#but Jiang Cheng's mom sure doesn't

[great-art-and-a-purple-tongue]

Saw a mdzs fandom post suggesting that chengxian be tagged as incest. And now I'm imagining that Madame Yu would be so against the idea of people believing that Wei Wuxian was part of her blood family that she would actually set up a betrothal between him and Jiang Cheng just to prove it. Not with Jiang Yanli, though; her girl deserves better.

[veliseraptor]

For the AU ask game: Jiang Cheng from immediately post Guanyin Temple (not yet having had a chance for any processing after All That) somehow time travels to Gusu summer camp days.

ooooh a classic concept and a fun one. love to see jiang cheng wrestling with All That and also having to deal with a time loop now to boot, that's what he needed in his life

so I don't think his first thought in this situation is "how do I fix things," I think it is more likely to be "why am I being punished" because that's what it feels like having to do this again, and I don't think his assumption is necessarily immediately that he can change anything so much as just that it'll be the same thing all over again

but! he wouldn't be jiang cheng if he didn't try, so while he's still reeling from all the revelations in the last 24 hours he's going to see what he can do because surely this is early enough that he can make some kind of a difference.

but also he just wants to go home and see his mom and dad because they're alive again right now, I think that's one of the things that hits hardest, actually, that lotus pier is still intact at this point in time, has never fallen at all, and his parents are alive, jiang yanli is alive, everyone is alive.

dealing with wei wuxian is really hard, I think, because he is having all these really big wei wuxian feelings about everything that's happened since but those things haven't happened yet and wei wuxian is, of course, just acting like his normal teenage self and that feels so wrong to jiang cheng, how can he be so carefree and at ease, but of course he can because nothing's gone wrong yet, and jiang cheng is angry because of things that haven't even happened, miserable because of things that haven't even happened

(wei wuxian, meanwhile, like "what the fuck is wrong with my shidi", probably somewhat distracted from his burgeoning lan wangji obsession by this rather disconcerting and concerning situation, because jiang cheng is not necessarily the best at keeping a lid on his feelings even though he is trying)

the other thing is that I think jiang cheng in his emotions firestorm doesn't know how to keep everything from going wrong all over again, because the trigger point is, of course, the war, and how is he, a teenager (as far as everyone else is concerned), supposed to keep that from happening?

I don't know that if I wrote this I would have jiang cheng be "successful" at preventing things from going the same way, because one of the core things that I love about the past storyline and everything that goes wrong there is the fact that a lot of it is very difficult to resolve via one person's actions.

I think I would want this to be more about jiang cheng figuring out how to forgive himself (and wei wuxian) for being teenagers trapped in a situation bigger than themselves and not seeing another way out. and coming to a kind of peace with that.

[whumpbby]

Hehe, I am thinking that JC got tangled in some shenanigans that keep following Wei Wuxian, and in effect got sent to some other dimension where everything is the same but isn't.

And now WWX has to go and retrieve him - and for that ends up going through quite a few realities in a "Where isy my shidi?" adventure that places him face to face with a variety of Jiang Chengs and his own feelings of shame, guilt, love and anger towards his shidi.

He sees a Jiang Cheng who have lost their core and a one that didn't, ones that reclaimed his sect and one that was enslaved by Wen Zhuliu as some sick standin for his mom. One that saved Yanli and sacrificed his sect and one that never forgave Wei Wuxian (ohz so that's how his actual hate feels) and one that got over WWX's death and forgot (and that's how indifference feels, Wei Wuxian hates it!). There is a reality where JC didn't get a replacement core and Wei Wuxian was the Jiang Sect Leader who kept him under lock and key (and that Jiang Cheng was miserable, but didn't want to run away, as long as his Wei Wuxian loved him still...).

There is one where Jiang Cheng is married to Lan Xichen and they have kids??? (Wei Wuxian hates it! Hates it! Hates it!!! ....just can't explain why... His shidi would never...right? And what does it mean Jiang Cheng gave birth to the kids?? Oh gods, he never wants to have Lan Xichen sit him down for a sex talk ever again>_<!!! The alpha/omega sex sure is something!) That world unsettled him the most. How is it that Jiang Cheng is happily married here? How is it that Lan Xichen chose him to marry??? Doesn't he mind the awful personality and constant anger? His shidi is very pretty and great, and strong, but he is just like his mom and... Lan Xichen almost slaps him in the head in that universe. Which is scary, because Lan Xichen never gets angry to Wei Wuxian's memory. And on account of a joke? Wei Wuxian doesn't get it.

"If you stopped looking at him and trying to see his mother instead of the boy you grew up with." The big alpha tells him. "Then you'd understand."

And uh, yeah, that one kinda....stung a bit. Maybe that reality wasn't that bad - for Jiang chengttonhave someone who cared for him and understood him. For his shidi to have family again, one that loved him as he should be loved even if it didn't include Wei Wuxian. Even if his shidi had to birth babies and take that monstrous Lan pillar...(he hated it, hated it, heated it!!!)

It's still better, however, than the one reality Wei Wuxian stepped into that just... Didn't have Jiang Cheng of its own. One where he died at the hands of Wen Chao, where the Sunshot Campaign never even got off the ground, because their Wei Wuxian burned the Wen to the ground and salted the ashes. There's no Lan Sizhui there, no Wen Ning. Wen Quing died under his hands like all the others. There's no Yunmeng Jiang. Just Wei Wuxian full of rage and the world that lives in fear of him. What a miserable existence.

He left that world as fast as he could, sick to his stomach.

On the quest to reclaim his precious shidi.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I don't know if you already answered this so feel free to ignore.

What is your thoughts on Yu Ziyuan? am I the only one that thinks fandon defence of her saying she is just the typical Asian tiger mom is insulting to Asian mothers? You can be strict and not be abusive and guess what? YZ is not it.

Hell the author themselves made an entire chapter to say that she took things too far too often against a single person to be simple discipline towards a disciple. It was personal and she took great pleasure in it, just bc WY decides to stay despite his treatment doesn't make it any less horrible.

Am i the only one that thinks she only accepted WC orders to whip WY because she always took any chance to do so? That if Wang Lingjao hadn't mentioned she would have to be subservient to someone of lower class she would have gleefully cut off WYs hand and not reacted at all to the Wen invasion?

That in her last moments she made sure to remind WY one last time that he would be nothing but a servant to her, to tie him with a last wish so he would have the moral obligation to give up everything to JC like a proper servant should? I wholly believe part of her sudden tenderness to JC in her last goodbye was to also rub in WY face not only what he never had but what JC was losing just to rub salt in the wound.

Just, in what universe does people see a girlboss misunderstood by the world and its sexism? sometimes i think i read the wrong books or saw a different show... am i really the only one that sees this?

Good evening anon, I've been sitting on this a bit as I was weighing how exactly to answer this coherently. So, for the short answer; I do not like her as a character nor is she supposed to be seen as anything deeper than what she is. A terrible mother and person who let resentment rule her.

The Long Answer: She is not misunderstood, she is very easy to break down. She was a jealous youth who actively agreed to a marriage where the fiancé was already lukewarm to her disposition and continued to cast blame on Cangse Sanren stealing something she never had. Note as well, as she was the one to force a marriage and insisted on this even after Cangse Sanren had married Wei Changze. She is selfish and entitled. This carries over to how she treats her children, she is not happy with her own self, so she hyper focused on the flaws she instilled within Jiang Cheng. Instead of actually supporting him as a mother should, she insults him and instead of love she actively despises and insults her own child. This is not a healthy parental figure. She was hardly there enough obviously to even think of offering care and love in a very negligent household. She laughs instead when Wei Wuxian is brought in she is more concerned about being proven right about adding another child into the household will disrupt their already volatile dislike of each other.

Not once does she praise her children she fixates on despising Wei Wuxian and being annoyed he is able to be talented naturally so much she constantly pits her son against him herself and encourages that resentment to grow in him. She does not care about anything other than her own festering hate, and sure as hell never nurtured her own with love. She is miserable, pathetic and no whatever love she may have held for Jiang Cheng was toxic and all the worse to him as she never uplifted him as an actual loving parent should.

Her treatment of Wei Wuxian is certainly just as vile given he wasn't even her own yet she stayed forever jealous all over her own stories that exasperated her own hate for Cangse Sanren and superimposed that to Wei Wuxian. She has no excuse for her treatment of any of the children under her household. Hate is a sad way to live and end life, and it stops being sympathetic when she lived and died garnering the feelings and reactions she earned with it.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

vines I am staring at your MY canon divergence au and would love to hear more about it!!!

OKAY SO.

This AU exists for two main reasons:

1.) A lot of fix-it fic for JGY seems to focus on him being "saved" from his canon fate via romantic relationship, and that simply doesn't cut it for me. You really want to free him from the destructive weight of his misplaced filial piety in a way that doesn't just handwave it all away? You save his mom. You save his mom and enable them both to know JGS is a lost cause from the get-go and give them the means to forge a different path.

2.) WQ and MY are my faves and I want them to hang out!

As I said, I will almost certainly not write the whole thing out. I did post the inciting portion where MY actually arriving in Qishan and WQ starts treating MS, but as you can see, I did not finish it over the summer as intended, because I am the world's slowest writer. But I think about the ways it could go a lot! It's a little thing--just pushing a canonical event earlier in the timeline and changing the impetus--but it has SUCH impact. Aside from what I mentioned in the tags of that other post:

-MY no longer has any ties to Qinghe. He and NMJ can still clash (since MY is for all intents and purposes a Wen), but it's not personal in quite the same "I lived in your household for a substantial amount of time" sort of way

-WQ has someone she can talk to who's in similar straits! This is all based on CQL canon foremost, and what's striking to me about her is that she never gets to be a kid. Even at Cloud Recesses, while her peers are having a silly goofy time, she's on high alert doing WRH's work. WN's behavior suggests that he knows the vibe is weird, but he doesn't seem to understand exactly how fucked things are, which in turn implies that WQ is deliberately shielding him from it. That's so much stress that she's bottling up! With MY there in the same situation of abetting atrocities to protect beloved family members, at least she has someone to confide in (while their situations are juuuust different enough to conflict).

-MENG SHI REACTS TO: EVERYTHING. Those five sentences of information about her are so interesting. She's clever! She's shrewd! She's also compassionate, I feel, because MY had to get his altruism and his loyalty to those who show him kindness from SOMEWHERE, and he certainly didn't get it from his dad, WRH, or anyone else he grew up with. I have a whole backstory for her that I cannot write because hooo boy the effort required would not be worth the reward, but I want so much to explore how she'd respond to the fucked-up situation of being beholden to the Evil Regime. On the one hand, she knows the Wen clan under WRH are doing horrible things, and I don't think that would sit well with her. On the other hand... MY inherited his survival drive from somewhere, too. What does MS feel she owes to society when that society abused and degraded her?

-MS and WQ would also have some things to talk about on the "making great sacrifices for family" front, I think.

