#aside from destiel and sterek | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

thebrokengate · 3 years ago

Note

Ok. I know we are afraid of queerbaiting regarding Byler but I really do not think it is queerbait, it's not like Destiel, Supercorp, Klance, Sterek etc. There's whole discourse and there's tons of stuff to consider. Aside from Castiel, none of the characters involving those ships were confirmed to be queer. And even Castiel's sexuality was confirmed at the last second when he literally dies right after confessing his love. And that's... it. It's malicious, and it's queerbaiting. What about the other ones? They are also queerbaiting, but the difference is that none of the characters were explicitly confirmed to be in love with one another (be it one sided or not) or were confirmed to be queer. Kara and Lena were never confirmed to be queer on the show. The show was just maliciously queerbaiting fans through implications but it never went far beyond that. With Sterek and Klance it's the same.

Byler isn't like that. We literally have a canon confirmation on the show that Will is gay and in love with Mike. And it's not Destiel style where Will's sexuality is confirmed on screen right before his death or something. The approach is clearly different here. Whereas I think that using Will's feelings to further Melvin was shit, at least they'll have to follow up and fix this mess in S5. Then we can talk about it. Aside from that, Byler isn't exactly a traditional queerbait.

Another thing is that ships like Destiel, Sterek and Supercorp were always mocked by the writers and showrunners themselves... literally. Not joking. The writers and showrunners of those shows made comments about the ships which were really problematic. They acted like fans were delusional for thinking about the possibility of those ships becoming canon. Supercorp was literally mocked by the entire cast of Supergirl. Destiel fans were treated like crazy by the writers, constantly denying the possibility of Castiel or Dean being queer. Sterek was the same as well.

Have we ever seen this sort of treatment of Byler from the writers or the cast of the show (aside from... idk, Millie's rather hilarious comments)?

I'm not saying we should trust the Duffers 100% but I also believe there is a difference between Byler and other queerbaited ships on other shows.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. We can't necessarily claim queerbait until season 5 if the Duffers don't follow through. I've only been through a couple of queerbaits myself - J*hnlock (BBC Sherlock) and Nygm*bblepot (Gotham), namely - so this was an interesting read having not known what happened with those other ships. Stranger Things has treated Byler with a lot more care than most other shows I've seen, and I do have to commend them for that. The only real concerns I have are the Duffers backing out at the last second out of fear (which would be dumb now that they're getting more general audience rooting for Will's happiness), and Netflix turning Byler down like FOX did with Nygm*bblepot, but considering this is the last season and Netflix also has queer movies and shows, I don't really see them doing that either. Thank you for explaining to me the other queerbait ships that I've seen people mention a lot in this fandom that I knew nothing about, and comparing them to Byler, this is definitely a confidence booster. So.. this, for anyone doubting today. <3

#ask styx #byler

65 notes · View notes

5bi5 · 4 years ago

Text

Sometimes it pains me to see people being so confident that their gay ships will become canon and being like “Anyone who denies that this is going to be canon is either blind or homophobic!”

Like, people really thought Johnlock was going to be canon back in the day, too, or Destiel – and not in the wishy washy way that it was “made canon” by Cas saying “I love you” because that’s not the same as them being in a relationship, it’s not even technically explicitly romantic. Trobed, MacDennis, Turk/JD, Spangel, Sterek, Stucky, Poe/Finn – there are gay ships for every show, and how much people actually believed they were going to be canon varied, but writers and creators have certainly been aware of this for at least a decade or two.

And it’s not like any of this was completely random or unfounded. There’s this list of points for any gay ship: A) If this were a man and a women instead of two men or two women, everyone would read their story as romantic, and it would definitely be canon. B) The show acknowledges the ship by having other characters, or even the shipped characters themselves, joke about how they’re “basically gay” or “basically dating”. C) The show will often even explicitly compare them to a couple by pairing them with another couple, having them be mistaken for a couple, or having them play out couple-specific tropes, and all of these things, when done with a m/f pairing, are usually used to set them up as the obvious couple of the show. D) The experiences that these characters go through on screen directly mirror the experiences and struggles of many queer people, and if the relationship was canonized, it would help tell an important story.

And people would analyze things, of course, and try and come up with evidence. It’s easy enough to say, “Oh, well Troy being in the closer about dancing is an allegory for him being in the closet about liking men,” or “Mac is the only one who gave Dennis a real Valentine’s Day present because they’re the only pairing with any real romantic chemistry” or “John and Sherlock basically operate as a couple to the point where everyone around them thinks they’re a couple, why would they do that if they didn’t have some feelings for each other?”, and often this will be bolstered by the actors going “Oh yeah, this character absolutely could be gay, I was actually playing them like they were in love”, and then people would believe that their ships had a chance of being real.

But here’s the thing that’s tough to stomach: Cishet people don’t necessarily think about queerness the way that queer people think about queerness. Even if they’re not consciously homophobic, even if they’re actively trying to be allies, queerness will always be an inherent “other” to them, and because of the way that most people were brought up to talk about it, it will most likely always be a joke, even if it’s unintentional. Where you, as a queer person, look at a character and go “Oh, they’re facing the exact same things I did, I relate to them so much, this is a common experience of queer people, this character should be queer,”, a cishet person doesn’t have that experience to draw from. Where you look at a moment between two male characters that’s a pastiche of a romance and go “Well, this is set up like a romance, so therefore it’s probably romantic,”, the creators of that scene might not interpret it that way because to them queer romance isn’t automatically an option. It’s a joke; it’s set up like a romance, but it’s two straight guys, so it’s obviously not a romance. For a queer person, queerness is an inherent part of how they view the world; for a cishet person, it may be something they actively have to think about or be clued into before they can see it.

