#british dialects

[tricornonthecob]

Dialect notes! Dialect notes! Dialect notes!

Because I missed my calling in academic research, I've spent a non-zero amount of time going down rabbit holes on early North American dialect for Along The Northern Heights. Is it worth doing all this research for a fanfiction of a PBS kids show from 20 years ago? Well it gives me considerable amounts of joy to write, so yes.

Anyway! I want to share a massive infodump, because writing gives me goodfeels and so does sharing! Please let me know if I am inaccurate or wrong about anything. I am not an academic and furthermore I do not want to spread misinformation.

MASSIVE WORD BLOCK UNDER THE CUT

A Pregame With Disclaimers About "Good" English

The history of Modern English is rife with Big Oof moments, and I'm not just talking about The Great Vowel Shift or Noah Webster deciding that the "u" in "colour" was silly. Especially in the late 18th century, there was a push to make accents more uniform and to establish a single "Good" English - and there is so much aggression towards what those scholars considered "Bad" English. And, in my extremely uneducated opinion, it seems like it's a conveniently moving target, just like "whiteness." In the context I'm in when writing, it positively reeks of shitting on any of the world's population groups that aren't Southeastern England. And, being from the United States, I know all too well the absolute shit that's been lobbed at AAVE for not being "Good" English.

This "Good" vs "Bad" way of looking at dialect is reductive, destructive, and boring, and I think it goes without saying I don't condone it in the slightest.

A Further Pregame With Received Pronunciation, or RP

the "generic" British dialect many of us outside the UK think of when we think of a British accent (a shame, I think, because the UK is so dialect-diverse and there are some absolute bangers on that damp island!) There are certainly a myriad of reasons for this, but probably the most common reasons/claims I've heard through my life are

A) 19th-century upper-class British folk wanting to have a more separate dialect from the other classes.

B) associations with the way the Royal Family has spoken English since at least Queen Victoria (a generic reasoning that we see happen along populations: imitating those in power)

C) 20th-century RP became "generic" in a similar way that the broad North American dialect* now associated with the United States and, to some degree, Canada, did - that is, it was further developed and use encouraged as the easiest to understand when recorded and played-back on period audio recording equipment (specifically radio and television.)

*a timeout is to be made here for the so-called Mid-Atlantic dialect at the dawn of "talkies" and early Hollywood. Its the delightful way of talking you'll hear in old black-and-white movies: slightly musical cadence, and combining the broad north american dialect with a bit of the non-rhoticity of RP. This dialect was mostly affectation and as anyone with living American relatives born before 1960 can tell you, mid-20th-century Americans largely did not speak it in normal settings.

Now, all of this is to say, RP as a dialect doesn't really appear until mid-19th century (although it would seem the loss of rhoticity we so associate with RP was a gradual shift starting in the very end of the 18th century.) Furthermore, the ways that we, 21st-century denizens, know RP don't come into their own until the 20th century and proliferation of audio-based mass media.

On to My Actual Point : 18th Century American Dialect (non-AAVE)*

*I make this distinction because the history of AAVE is a massive topic all on its own and I feel even less qualified to speak on it

It can't be ignored that the base strata making up Anglo-American speech patterns would have been as varied as where the original settlers/invaders came from, nor can it be ignored that the American Colonies were made up of more than just Anglo-Saxon descendants. Even back then, they were a mosaic of cultural interaction, which is why Thomas Paine declared America (at least the white part) a European, and not British, culture.

That being said, multiple primary sources indicate that the dialect of Anglo-Americans at the late 18th/very early 19th century was similar to "well-bred" Londoner dialect of the time (assuming there's enough of a distinction here from broad Southeastern UK,) and that this particular dialect was broadly spoken with less regional variance than the family of dialects in the UK.

This is made clear in vol 3 of Timothy Dwight's Travels in New-England and New-York, a collection of letters sent to colleagues in England:

"I shall not, I believe, offend against either truth or propriety if I say, that the English language is in this country pronounced more correctly than in England. I am not, indeed, sanguine enough to expect, that you will credit the assertion, nor that you will believe me to be a competent judge of the subject. Still I am satisfied that the assertion is true. That you may not mistake my meaning, I observe, that by a correct pronunciation I intend that of London; and, if you please, that of well-bred people in London."

