#at least use arcane or caitvi critical

[syngularitysyn]

Arcane and Caitvi fans, please stop bringing negativity into the fandom tags. I'm not against analysis posts that challenge garbage hot takes. I'm talking about the 'here are a bunch of screenshots of caitvi hate', and nothing more. There are already so many untagged anti and critical posts in the #arcane and #caitvi tags that it's plain depressing to go in there. Why add to this? You're just signalboosting haters.

[pant--eater]

I never thought I would see the day when I have to block Caitvi tags out of discomfort. But Vi's treatment in Arcane's season 2 narrative reminds me of that one Tumblr post that goes "hot take but supporting butches doesnt mean just being attracted to them". How butches will be treated as men lite, fetishized and objectified and reduced to objects of desire, and that abusing and fetishizing them is acceptable because "they can take it"

It deadass feels like they reduced Vi to a sexy muscle mommy with no characterization other than being Caitlyn's hot gf who is sad sometimes and punches things. Completely ignoring her character arc, the way she sacrifices everything to protect the people she loves and constantly belittles herself and does self harm in form of alcoholism and her whole pit fighter arc...and for what? They never touch on those issues, all of her pain is forgotten as soon as she gets back together with Cait

Even the fact that Caitlyn physically assaulted her and then had a rebound with Maddie, is brushed aside by Vi forgiving it all. It made me sick to my stomach because it could have been a plot point to address Vi's own self hatred, but no, the centrist ass writers were too afraid to make people uncomfortable by actually having Caitlyn face consequences for her actions.

Cherry on top: the timeline where everything is good is where Vi is dead (the romanticization of self destructive behavior and ableism in this season is a whole other can of worms...oh Jinx what did they do to you), and in the ending scene Vi calls herself "the dirt under Caitlyn's nails", being reduced to her cop girlfriend's property

It upsets me viscerally because I was SO invested in Caitvi back when season 1 aired and I loved them and was excited to see where their relationship would develop in season 2. We were getting a big lesbian ship that actively has sex, has flaws and a passionate slowburn, addresses class differences and the effects of police violence, but instead the writing completely killed the ship for me.

[melina-mellow]

I love Pacific Rim so I will never not combine it with my current hyperfixation to make an Pacific Rim Au... Anyway! Wanna hear me talk about a Timebomb, Jayvik, CaitVi, Melvika and Zaundads Pacific Rim AU anyone?????

Part 1 cause this is long as hell.

Jayce and Viktor:

Jayce and Viktor aren't actually Jaeger Pilots in this AU. They're a part of the research team working on understanding the Kaiju and developing ways to defeat them.

Viktor wanted to be a pilot when he was younger, but due to his disability he was never able to successfully pass the tests. So he decided to use his intelligence to aid the fight against the Kaiju.

Jayce passed the tests but was never able to attain a high enough drift compatible score to find a suitable partner. (The highest being with Caitlyn)

Jayce and Viktor meet when Jayce tries to develop a new energy source to power the Jaegers. Hextech.

Viktor is the one who tries to infuse Kaiku DNA with Hextech to cure himself. Immediately regrets it and tries to destroy it.

Jayce uses it anyway after Viktor gets critically injured caught in a Kaiju attack. Also immediately regrets after he used it to save Viktor's life.

This causes Viktor to be influenced by the Kaiju hivemind. Jayce has to pilot a mech solo to stop him.

Caitlyn and Vi:

"Piltover's finest pilots" They're Piltover's power couple (literally)

Caitlyn becomes a Jaeger pilot, despite her mother's wishes. Cait is a universal compatible drift partner, she can drift with literally anyone, which is why she believes that it's her duty to serve as a pilot.

Vi is a former pilot, current criminal imprisoned in Stillwater. She's one of the best pilots from Zuan being as young as she is.

Cait's had multiple different drift partners (including Jayce)

Vi's only had one partner, that being her adopted father: Vander, who retired after a Kaiju attack in Zaun. An attack that Vi believes killed her sister.

Like Jayce, Vi has a hard time drifting with others. Here's where Cait comes in as her partner, after she's released from prison to pilot again.

Wouldn't be Caitvi if they didn't break up at least once, so they do when it's revealed that Vi's sister is alive and is working for Silco.

Ekko and Jinx:

After the sudden attack on Zaun Ekko lost Benzo and tried to find Powder, who he never believed died in the attack. He forms the Firelight with Scar to help people after the attack and to fight against Silco.

Powder Jinx is the one responsible for the Kaiju attack on Zaun. She built a device that mimics the calls of a Kaiju which led to the Kaiju attack on Zaun.

