#bc what was the point of her having one??? she did nothing at all at any point.

[strwberri-milk]

can i request the boys thinking mc is cheating bc she’s been acting off and hanging with other people, then they confront her but learn later that it’s something else that’s been going on (like her wanting to keep a problem hidden from them) angsty or fluffy ending it’s up to you im just craving angst 😓

Zayne doesn't want to directly confront you. He's terrified that somehow, he'll mess everything up and that right now, not knowing is better than confirming his fear. He'll just continue observing you for a bit, trying to figure out if there's something that can definitively point towards you actually having an affair. Your behaviour is strange but he won't feel too concerned until you start actively pulling affection away from him. That's when he's going to really start panicking. He doesn't know what he's done or said to make you take such a drastic step in your relationship and this is absolutely going to devastate him.

He'll talk to you one evening after you come home late. He tries to open it up by telling you that if it's something he's said or done to you then he's sorry and he promises he'll do whatever it takes to fix things between the two of you. It's you, and it's always been you. He can't even fathom being with anybody that isn't you. He'll ramble a little for once, not really able to accurately use his words as he tries to express how much he loves you.

You realise very quickly where he's going with all of this, immediately shutting him down as you tell him that you aren't seeing somebody else. He listens with bated breath to try and comprehend everything you're telling him, praying that you aren't lying to him because if you were, it'd definitely break him.

You'd probably have to ruin the surprise if you wanted him to feel fully secure after this conversation, especially since you also were hanging off of people when you normally don't seem to. He might feel a little insecure about your relationship for a while before settling into the routine again with you, but as long as you're wholly honest with him it'll pass fairly quickly.

Xavier wants to follow you around but he also knows it'd piss you off if he did. He'll just start paying more attention to events when the two of you are together and even more attention to things if it seems you're purposefully not inviting him to something. He's trying to understand why and what for, not wanting to directly accuse you but his jealousy definitely ramps up.

You'd have to talk to him as he slowly starts to escalate, becoming more pissy if you have plans with friends or when he responds poorly to you taking calls in his presence. He doesn't really say too much but he does make it very clear just how displeased he is with the look on his face or the way he practically grabs you whenever you're doing things with him.

He gets a little rougher with you overall - not in a painful way, in a distracted, irritated way. He doesn't want to hurt you on purpose and typically you don't really respond to this difference in pressure because it's nothing crazy but you can tell that he's starting to really internalise everything that's happening around him. When you do talk to him he listens with a furrow in his brow, trying to figure out if you're telling him the truth, or this is some elaborate lie for you to throw him off your scent.

He believes you pretty quickly but he is also going to be really skeevy about letting you do things without him for a bit. He just wants to spend time with you after all and after all this emotional turmoil you owe him a few stress-free dates.

Rafayel is not pleased. He makes it clear the second he thinks something is wrong by being colder and less affectionate with you. He isn't wholly above following you and figuring out who you're hanging out with, trying to figure out if there really is a chance that you are trying to have an affair.

You'd get some emotional whiplash from how differently he's acting, how he's making it clear that you've wronged him somehow but he isn't going to talk to you about it. He's avoidant, waiting for you to admit the truth. He's also patient, which means you could be iced out for weeks if you decide not to talk to him about what's happening.

He might spoil the surprise for himself if he goes fully into surveillance after which he'd just tell you that he figured out what you were hiding from him. You'd be a little disappointed but also more concerned as to how he managed to figure it out without tipping you off. He won't tell you at all about how he got the information - just that he did.

If he decides not to stalk you a little you'd have to ask him why he's so mad at you. He'd tell you that he's just treating you the same way you've been treating him, and that as far as he's concerned, this is deserved. You'd have to tell him the truth and why you've been hiding all this information from him - after which he will brighten up significantly. He'll say something about how he's never doubted you, yadda yadda yadda but he's definitely more clingy now than before from his nerves finally starting to settle.

Sylus doesn't want to monitor you either and decides to give you the benefit of the doubt. He's fairly secure in your relationship and knows that he hasn't done anything to make you want to cheat but he does feel himself faltering if you're becoming prone to laughing at your phone or trying to hide it from him. He won't ask for it but you can see that he's starting to get suspicious.

He would leave it alone until you reveal to him your surprise. By then he's still feeling fairly anxious but when you reveal that your behaviour was all just a result of you trying to plan something for him then he'll relax a little, thanking you for the effort you went through. You can tell that he's very glad that you've finally come clean when he holds your hand tightly, practically clinging to you as he thanks you.

He'll plan some more elaborate dates for you after the reveal, making it clear that he's missed your attention being solely on him. You don't really mind though since he's basically throwing money at you, spoiling you silly and reminding you just how much he's willing to do for you.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Does anyone actually say that Ladybug and Adrien are fake somehow?

