#blame the duffers

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

Some Bylers need to think inside the box with what Stranger Things has done with the romantic relationships.

What do I mean by this?

None of the characters that have been involved in romantic relationships had a "Oh" moment where they realized they liked someone. I never saw anyone having an "Aha!" moment either.

There is nothing wrong with having theories and predictions, but I feel like a lot of Bylers want the show to treat Mike and Will in this super unique way and hope for The Duffers to use certain romantic tropes that romantic shows use, but at the same time want Byler to be treated like any other couple.

Again, everyone is able to have their headcanons but I'm seeing people here taking them seriously.

I mean, Stranger Things have never used super romantic and over the top gestures (unless you count Mike's monologue as one and look at how that went).

So, please be aware that while we have many many incredible theories, a lot of those won't be true and managing our expectations is the most important thing, cause it protects us.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

@givehimthemedicine I’m gonna include your tags because they are fire and you are so right:

I loved S4, but I agree with so so many of your points.

The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of screen time from the Cali group, where they had THREE of their main characters (if not the most essential character, Will) in that location and they gave them complete dust as opposed to everyone else. And this is not me being biased, it’s wanting to know more about those characters because they are THE SHOW and we've been so deprived from them on screen.

Also, @givehimthemedicine I’ve seen the GA say that the show relies so heavily on El and they make it so obvious on S4 that it turns some people off. That could probably be a reason why El stopped being the character you cared about the most…

@tinyteenieworld has this amazing post where she hits the nail on how S4 disappointed us and I wholeheartedly agree.

can u elaborate abt s4 not feeling like st? i don't disagree but i'm curious what ur thoughts are. i also felt s3 really didn't feel like st, like it's such a tonal shift from the first two seasons (and it has a LOT of issues) but i kind of love it anyway so.

before i try to put it into words i have to issue a disclaimer so here we go: i’m not trying to suggest that stranger things was ever like an indie show or underground or had a small fanbase at all, i know that it’s been insanely popular ever since s1 like i fully acknowledge that. however. s4, to me, feels like it was written to maximize online buzz instead of prioritizing the story, more so than any other season, and it worked which makes the fanbase feel different.

the first three seasons were obviously insanely popular and they did have these big moments that became referenced to death. i mean s1 alone spurred the whole barb obsession, the pink dress blonde wig el halloween costumes, the recreations of joyce’s light wall, the eggo jokes, plus people just went crazy like inviting david harbour to their weddings and shit. but that was all…natural. prettymuchit’s eric striffler talked about this in their stranger things commentary track so i’m ripping from him but he essentially said, in reference to s1, it’s insanely impressive how effortlessly the show managed to create iconic imagery that feels like it’s from an 80s movie in 2016. the duffers know that, so every season they ramp it up more and more to try to capitalize off that success. and sometimes i don’t mind it! i know people took issue with steve & dustin in s3, complained that their dynamic was being strung along just for memes or whatever, but to me their bond still felt genuine and authentic in that season so i personally was cool with it.

s4 just feels…rushed. which is insane because they had 3 years to work on it. purely speculating here, i think perhaps the duffers and netflix knew that it’d been forever and people were starting to forget stranger things, so all those rewrites and added content were kinda written with the idea of maximizing viewership in mind. that’s how we get ideas like: creating a fan favorite character whose imminent death is shoved down your throat so hard that the actual moment just rings hollow, shock killing and then un-killing max, bringing stancy back out of nowhere, starting and then dropping multiple storylines as the season progressed, giving el and hopper the exact same storylines they had in season two, having brenner take up insane amounts of screen time, etc etc etc. just…bad choices! and bad choices that you can tell were manufactured to either go viral (eddie and max) or start debate (stancy) while basically forfeiting the quality of the show in the process.

okay here’s where i’m gonna get bitchy. again i know the shows always been popular, and i like eddie, but eddie….took away a lot of the fun of the fanbase. and this is coming from someone who writes eddie fic!! i love him!! but i hate when any one specific character just completely monopolizes all content and conversation about a show, and among casual fans eddie completely 100% did this. you cannot see a single tweet about ST without thousands of replies all being like “is eddie coming back??? is eddie alive?????” and it just annoys me! i don’t like it! it makes the fan reaction and aftermath of this season just…different than the others and a lot less fun.

i think for me the different vibe all comes down to the fact that i didn’t like season 4. i was really disappointed after i finished it and honestly very sad i remember texting em being like “i don’t want to admit i’m disappointed because then that makes it real” but it’s been 5 months now and i can fully say: i was disappointed. it wasn’t what i was expecting, it wasn’t what i wanted, it was just not the quality of the show i know and love! which again is all subjective! and there’s a lot of good moments from it, but s4 just doesn’t hold a candle to the other 3 and it’s somehow impossibly made me …. not excited for s5. which i didn’t think was something that could happen!!

