#blame the duffers

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

Some Bylers need to think inside the box with what Stranger Things has done with the romantic relationships.

What do I mean by this?

None of the characters that have been involved in romantic relationships had a "Oh" moment where they realized they liked someone. I never saw anyone having an "Aha!" moment either.

There is nothing wrong with having theories and predictions, but I feel like a lot of Bylers want the show to treat Mike and Will in this super unique way and hope for The Duffers to use certain romantic tropes that romantic shows use, but at the same time want Byler to be treated like any other couple.

Again, everyone is able to have their headcanons but I'm seeing people here taking them seriously.

I mean, Stranger Things have never used super romantic and over the top gestures (unless you count Mike's monologue as one and look at how that went).

So, please be aware that while we have many many incredible theories, a lot of those won't be true and managing our expectations is the most important thing, cause it protects us.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

Agreed.

The plot that suffered the most in ST4 was, in my opinion, the Cali gang.

Why couldn't we see a bit more of The Byers + El + Argyle?

You also had 3 major main characters, Mike, Will and Jonathan, with so little screen-time in that last season that it left me wanting so much more!

I feel like the Duffers lean on fanservice way too much despite saying that they do not do fanservice.

They reduced Byers' family screen time on the show to give that screen time to other characters like Steve and Dustin because the audience finds them funnier and meme-able. They lean onto Steve and Dustin's comedic duo scenes and moments and that resulted in their ignoring other characters. They tried to pair up Steve and Dustin more after S2 because the audience said they were funny together, but that resulted in Dustin being separated from the Party for most of his screen time duration, as a consequence, this resulted in decreasing the Party dynamics and Dustin's other important relationships with characters like Lucas and other Party members. The audience thought Joyce was too caring as a mother, so her bond with Will was reduced and Joyce was made to be around characters like Hopper much more and she had no real screen time moments with Jonathan and Will after S2. Jonathan's character moments got reduced in favor of other characters like Steve. They still lean on the unnecessary Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle because the audience feels sorry for Steve, so they keep coming back to the ship baiting. They cannot kill Steve as a character because they do not want to and they do not want to anger the fans, so they created Eddie and killed him off, but then they did not expect to see the fans be attached to Eddie this much and the backlash came from that. So I just wonder if they're gonna pull a fanservice situation with Eddie in the next season. They keep giving unnecessary screen time to minor or background characters while totally neglecting some of their main cast because the fans find characters like Enzo, Yuri or other minor characters funny. They destroyed so many dynamics on the show in favor of fanservices, memeable moments and audience wishes. I could keep going but these are the things that come to my mind right now.

Oof I agree with all of this—I mean that’s what they did and it def is fanservice no matter what they say lol.

Also I think the point about cutting Dustin off from the party not making the most sense is really true. They also used Steve and Dustin as a meme “brother” relationship over the less memeable Jonathan and Will.

[psychotic-nonsense]

NOW WITH A PART 2 AND PART 3 !!!!

Not sure if this is anything, and feel free to critique or add on or clarify and all that, but...

A few weeks post-Starcourt Steve, absolutely wrecked by the Russians and Billy. He's healing, little by little, but he knows he needs to put his pain aside to help out The Party. Especially Robin, who has not been coping with the trauma well. She's taken to spending the night at Steve's most of the time, and they help each other manage. She's not the best with physical comfort, nor is Steve with verbal comfort, but they're managing.

Yet despite the constant offers of help, Steve always refuses to "ask for too much" and often downplays his pain, forcing a smile to keep anyone from worrying. He's bottling up everything - probably handling it worse than Robin, even though he insists he's used to it and knows how to fix himself. Every day he gets a little worse, and every night he brushes off help.

It's during one of these late nights that disaster finds them again. It's Steve and Robin in his living room, and they're just about falling asleep on the couch when the ground begins rumbling, hard. An earthquake, shaking Hawkins and getting the entire Party in a frenzy. The radios are blaring with the kids' voices and Steve's trying to get Robin to stop screaming into the walkie, when suddenly there's a hole opening up in Steve's living room, and the earthquake stops. Steve and Robin go quiet, and the kids are urging for a response as they all rush to meet up at Steve's.

But he and Robin can't speak, too busy staring at the hole. One that looks way too similar to the Gates... but it glows blue instead of the usual red. Steve, ever the protector, is carefully stepping around the hole to grab a fire poker for defense. The second he does, the Party bursts in, just in time to watch the hole suddenly crack open further, sucking Steve in and closing itself behind him-

As Steve Harrington lands in the bedroom of Post-ST3-release 2019 Eddie Munson.