Yeah, people absolutely have that take. It's what spawned the original post. One too many fics and shipping poles that treated Marinette and Chat Noir as somehow wrong for their crushes. (I apparently read fast. My ML fic's read count is in the thousands at this point. It's enough to let me notice trends that bug me whereas one fic would just be a shrug and move on thing.) On the Adreinette side you get, "Chat Noir is the true Adrien! Civilian Adrien is just a mask! Marinette only loves the fake Adrien so she doesn't deserve him!"

Chat Noir gets less flak, but I've seen it enough to know it's very much a thing. There's a reason Marichat wins out over Ladynoir in almost every poll. If you ever see one, read the comments for the logic and you'll see what I mean. People with this view seem to think things like, "Chat Noir doesn't really love Marinette because Ladybug isn't stuttery and awkward around him! He has to love her when she's a mess!"

This kind of thing is so popular that I had to stop reading fics that paired Marinette with other people because the "Marinette is the true version" thing showed up all the freaking time. So many of these fics felt less like shipping stories and more like Adrien bashing where he was punished for liking Ladybug and not Marinette. It was draining. Even my favorite one has a scene to make sure Adrien feels bad for missing what he could have had and it's a freaking no powers AU!

I actually had a really lovely conversation about this topic when the blog was young because this is one that gets under my skin whenever I come across it and I occasionally need to vent a bit. The kind person who indulged my annoyance straight up said that they used to think that the square "have to fall in love as Marichat bc that's when they can be real with each other." Which was not a stance that was unique to them by any means. They were just validating my first-hand observations of the way SOME people view the ship/characters.

There is a version of the true selves stuff that's genuinely sweet though. It's the version you basically summed up where it's less about these two being the "true" versions and more about Marichat letting the two get to know each other without the pressure of the crushes complicating things. After all, the canon square is only a few hours removed from love at first sight which certainly adds pressure that Marichat removes. The existence of this version that means I don't hate Marichat or even the words "true self", I'm just warry when I see them as I never know what I'm about to see.

While I get why canon's near insta love and subsequent writing issues would draw a person to Marichat, I'll also once again argue that the issue at hand isn't the various ship dynamics, it's canon's writing as the awkward Marichat arc shows. Even though the crushes only flipped after four whole season, canon Marichat doesn't feel any deeper than canon Adrienette or canon Ladynoir. It's played incredibly superficial and doesn't even bother to acknowledge that Chat Noir and Marinette have a functional friendship as established in episodes like Evillustrator, Glaciator, and Glaciator 2. Elation writes Marichat as if they've never interacted before and Chat Noir is just going on a date with a fan he's never officially met. Passion writes Ladynoir as awkwardly as Adrienette always was. Ladybug's months of platonic partnership did nothing to change how she acts when she has a crush or how successful she is at confessing.

In a better show, canon's Marichat arc would be used to set up Adrienette as a more solid couple. Marichat would allow Adrien to see that Marinette loves him even when he's being goofy, but they'd agree to not date because a hero and a civilian dating is too risky. Then Adrienette would happen and, oh look, Adrien can occasionally crack jokes and be silly because he knows Marinette can love him even when he's at his most Chat Noir in addition to being his most Adrien. Marinette is a little surprised, but fine with it. Canon doesn't go there though. As far as the show is concerned, Marichat essentially never happened. It was a one-off fever dream both characters completely forgot. Canon Adrienette has Adrien playing the perfect flawless boyfriend who never annoys Marinette with his jokes.

In summary, that post wasn't about saying that Marichat is bad or unhealthy or that there's no version of the true selves thing that's cute. It was me venting a bit after seeing one too many instances of people acting like Ladrien, Ladynoir, and Adrienette could never be healthy because friends to lovers is some sort of golden standard when it's absolutely not. It's a neutral preference. Each side is fine. What matters is how you write it.

Why the "True Selves" Theory is Insulting

Image for a second that you have a friend who's a bit of a ditz. She's also fun, creative, and sweet. You enjoy being around her, but you've never seen her as more than a friend. Then, one day, a fire breaks out at an event that you and your friend are attending. Your lives are suddenly in mortal peril and the same goes for everyone around you because you can't find the exit. You think that you're going to die.

Then, suddenly, your friend transforms. Not in a magical way, it's just a personality shift, but it might as well be magical because it's like nothing you've ever seen! The ditziness is gone, replaced by laser focus and a take-charge attitude that has everyone following your friend without question. When all is said and done, everyone lives because of you friend. As it turns out, her tendency to get easily distracted means that she's a fantastic in-the-moment problem solver.

