#aro otome

[otomedetective]

Aromanticism and Otome Games

I am an aromantic who loves otome games. It may seem incredibly contradictory, especially since the common perception of otomes is that they are wish-fulfillment games for people to insert themselves into a story where they date attractive men. There's definitely nothing wrong with playing them in that way, and many people get a lot of enjoyment out of them, but that isn't the only way to play an otome game. In fact, many otome game players prefer not to self-insert at all and I’m one of them!

My personal experience being aromantic means I do not feel romantic attraction to anyone, and I do not desire or need a romantic relationship to feel fulfilled in life. I’m perfectly happy with my platonic bonds and my perpetual singleness! That’s how I experience it, but there are many different ways to be aromantic, and there’s no one universal experience that defines how all aromantic people live their lives. Some are repulsed by romance and its overbearing presence in nearly all forms of media, and others are comfortable seeing other people experience romance despite not experiencing it themselves (though these, of course, are not the only two groups). I personally lean more towards the latter category. I love romance stories! 

For me, playing an otome game is like watching a romance movie where I get to decide who the heroine ends up with. It's like a shipper's dream! I don’t self-insert because I am not comfortable putting myself in romantic situations, but by observing a fictional couple, I can safely explore the romantic plots and experiences that interest me. And let me tell you, I love a good romance plot. Especially one with drama.

A comparison I like to make when people don’t seem to get it is that I also really, really love murder mysteries and tragedies, but I do NOT want to actually experience them myself. What I want for a character and what I want for myself are two completely separate things, so there’s really no contradiction! 

In fact, playing otome games was a big part of my aromantic journey in the first place. I never had crushes as a kid that weren’t forced or peer pressured. When people talk about the characters in their childhood shows that they had crushes on, I can never relate. To me, there were only interesting characters and stories. I’ve never really wanted anything more than that. 

So when my second-ever relationship ended and I was wondering whether I really felt romantic attraction at all, I decided to try otome games. 

I chose Collar x Malice as my first game because, as I mentioned earlier, I am a huge fan of mysteries and tragedies, and the premise intrigued me. Then, throughout my exploration of various otome games (and as I quickly became hooked on them) I tried some games with less developed heroines, specifically made for self-inserting, and found that I couldn’t handle them. Separating myself from the heroine helped me enjoy the games more as I realized that I didn’t actually want to be in these romantic situations myself, but only wanted to enjoy the story.

So what was the point of this whole post? I guess just to share my own personal experiences as an aromantic otome-lover and address the contradiction. Otome games aren’t necessarily mainstream-popular, but they certainly have their dedicated fans, and I’ve really enjoyed the interactions I’ve had so far with these fandom spaces. 

Sure, the primary focus of the games may be pretty boys who you can date, but otome games can also be so much more than that! It’s a genre I’m glad I decided to try. 

I’m happy to be an aro along for the ride to read some good stories, puzzle out the right route choices, and look at some aesthetically pleasing character designs along the way! :)

[thecottagecorebisexuals]

So. Y'all know how in the Characters Profiles, there's the harem + Catarina answering the question "Is there anything you would like your lover to do for you?"

And Catarina's answer is basically "Well, I used to think I wanted to be held like a princess and be whispered sweet nothings but I got that last one and it's too much." And there's no mention of her current wish so here's my headcanon: She wants to be the one pulling out the romance novel moves.

Here's my justification:

She wants too coolly princess carry her. Holding her like a princess.

Also, she's the one getting on one knee.

Her character profile:

[miaookami]

Me, a sapphic aroace, playing otome games because I like compliments and toying with fictional characters feelings

[smol-tired-binch-blog]

everyone thank @elfrootenthusiast for being the reason you get more Felix content

[chickenleafs-world]

Was tempted to put this on the last post ranting about dating sims, but those were more general and these are more specific to me.

I hate how many visual novels/relationship games have sex/implied sex/kissing/accepting a confession integral to the good end, even when romantic love isn’t integral to the plot. It opens it up to the people only interested in one/a few/no love interests. As an Aro/Ace, I sometimes want a story driven game/visual novel focused on building relationships and character study *without* having to use the “make an oc and rp your ass off” method. As much as I don’t want queer routes to be relegated to implication/friendship, I also don’t want all het routes to be locked behind romance. Playing romance games for the plot gets really tiring after the billionth time pretending you want to kiss the love interest so you can see the end of their arc.

