#bl for non-bl watchers

[yourstormthlaylirahh]

I really try to avoid negative reviews on mdl, I really do, because they tend to be mind numbingly stupid takes, but there is one I see so consistently and asserted with such confidence I'm gonna briefly rant about it.

People are allowed to not like shows such as Kiseki and My Dear Gangster Oppa, of course, but they are all the time getting compared unfavourably to shows like Kinnporsche because they 'aren't realistic' and are like 'kids imaginings of the mafia.' This is partially a fair point, they aren't realistic, but what gets me is the implication that Kinnporsche is realistic and is ergo better.

Kinnporsche is not realistic, because organized crime is not glamorous. It's not flashy, it's not glorious, it's not stylized choreography for emotionally fraught fight scenes. Frankly, a lot more tedium assorted with business, such as money laundering/running illegal businesses/infiltrating unions/etc is involved than would initially pop into your head when you hear the word mafia. I'm not saying it isn't violent. It is, and there are gruesome killings, and people tend to die in awful ways far before their natural lifespan. But it is often a more boring, day to day type of violence than what we find in a plotted story.

The thing is, those don't tend to make accessible television or movies (I'm sure there are realistic media treatments I am not aware of, but here I'm referring to stuff intended to have widespread appeal rather than indie or art film). It's glamorized, you are agreeing to suspend some disbelief when you watch the story. It's fine if it feels more realistic to you to watch KP because the sex is more graphic and there are some (frankly incredibly fanciful) torture scenes, but to pretend it is inherently more realistic comes across pretty naive. Some examples are the hospital they have access to and apparently never use, and the plot armour the main characters have to survive fights and situations that would have realistically killed them.

It reminds me of when people claim GOT is sooooo much more realistic than a story like LotR. Setting aside things like dragons, it may be bleaker and more violent, but where are the scores of people dying from sepsis due to stab wounds hmm?

It's fine to like different types of stories, I myself did enjoy at least the first half of KP so this is not just me trying to shit on the show. I just find it really frustrating when people try to use their flawed view of 'realistic' as this gold standard in media analysis.

[anpanman95]

because no one can stop me, I also made my brother (non BL watcher) watch Jack and Joker cause he’s awesome and I knew he’d love it.

His comments? Absolute gold. Here are a few

EP 1 and 2

“Raising him was a waste of time”

“damn okay”

“so…his name is Joke and picks JOKER as his secret identity. Smart cookie this one”

“I never thought my actions could affect someone like this”

“oKAY BRO BUT YOU ROBBED A BANK?!?!?!! HOW DID YOU NOT SEE THIS COMING”

[Jack spits on Joke’s notebook]

“stick that notebook where the sun don’t shine man idk what to tell you”

[Jack stabs the knife only shy away from Joke’s face and threatens to kill him]

“that was a tad gay”

[he got pretty upset with Joke in the first 2 episodes and that’s an understatement, but he’s grown to like him]

EP 3

[Jessie and the rest go inside Boss’ jewelry room, well into the scene]

“WTF THAT’S JOKE WITH A WIG I DIDN’T REALIZE!!!” [I lost a lung, bro did not recognize War at all]

[Blonde War]

“how many wigs does he own”

[After Jack gives Joke the ring and helps him escape]

“that was the gayest fight I’ve ever seen”

[Tattoo betrays Joke]

“UNGRATEFUL LITTLE BITCH!!!”

anygays a pic of my queen to bless your timelines

[usertoxicyaoi]

also! a very good desi gl movie that hit the bollywood mainstream that i would reeeeally rec is ek ladki ko dekha toh aisa laga (2019) available on netflix!

The Absence of India in Discussions on Queer Asian Media

So, yesterday @lurkingshan tagged me in an ask she got from @impala124 about the absence of India when we're talking about queer Asian media. I was intially just going to reblog it with my thought, but as it kept growing I figured it'd be best to just make my own post. Please read the ask linked above first so this makes sense.

*cracks knuckles* this is going to be the most fun I've had writing a post in ages. (For a little background, I'm a queer Indian, born and raised)

So, this is a very interesting question on a subject I've been rotating in my head for the past several months. There's a lot of different variables that contribute to the noticeable lack of discussion on Indian and South Asian queer media in general, so I'm just going to talk through the ones I've noticed a little randomly.

Talking about Asian media in general, it's well known that the mass popularity of kpop and anime has contributed massively to the increase in popularity of Asian media. If you've been in the Asian media fandom for any amount of time at all, you'll have noticed that media from Korea, Japan, and China gets by far the most attention from international audiences; all East Asian countries. There may be several reasons for this, but in particular, it's no secret that the fetishization of East Asians is a massive proponent in the popularity of media from these countries, while there's no such interest in South Asians. If we shift our focus to queer media specifically, media from these three countries is still extremely popular, with the addition of Thailand and the Philippines to some extent; both South East Asian countries. From what I've seen, there's very little international interest in media from South Asian countries (although, if we're talking about India specifically, I can't exactly say anything. Bollywood has not been good lately). If we talk about queer South Asian media, the scope of interest falls even further. If you'll notice, MyDramaList, one of the most commonly used websites for finding and tracking Asian shows only allows for East and South-East Asian shows. So, that's one reason—there's just not much international interest in Indian media in general. As Shan said in the initial post, it's partially because of a difference in priorities. Korea is notorious for using media to gain global standing, the role of the 'soft power' of Thai bls in the recent bills for equal marriage in Thailand has been widely discussed, the list goes on. Could racism also play a part in the massive gulf of interest in media from East Asian versus South Asian countries? Probably. But I'm not going to get into that too much.

Moving on, there's obviously a massive lack of queer media in India. I think this is greatly exacerbated by the fact that it's very hard to support the people making queer media beyond buying and/or streaming their work. The majority of people engaging with Indian queer media are queer Indians, and a lot of us have to do so in secret because of the society we live in. This means that creators that have to push through several obstacles to publish their work often receive little incentive to continue doing so because of the lack of engagement. Because of the lack of media, international fans are less likely to become interested in queer Indian media, and the cycle continues.

I will say though, contrary to what Shan said, I think Indian media, particularly anything that came out post 2019 might actually be on the easier end of the spectrum when it comes to access. This may simply be bias, so forgive me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've seen, a lot of queer Indian shows are in fact available on streaming sites, and at most you'd need a vpn to access them. I think the two main things that actually hold back queer Indian media from becoming more popular are a lack of noise and it's relatively lower quality.

The main way we find out about new shows in this space is through either word of mouth (well actually, post) or because we follow production houses known for producing media. Because of the sparse nature of both the media and the consumers, there's very few people who learn enough about the media to want to give it a shot. For example, there's a film on netflix called Badhaai Do (hindi for Congratulate Us) that I've been meaning to watch for a while. It centers around a lavender marriage and I've heard a lot of good things about it, so I was slightly surprised to see that most of the people on tumblr I interact with who have been engaging with queer media for far longer than me had never heard of it. There's also a, Indian BL from 2017 called Romil and Jugal that I've written about before here, and I would've never learned of it's existence if not for a friend hearing about it from another friend of hers.

Because there's so little queer indian media, it's natural that the quality leaves much to be desired. The main issue is, because the queer asian media market has become so saturated lately people are becoming a lot more selective with what they watch, and for good reason. This means that queer media from india is simply unable to grow and improve over time, leaving it stagnant. Back in 2016-2018, the overall dearth of queer media from Asia meant that a lot of people were willing to watch shows that were average or even worse. Thailand particularly seems to have benefitted from this, being able to grow and evolve its queer media due to the successes of shows like SOTUS, 2gehter, TharnType and more even recently, KinnPorsche. Queer Indian media will have a much, much harder time with this because of all of the factors I've talked about and more, meaning that it is much harder for queer media to evolve. Honestly, though I haven't been able to watch/read much queer media from India, the stuff I have seen is really quite decent, it's just that it tends to fail in comparison to some of the brilliant stuff we're seeing from other countries. A while a ago, I bought four queer books by Indian authors, and of the three I've read so far, I'd genuinely recommend two, albeit one with quite a few reservations (I'll be writing about them sometime in the future, just haven't found the time yet). While talking about this with @neuroticbookworm, she brought up the excellent point of how Indian media in general has just been of fairly poor quality lately. It seems to me that a lot of it is catered to more conservative audiences, which results in people like me becoming disillusioned with Indian media and simply moving onto things from other countries. It has been a long time since I've watched anything worthwhile come out of Bollywood. So, it becomes even harder for queer Indian shows to be found at all; a majority of their target audience has already forsaken Indian media as a lost cause.

So, those are a bunch of reasons because of which there's not a lot of discussion about queer Indian media in fandom spaces like Tumblr. Something else I'd like to point out is, it's very hard for queer shows in India to gain much traction whatsoever. Live television slots are ruled by the infamous Indian serials, the majority of the audience being people in their late thirties and older, particularly women. And while homophobia is just as prevalent amongst the youth of India as it is amongst older generations, younger people are far more likely to be engaging with queer media, in India at least. This means that it would be near impossible for queer shows to air on live television the way they do in countries like Thailand and Japan. The majority of Indian youth use global streaming services to watch shows, hence the greater concentration of queer shows on service platforms. (Romil and Jugal is something of a dark horse here—I don't believe it was ever aired, but it was produced by a producer who has a few decently popular serials under her belt and is available on an Indian steaming service—another reason I'm determined to research how tf this show ever came into existence) If we talk of movies, the industry is limited by the iron fist of Bollywood, another reason it's very hard for queer movies to be produced and why they're generally found on streaming sites.

There's just not a lot of people who have the balls it would take to make a queer Indian show/movie and push it to the Indian public beyond a streaming service. I mean, we're all seeing what's happening with the Love in The Big City drama right now, and believe me, public backlash in India would be the same, if not much worse. And if no one in India is watching these shows, why would anyone in any other part of the world? There's barely any public figures that would be willing to participate in such a project, so queer media stays underground. Currently, Karan Johar is the most popular—and one of the only—out celebrities in Bollywood, and, well, he's treated as something of a laughing stock by the public. He has one or two queer adjacent shows under his belt as a producer, but once again, they're barely known and available only on Netflix. There was a movie called Dostana in which he played a straight guy pretending to be gay but, well, that speaks for itself. And well, I can't exactly blame him for it, knowing how the Indian entertainment industry is.

