#back in my day it was anti character not character critical

[mossmelancholic]

i feel my main issue with the finale is that it’s a bad ending that exists for the wrong reasons.

one of the aspects of c!tommy’s lore that appealed to me was how fundamentally bleak his existence always turns out to be. he’s inherently a tragic character: the consequences for his actions are always overblown in comparison to both the intent and the impact of them. because of his loud personality and even louder voice, he’s the centre of attention in any room he walks into, which makes him a quick and easy scapegoat if you’re looking for someone to blame. he’s stubborn and he’s surviving, but he’s never at peace with his circumstances because something is always missing - his discs, his friends, his family.

i know that suffering for the sake of suffering is not a story beat that many are fond of. i know that many watchers just wanted tommy to heal because he deserved something hopeful. but to see a character whose circumstances are always stagnating, stuck in this tiring cycle where they always find themselves ending up right back where they started… that really appealed to me on a personal level, and so keeping that in mind, i always thought there was a chance his ending was not going to be a happy one.

but to me, this does not feel like his ending. it’s not an ending that exists for c!tommy. it’s not the natural conclusion to his story. this was an ending made to excuse c!dream’s entire villain arc instead. c!tommy’s characterisation as a victim did not matter here, because characterising c!dream as a victim instead was the intended goal. the abuse c!dream inflicted on c!tommy is less important than desperately clutching at straws to make a character, that we as an audience have no reason to view as sympathetic, ‘worthy’ of our sympathy. the narrative is desperate to give room for c!dream to have a second chance, something that comes at the cost of enabling victim blaming against a canonical child abuse survivor.

when c!tommy, in the haze of memory loss, befriends his abuser, i don’t think it was intended to be tragic. it could and should have been, because c!tommy having no recollection of anything is a good set-up that would leave him vulnerable, open to c!dream’s manipulation once again because he doesn’t know who to avoid and who not to trust. but it isn’t trying to be unsettling when we see c!tommy unknowingly befriending his abuser; it’s meant to be a sign of hope that now everything has been reset, maybe there could be peace again. it doesn’t work, because the viewers remember everything even if the characters don’t. instead the amnesia plot line feels like a flimsy method of making a blank slate and a fresh new start where c!dream can avoid the consequences of his actions completely. this is a unintentional bad ending for c!tommy, because he’s placed in a position where he will grow to trust someone who has the full capacity to hurt him, but it’s an intentional good ending for c!dream and it seems that’s where the cc’s priorities lie.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

not spop-related but i can't post this on my main blog so.

i do find it funny how most of the fan depictions of belos were far more interesting and detailed than s3 belos. i've seen fanart and fanfics of him where he's a complex villain struggling with religious guilt and then the canon is just like.. lmao yeah he's pure evil. kill him.

[threewaysdivided]

Hey ! i'm a longtime follower of your blog and I've read a lot of your YJ analysis and why the latter seasons totally flopped. I haven't seen you comment on Young Justice Phantoms, although I guess your opinion remains the same. However I'd love to read it one day.

PS : I do think Greg Weisman is a decent writer, but not that good at characterization and desperatly needs editors and not enablers *sigh*

Hey nonnie!

Glad you’ve found my YJ writing critiques interesting. 

The reason why I haven’t commented on Young Justice: Phantoms (or the final Targets comic) is that I haven’t watched it, haven’t read a synopsis and have no plans to ever do so.  My interest in the series went pretty cold as far back as Invasion but at the time I was willing to give the showrunners good faith on their claims that they had a plan to bring things together and that the problems were mostly production issues.  However, after how bad Outsiders was (and having seen similar awfulness from Greg Weisman in other franchises) I don’t have any good faith or trust left to give them.

I talked at length about how Outsiders left the show with no compelling narrative as part of this big Invasion breakdown (grumpier TL:DR version here), but here are the most relevant sections:

In terms of the Central Conflict, the Light are proved utterly correct: by Outsiders the Original Team are callous, hollow husks of their former selves, who have replicated a worse version of the same status quo the Team originally formed in response to. Dick, Kaldur and M’gann’s Anti-Light are a new upper echelon of older heroes who keep even more secrets from the next generations, who exclude the new generations far more strongly from knowing their plans, who give them even less reason to trust or communicate with them, and who do so for less just, less honest and less narratively justified reasons than their own mentors’ understandable (if condescending) desire to shield the proteges from the parts of the Life they may not yet have been equipped to face. Not only that but their constant lying with the intent to control others, and refusal to hold themselves accountable for those actions goes directly against both the League’s stated heroic ideals of “Truth, Liberty and Justice” and Red Tornado’s conclusion that caring is “the human thing to do”. By the end of Outsiders, even the existence of the Team itself is undone; decommissioned into the exact kind of safe training space that the Season 1 characters were desperate for it never to be. […] With Outsiders, any actual narrative set by Young Justice Season 1 is over. By their own standards the Team have lost, and lost entirely.

The meta-narrative of Young Justice Animated is that of a show that started with a promising initial season and strong sense of narrative identity, only to discard every part of that identity.  With Invasion the show discarded its original characterisations, themes and ideologies; replacing them with contradictory and often antithetical ones.  Outsiders would then shed even the surface trappings of its aesthetic (in favour of the more generic “modern DC” art-style) and mission-based narrative structure.  There is nothing left, save for some superficial proper nouns and call-back references: the textbook definition of an In Name Only Sequel.

I didn’t bother with Phantoms (and am frankly a little artistically insulted by its existence) because I knew it was doomed from the start to be a narrative stillbirth.  Having actively abandoned its original identity, Young Justice was left desperately scrambling to forge a new one, by clawing at the one thing it had left: people’s nostalgic attachment to the Season 1 iterations of the cast.  But this could never work because every season since has been engaged in a performative pretense of not acknowledging the character-breaking contradictions and hypocrisies forced upon the original cast by the poor writing decisions.  Phantoms would have to thread an impossible needle: wanting to be about the “journey” of the original cast for nostalgia reasons, while not being able to acknowledge that the last two seasons (and attaché comics) have resulted in all of them either actively failing or being tragically soft-locked out of their explicit character arcs without breaking that kayfabe of performative ignorance.  And, in trying to tell a story without engaging with that story's content or how broken it had become, what would they have left but to fall back yet again on canonical filler, sidequests and references held loosely together by contrivance? 

It could only ever be a zombie-fic of itself: having long-since concluded or abandoned any remaining character or plot threads, driven forward solely by the stream-of-consciousness compulsive-writing of a production team desperate to remain present, relevant and profitable.  And from the feedback I’ve heard from the general community and fandom friends who kept watching, it seems like Phantoms did indeed pull down the curtain on that empty, directionless, hollow-automaton-filled narrative for a lot of people.

As for Greg Weisman himself, while I agree that he is a particularly poor character-writer, I will respectfully but firmly disagree that he’s otherwise decent.  I think the fact that we have to caveat “he’s a decent writer” with the condition “so long as he’s surrounded by a team of strong editors and directors to keep him from being awful” kind of reveals that he isn’t.   I also don’t really accept the premise that the main fault lies with the people around him for not stopping that.  They certainly haven’t helped but he’s a grown adult who can make his own decisions. Enablers don’t generally induce behaviours; they simply amplify or become complicit in the behaviours that are already there.

