#arda meta

[laoih]

I really like this take, thank you for writing it!

I just can't reblog it without comment because I would like to point out that the final message is not that all things fall apart, inevitably and irredeemably. There is an ongoing theme of hope (estel if you will) going through the stories for the First Age, and technically it's also at the end of the Quenta Silmarillion, just not in Christopher's revised version.

But the hope for a better future at the end of everything, the hope for the wounds of the world to be healed and redressed, is certianly there.

This does not change the fact that they keep going and enduring because it's the worth to keep going.

The reason I don't categorise the Silmarillion as grimdark - despite the relentless disintegration of both the characters and the world, the endless death and loss of self - is that it is a story about people trying.

Even in the middle of what, at the height of Morgoth's power, must have felt like the end of their world, the story is full of people who keep on trying to do something right. Fingon's forgiveness and rescue of Maedhros, Finrod's self-sacrificial friendship with Beren, Gwindor's determination to help Turin, a complete stranger that he literally met five minutes ago. Celebrimbor gifting the elfstone to Idril in the hope that it would bring her comfort, Maglor adopting Elros and Elrond.

Even the things that go really spectacularly badly, like the battle of unnumbered tears, are born out of a determination to keep trying, keep fighting, even in the face of impossible odds.

The final message of the Silmarillion, its literal epilogue, is that things fall apart, inevitably and irredeemably. And yet, in the middle of the falling apart there people fighting for love and forgiveness and brotherhood and every time one of them fails or dies or gives up, it hurts all over again, because they really wanted to keep going. Not even necessarily out of a hope that things would get better, but out of a belief that it was worth doing anyway.

Even if you lost.

[eri-pl]

It will be chaotic, because I can't force myself to make a structured post about it, I don't know why. Also sorry if my autocorrect does something stupid, I'm writing on the phone.

So, the Legendarium and causality, and good deeds, bad deeds and their results. This is the main topic of this post.

Is this post about the Legendarium? About real life? Both? Well, it surely is about the Legendarium, but not only. It's fuzzy. One of the things I like with tolkien is that such discussions get fuzzy and thinking about the books gives me insights about life.

There is a rule which I try to follow when writing or even planning something more serious (in the Legendarium context, but in general too, unless specifically going for a genre that's different): if a long-term success (in something that matters) is achieved by doing something morally wrong, those conditions must be fulfilled (not necessarily all clearly written out, but I must at least have a vague idea):

1. It could have been achieved in a good way, and it wouldn't be lesser. Or it wasn't really that important. (Because I refuse to accept "necessary evil")

2. Either something bad came out of it, or someone has to put effort into it not happening. I'm not sure how to explain it better (see later about handling other people's bad choices)... Anyway this makes the story feel more satisfying, more interesting.

3. How much of 2 is needed is proportional to how bad the thing was. Also if the character couldn't be expected to know much better, point 2 is less intense, though it's often still more interesting to have it.

I wonder how close to canon is this rule. Anyway I like it. Also, I tend to assume at least 1 when interpreting the canon, which likely influences my opinion about the Feanorians and the whole Silmaril business.

I'm not saying this is a 100% rule in real life, or even a technically 100% rule in te Legendarium, because omniscience is tricky… but it is a good rule in writing, I think, and even more so it definitely is a good rule in approaching decisions. If something can't work in a moral way, it won't work anyway or is not worth it. Nothing really worthy can be permanently lost by making the right choice. And so on.

It seems like there would be a symmetrical rule of good deeds not resulting in bad events but then we have the Children of Hurin. And what did Hurin do wrong? I have no idea.

But then, the Men are generally... And you could also look at Maedhros, but then, the exiled Noldor, and SoF in particular are also, hmm, I think "marred" is the word I should use here.

Still, I really prefer if there is something good coming of from good deeds, even distant and not seen by the person doing the good deeds.

Also, there seems to be is another rule, it's outright said. Things always turn out into a good ending, and you can either go with it or fall under it.

Example: gollum. He could have cooperated and jumped with the Ring willingly. He chose to betray Frodo, fell with the Ring anyway.

You also can, obviously, do a creative mix of going along and falling under. (Must I say: the two oldest Feanorians, it is this obvious?)

And falling under makes things more difficult for everyone, not just the person doing it.

Darn, I made this sound ugly and tyrannical. It's not. But I remember when I would say it is, and I can't explain why it is not. It's kinda like when you do a weird thing with your eye muscles and start seeing double. It's just not. I just can't explain it in a way this deserves. My apologies.

Anyway, bad choices make things difficult for everyone. Because we are connected to each other. I've already made a post about it long time ago, but generally...

Maybe if Saruman wasn't such a jerk weed have a Sauron redemption. (Maybe, it's always a maybe)

Maybe if Maglor didn't take pity on the twins, Númenor would fall much earlier and Sauron would be more successful. And so on and do forth.

It's always a maybe, and nobody determines anybody else's choices, but still, we do impact each other. It's hard to think about, because it's over if the places where a) it's worth to try b) there's no guarantee of anything... (Which are most places, I guess). Both on the Silm and in life, people are interconnected. But also everyone is responsible for their decisions.

