#but Anakin made choices

[ringwraithmd]

had some convos tonight im a little buzzed but here are my takeaways. these might start some fires.

somehow they person I talked with is both Anakin apologist and Anakin critical. Idk how they have that exist at the same time, but I'd like to say this to him: the Jedi were victims, the Jedi were not evil, no Obi-Wan isn't evil, Obi-Wan didn't repress and abuse Anakin, no Qui-Gon Jinn was not the bestest Jedi who did things differently than any other Jedi and if only he lived he would've saved Anakin Skywalker. Anakin Skywalker did not fall because he was sleep deprived and had one bad day, he fell for a number of reasons, including that he made choices, which choice as a theme is something George Lucas very deliberately has chosen to emphasize repeatedly in Star Wars. Also, Jyn Erso is an actually interesting character and I think she does care about rebelling, the problem is the repressive totalitarian regime she lives in. It's understandable she'd be a little cynical and despondent after 20 years of Empire. TLJ is not the best sequel trilogy movie, Kylo Ren's a little bitch and should've died sooner. Dave Filoni can kiss my ass. "within the context of the prequels it's hard to see the jedi as the good guys --" no. absolutely not. get some reading comprehension you moron. that's the whole point. the whole point is the jedi were the victims of a plot designed to force them into a position where all they had were bad choices. Anakin chose to murder men, women, and children long before he ever became Darth Vader which is a fact so many people seem to gloss over. "they killed his mother -" and?? he didn't just kill her torturers, he killed children, too. your boy committed massacres and genocides in canon. im not talking about legends or any recent books in comics, but solely about the movies. I get still liking him as a character, but to say that Anakin has done nothing wrong is a take that I just can't understand.

folk music is different than country music. im sorry but it is. yes there are similarities. no I can't explain the differences. but country music is not necessarily folk music, or "stomp-clap" music as you called it. tell me you don't listen to country without telling me. arguably the best argument you could've made about the push back of country music pop-ification is the rise in popularity of artists like Zach Bryan, but you didn't, you started talking about fucking Mumford & Sons. my good dude. no. google them. they're literally described as a folk rock band.

edited 6/23 bc I realized I was drunker then i thought and this was semi-incoherent. hopefully that clarifies things.

[maeve-on-mustafar]

TBH, I wish the opinions of “The Jedi were mostly good and a lot of their perceived faults come from fandom misunderstandings” and “Anakin made a lot of mistakes, had terrible judgement, and went onto to commit an untold number of atrocities but was in fact a very competent and respected Jedi in his time and was widely beloved (by the public)” were not incompatible takes in this fandom.

[lectorel]

Yet more vague blogging

"No one can be blamed for how Anakin turned out [except Anakin] - we all have parents who were imperfect and made mistakes but still loved us, Anakin had Shmi and then Obi-Wan, it's not their fault he got attached when he wasn't supposed to -"

Really. You don't think that it has anything to do with the trauma of knowing you can be killed or torn from everything you've ever known at the whim of your owner or even a total stranger, that even when you've been 'saved' you can't do anything to help the people left behind.

Nothing to do with being told that caring about a woman left behind in slavery is bad because it means he's attached to her, and then seeing her die because he tried to do what he was told and didn't go to her when she was in danger. That couldn't have possibly given Anakin reason to fear that if he loves someone, the Jedi will refuse to help them if they're in danger.

Completely separate from the manipulation and gaslighting of Palpatine, the trauma of being sent into a war at 19, the harm done by violently severing a child from his family and culture of origin and giving him no tools to deal with it.

No, Anakin's fall is 100% on him and the choices he made. No one else could possibly have contributed to it. How could I be so stupid as to miss that?

[tarisilmarwen]

Jedi June: Non-attachment/Letting Go

@jedijune

Shhhhhh I'm not late.

[tennessoui]

wine party au!!!!!!!!! god i love those snarky assholes so much! and their three thanksgivings. so perfect. i imagine obi-wan has a wine pairing for each course and anakin has a 5-gallon bucket of sangria from whatever half-drunk bottles of wine he found in the fridge mixed with whatever fruit was on sale.

oh for sure obi-wan takes it all very seriously as if one of the people he invited was going to do a full new york times write-up of his thanksgiving preparations. meanwhile anakin, in his mind, takes the important stuff seriously which is that everyones there and everyones fed and everyone has enough to drink should they want to and as host he has to do the least amount of dishes possible, etc etc

he probably crafts a thanskgiving delicacy cocktail that's just purple and red koolaid mixed together with a shit ton of vodka and with a cranberry garnish. obi-wan has never been so hungover in his life, which suchs cause anakin's thanksgiving comes before obi-wan's, so obi-wan is very hungover and trying to carve a turkey while thinking very meanly about stabbing anakin with this big long knife instead

and also like. just imagine their christmases lmao

[thisisallyourfaultmiguel]

Okay but Anakin is a tragedy through making all the wrong choices and it not working out. Obi wan is tragedy even though he made all the right decisions it didn't work out.

