#arda meta

[eri-pl]

It will be chaotic, because I can't force myself to make a structured post about it, I don't know why. Also sorry if my autocorrect does something stupid, I'm writing on the phone.

So, the Legendarium and causality, and good deeds, bad deeds and their results. This is the main topic of this post.

Is this post about the Legendarium? About real life? Both? Well, it surely is about the Legendarium, but not only. It's fuzzy. One of the things I like with tolkien is that such discussions get fuzzy and thinking about the books gives me insights about life.

There is a rule which I try to follow when writing or even planning something more serious (in the Legendarium context, but in general too, unless specifically going for a genre that's different): if a long-term success (in something that matters) is achieved by doing something morally wrong, those conditions must be fulfilled (not necessarily all clearly written out, but I must at least have a vague idea):

1. It could have been achieved in a good way, and it wouldn't be lesser. Or it wasn't really that important. (Because I refuse to accept "necessary evil")

2. Either something bad came out of it, or someone has to put effort into it not happening. I'm not sure how to explain it better (see later about handling other people's bad choices)... Anyway this makes the story feel more satisfying, more interesting.

3. How much of 2 is needed is proportional to how bad the thing was. Also if the character couldn't be expected to know much better, point 2 is less intense, though it's often still more interesting to have it.

I wonder how close to canon is this rule. Anyway I like it. Also, I tend to assume at least 1 when interpreting the canon, which likely influences my opinion about the Feanorians and the whole Silmaril business.

I'm not saying this is a 100% rule in real life, or even a technically 100% rule in te Legendarium, because omniscience is tricky… but it is a good rule in writing, I think, and even more so it definitely is a good rule in approaching decisions. If something can't work in a moral way, it won't work anyway or is not worth it. Nothing really worthy can be permanently lost by making the right choice. And so on.

It seems like there would be a symmetrical rule of good deeds not resulting in bad events but then we have the Children of Hurin. And what did Hurin do wrong? I have no idea.

But then, the Men are generally... And you could also look at Maedhros, but then, the exiled Noldor, and SoF in particular are also, hmm, I think "marred" is the word I should use here.

Still, I really prefer if there is something good coming of from good deeds, even distant and not seen by the person doing the good deeds.

Also, there seems to be is another rule, it's outright said. Things always turn out into a good ending, and you can either go with it or fall under it.

Example: gollum. He could have cooperated and jumped with the Ring willingly. He chose to betray Frodo, fell with the Ring anyway.

You also can, obviously, do a creative mix of going along and falling under. (Must I say: the two oldest Feanorians, it is this obvious?)

And falling under makes things more difficult for everyone, not just the person doing it.

Darn, I made this sound ugly and tyrannical. It's not. But I remember when I would say it is, and I can't explain why it is not. It's kinda like when you do a weird thing with your eye muscles and start seeing double. It's just not. I just can't explain it in a way this deserves. My apologies.

Anyway, bad choices make things difficult for everyone. Because we are connected to each other. I've already made a post about it long time ago, but generally...

Maybe if Saruman wasn't such a jerk weed have a Sauron redemption. (Maybe, it's always a maybe)

Maybe if Maglor didn't take pity on the twins, Númenor would fall much earlier and Sauron would be more successful. And so on and do forth.

It's always a maybe, and nobody determines anybody else's choices, but still, we do impact each other. It's hard to think about, because it's over if the places where a) it's worth to try b) there's no guarantee of anything... (Which are most places, I guess). Both on the Silm and in life, people are interconnected. But also everyone is responsible for their decisions.

It's hard to not blame characters (or people) too much. It's hard... In general it's wonderful but difficult, the whole concept.

And another thing tired to this very closely, tied to the interconnectedness (is this a word?) is unearned suffering and Hurin and Nienor and Miriel (both tbh) and Feanor back before he was a jerk and many others.

Sometimes we get the outcome of someone else's bs without even consenting to it. Why? I suppose it's because the connectedness is now important than "not getting random bs thrown in your life". Maybe. Probably. I'm not wise, ok? I'm not sure it's my heart, but something's telling me it's something like this reason.

And what can we do

Argue. Rebel. Just take it. There are many things we can do. I'm not going to go on a rant about what Feanor (or Finwe) should have done and so on because I don't want dfw and others to have a bad time listening to me criticizing their guy, and also I wasn't in his position so I shouldn't be ranting. I should go rant at myself or something.

But the things aren't going to solve themselves or disappear. So yes, just taking it is a very noble and beautiful thing to do (and hard as... Idk what's hard. A Silmaril is hard, I guess)

Because it's so very infuriating when someone else's bs lands on your head.

Oh how I wish I could handle it better.

Back to the Legendarium. Someone handling it better generally yields results, see: the Long Peace. And probably many other situations.

And of course there are situations when the bs you have to handle is your own and if you don't handle it, it will fall of everyone else's heads. This doesn't necessarily make it easier to handle. :( Sometimes someone helps, and that's nice.

Yet another question is how realistic a book should be.

Should it portray lots of undeserved suffering, of badly handled undeserved suffering (CoH), because it's part of life? Should it portray hope triumphing against reason (B&L, and remember that Beren was just as much a Man as Turin was), to give people an escape?

I think (maybe it's rather obvious) that we need both, because depending on personality and circumstances, we need both validation and acknowledgement of our pain, and hope that things can be better. Both kinds of stories are necessary.

It may sound untrue, and sometimes I wish I was a kind of person who can live with only hopeful stories, because the day ones are what I need when I'm not doing well— but no. We do need both, at least in terms of "what most of the story consists of". We need ways to express pain without an immediate answer.

It's a sad song.

But we're gonna sing it anyway.

Until we finally get it right and the sad parts start making sense.

And let's not even get into "sad stories where people mess their lives up so much because that's how freedom works, yes, they can do that" because I have absolutely no idea what to say about those.

[edennill]

ok, but how much did the numenoreans know about the fate of men? because...

the thing is, when you share Tolkien's Faith, the way it's always presented as such a huge mystery is almost funny. because you can so, so easily guess -- well, not even guess, you just know what he meant; it has to be the same as ours, whereas in-world it's always "well, mandos knows, and maybe manwë". kudos for being aware of something most of the valar aren't, then.

but how much do the numenoreans know or guess? they say "we must die and go we know not whither" and I used to pity them a bit for that uncertainty -- which, of course, would not excuse anything, but might be disquieting, especially when you're placed next to the immortal elves. we seem to be pointed towards the edain of the first age having no beliefs they were certain about in regards to this, going only on hope -- one of the closest things we get is when hurin has his moment of defiance to morgoth: "well, you cannot keep on tormenting us after we die! then we're out of your reach", but interestingly, as far as what concerns us here, he replies to an accusation that he's just repeating what the elves taught him (which is not a valid counterargument, but never mind), saying that no, it just came to him in that very moment. in general, we get the idea that they know very little, though some of them vaguely hope for something good (and I do wonder whether news of Beren shook things up at all, even if he did not, after all, meet the full fate of men that first time, just waited in the hallway).

so far, so good, if a bit bleak, but then we get to The Mariner's Wife, and Meneldur's dramatic monologue:

'May Eru call me before such a time comes!' he cried aloud.

and

'I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?

and you could read it differently; to be honest the polish translation gives less room for doubt, which may colour my interpretation, but it does seem that he knows, or guesses with seeming certitude, and that is such a different attitude from everything else I've mentioned.

what have I to say to this? nothing except that beliefs may have grown or changed. I am very far from an expert on this, but, within ancient Israel which might be the closest analogue, and was even mentioned in connection to Númenor by Tolkien, beliefs regarding the afterlife seem to have indeed evolved with time; compare, say, the Psalms with (2nd) Maccabees (*the latter is in the Catholic Bible, but not in the Protestant ones, if you're puzzled) or Wisdom?

yes, it's not much of a conclusion, l admit, but there isn't really anything else I might say, unless it were to add that third age gondor seems to be somewhere in between, with a vague and hopeful sense of something, aragorn's "and beyond [the circles of the world] there is more than memory" and faramir's "till that time, or till some other time, beyond the reach of the seeing stones of númenor" (italics mine) being the relevant quotes. (the rather dramatic, if you think about it, context for the latter, being that faramir is probably well aware neither he nor frodo are that likely to see the next month. also worth noting that the italicised phrase is in text paired with the image of an alternatively possible - though "beyond hope" - meeting where they could "laugh at old grief, in the sun")

(the rohirrim seem to have their own beliefs, but they also seem to come with their own traditions, which, while not on the most part incompatible, may at times have been different. on the other hand, what we have is not much less vague either, just cloaked in different terms, so there isn't much evidence either way.)

[novemberthecatadmirer]

Headcanon about Morgoth, the Void and Dagor Dagorath

My crazy headcanon is Morgoth initially stole the Silmarril because he wanted to make sure Yavanna could not use them to make new Trees. Yes the gems were beautiful but he had no use for them.

Then in the horrible Unlight he looked at Ungoliant, this creature from the Void, this being that just existed and eating and eating and never create anything, this thing that’s hunger itself, and realized, Oh.

He realized he could become something like this. Actually, he would become something like this. He already lost the ability to create and he could feel the desire to destroy, the desire to twist and eliminate everything others created, that desire was growing stronger and stronger inside him. He remembered originally he knew what he wanted to create, he wanted to undo the world and build a new one in his way. But now he could no longer recall the full picture of his new world. It was a past dream that was quickly fading, replaced by the wish to just destroy everything. Like a Spider.

He realized he was slowly becoming a Spider. He was already on this path. He had used his one chance to turn back to firmly push himself further down in this direction. Too late.

The family he betrayed, they knew, some of them. He remembered Namo listening to his yelling like some of those elves listening to their horrible kids throwing a fit. Nenna cried for him. Este tried to invite him for tea and demanded him to “heal himself.” Ulmo hated him. Yavanna stayed away from him like he was some kind of foul things that will make her sick. Varda looked at him with that mocking, knowing smile. “I know where you are going,” she once mouthed to him. He remembered Manwe looked so sad. “Why are you doing this to yourself?” His brother, too good to understand evil, ever so condescending, asked him with real concern. He hated it.

Now he understood. Indeed. Why would anyone do this to themselves? Why would anyone condemn themself to become a Spider and end up being claimed by the Void? Of course Manwe knew this. He was the one who knew the most about the vision of Arda. He was the one who knew better. Unable to understand evil? How do you understand why someone do something, when you fully understand doing that brings only harm to themselves? How do you understand why someone do things that will make them a slave of the Void?

Probably the One was the only one that could forgive him now. If he begged. But he would not beg. He might have threw away everything but he had his pride.

The Silmarils burned his hands. Good! That meant he was still NOT a Spider. How foolish the Ungliant was to ask for the gems. He did not know what would happen if the Spider touched them, but nothing good. Maybe they’ll cancel out each other, the Strength and Love and Hope of this world and the Hopeless Hunger from the Void existed before the world was made.

He was going to keep the gems. He was going to clench them until and after the end of this world. He was not going to let them go. They were going to keep him safe, AWAY from the Void. With the Silmarils he would never become a Spider. Everything was going to be well.

——————————

I think the Silmarils really mattered more to Morgoth than them mattered more to anyone else. My headcanon is the more depressed you are the more attractive the gems feel to you. Morgoth basically was drowning in Nihilism in the end of his character arc.

The worst thing to happen to an artist that live for making things is losing the ability to create. Morgoth did that to himself. He did not knew it; he thought he was just going to have fun destroying other people’s artwork and his own creativity would bear no harm. Actually he was the one who got harmed the most. Yet he still would not regret and say sorry and mean sorry, because he would always try to convince himself there would be other solutions (world domination and the Silmarils) that would help him without hurting his pride and forcing him to take responsibilities.

(The evil is clever but also stupid.)

It’s interesting that Morgoth ended up in the Void soon after losing the Silmarils.

My crazy headcanon is the Valar did not push Morgoth into the Void. They would not do that to anyone.

The Void came for him. The Void claimed him, because he was already a creature of the Void. Then the Void swallowed him whole.

He would never escape.

——————————

As for the Dagor Dagorath? My headcanon is it’s not Morgoth breaking out of the Void. Instead it was going to be the opposite way round: It would be Arda sliding into the Void.

When Arda Marred got so aged and damaged, it started to slide into the Void like Morgoth and ungoliant did. That’s why human were so important in that; a lot of elves probably were just too depressed to fully reject the Void.

(Morgoth would escape but that hardly mattered. He would already became a Spider and it would be like a drowned cat trying to climb onto a sinking ship in desperation.

Also that’s why the human left Arda would “return.” They did not. The world just joined them instead. And they’ll be able to rekindle the world with the Hope they found in places out of the world.

[aeide-thea]

this tolkien meta points out some parallels i'd never particularly considered before, but the main thing it made me realize, which is tangential (and also negative) so i'm sticking it in its own post, is—why is tolkien so obsessed with niblings?

thorin has nephews. bilbo has a nephew. théoden has niblings. and with both thorin and théoden we know they're the children of a sister who gets no screentime. (denethor's sons via a long-dead wife get an honorable mention in this category also.) and part of me thinks: isn't this basically, conscious or not, a strategy that lets tolkien write about dynasties while effectively eliding the sex and marriages—and women!—that produce them?

which is easy to shrug off with the argument that those things aren't the stuff of Adventure, but rather of the society the adventurers leave behind them; but at the same time, it's all of a piece with the deeply sexist, deeply catholic ('sex must occur only within the confines of marriage, which becomes a euphemistic container for it') sensibilities that permeate tolkien's work more generally. like—look at homer. look at vergil. the domestic and familial can absolutely appear in epic. women can appear in epic.*

and of course you can say, well, tolkien's work is really more in dialogue with anglo-saxon and germanic traditions, and i'd have to admit i haven't read those stories since i was a preteen (watch me now get really into the nibelungenlied/völsunga saga/eddas…); but iirc even those featured fewer women who were always-already-dead!

