#bruce doesn't use his powers for batman because of course he wouldn't

[arandomao3user]

As an Ao3 author, I love giving headcanons that'd probably anger a certain side of the Batman fandom, but I personally don't care because it makes great angst and, again, I'm an Ao3 author and chronically ill!

First up! Dick Grayson, I like the idea of him having ADHD, of course, BUT... joint hypermobility syndrome.

(Joint Hypermobility Syndrome: Joint hypermobility syndrome is a connective tissue disorder. Thick bands of tissue (ligaments) hold your joints together and keep them from moving too much or too far out of range. In people with joint hypermobility syndrome, those ligaments are loose or weak. If you have joints that are more flexible than normal and it causes you pain, you may have joint hypermobility syndrome.)

Chronic pain fits him, don't ask, because as the eldest child with chronic pain and hypermobiltiy syndrome, trust, he has that look in his eye that he's been walking on swollen knees for the past twelve hours, had three mental breakdowns, and is still pushing through because SOMEBODY has to deal with this bull.

That's also the reason he wears freakin' spandex-- only, it's for compression! He wears compression items to help with swelling and pain TRUST, and let me have this because the math maths (it probably doesn't, but let me have this.)

He's got chronic fatigue, he's gotten used to popping dislocated joints back into place, Bruce was so confused how he dislocated and sprained so many bones so quickly when out as Robin. It's genetic, of course, Bruce finds. But he has money, and Dick powers through it all! Till he develops arthritis in his early thirties/ late twenties and actually hates everything because WHAT AND WHY--

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Next up! JASON TODD! I have no proof, evidence, and it doesn't have to make sense but I like giving him asthma sometimes for the angst potential of if he didn't have it, he wouldn't have died in the explosion.

He didn't die from said explosion, nor JUST the smoke inhalation, but because he had an asthma attack, on the ground, bones broken, unable to breath because his inhaler did NOT survive the blast, if he even had it on him.

And that's why he wears helmet with so, so many filters in it now...

Also, being a street kid who struggles to even get his medication that keeps him alive? Peak angst, being to poor to afford your medication because the American healthcare system is actually trashy garbage.

R.I.P. Jason Todd, you would've loved clean air--

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ANEMIC TIM DRAKE! But I up you, Tim Drake with Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS)

(POTS: Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS) is a condition that causes your heart to beat faster than normal when you transition from sitting or lying down to standing up. It’s a type of orthostatic intolerance.)

Read ONE SINGLE FIC/ SERIES with this and I've loved it since because what do you mean he randomly falls asleep anywhere? No, forget your canon, he passed out and people think he just fell asleep... NOpe, he passed out, sorry random lady he was on a date with!

(The majority of people are AFAM but we aren't ready for my trans Tim headcanons yet either.)

(You’re at a higher risk of developing POTS after experiencing the following stressors:

Significant illnesses, such as viral illnesses like mononucleosis or serious infections.

Physical trauma, such as a head injury.)

Ngl, my dude gets a LOT of physical trauma (and mental--) also, losing a spleen? Surgery and at risk of viral illnesses? I'm sorry, but I need him to suffer more because I like when Tim Drake suffers horribly.

Now, despite having this condition, I am no expert, but also his caffiene/ energy drink addiction is from chronic fatigue, he shouldn't drink it, it's not healthy or good for him, but he stopped caring between the spleen loss and whatever the "Drake" run he did was because what even was that name?--

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Damian is autistic and I will DIE ON THAT HILL--

No, I won't explain and you can't make me.

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[goddess-of-graphite]

okokok i hear you but...

A Bruce who is Danny. A Bruce who came to Amity Park at eight years old, who takes on an entirely different name because people know Bruce Wayne, if only as the tragically orphaned heir to the Wayne fortune and business. A Bruce who, by the time he's fourteen, has not forgotten Gotham but has at least been convinced to embrace life as "Danny" while he has it, because there was never any doubt that one day Bruce would go back home.

A Bruce who has found a sister, and has become reluctantly fond of the Fentons, who maybe can't think of them as his parents the way Thomas and Martha were but is willing to let them fill the space they left. A Bruce who has found friends, who are arguably as weird as he is. A Bruce who has lived at least somewhat a normal life, for all that he's made dozens of plans for what he's going to do when he makes his return to Gotham.

This is a Danny who has definitely trained with Maddie. This is a Danny who can only just about stomach using an ecto-gun, because they don't look or sound like the thing that killed Bruce's parents. This is a Danny who probably noticed the little tells that spoke of Sam's wealth and figured she didn't want to talk about it so he wouldn't bring it up. This is a Danny who looked at Tucker's prowess with technology and did everything in his power to catch up, to give Tucker a challenge.

(This is still a Danny who is bullied, who can be a complete gremlin, who walks into a dark portal because his friend wants a picture. This is a Danny who doesn't tell Maddie and Jack about his new halfa-ness because... for all that they have spent the past six years loving him, he's not sure that's enough to trump their scientific fervor (this is a Danny who is from Gotham, who knows that human depravity can come from all sorts of places and people and that loving someone is not always a protection from that))

So things go largely somewhat as in canon. Because Danny might be Bruce but he's still fourteen, and kind of an idiot sometimes.

And eventually the problems in Amity Park begin to get resolved.

And eventually, Danny becomes old enough to go off on his own. (To go home).

Cue Batman canon, with Bruce's training world tour and then return to Gotham to become a vigilante.

Only you best not believe Team Phantom isn't going to follow him to the ends of the earth and back.

So you get a Bruce who was Danny, who is now Batman, who has Alfred (who never left), who has Jazz and Jack and Maddie (who loved him more than their research, even when he wasn't blood), who has Sam and Tucker and maybe Valerie-

you've got a Batman who has an extensive support network that goes beyond just the butler.

(and, incidentally, you've got a Bruce who was a child hero. the first child hero.)

And then you give him children. and you watch the chaos unfold.

DP x DC prompt #32

After the death of Bruce's parents, Bruce is sent to stay at his uncle Jack's and aunt Maddie's house in a small town named Amity Park, at least he gets to hang out with his older cousin Jasmine.

[littlefankingdom]

Things I NEED y'all to stop putting in Jason fics:

"Since Red Hood arrived, he cleaned up Crime Alley better than Batman ever has" First of all, this is not even the case in the comics, so y'all are making this up to make Jason's way "the right way". Second of all, if murdering criminals violently worked better, then that's what the cops would be doing, because, new flash, but the gov used to be way more violent, and crimes were worse, and the gov had to lower its violence, because we know it doesn't work and the gov didn't have enough good excuses to continue. If you think they are not waiting for an excuse to violently kill people, you are wrong. So, stop writing that shit, it's borderline fascist propaganda (violence is the only way to keep power/peace, so free real estate for us to kill anyone we label as criminals) You do not need to find excuses for Jason.

"Crime Alley is Jason's territory and the Bats cannot enter it without his permission" Also, not canon, never was. Are you all forgetting that Bruce's parents died in Crime Alley? That's how it got its name. It's where Batman was born. It's where Bruce goes to mourn his parents during patrols. It's an important location for the Batfam as a whole. It's where Dick thinks his siblings are not authorized to fight when Bruce is "dead"/gone because it is insulting Bruce's memory. It's the meeting points the Bats use multiple times. Batman's first night was probably in Crime Alley. Crime Alley is the mission, to make it a better place for its inhabitants is Bruce's goal. He is shown multiple times to be very protective of its people, especially in front of powerful figures (politicians/rich). As much as Bruce loves Jason, he would not give up Crime Alley. Yes, Jason grew up in Crime Alley, but Crime Alley was Bruce's before Jason was even born.

"Crime Alley hates the bats, except for Red Hood" Again, Batman has been protecting the people of Crime Alley since he started. He was the only one who fought for them against the people that hurt them, the cops not giving a fuck about the poor. Like, stop trying to paint Bruce as a rich guy disconnected from the people, that's not who he is and who he ever was (except for some storylines, but like, fuck these storylines). He has not live their struggles, but he has studied it, he cares about it. And, I can understand that not everyone in Gotham and Crime Alley likes Batman, of course. But to make children dislike Robin or NIGHTWING??? Dick's whole thing is how he is always everyone's favorite. He's an acrobat, he is flying with grace in the sky without powers, he is all smile and gentleness with children, no fucking way children don't like him.