[americankimchi]

wish i knew what to do with this helpless frustration i feel every time i see people vilify the jedi for their way of life when the person doing the vilification doesn't even understand them properly. it's one thing to criticize and dislike them if you have an accurate picture of who they were and what they're trying to do vs. hating them because you straight up don't understand them at all 😭

[inquisitor-apologist]

In this post from yesterday, the OP pointed out that, in regards to whether or not Anakin should kill the Sith Lord, he will always be wrong. No matter what he chooses, to save the Sith or kill him, he’s wrong. And that’s true, and I think it’s really interesting. Why can’t Anakin make the right choice in Revenge of the Sith? Is it just because the narrative won’t let him? I mean yeah, on some level, but George Lucas was always very clear that Anakin’s Fall was about his choices, and painting it as narratively inevitable kind of ruins what GL was trying to say. In a universe where even destiny can be subverted by free will, it feels weird to say ‘because it’s a prequel’.

So why, on a Watsonian level, will Anakin always be wrong?

Because, in each scene, he’s acting out of fear, anger, and attachment. With Dooku, Anakin’s angry. This is the guy that cut his arm off, that humiliated him, that hurt Obi-Wan and kidnapped Palpatine. Anakin hates him, and he makes the kill/spare choice out of that hatred, so he kills him. If Anakin was able to let go of that anger and think rationally, he would realize that Dooku wasn’t a threat and that killing him would be wrong (which he recognizes after he releases his anger) and that Dooku is far more valuable alive. Dooku is the leader of the Separatists, so the Republic could use him to sue for peace. Dooku is a Sith, so the Jedi could interrogate him to find out the identity of the real puppet master. Dooku should live.

With Palpatine, Anakin’s scared. He’s terrified for Padmé’s life, for his unborn child, for his mentor and father figure. Anakin is attached, so he can’t live without these people. He needs his child to live, and his wife, and he needs Palpatine, who he deeply cares for, to live to save them. (From his POV, anyway. We all know Palpatine would’ve killed Padmé anyway.) So when Mace is threatening Palpatine, Anakin wants to save him. But of course Anakin is wrong to save him, because Palpatine, ironically enough, is too dangerous to be left alive. He’s killed millions, if not billions, and will kill billions more in the future. He controls the Senate and Courts, so no legal action can be taken against him, and he’s a powerful Sith minutes away from declaring himself dictator and murdering all the Jedi. If Anakin wasn’t so scared of Palpatine’s death, he could see that the responsible thing to do would be to kill Palpatine, or at least stand by and let Mace do it. Palpatine should die.

But Anakin would always choose wrong, because he’s acting out of attachment, he’s making his decision based on emotions that serve the Dark Side. Anakin doesn’t choose wrong because it’s canon that he becomes Vader and so he must choose wrong, he chooses wrong because he goes against Lucas’s thesis that attachment leads to the Dark Side.

[jebiknights]

LRB has me thinking again about how frustrating it is the way people talk about aotc Anakin, specifically about his politics. Because people ignore how much of Palpatines grooming is already taking hold, even aside from the Tusken Massacre (which is a different narrative pit). The amount of memes about him being the conservative boyfriend and shit like wowjdkd no this is a kid who has been groomed and radicalized out of his own beliefs. Palpatine uses the Senate's known corruption and Anakin's past as a slave against him to convince him that the only way to fix the problems that Anakin sees and experienced is through Palpatine being in charge. This isn't just an oh Anakin is a weirdo with bad beliefs, he's been actively groomed to think this way in preparation for Palpatine becoming emperor. Anakin is a former slave, he is very unlikely to come to the conclusion that having a despot is the way to go on his own, someone had to guide him there. I'm not going to act like he doesn't have those beliefs, but there is a reason he does.

[constellation-skirmishes]

they're arguing over the best paramore albums

anakin: All We Know Is Falling & Brand New Eyes & This Is Why

ahsoka: After Laughter & Riot! & Paramore

ani: of course i'm right you overgrown, hairless tooka-kit

soka: NUH-UH !!

[klm-zoflorr]

What if we were nemesises..... And we were holding hands

[moobrvoobl-moobmoob-oobmpoobroom]

I just find it mind-boggling that some people will reblog things like “Anakin didn’t care about Rex and his men, he wouldn’t listen to Fives just because he was friends with Palpatine” and then in the next post be gushing over Rexwalker/Rexanidala like???? so you agree. Anakin does care about Rex?

[ddejavvu]

Nobody rides meat like qui-gon haters

[thechaoticfanartist]

"Or has it been the light blinding me?" // "I see through the lies of the Jedi."