It sucks that alloromantics (and to a lesser extent, allosexuals) have the monopoly on intimate stories. Even saying I’m aromantic but a fan of any number of otome franchises makes people doubt either my status as a fan or (more commonly) my status as aromantic. I try not to mention it because it’s awkward to explain how in the world a romance game is appealing to an aromantic. It’s become a meme when people say they’re playing a romance game “for the plot” but some of us genuinely are. I wish I could just say “these are for another target demographic” and play something else, but there aren’t really many games with the same appeals but no romance.

I know some people are gonna think “why are you complaining that dating sims have dating” but that isn’t the issue I’m having here. Asking devs to just make games marketed solely at Aros is obviously unrealistic, we’re a tiny market that won’t even all be interested. But is it always that hard to give a little bit of optional changed dialogue that lets us have the same experience minus the romance? Again, romance has an unfair monopoly on stories and games about intimacy and relationships. I have to complain about dating sims because dating sims are the closest thing to the genre I want to play. It isn’t fair (and is indeed quite limiting to the art form) to insist that aromantic people aren’t allowed to want representation in the media we consume just because there’s no precedent for representation.

[m-i-n-a-m-i]

I need to speak with my fictional boyfriend rn. I miss him 🤧

[tsukiyadori]

When rare meets rare meets even more rare... ✨

I couldn't possibly say it now... that I, who gave out all that [love] advice, «can't» fall in love even if I wanted.... Yoimachi Hatori, Koisuru (Otome) no Tsukurikata chapter 55

Me: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhh

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhh

I had some real strong hunches about her, but--------------------

oohhhhhhooooooooooooohohhhhhhhhhhhhhhdjsfhdfkjgkjdfgkfdjhg

It's actually official now!!!

So what do we have here?

Koisuru (Otome) no Tsukurikata ("How to make a (Maiden) in Love" also known as I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend Into a Girl in Seven Sea's English localization) or OtoTsuku in short, is a tale about Hiura Mihate who is, in modern Western queer parlance, a gender non-conforming femme boy (even if the first take on the English translation botched it hard by disagreeing) in love with his male childhood friend Midou Kensuke who's loves fashion and cosmetics and is very much female attracted, but slowly discovering that his feminine type isn't exactly limited by sex and gender.

GNC (not used as a trap or mere cosplay joke) is super rare already. This series also goes out of its way to make it abundantly clear that this is no trans woman character plot (given the timing in which chapter 46 hits down the nails on it in more than clear words and chapter 45 was still right in the middle of another plotline, makes you almost suspect if the whole translation drama, which was also brought to attention to the author, caused that coming out prematurely into existence...)

It's also rare for being a series that doesn't go the queer is a suffering tragedy sob story-route, nor does it reside in an alternate universe bubble of homophobia simply doesn't exist. Internalized stereotypes of masculinity and later internalized homophobia is something Midou wrestles with from the get go and needs his time to fight against emotionally. Overall the series is still super compf by setting it into a safe place of local acceptance inside their school, friends and Midou's sisters. There is no origin source of an active oppressive force of discrimination. There is just the force of the implications of normalized expectations wreck. OtoTsuku deals with it by featuring a plethora of great little examples of how to weed out a lot of the worries you can have right off the bud. (The swimsuit discussion is quite great and elevates the obligatory beach episode trope of anime/manga into something super wholesome.)

The series even features a bi/pan-character Hayakawa Ayato who confesses to Hiura clearly stating that he knows about Hiura and that man or woman doesn't matter to him. Who recently (ch 54) even got a little comeback to the stage and is reintroduced as a subject of envy for Midou for all the things he can already do with such ease, where he himself is still all silently struggling with them, which also established Hayakawa as more than just a throwaway character to jumpstart Midou's self-realization.

There are also plenty of straight love woes surrounding them to avoid the "somehow everyone's queer in this world" trope that especially BL (which this technically counts to, although not quite in terms of your usual genre dynamics) so often suffers from. Classmates get to guest co-star their own chapters for romances and there's kouhai Ginjou Akechi established as a member of the regular cast who constantly confesses and gets dumped by his crush Yoimachi who's a classmate of Hiura's and Midou's.

