#body type representation

[yohanpalia]

fatness in palia

(its gonna sound like i hate palia bc ppl dont understand the concept of nuance, so just to be clear - i decently like the game so far. things can be both good and bad, and some ppl, like me, enjoy analysing and criticising things without hating on the things.)

it rly bugs me that the only properly fat character so far in Palia is someone whos obsessing about his sandwiches and talking about how he always makes sure to eat properly, and *also*, is someone in a position of power who does bad things (the quest where we grew crops for him is the most clear example ive seen so far). basically - the biggest fat man is a bad person who is obsessed with food.

delaila is big, but also falls into a stereotype - shes a countryside mom (often fat in media), and parent characters are generally easier for mainstream fatphobic media to design as fat bc theyre not intended to be attractive in the same way the younger characters are (or older men, see hodari and ashura). i also want to point out that she reads as having a little more of a curvy body type compared to kenli whos more of a big ball, and that none of the female characters read as having the same type of facial fat or double chin that kenli has (which is indeed why im calling him the only properly fat character). its almost as if that kind of facial/chin fat is considered worse on women than on men or something :)) wink wink.

ashura and sifuu are big, but read as "strong and muscular", not "a fat person". which any fat person will know is a significant difference in how you're perceived. (there is also an aspect here ofc of that irl, masculine-presenting "bulky and strong" ppl are often more positively perceived than feminine "bulky and strong" ppl, and that masculinity being seen as desirable in itself affects why "bulky and strong" is seen as desirable where "just fat" isnt, but this is a sidetrack rn.)

elouisa and caleri are... chubby, i guess? i was happy the first time i met caleri bc she had a visible double chin. but, after a bit of playing, seeing that there werent any fatter characters than this who were supposed to be seen as attractive or even good nice people, that enjoyment weighs little. i also again want to point out that both elouisa and caleri have very "smooth" faces, and mostly "conventionally attractive" features, essentially. they are chubby/curvy, but not in ways that would be considered *too* far off from the fatphobic, ageist, sexist beauty standards of society. they also have basically hourglass bodies.

the characters that we are mainly "supposed" to find attractive in this game - the romanceable ones - range from very skinny to "fit". there is even a romanceable skinny robot, notably not a romanceable fat robot (hekla is round, reads as the fat mom stereotype, and is not romanceable - einar is tall and slender and kinda built like a dorito, and, oh, presents more masculine... even robots arent free from misogynist and fatphobic design). there is also a non-romanceable character that apparently both characters in the game and many players find hot, which is a non-fat man, hodari. i note this bc he's presented as an attractive character, and is not fat.

its nice to see an older(?) female character presented as attractive - tamala, however she is very skinny and with an hourglass type build. this is still... nice, i guess, but in the context of the lack of "attractive characters" that arent really skinny, or muscular, or hourglass shaped.....

another related issue is that a very skinny character, jel.... literally says things like "i havent eaten for 3 days". wow! thats lovely! especially together with kenli obsessing over food! and together with an average size character, jina, also mentioning she forgets to eat. that made me feel gross to read, and i dont think its a good choice to put "lol forgetting to eat, relatable content" in the dialogue of characters who are very skinny. this can be a bad reinforcement of society's abuse ("just starve yourself and you'll be skinny and beautiful!") for people with eating disorders and for ppl who struggle with their weight and with their relation to food in general. but *especially* when the biggest character is, in contrast, talking about how hes obsessing over his sandwiches and whatever (and again - is a bad person and also not supposed to be attractive, while jel and jina are supposed to be attractive and romanceable). this is also obviously a reinforcement of prejudice against fat ppl - that fat ppl eat too much, cant control their eating, are always thinking about food, etc etc, while skinny ppl ~forgot to eat lol~.

all in all, if anyone reads this, i just hope ppl can acknowledge and be aware to the fatphobia that has gone into the design of this game, *just like basically every other game*. im not saying palia is worse than other games, bc frankly, most games are like this, and its gross and weird and i hate that. but its still valid to discuss that problem in the context of one game, without implying that its an issue that only affects that game.

i hope that at the very least, they will eventually add in more body types to the character creator that also represent bigger people, and that potentially, we might see some attractive fat characters as npcs in the future. and no, their faces dont need to be slimmed down compared to their bodies to be attractive! they can have unsmooth faces and double chins and wrinkles and still be attractive! and they can have all that and not be men, and be attractive! and they dont need to have hourglass bodies nor to be muscular and strong to be attractive, either!

[burr-ell]

I'll preface this by saying that I don't by any means begrudge anyone their own personal headcanons or interpretations, but I kinda have to get it off my chest that I'm personally not very comfortable with significant deviations from canon character design on CR, and I really tend to side-eye people who have declared their fanart to be "better".