Ekko's drift partner is Scar, the Firelights have two Jaeger's to their name which they use to fight off smaller Kaiju that may attack their home base. The council has tried recruiting the Firelights multiple times, they've always refused and stayed independent.

Jinx isn't drift compatible with anyone. Her mental state makes it dangerous for both her and her drift partner, so Silco has forbidden her from ever piloting a Jaeger (much to her displeasure) She wanted to be a pilot like her sister. So she sticks to help Silco's illegal business and making weapons.

The Firelights and Silco are eventually forced to team up because of more frequent attacks cause of Viktor. With Scar temporarily out of commission, Ekko and Jinx try to drift together. Despite them being extremely drift compatible, the first time they try it all goes to shit.

Backs against the wall and running out of time, they try to drift one more time. It starts off shit, but slowly they start to match each other's rhythm.

"Always a dance with you"

And.... That's the end of part 1!

The next part will be about the divorced dads Silco and Vander and unlikely and reluctant allies Mel and Sevika. I can finally talk about what Silco's "illegal business" is and Vander, Sevika and Mel's role in this AU.

I'm not a 100% caught up on Pacific Rim lore btw. Ntm I wanna mix in some Arcane/LoL lore too... I wanna talk about Zaundads and Melvika first before I actually delve into some world building of this AU.

But for now just know that the Piltover/Zaun struggle is still there... they're working together to stop the Kaiju, but there's still the fact that Piltover is better off and holds power over Zaun.

On a side note if anyone has any ideas or suggestions for what Caitvi and Timebomb's Jaegers should be called please share them as I suck at naming!

And as always, if you wanna use this AU idea for a fic or anything please tag me so I see!

[hauntingofhouses]

arcane s2 spoilers. another caitlyn critical rant because i have Thoughts and i'm Annoyed

can i just say i'm soooo annoyed at how the narrative treats ambessa as the worst most irredeemable person and the one true villain of the series while caitlyn who spent half of s2 as a tyrant in both piltover and zaun is just let off the hook despite them working together for most of that time.

"she didnt MEAN it" but she did do it. she terrorized the people of zaun, she was complicit. yes ambessa was using her but that's because she was so easy to use! ambessa barely had to do much manipulation, barely had to lift a finger for caitlyn to give the green light on all the tactics the militant regime used.

now, see, it's not like i'm AGAINST caitlyn redeeming herself. i'm not. i was ready for her to go down a dark path and for vi to pull her out of it. my gripe is with how it was executed. caitlyn did not deserve it, she didn't DO anything to actually work towards redemption and getting vi's forgiveness.

also caitlyn fans being so ready to just push all the blame onto ambessa is so frustrating because you know what. ambessa is an interesting character. and caitlyn's relationship with ambessa was also super interesting because it paralleled the mother-daughter relationships of caitlyn & counselor kiramman, and mel & ambessa. ambessa elevated caitlyn's character from something akin to stale bread dressed in a girlboss copaganda fit, to something actually intriguing to watch.

but of course all that is thrown away because the show apparently didn't have time to do a full caitlyn redemption arc, which would've further developed the character, while simultaneously unpacking the damage she did to zaun and to vi&jinx's relationship. but nope we didn't get that! instead she betrays ambessa off-screen for the sake of a stupid plot twist and because "she was loyal to vi all along!!!! that's the power of love!!!!" and like i love a good sappy wholesome "power of love" moment, but this wasn't it, man. this came out of nowhere and it just felt so jarring, automatically undoing all of caitlyn's development thus far (a negative arc is still character development). and not only does it somehow just undo all the damage she's done, but also just... brushes past it??? like that girl was wearing a whole ass villain cape and everything and we're just... gonna brush past that? okay.

and look. the thing is, i wouldn't be AS salty about this if the ENDING, at least, was different. like maybe if sevika got a word in during any part of act 3. or if the people of zaun were given more agency in rising up against her regime. OR MAYBE if jinx didn't have to DIE in order for CAITLYN to get her happy ending with vi. and yes, maybe jinx didn't actually die and she did manage to survive, but the people who love and care about her (sevika and ekko) are still left behind, unhappy, while she (presumably) left aboard the airship to who-knows-where. and as a side note i would also like to add that ekko is the fucking boy saviour, the MVP of the entire show who saved EVERYONE from viktor, yet he didn't get a happy ending but was left sitting there all alone, not even with his band of firelights! like come on!

but getting back on subject. the story didn't even show vi properly mourning or acknowledging the loss of her sister in the epilogue. instead more focus is given to caitlyn. no mention of jinx in that last caitvi scene. instead it focuses on caitvi's relationship ("are you still in this fight, violet? / "i'm the dirt under your nails, cupcake. nothing is gonna clean me out." even the episode title is taken from that line). season 2 featured caitlyn as a more major protagonist than vi, with the opening episode and even the closing scenes centering on her. and that, ultimately, is where so much of my frustration towards her character is coming from. it feels like the story of two sisters, vi & jinx, was superceded by caitlyn, and what was initially assumed to be paranoia-induced jealousy from jinx towards caitlyn in season 1 suddenly makes sense. caitlyn entered the picture and immediately jinx is forced out of it, in so many ways.

