#being part of the lgbt+ community has been the only good part. but fuck.. i also fucked that up by being a fucking cis people’s bootlicker

[ineffable-romantics]

Some thoughts on why and how I believe Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship would incorporate sex/why I do not read them as wholly asexual:

This is something I've seen the most discourse about in this fandom, and I've had a few thoughts of my own that I really wanted to expand upon in a full meta/character analysis post. I do understand that this can be a contentious topic, so first, let me clarify a few things:

First of all, this is going to be long. Tbh it probably won't be that organized either. I ramble and I'm not very good at editing, so just... you know. Be warned. (*Hi, it's me from 2 days after writing this; I'm really not kidding, it's LONG)

These are all my own thoughts. They might not be hot takes, because recently I've seen more than a few people come to the same conclusions on a lot of these points as I have. But I've also had these notes in my drafts for about a week and a half now, and have been continuously adding to it as things have occurred to me. This post is essentially just somewhere for me to collect the separate but related meta I've been kicking around in my head.

I fully respect anyone who does see and prefer an asexual reading of this relationship. These are my own thoughts and interpretations as someone who is not asexual. I am in the LGBT+ community, so while I do know a few things about the asexuality spectrum, I am by no means an expert.

This is NOT something I expect, need, or even necessarily want the show (or, God forbid, Neil's tumblr ask box) to address. Tonally, it's just not that kind of show. Newt and Anathema's sex scene was very much played for laughs, and it worked for that reason. If the show found a way to address it in a way that was both appropriate for the tone of the show and ultimately satisfying, then great! But there is so much more to this relationship than sex, and I didn't need a kiss to confirm their love, so I certainly don't need a sex scene. As immortal beings (as I assume they'll stay) there is so much of the rest of their lives we'll never get to see. You can headcanon them as asexual and potentially be right. I can headcanon them as not and be equally potentially right. Again, these are just a collection of my own thoughts, because I think the question of sexuality (or lack thereof) is just as interesting a facet of these characters as any other.

Note: Tbh I've been second-guessing this whole post and debated deleting the whole thing several times for being silly or unnecessary, bc I don't want anyone to think that this is the only thing I care about when it comes to this story/characters. But if nothing else, it's inspired me to write in a way that nothing has in a very long time, so I've decided it's worth continuing, if for no other reason than that.

This is going to be a mixed bag of textual reading, subtextual reading, and a full-on reach or two. It's been a while since I've been in an English class, but if my teachers expected me to find a deeper meaning behind blue curtains, you can expect me to read too deeply into the symbolism of a loaded rifle or an ox rib. (This is probably not what my professors had in mind when grading my literary analysis papers but oh well) My point is, if it feels like a reach, I'm as aware of it as you are. I am in no way saying that all (or even any) of my points made were deliberate on the part of Neil or the actors or the writers or the directors. I am no longer the delulu Apple Tree Yard child of my youth, I promise.

If anything said here is in any way offensive or hurtful to anyone in the asexual community, please do not hesitate to message me or comment and let me know exactly what it was. I promise you it is not my intention to do so, and am happy to clarify or outright edit anything that reads that way.

With all that being said, let's talk about why I think Crowley and Aziraphale would absolutely fuck nasty incorporate sex into their relationship.

Note: I am out of practice with essay writing, so I think I'll just go down the bullet points of notes I have been making, and expand on each as best I can

Food

Where better to start than with Aziraphale's introduction to Pleasures Of The Flesh? (Just a heads up, this entire post may feel very Aziraphale-heavy, and with good reason).

This might be the least hot take here. We've all seen the Job minisode. We've all seen That Scene.

Whether this was intentional or not, the symbolism here is off the charts. Eve was tempted by an apple. So why not go a similar route and tempt Aziraphale with another fruit, or cheese, or bread, or literally anything else for his first experience with food? Instead, we go with a huge, glistening slab of fresh meat that he proceeds to absolutely go feral upon, moaning and gasping into his meal while Crowley watches with what definitely doesn't look to be disgust or even satisfaction with a good temptation. There's surprise at the ferocity of Aziraphale's appetite, certainly. But ultimately he looks to be intensely fascinated by it, while the thunder crashes, the music crescendos, and the earth literally shakes around them.

(It's also interesting to note how very little it takes for Crowley to tempt him with the ox rib. One murmured suggestion, a bit of unwavering eye contact, and vavoom Aziraphale immediately meets him in the middle.)

Cut to Aziraphale devouring the rest of the meat with Crowley splayed back on a makeshift bed, drinking wine and continuing to watch him indulge through half-lidded eyes. Outside a thunderstorm rages while they're learning secrets about each other in warm flickering firelight. It's cosy, it's intimate, and if they'd thrown in a bearskin throw blanket, it might as well be a post-coital scene straight out of Game of Thrones.

The next time (chronologically) we see them discuss food is when Aziraphale "tempts" Crowley with oysters in Rome. So Crowley first tempts Aziraphale with meat and then Aziraphale tempts Crowley with what is widely regarded to be an aphrodisiac. Interesting.

And then chronologically after that, the Arrangement begins to form, which has always reeked of a friends with benefits situation. Just to throw that in there.

It's What Humans Do

In the very first episode, we're shown Gabriel's obvious disgust and bewilderment towards Aziraphale eating sushi, calling it "gross matter" and being proud of the fact that he does not sully his body with it. Aziraphale initially tries to defend his own enjoyment in it, before passing it off as something that humans do, as something he simply has to do in order to blend in (which we know very well is not the case).

He does this again in season 2, passing off Nina and Maggie being in love as "something humans do". But it isn't, is it? Angels are beings of love, and can sense it, and understand very well what it is... up to a point. Even romantic love is obviously within their wheelhouse, given what we now know happened between Gabriel and Beelzebub (we'll come back to them).

What the "humans do" that angels wouldn't understand is messy, physical forms of love.

But here's the thing: Aziraphale and Crowley love doing what the humans do. They love drinking, they (or at least Aziraphale) love eating. They love music. Crowley loves driving and sleeping and watching rom-coms and sitcoms. Aziraphale loves reading and doing magic and earning little licenses and certificates for achievement in his various hobbies. They love to playact at being human so much that they've stopped playacting and started building a genuinely human lifestyle for themselves and with each other.

Once together in an unambiguously romantic sense, why do we think they wouldn't also want to explore one of the most prominent, intimate, powerful human expressions of love and desire with each other?

Angels, Demons, & Asexuality

Here's where I really want to clarify that in no way do I mean that sex is necessary for a healthy, fulfilling, and loving romantic relationship, or that the lack of desire for sex makes you any less human. Asexuality is a sexuality as valid and human as any. What I would say is that it is definitely in the human minority compared to allosexuality.

Angels and demons, on the other hand, are predominately asexual. Sexless/genderless unless Making An Effort. (Which, btw, is a concept introduced as early as the original book; why even bring it up as a possibility? Why not keep angels/demons being sexless/asexual as a hard and fast rule, if not to open up the potential for later use? Chekhov's Effort, if you will. And isn't that something that Aziraphale in particular is shown to do time and time again? He makes an effort in French and driving and magic, doesn't he?)

And this is why I don't believe Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily need to be asexual, narratively. There is already a huge amount of ace rep within the angels and demons (and no, not just the horrible ones. Muriel also doesn't "drink the tea" and has no reason or desire thus far to Make An Effort, and there are certainly other angels and demons who aren't horrible like the archangels seem to be who likely wouldn't Make An Effort either).

The central conflict for Aziraphale and Crowley is that they are on their own side, the ones who went native, the ones who are so different in so many ways from their respective hives. It would make sense for them to also break away from traditional angel/demon asexuality.

I say "traditional angel/demon asexuality", because I would also like to note that I would absolutely not rule out demisexuality for either of them. This post is being written to as a response to people who specifically believe that they (like the rest of the angels/demons seem to be) would be sex-averse in a relationship, and that it wouldn't be a factor in their relationship. I could easily read them as demisexual, but I do think there would be no real way of verifying this, because they've never been able to form as close an emotional relationship with anyone else but each other. Certainly not in heaven, and I can't imagine they would be able to form that kind of attachment with any of the humans, who they love and emulate but ultimately regard as the separate species they are. So yes, they could either be allosexual or demisexual, in my opinion.

Then again, now that I think about it, Making An Effort itself could be a great metaphor for demisexuality, since they would be entirely sexless/asexual until they have enough of an emotional connection with someone to consciously manifest otherwise. Since the other angels and demons don't generally form those types of emotional connections with anyone, there hasn't been a precedent for it.

Except...

Brielzebub

We do have a precedent for it now, don't we? Gabriel and Beelzebub fell in love. They are a direct foil for Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, speedrunning right through their courtship and finding their happily ever after on the other side of things.

For being such a 1 to 1 comparison, it feels deliberate that they did not kiss. They held hands, they were gooey with each other, but they did not kiss. That feels like such a deliberate thing to omit when you know what's to come at the end of the episode between Crowley and Aziraphale.