To talk a little more about the specific comparison between India and Korea, I think you're fairly accurate in saying that the two countries seem to be roughly on par in terms of homophobia, although that's an extremely vague statement that's rather hard to either prove or disprove. While the difference in international attention towards Korean and Indian media is certainly a major component of the difference in discussion about the queer media from these countries, there's obviously other things that go into it as well. There's this video I watched some time ago on the progression of queer representation in K-dramas that's quite well researched. It's an hour and a half long, so in case you don't have the time to watch it (though I do recommend it), it basically talks about some of the dramas with queer rep that have aired on Korean television and their impact. While it's hard to gauge the level of impact of these shows on the availability of bls and gls in Korea, they certainly had an effect, if only telling the queer population of Korea that they are seen and heard. To my knowledge (although I may be mistaken), no such queer rep has ever aired on Indian television, meaning that there's nothing to push creators to put queer media out there. There have been old movies and shows that depict queerness, but none of them ever reached the sort of the scale where they may have some sort of impact on the industry. As I mentioned earlier, the widespread popularity of K-dramas (and k-pop) does make it easier for creators to make queer media since there's a much higher chance of the shows being successful thanks to the international audience. Bringing back Love In The Big City, the success of the book abroad and the high probability of the show being well received internationally is probably one of the reasons it was able to be produced amongst domestic backlash.

Now, I've been talking a lot about how it's difficult for queer Indian media to gain any sort of international recognition with domestic attention. However, it's not necessarily the case. Here's where I start rambling (I say, as if this post isn't verging on 2k words). It's been proven that the presence of the international market allows for greater creative freedom in spaces beyond television. The best example comes from Korea's very own 'soft power'; K-pop. There's a K-pop group called Dreamcatcher that debuted in 2017 with a rock sound and horror concept that was extremely rare in kpop at the time. They succeeded mainly by focusing most of their promotions to the foreign market, knowing that their concept would not be well liked in Korea. And they succeeded. Today, Dreamcatcher has a sizeable fandom and has even been growing in popularity in Korea, with the Korean public warming up to their genre and having influenced other girl groups to try out similar sounds. We've already talked about the lack of international attention for Indian media, but there's also the issue that the producers of queer Indian media aren't marketing to foreign audiences, which remain ignorant.

That's all I have, this is so long good lord. All in all, there's a bunch of factors that feed into each other creating a cycle which means that, unless there's a break somewhere, queer Indian media will remain unrecognized. I'm excited to see what other people have to say, because this is a topic close to my heart and I'd definitely enjoy seeing more discussions around it.

[absolutebl]

thai language question! what do tongthap and atom call each other in MLMU TH? it sounds like ‘nai’ or maybe ‘ngai’? it’s translated to both of their names several times on the YT subs. i’ve tried to look it up but i’m not sure i’m hearing it right 🙈

Thai pronoun: Nai

They are indeed using nai. Hold on I know I posted about that one at some point... AH HA here it is:

you want this section: (but I'll c&p it over here add to it at the bottom)

Nai & the Mafia 

So in 2022 Thai BLs seriously started moving setting outside of the school systems and thus added new pronouns (for us watchers) into the mix. KinnPorsche, Even Sun, and Unforgotten Night all use the pronoun nai (นาย) for you between men. Like many honorifics & pronouns, it’s derived from a minor title of nobility. In the 19th century it was declared the official courtesy title for adult males - regarded as a direct translation of “Mr”. 

It has several different uses today. 

As a title, it only appears before the real given name (not surname), in official/formal contexts, e.g. when writing down one’s name on an exam paper, job application, or government form. If used with a nickname, it implies a bit of irony (like a teacher calling out a misbehaving student). 

As a pronoun, it’s usually an informal second-person pronoun used with males of equal status. It’s a decidedly non-rude word, so it’ll be used among friends/classmates if they don’t feel close enough to use gu/mueng (or if a person just doesn’t use rude pronouns, like swear words there are people who don’t feel comfortable ever saying guu/mueng). 

Rao/nai as pronouns used to be the default mode of address on TV before gu/mueng became acceptable to broadcast in the 2010s. 

When used by females, nai is pretty much equivalent to males using ter with females - so an old fashioned but intimate and sweet, loving. 

On TV, the use of ter/nai is probably most often associated with straight dramas in the acquaintance phase of courting. 

Nai also has the meaning “boss” (similarly to the combined form เจ้านาย (jao nai/chao nai). If it’s being used as a pronoun in a more formal or deferential context (like organized crime), it is used in this sense. 

Usage number 2 & 6 are the ones we see in Thai BL. All that said I understand as a tourist in Thailand, you will hear nai but not all that often. It’s fine to use khun instead/back, but good to know to identify nai. 

Nai & My Love Mix Up

So My Love Mix Up is using #2.

With adult males, nai is actually often paired with chan. (I know, right, but it's what they use. See any of the mafia shows.)

But in this high school setting, Atom & Kongthap seem to be using pom or sometimes even tan. (I haven't touched on tan at all because I find it the most confusing pronoun.)

Atom & Half use guu/mueng. Atom use rao/name with Mudmee, and she does they same with him. Although I think she shifts to chan with Half when they get closer.

Kongthap doesn't seem to ever use informal. Even Half uses nai with him.

So I think the use of polite nai in this relationship is being dictated by Kongthap's character's reserved gentlemanly stiffness (much as in the original show). In other words, were it not for Kongthap's personality, this show in this setting (and with this pair) would be using guu/mueng. But because of the original IP and the extreme reserve of Ida in Kieta Hatsukoi (who also uses quite formal Japanese) we are seeing a linguistic characterization of one half of a couple carry through to the tenor of the whole relationship.

In other words, the use of nai was dictated by Kongthap's personality.

Frankly put, Kongthap would simply not use guu/mueng so they had to find some other way for these two to communicate. Rao/ter is too sweet and cute and old fashioned out the gate (these boys could graduate to it, I suppose, like in college or after).

Now they might have used khun instead of nai. If this were set in uni or the office that would have worked fine. Or even if this were a high school in Bangkok. But I'm not surprised they reached for nai.

In fact, since the announcement of the adaptation I was curious about how they were going to approach Kongthap's pronouns. I thought they might make Kongthap older to solve the issue with phi but they wanted to do the "going away to college together?" part of the plot, so yeah... nai is the solution.

This couple sounds a bit stiff and distanced from each other when speaking together as a result, but I understand why the script chose it.

Hope that explains.

(source)

[bengiyo]

Hi, i'm a newish bl drama watcher from thailand that just started watching thai bls. i'm a bit ashamed to say that for a long time as a gay man living here i've been avoiding bl shows like the plague cuz of both the fandom reputation and of misconception from my yaoi era which i leave far behind. i'm just want to ask how did you got into watching thai bls and what were you preconception before you got into it.

Welcome to the Tumblr side of BL fandom. I'd actually like to also hear more of your experience with yaoi and BL as a gay person growing up in Thailand if you're willing to share.

For me, I'm a Black American from the Gulf Coast (the South). I grew up in a Catholic city and spent my entire adolescence in the closet. Despite having a sense of who I was as early as 8 years old, I kept most of that to myself. Because I didn't talk about it much with people, I found out most information about queer media and queerness from the internet.

I entered BL via queer cinema. I think the first explicitly gay character that I remember from TV was Marco from Degrassi: The Next Generation. There were probably others, and definitely more subtle expressions, but when I think about the oldest gay character I remember and connect to, it's Marco. I don't like counting things like shipping Shawn and Corey on Boy Meets World or Tai and Matt on Digimon for oldest gay characters. Sailor Moon can't even count because we got a censored version of it in America.

I got access to satellite television away from observing eyes around age 16 and started watching content on Logo back when they aired gay content regularly. I watched basically whatever I could late at night. It's how I saw movies like Get Real (1998), Beautiful Thing (1996), and Bent (1997). It's also how I saw Queer as Folk (2000-2005) Noah's Arc (2005-06).

After hitting adulthood I mostly got lost in video games and standard American TV for a while, but I did basically show up to any Gay Event in TV. I appreciate that Stef and Lena from The Fosters (2013-2018) were some of the only TV lesbians to survive the horror of 2016.

I watched a bunch of movies in this time, many of which appear on the Queer Cinema Syllabus I made for a hypothetical Westerner new to BL and queer cinema, which @wen-kexing-apologist has decided to try to complete.

I got into Thai BL in 2018 accidentally. I started seeing gifsets of Kongpob telling Arthit he'll make him his wife passing around Tumblr and was basically like, "Right, what's all this then?"

I had watched a few Thai gay films, mostly notably Love of Siam (2007), Bangkok Love Story (2007), How to Win at Checkers Every Time (2015), and The Blue Hour (2015), but this was the first time I was seeing a long series made available so easily from any Asian country.

From there I got into Make It Right (2016-17) and Love Sick the series (2014). Once I realized that yaoi had moved beyond manga and a few anime adaptations, I went looking for a lot more. I basically haven't left since I started in about 2016 with SOTUS.

There's my basic entry into the genre. I don't think I was as worried about fandom and worries at the time because so much of being a fan of queer cinema was a mostly-private experience for me for so long. I didn't realize that BL fans active in the space would predominantly be women or queers figuring themselves out. It took a while to adjust to that, and also to adjust my expectations of the kinds of queer stories BL distributors were willing to fund.

That being said, I tend to agree with @absolutebl that BL has a useful role in normalization for non-queer audiences who encounter it. I like cheering BL when it does things I think work really well, and also deriding it when I think it does things that are offensive to help nudge the genre and offer my perspective as a gay man.

I like the place we're at right now where there's way too much to watch for any person with other hobbies and responsibilities because it means that people can pick and choose what's to their tastes.

More often than not, I'm probably most-invested in something airing from Japan because of my melancholy nature, but there's so much variety these days that it's okay if you don't like everything. I certainly don't!

I'm glad you joined us on Tumblr and look forward to your thoughts!

[raelle-writing]

Jin lying and police corruption

This is cross-posted from my co-run fan account on Twitter, @.DFF_Fanatics. Co-credit for this thread goes to @kerrikins the co-admin of Fanatics.

I think we inter fans should keep in mind that we don't have all the cultural context. People are mad that Jin didn't tell the police about Non's disappearance, but they forget that police corruption is very real - both within the narrative of DFF itself, as well in Thai culture in general.

It's shown a couple of times throughout episode 8 that the police can't be trusted. Once, when Phee's dad is threatened for sticking his nose into things and told to close the case, and basically says there's nothing he can do against that...

And again, when we see that Tee's uncle has a high-ranking policeman in his pocket.

The police are investigating Non's disappearance, yes. But the people pulling the strings of those investigations don't want him to be found. The mafia were the ones who made Non and Keng disappear, and there are businessmen behind that who are in on the money laundering. If Jin had spoken up about what happened in the forest, he likely would've disappeared as well - or been killed.

Not to mention it would've been just his word against the others. Fluke wouldn't have backed Jin up, and Por went so far as to delete footage to erase evidence. They would've immediately turned on him. They would've said it was all his idea, that he drugged Non and sold him off. They would've sold Jin up the creek to keep themselves safe.

Also from Jin's point of view - he just watched his friends drug Non, then take him away and then Non vanished. He knows he has no one he can trust, no one he can turn too. And he also knows that Tee's family is in the mix, that Tee is the one behind the money laundering they all got caught up into. I don't blame him for being scared.