[theriverbeyond]

#SPOILERS

ok so I watched arcane s2 act 1 and my immediate reaction is mostly mixed -- I think there was gorgeous art and strong individual emotional beats but I think it all got watered down by everything else -- I did LIKE it, I guess (?) and am reserving full judgement for the whole season until the next 2 acts release, but yeah.

warning for SPOILERS and also critiques below:

the deluge of new characters I have no reason to care about, and whom i am given no specific reason to care about (besides the itty bitty one, and that's just bc they are a child) does not hit. I dojt get it. why are these people special or chosen for the strike squad. they're just randos, and fangirls and one of them is a random dude you all seem to have grabbed off the street (?) also who tf is amara. was she even in season 1 at all?

the integrated music videos felt significantly LESS integrated this season than the last. last season it felt like the "music video" segments were just like.... really well done and stylized parts of the show, here they feel more like clipshows or standalone music videos during which the actual show takes a pause. some of them do advance the plot and all are gorgeously done but like, I dunno. feels a bit much, honestly, especially in a show that NEEDS to be incredibly economical with its time

relating to that, it feels as if nothing really happened at all besides setup, and I guess that was perhaps narratively necessary, but using THREE episodes of a 9 episode season to set up the plot feels..... REALLY wasteful, especially when i feel like those 3 episodes didnt have a tight plot OR tight character focus. everything feels very loose. the timeskip between s1 and s2 is like.... idk! why did we skip that. why didnt we just skip farther. how is Vi suddenly beloved by topside those bitches hate her!!! anyway. there is a lot happening and a lot being set up and, as i said before, a LOT of new characters being introduced and I'm not very emotionally invested in most of them. The differences between act 1 s1 and act 1 s2 are feeling incredibly stark right now.

To me, Arcane has always been a character driven work, so I can forgive it of plot issues if the emotional focus and character arcs are strong. I.... didn't feel that here! and even the big character moments didn't quite hit. for me. like ok CaitVi kissed. but like. they've known each other for a week? Why are they acting married? The most resonant and emotionally intense part of the CaitVi arc in act 1 was when Caitlyn HIT HER with HER GUN, in a way that felt deeply reminiscent of how encorcers probably hit Vi when she was in prison. And that was like at the very end. sorry but the kiss just did not hit for me. sorry. so sorry. you can kill me with Hammers if yuo want to

A lot of characters seem to be making plot centric decisions that simply do not feel within their character. Vi becoming an enforcer -- I literally do not care about the game, it is emotionally inconceivable for show!Vi to do be super down with gassing the undercity. Jinx and Sevika suddenly being buddy buddy is weird, even thought i LIKE it, it just feels.... fast. Jinx's arc, emotionally, feels the best and most consistant, and I feel like there's so much setup happening it isn't given the space it needs to breathe. Caitlyn becoming a facist is like.... fine, I guess. I really like the emotional conflict this inserts to the story but again it just feels inconsistant with her lifelong characterization as someone who is out of place on the force. also didn't she actually get fired lol. why is there a Kiramann supercomputer.

a lot of stuff just feels emotionally really off. Cait going wild with anger in her grief is fine, but then it feels.... bad that the redhead bitch who's CHILD Jace KILLED last season is a villian for wanting revenge also? maybe this is just an inherent weakness of the genre. or the source material. or whatever. i mean season 1 was pretty enforcer-critical at least in the first 2 acts. sorry for wanting a story made by people with money to be consistant in its negative framing of cops :/

l am deeply confused about the Noxian angle here -- I think it serves a meta narrative function of giving Topside and Bottom (aka, all the characters we care about, who hate each other rn) a common enemy to rally against, but there is just. a lot going on, honestly. too much? only time will tell. this all makes me deeply concerned/curious about the governmental system of Piltover though. why is Caitlyn like the town King now. why are they not electing new councilors.