So when people say things like “Oh, x ship probably isn’t going to become canon,” it’s not because they don’t see the chemistry, or they’re homophobic, or they’re trying to knock you for having ships, or there’s some piece of evidence you haven’t provided them. It’s just that once you’ve seen three or five or ten gay ships get teased for years but only ever as a joke, you stop believing that new characters on new shows are going to have the ending you think they should have. It gets tiring, watching your identity be constantly thrown aside. It’s hard to keep investing yourself in things and being hopeful that, oh, maybe this time, they’ll get it right.

#gay #queer #community #trobed #iasip #Macdennis #Sherlock #supernatural #scrubs #teen wolf #btvs #buffy the vampire slayer

194 notes · View notes

munsonsboy · 3 years ago

Text

Just realized aside from sterek I really don't ship popular otps. I don't ship stucky, I don't ship destiel. I ship bkdk and i don't think a lot of people do. It's kinda like I have good taste or something

3 notes · View notes

asagimeta · 5 years ago

Text

Batwoman: Don’t Believe All The Negativity

So Batwoman premiered tonight

It's about an out-and-proud lesbian, played by an out-and-proud lesbian, with several major cast members- INCLUDING the main love interest- being POC, and it's very gay, this is not your "Power Rangers- let me quietly hint at being gay for One Scene and never mention it again" type of representation, there's lots of kissing, "I love you"s, goofy initial carvings, and serious issues like homophobia in the military and lying about your sexuality to avoid persecution

This is Tumblr bait if I've ever seen it so imagine my surprise when I barely get a few scrolls into the tag and already see people hating on it for not being queer enough because Sophie is married to a man

Hahahha..... I'm pissed

Allow me to advise ya'll to sit down as I explain why this is the OPPOSITE of a problem

First of all I cannot believe that on TUMBLR of all websites I actually have to explain to people that being in a heterosexual relationship- even married- does not automatically cancel out your queer ship

Shows have been putting their charectors through divorces and widowing for decades and it isn't going to stop now, in fact, I'll be THOROUGHLY surprised if The Husband makes it to see the end of the season

But I digress

We'll come back to shipping later because right now I'm going to tackle the biggest problem I have with these "You guys are making her straight!!!!" posts I keep seeing: CLOSETING. DOES NOT. ERASE. QUEERNESS.

I cannot believe I actually have to say this at the home of ships like Destiel, Sterek, and whatever the fuck legion of ships that Voltron produced but being in a straight relationship does not make someone less queer, ESPECIALLY if the relationship is fake, and ESPECIALLY if they have been ALREADY CANONICALLY SHOWN TO BE QUEER

Look I ship Destiel and Sterek and Supercorp too but "closeting" is a THEORY for these ships- with Sophie, it's CANON, she was in a canonical relationship with another girl where she kissed her and said she loved her and planned a future with her and the only reason she's not still with that woman is because was threatened to be kicked out of the military for it, I cannot process how the home of "They're in a straight relationship because they're closeted" is actually trashing this

But even THAT'S irrelevant because I can already hear some of you screaming that you don't ship any of those things but listen to me: Closeted charectors are just as important as out-and-proud charectors are

We live in a world where people are STILL being murdered for their sexuality every single day, where kids are still being sent to conversion therapy, still being kicked out of their houses, still being forced to be in straight relationships out of fear for their LIVES if they aren't- and fear for their jobs, their families, and everything else

I bought my first pride flag yesterday and hung it up today and legitimately my first thought was "gee, I hope this doesn't attract any crazy Trump supporters who are going to light my house on fire" but I did it anyway because I have supportive parents and have NEVER made my sexuality a secret and anyone who talks to me for ten minutes is PROBABLY going to hear atleast 1 "lol I'm bi" joke and I haven't been threatened with bodily harm for it YET so I figure I'll atleast probably live through the night

Other people aren't that lucky

For as important as it is for out people to have our Kate Kanes, it's JUST as important for closeted people to have their Sophie Moores

Please don't take away from the fact that the CW is trying to give that to people just because it means The Ship isn't happening Right Here Right Now

Please don't try to take away Sophie's queer identity because of being closeted

This plot development gurantees us atleast a season of Sophie exploring her identity and circling back to the question of "Do I really value being a member of something that's going to hate me for who I am over the woman I love?", we're going to have a season of her exploring what her identity means to her and we're going to get a really great juxtaposition between one lesbian who's out and proud and telling the story of pining for a lost love and how to navigate Queer Problems being out, and another who's closeted and afraid and in love but doesn't think she can return and how to navigate Queer Problems being closeted

That's GREAT??????

Why are ya'll complaining??????????

That's not something that we get very often???????

Also by arranging Sophie's story this way the CW is trying to AVOID giving us the same problems we always complain about like tokenism and Burry Your Gays, let's be totally honest here, if Kate and Sophie started off in a happy relationship and stayed that way through the beginning of the show, then for Conflict Reasons something way worse was going to have to come along and ruin that- like, you know, probably death? Or cheating, or a petty fight, or Sophie being evil....

This gives us a really NUANCED reason for why there's a story of pining and trying to get back to eachother here

Much like Alex and Maggie in Supergirl, the writers were clearly trying to take care to give us what we needed from a plot standpoint WITHOUT shoving gross stereotypes and tropes down our throats or making one person out to be The Bad Guy in the relationship, because yes you can read Sophie that way, but I think anyone who's ever been closeted can probably sympathize with her about this, esepcially as we don't know the nature of her home life, yes she signed the Gay Lie Document so she could be in the military but we don't have any indication that that was her only reason for giving Kate up so easily

For all we know, going home with Kate may not have ever been an option to begin with

And it's really hard to blame someone for risking their life and the life of their partner for wanting to be Out, especially if they were raised to believe that queer = bad, but I'm getting off topic

Instead of doing what alot of superhero stories do and fridging Sophie- making Kate's reason for doning the cowl to be revenge for her dead lover, they gave us somethin much tamer, something that will last all season but without lowering the number of main queer charectors on the show, they used the same trope that The Straights always use about becoming a superhero For Love but they did us one better because The Girlfreind isn't dead like she would have been in.... SOME.... stories....