We've seen what these people will do to those who get in their way. Not only to Non, but also to Keng. If they didn't hesitate to make a famous tutor disappear, then why would they hesitate to make another high schooler disappear? Jin would've been next if he'd said anything, and likely he knew that.

Did Jin do what's right? No. But arguably there was no right choice in this scenario. It was lie to the police because he didn't know who he could trust, or risk that he would be the next to disappear. And given that he's 17 years old, has no evidence, no one to back him up, and doesn't know who he can trust AND he knows that the mafia are involved? Yeah. I understand why he bent to the pressure and lied to the police.

You can see on his face that he hates himself for it, for taking that side. But considering the alternatives, I don't blame him in the slightest for not trusting the police, or his friends.

Police corruption isn't just a problem in DFF, it's been addressed in other Thai BLs such as Manner of Death or Not Me. My co-admin and I also gathered some tweets from Thai DFF-watchers that talk about this, because you can tell that it's a very real issue in Thai society.

Disclaimer that it's not to say that ALL Thai fans are on Jin's side, there's some that are definitely not. I just selected a few so that you could see that DFF isn't just spinning a narrative, it's relying on real-world issues too.

Please also check out this anon I got about police corruption in their country, for further perspective...

[my-rose-tinted-glasses]

Non BL Fan watches Only Friends

Hey. Yeah so I'm still on this. So when Only Friends ended, it left kinda of a bitter taste in my mouth. I liked a lot of things about it but by the end it really didn’t leave a good impression. There’s been a lot written about it, about expectations, and branded pairs, and how fandom may have played a role in this, and how the writing maybe because of that kinda took a turn midway through the show. And it kept bugging me that these opinions were also rooted in our understanding of this type of media, and everything that comes with it. Be it branded pairs, all the bls that came before or the industry as a whole. But I couldn't really have any perspective because I'm part of the problem. I'm too close. So, the only way for me to kinda get over this was to get someone far removed from this to watch it. And here is where my friend Neely comes in. They're not a bl watcher. The only bl they ever watched was Choco Milk Shake which I think we can all agree would not influence their viewing of Only Friends. They are however the only person who I talk to about bl, or the only person who has the patience to listen to me, whenever I’m feeling particularly annoyed about something or just wanna share a good moment. I immediately sent them the olive oil scene (with only a tiny bit of context) because it was so beautiful that I needed to scream with someone about it. So anyway, I asked them to watch the show. They knew a couple of things about it, because I complained to them about it at the time, but they has no reference for it so, I don’t think that I influenced the viewing that much. Also they're pretty unbiased about everything.

So last night they watched the first 4 episodes and I’d like to share their thoughts with everyone who like me might be curious. Because they're the best person ever, he wrote a whole text about it so I could share. Also we're almost at the end of the year and this might be the thing that finally closes this chapter for me. This is what they had to say after watching the first 4 episodes.

(I'll be adding my own thoughts in purple)

After 4 episodes, mostly I think it's really predictable plot wise for anyone who's watched a general TV western series, like a Netflix production, which I was maybe surprised. The ways to cause drama and plot advancement are very similar. Of cpurse this is me saying this based on the other BL I watched (Choco Milk Shake) which felt much more out of the expected canon.

Just to get this out of the way: they're all toxic and terrible people, to the extent I find it very hard to connect to any of them. Just in the exposure parts of ep1 there's all of them being horrible to Ray for being drunk – even though they also are? - and to top it up later on they're all drunk, and the woman (sorry I should know her name but it's not like they're giving her any storyline or screen time (aside from, I almost forgot, randomly spraining her ankle 😂) for me to remember) I thought that the fact that this was obvious to them from the beginning was very interesting because I maybe gave them more rope in the beginning to expand on her because I thought she was gonna get more later. she's even drunker it seems but they all fall on Ray only; they literally complain he wants another drink and judgementally go "ewww more drinks don't you think it's enough" and dig into his drinking, he leaves, and then they continue drinking? This got even darker to me when the suicide attempt is revealed, and from then it became really hard to consider them friends? Maybe Mew and Ray but the dynamics of that are anyway weird. This is something I myself struggled with all through the show, like how are these people even friends? and I understand the point illustrated by @bengiyo in this post but I still couldn’t get over that. And maybe that’s just the way I see friendships that these people looked even worse in my eyes. Like I cannot compute them treating Ray like that, even if they're done of his drinking, when they know where he's at emotionally. It also doesn't feel they ever tried to help him so I don't think they have the right to be done, just feels like they don't care.

Top, toxic from day one with this challenge attitude towards fucking the virgin; and the gross way he speaks about it with Boston. It's a big no from me to both of them. It's not even them hooking up for me, Top is just kinda sleazy, manipulative, hyper entitled, I do not take anything he says as truth because he just feels so double faced to me. Even just these episodes he's already shown so many cracks: hiding the hook up with Boston (which I'm beginning to feel was more than a hook up?), the whole random drug dealing thing, how he objectifies Mew like a virgin-trophy when talking to Boston, how he manipulates him and also his weird jealousy and control. Ok, this is where I admit I was completely wrong. I thought that way of seeing Top was very influenced by the promotional material and the way the crew and actors talked about the character. And yet, without any prior knowledge he immediately disliked him. I was not expecting that to be honest. And in this case maybe I just wanted the character to go in a different direction so I kept not seeing the pretty obvious red flags. I mean I saw them but tried really hard to look behind them. My bad. Although we could both agree that he’s gorgeous.

I don't like Mew, but I don't think it's the characters fault or how it's written. It's just the troupe of character writing, especially in gay shows, that I can't stand. It's kinda cancer vibes (astrology lol). A bit not necessarily overt but a general sense of holier than thou cause he's a virgin and "has standards". I don't think he's leading Ray on, I think he actually kinda communicates well he just wants friendship. He could be clearer but also this is TV, so we need slight unclearness for drama purposes lol, but I'm not mad about that. Miss communication is the bane of my existence but it apparently makes for compelling television. Or not.

But generally this hot fuck everyone guy falling for the kinda dorky virgin is so dull to me, this virgin is always this weird insert of purity, more often than not an insert where the writer in one way or another projects himself into, to be able to judge the rest of the community, the moral compass (read: normative in terms of society expectations, also kinda mildly Christian coded, like girl next door in the village), and I do always find it a bit queerphobic. I'm not saying there aren't queers like that and that they shouldn't be represented, but the very intense and obvious writing decisions to position him as this moral center (also visually he's always wearing whites and pastels? Virgin mew, Virgin Mary! Lol) that makes all the other characters, often queer, seem kinda dirty and mean and unprincipled. I have nothing to add here because I agree with them on most of this, and I also think that it was never a coincidence to have a virgin in the middle of this group, to serve as the barometer of right and wrong. Cause he's the pure one so he must know what's right. I disliked mew almost instantly when the show started, because I always thought he was just a terrible friend and that’s the greatest sin of all. A small note that I think it's hilariously dumb that he's been protecting his Virginity for all this time and so like "omg it's hard for me, omg I go slow, omg I have a check list" and then it's like "you drop coke I drop pants", virginity done lol. This was just funny and accurate.

I am not talking about Boston right now cause I hate him. And I also hate that they wrote the slut in such a cliche but I do think they did. I remember you saying something people attacking him too much and him being slut-shamed, but he's written as villain quite clearly. Lol I think he's leading mobile phone shop guy on, it's very player manipulation vibe to be always giving him just a bit more to keep him going and the promise of something more open, when we know he just wants to fuck, and especially fuck when he's butt hurt about Top and Mew. And the way he's treating Mew, terrible friend; and also the advances on Top are far from boundary and consent-based lol. But also Top doesn't feel very interested in getting out, he just weirdly stands there silent being licked in the neck, so I blame both on that whole thing. I have to say that I never really read the shower scene like others might have, like obviously Boston was being terrible to Mew in that moment and not respecting Top's boundaries, but I also didn't see Top as helpless in this moment.

I think the only pair that gets away with actually being cute and not toxic and manipulative is Sand and Ray, they're my faves. Yey!! I find them very endearing and with so much chemistry. They're the only characters who honestly genuinely said sorry to each other and had some accountability when they fucked up with each other.

Even tho I'd like a bit more from Sand about the whole "burden to society" comments at the start - they annoyed me so much. The others it's manipulation after manipulation for me, and it doesn't allow me to get into them so it feels like deep lack of chemistry. Top and Mew's relationship feels really really really meh to me. And I don't know why they're friends, also cause very little of them as friends gets shown after ep1. Well they have the school project that keeps them together but other than that really, why? As I explained above I really struggled with the friendship aspect of all this.

But generally, I feel like the editing and writing are very like Mew is amazing and the others are horrible, and we do just get scenes of everyone being shit and Mew not being great but being naive and cutesy with a hint of superiority. Also you're a virgin your not a thumb stone, give your boyfriend a kiss sometimes. I thought this comment was hilarious but also obviously from a non bl watcher because that didn’t register to me, because I’m so used to boyfriends being so shy around kissing in bl that it didn't even cross my mind.

I think I'm slightly meh by all of them but partly is maybe my expectations too - I knew this one specifically was a bit westernized, but I was nurturing this little idea that it would feel a bit different, that some of the ways things were explored would feel different because of the cultural differences, but I do think you could sub all of the actors for white us-americans and the script would fly, you could probably even set it in a progressive state in the us and wouldn't have to re-write much.

So, I might totally be talking out of my ass, but what I'm left thinking is: is there really no culturally specificity to queer community there? is really all queerness and promiscuity in Thailand this performance of the west? Maybe it is, because of different social rules and expectations and freedoms, I really am not knowledgeable enough, but I'm just wondering if it's that or if it's just being made to be more palatable to me. And I think that's fine as a choice for them to know target audience, but I'm left wondering how the actual scene is in Thailand, what the social pressures are there and how they navigate them, specifically at this nexus of queerness and promiscuity. I also don’t know enough about the culture in Thailand to speak about it but I do agree with the point that this show could be made in us tv and they really wouldn’t need to change much. Without knowing anything about the creators of ofts, aside from the fact that they’re queer, they said later that they would compare it to something that Ryan Murphy could produce.

_

After I read this I had a chance to video chat with them briefly , and there were a couple more things that came up that I thought were really interesting. they were asking me about the actors and how well known they were, etc. Because they thought that the characters were purposefully being shown as really flat, and just bad with no redeemable characteristics and that maybe because the fandom already knew them and already liked them, they could do that without needing to waste time making us care for them, by giving us their good sides. Which I never really considered, but as with most things, our prior knowledge might play a part in this too. I know at least for me, I'm not gonna lie, the fact that I like Khaotung definitely made me care for Ray from the start in a way that maybe I wouldn't normally have.

Anyway, they'll continue to watch it and I'll probably post more of thoughts in the future. I also started to rewatch it slowly so I'll definitely keep thinking about this. If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. 💜

[gmmtv-bl-tournament]

Welcome to the official start of the GMMTV Non-BL Tournament!

