#buddie neg

[cartcop]

For clarification, I was a Buddie shipper for the longest time, but because of recent episodes I’ve kinda abandoned ship.

I think that we (tumblr, reddit, Twitter) see the show differently than the general audience. I think there’s a lot of people who dig into things that don’t actually mean anything and call it in the name of Buddie. I shipped them because narratively it made the most sense, but I 100% think the shirt colors/water/beer theories aren’t complete and utter bullshit. Like, I enjoy reading them, but they aren’t anything. These are writers who 1: can’t remember their own details 2: are very open about any sort of metaphor, like the couch thing. The couch metaphor for a relationship was said on screen, it was real. Everything else is grasping. I’m an actor, I’ve gone through costume fittings before, I’ve seen wardrobe trailers, I’ve had a costumer. In a show that’s this expensive and that’s running this long, they will wear the same stuff a few times. Blue and green look best on screen. They can’t use product placement of real items. There’s a lot of reasons for stuff in the show that doesn’t have to do with Buddie and it makes me, and many others, not take Buddie seriously when people say things like “the lightning strike is the baking soda and it’s standing in the way of the beer which is their relationship” Nope. That’s just set dressing and props doing their job. “They made 3 s’mores because one represents Buck!” No… it represents Shannon, that was in the episode.

I also don’t think Buck and Eddie are a slowburn. Or if they are, and this is something they’ve planned out, they’ve done a terrible job. The point of a slowburn is for the audience to see, to feel, to root for the characters to get together. It has to be really obvious that it’s happening, albeit slowly. That it grows and they are so in love, and there’s feelings, and it’s a big will they won’t they. Buck and Eddie had a foundation for this, but the general audience can still call them brothers or platonic friends. Meaning that it’s not clearly romantic and therefore not a slowburn. It could be, if they wanna have Eddie really hate Natalia and openly reveal feelings for Buck even just to himself and let that drive them into season 7, then yes we would have an actual slowburn. It’s not impossible and it’s not too far gone, but if they keep down the path they’re on where it’s tumblr users grasping, it will be.

I also just think they’re writing the characters in circles and until they break out of that, there’s no hope for anything. I mean anything, romantically or not. Buck is currently a headache, at least Eddie seems to be having some growth, but his is also tied to a relationship and people telling him to date and him thinking he has to… ugh

so I actually mostly agree with you, but I think this might be a case of missing the forest for the trees.

I'm definitely with you that a lot of the fandom theories are...not realistic. I'm actually intimately familiar with how wardrobe and costume design operates on shows like 9-1-1 through my job, and I have never in my life heard of wardrobe operating on a set the way fans theorize they do. Not to say that things like color never mean anything, they can absolutely be used very intentionally (and are, by good designers), but they have very different reasons for making choices than what is popularly discussed here. (baby rant on costume metas->on a show like 9-1-1, the most important factor—beyond making your actors look good—is making their wardrobe choices believably human. It's about psychology and fleshing out character; it's rarely about storytelling. What would this real life person have in their closet? How would they choose to present themself in this setting? I'd also say there are some things the fandom DOES pick up on that I read as intentional, but on a show as big as 911, its a little silly to assume every outfit has a deeper meaning)

I also agree with your general point that people read a little too deep into metaphors and symbolism that aren't there on a textual level. You're right that the creators make it VERY obvious when those things are in play—because 911 wasn't a show that was made to be analyzed. Again, not saying that there's nothing to pick up on; I think it's pretty obvious Eddie's on the journey to find his soulmate, and I think it's pretty obvious Natalia isn't Buck's endgame, because they made it clear in the text. But that doesn't mean that every detail is put in to give hints on what's coming. It's a goofy procedural, it's not high art. I don't know how many people really believe those theories vs. how many people just have fun with them (like me), but I get what you're saying about it seeming really silly to anyone outside the bubble.

