#anyways you know how someone is brought up fundamentally changes who they are right. if peter parker is tony starks rich son he would

[fooligancity]

also what the hell is with fans wanting Anyone except aunt may or uncle ben to be peter parkers actual parents. that is not how found family works OR how peter parker works

[alchemistc]

goon | bucktommy | chapter three

check out the hockey glossary here (updated for chapter two)

Prologue | Chapter One | Chapter Two

read Chapter Three on ao3

Tommy's got a plan for the break. It's the same plan as he has every year: spend six days losing every bit of conditioning he's managed to gain over the course of the season by slowly becoming one with his couch, catch up on all the shitty shows he's been neglecting, eat his weight in potato chips and ice cream. Then he'll have one day before practice starts up again where he does weight training so long he wants to throw up, and back to the grind. The usual.

He gets the text as he's rebuilding his nest on the couch, three quarters of the way through day three, and for a long long moment he considers ignoring it.

His phone vibrates on the table again, and Tommy stares apologetically at the movie already queued up to play.

Drinks at Rare Bird tonight. says the text from Chimney, and then, below it, See you at eight. Love Actually can wait

Not a question mark to be found, and he's about to point that out when another text comes in, this time from Ravi.

You have to come tonight

No additional context, again. He's - not exactly unfamiliar with becoming the anchor for an anxious kid trying to find his place - a little mentorship, a little wing-manning, a lot like the guy who'll sit there and just be steady and quiet when someone is overwhelmed and needs a focus point. Panikkar is calm on the surface and an absolute nightmare right under it, a stunning swan with little webbed feet kicking up a storm underneath where all his vulnerabilities are laid bare. Tommy's used to cracking a terrible joke just to force someone so breathless with laughter they forget they'd been holding it, and he's used to that person immediately finding themselves at ease around him.

He has no fucking clue how the front office had known to look for someone to fill that role on the team, but it's become very clear over the course of the last month or so that this in one of the hand-wavey intangibles he's been brought in for.

And Greenway getting traded two days before the All-Star break had fundamentally changed something in the locker room.

There’s always a clique situation in a league like this — D-Pairs like Buckley and Diaz spending so much time together they have their own language that’s incomprehensible to anyone who hasn’t known them as long as they’ve known each other; stars like McKinley and all the guys he’s convinced the front office to sign because he can make them fit the play style they’re going for; the group of guys that jump between third and fourth lines with their heads on a swivel for the first opportunity to take a stab at more minutes; the boys living in their buddies basement apartment and the ones who own a McMansion somewhere in a gated community half an hour away from the rink.

Greenway had made the cliques circle in, shore up for the storm. And Tommy’s an easy-going guy, gets along well with everyone, but — something had lifted, the day they got the news, some tension easing, the groups getting a little less exclusive even just in the single game they’d played after he was gone. There’s no one for Tommy to say “I told you so” to, but he’d patted himself on the back for knowing it, anyway.

Tommy's trying to convince himself not to cave to Ravi and Chim when another text comes in, this one from Diaz.

We're taking bets on which turn Buck's gonna eat shit on this year, you in?

Christ, they live eat and breathe the game.

Tommy's not any better.

Twenty bucks says he beefs it on the third turn, Tommy sends back, before turning off the television and heading towards the shower.

---

There’s a certain artistry to meeting up for drinks with teammates. The dynamics of running into fans has changed, over the years. The social media boom had made it a nightmare for a few years, and Tommy’d spent about five of them walking and talking the faces of the league through panic attacks and generalized anxiety like he was a damn therapist, before he’d discovered that just telling them to go to fucking therapy was enough.

He’d seen a switch after finally escaping the Edmonton bubble, in a world that had spent eight months dialed in to social issues and gained a startling awareness of personal space, so it was a little easier, now, to roll into a bar and meet up with three or four guys without crowds of people demanding selfies. Tommy wasn’t likely to be on anyone’s radar, but he tended to be noticed out in public when he was out with everyone’s favorite.

Today he rolls up with Eddie Diaz in the passenger seat of his truck and hands his keys to the valet. The kid is still sporting a face full of acne, a foot shorter than Tommy and eyeing Diaz curiously as he swivels out of his seat, and Tommy has a moment where he’s sure the kid is gonna forget himself and gush about everyone’s second-favorite d-man in this town, but when his eyes go wide his gaze flicks from Diaz back to Tommy, and Tommy feels completely out of his depth.

“I — sorry, this is so rude, dude, but — you’re my sisters favorite player, man. She’s like, obsessed with you.”

Tommy’s brows go up, and he can feel Eddie’s eyes on the back of his neck as he points at his own chest. “Me?”

“Yeah, man — I mean she sorta hated you when you were with the Kings, but in a weird, like, ero —.” He pauses, and Tommy is grateful for the both of them. “Anyway. She was super excited when we signed you. We were at the St. Louis game. Fucking epic, man.”

Tommy — flounders. It’s been years since he’s gotten anything more than a look of recognition and a glance behind him to see if anyone else has tagged along with him. When Diaz rounds the hood of the truck and smacks a hand firmly down on Tommy’s shoulder, the kid smiles and redirects his gaze straight to Tommy. Which is weird as fuck. What the hell is in the water in this state?

“Thanks,” Tommy says, and Eddie grins charmingly at the kid.

“That’s Kinard, for you. Fuckin’ epic.”

The kid does something complicated with his face, like he’s realized some sort of gaffe, and turns an apologetic look on Eddie. “You’re also, like — I mean you’re great, Mr. Diaz.”

Tommy can’t hide the snort that escapes when Diaz’s face twitches, like he’s trying his very hardest not to react to the name. The kid looks like he’d like the ground to open him up and swallow him whole, so Tommy reaches into his back pocket, pulls a twenty from his wallet, and slaps it in the kids hand before he can say anything else. “Just in case your shift ends before we’re back,” he says, when the kid opens his mouth like he’s going to protest, and Tommy makes a mental note to ask the manager for his name, maybe send the kid a couple tickets to their next home game. Not that the seats need filling, in Denver, but — yeah, he’s a little flattered and it’s always fun to make someone’s day with shit like that.

Tommy shoots the kid finger guns as they say their goodbyes, about half to make the kid feel less self-conscious and half because he’s never been able to break the habit when he’s feeling a little overwhelmed himself. “Tell your sister I said hi,” Tommy says, and it’s Eddie’s turn to snort as they swing through the doors in search of the rest of their party.

---

Ravi’s hands go up the moment he spots them being led through the crowd by the hostess, and he does a celebratory little dance in his seat before he seems to realize his fingers are covered in nacho cheese. Chimney rolls his eyes from Ravi’s left as he reaches for one of the linen napkins on the table, and the woman sitting next to Chimney smiles.

He’d forgotten Chimney was engaged. The last time he’d spent any length of time with Chim, he’d been seeing a girl who didn’t know a single true thing about him.

She’s pretty — long dark hair and deep brown eyes, a quirk to her lips as she smiles at him that feels vaguely familiar, though he can’t quite place it. When he leans in to shake her hand, she introduces herself as Maddie Buckley.

Which he’d known, in the abstract. Of course he’d known, he’s heard Chim and Buck chirping at each other good naturedly for weeks now, really leaning into the idea that they’re soon to be brothers.

She tilts her head to the side, eyes on him as he settles in next to Ravi, Eddie pulling out the chair to his left, and Tommy recognizes that mannerism too — sitting in the locker room after optionals, Buckley already done with his after-practice workout and parked on the bench a few feet away from Tommy (who’d spent the same half hour on the ice taking passes on the move, trying like hell to find a rhythm that could help him keep up with Panikkar) plying him for stories about the year he’d played for the Hershey Bears.

They’re well situated to watch the skills competition, tucked into a corner with a television hanging overhead in every direction, all of them tuned into the pre-show, and as a server comes by to grab their drink orders Tommy stares around the table at the piles and piles of starters laid out and covering most of the available surface area. Chimney clocks his raised brow.

“Listen, there are only so many times a year I’m not under constant threat of death and dismemberment from my future brother-in-law if I so much as think of junk food. Ravi and I are going to enjoy this while we can.”

Maddie tsks. “He’s not that bad,” she intones, although she’s smiling like she’s conjuring a fond memory of her brother being an absolute terror. And it’s not that he hasn’t heard these stories before — Buckley’s sort of renowned for the health-nut thing around the league — but Tommy had also downed three cream cheese pastries with his coffee on the walk back to their hotel rooms, back in Utah, and Buckley hadn’t said a word.

“It’s the silent judging that really gets to you,” Eddie throws in, head tilted up towards one of the TV’s, where they’re showing highlights from the last few All Star competitions.

“He’s never silently judged me in his life,” Ravi contradicts, digging deep into the nachos in search of the strip of chicken buried under the pile. “He’s very loud about it. Whoever gave that man an iPad and Karen Wilson’s spreadsheets should be drawn and quartered.”

“Oooh, are we talking shit about Buckley?” comes a voice from his left, and Lucy Donato sneaks past him to snag a chip from Ravi’s plate.

Donato is technically the most decorated athlete of the lot of them — three golds and a bronze in women’s hockey, Tommy doesn’t have a fucking clue why she’s been an equipment manager for the team for going on four years now but the team loves her, and she seems to enjoy the work. Maybe it’s the roar of the crowd, maybe it’s the camaraderie, maybe the fact that she’d grown up with four brothers factors into it and she’s just happy to have that lovingly antagonistic relationship with the boys again.

“Is this is a safe space to remind everyone that it is not my fault Taylor Kelly wrote that tell-all article for the Athletic?”

At Tommy’s side, Eddie makes a face. “We don’t have to talk about her.”

He’s used to being a little out of the loop, when it comes to the intricacies of team dynamics — every team has groupings of people who live in each others pockets for eight to ten months out of the year, and know a little too much about one another. Tommy’s used to being a witness to it from the outside, to being the aloof mysterious one someone is always bound and determined to crack.

“We could talk about Marisol, if you want,” Lucy says, licking cheese off her finger as she settles into the seat to Ravi’s right, and Eddie shoots her a warning look. “How about Kim?”

“Okay,” Chim interrupts when Eddie opens his mouth to retort. “Hen’s late, but we are still taking bets. Tommy’s got the third turn, my lovely future wife and Eddie are both naïve optimists who think he’s going to learn from last years embarrassment and make it all the way to the end without letting the pressure get to him, I’m going first turn when he tries to build momentum. Ravi, Donato?”

Tommy lets the conversation wash over him. When his drink comes, he doesn’t even get a chance to sip at it before Donato is leaning over the table to steal his spear of cherries. Hen gives the bar-food laden table a raised brow when she arrives with her wife and jumps right into giving Panikkar shit about the condo he’s trying to purchase in one of the nearly-gentrified neighborhoods downtown. When the pre-show ends fifteen minutes later they all turn their attention to the televisions overhead, and Tommy sips at his Old Fashioned, wishing he’d ordered a beer instead.

There’s an element to nights like these that always make Tommy a little wistful. There’s so much history between them all, so much love. Tommy’s not lacking for friends, but he’s never really been a part of something like this. Like family.

When the server comes around to check in about another round, Tommy asks for the beer menu and orders himself an IPA. Anything to keep him from getting too loose-lipped as they cheer on Buckley and McKinley in their skills events.

Buckley eats shit around the third turn in the speed skate, and in his pocket Tommy’s phone buzzes with Venmo notifications as rest of the table grumbles and pays up.

He’s halfway through his second beer, two rounds into the precision shot competition, when Donato rounds on him.

“So. Kinard.”

“Donato.”

Her gaze is assessing, like she’s trying to pin him down, and Tommy has played this game for too many years to do anything but take a steady sip of his beer. “Thoughts on upcoming theme nights?”

Tommy doesn’t particularly pay attention to those. After the shitstorm of the commissioner banning Pride gear, confirming to Tommy that he’d been right, all those years ago, to lean into the toxicity, he’d stopped caring what sweater the equipment team left in his locker for warmups and just tried his best to keep his head down. He spends a long moment holding eye contact, unsure what exactly the line of questioning is about, before Eddie chimes in on his left.

“You do this every time,” he says, finger out, head tipped warningly, and Lucy shrugs, arms up in a gesture of surrender.

“Just trying to take the pulse of things, Jesus. I’m the one that has to deal with it if one of you fucknuts gets too enthusiastic and tapes his stick up in rainbow colors and he throws a tantrum about it.”

Hen and Karen both swivel their eyes to meet his, and the table goes uncomfortably still. He’d been leaning into the misogyny, the last time he’d played for a team Hen worked for, and he’s still not sure if she’d ever noticed how lackluster the comments had been, how close he’d been to finally breaking free of a truly mindbogglingly shitty coaching staff. They’d ended on friendly terms, but other than a few polite questions about her wife, they’ve never really talked about any of that.

Maddie, shockingly, is the one who breaks through the tension. “You went to the Pride parade in Nashville last summer, didn’t you? Buck always makes a note of the guys that do.”

He’d been terrified out of his fucking mind that someone would come to the outlandish (correct) conclusion that he was there as more than an ally, but Tommy didn’t shit where he ate, and Josi drew plenty more attention than he did, anyway.

Tommy nods. “I can tape my own stick and everything,” he says to Donato, brow raised, and she just nods back, apparently satisfied. It’s a relief, even if Karen Wilson has a curious eye on the finger he’s been nervously tapping against his beer since the original question had been posed. He keeps up the tapping for a few more beats.

“Always good to have another ally in the mix,” Hen says, doing something under the table that makes Karen glance away, and Tommy shifts the nerves into pressing his heel firmly into the floor beneath him. He feels like they’re all talking in riddles, trying to piece him together with faulty information, and for a moment, in this little bubble with people who seem to genuinely care for each other, he thinks it’d be easy to just let the cat out of the bag, say the words he’s had on the tip of his tongue for a decade, and in his heart for at least three.

Beside him, Eddie takes another pull off his beer, leans in to Tommy’s side. “Come watch the game at my place tomorrow? Just me and Chris, the rest of these idiots are doing brunch before coaches shindig.”

Tommy sort of desperately wants to tell him that he has a date with his television that he’s already skipped once, but — well, he likes Eddie, and it’d be nice to finally meet his kid. “Will Christopher snitch on us if I bring pizza?”

Eddie grins. “He absolutely will, but Buck’s wrath isn’t enough to stop me. Is it enough to stop you?”

Possibly, Tommy thinks, but instead of admitting that he just asks Eddie to text him his son’s toppings preferences.

---

On the bedside table, his phone lights up, and Tommy turns to grab it, keying in his passcode and frowning at the name on his notifications.

He swipes into his messages and stares at the text for a long, long minute.

Tommy’s never actually come out to anyone in his life. Never said the words, never had them asked — but there are a few people that have figured it out on their own, a few people who have done the work of supporting him while keeping it under wraps.

Sid’s sent him a picture. Not the usual one where it’s mostly his ass in a mirror followed by the number of squats he’s been doing daily. This is a terrible quality photo, shitty lighting in a dark bar, half the screen taken over by a hairy arm because of the angle the camera is tipped at. It’s four in the morning in Tampa, and Sidney motherfucking Crosby has just sent him a selfie of himself with his arm tossed over Evan Buckley’s shoulders.

Both of them are grinning, faces cast in shadow, eyes towards the camera, and Tommy taps into the picture so he can zoom in, stare at the smile lines around his eyes, the edges of a grin — Sid’s smug look like he knows exactly what Tommy had been thinking when he’d asked him to reach out to Buck.

He stares at it until another text comes in.

You should reconsider how off-limits this one is, he won’t shut up about you. Your name has lost all meaning to me.

Tommy swallows. Breathes through his nose, in-out-in-out. Slides his gaze back to the wide smile and rosy cheeks of Evan Buckley, one more time.

Go to bed, old man, he shoots back and closes out the thread.

He stares at the background on his phone: the crest of the hiking trail he’d found, two weeks ago, on a recommendation from Diaz, which he’d hit right at sunset, pinks and oranges and purples bleeding in to the chilly grey-blue sky.

His phone buzzes with another notification, this time from Buck. Tommy considers ignoring it, letting it sit unread at the very least until the morning. His phone buzzes a second time, and then a third.