And there is Yoimachi herself.

Who is all supportive and downright a fangirl of other people's romance. Who will dodge every discussion about her own type and romance ambitions with leading them on by ambiguously fawning over arts, sculptures, busts and mannequins. Who would dump Ginjou persistently and mercilessly. (But still not cut entirely clean by simply avoiding him or cutting down on interactions with him either.) Who is always open, upbeat and reliable.

Yoimachi who would also make a face like this:

Ch14: Isn't it just fine, to feel pathethic and terrible. Why don't you just do what gives you some peace of mind?

This is totally the expression of somebody who has been in the slumps herself. You know that sort of slump where you can't really talk to anyone. And in her case, she compensates by being a good listener to other people's worries.

This is also Yoimachi who would also try to come clean after all with Ginjou:

ch35: "No matter how much more you confess, I will absolutely not be able to answer it. So I recommend you stop it already."

This is such a roundabout phrasing. There is no mention of want or your usual "This is absolutely not going to happen with you". It's an "can't happen". With such a self-deprecating smile at that, she also just recommends him to stop. Not asking or demanding him to stop being a nuisance. His advances put her into discomfort, yet she doesn't blame him at all for it.

If that hint wasn't strong yet at the end of the same chapter

Yoimachi stares at her horoscope. "Only luck in love is a [full score] five stars, huh. ... even though... I don't need it..."

«I don't need it.»

Hits home? Hits super home. Also, that downright cocky "Can you see" poster quite gets me. Can you see? Can you?

The rest of the cast clearly can't:

ch55, Ginjou: "You know I've been wondering recently. Senpai isn't interested in humans and doesn't want to raise any hopes from me. Isn't that maybe because she had a drunken love in the past...?"

To ramble on with an absurd cheap ass romance plot line anyone thinks is idiocy, but then everyone also just goes

"But no wait. We can't rule it out either, can we..." along with a "mysterious aura" as an sfx.

OF COURSE, you're going to be an enigma. And the next best idea is to have something trauma-based if you're dodging this territory altogether.

Or Ginjou mulling over her fame of giving out love advice:

"But well, Yoimachi seems to be blessed with a lot of life experience. She looks so far ahead, you wouldn't think of her as a same fellow high school student."

No, no, no, no, all you do it look at things more sensibly or rationally and not be completely blinded by this dumpster emotion that makes no sense, that blinds your eyes, disables any unbiased observation skills or general brain circuits.

Or

Girl: "Your advice from the other day was really helpful. When I told that my boyfriend he was like 'She's so experienced with love, it's downright scary'!"

You see that and feel like wanting to smash something? Of course you can only have a valid, helpful opinion on the love topic if you have experienced it yourself. And vice versa, if you do have something worthwhile to say about it, you naturally must have had that experience yourself first hand. Because of course anything about love is not something you could actually study, by, let's say, listening to other people's love tales?

Which this Yoimachi certainly loves to do:

ch30: "Hey, hey, I want to hear about everyone's love stories! I loooove the love tales of other people!"

Yoimachi herself eventually has to vent her frustrations in a monologue tirade, while thinking she's on her own:

"Hum... Betrayed by a friend, two timing, three timing, associating with a man twice your age, a long distance relationship with somebody you know from the internet.... huh?

Isn't there way too much action in high school recently???

I somehow resolved all of them, so it went well, but...

Everyone, you're the way more love experienced ones, you know...

... I couldn't possibly say it now… that I, who gave out all that advice, «can't» fall in love even if I wanted…."

Oh I know those rants. When everyone else around is going absolutely nuts. And you can't find a good place to say a single thing, because that's just going to destroy somebody else's entire world view.

I absolutely adore that Yoimachi is such a fan of everything romance, as well as savy about it, despite knowing what the deal with herself is. End the conflation of aro/ace with prude and general repulsion already. Being interested in a sujet doesn't mean you have to had that experience or be interested in experiencing it yourself. You can like reading mystery and thriller fiction that wouldn't mean you'd want to be in the middle of a series murder case yourself, would you? (Though IRL I recently did get an answer of maybe you would actually. Facepalm.)