[a-shade-of-green]

stranger things as textposts pt. 5

NOOOO THE SHIELDS ARE UP AGAIN WE ARE AT WAR enjoy some memes in the trenches boys

cant stop wont stop

[chirpsythismorning]

Joyce staying at the cabin with Hopper and El to keep them safe bc no one in Hawkins knows they’re alive. Will, Jonathan and Argyle staying at the Wheeler's bc they have more room and presumably aren't in danger like the others.

OH WAIT there's a witch hunt for the Hellfire club, which means all the boys are in danger from the townspeople. OH WAIT the boy who came back to life has returned from the West, the same boy whose assumed death jumpstarted this small town's curse in the first place! The same boy who apparently everyone and their fathers knew was gay...

THE END IS NEAR! THE GAYS ARE RESPONSIBLE!

+ Time jump early somewhere in between.

Now picture how that would look in an 8 episode story format, leading up to a final battle lasting about 2+ hrs, and that's loosely how s5 is gonna go down.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

Precisely! You guys are onto something.

There is no reason at all for Mike to pull away; he was the one who started being weird all of a sudden when he arrived at Lenora.

We know after the van scene, that Will was, in his own way, pulling away from Mike. Mike was also pushing him away and felt like he lost Will, but why? Why did Mike pull away?

Or...

I was talking about love triangles and the cliché best friend in love one-sidedly with my sister because we consume a lot of romance content. (Whether straight or queer).

And we came to the conclusion that if the friendship between the characters starts to fracture and one of the characters pulls away from the other, it's always the one in love. Always.

If one starts acting weird it's the one who has romantic feelings specifically because of these romantic feelings, while the other remains oblivious to this and is like "hey dude, what's wrong."

(with the exception of if they are aware of their best friend's feelings and doesn't know how to act so as not to hurt them).

And this is because the other way around doesn't make sense.

The character who is not in love has no reason to start acting weird and distancing themselves, nothing has changed for them, their friendship is still the same so it makes sense for them to keep acting the same.

It's already been established that Mike has no idea about Will's feelings so now I ask you, what the hell is Mike Wheeler's problem?

[psychotic-nonsense]

Not sure if this is anything, and feel free to critique or add on or clarify and all that, but...

A few weeks post-Starcourt Steve, absolutely wrecked by the Russians and Billy. He's healing, little by little, but he knows he needs to put his pain aside to help out The Party. Especially Robin, who has not been coping with the trauma well. She's taken to spending the night at Steve's most of the time, and they help each other manage. She's not the best with physical comfort, nor is Steve with verbal comfort, but they're managing.

Yet despite the constant offers of help, Steve always refuses to "ask for too much" and often downplays his pain, forcing a smile to keep anyone from worrying. He's bottling up everything - probably handling it worse than Robin, even though he insists he's used to it and knows how to fix himself. Every day he gets a little worse, and every night he brushes off help.

It's during one of these late nights that disaster finds them again. It's Steve and Robin in his living room, and they're just about falling asleep on the couch when the ground begins rumbling, hard. An earthquake, shaking Hawkins and getting the entire Party in a frenzy. The radios are blaring with the kids' voices and Steve's trying to get Robin to stop screaming into the walkie, when suddenly there's a hole opening up in Steve's living room, and the earthquake stops. Steve and Robin go quiet, and the kids are urging for a response as they all rush to meet up at Steve's.

But he and Robin can't speak, too busy staring at the hole. One that looks way too similar to the Gates... but it glows blue instead of the usual red. Steve, ever the protector, is carefully stepping around the hole to grab a fire poker for defense. The second he does, the Party bursts in, just in time to watch the hole suddenly crack open further, sucking Steve in and closing itself behind him-

As Steve Harrington lands in the bedroom of Post-ST3-release 2019 Eddie Munson.