The first is another picture — better angle, better lighting, better quality in general, exact same pose, including Sid’s knowing eyebrow and the soft sparkle of Buck’s eyes.

You can fly a helicopter? the first text reads, and then, all caps, YOU FLEW CROSBY IN A HELICOPTER ONCE????

Like an idiot, Tommy taps into the picture, presses down, saves it to his phone, and flips back into the thread just in time for another text.

You bet on me falling :(

You WON on me falling :( :(

He should absolutely put his phone down and go the fuck to sleep, but on the off chance that Buckley is stlll hanging out with Crosby, he doesn’t want to ignore Buck. That’d just be rude.

Used the winnings to buy a kid and his sister a suite for the next home game, he shoots back, and ignores the little thrill that shoots down his spine when three dots immediately appear right beneath his text.

That’s annoyingly sweet

Tommy breathes deep. Four-o-nine AM in Tampa. They’ve got a game that starts in less than twelve hours, there. He sends back: Selfish. The sister is apparently my biggest fan.

I���M your biggest fan, comes the text, followed by typing dots. They disappear, then reappear, then disappear again. Tommy doesn’t mean to time it, but thirty seven seconds later they appear again.

Let me know where they’re sitting. I’ll have someone send them your sweater.

then

You wanna sign it first?

Tommy takes a deep breath, and presses the call button.

[undead-potatoes]

Sunny! Don't know if anyone else has asked you this, but tell us about your Rook too please? Class, background, fun fact :3

HAAA I was JUST about to post my own little introduction when you sent this, perfect timing B)

This is my Rook, Ronnie Mercar (he/she/they), a dwarven rogue belonging to the Shadow Dragons faction.

I'm still hashing things out, but the idea so far is that they used to belong to one of the minor noble houses of Orzammar. In their youth they were heavily influenced by the political discourse surrounding the casteless*, as well as their anxieties surrounding what was expected of them by their family and Orzammar society, both of which fed into their more rebellious nature.

Long story short, years of animosity towards her family and Orzammar as whole made her leave the dwarven city behind, a final act of defiance of both. She did regret this decision about 5 minutes after going through with it, but the bridges had already been burned so she had no choice but to keep on going.

He spent the first couple of years just roaming about, surviving mostly of off the valuables he had brought with him from Orzammar and letting the wind take him where it might. This is where his personal and political journey truly began, discovering the world and just how sheltered he had been growing up. He became more and more involved with the "small folk" in his travels, both as a necessity and out of curiosity, which is how he eventually got tangled up in organizations like Red Jenny and later the Shadow Dragons.

It's this journey of someone who lived a very comfortable life, had an awakening that just shook their entire world view to their core, and slowly became more and more radicalized about it. Their activism was probably clunky as fuck to begin with, but after a few decades in the right company they figured their shit out, as you do.

The meta reason they're a rogue is bc I wanted to play one again. The in-universe reason is that they were primarily taught to fight from members of the various groups they ran into, most of which I imagine would be rogues playing fast and loose with the "rules" of combat. They have the body for it too, being very agile and strong in ways similar to a gymnast, with a good amount of upper body strength and a strong core.

Fun facts:

He absolutely cannot stand mushrooms. The texture, the flavor, the way they're in EVERYTHING down in Orzammar, it just all made him hate them with a fiery passion.

Despite being blind in one eye, they're a great shot. You only need one eye for aiming anyways.

She hates it when people shortens her name to Ron. It's either Ronnie, Fevronia, or Rook. Take your pick or fuck off.

*In my canon, the Warden was a casteless dwarf who was made Paragon after the blight, and thus had a noble house founded in her name. She let in all sorts of casteless to her house after its founding, as is the right of any Paragon who founds a house, and I imagine this in combination with King Bhelen making a (former) casteless noble hunter his rightful queen really stirred the shit pot in Orzammar.

For with a society as ancient and rigid as Orzammar, what do you do when that rigidity is fundamentally shaken to its core? When some of the most revered and powerful among you suddenly come from stock you considered a stain on your entire race? And let me tell you, my Brosca did absolutely nothing to make that noise any quieter, taking every opportunity to be just as defiant and scandalous as she could get away with.

I'm not sure how much change this actually ended up enacting, but it sure as hell kept the political discourse going.

[snowdust64]

Ouma Great War Chronicles - Episode 8: It Would Be a Lie to Say I Don’t Feel Bitter

Narrator:  One week has passed since Nagao, Kaida, and Genzuki failed to capture the culprit who was setting up the Treasure Chests of Lunacy. At the Bureau Cafeteria, in the middle of their conversation, Kaida made an offhand comment.

scene:  Bureau Cafeteria

Kaida:  Now that you mention it, it does look like no more incidents of mad transformations have happened since then.

Nagao:  Yeah. But… No way we can call it case closed with this.

Kaida:  That’s the thing. We couldn’t catch the culprit setting up the Treasure Chests of Lunacy, so even now, he’s on the loose, and we haven’t come up with any fundamental solution either.

Genzuki:  The investigation needs to make progress before the incidents start happening again… Hah. I wasn’t expecting a straightforward resolution, but it looks like we’ll be wrapped up in this case for a long time.

Nagao:  Well, as much as it makes our heads hurt, that’s not gonna change. Let’s just each do what we can. Right now anyway, that’ll be eating as much as we can eat. Can’t get anything done on an empty stomach, isn’t that the saying?

Kaida:  You’re just using it self-servingly though. If you eat so much, maybe when you’re battling with demons, you won’t be able to move around properly, you know?

Nagao:  It’s fine. If I eat, just having eaten will let me move. That’s how I’m built!

Genzuki:  Haha… The same amount as Kei-kun would be impossible for me, but I’ll try to eat a lot too. One way or another, what we eat will turn into energy.

Kaida:  Genzuki, you too? … Well, you are right.

Nagao:  Alright. Then, how about the three of us compete to see who can eat the most!

Genzuki+Kaida:  Not gonna.

scene change:  Nagao’s Workroom

 Nagao:  Hah… I went around to check locations where it seemed like more Cases of Demon Madness might happen, but that ended fruitlessly. (Has the culprit completely stopped his activities, or is he being deliberately cautious now that he knows we’re sniffing around on the case? I can’t pick out even a trace of suspicious information. Haru and Toujirou are continuing their own investigations too, but they’re in the same situation as me…) What can we even do? But that said, if we fare badly against demons’ attacks again, it’ll be more troubling. (Moreover… That man who is setting up the Treasure Chests of Lunacy… To think there was someone of that skill within the Ouma Empire. I thought if it was the three of us, we could have lasted a little longer in a fight no matter what kind of adversary we faced. And yet, in reality, we were helpless. It would be a lie to say I don’t feel bitter over something like that!) (We’ll definitely re-challenge. To that end, first, I have to give even more time to training!)

scene change:  Bureau Research Deparment

Kaida:  Uhhhm… To counter the effects that the Treasure Chest of Lunacy has on demons, I need to incorporate something with the opposite effect, but… Plan A and Plan B are both impossible. For Plan C, if the material could be obtained…? Nah. Just the act of finding such a useful material would be praiseworthy in itself… Which means Plan C is also impossible. I need to think of some other alternative, but… nothing is coming to mind anymore. Ah, geez! Throwing my hands up! I admit defeat!

Hinata:  Ahaha… Kaida-senpai, please calm down. I’ve brought some tea! Since you’re been thinking this through this whole time, take a breather.

Kaida:  Ah… thanks, Hinata. Itadakimasu – Ah, so warm…

Hinata:  Heheh, looks like you’ve calmed down a bit, thank goodness. But, I can see the development of that tool you mentioned is running into difficulties. Umm, what name did you call it again?

Kaida:  It’s the Soul-Resting Flute. *

Hinata:  That’s right that’s right! Heheh, it’s a cool name isn’t it. Plus, being able to pacify demons, what an amazing tool!

Kaida:  Mn. If we can accomplish this much, then even if the Cases of Demon Madness start happening again, dealing with them should become easier. But it’s not a simple task to carry this out… Somehow, I’m doubting more and more that I have talent after all. My confidence is disappearing.

Hinata:  No way! Kaida-senpai having no talent, that’s unthinkable! Whatever anyone may say, you’re a genius and also a hard worker, a truly amazing person!

Kaida:  Ah, ahaha… Thank you. (Expectations to this degree do hold some pressure… but I’d like to answer those expectations. For the empire’s sake as well, I must not run away from developing this. However… It’s also a fact that I’ve hit a ceiling with ideas.) Hmm, what to do about this… (What if, with only our current understanding about it, it’s not even possible to create the Soul-Resting Flute…? In that case ─ )

scene change:  Genzuki’s Workroom

Nikaido:  Hah, you’re still doing those sorts of things. How about you start by looking up the meaning of the word ‘efficiency’ in a dictionary?

Genzuki:  … Nikaido-kun…

==========

Translation notes

*  鎮魂 (chinkon) can refer to calming souls of the living or to serenading souls of the dead, as in a requiem. “Soul-Resting” accommodates either meaning and so that’s what I chose.

[impeccablebackside]

Weird thought but do you think the movie and stage Queens would have sex with their counterparts? Like Vic and 2019 Vic having fun? Or thats strange? They're different enough I think

This is an interesting ask anon, so thanks for it. The weird thoughts usually make for good questions in all fairness.

I suppose there are two ways to regard this, the first being if the queens both know that the other is them in spirit and the second would obviously be if they are not aware and someone just so happens to have the same name as them (if names are even shared).

It is a bit of strange premise anon, I am not going to really disagree with that. Though strange does necessarily not mean bad. In general, how would it be considered if you are having sex with someone who is technically yourself? I suppose it would be weird to say that I think it is less 'extreme' than something incestuous, but who knows.

There are a lot of points that come to mind with it when considering the similarities and differences that align with both queens. You are right, I would say that the greater significance of the stage queens differ to a large degree from their movie portrayals. At least enough that it would be hard to say that many are really the same fundamental character when it comes down to it. Not in a negative sense, more from the perspective that the movie changed characters and basically made a non-replica / alternate universe of sorts.

Reagardless, I do admittedly have a bit of a hard time imagining something like this taking place, particularly if they know the other queen is in fact them. Given the interconnectedness of the different realms and spirituality built into parts of the musical, I think either queen would consider their counterpart an extension of themselves, just reborn into another life. In the vast majority of cases, it would end there in my opinion. Even from the perspective that they do not initially realize they are the 'same' queen, sharing a name would be another issue. That is clearly a hard thing to avoid, and it would set off figurative alarm bells in either queen's mind. No matter how many cats could be around, it would be very unusual to meet another cat with a name as unique as Rumple or Tanto for example. It would likely hinder anything further because they would figure out quickly that the other cat is them in some way. Rather than banging one out, I think they would have much more pertinent topics to discuss and share first as to why a second form of them suddenly materialized.

Anyway, for the purpose of this answer we are focusing on the premise that neither queen knows the other is them and that names are not brought up or important. Essentially the other queen is completely separate and remains that way in any sense.

If 2019 Vic and stage Vic were to meet, I do not think they would end up fucking for a long time (if at all) after the initial introduction. They are both shyer and more reserved queens that would probably share a deep friendship rather than any physical intimacy. They could easily be ballet partners / friends that support the other in such a sweet and personal way. Beyond that, neither of them are the other's type. Stage Vic likes the quiet strength / care of her mans and the boundless energy of Rumple, and 2019 Vic does not strongly possess either of those attributes. Alternately, movie Vic needs someone to chase / woo her, and it is not so much stage Vic's style. It would be a spontaneous and likely one-off thing if anything happened.

If they were aware they are the same, I think they would elated to hear about the other's life and the friendship would grow to be more like one of siblings(?).

For Rumple, I think it would be pretty quick before they are fucking in the bushes somewhere. 2019 Rumple is very forward and sultry, yet fun and exciting. Stage Rumple would eat that type of girl up (quite literally) as soon as she could, as that kind of energy from a queen aside from herself is dearly missing in the junkyard. On the other hand, movie Rumple would be smitten with the fun little queen that has the nicest ass she has even seen. Likely initiated by 2019 Rumple, they would get up to some mutually agreed upon shenanigans before getting distracted and ending up in a competition as to who can make the other cum faster.

Out of all the queens, if both were actually aware that the other was indeed them from another world, I do think they would still fuck. It is like the craziest masturbation possible, and they would be into that. Life is about having fun with little regard for rules, so what if that other hot queen is them in a way? May as well indulge a bit. Makes for a good story.

For Tanto, I think it could go either way. The tasteful distilling amd amplification of stage Tanto's more fun and outgoing side into her stage counterpart would make 2019 Tanto strangely alluring to the reserved queen. However, I would not think stage Tanto would catch her other spirit's attention easily to be honest. If they were to talk and get along, it could build, but I would not see a sexual relationship starting out quickly at all. If it did blossom, they would definitely share a intense passion with one another. Though, I think 2019 Tanto is too male leaning for it to be destined. Plus, she would be keener to explore with a more 'softer' queen akin to someone like Vic.

If they were aware that they were intertwined manifestations of the same existence, I do think stage Tanto would still be interested in exploring intimacy from a perspective of testing pleasure and spiritual energies in a completely irreproducible way that would come as her fucking herself but not herself. Movie Tanto would not agree to it though.

Stage Cass would be intrigued by the sassy / bossy nature of 2019 Cass, and that would elicit some desire from her. Movie Cass would be intimidated by her stage counterpart at first, but get on board with making a pass at the other brown queen. Meeting with a glint in their eyes, I think their sex would be a power struggle of them figuratively and literally wrestling the other be the top / domme. (Un)fortunately for 2019 Cass, she is not going to win that fight.

If either found out about 'truth' behind the other, I think they would have a laugh at making the universe more powerful with a second Cass. Rather than come together, I think they would both share tips on how to flex their control over others.

With Bomba, the stage queen would be put off by the negative aura of self-importance and 'big' attitude exhibited by 2019 Bomba. It would be a pretty big turn off for her. The movie version would be flirty with the (actually) red queen, but it would be a one-sided interest.

They would not fuck if they discovered they are both the Bombas of their world. Confusion more than anything would stem from it.

The stage and movie version of Deme are so different that I cannot see them hooking up or really even having much of any communication or relationship if they were in the same physical realm. Their personalities and essence are too dissimilar, and their preferences in partners is not close at all. Add to that, that stage Deme is not really all that female leaning as well. It would not really work.

Finding out they are the same individual would not change that, but stage Deme would be happy to hear that somewhere existed her spirit that lived without so much past traumas.

Stage Jenny would scoff at how aloof her movie version is. I do not think they would get along well, and would develop a fierce rivalry of sorts about who is best at baking, tending the mice, and training the cockroaches. Even burning competition would not open any sort of deeply fostered lust for the other in either of them.

Making them aware they are both Gumbie would make a bit of a merger of their rivalry into a iron-fisted rule over the junkyard. There would not be a piece of trash out of place, but 2019 Jenny does not have the discipline as her stage counterpart so they would still squabble.

With Jelly(s), there is so much of a disconnect character wise that it simply would not even be remotely plausible. The only thing that connects them is their name. Otherwise, they really are two separate characters that would have absolutely nothing in common if they were to meet, whether they are aware the other is them or not.

If you think I missed the mark on any of these anon, I do welcome you letting me know what you had in mind.

[archivalofsins]

Finished the video and honestly the discussions around love throughout it are pretty thought provoking. Especially when it comes to feeling love towards murderers or people who have abused others or oneself. There's a good part in here on how loving someone does not equate to being incapable of holding them accountable or even wanting to still be with them. Which I think is something a lot of the milgram cast and people have difficulty processing.

Especially in Mu's case where she states being friends with someone is accepting and supporting everything they do. Seemingly without question, even if it's harmful to that person. This ultimately is a coping mechanism brought about by her victim not being able to accept/being disgusted by how Mu treated others. The thing that seems to have initially instigated Mu's victim distancing herself from her.

This same focus on being accepted regardless of how detrimental one's behavior is to themselves or those around them is focused on with Mahiru as well. Where she asks within, I love why can't you just accept me. Mu and Mahiru make it seem as though their relationships are built on reciprocity when they're truly transactional in nature. They've created this expectation that acceptance begets acceptance.