⸻ * obviously éowyn does in fact get significant screentime in lotr! and even in a way where she's involved in Actual Affairs and not, like goldberry and galadriel, just a pretty symbol of the adventurers' temporary reentry into a settled sphere. but you notice that she both has to take on a male role in order to take part—she can't just fight, she has to become 'dernhelm' to do it—and that she's restored tidily to proper wedded femininity by the end of the story (hoo boy can we talk abt faramir literally wrapping her in his dead mother's mantle). anyway. loved éowyn growing up and also very vehemently think people (often women!) who claim her narrative isn't in fact sexist because it's about tolkien ~valuing healing~ are closing their eyes to how that narrative functions when it's applied to a woman specifically.

[outofangband]

I actually wanted to repost this ramble about Morwen with edits now that I’m almost done with one of the relevant posts 

It’s been awhile since I’ve rambled about Morwen being accused of witchcraft so I just thought I’d confirm that I’m still absolutely obsessed with it and all its implications and possibilities. It remains one of my very favorite details for so many reasons. 

I love that Morwen is genuinely feared by awful people and I love that their prejudices and superstitious, almost certainly ones Morgoth would foster and encourage as a being who delights in spreading discord and turning people against each other, actually work to protect her, at least in part. It’s thematically appropriate

I’m probably going to make another post about the linguistic implications from the line “Witchwife they called her and shunned her: Witchwife it is but elf friend in the new language”. I made one here already but I’ve done some more research to add. It’s such a fascinating word and the fact that human sorcerers of any kind are rare (in Arda) and the use of the word witch with with those gendered connotations is even more rare just makes it more intriguing 

Anyways as always my tag for this stuff is word ran among them if you want to blacklist it

[elithilanor]

Did Arda only get water tides (eg low, high, king) after the creation of the sun and moon? Or does something else create gravitation pull and waves, such as Ulmo? Or are there simply no tides in Arda given that the moon doesn’t seem to be restricted in a gravitational pull around their world, but rather placed specifically?

Thoughts?

[ospreyeamon]

the shape of arda

I've always had trouble deciding whether I prefer the cosmology as explained in The Silmarillion or one closer to the version in 'Myths Transformed' Tolkien began working on where Arda is always round and the sun and moon pre-date the Trees. On one hand I do like the idea of a world of eternal night and the first humans waking in the light of the first sunrise to hold it in adoration afterwards. But on the other hand there are things that annoy me about it, like how changing the shape of the world didn't destroy massive swaths of it in tectonic disasters, where the extra sea and land needed to cover the gaps came from, and that the sun first rises from the west.

O how I hate the idea of the sun rising in the west. The insistence that Aman is the ultimate source of all light and civilisation, flowing through the Eldar and Númenorians who have been uplifted by the Valar making them superior to all who refused it or never had it offered to them at all, is incredibly obnoxious.

While 'Myths Transformed' can be taken as proof of in-universe knowledge of planetary roundness, that does leave the question of how the mythic flat world came to be recorded by people you would expect to know better; the Ñoldor received teaching from the Valar who surely must have been aware of the shape of the world if they created it. However, I do have an idea about how it could have happened…

🎇🎆

Valar: Well done team – one circular world and it is absolutely perfect.

Melkor: What a stupid shape for a planet. I think *smash* that this *crash* will be a much better one!

Valar: ...let's try again somewhere else and pretend this never happened. If we refuse to accept the Marring of Arda and keep hope things will get better maybe the problem will magically fix itself through the power of positive thinking.

🌳🌴

Manwë: *to the elves* ...and all the layers of the Airs stretch as far as the Encircling Sea. They touch the Walls of the World, beyond which lies the Void where my beloved Varda’s stars shine.

Ulmo: Don't you think you should mention that this is only true for Aman and that Arda is round? And just because the sun and moon didn't turn out quite the way we hoped that doesn't mean we should encourage the elves to forget about them entirely.

Manwë: I think that the fact Arda should be flat is more important. The sun and the moon are old news; the Trees are much better. Just look at the way the light drips – Yavanna really out did herself with them.

1️⃣

Fingolfin's Host: It was amazing how the sun appeared just as we arrived in Middle-earth. Definitely an omen of the coming of good things.

Fëanor's Host: Actually, it was already day over here. You just didn't see the sunlight before you passed the end of the dimensional verge at the edge of the Hel... carax...

Fingolfin's Host: *glaring intensifies*

1️⃣

Ñoldor: Your ancestors must have decided to journey to Beleriand because at their awakening they saw the sun rising from the west and loved it as we love the stars.

Humans: Actually, according to our people’s lore the sun has always risen in the east and set in the west. The first elves we met – we have mentioned them before; they live beyond the mountains and don't have glowing eyes which is why we didn't realise you were related to them at first – told us that their kin had gone into the west to dwell in a land without famine or sickness where the dead can return to life. We thought that sounded like a really nice place to live.

Ñoldor: Let us explain to you why your traditions are silly and wrong.

2️⃣

Faithful: How could anyone doubt that the cosmology taught to us by the elves is correct? They were gifted the knowledge by the Valar themselves.

King's Men: A bunch of people circumnavigated the world by sailing across the Eastern Sea until they emerged from the Sundering Sea. They brought some weird birds they violently appropriated from a distant continent back with them.

Faithful: Clearly this is a conspiracy to trick us into breaking the Ban of the Valar so doom will fall upon us.

3️⃣

Third Age Scholar: It's strange how all these ancient texts describe the world as a disc even though we know it to be spherical. Perhaps the nature of Arda was changed during one of those continent-destroying cataclysms.

[arofili]

Dwarves of Middle-earth Edit Series: Appendix B

Continued from Appendix A. This section will contain information on Longbeards outside the Line of Durin, the Firebeards, the Broadbeams, the Ironfists, the Stiffbeards, the Blacklocks, the Stonefoots, and the Petty-dwarves.

~~~

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Appendix A: Dwarf-fathers, Line of Durin (work in progress) Appendix B: Misc. Longbeards, Firebeards and Broadbeams, Ironfists and Stiffbeards, Blacklocks and Stonefoots, Petty-dwarves (you are here!)

