#but I feel like Jason was his first kid

[warrior-of-storms]

Okay but do you know what really gets me?

There's no one left in-universe who can or will talk about Jaybin as he really was.

Bruce is the founder of the Jaybin Slander Department;

Alfred is no better.

Dick wasn't around much, didn't know him that well.

If Barbara ever interacted with him in his original run, I haven't found it yet.

I mean, he had some interactions with the Teen Titans, but was he really close with any of them?

I suppose Gordon could, assuming he isn't in on the Jason-bashing. I haven't seen it but I could be missing something.

And, well, Jason... somehow, I don't think anyone's asking Jason what he was like as a kid, nor is he really a reliable source. Autobiographical memory is weird.

No one in-universe will ever really talk about this bright, friendly, eager kid, and it's a tragedy.

He was smart and clever and had so much compassion.

He wanted so badly to help people, and he found joy in his work as Robin.

He had a dramatic flair and he was kind of a nerd and he was really funny on occasion.

He was so deeply, fundamentally good, and the fact that somehow his legacy has been twisted into one of anger and recklessness is honestly a crime.

It makes me so desperately sad that there's not a single character who can even start to undo the lasting damage of a four-decade smear campaign against a kid who did nothing to deserve it.

[littlefankingdom]

After thinking about how Jaybin loved to learn, I realized that Jaybin is the only Robin to have been taught only by Bruce. Bruce taught him everything, from how to swim to how to do a high kick from how to bike to how to hack the government. That's his baby he taught everything to.

Dick was already trained as an acrobat, and he even taught some things to Bruce. When Jason dies, there are this whole "this wouldn't have happened with Dick"/"Jason wasn't ready", and what if this was about Bruce's proficiency as a mentor? If one of the reasons Jason died was an inefficient training, what does it say about Bruce as a mentor?

Of course, we are NOT blaming Bruce or Jason for his death in this house, this is about how Bruce blames himself.

With Tim, Bruce sent him to train with other people, like Lady Shiva who has trained him. He may not be able to teach the kid how to stay alive, but they succeeded doing so with Bruce, so Tim will be fine, right?

And then, there's Stephanie, who is going to die without training (she already has some from her father, but that's not enough). But Batman cannot train her, can he? Because the last kid he trained died. The Birds of Prey are too busy to take care of her training. He tells her he will train her, but he is not good enough, isn't he? She's going to die. Maybe it's better if he pushes her away before he kills her.

[superbat-lmao]

That one WFA panel where all the batkids are sleeping in the living room and Bruce is like, “A house full of bedrooms…” (implied: and this is where they choose to sleep?)

It’s similar to this new generation of parents who were bedroom kids raising living room kids. Like, we have a ton of people who have spent their lives avoiding their parents/family members and common spaces in the house only to raise children that feel so safe in those spaces that their parents are honestly confused. They don’t realize how safe of a person they are for their kids and how that is the point of being in common spaces. Or that their kids could honestly want to be around them and not hiding in their rooms.

Bruce is literally a bedroom kid raising living room kids. He spent time in his room as a kid because the manor felt too big, too empty. It reminded him he was alone. But his kids seek out the common areas because it’s the only place that’s big enough for all of them. Could you imagine trying to fit all the batkids into a single bedroom, even if they’re enormous? People will still end up on the floor. But the sitting room has enough couches, chairs, and floor pillows for everyone.

Bruce thinks there’s something wrong with his kids rooms, that when they come to stay at the manor they barely use them. It takes a while for him to realize that if his kids wanted to be alone or needed space, they wouldn’t drop by the manor. He doesn’t need to keep offering to redecorate their rooms or remodel the family wing of the manor. He just needs to sit on the couch with them and enjoy it.