And going back to the food = sex metaphor for a moment, let's notice how even as they fell in love over the years, even when pints and crisps were there on the table in front of them, they never felt the desire to reach out for them. They didn't need to. It's a date (love story) even if you aren't eating dinner (sleeping together).

Yes, I know Jim liked hot chocolate. No, I am not counting it because I don't consider Jim and Gabriel to be the same person with the same proclivities, and Jim was highly suggestible at the time anyway.

Gabriel and Brielzebub's big happily ever after moment (as of now) was one between two asexual supernatural beings. They did not need to kiss to drive the point home. They showed what Crowley and Aziraphale could have, if they would only acknowledge it.

Crowley & Aziraphale's Dissatisfaction

But they do have that already, don't they? If you really think about it, what do Gabriel and Beelzebub do with each other that Crowley and Aziraphale don't already? They hold hands, they spend time together, they create little rituals, they give gifts, they're visibly and verbally affectionate with each other, etc. They are more or less already in a romantic asexual marriage relationship with each other, aren't they?

And it doesn't seem to be enough for either of them.

At the beginning of the season, Crowley is immediately shown to be unsatisfied with the way things are. Obviously part of it comes from living in his car, but it seems to be more than that (especially since Aziraphale makes it clear that the bookshop is just as much Crowley's as his, implying that he could have been living there the whole time and is choosing not to, for some reason?). You could argue he's feeling unmoored without Hell telling him what to do, but isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what he still wants, by the end of the season? All season long, he's never indicated the desire for a new job, or a new project. He stopped the apocalypse because he wanted the freedom to openly spend time with Aziraphale, to spend his time on Earth however he sees fit. Until Gabriel arrives, he has exactly that (minus a flat).

So where does the dissatisfaction come from? And if it represents anything to do with his relationship, what does he want out of it that he isn't getting already?

I think Crowley only really comes to the realisation of what he's missing when Nina names it for him, not only putting them in the category of romantic, but physical (outright asking if they are sleeping together). These two posts [1], [2] go into more detail about what I mean, but I think it really pushes him into acknowledging that their relationship is more human than either of them have stopped to consider, and what that might mean as far as everything a human relationship can entail.

After all, Nina and Maggie only advised that he should talk to Aziraphale, make clear his feelings. The decision to kiss him, to tip them over the edge from nonphysical to physical, that was all him. And no, kissing isn't sex, but I wonder how taboo even that might be in the kind of all-encompassing asexuality most angels seem to identify with. (If they're disgusted by food and drink, I can only imagine what they think of snogging, much less sex.)

Aziraphale doesn't have this moment of someone observing their relationship from the outside. He loves Crowley, and as of 1941 probably even knows he's in love with him in a way that Crowley doesn't understand yet. Which makes sense, since love is technically his job, he'd be more likely to recognise it for what it is.

However, Aziraphale's reference for romance and relationships is Jane Austen. It's chaste. It's dancing and dinner and doing sweet things for each other and roses and candles and handholding. He contextualises his love for Crowley in that soft fantasy sort of way, where it's there, it's obviously there, but it's neat and easy and unspoken. Not to quote Glee in this, the year of our lord 2023, but it's all very "the touch of the fingertips is as sexy as it gets".

Someone should tell that to Aziraphale's face, then.

I'm not going to pretend I know what Michael Sheen's script notes were, but there were definitely some Choices™ made. Because yes, there were plenty of moments in both seasons with Aziraphale looking at Crowley in a sweet, loving, smitten way. And then there were moments that were yearning.

But yearning for what, exactly? All of those sappy Jane Austen tropes already apply to the two of them. So why are there moments where Aziraphale is looking Crowley up and down like the last eclair in the window and licking his lips and visibly exhaling like he's trying to get in control of himself (see: Bastille scene + Crowley telling Muriel to ask him if they have any other questions about love)? Why is Aziraphale not only unconcerned when Crowley shoves him bodily up against a wall in s1, but staring at his lips and a beat too late in noticing Sister Mary's arrival? Why are some of his lines so suggestive? I'm sorry, but the car ride after the church explosion might as well have been the beginning of a Pizza Man porn with a really weird Blitz theme. If even my mother picked up on that vibe, I can't imagine it wasn't intentional on part of both the dialogue and the delivery.

(This section may feel like more of a reach/joke, but I'm really only 20% joking. These are writers and actors who are EXTREMELY good at their jobs; they know what they were doing here.)

More importantly, I don't think Aziraphale is even aware that there is more to what he wants. He lives in the Jane Austen fantasy and it never even occurs to him that he might be interested in anything further. It never even occurs to him that, as an angel, there is anything further to be interested in in the first place. Until Crowley forces it to occur to him. Just like I believe Nina forced Crowley to confront the idea that romantic love is what he's been feeling all along, I believe Crowley forced Aziraphale to confront the idea that physical intimacy is something he's been wanting, without even realising.

Aziraphale's Hedonism

Expanding on Aziraphale for a moment. We talked about his relationship with food, but we all know that Aziraphale is defined by his love of things that Feel Good.

It isn't just that he and Crowley love human things. Aziraphale loves the best of the best, or at least his version of it. He doesn't just love food, he loves going to fancy restaurants. He doesn't just love clothes, he loves soft, cosy, warm, plush clothes, or shiny, flashy, bougie fashion. He loves the warmth of tea and cocoa, loves getting drunk, and sitting in a comfy chair in the sunlight. He doesn't just experience, he indulges.

Given the emphasis put on things that Aziraphale loves just because they Feel Good, it feels narratively strange to assume that he wouldn't enjoy the feeling of being touched, or that he wouldn't be willing to try it, at least once, with someone he cared very deeply for. And just like the ox rib, I think that once he gets the first taste of things, he would absolutely tip over into complete and utter self-indulgence.

Dancing

I also think that dancing could be construed as a huge metaphor here. After all, we're told flat-out that angels don't Dance. Except one.

I would argue that Aziraphale, in fact, Made An Effort to learn how to Dance. He threw himself into the gavotte with delight (at a Victorian gay club; noted) and worked hard to be good at it. He's chomping at the bit to Dance with Crowley, working up the nerve to ask him with undeniably romantic intent and eagerness. So, angels don't Dance... unless they Make An Effort to do so.

We are told that demons, on the other hand, do Dance, but not well. Makes sense, since they're the ones who would want to encourage a deadly sin like lust, but have as little understanding of human love and physical intimacy as the angels. Crowley, however, is shown to be an excellent dancer at the ball, especially in his compatibility with Aziraphale.

(But Aziraphale WandaVisioned the ball so everyone knew how to dance! Yes, he did. However, the rest of the brainwashing doesn't seem to affect Crowley in any way, and they did actually live through the time period where this sort of dancing was a social norm; I'd be surprised if he never needed to learn. After all, the demons can't spell either, and Crowley is at least functionally literate, as far as we know.)

As of today, it's also been confirmed that when Aziraphale asked Crowley to dance, Crowley replied with "you don't dance." Not "WE don't dance". So going along with the metaphor, Crowley is just now discovering that Dancing is something Aziraphale is interested in at all, much less with him, and not denying that he himself is interested in Dancing. In his defense, I believe he was asleep for a few years while Aziraphale was learning the gavotte, so he wasn't exactly aware of Aziraphale's hot girl summer.

Love Languages

I want to expand on that; Crowley and Aziraphale's compatibility. Specifically in regards to their individual love languages.

We all know Crowley's love language is Acts of Service. I don't think there's any debate there. He loves it, Aziraphale loves it, they're both aware of it, we're all aware of it, God and Satan are aware of it, no surprise there.

You may disagree with me, but I believe Aziraphale's love language is Physical Touch, for a number of reasons. One of which being his aforementioned hedonism. Aziraphale likes things that Feel Good, remember? He likes soft clothes, and well-worn books. Neil himself has said that they like holding hands. And any time he is taken by surprise (Brielzebub getting together, the wave of love in Tadfield, etc.) what is the first thing he does? Reaches out for Crowley. He stops him with a hand to the chest in the pub. He leads him by the hand to the dance floor. He guides him by the waist in the graveyard. He reaches out during the entire Brielzebub scene, whether he can reach Crowley or not. Despite his own turmoil, he grasps at Crowley's back during the kiss.

The one time Crowley reaches out for him (not counting the kiss yet; we'll get there), he is aggressively pushed against a wall (by someone he loves and trusts) with a complete and utter lack of concern (and perhaps some interest, depending on how you read it).

And when he isn't reaching out for anyone, or there isn't anyone to reach out to? Well, he's wringing his own hands together, squeezing his own fingers, as if to find that physical comfort in himself.

So. With that theory in mind, we have Aziraphale (Physical Touch) + Crowley (Acts of Service). Throw in 6000+ years of deep love, cherished companionship, and forcibly repressed longing, and there is a very real potential of this combination resulting in fierce sexual compatibility. Where Aziraphale would want to touch and be touched, to indulge in physical pleasure with someone he adores, in the same the way he indulges in every other fine thing in his life. And where Crowley would want to indulge him in return, to give him everything he wants, and to take pleasure in Aziraphale's pleasure, in the same way he enjoys watching him take joy in food everything else.