~~~

MISCELLANEOUS LONGBEARDS

Balin’s Colony ft. Balin, Óin, Ori, Flói, Lóni, Náli, Frár This story is mostly canon, but with a LOT of embellishments! We don’t know the specifics of how many dwarves went with Balin, so all the numbers here are made up. Sometimes I try to flesh out every member of a group like this, but with ~70 dwarves involved by the end, I decided just to stick to canon names. I included a special mention of dwarrowdams for Day 4 of Khazad Week :) I do try to depict female dwarves as a little bit feminine in this series, but that’s only for when they’re safe at home—dwarrowdams who travel are very practical about it, and would appear to outsiders to be male. Thus, the sisters Lóni and Náli are very masc indeed (at least, that’s my excuse for not making them more femme). That Lóni and Náli are dwarrowdams is entirely headcanon; the only thing we know about them, and about Frár, is that they died when the Bridge of Khazad-dûm was taken. Flói is referred to with he/him pronouns in the text, and the manner of his death and burial is canon, but everything about his relationship to Ori is headcanon. We don’t know if any other dwarves came to join the colony after it was established, but I thought it was entirely possible, so yeah. I don’t think any children came, though; that would be far too dangerous, and dwarves are too protective of their children to risk something like that, even if Balin promised everything was fine. Balin’s death and the subsequent battles are canon, but I added a lot of details. Óin and Ori’s argument is entirely made up, but Óin did take a group of dwarves to the West-gate, and they did find the Watcher there, and it did “take” Óin. Only four dwarves made their way back to Ori; we don’t know exactly what happened to the rest, but it’s certain that none survived, or we would’ve heard about them coming to Rivendell, or something. The details of that return journey are headcanon. We know that Ori wrote until he couldn’t write anymore, with his words falling off the page, but we don’t know exactly how he and the rest of the dwarves died, just that they did. Durin VII’s descent from Dwalin is entirely headcanon, but that is the king who is prophesied to take back Khazad-dûm at last!

~~~

FIREBEARDS AND BROADBEAMS

Notes that will probably get placed elsewhere once I do the rest of this series:

The Broadbeams and Firebeards are canonically part of a “pair” of dwarf clans descended from two dwarf-fathers that woke together. My headcanon is that while there is a fair amount of overlap, the Broadbeams live mostly in Nogrod and the Firebeards live mostly in Belegost.

I headcanon that dwarves don’t assign gender at birth or with any correlation to sex. “Male” is the most common gender (among the dwarves that we see in canon) but that has nothing to do with sex. So, a lot of male dwarves are what we might call transgender, but that term doesn’t exactly apply to them. Therefore there are a lot of same-gender dwarf marriages, and many of those can result in biological children.

Úri and Linnar ft. Úri, Linnar, Thrár, Dvalinn [tba]

Gabilgathol (Belegost) ft. Azaghâl, Thalor (OC), Sacha Bodruith, Fimli (OC) I’m doing this one very much out of order for Khazad Week 2022, Day 1: First Age & Family! We don’t know the canonical translation of Azaghâl’s name, but it’s likely related to battle and is speculated to mean “warrior,” which is what I’m going with. We don’t actually know the Khuzdul names of most dwarves, so I’m interpreting that to mean that dwarves are given names in the language of the other peoples they live around—in this case, Sindarin—but Azaghâl is a special boy who likes the Khuzdul name he earned from his own people, and since it’s not actually his inner name (which is a closely-held secret) the other dwarves are like Fine I Guess. We know from canon that Telchar made the Dragon-helm and that it ended up with Azaghâl, but Telchar is from Nogrod and Azaghâl from Belegost so I had it exchange hands that way through a marriage gift. The incident on the dwarf-road is canonical but greatly embellished. Azaghâl’s participation in the Dagor Bragollach is entirely headcanon. His participation in the Nírnaeth is almost entirely canon. The names Sacha and Fimli are both Gnomish, which is a precursor-language to Sindarin; I think they’re probably bastardizations of some names Maedhros gave to them in Sindarin. The story of the Nauglamír depicted here is a mish-mash of the version from the Silm and the version from BoLT. In BoLT, Bodruith is the King of Belegost and he goes to war against the Grey-elves over the Nauglafring (Nauglamír); in the Silm, Belegost refuses to aid the dwarves of Nogrod in this attack...so I had Bodruith (Sacha) go personally, but the other dwarves refuse. I cut out the stuff with the traitorous elves because it didn’t really fit my idea of how things went down, but I did keep Bodruith’s betrayal of the King of Nogrod. The fallout of that incident is all headcanon. The name Bodruith means something like “vengeance” so I figured that couldn’t be his original name, and had to be given posthumously, so thus I found another name for him. Fimli is my OC and everything he does is headcanon; he appears briefly in my fic “a kingly gift” :) Canon says that Belegost and Nogrod were destroyed in the War of Wrath, but looking at the maps that doesn’t seem like it *must* be true, so I have it damaged but eventually restored. Bonus: the triangle symbol I used in the title (△) is the alchemical symbol for fire :)

~~~

These are all the edits/headcanons I have shared so far - this post will be regularly updated as I share more!

Last Updated: 12/8/22

[elvcnson]

The idea that some people have of elves being prudish or bashful in terms of sex or sexual innuendo has always amused me. Legolas is thought to be anywhere from at least 2898 to 4000 years old...I assure you there are scarce few things that can shock him 

[valacirya]

Indis appreciation post!

Disclaimer: All the canon info is taken from Morgoth's Ring and Peoples of Middle Earth. Also, this isn't a character analysis/meta. It's just a list of stuff I love (plus some headcanons) about one of my favorite characters in the legendarium.

1. She's athletic and outdoorsy. We're told that Indis is "exceedingly swift of foot" and that "she walked often alone in the fields and friths of the Valar, turning her thought to things that grow untended." When Finwe sees her, she's chilling on a mountainside. I love that she's associated with nature, specifically the wilderness. She parallels Feanor in her exploration of Aman and interest in the imperfect. Also, this is purely self-indulgent but ever since reading HoME for the first time, I've pictured Indis as tall and broad, and muscular beneath a layer of fat.

2. She doesn't let her unrequited love affect her life. "There was ever light and mirth about her." She's not the pining, languishing princess stereotype. She goes on. She doesn't let it make her bitter or depressed, and she is so restrained that only Mandos and possibly Ingwe are aware of her feelings.

3. Part of her attraction to Finwe is intellectual. In HoME we're told that his "mastery of words delighted her." Considering that Indis is also a poet/composer ("wove words into song") and that the Vanyar enjoy linguistics, it makes sense. It's also just really cute.

4. She's politically minded. Her reasoning for pronouncing 's' instead of 'th' is: "I have joined the Noldor, and I will speak as they do." This is the right thing to do to gain the respect of the Noldor and their acceptance of her authority. I also think she makes a statement with Fingolfin and Finarfin's mother-names. Arakano ("high chieftain") and Ingoldo ("the Noldo, eminent among the kindred") are not only powerful, prophetic names, they're also strikingly similar to Ingwe ("chief of chieftains") who is the High King not just of the Vanyar, but all Eldar. What a power move.

5. She's able to balance her own culture with the culture she marries into. Indis integrates into Noldorin society easily while remaining Vanyarin at her core, as is evidenced by Finwe saying that "above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingwe and the peace of the Vanyar." Her sons also respect and are proud of their mixed heritage; Finarfin "loved the Vanyar, his mother's people" and is said to be like them (as are Finrod and Galadriel), and Fingolfin's daughter-in-law is Vanyarin (plus the Nolofinweans have a special connection to Manwe).

6. She gets an awesome prophecy about her line. "But I say unto you that the children of Indis shall also be great, and the Tale of Arda more glorious because of their coming. And from them shall spring things so fair that no tears shall dim their beauty; in whose being the Valar, and the Kindreds both of Elves and of Men that are to come shall all have part, and in whose deeds they shall rejoice. So that, long hence when all that here is, and seemeth yet fair and impregnable, shall nonetheless have faded and passed away, the Light of Aman shall not wholly cease among the free peoples of Arda until the end." Fuck yeah.