Eddie's living rough, bunking in his childhood friend Ronnie's basement. An orphan, can't hold a job, in his second senior year of high school purely because he knows he has nothing else to do after it. His only source of comfort so far has been DnD - either the DM hosting he does at the local library for the other poor lost suckers, or the one Netflix show with its elements that has captured his heart.

Eddie's a pretty big Stranger Things fan - it has its faults but is otherwise a really fun and interesting show - but ever since ST2, he's especially been a Steve Harrington fan. He feels like he goes mad just thinking about the implications of what that man has gone through, what all those kids have been through, and how Steve has put aside himself to focus on the kids. How much Steve has changed, and how under appreciated he is.

Since binging all of ST3 the day it released, Eddie's had a field day on breaking down this newest reformation of Steve. He adores Robin - clocked her as a lesbian from episode 1 - and loves that Dustin and Erica have been bringing out his bitchy side, while still keeping him in check. The Russian torture and strange parallels with Billy have made him cry on more than one occasion, and Steve's half-high speech in the bathroom legitimately felt like Steve finally acknowledging his change, even if for but a moment.

Ronnie's teased Eddie way too much about his "obvious crush on Joe Keery" but this feels way too personal for him to just be crushing on an actor. This is Eddie falling for the Fallen King of Hawkins himself, and it's much more embarrassing. Steve Harrington becomes his muse in every form of art; drawing, writing, character inspiration and improvisation. The Duffer brothers aren't the greatest at the rest of the show, but they've damn well got this guy down.

Hell, Eddie was halfway to crossing the last personal barrier to outright obsession (x Reader fanfiction) when the earthquake hit. In hindsight it wasn't the worst thing in the world, but Eddie had never experienced one before. He immediately dove right under his bed, covering his ears and curling up in a ball like a coward ("Nancy Wheeler would be ashamed," his weird ass brain supplies). He hears rumbling, things falling over, wood splintering and the world seemingly cracking apart all around him-

When a body suddenly lands hard on his bed with a loud scream of fear, cutting off as the whatever it is rolls straight off to the floor, and the world gives one final strain before going completely silent.

Terrified, Eddie's eyes are shut tight, cowering as the body on the floor just a foot away from him groans and gasps for air. It takes a sudden hiss of pain for Eddie to finally, carefully, crack one eye open.

Only to come eye to eye, through the gaps of his bedsheets, with the very muse he'd just been thinking of. Steve Harrington.

There's an immediate scramble of panic; Eddie bashing his skull into his bed frame trying to get out and away from the obvious hallucination, while Steve wobbles on his feet to defend himself against this strange humanoid Upside Down monster.

"What are you?! Where am I?!"

"What am- Are- You- No, you're not real- JESUS H. CHRIST MAN, GET THAT AWAY FROM ME!"

"I don't know what you're talking about, but you're gonna see how real this is if you don't tell me what's going on!"

"You think I know?! You fell into my room!!"

"Yeah, from your Gate!!"

"WHAT FUCKING GATE- WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?"

"I DON'T FUCKING KNOW!!"

That gets them both to shut up, just staring at each other. Eddie pressed up against the wall in fear with his hands up and out wide, Steve with the fire poker pointed straight at his neck and his hand held up cautiously. Eddie sees it, smells blood in the air, and ignoring everything, reaches out for it. Steve jabs at the air with the poker, but it's halfhearted, his energy clearly draining, too exhausted with the whole situation to try much further. Finally his arm drops, but Eddie doesn't move, watching Steve's face crumple in a way that aches everything inside his heart.

"Where am I...?" Steve pleas, tone just as desperate as the one from the Russian bunker, even when lacking its power.

Eddie fumbles for the words, but eventually just sighs. "Somewhere you wouldn't believe, my friend."

High and complacent on adrenaline and shock, Steve and Eddie just move in silence. Eddie grabs a wet cloth to clean the blood, Steve cutting off a bit of his sweatpants to use as gauze. It's just a gash from falling with the fire poker, nothing drastic, but the two stare at the cut in Steve's palm, easier to see than the one who's hand is on theirs.

Introductions are exchanged when they can finally stop shaking, and Eddie somehow drops the bomb on where and when Steve is, and what his entire existence is to this reality. Steve has a very brief existential panic attack about it, but is strangely comforted by Eddie's confidence about it all - "Even without El's powers, those kids are smart as hell. They'll figure out a way to make their own Gate and get you back home."

Then Steve just spends the next week or two in a reality almost 40 years in the future, where he and his entire existence is a sci-fi TV show. Some funny exchanges I've been thinking of:

Steve: Wait, so we're characters in a show, right? That means we have actors.