Eddie's living rough, bunking in his childhood friend Ronnie's basement. An orphan, can't hold a job, in his second senior year of high school purely because he knows he has nothing else to do after it. His only source of comfort so far has been DnD - either the DM hosting he does at the local library for the other poor lost suckers, or the one Netflix show with its elements that has captured his heart.

Eddie's a pretty big Stranger Things fan - it has its faults but is otherwise a really fun and interesting show - but ever since ST2, he's especially been a Steve Harrington fan. He feels like he goes mad just thinking about the implications of what that man has gone through, what all those kids have been through, and how Steve has put aside himself to focus on the kids. How much Steve has changed, and how under appreciated he is.

Since binging all of ST3 the day it released, Eddie's had a field day on breaking down this newest reformation of Steve. He adores Robin - clocked her as a lesbian from episode 1 - and loves that Dustin and Erica have been bringing out his bitchy side, while still keeping him in check. The Russian torture and strange parallels with Billy have made him cry on more than one occasion, and Steve's half-high speech in the bathroom legitimately felt like Steve finally acknowledging his change, even if for but a moment.

Ronnie's teased Eddie way too much about his "obvious crush on Joe Keery" but this feels way too personal for him to just be crushing on an actor. This is Eddie falling for the Fallen King of Hawkins himself, and it's much more embarrassing. Steve Harrington becomes his muse in every form of art; drawing, writing, character inspiration and improvisation. The Duffer brothers aren't the greatest at the rest of the show, but they've damn well got this guy down.

Hell, Eddie was halfway to crossing the last personal barrier to outright obsession (x Reader fanfiction) when the earthquake hit. In hindsight it wasn't the worst thing in the world, but Eddie had never experienced one before. He immediately dove right under his bed, covering his ears and curling up in a ball like a coward ("Nancy Wheeler would be ashamed," his weird ass brain supplies). He hears rumbling, things falling over, wood splintering and the world seemingly cracking apart all around him-

When a body suddenly lands hard on his bed with a loud scream of fear, cutting off as the whatever it is rolls straight off to the floor, and the world gives one final strain before going completely silent.

Terrified, Eddie's eyes are shut tight, cowering as the body on the floor just a foot away from him groans and gasps for air. It takes a sudden hiss of pain for Eddie to finally, carefully, crack one eye open.

Only to come eye to eye, through the gaps of his bedsheets, with the very muse he'd just been thinking of. Steve Harrington.

There's an immediate scramble of panic; Eddie bashing his skull into his bed frame trying to get out and away from the obvious hallucination, while Steve wobbles on his feet to defend himself against this strange humanoid Upside Down monster.

"What are you?! Where am I?!"

"What am- Are- You- No, you're not real- JESUS H. CHRIST MAN, GET THAT AWAY FROM ME!"

"I don't know what you're talking about, but you're gonna see how real this is if you don't tell me what's going on!"

"You think I know?! You fell into my room!!"

"Yeah, from your Gate!!"

"WHAT FUCKING GATE- WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?"

"I DON'T FUCKING KNOW!!"

That gets them both to shut up, just staring at each other. Eddie pressed up against the wall in fear with his hands up and out wide, Steve with the fire poker pointed straight at his neck and his hand held up cautiously. Eddie sees it, smells blood in the air, and ignoring everything, reaches out for it. Steve jabs at the air with the poker, but it's halfhearted, his energy clearly draining, too exhausted with the whole situation to try much further. Finally his arm drops, but Eddie doesn't move, watching Steve's face crumple in a way that aches everything inside his heart.

"Where am I...?" Steve pleas, tone just as desperate as the one from the Russian bunker, even when lacking its power.

Eddie fumbles for the words, but eventually just sighs. "Somewhere you wouldn't believe, my friend."

High and complacent on adrenaline and shock, Steve and Eddie just move in silence. Eddie grabs a wet cloth to clean the blood, Steve cutting off a bit of his sweatpants to use as gauze. It's just a gash from falling with the fire poker, nothing drastic, but the two stare at the cut in Steve's palm, easier to see than the one who's hand is on theirs.