So if they can accept everything, then they will be accepted fully in turn without laying out that framing or their need for acceptance to anyone else around them.

They think things like,

"Because I don't set boundaries for myself and how I am loved/engaged with, because I accept that you do things I may not agree with- It's only fair that you should accept me unconditionally as well."

Then try to get Es to agree to this framing in different ways through their voice dramas. By telling them to just vote everyone innocent or in Mahiru's case rebuilding that give and take dynamic. By going of course I won't want to confide in you if you don't confide in me. Relationships are give and take after all you have to tell me about yourself too.

Despite being framed as fair and unconditional equal acceptance. This behavior is still in itself is a conditional and transactional in nature. As it's built on a fundamental desire to not have to reflect on oneself and by proxy, not consider others that much as well. This mindset of everyone should just be able to do what they want/everyone should just accept each other and get along is a defense to avoid and mitigate one's personal fear of being rejected.

Because if you set up a board where everyone wins no one can lose. At the same time, removing that risk makes relationships hollow, unfulfilling, and truly being able to know someone impossible.

"Wanting to know everything about you but wanting to die because it can't come true."

In the same vein, Kazui plays on this concept of not being able to push these boundaries. Being afraid of possible rejection and still acting on the impossibility anyway due to holding out hope on it.

"Only if your heart would change, but that's not possible." - "I realize the futility, but I still can't help but dream."

This sensitivity to being rejected or left out can be found through multiple pf the prisoners songs. It impacts them all in different ways yet they all seem hypervigilant of potential rejectilns. Causing even light criticism or disagreements to be blown out of proportion. Ultimately stunting communication long term,

"My emotions are out of control that's inconvenient? I don't care! Tell me, oh tell me why, won't you just accept me?"

Becayse when someone tells another person what made them uncomfortabke or how their actions made them feel and their first response is to lash out and take offense. It's onky normal for that individual to not feel safe discussing issues in the future.

This is also something no amount of acceptance will fix. Ultimately, the prisoners' problems aren't with these other people denying/rebuking them but with themselves.

"Saying I love you but doing what I did, I know I have no right, crossed and covered in sin." - "Hey what if- If I am a bad girl?"

They view criticism as a deconstruction of everything that they are. A denial of everything they've ever been and overcompensate to avoid it. Because they internally criticized themselves and others all the time. Due to this they view love as an unwavering acceptance and anything less than that as a betrayal.

In cases like that, even saying things like it makes me uncomfortable when you do x can be viewed as wrong. Something we've seen be an issue with the prisoners in their voice dramas before. A person in that sort of situation won't even be able to communicate how to make the situation better for themselves or the person behaving this way. Because anything they say can be considered stoking the flames. As we saw in Futa's case with Bring It On and the hat girl. At that point, not engaging is the best course of action.

In the same vein, the person behaving this way will never fully feel accepted because they know better than anyone the harm their actions have caused. Something they'll continue to judge themselves for a feel judged for regardless of how much outward validation they get.

Fun and well timed new video just dropped-

it's okay to love bad people. OliSUNvia

I feel like this video can be applied to Yuno, Mikoto, Amane, and Kazui pretty well and I just started watching it.

[vaspider]

Yo, quick question that might actually not be so quick upon further consideration.

So jews are both an ethnic and a religious group, right? Does that apply to converts? Are converts ethnically jewish? I would assume yes from what I know about judaism. It would seem like that's not even a question, but it also seems like a concept that many people would be radically opposed to because it kind of fundamentally attacks the way general society views ethnicity, so it feels like something that would be brought up more frequently?

So...

The only answer I really have to this is to say that it's against halacha to distinguish in any way between a convert/adoptee and someone who grew up within the Jewish community. That fact doesn't play nicely with modern American ideas of "ethnicity", so it's not really possible to answer that question in a way that is simple and satisfactory.

Like, did I stop being white when I dunked in the mikveh? Of course not. That's ridiculous. Am I "ethnically Jewish"? I ... am... exactly as ethnically Jewish as any other Jew, because I'm Jewish, and therefore whatever ethnicity I have is a Jewish ethnicity. (And, again, it's against halacha to try to make distinctions. We're all exactly as Jewish as the next Jew.)

Jews are Ethiopian, Japanese, Desi, Mexican, English... we come from everywhere, and everything we bring to Am Ysrael is Jewish.

I think possibly the best comparison I can make here is probably a trans one. A lot (but not all) of trans people were always their actual gender, and always knew it, they were just mistaken for another gender beforehand. Coming out for me felt a lot like the process of conversion, both in that I had to learn a lot to make the changes I wanted to make for myself, I joined a community, but also I was journeying towards a version of myself who had always existed and just needed to be born the rest of the way.

To distinguish between a trans man and a cis man in a similar way is something we know to be shitty... the questions are very similar, you know? "But are you a biological man/ethnic Jew?"

Well, a trans man is a man, and the biology he has is therefore a man's biology, and therefore, he's a biological man. I'm a Jew, therefore the ethnicity I have is a Jewish one, and therefore I'm no more or less ethnically Jewish than any other Jew.

Usually what people mean when they ask about someone being ethnically Jewish is "are you Ashkenazi genetically, or maybe Sephardic as a backup." And that just... does not understand at all what Jewishness is, or how wildly diverse a group we are, or how becoming Jewish/affirming your extant Jewishness works, or that converts have Jewish souls and stood gathered with all other Jewish souls at Sinai when Torah/the Ten Commandments were given.

Honestly, at the point where you're saying "yeah my soul takes a jaunt to Mt. Sinai when I sleep to hang out with the other Jewish souls and it was there when Moses brought the tablets down," questions of modern American ethnicity seem a little silly, you know?

So... like. I'm white. I didn't stop being white. I'm also Jewish. Those things aren't half and half or part time one and part time the other or religiously one and ethnically the other. I'm 100% both things. I'm 100% white and 100% Jewish at the same time.

And it turns out my great-grandmother was born in a town that at the time was 90% Jewish, and I'm not sure what happened there but I have my theories. That's just sort of a historical curiosity, though.

Anyway, I hope that makes sense. I had a minor procedure done on my knee (I'm fine) and I'm doped up for recovery.

[jdrizzle15]

Her Second Return

Just like all of you, and especially my fellow Penny fans, I am absolutely devastated by the Volume 8 finale. I had been in quite a state these last few days, utterly heartbroken, and actually nauseous at times. It feels strange to me to be legitimately grieving a fictional character, but it’s not a bad thing to feel this way. To me, this just shows that CRWBY loves her just as much as us to have written her so well that we connect so completely with her, that it feels like we lost an actual piece of ourselves when she’s gone.

But as you can probably tell by the title, this mega post isn’t gonna be about accepting this end, not in the slightest! Today I want to share canon evidence that can point towards another return of our beloved quirky red headed cinnamon bun! I’m here to spread this hope that I and others in the Nuts & Dolts dolts Discord server have!

I have this separated into many different sections to keep these thoughts organized. With that said, here goes…

A Father’s Words:

In Episode 7 of Volume 7, ‘Worst Case Scenario’ we learn the origins of Penny’s aura, and thus her soul. We also learn that it takes more aura each time she’s brought back. This leaves open an option that could be used at a later point.

Many people theorized that Pietro could indeed revive Penny one more time, which he would absolutely do. But there also lies the possibility that someone else could donate some of theirs, I’m not sure about this as I feel like it’s akin to blood donation where compatibility matters or there's a high risk of altering her, but the possibility is definitely there.

Now, the conversation in Chapter 5 of Volume 8, ‘Amity’ that Pietro and Penny have is an important moment for both Father and Daughter. It was there to show how her death in PvP all that time ago really did have a heavy impact on him and is still affecting him to this day.

Instead of continuing to pretend that everything is A-okay, like he had done for most of Volume 7, he finally lets his true feelings about how it come out to Penny for what is quite likely the first time. Even going so far as to say "Are you asking me to go through that again?" when she offers to take the risk of trying to lift Amity with her power. He wants Penny to be able to live her life.

This entire scene with Pietro established “this is what will likely happen” even if circumstances are much different now, it doesn’t negate the fact that this is a key part of Penny’s story. Scenes like these have a purpose beyond simply making an eventual death all the more heart wrenching. Her never actually getting to live her life makes those scenes basically moot. It makes them effectively pointless from narrative point of view. Unless there's more to it.

Building Relationship:

The build up between Ruby and Penny the last two volumes has been absolutely phenomenal with a definite destination in mind, and this doesn’t feel like that destination. So much of the arc of this season was to help Penny. This girl that our main protagonist absolutely adores and treasures, it would just be awful to throw all of that out for what amounts to an avoidable end. Why use so much of their precious and very limited runtime on deliberately building up this relationship only to end it abruptly, and permanently, when they’re separated?

In my opinion, RT is definitely smarter now than to intentionally set up what was really looking like a budding gay relationship only to kill one of them for good. If N&D wasn't actually going in a romantic direction, why would they leave in all of the romance-adjacent stuff that they got, that's not how ‘just friends’ act. And that is not something you use such valuable time building up for absolutely no pay off whatsoever...

Representation of Hope:

At its core, RWBY has always been about hope. It’s not at the forefront the whole time, but there's been an underlying theme of hopefulness that has persisted since it began. Some describe the show as a Hopepunk, I personally find this to describe RWBY really well. This genre of storytelling is about caring for things deeply and the courage and strength it takes to do so. It’s about never submitting or accepting the way things are. Fighting for what you believe in and standing up for others. RWBY fits all of this extremely well. How does this relate to Penny? She has been shown to be a sign of hope for everyone, but especially for Ruby, the main main protagonist. A prerequisite for a Hopepunk story is the hope.

Her first death in V3 was something that fundamentally changed Ruby. For the first time in the series, we see our main character all but broken by this event. With the loss of Penny, immediately afterwards, Ruby’s hope followed. She made up for it through determination and force of will. We see it affect her multiple times throughout the journey to Volume 7. But upon her return in V7, Hope reached a high point for everyone, the sheer relief on Ruby’s face is plain to see!

In V8 chapter 5 ‘Amity’, Penny literally raises hope by lifting the arena into the sky so Ruby could spread her message. And when she falls, and Amity with her, the connection is lost and hope plummets again. From there things take a very negative turn with the hack begins to take Penny’s agency.

In chapter 11 ’Risk’ is the point in the arc where everyone is reunited for the moment, so two separate hero stories are no longer a thing at that point in time. For the time being focus seemed to be shifted to care about the characters and how they’re going to solve the current problems. This is also where Ruby reaches her lowest emotional point in the season.

It’s not huge, but it’s interesting how connected this is. Before Ruby and Yang share a good cry over learning the possible fate of Summer, Yang brings up restoring optimism and hope to Ruby after the younger sister storms out of the room in frustration. This is where Penny’s scenes take up the rest of the episode. Getting Penny back in control of her own body and safe again is what makes the ending of the episode much brighter, when just 5 minutes before Ruby had been distraught and scared. This then spills over into the group coming up with the plan to use the staff, putting the main group in a much better mood. Of all the things to go right, it’s interesting that it’s Penny.

Things go wrong with the plan in the end and Penny dies. I find it interesting that once again, Penny got them hopeful in their chances of doing something right. Given said plan succeeded but at the cost of Penny of all people, Penny is shown to be the beginning and end of hope for them

The highest and lowest points for hope seem to directly correlate to when Penny’s around. When she comes back again, hope will return too, just like it had before. And because she’ll likely be back for good this time, the second return will probably be close to when Ruby is nearing the complete abandonment of hope. This would be pretty par for the course of the show honestly.

A little aside, but in a sense, Penny also represents Unity. The CCT in Vale fell after her first death, knocking out global communications and the unifying connection it gave. When it was restored for the briefest moment, she was there. Her body connected so she could allow for its launch, her soul lighting the night to hold up Amity with every ounce of her strength. So of course when the Hack succeeds and she falls, she takes global comms down again with her. At a smaller scale - even at the Hack's second last attempt to control her, she draws everyone in the Schnee Manor together. At the start of the volume, Yang states the one thing that they all agree on is not surrendering Penny.

Unity seems appropriate for one whose first song and wish was for but one friend, who would go on to find so many more in the process, and permit for a moment the possibility of all Remnant becoming friends once more. Where she first died, the name of the episode devoted to her story - Amity, "friendship", from the Latin root amicus, "friend" - she almost lives and dies with the very possibility of a united Remnant. It's no wonder she's a priority target for Salem, the great divider, and it seems natural that her next restoration may very well allow the next bid to bring the world together.

The Void Screams:

Moments after Penny's death, we hear a weird scream in the void space. It was a guttural, pained, angry scream, almost like the void space itself was crying out. All the portals shuddered and flickered when it happened.

Some think that this scream was Salem returning, but that happens earlier than Penny’s death, her return is signaled with cinder's arm acting up. We know this because after the arm finished flailing uncontrollably, Cinder said triumphantly "she's back." If it were Salem screaming, it would have happened after she fixed herself, but it didn't.

And I doubt Cinder would have been surprised or unsettled by it considering she was happy Salem returned not long before it. And why would a Salem scream affect the portals anyway, she has no connection to the staff or it's magic.

Another thing to consider is the fact sound is not transmitted through the portals. Otherwise, they would've heard Oscar and the rest calling for them, or the screams of the citizens of Mantle and Atlas. This lowers the possibility of that scream being from Salem even further.

The sound really seems to be coming from something else entirely within the void, and that something is not at all happy. There’s also the fact that Penny was the only person who died in the void space, everyone else was just thrown out of it like Ruby and Co. The only logical cause to me is Penny. Her body was a product (or byproduct) of the same creation magic that made the void space, her blood seems to have been a trigger.

Now I can't be sure about it, but this makes me feel like Penny is almost a part of creation itself? For whatever this thing is to be so angry, that is the only explanation I can think of currently. But all of this could possibly relate to the Narnia allusion of 'the willing victim killed in a traitor's stead' that others have brought up, which will be covered next.

Narnia Parallels:

Atlas has several parallels and references to fictional places (putting aside real world ones like the United States). One of those is that of Narnia, both on the surface and on a deeper level. It is a land of winter year round, where people struggle to survive and there is a present divide between those loyal to the current Monarch and those who are not. James is a parallel to Jadis, the White Witch, a ruler whose thoughts and cares aren’t exactly centered around the actual well being of the people. The hologram table in Ironwood’s office is designed to look like stone, like the Stone Table which features prominently in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. He has a handpicked cadre of special agents/secret police, like how Maugrim and his wolves served Jadis. Another key parallel is how Jadis’s winter sets in to oppress and kill everyone in Narnia, but the Witch provides aid and protection to her loyal followers. She has all the power to spare harm to others, and uses it only for the loyal. As soon as Mantle splits from James and Atlas, no care is taken to protect them from the cold of Solitas even though he has every ability to turn the heating grid back on. His protection is only for the loyal.

Now that the parallel is established, let's look into the details. Starting with how James plays the role of Jadis.

"I had forgotten that you are only a common boy. How should you understand reasons of State? You must learn, child, that what would be wrong for you or for any of the common people is not wrong in a great Queen such as I. The weight of the world is on our shoulders. We must be freed from all rules. Ours is a high and lonely destiny." These are the words Jadis says in the Magician’s Nephew to justify the blood civil war she and her sister had waged for rulership of Charn, before she came to Narnia. She won that war, technically, but only after the last battle had been lost and her sister had marched right up to her so that they were face to face. Jadis’s troops were dead, her followers had surrendered, and the capital was under full control of her sister. But, she still had one card, one ultimate play to win and prove the throne of Charn was rightfully her. The Deplorable Word, a piece of old magic that killed everyone and everything except for her on Charn. It was monstrous, senseless, cruel beyond measure. But it got her that hollow victory. This mindset, the disregard for the people except as tools for her own will, the ultimate ‘aoe’ destructive move that no one had even considered her using, the unwillingness to stop even when by all practical measures the war is over, is a shocking parallel to James. In many ways, he is Jadis in mindset and deed.