Eddie: Oh, uh, yeah, you do...

Steve: ...Think I could see them?

Eddie: Uh- Sure, I guess? Not sure what you're expecting, it's a live action thing, they look just like you.

Steve: Never getting used to your future phone... Huh, Joe Keery? Looks like a cool guy- woah, is that what my hair looks like short??

Eddie: Yup, again, literally just you.

Steve: Funny how we both have the most basic names too. Steve and Joe? Like, look at Dustin's actor, what kind of name is Gaten?

Eddie: Rude, the guy plays your little brother.

Steve: Quit bringing your fake show theories into my actual life.

Eddie: It's true though.

Steve: ...Yeah.

----------------

(Steve goes crazy after a few days of being locked in, and begs Eddie to take him out to "see the future." While they're walking around town, a group of girls suddenly freak out and rush them)

"It's Joe Keery! Guys, look it's Steve Harrington, from Stranger Things!!"

(Eddie's halfway to panicking, but Steve immediately handles the situation)

Steve: Sorry to disappoint, ladies, not him. Don't worry though, I've been getting that a lot since the show came out.

"Oh God, I'm so sorry! Hope we didn't make you uncomfortable, mister..."

Steve: Mark, and not at all! I get asked this a lot too, but do you girls want a picture? For bragging rights, getting to meet "The Steve Harrington?"

(They agree, Eddie takes it for them, the girls go on their way)

Eddie whispering: That's gonna be everywhere in 5 seconds, I hope you know.

Steve whispering: Eh, it's a crowd my actor didn't have to deal with. Besides, felt pretty good.

Eddie: Familiar experience?

Steve: For a better reason.

-------------

Steve, showing Eddie's laptop screen open to the FunkoPop website and the Scoops Duo, halfway to tears: They make figurines of me and Robin?

Eddie: Yeah, of all you guys. I've got a little Dustin on my desk.

Steve, beginning to cry from how adorable he finds it: YOU DO?

---------------

(Ronnie comes back from work early while Steve and Eddie are talking in the living room. Eddie freezes as Steve makes eye contact, and Ronnie just stares)

Ronnie: Um, hi?

Steve: Oh, hey! You must be Eddie's roommate, nice to finally meet you! I'm Mark.

(That allows a breath to finally enter and escape Eddie's throat in a bit of a laugh. Steve's really leaning into this Mark persona)

Ronnie: Ronnie, and likewise... Sorry if I'm acting weird, you're just a really good cosplayer. Thought you were actually Steve for a second.

Steve hesitantly: Nah, just a doppleganger.

Ronnie, shrugging and walking away: Well okay then, I'm way too tired to talk much more. Eds, just keep your nerd shit out of the sink-

Eddie: And stay quiet, yeah yeah, go rest, breadwinner.

(Ronnie goes upstairs, out of earshot)

Steve whispering: What's a cosplayer?

Eddie, suddenly also very tired: Tell you later.

I'm thinking that Eddie had sketchbooks, notebooks, and Word Docs absolutely stuffed full of ST character evaluation, which he immediately hid upon Steve's arrival. Maybe Steve gets bored when Eddie's out for whatever reason, and snoops around. That's when he finds it all crammed at the back of Eddie's closet. The kids, Nancy, Jonathan, Robin, Joyce, Hopper, hell Billy and Murray are in the pile. Drawings of them in their adventures, active and mundane alike. Pages upon pages of character description, Eddie's handwriting gushing about the parts of the show and characters he loves, hates, wishes was fixed, all of it.

But the part that gets Steve is one specific sketchbook and notebook, both dubbed the Steven Soliloquy. It's the same type of information as before, but only about him, and it's filled to the brim. Eddie talking about his development, his change of heart, the complete shift that Nancy and the Upside Down and the kids allowed him to have. The affects of his trauma, and how much he stuffed it down in favor of everyone else. Talked about his relationships, ones he cherishes, loathes, never thought of or never got the chance to make. Talked about "AUs," alternative realities where he got everything he ever wanted. Eddie's words, his sketches, devolve into adoration-fueled envy, wishing he could be near such an amazing man, that he was strong enough to be such an amazing man. How much his heart aches for Steve.