In the video Plagiarism and You(tube), Hbomberguy did a great job of laying out the difference between “honest mistakes” – which can be easily cleared up by good-faith apologies and explanations – and “dishonest behaviour” – where the person(s) is aware that what they are doing is not appropriate and falls back on reputation-protecting deflections and “non-apologies” to avoid consequences when caught.  Weisman would not so-frequently disrespect his colleagues’ work with contradictions, or write patterns of misogyny, queerphobia, casual racism/ableism and abuse apologism into his stories if he did not fundamentally feel entitled to do so, was not comfortable and in agreement with those beliefs, or did not think he could get away with it.  And the way he has routinely responded to even gentle, good-faith comments by fans expressing frustration/confusion with inconsistent characterisation/structure indicates someone who knows he has done the wrong thing but resents being questioned or held accountable.  And then we see him continuing the same behaviours.  A “decent writer” should not need an editor to hold their hand and explain why directly contracting explicitly-stated characterisation is bad practice.  A “good ally” should not need someone to tell them that disproportionately subjecting queer/non-white characters to shock-value violence, writing minority characters to be dirty/dangerous/less valid in their identities, erasing/demonising/misgendering AFAB trans and bisexual identities, rewriting strong female characters to need motherhood or men to “tell them who they are”, writing gay men to be secretly misogynistic/racist, and framing victims as being equally responsible for their abuse is offensive.  All of which he has either directly done or tacitly allowed under his lead.  Multiple times.  Across multiple series.

These are not isolated incidents of “good-faith mistakes” from a newcomer learning the ropes (if they were, it wouldn’t bother me like this).  Weisman has had multiple seasons - multiple franchises even - and decades to show himself to be the kind of sincere ally and visionary artist of integrity that myself and his fans wanted him to be… and that he has so benefited from presenting himself as.  He has chosen not to. Say what you want about their stories, but you can’t claim that marginalised creators like ND Stevenson, Rebecca Sugar, Dana Terrace and allies like Neil Gaiman didn’t push back hard against their own publishers and make a lot of careful compromises in order to tell those stories in a way they felt was respectful. Weisman is in a very privileged position, with a resume that carries a decent amount of clout. He could have held himself to the creative standards he publicly expresses; could have worked improve his craft, could have examined his own biases and actually learned from the communities his stories speak about/over.  But he didn’t – because obviously it's easier and more comfortable to keep being lazy, keep relying on his colleagues to carry him, to not question his own biases/privileges and then lie when caught.  And with the money he makes, and all the second chances and new jobs he keeps getting handed, what incentive does he have to change that behaviour? 

So, personally I don’t buy his attempts to position himself as an UwU Nice Guy Ally whose haters are taking him out of context and whose nasty publishers keep forcing him to do incoherent bigotry.  He’s a grown-up, who can own his own behaviour.  And, even with a generous reading, this is at best the behaviour of a fair-weather sell-out who is willing to abandon his principles at the slightest hint of pressure from above.  That is not what respect looks like.  I wanted to give him good faith, but in light of all this, I find I can no longer trust him to keep his word or be honest about his intentions.

This is kind of the other reason why I choose not to support or engage with YJ Phantoms (or the revival in general): on top of being utterly disinterested, I just don’t want to incentivise this kind of creative behaviour with more money or attention.  I also can’t ignore what could be a pattern where Weisman makes grand promises that he likely never has a plan or intent to fulfill, then deliberately leaves holes/timeskips/inconsistencies in his narratives in order to generate ongoing demand for separate-purchase side content which promises to “fill those gaps”… but which never does because there isn’t actually a plan to facilitate that (thus creating an endless cycle of demand and profit).  To me that cuts a little too close to the potential for a privileged creator to be exploiting their clout and the good-faith belief of their fanbase in order to grift those fans out of their time and money.  I don’t find that acceptable.

So, yeah.  Not to deploy the GIF again but:

It'll be a big, fat doughnut on YJ Phantoms content from me 🍩. Sorry!

[425599167]

Fallout: New Vegas is all about rebuilding society in the Mojave, and the three given factions all attempt to do so by recreating the past. The NCR models itself on the now-destroyed United States, with all the problems involved. Caesar created the Legion in the image of Rome because he believed it could best thrive in the wasteland. Mr. House is arguably the most forward-thinking with his focus on technology and eventual interplanetary travel, but he still rebuilt New Vegas from his nostalgic recollections of the city. Building on the past isn't wrong, the problem is these three factions don't appear to be learning from anything that happened.

NCR characters never directly acknowledge that they're following the example of a society that destroyed itself. Caesar criticizes them for this, believing the republic functioned best while under the quasi-monarchy of Aradesh and Tandi. But Caesar ignores how 1) Rome also fell and 2) he's confronting the same problem as a brain tumor is on the verge of killing him. Even if you treat his tumor, he's still mortal. Caesar was given an education, and his knowledge of strategy and history let him build the Legion, which he then made anti-intellectual and revisionist. The society he created cannot replace him, and will fragment when he dies. House is more contemptuous of the pre-war world, but he still brought it back, and specifically assigned the Omertas with the role of ruthless mobsters who will kill anyone in their way. Apparently he thought that was a good idea.

This extends into the DLCs, too. Elijah plans to use the Sierra Madre to wipe the slate clean and restore the Brotherhood of Steel to their position of unrivaled power, with himself back as Elder. Every day, Joshua Graham feels the pain of being burned. The Think Tank scientists are all stuck in loops, stuck in the past, stuck with their flaws centuries after believing they overcame their humanity. For all my grievances with Lonesome Road, it fits the pattern, as Ulysses saw a new society forming, saw it burn, and couldn't move on. If you let Ulysses live, he has similar criticisms of the NCR, Legion, and House. They're all idealized recreations, like the Vera Keyes hologram. Let go, begin again.

Benny may be a weird mix of dangerous and absurd, but he contrasts the other factions well. He jumped at the chance to join House, fought his tribe's previous leader to make it happen, then planned to take down House, too. House dismisses Benny as not understanding complex technologies due to his tribal upbringing, but he built a computer lab attached to his suite and studies technology as best he can. Benny doesn't want to relive the past, he wants to move forward, he wants something better. You can kill him and take his role, or, when facing certain death at Caesar's hands, he'll explain his vision and ask you to see it through.

After replaying everything, though the other endings have understandable support, I think the Independent route fits the story's themes best, the only one where something definitively new is being built. The Courier isn't remaking anything. Part of this is simply open-ended roleplaying, allowing the player to imagine the character's completed goal. If you choose one of the other three, the Courier can work to correct their faction's flaws and counter the destructive nostalgia affecting them. The Independent ending isn't necessarily the "best" for the Mojave, the Courier's morality and a hundred other decisions determine that, but it is the most compelling conclusion to the story.

[blitzwhore]

I just saw Blitzø get called Stolas stockholm victim I can't with this fandom anymore😭

😂 As outrageously incorrect and stupid as that take is, I'm going to go on a tangent here. I hope you don't mind.

I think every fandom has annoying people with awfully terrible takes in it. People with zero media literacy. People who hatewatch. People who think they're entitled to the exact show they would've wanted, which has nothing to do with the actual, existing show.

This is especially true for queer media, and especially true for queer cartoons. (Hi, yes. I was active in the Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Voltron, and She-Ra fandoms when those shows were airing, respectively. I've seen some stuff). Some people just can't handle queer cartoons, period. If the queer characters/ships are soft and wholesome, they're infantilising and boring, and if they're complex and nuanced and actually have conflict, they're abusive and problematic. You'll hear the same recycled arguments over and over again. Like, the shit some people are saying about Blitz and Stolas after The Full Moon? Is literally almost word-for-word what they said about Catra and Adora post-season 3 of She-Ra (and even at the end of the show).

Here's the thing, though! Those people and their bad takes are not what I want to think about what I think about a fandom. Those aren't the people I want to call the fans. They don't deserve that title. Not when so many other people are out there dedicating their time to making gifs and art and meta posts, and writing fic, and commenting/reblogging to show support, and sliding into people's DMs to scream and squee together about a thing they love.

At the end of the day, "fandom" is just a lot of people each doing their own thing. Which people you engage with and allow to stay within your line of sight will determine your fandom experience. Fandom can be a huge, convoluted, online space full of people who are constantly arguing with one another and whose takes make you unfathomably angry... Or it can be you and your 5 friends and mutuals who scream gleefully at one another in 2-note posts. You can't control what others post online, but you can control your engagement with it.