But re: missing the forest for the trees, I do think it's a little sad to get bogged down by the theories so much that it takes you out of digesting the actual media. You said that you "shipped them because narratively it made the most sense," and I guess I wonder if you don't think it makes narrative sense anymore, or if the popular theories seem so off the wall that you've written off any subtext that's actually coming from the show. And either is fine, but I remain firmly on the "it makes the most narrative sense" side of the aisle, although for more textual reasons than the goofy theories entertain (and I follow a lot of excellent blogs that do the same)

I think that you're really spot on with the slowburn aspect—s2-6a buddie was a developing close friendship, and a beautifully done one in my opinion. But it didn't read to me as romantic while watching casually, it read to me as a really significant platonic partnership. And I so agree that it's a really phenomenal foundation for an actual slowburn. After watching the episode last night, I think that might be the direction they're headed, and I don't think I'd feel that way if not for the couch of it all. But I've said it a few times on here, I don't see any way that this is the final act of their slowburn, because I don't feel there's been any burn yet. The fact that I'm starting to think there might be a reveal to the GA, a real will they/won't they, is what has me so firmly on the buddie canon train right now.

And yeah, Buck going in circles is how I'd put it, too. But as I said it to another anon, I get the feeling that this is the last circle for Buck before his series-long journey for happiness and self worth ends. I actually love the aspect of solving one problem with his perspective only to unearth another, deeper problem, but I can only watch that large man be sad in the exact same way so many times. As for Eddie's dating adventures, I'm feeling like they're making it clear that even though Pepa was the one to push him into it, he is actually interested in finding a partner for the right reasons.

Anyways, seems like we mostly agree and I'm either more optimistic or more delusional than you—only time will tell! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me

drop your thoughts/theories/speculation on why you don't think buddie will go canon in my ask box because I'm curious (I'll be nice I promise)

I'm tagging all these posts with #anti-buddie and #buddie-neg if you want to filter

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

No time for fashion, we have a stat bonus to collect.

[chronicowboy]

can't wait for eddie to come clean to buck about everything in the diaz kitchen in the dead of night and it's a tough conversation, a little ugly, and the lights are low and eddie can barely look at buck and buck can't look away because how did he miss this. he's always so wrapped up in a relationship when eddie needs him the most and he always ends up missing eddie's declines until he's already at rock bottom. but this isn't about him. this is about eddie. and eddie's tearing up and he's chasing his dead wife who he can't ever get back and he's drowning in guilt and he doesn't know what to do and buck doesn't know what to do either. but he remembers the knot in his stomach and the way it didn't untangle itself until eddie hugged him. so he moves round the island and wraps eddie in his arms and eddie breaks and buck holds him through it all.

[starstruckbyacomet]

The Underdog

They thought he was a himbo. A pretty face on a great body, with decent acting skills. Good enough to be the love interest of the main character for several episodes.

GIF by tommykinard6

It was a surprise when he rejected a full make out session. He opted for a gentle first kiss instead. It should be their first clue.

GIF by mymycorrhizae

He added a thoughtful detail to the scene. People noticed and loved it. The kiss went viral.

GIF by beets

At first, it was his good look which caught our eyes...

GIF by weewoo911

Soon enough, his nuanced acting and thoughtful subtleties kept our attention.

GIFs by bilosan & xofemeraldstars

Within the limited dialogues and screen time he was given, he told the story through his soulful eyes and his micro expressions. We got the messages and we adored him.

GIFs by cull3nblaze, seaside-storm, louferrignojrofficial, mmso-notlikethat, louisferrignojr, mymycorrhizae, & peppermintquartz

But they never wanted him to stay long. His time was measured. He had to say goodbye and walked away. And he took our hearts with him.

GIFS by mmso-notlikethat

So, when he turned his back on the door, we also turned our backs on the show.