-Less seriously, XY meets MS and probably calls her a slur to be edgy, and she hits him right back but in a way that he finds fun rather than takes personally, and now she's on XY's list of People He'll Murder For On The Slightest Provocation.

-MY and/or MS might know about the core transfer and that sure is a fun piece of information for more people not named Jiang Cheng to possess!

-I think MS gets to date WZL firstly on account of WZL being a total catch who respects smart women going by his ??? with YZY, secondly on account of them both getting a lot of shit from society for their work (though the one who voluntarily disables people for a living is treated more respectfully by far bc this is a horrible garbage world!), and thirdly because MS is going to have to bear witness to Xiyao and Chengqing and she deserves something for herself there.

-I mentioned "what about after the war?" in the tags of that other post, but ahhh the Optimal Outcome here fixes EVERYTHING. JGS offers to legitimize MY. MY kind of wants to tell him to fuck himself, but realizes that his and MS are in a highly unstable position and he needs to go all-out on convincing people He Was A Good Guy All Along. (WQ and WN don't have that luxury with their Wen surname.) He accepts on the condition that prisoners are treated with mercy and MS is also granted security. JGS provides exactly neither of these things, as MS is either shunted off to a prison camp with the Wen remnants or she's isolated within Jinlintai as a means to keep MY compliant. How do we solve this? Unclear! Maybe XY finds out JGS is being a dick to Meng Shi, A Person He Likes, and he impales him about it. Regardless, we have MY and the Jiang sibs (plus Jiang-in-law Zixuan) all conspiring together, and in an ideal scenario, I believe in them.

-There are also a lot of sad messed-up ways this could go, but. I do not want it to this time. At least not for my two faves and MS. Everyone else........ debatable.

Again, I cannot stress enough that this is not ever going to be an actual longfic. I have written one (1) longfic ever and it was three years ago and not even that long. But it has POTENTIAL.

[clara-maybe-ontheroad]

The impact of toxic family dynamics in Till the End of the Moon (长月烬明)

A bit random and I have never done character analysis posts so it might not be as good as some other posts on here but bear with me.

I'm watching Till the End of the Moon (ep 25) and the recent development of Ye Bingchang's character into a full blown villain has made me hate her, but also empathize with her in ways I didn't expect.

To contextualise, Ye Bingchang 叶冰裳 is the second child and first daughter of the Ye family, and she is basically the perfect daughter of a noble Chinese family. She's sweet and kind, beautiful but not attention seeking, smart but not a smart ass, dutiful and filial, delicate and thoughtful. She shares a beautiful love story with Prince Xiao Lin 萧凛, the 6th son of the Emperor, so she's going to marry in the Imperial Family and no doubt bring honor to the Ye Clan. She seems to be doing everything exactly right.

And yet she's a second class citizen in her own family, who openly favours her younger sister Ye Xiwu 叶夕雾.

Now there are two levels to this.

1) They're openly and unabashedly favouring one child over the 3 others, but then still ranking the other kids, and somehow Ye Bingchang ranks lower than her brother who is a lazy and stupid gambler. Her family simply doesn't see her, she's completely forgettable to them, like her existence only matters because sure, she's their blood, but she's a complete afterthought.

2) The daughter they favour over her is Ye Xiwu, and Ye Xiwu is a monster of a golden child. She's completely selfish and narcissistic, she explicitly abuses her husband, she schemes again and again to seduce and try to rape Prince Xiao Lin, her sister's one true love and fiancé, and when this doesn't work she becomes physically violent towards Ye Bingchang as well.

Ye Xiwu is an extremely abusive and horrible person, straight up. And her family continuously makes excuses for her violent behaviour, dotes on her, spoils her, and barely has a look for Ye Bingchang, expecting her to forgive and turn the other cheek. The golden child / black sheep dynamic is at its peak.

I find it quite rare that in this type of situation, a show will have the golden child as our hero ; almost always, if there are complicated family relationships, the main character is the one who's rejected, underestimated, and who has to rise through those challenges (which applies to our main male character Tantai Jin 澹台烬 btw, and I think we could say a lot of the parallels between Tantai Jin and Ye Bingchang).

I can think of other cases where the child who was favoured is the main character over the child who is rejected (Jiang Cheng 江澄 in The Untamed 陈情令, Feng Chang 丰苌 in Who Rules the World 且试天下) but they're not as clear cut as this (Jiang Cheng being his mom's favorite and the only actual son of the family while Wei Wuxian 魏无羡 is also a black sheep on many levels, Feng Chang's more favoured brother Feng Lanxi 丰兰息 being fairly rejected as well and having to fight not to be poisoned).

The golden child as a main character works here because it isn't actually Ye Xiwu : we discover her character and the situation when the spirit of Li Susu 黎苏苏 travels back in time and takes possession of Ye Xiwu's body. Our main character is really Li Susu, and like the audience she's horrified to learn everything Ye Xiwu has been doing, disgusted by her abusive behaviour towards her sister and her husband, and at first disapproves of how much the Ye family favours her over Ye Bingchang. But she also comes to love the Ye family as her own, and the fact that they would neglect one of their daughters so much doesn't impact her affection for them.

We only learn about Ye Xiwu's abuse through flashbacks, so it doesn't have the same emotional impact for us as an audience, and we only brief moments of those memories so we don't have to confront the full magnitude of how horrible she was, including to Ye Bingchang. Again, Ye Xiwu tried to rape her sister's one true love and fiancé, and even after getting married herself she continued to throw herself at him, and when it didn't work she turned to actual physical violence on Ye Bingchang.

And throughout this, the Ye family excuses it all away, and even Ye Bingchang excuses it away. She forgives before Ye Xiwu even apologizes, because she knows that's what's expected of her, and she just tries her best to be a kind soul still defending her sister from people spreading rumors about her. In a way, she's a victim of domestic violence who forgives an abuser and thinks she just needs to be softer, sweeter, weaker, so maybe they don't feel like bullying her anymore.

So when Ye Bingchang tries to use the affection of men to get protection, to feel love and be sheltered from her condition, it's very understandable and to me resembles a lot of things I've seen in real life. And when she turns to resentment over her condition and decides she needs to gain control over her situation through getting some amount of power so she can protect herself, it's an arc we could expect from a main character.

She only becomes a villain after the arc of Bo're Life, in which our four main characters Tantai Jin, Ye Xiwu/Li Susu, Xiao Lin and Ye Bingchang are absorbed into a dragon's dreams of its past as a War God centuries ago. Ye Bingchang is "reincarnated" in this dream as a powerful immortal, a scorned lover but who has the power to actually be vengeful over the woman who steals the man she loves. The object of her ire being Ye Xiwu, reincarnated in a very sweet clam spirit woman, Ye Bingchang gets a taste of what power feels like, of what manipulation feels like, and of what revenge over Ye Xiwu would feel like. And when even in this dream life, Ye Xiwu is preferred over her and she ends up dying, she comes back to herself determined to change and not let others control her life anymore.

Every character (except Xiao Lin really) seems deeply influenced by what they lived in Bo're Life, having identity crises of sorts over who they actually are now. As an aside, it works as a pretty good plot device to suddenly get Tantai Jin a lot more open to Ye Xiwu/Li Susu and move their romance along, it almost feels like cheating but I'll allow it.

Anyway, Ye Bingchang has now slowly become as manipulative and cruel as her counterpart in Bo're Life, and it's easy to just see it as that counterpart taking over her body in a way.

But this manipulative and cruel streak is born out of the profound reality that she can not count on her family to protect her, and that the people who were supposed to love her unconditionally preferred her literal abuser over her.

She did everything right and it was never enough, so now it's time for her to claim her life back.

And again, in another show (like the Story of Yanxi Palace 延禧攻略 for example), this urge to climb to power so no one can hurt you anymore and take revenge on the people who ruined your life along the way, it would make you the hero.

But here, Ye Bingchang still can't win, and she actually turns into a villain.

[soyforramen]

Apologies, my brain has latched onto a new fandom and just. Cannot process until I vomit this out. So buckle up babes, it's a long one. All apologies in advance.

Complete change of timelines where Madam Yu is the one to find Wei Wuxian, or rather her maids do. They're sent out to Yiling for like... cultivation things, night hunt, secret assassinations, or whatever. They find him very soon after his parents die, early enough that he's just barely on the streets for a few months. Jinzhu and Yinzhu hear about the death of a cultivator who trained under Baoshen Sanren and that her child was recently kicked out, such a shame, but who can feed any more mouths the winter after a bad harvest?

So Jinzhu slips out, finds the kid and they abscond back to Lotus Pier. As they show up they're like, wait out here kid, we've got work to do. And as he's waiting, Jiang Yanli comes up with tea for her mother and is like ??? And Wei Ying imprints on her the moment she gives him a few biscuits and tells him she makes him laugh. So when she goes into the room, Wei Ying follows her in and Jinzhu and Yinzhu are like.

Oh. Right. We found this kid and his mom is supposed to be that lady you really didn't like back in the day, what do you want us to do with him? And Madam Yu at first is like,

But then she sees how starry eyed he is over Jiang Yanli and Madame Yu has a light bulb moment of seeing him waiting for Jiang Yanli to tell him what to do and is like. Wait. And looks betwen Jinzhu and Yinzhu and is like. Wait.

She tells them she's going to adopt him and immediately goes and gets that done. When Jiang Fengmian finds out she tells him to go find his own orphan and just shuffles Wei Ying over to stay with Jinzhu and Yinzhu. (It's not like he's stopped her before, and it's not like he can now. Besides, she found him first. Don't you have a sect to run?)

So now Wei Wuxian is going to be raised alongside Jiang Yanli rather than Jiang Cheng. The twins start to train him and raise him, and eventually he tries calling Jinzhu Mom and Yinzhu Auntie in public and they're both like.

Don't call me that. We are not related. But inside they're all.

It doesn't help that he's quick to learn and sweet, and they're quick to praise him and correct him in an age appropriate way even though they're still really strict and seemingly cold to him. (Wei Wuxian had to get it from somewhere is all I'm saying.) But also they make sure he's fed and clothed and has proper training and an education.

It's constantly impressed upon him that Jiang Yanli is his sister and that he needs to protect her and she'll take care of him in return. Madam Yu especially does her best to make sure they bond, because if her daughter is to marry into Jinlintai, she's damn sure going to have more protection than just a coterie of maids and random Jiang disciples. Especially since it's becoming clear to everyone that there's something wrong with Jiang Yanli's overall health, and there's some chronic pain and fatigue that hits her every so often. So if she had someone who knew her best and could take care of her throughout her life...

Since Wei Wuxian is only five and Jiang Yanli is only a few years older than him it will be similar to how the Meishan Yu heirs are raised alongside their own bodyguards. (I have this image that the Meishan Yu Clan is like a snake, in that they move quietly and lurk in the shadows until they strike, which would also explain a lot as to why Madame Yu is called the Purple Spider.)