It's hard to not blame characters (or people) too much. It's hard... In general it's wonderful but difficult, the whole concept.

And another thing tired to this very closely, tied to the interconnectedness (is this a word?) is unearned suffering and Hurin and Nienor and Miriel (both tbh) and Feanor back before he was a jerk and many others.

Sometimes we get the outcome of someone else's bs without even consenting to it. Why? I suppose it's because the connectedness is now important than "not getting random bs thrown in your life". Maybe. Probably. I'm not wise, ok? I'm not sure it's my heart, but something's telling me it's something like this reason.

And what can we do

Argue. Rebel. Just take it. There are many things we can do. I'm not going to go on a rant about what Feanor (or Finwe) should have done and so on because I don't want dfw and others to have a bad time listening to me criticizing their guy, and also I wasn't in his position so I shouldn't be ranting. I should go rant at myself or something.

But the things aren't going to solve themselves or disappear. So yes, just taking it is a very noble and beautiful thing to do (and hard as... Idk what's hard. A Silmaril is hard, I guess)

Because it's so very infuriating when someone else's bs lands on your head.

Oh how I wish I could handle it better.

Back to the Legendarium. Someone handling it better generally yields results, see: the Long Peace. And probably many other situations.

And of course there are situations when the bs you have to handle is your own and if you don't handle it, it will fall of everyone else's heads. This doesn't necessarily make it easier to handle. :( Sometimes someone helps, and that's nice.

Yet another question is how realistic a book should be.

Should it portray lots of undeserved suffering, of badly handled undeserved suffering (CoH), because it's part of life? Should it portray hope triumphing against reason (B&L, and remember that Beren was just as much a Man as Turin was), to give people an escape?

I think (maybe it's rather obvious) that we need both, because depending on personality and circumstances, we need both validation and acknowledgement of our pain, and hope that things can be better. Both kinds of stories are necessary.

It may sound untrue, and sometimes I wish I was a kind of person who can live with only hopeful stories, because the day ones are what I need when I'm not doing well— but no. We do need both, at least in terms of "what most of the story consists of". We need ways to express pain without an immediate answer.

It's a sad song.

But we're gonna sing it anyway.

Until we finally get it right and the sad parts start making sense.

And let's not even get into "sad stories where people mess their lives up so much because that's how freedom works, yes, they can do that" because I have absolutely no idea what to say about those.

[edennill]

ok, but how much did the numenoreans know about the fate of men? because...

the thing is, when you share Tolkien's Faith, the way it's always presented as such a huge mystery is almost funny. because you can so, so easily guess -- well, not even guess, you just know what he meant; it has to be the same as ours, whereas in-world it's always "well, mandos knows, and maybe manwë". kudos for being aware of something most of the valar aren't, then.

but how much do the numenoreans know or guess? they say "we must die and go we know not whither" and I used to pity them a bit for that uncertainty -- which, of course, would not excuse anything, but might be disquieting, especially when you're placed next to the immortal elves. we seem to be pointed towards the edain of the first age having no beliefs they were certain about in regards to this, going only on hope -- one of the closest things we get is when hurin has his moment of defiance to morgoth: "well, you cannot keep on tormenting us after we die! then we're out of your reach", but interestingly, as far as what concerns us here, he replies to an accusation that he's just repeating what the elves taught him (which is not a valid counterargument, but never mind), saying that no, it just came to him in that very moment. in general, we get the idea that they know very little, though some of them vaguely hope for something good (and I do wonder whether news of Beren shook things up at all, even if he did not, after all, meet the full fate of men that first time, just waited in the hallway).

so far, so good, if a bit bleak, but then we get to The Mariner's Wife, and Meneldur's dramatic monologue:

'May Eru call me before such a time comes!' he cried aloud.

and

'I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?

and you could read it differently; to be honest the polish translation gives less room for doubt, which may colour my interpretation, but it does seem that he knows, or guesses with seeming certitude, and that is such a different attitude from everything else I've mentioned.

what have I to say to this? nothing except that beliefs may have grown or changed. I am very far from an expert on this, but, within ancient Israel which might be the closest analogue, and was even mentioned in connection to Númenor by Tolkien, beliefs regarding the afterlife seem to have indeed evolved with time; compare, say, the Psalms with (2nd) Maccabees (*the latter is in the Catholic Bible, but not in the Protestant ones, if you're puzzled) or Wisdom?

yes, it's not much of a conclusion, l admit, but there isn't really anything else I might say, unless it were to add that third age gondor seems to be somewhere in between, with a vague and hopeful sense of something, aragorn's "and beyond [the circles of the world] there is more than memory" and faramir's "till that time, or till some other time, beyond the reach of the seeing stones of númenor" (italics mine) being the relevant quotes. (the rather dramatic, if you think about it, context for the latter, being that faramir is probably well aware neither he nor frodo are that likely to see the next month. also worth noting that the italicised phrase is in text paired with the image of an alternatively possible - though "beyond hope" - meeting where they could "laugh at old grief, in the sun")

(the rohirrim seem to have their own beliefs, but they also seem to come with their own traditions, which, while not on the most part incompatible, may at times have been different. on the other hand, what we have is not much less vague either, just cloaked in different terms, so there isn't much evidence either way.)