Going through that completely changes how you see this girl. You no longer just like her, no, you're now deeply in love with her. You tell a mutual friend about this and they laugh at you, then say, "Don't be silly, that wasn't really her! Her true self isn't that brave girl who saved your life! That was special circumstances that don't count. All that counts is the way she acts when there isn't a crisis going on. It doesn't matter that you've always liked her and enjoyed her company, if you didn't fall in love with based solely on her ditzy self, then you don't really love her."

Most people would call this mutual friend insane because of course going through crazy experiences changes the way we view people! Imagine if you had an allergic reaction and your significant other's reaction was to panic and run away, leaving you to die. You only live because you manage to grab your phone and call '911.' That would understandably lead many people to reassess if this is the person they want to spend their life with just like the opposite experience might make you see a person as a good life partner.

Marinette is Ladybug. She gets full credit for everything she's done in the suit and it's perfectly fine for Adrien to become attracted to her after he sees her in action. It doesn't mean that he only values her Ladybug side. He quite clearly cares for Marinette, he just hasn't seen her in the right light for him to fall in love. (And, if we're being frank, Marinette acts like Ladybug all the time when he's not around or when he is around, but a crisis is going on. She's really not that different from her alter ego.)

Along similar lines, Marinette isn't wrong for being drawn to Adrien's sweeter side more than his over-the-top jokey side. There's a reason why Glaciator ended with her blushing. Compare the end of Glaciator to the end of Origins and, yeah, same energy because - in that moment - Chat Noir was letting his Adrien side out by being more sincere and vulnerable, which are the things that Marinette values most in a romance and the things that he rarely shows while in the mask. It doesn't mean that she hates his jokey side, it's just not going to win her heart when Adrien's right there being sweet and sincere while Chat Noir hides his feelings behind a smile and a laugh.

In fact, it's pretty insulting to Adrien to say that someone shouldn't be attracted to his more vulnerable side. That his sincerity is worth less than his jokes. Almost as insulting as telling Marinette that her Ladybug side doesn't count and she should get no credit for being brave as that's not really her. Loving her only counts if a person falls in love while she's behaving in her most over-the-top, cringe, embarrassing way.

I don't know about you, but I would never want someone to hold me to that standard nor would I hold my significant other to that standard! It's perfectly normal to have things that you don't love about your significant other. In fact, I'd argue that part of the magic of a real, lasting romance is having someone who loves you even though you're not perfect. If you are looking for a partner who never annoys you or does something wrong, then you will never find happiness because that person does not exist.

Now that I've said all of that, I want to add that I do think that marichat, "love both sides" stories can be cute. It's just not One True Path to Real Love. It's totally fine if the square starts dating based on the things that they find attractive about each other and then just continue to be in love as they learn about the other side. If anything, that's normal. Learning about a person is what dating is all about! A good relationship is no different than a good friendship, you just get some bonus perks if you're into that kind of thing.

I'll also note that I'm not criticizing stories where Marinette feels like she's the "real" version and Ladybug is the fake because that's a really understandable thing to be nervous about. Tikki saying that shit? Hard no. Terrible mentoring.

[diminuel]

Ok so about a year ago the girls' gc exploded bc bestie #1's ex came up on her ig explore n he has a kid WHO, FOR REASONS ONLY KNOWN TO THE UNIVERSE, has been in #1's pre-k for a whole semester (she's a kindergarten teacher - same campus different block) and she never knew until she stalked the ex's ig. Then bestie #2 was like "ah. bad time to say I've known for a while but didn't think. It was. Relevant?" And then bestie #1 was all "WHY? NO. HOW DID YOU KNOW?" and bestie #2 goes all "(guy) was in all my uni classes and he was pretty chill so we're still friends on FB and we compare groceries prices sometimes"

It was a FUN day for the gc that day lemme tell you that.

Anyway getting to the point - saw the Sakazuki - Dragon shenanigan you started and thought lol what if Borsalino was bestie #2 and Sakazuki was bestie #1 losing his goddamn mind because that CANNOT be THEEE spawn of a Monkey D. That CANNOT be THEEEE spawn of THEEEE Monkey D Dragon on that bounty poster. And Borsalino ✨️ just goes ✨️ oooh he takes after his father~ ✨️

"YOU KNEW?!"

"✨️ you didn't? ✨️ "

X'DDD Tormenting Sakazuki hours!

But how did Borsalino know?? X'D Is he in a group chat with Vegapunk, Dragon and Kuma or something? *lol* Also, does Borsalino know who Luffy's other parent is? How??

(At first I thought you were talking about the AU where Dragon's other OC kid Grumpy (who looks just like Dragon) joined the Marines. Sakazuki somehow had absolutely no clue even though he must have seen the kid around because surely Garp would make sure his one grandkid who actually listened to him went straight to HQ for training. "Kid looks familiar. I want to strangle him for some reason. Must be nothing..." Idiot man.)