Tag List (let me know if you want to be added or removed) : @padme--amygdala @soclonely @mrfandomwars @jgvfhl @starlonkedd @shinhatigf @togrutanduin @jedi-valjean @one-real-imonkey @traygaming @aiylasdrawings @keoxus @veiled-in-stars @sentineljedi @spicysucculentz @amelia-song-pond @it-was-rose @saturnsokas @thejediprincessqueenofnaboo @veradragonjedi @arrthurpendragon @shrinkthisviolet @doodlebugs-and-doodleart @thebrainofoctavian

[tennessoui]

I think the therapy questions at the end of the chapters are what really twist the knife for me. Their feelings are so close but their reactions are so differentand they are blind to the other and themselves. Are we going to see Sheari's reaction to the question packet or have her bring up their answers in a session, might be a good way to shake out some rational thought from The Team

the questions at the end are probably like one of my favorite formatting/storytelling decisions i've ever made for a fic ever, so im glad that people are really enjoying them too -- they're a great way to cut through the bullshit of what obi-wan and anakin are saying to each other or those around them (even when they're trying to be honest) and get right down to the very, very, vulnerable truth of the matter that they would never actually say aloud

(from a writing perspective, sure, they could say it out loud - after all, there have been moments of pure honesty between obi-wan and anakin already during fights or during reconciliations, but even that honesty pales in comparison to what the questionnaire says. the answers to the questionnaire are like. unspeakable levels of honesty. you write that shit in a diary levels of honesty. having one of them try to share it in a conversation out loud would, imo, sound clunky and overly dramatic like grandiose declarations that don't fit into natural dialogue......but adding them at the end of each chapter forces the reader into the pov of the counselor for a few paragraphs, reading it for the first time and getting only the absolute, vulnerable truth from the two clients and going damn these guys are sorta insane)

i'm not sure yet what role i want their answers to have in the actual sessions they attend - i don't know how i'd write obi-wan or anakin really actually sitting through and allowing sheari to read their answers out loud in a room that contains the guy they were thinking about. i think it would feel like some sort of betrayal at first. but maybe after they've had many sessions? or maybe if she only read out a bit or asked them to expand on a few points they made?

i'm torn because you're right it would be a good way to cut through their bullshit and show them both that 'hey, this is how he feels about you when he's just alone with his thoughts and being completely honest. how does that make you feel?'

but at the same time would that burn more bridges than it built?

i imagine sheari asked for a second copy from each of them with more detail because she wanted to read through and take notes on 'problem areas' that she could then bring up separately (ie, they have problems in their sex life, let's have a whole session revolving around sexual and romantic intimacy)

but then she probably just highlighted like. every question lol good luck sheari my beloved

[heyclickadee]

On the one hand, Anakin never had a chance. He needed help that the Jedi order, in its prequel iteration, was not equipped to give, and the war made everything worse. His fall is complicated; he made awful, stupid choices well before order 66, but those stupid, awful choices were often encouraged by the people around him and especially by Palpatine, who should not have been allowed to be around little Anakin as much as he was, if at all.

He had a tendency to lash out, yes, but between being a slave and having no control over anything in his life until he was nine, and being told to squash everything unpleasant down afterwards, it’s no wonder he would explode. I actually think the idea of non-attachment is a good one, but non-attachment is difficult, the prequel era order approach to non-attachment had flaws, and they didn’t know how to deal with someone like Anakin, who was introduced to the order older and with some awful life experience, or how to give him the tools to let go. Giving him a padawan with the intention of teaching Anakin how to move on in a healthy way was a good idea on paper; in normal times, Ahsoka would have simply graduated to the next stage of Jedi life and remained a part Anakin’s life, albeit in a different capacity. It might have been healing for Anakin to be part of that. But because of the war, because of how things with Ahsoka actually played out, that sentiment backfired in the worst possible way. It made Anakin cling even more tightly to the people he cared about and distrust the council more than ever.

And this is all besides the effect basically being a walking force nexus surrounded by a hundred metric tons of ambient bad at all times during the war. You know which Anakin line haunts me? “I can still hear the screams,” from the episode where he and Ahsoka are investigating the Jedi temple bombing. Is that what it’s like? Being a Jedi, having access to the force, being a general, and being engulfed in violence and its aftermath all the time? And not having an outlet to deal with it because all the Jedi around you are going through the same thing, so there’s nothing to do but press on? I’m not blaming anyone (besides Palpatine) for Anakin’s actions. He made his own choices, and they were cruel, but damn it if he wasn’t primed to fail. Maybe not as hard as he did, but still.

On the other hand, if Anakin ever appears to Ahsoka as a ghost, if Rex is there, if Rex knows, and if Rex by some chance can see him, I hope the first thing Rex does is pull out his blaster and shoot. Not to hurt Anakin, because he can’t, but to make a point. Anakin was his general and his friend, Anakin was supposed to give a damn, and then Anakin turned around and marched his brothers up the temple steps knowing they had no choice but help him kill everyone inside. Even the children. The elderly. The babies. Because the clones who lived through the temple purge had to live with that, and Rex probably saw what it did to them.