GIF by mmso-notlikethat

[bizarrescribblez]

anyways here’s a reminder that i love my non-sharing self shippers so much!! don’t let anybody tell you that you’re irrational or unreasonable or dramatic for being uncomfortable sharing your f/o!! your f/o loves you so so much and wouldn’t want it any other way!! 💕

[firefamily]

tbh at this point even if buddie doesn't happen I would still rather have spent my time getting excited about the possibility than dooming just to prevent being sad if it doesn't. I get people wanna protect themselves from disappointment but what's the point when the cost is making your current fandom experience miserable? Choose joy!

[bestagons]

[checks wrist for year]

[swordscleric]

I can't stop thinking about the post from a few days ago about how Critical Role has been great at doing personal faith but didn't put the necessary work in to discuss the religious/god angle of c3 in-depth. Like the fact that Cardinal Respa was linked to both the Dawnfather and the Chained Oblivion is, on a personal level, very interesting (fallen/corrupted priest goes hard) but like does that mean that there's a Papacy somewhere in Exandria dedicated to the Dawnfather? If so, are there more cardinals who ordain the bishops of the Dawnfather? Are there Conclave-level intrigues going on in the Dawnfather's Sistine Chapel? Why is the Dawnfather so Christianity-coded in vibes alone if there's no actual outline of his religious organisations? With Downfall the Dawnchild/Dawnfather thing makes the allusions to Christ as Son of God co-existing with the Father textual - was there a Dawnfather Schism around whether the Dawnchild was a separate mortal? Was there a Reformation about how the Dawnfather's Pope kept selling indulgences? Is that why the priest of the Dawnfather Grog & Pike offer a drink to doesn't partake because of a cultural shift between Protestant-Temperance-League-coded and Catholic-coded Dawnfather congregations? Why do I have so many questions about the religious organisation of one of the most important Prime Deities in Exandria and to Critical Role's 3 campaigns? How on earth were the cast (and us as the viewers!) meant to care about the gods if all they had were "really tall kings" instead of interrogating how religious organisations provide both a place of healing and community to a wide range of people and also a place of horrific harm and abuse for a wide range of people?

[glorious-spoon]

i don't really have coherent meta thoughts here, but there's something really tasty about the potential conflict between evan 'the only way i can tell people love me is when they yell at me for my dumb choices' buckley and eddie 'i will keep my mouth shut if it kills me' diaz

[cartcop]

I am actually so desperate to hear what people think is gonna happen if not buddie canon. like I'm INVITING the negativity into my ask box. please tell me what you think is coming I promise I won't be mean to you about what you think

[merthurians-prat-and-idiot]

No but its literally so in character for Buck to be jealous about Eddie & Tommy being friends! Buck's insecurities/abandonment issues come up when new people step in & leave him feeling like he's being replaced/left behind. We saw it when Eddie was first introduced- because he saw this new guy who was seemingly better at everything- his fear of losing his place on the team/his new family made him react. Same with the Lone Star crossover- it takes him time to feel comfortable around new people when he doesn't know where they stand in shifting the firefam dynamics. It's very Buck & it'll be cool to see that brought up & talked about!

[somecunttookmyurl]

someone (blocked immediately for total lack of reading comprehension) in my notes proclaiming they make jewellery with "real gemstones" in that they can't even get people to "pay the cost of the stones" on because that would be $200-300 and i have never read a bigger load of bullshit in my life

ma'am if your supplier is charging you two hundred fucking dollars for enough gemstones to make one piece of jewellery you are a victim of the biggest scam since ea nasir. you can go and buy fully made fine jewellery for less than that and deconstruct it.

[boydykedevo]

CRAZIEST YEAR THEME EVER WHAT THE FUCK

[starstruckbyacomet]

Why Are We Losing Buck's Loft NOW?

There's a speculation that Ryan Guzman's contract is under re-negotiation. Thus, his future in 9-1-1 OG is uncertain.

If that's so, why didn't they lease Eddie's house to a stranger? Thus, if Ryan stayed, Eddie could be back to his own house.

Letting Buck's loft go seems permanent, like burning Bathena's house down.