As he grows up, Wei Wuxian is still an absolute chaos demon, only this time the first time he tries pranking anyone and he's caught, the twins make him do twice the amount of training and subtly imply that the reason he's being punished is not the fact that he's being silly with harmless pranks, but the fact that he got caught at all.

So they train him in the Meishan Yu way, which is far more covert and focused on getting in quick and dealing with things, and in the Jiang swordplay, which is focused on speed and agility. Meaning he's good with a sword, much better than good, but he's not at the same level as he is in MDZS OG. But he's also got an extensive collection of daggers, stilettos, hidden talismans, and fighting dirty and shamelessly.

Jiang Cheng is jealous that Jiang Yanli now has another brother, and that Wei Ying is monopolizing Jiang Yanli, but both his father and his mother are focused on his training and education in becoming a sect leader, and Madam Yu isn't constantly comparing the two since they're not 'competing' against each other like she seemed to think in cannon. Instead when Jiang Cheng gets too frustrated about not figuring something out or is too hard on himself, Madam Yu throws Wei Wuxian at him to train with.

As they get a bit older, Wei Wuxian is like, but is jiejie learning all this? And Jinzhu has to tell him that no, she's got a small core, besides she has you. Wei Wuxian thinks that's stupid, and says so loudly, so he goes to teach her at least the basics so she can defend herself with hidden daggers, terrifying hair pins, and talismans at the very least.

It's at that point that they realize how adapt he is with talismans, so they make the decision to send both him and Jiang Yanli off to Meishan Yu for him to train with their masters. Jiang Yanli meanwhile is sent to her grandparents and aunts to learn more about political manipulation training, management of sects, trade, logistics, etc.

It's at this point that they get the invitation to Gusu, and Madam Yu insists both her kids go. Which also means Wei Wuxian, professional rule breaker, also goes along with them. During the day he's as perfect as Jinzhu and Yinzhu could ever dream, but he immediately breaks curfew the first night because a) Emperor's Smile, and b) jiejie's in pain again, and the medicines they were sent with weren't working right, and jiejie's dorm mate said that these herbs from Caiyi could help...

Anyways, Lan Wangji is totally able to win against Wei Wuxian in strength, and breaks one of his wine jars again, but since Wei Wuxian was always told to make sure to never get caught, at least this time he had a mask on. So technically Lan Wangji can't say for 100% certain who it was who broke curfew. (Discretion, always, might have been tattooed on his forehead by Yinzhu.)

But like. Lan Wangji is like. Bro. My man. Dude.

Thus beginning his utter fascination with Wei Wuxian because of course the Head of Discipline can't let any infraction go, cause denial (whomp whomp).

Wei Wuxian is thrilled to get such a response out of someone so poised and stoic, especially since he's never been able to do that with his mom or aunt or even Madam Yu. Jiang Yanli thinks it's absolutely hilarious, immediately pegging Wei Wuxian's interest as a crush, and when Wei Wuxian dismisses that, she has to be like

Sir. I know you. I helped raise you. This is a crush. So she's super encouraging that they spend time together, and shows her true colors as an instigator when it comes to her didi. But Wei Wuxian pushes back since they won't be there long enough to form any real long term attachments.

(Actual video of Wei Wuxian during this conversation)

Anyways, Gusu Arc is similar to last time, only Wei Wuxian isn't technically a student, but he does sit in on the classes and surpringly draws 0 attention to himself, making Lan Wangji's suspicion of him even more suspicious to Lan Xichen.

This time, Jin Zixuan isn't punched. Jiang Yanli gives him a cold bow and walks away, but that night Wei Wuxian definitely makes sure that Jin Zixuan knows that that wasn't cool, cause like. It's Jiang Yanli, she's the best why wouldn't you think that? Wtf sir, why would you say anything like that? And oops, look how sharp this dagger is, and oops my talisman slipped. Again.

Needless to say, the next day Jin Zixuan has a healthy respect for staying far away from Jiang Yanli or even thinking about her, and if he doesn't even look Wei Wuxian's way? Well, no surprise there.

MianMian is totally Wei Wuxian's BFF now, though, since she's never seen anyone be able to handle Jin Zixuan so well, and that includes his mother. Lan Wangji is, obviously, jealous, Jiang Yanli continues to instigate meetings between them, and the day of the Waterborne Abyss Wei Wuxian is finally like.

Oh. That's what Jiang Yanli meant about Lan Zhan. And Wei Wuxian is just like,

This leads to further shenanigans between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian to the point that even Lan Qiren is like. Lan Wangji, just ignore him. We have three weeks left, it's fine. But Lan Wangji is like, he gave me rabbits? But also broke 82 rules in less than 10 minutes? And also he's annoying? But why is he paying more attention to Luo Qingyang?

Anyways, they finally go home, Cloud Recess is attacked, and the Wens are like. Time for the worst summer camp ever! Jiang Yanli begs Wei Wuxian to go to the Wen Camp with Jiang Cheng to keep an eye on him. Wei Wuxian refuses until Jinzhu steps in and uses her mom voice, telling him in no uncertain terms he's going, and Jiang Yanli will be in Meishan, as far from the Wens as she can be right now.

Turtle Time! All of the disciples are essentially going:

the entire time they're there. The arc goes basically the same, only more Wangxian cuddling, teasing, and Wei Wuxian being a shameless flirt to Lan Wangji's horror.

Jinzhu and Yinzhu travel back with Jiang Cheng to save Lan Wangi and Wei Wuxian, and for the first time Jinzhu and Yinzhu show in public that the familial connection with Wei Wuxian goes both ways. The twins insist Lan Wangji stays until he's healed because they owe him a debt for saving Wei Wuxian, but mostly because they're nosy as shit about him. Wei Wuxian would not stop talking about him in his letters and when he returned, so they're like who is this?

Then they meet him, and are all. Ah. Fellow Introvert. Amazing.

We will still kill you if you do anything to our surrogate child/nephew.

Lan Wangji is like. Fair. But also what are you talking about I totally didn't write him a romantic song or anything.

Things tighten down all over the cultivation world after that, and Wei Wuxian is sent to Meishan Yu where Jiang Yanli is, and they miss out on the Lotus Pier attacks. When they get news of what happened, Jiang Yanli has to keep Wei Wuxian from immediately going back, since they both know that if Lotus Pier burned then their parents died defending it. A few days later, Jiang Cheng shows up, along with a badly hurt Jinzhu. Madame Yu forced Jinzhu to go with him since she knew Jiang Cheng would immediately be like. Nope, gonna go back to Lotus Pier to my death the minute Zidian released him.

Both of them are going through major surivor's guilt, but Jiang Cheng sneaks off to get his parent's bodies at the very least, and Jiang Yanli sends Wei Wuxian to chase him down. When they get there, Wen Ning finds them and shows them where the bodies have been moved to.

(Wei Wuxian sees his aunts body and has a major trauma moment, realizing that he's lost what basically amounted to his second mother, and almost lost his first. He decides he's not going to lose either Jinzhu or Jiang Yanli, and he'll do his best to keep Jiang Cheng around either.)

Basically it's the same progression, only this time Wei Wuxian's loyalty isn't to Jiang Cheng, but to Jiang Yanli, so he drags him back to Meishan. There, Jiang Yanli begs for something to be done to help her brother, but the healers are all at a loss.

Jinzhu, meanwhile, only wants to get revenge even though she's still really weak from the attack. All she wants to do is go on a suicidal mission to take out the Wens and Wei Wuxian is Not Having That. He refuses to let her go alone, and Jiang Yanli refuse to let Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng out of her sight. She knows Wei Wuxian would definitely sacrifice himself for Jinzhu, but he's her brother. They're far close than Jiang Cheng because they spent almost every waking moment together due to the circumstances, and by their own choice.

Jiang Yanli starts openly calling Jinzhu her aunt, putting her on the same level as her mother's sisters, and Wei Wuxian calls her mother in public, even though she fights it at first.

Eventually it becomes obvious that neither Jiang Cheng nor Jinzhu are getting better, so Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian decide to seek out Wen Qing, who had grown close to Jiang Yanli when they were at Gusu, and ask for her help. They come up with a plan where Wen Qing and Wen Ning are 'captured' by the remaining Jiang disciples, and brought back to Meishan.

There, Jiang Yanli finds out about Wen Qing's research into golden cores, and begs Wen Qing to transfer Jiang Yanli's to Jiang Cheng. After all, she's never been able to do anything to it due to her illness, and even as weak as it is it's still enough for him to cultivate.

Jinzhu is still trying to sneak out, and Wen Qing finally sits her down and tells her she still has a family, even though her sister and mistress are gone. The best thing Jinzhu can do now is to watch over Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli and her own child rather than trying to stay in the past. Jinzhu is not happy about this, but Wen Ning speaks up and says that since Jinzhu helped raise them, if Jinzhu left it would be like losing another parent all over again.

This, and Wen Qing's locking down of her core, make Jinzhu calm down and think long term rather than emotionally. Once Jiang Cheng, Jiang Yanli, and Jinzhu are healed enough, Wen Qing and Wen Ning are 'released' and go back to the Wens.

The Sunshot Campaign progresses in much the same way, only Jinzhu and Wei Wuxian work together to gather intelligence, while Jiang Yanli works closer with the sects in strategy and logistics behind the scenes. Jiang Cheng is still an angry butterball at this point, but Wei Wuxian isn't doing demonic cultivation, which creates problems, but they somehow manage to struggle through.

Jiang Yanli works to make sure the Dafan Wen get 'captured' very early in the campaign who have to look at the rest of the sects and be like. Y'all. They hate Wen Ruohan just as much as us. But also.

Free Healthcare.

In a war.

(NMJ is still against it, but he's overruled by literally everyone else.)

When Lan Wangji is away from the camp, Jiang Yanli and Jinzhu are both like, no, no moping Wei Wuxian. And they throw a bunch of paper at him and tell him to go do something useful. He ends up making new talismans that help with the war effort, and some that just make life easier, and hands them out to as many people as he can.

Once the Dafan Wen reach them, Wei Wuxian, once again, latches onto the orphaned A-Yuan. Jinzhu takes one look at them and immediately thinks,

and sets off to try and figure out how to adopt a grandchild. Lan Wangji is just thinking 'Yes. Perfect Husband Material' when he sees Wei Wuxian with A-Yuan.

Jiang Yanli has to be the one with the brain cell, pointing out to Wei Wuxian that he cannot adopt a child during a war. And especially not if he's still single. Seeing how Lan Wangji is looking at Wei Wuxian, Jiang Yanli seeks out Lan Xichen and tells him, this is what we're doing. Don't ask any questions. But your brother is going to marry my brother, so make sure neither of them die. Thanks.

Once they get close enough to Nightless City through the strength and power of Nie Mingjue's mustache and (insert epic war arc here), Jinzhu and Wei Wuxian sneak into Wen Ruohan's palace, and Lan Wangji invites himself along for Reasons.