[contemporaryelfinchild]

I want to say I love that it's an anime. I've actually always said that I think an anime adaptation of things from the Silmarillion for example would be amazing. I strongly disagree with one comment here so far that it's bad to adapt stories across cultural art forms or, Eru forbid, have non-european-styled characters or aesthetics in a Tolkien adaptation. The fandom has been doing that for a long time to really beautiful results. From the trailer this is very clearly based in Peter Jackson, Anglo Saxon inspired, Tolkien envisioned culture for Rohan. It's conforming shot for shot to the popular expectation of how everything should look and sound. It's not even playing with any of that. It does still seem to fall into annoying tropes, like which characters have face tattoos? Who has darker skin? What are we supposed to assume about them? (I hope that ends up being subverted come oooonnn, the Picts are right there for tattoos!) Even if this were an adaptation that radically diverged from Northern European aesthetics I'd still love that. As I said, fandom has been playing at that for a long time. There are two things that I think are simultaneously true about Tolkien. 1) As an epic and an incredible story there are elements of it that are universal! People from all over the world are going to keep enjoying it and putting their spin on it forever and ever and that's beautiful. I want more of that! I love how it speaks to people. 2) There are also real elements of it that will be English no matter what. No matter how you dress it up, the language, motifs, assumptions, and cultural context will always be baked into it. From mead-halls to song battles to dragons on hoards of gold. (Personally, I would LOVE an adaptation that actually tried to translate all the cultural elements to somewhere else as well. What would Chinese Smaug hoard as a river spirit? What would Daoist magic instead of music magic look like? XD I say go for it it would be a really cool exercise to see if you could hit all the same notes.) This is another adaptation, but in The Rings of Power I'm so exhausted by people complaining about a black elf! Oh no! (rolls eyes). It doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt the story (unlike the bad writing) and it doesn't even touch any of the cultural bedrock. Personally, I think like GilGalad could have been black. I think leaving all canon characters white was a cowardly cop-out. That's my 2 cents and if Giorgia Meloni would agree with your take maybe do more thinking. Okay rant about Tolkien adaptations aside and back to this anime! I think the trailer looks a little cheesy. Why is the Watcher here lol. And it seems like it's doing that thing that all Tolkien adaptations do now where they just quote the Peter Jackson movies and call it good enough for the money. Also I agree that this doesn't seem to be a shape of female character that my heart yearns for (omg give me a gender swap Tolkien adaptation someone pleeaassee. Someone give me a butch Rohimin lady plleeeaassee. Make a Grima Wormtongue like character who is a greasy evil woman. I'm just saying people like TazMuir are out here doing the real work.) But! There are some really beautiful shots. The animation looks lovely. It has the chance to delve into the history in the Appendixes and do really cool world-building to flesh things out. And trailers are often more cheesy than the real thing, it could be quite interesting! I'll try it when it comes out for sure.

Hey Tolkien fandom, how we feeling about this o.O

[novemberthecatadmirer]

Headcanon about Morgoth, the Void and Dagor Dagorath

My crazy headcanon is Morgoth initially stole the Silmarril because he wanted to make sure Yavanna could not use them to make new Trees. Yes the gems were beautiful but he had no use for them.

Then in the horrible Unlight he looked at Ungoliant, this creature from the Void, this being that just existed and eating and eating and never create anything, this thing that’s hunger itself, and realized, Oh.

He realized he could become something like this. Actually, he would become something like this. He already lost the ability to create and he could feel the desire to destroy, the desire to twist and eliminate everything others created, that desire was growing stronger and stronger inside him. He remembered originally he knew what he wanted to create, he wanted to undo the world and build a new one in his way. But now he could no longer recall the full picture of his new world. It was a past dream that was quickly fading, replaced by the wish to just destroy everything. Like a Spider.

He realized he was slowly becoming a Spider. He was already on this path. He had used his one chance to turn back to firmly push himself further down in this direction. Too late.

The family he betrayed, they knew, some of them. He remembered Namo listening to his yelling like some of those elves listening to their horrible kids throwing a fit. Nenna cried for him. Este tried to invite him for tea and demanded him to “heal himself.” Ulmo hated him. Yavanna stayed away from him like he was some kind of foul things that will make her sick. Varda looked at him with that mocking, knowing smile. “I know where you are going,” she once mouthed to him. He remembered Manwe looked so sad. “Why are you doing this to yourself?�� His brother, too good to understand evil, ever so condescending, asked him with real concern. He hated it.

Now he understood. Indeed. Why would anyone do this to themselves? Why would anyone condemn themself to become a Spider and end up being claimed by the Void? Of course Manwe knew this. He was the one who knew the most about the vision of Arda. He was the one who knew better. Unable to understand evil? How do you understand why someone do something, when you fully understand doing that brings only harm to themselves? How do you understand why someone do things that will make them a slave of the Void?