There are several possibilities floating around:

1)) It has been decided that Ryan is leaving the OG show.

Either he will join the Nashville spin-off or will cut ties off with 9-1-1 entirely.

If that's so, why didn't they wait until the end of the season to let Buck's loft go? They could sublet Eddie's house to a stranger until the end of the season before making Buck move into it. Why NOW? Letting the loft go NOW only fuels speculations about Eddie leaving permanently. This could upset Eddie's fans. Logically, the show wants to avoid that.

2)) As a leverage against Ryan in the contract re-negotiation.

Some people think it's a bluff from ABC in the contract negotiation. People in ABC are giving Ryan a signal that he would be let go if he didn't agree with their term.

I doubt it. That move is more likely to have the opposite effect. Since they HAVE let Buck's loft go, Eddie would be Buck's roommate if he returned to LA. It will perpetuate the Buddie stans' delusion that Eddie is gay. Ryan's work to portray a heterosexual man with a bisexual best friend would be undermined. Ryan's insistence that Eddie and himself are both straight (which he has said again and again in multiple interviews, lol) would be futile. If anything, the prospect of Eddie as Buck's roommate would push Ryan further from renewing his contract.

There's another thing that might dampen Ryan's willingness to stay: Tim Minear's apparent insistence to bait the Buddie fans. In ep. 8x05, Eddie's "I am stright" statement is countered with a talk about beard within the same conversation. In ep. 8x09, Buck said, "I didn’t mean to OUT YOU in front of Cap and everyone else." That sentence could be easily replaced with "I didn’t mean to tell everyone that you're leaving," which feels more natural to be said. Regardless what Tim has said in interviews, the baiting game is on, lmfao.

3)) To make Buddie canon.

If you put a pair of Buddie goggles on, you can see how it works: Eddie returns to LA with Christopher -> become Buck's roommate -> feelings realization -> Buddie canon.

Now, put the goggles off and consider these:

Buck's only male partner who has been proven to be liked by A BIG PART of the General Audience is Tommy. If they didn't reunite Bucktommy, it's most probably because they assume that the MAJORITY of GA doesn't like to see Buck with a man. If they chickened out from reuniting Bucktommy, despite the support from a part of the GA, how on earth they would have the gut to make Buddie, whom GA knows nothing about, canon?

There is almost no benefit for ABC to make Buddie canon. GA doesn't know about Buddie. Even if Buddie never canon, Buddie fans keep watching the show and Buddie writers keep bringing Buddie up in every article for clicks and engagements. Making Buddie canon might increase the exposure to the show for a while. However, if ABC and Tim Minear assumed that most of the GA didn't like to see Buck with a boyfriend (and they had broken Bucktommy up because of it), I don't think they would take the risk of losing their existing audience for online engagements.

Here's another prove that the GA doesn't care about Buddie. Ep. 8x09 "Sob Stories" is about Eddie leaving, possibly permanently (he put a down payment on a house in Texas!). Have you seen GA complained about Eddie's leaving the way they did when Tommy's leaving? No? That's how you know that Eddie is NOT a big draw for GA (no offense to Ryan Guzman). I'm sure people in ABC also notice that.

EDIT: Someone mentioned that GA might complain if Ryan did 'exit' interviews, like Lou did before. I don't think so. GA didn't read Lou's exit interview. While writing this edit, the Fangirlish interview only has 7 comments, while the Decider interview has an invitation to "Be the first to comment", lol. If GA read those exit interviews, there would be a lot of complaints on the articles, similar like the ones on the ABC's IG and FB accounts. ABC has known those interviewers are biased towards Buddie. Those interviews are directed to fans, not to GA.

4)) Budget constraint.

ABC knows that there will be a significant cost increase in the near future:

Season 8 is the time for Jennifer Love-Hewitt and Ryan Guzman's contracts renewal.

JLH's involvement in the second sequeal of I Know What You Did Last Summer proves that people in the industry still consider her as a big draw for audience worldwide. She could demand a significant raise based on it.

