knees and where you thought he might be out of the ordinary sweet he just licks those hot streaks of mild discomfort away. <- disgusting. he loves it tho. taste buds so fried he doesn't react if you happen to have mascara on.

[missholloween]

Paul's fate was sealed from the beginning, and I love all the ways The Guy uses to show us.

The first scene of tgwdlm (after the title song) introduces Paul as a character: who he is, where does he work, who does he work with. In this scene, thanks to Paul actions and words, we learn that Paul isn't the nicest of the guys... And that he doesn't have much going on. He rejects Bill's Mamma Mia invitation, but so does Melissa's soft ball team proposal. As the title song said, he's a grunch.

But then, the next scene is Paul going to Beannie's. We discover that Paul wants to talk to Emma, he wants to get to know her better, to make her laugh. We are introduced to his need, to what he desires, even if Paul isn't fully contious of it by this point.

Then plot starts, we've got our inciting incident (the meteor fall) and a couple of plot beats: our heroes meet the villain, Paul valiantly resists it in their first face to face (what do you want, paul?), and the threat grows stronger and stronger until it takes the first victim our protagonist cares about, that is, Charlotte.

Join us (and die) is the moment where our main cast sees everything the hive is capable of: it's been coy so far, just presenting itself as some dancing craze that controls people. But in that song we discover that those people are dead, and that the hive won't doubt to get nasty if it has to. When Hidgens is explaining this after the song, he's interrupted by Alice's call to Bill. Had the hive gotten into her already? Was it just bad luck? Given that we don't see Alice during the call, we cannot be truly certain of that.

It is then when a fight between Bill, panicked about his daughter, and, Ted, consumed by grief, starts. The fight is different from their previous banter with the whole "kick my head" bit, as both of them are now at their limit. Thankfully, Paul stops the fight by giving Bill a meaningful way to save his daughter. In that scene, Paul decides to go with Bill to get Alice, because he wants to help him.

When Paul says "which is why I'm gonna go with you to get your daughter back", a piano starts playing on that scene. It continues quietly as the scene goes on, just to climax with Emma and Paul's last conversation, where the Inevitable leitmotif starts playing. And then, act 1 finishes.

The Guy is not a conventional musical by any means: we don't have a big act 1 finale song, nor a big leap that the characters take. It is a really modest act 1 finale, and some viewers (including myself) might not notice the change of act on their first watch. However, a big change has happened, although it is subtle: Paul has taken his first step in his hero's journey. He is not only showing his desires (to help Bill, a dear friend to him), but also he's acting. He is taking the iniciative, he's being brave! That decision it's just the beginning of his downfall, that will come to an end in "Let it Out", and the shows knows it. The only thing the score does is to make it clearer for the spectator, if they notice it... And they'll probably won't, too enwrapped in the show.

[seaglassdinosaur]

It’s so insidious way that throughout Little Wolf the suitors are all trying to convince Telemachus to give up fighting. They’re telling him to run, that he’ll die if he loses, that he’s clearly outmatched.

It’s not because any of them think Telemachus is a threat—he’s a single untrained kid against 108 grown men, they could easily overpower him if they wanted to, and even one on one Antinous on his own mocks Telemachus by not taking him seriously, calling the fight entertainment. They do so because everything becomes easier if Telemachus gives up.

Fighting back physically is one last form of resistance, and if they manage to take that away by convincing Telemachus to back down it will serve to break the spirit and resolve of both him and Penelope. If Telemachus doesn’t fight back because he feels he’s too weak, he’ll be admitting powerlessness to stop the violence of the suitors against Penelope and that it isn’t worth defending his mother; it’s tantamount to him admitting he doesn’t believe Odysseus will return and that it isn’t worth holding out and that a remarriage, consensual or not, is inevitable.

[blackleatherjacketz]

Lads, I thought getting a hysterectomy was going to change what I was attracted to. Turns out this beautiful brown-eyed murderer covered in blood and chained up still does it for me when they play Hozier in the background for him.