Probably the One was the only one that could forgive him now. If he begged. But he would not beg. He might have threw away everything but he had his pride.

The Silmarils burned his hands. Good! That meant he was still NOT a Spider. How foolish the Ungliant was to ask for the gems. He did not know what would happen if the Spider touched them, but nothing good. Maybe they’ll cancel out each other, the Strength and Love and Hope of this world and the Hopeless Hunger from the Void existed before the world was made.

He was going to keep the gems. He was going to clench them until and after the end of this world. He was not going to let them go. They were going to keep him safe, AWAY from the Void. With the Silmarils he would never become a Spider. Everything was going to be well.

——————————

I think the Silmarils really mattered more to Morgoth than them mattered more to anyone else. My headcanon is the more depressed you are the more attractive the gems feel to you. Morgoth basically was drowning in Nihilism in the end of his character arc.

The worst thing to happen to an artist that live for making things is losing the ability to create. Morgoth did that to himself. He did not knew it; he thought he was just going to have fun destroying other people’s artwork and his own creativity would bear no harm. Actually he was the one who got harmed the most. Yet he still would not regret and say sorry and mean sorry, because he would always try to convince himself there would be other solutions (world domination and the Silmarils) that would help him without hurting his pride and forcing him to take responsibilities.

(The evil is clever but also stupid.)

It’s interesting that Morgoth ended up in the Void soon after losing the Silmarils.

My crazy headcanon is the Valar did not push Morgoth into the Void. They would not do that to anyone.

The Void came for him. The Void claimed him, because he was already a creature of the Void. Then the Void swallowed him whole.

He would never escape.

——————————

As for the Dagor Dagorath? My headcanon is it’s not Morgoth breaking out of the Void. Instead it was going to be the opposite way round: It would be Arda sliding into the Void.

When Arda Marred got so aged and damaged, it started to slide into the Void like Morgoth and ungoliant did. That’s why human were so important in that; a lot of elves probably were just too depressed to fully reject the Void.

(Morgoth would escape but that hardly mattered. He would already became a Spider and it would be like a drowned cat trying to climb onto a sinking ship in desperation.

Also that’s why the human left Arda would “return.” They did not. The world just joined them instead. And they’ll be able to rekindle the world with the Hope they found in places out of the world.

[aeide-thea]

this tolkien meta points out some parallels i'd never particularly considered before, but the main thing it made me realize, which is tangential (and also negative) so i'm sticking it in its own post, is—why is tolkien so obsessed with niblings?

thorin has nephews. bilbo has a nephew. théoden has niblings. and with both thorin and théoden we know they're the children of a sister who gets no screentime. (denethor's sons via a long-dead wife get an honorable mention in this category also.) and part of me thinks: isn't this basically, conscious or not, a strategy that lets tolkien write about dynasties while effectively eliding the sex and marriages—and women!—that produce them?

which is easy to shrug off with the argument that those things aren't the stuff of Adventure, but rather of the society the adventurers leave behind them; but at the same time, it's all of a piece with the deeply sexist, deeply catholic ('sex must occur only within the confines of marriage, which becomes a euphemistic container for it') sensibilities that permeate tolkien's work more generally. like—look at homer. look at vergil. the domestic and familial can absolutely appear in epic. women can appear in epic.*

and of course you can say, well, tolkien's work is really more in dialogue with anglo-saxon and germanic traditions, and i'd have to admit i haven't read those stories since i was a preteen (watch me now get really into the nibelungenlied/völsunga saga/eddas…); but iirc even those featured fewer women who were always-already-dead!

⸻ * obviously éowyn does in fact get significant screentime in lotr! and even in a way where she's involved in Actual Affairs and not, like goldberry and galadriel, just a pretty symbol of the adventurers' temporary reentry into a settled sphere. but you notice that she both has to take on a male role in order to take part—she can't just fight, she has to become 'dernhelm' to do it—and that she's restored tidily to proper wedded femininity by the end of the story (hoo boy can we talk abt faramir literally wrapping her in his dead mother's mantle). anyway. loved éowyn growing up and also very vehemently think people (often women!) who claim her narrative isn't in fact sexist because it's about tolkien ~valuing healing~ are closing their eyes to how that narrative functions when it's applied to a woman specifically.

[outofangband]

I actually wanted to repost this ramble about Morwen with edits now that I’m almost done with one of the relevant posts 

It’s been awhile since I’ve rambled about Morwen being accused of witchcraft so I just thought I’d confirm that I’m still absolutely obsessed with it and all its implications and possibilities. It remains one of my very favorite details for so many reasons. 