[rmbunnie]

Okay so post-Seeing Red reread that comes with reading through Green Arrow 2001, I have 2 new things I've noticed and thought were interesting! This is the first, and the second will be here later on:

Ollie is kinda on his empathy A-game in this one? Like he's being a good dad, a good friend/colleague, it's impressive how much he isn't flying off the handle. I feel like all-in-all post-Mia-HIV-diagnosis, or maybe even post-City Walls, I can't pin down the shift exactly, he becomes much more self-aware in regards to his own temper and emotional shortcomings, and he doesn't like try to change that, but he does start avoiding situations that he knows he won't be able to handle with grace, (which feels like a much more natural progression for him and most characters in general than suddenly getting better and healing and no longer being flawed, but that's just my preference,) and he's doing his best with that in this one. All this to say, he:

keeps the conflict with Bruce to a minimum, except for when he's calling out his parenting style and rightfully upset by the possibility that Bruce only showed up in the first place to lure out Jason, and he and Mia were planned collateral. (It's worth noting that once he critiques Bruce's parenting, Bruce's knee-jerk response is to say pretty much "I know you're being mean and irrational because you're upset, but remember when Roy got addicted to heroin?" which, even disregarding the Roy part, he's kinda chalking any questioning of his parenting style up to Ollie just being upset, when like, that's a very valid critique of the situation. And I think context is added to his critique of Bruce's parenting style by acknowledging that a. that this comes after Bruce calling Jason "dirt in the gutter" and GA responding like "whatever you say," and b. Ollie is canonically aware that somehow, Jason ended up buried in rubble in his last fight with Bruce, meaning he has at least a rudimentary understanding of the Joker showdown (although I can't imagine he knows about the whole ultimatum part.) Several times throughout this run, Ollie alludes to Bruce being a difficult parent (mainly to Dick, via gossip from Roy,) but he doesn't know Jaybin well enough to even recognize him in Heaven, so I think it's entirely possible that when he says Bruce was a bad father to Jason, he's referring not only to Bruce's general closed-off and authoritarian approach to parenting, but specifically to recent, post-resurrection treatment of Jason, (maybe including the blowing up?) which would be VERY interesting.

sends Mia away when he wants to talk one-on-one with Bruce about Jason's turn towards evil! I don't know how I didn't notice this one in my first readthrough, but after she accidentally says something rude about Jason's death and the topic of drug dealing comes up, Ollie asks Mia to talk to one of her contacts about the weapons deal that's going on (and makes a point of praising her in front of Bruce for her network of sources and good information-gathering skills,) and then immediately goes in and tries to press Bruce on how hard it must be to see Jason doing the things he's doing (where Bruce doubles-down on having no residual care towards Jason.) This doesn't mean anything in the larger plot of things, but I think it's really sweet that once she gets embarrassed saying something insensitive, Ollie kinda gives her something to do off to the side so the adults can talk about something personal she'd be out of the loop on. I wonder if part of the reasoning behind sending her away is so she wouldn't be psyched out by the failed sidekick talk and the general idea of a sidekick dying, turning evil (relative to this way he was before,) and consequentially being abandoned (at a surface level,) by his hero parent, as opposed to Bruce's cautionary tale approach to the whole Jason debacle. It happens right when Bruce starts claiming that Jason is like, morally lost. The idea that she would see herself in Jason before the gym fight and Ollie could predict that upsetting her feels like a stretch typing it out, but a very interesting one imo. Either way, it's for the best that Mia wasn't around to hear the "another piece of dirt in the gutter" remark, and Ollie seemed to plan for this.

Gives Bruce run of the case, even before Jason comes into play, just in an effort to be cooperative, and because ���he’s visiting." I'm also moderately obsessed with "Try and wear something nice tomorrow!" Like yeah Brucie public appearance, I understand what it actually means, but yelling "wear that dress I like ;)" out into the night is crazyyyy.

Is just so cute with Mia, if there’s one thing Green Arrow 2001 makes Oliver it’s a girldad. That really shines in this storyline. His first reaction to Mia when she escapes/is let out of the gym is “are you hurt? Did he hurt you?” he’s hyping her up, he keeps talking about Bruce’s “wild child” taking “his girl,” he’s actually explaining things about Bruce's m.o. and disposition to her, just being a great father all in all. And not to cornplate, but he makes a little joke about hating pineapple on pizza to some goons and Mia agrees with him pretty close after the Winick issue where she says it’s her favorite to the Teen Titans (another point of contrast with Bruce in the Mia-Jason parallel this storyline centers on: Oliver takes Mia to join the titans specifically so she can have a support system, while Jason was established to interact with them only behind Bruce’s back, under the pretense that he’d be punished for working with them, and dies isolated from his peers) which reads like she’s lying just so she can keep agreeing with her dad?? Mia Dearden cutest of all time! They both eat the pizza anyways...