[makotonaegiunderstander]

something I’ve been thinking abt is how many people think Makoto is immune to despair. I don’t think he is. I think becoming the ultimate Hope was BECAUSE he felt despair. He wouldn’t have fully reached that point without Junko. Makoto becoming such a beacon was his last attempt to avoid completely falling and it wasn’t because he didn’t feel despair, it was because he was too damn stubborn to allow everything to go to waste and he refused to sacrifice his beliefs for someone else’s. His inner monologue tells me he DID experience the same new low the other suvivors did in the final trial, but at the point where he had the choice to give up and die, he looked at the others and he looked at Junko and he couldn’t allow it to happen, not out of self preservation, but because the idea that Junko would have control over their lives made him FURIOUS. and that utter refusal to die kicked in, wether luck or otherwise, and he made the concious effort for one last push while something in him was breaking. He had to be broken in order for the Ultimate Hope to come through so aggressively, bc it could only exist in the face of the Ultimate Despair. He snapped the same way she did, but in the other direction. In what could have been his final moments he chose to embody everything Junko wasn’t, and every single optimistic and luck fueled ideal in him suddenly charged forward and pushed him. It was a combination of the final straw and a choice. Makoto isn’t immune to feeling despair, he’s just too stubborn to fall into it of his own volition. I think that’s why I like that scene in DR3 so much. People were SO SHOCKED Makoto actually fell for the tape, that he actually became despair for a moment. I saw people getting mad or disappointed, saying it was pathetic and Makoto seemed to fall from some sort of pedestal for them. Honestly part of me wonders if that sort of mentality, which clearly people had in universe, affected Makoto a bit. Like he started to see himself as less of a person, subconsciously. Prompting him to take more risks, less self preservation, act way more bold. It seems he has to be reminded a lot not to put himself in danger by his friends, to not do something too reckless. All over the place I would see in regards to that scene either this frivolous ‘oh this was just angst drama with no meaning behind it’ or ‘he can do better than that. he’s so weak’ or ‘come on, there’s no way he’d fall into despair, he’s the Ultimate Hope!’ This kind of mentality, which was kind of ironic considering Ryota was there the entire time saying the same thing and treating Makoto the same way. Like Makoto was superhuman. Like Makoto didn’t feel despair the same way ‘normal people’ did. In a way that was also how Munakata saw Makoto. Makoto stopped being a PERSON to the world when he became Ultimate Hope, he became a concept, a belief system, much the same way Junko ascended beyond herself. But the difference is that treating Makoto that way is the opposite of the reason Makoto became such a representative for hope. He wasn’t doing something no one else could. He was doing something everyone had the chance to, he just… was a little more optimistic, a little more stubborn, a little more ‘gung-ho’ about things. He just took the lead where no one else did, where no one else knew they even COULD in the face of Junko’s unstoppable force. She had overcome the biggest threats and obstacles in the world, what could one person do? And the answer Makoto found was, anything. Everything. It doesn’t all rest on Makoto, he’s just the one that was inspired to try to do what seemed like the impossible. But as evidenced by the change in his friends after that trial, it’s clearly not something only Makoto is capable of. The others pulled out of despair thanks to Makoto, but it was their choice to do so.

“But… this world is so huge, and we’re so small. What can we do…? No, we can probably do anything. Yeah! We can do anything!”

[waywardsalt]

bc its been bouncing around in my head i think another little tiny grievance i had with totk is that i got to the end and just felt a sense of ‘well what the hell was that all for then’

[tankgotstuckinthecircusgate]

i know that when carlo suddenly decided that he needs to marry guy made a whole list in his head n like had a deadlines n shit. like it was some kind of a task he needed to do

[anotherpapercut]

working with children really will make you examine your thought processes and emotional reactions like nothing else. I've found myself being so much more thoughtful in my daily life about how I respond to my emotions and environment, as well as the reasoning behind why others behave the way they do

[abnormalpsychology]

thrilling sequel to my poll from back in January

[moe-broey]

HONESTLY I think (one of) the reason(s) I am so insane over Alfonse IS because he's able to come off as extremely normal and well adjusted. Like yeah when you first meet him you see he has some emotional issues but he just went through a breakup with his best friend we've all been there. And this is like his first ever breakup too that's never easy for anyone. Other than that though just a small disruption I'm sure he's very normal and put together. Just don't look any closer. Please.

[sigmundthesorcerer]

M would be obsessed with the fact that vault-tec dropped the bombs bc she's a paranoid freak who's been running off a conspiracy theory that america nuked itself as a population control tactic and the rest of the world is doing fine

but the point is that she's supposed to be wrong!!!!!

[radiaking]

We all….agree that Lucy would be like. The player character right? Coop and Maximus are both romanceable companions right? Coop at the end of s1 is just a quest giver right?!