Then there is the shared desire for A Thing that both James and Jadis have. For James it’s the Winter Maiden and control over her. For Jadis it’s the Silver Apples from the Tree of Youth. And funnily enough, the Maiden Powers parallel the Apples quiet well. These apples grant power and a life of eternal beauty, but should not be taken or eaten on one’s own initiative. They must be given, a gift granted by another, or only suffering will come from obtaining them. "For the fruit always works — it must work — but it does not work happily for any who pluck it at their own will. If any Narnian, unbidden, had stolen an apple and planted it here to protect Narnia, it would have protected Narnia. But it would have done so by making Narnia into another strong and cruel empire like Charn, not the kindly land I mean it to be.” Jadis’s immortality, and some of her power, come from the fact that she ate an Apple of her own will after stealing her way into the garden where the Tree of Youth had been planted. She gained the eternal life she had wanted and the power along with it, but she did so by taking it and was cursed because of it. Her skin turned pale and her lips blackened as if she were a frozen corpse given life. She will be trapped in a life of misery and hate according to Aslan- oh hey Cinder, how’s having stolen the Power you always wanted working out for you? Cinder had the power she wanted, but she only got hungrier, eager to claim more and increase her might. But in her pursuit she was defeated and humiliated by Raven, had to steal her way out of Mistral, and then suffered defeat after defeat while in Atlas. Only in the end, when she didn’t keep pursuing the Maiden Power, did she get any kind of victory.

The reason these parallels to Narnia are so important is one of the most famous events of the series. The cracking of the Stone Table and the rebirth of Aslan after his death. ‘When a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backward.’ Well, the ‘Stone Table’ in James’s office has cracked, and Penny strikes me as a pretty willing victim. She has never actually committed any actual treachery or harm, as she was the Protector of Mantle, and fought for its and Atlas’s people until the very end. And because of her death, the actual traitor, Winter, who loyally served James until he had gone too far, was saved. Through Penny’s self sacrifice, Winter was saved. So now Death itself will start working backward.

(Major props to my friend @catontheweb for writing this section, I was getting nowhere with it, if they weren't there this part wouldn't exist!)

Norse Mythology:

The tree we see in the post credit scene gives off some serious Yggdrasil vibes. Also called the World Tree, it is essentially all of creation in Norse Mythology. It connects all nine realms, including the God realms of Asgard, the human realm of Midgard, and the underworld of Hel.

Humans are born from the branches of Yggdrasil. The web of Wyrd is woven for every person once they're born, and their path is set from there regardless of how many times the souls cycle over. But at the end, they're destined to end up in one of the worlds, for a myriad of reasons.

I believe Penny landed closest to this giant tree. She was on the center platform in the void space, so if that space is directly above the island(?) the tree is on, it makes sense for her to fall by the center nearest to the tree. This would not only open up all kinds of possibilities for the volume in general, but it would also create options for Penny.

The whole of Yggdrasil’s representations fit well into Penny’s story. Birth, growth, death and rebirth. We can count Penny’s appearance in V7 as birth for now, her growth is all her development in leaving =the military and becoming a Maiden, her death just happened, and her rebirth would be her revival. And this is a cycle she’s gone through before.

The Norse god Odin and Yggdrasil have quite a connection. In one story, Odin cut out one of his own eyes to gain knowledge from a pool underneath Yggdrasil. The only one that fell whose eyes alone are incredibly significant to the story was Ruby. So, they could choose to have her allude to Odin by having Ruby make some kind of deal with whatever entity likely rules over this magical place. An eye for Penny’s life.

There’s another story about Odin, Yggdrasil and the pursuit of knowledge. Odin so loved knowledge, that he sacrificed himself in a quest to learn the deeper magic of runes. It was believed one could only learn the magic spells from runes in death. So, Odin hung himself on Yggdrasil for nine days as an offering, and teetered between life and death. After he mastered the last spell on the ninth night, he ritually died and all light was extinguished from the world. Odin’s death lasted until midnight, when he was reborn and light returned to the world.

This story doesn’t fit Penny perfectly, but allusions often don’t. So If she really did land near the tree, she could be another loose representation of Odin’s story here. What she did wasn’t for knowledge, but to save her friends and keep Cinder from getting the Winter Maiden power. She believed it necessary that she sacrifice herself to achieve this end. As we established, Penny represents Hope, so her death means the loss of hope. This parallels Odin’s story of his death meaning the loss of light itself. So if this theory holds up, it would make this death temporary, until her rebirth and the return of Hope with her once again.

Alternatively, Ruby has the potential of loosely representing Odin in this story as well. Odin later uses the knowledge of the runes to do many things, but the most relevant one right now is awakening the dead. Both of these stories are about making a personal sacrifice to gain something that is desired. Ruby would absolutely make such sacrifices if it meant saving Penny.

It is said that Odin lived “according to his highest will unconditionally, accepting whatever hardships arise from that pursuit, and allowing nothing, not even death, to stand between him and the attainment of his goals." This sounds like Penny's arc of accepting the WM powers. This is more just a general connection between Penny and Odin, but I found it interesting.

Side Note: I encourage anyone who’s interested to look into RWBY connections to Norse Myth, there’s a surprising amount of things that feel eerily similar to the show. Likely just coincidental, but it’s fun to think about!

(If I got any of this wrong, I sincerely apologize by the way. I researched as best I could, but I admit it could have been lacking.)

Ambrosius and the Staff:

Ruby told Ambrosius "we kinda wanna keep her around longer than that" as part of her very specific instructions. Then Penny died about ten to fifteen minutes, at the absolute most thirty minutes later in-universe. I don’t know about you, but to me that seems very short to be considered ‘longer than that’. Technically it is, but when writing a story and a character says something like that, you typically don’t just kill the character they were referring to basically right away. It makes sense for a week-by-week watch, but in a volume binge, which many viewers do, it becomes ironic how fast Penny dies after being removed from her robotic body.

The first time we see the staff of creation being used, it's to save Penny. Using the staff of creation to help Penny is a sign of how incredibly important she is.

They’ve even got this entire transformation sequence for her, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to throw all that away two episodes later. In a meta context, it’s a massive waste of time and budget considering the asset creation for Penny.

Penny is a character who has already hopped bodies two times. And now we're supposed to just believe that this time it really is a final death? Just two episodes after we were explicitly told her body isn't what matters, that "Her soul is who she is" and that "the mechanical parts are just extra"? From a writing perspective, it feels strange, like your breaking a promise right after making it. And frankly, CRWBY is better than that, which makes me think this is not the actual end for her.

A possible connection between Penny, Ruby, and the Staff (thus Creation) can be seen in the intro. As Ruby is falling and being dragged down into the darkness, she is shown reaching for the staff. In the void space, Penny is the one with the relic. So with Penny having this strong connection to Creation, and the lyrics “fight for every life” playing as Ruby reaches for the staff, it’s a safe assumption to make, with the knowledge we now have, that the Staff of Creation represents Penny in this particular moment. Which could mean that V9 will be about, at least partially, fighting for Penny’s life.

Musical Hints:

In terms of music, Friend, as a song for Penny, is very dissonant from the episode itself. The song is oddly cheerful for Penny’s recent untimely death, and it overall highlights the wrong parts of death. It’s simply too happy to be a song about losing one of the most, if not the most joyous characters in the entire show. The song also abruptly ends. There’s no outro, and while this could symbolize the fact that Penny died young, it could be that the song itself is unfinished in a story sense.

What do we hear just before the song finishes, though? A progression of notes that sounds eerily similar to the last line of the opening of Volume 8. The notes for “Fight for ev’ry life” and “Who fin’lly felt alive'' share a similar melodic structure, they aren’t perfect clones of each other, but they are incredibly similar, to the point where it seems intentional. Penny may very well be the life that the opening song is fighting for. It is also worth noting that the line “Fight for every life” comes just after “Sometimes it’s worth it all to risk the fall,” which is the exact wording used for the description in the Volume 8 finale. Team RWBY risked the fall, yet, strangely the opposite of fighting for every life happened with Penny’s sacrifice. Perhaps the time to fight for every life has yet to happen, and we will see it come Volume 9.

For another thing, the lyrics for Friend are entirely centered on Penny’s feelings for Ruby, to the point where they read very much like a bittersweet love song. The music itself is incredibly cheerful, as mentioned previously, creating a mood whiplash with the end of the volume. Why would we hear a song about Penny’s feelings for Ruby, sounding like a love song, if her death is supposed to be a tragic sacrifice akin to Pyrrha’s? The song may very well be giving a clue into its future use in the show proper.

If this was meant to be a good bye song, why make it so cheerful and romantic sounding? There's only one part about her dying and even then, it's just too accepting and goes right back into cheerfulness. The song is also pretty hopeful, telling Penny's story in a fairly chronological order. And the part where she talks about sacrifice is quite pointedly followed up by one about feeling alive. It also ends with the super cheerful chorus, the word "alive" being the last... (Remember the episode title: The Final Word)

(I want to thank my friend @shadow-0f-x for writing the majority of this section! I was struggling to choose how to tackle it as I am not well versed in music theory.)

What We Didn’t See:

It is likely that Penny understood Jaune's semblance better than him and figured something out about it’s abilities in the same way that she understood Ruby's semblance better than her. She had plenty of time to observe his semblance up close as he boosted her aura to stave off the virus. Because of that intentionally timed cutaway in the finale, we don’t get to hear her explain herself after her strained “Trust me.” All of that seems really suspicious to me.

Pyrrha Parallel:

Pyrrha and Penny both sacrificed themselves to stop or stall Cinder. Jaune tried to convince the both of them to stop. With Pyrrha, he failed, while with Penny he actively helped her sacrifice herself. Doesn’t make sense for the guy who was determined not to let anyone else do what Pyrrha did, unless of course Penny assured him she’d be alright.

The Moment:

RT including the suicide hotline in the description shows that they're aware that Penny basically committed assisted suicide, seeing it as a noble sacrifice worth doing to save her friends. They're aware, and I believe they're smart enough to condemn that decision to hell and back.

The best way to do that in my opinion is to pull her back into the land of the living and let her witness first hand the consequences of throwing her life away so freely. This would show Penny how her actions affected others so maybe she could learn to truly value herself. To not think herself expendable. It would be bold and unwise to portray this choice as something good, unless it was going to be called upon later and be pointed out for how horrible it really is.

On top of this, Penny was way too content with her death, happy even. There's no way team RWBY is letting her stay content with it. It’s almost as though we're supposed to join Ruby and Co. in calling bullshit on what Penny is saying and doing because no, Penny, this is not how things are meant to work. It's as if Penny was basically saying "I want to die for my friends" because most of the volume had been about everyone else making sure she didn't die. She knows it will hurt them. She knows.

At the peak of it all, a choice like this will totally destroy Ruby. It may very well be her breaking point for Volume 9. Curiously, the moment itself is written like it’s the first choice Penny’s ever made, yet the entire Volume shows this isn’t the case. However, this is the first choice that Penny’s made solely independently and it’s rather pertinent that the choice she makes is a mistake. Outside of giving Winter the Maiden gift and saving the day temporarily, this sacrifice will not have any lasting positive effects. Jaune will be saddled with the grief of killing Penny. Ruby will have to live with losing her best friend and not being able to protect her a second time, and Winter now has the burden of the Winter Maiden abilities, making her a target of Cinder. This is a bad thing, and Penny needs to see the long term consequences.

Transfer of Power:

As we all know, colors in RWBY are really important and get a lot of focus in the show. That means the yellow we see as Penny gives Winter the Maiden Powers was intentional and likely important, no matter how insignificant it may seem. It’s possible that the transfer effect being yellow could have something to do with Jaune’s semblance. When Fria gave the power to Penny, the effect was very much blue, so this transfer should have been green since she was the one giving it this time. The weirdness of this transfer and the focus on color in RWBY really makes it look like something’s up with how that went down.

A little off topic, but Penny saying "I won't be gone, I'll be part of you." makes me think... Winter is smart, so when she gets time to think about what Penny said, maybe she'll arrive at the same question many in the audience came to; if she's literally part of Winter, can they be separated again? If Winter starts questioning that, the possibility of Penny coming back just skyrockets.

Fria actually tells Penny "I'll be gone" before giving her powers up, which is an interesting contrast to Penny telling Winter "I won't be gone". She may have gotten that line from Winter be all philosophical in V7, saying Fria was now a part of Penny, but it hits differently coming from an actual Maiden. S5o it’s possible that Maidens usually actually will be gone, but Jaune's semblance did something to change that.

This could go well with the theory that they won't need to find an aura transfer machine, or build another one, because Jaune will have a semblance evolution allowing him to do the transfer instead. It might actually be that this evolution already happened and the golden light we saw was Jaune transferring penny's aura to Winter in some way?

An observation that I find interesting is when Penny gives winter the powers, not only is the aura yellow but penny completely glows yellow too, and she obviously starts to disappear, but she doesn’t seem to fully disappear, she just glows.

It's possibly a fading out effect and she does fully fade but animation makes bright light easier, and so we don't actually see her disappear because she's dead and not gone. But it does once again emphasize the color yellow here!

And the color is coming from Penny, it does go up Winter's arm a bit, but Penny is clearly the source. This transfer is so weird and I’m not really sure how to interpret it. There's just actually no reason that we are aware of to make the effect yellow here is the thing. Unless it has something to do with either Jaune or Ambrosius, or potentially a combination of both...

Jaune’s Aura:

The way we see Jaune's aura break in the finale is strange. His aura shouldn't be breaking here. It had been long enough since he was boosting Penny, he's had time to recharge, and it didn't look like it was a strain on him at all. Plus, we know he has a lot of aura, so there probably wasn't too much to recharge in the first place.

He has a massive amount of aura, it has never broken before as far as I remember. Even if it has though, that doesn’t make this occurrence any less odd. It should absolutely never be a one-hit KO. We didn't see anything that would've drained it, that should not have been enough to break his aura. Unless he did something - something that would require a huge amount of aura - that we just didn't see. That amount of aura drain is far more than just an attempt at healing would do, Jaune absolutely did something with his semblance that took up almost all of his aura.

Pinocchio Allusion:

As any Penny fan knows, her character allusion is Pinocchio, the puppet who became a real boy. Penny deviates from the allusion by having always been a real girl, as Ruby is quick to point out, but she shares many story beats with her original story including multiple deaths. In the original story, Pinocchio dies from being hung by his own strings due to his poor decision making and he dies. Sounds a little familiar, does it not? This is where his tale originally ended. Readers were unsatisfied with this ending however, so the author decided to change the story by reviving Pinocchio and teaching him to be more careful.

Unlike Pinocchio making all the wrong decisions, Penny often makes the right ones, or ones she thinks is right, when concerning others. While usually a good thing, this has meant Penny almost giving herself up multiple times during V8, her last attempt being successful. This is where Penny and Pinocchio begin to share similarities again. They are both very reckless when it concerns themselves. This carelessness comes from different places, but it ends with the same result of them endangering their lives and even sometimes losing them.

In the Disney movie, Pinocchio dies by drowning after going to rescue Geppetto and washes up on the shore (like the beach in V8’s post credit scene). His father is devastated and takes him home to grieve, but as a reward for his selflessness in rescuing his father, the Blue Fairy returns and brings him back to life, as well as granting him humanity. Penny sacrificed her life as well, and it stands to reason that she should be rewarded for it, much like her allusion was.

Penny got her maiden powers from someone with blue aura and then gave her powers to someone with blue aura. So it could be that not only Ambrosius, but Fria and Winter as well represent the Blue Fairy. It could be set up for Winter helping to bring Penny back to life once more. It’s an out there theory I admit, but it’s not outright impossible either. The Blue Fairy in Pinocchio saved him three times that I know of, so RWBY having three representations does make sense.

Geppetto wished for him to live as a real boy, but it depended on what path Pinocchio took. This is very reminiscent of Penny and Pietro. Pietro wants to see her live her life, and surely with him absent in V8C14 that didn't work, despite Penny choosing. Her father did not see her happy enough to live her life, and will only be able to learn her death through others. But Pinocchio's themes were life and being alive. So the likelihood that this is not her end yet is quite high!

A Girl That Fell Through the World:

Penny could be the girl who fell through the world. The girl in the story fled the consequences of a choice. The only person who chose her ultimate fate was Penny. The others were pushed into the void, but she chose to die. The consequence of her choice is Ruby’s grief first and foremost, which Penny won’t see. The girl who fell through the world does come back though, and the world will be changed severely with Penny’s absence. Alternatively, it could also be Penny coming back to Wonderland or wherever they currently are, as long as it’s unrecognizable to her.