Introductions are exchanged when they can finally stop shaking, and Eddie somehow drops the bomb on where and when Steve is, and what his entire existence is to this reality. Steve has a very brief existential panic attack about it, but is strangely comforted by Eddie's confidence about it all - "Even without El's powers, those kids are smart as hell. They'll figure out a way to make their own Gate and get you back home."

Then Steve just spends the next week or two in a reality almost 40 years in the future, where he and his entire existence is a sci-fi TV show. Some funny exchanges I've been thinking of:

Steve: Wait, so we're characters in a show, right? That means we have actors.

Eddie: Oh, uh, yeah, you do...

Steve: ...Think I could see them?

Eddie: Uh- Sure, I guess? Not sure what you're expecting, it's a live action thing, they look just like you.

Steve: Never getting used to your future phone... Huh, Joe Keery? Looks like a cool guy- woah, is that what my hair looks like short??

Eddie: Yup, again, literally just you.

Steve: Funny how we both have the most basic names too. Steve and Joe? Like, look at Dustin's actor, what kind of name is Gaten?

Eddie: Rude, the guy plays your little brother.

Steve: Quit bringing your fake show theories into my actual life.

Eddie: It's true though.

Steve: ...Yeah.

----------------

(Steve goes crazy after a few days of being locked in, and begs Eddie to take him out to "see the future." While they're walking around town, a group of girls suddenly freak out and rush them)

"It's Joe Keery! Guys, look it's Steve Harrington, from Stranger Things!!"

(Eddie's halfway to panicking, but Steve immediately handles the situation)

Steve: Sorry to disappoint, ladies, not him. Don't worry though, I've been getting that a lot since the show came out.

"Oh God, I'm so sorry! Hope we didn't make you uncomfortable, mister..."

Steve: Mark, and not at all! I get asked this a lot too, but do you girls want a picture? For bragging rights, getting to meet "The Steve Harrington?"

(They agree, Eddie takes it for them, the girls go on their way)

Eddie whispering: That's gonna be everywhere in 5 seconds, I hope you know.

Steve whispering: Eh, it's a crowd my actor didn't have to deal with. Besides, felt pretty good.

Eddie: Familiar experience?

Steve: For a better reason.

-------------

Steve, showing Eddie's laptop screen open to the FunkoPop website and the Scoops Duo, halfway to tears: They make figurines of me and Robin?

Eddie: Yeah, of all you guys. I've got a little Dustin on my desk.

Steve, beginning to cry from how adorable he finds it: YOU DO?

---------------

(Ronnie comes back from work early while Steve and Eddie are talking in the living room. Eddie freezes as Steve makes eye contact, and Ronnie just stares)

Ronnie: Um, hi?

Steve: Oh, hey! You must be Eddie's roommate, nice to finally meet you! I'm Mark.

(That allows a breath to finally enter and escape Eddie's throat in a bit of a laugh. Steve's really leaning into this Mark persona)

Ronnie: Ronnie, and likewise... Sorry if I'm acting weird, you're just a really good cosplayer. Thought you were actually Steve for a second.

Steve hesitantly: Nah, just a doppleganger.

Ronnie, shrugging and walking away: Well okay then, I'm way too tired to talk much more. Eds, just keep your nerd shit out of the sink-

Eddie: And stay quiet, yeah yeah, go rest, breadwinner.

(Ronnie goes upstairs, out of earshot)

Steve whispering: What's a cosplayer?

Eddie, suddenly also very tired: Tell you later.

I'm thinking that Eddie had sketchbooks, notebooks, and Word Docs absolutely stuffed full of ST character evaluation, which he immediately hid upon Steve's arrival. Maybe Steve gets bored when Eddie's out for whatever reason, and snoops around. That's when he finds it all crammed at the back of Eddie's closet. The kids, Nancy, Jonathan, Robin, Joyce, Hopper, hell Billy and Murray are in the pile. Drawings of them in their adventures, active and mundane alike. Pages upon pages of character description, Eddie's handwriting gushing about the parts of the show and characters he loves, hates, wishes was fixed, all of it.

But the part that gets Steve is one specific sketchbook and notebook, both dubbed the Steven Soliloquy. It's the same type of information as before, but only about him, and it's filled to the brim. Eddie talking about his development, his change of heart, the complete shift that Nancy and the Upside Down and the kids allowed him to have. The affects of his trauma, and how much he stuffed it down in favor of everyone else. Talked about his relationships, ones he cherishes, loathes, never thought of or never got the chance to make. Talked about "AUs," alternative realities where he got everything he ever wanted. Eddie's words, his sketches, devolve into adoration-fueled envy, wishing he could be near such an amazing man, that he was strong enough to be such an amazing man. How much his heart aches for Steve.