"Dick killed the Joker for Jason." No, he killed the Joker in an act of rage and fear when he had Tim and threatened to kill him like the last one. BUT ALSO, and this is really important, DICK WAS HORRIFIED about what he had done. He hated himself and self-isolated, refused to listen to Bruce and Barbara when they tried to comfort him. This is not something he is proud of. Dick wouldn't be like "Yeah, I killed the Joker, but you know Bruce... I don't regret it." He does regret it. Bruce forgave him way faster than Dick forgave himself for killing the Joker. He would not do it again if he could, that's why it only happened once.

"Jason is mad at Bruce for being too late to save him." Nope. In Under The Red Hood, Jason literally tells Bruce he forgives him for not saving him. Jason was NEVER angry at Bruce for not saving him. Jason is mad because he thinks Bruce doesn't care about him. If Tim hadn't taken the Robin's mantle, Jason probably would have gone home, because that's what hurt him the most, the possibility that he was replaced in Bruce's eyes.

"Jason ran away because Bruce believed he killed someone" It was never explicit if Bruce did believe Jason pushed the rapist. But also, no. When Jason ran away, Bruce just benched him as Robin because he saw that Jason was hurting and needed help, and being a vigilante wasn't helping. Pls, read Death In The Family, Bruce was trying his best to support Jason and help him. Jason being violent at times is a sign, for Bruce, that Jason is hurting. He doesn't villanize Jason's actions. Don't be like DC writers and forget that Bruce knows that violence and aggression come from pain.

"The memorial is Bruce's making and Alfred hates it" WRONG, it's the contrary. Alfred made the memorial, Bruce was against it. Please, stop putting all the blame on Bruce and making Alfred perfect. Bruce hates the memorials, he hates his sons being remembered as soldiers. He put up with the memorials because it's Alfred. (I am so tired from y'all blaming Bruce for this one, omg) Also, while we are it, Alfred doesn't put up with Jason's bs. Jason can criticize Bruce, but there's a limit for Alfred.

[darkcrowprincess]

Why I love Batman:

I love Batman because he's this person from privilege that had this horrible thing happen right in front him. And he grows up and decided no, I'm not going to let this horrible thing happen to anyone else again. And he trains himself to be a hero and uses his skills and privilege to help people. Both as Batman and Bruce Wayne. That's why he's a hero. Why I like him. Why I want good things for him and the people he loves/ is his family. Why I'll never read comics or anything that doesn't fit that. Thats why I don't read comics. Because that's not my batman. Batman would never do that. Batman is overprotective and paranoid up the wazo (for good reason) but he wouldn't do that, or what's the point. He has the power to affect change and he does it. Everyday. He gives a shit and he cares. Too much at times. Even though there's certain things he wants: to be a doctor like his father, have a normal family. Love his kids and catwoman. He can't because his duty has to come first. Which I love. He really is a dark knight and gotham is like his kingdom he's swore to protect. And he's not prefect of course. He is so human and complicated and makes so many mistakes. Which I love about him. But he never gives up and keeps trying. That's who my batman is. He's someone who just wants to help.

(Don't like don't read. Post hate and I'll block you!)

[alittlesongbirdchirps]

MY WORLD AU

Bruce Wayne isn't human he never was.

His body was a false form created to do his task, his mission, to gather information on Earth.

And that information would help his kind decide whether or not to destroy the entire planet and everything on it.

And his kind one of them could do it with a mere hand completely crush it in their grasp.

But no they won't judge based on an outside point of view.

So that's why Bruce is sent there, given a human form, he's not allowed to do anything unless it is human-like not even allowed to use his powers, not allowed to kill any humans.

Because It will muddy the water, and mess up the result.

Only after he's done observing, gathering all the data possible for judgment may he return to his true form.

His body's parents, no the character he plays to observe, Bruce Wayne's parents are murdered.

He uses all the information he gathered so far in his short time on earth from the television show he witnessed and vows vengeance on all criminals.

He begins to think maybe that's not a normal human reaction, that's until he takes in Dick.

Not out of care but out of the fact, that this is an actual human that also witnessed his parents die, so it's more out of the purpose he wants to see if he performed his so-called grief correctly, and humanely.

And apparently, he did since Dick acted similar to how he did all those years ago.

But when Jason came into his life it was the same at that start only taking him in to gather more information in particular he wanted to see if he could change human behavior if he took him in.

So he gave him more attention than he ever did Dick but at some point with Jason, or maybe it was even with Dick but he began to care though he wouldn't admit it not until Jason died.

Rage, an emotion he never felt before, and true grief, he was gonna kill the Joker fuck this stupid study.

And he will do it while in this human form, so it's slow and painful but Superman stops him, Bruce nearly swings at him but manages to stop himself managing to get his bearing back and now it was solely about this mission again.

No longer holding back against criminals anymore, he won't kill them but if they died from the injuries it wasn't his fault it was theirs.

Eventually, Tim Drake comes into his life almost like a whirlwind, demanding to be robin he refuses mainly because he doesn't need any more data on human younglings, but Tim threatens to compromise his mission as Batman, he doesn't know what Bruce truly is not yet.

Tim figures something out at some point, that Bruce isn't human it wasn't like Bruce was trying to hide it anymore.

Tim begins to ask him many questions with the underlying unspoken words, I know you're not human but I won't bring it up.

Oddly Bruce finds himself intrigued by this human this youngling is smart, especially by human standards, and he begins to study him he's different than the others, smarter, similar to the whole Bruce character He temporarily is until he finishes his mission.

Much later on;

When Bruce is 'killed.' by Darkside, he's simply beamed back to relay his data, and he lies he knows what his kind will do, destroy his earth, it is his earth, destroy his family that he built.

His kind doesn't lie, it's beneath them, so they believe him, for now, he makes a few requests for extra measures, like getting the earth to be put in his true name before returning.

Of course, Tim believed he was alive he was the only one who truly knew Bruce wasn't human but he didn't know what.

But something happens whether the Joker again or an invasion because his kind realizes his bitch ass lied.

So he protects them, he protects his earth, his true form his true size briefly leaking out, and he easily defeats them.

The league of course asks him what happened and what was that, and he simply lies that he was briefly possessed by some cosmic entity. Obviously, the bats call bullshit but don't call him out until they return to the cave demanding answers. LOL

(Little drabble idea.)

NOT EDITED LATE NIGHT, CONSIDERED THIS TIRED BULLSHIT SCRIBBLES OF WRITING.

[mistress-of-vos]

Idk where the whole "Tim hating Lex and being annoying to him and somehow being smarter" comes from... Oh, wait! I know where it comes from!

Annoying, ignorant batfam fans

And it's not even surprising if we take a careful look. We're talking about the fandom that doesn't understand Clark, Kon and Jon at all and uses them for batfam prop up purposes. It's the same fandom that doesn't even comprehend Batman characters and says the most disgusting stuff about Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as if his character wasn't summarized in like, five comics you can easily read. The same fandom that doesn't get Selina Kyle despite the fact that movies like The Batman exist, that the Long Halloween got an animated adaptation, that she has DOZENS of praised comics you can pick up to understand her. The same fandom that doesn't understand freaking Ra's al Ghul as if the guy didn't have a trilogy that literally summarizes his character and also he's an archetype, how the hell do you get an archetype so popular as his as wrong as batfam fandom does?

*insert Misty breathing loudly here*

Okay I kind of got off the point. I was talking about the annoying portrayal of Tim and Lex, because those who do that don't even understand Tim. Tim would *love* to interact with Lex.

This is Lex Luthor, Superman's nemesis, the smartest man of earth. Tim would be thrilled that he can have a chance of going against him even if he's actually just standing next to a Bruce who tries to get Lex to answer a question just to get Lex drinking wine and telling Mercy to call security.