These sixteen series were nominated by you 🫵 and, as with the BL tournament, ranked using a combination of MDL ratings and number of watchers (with a slight tweak on my end based on nominations).

A reminder that you can shit talk as much as you want on the polls themselves (I encourage it, really) but refrain from sending them to my inbox, especially anonymously. Say it with your whole chest on your own blog. I'm not acting as a facilitator.

Link to Round 1 polls

This tournament is organized with the specific goal of bringing attention to two Gazan campaigns.

The first is one organized for Layan by her mother. Layan is a 12 year old girl in Gaza who needs urgent treatment and her mother is trying to raise funds to evacuate her and her brother as soon as the border crossing opens. Donations are slow and they are extremely low on funds (€657/€17000). This campaign is vetted by @/gazavetters (#108 on their list) and @/gaza-evacuation-funds here. You can follow her mother @/layanramy.

The second one is for the Shawwa family. The four sisters' only brother was martyred in July and they are trying to raise funds for necessities ($6762 USD/$25000 USD). The Shawwa family are relatives of Ola who has been vetted by @/el-shab-hussein (#205). You can follow them @/najwa-shawwa.

Please donate to these campaigns if you can ❤

[chaoticdelinqueerwithglitter]

Yes,I'm gonna talk about THE KISS 💜🌈

I'm still jumping around my home and seeing all the Kokonui edits I can find, 24h later and the hype doesn't go away.

So I wanna talk about why seeing this kiss animated (specially in such a beautiful way, really, thanks Liden Films), was so important for me.

I started to watch anime when I was little and, besides Dragon Ball, Sakura and Sailormoon were the first animes that really catch my attention.

Sakura specially will always have a place in my heart 💜

(and yes, I know CLAMP had a lot of dark shit going on on their mangas, but when I was a kid, I only saw the queerness and that made me happy)

I was around eight/nine years old, it was the end of the 90s and the queer representation in occident was... Terrible. It didn't almost exist and was full of "kill your gays" and queerbating.

Suddenly, I was watching a show were it was okay for a girl like Tomoyo being in love with her best friend, were nobody had any problem with Xioran being oppenly bisexual (he likes Yukito before Sakura), were Toya and Yukito became my first ship ever. I used to scream to the tv with their scenes, saying things like "okay, gave Yukito your magic, but say that you love him Toya! Focus! Kiss!"

Then, Sailormoon had Sailor Neptune and Sailor Uranus that were girlfriends. More than one character with genderfuckery. The three Sailor Stars that were genderfluid in a legendary level.

Ranma was also there. Non-binary dream for me, thanks Ranma 💜

I'm saying that, for a queer kid in the 90s, the level of genderfuckery that anime had made me felt seen. Made me felt like I wasn't that weird for liking the girls in my class, for not feeling like a boy or a girl (even if it took me decades to realize why). This characters, this representations, made me felt less alone. Made me think for the first time in my life, that there was other people like me, that being straight and follow gender roles wasn't the only choice out there.

Edit, because I forgot to mention Utena. The girl that refuses to adapt to gender roles and ends ups becoming her own prince and saving her girlfriend from the abusive brother. Utena was also mythical for me.

Of course, not everything was wholesome in the way of portraying queer representation in anime and manga, I'm not saying that.

So that was what got me into anime, what made me start buying manga with my small allowance.

A few years later, I discovered fanfiction.net, yaoi and BL. I found a place on the internet full of people shipping characters that were like me. A place were it was safe being queer. I also started getting into shonen, were the queerness wasn't as magical as in shoujo, but thanks mostly to the fandom, it was still there. I could ship them even if it wasn't canon, because most of this characters never had a romantic interest, so... Who said they were straight? (Obviously, even if they were in canon, we could ship them anyway)

And this is what I'm trying to say. More than twenty years later of seeing myself in a character like Tomoyo, of starting to ship gay couples in anime...

I COULD FINALLY SEE A GAY KISS BEING ANIMATED IN A SHONEN!!!

(I insist, in such a beautiful and perfect way)

So no matter what you think about this ship, about Koko and Inupi relationship, no matter if you like it or you hate it...

What happened yesterday was really important for a lot of people. Because having referents, can save queer people lives. Is that simple.

So thanks Liden Films, thanks Ken Wakui 💜

Of course, I also had a big hype when this scene happened in the manga and Wakui gave us so much gay subtext (not so subtle most of the time), that I could make a whole post about queerness in Tokyo Revengers. But let's be honest, there is a lot of only anime watchers out there. Or a lot of people that, like me, discovered manga thanks to anime.

[emotionallychargedtowel]

A Conversation with My Twin About Not Me and Twinship

My twin sister @porridgefeast and I had a discussion over chat about our thoughts on Not Me and how it handled issues of twinship. This is a transcript of our conversation. It's been tidied up a bit and we left out some personal tangents and stuff, but it's still a chat transcript, so there's crosstalk and stuff. I've added some explanatory notes using asterisks here and there. Our tumblr handles have been shortened and color-coded for ease of reading.

This is long! If you don't have the setting enabled where long posts get shortened in your feed, you might be scrolling for a while.

Porridge and I have both done a lot of thinking and had a lot of discussions about twinship over the years, including the portrayal of twins in media. I'm also a mother of twins, which gives me another perspective on this stuff. We're both avid BL watchers but Porridge is more knowledgeable about Thai BL than I am.

emotionallychargedtowel (“towel”) I think I have a pretty good starting question. To what extent is Not Me a singleton* fantasy about twinship vs. an actual portrayal of twinship? What are the most authentic-seeming bits?

*a singleton is a person who was born from a single pregnancy, i.e., someone who isn't a twin, triplet, etc.

porridgefeast (“porridge”) There are definitely aspects that are the bedrock of the story that are singleton fantasy, no question.

towel Personally I think a lot of it is more along the lines of a singleton fantasy but I was surprised by some moments that touched on twin stuff that seldom gets talked about in media.

porridge Much of the time I don't care to scratch below the surface too much on this sort of thing, because I liked that I enjoyed the experience of watching the show. But if I were actively interrogating the show I would have one major question.

towel You know, I was thinking about the whole thing where twinship intersects with romantic and/or sexual relationships in this show, and I realized that when I was thinking about that before it was all about Sean but I was forgetting about Black's girlfriend

porridge And that would be: in Not Me universe, do all twins have psychic connections? Or just some? Or just White & Black?

towel That's a good question. At the very least it doesn't seem like something non-twins are aware of. I guess if it was universal, maybe they would.

porridge Also, I'm guessing they don't have the connection *because of* the earlier near-drowning. Because their parents say something after that along the lines of “We can't let this keep happening.” IIRC

towel I'd have to circle back but I think there was supposed to be some precedent for it before the near-drowning incident. Right!

porridge Is it because they're extra close? Because their parents suck? It just seems like it could be an interesting area to explore. Like, for the show to have explored.

towel That's a good question. My guess is that the show would say that's just their magical connection, but who knows?

One thing that I think appeals to singletons about the psychic twins trope

porridge I think the incredibly vague implication is "because special."

towel If on some level they're thinking of twins as two halves of one person, then it makes intuitive sense that they would be able to communicate their thoughts and feelings. It's sort of like two people with one brain. Like, the fantasy of two people who are separate but also not works better if they communicate their feelings/thoughts.

porridge Yeah, I think twins seem interesting to singletons because they're paradoxical to them—two people who are kind of one person and kind of not.

towel But also it's a fantasy, though not always a pleasant one. A fantasy of oneness but also a fantasy of the horror of...I guess you could say losing one's individuality.

porridge Yeah, it can feel like singletons think twins are exotic but also kind of gross.

towel Oh, definitely. It's funny because it's related to a real struggle that twins have but singletons don't get it at all.

porridge Occasionally it feels like they feel superior. And it's like uh what? Because you're an individual? Guess what, me too.

towel Yeah, I think that's true.

porridge You're just as much a slave to your genetics as I am, bub.

towel Right!

porridge Like, singletons don't have anything I don't have except for a lack of, like, people acting confused at them.

towel I always think about that girl who told me how much she'd always wanted a twin in high school. “Someone just like me, who I'd have everything in common with. We'd never fight.”

porridge Hopefully that person eventually grew up and became less of a goober.

towel Ridiculous but I appreciate that she was so lacking in the filter department that she voiced what I think plenty of singletons think on some level/at some times.

porridge That's one thing about singletons' thoughts about twinship. I get that they haven't examined a lot of their assumptions and of course I can relate to that when it comes to other things in my own life. But you just want to go “Stop. Think about it for literally ten seconds.”

towel So often they clearly haven't. Like that person who asked when my birthday was and then asked when yours was. And was then like, “Wow, what a coincidence!” when I said they were the same. (They figured it out but it took, like, a minute or two)

porridge I think when some singletons put themselves in twins' shoes, they don't put *themselves* in our shoes. They put some imaginary magical twin version of themselves in our shoes.

towel Definitely.

Well, it tends to be really polarized. Either being a twin is this lovely sense of communion with another human being or it's a terrifying thing where someone is going to steal your life

And then there are the times they don't put themselves in our shoes and just find us scary.

porridge I often prefer media depictions of the latter simply because I want so badly to correct for the former. Oh for sure. This is part of why I like that movie Adaptation so much.

towel Though that brings up something that happens in Not Me as well, one singleton actor playing twin characters.

That's something at least. There's a part of me that wants to say, “No more singletons playing twins. Get some danged twins. Or make them fraternal.”

porridge To go back to your question a little. I think the elevator pitch and general concept is a singleton fantasy, but at least some elements of the actual events are more like reality. It felt like somebody actually bothered to think through what that would be like.

towel Yeah, same here.

porridge Like, as I said when I wrote about it, the part where White is like Black won't come back, he's let me have my place in this group and we both know we can't both be part of it.

towel Yeah, there's that quote, “Nobody wants to live in another person's shadow” or something to that effect. I find it both sort of insightful and ridiculous at the same time. Like “everybody knows two twins can't both be in the same activist cell.” Uh, no.

But yeah, sometimes it seems like you can't be in the same space or group in certain ways

porridge Yeah that's not true. It's just that White now has closer relationships with each of those people.

towel And it may be true, though it's almost never entirely clear.

porridge It's not impossible for twins to be part of the same close group, but it's not always easy either. And that's partly because of the people around them.

towel And it depends so much on circumstances. Yes! And the other people involved.

[conversation ensues about people from school trying to get Porridge to make Towel talk less in class]

towel I was thinking about how polarized White and Black are. To me that's a bit of a red flag, when twins are even sort of opposites. And it's not true that White is perfect or that Black is evil but White is mostly right about things, mostly nice, occasionally cranky but that's about it, and Black is very hostile, clearly not in a great mental health place, etc.

They're closer to being all good and all bad than I'd like

porridge Yeah, I may have let that go partly because it wasn't quite as bad as I might have feared. But it's not ideal either.

towel It definitely could be worse. But it reminded me of the "which one are you" thing, which you certainly remember but I'm going to lay it out here for posterity.