So Aziraphale is an angel who is insecure about his own less-than-holy desires, who would want to treat Crowley like a luxury to be touched and cherished and adored. And Crowley is a demon who has, over the millennia, been unhappy about how they've been forced to deny even their friendship with each other, who would want Aziraphale to feel comfortable and safe and encouraged to indulge in earthly delights. That sounds like a stunning recipe for sexual compatibility to me.

"You said 'trust me'" / "And you did"

Just like the Job minisode, the Blitz is RIFE with symbolism (intentional or otherwise). This one will be quick, but I did want to touch on it because I thought it was interesting. Maybe I'm reaching at this point, but I'm assuming you read the tin.

First of all, Crowley not wanting to admit to never firing a gun before; comes off as someone who very much does not want to admit to their crush that they're a virgin ("You must have done this lots of times!" / "Umm.... yyyyyeah.")

(You could make the argument that Aziraphale having a firearms license and a Derringer in a hollowed-out book is symbolic of him not being a virgin while Crowley is. I disagree, for reasons I'll go into later, but it's a valid reading. However, I see it more like keeping a condom in your wallet; it's there in case you need it, but the opportunity has not yet risen no pun intended.)

More importantly, the theme of this entire minisode is trust. We already know they trust each other with their lives against the rest of Heaven, Hell, and the world. But specifically, this is about the importance of having complete trust in your partner in a charged, physically vulnerable, intimate moment, where the only danger is between the two of you.

Aziraphale needs to believe Crowley would never hurt him if he can help it. Crowley needs to trust Aziraphale's unwavering blind faith in him. Frankly, it all feels very symbolic of two people deeply in love losing their respective virginities with each other.

The trick is a success, and they share an intimate candlelit dinner in which they reaffirm their faith in each other. Aziraphale also begins to voice his agreement with Crowley, that maybe Heaven's rules shouldn't have to be as black and white as they are, and that there are benefits to... blurring the lines, shades of grey, wink wink (at which point even my mom was like, whoa guys, this is a family show).

Btw also: Can we all agree how much it looked like Crowley was getting ready to get a lapdance in that one scene? You know the one.

Also also: "Aim for my mouth"? Come on.

The Birds & The Bees

Now that I think of it, there's also something to be said for the fact that Crowley and Aziraphale are both obviously familiar with where babies come from (how they're made and how they're born) while the other angels aren't.

Something something Aziraphale and Crowley fundamentally understand sex and reproduction in a way the other angels (and probably demons) very much do not, nor have any desire to.

Probably not important. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

The Kiss™ & Religious Trauma

The Kiss. Where to even begin?

This has definitely been the hardest one to start, because there is so much going on here that I definitely won't be able to cover it all, and will certainly miss a few things here and there.

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss afterwards is the most interesting to me. And I don't mean directly after, I don't mean the "I forgive you" part. I mean the way he touches his lips when Crowley is no longer in the room and he no longer needs to save face, when he is completely alone. Had it been directly after the kiss, it would have been rightfully read as horror, or disgust, a shield to discourage further action.

It's not. It isn't just a touch, it's a press. As desperate and angry and unexpected and imperfect as the kiss had been, Aziraphale is pressing it into himself, recreating the feeling as best he can. Beneath all the poor timing and shock and hurt from their fight and fallout, I think it's fair to say that it was something he enjoyed. Something he doesn't think he should enjoy, something that Feels Good that he only allows himself to indulge in when completely alone.

Remember, Aziraphale's idea of love is Jane Austen and gentleness and courtship and fantasy. If he'd ever even considered kissing an option, it might have been gentle pecks, cheek kisses, forehead kiss, hand kisses. Soft, safe, chaste affection.

Crowley's kiss turns all of that on its head. He introduces physical intimacy in a very real, very messy, very human way that I don't think Aziraphale ever even considered could apply to them. Considering what other angels are like and what they look down on, even Aziraphale's Jane Austen fantasies probably would have been considered taboo.

So for their first kiss to be rough and desperate and passionate in the way it was, of course he was confused and in shock. It was deeply physical, and as overwhelming and awful as it was in the moment, it Felt Good. Enough that he grasped at Crowley and kissed back, if only just for a moment, before stopping himself. Enough that he actively pressed it into his lips afterwards, in private, to remember.

I adore how Neil has decided to evolve these characters past the first book/season. More so in this season, Aziraphale and Crowley have both become such interesting allegories for queer people on either side of the spectrum of toxic religion. Aziraphale in particular obviously, because he is the side that so desperately wants to believe, to make a difference, and to unlearn all of the propaganda he's been fed over such a long time. Just like so much of organised religion, there is so much that he is told, time and time again, that he should not want, that he is silly or stupid or outright wrong for wanting. It reminds me so much of the severe Catholic guilt one might feel for wanting/engaging in sex for the first time, and the stigma of being queer layered on top of that.

What is so critical to Aziraphale's character is that he goes on wanting, and more than that, actively pursues. He was convinced to go up against Heaven and Hell and stop all of Armageddon because he wanted to go on listening to music and eating lunch and reading books and enjoying the simple company of the person he cares most deeply for, even if that person is supposed to be the enemy.

All this to say that if angels are as generally asexual/sex-averse as I believe them to be, narratively speaking, it would make sense for Aziraphale to be singular in that regard as well. Mirroring his first experience with food, it would make sense for Crowley to be the one to first introduce this new messy, physical, human dynamic between them, for Aziraphale to hesitate (obviously we are at the Hesitation phase at the moment), and then (eventually) for him to dive in wholeheartedly, to absolutely glut himself on this new thing that Feels Good. It would make sense for his character development to show him overcoming his metaphorical Catholic guilt and pursuing the sexual intimacy most (if not all) of the other angels would scorn.

(I can't help but remember that plot idea Neil described from the unwritten sequel, with Aziraphale in a hotel room trying to watch a full porno by way of the free 2-minute teaser clips so he wasn't technically sinning by paying for it. I so hope this is used in season 3, because gosh, I wonder why Aziraphale would suddenly be so interested in observing human physical intimacy after 6,000 years. Lonely and doing a little surreptitious research there, angel?)

Crowley, on the other hand, is the queer person who has broken free from his toxic religion. He prides himself on being his own person, on their his own side. He doesn't have the hang-ups Aziraphale does. He doesn't worry that he's going to be judged or cast aside for wanting things he's not supposed to. So it only makes sense for him to be the first one to suggest/initiate physical intimacy. It makes sense for him to be the one who "goes too fast" (another fantastic example of this dynamic beginning as early as s1; what is that conversation in the car meant to represent, if not Aziraphale being overwhelmed by the intensity of their relationship, and his fear of succumbing to it when he believes he shouldn't? It's also interesting that this is the first conversation to take place in Soho, just after watching Aziraphale realise he's caught feelings for a demon, with the red glow of lust serving as the backdrop).

Do I think the kiss in and of itself was sexual? No. I think it was a passionate and devastating last-ditch effort on Crowley's part to convey the way he feels for Aziraphale. Not just that he loves him, but that he loves him in the most human way possible. But I do think that the kiss represents how they can move forward from here, and what they might want to explore with each other once they feel free enough to do so.

In Conclusion

I am sure, deep in my bones (unless we are explicitly told otherwise), that this was both of their first kisses no, I'm not counting the gavotte, and that neither of them have ever thought to do anything else physical with the humans while they have been on Earth. Like I said before, they adore the human race and lifestyle in general, but ultimately view them as a separate species altogether, and they seem mostly happy to keep to themselves and each other, unless otherwise necessary. I just can't see either of them being drawn enough to a human to pursue anything close to sex. If Crowley in particular has had anything to do with sex in the context of temptations, I'm positive he would be inciting lust amongst the humans themselves, not involving himself directly. At least not that directly.

So, like every other human experience they've had on Earth, sex is something new that they could explore together, just the two of them, on their own side. A deeply intimate, tangible declaration of their love and everything they've gone through to earn it. A visceral finger to give both Heaven and Hell. A renewed appreciation for their corporations and for each other's. A enjoyable method for immortal beings to simply pass the time in each other's company. A new and exciting way to Feel Good, and all the variations that come with it.

You might agree with this post, or you might not. Whether this is something that is ever addressed or not, it doesn't matter to me. This is a brilliant love story either way, and I genuinely feel so privileged to witness it.

But I just can't find it in myself to imagine, given everything we know about these two characters, that sex isn't an experience they would both consume with wholehearted enthusiasm, curiosity, and profound, ineffable adoration.