Tim is a detective, and we have seen how, despite everything, he admits greatness when he sees it. I do think he could get a bit sarcastic with Lex when on his Red Robin persona (we have seen how sarcastic he got with Ra's even when Ra's is definitely more likely to shut him up than Lex is) but I actually don't believe he would do that often as he would be too conscious that if someone is a master of speech, it's Lex Luthor. His words got him all the power of the world after all. You don't wanna start a sarcasm fight with someone like Lex.

And I believe as Tim Drake, he openly admires Lex. Maybe not in a idol way, but Lex is a genius, and I bet on the DC world Lex's career is studied both by people in economy and politics and STEM. Lex did so much with so little that I highly doubt there's a way for Tim to not admit that yes, Lex may be *bad* but he's certainly a genius and perfect at what he does. Credit where it's due, or something.

Lastly, I don't think Tim hates Lex. They aren't close enough for that, and Lex is often dancing in a grey area, and don't forget Tim is already fine with many figures in said grey space. Tim would consider Lex a danger, of course, because getting on Lex's bad side can get him killed. He also considers Lex someone who can and will do good, but Tim isn't gonna be the one to go on that trip of getting Lex to see what his genius can make for the world (that's on Clark).

The only thing Tim could dislike about Lex it's that Lex hurt Kon. And Tim loves Kon (in whatever way you prefer) and Tim comes to me as the kind of person who can't quite forget those things. He would be wary, perhaps, constantly on his tip toes when operating too close to Lex's doings and clenching his jaw when Kon interacts with the man because as much as Tim knows Lex is always in control and won't hurt Kon again... He still did. But if Tim held that against Bruce, wouldn't Bruce lose on the number of children he has hurt? Tim can't quite settle his feelings on that, but Kon got over it, so it's not something Tim keeps against Lex.

Tim is careful around Lex, and he's also a bit of a fan.

And well, he is thankful too. Lex brought Kon into the world, and Tim is thankful for that.

(My conclusion is that some batfam fans have clearly never read Superman comics but also it's funny they haven't read Batman comics either and maybe they shouldn't speak on stuff they don't know but that's just my opinion right)

[hollow-keys]

I think a lot of people don't get that superheroes don't often have the morality of online leftist. They will see Batman go guns bad. Donate to charity. No killing. And assume his anti killing rules are routed in leftist ideology.

This isn't true. He supports state sanctioned killing in many comics. He is anti-vigilante killing. And on occasion even against self defense killing.

In Batman #420 Bruce locks KG Beast in a storage room and leaves him there to either find a way to escape himself or die (not seeming to care which, honestly if I am remembering correctly leaning towards death) but in Batman #422 he condemns Judy Koslosky's self defense killing of a serial killer who had already killed her sister because she lured him into attempting to kill her by following him around and glaring at him. Both give the villains the opportunity to survive KG Beast has to escape and Karl just has to resist the temptation to try to murder a woman.

There is Batman: The Hill where he defends the GCPD killing a 14 year old with a gun as necessary but in Batman: Under the Hood he condemns the death of Captain Nazi. This isn't the most leftist character in the world. Leftists don't tend to be okay with cops killing kids but against killing Nazis. It tends to be the other way around. I read Batman: The Hill and I do think the cops used undue force and should have at least attempted deescalation in that situation.

There is a lot to say about the vague morals of the characters. Batman does a lot for charity but he definitely classist in a lot of his appearances. Characters can be complex and imperfect. Just because he cares about people in poverty doesn't mean he doesn't look down on them.

Also the whole 'violently beat people okay' and 'child sidekick okay' because genre convention while killing bad. It's like . . . killing is also present in superhero comics? Deadpool, Wolverine, Crimson Avenger, the Spectre . . . killing is also part of the genre. It has nuance to it. But heroes have killed at least on occasion since the very beginning.

Yes, you get it! People on here take "doesn't kill/believes in redemption" to be inherently proof of support of rehabilitative justice and leftism when... it isn't lol. I've yapped about superheroes and copaganda before here (I think it's a good post, I'm proud of it) so I'll try not to repeat myself too much but a conservative can believe in people's ability to change and not killing or whatever while still supporting the structures of the police and prisons, still believing that people should be arrested and serve time, even the rest of their lives. And that's what people don't get.

The word cop has been so twisted by this site that people use it to mean "anyone who judges me" or "anyone I don't like." It's used to describe individual behaviour the person has a problem with which ends up obfuscating the fact that a cop isn't defined by their personal ideology or what type of violence they commit, they're defined by the fact they commit violence to uphold the state's power. Their personal thoughts and opinions can make them worse, more violent and more oppressive, but personal opinions do not change what they are. Batman is a paramilitary state operative, not a radical leftist. I'm sorry.

And yeah the charity defense also misunderstands the point because conservatives donate to charity all the time. Charity is used by the rich to launder their reputations. They give a tiny fraction of their wealth back to the people so people don't question the rest of their wealth. Narratively, this works the same way so writers can go "See! He tries helping people via kindness but Gotham is innately corrupt and people just choose to be evil here so of course he has to dress up as a bat every night." Narratively, his charity exists so the writers can justify why he has to be Batman and to make him look better. If he really meant to help people with his money, he wouldn't be a billionaire anymore.

You're right about killing being present in the genre since since forever. Not as consistently as other things, but still present for sure. People defend violence they enjoy as "just part of the genre" but condemn violence they don't as bad and wrong.

I support hitting superheroes with the leftist beam but the fact of the matter is that most aren't in text and Batman even less so than others.

And you can dislike this. Batman is a character who's been through a million different incarnations and interpretations and you can latch on to more liberal, understanding incarnations or make up your own but you cannot defend main universe Bruce by pretending he's something he's not.

Thanks for the ask!

[starsapphire]

Saw mysterycirtus/roseworth’s ranking of the Batfamily in skill and I’m curious of your ranking (if you have one)

obligatory i don't love power scaling but ! i do think abt this i won't lie. in terms of pure combat skill then obviously cass is #1. she was a weapon even when she was but a twinkle in her father's eye. she's the closest to superhuman a non-meta can get. i would say bruce and dick are pretty equally matched. bruce has more brute force and stamina on his side but like greta mysterycitrus said, dick has been a trained acrobat since he was a little kid and he very much uses that to his advantage. i think if you removed emotions from the equation bruce would win by a very very very narrow margin but it would be a pyrrhic victory. (damian's too young to tell but he's also been trained pretty much from birth.) babs and tim were both in gymnastics/training of some sort/etc from childhood and are like the most obsessively determined people ever so they are absolutely forces to be reckoned with. steph and duke are not the world's best fighters by any means but they're not exactly white belts. like they probably seem kind of mid as fighters but u have to remember they only seem that way because they're next to batman and his trained-from-infancy children. they will still kick your ass

that said i would not rank them purely on combat skill bc that's not all they have going on! there's a lot you have to consider. pure combat/fighting skill yes, but also ability to strategise, to improvise, empathy, people skills, and of course detective work. generally i think i wouldn't rank them so much as say that they all have different strengths. i hate the whole trend of "x is the ___ one" but like. they do all have different strengths. it would be a boring story if they all had the exact same abilities or were all so perfect at everything that they never needed to work together to balance out their weaknesses yk? maybe dick is the better fighter, but tim has a better chance than dick does at defeating the baddie of the week if he's done his research. i feel like when everything is measured, they're all more or less on the same level, but they all have different strengths

not going to explain bruce because he's bruce. he's the prototype. do i think he's better than everyone at everything? no. but he's good at a lot of things, and more importantly, he's got decades of experience in balancing it all

dick is a jack of all trades on par with bruce — he's just good at a lot of things. and also like bruce, he has decades of experience balancing it all. ultimately he gets a nudge towards the skill/style axis because he doesn't just fight, he puts acrobatics into it. which is crazy! his absolutely batshit combat style is kind of his greatest strength in a fight, even beyond strategy and knowing how to throw a punch in the first place

cass is a very, very good fighter with a vast skillset, but it's emphasised throughout her time on-panel that she's still learning how to be a detective. that's why the tim and cass teamup is so great (and effective!) -- tim's not a bad fighter, but detective-ing comes more easily to him; cass isn't necessarily a bad detective, but when it comes down to it she's leagues better at combat. they balance one another out.