How? Well, here's what I personally do to avoid getting upset by people's stupid opinions online:

Filter 'critical' and 'anti' tags (eg. #anti stolitz #anti vivziepop #Helluva Boss critical #HB critical #vivziepop critical). Many people actually do tag their critical posts because they know it's the respectful thing to do!

If I come across a post that has one or more of those tags, obviously, I don't click through to see it under any circumstances.

If I stumble across a stranger's untagged post with hate/criticism that upsets me: I stop reading and BLOCK. Immediately. I don't look back. I don't finish reading. I don't engage. I just block block block. I <3 the block button, seriously.

If I feel my mind reeling from a bad take I just came across: I take a step back, close my phone, breathe, remember life is beautiful sometimes. Go back and watch an episode I really like. Clean my living space a little. Vent about it to a friend (but only if I really need to, because if not, I'd rather not dwell on it).

If I'm starting to feel the need to reply to someone's bad take (directly or via my own post), I instead make the decision to channel that energy into making fandom posts out of love. (I don't do this just with fandom. If I see something transphobic online, I usually react by reblogging a bunch of trans art or trans positivity posts on my main, for example). I like to think of it as putting some positivity out into the world to compensate for the negativity I just saw. So, for example, if I see someone shitting on my blorbo, I may make a silly post just saying how much I love blorbo. Or I'll make (or draft) a post about how interesting I find some of blorbo's actions. Or reblog another person's positive/interesting post about blorbo.

And finally, I stay the hell away from Twitter. Or at least, if I go on Twitter, I try my best to avoid any tweet that has text in it instead of just art. Even the people who have good opinions spend too much time arguing with the people who have bad opinions on there. I don't want to see people's bad takes! No, not even while reading founded and perfectly articulated criticism of those bad takes! So I just limit my time on Twitter. And again, if someone is putting bad takes on my TL (even if it is to counter them), I unfollow and block as needed.

All this to say, yes, it really fucking sucks to read the opinions of people who don't understand and who hate the characters and ships and worlds you love. Gosh it's the worst. But you can curate your fandom experience. You can focus on the things you can control. You have the power to decide if your fandom experience is draining or fun!

And because I don't know how to finish this, here, have a Stolitz kiss to heal you:

We will keep winning and there's nothing the haters can do about it. 😌

[eddwardharrison]

MOON HOW MANY BRAINCELLS DO YOU HAVE??

TSAMS RANT/ NOT HATE / ALL LOVE FOR THE SHOW

Moon, moon. Moon. Look at me. Look at me with your eyes. Answer something for me. ARE YOU STUPID?? YOU CLAIM TO BE SO SMART AND YET YOUR LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS HAVE RENDERED YOU THE STUPIDEST CHARACTER ON THE SHOW.

He never seems to learn basic emotional structures and it angers me beyond belief. You have Ruin AT YOUR DOORSTEP saying “Hey I’m going to help the world just for a minute by roasting my blueprints over a flame” and then also saying “Hey, yeah, so…if I tell you anything…I’m going to be killed.” AND MOON’S RESPONSE TO THIS IS “OKAY CRYPTIC ASSHOLE.” SHUT UPPPP AND LISTEENNN RUIN IS IN DANGER, HE’S BEING HONEST WITH YOU, HE /WANTS/ TO HELP, HE COULD BE SUCH A FUCKING ALLY AND YOU AREN’T DOING SHIIIIT WITH THAT. COME ON!!! Eclipse got this SAME TREATMENT WITH NEW MOON WHEN HE BEGGED HIM FOR HIS HELP.

Moon’s are just apathetic anti-empathy asshole and I cannot be proven wrong. (I do not actually think this its just an angry statement)

I understand Ruin is a sore spot but you have been shown time and time again that all Villains have a soft spot and they have secondary motives that are hidden away behind their villain ego. Eclipse wanted to have control over his own life, Killcode wanted a second chance to help people, Bloodmoon didn’t want to be used anymore, Ruin is just trying to survive, Solstice wants to liberate Sun from his 2 year torment, Nexus just wanted his brother back, EVERYONE HAS A SECONDARY MOTIVE. And thus for, EVERYONE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD AND MAYBE EVEN TURNED AROUND TO THEIR BETTER SIDE. ECLIPSE DID (no thanks to ANYONE except for Earth.) and he was the OG villain that tormented them for HALF THE SHOW! He, as of now, is the ONLY character that came 🤌 THIS CLOSE to the most RADICAL change TSAMS has ever faced (See Lord Eclipse for example) And if ECLIPSE turned around, with Sun and Moon’s help, EVERYONE COULD’VE BEEN TURNED AROUND. Solstice doesn’t even have a DARK MOTIVE! He just wants to save Sun from all the pain he endures every day! Nexus just went emo because he’s mourning his brother which is VALID??? His entire life has just been not his to control and so seeing the only thing Nexus chose to forever care about get stripped from him IS TOTALLY TRAUMATIZING AND A LITTLE VALID FOR A WHOLE MENTAL SNAP.

Maybe if Solar GOT OFF HIS ASS and DID SOMETHING ABOUT THIS instead of trying to KILL HIM, Nexus could be good too! And don’t get me wrong, I was so happy when he tried…but my smile DROPPED when he decided “We have to kill him.” NOOOOO DAMN IT NOOOOO THAT’S NOT HOW IT WORKS NOOOOOOOO!!!! YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF TRAUMATIZED ROBOTS AND YOU NEED TO HELP EACH OTHER LIKE ONNEESSS!!

ugh but back on topic

Ruin is the most honest character in the show. I’m being so serious right now. Yes, I am holding a straight face. BECAUSE HE IS. He only lied for months on end because he was forced into lying to survive, but his intentions are all genuine and he just wants to stay alive and not die like all of his friends did before him. He is a sole survivor and he cannot let his guard down during his whole “Virus Infection” act. Ever since he was “fixed”, he had a reason to not act anymore and he could show his full genuine side while still lying because HE’S STILL VERY MUCH IN DANGER! Not only that but his vile acts like DESTROYING 5K UNIVERSES was in the name of saving TRILLIONS OF OTHERS! Yes, it’s a heavy price, but those tough decisions are things people with that kind of power have to make.

Examples: Old moon sacrificing himself for Killcode, Sun blasting Eclipse at the price of his body and almost his life, Sun trying to kill Eclipse that one time to save his family, Nexus deciding to nearly kill his family for the sake of Solar, Solstice protecting Ruin from Nexus, etc.

I’m not saying Ruin is necessarily a good person, when you make those decisions and you act the way you need to to survive, you aren’t going to be a pacifist. But I have confidence in saying that not a single person in this show is a saint or completely innocent…other than dazzle and jack ‘o moon… (I love you guys <33) But putting them all together to compare and contrast, Ruin is a far better person than all of these characters simply because his intentions are pure, and it’s simply to stay alive and often times also help others stay alive. When he first studied eliminating universes, he knew Solar would be sacrificed. He says he tried EVERYTHING he could to prevent this. He looked up how to avoid it, if it was possible to avoid it, even if there was a way to bring him back after death. He found nothing, and had to make the decision to go through with his plans anyways, because he HAD to.

(also I find it funny everyone was so caught up in trying to bring him back and running into dead ends, crying and sobbing pver it with no leads…and then Eclipse in the back goes “hey guys so Solar is coming back…you’re welcome. I’m dipping now. Bye.”)