I love that Morwen is genuinely feared by awful people and I love that their prejudices and superstitious, almost certainly ones Morgoth would foster and encourage as a being who delights in spreading discord and turning people against each other, actually work to protect her, at least in part. It’s thematically appropriate

I’m probably going to make another post about the linguistic implications from the line “Witchwife they called her and shunned her: Witchwife it is but elf friend in the new language”. I made one here already but I’ve done some more research to add. It’s such a fascinating word and the fact that human sorcerers of any kind are rare (in Arda) and the use of the word witch with with those gendered connotations is even more rare just makes it more intriguing 

Anyways as always my tag for this stuff is word ran among them if you want to blacklist it

[elithilanor]

Did Arda only get water tides (eg low, high, king) after the creation of the sun and moon? Or does something else create gravitation pull and waves, such as Ulmo? Or are there simply no tides in Arda given that the moon doesn’t seem to be restricted in a gravitational pull around their world, but rather placed specifically?

Thoughts?

[ospreyeamon]

the shape of arda

I've always had trouble deciding whether I prefer the cosmology as explained in The Silmarillion or one closer to the version in 'Myths Transformed' Tolkien began working on where Arda is always round and the sun and moon pre-date the Trees. On one hand I do like the idea of a world of eternal night and the first humans waking in the light of the first sunrise to hold it in adoration afterwards. But on the other hand there are things that annoy me about it, like how changing the shape of the world didn't destroy massive swaths of it in tectonic disasters, where the extra sea and land needed to cover the gaps came from, and that the sun first rises from the west.

O how I hate the idea of the sun rising in the west. The insistence that Aman is the ultimate source of all light and civilisation, flowing through the Eldar and Númenorians who have been uplifted by the Valar making them superior to all who refused it or never had it offered to them at all, is incredibly obnoxious.

While 'Myths Transformed' can be taken as proof of in-universe knowledge of planetary roundness, that does leave the question of how the mythic flat world came to be recorded by people you would expect to know better; the Ñoldor received teaching from the Valar who surely must have been aware of the shape of the world if they created it. However, I do have an idea about how it could have happened…

🎇🎆

Valar: Well done team – one circular world and it is absolutely perfect.

Melkor: What a stupid shape for a planet. I think *smash* that this *crash* will be a much better one!

Valar: ...let's try again somewhere else and pretend this never happened. If we refuse to accept the Marring of Arda and keep hope things will get better maybe the problem will magically fix itself through the power of positive thinking.

🌳🌴

Manwë: *to the elves* ...and all the layers of the Airs stretch as far as the Encircling Sea. They touch the Walls of the World, beyond which lies the Void where my beloved Varda’s stars shine.

Ulmo: Don't you think you should mention that this is only true for Aman and that Arda is round? And just because the sun and moon didn't turn out quite the way we hoped that doesn't mean we should encourage the elves to forget about them entirely.

Manwë: I think that the fact Arda should be flat is more important. The sun and the moon are old news; the Trees are much better. Just look at the way the light drips – Yavanna really out did herself with them.

1️⃣

Fingolfin's Host: It was amazing how the sun appeared just as we arrived in Middle-earth. Definitely an omen of the coming of good things.

Fëanor's Host: Actually, it was already day over here. You just didn't see the sunlight before you passed the end of the dimensional verge at the edge of the Hel... carax...

Fingolfin's Host: *glaring intensifies*

1️⃣

Ñoldor: Your ancestors must have decided to journey to Beleriand because at their awakening they saw the sun rising from the west and loved it as we love the stars.

Humans: Actually, according to our people’s lore the sun has always risen in the east and set in the west. The first elves we met – we have mentioned them before; they live beyond the mountains and don't have glowing eyes which is why we didn't realise you were related to them at first – told us that their kin had gone into the west to dwell in a land without famine or sickness where the dead can return to life. We thought that sounded like a really nice place to live.

Ñoldor: Let us explain to you why your traditions are silly and wrong.

2️⃣

Faithful: How could anyone doubt that the cosmology taught to us by the elves is correct? They were gifted the knowledge by the Valar themselves.

King's Men: A bunch of people circumnavigated the world by sailing across the Eastern Sea until they emerged from the Sundering Sea. They brought some weird birds they violently appropriated from a distant continent back with them.

Faithful: Clearly this is a conspiracy to trick us into breaking the Ban of the Valar so doom will fall upon us.

3️⃣

Third Age Scholar: It's strange how all these ancient texts describe the world as a disc even though we know it to be spherical. Perhaps the nature of Arda was changed during one of those continent-destroying cataclysms.

[arofili]

Dwarves of Middle-earth Edit Series: Appendix B

Continued from Appendix A. This section will contain information on Longbeards outside the Line of Durin, the Firebeards, the Broadbeams, the Ironfists, the Stiffbeards, the Blacklocks, the Stonefoots, and the Petty-dwarves.

~~~

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Appendix A: Dwarf-fathers, Line of Durin (work in progress) Appendix B: Misc. Longbeards, Firebeards and Broadbeams, Ironfists and Stiffbeards, Blacklocks and Stonefoots, Petty-dwarves (you are here!)