What Returning Brings:

Others might say another return would have no story relevant purpose, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Penny gives a profoundly youthful, joyous, and wondrous outlook on the world and story that we hadn't seen since Ruby in Volumes 1-3(not the end), Penny returning would bring a much needed levity back in after the despair they will undoubtedly be going through. While not necessarily a huge thing in most other shows, for RWBY, a show largely about keeping up hope, an ounce of such relief is a necessity.

As much as I hate saying it, Penny’s death does actually make some narrative sense because she had to pass on the Maiden powers. (They could have done this in a number of ways, and I personally think they chose rather poorly, but I digress.) Throughout this whole volume, we can see Penny seemingly being set up to join the main cast, but would have been too strong with the powers. This also accomplishes ridding her of the burden of responsibility that comes with being a Maiden and lets her obtain the freedom that’s so important to her character.

Once she returns, seeing this grief that her actions caused, particularly to Ruby, will get her to realize more that her actions can have serious repercussions. She made a choice, but that choice hurt the people she loves. She must have known that it would but I’m not sure she ever realized just how much.

I didn’t want this post to be heavy in the shipping department, so I largely left it out, but I am going to say this one thing that could have an impact. If Nuts & Dolts is on its way to being canon, which this volume makes it feel highly likely, this could be a catalyst.

It could prompt an arc for the both of them in which Penny learns to live her life fighting for her loved ones, rather than sacrificing it for them. A relationship could potentially start from there. And Ruby seeing Penny learn these things may also help her to stop doing the occasional but very dangerous and reckless things she does. Ruby witnessing Penny coming to terms with what she did to the people that care about her would actually make her stop to think “wait, is this how everyone else would feel if I got myself killed?” That would be a very important moment of character growth for her.

I’m certain there are other significant things that Penny returning can bring to the show. And there are definitely more sections I could add to this. At this point though, assuming anyone even made it this far, I think I’ve been going long enough already. So let’s just roll into the outro!

As painful and hopeless as it seems, I'm choosing to trust them with this because there is absolutely no way they didn't see backlash coming. The way this finale went makes me think that they calculated for backlash and aren’t jumping into something they don’t have a plan to recover from. Whether this trust is unfounded or not remains to be seen, but I don’t think it is currently. I do think, however, that the cause of this backlash was a major misstep. Now that it has happened though, they have a chance to do something good with it.

I know for a lot of you, trust in CRWBY has been damaged, some even irreparably so. And for those that feel this way, I don’t blame you. My trust in them took a hit too, but isn’t broken completely yet. There are many ways that they can bring her back that would make sense with the narrative, they have the ability to make it right, and after going over all of the hints and general weirdness of things many times, I think they will.

I'm feeling pretty confident now and I really didn't expect that to happen at all to be honest. But discussing and theorizing with the discord server seriously helped get my hopes back up surprisingly fast! It’s actually thanks to all of them that this gigantic post even happened! So thanks a ton my fellow Dolts! And a special thanks to!!

@arcana-amicus

@catontheweb

@cosmokyrin

@gaydontmesswithme224

@jammatown919

@shadow-0f-x

They really helped get this thing across the finish line!

And thank YOU for reading all~ of this! I sincerely wish it gave you some of the hope and confidence that I now have!

[langdonmels]

I personally find it odd that so many people dislike show Collin versus book Collin bc I find myself finding show Penelope a lot more unlikeable than book Pen.

Retreading the books, LW is so much more coy and sassy. I find LW in the show to be downright cruel and catty. I still haven’t forgiven Penelope for the Marina drama tbh. I just can’t imagine being willing to publicly ruin somebody’s life like that. She was willing to tell Collin directly about Marina being in love with somebody else so why not the baby? He would have kept that secret but I think Penelope was too afraid he’d marry her anyways and that’s just so unforgivably selfish to me.

Like damn I know we’re in the ladies villain era but to me the Marina and Eloise things just really change her character on a fundamental level that makes her less interesting to me. I’m all for ladies making mistakes and having dark sides but I think the problem is that the show hasn’t shown me enough of her good sides to make her feel two dimensional to me. Banking on my sympathies for characters who are “wallflowers” can only last so long and I need them to start showing her with some positive qualities bc right now it’s not it.

In contrast I think they did this with Kate beautifully. Really showed her love and devotion to her sister and how that kind of spiraled into the mess it did. How the combination of pride, devotion, loyalty and stubbornness (as well as Anthony’s flaws of course) really kind of made this mess. It really helped me root for them and feel the pain for all involved.

i mean... most people dislike show!pen too, lol. i know personally i've ranted to my friends about while i am enjoying what they're doing romantically with show!polin, individually those characters aren't the same ones i loved in the books. for better, but for most people, for worse.

i'm not gonna rehash all the pen stuff - i've talked at length about how much i needed pen to reach rock bottom and how she's done so much shit and deserves to be called out for it, etc. etc.

but i think you brought up a great point that people tend to forget - well fucking duh we like kate (and anthony) way more than penelope. THEY'VE HAD THEIR SEASON. we've gotten real time with them, seen them in various different ways - good, bad, ugly, everything in between. people HATED anthony in s1... but with some actual backstory and someone to play off of, anthony is now beloved. don't forget how much of a sexist ass he was in s1 and in the s2 premiere! but despite that, we still love him bc we UNDERSTAND him.

to me, the show hasn't made us truly understand penelope yet. in some ways, sure, like HOW pulls off the LW stuff, or why she wrote that article about marina or eloise. but WHY is she LW? obviously we can infer things... but they haven't actually explicitly focused on it... bc that's not the focus right now.

in my mind, they don't really want you to root for her unquestioningly. she HAS made some terrible, terrible decisions and absolutely deserves to suffer consequences for that. (and yes, in comparison, colin has done shit lmao which is why it's interesting why so many people hate him instead of just finding him boring or bland, which to me makes more sense). penelope isn't 2-d... she's just unfinished. she's messy and unlikable (just like every female character on the show imo... they're purposefully making every female character have flaws and not just "quirky" ones, but actual flaws that are ugly and gross and make you mad at the characters and sometimes even the writing.) daphne and kate have had the time and the focus to become fully-fleshed out and that's why we love them (well... daphne is still a [redacted] but that's a different issue.)

anyway i see it as you're not suppose to be rooting for pen yet. or at least, not this version of pen. you're suppose to see her digging herself into this hole and see all the worst parts of her (and i get that can be annoying given the whole screentime thing but that's a different topic). i personally am still rooting for her redemption, and yeah maybe it's bc i know her potential as a book character. but i also think if we get 189237494 different versions of white hot male characters getting their half-ass redemption arcs, then why shouldn't we afford penelope the same opportunity?

[supercorpkid]

Under Pressure.

Supercorp, Kara Danvers x Daughter!Reader, Lena Luthor x Daughter!Reader.

Word count: 2340.

“You have to pay more attention!” Kara says landing in the backyard. You make an annoyed sound, landing right next to her.

“I was paying attention.” You throw your hands up. You’ve been hearing this for five minutes now and you’re done.

“And still you nearly dropped it.” She follows you inside the house, and you make your way to the kitchen trying to lose her. “Are you listening?”

“Yes, momma. I’m listening. I have super hearing, so-”

“Ok, don’t be funny. You wanted to join more Supergirl missions and I went against my own principle of waiting until you’re 18, and then you almost dropped the most fundamental thing for our mission.”

“But I didn’t.”

“That’s not the point.”

“What is the point, then?” You huff, upset.

“I can’t bring you to missions if you’re not going to take it seriously.” Oh, so that’s her point. You should’ve known it was too good to be true. Lena said it was ok if you still went supering with Kara, but you know, deep inside, that wasn’t exactly how she was feeling about this. You know Kara, you know when she doesn’t actually mean something. And this is her not meaning a word she is saying to you.

“I call bullshit!”

“LANGUAGE!” She interrupts and you roll your eyes.

“I didn’t nearly drop it. I was paying attention the entire time and I can recite the entire conversation beginning to end. Besides-” You shrug. “Had I dropped it, I would be able to fix it on the spot, because I made it myself.” You look at her, crossing your arms. “So, why can’t you bring me to missions? The truth, Kara Danvers. Remember that we don’t do lies in this house.” You dare, earning a sigh from her instead of an actual answer.

“I guess you can still come.”

“Wow, don’t look so excited!” She doesn’t. She looks the opposite. Like she thought that her speech would work and she didn’t expect you to bite back. “And you didn’t answer the question, anyways.”

“There’s no reason-” Kara starts, but stops when you raise an eyebrow at her. “Ok, fine. Your mom thinks you need to focus more on other stuff.”

“Of course she does.” You narrow your eyes at Kara, looking deep inside hers. “What do you think I should do?”

“Focus on other-I-I think-” That’s how she leaves the sentence and you turn around, grabbing water and making your way to your bedroom. Before you leave the kitchen, though, you look behind with a sad smile.

“I won’t bother you with my presence anymore.” She tries to argue, but you’re too far away, and you pretend you can’t hear her.

You knew it. Lena tried to play it cool about you getting a bad grade, but you know her, you know Luthors. It’s not that easy and it’s not that simple. They don’t fail, they don’t raise quitters, they don’t accept nothing less than 100% at all times (or more).

Lucky for you, you had never failed anything before. But now, Lena’s true colors are shining and you can expect much more fire power coming. And you are correct.

“Um, what are you doing?” Lena asks, when she opens your bedroom door, and you look up from the game you’re playing on your videogame. You don’t answer, because it’s pretty obvious, you just blink at her, for her to go on. “Shouldn’t you be studying? Kara said you went on a mission with her this afternoon.”

“Yes, I did.” You agree, pausing the game, to look at her properly. “But it was earlier today and I already did all of my homework, and worked on a robotics project I had, so-” You show her the videogame.

“Great.” Except that she doesn’t look convinced. “Aren’t you grounded?”

“Yeah?” You ask, confused.

“Game.” She shows you her hand and you breathe deep placing your videogame on her hand. “If you have time to play, you have time to clean your bedroom.” She is almost closing the door, when she opens again and looks at you. “Dinner in 20, bedroom cleaned before it.”

You don’t answer, so she closes the door and you shuffle around in bed, upset. Too good to be true. You should’ve known.

The week goes on as you were expecting to. Everywhere you look, there’s Lena Luthor. It’s been getting kind of hard to ignore her constant presence. Now the great mother Luthor is back again and man, how you hate the great mother Luthor.

“Remember-” It’s Wednesday, she is dropping you off at school, and she doesn’t even have to say the words for you to know what’s coming after. You heard this every day this week.

“Focus your attention on your teacher’s voice.” You mimic her voice, and she looks at you, taking her eyes off the road.

“Are you making fun of me?” She asks, annoyed, and you roll your eyes, looking to the other side. “Because I don’t think is funny nor-”

“The car.” You say, pointing to the front, where the car in front of yours just stopped.

“Appropriate for you to be making-” She goes on like she can’t hear you.

“The car!” You say a little louder. “The car stopped!”

But it’s too late for her to stop now, and she’s definitely going to bump into the back of the car, whether she hits the brakes or doesn’t. You fly out the window and pick up her car, flying away with it. You land on an empty street behind your school, putting the car back on the ground. You open the door to pick up your backpack, throwing it over your shoulder.

“I get it. I can’t get distracted.” You wink, with a little bitch grin, and make your way to the school, leaving a trembling Lena Luthor behind.

You think that maybe that’s going to make her realize she’s being a little too harsh on you, but things don’t get better.

“What are you making?” Lena asks, going inside your lab on Thursday, and you look up from your prototype. Her voice is already accusatory, like you should be doing anything else, except what you’re doing right now, even though she doesn’t know what it is yet.

“Um, a solar battery for my-”

“Shouldn’t you be studying?” She asks and your face drops. Nothing has changed.

“This is studying.” You point to your book in front of you. “And I get extra points if I do it right and it works on the school’ scoreboard.”

Lena looks a little lost at the realization you’re not just playing around like she thought you were. She sighs, like she always does when she feels defeated, and agrees with her head, coming closer.

“You should change the resistor for it to have more power.” She points at it, and you look up, staring at her with a confused expression.

“I used the 4.7K, it should be enough for the scoreboard.”

“If you use the 100K you’ll have more power.”

“Mom, 100K is enough to power our house, I think I can make it work with the 4.7 just fine, if I just-”

“Fine.” She interrupts, making her way to the door. “Do it however you like it. But don’t blame me if you don’t get the extra points that you’re looking for.”

You hung your head low, thinking this feels a lot like you imagine living with Lillian Luthor would be like. The constant pressure, the picking on every detail of everything that you do. Lena leaves your lab and you put your head down on the table, feeling the tears coming. You shouldn’t feel so bad that she’s pushing you so much, but this feels harder and harder the more that you think about it, because she was never this tough on you until you got your first bad grade.

So, when Friday comes you pretty much had it with her breathing down your neck, and her aggressive attitude for absolutely no reason.

“I hope that’s homework.” She says, late at night, when she comes into the kitchen and sees you and Kara looking at something, and giggling together. It’s Friday night, she can’t possibly be serious right now.

“OH MY GOD, WILL YOU STOP?” You yell, and your eyes widen when you notice what you just did. You yelled, but yet you wish she somehow hadn’t heard you.

“Excuse me?” Lena raises her eyebrows at you. She heard you. Of course she heard you.

“I’m sorry I yelled, but God! You need to back off a little.” You regret saying that too, because her eyes are shooting daggers at you and you know you’re in deep trouble. It doesn’t really help either that Kara is looking shocked, mouth agape and wide eyes next to you.

“Do you want to repeat that?” Lena asks, giving you a way out. You should take it.

“I do not.” See. A lot easier. Except. Except the words are still fighting on your mind and you’re trying very hard to hold them back, but you just blurt out, instead. “Because I’m sure you heard me.”

Oh no. What the fuck are you doing?

Kara sucks on her breath, and you know she won’t protect you from whatever avalanche of words that are coming, because you brought this on yourself.

“You must be mistaking me for someone else.” Lena steps in a little closer. “Because I don’t believe you would be insane enough to disrespect me like this.”

“Mom, I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be disrespectful.” You say, trying to calm her and yourself down. “I really don’t, but you said you weren’t mad about my grade, but you’ve been acting like you are. And then you said I could go supering with momma, but told her she had shut me down.”

“I did no such thing.” She defends herself looking at Kara, who just looks down trying to ignore her look.

“Look, I-I get it. You think that I’m a failure.” You bite your cheek, trying not to cry when you say this. “And maybe I am, because I got a bad grade, but-”

“You are not a failure.” She stops before you go on.

“Well, that’s how you’re making me feel.” You breathe out deep. “It’s too much pressure. I don’t understand what I have done to deserve that. I got a bad grade, and that’s it. I know we’re Luthors and Luthors don’t fail, but-but I told I’ll do better next time and you believed me. Why don’t you anymore?”

You feel Kara’s hand holding your knee under the table. It’s her way of saying that she’s got you, even though she’s definitely not going to say anything. It doesn’t matter, you feel supported, anyways.

“I believe you.” Lena says, pulling the chair in front of you, and she sits down with a sigh. “I just want to make sure you’re doing your best in every area of your life, baby.”

“And you think that bossing me around is going to help that?” You’re still trying to hold back the tears, but it’s harder when the next phrase goes out your mouth. “FYI, this is the first time you called me baby all week.”

Lena looks a little lost. Like she hadn’t really noticed she was being this stern with you. You clean a tear that is running down your face, and feel another squeeze on your leg. You look at Kara giving her a thankful smile.

“I agree that I shouldn’t be listening to you while I was taking a test, but I got an F in French, and still managed to help you with your experiment. So, why can’t that be a win? A tiny little ‘let’s not drive our kid to madness’ kind of win?” You breathe deep, putting one hand under the table, and holding Kara’s. She is there. She supports you.

“Ok.” Lena finally lets out, after what it feels like minutes. “Ok, yeah. I’ve been acting a little too severe for my own liking too.” You agree with your head. “I don’t want you to feel like you’re a failure because you got a bad grade. And, you’re allowed to make mistakes.”