(Dwight, Timothy. Travels in New-England and New-York vol 3 p 265)

Now in context he is only speaking of the New England region, and he does make a disclaimer here that he's not "a competent judge" of the subject, and we are certainly ignoring his hope that he won't be cited on the matter. But, his observation holds true from other primary accounts, especially William Eddis' Letters From America, which are composed of his observations (mostly of Maryland gentry) from 1769 to 1777. (His letters also happen to be an invaluable primary source for observations on culture and political commentary on the rising crisis between the colonies and Britain, from the perspective of a loyal well-to-do British subject.)

On the uniformity of language, Eddis has this to say:

"In England, almost every county is distinguished by a peculiar dialect; even different habits, and different modes of thinking, evidently discriminate inhabitants, whose local situation is not far remote; but in Maryland, and throughout the adjacent provinces, it is worthy of observation, that a striking similarity of speech universally prevails; and it is strictly true, that the pronounciation of the generality of the people has an accuracy and elegance, that cannot fail of gratifying the most judicious ear."

(Eddis, William. Letters from America, Historical and Descriptive. p 59)

if the odd comma placements are making it hard to read, you're not alone. 18th century writing is choc-full of what we might today consider run-on sentences, comma splices, or just generally cumbersome. Here's me paraphrasing as best I can:

"In England, almost every county has its own dialect, habits, and modes of thinking, noticeably different inhabitants that don't live very far from each other; but in Maryland and adjacent provinces, there is a notable similarity of speech, and its absolutely true that the generalized accent/pronunciation has an accuracy and elegance that won't fail to gratify a discerning ear."

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All this background I'm giving comes to this point: late 18th-century "well-bred" Londoner is the dialect I have chosen to loosely base what I write in Along The Northern Heights. I listen to alot of Simon Roper's work on youtube regarding the topic. I would say these two are probably the most valuable videos on the accent.

He makes disclaimers about not being formally qualified to speak on linguistics, and I would be remiss to not pass along those disclaimers.

That being said, what's in my mind is pastiche of that, the local "country" (read: appalachian) dialect in rural Virginia, the dialect work used in Turn:Washington's Spies and HBO John Adams, as well as some of the dialect you hear in PBS Masterpeice's Poldark, and various media I've watched/read from Living History re-enactors about reconstructing dialect.

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Since I've made it a headcanon feature that James Hiller has a bit of a brogue that he feels pressured to correct, but slips into when he is excited or upset, I'd like to dig more into less-"proper" dialects of the time, and, if possible, the less-proper Philly accent. For shits and giggles, here's what I suspect is a dramatization of a modern-day Philly accent:

And then a very similar, a very real Baltimore Baldmer accent:

Honestly? Hearing both of these warms the cockles of my heart, because my late grandparents (especially grandma. *Especially* grandma) spoke with a Baltimore accent, which has similarities with the Philly accent. My aunts and uncles all speak it; its been normalized and blended with a virginia rural accent in mine (I say wadder, my grandma said wooder. I say toosdaye, my grandma said toosdee. I say ahn, grandma said ooowan. I say y'all, grandma said all youse/all you. I say "d'jeet," she said d'jeet, and you can pull d'jeet from my cold dead hands.)

In addition, you have the modern-day "High Tide" dialect of Okracoke, the Carolina Brogue.

trouble with Carolina Brouge, which is disappearing, is that its got too much modern-day southeastern drawl to really use as a basis for an 18th century Philly boy. Though it does seem like drawing out the "A" in water into wooder/woader is a commonality.

Anyway. That's been my infodump. I spent too long on this!

[hookitall]

The main issues with this article are that it's WRONG!!

List of British words not widely used in the United States. Lists of words having different meanings in American and British English. List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom.

[acrowseye]

i'm conducting an experiment. everyone who's from an english speaking country state your country, regional area and what you call the following images. i need to see something

[spiced-wine-fic]

Also every native British and Irish language

[l0uterstella]

JUST REALIZED I NEVER POSTED THIS HERE nationality hcs :]

[thatsonehellofahabit]

silly little guys doing silly little things..

[mascara-pyjama]

My one compliant with Prodigy is that Zero said math.

They are British! They smoke fags behind Tesco! They won't drink tea made in a microwave! They eat beans on toast!