7. Her name means "valiant woman." This is the only definition given in Morgoth's Ring, I believe. I highly prefer it over the "bride" meaning because it's a badass name and is similar to Artanis ("noble woman") and Astaldo ("the valiant"). A headcanon that I'm particularly attached to is that Indis's mother-name is Indome, meaning "will of Eru."

8. She's popular with most of the Noldor. We're told that "Finwe, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, sister of Ingwe; and the Vanyar and Noldor for the most part rejoiced." The majority of the Noldor also follow Fingolfin and Finarfin instead of Feanor.

9. She's friends with Nerdanel. HoME states that Nerdanel went to "abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed."

10. She gets pissed off at Finwe when he sides with Feanor. So much so that he thinks she won't want to see him if he's re-embodied. I know this is from his perspective but I'm inclined to agree. [However, this is still very presumptive of him, and his comment that "Indis parted from me without death" is super shitty. Eugh.]

11. She's close to her kids. Finarfin takes after her, Fingolfin passes on the name she gave him, Findis lives with her, Lalwen goes by the name she gave her. Finwe also says that "she hath dear children to comfort her."

So there we have it! What little info we get about Indis is pretty awesome. And this is just a list; I could write a whole essay on her fortitude and unconventionality and my numerous headcanons about her.

[undercat-overdog]

Another day, another three bad language takes.

I think that has to do in part with how it's seen as important, even necessary, to care or "know" about the conlangs and to have opinions on them. ("Know" is in quotes because lbr, there's a lot of wildly incorrect, uninformed, and plain stupid misunderstandings and incorrect information out there.) Like you're seen as a better fan, or more respectable fan, if you talk about it.

That shouldn't be the case! You can be a huge fan, a knowledgeable fan, a well-versed fan, and not know or care about the conlangs. Unfortunately it is the case that fandom rewards bad takes about linguistics over no takes about them and so the bad takes spread.

If you want to opine about the sociolinguistics and politics around language, please read at least the Shibboleth of Feanor and after that Quendi and Eldar. And read them, not a summary you see on tumblr. (I can give more detailed recommendations if anyone's interested, but the Shib will get you what fandom goes on about and Quendi and Eldar great info about different elven group names and divisions).

If my opinion means anything (and it doesn't), you have my permission to not give a fuck about Quenya. But if you do, at least go off the actual text and not tumblr?

Edit: this was a bit intemperate but truly not aimed at any one person, rather the fandom as a whole. Which is arguably more intemperate, but I cannot count how many times I have seen takes that fundamentally misunderstand not just the conlangs, including their historical development, but the way language and languages work.

[lesbiansforboromir]

Why do you think Aragorn as accepted as a King? They don't have blood tests to confirm his identity and he is not even from Gondor (was probally born here, but not raised)

Oh no Aragorn was not born in Gondor, canonically speaking he was born in the north amongst the northern dunadain and that is his cultural heritage. And not only that, Aragorn's claim to the throne is legally shakey at BEST. His only claim to the line of Meneldil (original King of Gondor after Anarion and Elendil's deaths) is through a female line, which used to be an accepted path to kingship in Numenor, but was since entirely discarded by both Gondor AND Arnor (so not even Aragorn's own direct ancestors agreed with letting women rule kingdoms) And a previous legal ruling on this PRECISE ISSUE decreed that Aragorn's ancestor DID NOT have a right to Gondor's throne. So yes it's a good question isn't it? There are two answers!

#1 Gondor is still a partial if not full theocracy. This is one of those aspects of the book that doesnt really make sense unless you understand all the character's actions through the lense of catholicism and religious faith in general. Aragorn is 'Estel' or 'hope', but when people say 'hope' in Middle-earth what they mean is faith etc.

In lotr meta-logic the divine right to rule is a real thing that actually exists, god (Eru) literally wants Aragorn to be king. The characters within the story are aware of this to varying degrees, Boromir being one of the few characters who properly disregards this and wishes to view Aragorn's claim on it's own merit. Even Denethor knows and understands that Aragorn is chosen by god, and he's very bitter and angry about it! (good for him). But in general, all other characters including all Gondorian lords are 'faithful' or 'elendili', and within this religion the only people who could be called 'priests', who can bridge the divide between man and god, are their Kings. So, religiously, if Aragorn IS sent by god to rule them, then they would be committing a kind of heresy to refuse him. And remember, god literally exists in Arda canonically and so therefore does sin and heresy, not just in a moral way but also in a literal like... fact of nature kind of way.

So when Aragorn arrives in Pelargir with an army of ghosts it gives Lord Angbor FAITH in him. When Gandalf, an angel literally doing god's will, is his friend and expressly supports his claim the other lords of Gondor also are inspired to have faith in him. Aragorn spends a good deal of time after the siege of minas tirith ticking divine checklists for 'guy who should be king', he is not making a legal argument for his right to the Gondorian throne, he is making a religious argument for his right to rule over the entire population of 'the faithful' which includes Gondor AND Arnor, destroyed or not.

There WOULD be discussion though! Not everyone in Gondor is dunadain and not everyone is faithful in the way that the dunadain are faithful. Culturally the northern and southern dunadain have been seperated for 3000 years and a lot of people would have issues with being ruled by someone so other to them, even if he had lived among them for 10 years (though that does help). But in the end the lords of gondor are almost all dunadain and they all have to abide by the tenets of their faith, or '''fall''' and become '''lesser men''' than even the rohirrim (terrible I know 🙄) so they really had no choice but to support Aragorn in the end.

However, reason #2

Minas Tirith's armies were absolutely decimated after a weeks long siege and war before that, and what few soldiers were left were exhausted and barely functioning. Aragorn arrived at their gates and broke the siege with a full army who'd only done ONE fight and told everyone he was king of Gondor. What was Imrahil gonna do, say no?

[edennill]

to quote this post (basically about a conceptual golden age empire; people have already been tagging it as númenor), which got me thinking:

none of it is sustainable. it's collapsing under its own weight and the rot eating at its heart, its bottomless hunger barely kept at bay. it's a society that isn't built to last or be outlived.

***

I think that the last generation of númenor knew that it was to be the last.

they never tried to ensure a hypothetical future -- there wasn't really a new generation growing up to take their place. some scattered children, yes, but the concept of children and heirs implied that they wouldn't after all be immortal, and that was something they would not countenance. said out loud or not, the feeling went: either we live forever -- or après moi le déluge. after me comes the flood.

I think that had he not set off on his disastrous venture, ar-pharazon would have begun executing people left and right when he realised his death was near, out of mere jealousy at the fact that someone might live and enjoy life when he could not. if he could have ensured for númenor to be destroyed, he would have done so.

***

and that other fundamental instability -- of conquest... they had subjugated half the world already, and were running out of space. what sauron promised them, after all, was at least as much about new worlds for conquest as about immortality.

what they craved, in the end, was not life. it was ever-increasing power. that was why they were afraid to die -- that out of necessity it put a cap on one's ambitions. sure, you were encouraged to put hope in whatever awaited after. but you knew, deep inside, it would not be that which you had, because what you had was built on greed and on pride. you were never encouraged to put your hope in vices.