And if this were a normal situation, Steve would be uncomfortable, creeped out. But knowing the context of it all, Steve can't help but be enamored. That his family's journey, his entire story of survival - even when fictional to Eddie - is so valued makes it all feel a little more worth it. That there was someone out there during all of their terror, rooting for their victory, crying with their pain, screaming with their fears, understanding them because he lived through it all right beside them.

Eddie finds Steve in his room later that day, surrounded by those books. Staring at what Eddie considers his WIP magnum opus; a half-finished colored pencil recreation of the Last Supper with the entire Party, including all of the people they lost, happy and healthy. Eddie's two seconds from apologizing for how creepy it all must be - seeing how many of those books are open - but then he sees the tears in Steve's eyes. Gratitude and adoration and care, all bundled up and very suddenly staring right at him with the widest smile he's seen.

They talk about it. Eddie finally admits his minor obsession with the show, and how much they've helped him come to terms with being a self-dubbed loser. He honestly gushes way too much about what he owes to them about his life, but Steve listens to it all with complete adoration. At the end of it, Steve asks Eddie about the possibility that they've been adamantly ignoring for Steve's entire stay: actually watching Stranger Things.

And that's how they spend their last week. Starting from season 1, they sit in the living room and binge the entire thing. Steve learns an entirely new perspective about his family's adventures, not only from the show's canon, but from Eddie's theories and rants in between monumental moments. Eddie holds his hand during the scenes that focus on his worst nightmares; the Demogorgan in the Byler home, the breakup, his fight with Billy, the Russians. Steve provides his perspective on how he felt during it all, finally admitting to the pain he's gone through instead of just focusing on the others hoping it'll all go away.

Not sure where exactly it goes from here. Maybe some codependency grows between them. Maybe Steve falls a little in love. Maybe they just stay friends, the only ones who understand each other aside from their Platonic Soulmates.

Maybe, when another earthquake finally hits, opening up a Gate in Ronnie's backyard, Steve and Eddie finally must go their separate ways. Eddie promising to keep watching over them from across the realm, Steve promising to make a happy ending for their story.

Or maybe, Steve can't help but see what little Eddie has, how special Eddie actually is, and offer to bring him along. Into the very show he loves so much. Maybe Eddie convinces Ronnie that he'll be okay, swearing to be entertaining should he join the show in an important way, and making her swear that if he doesn't survive to bring him back in as much fanfiction as she can write. Maybe Eddie enters Hawkins, Indiana, and becomes a bit self aware about being in a TV show. It takes a while for everyone to warm up to the future man - and for Eddie to get used to Midwestern US in the 80s - but he becomes a close member of the Party quite easily. Maybe his involvement in season 4, his death, is avoided, and maybe it's not.

But his adoration for Steve Harrington never goes away. Not in canon, or in fiction.

[a-shade-of-green]

stranger things as textposts pt. 5

NOOOO THE SHIELDS ARE UP AGAIN WE ARE AT WAR enjoy some memes in the trenches boys

cant stop wont stop

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

@willel thank you for replying, I really appreciate it.

It's such a shame for Jonathan as a character cause they are wasting Charlie's talent. They are also wasting Joe's cause they could've written something way better for Steve...

Dustin and Steve's dynamic having such a big focus is also a product of Shawn Levi's preferences cause he has mentioned in many interviews how they want the audience to "feel sorry for Steve" and it's very evident how they prioritize him over many things.

Lastly, I didn't know people complained that "Season 2 is too much like Season 1". It is so different, with the exception of Will and El swapping places. You can tell that The Duffers can't win, cause then you have people saying that Season 3 is way too different or that it deviated way too much from the show's essence or that is th worst season. So I'll give that one to The Duffers for doing whatever the hell they want with their show. I don't blame them in that aspect.

Season 2 was the last season where I felt that I was actually watching an ensemble cast (although some cracks were starting to be seen) as opposed to these last two seasons though.

But it must have been hard to keep the show interesting while thinking of what the audience wants. We still don't have the full picture, but they have the power to make it or break it.

Hopefully they make it.