~~~

MISCELLANEOUS LONGBEARDS

Balin’s Colony ft. Balin, Óin, Ori, Flói, Lóni, Náli, Frár This story is mostly canon, but with a LOT of embellishments! We don’t know the specifics of how many dwarves went with Balin, so all the numbers here are made up. Sometimes I try to flesh out every member of a group like this, but with ~70 dwarves involved by the end, I decided just to stick to canon names. I included a special mention of dwarrowdams for Day 4 of Khazad Week :) I do try to depict female dwarves as a little bit feminine in this series, but that’s only for when they’re safe at home—dwarrowdams who travel are very practical about it, and would appear to outsiders to be male. Thus, the sisters Lóni and Náli are very masc indeed (at least, that’s my excuse for not making them more femme). That Lóni and Náli are dwarrowdams is entirely headcanon; the only thing we know about them, and about Frár, is that they died when the Bridge of Khazad-dûm was taken. Flói is referred to with he/him pronouns in the text, and the manner of his death and burial is canon, but everything about his relationship to Ori is headcanon. We don’t know if any other dwarves came to join the colony after it was established, but I thought it was entirely possible, so yeah. I don’t think any children came, though; that would be far too dangerous, and dwarves are too protective of their children to risk something like that, even if Balin promised everything was fine. Balin’s death and the subsequent battles are canon, but I added a lot of details. Óin and Ori’s argument is entirely made up, but Óin did take a group of dwarves to the West-gate, and they did find the Watcher there, and it did “take” Óin. Only four dwarves made their way back to Ori; we don’t know exactly what happened to the rest, but it’s certain that none survived, or we would’ve heard about them coming to Rivendell, or something. The details of that return journey are headcanon. We know that Ori wrote until he couldn’t write anymore, with his words falling off the page, but we don’t know exactly how he and the rest of the dwarves died, just that they did. Durin VII’s descent from Dwalin is entirely headcanon, but that is the king who is prophesied to take back Khazad-dûm at last!

~~~

FIREBEARDS AND BROADBEAMS

Notes that will probably get placed elsewhere once I do the rest of this series:

The Broadbeams and Firebeards are canonically part of a “pair” of dwarf clans descended from two dwarf-fathers that woke together. My headcanon is that while there is a fair amount of overlap, the Broadbeams live mostly in Nogrod and the Firebeards live mostly in Belegost.

I headcanon that dwarves don’t assign gender at birth or with any correlation to sex. “Male” is the most common gender (among the dwarves that we see in canon) but that has nothing to do with sex. So, a lot of male dwarves are what we might call transgender, but that term doesn’t exactly apply to them. Therefore there are a lot of same-gender dwarf marriages, and many of those can result in biological children.

Úri and Linnar ft. Úri, Linnar, Thrár, Dvalinn [tba]

Gabilgathol (Belegost) ft. Azaghâl, Thalor (OC), Sacha Bodruith, Fimli (OC) I’m doing this one very much out of order for Khazad Week 2022, Day 1: First Age & Family! We don’t know the canonical translation of Azaghâl’s name, but it’s likely related to battle and is speculated to mean “warrior,” which is what I’m going with. We don’t actually know the Khuzdul names of most dwarves, so I’m interpreting that to mean that dwarves are given names in the language of the other peoples they live around—in this case, Sindarin—but Azaghâl is a special boy who likes the Khuzdul name he earned from his own people, and since it’s not actually his inner name (which is a closely-held secret) the other dwarves are like Fine I Guess. We know from canon that Telchar made the Dragon-helm and that it ended up with Azaghâl, but Telchar is from Nogrod and Azaghâl from Belegost so I had it exchange hands that way through a marriage gift. The incident on the dwarf-road is canonical but greatly embellished. Azaghâl’s participation in the Dagor Bragollach is entirely headcanon. His participation in the Nírnaeth is almost entirely canon. The names Sacha and Fimli are both Gnomish, which is a precursor-language to Sindarin; I think they’re probably bastardizations of some names Maedhros gave to them in Sindarin. The story of the Nauglamír depicted here is a mish-mash of the version from the Silm and the version from BoLT. In BoLT, Bodruith is the King of Belegost and he goes to war against the Grey-elves over the Nauglafring (Nauglamír); in the Silm, Belegost refuses to aid the dwarves of Nogrod in this attack...so I had Bodruith (Sacha) go personally, but the other dwarves refuse. I cut out the stuff with the traitorous elves because it didn’t really fit my idea of how things went down, but I did keep Bodruith’s betrayal of the King of Nogrod. The fallout of that incident is all headcanon. The name Bodruith means something like “vengeance” so I figured that couldn’t be his original name, and had to be given posthumously, so thus I found another name for him. Fimli is my OC and everything he does is headcanon; he appears briefly in my fic “a kingly gift” :) Canon says that Belegost and Nogrod were destroyed in the War of Wrath, but looking at the maps that doesn’t seem like it *must* be true, so I have it damaged but eventually restored. Bonus: the triangle symbol I used in the title (△) is the alchemical symbol for fire :)

~~~

These are all the edits/headcanons I have shared so far - this post will be regularly updated as I share more!