[swordmaid]

am getting a lot of character inspo for shri’iia from amy gone girl. I don’t think she’s as smart nor calculated but she is similar to some degree in that she’s hyper aware of the current persona she’s presenting and how she’s appealing to the people. the masks and the mjndgames, that’s basically how shri’iia operated while she was still serving under her matriarch in menzoberranzan. she needed to play the roles the matriarch required of her and it was only when she was with her matriarch that she can be ‘Real Shri’iia’, and that’s how I imagined shri’iia to be esp in act 1 when she is so new and scared in the surface. she needed to work out who these people are (her companions) and what they liked, so her first persona - her blank one - the charming helpful paladin who got tadpoled and wants to go back home just like the rest of them (which was half true). she didn’t really argue and she generally agreed to what the group wanted. she was helpful and co-operative, ask her about her past and she will tell you something bland and generic- interesting enough to be ooh-ing about but not too interesting that they’ll delve deeper into it. then, when she got to know them a little more, she started crafting little personas adjacent to her first one ; she’s the girl who’s curious about magic but never had the chance to learn with gale, she’s a cool girl who likes mischief as debauchery with astarion, she’s the one who likes to take risks and live in the moment with karlach, the knight in silver armor who’s willing to help the tieflings with wyll, a disciplined fighter with lae’zel, someone who understands the depths of devotion with shadowheart - but none are really her, not really. ofc her own personality might slip in here and there but for the most part she’s appealing to them and what they’d like her to be but none of it is really genuine. shri’iia just needs to be on their good side to minimise the chances of them turning on her, and if they let her guard down it’ll be easier for her to get rid of them should the need arise. taking up all these different masks, collecting all these intel abt them to be used for later, slithering and making a place in their minds - it’s really how she operated back in menzoberranzan. I think the only one who catches on to her game is astarion but that’s bc he’s doing the same thing too, so it’s very game recognises game lmfao

it’s only when she breaks her oath and goes through her existential crisis that all of her masks drop and her real self comes out. she was never that kind of person lmfao ^, she’s greedy, selfish, paranoid and rather obsessive. she doesn’t care about a lot of things that doesn’t concern her, she has a cruel streak that she hasn’t shown before, and she hates doing anything that won’t really benefit her. but she’s fiercely loyal to anyone she likes, like a dog. and severely she craves validation and approval - also like a dog.

[awek-s]

sorry but the way a single interaction w my mom ruined any kind of progress I made this week is insane

[dmclemblems]

A couple things confuse me about the "Edelgard was never the Flame Emperor in Hopes so that's why people are acting differently with her" thing people try to say to explain GW and SB.

1) 3H almost never makes it a narrative focus that Edelgard was the Flame Emperor, just that the Flame Emperor as a separate entity was bad. Barring Dimitri, barely anyone says "hey wow, Edelgard sure is a giant fucking asshole since we know she's the Flame Emperor" - they're more like "wow, can't believe she smeckledorfed us like that, not based and kinda cringe." So many people go "I don't wanna fight her tho, I regret having to fight her :/" as though the fact that she clearly never gave a shit about any of them, proven by her lying about being the Flame Emperor for damn near a year, doesn't mean anything to them. She's still their beloved classmate, no matter what she does to a lot of them, so I don't see why it's only now that they'd suddenly give THIS much of a shit about something they never put focus on before. And to the extent that they'd 180 on their characters just to be chill with her.

2) What actual, substantial difference is there between "I am willing to torture my citizens by turning them into Demonic Beasts," and "I will torture my citizens by slowly starving them through my war that is draining away the country's food supplies"? She is still needlessly and cruelly making her people go through suffering, just because it isn't as loud as Aegir mindlessly pillaging shit doesn't mean she isn't still responsible for mass suffering and death of her own citizens. And this isn't even getting into the rest of Fodlan either, who she is similarly ruining/ending the lives of in similarly cruel, torturous ways. But it's not specifically Demonic Beasts or specifically with TWS, so suddenly she's fine? It's morally acceptable for certain characters to join her for no reason other than her (lying) words? Hell, being a pragmatic, amoral asshole for a second - at least a weapon's being made with the Demonic Beasts method of slow and cruel death, the starving citizens do no good for anyone!

I dunno, just seems like a pretty thin straw to reach for to explain why certain characters (WINK WINK) act so wildly OOC :/

Preface after writing: I'm sorry, this is stupid long and two months late. I hope it being stupid long makes up for the wait. :D... :'D...

Yeah, the Flame Emperor portion of her character has nothing to do with Hopes. Between both games, Dimitri treats her completely differently because she didn't do the same things and he has a very direct attachment to her and TWS both, but other characters don't just like her more because she wasn't the Flame Emperor.