And sure, some of that is because i'm a cranky old bastard. But some of that is that I also have an animation degree and have studied character design. Creators generally give artists a fair amount of input as to how they want their designs to connote the characters' personalities—not just in terms of clothing or hairstyle, but in the overall shape of the silhouettes and body structures. And in the case of CR in particular, that's coming from a place of much closer familiarity with the characters because the creator is actually going to be embodying them for a fairly long period of time, so when the fan response is heavy deviation from that, I think it can feed into some unhealthy fanon perceptions and projections.

Like, for example, it's not so much that I think fanartists are "disrespecting the creators" or whatever when they keep giving Imogen a sweet little round face and big hips/breasts and cute circular glasses, but I've also studied shape language in art. You're communicating something when you design her this way; if a character's silhouette has a lot of circles, visually that connotes being friendly, sweet, and cute. The person who first suggested drawing her with glasses explicitly said they thought it would look cute—and no shade to them! They can like whatever they want!

But canonically, Imogen is a woman in her 20s who's been dealing with unanswered questions, abandonment, loneliness, and sheer exhaustion from trying to hold back and control powers that she never asked for—and who simultaneously uses those powers even when it isn't necessary if she thinks it'll help her achieve a goal or prove a point. She isn't unfriendly, and she wants to do the right thing, but she's also someone who's consciously chosen to keep to herself for most of her life, and yet simultaneously she's quite adept at persuading and deceiving people. I think we're meant to pick up that sense of world-weariness and cynicism from her angular facial features and thin frame. That's...kind of just how character design works.

I think the trend of disregarding the official art and giving her softer features has had an impact on the perception of Imogen as a character. I see a lot of views of her that really remove a lot of her agency, treating her like she's only ever been a victim of circumstance who's never put a foot wrong. Some fans got pushback for pointing out that it really wasn't cool for Imogen to openly contemplate whether or not the Ruby Vanguard might be right in front of three people who were killed by Otohan, insisting that imogen was just dealing with a lot right then. And yes, she was, but that doesn't mean that the way she was dealing with it doesn't say something about her as a character. I don't know if I'd call it coddling, necessarily (even though perhaps there are some very coddling takes I just haven't seen), but there seems to be some resistance, in some circles, to the idea that Imogen isn't a put-upon martyr. And in those same circles, round friendly-looking glasses-wearing Imogen abounds, to the point of editing the official art itself to "fix it".

Truth be told I'd be willing to bet that the rounder cuter Imogen actually came about because of the initial impression of her, given how much fanon at the start of c3 revolved around poor baby Imogen with her scary nightmares needing the wiser, worldlier Laudna to comfort her and kiss it better, but those visuals also proliferated rather quickly and well beyond past the point where that fanon was feasible anymore, and I think both aspects of that fanon ended up informing each other. It's not lost on me that the rounder and cuter-looking Imogen performs the literal function of sanding down her harder edges.

And like I said, I'm not here to be needlessly negative toward what other people want to do. If you want to draw the characters differently to their official art, I don't think either the cast or the artist are especially offended by it. But I personally dislike it, in part because I think some of these trends are a way for fans to claim a certain amount of ownership over the characters, whether they intend it or not. And the ultimate outcome of that is that when creators inevitably assert their ownership over a deeply personal story in a way that fans don't like, the backlash is much stronger than it reasonably should be, which is something I think the CR fandom has seen often enough not to continue doing as often as it does.

[moons-of-dewclan]

haunted bc FAAACK I FORGOT TO ADD ON THE UPDATED CLAN ART- Lyre’s supposed to be drawn with a noticeable primordial pouch after the kids. he stores all his secrets in there

i will add when i wake up tomorrow

[blueskittlesart]

i’m so used to how you draw zelda that whenever i see someone else draw her it’s literally like. skinny person jumpscare.

literally being a fat zelda truther is so hard bc why do people insist on drawing the girl like she's never had a meal in her life. put some meat on her bones please god she is starving

[basilbots]

I love how body positive you draw ur character

They so sweet and squishy

Tysm! It makes me so happy seeing people enjoy my redesigns giving them a different body type

[yurishica]

It's June. You know what it means

[doppy-enjo]

Mentally I'm still in the season for summer

[thefloatingstone]

Not to vague post (because it's not that serious), but I'm seeing posts on my dash doing that thing where they denounce something while actively doing the exact same thing they are denouncing.

"You see, these blanket people only see other human beings as copies of the exact same kind of person and can't understand individualism exists. All blanket people think this btw."

I just saw some people argue how a fat character becoming thin as a sign of personal growth is always fatphobic and is lazy writing. When the other people pointed out that it shows applied effort to become fit the person saying it was fatphobic said "Not all bodies are the same!!!" which then makes ME raise the question "so why do you think every fat character is more inclined to being fat and there are no characters at all whose physical state is an indicator of their applied effort? Why are you saying ALL fat characters are just like you?"

It's just always.... well not interesting or fascinating or anything.... but it certainly is a thing I notice where someone says "thing is bad" while literally doing the thing they say is bad within the very same post.