And if this were a normal situation, Steve would be uncomfortable, creeped out. But knowing the context of it all, Steve can't help but be enamored. That his family's journey, his entire story of survival - even when fictional to Eddie - is so valued makes it all feel a little more worth it. That there was someone out there during all of their terror, rooting for their victory, crying with their pain, screaming with their fears, understanding them because he lived through it all right beside them.

Eddie finds Steve in his room later that day, surrounded by those books. Staring at what Eddie considers his WIP magnum opus; a half-finished colored pencil recreation of the Last Supper with the entire Party, including all of the people they lost, happy and healthy. Eddie's two seconds from apologizing for how creepy it all must be - seeing how many of those books are open - but then he sees the tears in Steve's eyes. Gratitude and adoration and care, all bundled up and very suddenly staring right at him with the widest smile he's seen.

They talk about it. Eddie finally admits his minor obsession with the show, and how much they've helped him come to terms with being a self-dubbed loser. He honestly gushes way too much about what he owes to them about his life, but Steve listens to it all with complete adoration. At the end of it, Steve asks Eddie about the possibility that they've been adamantly ignoring for Steve's entire stay: actually watching Stranger Things.

And that's how they spend their last week. Starting from season 1, they sit in the living room and binge the entire thing. Steve learns an entirely new perspective about his family's adventures, not only from the show's canon, but from Eddie's theories and rants in between monumental moments. Eddie holds his hand during the scenes that focus on his worst nightmares; the Demogorgan in the Byler home, the breakup, his fight with Billy, the Russians. Steve provides his perspective on how he felt during it all, finally admitting to the pain he's gone through instead of just focusing on the others hoping it'll all go away.

Not sure where exactly it goes from here. Maybe some codependency grows between them. Maybe Steve falls a little in love. Maybe they just stay friends, the only ones who understand each other aside from their Platonic Soulmates.

Maybe, when another earthquake finally hits, opening up a Gate in Ronnie's backyard, Steve and Eddie finally must go their separate ways. Eddie promising to keep watching over them from across the realm, Steve promising to make a happy ending for their story.

Or maybe, Steve can't help but see what little Eddie has, how special Eddie actually is, and offer to bring him along. Into the very show he loves so much. Maybe Eddie convinces Ronnie that he'll be okay, swearing to be entertaining should he join the show in an important way, and making her swear that if he doesn't survive to bring him back in as much fanfiction as she can write. Maybe Eddie enters Hawkins, Indiana, and becomes a bit self aware about being in a TV show. It takes a while for everyone to warm up to the future man - and for Eddie to get used to Midwestern US in the 80s - but he becomes a close member of the Party quite easily. Maybe his involvement in season 4, his death, is avoided, and maybe it's not.

But his adoration for Steve Harrington never goes away. Not in canon, or in fiction.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

I like all characters but honestly, i think Mike is the only character who literally has nothing going for him at this point in the show (in the text i mean). It feels like he is usually defined by El and other times his friendship drama with Will. Like I really cannot count anything Mike has individually or personally storywise for his character. Even Dustin is given individual and personal arcs of his own (and I am saying 'even' because Dustin's usually seen as the funny comedic guy kind of character). He's given relationship dynamics with Steve, Robin and Erica. He's got his own relationship exploration with Eddie for all S4 and literally Eddie died to specifically further Dustin's character. Lets not lie that Eddie will have anything to do with Mike in the next season. It was basically all about building Dustin's grief for him for S5 and furthering Dustin's role in clearing up Eddie's name and helping his uncle. Lucas got his own basketball plotline and wanting to stop his bullying by playing up his popularity and struggling with being a nerd versus jock. I don't even have to talk about Max and El. Will's got his own gay sexuality storyline and his supernatural plotlines. Nancy got journalism and gets to fight and be in action. Jonathan even if he's sidelined has personal storylines aka his parentification, daddy issues/Lonnie and his fear of becoming like his father and college/family struggle, etc.

Of course I ship byler because i want it to happen in the narrative for good writing reasons but i also think it would really help Mike's character to be fixed because his character right now can be described as El's sidepiece and it is annoying as fuck. Sorry but I'd even prefer Will and Jonathan being sidelined any day than spending any more time on Mike talking/thinking about El.

ALL FACTS ANON!

And people need to realize we feel like this because of how the character have been written.

I do think Mike has had some personal struggles unrelated to El though, like how he stood up to the bullies in Season 1, twice (which was something he decided to do for himself, even without the subtext), how he's part of Hellfire in Season 4 and how he's able to take accountability for his own actions.