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Bonus feature: the very silly notes I made to myself that inspired this post

[mahoutoons]

no, the sailor moon 90s anime is not more feminst than the manga

i've seen people herald the 90s anime as this beacon of feminism just because it focuses on the relationship between the inner senshi instead of usagi and mamoru's relationship. there's this idea that the manga being more about romance makes it inherently less feminist than the anime. but i want to shut that idea down.

people keep circulating these three screenshots to prove the 90s anime is this feminist masterpiece

but just a scene prior in the SAME EPISODE, rei calls usagi ugly COMPLETELY UNPROVOKED

yes there's teasing between friends but come on. usagi didn't even do anything to warrant being compared to a monkey.

and speaking of rei... she's so heavily lesbian coded in the manga. literally her nightmare in the dream arc is getting married and settling down in the trad family sense. which she destroys with her akuryo taisan like the lesbian queen she is. also her distrust of men is a big part of her character in every adaptation... except the 90s anime which made her boy crazy and have that plotline where she gets with mamoru for a while for the sake of a rivalry with usagi!

there's the whole jealousy thing with chibiusa which is honestly weird no matter the adaptation and idk why ANYONE thought that was a good idea. but its somehow WORSE in the 90s anime. at least, at the very LEAST in the manga she actually communicates with mamoru about her insecurities and the whole jealousy thing only lasts in the black moon arc (which continues staying the worst arc regardless of the adaptation). in the anime... it lasts well into the end of supers... TWO SEASONS after usagi found out chibiusa was her and mamoru's daughter!

and lets talk about how they made usagi jealous over small things in supers! look i get it, she's a teenage girl and she gets jealous easily. but when you get jealous of a child who is also your future daughter and an old woman your boyfriend tried to help, that's when you have issues. there's an entire fucking episode where she stalks rei just because mamoru is staying at her house for a day!

and the most egregious thing which makes me laugh at any claim of the 90s anime being much more feminist than the manga.. is how they handled prince demande. you know, the guy who kidnapped and sexually assaulted usagi? in the manga and crystal, he's killed off unceremoniously.

but guess what ikuhara, the feminist king who knows to write SO MUCH BETTER than naoko, did. he tried to make demande sympathetic. he made usagi sympathise with him.

yasssss ikuhara you go make the pedophile sexual assaulter sympathetic, you feminist king! you definitely know SO MUCH BETTER than naoko!

and people thought crystal was antifeminist? get outta my face with that at least crystal didn't try to make the fucking borderline rapist sympathetic, he disintegrated in a pile of dust like he deserves.

you might be thinking "get outta here no one says the 90s anime is more feminist than the manga". well yes people do. you'd be surprised. i went to an old anime confession blog and found these posts back when crystal was still new and still had a MASSIVE hatedom

and these are just some of the posts. there's so much more. people who dared to enjoy crystal were called misogynistic for... liking a show. even today i see people bash naoko for the smallest things while praising ikuhara as a feminist king and lgbt ally who did more for the community than naoko (which is funny because the 90s anime has an episode where makoto has a crush on haruka and the girls are like "nuuuuuu mako you can't date haruka you're a girl" which wasn't in the manga). when he wouldn't even have been able to make the anime without naoko's manga.

there's an interview with naoko takeuchi where she says that the difference between the manga and 90s anime was that the 90s anime had a male perspective as it was directed by men while the manga mostly had a female perspective as it was written by a woman.

and it honestly really shows when you watch the anime again.

was the 90s anime progressive for its time? yes. is the manga peak feminist literature? no. you can prefer the 90s anime over the manga but don't go acting like its inherently more feminist than the manga just because it doesn't focus as much on the romance aspect. the manga focusing more on usagi and mamoru's romance doesn't make it inherently less feminist.

[formulinos]

@topnotchquark mccanned didn’t answer you yet but i can!

Michael Schumacher is, as commonly well known, the best f1 driver that there has ever been and that there will ever be. amongst the reasons for it was the fact my guy would do quali laps during races because might as well and everything he did in hid personal/training time was with the goal of being as physically fit for racing as possible (to the point he tried to replicate his body’s responses during races while working out. because might as well.)

this is all to say that you do not win 7 wdc by sheer luck, it takes going to the next level. so as a treat, he would scheme. he would plot. he would lie. and he would bamboozle. some of it was through more direct action like whenever he tried to crash his car into his rivals’ to win a championship (worked w damon hill, it didn’t work with villeneuve bc people were homophobic - michael is part of the lgbt+ community since he is texassexual). but often he’d just focus on the little things, like working out in high intensities in front of drivers to make them feel bad about themselves or whatever nico’s claims were.

his main modus operandi however was usually running his mouth to the press according to his own personal narrative. for instance, when mclaren were doing good in the early 00s, coming off two wdcs with mika häkkinen, he needed to get someone there riled up so they would eventually fuck up. he couldn’t do that straight to häkkinen though, not only because he respected him but because mika was at the time equal to him in championships so ppl knew they were close in talent and above average overall. luckily, mclaren’s second driver was david coulthard, who was mid but thought he was capable of beating both mika and michael. well, when ppl asked ANYTHING about david to schumi he’d straight go like “the guy who thinks can wipe the floor with me and my beloved mika? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA-“ and then ignore the rest of the question. this was totally personal as david took part in the aforementioned homophobic takedown of michael in 1997 but also overall david was just mid and sometimes you have to bully someone to deflate their ego a lil bit. so david would get mad regularly and anger would lead him to be carelesd while driving and he would bottle it. BUT ALSO even ron dennis (mclaren main boss at the time) would get mad and go to the media like “sshjuuuut upppp,.,,., david totally csn win the cuampionshippp i csn’t belive you michel!!!!!!!”. mika would just smile and agree w michael bc he too knew david was mid.

but michael wouldn’t just take people down. sometimes, he would raise them up just for the imposter syndrome of it all. like in 2004, a season where evidently ferrari had as a car the F-TITBLASTER9000 and michael would easily clean the house, he would often say that BAR Honda (who in all fairness were in a great phase) were gonna catch up to them and eventually win a race later in the year. to which jenson button legit had to respond like “mate you know this is my first year taking this sport seriously and the other driver on the team is literally takuma sato. we’re not winning shit this championship and you know it”. and yes he did. BAR ended second but they never won a single race.

he even tried to run his mouth on ayrton senna after a on-track dispute saying that it wasn’t a “behaviour fit for a WC”. but he was just a rookie while senna was an expert on the game, so he went there and gave michael a tell-off in front of every single camera on the paddock, live (you can check on youtube, too lazy for links today sorry!). michael learned from it and perfected the art of media shit talking. he is missed everyday as the closest we get to michael antics is helmut marko’s wild claims and they’re not half as entertaining.

anyway this is what i remembered there are probably more examples. welcome to f1, hope you enjoy the sport! your new missions as a newbie is to become part of the tifosi and try to soak some more of the history of formula 1 overall bc it will help you detect who is talking shit around the fandom! if you like some weird stories, consider my pinned essays :)

[sixty-silver-wishes]

Yo, your art is sick! It's fucked up in the best kind of way! Also I remember that era of projecting onto Alma, I was very much the same when I first saw Encanto. But here's the thing. She gave birth three times over, watched her home be ravaged and burned to the ground by bandits, had to walk in the middle of the jungle after giving birth three times away from the only place she's known whilst carrying said three babies, only to have the love of her life slaughtered in front of her because he thought it a good idea to sacrifice himself AND BECAME THE LEADER OF A TOWN AND DEAL WITH A MAGICAL FUCKING HOUSE ALL IN THE SPAN OF 24 HOURS ALL WHILST MAINTAINING THE IMAGE THAT SHE HAS HER SHIT TOGETHER AND KNOWS WHAT TO DO. Alma may not be my favourite character and yes, she doesn't get it right, but she is far from being the villain.

thank you!

I got jumpscared for a hot minute because I thought you were talking about alma mahler (whom I have posted about in the past) before I realized you were talking about the encanto character lmao

but I agree! one of the reasons why it’s one of my favorite disney movies is because it explores family issues in such a dynamic and nuanced way, and while her actions were damaging to the family, they ultimately came from a place of love for them and for her community. the fact that the movie acknowledged this while also addressing how she hurt her family, even with good intentions, was something I really appreciated, and I’m sure a lot of other people did as well.

I was mainly laughing at how, back when the fandom was in its peak, people blew her character WAY out of proportion to how it was written in the movie- for instance, a common hc I often saw was that she forced bruno out or disowned him, while in the movie, he left on his own. while the rest of the town ostracized him for his predictions, his family readily accepted him back, suggesting that they were more hurt by the fact that he left the family without any explanation than by anything he may have predicted. (and from alma’s perspective, if she viewed the family’s duty was to serve the town, it must have been even more hurtful to her if he just left without saying why.) so, both characters are pretty nuanced and complicated, but I saw a lot of fandom hcs and posts that characterized alma as everything from physically abusive to homophobic (with regard to the popular headcanons that bruno, mirabel, and isabela were lgbt). when like, as you said, she’s a deeply flawed person, but she never was as bad as a lot of people made her out to be.