Throughout following Ruin’s lore…and from experience of depicting and eating away at psychoanalyzing ECLIPSE of all characters, I am confident in knowing what I know about Ruin. EVER SINCE HE WAS CURED I KNEW THAT BITCH WAS LYING!!! AND THEN ECLIPSE KNEW IT TOO. AND I WAS LIKE “YEAH YEAH ECLIPSE BEAT HIS ASS GET IT GET IT GET IT!!!” And thus for I am prideful in what I know for a (opinionated) fact

Ruin is completely telling the truth right now, he has always wanted to and he always wanted to try. He’s tired of acting but he has no other choice. He wants to help, but his job isn’t done. His motive right now? I’m really not sure. Maybe he’s destroying all evidence of his knowledge as we see with his blueprints before allowing himself to die, or maybe he has a bigger purpose.

My predictions are very iffy, but this is something to think about: Maybe because of what Eclipse did for Solar, he may now believe his own universe could be saved. Just an idea, though.

Ruin cares for the celestial family, he really does. It more than likely reminds him of the bonds he lost. And in such a mourned idea, he has grown attached to them from afar. He’d hate to see them be torn apart as he was once was.

So…Moon…if you’d kindly…think….with that…big, BIG brain of yours….I would love if you developed some empathy for once and maybe tried to help Ruin. Maybe share some of your “brotherly love” you so generously let JUST Sun have. Just a thought….or…y’know…maybe you could just get another “what if ther was a Good Ruin in VRCHAT?!” episode. Because that seems to be what Moon’s do best. Replace rather than fix.

Hahah. I’m hilarious.

Fuck you, Moon.

[problematicbyler]

an incomplete history of byler sexuality discourse

and how widespread fandom purity culture and homophobia created a flourishing nsfw sub-fandom

some may call me chronically online, but i call myself a fandom historian. i've been a member of some fandom or another since i was about thirteen, and i've always been interested in the rise and fall of fandom discourse. though it's annoying in the moment it's happening, i think it's very interesting and telling to look back at the overall arcs and trends.

so, let's talk about the many times the fandom has cancelled people over byler sexuality, and how each level of "hornygate" has contributed to the growth of the proship/byler smut community.

(i use the term proship in its intended definition, which is to say, not "problematic shipping," but rather being pro-fiction, anti-censorship, and anti-harassment; it is a position of believing the fiction one creates or consumes doesn't reflect a person's real life beliefs or morals.)

i have been a stranger things lover since season 1, a byler shipper since season 2, and an active part of the byler community on tumblr since season 4. i'll mostly be focusing on post-season 4 discourse because that's what i've really been most present for and that was the period that really marked a turning point in the fandom.

seasons 1-3

i wasn't as plugged into fandom discourse back in the day, but the broad strokes of early discourse was mostly thinly veiled homophobia. claiming that it was sexualization to assume will or mike could be queer despite blatant queer coding, implying that analysts were no better than will's bullies to assume his sexuality, etc etc. people were criticized for shipping byler at all because they were so young (but these people naturally had no issue with mileven, so, again, homophobia).

season 4 (may-july 2022)

now, season 4. this is where byler was brought to the attention of a lot more fans, and stranger things' viewership reached wider than ever. the byler fandom on tumblr booms from 4k to 100k over the course of season 4's release.

this brought a lot of new people who have never been in fandoms before, people who never learned don't like don't read or your kink is not my kink and that's okay or ship and let ship.

or, a lot of times, people who had only been in fandoms for celebrities and bands, which tend to have different rules when it comes to shipping and sex, because they're real people. hence a lot of young antis' conflation of character with their actors, but that's a different rant.

so with a rapidly growing fandom, a show ripe for analysis, and the art of media literacy bleeding out on the ground in front of us, the hellscape of the fandom post-season 4 in 2022 followed as such:

august 2022

jo/kendra gate where two extremely popular analysts were called out for "sexualizing" byler while being adults (early to mid 20s). they were dogpiled and harassed because one of them said that will was giving mike "bedroom eyes" (he was) and one of them said mike was checking will out (he was):

pyshiie and moogate. the proship side of byler twitter rose up and started to divide itself. i'll credit my own joining-the-dark-side to pyshiie and moo, formerly barbjeanisms, who were two popular artists called out respectively for sexualizing byler and generally being proship. similarly, people were called out and criticized for even following or interacting with those accounts after this discourse.

september 2022

hosegate is the most famous across the byler fandom, and it's when some users proposed that the scene in the pizzeria uses phallic imagery to imply mike turns will on (or vice versa) and a lot of people thought that was too sexualized, it caused a divide, and more fanpolicing, etc.

october 2022

the artist noodlesandtea was harassed for having liked arguably nsfw bakudeku art (they were shirtless, it wasn't explicit) on the same account where they draw characters who are minors. they also drew byler kissing, which was a problem for some? anyone who defended them was also called a pedo, naturally. noodles also got called out for having drawn fanart of the popular e-rated fanfiction....

the unmarked mixtape. a massively popular sequel to a massively popular fic, the red envelope. for a long time, those were the most widely recommended byler fics, but it very soon became taboo to even admit to reading them because the sequel has explicit sex and the first has them making out.

sonnet116 gate is another fic that was beloved and then rapidly turned on by byler twitter because it had implied, fade to black sex scenes. it was about them hooking up but had no smut. and even the non explicit idea of that was offensive and pedophilic of anyone who dared read it. around this time, another fic was called out for having will moaning into a kiss, because writing a teenager moaning was also offensive and pedophilic.

i'm told i (jana / troublebyler gate?) may have influenced a lot of people joining twitter for byler smut after writing illicit affairs and some other smutty oneshots in rapid succession, seeing a lot of byler shippers moving to the proship side of the fandom just to discuss and write byler smut. i also hosted a little fandom gossip column on my curiouscat where a lot of folks confessed to reading or writing smut while pretending to be "normal" in the "main" fandom. it basically revealed/implied that a large amount of popular authors, artists, and accounts were secretly pro byler smut, and that many proshippers were "undercover" in the "main" fandom.

the blocklist era. around this time the "main" fandom also created a "st twt safety" account on twitter which was basically targeted harassment and mass reporting of proshippers. the account does warn of some genuine bad actors sending gore images via dms, being racist, etc. but by far, the majority of it was simply calling out proshippers for sexualizing byler, sharing screenshots they thought were "gross," which only resulted in spreading nsfw content to unintended audiences of minors that likely never would have seen the nsfw accounts otherwise.

november 2022

practice kissing gate is where a handful of popular fic writers were criticized for writing practice kissing fics (such as undertow), and in fact, any amount of byler making out, because adults "fantasizing" about teenagers kissing was "gross."

the proship corner of st twitter continued to grow a lot thanks to so many lovely fan creators, all of whom i couldn't possibly list but who have done a lot for the community! but we continued to get bombarded with endless callout posts and block lists and witch hunting. people were unabashedly policing people's following lists and likes on twitter to call people out for engaging with any questionable users or content. (if you search byler twitter now you can still see the wreckage of so many witch hunts.)

onward through 2023

over time things have mostly calmed down, or at least enough of the folks on "opposing sides" of the fandom have mutually blocked each other to survive. this is likely also influenced by the hiatus leaving the fandom to quiet down, the collapse of twitter-turned-x having many users migrate their fandom content elsewhere, and the mass exodus of many people from the fandom for political reasons. if i had to guess, the ramp-up to season 5 will see all new conflict as more "casual" fans return to the fandom. but who's to say.

which brings us to now:

spicybylerpolls gate, wherein the byler tag on tumblr collectively had to reckon with the fact that people want byler to have sex and it doesn't make them creeps to vote in silly polls about it. people criticized the blog for being overly sexualized and pure fantasy versus more "acceptable" analysis, with many making sweeping moralizing statements about anyone who dared interact with the blog.

this has kicked off tumblr's own sort of horny revolution in encouraging folks to be more open on here, whereas previously we were confined to our corner of twitter.

so in summary:

people over and over again put fan creators on a pedestal just to turn on them when they're "betrayed" when a person's views did not one-to-one line up to theirs.

