#being 'anti targ'

[oflorelei]

I really wish the fandom would start to have more specific terms for certain theories because of how weird complicated the broad Interpretations can get. Maester conspiracy? In the Nature of that they hold significant Power, are usually present in every court, control the message system, influence politics directly and indirectly and in general are very secretive/secluded, maybe accumulating in different conspiracies over the years with similar goals (bringing the dragons down/the targaryens/to bring the dragons down you need to bring down the targs/to bring the targs down you need to bring down the dragons)? Yes, understandable, makes sense. The General dismissal of the maesters as a "bunch of nerds who do nothing" when they are very similar to Catholicism in medieval europe is crazy to me- they hold Power. They hold a lot power.

To deny that an organized faith, that is ancient, with a certified head similar in nature to the pope, yk the Guys that have been meddling in Politics for centuries even going so far to place their own relatives into royal marriages/very good political positions, is completely clean and doesnt care for politics (despite meddling in them OFTEN), and has no interest in maybe getting the powerful magical gifted/bonded family with dragons dethroned or at least weakened to a state of their 'magic connection' being useless (without dragons)- is just weird for me.

HOWEVER do I think they are sitting there in Grey cloaks, under candlelight chanting "KILL ALL TARGARYENS!!" and dancing naked under the nightsky while murdering them left and right and EVERY maester being involved?

No. And i think to assume so is even more weird.

I have the incredible privilege that my favorite House are not the Targaryens (which exclude some of my fav Characters of being targs btw, on that note DAYNE STAYS ON TOP), but I also dont violently hate them. So I like to think i'm at least a little objective on this-

I dislike people cloak-washing the maester to be good guys who hold no power or interest in politics when they are an organized faith in similar nature to the Catholic Faith in medieval europe. I also dislike people who try to twist this really into "ONE BIG THING THAT WAS VERY CAREFULLY ORGANIZED FOR CENTURIES AND PULLED OFF EVERY TARGARYEN DEATH!!", just as much (if not even more- since I did see people trying to use this theory as an excuse why targaryens rulers, or even princes and princesses behaved horrible and rancid ((e.g. saw someone the other day try to use this theory to excuse Aegon ii for being a "set up" horrible ruler and person so the there would be more discord against the targs in General- which could be an interesting thought, but not when you use it to excuse all of the bs he did))).

Theories are theories, they aren't set in stone, they are what comes from a multitude of related 'incidents' that happen too often to be ignored.

However they are a broad branch, people will interpret them different- that is a given. So I would just enjoy more specific terms or being down to open up theories more (e.g. grand maester conspiracies could also fall under grand maester conspiracy), and maybe just try to sort them under their nature.

But yeah just my thoughts on this lol.

[cursedshrines]

anti targ restoration because i don’t think dany, a girl who has never been to westeros, should sit on the iron throne. i just don’t think that’s how her story ends. i actually think it’s so tragic that viserys so deeply believed it was his to rule, but was never cut out for it. i think dany is the same way. she believes him, then gains the same mindset as him, because it’s what she has heard all her life. but i just cannot imagine a possible scenario where she becomes queen of the seven kingdoms. i’ve seen people say that it wouldn’t make sense for her as a character not to, because she is the antithesis of those who have come before her, and the women of house targaryen have suffered and she’s supposed to avenge them in some way by becoming queen. i don’t know where her story will end, but i don’t think she’ll become queen.

[ayrennaranaaldmeri]

Nettles's story matters because of her lack of privilege. Because of the place she comes from. Because her heritage is left up in the air. The valyrians were shepherds before they were dragonriders and there's an inherent power to this person who was a nobody taming a wild dragon in a way the valyrians first could have attempted when they discovered dragons. She tamed Sheepstealer the way anyone might try to tame a wild animal, feeding and building a bond with him gradually. It can never be given to another character and have the same effect, especially if said character is the highborn daughter of two powerful families. She was literally just a girl and she tamed Sheepstealer and that story loses all of its power when it's Daem on's trueborn daughter whose own dragon hatching for her was meaningful in its own way, imo.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

Why do you think the tides have slightly turned from "Elia deserves better than Rhaegar" to shipping her and Rhaegar together? Like what is the psychology behind these people because I've seen some of them like/reblog anti Rhaegar posts while also shipping Rhaegar x Elia at the same time.