“Not only at school.” Kara adds, earning an agreeable look from Lena. She holds your hand up, and kisses it with a smile. “You know, failing it’s not about not making mistakes. But rather stop trying. Failure is just a price to pay for success.”

“Wow.” You look at Kara with teary eyes, but a playful smile on your lips. “Where did you read that?”

“Shut up.” She jokes pushing your shoulder with hers.

“Well, even though Kara clearly just quoted someone…” Lena also jokes, making Kara stick her tongue out, in a very childish attempt to defend herself. “She’s right. I don’t want you to think you have to be right and successful all the time. What I want is for you to never stop trying to be better than you were before.”

“I can do that.” You agree with your head to make your point. “If you just let me breathe a little.”

“I can do that.” Lena parrots, and you smile a little. She calls you with her hand and you let go of Kara’s hand, rounding the table and going to her. She pulls you into her lap and hugs you tight. “I love you, babygirl. You’re not and never will be a failure to me, ok?”

“Promise?” You beg, and she kisses your forehead whispering softly onto it.

“I promise.”

And it’s not like they’re never going to pressure you to be better again. You know that this will probably happen at times. You belong to a family of heroes. Super or not. Your best is different from everyone else’s best. You were always aware of this fact, and nothing is going to change that. But you will get better with dealing with this and hopefully they will too.

Notes:

Thanks @youngjusticeimaginesus for this prompt. I hope you enjoy it :)

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

What do you think would happen if one of the Cullens realized they might also be "in love" with Bella during Twilight along side Ed. Mates be damned (not like their marriages are gonna last anyway), and everyone's on the table (just 1 love rival, not at the same time buuuuut could you imagine the chaos? *cough*). The usual Bella eaten/killed by Eddy boi is def on the table obvie, but like do you think there's a chance he might concede to one of his family (or just any other alternatives)? -Sw

Oh boy.

Why I Don’t Think This Is a Possibility

That said, I have to caveat that I don’t think this is a very likely path (sorry, I cannot resist).

It’s true I don’t think any of the Cullen relationships will last in the long term, but I also don’t think they’re inclined to cheat on one another or fall apart at a moment’s notice. They’ve made it this long, several decades, but more, none of them realizes anything is lacking from their respective relationship. 

Carlisle and Esme are very devoted to one another and don’t realize they have fundamentally conflicting values. Jasper and Alice think they fulfil each other’s needs and don’t realize that they share nothing in common. Rosalie and Emmett’s is the healthiest relationship in the house but don’t see their major issues (Emmett doesn’t really support or understand Rosalie and Rosalie loves Emmett mostly for his love of her).

My point being, none of them are going to realize it’s not working out anytime soon. They’re going to need a catalyst, and per the end of Twilight, one is coming. Either a confrontation with the Volturi occurs, Renesmee decides to leave, the Cullen lifestyle changes, or things with Bella go awry. It can be any number of things, and it will happen given time, but at the start of Twilight we haven’t hit that point yet.

There’s also the fact that of the Cullens, only Edward would do this nonsense, and even for him it takes Bella’s delicious blood to grab his attention. When she was an ordinary human, he was not interested in the slightest, not even in her gift.

Each of the Cullens (Sans Alice and Esme) is completely baffled by Edward’s emotional whiplash and attachment to this human girl he doesn’t even know. Bella only becomes a vague concept to them when she enters as a serious fixture in Edward’s life, but even then, they really don’t know what to think.

No one in the family will do what Edward did in Twilight. Look at this girl they don’t even know and say “Ah, yes, I’m in love.” 

Now, that out of the way, let’s play ball.

Alice

This actually will work out shockingly well if only because I suspect Alice will come up with the pragmatic solution of “sharing”.

First, Alice is by far the closest Cullen member to Edward. He holds her in high esteem, feels a strong sense of kinship with her, actually confides in her, and sees her as a very close friend. Edward looks up to Carlisle and adores Esme, but it’s not the same.

If Alice sees herself as getting together with Bella I don’t think she’d see this as mutually exclusive to Edward having Bella. Alice cares deeply for Edward’s happiness, far more than she does Bella’s general existence, and I think the idea of entering a joint marriage with Edward and Bella would be very appealing to her.

She’d have to ease Edward into it, of course, as he’d balk at the very idea of it, but I think he’d see it as a strengthening of his and Alice’s relationship as well as having the wonderful Bella. Better yet, Alice can be physical with Bella while Edward can go compose music about their love.

As it is this... This is kind of what happens in canon.

Alice tells Edward that not only is he in love with Bella, but that Bella is going to be her best friend, so he better not muck it up. She has to ease him into the idea of being in love with Bella throughout the first part of Twilight. Then, when the relationship is solidified, Alice is right there introducing herself as Bella’s new BFF. Bella’s friendship with Alice throughout the series is extremely homoerotic and I imagine it remains so after Breaking Dawn.

Edward is very pleased that Bella counts Alice as her best friend, Alice being far and away his favorite sibling and the one he approves of Bella spending time with (generally, when she’s not foiling his schemes). 

I don’t think Alice and Bella will ever have sex, per se, but I imagine they remain quite physical with each other and Edward looks on with approval thinking to himself that this is how all female friendships should be.

And if Jasper has the nagging suspicion his wife is cheating on him then he’s not functioning quite well enough to put it into words just yet.

Carlisle

Edward would lose his mind.

First, Edward is very into Carlisle, and for all he insists his feelings are filial they sound remarkably romantic. I’d drop a quote, but it’s pretty much every time Edward thinks of Carlisle in Midnight Sun. More than that, Carlisle is the man Edward aspires to be, someone he sees as profoundly more good than he could ever hope to be.

Edward projects a very similar personality onto Bella herself.

So, I imagine if Carlisle sits Edward down and says, “Actually, Edward, I have fallen in love with this Bella” Edward feels very conflicting things all at once.

On the one hand, this means Esme/Carlisle is collapsing. Edward personally brought those two together and adores the idea of their relationship. Their relationship is what he hopes his and Bella’s will look like and is to him the married ideal of a perfect Mother and a perfect Father.

Carlisle/Esme alone falling apart would give him a complete existential crisis. That’s not allowed to happen. 

And then that Carlisle wants Bella Swan for himself?! Edward would be faced with the immediate,horrifying, thought that for all Carlisle is a vampire he would be the perfect man for saint like Bella. Carlisle and Bella deserve one another, would be perfect together, and Edward should not begrudge them that.

On the other hand, Edward himself is in love with Bella, and while he thought he could nobly leave her, now he has to nobly stand to the side and watch as Carlsile and her marry. It’d be a very romantic and tragic thing to do, but there’s leaving Bella to her human life, and then watching her up front for the rest of eternity while bitterly hiding his feelings.

More, Carlisle will turn her. If Bella is his true love, then there’s no question of that. Edward’s seen where this goes with Emmett. He will destroy Bella Swan to be with her forever, and Edward will have to live with the shell of Bella Swan staring back at him, fucking his father, forever.

I imagine Edward desperately pretends to concede to Carlisle, to be happy for the pair of them, but as things progress and Bella’s permanent position in the family looks more and more likely, he loses his mind. He’ll snap and there is no telling what he might do.

My money’s on him mercy killing Bella while she’s still human behind Carlisle’s back. He’s sobbing while he does it, but he just can’t let Bella be tarnished by vampirism, and now he will carry this tragic, terrible, secret for the rest of time.

Whether Carlisle was going to turn her or not is up to debate. Given he turned none after Emmett, I think he learned his lesson from Rosalie and would be more than willing to let Bella go, even if he loves her, should it mean he would not force something she does not want and does not understand upon her.

That said, I think he’d never tell Edward his feelings for Bella, as that would ruin Edward’s fledgling relationship with the girl. This is Edward’s first brush with love and seems to be the only romantic love he’ll ever have. Edward has been so miserable for so long that Carlisle would easily give up his own happiness for Edward.

So, more likely, Twilight would happen anyway and Carlisle would spend the entire time being utterly miserable and pretending he’s perfectly fine. LOOK HOW HAPPY HE IS, ESME.

Emmett

Edward tattles to Rosalie immediately.

He loves Emmett, but he knows Emmett can’t possibly be serious about this, and more, fundamentally doesn’t understand how wonderful and amazing Bella is. He wants to turn her into a vampire, clearly, Emmett doesn’t know what’s best for the girl.

More, a man who would so easily break his marriage vows (even to Rosalie), does not deserve Bella Swan.

Edward watches Rosalie and Emmett’s marriage utterly disintegrate with a juice box filled with mountain lion blood and swoops in on Bella while Emmett is thoroughly distracted. Edward then gaslights Bella into believing Emmett is dangerous and despises her, making Emmett the new and improved Jasper.

Esme

Esme would never tell Edward or likely even realize her feelings for Bella herself. If she did though, she would give up the possibility of a future with Bella Swan in a heartbeat for Edward’s happiness, which means everything to her.

Esme will have no regrets, won’t even smile sadly at Bella, because she has Carlsile as her consolation prize and she gets to see the joy in both Bell and Edward’s faces which is far more important than having Bella to herself.

Esme would live vicariously through Bella and Edward’s relationship as well as the very existence of Renesmee.

Like Alice, this is one of those things that’s pretty much canon. I won’t say anything for Esme’s feelings, it’s more that Esme ships Bella with Edward (and mostly because Edward himself comes to obsess over her), but she does seem to vicariously get her joy through their nuclear family within the Cullen family.

Esme is a very strange person.

Jasper

Edward would attempt to murder Jasper or at least severely injure him. Jasper would be the ultimate threat to Bella, not even a man unworthy of her but not a man at all, and exactly what Edward needs to protect Bella against.

Alice tries to stop the fight, to no avail, and Edward will ultimately lose (despite all his confidence). I imagine Jasper doesn’t kill him, but tears apart his limbs, and uses Edward’s lack of mobility to kidnap and then turn Bella.

Bella has no idea what’s happening and the next thing she knows she’s a vampire and Jasper is telling her they have to leave the area (as he must now leave the coven).

Edward tries to track them down for the rest of eternity. He will get vengeance upon Jasper and save Bella this terrible demonic existence forced upon her. Of course, he ends up lost in Rio.

Rosalie

Edward would tell her that her feelings cannot possibly be real. Bella is a woman. More, Rosalie is unworthy of Bella in every possible regard, even more so than Edward himself.

Basically, Edward would lay into Rosalie in a way that he never has before with all of his venom. He will do everything he can to sabotage Bella’s opinion of Rosalie before Rosalie can even get a word in edgewise. He is successful at it due to Bella’s perilously low self esteem (much the reason he was successful with this endeavor in canon).

Rosalie and Edward get in a vicious fight and I imagine Rosalie eventually confronts Bella, making an opportunity to do so, and both warns her away from Edward, tells her everything, and offers to turn her despite Rosalie’s own mixed experiences.

Rosalie and Edward probably then fight and it quickly turns into something that’s very serious. If Edward wins, he murders Rosalie in the heat of the moment, and then leaves the coven in horror over what Carlisle must think of him now. If Rosalie wins... I don’t think she will, she cares for Edward far too much and would never truly be able to aim to kill or maim.

Edward disappears, drowning in his self hatred, and returns to find Bella Swan at some later date unable to resist the call of her scent. Depending where she is in her life, he likely murders her human husband if she has one and dvours her, as Alice prophesied so long ago.

[ibijau]

I’ve sent you an ask like this before but like. reverse au where nhs’ goal is wrh instead of jgy - imagining little nhs with his father’s blood on his saber unable to stop bawling but insisting that he has to go on trial for the murder of his father - being furious when he’s not pronounced guilty because it has to be someone’s fault - little nmj crying sympathy tears and trying to guard huaisang against whatever’s making him cry -

lxc only starts to let go of his jealousy of how frivolous sect leader nhs is allowed to be when wrh attacks nhs in the middle of a cultivation conference and is bravely defeated by now-jgy and lxc sees nhs first realize through his tears that wrh may have been the one to kill his father - he lets go of it entirely as he begins to suspect the decimation of the main branch of the wen clan took a lot more hard work than chance

oops, I went for something centered around the Nie brothers with this orz

It was just the three of them in that room when it happened, and though Mingjue is quite young, he is brought to testify at that trial his da-ge insists on having. When the elders ask, he explains that he had closed his eyes and didn't see much. He doesn’t tell them that his da-ge had just ordered him to close them. If it’s relevant, his da-ge will say something.

But Huaisang stays silent, except for some quiet sobbing.

“You didn’t see, but you heard,” one elder insists. “So what did you hear?”

“A-die was angry,” Mingjue replies, eyes darting toward his brother. “He was shouting at us.” He hesitates. “It’s words da-ge says I’m not allowed to know and if I use them around grown-ups I’ll be in trouble.”

The elders smile weakly at this well-behaved boy of seven.

“Just for today, you can say it. We need to understand, er-gongzi.”

Mingjue glances again at his brother. He only speaks again when his da-ge nods at him through his tears.

“A-die said that I was just the son of a whore and he was tired of me scheming against da-ge,” Mingjue recites, the accusation branded onto his mind. He can still hear the exact tone of his father’s voice, feel the power of his unrestrained aura oppressing him to the point he nearly fainted. “A-die also said that da-ge was a disgrace anyway and he was going to get rid of both of us and have real sons, instead of a Wen and a bastard. Then I heard blades hitting, and A-die shouted a-die couldn't hurt me, and there was a fight, and then everything was very quiet and da-ge said I needed to go get help.”

The elders nod solemnly. Huaisang sobs harder, his face awash with tears. He presses both hands against his mouth in an effort to keep quiet, so he won’t disturb the trial too much, but it’s not very efficient. Their cousin Zonghui, standing next to him, pats Huaisang’s shoulder to try to calm him.

“What did you see, before you left the room?” one elder asks.

Mingjue doesn’t answer right away. It’s fine to take time to remember, they told him early on, so he does that. In truth though, it’s not like he could ever forget the sight of his brother, usually so soft and funny, standing over the still twitching corpse of their father. He hasn’t forgotten that their father was breathing and even moaning when he left. He recalls, also, how different his da-ge had looked with his bloody sabre in hand, that hard look on his face.

When Mingjue had returned with help, his father had stopped breathing, and there was no hardness left to Huaisang who had dropped his sabre and was sobbing in a corner.

“There was a lot of blood,” Mingjue says, which isn’t a lie.

His eyes catch Huaisang’s. His da-ge, who doesn’t let anyone insult him for his mother, who told Mingjue many nice stories about her, since he never got to meet her. His da-ge who encourages him even when others say that the son of a servant shouldn’t be given the education of a young master, shouldn't dare to be better than children of higher birth. His da-ge, lazy and spoiled, but always putting in the effort when he feels Mingjue needs protecting.

It’s Mingjue’s turn to protect him now.

“I onlyremember the blood, and that I was scared,” he claims.

This time, it��s a lie.

But he can’t let them hurt his da-ge.

-

At the issue of that trial, it is decided that Huaisang acted out of self defence, and cannot be too harshly punished for the murder of his father. He has to offer sacrifices to the heavens and make public penance, but there won’t be lasting consequences, and he still gets to be sect leader.

Uncle Wen would not allow for anything else, Mingjue hears some of the elders whisper.

Uncle Wen went through a lot of trouble to make sure Qinghe Nie stopped bothering him, they also say. And now his sister’s child is ruling the only sect that used to stand up to him.

Huaisang laughs when Mingjue repeats this to him one night, while his da-ge puts him to bed for the night. Everything else has changed, but not this: Huaisang makes the time to take care of his didi, and Mingjue worries for his da-ge. Making time is harder than it used to be, the worries have become bigger than before, but fundamentally it’s still the same.

“Don’t listen to what those old farts say,” Huaisang advises as he tucks Mingjue under his blanket. “And don’t let them catch you listening, either. They’ll think you’re going to repeat things to me.”

“I do repeat things to you,” Mingjue points out. “And they shouldn’t be saying things like that. It’s not right to speak about people behind their back. A-die said people should speak their grievance in the light, or not at all.”

Huaisang smiles, and pets his hair.

“A-die was a good man,” he says. “Don’t let anyone make you forget that. A-die was the best man in the world. The way he was at the end, that wasn’t him. He was kind, and he loved you, and he was the best man any of us will ever meet… but this isn’t a world for good men.”