But I promised to get back to shipping and here we go-

Aside from the fact that they're priming The Husband to get killed off early on just by virtue of existing (an unimportant charector who will greatly emotionally impact the love interest and create an opportunity for her to pursue the main protagonist, possibly even becoming a hero or a vigilante in her own right for revenge) there's also the fact that Sophie is hardly Kate's only chance at a relationship

If I'm not mistaken, they've already cast Renee` Montoya, and Maggie Sawyer already has an established charector in the Arrowverse too, so if the actress ever wanted to dip her toes back into the superhero waters, she could appear for a bit of time as well- wich would also be prime subplot territory for the next crossover, considering her history with Alex Danvers on Supergirl

So even IF they damned poor Sophie to Straight Hell for the rest of eternity- and I HIGHLY doubt that- do you really think that a show on the CW that opened with a love story is just going to let it's lead go without a love story for the foreseeable future...?

They're giving us a queer-lead show, wich means that it's going to be open to the same "UGH" romance moments that every other show on TV has, they're probably not going to give us an easy ride just because this one is gay like we get out of the background relationships in other shows where the leads are straight and I honestly appreciate that

Sure, I'd love if Kate got the Yuri On Ice treatment where she was able to maintain a steady romance through the entire show with only very short-lived, very easy-to-resolve conflicts ever denting it- I'd love that for alot of shows actually, imagine all of the plot that could get done if the relationships weren't being killed off or broken up every five minutes- but I appreciate as a queer person that she's probably going to get a gallery of love interests just like every STRAIGHT protagonist gets and I'm happy for her, in that respect

But my point in all of this is just that... guys... we finally have it

We have a show lead by a queer actor playing a queer charector who isn't going to get straight-washed or muted down the line because issues of homophobia and her sexuality are coming up in the very first episode.... and ya'll are complaining because her love interest is in the closet and married to a dude to stay that way as if that ever stopped any ship on any show ever??? Really?

TL;DR: Batwoman is great and if she and Sophie WERE in a happy and stable relationship ya'll would just complain about the show being "boring" and not actually working to examine queer relationships so I guess there really is no winning with the people on this website

#Batwoman #Sophie Moore #Kate Kane #lgbtq+#Batwoman spoilers #DC #Arrowverse

211 notes · View notes

thedevilsfamiliar · 4 years ago

Note

1, 2 and 8 OwO

1. What was your first OTP? -First OTP? Dude that was Naruhina. I was a huge Naruhina fan- that’s actually what introduced me to fanfiction. I tried looking up some Naruhina art and BAM a whole lotta stories on fanfiction.net

Next thing I knew I found Sasunaru and never looked back (but Naruhina is still cute)

2. What is your current OTP?

-hnnnng current? Bakudeku 100%, though if you had met me before bakudeku I would’ve said Destiel or Sterek 8. Who is the most shippable person you can think of?

-from our friend group? Codi. Have you seen how many self appointed ships they got? Aside from that, I’ve always found myself shipped with others in the oddest ways-

#ask #ask game #iluvmilkchoco #hey choco!#lil sib #chaotic nuggy #otp ask #otp ask game

1 note · View note

incorrectstevebucky · 6 years ago

Note

do you think the fandom could do what we did with coulson and revive stucky at its peak?

Hi anon!

In my opinion, there really is nothing to revive. Stucky, and all non-canon ships, exist in fanon, the only thing we get from canon is inspiration. If youre talking about endgame “killing” stucky then I have to kind of disagree. Endgame technically killed all ships other than steggy and pepperony (and at the end of that only one half of each of those ships is shown as alive at the end of the movie) as well as 2 main characters. But that isn't stopping people from still writing fics and creating content with tony , nat, and young!cap.

I think all non-explicitly canon ships all live and die with fandom and there’s still a ton of people around shipping stucky! I see new fanart and fics everyday. I think most people are going to ignore canon anyway (especially now since apparently Spiderman is out too) and just create fanworks in one of the alternate dimensions that exist now according to endgames own rules.

I’m a bit confused by what you mean by reviving it at “its peak”. If you mean that is it ever going to be as popular as it was in the 2014-2016 era, then, in my opinion, no its not. All major ships go through a point where theyre at its peak and the top ship but that hype always dies down eventually. If you look at ships like destiel, sterek, whatever that venom ship was called, klance, juliantana , etc. all of them were at the very top for weeks (sometimes months or years) on end. There are still tons of people that ship these ships but the hype has died down quite a bit and its something that happens to all popular things.

There were a number of reasons stucky was so incredibly popular during its peak. People were still in the middle of the winter soldier hype when stuff for civil war started up and it was largely promoted as a stucky “love story” (as an aside, the movies may never have queerbaited but the directors certainly did, most likely unintentionally) and then there was popularity from civil war which made stucky more of a mainstream ship. There were a lot of factors there and lots of reasons why it was such a talked about ship. I think there might be less excitement about it since theres nothing new going on but I do think there are a lot more shippers and fanart/fics now and its still one of the most popular marvel ships (if not the most popular ship).

I know that was really long but the TL;DR version is: I don't think it will ever really die as long as people are still shipping and creating content for it.

I really hope that kinda answered your question, sorry I kinda rambled for a long time.

#stucky #asks #not an incorrect quote #personal #I really gotta learn how to be concise

30 notes · View notes

orionsangel86 · 6 years ago

Text

About Shipping

I was thinking this morning about why I so avidly "ship" Destiel. Why it means so much to me and why it's main texting is something I focus on even with the persistent hate and nastiness from people who are against it.