Is a fact that all characters have something going on for them related to other characters, but Mike seems to be the one whose arc is heavily intertwined with El (and Will). We've analyzed how Mike's plot is always heavily related to Will and El since the first episode, which I have no issues about and I'm pretty indiferent to it, but it would add a richness to his character if we could see him struggle with something related to his own persona.

Hopefully we see Mike with something pertaining to him that makes people realize he's not just El's boyfriend. I mean, look at how people (not us, lol) hated Max in S3 or didn't care about her, but Season 4 showed us how she was struggling with her survivor's guilt and people felt for Max and rooted for her.

Still, we can come up with our own conclusions after S5 premieres but Anon... you were spitting!

[starry-eyed-steve]

Max taking the risk in season 2 is the reason she survived so long, and it will (hopefully) be the reason she gets saved in season 5.

I love the angsty lumax scenes comparisons/parallels like every other person, but it's not true that Max getting involved led to her being in a coma in s4. I think people want an angsty Lucas arc for the last season where he blames himself for everything, but I need someone to reassure him it's not because he got Max involved in s2. I believe his guilt will mostly stem from him not being able to stop Jason in time, letting Max go through with the half-baked plan and, in general, letting Max isolate in the months leading up to Vecna. (Which is already enough. Someone needs to give him a hug in s5)

Max being part of the group by accepting the risk, actually saved her life in multiple ways.

In s3, the chance of her dying due to Billy would have been significantly higher than it actually was. Billy would have gotten possessed either way. It was Karen's fault, not Max or the party, that he was at the wrong place at the right time. If Max hadn't known about the Mindflayer or El, she wouldn't have suspected anything, thus making her an easy target to get flayed as well.

If she were to survive s3 on her own, Vecna would have still targeted her because she felt guilty about Billy dying not because she witnessed it but because she wished that something would happen to him to make the abuse she suffered from him stop. And when something did happen, she blamed herself. Her complicated relationship with Billy is the reason why she got cursed. It was never because she took the risk. Her issues stem from outside of the supernatural things. Without Lucas and her friends, she wouldn't have survived the first attack. She would have been confused like Chrissy, Patrick, and Fred, not knowing what was going on and then dying a horrific death.

Taking the risk ensured her to live as long as she did because she had the opportunity to get information that were vitol for her physical well-being.

But taking the risk also gave her the opportunity to live a more fulfilled life. In the beginning of s2, Max was super closed off. She was scared to get close to anyone because of her brother. He was threatening to harm people if Max disobeyed him (aka him trying to run the party over as a scare tatic to get her back under control after the argument). So she pushed Dustin and Lucas away. It was easier and safer for everyone involved. If we take Runaway Max as canon, then Billy actually physically harmed one of her friends, so it's understandable that Max tries her hardest to stay away in the beginning. Only due to Lucas and Dustin constant persuading and pushing she opened up a bit more. And then when Lucas told her the huge secret she was suddenly a part of something so big she had to allow herself to trust others because her life was dependent on it. It gave her the opportunity to be honest and vulnerable to an outsider, which also then led her to free herself from her brother's control by the end of s2. Meeting Steve and the rest and seeing that someone was willing to protect her from her brother's abuse gave her the strength to set boundaries, which then allowed her to be happier and more open. She met El and found amazing friends in the party, which she wouldn't be close otherwise. It also allowed her to have a different relationship with Billy. In s3, they seemed to be more relaxed before everything went south.

Without getting involved, she probably would still be the closed off girl she was at the beginning of s2. She would still be under Billy's control until he died. And then she would be alone without anyone really looking out for her, which would lead to her definite death in s4.

Lucas saved her physically and emotionally by giving her the opportunity to take the risk. And because of that, she can still be saved in s5.

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

Agreed.

The plot that suffered the most in ST4 was, in my opinion, the Cali gang.

Why couldn't we see a bit more of The Byers + El + Argyle?

You also had 3 major main characters, Mike, Will and Jonathan, with so little screen-time in that last season that it left me wanting so much more!

I feel like the Duffers lean on fanservice way too much despite saying that they do not do fanservice.