"Are you the smart one or the [ableist word for unintelligent] one?" "Are you the nice one or the mean one?" and so forth. I used to blame the Sweet Valley High books and they certainly didn't help, but the twins-as-opposites thing is everywhere.

porridge Being at summer camp and me being "the brave one." I'm not sure what that made you exactly? If the description were correct it would have been "the homesick one," but there wasn't enough subtlety for that. Really it was the one who cries and the one who doesn't cry even when kicked by a horse. But that second part was just because in the fight/flight/freeze department, I'm a freezer.

towel Same, usually. I've tried to figure out why that is so appealing to singletons. My best guess is that maybe they like the idea of splitting a person into good and bad and then running the bad half out of town, so to speak.

It's a bit like that Buffy episode, actually. The Replacement. [There's a monster/wizard dude who wants to turn Buffy into a strong half and a weak half so he can kill the weak half and get rid of her entirely, but he hits Xander with his magic beam thingy instead.] It's worth noting that that's one of the only examples I can think of where instead of having one actor play twins they had Nicholas Brendon's twin brother play his double. I mean, it's one of the only examples I can think of where they had twins play a person and their double.

porridge There's arguably a whole separate treatise to write about the doppelganger concept and why it's compelling.

towel Yep

porridge For whatever reason I don't feel able to touch on it briefly, I can only go full tangent or kind of wave in its general direction.

towel I'm OK with either. I mean, a big part of the doppelganger thing is the fear that if someone resembles you they'll be able to take your entire life away from you.

porridge It's one of those things that has some perceptions-of-twins mixed up in it, but seems more about identity from the POV of singletons than anything else.

Yep. And that's the entire crux of that Buffy episode.

towel I do think their assumptions inform the doppelganger thing and twin stuff in a similar way.

porridge Yeah, it's from the point of view of singletons, thrilling themselves with fear that a nefarious twin could appear.

towel There's also the whole question of, like, if people met your double and did know it wasn't you, what would they be perceiving? How would that work? Do people have some kind of essence to them that we can distinguish?

I mean, obviously in reality the difference would be that person's behavior. And that comes up in Not Me.

porridge Seems like a lost opportunity that AFAIK nobody's ever made a body-snatcher film where a twin is a plot point.

But like I said when I wrote about the show,* as twins we know that people would just think the person they know is being weird for a very long time before they would go to a twin as an explanation. At least if those twins look as much alike as White & Black do.

*Check out the older post Porridge is talking about here.

towel Yeah, that's true. I think if Sean had figured it out sooner that would have really bothered me, for that exact reason.

porridge I mean, I say this as somebody who took ages to realize a friend was psychotic because I was convinced he was just really mad at me for a few months.

towel That's just human nature, though. We keep using the heuristics that worked for us for a long time. And most of the time that's the right thing to do.

porridge All I needed was for somebody to say "So [friend], do you think maybe..." without finishing the question before I was like yes. Shit!

towel When Sean asked if Black had a twin brother, a part of me felt kind of impressed that he figured it out. I can't decide if it's actually realistic or not. Like, would it ever occur to me, if someone started acting really different, that they might have a secret twin?

porridge Even then it was partly because of something somebody else said.*

*Porridge thought she remembered something to this effect, but so far neither of us has been able to track down the quote she remembered, or thought she remembered. But neither of us has fully rewatched Not Me since this discussion, so maybe it's there and we just didn't find it.

towel Still, it's either that Sean was really astute there, to a potentially unrealistic degree, or he had a theory that would have been incredibly dopey except that it happened to be true. I guess it's kind of both? He was astute and the theory would be dopey most of the time.*

*Since this conversation, I (Towel) have had some more thoughts about this that I'll put in another post soon.

porridge I guess that's one area where the implausibility sort of cycles back to making the plot make sense.

towel Heh, right.

porridge It makes more sense that he figured it out because they are so different. That's kind of a fantasy too. Like, "the person who loves me would definitely know if I wasn't me."

That reminds me of something I could ask you.

Wondering if you had a similar reaction to something. When Sean finds White (out of his Black drag), I had an unexpected rush of emotion. I was glad they were going to talk (presumably) with the twin stuff out in the open but it wasn't just that. I almost didn't care about Sean, but the fact that he was seeing White-as-White made it more real that yeah, this is actually White. White is getting to be himself now. It was like gender euphoria I guess only it was individuality euphoria.

towel That's interesting. I think I might try to peek at that scene real quick if that's OK.

porridge I think it was also because prior to that we'd only seen Black for a while.

towel I think I'm almost at the right spot but in the meantime, the recap for the part I pulled up included the whole denying he's a twin thing ("Twin, my ass!") immediately followed by "Stop messing with my little brother!"

Omg, Black's bitchy face when he throws the handcuff key away.

I don't identify with Black a whole lot and he's honestly a bit incoherent as a character, like somebody's pushing faders up and down with his various traits depending on what they need to have happen plotwise. But even though I don't want him to keep White away from Sean & the others I still kinda feel for him there.

That's pretty true. Well, I think they're kind of deciding if he needs to be the opposite right now or if he needs to be someone who cares for White and/or their cause.

porridge Bit of a damn right moment.

towel Yeah, there are a few relatable things there.

Being protective of your twin is real, of course. And he doesn't like Sean and probably has seen a really bad side of him because of how contentious their relationship is. There's also an element of feeling jealous and/or threatened by your twin's romantic relationships, which I found was more of a thing when we were younger. It's something that's pretty embarrassing so it's hard to talk about and I think often gets swept under the rug, but it's real and it's understandable. I wonder if there's a homophobia and/or gender role thing going on there. Like, does Black perceive White as being in a more vulnerable or feminine position in his relationship with Sean and if so does that seem more like Sean is taking advantage of him somehow?

porridge Could be. We know from earlier events that Black is very protective of White.

I don't feel strongly that I know the motivation there.

But I could make one argument for a possible interpretation. It could be that Black wants to protect White from Sean because he doesn't like Sean, but mostly he wants to protect White from their radical activities, keep him away from lawbreaking and risks.

towel It's kind of perfect that when Sean finds White-not-dressed-up-as-Black he not only has his glasses on (which seem to symbolize White being White for a lot of the remainder of the show) but a white t-shirt, something that gets dirty easily and wouldn't hold up well in Black's style of life.

porridge And he could resent Sean that much more as a result for keeping White tied to them in another way.

towel That's true.

porridge That interpretation is sort of optimistic in the sense of giving the writers a lot of credit. But I think it's plausible.

Even if Black isn't consciously homophobic, there's a subtler kind of gender thing / homophobia-lite factor that could be in play. Where that person suddenly seems more vulnerable than if they were with a girl.

towel Yeah, I think so. And I think they may seem more vulnerable than if they were perceived as being "the man" in that relationship

porridge And he's smaller, etc. He's new to the group and to their risk-taking, etc. Bunch of things connect. But of course the gender piece isn't rational or correct. It's just the sort of residue of homophobia that gets in people's brains.

towel I'm trying to remember that meme or whatever it is. About the horror of being known versus...well, the appeal of things that require that you are known

That meme is what came to mind watching this scene where Sean meets White as himself.

porridge One more thing about that scene. I also liked how relieved Sean seems when he learns White's name. That seemed meaningful. No idea how much of that is me looking through my twin lens.

towel I guess it's "the mortifying ordeal of being known." I think White is very much having the mortifying ordeal in that scene. I just went back to the scene and that's where I was, at the point where Sean asks White his name.

It's a remarkable thing to have fallen in love with a person and not to know their real name but you can imagine how much you would want to know.

[discussion of doctoral program practica and names]

porridge Yeah. Watching back a little and a big part of Sean's epiphany is that Black doesn't catch him in a trust fall. Just looks at him like he's an idiot. A big part at that moment; it's clearly a test so he already suspects.

towel Good point. It's remarkable that after Black has already behaved this way he still does that trust fall without holding back.

I thought it was interesting when they had White think, in voiceover, that he was surprised that he could feel so close to Sean, that he thought he could only feel that close to his twin. I go back and forth on what I think about that. I'm not super fond of the comparison because it's such a different type of connection. But I guess I can relate to it in some ways. Especially when you're young, it can be surprising when anyone can be close to you in a way that's even sort of comparable to your twin. Okey doke. How about a silly question to mull over?

porridge Yeah sure

towel If we were in a world that operated under Not Me universe rules

Who would I have to sleep with to make you wake up from a coma? I tried to think of a real [porridge] nemesis and the only person who came to mind was someone who used to work in your office whose name starts with a [letter].

porridge HA

towel I wouldn't go near her with a ten-foot pole except maybe if it would bring you back to life. Works for me!

[Porridge’s answer is somebody she was very close to at one time who she then had a sort of friend breakup with. then we talk about emotionally unavailable people and those who are attracted to them.]

Lemme see here. I was trying to remember what happened with White and Eugene. I spaced out a little at that part and I wonder if it's because I was getting pretty uncomfortable with the idea of White pretending to be Black with Eugene. I think they kissed? And I was like, please get out of this situation. But I think I spaced out on the show in an avoidant way at that point because I can't remember if anything else happened between them or if he got away and if so, how.

porridge He actually drugs her which is not great...

towel Gracious

porridge He's in a position where he's trying to avoid a lot of things while trying to get some information from her about what happened to Black, and he doesn't do anything to her while she's knocked out. But it's not an okay thing to do by any means.

towel I was going to look up the Eugene scene and I went to the window where I had been watching the episode 12 part where Sean sees White as White, and there was an interesting line. Sean said he had had a feeling because Black seemed so different, and White said, "Your feeling was pretty slow!" Kind of resentful that it took him as long as it did, even though at the time he wouldn't have wanted him to figure it out.

porridge If you read between the lines / fill in some blanks yourself you could say that while we saw White being generally relieved the others didn't work out that he's not Black, he wasn't always completely happy about it and about pretending. The more involved he becomes, and certainly the more he cares about Sean and is invested in something between them.

His feelings aren't made apparent after that initial relief.

towel Do you think White kind of gets a bit softer after Black comes back? Like, that he seems to become more of a contrast to Black? Maybe it just seems a bit like that to me because of the contrast. Black coming back also just leads to some emotional scenes, so we see more of Sean doing things like crying as well.

I'm going to mention something for later because I'm scared of forgetting: there were a few times when Black and White broke some "twin rules" I have for myself and I was like, "you can't do that!" but the biggest one was White getting Black's tattoos. They show his arm getting tattooed during the opening credits and every time I'd see it I would cringe so hard. You can't get the same tattoo as your twin unless you get intentional bro tats!

Of course then I found myself thinking about how much harder it would be for me to simulate your tattoos. Not just because there are more of them but because they're much more complex. And I think one might be in the same spot as one of mine?

porridge That to me is so kinda preposterous to begin with that I didn't get to the point where I was like "that's not allowed." A new tattoo doesn't look like an older tattoo so unless Black got his a month ago it's ridiculous.