In our culture there have always been shippers. People have been shipping characters since long before I was born and probably will be long after I'm gone. Slash shipping is a huge part of that. People will generally ship anyone if they think the two characters have good enough chemistry.

The thing is, I DON'T ship. I never have. Not in the way that shippers are known for. I certainly don't multiship. That's not to say that those who do ship characters because "they are hot" or "they have chemistry" are wrong. They arent. Ship and let ship and all that. It's just not for me. I can't watch a show and just pick two characters or especially two characters who are supposed to be best friends and force my mind to see them in a romantic or sexual way.

I could never ship Spock/Kirk or Johnlock for instance. Even with the queer coding I won't see it unless I see it as part of a love story playing out in the text. Because queer coding does not make a love story.

This is the big difference that I find when I talk to other destiel "shippers" like myself. I know many people like me who have never been part of "shipping" culture, who've never been in fandom or read fanfiction before Destiel.

Destiel is different. I'm not saying it's better than those other ships, just that it's different. It doesn't work the same way.

Like how when we are young we consume fairy tales until they are ingrained in our subconscious to the extent that generally we can recognise an intended romantic pairing within the first 5 minutes of the story. No one is gonna watch the Princess Bride for the first time and not inherently KNOW that Princess Buttercup and Wesley are meant to be, even when he is "mostly dead".

I didn't "ship" Buffy and Spike. Their story resonated with me in the same frequency as the fairy tales of my youth. It was as clear as can be after a certain point in the show that their story was a romantic one. (Sorry Bangel shippers).

It's easier with het pairings. Most people are conditioned to see romance first between characters of different genders. It's why When Harry Met Sally asked that infuriating and misguided question "can men and women ever JUST be friends?" It's why after watching the first few minutes of the first episode of Big Bang Theory I rolled my eyes and turned to my mum and said "well obviously Leonard's gonna end up with Penny". But in that case I didn't ship them, because whilst I recognised the intended love story, I tend to rebel against it when it's so obvious it's boring. (Big Bang Theory then went on to be the most problematic piece if bullshit still airing on TV INCLUDING Supernatural.)

So I don't ship characters. I DO recognise romantic tropes and love stories being built into a piece of media. Destiel pulled me in not because these two guys are hot, not because the actors have good chemistry, and even because they are heavily queer coded. None of those things alone indicate a love story. Destiel pulled me in because it so clearly WAS a love story.

Baring in mind before Destiel I had never even considered a queer ship. I was stubbornly heteronormative and had no fandom interaction. I know many other Destiel shippers who say the same thing.

When I look at season 4 DeanCas now for instance, I can see the sexual tension clearly. It's painfully obvious once you are tuned in. I remember picking up on it and wondering if Cas was gay, but brushed it off pretty quickly. In seasons 5 and 6 I picked up on the gay jokes, the standard homoerotic flirtations which SPN had already been doing much to my own discomfort with Sam and Dean since season 1. So I ignored it.

6x20 was the first time something changed. The first time it was written with a slight romantic lense. It made me sit up and pay attention and by that point I was convinced that Cas's love for Dean was more than platonic but still my heteronormativity denied me from really considering it.

(As an aside, I recognised Dean's bisexuality quite early on but didn't think about it too much. For me it was just a thing that was unspoken but pretty much fact.)

From season 8 onwards I sat up and paid attention. After watching 8 seasons worth of this show it had chipped away at my heteronormativity until it was practically non existent. I can't remember exactly when I had that lightbulb moment, but it was during season 8 when I said "shit this is actually a love story".

After that, yes I saw it, i bought into it, and i adamantly supported it. It still took me another few months and binge watching through to the end of season 9 before I even thought about getting online. This was in the summer between s9 and s10 and for the first time ever I was watching a queer love story play out on front of me. For the first time in a long time I was watching a love story that wasn't a boring repeat of every other dumb het love story going. I was captivated.

I don't "ship" and I'm not just "another shipper". There is a reason a huge portion of Destiel fandom sees the canon potential and calls out for this to happen in the show. There is a reason why practically every day new people fall down the Destiel rabbit hole and find us online, especially when the majority of those people are like me in that they have never "shipped" or been in fandom before. Even the ones that have, the ones that have interacted with fandom for years and had many other ships and slash ships in their lifetimes have admitted to me that Destiel is different.

Destiel isn't like other ships, because it's not a "ship" as such. It's a canon slow burn love story being played mainly in subtext but with many textual nods and implications. You can't compare it to any other non canon fandom ships of the day. The only ones that come close are canon love stories.

My point to this long rambly post is to stress that those claiming that Destiel is nothing more than a fetish ship, or a fanon based delusion with no canon material to back it up, those who dismiss Destiel as just another fanon slash ship, and claim that we are entitled for daring to wish it to be brought to main text. Those people are wrong. They are wrong because all we, as destiel supporters need to do to see proof of how wrong they are, is to look at ourselves and ask the question WHY do I "ship" it?

You "ship" it because it's there in the show and you are recognising the love story being told. If you don't see it that way, but still ship it, fine. Though I guarantee you are in the minority.

We have been conditioned since children to recognise love stories when presented to us. Destiel is a love story that you are noticing. That is all. That is why it isn't just another slash ship reliant solely on attractive actors, actor chemistry and a touch of homoerotic tension. It's so much more than that, and when people reduce it to that and claim it's no different to Johnlock, to Spirk, to Sterek or one of the many other fanon slash ships out there it makes my blood boil.

I'm not a shipper, I've never been interested in shipping. But I do know a love story when I see one and nothing anyone could say would change my mind about that.