@tal-vez-o-quizas replied to your post “When you really think about it, if Stranger Things...”:

Hmm, then what does this mean for the characters and their arcs? How does this affect all our theories for everything?

​I think most of the damage has already been done. You can see the damage for characters like Jonathan. The heavy emphasis on Dustin and Steve and almost complete lack of interactions with the party.

Little things that might've had a through line before were left on the brains of a writer who is no longer around.

The big overarching character arcs might still be there (except for Jonathan's who they constantly seem to forget), but I think all the smaller things got left behind.

Another one I think people forget about is the relationship between Lucas and Dustin. I feel like before they had their own special friendship in season 1 and 2 that has yet to make a reassurance really. It did for a brief moment when they were being silly while interrogated on the couch and whispering in the kitchen, but that's kinda it.

So I'm not necessarily saying all the big stuff got washed away with new seasons, but I feel the people who have known these characters and their relationships from the beginning would've done a better job keeping them together.

Then again, the general audience complained season 2 was too much like season 1, so maybe that's why they decided to "start fresh" and cycle through new writers every season since then. To "keep it fresh"

[chirpsythismorning]

Joyce staying at the cabin with Hopper and El to keep them safe bc no one in Hawkins knows they’re alive. Will, Jonathan and Argyle staying at the Wheeler's bc they have more room and presumably aren't in danger like the others.

OH WAIT there's a witch hunt for the Hellfire club, which means all the boys are in danger from the townspeople. OH WAIT the boy who came back to life has returned from the West, the same boy whose assumed death jumpstarted this small town's curse in the first place! The same boy who apparently everyone and their fathers knew was gay...

THE END IS NEAR! THE GAYS ARE RESPONSIBLE!

+ Time jump early somewhere in between.

Now picture how that would look in an 8 episode story format, leading up to a final battle lasting about 2+ hrs, and that's loosely how s5 is gonna go down.

[starry-eyed-steve]

Max taking the risk in season 2 is the reason she survived so long, and it will (hopefully) be the reason she gets saved in season 5.

I love the angsty lumax scenes comparisons/parallels like every other person, but it's not true that Max getting involved led to her being in a coma in s4. I think people want an angsty Lucas arc for the last season where he blames himself for everything, but I need someone to reassure him it's not because he got Max involved in s2. I believe his guilt will mostly stem from him not being able to stop Jason in time, letting Max go through with the half-baked plan and, in general, letting Max isolate in the months leading up to Vecna. (Which is already enough. Someone needs to give him a hug in s5)

Max being part of the group by accepting the risk, actually saved her life in multiple ways.

In s3, the chance of her dying due to Billy would have been significantly higher than it actually was. Billy would have gotten possessed either way. It was Karen's fault, not Max or the party, that he was at the wrong place at the right time. If Max hadn't known about the Mindflayer or El, she wouldn't have suspected anything, thus making her an easy target to get flayed as well.

If she were to survive s3 on her own, Vecna would have still targeted her because she felt guilty about Billy dying not because she witnessed it but because she wished that something would happen to him to make the abuse she suffered from him stop. And when something did happen, she blamed herself. Her complicated relationship with Billy is the reason why she got cursed. It was never because she took the risk. Her issues stem from outside of the supernatural things. Without Lucas and her friends, she wouldn't have survived the first attack. She would have been confused like Chrissy, Patrick, and Fred, not knowing what was going on and then dying a horrific death.

Taking the risk ensured her to live as long as she did because she had the opportunity to get information that were vitol for her physical well-being.

But taking the risk also gave her the opportunity to live a more fulfilled life. In the beginning of s2, Max was super closed off. She was scared to get close to anyone because of her brother. He was threatening to harm people if Max disobeyed him (aka him trying to run the party over as a scare tatic to get her back under control after the argument). So she pushed Dustin and Lucas away. It was easier and safer for everyone involved. If we take Runaway Max as canon, then Billy actually physically harmed one of her friends, so it's understandable that Max tries her hardest to stay away in the beginning. Only due to Lucas and Dustin constant persuading and pushing she opened up a bit more. And then when Lucas told her the huge secret she was suddenly a part of something so big she had to allow herself to trust others because her life was dependent on it. It gave her the opportunity to be honest and vulnerable to an outsider, which also then led her to free herself from her brother's control by the end of s2. Meeting Steve and the rest and seeing that someone was willing to protect her from her brother's abuse gave her the strength to set boundaries, which then allowed her to be happier and more open. She met El and found amazing friends in the party, which she wouldn't be close otherwise. It also allowed her to have a different relationship with Billy. In s3, they seemed to be more relaxed before everything went south.