I think what happened there was, as “encanto” is a story about, among other things, familial trauma, people wanted to explore their own familial trauma with these characters because they related to them. it’s a big cast of characters who are all related, so obviously you’re going to find one you connect with (and personally, I saw a lot of myself in mirabel, which is part of why I like the movie so much). or maybe, as fandom does, people just wanted to come up with stories, headcanons, and character dynamics with this big cast of characters they liked. and because a lot of people viewed alma as the source of the family’s trauma (which she sort of was), she became an avatar for all the traumatic things people wanted to explore through those stories, such as abuse or bigotry, even if she may not have displayed those concepts in canon.

overall, at the end of the day, I don’t think there’s anything right or wrong with people interpreting media the way they do; that’s what media is for, and if someone casting alma madrigal as a terrible person helps them work out their own issues, that’s great; she’s a fictional character, so there’s no harm done to anyone. I just think it’s sort of funny how a whole fandom saw this one fictional old lady and collectively decided she was the Worst.

[oldsweetchildomeow]

Reviewing GG character design part #2 GGX 2000 Johnny

This is for everyone who said I can't talk about other men. Hah... (no one ever said that).

This one will be long since he has one of my favorite designs.

Beforehand, Johnny's FINAL designs of choice has always been absolutely immaculate (except, obviously, for that ugly horrible gross design he has on that pachinko game for fuck sake please never put that in my sight ever). It never changed much, actually, if you look superficially at every appearance of his, you will notice no difference at all. Daisuke knew what he was doing from the start to the LGBT community and the straight females who had too much pride to admit they found him attractive.

From XX to Strive, it barely changed. But his first appearance (in-game) is the most different one.

Also I'm sorry for the amount of "whore" usage here. I just wanted to shame on him because he himself doesn't do it.

Now, again I will be using the same structure;

1. What does it tell you about him? (Johnny's case whore)

2. Is it aesthetically appealing artistically?

3. Would it be actually comfortable to fight with that?

GGX 2000

I know this is from petit but it's so cute I had to put that here for click baiting. He looks edible being this minuscule, no joke.

What does it tell you about Johnny?

Actually, many things. I must confess, the first time I played GG (which was GGXX) my eyes were LOCKED on him (and Testament, but that's for another post). He was one of the ones I played the most just because of how stylish and cool he is. That's the power of character design; I didn't know shit about this guy and suddenly I was using him to beat the shit out of my brother with his coins for hours.

I can say, even from personal experience: he exhales flamboyance, style and charisma. The guy CARES about his looks and there's no denying about that just by a mere glance. His hat matching his trench coat and pants... the small details on every bit of it, matching. The SHADES... you know only stud mfs wear shades for no reason. The shades gave it all, and there's not even a reason for him to use that if not for appearance (proving the point he cares a lot about it), because his hat is already bigger than mother Earth, big enough for the sun to not reach this guy's whore face with his whore clothes. I mean, when you see a character showing this much skin for no reason it must only mean that he has absolute no shame about it... then he's a... well.

Him being muscular isn't something unique since almost all FG male cast would be like that too (specially during that time), but his build is something that is smoothly different. He has a whore's waist. Thankfully just like Sol. But that's just because Ishiwatari has good taste in men.

He COULD button his coat but he visibly chose to have it open to show his body. Even small things like his pants being well-fitting tells you that he has some vanity to him and that he loves to show-off shamelessly. Like a good w

As for his background, he clearly reminds you a bit of two things; a tiny mix of a pirate and a cowboy (or that he's just pretending to be both). When the traditional cowboy comes into mind, the first thing I think about is big hats and flashy belts, and guess what, he has both. I think the color palette gives more the idea of a pirate, due to mostly being referenced as black and brown colors in clothing. Most pirates representation on media has unnecessary belt that they wear for no reason but to have this hugeass thing heaving your movement (because it's stylish and I admit it is, damnit).

Furthermore, the golden details around his design show wealth, which greatly emphasizes the pirate concept.

But what's the most interesting part about all that? It's his weapon of choice.

It's not even remotely something a cowboy would use, and pirate swords are definitely not like that by far. He simply uses a japanese traditional sword and fights with battou style.

This is the most unique thing about him that makes him stand out even more, specially when you compare him to any other pirate or cowboy character. Not only that, but think about other characters that you will see fighting the same style as he does, like Ukyo Tachibana from Samurai Shodown.

And just like Ukyo, he also does iaido, one of the most fascinating fighting styles; it's filled with grace and precision, and yet it's that same flamboyant whore guy doing it. That's what caught my attention the most about him, easily. It raises tons of questions about him, and you start thinking that he has more depth than simply being a cowboyish pirate.

His hair... his god bless long hair... that is no longer with us nowadays. Oh pity on me... pity on silly me who is a sucker for long haired dudes. I can't tell much. I know pirates mostly used to have long hair too, but I wanted to hold him by his ponytail and shake him from side to side, hitting every possible corner. dearly. as a love language.

Is it visually appealing overall?

YOU BET it is. Oh, how it is. It's immaculate. It's perfect. It's so simple in color choice but it's so visually functional I start trembling. I want to kiss Ishiwatari's mouth so bad for this.

Firstly, just LOOK at how smoothly his cape always flows with his movement. When I was a teenager my jaw DROPPED everytime. The black, the brown, the white, in perfect harmony... oh my god *starts trembling viciously*

It's perfect.... why did Ishiwatari have to go this hard... he was so inspired when he gave birth to Johnny.

There's a detail that's also curious. When you wear clothing that covers too much of a part of your body, it's always a more pleasurable and classy highlight, even in a sensual manner, to have an exposed area to contrast that.

An example of this would be a super long dress that covers a lot, but that same dress having a cleavage on the chest or being open in the back. Just think that if you wear very short shorts with a top that is just as short, there will be a lot of skin and little idea, little emphasis. Now if you wear long pants and a short top, you will only be showing a fraction of your body, and this is more aesthetically pleasing. It's a matter of fashion.

Johnny's case has a lot of this in an intelligent way: he wears long pants, gloves, and you barely even see his face, but he doesn't wear a SHIRT. There's a whole open area in the center of his body, which is a very well used of exposure in fashion (I even marked it in the second image)- which, also, gives emphasis to the idea of him caring about his image and being a stylish character. The fact that it's even congruent with his personality just shows how very professional Daisuke is.

Is it actually PRACTICAL to fight with that figurine?

Well, there's nothing too harmful about that overall. The fabric his pants and trench coat seems to be made of doesn't look that heavy, and he not wearing a shirt and having his coat unbuttoned gives him more mobility. And sex appeal, which can be useful if you try to distract your opponent.

His fighting style does not necessarily require movement with the entire body, so it's not an obstacle in any way. His fingerless gloves can be quite helpful due to his style as well, since holding a sword can hurt your hand a lot in the long run.

Conclusion

men's waists be so small like what do u need that small waist for? for other men to grab it? whore.

Bonus content

This is me trying to explain everything I said here to my girlfriend sometime ago, and she was in such disbelief that she took this screenshot.

[possumsinpeoplesuits]

It's coming up on 18 years since I first came out to my family as trans, and I've been getting increasingly infuriated at the way people talk about transitioning being "too easy" because the younger trans community (sometimes) doesn't have to go through the same hoops I did, and just...

I was fucking twelve when I came out, okay? I came out during the Bush years, in a town of less than five thousand people in rural Texas. I didn't know a single other trans person, I barely even knew it was possible. Instead of being allowed puberty blockers, or hormones, I was subjected to two different kinds of conversion therapy and a god damn exorcism.

I had to watch my body go through the wrong puberty, had to keep myself from total despair with absolutely zero support. I have been beaten, I have been harassed, and I came out the other side with a half dozen suicide attempts and PTSD so bad that my body just shut my adrenal glands down on me.

At no point in this torture did I ever doubt that I was still trans. When I hit 18, I immediately went the self-medication route and managed my own spironolactone and estradiol until I "looked" trans enough for everyone to suddenly flip script and believe the things I'd been saying since I was in fucking middle school.

And y'know what? When I started hormones, and I started introducing myself with my preferred name, and got to live how I wanted? I was absolutely elated. Despite all the mental troubles, the fact that I lived in a literal barn, all that, I was so god damned overjoyed that I finally got to be me.

My dad apologized with tears in his eyes one night that he hadn't supported me. I forgave him because, well... he trusted the people who told him that I couldn't be trans and autistic, or that I was only transfem because I hated him (I didn't, but it was enough to tear our relationship apart), or even that me knowing so early must've been a sign of FUCKING RAPE.

This man had no information to go off of except for what these abusive fucks told him. I had to sit and argue and try to educate as a twelve year old, and it got me nowhere because the fundamentalists around us had a monopoly on information, and their biases were profound.

So now, when I hear people talking about trans kids today, acting like it's easy because transitioning is even an option for them, or that friend groups of LGBT teens can be out and proud, or even have supportive parents (if they're lucky)... and then they talk about that like it's a bad thing? That we should roll back progress on the off chance that the one in however many hundreds of transitioners detransitions, because of the erroneous belief that transition is "too easy" and that the widespread abuse of the past was a good thing because there were less out trans people?