When they share the logistics they've found out (time tables, the fact that Wen Ruohan is having health issues, the lack of cultivators within the walls of the city) with the rest of the war council, Wen Qing (invited there by Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng, specifically), points out to the rest of them that the medicine's Wen Ruohan takes are healthy in small doses but are also. Hella Poisonous.

And the rest of them are like, ok? Cool? But what does that have to do with us?

And Wen Qing just looks at them. You captured me, babes.

So Wen Qing 'escapes' back to Nightless city and because she looks absolutely awful (again, she knows what herbs and medicines to take to make her look tortured and miserable), and Wen Ruohan sees her and is like, my niece! You have returned to me, even though I no longer have your family to blackmail you! You do like me!

And she's like, yes, of course I do. I also brought the Jiang Sect Leader with me, and you could totally lock him up in the dungeons, or you could just. Let me keep him and experiment on him, that would be awesome?

And Wen Ruohan is like,

(Meanwhile, Jiang Cheng is the one sending information back to the Sunshot Campaign through lights in the window at night.)

Anyways, Wen Qing ends up being Wen Ruohan's doctor, again, while the fighting goes on outside, and rumors start to go around about one or three spies being inside Nightless City. Wen Qing says that they've got to rout the spies out or we'll lose this war.

Meanwhile, Meng Yao is just

Paranoia grows rampant as Jiang Cheng uses Wei Wuxian's talismans to make it seem like the spies' activities are increasing until Wen Ruohan only lets Wang Lingjiao and Wen Chao supervise and bring him his meals. So its a THING when he ends up bedbound with a poison that only Wen Qing can treat him for. And since Wang Lingjiao and Wen Chao were the only two who could have tampered with his food, and Wen Qing is above reproach being the prodigal son doctor (and the spying and the evidence of it was going on before she got there), Wen Chao and Wang Lingjiao are executed.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch Sunshot Campaign:

Jin Zixuan is still being stupid about Jiang Yanli, and he lets the same woman take all the credit for Jiang Yanli's food, and he confronts her when she tells him that no, that's from me. And Jiang Yanli just bursts into angry stress tears - but no one other than her knows that - and Wei Wuxian snaps. Jiang Yanli takes him down before he can get to Jin Zixuan, though, quicker than anyone but Hanguang-Jun has been able to.

(Jinzhu pointed out all his weaknesses to Jiang Yanli long ago, and Jiang Yanli Does Not Hesitate.)

And everyone else is just looking at her like, wtf? Then Jiang Yanli proceeds to dress Lan Zixuan down and his only thought is

Nie Mingjue continues to be a bear of a warrior and wins skirmishes and takes out Wen Xu. At this point Jiang Guangshan is looking at it and being like, ah yes. I help. Here's two more cultivators. And generally continuing to be The Worst.

Jin Zixuan and his contingent of MianMian and other cultivators collectively roll their eyes.

But Nie Mingjue's story is a completely different story with grand, overarcing themes of brotherhood, trauma, war and glory, and family trauma, but that is not what we're on about today folks.

Flash back to Nightless City where Wen Ruohan is losing his shit and Wen Qing keeps on gaslighting him, because she is a chaos demon on the same level as Wei Wuxian when given a chance. Wen Ruohan decides he can only trust like, two people besides Wen Qing, and the rest of his sect is just waiting for him to show any weakness.

Wen Qing very gently tells him that he hasn't been sleeping well, that's why he's so paranoid, and makes him some very strong sleeping droughts. She warns him not to take too much all at once, though, because when taken in large doses it's deadly. Only he doesn't realize that not only does it have a strong depressants in it, it's also full of stimulants that don't let him fall asleep.

After only a few days, Wen Ruohan is hella hallucinating and it gets to the point where his liver just. Fucks off. and he dies brutally. And since he's executed all of his remaining line, Wen Qing is the next in line for sect leader.

Immediately her first decree is that the Wens are surrendering and she throws open the doors to Nightless City and orders the remaining Wen soldiers to stand down. Jiang Chang comes out and is like, can I go home now? And Wen Qing is like,

The Jin are still like, the Wen have to pay we lost sooo much to them, wah wah wah, but this time even Jin Zixuan is like Bro-Dad. Chill.And Jin Guangshan kind of has to since he isn't able to claim Jiggy's killing of Wen Ruohan this time around.

So everyone fucks off to rebuild their sects; Jiang Cheng works on his 'new' core; and Jiang Yanli works to rebuild the sect, forcing Wei Wuxian to do a lot of the work because she's tired, man.

Eventually, Lan Xichen gets tired of Lan Wangji moping about and sends him to Lotus Pier under the guise of intersect relations, along with a letter outlining a marriage proposal because at this point even Lan Qiren just wants to marry Lan Wangji off to put him out of his misery.

Side Story: Wei Wuxian absconds with the rest of the Dafan Wen who have all looked at Nightless City and been like, nah. I'm good. And Wen Qing is like. Same. Especially since

So the Wen are disbanded as a sect officially as a condition of surrenduring (and she didn't want to lead the remaining Wen soldiers, they super suck).

Instead she goes to Nie Mingjue, since the Nie's were the only sect who didn't have majorly damaged land during the war, and Nie Huaisang and her got on famously, and rolls up like, Yo. NMJ. I want to build a medical pavilion, and he's like. No.

And NHS is like. Bro. Please, let me handle this. Wen Qing here's a nice spot just outside our home, and here's some money to train medics and learn about our terrifying cultivation methods, thanks.

Side Story Time!

Wen Qing and Nie Mingjue end up in a hate/fuck relationship, playing a long game of chicken until they end up married. Wen Qing is able to cut back on the resentful energy of the Nie Cultivation methods through a combination of Wen medicine and Lan musical cultivation to extend his life in a 'You can't die yet, I need more funding,' sort of way, and Nie Mingjue agrees to her methods because 'I'm still suspicious of you."

Everyone else is like, please use better silencing talismans Sect Leader we are begging you.

Nie Huaisang is currently commissioning three seperate plays dedicated to Wen Qing Alone.

Back at the plotline: The Phoenix Mountain Hunt still goes on as planned; Wei Wuxian still throws a flower at Lan Wangji; only this time he spends the entire opening ceremony at Jiang Yanli's side, who is there more in an official pseudo-sect leader capacity rather than at Madam Jin's invitation.

Madam Jin is still like, My son's a dick, yes, but marraige maybe?

Wei Wuxian snarks at this underneath his breath, and Jinzhu discreetly stabs him with a hair pin and reminds him to behave. Jiang Yanli tells Madam Jin that the Jiang Sect is willing to honor the marriage if the Jin are since their sects are so close, but only on the condition that Jin Zixuan is the one wanting to enter the marriage. Otherwise, if he is still against it, they should dissolve the marriage since the Jiang's have already taken so much insult from him personally.

Before Madam Jin can protest too much, Jiang Yanli steers the conversation with the other sect leaders around them to matters of trade, adeptly putting to use the more intensive training of a sect she received at Meishan to use.

A few hours into the hunt, Wei Wuxian gets fidgety, and Jinzhu chases him off to check on Jiang Cheng to keep him out of trouble. On the way, he 'finds' Lan Wangji and at some point in their walk, Lan Wangji looks as if he wants to confess something, but they're interrupted by Jin Zixun's appearance, along with Su She and a few other reprobates.

Wei Wuxian manages to be polite enough, and waits until he and Lan Wangji are walking off to slip a few talismans Jin Zixun's way so he can't reasonably be blamed. Su She, ever the sycophant, still blames him, claiming that he saw Wei Wuxian do it. And Lan Wangji is like, I was right right next to Wei Ying and I saw nothing.

Jin Zixuan stumbles upon them, along with Jiang Yanli, presumably on a walk together, with Madam Jin and Jinzhu behind them. Jin Zixun whines about it to his cousin until Lan Wangji pushes him for proof of a talisman. Surely there would have been a paper or ashes or something left to prove that there was ever a talisman to begin with.

(Knowing full well Wei Wuxian has come up with a talisman that leaves no trace.)

When Jin Zixun turns to Jinzhu, thinking that surely one of Madam Yu's maids knows just what Wei Wuxian gets up to, she just turns to face him and stares, letting the numerous scars on her face scare him off of it.

As they return to the pavilion, they all have to watch as Jin Zixuan is awkward and weird around Jiang Yanli, and Wei Wuxian can't help but make faces about it. Jiang Yanli catches him and points out, to his utter embarassment, that he's worse around Lan Wangji, and since she's had to deal with it for the last ten years, he can deal with it for one hour.

That's more than enough to keep him quiet until the banquet that night, though it doesn't help to keep Lan Wangji from looking too smug about it.

[modaozushi-headcanons]

Mo Dao Zu Shi at an Amusement Park

Wei Wuxian:

Would have the time of his life on a roller coaster.

Totally teases anyone scared

He would cheer the whole time through the midst of all the screams

Even if he shouldn't have eaten before getting on one, he'd cheer even if he had to pause to throw up in a trash can... still one hand raised in the air while he does it

Can have fun on any ride, but really likes the fastest, scariest ones

Lan Wangji:

Straight-faced the whole time, but sometimes his eyes widen, or he feels the need to grip the safety bar of the ride a little tighter.

Only someone as close to him or as observant as Lan Xichen or Wei Wuxian would notice the slight change in his demeanor.

He'd enjoy the softer rides, or even the stalls most

Jiang Cheng:

A bit scared but trying not to vomit, so he can't be made fun of

Definitely not cheering the whole time, or at all

Some rides are more fun for him than others

If it's too slow of a ride it almost feels mocking

If it's too fast though, it's also not very fun.. it'll just turn his stomach.

He likes a good middle ground

Jiang Yanli:

Very "oh my" about it, but enjoys the ride and smiles the whole time, just making sure everyone is okay afterward-- not sure she's ever seen Jiang Cheng such a shade- !

She'd bring extra water, money, sun screen, snacks-- anything that anyone could possibly need, as the mom friend.

She's normally very composed, but maybe on one of those drops of terror machines she'd let out a yelp as it dropped and all her hair flew up.

She'd cover her mouth in surprise at herself, and clench her eyes shut during it

She may stumble a bit off of that ride.. everyone will greet her with water.

Jin Ling:

Definitely throwing up after putting on such a big show of wanting to ride the roller coaster

Totally sweating the whole time and screaming his lungs out

Needs a break but is trying to keep up with everyone else

Just doesn't wanna be left out

Some of the stall games are frustrating too

The haunted house is so lame... until he's in Lan Jingyi's arms, and they're both terrified of the chainsaw man

Wen Ning:

Throwing up before and after the ride,,, he didn't really want to do this...