Without getting involved, she probably would still be the closed off girl she was at the beginning of s2. She would still be under Billy's control until he died. And then she would be alone without anyone really looking out for her, which would lead to her definite death in s4.

Lucas saved her physically and emotionally by giving her the opportunity to take the risk. And because of that, she can still be saved in s5.

[henrysglock]

I'm thinking about it again, so I'm just gonna say it now and get it out of the way: If 001 had been Henrietta Creel, a tall, lean, polite and gentle "All-American" beauty. If she, as a child, had been dolled up all prim and proper in a little pink dress like El's from Season 1 while she played with her spiders. If she had snapped and ranted about social performance, about unattainable, unfair standards she doesn't think she should have to obey, about how her mother despised her, about reproduction and abuse, about how she was kidnapped by a doctor and experimented on to produce a line of super-powered children.

There would be no end to the essays and think-pieces about how tragic her story is, how horribly she was abused, how much of a victim she was, how her girlhood was stolen from her, how she deserved better, how she was really a good girl who finally snapped, and really, who can blame her? (not to mention the #girlboss, female rage, "good for her" posting...unironically...)

But at least in part because he's Henry, a male character who hasn't been pookiefied since Season 1 and doesn't have a sexy ship with Steve Harrington...Assigned Evil at Birth.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

@ifonlyicouldrun I think the Duffers have mentioned before how they wanted the audience to feel sorry for Steve in Season 2 (as if he was a perfect boyfriend when both Nancy and him screwed the relationship) and it's like they still want to do that.

Nonetheless, a lot of us and the GA are so done with St*ncy that it has become annoying.

I'm tired of The Duffers using this sort of narrative with the college situation and Steve meddling instead of giving Jancy well-thought issues...

Am I really supposed to believe that Nancy with all of her plans didn't apply to a California university? That she just hitched their entire plans to just Emerson??? Like no other schools are mentioned.

And I think the part I hate about this writing decision most is they're acting like Nancy doesn't know Jonathan? Like she doesn't know that he'd freak out about leaving Joyce and Will? Like she wasn't in the cabin during the exorcism.

It's incredibly annoying. ESPECIALLY when at the end of s4 it's heavily implied she knows he's lying

Like she knows him enough to know he's lying but doesn't know Jonathan enough to know that he won't leave his family??? I call bullshit.

Not to say this would solve anythingbut having other universities as options would make a little more sense. Making the conflict about the affordability of one university over another would've made more sense. Or making the conflict over one of them getting in and the other not getting in would make more sense. If Nancy had applied to a CA school and decided to go there they could've still had Jonathan struggling with feeling like Nancy is giving up her dreams but without the stupid lying.

I just hate this plot so much.

[atopvisenyashill]

what i mean when i say this season is too fast is that it doesn't even feel like we're in the middle of the season but we're ALREADY on the penultimate episode?? absolutely NOT we need at least three more!!!!!

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

It's so weird how Will hasn't had much screentime or focus on the show these last seasons (not as much as he deserves and not as much as we want to) but he's one of the few characters that actually gets developed and evolves.

Similar to Lucas, in a sense, because Lucas and Will are, in my opinion, the most mature ones out of the kids.

Like, obviously, each character is used for different purposes but the growth Will (and Lucas) had is abysmal compared to Dustin and Steve, for example, who are like the most beloved characters (after El I guess?) out of the show that usually get very funny/heroic combos.

But most people are not aware of this.

[demadogs]

You are saying queerbait has to involve a certain kind of marketing situation, however queerbait situations like Destiel or Klance or even Johnlock were never actually used for "actual" marketing. In fact, the writers of SPN would specifically state that they never thought of Destiel as a legitimate possibility and the actors said it did not exist. There was no marketing involved, but the queerbait was still there. Klance and Johnlock were never used for explicit marketing either, the writers of Sherlock openly made fun of shippers and fans on the show, but ultimately the baiting was still there and same for Klance. I think it is kinda obtuse to think that Byler is not queerbait when it objectively fills the most requirements for being classified as a queerbaiting case if it is not made canon.

i didnt watch spn or johnlock or any of those so im not gonna get into that bc i dont wanna do research.