I'm biased, but I just think it's kinda sweet that he continuously refers to Jason as "kiddo," "this kid," "wild child," etc. Like even mid-fight. idk Ollie acknowledging his actual age just hits, king of actually understanding the parental relationship between a sidekick and the hero who adopts him while Bruce makes a point of referring to both Jason and Mia exclusively as partners, charges, etc. all comic. Like it's ROUGH his direct response to GA calling him a hell of a father is admitting he has failings as a "mentor," both emphasized in quotes and bolded. Jason's wrong in the Mia conversation specifically about their fathers being the same, not because they aren't genuinely disconnected from his and Mia's backgrounds, they are, but because Oliver is a genuinely active parent, unbeknownst to Jason. And it's a leap in logic to think Mia's in the same spot, but with his reference to go off of? It's just a really fucking tough example to work off of, that he's internalized as the standard. But in reality, Ollie's... kinda killing it?

[sprucestairs]

Pollux is literally his dad's only kid still alive, and he's not even the favourite child. His dad likes Will more than him.

He likes his favourite cousins boyfriend more than his son.

Like.

At the end of tsats Will and Nico get a hug and "all of you could drown in the lake for all I care, but I'd prefer if you two died last"

Meanwhile Pollux doesn't even see Dionysus for like... at least an entire week after Castor dies. Probably longer. Like yeah Dionysus WAS at camp after the battle of the labyrinth, but he left after curing Chris of madness and convincing the council of cloven elders to give Grover one last chance. I'm pretty sure the next time Pollux sees his dad after Castor dies is when he comes back to camp post Manhattan. And then a couple months later he's gone again bc Zeus doesn't want the gods interacting with the mortal world.

I know that we get a throwaway line from Apollo about Dionysus staying with the twins and their mum, but we've got no idea how long that lasted, or if he was even like. Decent as a father. (I mean, then again it's more than almost any other demigod got)

we've got ZERO direct interactions between Dionysus and ANY of his kids.

Like yeah something something, probably not allowed to show favouritism to his own kids, but since fucking WHEN has Dionysus taken the rules seriously/ at face value. Ignoring rules is the whole reason he's THERE.

He literally just doesn't give a fuck about Pollux. That's the only explanation I can come up with.

[martyrbat]

batman and superman vs vampires and werewolves #2

[wrydd]

okay. bruce. now i need you to elaborate on that because that kid is full of his shit he'll get it the complete opposite of what you mean. bruce. you communicateless freak ELABORATE

[birdiedoesdc]

hmmmm….selina calling dick birdie and jason kitten

[superbat-lmao]

Jason Todd never gets picked up by social services when Catherine dies. Instead, the alley protects its own.

Jason had spent most of his daytime hours looking after his neighbors kids. He was basically family. They paid him in meals and a shared bed when Willis would kick him out sometimes.

When people hear his Mom died, he couch surfs amongst families with small children that need supervision while their parents are at work. He manages well enough, and he rotates what families he stays with so CPS never catches wind. He’s the alley’s secret amongst working immigrant families.

It also means he knows how to deal with kids.

So when he watches one tumble off a fire escape on the roof opposite where he’s been smoking, he knows he has to check it out. Make sure the kid’s alright.

When he finally gets a good look at him, both his camera and leg are busted.

More convoluted take below the cut!

Tim, who broke his leg actually, is too little to be taking care of himself or get himself home. He needs to be looked after.

He gets the kid to Leslie, lies and says he’s watching him over the weekend and the kids parents will be back Monday, and gets the kid in a cab before figuring out where he lives.

Tim isn’t super aware of what’s going on around him since he was given something for the pain, but he knows there’s someone asking him a lot of questions. When he is more awake, the following morning after waking up on his living room couch, he realizes there’s a kid watching him.

Tim feels like hell and while he appreciates Jason taking him home, he can handle himself.

Jason snorts at him, asks if he’s ever had a broken leg or knows how to use crutches, and what he wants for breakfast.

It takes two days before Tim is willing to admit his parents won’t be home for a few months. They’re lucky school’s out or someone would have noticed Tim’s absence.

Jason becomes Tim’s babysitter, or as much of one as he can be without Tim’s parents finding out. Jason takes care of him the whole time his leg is healing. Tim teaches him to play videogames and Jason reads to him.