Would enjoy trying different foods at the stalls, at least

Would really enjoy if there are performances and he can sit down and rest while watching them

Rest centers were made for him

Would search through the gift shop for Wen Qing and his friends

Lan Xichen:

Very good at playing it cool on the coaster, though not as well as Lan Wangji

Probably won't be heard screaming at the top of his lungs, but gasps would escape him--

Enjoys watching over the group the most

Peruses the gift shop and makes sure no one feels left out, getting everyone a little trinket of their own

Nie Huaisang:

At least pretending to be scared so someone consoles him

Putting on a big show of crying, maybe even some actual tears

He'd cling to the person next to him on the ride

Actually pretty good at the stall games

He could win one if he really puts his mind to it

When it gets too hot he dislikes it, and he'll fan himself and go rest, watching the entertainers

Wen Qing:

Like Jiang Yanli, she would bring extra everything-- but for Wen Ning, specifically

Of course, if anyone else needs something, she can share...

She's not getting on a roller coaster

Although she's practically unfazed by most rides, she'll still need to rest-- especially if it's hot

She'd enjoy resting with Wen Ning, and making sure he's okay

[bi-turtle-enthusiast]

Hello.... Can I ask your top 5 (or top 3) favorite characters from MDZS? And why you loved them? And your top 5 favorite moments from the series? Thanks if you want to answer....

yeah sure!

Characters:

5. Lan Sizhui/Lan Jingyi I love their dynamic SO much. They're best friends who have clearly known each other for such a long time, and they're both really interesting characters in their own right! Lan Sizhui is so interesting, what with his Lan upbringing and his Wen heritage, and the fact that he's connecting to both by the end of the book. Lan Jingyi is Lan Sizhui's ride-or-die, protecting his best friend at every opportunity while having the best lines in the entire book, and he makes every scene he's in 100x better.

4. Wen Qing Medical malplractice queen!! But in all seriousness, there's something so viscerally powerful about the fact that she's willing to go against nature itself for her baby brother. She'd both die and kill for Wen Ning, and later for Wei Wuxian. I feel like her type of character (murderous older sister) is kind of rare and I really, really like her. I feel like The Untamed really fleshed out her character and I really appreciated her after I watched it. She's equally capable of nurturing and destroying—a force of nature herself.

3. Lan Wangji/Wei Wuxian Fun fact: I hated Lan Wangji when I first read MDZS, and to be honest I'm still so-so on novel Lan Wangji. However, he was easily one of my favorite characters in The Untamed, and watching it made me see him in a whole different light. He doesn't communicate through his words, but through his actions. I think Wang Yibo was perfect casting because he NAILED Lan Wangji's micro-expressions and body language and really brought the character to life. Reading Lan Wangji as autistic also made me understand him a lot more. As for Wei Wuxian, I initially read him as a silly guy and... was right. Despite everything, he stays silly. I do find him a little insufferable pre-death, but I think that was intentional. He probably would have been higher on the list, but while I think he's a really compelling character (and ADHD personified, just like me fr), I'm also very frustrated by him and I don't like how he treats people sometimes. Still, I adore the way he looks after Jin Ling, refuses to let anyone blame Jiang Cheng for anything that happened to him, and takes care of Lan Wangji (towards the end, anyway).

2. Jin Ling Ok he probably would have been at the very top of this list but unfortunately jiang cheng brainrot is real. But CAN WE TALK ABOUT HIM. Over the course of the story, he finds out that his disgraced uncle who insulted him for not having a mom was actually Wei Wuxian reincarnated, then had to contend with the fact that Wei Wuxian was both the reason his parents and grandparents died AND the guy who protected him at every opportunity. Not to mention, he learned that Jin Guangyao, his beloved uncle who gifted him his beloved dog, had orchestrated his parents' death and was ready to kill him too. And what does he do at the end of the novel? He cries. He doesn't seek revenge, he doesn't get angry, he just cries, and he lets go. He chooses not to pursue revenge, because he's seen how the quest for revenge has destroyed everyone around him in one way or another. He's a little shit (because he's an edgy 15 year old) but he's a really intelligent and kind person who loves Jiang Cheng more than anything.

1. Jiang Cheng Some of y'all are going to disagree with me but it must be said. Jiang Cheng is the best MDZS character. Jiang Yanli's love and care taught him how to be loving and caring too. He loved Wei Wuxian, he loved Jin Ling, and he loved his sect. Jiang Cheng never stopped loving Wei Wuxian, even after everything that happened. He hated Wei Wuxian too—that's undeniable—but he also loved him. He kept his belongings intact, he never stopped believing he would come back, he literally gave up his golden core to protect Wei Wuxian. And Jin Ling! He loves Jin Ling so much! Despite having AWFUL parents himself, he was determined not to be that way towards Jin Ling. He did his best to break the generational trauma of his family because he wanted Jin Ling to have it better than he did. When Jin Ling becomes sect leader, he makes sure that he knows that if he EVER needs ANYTHING, he'll provide it to the best of his ability. I could go on for hours about this man. Best MDZS character. He's so full of resentment and hatred and vengeance, but in the end, the thing that always wins out over everything else is his unshakeable love.

Honorable mention: I loved MianMian in the Untamed and wish she got more time to shine in the novel

Favorite moments: 5. Literally anytime Lan Jingyi is in a scene. Every time he opens his mouth it's my favorite scene. He keeps Wei Wuxian humble in a way that only a teenager can. 4. The WangXian scene where Wei Wuxian hides porn in Lan Wangji's book. It starts off so genuinely nice—you can tell Lan Wangji isn't really serious anymore when he tells Wei Wuxian to stfu, and you get the feeling that Wei Wuxian is probably the closest thing Lan Wangji has to a friend. Wei Wuxian draws Lan Wangji a little portrait, and it's genuinely a sweet gesture. Lan Wangji thinks so too—he hasn't ever gotten something like this, and the fact that Wei Wuxian took the time to learn his appearance and commit it to paper makes him feel some type of way. And then, it turns out that everything was just a ruse so Wei Wuxian could prank Lan Wangji. Lan Wangji is,, understandably enraged. It feels cruel that Wei Wuxian would be so insincere just to do that. I kind of hated Wei Wuxian in this scene, but it's one of my favorites because it kind of shows the nature of their initial relationship—half-sincere, but never truly sincere. 3. Xuanwu cave scene. It's so funny and so painful and so sweet. We really see everyone's characters coming out—Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji being selfless protective, Jiang Cheng being capable and responsible, Jin Zixuan being brave and righteous, MianMian being the GOAT, Wang Lingjiao and Wen Chao deserving death, etc. 2. The umbrella scene in the Untamed. It was just so powerful. Lan Wangji putting down his umbrella, which represents the rules and morality of his sect, and just letting the rain mess up his perfect appearance. He doesn't know what's right and wrong anymore, because he loves Wei Wuxian, but everyone is telling him that's wrong. Wei Wuxian himself doesn't know what's right and wrong. Lan Wangji has been thinking in terms of black and white all this time, and for the first time, he finds himself in a gray area. It was just so powerful!! 1. The conversation between Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng after the temple scene at the end. It was just so beautiful. Go read/watch it.

[lansplaining]

Who are the most and least morally ideal characters in mdzs/cql?

I've run the numbers on this and some of the results are pretty shocking. Please don't get mad, it's just science.

This is so obvious it goes without saying, but it's important to state the scientific principles underpinning one's work, so: as we all know, only morally ideal characters deserve love, and the more love a character has, the more morally pure the author is trying to indicate that they are. So:

Jin Guangshan. This isn't the shocking one, obviously. A pillar of the community, a leader, someone who steps up to unify a chaotic post-war jianghu. While you could argue his wife doesn't love him, she is canonically jealous of his indiscretions, and why would she be jealous if she didn't love him? He then has two additional lovers that we know of, Jin Guangyao and Mo Xuanyu's moms, and that's just the minimum count. Untold lovers, untold moral paragon.

Jin Guangyao. Stay with me. I wasn't expecting this result either. But we have to look at the simple facts here. Not only does he have the 3zun triad, he is also married to Qin Su, who likes him for whatever reason, and Mo Xuanyu is in love with him as well, arguably as is Su Minshan. I'm as shocked as you, but we have to trust that MXTX is doing something deliberate here.

Wen Chao. Not only Wang Lingjiao, but a wife who is, as with Mme Jin, jealous-- indicative that he has minimum two women in love with him, and the book hints there have been others.

Jiang Fengmian. Ranks below Wen Chao because while he also has a jealous wife, it's unclear exactly whether he and Cangse Sanren actually hooked up or not-- but there was something there, and MXTX wouldn't drop a hint like that for no reason.

Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen. Like Jin Guangyao, each has two lovers thanks to their position in the 3zun grouping. However, given the state of shifting loyalties and resentments amongst the group, they have to rank below the stable, responsible married men.

Xiao Xingchen. See above, really. Song Lan and Xue Yang both drop off the list because they only have Xiao Xingchen, and that one gets a bit complicated for both of them, perhaps indicating that while they possess moral purity at one point, they lose it due to their actions.

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. Surely, you argue, Wangji's intense love counts as at least two? That's not how math works, Kelly.

Bottom of the barrel, no love and therefore no moral standing whatsoever: Nie Huaisang, Jiang Cheng, Lan Qiren, Wen Ning, Wen Qing.

[Unranked: The Juniors and A-Qing. They're minors, it's illegal for them to experience love.]

[wisedawn13]

#xiantober Day 18: Wen Remnants

Wei Wuxian has had more families in his 20-odd years than most people have in a lifetime.

First, there were his parents. He knows he was loved dearly.

Second, there were the Jiangs. That was far more complicated. They weren't really family.

He was never adopted, he was barely tolerated by some. Sure, he loved Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli. He still does. They are his sect siblings and he adores them. Jiang Yanli has also stated she views him as an actual brother. But it's complicated.

Now, there are the Wens.

The Wen Remnants.

The innocents that are left.

He doesn't belong with them and yet they have fully accepted him as their own. Life is so hard for them and yet they have so much love and warmth for him. He doesn't deserve that. He loves them.

They mean the world to him.

Wen Qing is like an angry older sister to him and it melts his heart whenever she acts like it. He sees the care and love she has for her own brother and family, and he sees that when she talks to him. It hurts. He loves her.

Wen Ning is the sweetest there ever was.

Wei Wuxian wishes with all his heart and soul that he could have saved Wen Ning from what happened to him. He didn't deserve that.

None of them did.

A-Yuan. Sweet little Wen Yuan. Wei Wuxian's heart aches when he thinks about what A-Yuan has seen already at his young age.

The boy is so happy still. He finds joy in the simplest things. Wei Wuxian sees so much of himself in that precious baby boy. He loves A-Yuan like he were his own; fiercely and wholly.

The aunties and uncles are all so kind to him. They welcome him with open arms.

He often tries to keep his distance from most of the Wens, not wishing to make them uncomfortable with his presence. They seek him out and drag him with them as if he were their unruly child.

He loves them all.

He doesn't deserve them.

They deserve better.

And then, there's Popo.