They reduced Byers' family screen time on the show to give that screen time to other characters like Steve and Dustin because the audience finds them funnier and meme-able. They lean onto Steve and Dustin's comedic duo scenes and moments and that resulted in their ignoring other characters. They tried to pair up Steve and Dustin more after S2 because the audience said they were funny together, but that resulted in Dustin being separated from the Party for most of his screen time duration, as a consequence, this resulted in decreasing the Party dynamics and Dustin's other important relationships with characters like Lucas and other Party members. The audience thought Joyce was too caring as a mother, so her bond with Will was reduced and Joyce was made to be around characters like Hopper much more and she had no real screen time moments with Jonathan and Will after S2. Jonathan's character moments got reduced in favor of other characters like Steve. They still lean on the unnecessary Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle because the audience feels sorry for Steve, so they keep coming back to the ship baiting. They cannot kill Steve as a character because they do not want to and they do not want to anger the fans, so they created Eddie and killed him off, but then they did not expect to see the fans be attached to Eddie this much and the backlash came from that. So I just wonder if they're gonna pull a fanservice situation with Eddie in the next season. They keep giving unnecessary screen time to minor or background characters while totally neglecting some of their main cast because the fans find characters like Enzo, Yuri or other minor characters funny. They destroyed so many dynamics on the show in favor of fanservices, memeable moments and audience wishes. I could keep going but these are the things that come to my mind right now.

Oof I agree with all of this—I mean that’s what they did and it def is fanservice no matter what they say lol.

Also I think the point about cutting Dustin off from the party not making the most sense is really true. They also used Steve and Dustin as a meme “brother” relationship over the less memeable Jonathan and Will.

[henrysglock]

I'm thinking about it again, so I'm just gonna say it now and get it out of the way: If 001 had been Henrietta Creel, a tall, lean, polite and gentle "All-American" beauty. If she, as a child, had been dolled up all prim and proper in a little pink dress like El's from Season 1 while she played with her spiders. If she had snapped and ranted about social performance, about unattainable, unfair standards she doesn't think she should have to obey, about how her mother despised her, about reproduction and abuse, about how she was kidnapped by a doctor and experimented on to produce a line of super-powered children.

There would be no end to the essays and think-pieces about how tragic her story is, how horribly she was abused, how much of a victim she was, how her girlhood was stolen from her, how she deserved better, how she was really a good girl who finally snapped, and really, who can blame her? (not to mention the #girlboss, female rage, "good for her" posting...unironically...)

But at least in part because he's Henry, a male character who hasn't been pookiefied since Season 1 and doesn't have a sexy ship with Steve Harrington...Assigned Evil at Birth.

[atopvisenyashill]

what i mean when i say this season is too fast is that it doesn't even feel like we're in the middle of the season but we're ALREADY on the penultimate episode?? absolutely NOT we need at least three more!!!!!

[steveharrington]

it’s so insane how people act about high school steve bc like outside of the shit we see him do in s1 (breaking jonathan’s camera (tho tbh i’m on his side here) and the graffiti), all the things the characters mention when they’re talking about how he used to suck are so??? nothing???? like. he’s a douche because he didn’t remember someone a year younger than him from one (1) of his classes. I live in a small town and went to school with the same people from elementary through high school and there were Absolutely people in my own graduating class (of like ~140 people) whose names I didn’t know (while I was still in high school, let alone years later). and then the other things that get mentioned are like “he ate a bagel messily” or “he asked stupid questions” or “his parents are rich” which aren’t things he needs to apologize for?? everyone leave him alone!!!!

i know it’s actually like silly and goofy the things robin was mad at him for. one of my biggest pet peeves in fic is when people retroactively make up mean things steve did to robin in high school because like…..she would have said if he actively antagonized her. her literal only complaints were 1. he didn’t remember her from class 2. he got crumbs on the floor 3. he didn’t understand the material (😭?) 4. tammy liked him. like that’s all he did to her. and eddie can’t think of a single grievance he has against steve other than like “you play sports so i just kinda figured you’re evil” so all in all i think it’s kinda unfair and ooc when people write steve’s early high school days as if he was just constantly prowling the halls looking for people to harass.

and i’m not saying steve wasn’t a dick, because he was, but the way it’s presented in the show was much more interesting than the way fanon characterizes him. steve’s form of bullying was being nice to someone one second, then laughing along when his friends made a joke at their expense. it was taking the whole “dude stoppppp 🤣” approach when tommy went too far. it was saying the meanest thing he could possibly think of when he felt attacked. steve cared more about his social status and fitting in with his friend group than being kind, and he outright admits that in s3 when he says popularity was really important to him before he developed beyond that and realized it was all pointless. i feel like we all knew people like that in high school and it feels 1000x more real than the typical stephen king bully caricature who’s like so evil it doesn’t even make sense. and yet. everyone insists on making steve into that

[tal-vez-o-quizas]

@willel thank you for replying, I really appreciate it.