When Tim’s finally healed, he wants to go back out at night to chase after Batman. Jason gives him an unimpressed look, but asks if the kid wants to tag along to his babysitting gigs in the alley. He misses some of the little twerps and thinks there’s a few Tim would like.

Tim and Jason become brothers early, going from apartment to apartment looking after other people’s kids. Jason gets someone who follows him around, gives him shit, and is almost as good as wikipedia in a pinch. Tim gets someone who gives a shit about him, a social life full of people who aren’t snotty high society brats, and Jason’s special brand of aggressive caring.

What the two don’t know is that Two Face has been looking for Jason’s dad. No one had been able to rat him out when he was staying with Tim because no one knew where he was.

It takes a while, but when the wrong people figure out where Jason is, it isn’t pretty.

They interrupt him while sitting an overnighter. There’s a loud knock at the door and when Jason checks the peephole, it’s two of his Dad’s old buddies. Jason rounds up the kids, yells “just a minute!”, gives Tim a kitchen knife and tells him to sit tight and lock themselves in one of the bedrooms. Tim doesn’t hear anything after the front door opening and an initial shout. He waits 15 minutes before he’s sure the coast is clear. Then, he rounds the kids up, puts them to bed like Jason does, and heads up to the roof.

He knows Batman’s patrol routes well enough to find him and try to flag him down. Who he actually gets is Robin, who he has to explain to that Two Face took his brother. When Robin finally listens and takes the kid seriously, he radios Batman. Batman, who recognizes the neighbor kid and knows he doesn’t have a brother. By this point Tim is almost in tears of frustration trying to explain that Jason Todd is his brother but Batman also recognizes the missing kid from one of his reports and it’s enough of a corroboration that Tim gets put in the back of the Batmobile while they go to rescue Jason.

He doesn’t get to see any of the fighting and he doesn’t leave the car, but when Robin is half carrying Jason out of the building, Tim leaps out of the car to hug his brother. Jason’s got a few bruised ribs and his face is beat to hell, but it’s all something Leslie can fix.

What Leslie can’t fix is the legal fact that Jason is a missing kid, not Tim’s biological brother. Batman sits with the two, explaining how everything is going to work once they take them to the police.

Three things happen at once:

1. Jason accuses Batman of dropping kids off with traffickers. It’s why he didn’t let CPS pick him up when his Mom died.

2. Robin asks if the two will get to stay together, if they can ask Gordon not to separate them.

3. Tim says they will be doing no such thing, Mr. Wayne.

[arcade-confetti]

They are trying to convince me Jason was always reckless and angry and impulse and tbh that fact is worse than them killing him

[daydreamerdrew]

Winter Soldier (2012) #15

[batfam-is-a-feeling]

So I've seen a lot of Bruce fics noting how his kids aren't kids anymore and are growing up, but I want to offer you another point of view...

The batkids star noticed how they dad is getting old...

Like, everyone usually makes jokes about how Bruce is practically an old man, and all that, but sometimes they're just doing something and suddenly their dad looks so tired.

Tim always jokes about how everyone will leave Bruce with gray hair at an early age, but that week when he stopped to discuss a case, he noticed for the first time how Bruce's hair had many gray strands.

Bruce puts on some reading glasses because you can't spend all night looking at screens in the dark and expect your eyes to work the same. When Jason sees him, he's about to make a comment until his brain clicks. Suddenly, Bruce looks very old, and Jason feels his breath hitch.

Dick just did a risky stunt and Bruce catches him (because obviously he catches him. His dad always catches him) but Dick notices how when he gets up Bruce has to hide how he needs to stretch because of how his bones crunched when he caught him.

It's all these little things. The kids notice, and suddenly Batman isn't just an endlessly distant symbol. Batman transforms into Bruce, their father, who at some point won't be young enough to keep up with them...

(Anyway, sorry. If this is a mess, I can't speak English properly because I'm tired)

[youareinlove]

Travis is over Jason's whole cat thing I think. Especially the part about telling the girls they're poisonous and the government takes them away. It sounds like Kylie is trying to counteract this, but it seems like Travis is not amused by it at all.

not sure it's this serious lol

[brucedefender4eva]

Alfred felt as though it was incredibly inappropriate for a butler to accompany his young master to any sort of gala or gathering so Bruce had to get used to being by himself very quickly at a young age

Due to being left all alone when he would usually be with his parents, Bruce was put in increasingly unsafe situations over and over. Most of the time, there was no safe adult for him to feel comfortable enough telling. And if there was, how would he know they were safe?