In any case

I'M THRILLED.

POSITIVELY TRILLED.

I was really liking the series already for dealing with a character born with stats or interests not quite in alignment of sex/gender expectations in such a nice way. About wanting to go against it not having to mean you're having to be the opposite gender (but still allowed to go through all the questioning of it) nor it being a feminist battle plotline. A series just being continuously fluff, cute and compfy while being fairly grounded at the same time. Adding this bit next to all the other themes - on an established secondary main cast character - is just such a nice addition in an assembly of rarely seen stuff. And getting it so quickly after I stumbled over Fudanshi Kazoku which came along with quite the great super surprise reveal - I'm almost feeling like I'm getting a bit too spoiled.

(And unlike Fudanshi Kazoku this series will probably hold out for a bit longer. I'm still half in denial that it just went and wrapped it all up right after that. q_q)

[alienaiver]

finished my first route in code realize hihihihi !!! (//u\\)

[happy10thousandyears]

Just had the kylar Christmas event????? Wow ???😭😭

[subwayghostboy]

.

[sofiaruelle]

valentines is coming up and i’m planning on some pin ups. 👀 not sure where to take it tho….

Let me know in the comments if you guys also have suggestions on poses 👀👀 my aro/ace sapphic ass doesn't know what to do with these bachelors.

[masteri-0]

Man, I wonder how it'll feel like for an aro/ace person to suddenly be thrown into an otome game, or one of those romance fantasy isekais. Like damn, that'll be all levels of awkward and horrifying, but I want to see one where they just nail all the platonic routes. Why can't people simply exist as good friends regardless of gender? ╮(￣～￣)╭

This thought was inspired by seeing so many fics of Otome AU feat. Cale from TCF. Now don't get me wrong, I love them, but I can't see him having a special relationship with someone, not when there's such major found family platonic vibes.

Also, that guy's denial and inability to comprehend people liking him that way is possibly bigger than his workaholic tendencies, not to mention he doesn't seem like the type to ever give romance a second thought. Guy's already a single mom to... How many kids?

I must say tho, other than the romance aspect, Cake really seems to fit the Otome protagonist to a T (plus minus the tragic backstory and traumatic *waves* everything), just going around fixing all the problems, attracting 'flies' everywhere and causing misunderstandings. Atp I don't even know what I'm saying anym. Anyways I think I also just described like half the Korean novels out there, or maybe I just have a specific type.

Tldr; Cale is aro/ace (tbh the novel barely even touches on romance, which I am quite happy about), he deserves all the love in the multiverse, and we stan his one-sided pining of slacker life-chan

[arataka-reigen]

hello!! i saw the tags on your pinned post abt how shoujo wasn't just romance and it got me curious bc i've read some nice shoujo but really dislike romance-heavy plots. are there any shoujos you like that don't have much or any romance in them? ty and i hope you have a good day! 💛

Oh, there are lots of mangas that are classified as shoujo and don't have romance!!

I am just now beginning my journey through shoujo as well, so I don't have a lot of recommendations for stuff I actually read, but the ones I did read or watch so far are:

Natsume Yuujinchou and basically anything else by its author, Yuki Midorikawa. Sometimes, her works do include romance, but the focus is almost always in the interpersonal relationships and the difficulties her characters go through in life. NatsuYuu is about an orphan boy who can see yokai, and for that reason he acts in "weird" ways and his foster families dislike him, so he keeps going from family to family. The story is about how he finds a good family who accepts and loves him, makes friends, and learns to make friends even with yokais.

There are currently 6 anime seasons out, and a 7th season is on its way, so you can either read the manga or watch the anime.

Akatsuki no Yona - i mean, this one does include romance, but i'll still put it on the list because as far as the anime went the focus is heavy on Yona's actual journey to gather the dragons of legend to be able to recover the kingdom that was stolen from her. It shows how Yona goes from a sheltered spoiled girl to a person befitting the title of dragon king.