tim: see above. he's a good fighter and absolutely insane with a bo staff, but remember that he did so well in that fight against king snake because he used the staff as a tool to distract and disorient him before he ever landed a hit with it

jason is kind of an enigma to me because he's sort of whatever the writer needs him to be in the moment. like bruce and dick, he's kind of a jack of all trades, but ultimately his greatest strength is just... taking people out. he's a great strategist and a great planner and a great detective, but that's outweighed by his ability to be brute force up close and have good aim from a distance.

i personally feel like i haven't read enough steph, duke, or damian (yet) to rank them on this bit but like... you get it. may revisit when i finish new earth and/or get to my duke reading. we will see

now you may say, cam, this was a one-sentence ask. cam, how did you manage to get several paragraphs out of that. to which i say, buddy, i am so fucking unemployed

[thatscarletflycatcher]

I was watching STAS the other day and getting really smad again about Sn*der's Superman. Rivers of electronic ink have run talking about the cheerlessness of his version of the character, defenses have run back about it being based on Injustice (as if that justified making an AU the core of your main cinematic universe) but besides that, there's really two things that bother me a lot.

One of them is what people call heavy handed Christian symbology. And I'd say that it takes more than juxtaposing Supes and a vitraux of Jesus or placing him over the world with his arms extended. Like all things Zack Sn*der, it begins and ends in superficial visuals, of which you are left with the impression the director does not understand at all. The Jesus symbolism doesn't begin and end in "son of God"; the christic figure is full of compassion for mankind and their weaknesses; it takes upon itself pain and suffering to protect them; it has walked among them and lived as one of them, has laughed and has cried and can therefore understand them and bring them the companionship of shared experience in their joys and pains. A complete example of this is Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings, but the superhero movie genre uses these ideas often: Doctor Strange, in his first movie, stands between the darkness that consumes it all and Earth, dying again and again to keep Earth alive, and defeating death in death itself; Batman takes upon himself the sins of another so that the city can have hope and a time of grace in The Dark Knight; even in Josstice League Bruce argues that Superman should be brought back to life because the world needs Superman and the League needs Clark, the one of them that has experience the most human life of them all.

But Sn*der's Superman is none of these things. Superman stands in judgement of humanity, begrudgingly doing things for them, because, well, I guess Lois is human. Superman is pretty much untouchable in his emotions, above the petty concerns of simple humans (that aren't Lois), perpetually alien to the world in which he walks. He never laughs. His first instinct upon awakening is murdering everything that comes across him. Sn*der's Supes is, at best, the sketch of a Greek god.

And the second thing is that, if you really wanted to make a dark version of Superman, there are other interesting ways to do it. Even a storyline similar to Holmes adaptations could work, where his heightened senses bring him pain, and kryptonite brings relief and it becomes an addiction. Or without the addiction you can explore the ways in which Superman might be tempted, stripped of his powers, of fearing pain and dodging the call to help. Of course these wouldn't be versions of main Superman, but for a dark retelling they carry interest because they bring character conflict, something that Sn*der's marble-like, stoic Supes desperately needs.

[unhingedreblogging]

Danny immediately clocks Batman and Wonder Woman, Batman due to his definite Liminal nature, WW because there's hardly any difference between her in civvies and in spandex, Superman takes a bit more time, but he clocks the Man of Steel before the night is over, Martian Manhunter gets a blast of static and really powerful emotions if he tries to read Danny's mind, leading Danny to clock him next. Those are few only JL members Danny clocks though. This holds nothing to really do with the story, but my thoughts on how Danny would figure out any of them. Onto the actual writing now.

Danny was out at a bar, spending a bit of time with a few of his more friendly rogues who look the more human, since they're in a bar and not in Amity, and his actually human friends. Ember, Johnny, and Kitty, as well as Sam, Tucker, and Valerie join him.

Danny immediately detects someone not quite living, and that's a surprise because they don't actually set of his ghost sense, he only feels it bubble, not mist, which is new. Turning to look at where the feeling came from, he spots Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince, some detective looking guy, and Clark Kent, but Bruce Wayne is definitely the one who set him off.

Danny was of course on the outside of their booth, so he stands up after a second. "I'm gonna go talk to them, I'll be back. Bet I can drink one of them under the table." He says, leaving a $50 behind as his bet.

Sam, Tucker, and Valerie of course match the bet, the ghosts don't have money but they do have insider knowledge, Danny can't actually get drunk, so it wouldn't be fair to bet anyway.

Danny saunters over to the table and smiles, not too wide, at the four people. "I don't usually do this, but I want to have a little fun tonight, what do you say to a shot-for-shot as a way to get to know each other?" He's gotten much more confident in his years after high school and into college, so his voice doesn't even waver a bit, and Diana nods.

"I think that would be a wonderful idea, we could always use new friends. Who will be paying?" She asks, pointedly looking to Bruce, who doesn't pale but does roll his eyes and start reaching into his pocket, before being stopped by Danny. "No no, I'll be paying, keep your money Mr. Wayne."

A surprised look crosses his face, but Bruce smiles and nods, taking his hand out of the suit pocket, he's not surprised in the slightest that his young man knows who he is. "Alright, what's your name young man?" He asks smoothly, taking a drink of the beer he had already been served, he's already mentally ready to call someone for the man after Diana drinks him into unconsciousness.

"The names Danny Fenton, and what's yours ma'am? I'd like to know who I'm drinking with and against." He asks, extending a hand easily to Diana, Clark seems a bit concerned about something but doesn't want to bring it up, something Clark Kent shouldn't know but Superman would. "Diana Prince, lovely to make your acquaintance Danny, shall we start?"

And that's how it began, the others at the table thought Danny would go out after ten, he was after all in rather good shape, clearly healthy, but no, ten shots in and he's still laughing and talking clearly, Diana much the same, but a little surprised and even elated.

Twenty shots in and she's ever so slightly swaying, Bruce looks concerned. 30 shots and it's getting ridiculous, Danny hasn't even started to sway or slur his words, Diana is having to hold herself up by the table edge. 40 shots and Danny is still laughing good naturedly, J'ohnn J'onzz looks confused and then as if he was smacked, but no mental connection comes to Bruce, Clark looks deeply concerned. 50 shots and Diana is barely able to hold herself up, while Danny is still as chipper as he was at the start. 60 shots and two hours later, Diana is snoring with her face on the table, Danny stands up and pays for the drinks, everyone's drinks, and two more rounds for the ones who didn't just drink themselves unconscious before walking easily back to his booth, not even a hint of staggering.

Danny is obviously confused as he sits back down, everyone else looking at him with amusement or shock, Danny shrugs and just goes back to his cocktail.

Short DP X DC Prompts #17

Danny cannot get drunk. The Justice League have a night out in civillian clothing and this scrawny kid challenges Wonder Woman to a drinking contest. Wonder Woman in good nature agrees to this challenge. Over the next few hours the Justice League watches in absolute fascination and horror as this kid drinks the freaking Wonder Woman under the table. 

[commenter2]

I watched a video by Youtuber T.M.M. that went over what Lantern Corp Superman's villains could be a member of, and in it he brought up the idea of the kryptonite the villain Metallo has possibly being effected by the powers of a red lantern ring.

This makes me wonder how each individual light/energy of the emotional spectrum could effect kryptonite since that substance has always been easily effected/changed by nearly anything, like how there is magic kryptonite and kryptonite that is safe to Kryptonians but dangerous for something else like plants.

I got some ideas for what I think could happen and I will use Superman as the main example.

Crimson/Red Rage Kryptonite can make any Kryptonian that gets near it grow angry to a point they can act villainous like how it would make Superman act like Regime Superman or Ultraman, as I always recall them being so angry. Red Lantern Supergirl would be immune to this, since a lot of people seem to have forgotten that she was a Red Lantern for a time.