I get absolutely fucking enraged. I crawled through this shit like a half-stomped cockroach so these kids wouldn't have to go through what I did. I've talked and been open about my experiences to educate people, I've been patient when people say ignorant shit because I have to be the good example, the picture of mental stability of someone who's gone through transition and came out the other side as a healthier individual.

I'm not allowed to show the scars they gave me. I am not allowed to fuck up, or fail, because this panopticon of transphobia will latch onto anything they can to say that me finally getting to live is a bad thing. I will sit, and act the part of a fuckin' saint, and gently try to change minds, to make them understand that the years I lost were an unnecessary cruelty that has no place in a modern, loving world.

But beneath that cool, patient exterior, I will always be angry. Angry for the cruelty, and the nostalgia for cruel times that, I should remind everyone, barely even paused before this backlash started to bring them back.

Whenever I hear that trans people shouldn't have support, that they should have to beg and crawl and bleed just to be themselves, like I did, like most people in my generation did, I have to sit there, so thick skinned I'm nothing but callouses, and I have to argue so very gently for the lives of everyone like me, because the moment I lash out, I lose.

Today, I am someone who's on a list the attorney general of my state demanded of everyone who has legally changed their gender marker in Texas. I am watching propagandists fabricate blood libel about us out of thin air. There's a firehose of falsehoods drowning out everything true about trans people, and playing peacekeeper ain't helping. So, to all the transphobes out there, here's a comment eighteen years overdo:

Go facefuck yourself with a shotgun, and leave trans kids alone. Just deepthroat it down to the fucking stock, and choke on it.

Now back to our regularly scheduled shitposting.

[theroundbartable]

It recently has come to my attention that there will be a new Harry Potter Series.

More under the cut, about my frustrations with it. I'm a little angry and emotional.

I'm tired. I am so fucking tired of JKR, of the never ending story that is the wizarding world.

I'm tired of the commercialism, the way she's milking her own franchise. Her fans. ( She's going to be paid per episode.)

The way she threatened them over publishing fanfics in the past.

I'm tired of the queer erasure in her books. I'm tired of the framing of marginalized groups as oppressors on her fucking twitter.

I'm tired of her pretentious feminism, because that's not what she stands for. If you don't treat trans women as women, you're not a feminist. Period. Yes, women are oppressed, but not by trans women, for god's sake, how can anyone even think that. Trans women are doubly opprossed. For being women and for being trans. It's called intersectionality, look it up.

In a podcast "the witch trials of JK Rowling" she made tumblr the enemy???? Tumblr???? You mean THE most chaotic Website for socially awkward people who talk about their blorbos and who are like 80% of your target audience? Those people? That's the evil people? Because the only power they have is canceling the people in power who oppress them? Yeah, for goodness sake, then don't be a bitch. (Disclaimer, i watched a video that more or less gave the gist of the Podcast. With direct quotes.)

I'm so tired. Harry Potter taught me to read. It's what got me into writing. It's, ironically, how I first learned what racism was, because until I was 12 I hadn't been confronted with the subject. (I admit, I did a racist thing back then in writing. I was 12, came from a pretty white village and I simply didn't know better. The encounter that called me out at the time, became part of the reason why I also invested into learning about the LGBT+ community to make sure I didn't do the same thing again. It was and still is a process that also lead to self discovery.)

It makes me so mad to see that legacy be tainted at the roots.

I'm not going to tell anyone whether or not to watch the new show. I don't have the moral high ground to make such a demand. Liking Harry Potter doesn't mean you share JKRs views. But like... At least pirate it, so she doesn't get the money. She doesn't deserve it.

She doesn't know when a story ends. Harry Potter was over after the 7th book. Everything else is a shitty spin off that lives off of HP' popularity. I'm honestly at a point where I don't want to see her name ever again.

Just. Stop.

[catcatb0y]

This is the same op. The same post. Just edited.

I entered the notes expecting a TERF block list, but I was instead greeted with thousands of accepting and understanding queer people echoing the initial statement. Butch lesbians loving being called 'boyfriends', casual women enjoying "dude," or "bro," or "man," people embracing he/him lesbians, an abundance of love for drag kings, and people being incredibly supportive of gnc and genderfluid people.

But the edited post. Is TERF bait.

Like, taking it at the value that it's at (we should hate men because they can fuck with gender but we can't) is outrageously hypocritical??

Misandry (a predjudice/hatred of men and masculinity mirroring that of misogny) is not going to solve the demonization of masculinity within the queer community- which is a large part of WHERE the issue originates. The queer community and the non-queer community have two vastly different divides (which is important when considering the 'legitimacy' around discussions concerning misandry)

The reason [non queers] push or accept femininity in gay men is because of misogny, because it allows them to push a homophobic stereotype of gay men being 'basically women' and therefore [basically (lower than) men]. Gay men reclaim this stereotype by embracing said femininity, but that does not exempt them from the misogyny that they face as gay or gnc men*.

Because of that misogyny outside of the queer community, the people who use femininity to demonize gay men are appalled by the idea of using masculinity to empower queer women.

If this were the standard case within the LGBT community, it would already be rectified by the very people who have claimed to create a community haven.

But it's not.

Because the LGBT community has created a reactionary space based on the same principals that demonized them, but in reverse.

The reason that LGBT people aren't accepting of he/him butches or drag kings or masculine gnc women is because a large part of them has pushed out that masculinity and created a stereotype of femininity being the epitome of comfort and queerness. Gay women who attempt to co-opt any sort of masculinity are demonized by the (fear) of [the patriarchy] in the form of men, and their femaleness does not exempt them from the bioexistentialist misandry that has been birthed of TERF ideology*.

Because of, what's boiled down to radical reverse misogyny (which leads to reactionary misandry), the people who use femininity to (humble) and claim gay men as "safe" via are appalled by their very own Peak Of Goodness (women who are Pure and Good, who Only Love women who are Good and Pure) co-opting the very thing they have claimed to build a haven from.

(*It's the same principle in reverse. Feminine gay men still experience misogny, and masculine gay women still experience misandry. There is no predjudice that ONLY harms it's attempted target. Ergo: misandry would NOT help gay women who want to act masculine or to be a man.)

Misandry and butch lesbians cannot coexist. Misandry is the thing that gets trans women assaulted in women's bathrooms. Misandry is the thing that gets transmasc nonbinary people turned away at the door to queer spaces. Misandry is the thing teaching young lesbians to parrot "All men suck," like 'Polly wants a cracker'- because wild concept. Women- espeically wlw- who don't like men. Won't be welcoming and accepting of people like them (women (who love women)) co-opting the language of the people they hate.

[queerculus]

personal feelings about sexuality and gender

I am on board with the “sexuality and gender are not the same thing” train because it is mostly true.

but. as a gay man who has had to go through some shit I personally feel like I cannot separate my sexuality from my gender. like I cannot separate that the way I am attracted to men involves us both being men. like in a “I need him to love my beard and chest hair and the way it feels for the words ‘good boy’ to come out of his own mouth when I’m on my knees or this cannot work.”

maybe it would be different if I hadn’t experienced so many awful things because of my sexuality. or maybe it wouldn’t! maybe I would be just as hard-wired to need these things, who knows, maybe it doesn’t matter why, but it’s a need. a psychological need that makes or breaks long term relationships and basic attraction that is inseparable from my sense of self because of how deeply it impacts how I navigate the world

I’m saying all of this bc I personally fund and keep contact with the only organized lgbt group in a very rural, very religious part of north carolina where I had the worst experiences of my life, and bc it’s anchored at a community college a lot of the kids there have very. 2010’s attitudes about sex and gender that are like 90% of the way there and waiting for them to have the life experience necessary to figure out that last 10%

and they are like mega adamant that sexuality and gender are totally separate and anyone who says otherwise is probably a terf or some other type of transphobe. and like yeah, maybe that’s true for you but it isn’t true for all of us. the way I experience sexual desire and romantic compatibility is deeply connected with not only my sense of self but with how I am perceived by my lover. if he doesn’t see me in a way I want to be seen, in a way I am comfortable with being seen, then it will not work. if he doesn’t appreciate and isn’t aroused by my maleness the way I am his, it simply can’t happen

(for the record, this applies to trans men and masc non-binary folks as well. I use “man” and “male” here simply because it is the most closest way to convey this feeling in words)

and like it fucking sucks that I have to hear this from them. like I went on this whole 10 year remaking and breaking and remaking of myself again to finally settle into a way of being that I am happy with but here I am listening to people who have not even left the house yet talk about this complex, deeply personal connection to sex and gender I have been reflecting on for years in a way that makes me feel like they view me as the enemy.

and I’m not! so I shut my mouth and pay the bills while they pack their little rucksacks for a difficult journey of self discovery because there is no way I can put this into words they are even able to process with their limited experience. I have physically and emotionally explored with myself and others in ways they are unprepared to handle and I have to keep quiet to avoid creating a rift between myself and the community I am keeping afloat with cash.

it’s just difficult. and there is no way to change the circumstances where anyone benefits.

there are so many other thoughts I cannot even find the words for and some that I can but cannot make myself write because I don’t think I want to be seen that deeply by others.

life is so fucking beautiful and messy and no one experiences it the same way. I wish I could tell these kids that without them hating it.