don't even get me started on viktor being undercity jesus

Anyway. things I liked: the opening, especially its contrast to season 1. Jinx & Vi's fistfight was incredible I just wish Vi felt more emotionally consistant BEFORE it happened. I really LIKE jinx being given essentially a second chance in the form of saving and caring for a child in a situation that puts HER in a reversed position from her youth. like OK it definitely feels way out of left field but like, that's fine I guess. I like what they're doing with the kid. the art is gorgeous as always. I love how the enforcer squad is represented like hunting hounds, coming out of the gas. unfortunately i think their gas masks are wildly erotic. anyway. what was i saying?

that's my immediate thoughts. I'm definitely open for comments/explaining, but i really don't like the "it makes sense if you play the game/pay attention to LoL meta" kind of explanations I see thrown around -- it's a narrative weakness to be relying on viewers to know LoL lore, especially on the heels of season 1, which didn't need viewers to know anything.

[the-one-and-only-kiramman]

Hiii mod here

So this blog was mostly created out of spite (don’t ask, I was being harassed). It functions one third as an rp blog, one third as an arcane s2 rewrite, and one third as a send in your takes for Arcane (mostly cait, but don’t limit it to her).

Make no mistake, Caitlyn is not my favorite character. However, she was probably the most poorly written (and least understood by fans) in S2, so I’m focusing on this atm.

Tags are as follows:

‘accurate arcane’- takes and head-canons I agree with, or think could be accurate, with little to no notes needed to be added

‘asshole anon’- pretty much anyone that acts like a bitch towards me, whether or not they’re on anon or not. If you want, you can block this tag to completely avoid any issues from them.

‘mod note’- is self explanatory, notes from me.

‘arcane rewrite’- ideas, concepts, and set-in-stone affects for a rewrite of Arcane season 2. You can submit takes that also fall under this category!

‘rp’ is also self explanatory. If you want to avoid any RP aspects, block this tag :3

‘op being insane again’ anything about my ship between Mel and Maddie. It is a stupid asf ship. I know. It’s a crack ship. That’s why I love it. You won’t offend me if you block it :3 You can chose to take it seriously or not, I don’t mind either way.

I will also be using the arcane critical tag. (It will be rare, as I don’t want to be associated with those people) I love the show but it is not without flaws. Block the tag if you want, it won’t offend me, lol, and I also don’t mind since a lot of people who actively use the tag are assholes. (Most of my discussion will be about the issues I find with the writing, specifically how Caitvi is depicted. I have NO ISSUES with the ship itself. It’s my otp of the fandom. However, I have issues with how it was portrayed in certain ways.)

DNI:

Pedophiles or anyone who ships that, homophobes, ableists, transphobes, misogynists, zionists, anti-semetics, nazis, fascists, racists, and pretty much anyone who’s hateful towards marginalized groups.

I’m a minor so no inappropriate asks.

if I forget to tag something, dm me or tell me on the post! :3

Uhhh that’s all! :3

[idkwhatimdoingbutslay]

Ok I’m bringing this post back because there are so many things I said out of anger and needed to think about for longer. When I say that I tweak because of this show I MEAN IT, so lemme clarify.

As much as I’m not Silco’s biggest fans and sometimes get frustrated at how he’s interpreted by fans, I still have to cut him some slack. Silco’s idea of liberation was not as skewed as I presented it to be here. Shimmer has been used for a lot of good, and we have to think about whether the good outweighs the bad. Silco did sacrifice many Undercity lives and did perpetrate the same means of destruction onto the Undercity as Topside at points, but he really believed in necessary evil and the eventual (and effective) liberation of Zaun. Whether that liberation under his control would be all that fantastic is up to debate. Silco’s development over the course of the show was kinda ignored in this post. Didn’t take Silco and Jinx’s very real relationship into a lot of consideration.

im never backing down on the ‘Vi’s not the activist you think she is’ and the ‘LOOK AT EKKO PLEASE’. Never.

Although Caitlyn didn’t show any malicious intent, she jumped into a situation she truly did not at all know enough about to address effectively. Can’t ignore that.

Im also never backing down on the fact that Arcane’s goal is not just to say that ‘cops suck’. You know how boring and useless a show like that would be? We KNOW that, Arcane KNOWS that. Now what?

CaitVi is real and so much more interesting when you take the individuality of the characters and how they fit (or don’t fit) into account.

I do still think about the Grayson & Vander and Caitlyn/Vi parallels. G&V was stagnant and broken. Will C/V be any different? What do the Silco loyalists actually believe? What does Jinx believe? Will compromise ever work? Will Piltover ever change?