Mingjue frowns. His da-ge has always said odd things, but it has gotten worse lately.

“Da-ge is good too,” he mutters, unable to express the worry starting to form in his chest.

What he means is this: if good men are struck down by a cruel world, then his da-ge, who is good, might be at risk of dying. The thought terrifies him, and he would do anything to keep his da-ge alive. He lied for him at the trial, and he can do it again.

Huaisang laughs again.

“Don’t you worry about me!” he snickers, ruffling his brother’s hair. “I’m not good at all. Haven’t you heard people complain how little good I am?”

“You’re lazy not good, not bad not good,” Mingjue corrects. "Not like uncle."

Da-ge's good humour is shattered, replaced by a severe frown which makes him look too much like he did, that night their father died. Mingjue doesn't like it.

"MingMing, you remember the rule about uncle, right?"

"I don't say anything bad about uncle where others can hear," Mingjue meekly recites. "Only da-ge can say if it's safe to talk about uncle. Sorry. I know you didn't say."

"It's fine this time, but be more careful. Uncle is dangerous. He killed a-die, he'll kill us too if he realises we're not on his side. And we're not. Whose side are we on?"

"Each other," Mingjue dutifully replies.

He knows it's the right answer, but only if they're alone. If there are sect elders, Mingjue must claim loyalty to the sect. If they are in front of Wen Ruohan, he must say family. But the truest of truth is that he'd do anything for his da-ge, and da-ge has proven more than once he'd do anything for Mingjue.

"You're a good boy," da-ge said, ruffling his hair once more. "Don't think too much about these things. Da-ge will take care of all the problems for you."

"But I can help!"

"Yes you can," Huaisang agreed, pinching his cheek. "You can help by doing as you're told. Can you do that?"

Past events prove that Mingjue, on the whole, isn't good at doing what he's told, not when he thinks he's told to do something stupid. Sometimes, he makes a big argument about that. He's young, not stupid, and he doesn't want to do things just because grown-ups have ideas about how things should be.

But da-ge looks really tired tonight, and Mingjue doesn't want to become yet another problem on his brother's mind. So he nods dutifully.

It makes da-ge smile, so it was probably okay to lie.

[kozzax]

so recently the folks over at @petrichormeraki have been working on a silent tommy au because of a few asks talking about mute!tommy. and one of the things that’s canon in that au is the fact that xisuma is the only mortal hermit. i took this as free reign to work out why each of the other hermits is immortal. some of them are gods, some of them are demigods, some of them are supernatural beings, but none of them (except xisuma) can be killed through feasible means.

because of the sheer amount of immortal hermits there just to live out immortality in peace, i like to think hermitcraft is sometimes referred to jokingly as ‘the retirement zone’ by other immortal beings. most mortals outside of hermitcraft wouldn’t know the hermits are all like... gods and shit.

hermits + their immortality under the cut because oh god this was supposed to be a fast post but i accidentally wrote... a lot. whoops!

Grian is a watcher. He was a watcher before he joined hermitcraft. That’s... just. Canon Grian Lore TM. Not much to explain with him.

Cleo and Joe are both immortal by virtue of no longer being capable of being mortal. As both of hem are undead beings (cleo a zombie and joe a ghost), killing them again isn’t... possible. In addition to this, at some point during their afterlife, they managed to gather enough power between the two of them to be labelled as the “Twin Gods of Life and Death”. Which one is life and which one is death? That depends on the day.

Cub and Scar are definitely not gods. But the deals the two made with the Vex are almost more of an insurance on their immortality. The Vex protect their ConVex as a dragon protects its hoard. Not only can the two of them hold their own in a fight, but their respawn is insured by the fact that even if they were to permadie, the Vex would bring them back anyways. 

False is the Queen of Hearts, Heads, and Body Parts. She’s also a vampire. In a similar vein, Ren is a werewolf. Both of them can only be killed through very specific means, and neither can die of old age. Throughout their many years in the worlds, they’ve gathered tons of skills and allies. Although now they’ve both stepped down, content to enjoy their peaceful lives and chill out in Hermitcraft, each of them was once a ruler of their respective factions. The ‘queen’ part of False’s title was never just a title.

Etho was granted immortality by a council of gods, after they took a liking to his interesting antics and kept an eye on his longstanding worlds.

Doc, BDubs, Beef, and Etho (again) were all brought to Hermitcraft as the last ‘mortal’ members to join. The general idea was that maybe they could give Xisuma some company and relief from the antics of his immortal and godly friends. This did not happen. Instead, the universe decided it was going to give all of them godly powers in their own right. Etho himself may have been immortal, but he and the rest of the NHO all grew infinitely more powerful after leaving the jungle of season 5.

Stress is a dryad. She can control and warp the nature around her in strange and beautiful ways. In addition to this, were her body to ever get fully destroyed in a way that would prevent her from respawning, a new body would instead form for her out of the nature wherever she died. This is how ice queen stress came about in season 6.

Impulse actually bullshitted his own way into immortality. Where most of the other hermits were either brought into it by someone else or born into it, Impulse actually discovered the secret of immortality while he was trying to figure out how totems of undying were made. He now knows how to create totems and how to become immortal, though he won’t tell anyone else if they ask. Part of the process of creating totems involved...

...Tango, who is a demon. As a demon, his powerset includes but is not limited to both pyrokinesis and an affinity for very very large and very very deadly animals. He doesn’t use those abilities on Hermitcraft often, but they’re in his skillset for sure.

As a byproduct of the immortality, Zedaph showed up in the current timeline. His immortality is... strange, because it’s not technically immortality. Zedaph, as a person, is mortal and can die. Zedaph, as a being, though, is one of billions of Zedaphs in the universe; each of whom is nearly identical to the others; and whenever one Zedaph dies, he is replaced instantly with a new Zedaph; a functionally identical Zedaph to the one who died. Nobody’s quite sure how this process works, but Zed claims it’s through “time travel”.

Jevin, as a slime, can actually inhabit any portion of his slime that he wants; no matter how small the amount. Even if he were limited to one singular molecule of slime, he could still exist around that molecule and regenerate slime until he was fully present again, though it might take a little while for him to complete that process. The only way to kill Jevin is by fundamentally altering the chemical makeup of every single molecule of slime he’s ever had anywhere. It simply won’t happen. He does use his abilities to get out of conversations, if he’s feeling particularly annoyed at the time.

TFC is potentially one of the most interesting hermits, in his prior responsibilities. It’s easy to forget that he’s not mortal, considering how frighteningly average he acts in his day to day life. One peek into any of his bunkers, though, and you’re hit right in the face with a bold reminder. TFC used to be one of the gods responsible for shaping the very worlds players would walk on; more specifically, he was in charge of cave systems and mineshafts for a long time. He’s retired from that life and is having a lovely time in Hermitcraft, just vibing.

Wels gained his immortality through a deal with the patron god of the kingdom he grew up serving. He made this deal as a young knight and watched for decades as the kingdom grew and prospered, Wels himself known far and wide as quite probably the best warrior of them all. After being dismissed honorably by the kingdom, as he’d been protecting them for many decades now and the rulers honestly felt he deserved a break, the god he’d made a deal with finalized this immortality. He joined Hermitcraft not long after, and has taken up a spot doing his part to protect the hermits.

Iskall was somewhat of an enforcer, for the gods. Were a god to be acting particularly out of line, Iskall would be called in to bring them to the council for trial. Sometimes his targets came peacefully, sometimes he’d have to use force to bring them in. No matter what he had to do, there wasn’t a single target he missed. He both can and will kill a god if he must. Technically, Iskall’s still on call, but generally councils don’t call on him unless absolutely necessary anymore.

Hypno made a deal with a god many years ago, trading his mortality for the ability to see hundreds of thousands of alternate paths for the future. He wanted to chronicle them, and he still spends one or two days a week writing out winding paths of the future. When he’s not working, he wears his bandana to cover up the third eye that allows him this insight. This helps him focus on the now, rather than the futures that may or may not be.

Xb is an eldritch being with reality warping abilities. He has them under fairly good control, most of the time. They really only become an issue when he gets too much pent-up magical energy at once; examples of this being things like season changes. His season 7 base is built around what happens when he needs to release. It’s a post apocalypse world, and the apocalypse was him.

Mumbo is definitely both magical and immortal, but the specifics of his powers are incredibly unclear. The hermits know it has something to do with redstone, maybe, and that the unpredictability of Hermit Challenges are a reflection of his strange and confusing powerset, but nobody’s really sure where his immortality stems from. Every time you ask him he gives you a different answer. The mumbonis are all different joking theories as to where his powers came from.

[leminione9795]

Hi! I have a question about JK’s graduation Bangtan Bomb that I’d love your insight on. I mean, this whole video is A LOT (lol) but at around 6:25, Jimin says he looks like JK’s dongsaeng (in JK’s middle school graduation photo). Then JK looks at JM for a second and then points at JM and says something that isn’t translated in the captions. I saw someone translate that JK says something like “look at that ring on your finger”, as if he didn’t like that JM called himself JK’s brother. Is this accurate? Also, what are K-Armies fave parts of this video?? Thank you!!

Link: youtu(.)be/gUDo_vxLDsw

Hi! Thanks for giving me an excuse to go rewatch this gem, I had a blast being reminded of how young JK still was back then 😂 (I mean, they all still technically are, but you know what I mean.)

So here is the exact exchange from the part you mentioned.

V says: Jungkook, I mean Jimin, you really are a baby here. (정국아, 아니 지민아, 너 진짜 애기다 이때.)

The camera switches to Jimin just as Jimin is saying: I look younger than Jungkook. (나 정국이 동생 같아. / literal translation: I’m like Jungkook’s younger sibling.)

Jimin is still out of focus when he finishes saying that. There’s a weird jump right before he says the next words that makes me think part of the convo was edited out. 

And this is what wasn’t in the captions.

Jimin: People age, hyung-nim. (사람은 늙는 법입니다 형님. / *I left the word hyung-nim untranslated because just from the sentence itself it’s impossible to figure out who he was addressing) 

I’m guessing RM must have said something about Jimin’s baby face when that weird jump/edit happened because Jimin glances at JK and then looks in V/RM’s direction while saying this, and it couldn’t have been directed at V because Jimin was speaking formally and addressed the other person as hyung-nim. Since Suga, Jin and Hobi are busy looking at their phones, it only leaves RM. 

Then RM says something about Jimin that I have a hard time making out.

I feel like it starts out with Jimin actually... (사실 지민이가) but it also sounds like Jimin always... (항상 지민이가). The last part of this sentence before Jungkook interrupts is the most confusing. I want to say RM uses the word ‘길���주다’ which means ‘to raise/bring up’, but it’s so mumbled that I’m not even 10% sure that that’s what he said. (Meaning, don’t quote me on this 😨)

Anyway, JK then chimes in to point at Jimin’s fingers and say: Look at the rings on his hand, look at the rings (아 손에 반지 봐, 반지 봐). 

Okay so I wouldn’t interpret this as JK reacting to Jimin calling himself JK’s younger sibling. I mean, first of all, the word “동생 [dongsaeng]” is used EXTREMELY liberally in Korean colloquialism, as are other words that describe family members, such as hyung/nuna/unnie/oppa/imo/gomo etc. When Jimin or any other BTS member refers to JK as their “dongsaeng”, they don’t mean it like when English speakers say “he’s my/our bro” about a non-family member. Fundamentally it only ever means that JK is younger. So no, although Jimin referred to himself as looking like JK’s “dongsaeng”, all he meant was he looks younger, so there’s nothing to dislike from JK’s side other than if he didn’t want to look older than an actual older member. If the implication of people thinking JK didn’t like that JM called himself JK’s brother were along the lines of “They can’t be boyfriends, he said brother!”, then no, that’s not what Jimin meant and certainly not how JK understood. 

Second of all, as I pointed out above, there seems to be an edit between Jimin saying “I look younger than Jungkook” and saying “People age, hyung-nim”. It looks like RM made a comment about something, possibly on the topic of age/aging/Jimin’s baby face/etc, and Jimin responded to that. Then RM says something else, which is interrupted by Jungkook pointing out Jimin’s rings. We can’t be sure why JK is bringing up the rings, like what’s he getting at? Did he want to point out the existence of the rings? The multiplicity of them? Some other attribute that somehow ties into the conversation? Who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️ In any case, with the edit and the mumbled words from RM it’s hard to figure out the logical connection between the rings and previous conversation. Maybe RM was commenting on how Jimin’s appearance and style has changed over the years, and JK was agreeing to it like, yeah look how many rings he wears nowadays. 

Now of course I can’t speak for all Korean KMers but the part that I do see being brought up from time to time in regard to this video has to be the Kookmin/Tae exchange in the car. Specifically, the way Tae was just sitting there happy to observe KM’s shameless flirting, and how JK was literally serenading Jimin with Yoon Jong Shin’s song with those suggestive eyes. Jungkook picking an apartment as a graduation gift also is talked about a lot, although I personally think it has more to do with JK’s practical side (he used to talk about investment, tax returns, and financial management a lot even since he was young as far as I can remember) than to do with him hinting at cohabitation. 

Hope this helped!

[junova]

↬ 𝐥𝐨𝐯𝐞 𝐦𝐞 𝐚𝐠𝐚𝐢𝐧 | 𝐬. 𝐫𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐫𝐬

abstract — the one where the tables are turned. 

pairing — steve rogers x fem!reader 

wc — 1.6k 

warnings — unrequited feelings, fluff, angst, teasing!steve, cussing 

[m blabs] — this is not my best work but it was really fun to write! hope you enjoy nonetheless. happy reading! :’) ps this so cheesy i was in a moooooddddd pls it was fully inspired by the amazing tune love me again by raye (give it a listen she is a pure goddess)

Do you think he feels the same?” You questioned Sam as you watched Steve talk to Bucky. 

He looked good enough to eat with his tight button up, muscles practically ripping into the material of his shirt.

“You could just ask him.” Sam watched as you didn’t make a movement to break your gaze away from Steve. Especially, when Sharon slithered her way right next to him. 

“I could, but doesn’t mean I’m going to.” You finished the rest of your white wine before hopping off the bar stool. 

“Besides, it seems like he’s going home again with her and I’ll be going home alone.” You couldn’t help but notice how she flattened her palm against his chest, pushing you into the grave.  

“It’d be different if he actually knew how you felt.” Sam sighed. Genuinely he was growing tired of the ‘will they won’t they’. “You rejected him, he’s not going to go out baring his feelings if he does have them.” 

“Really? That’s what you’re playing at? We were in high school.” You honestly hadn’t thought about it in years and would be surprised if he had. “Yeah, it was seven years ago but he was in love with you.” 

You didn’t really like to think about it because it wasn't a version of yourself you liked to acknowledge. As much as you love Steve now, it was in a completely different way back then. 

Now? It seems like the universe really, really fucking hates you. 

“What’s that supposed to mean?” You questioned him, while eyeing the exit. Upset you even poked the bear in the first place. “It means he wanted nothing more than to be with you and he got rejected. Shit stings no matter who it’s coming from.” 

“Especially since the two of you were inseparable.” You kind of got what he was saying, but really hadn’t given it too much thought. “He had girlfriends after me. He even dated Peggy for two years.” 

“Have you ever thought about why he wouldn’t commit?” Sam drilled you, trying to help you connect the very two simple dots. “Lots of people in their twenties don’t want to settle down. It’s normal.” You reasoned with him, almost like you already knew the answer. 

“Yeah, but you know why he broke up with her.” With furrowed eyebrows you looked up quizzically at him. 

“Weren’t you leaving, princess?” Sam’s endearing tone could have fooled anyone, but you knew what he was playing at. 

And you didn’t like it one bit. 

A simple, exasperated grunt directed towards Sam and you were just about stomping out of the runned down pub you couldn’t stop from requesting at. 

What you didn’t notice was Steve watching your body funnel out the exit, detangling himself from Sharon making his way to you. 

He didn’t reach you until you were sitting down on the wooden bench across the street. It wasn’t like you intended to stay here, especially downtown but seeing Steve be so close to her just didn’t seem better than this. 

Perhaps, you were being a bit of a child. Steve loved you seven years ago, you couldn’t be mad because he moved on. No matter what Sam was insinuating you knew better. 