[wellthatwasaletdown]

I've read hilarious tags to a tweet (that was posted on tumblr): Don't think Harry Styles likes dressing like that. Looks miserable in pics. Probably is like hey man can I wear a suit or something. maybe a big t-shirt Pete Davidson gets to wear big stinky shirts. And his handler is like nah you're a fake gay guy gotta wear fake gay guy clothes

The tags (and some replies): -he exists so straight people can be allies without actually being allied to any queer people /hj -Hey yeah the issue is not that he isn't wearing ""man clothes"" the issue is that he looks like shit and it feels incredibly performative to everyone except you fans. -the issue is that his music is bad. if he was putting out bangers no one would gaf how he looks. You know who never got this kind of reaction for wearing a dress? kid cudi. cause man puts out bangers -its what happens when you only achieve level of solo fame by being part of a wattpad ship -I just saw you rb the diamond jumpsuit and he looks so uncomfortable it gave me sympathetic dysphoria. Like legitimately he looks like he's desperately closeted, but like for cishet people. He looks like want transphobes think we do to people. Like those shitty alt right political cartoons of like 'in 2030 everyone will be forced to be queer at gunpoint'. Lazer sniper sight glinting off his diamanté encrusted extra nipple -sure he's fighting gender norms but the gender norms are winning -he looks like a very boring conservative man's idea of a gay man. Like whatever he's made some good music and he seems like an alright person. But I cannot find it in me to be happy for him. He looks manufactured -Literally like you look at the photos of 70's glam rock stars and like. Not only are they rocking it but they seem to be beyond comfortable in it in that 'this is me' way. Styles looks as if he'd kill for a pair of khakis and a hoodie -Dude the logic around Harry has fully switched. First it's 'oh no management isn't allowing him to be gay' and now it's 'omg he's acting gay only because his pr team told him to -Why do Harry Style stans try to suck your eyes out of your skull if you criticize him? Celebrity culture makes me wanna self immolate lol I am saying that's just him trying to be more special than his designated bland pop singer for straight girls niche


Said in a server last night he looked like he just came in straight from a cke binge. Then said he looked like that hairy pink dancing creature with that silver look 😭 
He just always looks like sht man…you're rich. I know you can afford to challenge gender roles and dress well Wearing the ugliest rompers w his nips out just aint cutting it


LMAO he looks SO sad in the diamond jumpsuit people have been comparing it to their pre transition pics

-fake pretentious c*nt. *untalented -he really is just some guy being forced to be a gay icon mf showed up looking like a batman villain -Nah i was directioner and harry biased then and he always dresses like that. But yeah i agree his stylists and producers say for him to exaggerate and pretend he is the modern david bowie when in fact he is just a boyband soloist lmao hes in my top 5 on spotify for the past million years TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE

-if 2021 target pride collection was personified.

-this is exactly how my 62 y/o mom talks abt him lmaoooo. Liike she HATES him she thinks he’s a total phony and finds him an insult to the lgbt community#best ally tbh gotta love her

-I've literally been saying this like he’s just doing this for the money but for how long 😭😭 -ite transtrender but for gay people

-ok. there was this huge ass paper thing full of his new cd in the middle of my favourite record shop. Making the already small store even more cramped. so fuck him#there you go i <3 being a hater

-he’s literally not gay. if he was i’d become homophobic

(Sorry if some of them are too rude, I have hard time discerning bc I don't speak to many people on the internet and don't know fully what's the proper etiquette)

.

[cdaae]

Thank you for speaking up about the very real issues in tPotO fandom. You are not the only one to feel unsafe and unwelcome in it from fake allyship. Everyone wants to be an ally until it’s time to do ally stuff. I guess many would rather look the other way to keep the peace but how does that feel to the people affected by these things? I wish this fandom would do better. But from what I have seen I am not hopeful.

This phandom can be so great. I've been here for a long time and I've made some many friends and changed and grown so much over the years. I was young when I first got here and I didn't see a lot of the problems. Then I stepped back for a bit. And now that I'm here as an adult and I’m active again, seeing some of the things going on that don't get addressed... it's disheartening. There are a lot of people here that don't get involved in this kind of thing and I get that. It can be messy and honestly fucking scary to call someone out for being shitty. I still get anxious talking about the Jessica situation- she has a documented history of going after people who try to speak up against her. But it also gets to a point, for me anyway, where I feel like I need to say something. And I don't expect anything from people here. Sometimes I'm just venting. Sometimes I'm trying to give people here a heads up about someone they might come into contact with. It doesn't happen very often. Insolentboi was a big one and now Jessica. And if people don't interact with my posts- there could be many reasons. I don't judge, I don't care. I feel like I've done what I can by speaking up. But what does suck is the people who interact with the posts and act like they care and even share the posts in order to spread awareness and then turn around and continue to be friends with her. I know they know that she's a racist, homophobic bully. So do they not really care? Is their e/c fix more important than not supporting someone like that? As a member of the lgbt+ community, seeing someone pretend like they care here and remain friendly with a homophobe makes me feel unsafe. I know I can't trust you now because whatever you're getting out of her content is more important. Even if her book was really good, I can't understand this.

I had a conversation with someone recently that I'd been friendly with in the past. I showed them some of the things Jessica has done and they acted horrified and were so grateful that I informed them because they wouldn't want to interact with someone like that. And yet... she still goes out of her way to be nice to Jessica. I've talked to a few people about it and it's not because I want them to block her necessarily but because I would want to know if someone I was interacting with was a racist, homophobic bully. But what bothers me is the fake show- when someone reacts just absolutely horrified, when they reblog posts, and say things like "oh I'm definitely not going to read her book"... and then they leave a comment telling her how wonderful her book is. It's the people that know, act like they care, but still continue to show her support that are getting to me. This is the fake allyship- trying to convince me you care about the issue but continuing to openly support the problem.

Sometimes it can be frustrating to try and draw attention to a problem and people here don't say anything. I do wish more of the community would be an active part of these things, because that's how we make change. Jessica wasn't blacklisted from the supernatural fandom until the community spoke out on a large scale and drew attention to the things she was doing. I hope to god we don't let her behavior get as bad as it's gotten in her other fandoms before we finally do something or worse, that we never do anything. Everyone deserves to feel safe in fandom.

Thank you for your message. I'm sorry that you're experiencing the same feelings. Phandom can be so great for sharing ideas and making art and just having community, but there are the ugly parts too.

[opinated-user]

i think lily's "LGBTA" stuff is nonsence, honestly. no acronym is ever going to be wholly inclusive; that's why queer is being adopted more and more by people as a catch-all for the community. it's simply easier to say. it also speaks to a kind of pride i feel younger queer people have been sorely lacking in. not to mention how corporatized "LGBT pride" has become already. we desperately need a word that is seen as "undesirable" by corpos so they'll stay the fuck away.

not to mention the word "queer" has existed for decades prior to the adoption of LGBT. LGB (the T didn't come until later) only started being adopted in some communities in the 80's. the word "gay" was still being used as a catch all akin to queer in the 90's and early 2000's. the erasure of the word "queer" as a term that is acceptable to use for our community is a modern take had by people who know nothing about their history.

we already had the acronym debate back in the early 2010's right here on tumblr. QUILTBAG, MOGAI, and dozens of "better" acronyms were created because of how many people "LGBT" leaves out in its goal to be easy to use in conversation. this is by design. the "full" acronym (LGBTQQIP2SAA) is so clunky and god awful that queer people on tiktok started calling themselves the "alphabet mafia" after insults slung at them by queerphobic people.

but nobody wanted to look a few feet over to see a perfectly good word sitting and collecting dust, because "it's a slur" despite it having been successfully reclaimed decades before anybody engaging in this discourse was even a twinkle in their parents eyes.

TL;DR lily has no idea what she's talking about when it comes to queer discourse. it's also incredibly funny how often she excludes the "Q" in favor of the "A", while also being incredibly Aphobic herself.

i can't stress this enough: the goal of insisting on less inclusive labels like LGBT as the only "valid" alternative and put down queer is precisely to exclude people. this is why TERFs (real TERFs, not any trans woman that disagreed with LO or called her out) love to contribute to the "queer is a slur" discourse. this is why the post that LO saw was emblematic of all of her thoughts and feelings regarding queer came from a openly conservative person. the goal is the exclusion, not just a coincidence. if somehow they manage to take out of the queers out of the way they can continue on with the T and B, both letters attacked at more frequency that most people would believe and that to some don't deserve to be part of the acronym at all. just look at the hate group LBG that is ran by straight homophobic/transphobic people. just look who are the people with the signs "lesbian, not queer" at prides or TERFs events. the point is to convince us to fight among ourselves and separate us, to create a distance that will destroy us from the inside out. if you personally don't like to be called queer then that's just your choice, but by denying us our word and our community that's when you're conveniently playing into the hands of the people who want to divide us, who don't want to see us united.