My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom - this one is the og villainess isekai and it truly deserves the hype. It is about a girl who wakes up in the child body of the villainess of her favorite otome game. She remembers that the villainess' fate in the game was always either death or exile, so she tries her hardest to change her fate. This one is classified as a reverse harem, but the main character is pretty oblivious and worries more about farming and eating sweets and generally being the best girl ever than actually worrying about romance. Aro ace queen tbh. And her harem is just happy to be with her and be dragged along for her stupid adventures. Plus, the female members of her harem are taken seriously as well, Mary is a raging lesbian and it is not subtext. I mean, it is a shoujo, so of course the female characters would be important lol.

Usagi Drop - listen to me. You will absolutely not look for anything related to this manga. If you like the premise you can watch the anime. But, please, do not look for the manga. You will only be extremely disappointed by it. That being said, I recommend the anime. It is about a man who returns home for his grandfather's funeral and then finds out his grandfather had an illegitimate daughter who has now become an orphan. He ends up having to take care of her because the rest of the family considers her a shame to the family.

Now, for the stuff I havent seen yet, I'll just write some that are on my "plan to read" list and put their genres next to their names so you can check it out if you think the genre's sound interesting:

7 Seeds (drama, horror, psychological, sci fi, survival)

Requiem of the Rose King (drama, historical, supernatural, gender identity)

Basara (drama, fantasy, adventure) (i think this one has romance, but from what i've heard, the main character's story is a lot deeper as she takes her brother's identity in order to fight against the king who killed her brother, it is pretty famous and considered a classic)

Ghost Hunt (horror, mystery, psychological, supernatural)

Helter Skelter (horror, psychological)

My Stepmother and Stepsisters aren't Wicked (comedy, historical, slice of life)

Ikoku Nikki (drama) (this one is the one i'm currently most interested on, i hear it's about a distant woman who's never had a good relationship with her sister and now has to take care of her teenage niece because her sister died)

Itsuwari no Freya (crossdressing, historical)

Limit (drama, psychological, school) (this one sounds incredible tbh, on a field trip their bus gets into an accident and only 5 girls remain, having to learn to survive and trying to assert themselves over one another because they hate each other.)

Machida-kun no sekai (school)

Mitarai-ke, Enjou suru (drama) (the main character wants to infiltrate the household of the family who blamed her mother for a fire, in order to prove her mother's innocence)

Smoking Behind the Supermarket with You (comedy)

Uramichi Oniisan (comedy, showbiz, workplace)

Usotoki Rhetoric (mystery, historical)

Don't Call It Mystery (mystery)

If anyone has more things to recommend I would also love to hear about it!!

[dairy-farmer]

Hi, actually, I've asked a few Dicktim au ideas at you as anon, but I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone a little, so I didn't hide myself this time... Anyway, here's a batcest au that goes a little too far

"Probably everyone knows about the most popular video game of recent times. The game, which was suddenly released and the producer of which was unclear, had appeared with the promise of a reward to the person who managed to complete all its parts. However, despite the attempts of almost everyone in the world, no one has succeeded so far. 'Batfamily' is a yandere otome game that hosts four possible partners. And there's only about a week left for the award to be given, so all the game lovers spread it around, who knows, maybe someone we never expected will be the lucky winner of completing."

Tim grunted as he connected the virtual reality glasses in his hand to the TV. He couldn't stand Steph's endless insistence again and became forced to do something he didn't want to.

Which he wasn't going to lie, the game actually had very interesting features. It had a high-level technology that allowed the formation of personalized characters by uploading all the characteristics of the player to the database, and according to what he had heard, the game's male leads also had remarkable features.

It's just that Tim wasn't good with romantic or dating simulation-style situations. He was happy with the war games himself, thanks Steph, but it wouldn't hurt to try, would it?

The character formed depending on his own personality was a little strange. As time went on, he was doing photo shoots by walking on rooftops after the main characters, all of whom were vigilantes. It all started just like watching a movie, without even having a choice until he reached the age of about 12. After learning about the ground knowledge of the Tim's own character, he began the personal stories of the male leads.

He was officially turned into a caged bird with Bruce. He had taken away his freedom along with a tool that built a room inside the bat cave that could not be found by anyone and made Tim stay small forever. He had planted seeds of doubt in his mind for everyone he knew, had only tried to make him trust Bruce and only him.