She is the sweetest (and sassiest) old lady Wei Wuxian has ever had the pleasure of knowing. She is unfailingly kind and strong and fierce. Wei Wuxian loves her. Out of everyone, only Wen Qing and Wen Ning truly know what Wei Wuxian has gone through.

Popo sees it in him without him having to say anything. She sees the pain and loss and heartache. She sees the determination. She sees him. It hurts.

It didn't take long.

Wei Wuxian has long been told how happy he is, how he always has a smile on his face.

He tries to keep smiling. It's a lot harder now, but he tries. It's easier when he's around the Wens, especially A-Yuan. But when he's alone, when he thinks no one is looking, the smile slips.

Popo sees that.

She stopped him one day when he was going to the garden.

She looked at him with eyes filled with sadness, kindness, and so much wisdom. She looked at him and told him to walk with her.

So he did.

They walked in silence to the edge of the settlement where she sat.

And she spoke.

She told him he didn't have to hide anymore.

She told him she sees the pain he holds and he doesn't have to hide it, doesn't have to bear it alone.

Wei Wuxian tried to deny it, tried to tell her that it was fine and he didn't want to burden her or any of them. Not after everything.

She just looked at him.

He broke.

He collapsed to his knees with a sob and she pulled him in. His hands gripped her robes as he sobbed into her lap, leaning on her legs while she stroked his hair calmly. He could feel so much love from her, so maternal, and it hurt so much.

He hurt so much.

Wei Wuxian has gone so, so long without the love of a motherly figure in his life. The closest thing he had to that after his mom died was Shijie, but she was always too young. Too young to have to bear that burden.

Popo was different, she had lived it multiple times.

And she took him in easily. She saw him, she knew what he was capable of, and she still took him in and loved him.

She held him as he sobbed.

She sang to him.

She tells him stories.

She makes sure he eats.

She watches over him.

He is loved and it hurts.

----------

Link to thread

[pocketsizedowls]

The following is a possible timeline of Jiang Cheng's romantic (?) endeavors:

He meets Wei Wuxian when he was a toddler. Since Wei Wuxian is a little older and a little taller, Jiang Cheng thinks he's kind of cool, even if he's also a toddler. A few years later Wei Wuxian comes to live at Lotus Pier full-time. They start sharing a room and it takes only about a month for Jiang Cheng to realize that Wei Wuxian, who he now sees as a brother, is a fucking idiot.

Wei Wuxian follows Jiang Cheng to the Cloud Recesses when they are 15 and they meet Nie Huaisang, who is timid but mischievous. Nie Huaisang runs an illegal pornography distribution business without ever getting caught, not even after Wei Wuxian gets booted from Gusu and Lan Qiren grows eyes on the back of his head. It piques Jiang Cheng's interest. Nie Huaisang kisses Jiang Cheng on the last day of school before skipping away to Qinghe.

In The Untamed, Jiang Cheng meets Wen Qing around this time as well. He grew up watching Jiang Yanli pine after the peacock and, after making a list of qualities that he would like for the future Madam Jiang to have, he thinks Wen Qing is a good choice for courtship. She's smart and pretty, just like his jiejie. His mom will probably like her, which is... preferable. Either way, Jiang Cheng courts Wen Qing by bringing her a comb he bought at Caiyi Town, just like Yanli says he should. He leaves the encounter feeling proud of himself.

The romantic (?) side plots of Jiang Cheng's life take a pause for the next 5ish years because he's busy trying not to die. Lotus Pier burns, the Sunshot Campaign goes by, and good news! He succeeds in not dying. Bad news! Every other Jiang didn't. So, he spends the next 10 years after that recovering from not-dying. Understandably, it put a slight damper on his mood and now, he's been blacklisted from every matchmaker in the country! Oh well. He's got his hands full anyways, with a nephew to raise and a sect to rebuild, yada yada yada.

Soon enough, Jiang Cheng forgets all about his youthful naivete and teenage follies. Growing up has a way of hardening your soul and rewiring your memories, so he spends most of his days as Sect Leader Jiang overworking until he feels absolutely nothing. Raising Jin Ling brings some light into his life, of course, but he's a Jin, not a Jiang. He doesn't get to spend all his time at Lotus Pier, no matter how much Jiang Cheng would secretly love that. In a matter of years, chasing down demonic cultivators became his only source of dopamine. It's an incredibly self-indulgent thing. He investigates every smoke trail, every rumor, and every crudely-drawn Yiling Patriarch poster with the intention of destroying Wei Wuxian the moment he comes back. He tells himself he doesn't miss him but finds himself pausing the witch hunt every year on October 31st, Wei Wuxian's birthday.

At the Guanyin Temple, Jiang Cheng, Lan Wangji, and the new-returned Wei Wuxian take down Jin Guangyao with help of a dubiously-intact Nie Mingjue and dubiously-intentioned Nie Huaisang. Jiang Cheng returns to Lotus Pier with his (?) golden core feeling lopsided in his dantian, only to receive a wedding invitation barely a few months later from Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. He wonders for a second if they intend to make amends...? Then he banishes the thought as soon as it comes.

He attends the wedding only to save face for the Jiang Sect because people would surely talk if he doesn't show. He escapes the festivities by the time the banquet starts and walks right into Lan Xichen on his way out of the Cloud Recesses.

"Zewu-jun," he says, "aren't you supposed to be in seclusion?"

Lan Xichen smiles. "Yes."

"Then why are you out here?"

"My brother is getting married," Lan Xichen says, "why shouldn't I be here?"

"If you're truly here for the wedding," sighs Jiang Cheng, "then go inside? Pat your brother on the back? Eat a piece of cake?"

Lan Xichen's smile wobbles, but Jiang Cheng doesn't let up. He's not stupid. Sure, Lan Xichen is in seclusion, which means his time is his own and he can do anything he wants, but Lan Sect would definitely be alarmed to find their sect leader grimly wandering the grounds of the Cloud Recesses on a celebratory night. So.

"Well?" Jiang Cheng asks, pointed.

Lan Xichen's expression darkens. Jiang Cheng thinks anger is a good look on.

"Sect Leader Jiang," Lan Xichen starts, eerily peacefully, "you tell me to go inside, to congratulate my brother, and to eat. But did you do any of those things? It's barely nightfall and you look about ready to leave Gusu. With no Lan disciple walking you to the gates, however, you resemble a student sneaking out of class. Here at the Cloud Recesses, that crime is worthy of 20 lashes. Would you like to explain your behavior?"

Under any other circumstance, Jiang Cheng would lash out against this kind of condescension, but Lan Xichen is swaying under the moonlight like a reed. The sight of the strong, courteous Lan Xichen at his lowest unlocks something inside Jiang Cheng, a rough-around-the-edges feeling associated with flashes of memories that he can no longer fully remember. A shared bedroom. A kiss at school. A comb wrapped in cloth. A bowl of pork rib and lotus soup delivered to the front lines of war. A bloodied hairpin tucked in a purple waist stash. A declaration of love under the watchful gaze of dangerous enemies.

The feeling threatens to knock him over, but this is Jiang Cheng we're talking about. Naturally, he tucks the strange feeling back inside the box where it came from and locks it once again with the key. Meanwhile, he offers to walk Lan Xichen to the banquet. He says to him: I'll stay with you if you want. I'll even eat a piece of cake with you. Lan Xichen declines--thank goodness--so they make their way toward the Hanshi instead.

"What do you want to do now," Jiang Cheng asks when they make it to Lan Xichen's residence. He hovers at the dorm frame like a teenage boy trying his best not to intrude, leaning on one foot and then the other.

Lan Xichen considers Jiang Cheng's words for a moment and says, "I don't know. It's been a while since I had company, so please," He leaves the door wide open, gesturing inside the Hanshi, "come on in. Make yourself at home."

Jiang Cheng takes a ginger step across the threshold.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hello! I just finished the novel and recently got into MDZS tumblr and saw some posts that confused me. Are the Lan Sect so bad that Wei WuXian and Lan WangJi would be happier out of the sects entirely? I thought they seemed pretty happy at the end of the book, but did I miss something? So many people insist they’re sexist and abusive and I don’t get it. Aren’t they descended from a Buddhist priest?

I’m hoping you can help because you seem like a pretty reasonable person, even if you do have a Jiang Cheng fan name.

Thank you anon, I do take pride being his cat mom.

For a lot of this certain flavor of fandom discord, I think it comes down partly to "what I would have preferred as an end for Wangxian" and what MXTX was playing with thematically for them as characters when she wrote what was their happy end. In regards to the Lans, there are multiple instances of Wei Wuxian being enamored by Lans way of life in general and finding it amusing. This amusement seems to grow into genuine interest in what they as a whole represent, regardless of the likes of some such as Lan Qiren's very rigid view on clan principles.

In part, yes the Lan Clan holds fault as much as the other clans. Many of the sect chose propriety over even some of it's own teachings messages. However, the point of Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, is that they have no need to hold further grudge or hate. This is what the Guanyin Temple showdown was addressing. The cycle of grudges is never ending, what use is it to continue that instead of taking hold of their lives and gaining what THEY want and consider their happiness.

Unfortunately in real life, you will still associate with people who aren't going to view you favorably. But so what? It's what you do with that fact that matters. Wei Wuxian does not care what others think aside from those he does hold close. It is tiring to waste time trying to please others because of their own dislike, it also isn't his responsibility to make them comfortable. He most certainly doesn't TRY to or make note of needing to please a single person who hates/dislikes him, and in tandem obviously others follow along with this and ignore Lan Qiren.

A passage to show if it really was important they could up and leave whenever from Wei Wuxian himself,

Wei Wuxian was still talking, “Where are we going next? I haven’t had Emperor’s Smile in a long time. How about we go back to Gusu and mess around for awhile in Caiyi first?

Lan Wangji said, "Sure.”

Wei Wuxian continued on, "It’s been so many years. the waterborn abyss near there should be completely cleaned up, right? If your uncle can bear the sight of me, then hide me along with those jars of wine under your floor, if he can’t, then let’s go find somewhere else. I heard Sizhui and the others are are amusing themselves night hunting with Wen Ning lately.

Lan Wangji consented with a "Mn.”

He is not at all uncomfortable, he enjoys being a nuisance to people that don't like him and very much relishes being a sore spot for those sort of people, especially Lan Qiren who at this point in the work the audience SHOULD realize, is a joke of an authority and no one bothers to listen to seriously any longer.

[twenty-orange-balloons]

I'd love to know more about LZWWTAU, WWXLZLXTT and MYIWWXM 😅

Oooh three! Okay, let's see....

1.

LZWWTAU = Lan Zhàn Wei Wuxian....I actually forgot what the T stands for but I'm pretty sure the AU is just Alternate Universe lol

It's a "different first meeting" fic about Lan Wangji waking up in a cave in the burial mounds after getting injured in a night hunt, to see Wei Wuxian sitting by him. I haven't written past the first scene of them greeting each other after Lan Wangji wakes up but I do know, in this fic, the wen remnants somehow also live with Wei Wuxian.