But I agree, that's against the rules.

towel Oh gosh, I couldn't stop thinking about how his tattoo and the piercings weren't going to look right because they were still healing

In a way, the next day the tattoo might look more correct than it would a week later when you get that layer of skin falling off

porridge To return to your earlier point, it's confusing because if White seems a bit gentler and softer, is that the comparison? Is it an intentional choice among the filmmakers and Gun to contrast them? Did White maybe relax in his efforts to seem like Black once he felt accepted?

Also, maybe White is occasionally grumpy and seems more Black-ish and that has factored in at some points.

It would help if Black were a more nuanced character, though he is SOMETIMES nuanced.

towel I feel like those are all possible. Some of it is just the comparison and the events of the story at the time, but I also think that the writers/director were probably playing up the differences at least to some extent. And as you point out, Gun probably was too.

I feel like Black has the most depth when it comes to Eugene, but it's fleeting and not that nuanced.

porridge Having had an ear piercing since I first saw the show, I feel more like the piercings are plausible because he doesn't change posts. In the case of those, the main thing that would be visible would be some swelling for the first week or two and the gang likely wouldn't notice that.

I'm not sure whether Black has more depth with Eugene or if she's tied with White and Todd for interactions with actual feelings.

Black's Todd-related emotions include a lot of anger and rage, but in a way IMO where you can tell Black has actually let Todd into his world and has confided in him in a way he may not have done with the gang or others in his life. Maybe because they go back so far.

towel That's true. You can see why people ship Black and Todd, write fic about them, etc. I mean, I don't think there's actually something going on there in the show but he feels more strongly about Todd than almost anyone. He shows more emotion interacting with Todd than he does interacting with White.

porridge It feels like he's guarded with White partly out of protectiveness, though it's also clear that he's not eager to open up to White hugely. He cares about White but he really just wants White to do what he says, and hearing more about White's feelings and thoughts won't help with that.

towel Anytime one twin feels responsible for their twin's safety, it's bound to have some big downsides when it comes to their abilities to be emotionally authentic with each other. That's what I associate with it, anyway

porridge And they've been apart, but Black has maintained his childhood scheme for their relationship.

towel Because the person protecting is overloaded (they aren't supposed to have to take on this responsibility) so they're bound to be reactive to the protectee being distressed.

porridge As a protective twin and kinda parentified caregiver toward my twin (at some times in some ways), I didn't want to boss you around but when I felt you were in danger it was incredibly difficult not to feel like I could do anything about it.

towel I know that must be a feeling that comes up a lot--like, the horrible powerless feeling when someone you love is in an abusive relationship.* But I'm sure there are unique aspects of it and a lot of intensity when it's your twin..

I was looking for some other parts of the show to comment on and I found when White sees Black for the first time and I thought it was interesting that he says that unlike all the times he imagined this moment, it's "surprisingly frightening" (I think that was the wording. I find it remarkable that he says it's "like seeing my doppelganger." Because Black isn't the doppelganger. White is! "I stole my brother's entire life and he wanted it back. Such a doppelganger.")

*I (Towel) was in an abusive relationship for most of my 20s. Naturally, this was really hard for Porridge.

porridge You're right, but that experience (as I imagine it, having not gone more than like 9 months without seeing my own twin) would be uncanny to anybody in a way where you would lose all perspective about like recent events.

towel That's true. I guess I feel like the narrative kind of lets White off for his actions a little too much. I mean, his replacing-Black actions. There's very little time spent on the fact that Black doesn't like that he did that and it's not like he had his consent. His motivation to protect his brother matters but it doesn't negate everything completely. And of course Todd is nudging him along the whole way because it's in his interest for the anti-Tawi stuff to continue.

porridge I get what you're saying but I don't think that’s in service of making White out to be so perfect, I think it's more about keeping the narrative clean. There's a hypothetical version of the show that uses that to interesting ends.

towel I guess it just seems kind of lazy to me, or convenient

porridge And Black does tell White that the others won't want him around once they discover he's been lying to them. And White thinks (voiceovers) the same about Sean specifically.

towel I'm probably more interested in those implications because I'm actually a twin.

It's kind of wild how readily they're okay with it, the group, I mean. Maybe people are more likely to forgive that sort of thing if your twin is a huge butthole.

porridge If I wanted to explain that I would say that on some level they already knew.

towel I was wondering what you thought about the whole separating twins as children thing. I'll explain just a bit.

You pointed out that it doesn't really make sense for White's and Black's parents to think that separating them is going to change their psychic connection and I agree. There's no justification for that. But it reminded me of other ideas about how somehow twins being "too" close is going to be bad for them. I forget if I sent you a link to that recent article* but I remember I definitely shared a passage from it. This woman is kind of musing about her relationship with her twin and some of it is kind of self-indulgent but there are some good bits, and my favorite is where she talks about separation.

She talks about this case where an adoption agency separated a bunch of twins and adopted them out to families, never telling the families or the kids that they had twins. And there was a researcher kind of in cahoots with them who interviewed the families and the kids over the years to observe them, looking at the twinship angle but pretending it was for other purposes. It's all incredibly unethical.

But the justification was that being dependent on one another is unhealthy so twins are better off apart.

I wonder if that's part of what singletons find scary about twins. Maybe it would be better to say it’s a thing that scares them when they see it (or think they see it) in twins. And that's dependency, or more accurately, interdependence. Of course, that's kind of a culture-bound reaction. But in an individualistic culture like we have in the U.S., being sort of born into an interdependent relationship could seem horrifying.

*The article I'm referencing here is Giving Away My Twin by Jean Garnett, which came out on 7/10/23 in the New Yorker

porridge That's horrible. Would be even if they were non-twin siblings.

towel Yeah. Some of the saddest examples were from a book by Anna Freud's partner* talking about kids she observed when they ran a place for kids who were sent out of London during the Blitz.

*Anna Freud's partner's name was Dorothy Burlingham and her book was called Twins: A Study of Three Pairs of Identical Twins with 30 Charts

porridge The thing is, and I'm not saying there isn't any closeness kind of inherent to twinship. But yeah, any siblings can be closely dependent but when you add that to the appearance of twins people get wigged out.

Though I do know of kids being punished for being too close to their siblings, referred to negatively because of it, etc. Non-twin siblings.

towel I do think that being the same age increases the chances of being close or relying on one another.

porridge Yeah I don't discount that.

towel But yeah, it could happen at other ages and is totally penalized in some families.

porridge But I'm saying do the people outside that relationship perceive the additional closeness or do they just perceive closeness plus twin appearance

towel I do think that they overestimate it a lot based on twins looking similar.

But it gets kind of chicken-and-egg there, because part of what makes you closer is everyone treating you like you're a) weird, b) a unit with this other person, c) unbelievably similar to them, etc. Like, you know that closeness is expected, and you can get excluded by others because of their perceptions of your twinship.

Well, I was going to say that separating twins for no reason like that adoption agency is something I think most people would find disturbing. And separating twins the way White and Black were separated would probably seem like a bad idea to a lot of folks. But there are smaller examples of this that are really normalized. Like, I remember feeling really surprised, almost startled, when I found out that there's no empirical basis for [the idea that it’s] better for twins to be in different classes at school.

And I really think that became a convention because of that thing where twins being close--or just the prospect that they might be--freaks singletons out.

Maybe even more so when you're talking about adults who are considering a set of twin children. I know in our family of origin it was sometimes implied or even directly stated that our relationship somehow undermined the parents' authority.

And that's sad, because what you're talking about is children’s ability to provide each other comfort. Like, these are adults who basically resent that you have an ally who will make it harder to break your spirit.

porridge And you shouldn't be dependent on your children being ineffectual to parent.

towel Well, I think it's interesting how their separation is dealt with in the show. I'm tempted to go back and look at that part again, actually.

It's both treated as more and less of a big deal than I expected.

Like, it's not treated like it's nothing, which I think they could easily have done. But if they were going to acknowledge that it was painful, I wish they'd acknowledge it more.

At this point we got sidetracked and trailed off. Of course, this post is long enough as it is! That said, I do have some additional thoughts about Sean figuring out the twin thing, as I noted above. I'll be posting about that soon. And I wouldn't be surprised if Porridge and I end up having other thoughts about all of this down the road.

[sunshineoftheheart]

A dissertation on Forcebook (Advantages of Tumblr... I can write a lot 🤣)

I'm a recent forcebook fan. Stumbled upon some tiktoks of them and got curious. Their banter reminded me of taynew in a way but with an even easier connection (understandable given how long they've known eo as later I found out).

Saw a boss and a babe. I had read about the show but hated the name, so give it a pass. Dumb decision. It's a good show, that makes sure to include some important messages (marriage equality, some BL viewers hipocrisy, gay acceptance) which personally I love. They acted well and have good chemistry.

I read bad reviews on Enchante but also watched it. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. Theo doesn't come off of it looking nice but at the same time he never expected the whole charade to become such a huge mess. So I get his character was unlikable for some and made the story unloved. However, I repeat the hate is not deserved.

Also watched their real show. It's sooo good. They bounce off each other really well and are super funny. They know how to host and entertain the viewers.

Overall, their work is good and improving. I'm looking forward to only friends. If I have any complaint it would be the kisses on Enchante were better than ABAAB. Still all good and I'd never manage to kiss a best friend like that any way.

Now... I see a lot of hate or disregard towards them that I feel is undeserved. First of all, they don't look a like. How can people mistake them is beyond me. Book has a lighter skin and bigger eyes, Forces eyes are smaller and his skin tanner. This even during Enchante. Now, Force clearly has a bigger build and Book is leaner.

I feel a lot of BL fans prefer the stereotype of one taller than the other or bigger (enter the top /bottom discourse). True that they are almost the same height and Force only recently got buffer. There's a lot of prejudice and stereotype even (or especially) among BL watchers...

Read some say "oh they were bad actors" but they adore other actors that besides visuals can't act to save their lives. In any case they've been growing as actors.

They're also apparently genuinely nice guys and I love how politically active Book gets and Force supports. Also both speaking up for marriage equality and pride month. A lot of BL actors (even big ones) do zero for the community, just using BL as a stepping stone to move to regular dramas but everyone turns a blind eye to that.

So I'm hoping their Fandom grows but remains non toxic and respectful. The odds aren't in their favor for all the reasons above but it's going well I think.

[gunsatthaphan]

Hi 🙂

Are there any thai movies out there that you have seen that you think are worth watching? can be of any genre I have watched quite a fair share of Thai drama's but want to branch out into the film side of things and I have no idea where to start I wondered if there was any you would recommend

hi there! 🙂

I'm not really a movie-watcher lol, I've only seen a handful of thai movies, aside from some movie versions of series I watched. but here's what I can contribute lol:

One that I liked a lot is Classic Again (non-BL, romance-drama), which is like a very emotional story and I normally don't like overly cheesy stuff but for some reason this really got me lol. I would put it into the Nicholas Sparks-melodrama category so if you're into that lol.