Last Updated: 12/8/22

[soothingmoonlight]

#silm#fëanorians#the sons of fëanor explored all over aman in their youth they're used to life on the road#and specifically noted as “abode seldom in one place for long”#makes sense they'd have little diffculty adopting to the Laiquendi lifestyle#I mean even during the siege they're less stationary than eg the Nolofinwëans#constantly visiting each other and organizing patrols out into lothlan and ard-galen#(Celegorm and Curufin are off visiting Caranthir when Aredhel reaches their territory as just one example)

tags by @waitingforsecretsouls

A meta I must write, and will.. one day, is about how in the Silmarillion is stated that the sons of Fëanor were “scattered” after the Nirnaeth and, at first glance, the thing makes remarkably little sense, particularly since they apparently manage not only to keep their own safe while scattered (after a retreat to Amon Ereb), but also to have an army co-ordinated and organised enough to march on Doriath during the winter and win that war in unfamiliar enemy territory and, likely, heavily outnumbered.

Still the thing starts making more sense if we consider the perspective from which the “writer” of the Silmarillion writes: the perspective of Gondolin, a society founded around the city as a hidden haven, which sees (with its own reasons) leaving it behind as impossible, with Doriathrim influences, thus yet another culture founded around the concept of a “hidden haven” the fall of which would mean death. Yet this is not true for the Fëanorians, or even the people of Fingon and Fingolfin who, living in territories so near an active border, would have to have developed a “fallback plan” to use should the worst come to pass.

My theory is that the Fëanorian and the non-Gondolidhrim Noldor to a lesser extent, had planned a possible “nomadization” well in advance and thus their scattering served the double purpose of making them less visible to Morgoth and preventing them from ending up in a non-defensible position. Which would also explain how Maedhros can try and offer allegiance later to Elwing as a bargaining chip, and have an army strong and organised enough to survive on his own and even win armed conflicts.  Naturally becoming a nomadic people had its prices, particularly for the Noldor, still I think it was a smart move and a well planned one, particularly since Amrod and Amras already seem to lead a semi-nomadic people.

[elvcnson]

The idea that some people have of elves being prudish or bashful in terms of sex or sexual innuendo has always amused me. Legolas is thought to be anywhere from at least 2898 to 4000 years old...I assure you there are scarce few things that can shock him 

[undercat-overdog]

Another day, another three bad language takes.

I think that has to do in part with how it's seen as important, even necessary, to care or "know" about the conlangs and to have opinions on them. ("Know" is in quotes because lbr, there's a lot of wildly incorrect, uninformed, and plain stupid misunderstandings and incorrect information out there.) Like you're seen as a better fan, or more respectable fan, if you talk about it.

That shouldn't be the case! You can be a huge fan, a knowledgeable fan, a well-versed fan, and not know or care about the conlangs. Unfortunately it is the case that fandom rewards bad takes about linguistics over no takes about them and so the bad takes spread.

If you want to opine about the sociolinguistics and politics around language, please read at least the Shibboleth of Feanor and after that Quendi and Eldar. And read them, not a summary you see on tumblr. (I can give more detailed recommendations if anyone's interested, but the Shib will get you what fandom goes on about and Quendi and Eldar great info about different elven group names and divisions).

If my opinion means anything (and it doesn't), you have my permission to not give a fuck about Quenya. But if you do, at least go off the actual text and not tumblr?

Edit: this was a bit intemperate but truly not aimed at any one person, rather the fandom as a whole. Which is arguably more intemperate, but I cannot count how many times I have seen takes that fundamentally misunderstand not just the conlangs, including their historical development, but the way language and languages work.

[edennill]

to quote this post (basically about a conceptual golden age empire; people have already been tagging it as númenor), which got me thinking:

none of it is sustainable. it's collapsing under its own weight and the rot eating at its heart, its bottomless hunger barely kept at bay. it's a society that isn't built to last or be outlived.

***

I think that the last generation of númenor knew that it was to be the last.

they never tried to ensure a hypothetical future -- there wasn't really a new generation growing up to take their place. some scattered children, yes, but the concept of children and heirs implied that they wouldn't after all be immortal, and that was something they would not countenance. said out loud or not, the feeling went: either we live forever -- or après moi le déluge. after me comes the flood.

I think that had he not set off on his disastrous venture, ar-pharazon would have begun executing people left and right when he realised his death was near, out of mere jealousy at the fact that someone might live and enjoy life when he could not. if he could have ensured for númenor to be destroyed, he would have done so.

***

and that other fundamental instability -- of conquest... they had subjugated half the world already, and were running out of space. what sauron promised them, after all, was at least as much about new worlds for conquest as about immortality.

what they craved, in the end, was not life. it was ever-increasing power. that was why they were afraid to die -- that out of necessity it put a cap on one's ambitions. sure, you were encouraged to put hope in whatever awaited after. but you knew, deep inside, it would not be that which you had, because what you had was built on greed and on pride. you were never encouraged to put your hope in vices.

[iridescentoracle]

There definitely are meteorites on Arda, which we know specifically bc there are swords notable for being made from meteoric iron!

per “Of Túrin Turambar”:

[Anglachel] was a sword of great worth, and it was so named because it was made of iron that fell from heaven as a blazing star; it would cleave all earth-delved iron.