They'd say maths! They know it's a plural word, they know mathematics contains multitudes! They wouldn't say math!

[terezicaptor]

I like to imagine that the fed workers on quesadilla island have their own dialect of sign language that they created themselves over time. Cuz sign language is so different and is as varied as spoken language is and I think it would be really cool if there was like. Quesadilla Sign Language. or something

[jinxedshapeshifter]

I kinda love that even in the non voice acted dialogue, Ryunosuke still speaks with an obvious English accent/dialect, and he seems to be kinda just picking it up from the English people around him as a way of fitting in better. Just got him thinking "It was bothering me before, this was" which isn't phrasing I've ever heard from an American. It's very distinctly English phrasing to me.

This also actually implies a bit about his education, because it would indicate that his English teacher in Japan was from England.

[victusinveritas]

British English Dialects

[dykevanny]

I can make any main fnaf character a spanish speaker

[nostalgia-tblr]

british people problems: after spending your entire life referring to "the queen" in discussions of politcs and government and so on you now have to refer to "the monarch" because you don't want to misgender them but you also don't want to accept that we're probably stuck with male ones until we finally get rid of the cunts for a few generations.

[evorathesylvurr]

Heathcliff sees Ishmael picking them up and starts making fun of her, so they start their usual bickering.

Outis is observing Don and making her an example of what not to do. Pointedly ignoring Dante also falling for it.

"we dont know when we'll have sweets next" "Theyre bloody gumdrops. hell theyre blooming dots."

no this is definitely not my personal bias towards dots speaking. those things are as hard as a rock if they are exposed to air.

and then outis being like "don is so dumb for following the trail and unlike our executive mana-- EXECUTIVE MANAGER NO" is so true and funny.

[acrowseye]

part 2 of my experiment: what english-speaking country are you from, what region and what do you call the following images? if you don't know what the first image is please try to guess i'd love to see it

[tremolo-legato-suckas]

in my mind palace they are besties (also fran is there)

[culmaer]

I've been looking for various references to the Cape "snoek horn" (fishmonger's bugle) and came across a story/blog post written phonetically in Kaaps-Afrikaans dialect with English code mixing. certainly worth looking at for anyone interested in Afrikaans and Dutch, to get a sense of what the Cape Town dialect can look like. (the full post is on Jeremy Vearey's blogspot)

but my main reason for sharing, and with my sincere apologies @geschiedenis-en-talen, is the phonetic rendering of the final words of this paragraph :

As djy vannie Tiervlei se lane is en djy kennie vir Boetie Stinkvet tie dan is djy vaak gebore en het annieslaap grootgeword. As djy innie 80's van Tiekie-stage byrie hoek van Balvenie en Connaught verby Bataan se winkel straight orrie sandveld galoeppit dan kô kry djy die begin van dertiendelaan. Nou nerra oppai hoek, daa was Boetie Stinkvet se rooisink disco, smokkie, bioscope, restirant eksekera eksekera.

I stand by what I said, that Afr. "ensovoorts" / Eng. "and so forth" are more commonly said here, but I guess this is proof that this pronunciation does in fact exist at the Cape

with standardised spelling, but maintaining the dialect and code-mixing, the above paragraph would read :

As jy van die Tiervlei se lane is, en jy ken nie vir Boetie Stinkvet nie, dan is jy vaak gebore en het aan-die-slaap grootgeword. As jy in die 80's van Tiekie Stage by die hoek van Balvenie en Connaught verby Bataan se winkel straight oor die sandveld geloop het, dan kom kry jy die begin van Dertiendelaan. Nou net daar op daai hoek, daar was Boetie Stinkvet se rooi sink disco, smokkie [smokkelhuis], bioskoop, restaurant et cetera, et cetera.

English translation :

If you're from the streets of Tiervlei, and you don't know Boetie Stinkvet, then you were born tired and grew up asleep. Back in the 80's, if you walked from Tiekie Stage on the corner of Balvenie Avenue and Connaught Road past Bataan's shop, straight across the sand field, then you'd find yourself at the start of Thirteenth Avenue. Now, right there on that corner was Boetie Stinkvet's red sheetmetal disco, shebeen [speakeasy ?], movie hall, restaurant, et cetera, et cetera.