#destiel #fandom #on shipping and perception #my opinions #deancas #long post for ts

168 notes · View notes

areiton · 6 years ago

Note

I am not in the SPN fandom, but haven't the showrunners/actors been upfront that it isn't going to happen even though they hint at it? Where Jeff Davis/Teen Wolf suggested that it could happen if the fans made enough noise.

oh, man. No. I mean, maybe the showrunners in the past? Like, s8 or 9. The thing with SPN is we’ve cycled through a LOT of showrunners. And a lot of seasons. Some seasons are really bad for Destiel (I’m looking at you, s6-9). Some are just sorta so-so (S 4, 5, and 10) and then we have seasons 12-13 with showrunner Andrew Dabb. (I would include 11 in this, but Dabb wasn't showrunner then so bear that in mind. ) They’re…a lot.

As a romance writer familiar with the beats of romance, the mechanics of storytelling and paralleling–season 11-13 is a love story. Especially s13, which spends almost six episodes casting Dean as a grieving widower and comparing that self-destructive spiral to Sam’s much lesser grief. S14 is stepping back a little (so far) from that, but not so much (IMO) that I think it’s a shelved topic, and it’s expected because of where the overal story is at (hard to focus on will they/won’t they when a psychotic archangel is trying to kill the world).

IMO, our current showrunner does want Destiel to be endgame. The actors–I have so many opinions about Jensen and Jared and Misha (ask me sometime, I will happily babble for ages). But yeah, they’re supportive of Destiel.

(As an aside, I do think the actors for both TW and SPN are part of WHY the ships are a thing, but that’s a whole other thing we can talk about later)

Will it happen? Who know. I honestly thought S14 would be our final season and I don’t think that’s the case anymore, just from what I’ve heard the boys and Dabb say. We don’t know.

I think years ago, Destiel was used for a lot of queerbaiting. I think Dreamhunter in Wayward (and the reference to it in 14.03) was queerbaiting. But I don’t think it happens as frequently as a lot of the fandom thinks, and I tend to view the references to Destiel these days to be part of a larger story pointing toward good things for the Brothers Winchester and Castiel. None of that is bad. (Season 6&7 was the worst queerbaiting we had, but again–my opinion and YMMV.)

On the flip side–Teen Wolf showrunners actively used Sterek and Hobrien to boost viewership and fan engagement with no intention of ever following through, and they did it literally until the end of the show–bringing Stiles and Derek back in s6b was 100% for ratings and was queerbaiting, and served no real purpose beyond that. But they did it with a lot of ships–Parrish and Lydia spring to mind most prominently.

That intentional tease and setup for no reason other than to spark viewership, with no service to the story itself? Is queerbaiting. And it’s fucking infuriates me.

#supernatural #teen wolf #queerbaiting #destiel #sterek #hobrien #arei answers #hey nonnie

50 notes · View notes

thehollowprince · 6 years ago

Note

Hey, it’s the “coding” anon here and honestly that answer to my question was excellent and the exact reason I come to your blog. I would absolutely love to hear you go on about the fetishization of m/m relationships!

This has been sitting in my inbox for over a week, and I want to apologize. I'm sorry for taking so long to get to this one, but I'm overworked at the moment. I've been pulling 60+ hour work weeks, by myself and I haven't had off since the first of December, so I'm a little tired. But I'm here and I'm ready to murder this bitch of a subject.

For starters, and for context, in case anyone who sees this doesn't follow my blog or, if you do and don't really pay attention, I am a gay man, so a lot of this comes from my own personal experience.

Now, onward my fandom soldiers.

M|M Fetishization & Objectification

I've only been super active within fandom spaces for the last couple of years. Before that, I just scrolled through Tumblr and reblogged gifsets and fluffy headcanons and whatnot, but even then I noticed a trend in fandoms that made me uncomfortable. That trend was the overabundance of gay men (chatacters) in fandom works, especially when there either weren't any gay men in that show or book or whatever.

I'm not at all saying we need less of that. I want and need more gay characters in the things I watch and read. That's actually one of the criteria I look for before I start a new show, or a book series or comics. I want to see myself represented in the media I consume, even if it is only this one tiny piece of who I am. But the problem for me arose when I saw all these fan works and headcanons and gifsets and thesis length metas about gay or bi male characters that were neither of those things in their original source material.

The biggest examples of this occured in fairly popular shows that I loved at one point, but do to a combination of bad writing and then the horrible fandom, drove me to actively dislike and avoid them. And that's always a sad thing, when you end up losing the love you had for something because others just won't let you enjoy it as it is.

Those two examples are Teen Wolf and Supernatural.

For years I watched people go on and on and on and on about Stiles Stilinski and Dean Winchester and how they were bisexual and so on and so forth.

There's nothing wrong with headcanoning a character as gay or bisexual, especially when those characters are severely lacking on screen and on paper. The problem arose when the fandom at large started to ignore the ACTUAL gay or bisexual characters that are in these shows and focus solely on their headcanons as the only representation in the show.

To start with Teen Wolf, we had, in the first season, an openly gay character that everybody in the school loved, that being Danny Mahealani. This character was introduced as gay from the very start, but oddly enough, there is almost no large fandom meta or fics or anything about him. In fact, a lot of his traits and qualities ended up transferred to Stiles, such as his intelligence and overall popularity. Hell, even Danny's attraction to Derek was stolen and transferred to him. These aren't things that Stiles is overall known for in the actual canon. He's clumsy and socially awkward and on the outskirts of the school like Scott (the main character) and has been obsessed (to the point of being considered a stalker) with one girl since elementary school, but somehow, in fandom, Stiles is suddenly the genius polyglot queer with severe depression who has a crush on the broody muscular werewolf who just wants somebody to love him.