Another thought (actually the reason I got on lead poisoning in the first place): Did the elves use metal in Cuiviénen?

There are three… three and a half? options here:

No, not at all

Yes, but only metals found in mostly-pure "native" form, chiefly gold, silver, copper

Yes, they'd invented smelting

Yes, they'd also started producing alloys

The argument against smelting is that it doesn't really fit with the one-with-the-world, pastoral vibe of Cuiviénen. Smelting takes a lot of fuel (axes! oh noes!), it often produces toxic byproducts, it's kinda (shudder) industrial. On the other hand, on Earth it developed a very long time ago it's not the only kind of early material culture production process that gets icky… (Tanning, prominently, but you can use hides without tanning them if you maintain them carefully so that's not necessarily present.)

Most important teaching the Valar offered: the cheat codes to engage in metallurgy, tanning, etc. without poisoning themselves and their surroundings? Or you could say the elves already knew how to get metal to do what they wanted without all that.

So:

Kinda want to do another poll on tanning now…

[valacirya]

Indis appreciation post!

Disclaimer: All the canon info is taken from Morgoth's Ring and Peoples of Middle Earth. Also, this isn't a character analysis/meta. It's just a list of stuff I love (plus some headcanons) about one of my favorite characters in the legendarium.

1. She's athletic and outdoorsy. We're told that Indis is "exceedingly swift of foot" and that "she walked often alone in the fields and friths of the Valar, turning her thought to things that grow untended." When Finwe sees her, she's chilling on a mountainside. I love that she's associated with nature, specifically the wilderness. She parallels Feanor in her exploration of Aman and interest in the imperfect. Also, this is purely self-indulgent but ever since reading HoME for the first time, I've pictured Indis as tall and broad, and muscular beneath a layer of fat.

2. She doesn't let her unrequited love affect her life. "There was ever light and mirth about her." She's not the pining, languishing princess stereotype. She goes on. She doesn't let it make her bitter or depressed, and she is so restrained that only Mandos and possibly Ingwe are aware of her feelings.

3. Part of her attraction to Finwe is intellectual. In HoME we're told that his "mastery of words delighted her." Considering that Indis is also a poet/composer ("wove words into song") and that the Vanyar enjoy linguistics, it makes sense. It's also just really cute.

4. She's politically minded. Her reasoning for pronouncing 's' instead of 'th' is: "I have joined the Noldor, and I will speak as they do." This is the right thing to do to gain the respect of the Noldor and their acceptance of her authority. I also think she makes a statement with Fingolfin and Finarfin's mother-names. Arakano ("high chieftain") and Ingoldo ("the Noldo, eminent among the kindred") are not only powerful, prophetic names, they're also strikingly similar to Ingwe ("chief of chieftains") who is the High King not just of the Vanyar, but all Eldar. What a power move.

5. She's able to balance her own culture with the culture she marries into. Indis integrates into Noldorin society easily while remaining Vanyarin at her core, as is evidenced by Finwe saying that "above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingwe and the peace of the Vanyar." Her sons also respect and are proud of their mixed heritage; Finarfin "loved the Vanyar, his mother's people" and is said to be like them (as are Finrod and Galadriel), and Fingolfin's daughter-in-law is Vanyarin (plus the Nolofinweans have a special connection to Manwe).

6. She gets an awesome prophecy about her line. "But I say unto you that the children of Indis shall also be great, and the Tale of Arda more glorious because of their coming. And from them shall spring things so fair that no tears shall dim their beauty; in whose being the Valar, and the Kindreds both of Elves and of Men that are to come shall all have part, and in whose deeds they shall rejoice. So that, long hence when all that here is, and seemeth yet fair and impregnable, shall nonetheless have faded and passed away, the Light of Aman shall not wholly cease among the free peoples of Arda until the end." Fuck yeah.

7. Her name means "valiant woman." This is the only definition given in Morgoth's Ring, I believe. I highly prefer it over the "bride" meaning because it's a badass name and is similar to Artanis ("noble woman") and Astaldo ("the valiant"). A headcanon that I'm particularly attached to is that Indis's mother-name is Indome, meaning "will of Eru."

8. She's popular with most of the Noldor. We're told that "Finwe, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, sister of Ingwe; and the Vanyar and Noldor for the most part rejoiced." The majority of the Noldor also follow Fingolfin and Finarfin instead of Feanor.

9. She's friends with Nerdanel. HoME states that Nerdanel went to "abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed."

10. She gets pissed off at Finwe when he sides with Feanor. So much so that he thinks she won't want to see him if he's re-embodied. I know this is from his perspective but I'm inclined to agree. [However, this is still very presumptive of him, and his comment that "Indis parted from me without death" is super shitty. Eugh.]

11. She's close to her kids. Finarfin takes after her, Fingolfin passes on the name she gave him, Findis lives with her, Lalwen goes by the name she gave her. Finwe also says that "she hath dear children to comfort her."

So there we have it! What little info we get about Indis is pretty awesome. And this is just a list; I could write a whole essay on her fortitude and unconventionality and my numerous headcanons about her.