Love Love You (BL, comedy) is another one I thought was quite fun, although it didn't get the best reviews lol. I had a good time though, nothing too deep or serious.

Present Perfect and Present Still Perfect (BL, romance-drama) are also 2 that I recommend, they're very minimalistic and limited to just the main characters and their struggles which is nicely done. Acting & chemistry is strong and the sequel is even better than the first one.

The Blue Hour (BL, supernatural, drama) is a classic, maybe you've already seen this one. It's complex and abstract but I enjoyed it, despite not understanding everything. Oab and Gun are outstanding imo and it's a fascinating watching experience - but it's not for everyone.

all movies can be streamed here and here. have fun 😊

xxx

[invisiblegarters]

GMMTV 2025 Line Up Trailer Rating / Reaction Part II

Continued from Part I

Mu-Te-Love - SKY Hiiiii Sky. Hiiii Jan. Hiiii Luke. Lol okay I popped into the live show with this trailer and I'm not going to pretend that I am going to watch this unless it winds up airing on a day that I have nothing else going on, but I do love the cast. PREEEEM. Ohm and Leng again? Jeebus. Only if there's nothing else on. But honestly that was The Jungle for me too and I wound up kind of loving it even though it was dumb? So who knows.

Cat for Cash - this will the last time I complain about this but like...two times is coincidence, three times is a pattern, right? I guess First is just the designated emotional support forever now while Khaotung actually gets to have a plot beyond his love interest? Cool cool. I really genuinely don't see why they can't both have emotionally resonant stories - they did in The Eclipse - but what the fuck do I know right? I'm just one dissatisfied watcher in a sea of people who don't give a fuck so long as they can see Khaotung cry. Awesome. And you know I'm not even one of those that wants them to split up but this is just getting fucking old. I know I'm like the one person who thinks so but come ON they can BOTH do the job stop giving it to just one. Aside from that it looks like ridiculous fun. I love cats and I would happily watch these guys hang out with kitties all day so at least there's that for me. And it also looks like they're letting First move out of the more reserved character slot so I should just count my blessings and shut up. Which I will do after this. I am looking forward to seeing them act with Satang (mostly Khao, of course, because as I said he's the one that gets the actual story here) and it's nice that they're getting their own show, no ensemble. Will calm down and then probably watch.

Girl Rules - Hands down my favorite trailer of the line up my god I am so seated. I don't know how I knew that this was coming (a Jojo directed GL) but I did. I did and I couldn't be more pleased. Absolutely did not expect MilkLove to do something like this but am NOT complaining in the least. And Namtan and Film! Yay! I don't know Mim but I love View so I'm just. Ready. Please give me messy, toxic lesbians. Please let the people who can't handle the mess realize it's not for them this time and keep away (and this includes the ones who will inevitably throw a fit if and when the pairs advertised in the trailer wind up together). Please please please. Watching with bells on baby try and stop me.

Boys in Love - Despite it having the long awaited PoddPapang pairing (oooh, alliteration) absolutely not. I'm sorry but I'm never going back to high school again if I can help it.

My Magic Prophecy - I'll be honest, I'm completely uninterested in this one. That's a no.

A Dog and s Plane - TayNew was not on my non existent bingo card either, but I'm not sad to see it here. Looks like fun and you know I love New playing a brat so. Will be a nice lighthearted one for me. Will probably watch at some point but it's not one of the ones I'm really looking forward to, so we'll call this one on the fence.

Me and Thee - LOOOOL why is this already so funny. A loser mafia boss who is way too addicted to lakorns Pond hiring an exasperated Phuwin to help him woo? Switching targets halfway through because well of course he does? Reluctant bonding (on Phuwin's part mostly) because loser mafia boss is lonely and sad and very very pretty? Angst and shenanigans as mafia!Pond fights between his job and his heart? I dig it. Watching.

WU - I'm sorry, have you seen my blog? Is this even a question? Yes I am in, I don't care if it's BL or bromance I will watch (and it would crack me up if somehow Nani and Sky become GMMTV's first ever branded bromance pair. My cackling would be heard in GMMTV headquarters it would be so loud. Watching.

Memoir of Rati - Okay. I don't know. I just don't know. I...me and lakorns don't always get along, I have to be in the right mood. It really just depends if I am when this one rolls around. On the fence.

Ticket to Heaven - The thing that makes this one iffy for me is that religious themes. To me Fourth and Gemini are tiny babies and I have never seen MSP or MLMU and that is how it will stay, but I did love them in MLC I have to admit. And it's P'Aof. And the themes of religion and guilt are like...pretty much right up my street. So I guess we'll call this one as will probably watch.

[anpanman95]

AND FINALLY, my best friend, a non BL watcher gay man, on Love Mechanics EP 1:

“damn is Mark’s ass made of magic cause he really made him go from ‘stop bothering my friend’ to ‘I think you were too harsh on him’ so fast it’s pathetic”

“same Mark I too wanted to kms when I got rejected by the boy I liked when I was fifteen”

“Am I watching my own life story? Why is this giving me flashbacks”

“Mark is so me-coded”

“I am Mark. Mark is me. We are the same person”

“one episode in and he already flipped him over like a goddamn pancake please teach me your ways Mark”

[He’s promised to watch J&J after we finish Love Mechanics. His life is about to change and all of you will be the unwilling witnesses]

[absolutebl]

Hi ABL! I was wondering if you have recs for bl couples where a younger seme/top aggressively pursues an older, initially-unwilling uke/bottom?

I realized this trope was my absolute JAM when I fell hard and fast for Wei Zhiyuan x Wei Qian, Sun Boxiang x Lu Zhigang, and Yongjie x Xingsi. Bonus points for age gap, stepbrothers trope or the older uke being endlessly indulgent?

I mainly watch China and Taiwan bls, so I’ll love anything from there. I’ll take recs from other countries too, they might become my first foray into non-mandarin bls

I know this is a somewhat specific request so thank you sm if you manage to come up with anything! I really appreciate all the work you put into this blog ☺️💜

Oooo MY FAVORITE!!!

Hyung Romances! (wrap-up post)

I call these hyung romances because that's like noona romances but gay.

Specifically you said:

younger seme aggressively pursues an older initially-unwilling uke

I am utter TRASH for this! YES PLEASE!

Minato’s Laundromat

Japan 2022 GaGa 

AKA Minato Coin Laundry AKA Wash My Heart! AKA Minato Shouji Koin Randorii AKA Minato Shouji Coin Laundry

Younger seme older uke, very clearly yaoi derived dynamic, 10 year age gap. I love this show so much. This is by far the best long running example that really dwells on this trope, Shin is very much the aggressor also very much still a high school kid. Minato is very much NOT. 

Old Fashion Cupcake 

Japan 2022 Viki & GaGa 

Also from Japan, another 10 year gap, and a flipping genius version. This time both parties are older, so there’s less of a stigma around the age gap, but there is stigma about the one being the other’s boss. 

This show had me from the moment they broke the egg yolk with the chopsticks in the opening credits for episode one. It’s about a younger man with a long cherished crush on his boss (ten years older and going through a mid life crisis) who decides to save and seduce said man with pancakes. It’s wholesome, comforting, sexy, and a very necessary narrative about still having hope, interests, and openness to affection at any age. It’s coming of age/queerness packaged in a subtle critique of expectations around masculinity and love and loneliness... and it’s beautiful. Full review. 

Lovely Writer

Thailand 2021 YouTube 

Sib is quite a bit younger than Gene and defines aggressive pursuer. Gene is out of university and established in his career, Sib is still in college.

Thailand criticizes itself and the BL industry while simultaneously giving us classic seme/uke with great chemistry in a one-two punch of “we love it, but are we supposed to? and must we think this hard, yet enjoy it SO MUCH?” This show won’t appeal or make sense to those who don’t already have at least some Thai BL watching experience. What Lovely Writer does, at heart, is reexamine Thai BL has done to queerness, but in a very gentle way that has more to do with Thai BL growing up than any actual queer authenticity. It’s not parody or pastiche, but it is self reflective and trying to correct for some chronic mistakes. Whether it is ultimately successful in this matter is going to depend on the watcher’s relationship to BL and queer identity. But that’s what makes this show beautiful, interesting, and thought provoking. And I, for one, applaud the effort even if I didn’t personally connect to the characters.

Oxygen

Thailand 2020 YouTube 

Thailand’s first real stab at this dynamic as a main couple and it so worked for me. There are many who find this BL too slow and wooden, but I loved it. 

I think of this as a paragon of Thailand’s softer BL style, since Oxygen uses every BL trope in the playbook for one of the gentlest lowest angst BLs ever made. This one showcases how far Thailand is moving BL from its yaoi roots, and is a prime example of the sweet “new BL” model for which Thailand is the main advocate (Korea is liking it a lot these days too, tho). My first watch along. 

SOTUS

Thailand 2016 YouTube 

Guess who started this trope in Thailand? Yeah, sometimes I forget too. But they are not just classic sunshine/tsunder but classic younger/older. Just not by much.

This is the BL that launched a hundred BLs. No literally, it was SOTUS’s international success that pretty much built the Thai BL industry into the juggernaut it is today. People have baggage around SOTUS, I have nostalgia. Trigger warning on bully hazing. Review here. 

En of Love: Tossera 

Thailand 2020 YouTube 

Younger boy wants to court older boy and does and… that’s it. No really that’s the WHOLE STORY. There is actually no angst, drama, or, indeed plot. But are they the softest bois ever to BL as a main couple? Yes they are.

*pulp warning*

Private Lessons

Korea 2020 GaGa 

A BL short from Strongberry that I love, it's age gap and teacher/student (catnip por moi). The chemistry is slightly off though, but stil I do love this one for the dynamic. Certainly worth watching especially if this is your trope since it's like 8 minutes long and very stylish.

MingKit MarkKit

2 Moons (VERY side dish) YouTube 2 Moons 2 YouTube (major side dish) Gen Y (leads) Gen Y 2 (sides again in LTR) 

Thailand’s premier version of this dynamic I just lumped them all into one category. Only in 2 Moons 2 are they played by different actors, otherwise it is all KimCop, and who can complain about that? If you want to watch specifically for this dynamic than go for Gen Y. Trash watch here. 

SIDE DISH CORNER

Not Me (DanYok)

DanYok is an age gap, but it isn’t really the point or the plot of their romantic arc

Don’t Say No (LeonPob) 

Leon and Pob qualify. That’s all I have to say about that. 

HIStory 3: the BL that shall not be named (BoXiang & ZhiGang)

Also appear in HIStory 4: Close to You

The side characters in H3:MODC (and cameos in H4) BoXiang & ZhiGang have a huge age gap, 12 years, and it is a big deal for their relationship. When they start out BoXiang is a desperate himbo high school kid and ZhiGang is a small business owner. BoXiang’s friends tease him more for his lust over such a much older man than for being gay. 