Orange Avarice Kryptonite could give Superman a big appetite, both for food and power, as it can also give him a power similar to his villain Parasite. Unless something is done or until the effects of the kryptonite fade, he will constantly want more energy and power from people.

Yellow Kryptonite (which interestingly was never a real thing) could make Superman paranoid and on edge. The more expose to it the more scared he will become, to a point he will act like Flashpoint Superman.

I don't see the Green light doing anything to regular kryptonite. Same with black lantern and white lantern energy so moving on.

Blue Hope Kryptonite has a calming effect on Superman. I also could see it being able to heal him and negate the effects of actual kryptonite when nearby. He has to be careful though as too much exposure could put him in a heavy relaxed state, to a point he ironically doesn't want to do anything.

Indigo Compassion Kryptionite I think could negate the effects of other emotional spectrum infused kryptonite. Of course Superman has to be careful as too much exposure could make him feel too compassionate, to a point he will cry and freeze up because he feels guilty about all the people he couldn't help.

Violet Love Kryptonite can make Superman love everything, which can annoy people since he could possibly keep hugging them, to a point it becomes creepy like this

Superman: Bruce! (hugs Batman) Batman: ow Superman: Bruce Batman: Yeah? Superman: You're my BEST FRIEND! Batman (grimaces) Superman: I'm going to give everyone here a HUG! Flash: RUN! (is stopped by Superman's hug)

I made some original Lantern Corps a while ago and I'm going to add them here while I'm at it.

Gold Pride Kryptonite makes Superman act cocky, making him a bit like Homelander or worse, Lex Luthor. He will always try to show off and try to make people think they aren't as good at him in things. When someone does, he can go as far as sabotaging them just to look better by comparison. Too much exposure or if his ego gets big enough before the effects of the kryptonite wear off, will make him do anything to protect his pride, even kill.

Silver Happy Kryptonite makes Superman get into a good mood, sometimes too good that he forgets to fight the bad guys just to enjoy the flowers.

Grey Sadness Kryptonite makes Superman depressed and not want to fight.

Brown Disgust Kryptonite makes Superman act like a slob both by having bad manners or make an unnecessary mess just to stop a simple crime from happening.

Beige Stoic Kryptonite can actually strip Superman of his emotions, making it another way to negate the effects of emotional spectrum kryptonite. It can still be dangerous if he wasn't under such influence beforehand as it would then make him only rely on logic to do things, which could possibly put others in danger as he will think killing would be the best result of stopping a crime or wouldn't bother trying to help someone if there was less then a 51% chance of success.

Do you think such an idea would be fun to see in the comics?

[providencehq]

(ShrikeAU) Yo, so I'm guessing that post-reveal that Batman and the batfam still kind of handle Danny with the kid gloves since they don't have a clue how experienced he actually is. His powers are probably pretty useful in certain situations, but I still don't think Danny is totally honest about his double life, how powerful he actually is, and everything he's been through. They know some things, but Danny is still pretty cagey about his life in Amity and how he came to be Phantom. (1/2)

[2/2] Then one of Danny's old rogues comes to town and starts ripping shit up, and the batfam witness their first REAL ghost fight. They tell Danny to get back and let them handle it, but Danny's had enough and just throws himself into the fight. It's one of the most brutal and vicious battles that they ever witness, and then they realize how little they actually know about him. After the fight, they see how ripped up he is, and actually get a glance at his battle scars and realize he's no greenhorn.

Yea! After things get smoothed over with the less than stellar accidental reveal, the family as a whole do still generally treat him with kid gloves. They know Danny is good enough to be a vigilante, after all they did train him but the whole ghost/meta aspect of him, that has to be a newer development right? They've only been seeing Phantom around Gotham for maybe a year at best, that's not a lot of time to understand new powers. After all, it took Clark Kent years to get a hold of his powers and Duke Thomas has been with them for a few years and is still learning about his powers and how to master them. Because of this, they think he maybe developed his powers just before coming/running away to Gotham.

I can easily image someone like Shulker or Freakshow showing up in Gotham and wreaking havoc. The bats think they might have an up and coming rogue in Gotham and due to unknowns, they leave some of the less experienced members out of the fight, namely Danny. They don't want him to get hurt despite Danny claiming he can easily help, that he knows he can be of use. But his protests don't work and he's kicked off from helping, of course he doesn't listen to them anyways and gets tangled into the fight anyways.

The Bats don't know the full extent of what Danny can do, he is very cagey about his past and hadn't budged much about his time in Amity and later, about being Phantom. They get to see a pretty good picture of what Danny used to be, what Phantom used to be. It'll be a brutal fight for sure, partly because he's trying to prove he'd capable of fighting against rouges but also that he shouldn't be treated like he doesn't know what he can do. The Bats never really see Danny/Shrike/Phantom in fights, he usually tries to talk his way through before fighting, so seeing him go directly to fighting and to an intensity they've never seen before must be a little scary, at least to the point where they failed to know the extent of what Danny, their newest ward, is capable of.

I like to personally think the only one in the whole family who would have seen Danny's scars in any regard would have been Alfred when helping with medical things but he wouldn't say anything to Bruce in order to keep what little trust Danny has with them. So after the fight and getting his costume destroyed, they finally see the damage a teen, a teen who managed to survive by himself until they forced him to accept their help. Must be gut wrenching to realize how hurt he was in the past and to never notice.

[impyssadobsessions]

So far from what I’ve read from your DPxDC fanfictions I’m in love. Danny would just thrive so much having other supers/vigilantes to bounce off of.

BUTT it got me thinking… What about Dani? She doesn’t have the ghost crown tying her to Amity Park nor is she responsible for any ghost containment. If she’s really stabilized she can go wherever she wants in the world. Heck if she’s feeling drained she could take a dunk in a Lazarus Pit for all we know. Plus she’s got the black hair blue eyes too. AND a very good reason not to trust rich men wanting to adopt kids.

Danny would become top tier hero if he had other heroes to rely on >w< He already has the powers and from experience knows that life is in his hands, plus natural leader. I thought a lot about Dani's dynamic in DC crossover. There is a lot you can do with her, plus it be easier for her to run into heroes because she's roaming around. Also think it be fun if someone did a story of Catwoman semi-adopting Dani.. She be so proud of her little thief. XD I can see them both jiving well together. Meet while stealing =w= With the bats in particular, can see her wandering into Gotham and running into them. If she gives any of them a time of day its because one of them reminds her of Danny, so that little bit of security... (Which wouldn't be Bruce because Batman scary XD) Tim or Dick more likely.. or even Jason because he has that ghostly feel. Anyways Dani I see as a loner mischievous type, she's still fresh to the world so she doesn't have strong morals. I think Batman would actually be really good for her to grow, plus Batman actually has experience with kids that act like her. Once he overcomes her trust issues with billionaires of course. Dani also I don't see as the heroic type, anti-hero at best. She just rather be free and have fun, so I can see her running around as robin just for funs but decide heroing isn't for her. Her getting excited about doing normal things until she realize they're boring like school XDD. Can see Cass being a good mentor/older figure for her too. Dani would wreck havoc at galas.. and Bruce couldn't prove a thing. =w=' Kek. But like I said I see Bruce being a good figure for Dani because of his experience with the other kids.. and having strong morals. Which encourages Dani to start revaluating her own morale and what she is or isn't ok with. What crosses the line for her. Idk if her and B ever be close but she definitely would love all her family members and fight for them in a heartbeat. Ooo can also see if Batman doesn't know about Danny yet... Dani probably confusing the heck out of them.. when she mentions Danny.. because Dani is her name XD... but also them finding out about her "cuz". In DC crossover I see like Danny being good for Bruce's growth more than his own and Bruce being better for Dani's growth. Because Danny isn't like the other kids he's adopted.. despite looking and acting similar. He KNOWS the dangers, he knows how bad a screw up can change everything. He's half-dead, so he's very well aware that death is a possibilty. So Bruce would have to change his approach if he ever want to get close to/mentor Danny. Kek sorry for long post. I had the Dani thing explained better in my head, but anyways. Dani is perfect to use for a dp x dc especially for the bats. Tim bringing over Kon... Connner? ......k or c? ANYWAYS brings him over and she can relate to another clone. If going off from what I have written from my own fanfic.. can see Dani existing makes Danny and Bruce argue.. because Bruce like why haven't you told me and leaving her alone like that was irresponsible. Danny like WHAT YOU EXPECT FROM ME BRUCE?! I'm 16, she doesn't have a cellphone, and the only place that ISNT safe for her is my home town. Well until now.. AND WE HAVE A VENDETTA AGAINST BILLIONAIRES! Why would I tell someone I'm still trying to learn to trust?! Plus I like to make sure she's ok with it before telling you. Because its HER LIFE that's at risk. Anyways Danielle has so much potential. She just hyper little op demon. Chaotic little girl. ..again sorry for the long thing XD