Snippet:

( “I am Lan Zhan, courtesy name Wangji, from Gusu Lan.”

“Gusu Lan? Ah! The second young master Lan? Lan Wangji? The Hanguang-Jun?”

Lan Wangji inclines his head in agreement.

“Hmm, wow! I got to say I didn’t expect to ever meet you!” He smiled again, “It’s an honor Hanguang-jun!”

“Mmh.”

There was a silence then Wei Ying huffed a laugh, “They weren’t kidding when they said you were quiet.”

Lan Wangji felt the urge to defend himself to show this stranger he just met that he wasn’t as bad as people said he was. He wanted this stranger to like him. But before he could even think of how to do that, Wei Ying lifted up the bowl again.

“Here, it’s soup, I made it myself! And I didn’t add any spices! Though I don’t get why people hate it when I do.” Wei Ying pouted. )

--

2. WWXLZLXTT = Wei Wuxian Lan Zhàn Lan Xichen Time Travel

Just as it states above, it's a fic about the jades and WWX time traveling back to the past. (It's actually a WangXianXi fic because I had just read a really good fic about Wei Wuxian helping Lan Xichen through his seclusion and it made me enjoy the way the pairing can be written lol) I haven't touched it since I wrote the first few paragraphs tbh

Snippet:

( “I don’t want to mess up.”

Lan Zhan carded a hand through his husband’s hair, tugging lightly, “Then breathe. And focus.”

He glanced up at the two Lan’s meeting their soft gazes and breathed in and out, shooting them a weak smile, “Mn.”

He turned back to Lan Xichen, his finger continued brushing blood in an array that Wei Wuxian created himself, He had already done Lan Zhan and himself. The array was small, the size of a token on their hip, if this was done right, it would be marked into their skin forever. A constant reminder of what they had done. )

---

3. MYIWWXM = Madam Yu Is Wei Wuxian's Mom

I've seen so many fics where Jiang Fengmian is secretly Wei Wuxian's father but I haven't really seen it with Madam Yu.

It's an angst fic of course, it starts off with Madam Yu remembering how before she had Jiang Cheng, she was assaulted by someone and got pregnant with Wei Wuxian, she then gave him up to Cangse Sanren and Wei Changzi, unable to look at the child with anything other than shame and anger.

Of course, he ends up back in Lotus Pier, constantly reminding her of the worst night of her life and the way she wasn't able to protect herself despite being a powerful woman.

Wei Wuxian does know she is his mother, having found out via a letter (either he found it while exploring Lotus Pier on accident or his mother left the letter to him).

She makes it firmly known to him, that she will never consider him her son and that he must never let anyone know. He agrees.

She decides to teach him the Yu style of fighting as it technically is his "birthright" but mostly so he would be better prepared to protect her "real" kids.

Snippet:

( Somehow they end up having tea. Wei Wuxian is ten and has been with them for nearly two years already. He sits in front of her with a wary expression, an unfolded piece of paper laid in between them.

She holds herself stiffly and doesn't let any emotion show on her face. She won’t let him see how much this was affecting her. She flicks her wrist, forcing the trembling back, grabbing her tea.

“This does not change anything. You are Cangse SanRen’s son.”

Wei Wuxian nods, though his eyes lowered, voice soft as he says, “I know. It says in the letter you didn’t want-”

She cuts him off firmly, “I do not expect you to understand. Never bring this up again.”

Wei Wuxian looks at her for a long moment then bows in agreement “Of course, Madam Yu.” )

Thank you for the ask! ^^

----

WIP Title Game

[poorlittleyaoyao]

(For a confession). I love Nieyao and Nielan more then Xiyao, and tend to only read Xiyao if it has a 3zun dynamic/more then just the two of them. I like Xiyao but it’s probably my least favorite JGY ship and I feel kinda bad about that

Aw, you're valid, anon! I'm not so into Nielan myself, but I think that's partly a function of my primary canon being CQL, since it sounds like Nielan has a lot more going for them in the novel. (On the flip side, Nieyao sound like got a lot less going for them in the novel, so if the novel was my primary canon I wouldn't like them nearly as much!)

With Xiyao, though... you're not alone, anon. It's not my least favorite, but I'm considerably less into it than most JGY stans, I think. I am VERY invested in it when I'm actively watching the show, but I don't seek out fanworks for it because there's like... this tendency to be like "ah! their love is so pure! if only they had gotten to be together!" and so many fluffy AUs, and I am a gremlin who likes mess. What interests me with Xiyao is how they love each other but can't be authentic with each other--JGY because he needs Er-ge to think he's Good and masks for him bc he doesn't know how to do otherwise, LXC because he's conflict-averse and won't pry deeper because he doesn't want to make JGY uncomfortable. This is a big fandom, so I'm sure someone out there has explored this, but hell if I can find it beneath them being soft soulmates.

(To clarify, no shade against all the fluff. I respect the desire to write Xiyao having a nice time instead of one of them being a fierce corpse trapped in his mom's coffin sans mom and the other one mourning alone and forgotten by the narrative! This is a matter of personal taste, because as I've said, Euripides rotted my brain at a formative age and that's why I live in the Nieyao dumpster blasting an ominous down-tempo cover of Wuthering Heights.)

I would love to know, anon, which JGY ships you like more! He and Jiang Cheng are my Characters Whom I Can See With Almost Everyone.

[whetstonefires]

#wei wuxian was a joy and jiang cheng was a duty #he felt like it was safe for him to take joy in wei wuxian because wei wuxian was not a duty #it was. uh. not safe. and created messed up dynamics. but. #he can let wei wuxian run wild without that wildness being an issue in a future sect leader #he also desperately wants to make up for what this traumatised child of people he loved has been through and make him happy #but. gives little thought to making his own son happy. happiness is secondary to sect leaderness

see, see yeah, i think it was like that, but more complicated too!

because like first of all, I don't think he thought that was the choice he was making, because I don't think he grasped that there was a reason for Jiang Cheng to not be happy? Like. He already had from birth everything Wei Wuxian was being given, and more power and status besides. He was a prince. He was born one of the luckiest people in the world.

'His mom yelling and showing no affection ever' is the only obvious problem in his life, at that age.

Objecting to having to share that good fortune, if that had been what he actually objected to, and which it often looks like is what he's objecting to, especially since Yu Ziyuan keeps giving him conceptual tools to articulate his discontent based around status-conciousness, would be an awful entitled shithead reaction, which Jiang Fengmian is deeply invested in training him out of, because giving power to someone with a Wen Chao, Jin Zixun sort of attitude toward his inferiors would be irresponsible as hell.

Which is in some ways the most responsible childrearing in the whole book! And yet.

(You can see an echo of this in what a spoiled little shit Jin Ling is and how hard Jiang Cheng enables it. I'm fairly sure Jiang Cheng deliberately didn't try to teach him ethics or manners, or to not take advantage of his status, in part because he'd hated being taught those things, and they made him feel bad, and he didn't want to pass on his own inner conflict. Because he in turn doesn't have the self-awareness to partition what about being lectured about noblesse oblige made him so unhappy.)

The only way as far as I can tell that the disparity was being communicated to Jiang Fengmian was in the form of 'you Must respect the status difference here, and withhold things from Wei Wuxian that you give to Jiang Cheng, and hurt Wei Wuxian when Jiang Cheng is hurt by outside forces. Because hierarchy.'

Which is bullshit, and Jiang Fengmian thinks it's bullshit. And in the two scenes of this conflict playing out we actually see, he is clearly objectively in the right, when it comes to the actual explicit content of the dialogue:

First, Yu Ziyuan insists that if the Wen are forcing Jiang Cheng to go to Qishan for indoctrination the Jiang have to likewise force Wei Wuxian to go as well, or it proves Jiang Fengmian doesn't love Jiang Cheng.

And Jiang Fengmian is like, that's stupid, because it is, and offers Wei Wuxian the choice, since it's available in his case, which of course Wei Wuxian takes because of course he wasn't going to let Jiang Cheng go into danger without him. Obviously.

Which is ofc a locus of unfairness in itself, even as it's perfectly fair: Jiang Cheng's higher status carries with it obligations that don't weigh on Wei Wuxian except consensually. He's safer, in almost every social context, and has more power, but that comes with a cost; he doesn't have freedom.

This is almost certainly how Jiang Fengmian understands his own life: the cost of his privilege is getting to make essentially no major life choices for himself, and having no business complaining about that when he's got it so good compared to basically all other people, but ah, he wishes....

There's a stark ideological disagreement about the nature and correct use of institutional power getting fought out here in this family, with everyone losing but especially Jiang Cheng, because he doesn't have access to most of that power yet, but by god is it already weighing on him.

Jiang Fengmian's stated policy, which there's no real evidence he didn't actually follow by and large, is to treat the two boys as much the same as possible.

Which is a good policy! It's got inherent flaws in application because of all the ways it isn't possible, which is to an extent an unavoidable part of all parenting that's exaggerated by the situation they're in, where only one of these kids is Actually His so there's this feeling that by treating them the same he's taking something away from Jiang Cheng, and meanwhile their high status enhances the drama and pressure behind all the relationships.

It's also got major flaws in application resulting from the fact that he's trying to apply this parenting model in partnership with someone who feels he has in fact a moral obligation to play favorites, and is trying very hard to make up the difference, which he in turn reacts to by trying to counterbalance her unfairness, leading to his favoritism becoming steadily more exaggerated.

The very first time Jiang Fengmian comes up in the story, the narration tells us that both Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng know that he wouldn't have come running cross-country if Jiang Cheng had punched someone important.

And how much of that was because he cared more about Wei Wuxian, and how much of it was because he knew damn well Wei Wuxian was more vulnerable, due to not having the protection of a powerful bloodline; that the Lan couldn't be trusted not to let the Jin fuck over a nobody?

We don't know. We don't even know the boys were right, since the alternate scenario never came up. Although they probably were.

But we do know that the motive didn't really matter, compared to the impact of the difference in what he did and would have done--the emotional impact of having been given reason to think that. People have very limited access to one another's perspectives. We can only act on the parts we understand, which are so painfully limited.

That's one of the major themes of the book lmao.

Then, second occasion we see things play out, there's the clusterfuck after Wei Wuxian wakes up at home following the Xuanwu, which I could write a whole post series about stg. But the core bit that's relevant here is that when Jiang Cheng lashes out verbally at Wei Wuxian, the obvious motive is a deeply unbecoming jealousy, and that's what Jiang Fengmian engages with.

When the actual situation is. He is jealous, of course, but resenting Wei Wuxian's heroic feat in a Su She kind of way is just the surface level issue, inconsequential. What Jiang Cheng is upset about is that Wei Wuxian is getting all the attention, specifically from Jiang Fengmian.