He could tell Alfred, but what good would that do? Alfred has told him time and time again that he is his employee, nothing more and nothing less. Alfred cannot help him. Alfred cannot save him

Alfred doesn’t want to

I believe that at a very early age, due to how most of the socialites and rich people are in Gotham, Bruce had to get used to unwanted stares, touches, and advances

And he’s so pretty. He’s been so pretty ever since he was small, even with his parents alive they had to work hard to keep him safe. To keep others away. To draw a hard line in the sand for what is acceptable and what is not. But now they’re gone and he’s trying to keep himself safe. But people always want to touch, take, possess, and destroy pretty things

But all of his children are pretty too.

With all of his kids he makes sure that they’re as safe as can be, unlike how it was with him

The first time that he brings Dick to a gala, he holds the boy the entire time. Dick’s face is mostly tucking into Bruce’s suit jacket, shielding him from the flashes of the paparazzi and unwanted stares. Especially with his ‘exotic’ heritage of being Romani… it’s a recipe for disaster in Gotham

Bruce refuses to let a single person touch Dick, even socialites that he trusts. He knows how quickly someone you trust can turn on you once they realize you’re vulnerable.

He keeps Jason by his side as well. Gotham high society hates anyone who didn’t grow up rich. If he’s not by Jason’s side, he makes sure Dick is. Dick can now fend for himself, but Bruce always makes sure they’re in his line of sight.

Tim has been to these parties before, and considering how negligent his parents were… Bruce makes sure to tell Tim that he would never be mad at him for anything that happened and he is not to blame. That adults should have protected him and saved him. He tells Tim all the things he wished someone had told him when he was younger. They hug and cry about it.

He’s always so thankful that Stephanie never wanted to go to galas as mean as it makes him sound. She never had to be subjected to the cruelties of adults who had no business leering after young girls. Now that she’s older and sometimes pops in if Tim’s going, Bruce knows that they’ll protect each other.

Cass is strong and smart, but she’s also very very new to this life and more vulnerable than the rest of his kids. Bruce wishes he could give her a sense of normalcy. It’s just another thing that’s he failed at.

He knows that if push came to shove, like the rest of his children, she would not hesitate to defend herself. But there should be no shove. She shouldn’t have to. Bruce dances with her all through the night every time she decides to grace a gala with her magnificent presence. It keeps her happy, it keeps her away from harm

His youngest baby is a fire cracker, ready to take on anyone and anything that could possibly be perceived as a threat to him and his family. As much as his other babies joke that he keeps Damian nearby to stop him from stabbing people, he doesn’t want anyone to look at Damian.

Damian is barely older than he was when he returned back to Gotham high society. The only difference is that Damian now has him and all of his siblings. It’s still hard to let go, even if he knows his children are there to keep an eye on everything

Duke is very similar to Jason in more ways than one, epically since he was also born on the ‘poorer’ side of Gotham that most elites loathe unjustly. He’s seen it before, even with high standing black families. Being suddenly accused of stealing a watch or pickpocketing an expensive pearl necklace. Lives ruined simply because of the color of their skin

Nothing like that will ever happen to Duke in his presence. Bruce knows he can’t protect Duke from all the racism in the world, but man if he doesn’t want to try

Bruce has never let his family deal with his issues. He believes he’s simply not worth the trouble. So whenever he gets hit on at galas in ways that make him uncomfortable he just fakes a smile. When he feels unfamiliar hands touching him and grabbing at his body, he fakes more smiles and leans into if there are too many people watching.

Just as he’s about to make an excuse, any kind of excuse to finally get away and take a breather, Dick suddenly pops up in front of him while he feels Jason and Duke slide up behind him, pushing away the elites that had circled him

Bruce makes a soft confused sound, trying to figure out what was happening, but then Damian’s tugging on his sleeve and he already has his baby in his arms. The whirlwind that is Tim and Steph together sweep him away from the confused group of elites.

The group makes their way back over to where Cassandra is smiling expectantly, giggling softly at the confused expression on Bruce’s face.

“Dance with me?” She requested softly, knowing that Bruce would never refuse her. Bruce squeezes Damian to his chest before handing him over to Tim, which Damian surprisingly doesn’t protest

Bruce takes Cassandra’s hand and they dance around the ballroom floor with ease, over and over one of Bruce’s children came and swept him away before anyone else could get the chance

“Don’t worry, we got you Dad.” Dick smiled softly as Bruce spun him around before being passed over to Stephanie and Damian.

“I know.” Bruce chuckled, feeling so safe for the first time in a long time. “I know.”

[rmbunnie]

I like Batman. I like Batman as a character. I like Bruce Wayne. But it is very unserious when people act like Jason Todd, or maybe Damian, the robins as a whole, or any one writer, or any specific story arc, is singlehandedly corrupting Bruce’s character into an severe and inflexible colleague and distant, emotionally-unavailable father. Because even if he hadn't consistently been a questionable, loving yet unhealthy AT BEST father figure in the majority of his appearances since the early 80s (and I do mean to Dick, to Cass (actually shaping her into his image in Batgirl 2000 at the cost of her social development and autonomy ISNT good,) a BAD mentor to Steph, not even getting into Helena, like truly it’s not all about Jason?) The first well-written book that comes to mind where his morality is at its worst imo? That’s Wonder Woman: Hiketeia. No robins, no batfamily, just Bruce putting aside Wonder Woman’s input and the context of the situation and chasing down a girl who killed the men responsible for trafficking, assaulting, and killing her baby sister, to the point where it ends with her jumping off a cliff.

And the thing is I still like reading him in Hiketeia, because he fills the role he needs to fill in that story well, his actions align with his wordview even if it’s taken to the extreme in an uncharitable way, and he keeps my attention. I just think it’s goofy how some of us on here look at the guy who’s big character trait is being a hard-to-know, stubborn, and condescending control freak who puts other people's emotions on the wayside in favor of his mission prolifically, and go “all he did was LOVE TOO MUCH! His mean kids and associates and teammates are PUNISHING HIM for LOVING with his BIG BIG HEART and it’s tainting the narrative!” And you could say “well Hiketeia doesn't count, Greg Rucka is just a hater!” (though I certainly wouldn’t.) But when the issue is Damian entertaining the idea of leaving the family business, and before that it’s Red Hood stepping on toes, and then, wait, before that it’s Green Arrow and Wonder Woman, and then Huntress, and then oh wait we can’t think about the weird patch with Nightwing where their relationship was super rocky, and then Jason but before he died, and of course the Green Lanterns are basically treated like punching bags for him to do something awesome then- Like maybe if it’s a consistent pattern spanning what, 20, 30 years now? The issue isn’t Damian or Red Hood alone, or PKJ or Greg Rucka or Judd Winick or Marv Wolfman + George Perez or even Jim Starlin being a hater, but your blorbo just having extremely well-documented character flaws?

[unluckystarboy]

I have a little headcannon that Bruce has gotten so used to people asking about his kids that he just starts sayin shit and genuinely believes what he's saying

Just like

Random Gala attendee: "So Bruce, tell me about your sons! They seem like wonderful young men."

Bruce: "Oh yes, my sweet sweet boys. Seems like yesterday my beautiful baby boy Jason came into this world. All fourteen pounds and seven ounces of him.'

Random Gala attendee: "But didn't you-"

Bruce: "God, it took five hours to push him out. But it was worth it."

Random Gala attendee: "but...didn't you...I thought you..youre not even..how.."

__

Reporter: "So Bruce! Tell us about your son Tim! Is it true that he dropped out of highschool and is now a shareholder of your company?"

Bruce: "Oh my sweet sweet baby Tim..it feels like it was just yesterday when I held him for the first time..he was so small.."

Reporter: "But..isn't he..weren't you?.."

Bruce: *wipes tear* "My babies are growing up so fast..do you think I'm getting old?"

__

Clark: "So anyways Jon's birthday is tomorrow and I wanted to know if you and the kids wanted to come? He'll be turning twelve so-"

Bruce: "I remember Cassandra's twelfth birthday. They grow up so fast don't you think?"

*Clark who's used to him doing this*: "Yup they sure do bud. So about the party?"

The bat kids think it's soooooooo funny until they witness Bruce looking at pictures reminiscently after patrol

They still kinda think it's funny tho