It's such a shame for Jonathan as a character cause they are wasting Charlie's talent. They are also wasting Joe's cause they could've written something way better for Steve...

Dustin and Steve's dynamic having such a big focus is also a product of Shawn Levi's preferences cause he has mentioned in many interviews how they want the audience to "feel sorry for Steve" and it's very evident how they prioritize him over many things.

Lastly, I didn't know people complained that "Season 2 is too much like Season 1". It is so different, with the exception of Will and El swapping places. You can tell that The Duffers can't win, cause then you have people saying that Season 3 is way too different or that it deviated way too much from the show's essence or that is th worst season. So I'll give that one to The Duffers for doing whatever the hell they want with their show. I don't blame them in that aspect.

Season 2 was the last season where I felt that I was actually watching an ensemble cast (although some cracks were starting to be seen) as opposed to these last two seasons though.

But it must have been hard to keep the show interesting while thinking of what the audience wants. We still don't have the full picture, but they have the power to make it or break it.

Hopefully they make it.

@tal-vez-o-quizas replied to your post “When you really think about it, if Stranger Things...”:

Hmm, then what does this mean for the characters and their arcs? How does this affect all our theories for everything?

​I think most of the damage has already been done. You can see the damage for characters like Jonathan. The heavy emphasis on Dustin and Steve and almost complete lack of interactions with the party.

Little things that might've had a through line before were left on the brains of a writer who is no longer around.

The big overarching character arcs might still be there (except for Jonathan's who they constantly seem to forget), but I think all the smaller things got left behind.

Another one I think people forget about is the relationship between Lucas and Dustin. I feel like before they had their own special friendship in season 1 and 2 that has yet to make a reassurance really. It did for a brief moment when they were being silly while interrogated on the couch and whispering in the kitchen, but that's kinda it.

So I'm not necessarily saying all the big stuff got washed away with new seasons, but I feel the people who have known these characters and their relationships from the beginning would've done a better job keeping them together.

Then again, the general audience complained season 2 was too much like season 1, so maybe that's why they decided to "start fresh" and cycle through new writers every season since then. To "keep it fresh"

[demadogs]

You are saying queerbait has to involve a certain kind of marketing situation, however queerbait situations like Destiel or Klance or even Johnlock were never actually used for "actual" marketing. In fact, the writers of SPN would specifically state that they never thought of Destiel as a legitimate possibility and the actors said it did not exist. There was no marketing involved, but the queerbait was still there. Klance and Johnlock were never used for explicit marketing either, the writers of Sherlock openly made fun of shippers and fans on the show, but ultimately the baiting was still there and same for Klance. I think it is kinda obtuse to think that Byler is not queerbait when it objectively fills the most requirements for being classified as a queerbaiting case if it is not made canon.

i didnt watch spn or johnlock or any of those so im not gonna get into that bc i dont wanna do research.

but ok ill push the marketing aspect of queerbaiting aside. the other big reason i believe byler isnt queerbait is because of the sheer amount of hidden gems and easter eggs that the ga wouldnt notice right away or ever. queerbaiting is SUPPOSED to be obvious. thats the only way it would even work. if theyre trying to queerbait theyre not doing it right at all.

framing mike with closets, blue and yellow being associated with byler, the colors during the s3 mlvn break up vs the colors of bylers fight, the fact that the only time we see a shot of mlvn that doesnt include will is during their fight, the “tender emotional music”, some of which were reused tracks played for scenes of canon couples.

all of these are things that many people wouldnt notice on their first watch or ever and because of that, they failed to attract that potential new audience with bait. their bait wasnt obvious enough. was there a huge influx of new viewers just because mikes feelings were so obvious and they wanted to watch a queer scifi love story? no not at all. so it wasnt bait to begin with.

[stevie-petey]

Maybe it’s for holly? Maybe the time jump is when she’s older?!

oh actually ur probably right i COMPLETELY forgot about holly omg

[ickypuppi3]

i’m confused because is that not literally how she’s written in the show- her storylines do revolve her love life 99% of the time

like as shitty as that is, it is canon & surely you can’t blame fans for how crap the shows writing is and how characters are depicted?