Even when he tries to escape, he points out the presence of bad examples around him and said 'Let daddy protect you my little boy, everything is going to be alright. I will not going to let someone take you away. No, you are going to be with me forever...'

Together with Dick, there was an initial situation similar to the scenario of Bruce not letting Tim go again, but as time progressed, it turned out to be much different.

Dick had transformed Tim into a baby in every sense. He fed him with drugs that would make him lose control of his body, brought back his hairstyle from the first moment they met at the circus, dressed him in dresses with a diaper attached underneath

He also started acting like a kind of mother, and when Tim tried to run away, he slapped his butt and even his baby pussy with a very sad expression on his face saying 'How mommy is so sad to hurt his baby but Timmy is starting to become a bad boy so he has to do it... Is it starting to hurt baby, I am so sorry, why don't you come to mommy's lap and take mommy's cock in your baby pussy. It will make pain go away baby and if it not helps mommy will kiss your precious parts, don't worry...'

With Damian, he become a pet. He has to take obedience training because his owner is so kind to him even when he is nothing more than a bitch in heat. Make Tim swallow everything he gives to him, breed him and make him pregnant with puppies

'Are you going to be a good mama for your babies or are you going to try pumping on my legs like a desperate slut? Oh, I see now. Then I think we need a few more lessons for your traning...'

And with Jason, everything was a little more violent. He cut off all the limbs that could help Tim move, smiling every second, and then began to walk around holding his bandaged body by the waist. He made him sit on his lap and eat, and at some times stroked his hair, and at other times, because he knew he couldn't move, he filled him with sperm and left the room to do his own things

'You know little bird, if you can't move you can't try to do drugs. If you can't move you won't leave me all alone by myself. And if you can't move then I am going to be the only one who can kill you...'

He was sure that he didn't want to continue the game after all four of these episodes, but there was only the general part where everyone was together, and no one had ever made so much progress before. And it wasn't like Tim didn't start wondering how much more dependent they could be for no reason. So he waited for the introduction music of the last episode to play and continued the game

The result was a complete disappointment...

Everything was actually developing quite nicely. There was even a scenario that he could call normal, except for threats of being killed and having his throat slit and left for dead covered in blood. But what really made Tim happy was the fact that everyone could start getting along with each other. This has never happened in any personal story, and Tim even began to believe that the concept of 'Batfamily' in the title of the game was real

But then his character died suddenly. He died on a mission that he went with his team, not even by the main characters in the game

What was the point of everything then? That's why Tim didn't like anything other than war games, okay... So stupid, not even a real ending... As he grunted, he noticed how sleepy he was starting to get... Oh, maybe he should have gone to bed, because there's school tomorrow, right?

And then he woke up on a different bed(different how, why is everything is so not right) to a smiling Dick on his bedside. Ah, he probably slept in the manor instead of his own nest then. But he is still sleepy so maybe he should lie down a little bit more, right?

He didn't see the promising dark glint in the normally happy eyes...

And cut... It would probably be nice for me to explain a little bit in order to fully reflect what's in my head. Tim really died on a mission with his team without any way of salvation. Just before his death, everyone in the family had really started to get along with each other, but Tim's funeral left everyone devastated.

Everything I've mentioned as a personal story is fantasies that the characters start to create in their own dreams in order to prevent Tim from leaving. The main general part is what is really done. The game contained magic, which was also the reason why no one who played it except in a different world that was most similar to their own Tim was successful. As soon as Tim finished all the episodes, he was teleported to the other world along with the memories of his dead version. They'll probably start implementing their dreams in the personal story on him now, but that's all I have. It's been a little long, but I hope I didn't bore you

hello!!!!! great to hear from you!!!! don't worry no one sharing their ideas with me will ever be boring!! i'm always so excited to read about all the different au's and ideas everyone comes up with!!!

and the trope of 'otome isekai' is one i've seen growing lately and thinking about along with tim is sooooo interesting 👀👀👀👀👀 it's definitely much rarer to see- combined with my favorite kind of genre in fic 'alternate universes clashing or interacting with each other'!!!!!!!