[dukeofthomas]

"Angry robin" "violent robin" "misbehaving robin" shut up and accept my alternative; spunky Robin. Determined and head strong, can out-stubborn the Batman, has a strong moral-backbone and does what he thinks is right regardless of what anybody else says, Robin. Jason who was sassy and quippy and made crude jokes with a smile on his face. Jason who hid in Bruce's cape and whispered gossip to him. Jason who, if Bruce refused him something, could keep bothering endlessly until Bruce caved. And also dramatic Jason. If Bruce tells him no, it becomes a whole theatrical show; a monologue, a narration, embellishments, and falling onto the floor in his grief upon the fact his cruel father has denied him once again.

(Jason who has suffered through abuse and homelessness and poverty and starvation, who is the Fight out of Fight or Flight, who's built up defenses and walls and when pushed and triggered responds with the thing that's always protected him; anger. He's sweet and kind and funny, and when he sees a pimp hitting a prostitute he gets furious and responds with violence.)

[undefeatablesin]

Watch out ya'll, Sin's sketching Bloodborne comics again! 💀

[witchofthemidlands]

it's past 3am idc anymore. he was hinted but not officially named & had less than 10 minutes of screen time but in my opinion matthew goode is the best modern version of dracula i have seen in YEARS.

[jaguarys]

AU in which Maul just straight up brains Anakin with his speeder in TPM and thereby accidentally avoids the entirety of the fall of the Jedi Order

[endofbeginings]

Thinking about mamma rossella and ferrari drivers over the years.... cheek to cheek, forehead to forehead HAND IN HEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[detective-and-dreamer]

a fun fact about Nora is she's been familiar with the Beth from very early on, because she had a full on public breakdown upon seeing Lucien's body :)

[twstmagica]

spoiler for upcoming interactions

Riddle: without rules we are nothing but animals.

Yuu: BARK BARK MOTHERFUCKER

[dark-side-blog3]

mm sometimes i think my yanderes would take advantage of the fact that I cant do some of the things most people can do with ease like tying their shoes or telling the difference between left and right, or the way i absorb info just to force me into being a baby. Mommy kakyoin would coax me into his lap after heavily drugging me, so I just happily melt into his embrace as he asks me what sound a puppy makes only to be met with a soft whimper of me trying to speak.. or diavolo making me do kindergarten level math in the playpen he keeps in his office for me. -📱

I've been having some trouble with doing tasks most people can do, so it is fun to think about different yanderes making you do baby-level math worksheets, or French vocab sheets and crosswords meant for little kids. Or having those grid papers to write Cantonese and Mandarin, or in your case with mommy Kakyoin, katakana. Why bother teaching you kanji or hiragana? You'll only be confused. And hiragana is more commonly used-- he doesn't need you knowing what common signs and objects actually say. Then you won't feel as lost, should you manage to slip away from his hands for a moment.

Diavolo knows worksheets aren't any fun-- he'd give everything to not have to do them, and still know the people he cares about would be okay. So instead of a little duotang with worksheets for your math, linguistics, or animal noises, Diavolo tries to set up little activities for you to do every day. Little trays with a number of the day, clay in one dish so you can draw the number yourself, roll it on a die, and count it out of marbles. Calling an animal handler to show you the different birds and bugs of the devildom in the throne room (and saving trips to the royal zoo for weeks you've been extra good!).

[thatneoncrisis]

a lot of the time when i see other lesbians discuss bitchy butch and roberta gregory they talk about how seen they feel by the comic and how it replicates so many of their lived experiences then turn and are SHOCKED that it was written by a woman married to a MAN???

and it feels so close to getting the point, like no i dont think the titular character shutting up and getting some dick would fix her nor do i think thats what the comic is trying to say in the slightest, but conversely her blinding hatred (straight up fear at some points) for the world around her also will not help her. she can sit in her house stewing about the good old days of REAL lesbian coffee shops and newspapers and meetings and the imaginary no mxn allowed dyke commune or she can like. meaningfully interact with the current queer landscape around her and not dismiss every femme man as a tr*nny poser and femme woman as a straight gender traitor