For example, Dimitri never spirals into the mess he became in Houses because Edelgard never hid her identity, and the Flame Emperor was very openly allied with TWS. Edelgard in Hopes broke off her ties with them as soon as the game really begins, i.e. post the prologue (in all routes, but you only see it actually be discussed in her route).

I do agree it's a flaw in the writing that they kind of switch on the whole "the Flame Emperor is a bad person" to deciding they don't agree with that anymore once they know who it is. What she did doesn't change just because she was "someone else" at the time, the same way Dimitri's actions don't change just because he was "someone else" for those five years. Difference being, there are actually allied characters who hold Dimitri accountable for it, and Dimitri holds himself accountable too. Just another instance of the writing making women wound like saints because they gotta sell their merch. I'm saying that as a woman, mind you, and it's frutsrating that gender dictactes how a story gets written. Gender also doesn't define someone's personality and who they are, so it shouldn't make a story geared around uwu waifu not bad, we don't wanna fight her.

The thing is, this is one of the problems people have with the narrative of Houses is not committing. It's true that Edelgard didn't care about a lot of people because she explicitly didn't let herself care, because she went into the year fully expecting and being aware of her inevitable "betrayal" (which I quote because she didn't really intend to be friends with them to begin with, so in her view it's probably not really a betrayal. It would be to them, but not so much to her).

It's also true that she decides to "care" about people who side with her simply for siding with her. Unfortunately the writing can't commit to kepeing her consistent as a character because they don't want her to be the villain because it's harder to market villains. That is, in part, why TWS exists, because they're meant to be the 'true villains".

Basically, TWS exists to make Edelgard look better as a person. Since they made her look pretty and cute, they didn't want to commit to making her a more villainous person, despite openly saying in an interview that they made her the villain. If she were a man, they would have made her more of a villain.

Regarding Houses and her evils:

The characters are sad about classmates being their enemies, but they set aside all the bad things as soon as they know the ringleader is a woman. Remember how they all considered her a horrible villain who had to be taken down when they knew her as the Flame Emperor? They thought the Flame Emperor was a man. As soon as it turns out that, that very same person was a woman they uwu went to school with, they don't think he's such a horrible villain who needs to be taken down anymore.

The point of the first half of Houses is that you're involved in all these happy academy days (as far as their relationships go, less so about the missions and stuff). They all trust each other and see each other as people they will one day have to work alongside. Suddenly they find out a pair among the students were plotting against them and weren't really ever on their side. The people they met in school were, in some ways, "fake". They weren't their true selves because they were in enemy territory the whole time (even if they were safe there, but in their minds these were enemies).

Like, personally, would I feel bad when I found out these people were lying to me the whole time and planned to kill me one day if I didn't agree with them? lol no. The characters went from thinking her actions were horrific to "well let's hear her out because she's actually our friend, even though for being our 'friend' we actually know nothing about her and our 'friend' lied to us the whole time".

Regarding Hopes and her supposed lack of evils:

In Hopes, even though none of that is there, it's still true she lied to them and was their enemy. It's still true she started a war and did all the same things from there, and in fact, some of it she actually had to do herself because she broke off with TWS. This includes trying to invade the Kingdom, which Cornelia was the one to do and succeed in doing in Houses. However, Edelgard herself, and the might of the Empire, is canonically not enough to subdue the Kingdom in Hopes. This does mean, however, that she had to do the deeds herself and cou;pdn't hide behind anyone else.

Breaking it down for why she seems less evil in Hopes though, we have SB. Technically both the Empire and Alliance took on the Kingdom, meaning that the Empire alone couldn't handle it. Reminder that, Dimitri, Dedue and Felix all survive SB, so the Empire can't take down three of the strongest fighters in the Kingdom (so less people die, because in SB she's not allied with TWS and does nothave the strength given to her by them, such as the beasts). Ingrid went out specifically to die because she planned to fight as long as possible so Dimitri could get away, meaning she never intended to survive that battle. Sylvain went out in a fit of rage seeking revenge for Ingrid, so his head wasn't on straight and he wasn't fighting with his brain, but his emotions.

Could they have taken these people down otherwise? Sylvain, no. He's too smart. If he wasn't so angry he would have backed off as soon as he realized he was overmatched in that battle. He wouldn't have died there because Dimitri wasn't there to die for, and neither was Felix. Also, he's not nearly as suicidal in this game. If he wasn't seeking revenge, he wouldn't have died, plain and simple. Could they have beaten Ingrid normally? No, because similarly, she would've retreated if she didn't go into the battle planning to fight until she died. She would've left to continue protecting her friends, home and king.