teens in the fandom especially were "betrayed" by adults in the fandom they thought were "safe" (and i would argue that self proclaimed "safe" adults in fandom are far more dangerous to real life minors than the proship fans who sexualize fictional characters but dont interact with real teens)

most everything has been fueled by widespread ageism at any fan over the age of 18, widespread homophobia and puritanism in regards to exploring queer sexuality or discussing sex at all

so much hate has been over what are essentially "thought crimes", with people watering down serious accusations like pedophilia into a petty insult over disagreements on fiction

and the cycle repeats itself endlessly until things devolve back into witch hunting and policing peoples following and likes etc

the best part to me is that every single cancellation just resulted in more people flooding to the horny side of the fandom to post more freely and without shame. every time a person on twitter posted screenshots of my account to say how "gross" it was (while simultaneously exposing my 18+ nsfw content to their audience of minors) i had a surge in followers. the more the fandom squeezes, the more people slip from its hold.

but that doesn't make the harassment campaigns okay, and it doesn't mean the fandom didn't do massive amounts of harm to real people in an attempt to protect fictional characters.

my hope going forward is that the fandom can coexist as a community where people don't have to like or agree with certain content to treat the people who create it with respect and dignity. and i hope that, while this side of the fandom might grow more on tumblr, we don't have to relive the same old discourses and go through the same cycles we went through on twitter.

and remember kids, the block button is both free and fun.

[gloriousburden]

I’ve been trying to keep this blog about appreciating OG Loki instead of any negativity, but goodness is the series the bane of my existence. Imagine looking up your favorite character, and having to scroll past every result that comes up.

Imagine the only part of the fandom/community you can enjoy being a small side of Tumblr away from the main tags.

You cannot relate to anyone on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, etc..

A subdivision on Tumblr of a fandom is all you have!

Finding decent Loki merch is hard enough as it is, but now you need to look out for hourglasses, and the colors orange and brown.

This is all because of the series. This is why us anti series blogs/OG Loki fans are so “cruel” and “evil.” This is why it’s so serious to us. It’s weird to feel alienated where you should feel like you belong.

Many of us lost the fandom that we once knew and loved. It’s not just about the series or how Loki is miswritten, its about us losing the connection we once easily had with others. You shouldn’t have to constantly explain yourself to others who are supposed to be in the same fandom as you.

I share a fandom with people who don’t understand the source that spawned the fandom in the first place. I share a fandom with people who’s only knowledge (of the character we’re all supposed to know and love) is ship fanart, fanfiction, fan theories, and headcanons. I share a fandom with people who take lighthearted Tumblr posts from years ago that jokingly state that Loki is around 16/17 years old seriously and as canon. I share a fandom with people who refuse to think critically.

It’s not just a fictional character or movies. It’s something we are passionate about, and it’s hard to share those passions with others who do not understand a fraction of any of it.

I’m very grateful for this side of Tumblr and I hope that one day we could have our fandom back. You shouldn’t have to make an entire subdivision of a fandom in order to see things about the characters ORIGINAL and DEFINITIVE appearances.

Fuck the series as well as anyone who groups OG Loki with the variant. Makes things a thousand times harder. I can’t even watch edits because you’ll think it’s an edit of TDW Loki… but then here comes clips of that variant. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Girl if I have to see that clip of the variant bent over a table one more time… I think i’m gonna lose it.

Certain sides of Pinterest, old Tumblr posts/blogs that have been inactive since 2014, and Google’s/YouTube’s “Before:Year” feature my beloveds. Blogs on dedicated to OG Loki my beloveds. Thor 2011, The Avengers, and Thor The Dark World my beloveds. My oomfs/mutuals my beloveds.

[readychilledwine]

One this Trend is going to break my heart.

Two I'm using it to call out something really fast because I'm re going through ACOMAF and ACOWAR notes for Bound by Fate and Kissed by Fire.

There's my Rhys critical statement for the day 🫠

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Smut within the next hour or so.

Ps- let's remember I am not anti any characters, I am, however, critical of the author who wrote them. If you're going to use something as a plot device to drive something in the books, it needs to be consistent. It makes zero sense that Rhys could name her High Lady and force his people and every other High Lord to just accept it, but he can't fix illyria.

[suzukiblu]

I love your Kara. I’m so used to her being a one note racist when it comes to Kon-angst. Don’t get me wrong. That’s entertaining for easy angst. But it’s never criticized by anybody. How is she still on the league?

It’s nice to see her be a supportive figure who is worried for him.

Ty! ❤️ I will say I haven't read too much of Kara in the comics (Mae and Linda were my OG Supergirl back in the day and I just vastly preferred them when I was doing most of my reading), so I mostly got her vibe and backstory through the cartoons and fandom osmosis and then extrapolated a few things I hadn't seen explored about her much IN fandom for the takes on her I've written. But like, I've only really seen her be, like, REALLY anti-clone in the New 52, so I don't like to characterize her too strongly by any anti-clone sentiments even if I do sometimes include a bit of them underscoring what she's thinking/doing. Like, more like the kind of low-level ingrained bias you get from growing up in a culture with some shitty beliefs that you haven't ever had a real reason to examine than anything genuinely hateful or anything you actually REALLY believe yourself, if that makes sense.

Also lbr, it's just more interesting to me to make Kara-related issues be things like culture clash and apocalyptic levels of grief and rage that most people around her don't understand and kinda just ignore and, like, an overall frustration with other people not having the cultural context to REALLY understand what she's saying/thinking/doing, a lot of the time. Like, this is a character with a dead planet and a dead SPECIES who if things had gone to plan probably would've been "Superwoman" LONG before Clark grew up enough to even develop powers at all, much less be SuperMAN, and who SHOULD be older and more mature/experienced than all of these superpowered adults that she got dumped in the middle of who historically do NOT do all that well with surprise teenagers while also having the possibility of growing up STRONGER than Clark but simultaneously getting shit on by both the narrative and said superpowered adults, and also she's just never seemed as integrated into the hero community as, like, Dick or Babs or Kon or Tim or whoever else. Like she's just that LITTLE bit disconnected from them all, it tends to feel like to me. So there's a lot to mine there, character-wise! Like way more than just one-note clone-racism!

Anyway tl;dr: I got a lil' carried away there but I love the whole entire concept of Kara and I always wanna write her being MUCH more complicated than I usually see her getting handled. I wanna do our girl some justice!!

[kitkatopinions]

When people talk about how "rwde is mad that RWBY subverts expectations" I wonder how much of what's considered subverting expectations is actually ignoring set up, doing things out of nowhere, and actually doing a popular and very much so expected thing.

Like don't get me wrong, I do think sometimes people have ideas for what RWBY should've been and then think that it was more set up then it actually was. Like, people who took Blake saying she grew up outside the kingdoms and had to learn to fight to mean "I am an orphan and spent my whole life on the streets" that then got mad when Blake had pretty big house and parents. I might agree that RWBY perhaps shouldn't have given Blake the privileges they gave her specifically because of how they decided to use her to tell the other Faunus to stop being mean to their oppressors (though I'd sooner throw that part out than get rid of Blake being the daughter of a leader with a big house,) but I don't think it was pulling the rug out from under people the way some people do.

However, then you have things like Adam, where some people in RWDE are saying "he was set up as this interesting character who would be an ideological foil for Blake that cared about the cause and his people, and it felt like he'd be used as a way to talk about the injustice in the world of Remnant and then was reduced to nothing but a girl-obsessed hate sink two dimensional incel" and some anti-rwde people are hitting back with "you're just upset that the edgy bad-boy isn't getting redeemed, you just wanted Adam to be Zuko, but RWBY subverted your expectations by not redeeming him and instead giving Ilia the redemption arc, and giving Blake and Yang the sympathy."

And there's a lot to unpack, there. Including the fact that redemption arcs and sympathy aren't a zero-sum game in fiction and as someone who loves both redemption arcs and when characters get justified sympathy, it's frustrating when people act like there isn't enough redemption to go around as if it's a pie and Adam getting a piece of it means Ilia doesn't get any.