Fandom created this portrayal of the character that didn't exist anywhere in the fandom except for his appearance. The reason I saw behind this was twofold. 1: fangirls (fandom is mostly female) want to see two "hot" guys kiss and get it on because they get off to it, much in the same way that straight men get off to lesbian porn. 2: Stiles (or any of these headcanoned characters) becomes a sort of self insert.

What I mean by that second one is that women and girls find a male character that's not "too masculine", usually kind of gangly or skinny, somewhat on the effeminate side. Someone that they can project their ideas and insecurities and so forth onto so that they can that pursue that relationship with the hunky manly man that they want to bang.

You may be asking yourself, "Why don't they just use one of the female characters as a self insert?" and I'm here to tell you that I have neither the time nor the experience to go into detail about internalized misogyny and how effects the way women do almost everything, even watching and interpreting their media.

But the reason they chose the male character is that, years ago, during the dark days of FF.net there was a lot of self insert OCs that infiltrated almost every level of fanfiction. Which caused the fandom gatekeepers to rear out of their hibernation and just shame anyone who tried to introduce an Original Character to this already beautiful world and ruin it with their lusts. Thus the OCs slowly disappeared and identifying with the male sidekick was born. And this is generally where we get the whole "my smol gay son!" bullshit. (side note: please keep in mind that 75% of shows are male characters and their problems, which is another cause for female fans to identify solely with men.)

So, for years, I watched Danny, and then his boyfriend Ethan, being shoved aside in fandom spaces so that the fans could focus Sterek (Stiles and Derek) despite the fact that both characters were stared to be heterosexual and that, on screen, they expressed nothing but mutual dislike for one another, if not outright hatred. This got so bad that Sterek, the crack ship whose members had no romantic or sexual interactions whatsoever, managed to beat (by a very large margin) actual gay ships from both this show and others in a fan poll. It got even worse when the character of Danny was written off the show (with no explanation) and we were introduced to the character of Mason.

Mason Hewitt was everything that fandom!Stiles was. He was smart and funny and openly gay and crushing on a hot werewolf. He even did the research that the fandom loved to attribute to Stiles, literally everything that the fandom had Stiles doing in fanon, but somehow the love for him (Mason) wasn't that big of a note in the fandom. I mean, Mason was even a major plot point of season five and the pack's mission to stop the Beast, but i heard nothing but cricket chirps from the fandom.

You'd think that after Stiles was written out of the show for the last season that maybe Mason will get some love now, right?

Wrong!

I didn't think it was possible to get any worse, but the fandom proved me wrong. Because instead of focusing all their pent up energy on Mason and his boyfriend, Corey, who had a number of cute moments in that final season, these fans focused on another crack ship that had no basis anywhere except in their fantasies. That ship being Thiam, which is based, once again, around two characters who actively dislike, if not outright hate, each other and even physically assault one another. But no, that apparently is a display of affection by someone who is emotionally stunted and just needs love to blossom and be his true self.

You notice how often the fetishization of homosexuality (even if only imagined) intersects with woobification?

You'll notice, if you look at Danny and Mason, that they're both POC, with Danny being brown (Hawai'ian) and Mason being black. Now, as I've said before on this blog multiple times, I am the Whittest White Man to ever White, so I don't have any qualifications to talk about fandom racism, so I'm just going to leave that little nugget there for you to think about and interpret how you will.

Moving on to Supernatural...

Before we start with this one, understand that I have not watched this show outside of an episode here and there since season eight, because I realized that no, this show wasn't going to get any better, so if any of this is contradictory to what has happened over the past six seasons (god, this show needs to die!) I do apologize.

Dean Winchester... I never really liked this character, especially as the show went on and I started to actively dislike and then, hate him. So it was annoying not being able to go into any aspect of the Supernatural fandom without coming across a post about Dean and his issues or his Bi sexiness or how his brother was mean to him.

Also, people, understand that this wasn't a new revelation for me. My dislike for Dean and the fandom's obsession with making him bisexual just so they could hook him up with Cas wasn't an overnight decision. I was there...

I was there at the Beginning, when this show first aired, when the ONLY constant characters on this show were Sam and Dean. I endured the hellfire that was Wincest and its infection of almost the entire fandom. Like, that right there, that was one of the most extreme cases of m|m fetishization I've ever seen, because the fandom needed to get off to two guys being together so badly that they turned to actual brothers for want of any other male character.

That's why Destiel immediately became so popular, because here was another guy that we saw with semi regularity that wasn't rated to the Winchesters, obviously they were meant to ship them.

Now, you may be asking yourself, "I thought this bitch was going to talk about gay fetishization, not his dislike for one character?" to which I'll just say I very easily go off tangent. But all of that is relevant because, come one of these later seasons, there was a scene where Dean was at a bar and the (male) bartender hit on him, and he didn't react negatively or homophobic.

Oh, my God, I watched my dash and the tags explode in post after post, meta after meta, about how Bi Dean was canon confirmed! Now he and Cas will HAVE to be together, because its canon that Dean likes guys. and Cas is an angel, who doesn't follow human sexual limitations, and... blah, blah, blah.

Cut to a few years later, and we're introduced to a character named Max Banes, a witch and hunter, who is openly gay and flirts with Sam in his first appearance. Where were all of his metas and fanfics and headcanons? Granted, he only appeared in two episodes, but I have watched people in this and other fandoms build mountains our of molehills, going on and on about how two male characters weren't actually straight and how they were destined to be together because the once wore similar style shirts a couple of seasons apart, or because of a carnation in a jacket pocket that signified love via the Victorian flower code (or something like that), or how the wallpaper of that room they shared a scene in was a subtle clue to their true desire for each other, etc.

And I'm not exaggerating there, those are actual examples I've seen in fandoms over the years.

But back to Max, why is it that he was left along the wayside, despite fitting most of the criteria that fandoms love in their m|m ships while Dean had entire thesis level posts about that time he shared a glance with Castiel or he let a bartender hit on him and not get upset?