hey anon! my thoughts are a bit messy, but i’ve done my best to explain them coherently :)

so, rhaegar was the best man anyone could have when elia was alive, and most people want the best for their favs. he was considered the most handsome, didn’t have a bad personality, and he was crown prince—meaning elia was almost queen, which is often seen as the greatest role a woman can have. the narrative also treats rhaegar as a beautiful, tragic, haunting figure, and elia actually had this very aesthetically pleasing man all to herself at one point! she was married to him, had children with him, and her life was so close to perfect! but rhaegar just had to go and ruin it. 😠

for many elia stans, if rhaegar hadn’t fallen in love with another woman (they want him to have been a completely different character), then everything would’ve been perfect, and elia would’ve had the best, most desirable life. however, that’s not what happened—elia met a very tragic end, and as a result, these stans feel double the bitterness. because of this bitterness, they blame rhaegar for everything (even though it’s not logical to do so), but he’s just too ‘perfect’ to let go of. so, for years these stans have made rhaegar revolve around elia, filling his tag with posts about her out of bitterness. so, i do believe that this obsession with rhaegar x elia has always been there, but i think it’s become a more favorable stance on the elia stan side of the fandom because of a mix of reasons.

plus, rhaegar is one of the few canon relationships we know elia had, since she’s not much of a character. because of this, and the fact that most people don’t like to stray too far from canon, most elia stans are forced to focus on rhaegar, which has created an echo chamber. basically, if a sentiment about elia and rhaegar’s relationship becomes popular, then the whole elia stan side of the fandom will likely regurgitate the sentiment. (also, this desire to stick close to canon is likely why the elia x arthur ship was so popular. while it’s a total crack ship, it had good aesthetics, and since elia and arthur at least knew each other, it allowed the stans to create their perfect fanfiction whilst sticking it to rhaegar. but remember, elia was actually married to rhaegar and had children with him, so while arthur is cool, rhaegar was always ‘top dog,’ meaning arthur would never be able to match up to rhaegar to most elia stans. also, the arthur x elia crack ship is likely her second most popular ship, which just shows how little elia stans have to work with, so they’re always forced to eventually return back to rhaegar for a lot of things.)

however, even if the elia x rhaegar ship gains more popularity, these stans will never stop hating rhaegar because he wasn’t ‘perfect’—and he wasn’t perfect because he didn’t love elia. plus, rhaegar loving another woman and supposedly kidnapping her is what began the war that led to elia’s tragic death. that’s bitterness times 1000. and while i don’t actually blame rhaegar for the war, i do think that this is how an elia stan sees it. i also don’t view rhaegar’s complex relationship with elia as a bad thing—it’s actually a very realistic take on an arranged marriage between two decent people. but most elia stans will never be able to get over the fact that they almost had everything, which is why many have it out for lyanna, as they consider her a thief who ruined their ‘perfection.’

tbh, that might be why so many elia stans are so obsessed with the idea that rhaegar only got with lyanna because of the prophecy—they don’t want to believe that rhaegar actually loved a different woman and not their perfect self insert elia. that’s a bit mean of me… but i don’t know what else one would call the ‘elia’ elia stans have created.

now that i’ve laid all those thoughts out, i’ll try to explain why the tides seem to be turning… i think it may have something to do with the ‘targaryens are all evil and bad’ sentiment losing popularity. i think this shift has occurred due to a mix of factors, such as years of fandom fights and fandom cycles leading to the targs being more liked now than before. it helps that canon doesn’t actually condemn the targs/favors them quite a bit, and the influx of new targ fans from HOTD has also contributed. this combination of reasons seems to have shifted the way the mainstream fandom discusses all the targaryen characters, including rhaegar. so, with this shift, it’s only natural that some elia stans/elia x rhaegar shippers—who’ve always been there—are using this opportunity to push their agenda. while these stans still hate rhaegar and see him as the bad guy, they just can’t let go of him. and as the mainstream fandom moves away from the anti targaryen sentiment, these smaller corners of the fandom, which tend to be echo chambers, are also affected, which has therefore led to a rise in rhaegar x elia shippers and the ‘shifting tide’ that you’ve also noticed.

[spirit-meets-the-b0ne]

The thing that Targaryen antis either don’t or can’t understand is that in spite of all the discussions, discourse and arguments (& moral conjecture): I simply love dragons and mentally ill women with great hair sorry if you can’t relate

[atopvisenyashill]

how many times do i have to see “you’re a slavery apologist for disliking dany” before someone actually gives a good answer to “so why is dany allowed to profit from slavery & keep slaves herself”

the answer is “i will be waiting until i am dead and buried.”

[melodymidway]

Jaehaerys: *chooses Baelon over Rhaenys despite the law saying that a niece inherits before an uncle*

Fandom: She was usurped! Rhaenys should have been queen!

Viserys: *chooses Rhaenyra over Aegon despite the law saying that a son inherits before a daughter*

Fandom: He has no right to the throne! Usurper!