The ‘NUANCE’ and ‘critical thinking’ and ‘media literacy’ points didn’t do or say anything lmao. Not really made in good faith. Arcane, of course, is not a black and white show, but I didn’t expand on that. -> Morally gray characters don’t just exist as ‘sympathetic but also a little evil’ tropes. Yes, Piltover is quite literally built in the backs of Zaunites, but that doesn’t mean Topsiders can’t be just as gray as Zaunites, they’re just gray in a much more different way. We can sympathize with the circumstances of the Undercity while also recognizing the humanity of Topside. I don’t think Arcane is meant to be about picking sides, it’s about showing the weaknesses and strengths of both while still prioritizing the marginalized (imo at least).

i still VEHEMENTLY disagree with the people in the screenshots lmao cuz what the hell

Saying it again -> “Embracing all the outrage without at all looking out for the people harmed by bigotry is not activism” because some people completely IGNORE the existence and purpose of the Firelights. But, I do think it’s interesting that in all of Silco’s power and influence, he never directly went after the Firelights. We mostly see him on defence when it comes to that. That is NOT to say that the Firelight resistance doesn’t deserve to be angry and frustrated with Silco and how he handles things

yes, real allies are necessary for progress, but allies also need to learn how to take a step back. Caitlyn, did in fact, stick her nose in business that she had no reason to be in because of her goodness but also because of her ignorance. Caitlyn, in all of her altruism, still hasn’t LEARNED. She knows Vi’s story and Ekko’s, but she’s still missing so many pieces of the puzzle. That’s a problem. That’s on purpose.

Don’t really know what I’m trying to say, but in all of my calls for critical thinking, I wasn’t doing too much of that myself in all of my anger and frustration lol. I’m sure there’s more I wanna touch on but this post is way too long lmao.

… I can’t imagine that we actually watched the same show. Like I REALLY AISNSOSNWKMEJDND

hold on I’m gonna need to calm down.

Let me just make a list of why I disagree and at least organize my anger. Long post incoming.

Vander was friends and had a deal with Grayson. The sheriff. Idk what else to even add to that

Caitlyn is more than a cop and Arcane isn’t copaganda. Genuinely don’t know what kind of progress some of these people are looking for. Real allies are a necessity for real progress.

SILCO IS A CLASS TRAITOR. HE FUNNELLED DRUGS INTO THE UNDERCITY AND PUT POOR KIDS IN FACTORIES FOR THAT DRUG FOR PROFIT!!! HE PAID THE ENFORCERS TO LET HIM DO IT WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE

Vi is not as much as an activist as you would like to believe

WHY IS EKKO NEVER EVER BROUGHT UP IN THESE CONVERSATIONS????

Silco was not good for the Undercity

Silco was not a great guy. Ekko had to build an entire separate hidden community for the people he hurt and stepped on for his own benefit

Caitlyn is ignorant and naive. That’s ok. That’s what character development is for.

Loving imperfect characters like Silco and Jinx then hating characters like Vi and Caitlyn is peak media illiteracy to me

FOR THE LAST TIME: VI DIDNT ABANDON POWDER!!!!! Silco literally wanted Vi DEAD for trying to stop him from killing Vander??? How could you possibly say silco was there for jinx when Vi refused to be???? SHE WAS IN PRISON BECAUSE OF HIM???

Silco’s manipulation is working wonders on y’all

Embracing all the outrage without at all looking out for the people harmed by bigotry is not activism

SILCO IS A CLASS TRAITOR x929282929394

Caitlyn was the first person in years to show Vi kindness and care. She listened and stuck by her and took care of her after Vi was locked up for years and beat up by cops (i wonder what led her to be thrown in there?). Cait being a cop stopped being a point of contention once Vi recognized her naivety and genuineness.

NUANCE NUANCE NUANCE. ITS NEVER EVER BLACK AND WHITE

The only way I can see Vi touching ‘class traitor’ in season one was the shimmer raid. Guess who the hell put those kids in there in the first place.

Just hanging out with Caitlyn isn’t being a class traitor if Vander’s allowed to be friends with Grayson.

Critical thinking is very necessary for watching shows like Arcane

What the hell did Silco really do for the Undercity???? What changed over the 7(ish) years he was basically in power of the place? All I’ve heard was he made the air cleaner, which would be great except for, you know, shimmer and the child factory workers

Jinx is unwell and feeding into it like this in a fully serious manor would not help Arcane as a show at all

What do you want Arcane’s message as a full show to be? ‘Screw cops’? That’s a little boring and unproductive isn’t it?

CAN WE TALK ABOUT EKKO AND HIS IMPACT PLEASE???? x9382728283

Caitlyn is trying to make Piltover and Zaun a better place. Is that not allowed? Am I missing something?