And its not just these two shows, not by a long shot. If you were to go into literally any fandom of a certain size or bigger, you will come across fans putting two straight characters together because of "the chemistry" they have. Even if those characters are confirmed to be straight - especially if those characters are confirmed to be straight. Because when these loud fans don't get their crack ship that they rub one out to, they scream queerbaiting and homophobia and oppression, harassing the actors and producers and directors and writers.

Here are some others that just pop to the front of my mind...

Asher Millstone from How To Get Away With Murder (saw him shipped with Connor a lot, despite Connor's actual boyfriend)

Sherlock Holmes and John Watson from BBC's Sherlock

Tony Stark from Marvel comics (all because of one panel where he said "ladies and gents" when he announced he was off the market

Literally any male character in the MCU, which is his we get the things like Stucky and Stony that permeate the fandom on almost every level (and some leeway is given here because of the MCU's lack of wueer characters)

Klaus Mikaelson and Stefan Salvatore from The Vampire Diaries/The Originals (honestly, I was surprised that people in the TVD fandom weren't immediately all over Josh and Lucas, because they're literally everything that fans want and use in their headcanon gays)

Kol Mikaelson and Jeremg Gilbert, also from TVD

Elia and Filippo from Skam Italia (despite there being, once again, actual gay characters on this show. Hell, the entire second season was dedicated to a character coming out of the closet and being with a guy)

Etc.

I could go on and on but then this post would seem infinite.

Closing thoughts, please keep in mind that I am just one guy and that my opinions don't represent everyone in fandom spaces. But also bear in mind, that my frustrations are well founded and valid from my own experiences in the fandom.

My sexuality and the fact that I'm attracted to men is not a toy for a bunch of sexually repressed fangirls who think two guys being together is hot.

#long post #not sorry at all #rant #m|m fetishization #gay objectification #creepy fangirls

15 notes · View notes

couragesun · 8 years ago

Text

TaiyamaWeek17 *Day 1*

So I’m, like, REALLY late (May is a complicated month y’all).... but gosh darnit I’m gonna do it anyway!!

Write about when and why you like Taichi/Yamato

Let’s see..... I started liking Taiyama back in High School. Originally I was a Taiora shipper, but I had a crisis mid-fic and realized the MASSIVE amount of taiyama subtext and was like “Huh... these two together....I like it”. And then it kinda spiraled from there until these two dorks became my ultimate OTP.

I could wax poetic about why I love their relationship all day.

I could talk about how Yamato looks at Taichi the way someone stuck in winter looks at the sun on the first day of spring. How Yamato’s sharp edges seem to soften in the presence of Taichi’s warmth. How Taichi is the center of Yamato’s solar system, and he is continuously caught in the ebb and flow of his gravitational pull, melting his icy exterior one day and setting him on fire the next. I could talk about how Yamato choosing to become an astronaut made perfect sense to me, because he has always been drawn to the brilliance of stars....

I could talk about how Taichi looks at Yamato the way a sailor gazes at the ocean; marveling at its sheer depth and magnitude and breathtaking beauty. How even with his telescope it took him a while to see every cave and hidden treasure. How Taichi, ever the adventurer, would want to explore every inch of it until it’s as familiar to him as his own body. How even though the ocean can be cold and salty and mysterious, Taichi holds fast to the belief that there is so much more to him than what’s on the surface...

But instead I’m going to take a moment of self reflection and really delve into why these two have occupied so much space in my head for so many years.

If I’m being real with myself, I can admit that most of my favorite ships fall into a “type”. I absolutely adore the rivals/enemies-to-friends trope: klance, destiel, sterek, drarry, gratsu, merthur, jily, just to name a few. There’s something incredibly appealing to me about two characters who instinctively don’t like or understand each other, and then as time goes on they grow to appreciate each other’s differences. And the ones that reALLY stick with me are the ones who go one step further and become better people by taking time to understand those differences.

Taiyama is the perfect culmination of this trope, but they took it two steps further. Taichi and Yamato have changed so much since Adventure 01 -- Taichi has mellowed out significantly, become a better mentor and leader, and learned to be more considerate. Yamato has become more confident and secure in his friendships, become less controlling, and is more open with his feelings and emotions -- and a lot of those changes I associate with their relationship. They’ve balanced each other out so beautifully, and there’s a lot of unspoken admiration and love that comes with adapting qualities of another person to your own personality.

These two really do love each other. I think that if taiyama ever became canon then very little would change in their relationship, and I LOVE that about them. I even headcanon that these two would be so exasperated that they fell for each other: “Really heart?? THIS guy?? The idiot who tired to eat soup with a fork for ‘science’??” or “Ohmygod nooooo! I’m going to be stuck listening to shitty emo music for the rest of my life! Is emo contagious?!” But all jokes aside, they make so much sense to me. They bring out the best in each other and push the other to greatness. They accept each other for their flaws and have no problem calling each other out on their bullshit. They would kill and die for the other, and gosh I just love them so much :3

#TaiYamaWeek #Late submission #because I'm the worst #taiyama #CS chats

24 notes · View notes

twink-dan-answers · 8 years ago

Note

I like how the sterek headcannons are like "stiles calls Derek sourwolf", and the destiel headcannons are just "my headcannon is that Dean allows himself to show emotion at Cas's death". There's two entirely different moods for the ships/fandoms, even though I know that there's a lot of overlap with people in the spn fandom also being in the Teen Wolf fandom and vice versa.

okay like yes this is good and all but i’m really sorry i read this as “shrek headcannons” at first and i was so fucking confused for a good frew moments there just like,,, do people have fairytale ocs they put in the shrek universe???? is there shrekxdonkey fanfic???? (answer: yes, as well as donkeyxreader this is a level of hell i didn’t even consider existing) so Yes u reasie a very interesting point about overlap in fandoms yet each pairing having very specific and not-shared headcannons but also i just read a shrek/donkey/sonic the hedgehog fic and i really cant focus on anything aside from the comfort that we all die someday

~griffin

4 notes · View notes

sunshinexlollipops · 7 years ago

Text

Ohhh! I got tagged!