[duskdog]

I started responding via tags but it actually started to get even more unwieldy than usual. :D I think you're right that withholding the information is evidence that at least some part of Bruce intended for Steph's time as Robin to be limited. Maybe there were other benefits to it. Like, even if he got Tim back, having a back-up trained wouldn't be the most awful thing. Maybe he thought he could use her in other capacities, even if she wasn't Robin anymore. Maybe he still really did think she had potential (he did tell her that once upon a time) and thought he could shape her towards something more acceptable while he's working on getting Tim back. And I certainly don't believe that he ever intended for Steph, or anyone, to get (physically) hurt. But I keep coming back to thoughts of what Batman is. He's the ultimate detective. He's a polymath, probably the best (or at least one of the best) in the entire DC Universe. His entire schtick is knowledge. Everything he does is based on information and preparation. He knows -- more than anybody in the world -- how absolutely vital it is to know things. He regularly fights people far more powerful than he is, and relies entirely on knowledge in order to do so. He even prepares plans about how to take down his closest comrades and friends, should it become necessary. Knowledge is, quite literally, power. So I can't believe for an instant that he doesn't 100% know that he's crippling Steph by withholding vital information from her. He knows that the person in the room with the least information is at the biggest disadvantage, and he willingly and knowingly ensured that person would be Steph. Now, maybe he expected her to "earn" that knowledge sooner rather than later. That seems a little doubtful, since nothing in this issue really indicates that he has much faith in her. He doesn't even really defend her to Alfred. He defends his choice, but he doesn't defend Steph directly, nor does his defense inspire much confidence, really. Basically "yeah, I know I said she sucks, but she's really determined, so I can probably teach her how not to suck". It seems more like he has faith in his teaching skills rather than in her learning skills. Regardless of whether he thought she would "pass" soon or not, though, I think it's sort of a moot point, because it was never necessary for him to make that split between Robin and knowledge in the first place. As you've pointed out, it's weird -- even Catwoman recognizes this. So why do it at all? Was it really so urgent that he have a Robin in the field now? Why not just keep her training out of the field until he trusted her enough to earn both the knowledge and the right to join him in the field? Something that would have been safer and more logical for everyone involved? It's almost like he really, really wanted someone to see her out in the colors sooner rather than later. Hmmm.... And of course, it's convenient that leaving her with limited information also happens to be setting her up to fail. It makes "lack of skills and talent" into a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the lack of information is inevitably going to lead to situations where she makes the wrong assumptions or the wrong call because she's missing pieces of the puzzle that no one else is. It was only a matter of time before she failed enough for him to boot her, even if she toed the line well enough to never willingly disobey him. Withholding knowledge = maintaining power and control. This was... a lot of words to say that I agree with you, I guess, but gosh I have such feelings about it.

Stephanie Brown: The Girl Robin, The Doomed Robin

Stephanie Brown is fired as Robin in Robin #128 (1993). I think there is strong evidence that Batman saw her time as Robin as temporary, and that she was always going to be fired, excuse or not, in Robin #128 or not. Just as soon as she became more trouble than she was worth, or as soon as she was no longer necessary.

I want to look at why (even from a Watsonian perspective) Stephanie Brown as Robin was doomed from the start. Here's Why I think this:

1. The False “Skills and Talent” excuse is reaffirmed and reutilized

After the period of time where Stephanie is sanctioned as Spoiler by Batman, she is ‘fired’ for the first time in Gotham Knights #37.

Batman does not tell Stephanie she is fired, he just never reallows her entry into the Batcave after locking everyone out during Bruce Wayne: Murderer. She has to track him down and ask what’s going on to find out he dropped her like she was nothing.

Gotham Knights #37 (2000)

He tells her it’s because she lacks the “skills or talent”. Is this true? Well… no, not reallyZ Or at least, we have very few good reasons to believe that this is Batman's real reason he fires her, especially in the face of all the other better substantiated explanations the text supports and states. As I’ve analyzed before, there’s strong evidence Batman fires her because he has reunited with his estranged team no longer needs her to make himself stop feeling lonely. Additionally, some part of her firing is because she reminds him too much of his dead son. (I highly recommend checking out the corresponding posts if you are interested in why)

Point is, I’ve already argued how the “skills or the talent” line is pretty much an Extremely bullshit excuse he only tells Stephanie to justify himself to her. But what does that have to do with Steph’s run as Robin?

Well, the idea that Stephanie lacks “the skills or the talent” comes up again. In fact, the exact words “skills and talent” are directly repeated when she is first sanctioned as Robin. And its very telling how they are used.

Let’s look at that moment. 

Alfred is trying to dissuade Batman from making Stephanie Robin, and Batman is defending his choice.

Robin #126 (1993)

Batman claims once more that Stephanie does not have the “skills and talent”. 

By doing this, Batman is reaffirming his largely facetious rationale he tells Stephanie when he he fires her the as Spoiler. By refusing to abandon this as an excuse, and repeating it now, he is reaffirming his own validity in that moment, his correctness is dropping her in the way he did.

But its also weird. If he fired her as Spoiler because he claimed she lacked “the skills or the talent”, why is he using her lack of “skills and talent” as a reason why she should be Robin?

Batman says she can be taught the “skills and talent” he claims she currently lacks. Was that magically not true when he fired her for lacking those same “skills and talent” in Gotham Knights #37? 

This straight contradiction is weird. What it does is key us in to the fact that Batmans spoken explanation about “skills and talent” for whether or not he wants Stephanie on his team is not really based off of any consistent logic about her skill level. 

This is backed up by something else he says to justify this choice in that very same comic.

Robin #126 (1993)

Again, this logic makes no sense with his past actions. If the issue with Stephanie being a vigilante is she is “out on her own” without being “under [Batmans] direct supervision”, then why did he fire Stephanie without a proper reason when she was sanctioned as Spoiler and was  under his supervision, when he was training her? 

Again, Robin #126 creates entirely contradictory logic for Batman, and calls out the specific peculiarities of this through the repetition of the “skills and talent” phrasing.

These moments establish right off the bat that Bruce Wayne’s spoken rationale for hiring Stephanie as Robin is completely illogical. 

Batman reusing the “skills and talent” justification also reaffirms his willingness to justify his first firing of her, and sets up the potential for him to use the exact same dumbass excuse that he used the first time.

This all shows that Batman is willing to use his bullshit excuses to fire or hire her indiscriminate from her actual personhood depending on what is most useful for him. And it shows Batman is retaining and reaffirming his so called “logic” for firing her in Gotham Knights #37, therefore leaving open the opprotunity for him to reuse the exact same excuse if he felt like it.

Chiefly, the reference to Gotham Knights #37 and her orginal firing asks us to compare her time as Robin to the first time she was hired and then fired, and examine why. And if the first time Steph was sanctioned was absoluely arbituary, what does that say about what might be true about her time as Robin?

But wait! There’s more.

2. Alfred’s allusion to Steph as an instrument to get Tim back as Robin

Alfred confronts Batman with this idea that Bruce might be trying to “lure” back Tim as Robin by making Stephanie Brown Robin.