[straynoahide]

tolkien meta: the melodic structure of the ainulindale, arda's endgame, and the doom of men

so basically this is about what one can learn and connect to the rest of the legendarium's lore from the ainulindale, and also peer into tolkien's psyche as a side effect i guess. expect excessive theology or more fun imo philosophy of divinity and lengthy tangents about melkor, the nature of evil and theodicy

a small disclaimer - this touches thorny topics in philosophy like the problem of evil, the nature of redemption/salvation, death...

this isn't about my beliefs but presenting and reflecting on tolkien's own within the history of ideas. i acknowledge anyone who reads this also has their own, and can agree or disagree with tolkien. my views may seep in unintentionally but i try to go deeper than that.

pd: I write Eru/One/God indistinctively on purpose. it's for rhetorical emphasis, not so much out of (cultural) christianity.

part I - introduction (in this post) part II - the themes/structure, discussion part III - discussion (cont): themes of arda and life part IV - discussion (cont 2): theme of the children part V - discussion (cont 3): aftermath/second music

Introduction (i rec reading even if you're versed in the lore)

for those who are not so familiar with parts of the legendarium but still interested in a deep dive, the ainulindalë ("song of the ainur") is the creation myth of tolkien's world.

i rec just reading it if you haven't even if it's after reading this. it's quite beautiful and unique and it's brought admiration even from ppl who study that kind of thing professionally about real cultures. i'm not given to flattery but idk just check it out.

so anyway, the ainur, spirits born from the One creator's mind directly, sang under (or despite) His direction and the melody (both harmony and discord) that resulted, is the history of the world.

by the world we have two concepts here, the entire universe (eä) and the planet (arda) 'earth', of which middle-earth is a later-stage continent. the music itself was a creative process that the ainur partook in before knowing the full implication of their singing.

God showed the ainur the vision of what their music had created and when they saw the world they wanted to live it, to dwell on it and experience it.

God granted this but said they had to remain in it until the full music, the full story had played out.

this includes everything that happens in the Silmarillion, the LOTR movies and sequels/prequels, the TROP series, games, etc, and in some stages of Tolkien's opus, our own world (WWI, WWII, etc).

the Discord refers to the rebellious effect of Melkor on the music as much as his part of the music - the dissonance born from his part's coexistence with the rest of the melody that is in harmony, and takes a 'life of its own'.

this is not unimportant, but i'm not going to discuss it at any point. i will point out here that it has been argued -controversially- by some people to be relevant in compatibilizing or explaining otherwise difficult-to-reconcile lore points that deal with "non-Melkorian evil". this is about things like Ungoliant or the nameless things 'whose mention darken the light of day', whose in-world origins are unclear.

on a broader note, this represents two very different intuitions about evil and divinity (Tolkienian v Lovecraftian, we could say). these are difficult to compatibilize and more than Tolkien's psyche, represent ancient tensions within monotheistic religions themselves, i think. so within Tolkien's world, which has an Abrahamic/monotheistic god, you still find traces of Lovecraftian horror.

all that follows is about Tolkienian evil (meta) i.e. Melkorian evil (in-world), that is uncontroversially and explicitly under the governance of the One, although non-Melkorian evil is a fascinating subject.

[meldelen]

What does Sauron feel for Galadriel?

I'm aware I might be not saying anything new or original, I've read and queued other good metas that basically stand for my point as well; nevertheless, I feel like sharing my two cents concerning this. Sadly - or not - it will be another long ass read.

To be honest, whatever is going between Galadriel and Sauron is one of the main show's assets. Love it or hate it, the show would not be the same without this spice. And the way it is presented leaves no one indifferent. I could talk about this from Galadriel's POV, but I think I'll be going for Sauron's first, if anything because I find it more fascinating, as we're talking of a character that isn't even human, and the main villain, of course. And I'm doing it mostly concerning the show, even if I know Tolkien's books since I was 12. Unfortunately I can't analyze every single scene they share because it would last forever, but I'll try to focus on the ones that have more resonated with me.

Even if Galadriel is undoubtedly one of the most famous elves in Middle Earth, it doesn't look like Sauron knew her before meeting her in the sea. It is pure chance - apparently so - they meet and are taken together to Númenor. In these first moments he's mostly indifferent - and even hostile - to her, per their dialogue, except the moment he dives in and saves her from drowning amidst the storm. From that moment, a confidence grews between them as she's reassured in her position - which he never disclaims - of thinking he's a fallen king from a Southlander throne. Disguised as the human castaway Halbrand, the most fascinating about Sauron, I think, it's that he never lies to her, but doesn't make an effort to take her out of her incorrect assumptions. While not being honest to her, he seems to drift away from her as he pretends to "start anew" - through his long learnt abilities as smith -; while, at the same time, he gets drawn towards her by their kindred spirits.

Which is the start of it all. Sauron recognizes in her someone alike, fierce and relentless, prideful, ambitious and reckless. I think the discussion in the forge, after she drops him in the middle of a plot to return to Middle Earth and crown him, is highly underrated. He only wants to be left alone, she apologizes for having used him, and then confesses - thinking she talks to a friend and not a deceiver - that she can't stop, that because she was compared with the evil she was fighting they mutinied against her and was sent away. She also drops Finrod's line of needing to touch the darkness if one want to reach the light.

Halbrand's reaction to this is priceless. His expression, both shocked and emotional once he realizes she might be just the only one in Arda that might understand him - they mutinied against him as well, he ended a castaway. And then he expresses his condolences for her suffering and particularly, the death of her brother. Now, I believe he was genuinely sincere here, that he really felt for her grief. But being set on the path of becoming something different, it's precisely Galadriel who puts him out of it. Who sends him again to his former path. The horror of it all.

He never gets to tell her who he really is, and only admits it when he's discovered, because there was no way back once this is uncovered. Charlotte Brändström has confirmed that Galadriel loved Halbrand - rather, I think, the idea of Halbrand - in first season, but after the mask falls she won't love Sauron - for obvious reasons. He then offers her the most valuable position he can give her, but what does he offer?

To make her a queen. A queen, mind, not his queen. Now, I know shipping is nice and fun, but for all the tenderness he put into the offering - the warm voice, the chin caressing, the flattering and the temptation; "You bind me to the light and I bind you to power" - I can't avoid seeing that he never offered himself as part of the bargain. Love is selfless and you must give yourself for it to be real. As Charlie Vickers have well put, he does not see her as an equal. It is not a marriage/lover alliance of a king and a queen ruling together with love as a seal between them. Sauron appeals to her ambition, not to her heart. Even in that moment, before the blast of Orodruin, where they got the most intimate and close - "Fighting at your side, I felt... if I could hold on that feeling, bind it to my very being.." "I felt it too" - he is talking about fighting, and power, and ruling. And she understood it lately, when telling Adar he promised her an army, not himself. Maybe she meant something else in that moment, but he meant an alliance. And alliance in which they're not equals. A queen, but not his queen.

He has no queen. There's only one Lord of the Rings, and he does not share power.