But more to the point, A. I at least have zero interest in Adam being a Zuko, because so much of Zuko's redemption arc hinged on Zuko confronting his and his people's role in oppression. Adam is oppressed. Zuko was scarred by an abusive father and banished from home, Adam was branded like cattle by a supremacist who he was working for as a child laborer. Although both are incredibly sympathetic, they're incredibly different. Whether or not the writers were trying to harken back to Zuko (which I believe they were,) they seemed to completely miss the differences between the two characters, and also deciding to 'subvert expectations' when the circumstances they themselves wrote were so different is a bad look at best. As if they couldn't have 'subverted expectations' with a different character like Cardin or Jacques or even Roman Torchwick, that wasn't a member of their in-universe oppressed minority group.

B. A member of an oppressed people group that's been hurt by the oppressors of the world and yet spends their time committing horrible cruel acts that force the heroes to stand against them is not some never before heard of thing. In fact, it's very common. A revolutionary supposedly fighting for equality that's actually hurting the people he's supposedly fighting for is a pretty regular every day thing. People have literally been criticizing how it's misused and usually racist propaganda (usually written by white people) since long before RWBY was even concepted. Adam isn't a proper subversion of anything, in my opinion, because you can't do the common thing and then say you subverted expectations by not doing the less common thing. Which in this case, the less common thing would actually be to make the oppressed person who had been branded and was shown fighting for the rights of his people to actually be a nuanced and complicated character who does deserve sympathy and could be redeemed.

C. It might just be me, but if you're going to 'subvert expectations' then the thing you write instead of the expectation had better be pretty freaking good. Because sometimes the expectation is there because it just works well. Like in a group of heroes, you expect them to develop a friendship. If people want to subvert expectations by instead having them hate each other, the story better be golden because the reason people tend to expect friendship is that it's usually much easier to connect to character dynamics when they actually like each other. If you're going to write a story where hope is a central theme, but you want to subvert expectations by making a sympathetic and cool character with a personal connection to the mains look like they're gonna get redeemed but then instead make them just the worst person imaginable, then you better do it super well and make him instead a great well-rounded nuanced and fun to hate villain. So not only do we have to pay attention to why the writers shouldn't have gone that route for Adam, we gotta look at the quality of what they did with it, and... Nope. It sucked. Adam was paper thin and horribly voice acted and honestly if he'd never attacked in V6 nothing would've really changed because it had no real consequences that couldn't have been better achieved in a different way, and introducing his branding scar in the same scene he got stabbed was purely for shock value, and nothing came of his character, and idk if Ruby ever even learned his name on screen or Weiss knew anything about him, and it was so badly done. If you're going to 'subvert expectations,' you gotta do it well, or people are always going to want the thing they expected in the beginning instead. Unfortunately, the RWBY writers didn't write Adam well at all. So I for one can't blame anyone for saying 'honestly, I wish they'd gone with the other thing.'

D. Back to 'sometimes when people say subverting expectations, they really mean ignored set up.' With Adam in particular, I do believe that he was always meant to be a bad guy who did bad cruel things from the very first trailer he appeared in, but that doesn't at all mean that set up wasn't ignored. From Blake talking about him as a mentor, to her crediting him with the Grimm masks, to the ideological differences, to Cinder literally having to threaten and coerce him into working with her on screen, the set up indicated that at the very least, this would be a complicated and nuanced 'villain with a point' and that point was going to matter and be addressed. The set up was that Cinder's coercion was going to be addressed and would matter. The set up was that Blake's complicated feelings about Adam and her desire to help her people and her later established care and compassion for Ilia (who may I remind people is at least just as bad as seasons 1-3 Adam in at least attempt if not execution,) would lead somewhere when it came to Adam. The set up was that seeing a child laborer literally branded on the face with the logo of WEISS'S COMPANY would lead to big discussions and some sort of recognition of just how bad the current system is and how bad the SDC itself as always been. And instead Weiss as far as we know never even heard about it and continued on being angry that she wasn't set to be CEO and calling her grandfather a hero and Blake was completely disinterested in attending a rally against Jacques Schnee and teased Weiss about her family owning half of Atlas. Like ???

E. Doing things out of nowhere is also not subverting expectations. In regards to Adam, this looks like randomly making him totally obsessed with Blake enough that he stalks her for weeks when he literally let her go repeatedly before that. Doing things out of nowhere is making Adam not care an ounce about his people in order to do whatever Salem says when we saw him reject Cinder outright and need to be coerced with threats to his people. Those aren't subverting expectations, that's just doing one thing and then retconning the character to do something out of character.

This post turned out to be mostly about Adam, but there's tons of examples of this, like people saying RWDE are mad that the writers 'subverted expectations' by making Ironwood turn evil when we were sitting there like 'the fact that he wasn't evil was subverting expectations in the first place! And they had to throw V3 out the window to get where they were in V8! And it was super badly done!' People just throw around 'subverting expectations' when it comes to RWBY because it sounds a lot better than 'flying by the seats of their pants doing whatever pops into their heads with no care or consideration towards set-up or emotional pay off' but that's it, that's what the RWBY writers seem to do. When I expect something to happen in RWBY, it's because it's the natural thing that makes sense to happen, and in their supposed effort to 'subvert expectations,' the writers instead made a show with no consequences where you can't expect the writers to make anything that happens matter and you can't trust what's in the show because the writers might say sike and retcon it. It's endlessly frustrating to be like 'hey was any of what was in the show going to matter' and then have people say 'you're just mad because RWBY subverted your expectations.' RWBY subverted my expectation that the show would be good, how about that?

You know, if the show actually was interested in subverting expectations, Jaune wouldn't be in the show nearly as much and he'd be more gender-non-conforming and be a support healer role instead of the man now with like twenty years of experience on the mains who always has his trauma get plenty of focus and gets away with screaming in Ruby's face that she's responsible for all bad things while he mourns the three different women that were shoved in the fridge for the sake of his character development. They could've started with making the white straight cis able-bodied not-faunus man actually not be a basic underdog-protagonist turned Michael-Scarn-esque tragic hero that Weiss lusts after, but whoops. Like what am I supposed to think, that they're super interested in subverting expectations for the sake of women when Jaune is right there guzzling up screen time? Nah babes.

(Before someone comes in here talking about Adam-obsessed fan boys, I do not even like Adam, canon Adam is not only gross but far too two-dimensional for me to even enjoy, and my own ideas for rewrites involve me boiling Adam down to a concept and building him up again as if he was a different character as much 'Adam' as Ruby is Red Riding Hood. Nobody accuse me of being an Adam-obsessed dudebro or I will lose it. Because that's another thing that a lot of anti-RWDE people seem to do, is decide that the only reason anyone would ever talk about problems with Adam is because they're an obsessed incel man. And meanwhile I'm over here as a bi-women who dislikes Adam partially because he reminds me of my controlling 'my happiness is your responsibility' ex-boyfriend who we - long story - thought might've stabbed someone with a sword once. So yeah, not an Adam fanboy lol.)

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I’m gonna be completely honest I’m a little baked so apologies if I make no sense

I would just like to start with I am a very big fan of dark fiction. My favorite movies are Silence of the Lambs and Midsommar. My favorite fanfiction at one time contained a violent rape scene. I have no issues with murder, torture, brainwashing, rape, or any flavor of violent/sexual depravity in my fiction, fan-created or otherwise. But the thing is, there’s a reason for it to occur within the narrative the writer is trying to tell. Characters don’t kill and die for no narrative reason, that’s just bad writing. If there is a torture scene, or a rape scene, or incest or pedophilia or whatever depraved shit you wanna put here, you can analyze that piece of fiction as a whole and deduce why the writer might’ve put it there. Media analysis. There is media to analyze. It’s a huge leap in logic to assume that the director included Buffalo Bill’s obsession with skinning women because they had fantasies about skinning women. It is also a huge leap in logic to assume that Vladimir Nabokov wrote Lolita because he is a pedophile. When you read the book or watch the movie and think about it critically for more than ten seconds, it becomes very evident that that isn’t true, even with an unreliable narrator like in Lolita.