Caitlyn and Vi’s arcs have only just started. Season one is basically fully set up except for characters like silco and Jinx. This is far from the end.

Genuinely think Vander would appreciate Vi for being friends (using this term loosely because they are in love) with Caitlyn considering he was the one who was opposed to war and Vi wasn’t.

Silco should NOT be your idea of Undercity independence and respect. He oppressed the Undercity the same way the Council and the Enforcers did. He helped no one but himself, his team (barely) and Jinx.

You’re allowed to like and dislike any character you want but pretending like Silco is better for the Undercity than others is just so ridiculous to me. Everyone is of course completely allowed to like Silco, but we can’t pretend like he’s this stand up guy. If you have to pretend like he was, maybe you don’t like him as much as you think.

“Because Cait’s pretty” is also incredibly incorrect. Go check point #14.

Vi never stopped loving and caring for Powder. Powder’s mental health issues were amplified and utilized by Silco because he couldn’t even heal himself.

If all of your opinions of Caitlyn and Vi start and end with “cops suck” and “class traitor” then you genuinely don’t respect Arcane as a show enough to show you nuance.

The misinterpretation of characters is just so … it’s like you go out of your way to love and/or hate characters no matter how much they show you who you are.

Your closed mindedness is clouding your judgement and making you out to seem like you don’t actually want the Undercity’s triumph, you want Silco and Jinx’s, even if it means ruining the Undercity. And that would be fine because father/daughter evil duo but trying to say you’re all for this duo because you want what’s better for the Undercity when they continue to hurt it is simply not correct and very harmful (to fictional characters in a fictional universe 😭)

Only being able to understand how Silco and Jinx were oppressed and therefore should be able to not just destroy Piltover but also Zaun is not the eat you think it is

Why is Viktor never called a class traitor? I think he's great (I also think Silco and Jinx are wonderfully written) but we hardly saw him in the Undercity/ interact with people from the Undercity plus he killed someone (Sky) from there (accidentally)

EDIT TO ADD ANOTHER POINT: Caitlyn has shown little to NO malicious intent and has no real negative impacts other than Jinx’s attachment issues and insecurities being amplified by her mere existence. Again, this is her story and development. Throughout the season she is exposed to reality and recognizes her and her peers/ families wrongs. I have no idea what you want from this character. Should Piltover just be gotten rid of in the story? Then what? Should Caitlyn have just never gotten involved and continued to embrace her privilege? Should she have left Vi in prison and stay ignorant?

[karmaticwashere]

This ^^^. While criticism is important and can be helpful, it’s far to often (from what I’ve seen a lot of) more so just people finding ways to reach out and hate the ship / specifically Caitlyn.

Anyones allowed to dislike whatever they want, however no one should be able to go into the main tags (not using anti *this*, just straight up the main tag) and start tearing apart and attacking those who find enjoyment in that specific part of media. Seeing posts saying that if you like *this or that* you should be ashamed.

CaitVi (using as a specific example because of og post and it’s just the one I see the most go to with everything I’ve seen) holds a special place in my own heart as well as many others (which is something I love about Arcane, so many people find something or else in this show to be a level of comfort to themselves, whether it be to a certain character, relationship, etc). The levels of hate being given to those who like it | the posts made to specifically target people who like it that have arisen since Arcane S2 has come out is, well, frankly gross and honestly seems quite childish. (From my own experiences at the very least with what I have seen.)

no bc I don’t have capacity to defend caitlyn kiramman, vi, or caitvi

I will literally block

I can’t defend the ship that’s made me the happiest and most creatively fulfilled I’ve been

Representation fucking matters, characters of every level of morality and trauma

How much of “I don’t get caitvi” “the sex scene was too long” “caitlyn is *garbage take*” is legit homophobia?

Nah. I don’t need to explain the things I love.

[catras-breakup-song]

i believe you are talking about this post regarding the ask you sent to me @thestargayzingetherian, but if not then feel free to correct me!

the only discourse that i hate more than abuse claims (which at least has somewhat of a debatable basis even though the nuance & messaging gets sucked right out) is the sisters bullshit they spout because it comes from a place of being intentionally obtuse, and i think this is one of those things where you can honestly & reasonably accuse these people of lesbophobia since not only does this rhetoric exist solely to denounce lesbian representation, but it's also historically a notorious method of erasure both in fiction & real life to dismiss women as sisters, besties, or as the saying of the meme seems to originate, "roommates" (which... catradora technically were, given the setting, if you wanna be slick 👀).