I understand it's very tempting and frankly easier to read this in a romantic code, but I can't forget it's Sauron we're talking about. He's not human, he does not feel and act as human always, he's been awake since the creation of the world and he hardly can see an elf as an equal. The way he tried to manipulate her by taking the shape of Finrod, the long lost brother, and twisting his words to sway her will - it was beyond cruelty. It was Machiavellian, sadistic - and it was only the first of many offenses.

Even before wrapping her in his thrall he throws at her face all the sentences and reasons she had told him before, when she thought he was Halbrand the southlander and not the Dark Lord. Twisting her own words and shooting them at her like arrows - no, you said my past didn't matter, you told me to be free of it. Putting before her eyes the fact that he's back thanks to her and her alone. And that she's now isolated, for no one will accept her once it is known she's the reason he's back. Presenting himself as the only one who would take her, flattering her leading and ruling talents in his benefit, wrapping it with the cover of a redeeming light. Bastard.

Thankfully, Galadriel acknowledges his abuse and manipulation and actively rejects him. What does Sauron do then? He leaves her to die. Tied in his thrall, drowning, back to the point where she was sinking when he saved her, when she still did not mean much to him, but enough to care. Now it's over. You've chosen to refuse me, so die. Go back to the starting point.

And in that moment, he meant her to die, for she had hurt his pride. He's not a scorned lover but a narcissist that has been confronted in his arrogance, and so she has to pay. There is not love in any of these actions. In a fit of rage, he had let her to die. If Elrond wasn't around when he pulls her out of the pound, she would've drowned.

That fit of rage passes, and as it happens, he has time to reconsider his position. Does he know she has survived? What matters is that he moves to Mordor and directly sells her to Adar. Telling his former lieutenant that she has aligned with Sauron - !!! - and both must be stopped. He sells her location and sets an army of Uruk against her and Eregion. Dressing this betrayal as heroism as he endures torture for the sake of the soutlander prisoners, who get free thanks to this bargain.

Are these actions belonging to one who loves? It is atrocity after atrocity. Per his actions you can't tell he's in love, rather the opposite. You could say he's actively punishing her and plans to keep making her pay for her refusal. But of course, he's not driven solely by scorn and revenge, it's not even his main goal. Enter Celebrimbor and the Eregion plot.

When it would seem Galadriel is out of his mind, then this scene with Mirdania happens. Taking advantage of her vulnerability and terror of having seen him in his true form - even if Mirdania herself isn't aware that it was him who she saw in the Unseen World - Annatar flatters her and caresses her hair, comparing her beauty with Galadriel's. Yes, I know it's very satisfying to watch how he praises Lady Galadriel's beauty in front of another woman, in a moment of intimacy, but yet again, I don't see how this can be love.

It is obsession, and of course, manipulation. Playing a double game: one, to recruit Mirdania, to gain her confidence and devotion - he's well aware of what Mirdania is starting to feel for him! - by flattering her - your were so brave, your hair looks like Galadriel's in this light - because we should remember that Galadriel is famous for her beauty, but particularly for her hair is said to remind powerfully of the light of the Trees of Valinor, a light that was encased in the Silmarils. A light she refused to Feänor when he asked her strands of her hair.

Second, it is not only she won't leave his mind, at this point, he's starting to obsess with her, he covets her. He covets her and at the same time wants to punish her for her rejection. Again, I hardly see love in any of these actions. And it is horrifying how he later dismisses Mirdania's life after promising her reward, because she meant nothing to him. Galadriel, on the other hand... cut to the final temptation.

The most shocking in that last fight is that he starts by effortlessly blocking her attacks, for he does not want to hurt her - as he tells her himself. She goes berserk on him, driven by fury and rage, and all he does is blocking her, until he's forced to slash her to remind her who has the upper hand there - she's no match for him, even if she's a skillful sword fighter. In that moment, he's still in control of himself, and even he allows himself to playfully spit her back again the words of Finrod, twisted by his own interpretation: touch the darkness. Many fans have seen a lewd expression and breathing in that point - I think he's mostly panting for the fighting effort, but if there's any lust as you want to read it, then yes, it's lust for getting her, control her, for humiliating and proving her wrong again by drawing a false equivalency between him and her. In his mindset, of course. Innerly, though, he is searching for a servant, a slave if you want. Not a lover, not a partner.

Special mention to those shocking words, when she accuses him of having deceived and manipulated her all the time, and he answers it was "not all of it", for yes, I will concede him that he was genuine. He never lied. He had an honest feeling of starting anew. He saw in her a kindred spirit, and that is not gonna change. He might be admitting he cares/feels something for her, even in his own toxic, twisted way. Truly, the range Sauron has in acknowledging his feelings and not suppressing them, also in admitting them and use them as weapons, has me baffled. Maybe one of the most fascinating traits of him as character.

Galadriel won't stop attacking and rejecting him, so he loses his patience, particularly after being brutally kicked in the chest and thrown over the rocks. Then he pulls again his most cruel card by letting her see Halbrand again - the one she got to love, and he's well aware of it. But the thrall won't work anymore, so he switches to herself and Celebrimbor, to keep mocking her with cruelty, to draw again this false equivalency between them.

And when nothing of this works, and she keeps attacking him even after he offers again to join him, he has again one of those fits of rage and goes ballistic on her, until he resorts to the most brutal, sadistic resource: in what I think it's the foulest allegory of rape I've ever seen, he nails her to the rock by stabbing her with Morgoth's crown. Which is not just a mean to hurt her physically, rather, he actively forces the bond she has rejected to establish with him twice by then. Only blood can bind, and the iron crown already contains his blood after Adar stabbed him with it. His blood and Galadriel's blood merge and then the connection happens. His enraptured expression at this moment is both mesmerizing and revolting, for he's doing that against her will, while dragging her across the stone surface and twisting the spike inside her wound to increase her pain, so excruciating a tear runs down her cheek. While he repeats her he would've made her a queen, and put all Middle-Earth at her feet. Then he pulls out of her and watches as she drops to the ground. Truly brutal and sadistic. The punishment goes on and on.

After this he gains the ability to communicate to her telepathically and to watch her movements. Probably, also to know her thoughts more clearly than before. And he must have thought to command her will also, for she manages to trick him into believing she was going to give him Nenya, and after that she lets herself fall back on the verge of the cliff. Does he, with an alarmed expression, reach for the coveted ring, or for her instead? Does he do it for both? The fact is that he lets her fall.

And even immediately we see he's watching her, for the unwanted connection also allows him to spy on her. Again, he's making sure the ring is safe, or is she his concern? I'm gonna say he was rather checking on her. Nenya is made of mithril and adamant, so very unlikely to have taken damage for a fall.

Why this contradiction? His brutality and cruelty on her hardly fits someone who loves, and he has actively tried to kill her twice by now - always in a fit of rage, not all the time, as Vickers has explained. He didn't want to hurt her - when calm - and yet he forcefully bonded himself to her and enjoyed doing so, not minding her physical and mental agony in the process.