And even that is a sort of simplistic bruise over how he just achieved a frankly quite impressive rescue operation, saving Wei Wuxian's life in the nick of time, and his father probably paid him very little attention, when he got home after his grueling cross-country marathon following his first brush with other human beings trying to kill him, because he was focused on getting the rescue mission off the ground.

And then once the rescue was completed Wei Wuxian was in critical condition and had achieved a legendary feat and obviously everyone was going to focus on him, it made perfect sense!

So Jiang Cheng didn't matter. And now Wei Wuxian is being praised for taking a risk Jiang Cheng wouldn't.

Jiang Cheng is incapable of being good enough even though he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

(Except try to be responsibly risk-averse in a scenario where his peers, that is the other two sect heirs, and wwx were having the dumbass stubborn heroic reaction, but once wwx committed them to fighting he didn't hold back. Bit of a no-win scenario; he winds up in these a lot.)

That hurts! It hurts so much more for being true! He wants his father to be reacting unreasonably, not reacting reasonably in a way that simply doesn't include prioritizing him!

And he translates this into accusing Wei Wuxian of doing all this for the sake of getting attention, which is pretty obviously untrue and makes him look bad, and like four sentences later Yu Ziyuan sails in to start saying even more outrageously untrue things, and Jiang Cheng's actual feelings are totally obscured, and wind up being invalidated harder by her approach to 'supporting' him.

Wei Wuxian winds up trying to comfort Jiang Cheng afterward by saying that Jiang Fengmian is only hard on him because of the expectations of Sect Leadership, which is clearly a standard line that Jiang Cheng clings to. Because the alternatives he can think of are all worse:

That his father isn't hard on him, just responding to each of their behavior on its own merits, and Jiang Cheng is actually just worse than Wei Wuxian. That he's being unreasonable and unfilial and childish and has nothing to be upset about. Or that his father isn't as warm with him because he dislikes him, as a person. That his father centers the Sect Leadership in his upbringing not because it's so important it has to take precedence over his feelings, but because his father only values him for his bloodline. Or that his father understands exactly how he feels, and simply doesn't care.

None of these is entirely true, I think; some partly true and others quite false, but all of them are unspeakable, and unspoken (except in some cases by his mother slinging them like arrows), and therefore all are able to coexist as formless fears inside Jiang Cheng, harming him on an ongoing basis.

But Jiang Fengmian clearly does not grasp the situation on that level. And he's not being given a very good opportunity to understand! The arguments he's actually being approached with are so wide of the underlying point that Yu Ziyuan and Jiang Cheng are actively making Jiang Cheng's valid hurt feelings look like selfish bullshit.

And meanwhile, Wei Wuxian was really easy to make happy! And he pays it back to you by giving that happiness back, creating a positive feedback loop where he and his 'uncle' made each other's lives better just by being themselves.

Like, if Jiang Fengmian had tried to be funny with Jiang Cheng by going off and naming his sword for him with a stupid joke about his own inability to decide, it would have dealt him lifelong psychological damage and fucked him up about his own cultivation forever.

Wei Wuxian thought it was a hoot! He loved it! He went around tormenting people with this joke, because he and his shifu had the same sense of humor!

One of these kids is pleasant and effortless to spoil, and only thrives more the more you do it, without showing much sign of it ruining his temperament, and the other one you can never seem to say the right thing to, and takes every good thing in his life for granted, and a good percentage of the time you try to parent him someone comes and yells at you about it.

Like Jiang Fengmian's failures were specific to him, but this was not a situation where anyone without +10 to child psychology was going to manage a win.

Jiang Fengmian isn't even obligated to discipline Wei Wuxian, because Yu Ziyuan punishes him at every opportunity, so Jiang Fengmian gets to be the good guy letting him off excessive punishments. Which is positively reinforcing as fuck, especially when you're the sort of person who does not enjoy asserting power over others, and finds enjoying it morally suspect.

In a lot of ways there wasn't a decision to enjoy Wei Wuxian more, not even because it was safe; he was just...more enjoyable.

I've been in Jiang Cheng's position here--it sucks, but being 'adults' and 'children' doesn't stop both parties from being human beings, and if interacting with you is unpleasant they. Aren't going to enjoy it. They are going to enjoy the optimistic kid with social skills, who is fun to be around.

If they aren't actually denying you anything as a result, it's not any kind of abuse or neglect, it's just. Something that sucks. It's not actually more unfair than the kind of adult who emphasizes obedience and respect for their authority favoring those who play the submissiveness game properly over those who tend to act out, and that's so normal no one even questions it until it gets super ugly.

Like, the absence of an obligation to make of Wei Wuxian anything but 'happy' definitely helped, but there's also context and character, and the fact that his traumas were really obvious and straightforward to understand and address, while Jiang Cheng's were subtle, complex, ongoing, and impossible to comprehend objectively because they were so deeply entangled with Jiang Fengmian's own personal ongoing trauma.

In that sense, Yu Ziyuan was even right: because of the way she thrusts herself into the middle of the relationship even more than she'd be part of it naturally, Jiang Fengmian's love for his son is compromised by it being impossible to separate from the process of coping with an emotionally abusive spouse.

He can't fight Yu Ziyuan about how they're raising Jiang Cheng. For one thing, they're both sort of right, and he recognizes that some of her positions have some basis in reality, or at least in social norms, with which he has an ambivalent relationship. For another, fighting wouldn't help anything, as far as he can see--it's not like arguing is ever going to change her mind. For a third, he can get his way whenever he wants, technically, being the person with actual rightful authority, so putting his foot down with her when it's not necessary is just bullying.

Which I don't think is exactly true, but I'm pretty sure he feels like it's true, and that she thinks so and says it. The latter happens on-page; she preemptively accuses him of denying her her prerogatives in places where it's not a very logical thing to say.

But the way she goes after Wei Wuxian creates scenarios where overruling her is obviously called-for, which I think is also positively reinforcing for her husband in itself; he gets an opportunity to push back where he can feel in the right, instead of like shit.

I have the theory that Jiang Fengmian's father was violently abusive, and cruel to Wei Changze in particular, because his reactions are consistent with the kind of guy who on the one hand is determined not to be like his own father and overcorrecting for it, very common sort of person, but on the other sort of takes for granted that what you mostly do when someone has a go at you is endure.

I also tend to suspect that both Yu Ziyuan and Madam Jin's fathers had concubines, and their family lives were shaped by vicious inheritance politics. It would explain a lot.

Anyway there is a crazy amount of complexity sketched into these characters for how little page time they get and I'm unwell about it.

Meanwhile Jiang Yanli seems to have accepted that she was getting minimal input from either parent at a young age, and assigned herself caretaking labor as a primary way of gaining a sense of control over her environment.

I think the really interesting thing is we never see her offer or expect any support to or from Jiang Fengmian. They don't speak, in the two scenes they get together. He broke her engagement on the basis that someone who hated her would make her unhappy; he looks dolefully at her soup pot, wanting soup, but does not ask for any, and she does not offer.

She helps Jiang Cheng lie about having thrown Wei Wuxian out, so their father won't be upset with him; is that just to protect the boys from the reaction, or does she also try to protect her dad from feeling bad about things, when she can? Did she cut him out of her circle of protection as she grew up, or did she only draw it once Jiang Cheng was born, and leave her dad out from the beginning?

At one point, for about a five year period, their family was just her and her mother and father--and possibly some grandparents; we know the Jiang grandparents were alive when they pushed the marriage but it never comes up how they died, to leave a relatively young guy as Sect Leader before Jiang Cheng was eight.

Usually, that peacemaking impulse in an eldest child of a bad marriage suggests that they spent a while feeling responsible for managing their parents' distress--Jin Zixuan apparently grew up actively mediating between his parents. We don't see Jiang Yanli attempt this, but she might have when she was little.

What did the conflict between Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan look like, before they had an heir to struggle over; before they had Wei Wuxian to fight over? Did Yu Ziyuan used to yell that her husband held her in contempt because she'd only had a useless daughter for him? How do Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli see one another?

Did they talk, when they were alone and didn't have to pay attention to more high-maintenance family members, and if so did that happen often, or hardly at all? Did they ever talk about anything even a little bit important?

So I was thinking about that passage where we hear about how Jiang Fengmian got so excited that Jiang Cheng was willing to be friends with Wei Wuxian that he hugged Wei Wuxian, and this broke 8-year-old Jiang Cheng's heart, because he loved to be held by his father, but his father almost never held him.

(Which led to Jiang Cheng kicking Wei Wuxian out and threatening to sic dogs on him, which made Wei Wuxian panic so badly he went and hid up a tree from these entirely hypothetical dogs, and Jiang Yanli went and found him, and then found Jiang Cheng in a hole and had to carry them both home, and their relationship was sealed by a mutual pact to hide the whole episode from both parents.)

Because the thing is, Jiang Cheng very much had something to be upset about! Wei Wuxian was a treasure and a joy to his father, something recovered beyond all hope, everything he could want in a disciple and the last remainder of the person or people he'd loved best.

And Jiang Cheng was a duty.

That was the entire reason for his existence: he was born out of his parents' obligation to produce a male heir for the Jiang.

Jiang Fengmian takes his duty seriously, but finds in it no joy, and that joylessness informed his relationship with his son at every turn.

And this is the same kind of tragedy as every other in this book. Because it's not that Jiang Cheng's father didn't love him, wasn't visibly fond of him; if there hadn't been this other person here he actually liked, the absence where he struggled to connect with him would have been felt, but it would have been less crushing.

...then, too, if his mother hadn't built that rivalry up the way she did, it would have hurt Jiang Cheng a lot less.

And been less of a thing! It's painfully obvious a lot of the aversion and distance between them is a product of Yu Ziyuan running in and screaming at her husband about how he's the worst and everything is about her at unpredictable intervals.

And of course, it's a lot harder to figure out how to compensate for your own partiality when you're also, simultaneously, trying to compensate for the partiality of another person who keeps insisting the only way to uphold the natural social order is to engage in systematic child abuse. The degree to which you cannot objectively handle a complex emotional situation while someone keeps yelling at you that you should do something morally repugnant or you're Bad cannot be overstated.

I really appreciate Yu Ziyuan as a character, but the heights of her incompetence and active malice as a parent are staggering.

But I was just reflecting on Jiang Fengmian's basic failure to grasp, right out the gate, that his eight year old was parched for affection and that giving more of it to someone else in front of him was going to hurt him. And I was like, haha that's only child behavior right there.

And then I was like. Holy shit. It is only child behavior! Like. Jiang Fengmian was an only child!

Like, duh, but that makes him a serious outlier! Most of the major characters in this story have siblings! It's an outrageously sibling-dynamic-driven book. Yu Ziyuan has at least two elder sisters, and could have any number of brothers or younger sisters--no shit she instinctively interpreted this situation through a lens of sibling rivalry!

Meanwhile that's going right over her husband's head because he's just like, okay going to vicariously live out my childhood fantasy where Changze got all the same advantages as me. 💖😊