i'll also add this link since it directly tackles the book with quotes from nate himself, as well as this one regarding a take from an author, even though you're also the individual who shared it with me, for the sake of archival. from another reblog of the former, i also debunked how shadow weaver's relationship to catradora does not automatically mean sisterhood.

another thing that really pisses me off is a few times in the past now, i've seen some serious bullies in anti spaces mock us with sentiments such as "it's funny how only catradora stans are always upset about comparing queer shows/creators because they know they lost at the bottom of the list" (paraphrasing) ─ ah yeah, how dare a fandom that never wanted to participate in an unnecessary (even harmful to all parties involved!) competition they were forced into take issue with getting dragged online for the sake of entertaining your game?! if you think the writing is so problematic then why are you taking it out on average consumers of the media just as much when we never mentioned you negatively first?

i've noticed the perpetrators of that are usually lumity stans (i'm one too and it's my main blog's theme so don't attack me 'cause apparently multifandom enjoyers are foreign these days), whom i'd imagine weren't around back when korrasami was relevant & significant; of course neither was i, though i figure that doesn't matter if the difference is i can at least respect my predecessors, but i digress. that being said, if they were then it's even worse since they should already be familiar with an influential sapphic pairing that existed significantly before becoming canonized halfway through the show with explicit affection could be allowed.

as far as i'm aware (i have not watched it so i could be wrong but i've picked up on many things over time), TLOK just got 4 seasons* and the confirmation only came after a brief moment of intimately holding hands in the finale, not mentioning the extra source material that followed after in the form of graphic novels external to the series. it would be just as easy to deny romantic feelings and, if you really want to sound more obviously ridiculous (as is the case to catradora shippers now as we speak), suggest their bickering over who should have mako as endgame was clearly "sisterly"** and teaching someone how to drive is normally a sibling's job, so that's a fair interpretation!

*to be fair, this is about the length of time SPOP runs for if you count the shortened S2 + S3 together as one.

**a great example of this actually happening is between angelica & elizabeth schuyler from the hamilton broadway musical... and they were very much officially sisters.

the other suspects currently seem to overlap with caitvi stans, which also have their own form of abuse & power imbalance discourse as of late last year. i don't really want to get into it with too much detail since i have my own unrelated reserved criticisms for arcane & its writers, but i will say that community is active and still trashing on nate stevenson unprovoked. as you already stated, amanda overton is quite questionable in several instances, but anyone would have to be hard-pressed to find those of us who reject the idea that caitvi's award-winning intimacy scene has set a precedent for animated lesbians/sapphics everywhere. plus, both executives were/are lesbians and must have put up a tough fight to portray anything on screen that way at all.

from experience on here it seems to me like critics of all levels, from apathetic to passionate, are still eternally grateful for their contribution to the chain of progress over the past decade (i.e. the commonly-agreed order of: korrasami -> rupphire -> bubbline -> catradora -> lumity -> caitvi, etc.), unlike many who believe catradora never should've become canon after somehow making up that they did more harm than good, despite the fact that only discoursers have (hardly, might i add!) had an impact on the mainstream audience's perception overall despite being obnoxiously loud and no one who watched she-ra came out swinging with motivation to abuse their partners/sisters... so far, right? 🙄

if there's one thing WLW across social media tend to love, it's definitely infighting, and i'm tired of not only defending against that but being accused of upholding it by feeling pressured to do so against my best wishes. it's more exhausting than you think!

Once more, for the people in the back:

CATRA AND ADORA ARE NOT SISTERS.

Not "Adopted" or "related by blood", they were NEVER sisters, Period. They grew-up together as best friends in a military-school/orphanage. Plus, Shadow Weaver was their mentor, NOT their "mother".

"Oh but that page from the show bible-"

-Was made before the show ever went into production and was written either by Dreamworks or Netflix higher-ups, without ND Stevenson's consent. So it makes perfect sense that Stevenson fought long and hard, with all of his strength, against these ideas being forced upon the story so that Catra and Adora could fully consummate their love for each other and make cartoon history. Sadly, these bad-faith actors are so desperate to turn Stevenson into this disgusting "incest-abuse fetishist", not because they care about "wanting good writing" or "better representation" but because they want less competition. It's what they tried to do with Rebecca Sugar and others, lie about a genuine, honest-to-goodness LGBTQ+ creator fighting for diversity being the most depraved, most vile monster imaginable just so they can chase them out of the industry and take their place as "the better creator".

Because they believe the animation industry works like some high-school popularity contest where the only way upwards is to tear others down.

[miraamio]

its okay haha, you don't have to clarify yourself for not being rude i won't mind!! as along as the discussion is meaningful, please take whatever approach you want to, to get your point across.

Lets break down this argument into something simpler, yes?