Robin #126 (1993)

Regardless of how this scheme is supposedly meant to work, this idea is presented to the reader from Alfreds point of view. Alfred, who oftentimes serves as a vantage point of morality and reason in contrast to Batmans single-mindedness and irrational obsessions. Additionally, the language Alfred uses certifies how serious of an option this is. Alfred doesn’t just ask Batman to “clarify�� or “say” he isn’t hiring Steph as Robin to lure Tim back, Afred asks Batman to “promise” it. The word “promise” implies that this isn’t just a far off vague possibility that Alfred is discussing, but a distinct and worrying probability Alfred is detecting.

And damningly, Bruce does not answer Alfreds plea. All he would have to say is one word, ‘no’, and he would banish this as a possibility from Alfred's mind and largely deny this reading from the narrative. But, as we see, he doesn’t deny what Alfred says. He ignores the direct question, and he turns his face away. Look at how as he speaks only a sliver of his face is visible in the proceeding panel to Alfreds question. 

This places Batmans silence in an even more damning light. He can’t even look Alfred in the eyes, he is already looking away as he speaks, as he ignores Alfreds question entirely.

You can decide whether or not you find this moment entirely convincing, whether or not you believe Alfred is correct in his assessment. But at the very least, this moment asks the reader take seriously the possibility that Alfred is right: that Batman has made Stephanie Robin in order to try to get Tim Drake back as Robin.

But wait! There’s even more.

3. Stephanie Brown and the lack of information given to her as proof of the temporariness nature of her time as Robin

Bruce Wayne’s distrust of Stephanie is a long running theme of their relationship. It’s brought up consistently during the time she is sanctioned as Spoiler. 

Robin #100 (1993)

And it drives a wedge between her and Tim romantically, before she is eventually told Tims real identity.

This isn’t just a vague distrust, the main way it manifests is through the secret, vigilante related information which Stephanie does not have access to.

She is denied knowledge, specifically secret identity related knowledge, consistently. Not having Stephanie cued into all of the information the rest of the team has when she is Spoiler is a tactical decision which isn’t exactly cruel or necessarily especially strange on its own. But this distrust with sensitive information, (most primarily Batman’s true identity as Bruce Wayne) is extremely strange when Stephanie is made Robin.

The “Robin” identity up until that point is invariably tied to Bruce Wayne. 

In the cases of every Robin beforehand, (in most interpretations and tellings) the meeting of Bruce Wayne and the meeting of Batman occur in extremely close proximity to one another, and the full picture of Bruce Wayne’s secret identity does not remain a total secret for very long, and in NONE of these tellings is that information not known when any of the other Robins put on the costume. The Robin and Batman relationship is also just generally tied strongly to Bruce Wayne as an identity. Dick Grayson and Jason Todd are ward and adopted son respectively of Bruce Wayne specifically, and Tim Drake lives with Bruce Wayne in the manor. They all interact with the man and the mask.

Stephanie breaks this pattern. She is the only Robin who doesn’t get to know his real name or see his face. (Her relationship with Batman mirrors the early Batgirl/Batwoman archetype much more- a character who interacts with The Batman, but isn’t alllowed know him as Bruce Wayne)

The text of Robin #126 points out her lack of knowledge specifically, but explains it away as temporary.

Robin #126 (1993)

We are told in this panel that it is a temporary matter, that of course Stephanie will eventually get to know Batmans identity, she just has to prove herself first!

This screams bullshit to me. Stephanie has worked him as Spoiler for a considerable amount of time in the past, and after more time still she’s been made Robin, but this probation until she gets to know the “big secrets” is somehow necessary where it never has been before? I don’t really buy it, but you are certainly allowed to take him at his word.

Anyway you slice it, distance from important information, the “big secrets” is a prevailing aspect of Stephanie’s time as a vigilante.

And it finally comes to a head in War Games (2004). (I won’t break down the entirety of my thoughts on War Games here for the record, but trust me, they are numerous and vitriolic)

This idea of Batman's distrust in giving Stephanie sensitive information is hammered in over and over during War Games. For instance, the first issue of War Games contains several small allusions to this idea.

Batman: The 12 Cent Adventure (2004)

This only becomes more overt as War Games continues, specifically when Stephanie meets and speaks with Catwoman.

Catwoman #34 (2002)

Catwomans internal monolouge points out the specific strangeness of Robin Stephanie not knowing who Matches Malone is, she presses on how this is especially strange for someone using the Robin mantle, alluding to what I touched on earlier, the unqiuess of Robin Stephanie’s relationship with secrets and secret identities compared to every other Robin.

 Catwoman #34 (2002)

We get another example of this where Selina once more points out information that Selina, a longtime friend, enemy, and lover of Batman, assumes Robin would or should naturally know, which we discover Stephanie was not privy to during her time as Robin.

Thats two examples where Stephanie’s lack of knowledge about secret identities (which there is no real reason for her not to know) is specifically pointed out to be strange and uncommon in relation to what the “Robin” mantle denotes, a level of trust which is simply not present.

But what am I getting at here? What does this distrust mean?

Well, if you ask me, it’s evidence that Robin, for Stephanie, was always intended by Bruce Wayne to be temporary. You don’t give sensitive information to temporary members, to the people who aren’t long term, who aren’t meant to stick around, who are going to be dropped, just like Bruce dropped her the first time.

This feels especially true given the fact that this sensitive information she is not told, in the case of catwomans secret ID and who Matches Malone is, isn’t particulary sensitive at all and the sort of information that it’s clearly expected a Robin should know. 

To me, the fact that all of that information is withheld from Steph, and especially the fact that she doesn’t get to know “The Secret” is indicative of the fact that she was always going to be fired as Robin, that she was always meant to be temporary.

Between the “skills and talent” reiteration, Alfred’s explicit reference to the idea that Batman was using Stephanie to lure Tim back, and the information which is withheld from Stephanie in direct contrast to every previous Robin, there is substantial evidence that Bruce Wayne always intended for Stephanie Brown to be a means to an end as Robin.

If we take Alfreds word, this temporariness is because Stephanie served as a cog in Bruce’s larger scheme to lure back Tim into the role of Robin.

Does this mean Batman though of her as temporary the entire time she was Robin? No. Does that mean he was doing this maliciously? Also no. Did he even know he was doing this distancing consciously? Hard to say. 

It also doesn’t mean he didn’t have sweet moments with Stephanie as Robin, it doesn’t mean he didn’t change his mind about using her to lure Tim back (if that was his plan at some point), and it doesn’t mean he never cared about her.

But I think it's entirely fair to say that at least some part of Bruce Wayne was just fine with using Stephanie the same way he did when he sanctioned her as Spoiler and then dropped her. That at least some part of Batman was retaining these excuses, keeping up those walls and secrets because at least some part of him knew she wasn’t supposed to last. That some part of him did this so that he would be able to get rid of her guilt free as soon as it became more beneficial for her to get gone.

[wesavegotham]

I don't know either what DC is going to do with Damian after Batman vs Robin/Lazarus Planet, but I'm a bit confused by some people acting like mostly baseless speculations by some fans are legit rumors about DC's plans for Damian.

I'm talking about "rumors" like "Damian will be a magic user and star in a new Justice League Dark book" because a possessed Damian is using magic items in Batman vs Robin or "DC will put Damian in a Batman and Robin book with Jace Fox" because DC promoted their new Dawn of DC initiative these images:

With Damian and Jace both on the cover for Batman's legacy.

I don't really see Damian as a magic user in BvsR/LP, at least not more than Batman or the other Robins. They are all using magic items, that doesn't make them proper magic users. So far there haven't been any hints towards Damian having or keeping any kind of special power the possession by Nezha might have granted him after he's free. DC literally only said that Damian will call other people for help to deal with Nezha and his son. Twice. The first time one of the people who will answer his call is the Monkey Prince who is the one teased to have a special role to play against Nezha and the second time Damian will call all of DC's magic users together to help set things right, but calling them for help or even coming up with a plan how they could use their powers to fix things does not mean Damian will become a magic character himself. In both cases I think what Damian's role will be is to give the other characters insight into who Nezha is and what his plans are. His part in the execution of any plans against Nezha and his son might turn out very limited.

As for Damian getting a team up book with Jace Fox, I think DC is simply still determined to keep Jace's Batman around and that's why they put both Damian and Jace on that legacy cover. Not because they plan to make Damian his Robin (didn't Jace's sister Tiffany take that spot already anyway?).