It just really sucked your feelings only started to develop now you’d gone through a laundry list of boyfriends to realize none of them could give you what you needed. He was fundamentally better in every prospect. 

“Hey, stranger.” There he was. Your knight in the darkness coming to your protection. You’d be lying if you said it didn’t make you beam that he’d left Sharon alone to be here with you. 

“Hi, Stevie.” He was smiling wide and part of you questioned if he was just saying goodbye, too. “You alright? Sam and you seemed to be getting into it, a bit.” 

Was he watching you? 

“Yeah, it’s fine. Sam was just helping me with some guy trouble.” You exhaled, not wanting to get into. Obviously. 

“He just wasn’t much help so I stormed off kinda pissed off. You know? The usual.” You were about to steer the conversation in another direction, but Steve didn’t want to leave it alone. 

He just became more insistent. 

“Maybe I can help. What’s going on?” Making his effort valid, he sat down right next to you with his thigh pressing against your own. 

“C’mon, Stevie. I don’t want to bore you. Let’s just go for a walk.” You watched him think for a second, with his eyebrows raised and eyes to the sky. 

“Fine. We’ll go for a walk, but we’re definitely still talking about this.” He left it alone for a bit. Until you wandered to the city park, side by side on the swings, when he brought it up again. 

“Okay. Out with it, Bambi.” You looked at him defensively. “You did not just call me ‘Bambi’.” You made sure to gesture air quotes to the nickname you despised. 

“It’s endearing coming from me. I promise.” You wanted to push him further, but you decided not to. “Now, lay it on me. Who fucked you over this time? Was it Owen? I never liked him anyway.” 

“No, um, I broke up with him like three months ago. Where have you been?” You swung so your side bumped into his, but all Steve did was giggle.

“Too far away from you.” You tried to look anywhere but his cerulean pools. Surely, you would drown. 

Especially if you analyzed his words, you might think he was coming on to you and he wasn’t. This was Steve. 

“So, what’s the issue then? I thought you really into Owen. Sam said the two of you were thinking about moving in together.” He was questioning with intent, but you couldn’t sense where he was headed. 

“We were at the time, but I couldn’t go through with it. I had this self-realization, I guess.” He hopped out of the swing, until he was standing in front of you. Looking down at you, with a glimmer of light in his eyes. 

“You know you can tell me anything, right? I hope you’d feel safe enough to know I’d never judge you for anything.” And you did know it, but it was hard to think with his body so close against yours. 

“I know. It’s just hard for me to talk about.” You breathed out, trying to muster up some courage. Even if it was indirectly, you had a feeling he would pick up on it. 

It wasn’t like you were going to great lengths to try and hide it. 

“Well, you don’t have to if you don’t want to, but I’m one hell of a listener.” Steve grabbed you by the hand, intertwining it with his own as he tugged you off the swing and walking by his side. 

Smoothly, he brought his left arm around your waist, tugging you into his side. 

“It’s just, there’s a guy.” 

“Hun, I figured that much.” Ironically, enough you were afraid of the rejection you had served him on a silver platter. 

“I’ve never really been good at this stuff, you know. The big R. It always seems to tip south no matter what I do. Then I met Owen, and I just kept thinking this is the guy. He’s got to be it. He was sweet, kind, and committed, but something was just missing.” 

God, you couldn’t back away from this now. The way Steve was gazing down at you nearly made you want to. 

“Okay. Then what changed your mind?” Steve challenged you, daring you to finish. 

“I had a long conversation with Sam, funnily enough. He asked me who I saw myself with five years from now and it wasn’t with Owen.” You deeply sighed, hating yourself for rejecting someone else who had been so good to you. 

“Who did you see yourself with?” Steve stopped walking as you continued on, but he’s the one who didn’t miss a beat.  

“What?” Oh shit. Had I said that outloud? 

“You said it wasn’t Owen. Who was it then?” You felt your body run cold as you stopped with a determined Steve making his over to you. 

“Oh, you know. Sam, Bucky, Nat, and You. You guys are my family.” You tried to play it off, but you weren’t too sure if he was buying it. 

“Bambi, stop playing games.” 

Fuck. You were screwed. 

“I’m not. Some of us just don’t wear our heart on our sleeve.” 

Ouch. 

You knew it would sting and maybe that’s why you said it. Self sabotaging your chance with him would hurt much less than a rejection. 

“Then just tell me who it was you saw yourself next to. If you don’t wear your heart out it shouldn’t matter.” He grunted out, his patience wearing thin. 

“It doesn��t matter, Stevie. Leave it alone.” You pulled away from him, dashing into the other direction. Maybe you just didn’t have the guts to lay it all out there like he did. 

“I love you.” You whipped around, the same puppy dog look he’s given you seven years ago etched on his face. The same one begging for reciprocation many heartbreaks later. 

“You don’t.” Even if he did, you were sure you weren’t deserving of it. 

“I’ve been in love with you since I was eighteen and I know it’s a lot to ask but just don’t break my heart twice, Bambi. If it wasn’t me you were talking about, we’re pretending this never happened.” Before your brain could catch up with your heart, you threw yourself into his arms. 

“Never. Just love me again.” That he did.

[wisteria-lodge]

snake primary + slightly burnt snake secondary (some kind of built secondary model)

Hi hi hi!! Hope you’re well!! So tell me, is there a way to tell whether you’re a lion or a snake secondary beyond the actual “textbook” definitions? I think I’m pretty burnt, and I’m on my way to fixing that, but it would help to know where I’m supposed to be heading lol

(Btw, I’m a Sam coded Dean girl. I don’t think it’s relevant I just thought that system was both useful and hilarious and I’m so glad you posted that)

I also really liked how that turned out.

I’m pretty sure I’m an improv secondary. I think I’m bad at it, hence the burning, but it’s what comes naturally to me and what I would feel most proud of.

I end up planning for a bunch of things, and in some cases I don’t hate it.

Damning with faint praise.

Like if I’m giving a presentation, I open a word document and write down what I’m gonna say verbatim, even the language tics and pauses and hesitations and such, so it’s like I’m actually living it. Then I repeat the whole thing multiple times, amending it whenever I change something, until I feel like I’ve sort of gone through the experience already.

That is… the weirdest way of hacking an improvisational secondary. Because that’s what’s you’re doing. Improvisational secondaries need to be “in it,” so you get as close to that as possible in the prep work.

Then I scrap the whole thing and improvise when it’s actually happening – the result is often pretty different from the word doc

of course.

but I’m a bit more in my element because I’ve done it already and I know I can do it.

This is honestly a really good strategy to make yourself more comfortable with improvising? I can tell you’re unBurning, this feels very much like… training wheels, to me. Heck, I think I would recommend your method to another burnt Improvisational secondary.

I’m not sure, but I think that sort of thing is more built than improv?

Like, kind of? I’m autism spectum, and when I was younger I built a Bird model to help me feel more confident accessing my Courtier Badger. That’s what this feels like.

But I definitely feel like it’s a model I’ve developed to deal with social anxiety and my fear of failure lol. I didn’t do stuff like that before it got bad, and if I could deal with not doing it, I would.

I hear that.

In most other situations, though, I tend to jump right in and go with the flow. I really don’t think very far ahead. I guess I can if I try, when it’s just a matter of logic, but things like my life plans, my relationships, or even more short-term things like plans with friends or what I’m gonna eat or how I’m gonna deal with a task, I really can’t project into the future. I can’t really make decisions or see a situation clearly until I’m in it. Then I tend to make decisions very quickly, kind of on instinct, or whatever feels right in the moment.

You’re definitely an improvisational secondary.

(Actually maybe that’s a primary thing? I’m a snake primary, but I do have a very prominent lion model, and a bit of badger as well.)

Nah, that’s definitely an Improvisational secondary thing. I am curious about your primary though, because you say you don’t have too much in the way of life plans… and *that* is more where a primary would come in. You feel like a safe Snake to me (that is, a Snake whose people are safe) so there is a little bit of… what now? What is the Lion+Badger model you wear over the top interested in?

Point is, I prefer being spontaneous, even if it’s something important. Making plans and having to stick to them makes me feel trapped. I’m not the most constant person, and I like that about me. I want to have room to grow and change, even for the smallest things.

Completely, entirely fair.

Anyway, I feel like I’ve talked more about limitations and things I don’t want so far, but I guess that’s a burnt thing.

I mean, sure you’re a little underconfident, but you seem pretty far along to me.

I’ve seen you mention what’s really useful in determining a secondary is what you actually enjoy, so here goes. I like being in the moment, and I like being able to come up with ideas and solutions on the fly, by taking in the situation and using it to my advantage.

That’s very Snake secondary sounding language.

I think there’s a bit of a separation in my mind between “people things” and “being clever things.”

For “being clever things” (like… I don’t know, an escape room, a problem with an administration, a paper I have to write, video games, some kind of mystery…) I like to rely on being observant and quick-thinking, and if I can find loopholes or outsmart whoever I’m facing to win in an unexpected way, that’s even better (but really more for my ego than anything else, I guess finding the “normal” solution is okay, as long as you get there, it’s just less fun).

Hilarious. Yeah, you sound like a *confident* Snake secondary to me.

For “people things” (drama with family or friends, or if someone is being an ass, or if someone comes to me for advice on interpersonal things), I prioritize being straightforward and honest. If I have time to plan or if I’m giving advice, I might come up with something more sneaky and elaborate, but if I’m in the moment, I’m most likely to be really confrontational, stubborn and unyielding, even if it makes things more difficult for me.

Hmm. I am reading this as a Snake who likes being Neutral - especially those words “stubborn” and “unyielding.” There’s a reason Neutral Snakes are called “the unmovable object.”

If I catch myself, I try to avoid it, but that just means staying silent and removing myself from the situation – I can’t bring myself to make compromises if it feels like I’m betraying myself.

Okay, now that’s sounding more Lion.

To be clear, that’s almost exclusively with people I’m close to, or who are supposed to “know me”.

Oh okay. This is your secondary interacting with your primary. Actively lying to and misrepresenting yourself to Your People would be immoral to a Snake Primary.

With friends who aren’t in my inner circle, or acquaintances, or complete strangers, or authority figures, I might get upset internally if I’m perceiving a slight or injustice, but I can keep up the mask I need no problem. That being said, I don’t have a lot of patience for drama, so if whatever it is can’t be quickly resolved with a convenient lie or saying what works for me in a way they won’t mind hearing, I just stick to what I’m actually thinking and/or my neutral state (I’m not sure it’s accurate to use snake language here, but it feels like it and it’s convenient).

I think it’s highly appropriate and accurate. All that is reading very Snake.

I’ve seen a bunch of people say lion and snake secondaries are sort of at odds with each other, but I don’t really get the contradiction between them yet (as in, I don’t see why people can’t be both those “contradictory” things at the same time). I do mask a lot, and I enjoy it – I think it’s rewarding, and honestly it just makes sense – it’s what works best in that moment, and it feels natural to shift that way. I just don’t feel it’s a misrepresentation. The whole “it’s not cheating, it’s being clever” thing just feels a little too dishonest. Cheating is cheating, no need to be so smug about it. It’s not wrong, though, at least not always. If it’s hurting someone who doesn’t deserve it, then it’s wrong (might still do it if the alternative is worse, but that doesn’t mean it’s suddenly an ethical choice to make, it just means I’m okay with being immoral in that instance).

All that being said, I don’t think masking is being dishonest about yourself. I don’t think anything that comes out of my mind is “not me”, it just doesn’t work that way. The personas I have with different groups or people in my life are all genuine, it’s just that different sides of me are brought up. And if I’m acting in a way that’s actually not genuine, that mask is still my creation – if someone else were to come up with a mask for that same situation, it would be different, because their mind works differently. Everything you do is a reflection of yourself, and even if you were to try your best to be honest all the time, you’d never be able to show your true and complete self to someone else. You can’t even see that yourself.

Oh man. This is why I love writing these, and this is what I mean about Lion and Snake being so incomprehensible to each other. Because Lions fundamentally do not think this way, every word here is dripping with Snake.

It might be helpful to think of Lions as static. That’s how Shakespeare (who definitely seems like a Snake secondary…) writes about them, and he sees them as sort of tragic. Lions really do have a “core” persona that feels more true than all the others, and they really do exist in it as much as they possibly can. And feel good and moral about doing that.

And a mask’s point may be to deceive or to gain something, but being blunt and straightforward can be used in that way too.

You are literally thinking of “common Lion secondary presentation” as another useful mask, and it’s so Snake, and so fantastic.

I’m thinking this sounds more snake than anything else, so I’ll focus on why I thought I might be a lion too now. I guess the reason I’m on the fence is because these two are presented as “either you think the only way is through, or you’re looking for a way around it”, and I’m not comfortable saying I favor either.

That is *a* way to think about the two secondaries. But those are symptoms, not causes. The reason a Lion secondary feels that the only way out is though is because a Lion secondary must be themselves, or die.

My first thought was to say that I get more satisfaction from finding ways around a problem because it makes me feel cleverer and it’s more fun, but that’s because I’m zeroing in on certain types of situations (people giving me some intellectual challenge, debates, or video games). But there were also a lot of times where I stuck it out and kept going with pigheaded stubbornness, and got a lot more satisfaction out of that (physical challenges like obstacle courses, disagreements with my parents, winning over certain people).

Here’s where I think the confusion is. You’re a Snake secondary, and one of your masks looks very Lion. Note how you talk about using this “pigheadedness” with certain people, who you know will respond well to it.

In fact, I remember my father telling me one day “yeah, you’re never here to compromise, you just make decisions and inform us, and keep going while you wait for us to accept reality,“ and I actually can’t describe how proud and smug I was about that. Kind of insufferable, but I just get so euphoric when people see right through me and show they get me, even if it’s about the more annoying or bad parts of me.

I think that’s just a human thing. The mortifying ideal of being known is how you feel loved.

I remember a conversation I had with my ex after we broke up where she cut right through all my bullshit and discarded my whole mask to get right to my inner self and the core of certain issues, and even though I was still mad and upset, and kind of embarrassed that she could see me being vulnerable, I couldn’t help but be happy about it, because I felt known.

Yeah. <3

I don’t interact much with people outside of my inner circle, so I can’t tell if it’s entirely specific to them, but I really vibe with the “honesty is their strength” part of being a lion. That’s why my people trust me and rely on me so much, because even though they know how sneaky I can get and how fun I think tricking people is, they also know I default to telling the truth and saying what’s on my mind more often than not, because they’re my people.

I think that, as a Snake primary who mostly only interacts with Your People, you’re in a kind of unusual position. I know that the presentation of a Snake who feels safe can be blunter, can be more Lion-y. My experience with Snakes is… yeah, sometimes I know I’m being manipulated, or having my buttons pushed in a specific way. But I’m fine with it, because I’m one of their people, and I know they would never hurt me. That’s where the certainty is coming from.

Then again, I also have a “it’s not lying unless they’re entitled to the truth” attitude with basically everyone else. I just don’t think some people deserve to know me that way.

snaaaake

(lions are going to take the truth and PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE with it, and if you can’t deal that’s YOUR PROBLEM)

And “ideally”, as in, if I didn’t have anxiety and a bunch of other issues, I still don’t think I’d just be neutral all the time. Sounds boring. And inconvenient.

Snake secondaries are great.

Ahhh, should I even post this? I feel like my whole thought process before this moment of introspection was “so I really vibe with snake, but I’m also hotheaded and a bit of a bitch, so I MUST be a lion, right” lmao. I just think I’m a straight up double snake at this point.

Yep.

Oof, a long way from my original lion bird sorting back when I first discovered SHC hahaha

Yeah, I used to think I was a Badger Bird.

(For the record, I’m writing this in a word doc, and it’s almost 2k now. I haven’t checked how long these normally are, so I’m really sorry if this is too long!!! I’m like physically incapable of being concise I’m so sorry)

Sometimes I edit or re-arrange these slightly for a cleaning reading experience, but I’m having fun. I was engaged all the way though.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for doing these!! They’re super interesting and I’m sure it helps people a lot, and also it’s really cool to see how different people think. I’m a socially-challenged writer, so it’s useful to have that bit of insight into other people’s minds. Love ya <3 <3 <3