I can't see the slightest glimpse of love in all this abomination. He might have found someone so alike to the point of making him feel alive again and set him back on the path of world domination, but he's an older, immortal, cruel superior being who's been too long under suffering, darkness and despair himself. This is not an absolution, though. I still think he could've chosen differently, but as much as the next narcissist, when challenged or refused he takes a brutal, unrighteous retaliation and doesn't mind to make her suffer for it. Yet it is obvious he feels something for her, so she gets a special treatment if we compare Galadriel with the other lives he so quickly dismisses - much to her disgrace, though.

And I think it's this obsession of him, of having found someone so alike to him who could've been at his service - not at his side! - which makes he won't suffer that this someone refuses him and actively seeks to fight him. For that, he'll make her pay again, and again, and again, while claiming she's special to him, while tempting her with promises of power and light that aren't real. If anything, she'll eventually get the same treatment Celebrimbor got, as soon as she fails or rebels against him. As Morgoth did to him.

The fact the ship is so successful is tied to the fact that Sauron, for all his ancient origins and immortality, is still very human in his emotions and doesn't mind to open and show them. And the fact that once, Galadriel loved Halbrand, or rather the idea of Halbrand. He knows that, and it flatters him. It pushes his pride further, it lifts his ego even higher. He enjoys interacting with her in this twisted way and so playing with Galadriel might become his new entertainment, until bending her to his will, which is to make her serve... not to love her at all. That's why he won't kill her either, as long as he keeps that rage under control.

I thank the show for opening this world to us, for surely it's one of its best potentials, and unlike many haters claim, it is rooted in Tolkien's lore itself, which doesn't contradict. It its truly a complex dynamic and I'm sure many fans, specially shippers, might disagree with me, but this analysis doesn't intend to cancel anyone, rather the opposite. Shipping is fun and nice, but for me it's also important to acknowledge this dynamic is deeply rooted in abuse and keep in mind that Galadriel deserves all our credit for resisting his brutality and calling out his cruelty and manipulation, which a fair form can't mask after all, and they're doing right in not to bend to other narratives that might end quite differently, or burden a higher cost on the abused character, just for the sake of a temporary satisfaction.

[thegreatzombieartisan]

Rings of Power + Tolkien Fusion Meta

Elvish Love, Sex, and the Single Maia

“Elves only love and marry once.”

Yeah, the Laws and Customs of the Eldar (Elves) aren’t this clear-cut. Foremost, Elves reflect Tolkien’s devout Catholic ideal including his strongly held belief in the dangers of unbridled sexuality. Also, Tolkienverse runs on morality and mysticism, not science.

Update: After performing direct research and analysis on Tolkien’s LACE text, I’ve come to new conclusions. I’ve highlighted updates in this post in blue. Otherwise the rest remains aligns and unchanged.

For Elves love =/= marriage. Most unions are love matches but at . However, Tolkien did write about Elves who love yet never wed à la courtly love. Elves that love with our reciprocity, even when married. Moreover, of lusty Elf men who wed Elf maidens with dubious consent gained from questionable means.

But sex complicates things. Elves are monogamous. And it's not just culturally.

Elf sex = marriage = binding. Elf marriage = intent + sex or binding of hröa/body and fëa/spirit. Since Elves are inherently bound to Arda’s fate through their fëa/spirit, marriages are thus eternal.

Most couples have children early in marriage and with each child, their sex drive would diminish. It infers that sex (at least cultural) is viewed as being primarily purposed for begetting of children. Based on that, though not explicitly stated in text, it’s also inferred that “real” sex, that kind that led to bringing, would be was PIV (pen-in-vagina). Perhaps a consolation price strong incentive for eternal monogamy, Elf sex is intensely pleasurable.

For Elves, choosing the right partner critical. Divorce doesn’t exist. More accurately, divorce can’t exist because Elves can’t unfuck-bind themselves. But the Valar, spirit stewards of Arda who favor the Elves, are capable. Otherwise an unhappy Elf couple could lead separate lives, and maybe love others, but not remarry.

Can widowed Elves remarry? In the uncommon event an Elf dies, its spirit is summoned to the Halls of Mandos (aka purgatory). After an unspecified amount of time, the Valar will typically reincarnate them. During this Time of Waiting, both dead and living Elf spouse remain bonded. Upon reincarnation, the formerly dead spouse returns home like returning from a very long trip to the store for bread.

As it stands, the Valar will unbind a widowed Elf’s marriage in these rare events: the dead spouse refuses the summons to Mandos (usually evil Elves), eschews reincarnation like Míriel (Celebrimbor’s great-grandma), or denied the opportunity like Feanor aka “Mr. Fuck the Morgoth, Valar, and Teleri Elves.”

Therefore, in RoP, even if Celeborn were indeed dead, he and Galadriel are still bonded. But look, the way she said, “And you? My king?” sounded thisclose to RISKING IT ALL for power and sitting on Halbrand’s handsome face for eternity.

Asking for a friend: Can Maiar and Elves “marry”? Yes, with ample space for speculation and theory

The only canon union between a Maia and Child of Iluvatar (Elves and Men) was Melian and High-King Thingol. They begot Luthien, a powerful Elf and fairest Maiden ever. She even once beat Sauron in a duel.

Maiar are disembodied Eälar or spirits that contrasted with fëar/spirits of Elves and Men. Halbrand is Sauron’s fana/physical form he can change like clothes. But far as an Maia-Elf marriage aka sexy times goes, it’s unclear if it’s inferred binding is like Elven marriage because begetting children requires mutual intention to impart each parent’s spirit to the child. But either way, it doesn’t provoke any mystical moral cockblocking.

Well, one thing is clear: Melian literally fucked around, begot Luthien, and found out such activity had a side effect. She became permanently bonded to her fana. Donning a new fana requires the death of the bonded fana. To note, even though Melian bonded to an Elven fana, she retained her Maia spirit class.

What if Thingol had an Elven wife in the Halls of Mandos? Understand that Elves live on Middle-Earth to guide Men toward a righteous path. Elves and Maiar cucking dead Elf spouses certainly defies Tolkien’s “ideal devout Catholic” behavior. Assuredly he’d invent some mystical punishment to reenforce monogamy. Perhaps even Valar intervention but if they let Morgoth and Sauron run wild, I doubt it. But without precedence, it can only be speculated.

But renegade Maiar like Melian and Sauron do not give a FUCK nor need the Valar’s approval. If they want to fuck elves, THEY WILL FUCK ELVES.

Thus, irrespective of likelihood, conscience, or wisdom, no laws bar love and/or sex between Galadriel and Sauron. Platonic besties, chaste courtly love, or cucking Celeborn to the end of Arda - do you, you crazy kids. Since she is still married to, the closet thing to binding with Sauron would be with a 3rd party conduit and magic. Like a blood oath. Or rings of power (teehee).

Many challenges exist to a productive Galadriel and Sauron union beyond the metaphysical. And the most awkward would follow her spirit husband’s reincarnation. Imagine Celeborn discovering Morgoth’s first lieutenant has been railing his wife for centuries (now that’s a good fanfic prompt).

Thank you for reading! Your likes and reblogs are appreciated. Got feedback?

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