However, the (fan)fiction I take issue with isn’t like that. There isn’t much to analyze when the only part being posted (or written at all) IS the rape scene, or the incest scene, or the necrophilia scene, especially when that particular author/artist exclusively posts about that one thing. Fetish content is pretty easy to spot in my opinion, and if you aren’t turned on by that particular fetish, it doesn’t provide you much in the way of storytelling. That kind of fiction was created to feed someone’s fetish, whether that’s the author’s themselves, a friend’s, or a random requester who asked them to write it. (You can also only deduce what is and is not fetish content via media analysis).

The issue isn’t that the writer had the gall to include these topics in their fiction, the issue is that someone is way too into those crimes they’re writing about and it shows. People who are also way too into violent fantasies are just as big of an issue. The comparison shouldn’t be Adult/Child PWP Oneshot Fanfic to Call of Duty, it should be Adult/Child PWP Oneshot Fanfic to that kid in the back of class scribbling in his notebook about school shootings but with different names than his real teachers and classmates. Compare Call of Duty to Lolita (example), and compare sexual fantasy fodder to violent fantasy fodder.

I think it is immoral to fantasize about harming another person. Whether that harm would be sexual in nature or not is completely irrelevant. If someone believes that having certain fantasies is morally objectionable, the fiction they create to stroke that fantasy is also morally objectionable. Obviously I can’t stop anyone from creating whatever kind of fiction they want for whatever reasons they want, even if I find them immoral. That’s censorship. But I don’t think anyone, antis or proshippers, have been taking into account the full nuance of the topic at hand.

TL;DR: You can portray acts of violent or sexual crime in your fiction with all the gorey details you want, without it feeding into a fetish or a fantasy. The fantasy is the thing I take issue with, not the fiction. This is true of both violent and sexual fantasies. Everyone oversimplifies it as “good/okay in fiction” or “bad/wrong in fiction” and that isn’t a conducive discussion to be having.

Anyway. I have the munchies, I’m gonna order a pizza now I think

-🐜👔

Fair enough.

There's still nothing wrong with finding fetish/fantasy/for-fun content gross or highly immoral.

So long as you just block the creator and move on with your day.

[a-court-of-moonlight-and-ire]

Made it to chapter 16 today which means Feyre and I have both had our first impressions of Rhysand's Inner Circle and ohhhhhhh boy

Its hard to pinpoint why exactly, but theres something so discomforting about watching them interact. I think the main thing is that for all their "casual-ness", theres still clearly a rigid hierarchy between them and they all seem to 'know their place' so to speak, its not at all like Lucien and Tamlin's relationship in the first book which genuinely felt like a friendship that was unburdened by their status or positions. Like, theres this one moment where Mor and Amren are like kinda bickering with each other i guess, and Feyre remarks that Mor is probably super powerful if she dares talk back against Amren (in an incredibly minor matter Im pretty sure but I already forgor ngl) and because this is the book where Feyre's perspective starts being Objectively Correct all the time, I guess that's true, I guess the only reason someone would dare voice their opinion on something to this friend group is if they were physically more powerful because otherwise you just level a fucking mountain during an argument

Anyway, Im gonna switch topics for a short moment but I promise this diversion is relavant to the point above. So, sometimes when I go into the anti-tags on here looking for criticisms or complaints of the books, I instead find anti-ship posts that are mainly just about trash-talking some ship, mostly ones relating to that whole Elucien/Elriel/Gwynriel shipwar, which I already have thoughts on but I'll save those for later. In any case, one day I stumbled upon this pretty long anti-elriel post about how the gifts Elain gives Azriel on winter solstice arent actually cute and it describes how she gave him like, herbs that help with headaches "because his friends are always giving him headaches" apparently. And then that post went on a whole rant about how insensitive that was of her and that she doesnt actually understand Azriel's dynamic with his close friends, but honestly, judging from this chapter Elain was absolutely spot on

And I usually wouldn't say this because yknow, its only one chapter and we're probably gonna get the nuances of their relationship later, but this is a book written by Sarah J Maas, her characters and their relationships are rarely particularly deep and, more importantly, her writing is incredibly unsubtle. If Azriel was in any way fond of his friends shenaningans I wouldve noticed it, because Feyre wouldve noticed it like 15 times during that whole dinner. But she didnt.

Its especially bad for Cassian and Azriel because it feels like Cassian thinks they have this great rapport but Azriel just genuinely kinda dislikes him. Not to mention that whole fucking mess with Azriel and Mor and Cassian and Mor having sex so she wouldnt get married off or whatever, good god how is every conversation between them not insanely awkward

Even beyond that, idk man, theyre all just so insufferable. I dont understand how Amren, ancient eldritch being trapped in a fae body that she is, can stand to be around them, I wouldve left them 5 centuries ago if I was her. I guess the explanation is that she finds the government position interesting but its like, youre SECOND to the most boring and annoying man on the planet only kinda ruling over a court that you dont even actually care about from everything Ive heard. Again, if I was in Amren's position I would not be hanging out in an APARTMENT in a boring ass city at the behest of a quartett of stupid bozos, I wouldve weaseled my way into being the personal advisor of Beron or some shit so I could watch the Vanserra Family Drama unfold live

There was one good thing about this discomforting dinner though, and that was how inexplicably gay Cassian was for Rhysand. He was really out there, looking at him with such love, calling him pretty twice in like two minutes being all "I knew I wanted a piece of him the moment I first saw him, the high lord's pretty son" like okay. I know what you are

[isdalinarhot]

on the state of kholin haterism on tumblr

this is gonna be a long one, so bear with me.

one thing i think that has changed in the tumblr fandom in the three years that ive been in it is that the culture in 2021 was ALSO at a largely anti-Kholin sentiment, but there were two key differences.

the first is that most people making critiques of such characters would use the tag #kholin critical, which was useful either if you were sensitive to criticism of one of the kholins for whatever reason AND if you wanted to read analysis of some of their faults by many different users under one tag.

the second is that said kholin critical criticisms were... less stupid? like a lot of it was talking about reddit fandom hypocrisy where dalinar was held up as righteous and badass and could do no wrong even though he had tons of personal and political faults that other characters (largely people who WERENT extremely powerful nobles) were demonized for. also a lot of stuff like "adolin is kaladins friend now but i dont think just categorizing it as simple enemies to besties is fair because adolin WAS being overtly racist to kaladin at the beginning there". a lot of discussion about how the Kholins treat darkeyes and characters of lower dahns where the bigotry there was being downplayed by fans in favor of the characters being painted both by fandom and in the universe of the books as Always Right All The Time. stuff like that.

that's not to say the whole kholin crit tag was all, like, stuff that isnt bullshit. people have been dunking on elhokar for being a whiny failking since the beginning of time. but the vibes were a lot different.

kholin critical kind of fell out of favor as a hashtag because most of us realized hey on a doylist level either the things we're criticizing the kholins for are purposeful character flaws that make for richer, more realistic, more engaging characters; or they're oversights from the moderate liberal Sanderson, in which case, why are we complaining about Dalinar doing this, when we should be complaining about Sanderson doing this. so this whole thing is stupid. and also by then the atmosphere on tumblr was way different, this was by and large the Moash Website and while people were haters about characters they did not put the hate in character tags so people largely avoided each others haterism. and there was peace for like a year and a half, i guess.