Ep. 8x09 has the highest rating of the season so far (5.3). It's even higher than the airplane disaster (5.1). Why? Because the Scream Queen was screaming, and the GA wanted to see that. JLH might add this fact to her ammo in her contract negotiation.

A significant raise for JLH could mean budget cut in other areas:

a) Ryan might not get a raise with the amount he expected.

This has happened in Grey's Anatomy. Renewing Ellen Pompeo's contract for $20 million a year allegedly has prompted Jessica Chapshaw and Sarah Drew to leave the show, because they didn't get their expected raise. It also happened in Inside Out 2. Amy Pohler's $5 million pay took a big portion of the budget. Thus, Pixar decided to cheap out the other cast members, prompting Bill Hader and Mindy Kalling's refusal to return.

b) They have to scale down the production.

There have been rumors that budget cut is the reason behind the reduced appearance of recurring characters in this season. There's also the fact that Bathena's house has been burnt down. So far, there is no sign of their new house, but I guess it would be a scale down. It's also probably why they decided to let Buck's loft go.

5)) To push Buck to live with Tommy if Eddie returns.

This is mostly a joke among Bucktommy nations. However, let's think about it seriously to cover all the bases. Is it possible? Very unlikely. Tommy has a car lift and a Muay Thai ring. That kind of place is not cheap. There's a reason why we never saw Tommy's house during Season 7. Assuming Buck and Tommy get back together, if the show had to let Bathena's house go for budget reason, I doubt Buck would move to Tommy's house anytime soon.

6)) To bait the Buddie fans

Although they don't have the gut to give Buck a permanent boyfriend, they could still drive online engagements by making Buck and Eddie roommates. Will they do that? We'll know when we see Bathena's new house. If it is an expensive house, then we know that budget is not an issue. Thus, there's no reason for the roommate situation other than Buddiebaiting. For the sake of non-toxic Buddie fans who still believe Buddie will be canon, I sincerely hope they won't go there. It'll be too cruel.

EDIT: Someone pointed out to me that Tim might have planned to bait Buddie fans with Buck's moving into Eddie's house, based on his interview with Decider:

DECIDER: Did it cross your mind when you were writing that twist that Buck also lived in Abby’s (Connie Britton) apartment when she left in Season 1?  TM: Yes! It did, and I had even made reference to it later, but that ended up falling out. I think it just got a little confusing for the network. But there was a reference to that fact. For Buck, it’s different, because he’s not Eddie’s lover, for one thing. He was pining for Abby when she left. But he didn’t think he was living in her place. He thought he was waiting for her to come back.

Apparently, Tim wanted to put a Buddie bait with Buck's moving, but ABC stopped him, lol. That's interesting. I thought ABC didn't mind with baiting because they allowed Tim did it with Bucktommy: hyping Bucktommy up then breaking them apart 🤔.

From all the above, I think Buddiebaiting budget constraint is the most possible reason why we are losing Buck's loft NOW, instead of at the end of this season. If the decision is permanent, regardless Eddie would return or not, having Buck move to Eddie's house NOW while Eddie is still in LA is more practical than having Buck fly to Texas to sign a sublease contract. If Eddie returns, he has to share his house with Buck. It might be good to drive online engagements anyway, regardless what Ryan feels about it.

[keepingmyoptionsfluid]

I'm begging y'all to be sane. I get that it's exciting a show has got to 100 episodes and the show should celebrate that but also I need to be very clear (as someone who works in TV and has done for a fair amount of time), sometimes a big "milestone" episode are just a regular episode from a story perspective. Stop building it up to be something it probably won't be because the vitriol and ire that some of you have shown to the cast is frankly repugnant and you should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.

[wimbledon2008]

it's a shame that tree #3 ruined "evan" because i do think the double e's of "evan and eddie" is really cute. unfortunately "evan" now sounds like a slur