What this means is that she looks less bad because less people died, meaning her war killed less named and beloved characters. The difference though is that it doesn't make her less evil - it just means that alone, her might isn't capable of taking these people down. She needs to be allied with another army to win her war, which is why she took with TWS in the first place in Houses. Since they wanted her to look better in Hopes, she ditched them... but that means she still needs allies for her war. She knows she can't take down the Kingdom alone and they're allied with the Church, and she knows she can't take down Rhea because Rhea is a dragon.

Then there's GW, which just makes Edelgard look FUNNY. It's Claude who has to invade the Kingdom, because she can't break through the west front. Even after Claude fights in Fhirdiad, she still can't take down the west front. This means that, not only did the Empire have people do their bidding for what they weren't strong enough to do, but they had to take any other matters into their own hands for what TWS wouldn't help with in this story. It means Edelgard had to dirty her hands because they weren't there to do it, and she just wasn't strong enough to win her own war.

Remember, in SB, she doesn't win her own war. Her enemies kill each other, and the Kingdom is weakened because she allied with another army to fight them because she doesn't have the strength to do it herself. She looks less evil in Hopes because, being totally frank and not even saying this out of a hatred for her, she's weak. She's too weak to actually win and conquer, and she looks worse if she wins and takes control of all the lands she stomped on to win. When she loses, she looks better because she's not the tyrannical leader of all of Fodlan. In Hopes, no matter what route you're on, Edelgard does not win the war and does not achieve anything with her own army's strength. In CF, she does win because her allies are TWS for the entire game and they're only defeated post game because the game's duration is her war, which she needed them for the entirety of to actually win.

In GW, she doesn't win the war. She doesn't defeat Rhea, instead leaving that to Claude, who had Shez in his army (and was probably the only one with the actual power to rival Rhea's, for obvious reasons).

This also is why the kingdom survives and is never taken over. In Houses, it was never Edelgard's strength that conquered it. However, it does mean every single thing that happened in the war was on her head, because there was no TWS to take the fall for her the bad things that happened.

How it looks on her character:

So, looking at it from both ways, to sum it up... why are they so upset that they have to fight their classmate, who lied to them and was faking around them? Why are they upset about fighting her when she's been doing all this stuff in the war by her own desires and orders? There's no getting mad at TWS for what she does.

The Empire when pitted against the Kingdom can't win without allies, and Edelgard presumbly knew that in Houses and had allies - TWS. In Hopes, she gets Claude on her side because she can't do, well, jack shit to the Kingdom without him. Without something unexpected in the mix (the Alliance in Hopes, TWS in Houses), the Kingdom's strength is enough to defend.

Since TWS are her enemies in this story, she never actually wins. She doesn't lose, but she doesn't win. The only reason she doesn't lose is because she allied with another army (who she was canonically losing to in both routes anyway).

So basically, how do the writers make up for Edelgard not teaming up with TWS here? They have her use the Alliance instead, making her look better for not siding with TWS. To make her look even better, they have TWS do horrific things as a third party to it all, independently fucking around and making Edelgard have to go stop them. It makes TWS look like the worst of all scum, and it props up the "less evil" villains.

In GW, Claude does shady shit because ??? and that also makes Edelgard look better because she's very up front and doesn't do tactics the way he does. She's very forthright and if she didn't want to ally with the Alliance, she would have said as much and not have teamed up with them to stab them in the back later. Instead, that's given to Claude because, well, let's face it, it makes him look worse than her. She also gets no flak for killing Rhea in this game because she can't, because she doesn't have the power TWS gave her. She fights Rhea, certainly, even with Shez's power... but it's not enough. Rhea survives everything you do and only dies against Thales.

So basically, Edelgard is just weak and incapable of winning in this game, and it makes her look better and nicer, since she doesn't have the ability to use Demonic Beasts. The characters feel like upset because she did "less evil" things and killed fewer people (again, because she's not capable of doing so).

And again, I'm not even saying that out of hate. Edelgard admits they needed TWS in CF if they were going to win the war. Consequently, she doesn't win the war in any route in Hopes because she splits off from them in all routes.

No, it doesn't make her a better person or more worthy of people's pity, but they used Claude as a means of having someone else do worse things than her to make the characters doubt Claude while believing wholly in Edelgard for being so forthright. Since TWS is worse than Claude, it makes a tier of "bad", and she's at the very bottom of it. Thus, the characters see her in a better light and don't want to kill her.

Other stuff:

In AG it's actually kinda interesting, because even though the Empire has fallen because of Thales, literally nobody pities Edelgard for the situation she ended up in. Nobody feels bad about it and nobody thinks man, we should save Edelgard, she isn't the one who made the Empire fall into ruin like this. They still understand she's the one who started this war and enabled enough of a situation for TWS to take advantage of it. She gave them the opening instead of fighting them in the first place.

Even if you went along with her strategy of siding with the Church to take out TWS, but then she betrays the Church and starts her war against them because she also sees them as her enemy, that would have been the most reasonable strategy. Side with the Church, take out the strongest enemy first so they can't run around wreaking havoc while you ignore them to fight your war, then deal with the Church after when they won't have distractions and a potential other enemy creeping up on them.

Point being, it was stupid to start a war against the Church after simply driving out Thales from the capital. She should've waited to start the war until they'd taken out TWS completely. Why didn't they do this? Because they needed TWS in the story to make her look like a better person. Removing them too soon would mean she can't go back and stop their destruction. She can't seem like the better person because there's nobody worse than her. By making her strategy, well, let's face it, incredibly stupid to the point even Hubert told her outright not to do it/that he didn't agree with it, it made her look, well, honestly, dumb... but a better person in the long run.

Like I said, in AG it's done in a more interesting way because her situation doesn't get pitied by anyone. The people loyal to her are still loyal to her, but that's about it. None of her enemies feel sorry for her. None of them see that her war brought about something bad on her (i.e. being controlled by Thales) and went awww poor thing. She reaps what she sows and faces the consequeces of both starting a war and not being smart about it (i.e. dealing with TWS altogether at the start or remaining allied with them until the war was over like in CF). The characters in AG see it for it was, and Edelgard had to have known that there would be potential consequences of doing what she did.

Even at the very end, Dimitri doesn't pity her when she her mentality reverts to a child's. He doesn't feel it necessary to stain his hands with her blood at that point because the war is over. If she was still a threat they would defeat her but she wasn't, and she also didn't have any memory of starting the war, so killing her would be for nothing but personal gain, which at that point Dimitri didn't have. If anything, it might have staved off even more more because the emperor would be returned home safely, and possibly even by Dimitri (because I can't imagine the Church would do it after she declared explicitly on them, and I doubt Claude would even care to do it because he has no history with her like Dimitri does) or someone he trusts.

The Empire would need to focus on dealing with what happened to her, and they wouldn't be in a position to keep fighting or even need to since the person who wanted the war doesn't even have the memories leading up to why the war was started. All they could really do at that point was take care of her and decide what to do about leadership (and in this moment, we're going to prefend Ferdinand wasn't killed offscreen. They didn't say he was, so he wasn't! Got it? Yeah? Great!).

This last part doesn't really have much to do with your ask, but I wanted to add it in as a contrast to the way SB/GW were written and how they did make her seem like a better person than Claude. They made it seem like she was less bad for doing whats he did with her own hands this time because there was no TWS to do it for her. AG flips that on its head and says no, we don't care that she ended up in a bad situation because she brought it on herself. They said no, we're not going to pity her just because someone worse than her came along because she still did what she did.

Imo AG was just a much more refreshing and realistic take. They didn't look at her and see uwu classmate. They looked at her and saw the woman who started a war and knew what she was doing. Just because she lost in her own war and just because someone got the jump on her didn't make her worth pitying.

Instead, we get a wholly satisfying conclusion to the Duscur story, whcih was completely dropped in AM and probably because they ran out of chapters. We can bring a literal army of victims from that tragedy with us and have them be able to face the person who caused all of it. Since Duscur was also allied with Faerghus for a long while at this point, it wraps up that storyline in a nice, neat bow. The only thing left is to assume that things with Duscur went well and that Claude determined starting a new war over the Church just wasn't worth it.

Claude post AG (in contrast to him in the other routes):

Yes, I think Claude considered taking advantage of an existing war to fight the Church and might have done so in Hopes if Edelgard wasn't out of commission, because if she wasn't the war would continue. However, the war was over right then and there and more fighting on his part would just be a really stupid move that would turn everyone around him against him.

The war ended, the person who started it lost, and the third party was defeated. People would not want to fight another war just because Claude doesn't understand Fodlan at all in this game. Quite ironic that Edeglgard's rhetoric to him in VW about not knowing enough about Fodlan to lead it was completely true in this game... or maybe they did that on purpose to make her look better! Again! :D :'D

So yeah, Claude didn't start another war after AG ended. I say that, of course, assuming AG Claude has a brain and knows how to use it. Also, I don't think he would want to make enemies of the Kingdom at that point. If his goal remained to bring people together, he had already succeeded in getting every territory on the same page by allying with the sides opposing Edelgard in the first place.

The only people left are the Empire's people, who weren't in a position to fight and would probably just agree to an allying sort of truce so that all of Fodlan was on the same page. Even without Hubert or Ferdinand, they have Waldemar, and he's smart enough imo to make the right moves there. Claude has no reason to start a new war/renew an existing war that just ended when now that there's no war to just jump into to use as an excuse for something, he can just use words and his presumably route working brain to figure out how to work with the Church. Like, you know, he does in VW.

[thecherrygod]

I need to find a way to make my words actually mean what I say

[grace4867]

My mom always does shit like this istg