[rise-my-angel]

Rhaegar looked a good potential ruler only in comparison to Aerys lmao. He would have been terrible, from an objective pov. I mean he managed to piss off THREE major houses at once. That is quite the achievement.

Like, he only looks good when you look at his father, grandfather and great grandfather. Aerys II was, well, I think there's little need for any elaboration on that. A man who enjoyed cruelty to the degree that when he begun to turn mentally unstable, the voices in his head had only made that cruelty turn up to the degree war was going to be inevitable one day no matter what.

Jaehaerys II was also not a good King and had a very short reign. He ruined the very carefully balanced status of Westeros created by his father in order to have an incestuous marriage with his sister. He did the most damage to the last reign of the Targaryeans by creating only ONE direct bloodline by marrying his sister and then ordering the marriage of his son and daughter together. His only good contribution in his short time as King was delegating the Ninepenny Kings War to the command of Ormund Baratheon, but he only did it because Ormund was the one who talked him down from fighting in the war himself, so it wasn't even his own idea.

Aegon V should have been remembered as a good King, but he failed his own family by creating circumstances which allowed Jaehaerys II the opportunity to both marry his sister and marry his own children together, thus dooming the bloodline of his own family. He also ruins his final memories with his actions at Summerhall. Summerhall is the one event which ruins Aegons ability to be remembered as a good ruler because his downfall was still his own obsession with his house's superiority with dragons.

In contrast to all that, sure, maybe Rhaegar wouldn't be the worst King but he wouldn't have been a good one. He too by Roberts Rebellion was delusional and obsessed with prophecy to the degree no one around him understood why he was doing the things he did. His actions led to a massive war that overthrew his own family and left three members of the Stark family dead which haunts over the narrative the entire main series.

Meaning if Rhaegar did not realize the ramifications of kidnapping the firstborn daughter of a major house who was betrothed to the firstborn son of another major house, all the while insulting another major house whom had married INTO his family via his own wife, meaning he was just an idiot. Or he knew the ramifications but was so obsessed with the prophecy he did not care, which means he was utterly delusional.

The whole point of the downfall of House Targaryean is that it was inevitable. In their own ways not even the best remembered Kings were good people. None of them really were because the Targaryeans are the wrong fit of people to live amongst Westeros, let alone rule it.

Rhaegar nor Viserys nor Daenerys would have been good rulers.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Ned Stark has never shown a sign that he hates the Targaryens (???) I don't know where some people get that from? i mean, just because you hate targaryens doesn't mean your fictional characters are also, and based on nothing

That's exactly it, people dislike Targaryens and want other characters to feel the same way to justify it. I've seen people call it a "plot hole" that Ned doesn't hate the Targs/Rhaegar, but at this point fandom's mental gymnastics don't surprise me. They either rewrite characters to align with their opinions or decide they're unreliable. It never occurs to them to change their opinions based on what the story is actually telling us.

[pixelshiftexe]

ngl I don't trust people on Team Black who say they wish Alicent was more like her book counterpart because it's more "empowering" for her to be the conniving, ruthless Queen Mother who schemed to put her son on the throne.

Like is that really why you prefer her in the book? Or do you just want her to be unabashedly awful because that makes it easier to hate her and make Rhaenyra look better in comparison.

[alicentsaegon]

After reading certain leaks. Genuinely afraid they will go down the route of making Daeron Alicent's bastard with Criston Cole which is why he's sent to Oldtown so he does not draw attention...

[synchodai]

To the writers of HotD: If you ask me, the point of the King who Knelt wasn't that Torrhen knew Aegon was the destined ruler Westeros needed like Jace is heavily implying. The point is that Torrhen Stark prioritized keeping his people alive over being King.

[francy-sketches]

I love how stannis girlies joking about him being a teenage girl or whatever gets people so pressed. They’ll be like “ummmm actually he’s a raging misogynist 🤨 not a teenage girl 🙄 you’re so weird for this” it’s really not that serious omg

[alicentsgf]

when people say "the green kids aren't true targaryens" and its clear they're refering to the fact their mother and father aren't related but like... as an insult. Surreal.

[uluthrek]

imagine interpreting the dornish neutrality during the dance as anything but „lmao they‘re grilling each other, get me some popcorn“

[rise-my-angel]

So it seems Rhaegar had intentions with naming his children, naming his firstborn son Aegon, and his daughter Rhaenys. Meaning he likely suspected or was hoping for a third child to be a daughter, and name them Visenya. So the three heads of his dragon are named after the original conquerors of the dynasty.

Meaning having his third be born a boy was already very likely a hindrance to his goal, and worst of all, that child was given the most opposite of a famous House or Valyrian name possible. He's out here chomping at the bit for a daughter to name them Visenya II Targaryean.

And he gets a son named fucking Jon Snow.