but ok ill push the marketing aspect of queerbaiting aside. the other big reason i believe byler isnt queerbait is because of the sheer amount of hidden gems and easter eggs that the ga wouldnt notice right away or ever. queerbaiting is SUPPOSED to be obvious. thats the only way it would even work. if theyre trying to queerbait theyre not doing it right at all.

framing mike with closets, blue and yellow being associated with byler, the colors during the s3 mlvn break up vs the colors of bylers fight, the fact that the only time we see a shot of mlvn that doesnt include will is during their fight, the “tender emotional music”, some of which were reused tracks played for scenes of canon couples.

all of these are things that many people wouldnt notice on their first watch or ever and because of that, they failed to attract that potential new audience with bait. their bait wasnt obvious enough. was there a huge influx of new viewers just because mikes feelings were so obvious and they wanted to watch a queer scifi love story? no not at all. so it wasnt bait to begin with.

[stevie-petey]

Maybe it’s for holly? Maybe the time jump is when she’s older?!

oh actually ur probably right i COMPLETELY forgot about holly omg

[ohfallingdisco]

It’s the middle of the night and here I am with a stomachache from thinking too hard about Mike Wheeler again-

[lunabug2004]

Reblogging this bc the current reactor I'm watching just gave me a prime example of this!

She watches the scene with Nancy & Steve dining with Barb's parents and cries with Nancy, talking about how she has no one she can talk to about her feelings (her survivor's guilt). She's legitimately so upset for Nancy (rightfully so).

However, when it cuts to Mike's own depressive episode about El, she pretty much immediately starts acting like he's being dramatic. She starts saying "Michael" in a disappointed-esc tone, and even specifically says he needs to take the fort down because it's been long enough. She makes the connection of his "rebelling" being because he "misses El" (her words exactly), but doesn't go any farther than that. She doesn't seem to catch onto his grieving, at least not to the same extent that she did Nancy's.

She knows El is alive for sure, despite never seeing the show past season 1, because she'd seen promo stuff for s4 all over the media. I fully believe this is why it's so much harder for her and a massive portion of the GA (bc anyone who watched the s2 trailer knew El was alive as well) to see the connection between Nancy's and Mike's survivors guilt.

And while I don't know for sure if this was on purpose (I'm leaning towards yes bc it was very hard to believe El wasn't still alive at the point of the first episode coming out), I do think it's pretty unfair towards the character of Mike. Plus adding his dislike of Max into the mix, which is mostly due to all the emotional pain he's in, made people start to dislike him in this season.

I just think with how much the Duffers (& all the actors) claim to love Mike, these were very strange choices to make.

Something I've noticed recently is the difference in which people notice or think/talk about Nancy and Mike's survivor's guilt.

People seem to be much more open to the notion of Nancy having survivor's guilt, also they tend to pick up on it easier, and I think the reason for this Nancy actually kinda demonstrates herself in s2, when talking to Jonathan when she says "Yeah, but it's different for you. Will came home."

Now, Mike feels survivor's guilt in connection to both Will and El, and Nancy for Barb, and the difference between them is that both Will and El actually survive. But the thing that people tend to forget is that Mike saw Will's "dead body", he saw El disappear in front of his own eyes just to not hear from her for almost a year, he saw his best friend's body and mind be taken over by a terrifying monster (who he had just told he wouldn't let happen to him a day or so before). So, yes, El and Will may not be dead, but in any case, esp in Mike's 11-14 year old brain, that doesn't really mean much at all. Mental illnesses don't go away just because the thing that caused them did. I mean, that's legitimately what PTSD is!

Talking about s2 specifically for example, even at the beginning of the season, most of the GA already knew that El was still alive, but knew for sure that Barb was dead. The show parallels Nancy and Mike in ep 1, with Nancy crying in Barb's house and Mike looking terribly upset while boxing up toys in his basement. Despite this parallel though, most people I've watched only pick up on Nancy's survivor's guilt. Even though Mike goes on to try and contact El, who he still (mostly) believes is dead, lots of people just go "aw that's sad" or "aw that's sweet" and move on.

Idk if it's just because he's younger, or that, as I said before, the audience knows El is still alive, but it's always seemed to me that people don't take Mike's mental health problems as seriously as they take Nancy's when really, they're in a very similar boat.

[jonathanbyersphd]

going back to previously published fics to add this tag

No bc @throttlegainwell is so real for coming up with a term to describe when you don't intend to write horny Jancy but they're horny anyways