Bonus on this one, there is some very high (and it's Taiwan so) very well done heat. That said, the main couple will, in fact, wreck your psyche for life. Proceed with caution.

THE THAI PULPS

You’re My Sky (SanAei)

Side could (and only good part of this show) SanAei are a classic uni age gap pairing. San is a bit of a spoiled rich kid jock who identifies the older nerd character as HIS and is just like, MINE. That’s MY elder gay. 

Brothers (KhunKaow) 

This is not a good show, but side couple Khun & Kaow are great in it. Khun is in university and Kaow has a small baking business.

Top Secret Together and Love By Chance both have sub plots of high school boys pursuing college ones, but the one didn’t go anywhere and the other went very very bad, so yeah… no. Although I would personally LOVE to see this done well. 

BONUS POINTS ROUND

Stepbrothers trope

HIStory 4: Close to You (sides)

YongJie is quite a bit younger than XingSi, not sure on the specifics but he’s in middle school when XingSi is in high school and still in college when XingSi has his own business.

Addicted has the stepbrothers trope but not the age gap.

Older uke being endlessly indulgent

Future

Thailand 2023 YouTube 

Based on a y-novel by Faddest (En of Love) about an engineering student and a dentist (shocker). This is just a soft sweet cotton candy fluff piece about a younger boy who pursues an older boy and then manufactures silly gay drama. Nothing wrong with that. But I don’t think this style of BL really appeals to a very large market share. Will I rewatch it? Sure. Will anyone else? Nope.

If you want your endlessly indulgent older gay, this is the you crack, they made if for you.

*pulp warning*

Manner of Death

Thailand 2021 WeTV

It’s not really relevant to the story, but Tan is younger. Not only that, he’s Bun’s friends younger brother. Bun is very indulgent, but in a grown up way.

I like MoD a lot but I’m conflicted over it being actual BL. It’s a great gay romantic suspense, although the mystery element is its weakness. MaxTul, the Kings of chemistry, are, of course, perfect and perfectly cast, but their romance thread is more a distraction than an addition. Still, I could watch them make-out the phonebook. Watch along here. 

Seven Days

Japan 2015 grey 

AKA Seven Days: Monday-Thursday AND Seven Days: Friday-Sunday Japan

Seryou kinda counts as the pursuer, but the dynamic is very very weak in this one. Still the way he asks to use Yuzuru’s first name (so CHEEKY) and the way he says “senpai” in SUCH a cute way makes me so happy. And Yuzuru is NOTHING is not indulgent, it kinda defines his character. I mean he just LETS him call him by his FIRST name... right away.

Never doubt my ability to recommend this show. One of the best live action yaois ever made, with perfectly structured angst, fantastic characters and acting, and no problematic tropes (rare in Japanese BL). The leads have excellent chemistry although it’s low heat there’s still some really cute mutual kisses. 

Just Taiwan

HIStory 2: Crossing the Line

2018 Viki 

Seme uke is VERY weak with this one but the younger character is certainly the pursuer. It’s SO GOOD. 

Lin Pei Yu directs this is a sports romance (volleyball) with a good boy/bad boy pairing, and mu favorite of the HIStory franchise. There is no clear seme/uke. Ostensibly it's high school set but Taiwan doesn't care about age appropriate actors. It's a very soft sweet romance with some ridiculously easily overcome conflict. There's great kisses but it's medium heat. The side dishes are the stepbrother trope but they’re very tame, and there’s no other triggers. It's not just my favorite of the franchise, it’s one of my favorite BLs with a perfect happy ending.

Kiseki: Dear to Me

2023 Gaga

The mains are a major age gap, but I always forget because they def don't look it. Also, Taiwan, so very weak seme/uke. Still there is age gap, he's in high school and our gangster is out of college and in the workplace.

The plot is totally ridiculous and slightly unhinged, but that’s normal for Taiwan. It involves all the tropes under a very casual framework of gay mafia gangs + food = love. Absolutely every character is queer. There’s a gum-ball machine of cameos, elder gay rep, great chemistry from all pairs, and a KILLER side couple. As a result Kiseki is a poster child for Taiwanese BL, and I happen to love Taiwanese BL. Bonus? They also managed to END IT WELL, which we cannot expect from Taiwan.

(Triggers for knife play, child abuse, lingering trauma.)

Unknown

2024 YouTube

Unknown is a wonderful BL with a pitch perfect portrayal of long term pining, age gap, and the stepbrothers trope. The acting and chemistry are ON POINT (especially from the leads) which made the resulting characters very believable. When it dwells in intimate family drama, it's stunning. It's slightly less successful when it leaves the home and goes gritty. Still, those are mere quibbles. This is an excellent show, one of Taiwan' s best.

As you see above I mostly had to take you to Japan and Thailand for this one. Considering your preferences try Japan first, it's closer in DNA to Taiwanese stuff, but it won't go as high heat. If you want the heat, you'll need to try the Thai stuff (or the ones from Taiwan you haven't seen). I would start with Lovely Writer.

Okay I think I have given you enough and, unless I miss my guess, I may have tempted you to try some Japanese BL.

Comes to the weirder (and weird hair) side. We have pancakes.

Yeah I think you should watch Old Fashion Cupcake.

EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH OLD FASHION CUPCAKE!!!

(source)

This post dated May 2024, not responsible for hyungs that sling after that date.

[kakusu-shipping]

Crush List

I use to have a crush list on my first pinned post but I ended up deleting it to save space and sense then have been pretty indecisive about bringing it back just because I didn't feel it was useful information and the concept was too broad and more and more excuses of the like.

Then my OCD got stuck in list mode so here we are anyway.

Long post under the cut, thankyou for your attention

Canon Crushes

Crushes that are canon to my Self-Insert's story (either I have a crush on them or they have a crush on me), some of which are also on the F/O list, but they're still in the crush phase to me <3

Katsuki Bakugo - My Hero Academia

Reedus Jonah - Fairy Tail

Usopp - One Piece

Makoto Katai - Komi Can't Communicate

Souichi Nishimura (Ironman) - Baka and Test

Junta Hayami - Romantic Killer

Kotaro Sato - Kotaro lives Alone

Franky Franklin - Spy X Family

Shiro Ashiya (Aciel) - The Devil is a Part-Timer

Shizuka Domeki - XXXHolic

Chieko - Princess Jellyfish

Masato Hanzawa - Sasaki and Miyano/Hirano and Kagiura

Baron Humbert von Gikkington - The Cat Returns

Arrietty Clock - The Secret World of Arrietty

Anger - Inside Out

Pearl - Steven Universe

Princess Celestia - My Little Pony; Friendship is Magic

The Beast - Over the Garden Wall

Meowth - Pokemon Anime

Sirfetch'd - Pokemon Anime

Guzma - Pokemon Masters

Tyme - Pokemon Scarlet/Violet

Doctor Mario - Super Mario

Metal Mario - Super Mario

Wardell - Animal Crossing

Spyke - Splatoon

CQ Cumber - Splatoon

Balan - Balan Wonderworld

Rayfa Padma Khura'in - Ace Attorney

Chara - Undertale

Flowey - Undertale

Gaster - Deltarune

Phineas Filch - Ace Attorney

Maugaloa Malosi - Overwatch

Luca Blight - Suikoden 2

Madeline - The Watchers (Novel)

Just can't be bother to make an S/I

For various reasons including; Already have too many S/Is for this media, There's a ship I like that already has the dynamic my S/I would have with them (including friend's self-ships), Haven't had a good S/I concept yet, etc.

Pantherlily - Fairy Tail

Taurus - Fairy Tail

Mayaya - Princess Jellyfish

Hilling - Ranking of Kings

Marco Pagot - Porco Rosso

Palo Barrrows - The Titan's Bride

Noppo - Drifting Home

Randall - Monsters University

Jasper - Steven Universe

Rose Quarts/Pink Diamond - Steven Universe

Padparadscha - Steven Universe

The Titan - The Owl House

Grime - Amphibia

Maddie Flour - Amphibia

King Andrias - Amphibia

Hugo Oak - Kipo and the age of the Wonderbeasts

Jamack - Kipo and the age of the Wonderbeasts

Black Hat -Villainous

Bobert - The Amazing World of Gumball

The Nomad - Nomad of Nowhere

Brock - Pokemon Anime

Cilan - Pokemon Anime

Ren - Pokemon Anime

Ingo and Emmet - Pokemon BW

Nanu - Pokemon SuMo

Mega Swampert - Pokemon

Regirock - Pokemon

Regice - Pokemon

Mega Lopunny - Pokemon

Dusknoir - Pokemon

Giritina - Pokemon

Blacephalon - Pokemon

Zamazenta - Pokemon

Magnazone - Monster Mind

Bowser - Super Mario

Dimentio - Super Paper Mario

Grilby - Undertale

Damon Gant - Ace Attorney

Bobby Fulbright - Ace Attorney

Kisegawa - Ace Attorney

Junko Enoshima - Danganronpa

Chihiro Fujisaki - Danganronpa

The Ultimate Imposter - Danganronpa

Gundham Tanaka - Danganronpa

Winston - Overwatch

Mako Rutledge (Roadhog) - Overwatch

Akande Ogundimu (Doomfist) - Overwatch

Jean-Baptiste Augustin - Overwatch

Richmond - Suikoden 2

Don't know enough

Either a non-major character I got a little too attached to or Their source material is too small to inspire me or I literally haven't directly interacted with the media they are from

Lapointe - Fairy Tail

Usopp - One Piece

Bepo - One Piece

Donquixote Doflamingo - One Piece

Shiro Ashiya (Aciel) - The Devil is a Part-Timer

Kitsune - XXXHolic

Dream Seller - XXXHolic

Hiigari - I Realized I Am the Younger Brother of the Protagonist in a BL Game

Otori-San - I Like Otori-san!

Tomoki Inohara - Melt at Night

Satou Jun - Mimasaka-kun to Mayoeru Kobuta

Sayo Minoru - I need to suck blood tonight/Yabun ni Kyuuketsu Shitsurei Shimasu

Yuzuru Tachibana - Drifting Home

Metauro - Villainous

Kinger - The Amazing Digital Circus

Data - Star Trek

Harvey Hornswoggle - Drawtectives

Animatronic - Drawtectives

Callagan - Pokemon the Power of Us

Tubba Blubba - Paper Mario

Ganon - Legend of Zelda

Agent 7 (Eight) - Splatoon OC

Nelly (Agent 8) - Friend Devin's Splatoon OC

Meta Knight- Kirby

Galacta Knight - Kirby

Morpho Knight - Kirby

Magalor - Kirby

Rouge - Sonic

Roche - Dokapon Kingdom

Gaster - Undertale

Light Field (Snake) - The Nonary Games

Shamura - Cult of the Lamb

Ralph - Detroit; Become Human

Jerry - Detroit; Become Human

Bloodhound - Apex