things are way different now. for context. i track the #dalinar kholin tag. so whenever my dash is dead im checking my tracked tags, and thus i see every original post about dalinar that someone decided to tag #dalinar kholin. and boy howdy, things have devolved. this used to be a chill experience for me, i'd see first time readers go OH MY GOD HE DID WHAT?????? during oathbringer and "[some philosophical shit dalinar said]" -brandon sanderson. follow for more inspiring book quotes" about three times a day, fanart once every couple weeks or so, stuff like that. but now a solid 75% of the posts in dalinars tag are like. hate. not literary criticism, but hate. sometimes about justified things, sometimes about unjustified things, but still, extremely negative.

in a bubble, that's fine. god knows ive been a hater on my blog before and ill be a hater on my blog again. and its not even like im opposed to reading well thought out criticism of my faves on any level because, like, dalinar is kind of a rat bastard! but like. listen. you don't put character hate in that character's tag. you don't do that. the people who are checking a character's tag are fans of that character and fandom is for fun. being a hater directly reaching out to the lovers for comment is rude as hell.

also a lot of the things people dislike about dalinar tie back to his neglectful fatherhood and his alcoholism which is, like, a thing i understand people would have strong negative feelings towards him for having because Neglectful Alcoholic Dad is like one of the top 10 kinds of abusive dads out there so lots of people have very visceral very personal experiences related to that. but when posting about this in any form whatsoever it feels like im having to go back to Treating Addicts Like Human Beings 101. like i feel like ive made a billion posts to the tune of "okay kids, you can do bad things while drunk and you are still responsible and you can also get drunk at inopportune times and you are still responsible, but the act of being addicted to alcohol does not make a character ontologically evil". and like thats. um. a personal thing but also oh my goodness.

i dont really have a conclusion to this. im just thinking goddamn its bleak out here right now.

[year2000electronics]

I was thinking about this for a little bit but what would happen if Reverse Mabel (especially post-weirdmageddon) meets Anti-Mabel.

Seeing some call Reverse Mabel "evil" I feel this would be a very intresting interaction, Reverse Mabel may see her as someone she could of easily become.

ahh, the "anti" dimension. i ruminated on the concept a LOT back when lost legends first released! i think theres an amateurish fic i wrote somewhere in my files of anti-mabel getting basically-adopted by a one of us au ford BUT I CANT FIND IT.

excuse the opportunity im taking to rant about the idea of anti mabel as a whole lol, but... [continued under cut!]

her dimension is a little confusing to think about sometimes, because the story she comes from, don't dimension it, i think a lot of us can widely agree was almost too much of a "pivot" in a direction we didnt really need to go? it's focusing on addressing mabel's "selfishness", especially in the wake of that flood of mabel hate that started picking up steam, but i feel like the version of mabel that exists in don't dimension it is just... not very true or accurate to the actual character. it feels like a very extended "sorry we had mabel make a rash decision in the heat of the moment that the characters forgave her for because they understand and love her. we will now proceed to have a dimension of all mabels where theyre portrayed as so self-absorbed that theyre all stuck on that dimension with no hope of returning home." excuse my dramatic wording but i swear to god that's what it feels like! and that's what it READS like!

mabel got "caught up in her own mabelness"? she gets distracted with crafts and cats like a SQUIRREL?? the idea of her neglecting those around her being put directly next to her going "i caused an entire apocalypse just to get one more day of summer?" SHE WAS GOING TO LOSE TOUCH WITH HER BROTHER. SHE WAS GETTING LIED TO AND TRICKED BY A GUY WHO HAS LITERALLY BEEN TRYING TO START THE APOCALYPSE FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS NOW. its really ridiculous and it doesnt play well at ALL. this kind of thing really shows to me how trying to please bad-faith critics will literally only make the end product worse.

"but what does that have to do with anti mabel though?" well, anti-mabel's "evil" kinda gets affected by the moral of this story, don't you think? if they arent getting mabel right, then what is this ultimate "anti-mabel" really going to be? not really a reflection of any mabel i know. that's for sure.

but that aside, looking at everything that we know about anti-mabel, her dimension is kinda... played off as a joke? she feels a lot more like a joke character to me more than anything at this point lol

not that i really needed that much development from a one-off antagonist from a silly gravity falls comic but like. how is anti-mabel literally SUPERVILLAIN-TIER EVIL? what? where is she getting the resources for this?? and then you have the rest of her family who are all just like, chill? and its like WHAT IS EVEN GOING ON ANYMORE.

anyways. back to trying to answer the question i was literally asked. i think post-weirdmageddon mabel would see anti-mabel in a different light, thats for sure. anti-mabel's family is nothing like her! maybe she's just lonely. rev mabel knows you can't just get away with doing evil stuff, at least she's learning that, but i think some part of her would sympathize with her deep down

[uncaught-coolfish]

Ok I’m getting this off my chest.

I’ve been in the rwby fanbase for 2~ish years now. My opinion on this show has changed drastically as well as how I myself partake in said fanbase. But no matter what, I’ve held the opinion that, whether you’re a critic or a hardcore fan of the show, a “rwde” or an “anti-rwde”, you’re a massive fucking baby and I should point at you and laugh. Which includes pointing at myself and laughing or else that’d be hypocritical but guess fucking what I have two hands.

Both sides of this pointless fucking online war are so childish it isn’t even funny anymore. If you’re sending death threats to and stalking someone you don’t know and will NEVER know, over said person’s opinion on a

fucking cartoon

you should set your phone down on your nightstand or leave your computer to charge or whatnot and, experience the world like a normal person does

And I’m saying this as someone who has been on BOTH FUCKING SIDES OF THIS. There’s lots of RWBY I love. There’s also lots I fucking hate! But do you want to know what? At the end of the day, RWBY isn’t going to punch me or cry because I criticized it. It also won’t tell me thank you because I praised it. All RWBY will do is nothing at all because RWBY isn’t something that can have a “will” to “do” because it cannot do anything, RWBY is a concept.

RWBY is a concept. RWBY is not real. You are arguing over something that isn’t real.

And I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to imply that caring too much about a piece of fiction is bad or anything. I do that, I do that to this exact show in a way. I’m also not saying that you can’t disagree with people’s opinions on those specific pieces of fiction, and voice those disagreements to them. Because that’s basic fucking online interaction, spanning across the entire internet, not all of which will ever be entirely positive. It’s about the only real thing that exists in this equation.

Which brings me to what I’m actually saying. The show you are debating about online, is fake. The show’s characters, settings, plotlines— all fake. The person you are debating with, is real.

The person you are harassing, is real.

The person you are sending death threats to, is real.

The person you are being abhorrent to is real, but the reason you are being abhorrent is not. Because RWBY, just like every other piece of fiction, is not real.

But the fans of it are real. And they, we— sure as fuck know how to make as alienating of a fanbase as possible.

When you see someone liking a character you hate, you should not go to them and call them an abuser or a pedophile. When you see someone liking a ship you hate, you should not go to their inbox and send them death threats while misgendering them. When you see someone disliking an arc you like, you should not make callout post after callout post making things up to get them harassed.

When you see someone talking about a fucking cartoon in a way you don’t like, you shouldn’t spend your energy, fleeting moments of your life you’re not getting back, on harassing that individual over an opinion that will not only likely not change, but will never effect either of you two in the long run, because it is a fake opinion on a fake show.

You should do what non-terminally online people do, and ignore it. Maybe even block them.

This is a lesson that, in the 2 years I’ve attempted to spend in the RWBY fanbase, not many people seem to understand.

It will never hurt you to see someone who likes RWBY when you don’t. It will never hurt you to see someone who hates RWBY when you don’t.

But what will hurt you, is spending the time you could be doing literally anything else, like— loving or criticizing a fake show such as this— spending that time harassing people who are very, very much real, whose only crime in your eyes is the sin of an opinion you don’t share. An opinion that can be as simple, as menial, and as overall insignificant, as a headcanon or god forbid a fucking ship.

Be better.