The solicitation for Batman vs Robin #5 (set after Lazarus Planet) reads this:

and no matter how this ends, I don't see why Damian or Bruce should reach the conclusion that Damian going to New York to either fight or join a new Batman who they barely know, but also isn't causing them any serious trouble, is the logical next step.

Waid said in an interview that Bruce having to face Damian like this would make him ask the question "was I the dad I needed to be?" and...look. This estrangement storyline has now heavily contributed to a powerful devil taking over the earth and causing everyone to transform through the fumes of the Lazarus volcano. If Bruce had been a better father we wouldn't be here. And unless DC plans to go one step further and Damian needs to end the universe first before Bruce answers the question "was I the dad I needed to be?" with a firm no, then all hope is lost anyway. The logical conclusion to this would be for Bruce to realize that the only way to be a good father is to actually put time and care into raising his child.

So putting them in a book together to rebuild their relationship and show that Bruce learned something from this catastrophe would make narrative sense. Of course that doesn't mean DC will do it. This is just my speculation.

For all I know Damian might also go "Oh no, I caused this, I need to go on a journey, alone, to reflect and atone, that will probably accidentally end in the erasure of time and space this time or something, while my father acts like I don't exist in his own books". But Tim has the Robin solo right now and Damian without the Robin mantle or the Robin name in the title would probably not make the book sell enough, so that might stop them.

[thevindicativevordan]

Since you wrote about Livewite recently, do you have any thoughts on Volcana, the other villainess introduced in STAS?

Other than "wow she's really hot and I like her design"?

I'm always wanting more women supporting characters in Superman's world, whether as heroines in their own right, civilians in key roles, or villainesses going up against him. Claire Selton is another character I really like that originated from the DCAU, and I am a bit bummed she never made the jump to the comics continuity like Livewire did, even if it's easier for me to understand why she didn't, than why it took so long for Livewire to do so. Volcana only appeared a handful of times, and mostly as a cameo outside her debut episode. Plus while I think electricity works fine as a force that can hurt Supes, fire is a much harder sell, especially since Superman walking through flames unharmed is such an iconic part of his imagery. Then there's also the difficulties with her characterization and background.

She actually works pretty great as his "Mr. Freeze" villain if we use her DCAU incarnation (which pretty shamelessly rips off of the Stephen King novel Firestarter now that I checked it out again). She was captured for her pyrokinesis powers by the shadowy Men in Black from Cadmus and was trained to be a government weapon. She busts out and escapes, but can't take care of herself other than using her powers for petty crime. Just like the obvious ending to DCAU Mr. Freeze is Batman funds a cure for Nora in exchange for Victor giving up his criminal career, the obvious ending for Volcana is that Superman intimidates the Cadmus thugs pursuing her into backing off or else, and then takes her somewhere she can live her life free of their influence. Preferably also somewhere she can get therapy and not just dropping her off on a tropical island like he did in the DCAU.

I'm sure the problem is obvious right away: you can't really use either one of those villains again without ruining what made them great to begin with can you? If you use Mr. Freeze again after Batman tells him to give up crime while Bruce Wayne funds a cure, Freeze isn't really sympathetic anymore, he's just an asshole using his tragedy as an excuse. Similarly with Volcana, if she's out killing and robbing people again, which is what happened with the DCAU version when she was brought back, it really detracts from her sympathy. The audience can only accept so much wrongdoing from a villain before their trauma doesn't excuse their actions anymore and they lose that sympathy.

What I Would Do With Volcana

So powers wise, *just* being a regular pyrokinetic isn't enough to keep you on Superman's level, we have to upgrade her powerset. Luckily there's already a character in a Superman related franchise who offers the perfect blueprint: Mano of the Fatal Five (he's the guy who blows shit up by touching it in the JL vs. FF animated movie if you need a refresher). Mano has an "anti-matter touch" that I would copy the basics of for Volcana. She doesn't just create "fires" she creates "anti-matter fires", and those can actually hurt Superman as a way to differentiate them from normal fires. This lets her be a threat to Superman because anti-matter can actually hurt Clark. I don't see any reason anti-matter wouldn't hurt him, he's still made of regular matter after all.

Adding on to that let's swipe a bunch of powers from other pyrokinetics elsewhere that I don't think Volcana had in the DCAU. So she can fly like the Human Torch and is of course immune to fire in all its forms (so Superman's heat vision doesn't work on her). If you really wanted to give her a boost she could cause anything to explode by superheating the atoms with her anti-matter, basically making her a walking nuke. I remember some firebenders in the Avatar universe being able to use their powers to heal (in Korra's time I think), so maybe give Volcana the ability to reconstruct her body from any source of fire? With all of that now she feels like a Superman-level threat in her own right.

So how do you keep her sympathetic while still allowing her to be used? Should she be kept sympathetic at all? Hot take but I don't think Freeze necessarily only works as a sympathetic bad guy (I watched The Batman cartoon's take on Freeze growing up though, so I'm not a DCAU diehard). I think Volcana likewise can work as a more sinister villainess.

If we're abandoning the sympathetic angle, then the route that seems the most obvious to me is that Claire actually really enjoyed her role as a weapon. She enjoys burning things down, whether that's buildings, or people, or civilization itself. She's a pyromaniac who gets a thrill out of using her powers, and doesn't want to stop. But she utterly loathes her government handlers for how they control her life, and there is nothing she wants more to do than to put every single one of them and their families to the torch. Volcana sees her role as the equivalent of a controlled burn, she burns away the old, the stagnant, and the rotten to make way for new forms of life.

To her, there's a clear parallel between what she does and what Superman does. Both of them act as cleansing forces, Superman purifies Metropolis of evil in the form of supercriminals, he was a force of change that ushered in the Age of Metahumans. Volcana sees herself as the next step in that Age, she burns down the structures and people that act as barriers to keep society from undergoing the rebirth she believes will rise from the ashes. Whether Superman is a part of that next step or someone she has to burn so a new hero of the new Age can come around to replace him is a position she's unsure of. Regardless, if he stands in her way she won't hesitate to fry him.

She's a foil for Clark then in terms of their wrath. Both are disgusted by the evils they see, and both think people can be inspired to change. Superman simply thinks its possible to inspire people to change the way things are without violence, while Volcana believes that's impossible. Some people need to be reduced to ash in order to build a better life, whether that's her government handlers, the group of supervillains who wouldn't follow her, or the corrupt politicians running Metropolis, or even Superman himself if he can't be made to see that truth. Clark channels his wrath towards constructive purposes while Volcana channels hers towards destructive ones.

If we want to keep the more sympathetic angle however, then I think there's still a way to do that while carrying over the basics of her DCAU origin. The big difference is that Volcana doesn't have control of her powers due to the mental trauma she endures as a result of her time with Cadmus. Periodically she will "flare up" even when she doesn't want to, and this hurts those around her who aren't wearing protection. The only safe place for her is STAR Labs where they are working on a way to control her powers and give her counseling, but because of her PTSD Volcana regularly attempts to escape. Living in a laboratory and being poked by scientists again, even though this time they're trying to help her is simply too much for Claire to endure. Regularly her temper explodes and she burns her way out (not killing anyone though). What happens next is always varied as Claire is constantly trying to gain her freedom while others exploit her for their own ends.

Superman thus has to constantly try to track her down and get her to go back to STAR Labs. Clark feels an enormous degree of sympathy for Claire, recognizing that it could've easily been him being trained as a weapon if someone less scrupulous than the Kents had found his rocket. He has a temper himself and understands the frustration Claire feels about her lot in life, while also appreciating the difficulty of constantly keeping your destructive powers under control. In that regard Volcana is a foil for Clark in regards to control: Clark has control of his powers and his life while Volcana has neither, something she envies and resents him for. Whenever she breaks out again, it's a reminder to Clark how few people truly get to take charge of their own destinies.

Probably more than you expected huh? Sorry I tend to get carried away a bit. TL;DR she's a neat character who could work well as an ongoing foe for Superman with a bit of work.