I don't know many writers (more so fic writers) personally, so I'm gonna tag @thatblondwon and scuttle on to my list. 😂

Okay, so five fave fics. Out of the 51 I've written.

This actually just made me realize that there aren't a lot that I like lol.

Either way, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I'm not tagging or including any of my Destiel fics because: 1) I don't write for SPN anymore since I'm no longer a fan of the show or ships, and 2) I don't have any fave fics from that ship or show.

But, either way, here's my list!

---

1. Magnum Opus - Hannigram, ABO

This was a prompt fill of mine, and honestly, this is my favorite thing I've written for Hannigram. It's nothing but a PWP, but this is one of the few that I had the most fun with. It's also my most popular Hannigram fic, so it's a fave among readers too. So, it really is a magnum opus for my Hannigram works. This fic does contain a lot of references to mpreg, and is based around it, but no mpreg actually occurs. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

2. Please Hold (Back) - Sterek, ABO

Okay, so this is another PWP prompt fill, but the reason why this is one of my faves is because of this small bit where I almost went into prose with my writing. I was listening to Beyonce, so that's how it came into play. I always get poetic when Bey is playing. That aside, this is a solid PWP-- the biggest trick was managing to get the dialogue to fit with both the situation that Stiles was in with Derek, and the convo that Derek was having on the phone. I got it to happen, so this fic was literally a party trick in terms of dialogue. I'm very proud of it for that reason.

3. My Uncle Will Go On - Sterek

Prompt fill, but this time, not a PWP per say. It's mainly a oneshot with some smut in between scenes. Mainly, though, this is a fic in which Peter comes back from the dead with a twist. In this, Derek gets to have a family again. Both with Stiles, and the sudden and unexpected ressurection of Peter. It's mainly a fluff/humor piece with a bunch of domestic love. There is mpreg, also, so if you're not cool with that cup of tea, you've been warned.

4. Checkmate - Sterek

One of my smaller, lesser known Sterek works. A Nogitsune Stiles fic, but with a little bit of moderation. Essentially, the Nogitsune holds Stiles hostage, and presents Derek with riddles. Derek must solve the riddle to save Stiles. Honestly, it's a very emotional piece that plays on the fact that Derek was the king on Stiles' chess board. This fic is angst-filled, but it has a happy ending.

5. Fill Me In - Sterek

One of my first initial prompt fills, this fic is quickly closing in to be my most read work on AO3. A PWP, I included this one simply because I loved Stiles in this piece. I guess this is when I really hit a stride with his character, and I found that his humor was spot on and a good contrast to the seriousness that is smut.

So that's it, I hope y'all enjoy the list! 💛

AAAAAH @majesticduxk THANK YOU FOR TAGGING ME! <3

If I’ve understood correctly, you list five of your favourite fics (that you’ve written!) and why you like them. And the rating and pairing, maybe? Jfkdfls I dunno. The fandom was spn?? I wasn’t sure if you could talk about any fandom so this is all spn.

Dendrophilic Debauchery On Reality TreeV (Mature, Destiel)

Y’all seem to love tree sex and I’m literally famous only for that. Also, this was my first @spncoldesthits fic and the fic which ultimately led me to write more for spn. I entered the fandom with a tree sex fic, yes.

Outer Space (Mature, Destiel)

I hella adore genetics and evolution and related concepts and. I love alien fics. This was supposed to be a porny one shot before I realised I wanted plot. But I’ve not written anything for two years. BUT I LOVE IT.

Rock Me (Mature, Destiel)

This started out as crack that I wrote for @twxnkdean, and people ended up liking it a lot more than I thought, and I wrote more and now it has a legit plot (that I’ve still not started writing, gosh). It’s got all sorts of object!Cas scenarios and I just find it hella funny.

The Prisoner (Explicit, Eldean Eldon/Dean)

I?? Actually loved writing it? I know that Eldon was an absolute trashcan but all things considered, it’s… quite an accomplishment for me to write this? I don’t know what to say but yeah I love it.

As @dreamsfromthebunker said, “Interesting way to explore the fandom’s trauma from last year.” XD

Swings And Roundabouts (Mature, Destiel)

First thing I ever wrote for a bang, I think. This literally started the whole tradition of dumping all my unfinished fics at @pimentogirl and expecting her to make sense out of them. For real, though, I can’t even tell you why I love this because it’s just… so close to my heart? And I got gorgeous art for it (Pimmy’s) and I just. Cry a lot. When I see it. Every time. It’s definitely not the best fic out there but I wish to be able to write like this again. Also I love kid!destiel.

And two more considering I don’t follow rules: All We Needed (I posted this around the same time as another fic of mine while I was going through an angsty phase and I like them equally but people somehow ended up loving that one and this barely got any attention, so… here it is) and I Love CN (KID!DESTIEL FIC GUYS! I LOVE KID!DESTIEL.) Both are gen, destiel fics.

I’m tagging Twxnk, Pimmy, @dracofides, @sunshinexlollipops, @candied-galaxies, @katzuyas, @noxsoulmate, @bendoverandbiteyourgag, @lovelybenny, @merlypops, @candied-galaxies, @nyciel and all the people that I was going to tag but realised Duxk already did so uh nevermind…. :’)

I kept this strictly spn because that’s what Duxk did but if you’re one of the writers who doesn’t write spn then go ahead and write about all your fandoms! :D

9 notes · View notes