[cultpastorkevin]

Idk when a ton of people say “hey can we have more variety for character body types” your response shouldn’t be “well don’t try to limit my creativity!!!” cuz ngl you’re the one limiting your own creativity if you’ll only draw one body type forever; nobody is telling you personally that your art sucks; they’re fucking saying that representation matters and it would be nice to see something else in general and to expand the creation pool; maybe you need to address why you’re so fucking gung ho about how it’s a constitutional right for a character needing to look like a delicate twink in every art piece

If you know, you know 🤷🏻‍♂️

[yardsards]

"he would not fucking say that" but it's "she would not fucking have an hourglass figure and big perky tits"

[twpsyn-who]

This is going to be my last Eurovision guys. It was nice being part of this fandom for so long (only 2 or 3 years on tumblr, but much more IRL), but to me Eurovision died this year.

Croatia, Netherlands, Ireland - you guys are my winners too, together with Switzerland. Thank you for making this Eurovision something worth watching.

And thank to Switzerland, Ireland and Lithuania (and anyone I might've missed) for showing the nonbinary flag and for giving us the nb representation we need. It was huge, especially for me, to find out not only one artist but TWO were nonbinary.

It was a shitty year with an even shittier Eurovision, but the little things like this made it worth paying some attention to it.

Love you all

[yohanpalia]

so here's a longer take than me just being sarcastic in replies to ppl who dont actually explain any of their argument despite them feeling bothered enough by my post to reply.

the summarised topic of my long post they replied to is: there isnt currently good representation of fat or chubby body types anywhere in palia - the only really big round fat man is pretty much a bad guy and obsessed with food, which isnt very pleasant representation. there are no romanceable characters who arent very skinny or fit (theres 9 romanceable charas). palia is bad at fatness, and so is almost every other game, and this is constructive criticism about that. (read the long post itself for more background, info and clarity!)

palia being in open beta has nothing to do with its character design re: fatness. it doesnt take more effort to design and add a fat npc than to design a skinny or muscular npc, so there's no reason to "put off" adding more fat characters until later development stages - not when they clearly designed all charas individually already until now (they don't have the same body types as each other, same face shapes as each other, same animations, etc - they're all unique already).

the fact that the charas are already wildly different from each other is the exact reason i wrote my long post. bc it wouldve been just as easy as anything else to add in an attractive fat or chubby character who is romanceable! and they actively chose not to (the 9 romanceable charas are between very skinny to fit). or to add in fat or chubby npcs that arent stereotypical (someones mom, a bad person, obsessed with food, selfish/greedy, etc).

so it being in open beta is not a rational argument for this specific game, since it already has a diverse cast with diverse designs.

how about "palia is a videogame"?

besides the obvious point that it being a game doesnt make it any different than other media in regards to harmful stereotypes and harmful social structures etc, you can see that the palia devs already took care to create somewhat diverse characters.

they cared to create charas that have different facial traits, different body types, different hair types, etc. they actively chose to create a diverse cast - but didnt include chubby and fat people in that cast in any other roles than "not meant to be attractive".

this is the problem and this is why i talk about it. there need to be romanceable fat/chubby characters, even just *one* would be better than nothing among than the current 9 (!!!) romanceable charas that are all skinny or fit. ideally we should see bigger variety than just "9 skinny/fit ones and one fat", though.

the non-romanceable npcs should also feature chubby and fat characters that dont fall into basic "its someones mom" stereotypes or harmful stereotypes (food obsessed, lazy) etc etc. there should be a charming and attractive fat character who isnt shady or bad or selfish, an intelligent and friendly one, or an angsty creative one, i dont care! the point is they need to be interesting people and potentially attractive the same way the skinny and fit characters are created. and they shouldnt just be "someone's parent" for fucks sake.

palia failing at fatness rn, doesnt mean that the devs wont add more fat or chubby characters in the future. they might. we dont know that. they might not. thats why its necessary to voice and discuss topics like this so that people are aware to the issue and can constructively criticise it.

[heartsofhounds]

i’m sure you see me going insane in the tags BUT i had to pop into the inbox to tell you that i am so in love with your angel and davey designs, they mean the absolute world to me. it’s like you plucked their little faces right out of my brain and it brings me so much joy to see them!! thank you for sharing your insane talent with the world <3<3<3 sending you all the best vibes <3<3<3

Hey, sweetpea! Thank u so so much, im also so in love with them :))

and yes! i have seen u in the tags and it makes me smile so much aaaaa.. in response to ur comments on that one sketch i did of these two a few weeks back, there is a lot of love i put into drawing “non-standard” body types, cause they simply don’t get enough love, or attention or representation. Especially as someone living in a fat body, it means a lot to see bodies similar to mine represented as beautiful and even desirable. So yknow (without getting too into body politics and whatever for now) in putting out that content, id hope to help other people develop healthier relationships with their own bodies 💙

[mysticdragon3md3]

Delicious in Dungeon - Fundamentals of Character Design by lines in motion

[lunalivvy]

MOURNING THE ABBY WE COULD’VE HAD </3

((THE MIDDLE AND BOTTOM LEFT PIC HELLO ??))

[avoteforme]