the concept of losing tim and how it drove the bats a little bit insane is so good because it results in them being insane enough to come up with this plan to drop a 'game' into various universes to find their perfect tim and take them home and make him their little wife/the mother of their children. the alternate universe tim clearly doesn't have any 'bats' in his universe which of course makes him an ideal target because the last thing the bats would want is to tick off another bat family. but the almost horror movie scenario with tim slowly getting more and more sucked into the game because of an innocent determination to beat it and win and then getting tangled up in this plot is so good!!! especially at the end where there's a clear cut between him in his normal world and him in the new one where he dismisses the fact that he's in the manor rather than his nest.

the only way tim would suspect anything amiss would be working backwards from people's reaction to him to figuring out he had died....but then if he were dead...how was he still alive....

a dark batfam going to any lengths necessary to their tim back and manipulating things behind the scenes to the point that tim doesn't even realize he's being lured until they already have him is so perfect!!!

[michiruze]

[Edited 240703]

Many people have said that the best way to avoid dudebros and incels in fandom is to not interact once they make bigoted jokes, but however, there is an easier, surefire way to detect dudebros and incels, especially anime and manga, without having to interact with them:

Never trust people who are disgusted by Shoujo.

Never trust anyone who expresses disgust towards media catered to women (and marginalized genders), be it Shoujo, Otome games, and more.

It is a misogyny litmus test, but hating Shoujo can reveal a lot about a person, it is most likely a sign of homophobia, queerphobia, transphobia, and bigotry.

Let me explain,

Recently, bigoted dudebros and incels from all over the world has been more millitant on their bigotry online due to.....more media being catered for women. Hiding behind their hentai and fanservice girl profile pictures, they were upset as hell, spitting out angry 'thinkpieces' on 'the double standards feminists has on media with fanservice' --- solely for the fact that there are media where male characters are treated like female characters in media that dudebros enjoy.

You might be asking, "How does hating hetero romance manga mean that someone might be misogynistic, queerphobic, and transphobic? They hate hetero romance, it's nothing weird. A lot of people just can't stand heterosexual stories."

Simple. The answer is that they simply hate women. It's not 'heterophobia', it's misogyny. They hate stuff made for women.

Here's a bitter truth about men who hates Shoujo:

The way dudebros describe male characters in Shoujo and Joseimuke media also veers to homophobia and transphobia, calling them 'gay' or misgendering them, all because of these characters not adhering to their standards of masculinity.

They also carry these views to women (and marginalized genders) who enjoy them with slut-shaming to boot, solely for the fact that they see and treat male characters the same way that dudebros see and treat female characters.

When dudebros sees women and marginalized genders getting attracted to male characters, they see it as a threat, as a reflection on how they would treat real men (ignoring that there are sapphic, ace, and aro shoujo enjoyers!), as if they weren't already treating real women like shit the same way they do it to female characters.

When dudebros hate on 'hetero romance Shoujo', they do not like the fact that what women consider to be 'ideal relationship' is different than their ideal relationship (Dudebros always ignore the fact that Shoujo readers aren't necessarily wanting real relationships to be 'just like in Shoujo', and again, will always ignore the existence of queer Shoujo readers. They assume all Shoujo readers are 'straight women').

They do not like how women are attracted to men who aren't them, they do not like how women who are attracted to men are 'seeking these <insert homophobic slur here> men' who they do not see as 'ideal men'.

"But I don't like Shoujo! I just don't like it, not in the misogynistic way incels do!"

This isn't a call for anyone to 'go like Shoujo now' --- disliking Shoujo is fair, it is not a bad thing to dislike it. You don't have to like it, Shoujo is not for everyone after all. Romance and shipping is not for everyone after all (even though there are Shoujo media with no romance).

Just stay in your lane and stay away from Shoujo-positive spaces, don't be assholes to people who like Shoujo.

But feeling disgust over media made for women (and queer people) and being assholes towards people who enjoy it is not a good behaviour.

At this point and climate, Shoujo hate often means "Women are not allowed to have things made for them, because it will turn them into delusional sluts who will threaten real masculinity. Women will be so poisoned by Shoujo that they will become man-hating sexuality-collecting gender-queers who will not bend to real men."

And it happens all too often. It is no longer cringe culture, but outright hate.

That is why Shoujo hate is gateway to bigotry.