[weemietime]

The problem with her statement that she knows most people aren't extremists, is that this is in fact the problem. People are becoming increasingly OK with seeing Nazi rhetoric as ordinary and not extreme at all.

People who you otherwise would have thought of as friends are now praising Hezbollah, a group recognized internationally as terrorists, which is proven to be funded by Iran, who have killed over 200 active duty US military personnel in the marine bunker explosions and who routinely purposely target civilians such as the AMIA bombing in Buenos Aires.

And we know for a fact that the reason they praise Hezbollah is because they have announced their intention to kill as many Jews as possible. You know how we know this? Because this organization also worked with Assad to destroy Palestinian diaspora communities in places like Yarmouk, taunting starvation victims with pictures of food, killing, maiming and decimating infrastructure with impunity.

So nope! It is not about a Palestinian, otherwise you would support the Syrian Palestinian community as well. This is also how we know that the support for Hamas - another group recognized around the Western world as terrorists and religious extremists who spout the most absolutely out of pocket and genocidal rhetoric - has nothing to do with Palestinians and everything to do with their publicly stated intentions to murder as many Jews as possible and to destroy Israel.

If your response to any of this is "but but Israel Nazis" (while still somehow claiming that it isn't possible to be a reverse racist within the institutional structures of society, apparently it is possible to be a reverse-antisemite by calling Jews the name of a group of people whose existence is fundamentally rooted in antisemitism) without actually admitting that Hezbollah is the fucking bad guy, then congratulations, you are an antisemite and a moron.

People wearing they/them pins with BLM posters in the background praising Osama Bin Laden's Letter to America after 9/11 but only the parts about Jews, totally ignoring the parts that call AIDS a Satanic American invention and demand the wholesale slaughter of LGBT Americans. Its not about genocide, either. If it were, you wouldn't have these same people praising the Houthis, who did actually genocide 200,000 people.

It's not about ethnic cleansing or colonialism, either. Because if it were you wouldn't support those actions when they happen to Jews or when they are conducted by groups of people who also hate Jews. You're an antisemite. And you're not an extremist! You're right. Because being antisemitic is now by and large entirely normal.

At this point I am just pissed off that these people are pretending to be progressive and virtuous. Whilst calling us zios, a slur invented by Grand wizard of the KKK to replace Jew as an acceptable term, whilst cheering the IRGC who literally colonized and invaded Iran and oppress and kill Persians regularly. But that's OK, because they also hate Jews.

Who routinely fail to recognize other ethnic groups that exist in the Middle East other than Arabs, that there are religions and cultures that have nothing to do with Islam or Judaism or Christianity at all, and those people have been ground into the dirt. While utterly ignorant of the thousands of years of actual oppressive colonialism which is the entire reason why Palestinians even lived anywhere near Israel in the first place.

Al-Aqsa was built directly on top of our most sacred religious site and people cannot square this with their opinion that Arabs good Jews evil so they just literally will not even address it. I haven't had a single one of these antisemites address any of the points I've made. You could at least struggle through it, but you don't and then demand that we cede our entire historical, cultural and linguistic history to goyim who couldn't even name five Palestinians they personally know (scam bots on Tumblr don't count).

Just fucking admit that you hate Jews. Your hypocrisy is abhorrent. At least David Duke is honest about it, and when David Duke has the moral high ground, you fucked up HARD. And they're starting to become aware enough of it that they publicly are fine also supporting this guy, because "he's the only one saying it out loud," while expecting us to believe they give a shit about Palestinians lmao.

👏👏👏

from rachel.rants

[autiezo]

6, 12 and 28 for the ask game :D

heyyyy Riem! Thanks for the ask :D

I used to care a lot about my YouTube stuff but not anymore lol. Not caring has been super freeing.

The best parts about being online are the fantastic fanart on stuff I love, and the wide variety of amazing comedy.

The worst part is seeing people argue about stupid celebrity drama I don't care for. Urgh. I'd literally pay money to never hear anything about USA singers against my will. AJR is the only exception, I love AJR so much.

Also billionaires should shut the fuck up about money, and just donate to the poor, and stop fucking around with humanity. Every time I see news about a billionaire, my mood gets soured for at least 10 seconds.

hmmmmm...

a) All that positive talk like "Be yourself", "The power of friendship", "Forgiveness and Love are the answer.".... I find that many people don't relate to them, because they are hurt. They are tired. They have been burnt too many times before. I was one of those, kind of, a little. I only started believing in goodness, when I was further along in my own healing journey. I only learnt it after years of therapy and emotional support from loved ones, and there's no shame in that.

b) To get people to change their mind, shaming or accusing them of being the bad guy is... a very bad idea. It almost never works. You'll instead need to meet them half-way, and try to understand their point of view first. Then you can structure your side of the discussion, in a way they can understand.

For example, I was homophobic when I was a teenager, so more than a decade ago. To be fair, I didn't know any better and only heard about LGBT from the bible and misguided christians. When people told me to fuck off or insulted me about my views, they didn't really explain why. Even if they did, they would have already lost me, because they viewed me as an enemy. Teen Zo's response to that was to double down, see the 'haters' as enemies in return, and then follow more extreme Christian stuff.

The way I was very slowly convinced to be a LGBT ally, was by people sharing their personal stories about their sexuality. By education that gave me the benefit of the doubt. By LGBT friends who weren't afraid to be themselves.

Of course, there will be people who will never listen to your opinions, no matter what you do. In that case, telling them to fuck off is incredibly justified. I'm just saying that a "Two strikes and you're out" system is probably better than instantly insulting a jerk.

c) If you are a teacher, don't punish your student for simply speaking their mind or asking questions. They're exploring and learning more about the world everyday, of course, they'd test the waters. You should only correct them when they are being intentionally disrespectful or malicious. However, most children don't really do that. It's much more likely that they're trying to have fun, or that they are parroting a phrase they don't really understand.

Treat the youth like humans, like your equals. Their opinions are valuable even when they sound silly at first. They'd respect you more in the long term.

d) Do not befriend fake people or those who like to talk smack about others behind their back.

e) The NSFW / porn online community is weird as fuck, and the number of creeps and gold-diggers on there are much, much higher. If you venture there, it's best to be a lurker.

Yes, there are good people, but it's still a dangerous place...

f) If you wanna get started with voice-acting, you can the Audacity audio editing and recording software. It's free and very useful. All you need is that app, and either a cheap microphone or good headphones with a mic, plugged into your computer.

g) For voice acting again: If you are trying out a new voice, and if your throat feels scratchy after a few minutes, stop using it. No new voice is worth sacrificing your throat for.

besides disco elysium fanart? Nope lol. Does my decorating Livly Island game count? Probably not

[bitter-hibiscus]

As someone who is part of the generation Z of queer people, I see the statement “Neopronouns are harmful to the community” as a borderline cry for help. To me, it’s clear as day that it’s an attempt to cater to cishets’ wants for the LGBT+ community. A desperate need to “prove” to cishets that “hey, I’m human too! Look at me, I’m just like you! Not like those weird queer people out there!”

It’s more saddening than infuriating, at this point, because we’ve all been there. We’ve all been 12 years old watching the news about a teenage boy who got stoned to death for being gay and thinking this might be me. Not this could’ve been me, not oh poor him, but this will be me if I don’t act exactly how they want me to. And you internalize those feelings and those thoughts to a point where your only escapism is playing-pretend that cishets will ever see you as their equal. It’s a fake blanket of safety younger queer folk need to hide under to be able to process the world they live in.

As a result of those thoughts, gen Z has made it abundantly clear that they disregard any of the history of our community, of who we are. We as a whole barely research about stonewall or the aids crisis, much less things that are not such “mainstream” stories, because if we admit to being oppressed, we’re just looking at cishets in the eyes and saying “I’m never going to be like you.”, and it’s really hard to make ourselves understand that that’s a good thing. We’re not equal and we never will be because straight people didn’t have to riot to get human rights and they did not have a disproportionally high mortality rate due to unsafe sex.

So all I’m asking from the other queer gen Z out there is that you try to understand that not being straight is what makes our community a much-needed safe space, and catering to them will only ever damage us internally. Take the neopronouns and xenogenders and microlabeling with pride as big, long, thick middle finger and a loud ass fuck you to all straight people who have ever made you feel like you had to be something you weren’t. Celebrate our ability to express ourselves this way because far too many of us have died to make it possible to do so. Don’t disrespect your own identity so that the straights can digest your existence.

[witch-lock]

me: sees acquaintances from high school making career and education advancements, being certain of what they want to do and their “five year plan,” having kids, and generally pulling it together and being more Adult than I currently am

me: