#batgirl 2000 the comic of all time truly

[vechter]

a guide on being cassandra cain

batgirl (2000) #6 // so i locked myself inside a star for twenty years, jeremy rodin // batman: gotham knights (2000) #2 // quote by @ojibwa (x) // batgirl (2000) #25 // what my bones know: a memoir of healing from complex trauma, stephanie foo // batgirl (2000) #9 // batgirl (2000) #65 // my dark vanessa, kate elizabeth russell // detective comics (1937) #734 // i used to be a hole in the ground, katie maria // batgirl (2000) #34 // batgirl (2000) #73 // unfinished duet, richard siken // things you wanted to say but never did, geloy concepcion // detective comics (2016) #976 // a primer for the small weird loves, richard siken // batgirl (2000) #17 // house is an enigma, emma bolden // batgirl secret files and origins (2002) // batgirl (2000) #45 // cassandra: a novel and four essays, christa wolf // batgirl secret files and origins (2002)

[casscainmainly]

Hi! I recently stumbled on your blog and immediately had to follow because Cass Cain centered blogs are so rare and this is like finding a hidden gem.

I noticed that you're a comic book reader and I was wondering if you could recommend some comics that explore Cass as a character? Or stories centering her that you particularly like?

Thank you either way and I hope you're doing well 💜

Hi!! I can ABSOLUTELY recommend some Cass comics, it might be my favourite thing in the world to do. If you want to dive into her entire history, check out this reading list from @dailycass-cain (they're a great Cass-centric blog too!).

Here are some of my fav Cass Cain stories:

Batgirl (2000) - the ultimate Cass comic and an excellent starting point. This gives you pretty much everything you need to know about her, and lays the groundwork for all future stories. You could literally read nothing else and still get an excellent Cass experience with these 70+ issues.

Gotham Knights #2 - Gotham Knights is a fun series featuring many of the Bat-cast, and #2 is a Bruce and Cass story set on a sinking ship. This is an incredible one-shot that explores a big aspect of Cass' character, with some excellent Bruce-Cass moments along the way.

Gates of Gotham - set during DickBats time, this is a gem in an era that wasn't kind to Cass. A great Batfam story, this is still the only significant Damian-Cass development we've ever gotten, and the Tim, Dick, and Cass interactions are all so good. This doesn't get talked about nearly enough, please read it!

Tynion's Detective Comics (2016) - this Cass isn't exactly the same as previous runs (she was erased and brought back with a different backstory). However, this run restores a lot of Cass' traits, and has some truly excellent Cass moments throughout. It's also a great run for Batwoman and Tim! I would recommend knowing the history behind New 52/Rebirth, as well as Batman & Robin: Eternal, before reading this.

Shadow of the Batgirl - out of continuity, but this YA graphic novel is actually a great starting point, or a supplementary to everything else. Though events are different, this story really gets Cass; her relationship to Babs, to Batgirl, to language and to culture are really highlighted here. I see this one a lot at libraries, so it might be more accessible than some of the other comics here!

Other comics you can check out are Batgirl (2024) and Birds of Prey (2023). These are ongoing and amazing so definitely check them out (they're not great entry points for Cass, so I would read the above list first). Also, Ram V's Detective Comics is not Cass-centric but has amazing Cass moments, and Spirit World (2023) is a fun Cass adventure that is tied to her Chinese heritage. Finally, DCeased: Unkillables is a really fun Elseworlds story featuring Cass and Jason against zombies. Lowkey the only universe I accept Cass and Jason getting along, so check it out!

[blackbatcass]

sometimes the ghost of kelley puckett (he is still alive) haunts me. does he know. does he even know. he’s so detached from the comics community and he’s such a private guy (I RESPECT THAT WHOLEHEARTEDLY) that i really and truly do not know if this man knows how much cassandra cain means to us. does he know batgirl 2000 is heralded as the bible of dc solo books, as a lot of people’s favorite comic ever written. does he know how much we love cass. how we write essays over her character and how amazing she is and how she changed our lives. does he know how adored his writing is. does he know he wrote the best comics character introduction of all time. does he even. know.

[horsechestnut]

Batfamily Chronological Reading List

Here it is, a massive list of Batfamily comics all sorted by issue release date so you can read them in the order they were originally intended to be read in, or easily reference back to what happened when. Do you want to know what Dick was up to during A Death in the Family? Need to know if Cass was around yet when Steph had her baby for your fan fic? Just a completion-ist with too much time on your hands like me? Then this is the list for you!

About six months ago I was trying to read my way through some old comics and getting insanely frustrated trying to figure out the order they went in. There are lots of reading lists online, but none of them gave me what I truly wanted: the order of individual issues rather than comic runs or collections. I also couldn't find any that featured all of the Batkids. So I took all of the reading lists I was using, found the On-Sale-Date for each of the issues mentioned, found a few other lists to fill in some gaps, and complied them into chronological order.

This list features what I consider to be the main 8 Batfamily members: Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Damian Wayne, and Duke Thomas. It is by no means every appearance of these characters, but it is hopefully all of the important ones and then some. By no means do I suggest reading all of these (unless you're slightly insane like me), it's more of a reference guide than a read list.

Some Disclaimers:

This is still a work in progress. You'll notice that the first third of the list is much more detailed than the more recent entries. That's because I haven't read them yet. As of now I've only reached Batgirl 2000 #15, but will continue updating as I go through (I'm hoping to finish sometime within the next 12 months).

This is not a Batman list. I have included some issues about Bruce that I feel are important to the overall story, but if I were to include all of his important issues it would make the list unusable. You should still be able to follow his character arcs through his role in the comics listed here.

I needed to cut off somewhere, so anything released after December 31, 2023 was not included. I may go back and change this later, but not any time soon.

I do not want to discredit any of the Batfamily members not included here (ie Kate, Helena, Jean Paul). They are all important to Bruce and Gotham in their own way, but again I needed to cut it off somewhere or I never would have found an end.

For any edits you wish to suggest, please do so through this form. Any suggestions given not through this form will not be considered, and as it says in the form, I also will not consider any that don't have an explanation.

Finally I need to say thank you and give credit to the people who's reading lists I used to create this:

cazzam - New and Improved Cassandra Cain Reading Guide

Comic Book Herald - I used both their Complete Robin and Complete Batgirl Read Order Lists.

The Comic Book Treasury - I used both their Robin Reading Order and their Duke Thomas Reading Order

Comic Book Wire - The Signal Reading Order

Daily Jason Todd - Jason Todd's Reading List

Stephanie Brown Wiki Chronology Page

The Unoffical Guide to the DC Universe was also an incredible help with sorting out timelines, and all of my On-Sale-Date information comes from Grand Comics Database (GCD).

I hope you guys enjoy and find this useful! I'm happy to answer any questions, and if something isn't clear feel free to let me know!

[brucie-baby]

also could you talk more about the violence as language thing for the batfam? I'm very interested in that and still new to the comics so I don't think I've picked up on it yet

Absolutely, I can!! It's pretty explicitly stated at one point, actually. I can give a couple examples.

Bruce hits Tim in #71, and this conversation happens in #81:

[Bruce says: "It was a message. Part of their training. A language. I teach them, when we spar, how we can communicate through blows. In case someone's watching. We were in plain sight. The blow told the bat-family to go quiet, to switch to other, more secure comms. In the meantime, I pursued Bane, knowing I would be defeated. I wanted them to break me, to see me broken. So that I might discover a way to defeat them outside of their watching eyes."]

I don't recall the language being explicitly mentioned at any other time but another example of this that I love is in Batgirl #50:

[Barbara says: Then why? Why in the name of god did you put yourself and Cassandra through that?" Bruce says: "Because she needed it. We both did." Barbara says: "What? Are you saying it was all some kind of screwed-up therapy session?" Bruce says: "What other therapy would Cassandra understand? She grew up with no other contact apart from violence. Fighting is her language, Barbara. The core of her being... of her soul. She had things she needed to get off her chest. And so did I." Barbara says: "You're crazy." Bruce says: "So they say. But it works."]

The thing about with these two is that violence is Cass' first language and Bruce's chosen language. It draws a lot of parallels between not only Bruce&Cass but also Bruce&Cain (but that's a post for another time).

I think it plays a big part in why Cass and Bruce click so well, because they both speak violence. It's a part of them. Bruce just doesn't always understand that while they're similar in this regard, they are not the same, and so he sometimes misunderstands what exactly Cass needs.

Also, I may be remembering this wrong (someone please correct me if I am), but there's a point in Batgirl (2000) where Cass is essentially like 'kill me because dying would fix me', and she's right. It does help her.

There's also this, from the Bruce Wayne - Murderer? storyline:

[Dick, attacking Bruce: "Aren't you even going to try to hit me? Acknowledge me! Damn it, Bruce!"]

I could go into real detail about these panels but honestly I think it's better to read the whole story yourself (very much recommend Murderer/Fugitive, love it). One thing I will mention, however, is that this is after Bruce is like 'Bruce Wayne is a mask, I'm Batman' and Dick is like 'Okay well if that's true then who am I the adopted son of? Who raised me?'

I just think the different ways you can interpret this fight are so interesting. Is it just Dick's anger? Is this Dick trying to prove that Bruce Wayne is not a mask, that he has people he cares for? Is it Dick trying to see how far gone Bruce is? Is it Dick being so used to speaking through violence with Bruce that this is the only way he can talk to him right now? Is the violence so normal that hitting Dick would prove that Bruce is still in there somewhere, still feeling, or would it prove that he truly isn't Bruce anymore? I have my own thoughts on this, but like I said, I recommend reading the whole thing for yourself and finding your own interpretation (it mostly depends on the version of Bruce in your head, to be honest).

The only thing that's definitive here is that the fight is a conversation. By the end of it, Dick has reached a conclusion. It's an argument and a heart-to-heart and a lecture and a vent all in one.

Overall, Bruce finds it easier to speak through blows than words. Maybe this is because he was exposed to violence at a young age, not raised by parents but an employee who allowed him to find himself through fighting and training and discipline. Whatever it was, the violence as a language started with Bruce and was given to his children. Bruce sees this in Cass and finds a kindred spirit. Bruce may not like violence, but he thrives in it.

[himejoshiangels]

batgirl 2000 reread pt 2!!!

Back 2 batgirl..Cass has to have some of the worst daddy issues in the whole family and that's saying so much like between Bruce and Cain she deserves billions of dollars in compensation for all the all the way fucked up and over shit they put her through that she doesn't even have the capacity to work through yet

also this little interaction made me smile, average bat conversation

obsessed w how they integrate cass into the Bruce wayne: murderer storyline. We're operating fully from cass's perspective here and the whole thing is formatted like any other case she's taken on. we get exposition as cass investigates but there's a feeling of uneasiness as she paces the manor. she fully doesn't know who this guy is but we do. we do.

truly one of the most iconic ways anyones ever figured out his identity. she knows him so deeply that she's able to recognize the pure unbridled determination and fury in his eyes just from a picture

Cassandra cain truly stays unmatched, the "I'll kill you" "not tonight" panel hits just as hard as when I first read it. I need a physical copy of this shit NEOWWW. also cass's ability to recognize that Shiva is just as suicidal as she is, that in fighting each other their both fulfilling the others death wish..like we know she isn't going to kill her from the start but it makes the decision all the more powerful

EEEK she's so cutest patootest..she's a detective

cass if projecting onto every case she dealt with was a job..

srsly tho the whole alpha arc thing was sooo good especially when it came to cass's immovable belief that even people with the most diabolical histories are capable of change, are worth saving

ermmm..the lawyers are advising me not to discuss the stephcass drama issue at this current time..thank you

idk how I missed the political commentary the first time but issue 43 got it. FAWK AMERICA

I love this comic I LOVE THIS COMIC!!! I love love love when Cass has a conversation that leads her to experiment which leads her to self discovery. oh my god. truly baffled and disgusted as she discovers gender roles, she just like me fr

THIS^^^^^^ is so, it's such a good way of broadcasting cass's insecurities and emotions to the audience. unlike a lot of characters cass rarely ever says what she's feeling, even when asked she'll often lie. it's either that or a lack of self awareness/means of communication when it comes to her own emotions. BUT this also shows that cass is aware of the complex interpersonal dynamics and drama around her. Usually these things are just implied like when Cass wordlessly punches the shit out of dick for making babs cry, but this is one of the first times in the comic where these things that cass had been feeling and hearing are told instead of shown [which is pretty 50/50 considering the kinda jarring writer switch but I think this specifically was a cool choice]

Cass has a tendency to avoid emotional topics centered around her all together but at the climax of this arc she's forced to confront very conflicting views of her identity, social pressures, and her own insecurities.

this part got to me BAD

Cass's pure and utter devastation in response to Bruce attempting to fire her (I say attempt bcs that shit barely lasted a day) is so gutwrenching. batgirl was the first name she ever had, the first identity as a human being she'd ever had. Not to mention her suicidal-perfectionism. For Batman of all people to say those things to her, not only does she not have anything outside of batgirl (partially BECAUSE of him) but she's literally as close to perfect as it gets, matter a fact bruce literally calls her perfect. To be accused of jeopardizing the mission, despite that she might be the only person who values it just as much as bruce does..No wonder she shatters into a billion pieces when he does that to her. she has nothing else to be if she's not batgirl.

[franollie]

Top five favorite individual comic issues go

5. Birds of Prey (1999) #8: this is the blueprint for how i see dick and babs. there needs to be awkward tension there; they both care deeply about each other and have played important roles in each others lives. where do you go when a relationship like that falls through? oughhh its so good

4. Secret Orgins 80 page giant (Daddy's little vigilante): i like a lot of the story lines in this anthology, but if i had to pick one i'm going with steph's "origin story". though, bart's story is a close second

3. New Teen Titans #38: the first time i read this i was SAT. I loved watching everything unfold and im truly jealous of people who get to read this for the first time. AUGH and the end!! kicking and giggling fr

2. Superboy (1994) #85: This is my comfort issue. there's just so much fun to be had with all the character interactions. truly proves tim, kon, cass team up superiority (bonus points because every kon in this is precious)

1. Batgirl (2000) #28: god this stephcass bonding is soooo top tier. you learn so much about these girls in just this issue with very little dialogue. the writing is immaculate and the art is just soooo fluid and dynamic. im obsessed.

[saltineofswing]

ANOTHER EARTH, FILE 001 – BATMAN

Circa 1996-2003 – ‘BRUCE WAYNE’S TERRIBLE HORRIBLE NO-GOOD VERY BAD DECADE’

The turn of the century is bad for everybody in a world where there’s a new catastrophe every week, but for Batman especially, this is a rough stretch. To this point, all of the despotic alien dictators and insane transdimensional imps have been haranguing Superman, up the coast in Metropolis, But in 1996, the Thanagarian Invasion of Earth occurs, and the Justice League is shaken to is very core. In 1997, Grayson trades up to Nightwing, and Bruce takes on a new Robin, the young Jason Todd, who is definitely going to be fine don’t worry about it. 

This'un is a doozy, truly comic-tier explanation below the cut.

In 1998, shit hits the fan for Batman specifically. Surprise! The Joker kills Jason Todd while perpetrating a scheme outside of the US, right as Bruce and Jason are on the cusp of truly bonding as father and son. A couple months later, the Joker reappears in Gotham and cripples Barbara Gordon, then-Batgirl and also the daughter of Commissioner James Gordon, one of Batman’s staunchest allies. The Joker’s sudden and somewhat inexplicable slide from dangerous, but goofy, crime gimmicks into genuine stochastic terrorism sets off a chain reaction amongst Gotham’s gallery of rogues. In 1999, at around the one-year-mark of Jason’s death, Tim Drake convinces Bruce to accept him as the new Robin after reverse-engineering Batman’s secret identity.

And in 2000, a new and dangerous foe emerges to challenge Batman, self-styled as Batman’s greatest foe – his bane, if you will. It’s Bane. And Bane breaks the bat. During Bruce’s recovery period, he selects Azrael to fill in for him. Azrael, as an unstable zealot at the best of times, ultimately defeats Bane but also does real damage to Bruce’s personal sphere; between the death of Robin II and Bruce choosing to keep his infirmity a secret from his coworkers in the Justice League and subsequent confusion around just who was in the bat-suit during this period, Batman’s reputation takes a substantial black eye at every level, and Bruce starts to cut himself off from friends and family. 

In 2002, a massive earthquake hits the United States’ eastern seaboard, with the epicenter just barely offshore of Gotham City. The city is plunged into absolute chaos due to extreme structural damage to a huge portion of Gotham’s downtown area; the island on which most of the city is built is cut off from the mainland, and the federal government evacuates about 75% of Gotham’s civilian population. The remaining 25% of civilians are basically left to die, as the government declares Gotham City a federal No-Man’s Land, locking down its border. Warring supervillain factions and desperate militarized police forces are eventually brought to heel… by Bane, who takes over Gotham in the confusion. 

Bruce returns to Gotham with Catwoman and finally defeats Bane personally, bringing an expanded Bat-Family to bear and restoring his public image. He also internalizes, finally, the value of relying on other people. He takes a liking to the new Batgirl who emerges during this trial, Cassandra Cain, and formally establishes ties to Stephanie Brown (briefly Robin, currently Spoiler). Simultaneously, Lex Luthor leverages a metric fuck-ton of political influence to get Gotham’s borders reopened, using the positive publicity to get a pardon of past crimes from the President and undetake a Senatorial campaign. 

The suit reflects how utterly fucked Batman’s life is during this period of time. Battered, frayed, with armor plating literally strapped on where old pieces have been damaged or torn off. The tech boom resulting from the Thanagarian Invasion has begun to hit every layer of civilian life at this point, which means villains are starting to get more and crazier gadgets and Batman is forced to keep up. Stylistically it takes inspiration from late-80s/early-90s Batman suits; it’s also the debut of my solution to the costume boyshorts ‘problem’ (I don’t necessarily think it’s a problem, mind you) – Thigh highs!

Back To Title

Circa 1990

Circa 1992

Circa 2003-2007

Circa 2008+

[sjbattleangel]

Wow! That was an extremely clever and inventive fight scene. What made it even more compelling was Kaine's commentary on Ben: How even if he is a clone, even if he died once, he still chooses to live his own life and keep fighting on. I find it very poetic.

One of my favourite comic fights of all time is Batgirl/Cass Cain's battle against Lady Shiva in Batgirl (2000) #25 by Kelley Puckett and Damion Scott.

After being killed by Shiva in a long-awaited death-wish duel, Cass is then revived by her.

Shiva questions why Cass was so determined to die, she tells her it was over her guilt of killing a man. Being filled with such disgust and shock over her actions ever since that moment, she wanted to sacrifice her life in repentance of taking another.

By seeing her grisly "trophies", Cass learns that Shiva too has a death-wish to be killed a worthy, equal opponent. Yet Cass refuses to give Shiva the glorious death she desires, upholding her vows to never take another life.

What then follows is one of the greatest fights I have ever seen in a comic: Damion Scott's awesome Pop Art-meets-anime art is truly immersive and energetic with its use of fast-paced breakdowns; stylized fluid character movement; expressive action. Almost like an action film or something out of Aeon Flux.

The ending shot is just so perfect in the way the two are presented as opposites in tandum, with heavy allusions to Yin and Yang. Shiva representing death and destruction, Cass rebirth and redemption.

The closing lines are bangers.

"I'll...kill you."

"Not tonight."

*chief's kiss*

One of my favorite Spider-Man: Clone Saga stories has always been the 4-part "The Exile Returns" arc, which not only features Ben Reilly's debut as the Scarlet Spider, but also Benjy's first major victory as a superhero since returning to New York after 5-years when he singlehandedly defeats Venom in mortal combat. What made the fight between Ben and Venom so epic was that the story was actually a response to a previous story in Amazing Spider-Man (1963) #375, which had Peter Parker make a deal with Venom to stay out of each other's way. The reason that was done was because Marvel wanted to turn Venom into an anti-hero during the 90s, but a lot of fans and creators were really pissed off about that story, since they felt that Peter making a pact with Venom betrayed the character's sense of responsibility. And this frustration was openly expressed in The Exile Returns, with Ben Reilly being incredibly shocked that Peter would have done such a thing, basically declaring to himself, "If Peter's not going to accept responsibility and bring Venom to justice, I'll have to step in and do it myself!"

Spider-Man group editor Glenn Greenberg even commented on the writers of The Exile Returns deliberately referencing ASM #375 in the 36-part online essay, "The Life of Reilly," which extensively covers all the behind-the-scenes drama surrounding The Clone Saga:

And the way Ben defeats Venom is so clever and inventive! Instead of relying upon the symbiote's usual weaknesses of loud noises and extreme heat, Ben utilizes his own original inventions as the Scarlet Spider. Ben shooting multiple "impact-webbing" pellets down Venom's mouth which immediately expand into hundreds of little webs that get caught directly in-between Eddie Brock and the symbiote, weakening their bond as Ben then shoots his "stinger" web darts to further weaken Venom as he beats him into submission.

Seeing Ben Reilly singlehandedly take down the one supervillain that Peter Parker was never able to truly defeat up until that point was honestly one of the most badass and entertaining fight scenes that I've ever read in a superhero comic!

And its honestly shocking that neither impact-webbing nor stingers stuck around in the comics after The Clone Saga ended (only appearing in the video game adaptations), since those things are so FREAKING awesome!

From adjectiveless Spider-Man (1990) #53 by Howard Mackie & the late Tom Lyle (May he Rest In Peace...).

[fantastic-nonsense]

i don't know if you've already made a post about this but what comic(s) do you think have the best characterisation of cassandra cain and dick grayson?

My instinctive response to this ask was to just answer "Prodigal and Batgirl (2000)" and be on my way. Instead, I took a little bit more time to think about what my answer should be and what information might be useful to people looking for comics featuring a well-characterized Dick and Cass. So, with that said:

Dick:

Robin: Year One (2000)

New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans (1980 & 1984)

Batman: Year Three (1989)

Batman: Prodigal (1997)

Titans Vol. 1 (1999)

Nightwing/Birds of Prey: The Hunt for Oracle (2000)

Gotham Knights (2000) #1-12

Peter Tomasi's run on Nightwing (1996)

Batman: The Black Mirror (2010)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Listen. All of these comics have their flaws. Many of them feature dated and occasionally poor treatment of various characters/social issues. I'm still holding a grudge against Devin Grayson for her Nightwing run and will until the end of time, and thus the inclusion of Titans Vol. 1 and her first Gotham Knights arcs might seem a bit odd. But I also think this is a pretty solid list of comics that portray Dick in ways that feel consistent and faithful to his core characterization; they're also some of the comics that feature Dick at his best.

Cass:

Batgirl (2000): specifically the Puckett/Scott run (#1-37) and the Gabrych run (#38 & #58-73)

Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive (2003)

Gates of Gotham (2011)

Tynion's run on Detective Comics (2016)

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

Batgirl Vol. 1 was and continues to be the golden standard of how to portray Cass. She's never reached those heights again. Other comics featuring Cass wish they were Batgirl Vol. 1, but it was a true "lightning in a bottle" run that has yet to be replicated. That being said: Murderer/Fugitive (which takes place during Cass's Batgirl run) is great, and Gates of Gotham features the only solid pre-reboot Cass characterization post-Evil Cass arc.

Post-Flashpoint!Cass is a bit of a different animal, but within the context and limitations placed on her appearances until Dan Didio's departure from DC in 2020, she's best characterized and treated in Detective Comics Rebirth and Batman and the Outsiders.

Honorable mentions: these comics either weren't quite on the same level of "good characterization" to make the list or just didn't highlight the character as much as they could have, but I still really like what the creative team did with them in the space they were given:

Dick: Nightwing (1996) #6 (for being a fun depiction of Dick and Tim's early-days relationship), Teen Titans (2003) #6 (great characterization of Dick. So-so characterization of...several other characters), The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (I love Dick's characterization here, and it's one of my favorite Bat books, but he's just not in it all that much), and Batman & Robin (2009), which...I'll get into my complicated feelings about Morrison's B&R run some other time, but generally: I like Dick's characterization in this comic a lot in isolation. It becomes much more difficult to square, however, when you take everything else going on during the Reborn era into account.

Cass: Mariko Tamaki's Shadows of the Bat: The Tower (2021) event and "Sounds" short from the DC Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) anthology. They're nice and have some great Cass moments, but they're either too short (Sounds) or too focused on other characters/the overall plot (The Tower) to truly do her justice.

[sohotthateveryonedied]

Feel free to ignore this if you're not feeling up to it or something, but I was wondering if you know any panels where the batkids are shown mourning each other's deaths? I feel like most of what I see is the effect it has on Bruce. Anyway thank you, and three cheers for the stuff you're doing. The nerd inside me loves a good comprehensive masterpost.

everyone knows the perfect way to kick off pride month is by compiling panels of the batkids mourning each other's deaths, of course

ALRIGHT SO HERE'S WHAT I'VE GOT:

(i'm doing this thing chronologically so i'm starting with jason's death, then steph's, then damian's, etc.)

Mourning Jason:

Believe it or not, Dick took Jason's death really hard once he found out. I know the DC writers want you to think that Dick and Jason hated each other when they met, but Dick truly cared about Jason and grieved his death just as much as Bruce did.

New Teen Titans #5

Jason and Barbara were each other's Robin and Batgirl, so Barbara took the news of his death pretty hard as well. She and her dad showed up at Jason's funeral and everything.

Gotham Knights #44

Mourning Stephanie:

We all know how Tim's mental health took a plunge after he lost Steph (and everyone else he cared about, whoops), so he grieved her pretty much every day until it was revealed that she was alive roughly a year later. Steph's death pushed Tim to become a darker version of himself, and he even devoted himself to finding a way to bring her back during the "Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul" storyline. Because self-care is resurrecting your dead loved ones while mid-breakdown <3

Robin #156

Nightwing (1996) #139

Steph was Cass' first friend, as well as the first person she lost who actually meant something to her. She spent a long period of time grieving Stephanie after War Games, so she and Tim leaned on each other while they were both operating in Bludhaven, since they were both going through the same pain.

Batgirl (2000) #58

Mourning Damian:

Damian is probably right up there with Jason in terms of being one of the most impactful Robin deaths. His loss touched pretty much everyone—especially Dick, up until Dick faked his death and everyone had yet another loss to mourn.

Batman Incorporated #9

Nightwing (2011) #18

Jason wasn't really shown mourning Damian's death himself, so much as he was there to support everyone else in their grief. He knew what kind of an impact losing a son would have on Bruce and the others, so Jason did what he could to be there for them and help them through it.

Justice League (2011) #19

For all that Tim and Damian claimed to hate each other, Tim did care a lot about Damian and took his death extremely hard to the point where he hallucinated Damian's ghost and gave us that well-known hug scene between the two.

Teen Titans (2011) #18

Mourning Dick:

There sadly aren't many examples of the batkids grieving Dick after his "death," mostly because the plan to have him fake his death and go undercover as a spy was a pretty late decision, and the writers for the other series didn't have time to change up the scripts and show the characters giving Dick's loss the attention it deserved at the time.

Barbara was shown missing Dick shortly after his death, even if the reference was a little small compared to how it should have been when you think about their history and the impact his death should have had on her.

Batgirl (2011) #30

What gets my blood boiling is that we were supposed to get the funeral Dick deserved in the originally planned 2011 Nightwing series finale. There were plans for a huge farewell comic in which all of Dick's loved ones attended his funeral, and then the end of the comic was going to reveal that Dick was actually alive and going off to play spy. Sadly, this comic was scrapped because DC hates us and doesn't want us to be happy.

The original Nightwing #30 comic was supposed to include stuff like Jason and Tim realizing that they are now the last of the Robins, Roy crying over Dick's (fake) dead body, Barbara and Tim holding hands as they grieve together, Jason actually loving and missing his brother, hugs all around, and a bunch more that ended up being replaced with a stupid comic of Bruce and Dick beating the shit out of each other. Sigh.

Nightwing (2011) #30 Original Artwork

Mourning Tim:

Tim was...sort of grieved properly? He got more than Dick did, at least. 

We saw everyone’s initial reactions when Tim got annihilated by the drones, so that was a nice sad moment.

Detective Comics #940

While Dick treated Tim like little more than a coworker after the reboot instead of the brother he used to love, he was shown at least respecting Tim and being moderately sad about his death.

Deathstroke (2016) #34

Jason didn’t attend Tim’s funeral, but it’s clear that he does genuinely miss him and feel guilty about not being there for him when it counted.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #3

Miraculously, Damian is shown having more feelings about Tim’s death than most of the others in the Batfamily. Sure he’s a little snot about it, (taking over the Teen Titans and making them better than they were when Tim was leading them), but it was done with love, okay? It counts.

Teen Titans (2016) #1

Tim’s death had a huge impact on Steph (obviously; they were in love and all), and actually led to her getting a pretty interesting character arc so yay! Tim got fridged so Steph could get some awesome character development, I’m so proud of her <3

Detective Comics #943

Detective Comics #946

Aaaand that’s all I’ve got! Lots of drama, lots of angst, lots of grief. Hell yeah.

[autisticcassandracain]

top 5 dc storylines / arcs? this is me asking for recommendations honestly

OH HELL YEAH LET'S GO

Robin: Son of Batman #1-6: Listen. I did a whole meta post about how good it is. I CANNOT recommend this enough. It's the best version of Damian's redemption arc there has ever been, probably the best version of Damian's character period, it's a modern comic series that actually uses Talia in a way that's pretty good, Maya is a FANTASTIC character, and the way it examines redemption as a concept is brilliant. Like half of this arc lives in my head rent free there's SO many brilliant moments in here I can't even list them all. Please read this.

Blue Beetle (2006) Reach Arc: The Reach arc is what superhero stories should be, namely an extremely fun romp against a stupidly overpowered enemy showing you just how badass our hero is while providing meaningful character development and giving the side characters some real time to shine. Everything leading up to it was great as well, and this is a perfect finale. From the top of my head I think it's the first 25 issues? No promises though.

We Are Robin #1-6: Less a coherent arc than like, the stuff pre-Robin War that I actually really like. Robin War itself sucks and the stuff afterwards is decent, but the first six issues are where this series truly shines. I was very skeptical going in, but found myself pleasantly surprised at the examination on what the Robin mantle actually means, as well as the depth of the characters. If you're interested in Duke Thomas or Robin as a legacy mantle, I highly recommend reading this.

Who Is Donna Troy?: A single-issue arc that's famous for all the right reasons. Dick Grayson does detective work to figure out where Donna Troy came from. It has a very unique style, brilliant plot progression, and actually made me pretty emotional. It later got some sequels that were deeply mediocre imo and completely missed the point of what made this issue so good: its solid focus on character, and a departure of the traditional superhero form for a detective story. Other storylines keep giving homage to this or outright ripping it off and every time I'm like, no, you will not be Who Is Donna Troy, stop trying to be Who Is Donna Troy. It's in New Teen Titans (1980/volume 1) #38.

hnnnnng there's really tough competition for this spot but I'm going to give it to The Shiva Arc (and everything leading up to it) in Batgirl (2000). The actual arc itself is short, only about two issues long, but for full effect you have to read what leads up to it. I think this is the part of Batgirl (2000) that's the best, and this arc in particular is a fantastic examination of Cass's character with some very memorable visuals (the panel of Babs sitting, paralyzed, staring at a still image of Cass's murder haunts me). It's actually also a great use of Shiva's character, and one of the few times that her being beaten doesn't feel like a cheap way to up the stakes/show how cool a hero is; although I do have mixed feelings on the elements introduced in her character in this, but still, I feel like they had potential if they'd actually been expanded upon (which, sadly, they weren't). The things that really hold this one back is a) the fact that the colourist insists on colouring Cass yellow, and b) the orientalism, which is of course inescapable in Shiva's character (her name is Lady Shiva, and she's very much not Indian), but I do feel like this was one of the most egregious examples of it. If you want to read this, just start reading Batgirl (2000), you'll hit it naturally.

[amaraudermind]

Oh boy, comic and show recs? :)

I have a ton, I have more than I care to try to list at once, so many that I'll talk under a readmore.

Comics

We Are Robin: a short run but a brilliant series, if you enjoyed wfa then it's a great place to start a deep dive into Duke Thomas as a character

Batgirl Vol. 1: the first ongoing Batgirl series, starring Cassandra Cain! Absolutely brilliant run, am a big fan

Batgirl Vol. 3: STEPH! This is Steph's run as Batgirl and I cannot recommend it enough, truly one of my favorite series of all time

Impulse: Really I recommend any Flash family book, particularly those by Mark Waid, but Impulse is such a great run that I will mention it specifically. The family dynamics are incredible.

Young Justice(1998): This series means everything to me. A warning, a lot of the latest nineties, early 2000s humor has aged horrifically, and some of the gags are in poor taste. Overall though, the series is amazing, with such fascinating teen hero dynamics and struggles that it's well worth the read.

Robin: Son of Batman: This! Is one of the best series to read if you've liked what you've seen so far of Damian! This series holds my heart and I miss the run terribly, truly the Damian series ever<3

If you liked the Super Sons movie I would definitely recommend most of their comic runs! The only one I'd recommend to never ever get your hands on is the series of graphic novels for children by Pearson! Trust me, it's not worth it, save yourself the time. Everything else starring the Super Sons is pretty great from what I remember.

If you liked the Harley Quinn show, my sibling tells me every comic run Harley has had is fantastic, but I have not read them and cannot confirm myself. But there are tie in comics to the animated series that have the same feel, so I'd definitely recommend giving that a shot!

Shows

Batman: The Animated Series: this cartoon is a classic, and has always been a favorite of mine. Though sparse on the various bat characters, there's a ton of groundbreaking storylines concerning both Bruce and his villains, and interesting interpersonal relationships as well. (Also has my favorite version of Talia Al Ghul to ever make it to the screen!!)

Batman Beyond: man, if B:TAS is a classic, BB is a masterpiece! Hands down, Terry McGinnis is my favorite Batman. Ever. No contest. His dynamic with Bruce is fantastic, and he truly is the only successor to the Bat Mantle that truly made it is own and did it so well.

The Batman(2004): yeah, another Batman. Most of these will be, actually. But! This is a great take on the character, a fresh take on his rogue's gallery, a cute take on Batgirl, and a wonderful take on the Batman and Robin dynamic. It truly is a worthwhile watch.

Justice League/Justice League Unlimited: listing these together because jlu is a continuation of jl! If you want a broad look at a ton of different DC characters done with clear love and care for each and every one, this is a great place to start! These shows are why I love the Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, The Question....really brilliant overall.

Teen Titans(2003): oh man, this show was my childhood! It is a fantastic series with great storylines and wonderful relationship dynamics. The only stipulation I put here is this: your understanding of these characters will be skewed if you ever decide to look for comics of them. The most glaring differences are in Starfire and Raven, but all of them vary wildly from their comic counterparts. I find the show completely worth it, myself.

I will cut off the recommendations here, hopefully it's not too long and overwhelming. There's so much great content to be found if you're looking for it, and I hope you enjoy your descent into the DC fandom.

Hey y’all, I’ve finished watching the Harley Quinn show, I’ve read through The Wayne Family Adventures, and watched the Battle of the Supersons. Besides Suicide Squad, I’ve never watched any DC stuff. I’d like get into DC comics and tv shows— only the good stuff though. Does anyone have recommendations on where to start??

[deadletterpoets]

What makes Batgirl (2000) special?

Someone asked me this on twitter and I'll be lying if I had a straight answer. As with most things I think what makes Cassandra Cain's Batgirl run special for me will be different for other people. What especially makes it different is the lead up to me reading it compared to basically every other comic I've read. It's one of the very few comics that introduced me to a character without me expecting or wanting me to be introduced to said character. That backstory can be long so I'll attempt to do a quick version here.

Before I read DC comics I was reading Marvel exclusively. I was watching DC animated/live action movies and shows and playing video games so I was knowledgeable enough to know that universe. At least enough to hold a conversation. Eventually a friend of my mom gave me 9 boxes full of comic books. I mean just a shit ton of comics. It had DC/Marvel/indie it was stacked, true collector shit (I have sold most of it since then cause I moved and couldn't keep them going with me). In one of those boxes was a Batgirl #1. Now at the time I only knew Barbara Gordon was Batgirl (I did know she was also called Oracle thanks to the Arkham games). I remember looking at that cover and being so confused cause I had never seen that Batgirl suit before, but I loved Barbara Gordon and figured this would be a great way to dive in to the comic version of Batgirl. So imagine my surprise reading that first issue.

Now I will try not to go to long and get back to the main topic of, What makes Batgirl (2000) special? The short answer? It's Cassandra Cain. I fell in love with her character and her story faster than I think I've fallen for a character before in my life. I am a sucker for characters that are bred and raised as certain archetypes and defy that. Cassandra also grew very special to me because despite her lack of expressing and understanding language in a way we understand it her ability to communicate and express herself was always shown in such a unique ways I never felt like i was reading a character whose disability and inability was a joke or a hindrance. Cassandra Cain excelled despite her disability with reading and communicating and excelled at being a hero because of her abilities and her drive and passion (and guilt). She was always the star of the book and her journey and character development was the progression as the issues continued. It wasn't just 5-6 plot arcs with small to no character progression in between.

Speaking of plot the book is also special to me so much because it has some of the best one off stories and it does it all so casually. The book thrives on character so I was able to connect and care about Cassandra, Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, and even Shiva in ways that most books today don't get to get into cause they put plot over character. It's so good that even though Rebirth!Cass is technically a different character you can tell most of the way people write her is as if they are trying to slide small increments of her journey from Batgirl into their stories today (it's especially noticeable with Tynion).

All in all Batgirl (2000) really set a standard for me with what I expect from a Batgirl book and from comic books in general. I have to especially highlight Puckett/Scott first 37 issues cause despite so many trying to "beat" them their run is still the best Cassandra Cain has been written (though Kuhn's Shadow is as close a second we'll probably get for a long time) and while I look forward to what the future may hold for Cass I do wish more people truly went back and studied just what made her work as a character in the first place.

TL;DR - Cassandra Cain is a brilliant character and the book expertly showcases that.

[renaroo]

[Batgirl (2000-2006) #36]

For Cass’ Birthday this year, I didn’t have a whole lot planned like I’ve done in previous years -- part of getting older and getting into your career is the unfortunate reality that time can’t always be dedicated to such things in the near-limitless ways it was before, but there is one thing I did want to make sure I had some time spent on. 

I recently sat down and reread Cass’ Batgirl (2000-2006) series, as in I did so this very weekend, to appreciate it all over again and really feel the impact of a lot of its highs and lows. It’s amazing how much age and experience can change your perspective each time. 

And of all the moments and all of the truly defining traits that really make Cassandra, to this day, my favorite comic book hero, this one moment in #36 hit me harder than it ever has in the past.

“You can change. You can.”

It isn’t a question, it isn’t a plea outright, it’s Cass’ statement, and it’s the statement that wraps up her character journey for the first half of her entire series. 

Comic books, especially monthly ongoings, do not necessarily need a thesis statement to justify their existence. In fact, for the sake of longevity, it’s probably more advantageous for comics if they avoid having one which can limit the scope of future projects, but Batgirl (2000-2006) came out of the gates with the very explicit purpose of giving Cassandra and her journey purpose. 

And from issues #1 through #25, what hangs over the series is Cassandra’s suicidal death wish to ensure that every person she meets has the opportunity to live their lives, no matter who they are or no matter what they do, out of the horror she lives with of knowing she ended one man’s life. 

Of course, the conflict that defines Cass against all the other Batman related characters who may also be interested in the preservation of life is that Cass does not extend that view to herself. In fact, she puts her life continuously on the line unnecessarily and even throws away her life in a deal with Lady Shiva -- a promise of certain death in the span of a year -- just for the devil’s bargain that she will still have the skills to save as many other people as possible. 

After her deathmatch with Shiva, and dying and being revived, Cassandra is able to move forward and reevaluate her own value -- she lets herself get close to others now that she no longer worries about burdening them with her imminent demise, she wants to work harder toward new skills to make her good at being Batgirl (like detective work) now that it doesn’t seem like she’s wasting the last months of her life with a distraction.

And all of this growth is spawned from the realization she makes in #25 that just as she believes everyone else, including assassins and murderers, are worthy of a second chance, are worthy of living to make amends for their past, she had been worthy of that same compassion all along.

Cassandra’s most defining trait as a character is her unending compassion for other people. She judges actions and harm harshly, of course, but the people who commit wrongdoing are always worthy of her baseline love and respect no matter what. It’s a loving nature that genuinely shocks and endears every character to her. It’s the reason, even after surviving horrific abuse and being alone most of her life, she makes the right decisions and is a superhero -- because she always knows innately to do what’s right for others. 

But her biggest flaw for the first third of her series is that she has never been good at pointing that compassion and forgiveness in toward herself. And it limited her message, it limited her ability to reach people who, much like herself, were horrified and burdened by their own pasts. She couldn’t assure them of a brighter future if she didn’t believe it for herself.

By this point in the series, by #36, the halfway point for the series as a whole, she did. She could say to someone like the assassin Alpha that there was hope for him, that he could change just like she had. Because she finally loved and valued herself, too.

And, for me, this is what makes Cass and her series so special and so different. 

I am one of those people who, for most of my life, had very little capacity for self-compassion and forgiveness. And I struggle with it still today, honestly. I don’t easily let go of things that I don’t like about myself and it limits the ability I have to change and get better. 

I can change, though. I can be a better person every single day if I love myself enough to feel like I’m worth the effort. 

And so can you. No matter how big of an effort that may require.

So, thank you, Cassandra Cain, Kelley Puckett, Scott Peterson, Damion Scott, and the later writers and artists who also hooked me with Cass’ story -- Dylan Horrocks, Adrian Sibar, Rick Leonardi, Andersen Gabrych, Alé Garza, Pop Mhan, and so many other talented artists and writers, inkers and colorists, editors and more from over the years. 

Happy Cassday, hope you all are kind to yourself today to celebrate properly <3

[preciousthingsareprecious]

1/2 Hello . I'd like to ask something about Damian. I read a lot of fanfic with Damian in it but comics-wise I've only read Supersons. Now, from what I've seen so far from both supersons and also numerous pannels here on tumblr that are extracted from other comics it seems to me that Damian actually acts more child-like in canon than fandom?

2/2 I’ve grown used to him being all sophisticated, almost like an adult in child’s body and using those formal speach patterns all the time (which is very funny and I prefer him like that tbh), but I’m suprised to see that in actual comics it’s not quite the case? Idk? So what’s the thing with that, is fandom exaggerating with his behaviour or is he truly like that but I just haven’t read those particular runs that fandom bases it’s depiction of Damian off of? Thanks

Hey Nonie, this is a great question, and I think it’s layered. Damian, like any character written about extensively in canon and fanon is going to have discrepancies between how you see him and how other people see him. 

I’m going to give you some canon evidence for his being ‘formal’ and then talk about him in fanon as well, it’ll get kind of long so I’m going to put the rest under the cut.

Also, quick disclaimer, I haven’t read everything Damian’s been in so there’s probably a lot I’m missing from here. And there’s just so much to him I can’t cover everything in one post or attempt to and do him total justice. 

I want to start with the idea that Damian has more than just one defining characteristic (like most people). He’s a kid (8-13 yrs) who was raised under strict rules and with assassins. He spent much of his life before joining the Batfam being groomed to be the next Alexander/ruler of the world.

So he struggles between being a kid and everything else he was taught. He wants to be seen as older and respected for that, but he is still a kid. 

Initially Damian is written very bratty, he was meant to be an unlikable character so almost every one of his actions and words displays that in older comics. Once he joined the Batfam and became a character that was going to stick around for a while he started to even out personality wise. 

A good deal of his formal tone shows up in his pre New 52 comics like the Batman and Robin run where Dick is Batman, Red Robin, Batgirl, and other Batman spin offs from the early 2000′s. 

These are from Batgirl, Streets of Gotham, Red Robin, and Batman and Robin. 

In comics this is the period where Damian is still adjusting to being in Gotham, and being Robin. He’s learning to be a kid instead of the next world leader that his mother trained him to be, so he’s got a lot of conflicting emotions across the comics. Many are like my examples, but there’s also times where he is shown more kid like, with actions and words. 

Once New 52 hits and he is Bruce’s Robin he still carries some of that formal tone (Especially depending on the writer) but it’s often shown in flashbacks to his early childhood or in earlier comics with him. That doesn’t mean it’s not there, it’s still part of who he is and how he was raised, but over the course of comics he’s gradually been allowed to become more of a kid (especially in Tomasi and Gleason’s writings).

These are from Batman and Robin (the Tomais and Gleason run) and Robin: Son of Batman

Damian also shows a bit of his formal tone in Rebirth titles. Especially Nightwing. (Though I should add that in Nightwing Damian is also shown as being very kiddy as well, which is amazing)

Nightwing

So there is some precedent for Damian’s speech in canon, but I also have to agree that part of how prevalent it is in fanfiction is partially fanon. 

There’s a few reasons I have for this, the first is that many writers write what they read, secondly Damian has been so inconsistent in canon (in the past and recently) that it’s easier to find a strong voice for a character and stick with that.  It’s also a very distinct voice, which for a lot of writers is something to latch onto. It’s something you read and can go, “oh that’s Damian” without needing an indication that it was him who said it. 

A lot of writers (myself included) like to write the Batfam in this nebulous out of canon area where they all exist together, and have a fairly stable relationship with each other. Which hasn’t really happened in canon before (the closest was the 2000′s and even then it wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows). But the point of that is that this is the time when Damian was most like this, and his pull between the two times in his life was greatest. 

Something I want to emphasize about Damian is that he’s a kid who is dealing with the dichotomy of being raised to be ‘the best’ and being part of a large family unit. Not only that, while he might be Bruce’s son by blood, he spent many years simply trying to belong to the family. Bruce rejected him initially, he went from being an only kid to the youngest in a large family,  and very few people around him liked him. So he’s constantly trying to prove himself, and constantly trying to be the best while also trying to learn how to work with his family and be a part of it. He is self-assured and also always on unsteady ground. 

It’s because of this I think a lot of writers stick with his formal tone in fics. It’s something that helps (at least me) get into his head and think about what he might be dealing with. 

That said, he has grown a lot over the years, and he does act much closer to his age in comics now than he did in the past. So maybe part of the difference is fic writers catching up to what is in canon instead of sticking with what we’re used to writing. 

Either way, it’s an interesting question an I’m not sure I’ve given you a sufficient answer, but it is what I have. I hope this helps.