I want to state, again, that i did actually enjoy caitvi's relationship in S1, just not S2.

So your argument for the first point was "Caitvi's connection," which I fail to understand really. Vi from season 1 was friendly towards Cait while maintaining her ground as both an ex convict and a resident of Zaun, her putting on an enforcer's uniform was done in poor taste because when you put on an oppressor's uniform, you become one of them. You cannot ask a victim of police brutality to put on a police official's uniform in any circumstance because it shakes the very premise of your political world building where certain character's are representative of certain extremist ideologies that lean towards the left, stripping them off these ideologies means allowing them to side with the oppressor.

Caitlyn may not be a true oppressor at heart, we know that because the narrative allows us to get a closer look into her own suffering, but that does not unfortunately subdue her actions as an oppressor, as an enforcer and as a resident of Piltover.

You say Vi was upset was wearing the uniform, that is not a rebuttal to my point unfortunately. That's just refusing to accept a flaw in writing. The subjugation of Zaunites is clear as day to every breathing creature in Arcane, and yet, Vi, who is the least of radical characters, was so vocally open about her stance on Piltover in S1, puts on an enforcers uniform.

I understand liking a ship but i dont understand this rigidity towards not accepting any real criticism towards the political immorality of the execution of the said ship. It was not well written in s2 and if you're unwilling to accept that then we can rest the case here.

Now the next point being Jinx's imprisonment, I did not specify the difference in locations, i apologise, i should've. But my point stands still, the parallels between Vi's and Jinx's wrongful imprisonment exists as a mockery to whatever happens next,.

Now the last point is something I believe we can both have differing views on without either of them being fundamentally wrong so if you believe the "dirt under your nails," is only an extension of the oil on water metaphor then i understand. But Caitlyn is an oppressor, i hate to say this but giving up her seat for a Zaunite will not undo her actions from earlier. Its ok! to understand that, i promise. Being an oppressor isn't something that you can choose to not be in a specific moment, as both the character an audience. I don't understand what gives you the idea that i am "accepting" of anything you or i stated, i say this in the nicest way possible, but you cannot see arcane through rose coloured lenses for your politically incorrect favourites because the true radical left cast of the show is never redeemed equally, and often receives the harshest criticism in both the show as well as out of it.

so apparently vi’s parents being killed by enforcers was just done to add complexity in caitvi relationship? and that’s why cait and her parents were chosen to be enforcers.

S1 really wokebaited everyone😭

[augustameretrix]

ok heres some very loose info i've gathered on 2014-2021 caitvi based on some fanfics:

my initial assumption that the power imbalance wasn't a thing was waaaay off the mark. it's brought up a lot, and is often one of if not the main theme of the stories. hell I'd say it used to be a hell of a lot more unbalanced back then than it is in arcane. the more you know!

the reason for this is that generally vi is recruited or made to collaborate (after being caught in the act, for instance) with the enforcers, sometimes even by caitlyn herself. vi can be made to get along with the other enforcers, but in some fics she doesn't, and rarely does she get along with piltie civilians. she sticks out like a sore thumb, so typically the only person in her corner is cait, who also happens to be her boss, to whom she's always very loyal. also reddit tells me there is an amnesia backstory there... somewhere?

fic authors tried their darnest to strike a balance between the og concept of vi, which as you may know, was simply "police brutality comma the champion" (dont look up the old name of her E btw), and common decency a compelling characterization of someone turning over a new leaf after living as an orphan on the streets of zaun. overall vi is very very edgy

you probably know this already but vi is physically very imposing, certainly towering over cait

vi built the gauntlets herself and can be depicted as being very particular about their maintenance, which adds.... something to the character at least

caitlyn never ever takes advantage of her status to get at vi. this is something literally all the fics I've read agree upon - granted I might've missed some and I haven't read most of the PWP, but I was specifically looking for the heavier stuff - she might be a bit oblique or even clumsy, but she's always fair to vi. the fact that she's a genuinely good person is essential to this ship

she is usually not disgustingly rich nor that affluent

the obsessive work-a-holism and nitpicking is very much already an established concept, I'd say it's her main thing really

caitlyn is sometimes headcanoned as bi and I'm not sure if this is simply because she's feminine or if there was ever any male champion she may have been plausibly shipped with

following riots lead in the lore, 90% of their cases revolve around the chem-barons or jinx or petty zaunite criminals. not that piltover is exempt from criticism, by vi or cait, but it usually just amounts to accusations of hypocrisy and very little action

they've always been kinky switches lol

I'm so curious to know caitvi old-timers' opinions on arcane's caitvi