#anyway moral of the story they're all gay

[marypsue]

Man, it's cool and all if you see a metaphor for marginalisation in the monstrous, and if you want the power fantasy of 'what if you could just eat anybody who threatened you/pissed you off'. Me too.

However, as soon as you start saying 'no, these monsters are a 1:1 on Specific Marginalised Group, and you have to treat them in the fiction like they are directly representative of real human members of the marginalised group', BUT you also, in the fiction, make them hurt/kill/eat humans? And then try to shame me, your audience, for noticing or engaging with the bit where they kill people, because you made them directly representative of a real-world marginalised group? You have lost me, and also, I think, the plot.

[monstrsball]

When Iwaizumi wakes up for his morning run, he finds himself completely alone in the bed he shares with his boyfriends.

He's not as surprised as he should be to find the two of them passed out on the couch together after he's gotten dressed.

Suga is somehow nestled between the back of the couch and Oikawa's body, his head pillowed on his chest. Oikawa's right arm is wrapped around Suga's shoulders while his left hand rests on his hip. Their legs are entwined, the knitted blanket they keep on the couch wrapped between them.

The way Oikawa's head and upper shoulders are resting against the armrest of the couch makes Iwaizumi cringe, already foreseeing Oikawa complaining about his neck hurting later.

It isn't hard to guess what had happened after Iwaizumi had fallen asleep. The open laptop on their coffee table with a paused volleyball match on the screen being a pretty good indicator.

Old habits die hard.

He knows he should wake them both up, usher them back towards their bedroom to sleep in their actual bed but he can't bring himself to disturb them. Instead, somehow without waking either of them up, he extricates the blanket from their entwined legs and drapes it over the both of them properly.

He kisses them both on the head and then goes to put his running shoes on.

He can't stop himself from smiling as he leaves the apartment.

He really couldn't be happier.

[tyrannuspitch]

the infuriating thing abt sherlock (narrator: there were many) is that it definitely doesn't Intend for us to read it as gay. but reading it as gay is perfectly thematically consistent. the core of the story is that john and sherlock are contrasting characters learning from each other. john is learning to embrace the unconventional. sherlock is learning the value of emotions. obvious synthesis: john and sherlock having unconventional emotions together. hmm... maybe the ones you bring up five times an episode???

[soup-mother]

i have very complex thoughts on this but one funny realisation about being a trans woman and a lesbian and wanting games and stories about women like me being loved, is that like struggle to find good gay media makes you realise how like.... straight women want better too? like the vast majority of stuff aimed at girls and women is sorta just insulting? like i modded Harvest moon so i can be gay but trying to play the default "girls" version just sort of felt like it didn't respect the player at all. like "here's some men, be happy with it".

and related is just how like....if I'd grown up as a girl it's not like i would have been happier. because everything girls are expected to like fucking sucks basically, it's patronising and has the most insulting "morals" and it's just like wow patriarchy sucks.

like it's hard to find "gender affirming" games etc because like.... a lot of stuff aimed at girls doesn't respect girls, and it's hard getting into the mindset that I'm not some alien outside invader for like... having an issue with sexism and not wanting to settle for insultingly patronising ideas of what "girls" are and want.

and while it's not on the same level, like being a trans woman and being exposed to so much media for "boys" and "men" felt almost disgusting? like it was going wink wink "this is what guys like us are into, aren't you a guy?". like you were expected to not have an issue with it and not want anything more...kind i guess? more genuine or focused on emotions? just "here's what men want, here's what women want, they're two seperate categories"

see also: how awful h scenes in eroge are, where like that appeal to the idea of what "men" should want and masculine fantasies genuinely just makes it unpleasant and shit. like wow we really believe in this gender bullshit? it ruins fucking everything lol.

anyway gender thoughts about media and capitalism and whatnot. gender ruins everything once again, you're not a "fake" woman or whatever for not falling for patriarchal brainwashing and being perfectly happy and content living up to perfect standards of aesthetics and beauty standards and acceptable hobbies. it's all just culturally enforced bullshit, turns out people just want games and stuff that are good and respect them and are fun.

[starcurtain]

I wish everyone collectively understood aventurine’s character like you…things would be so much easier! I genuinely don’t understand how people keep getting his motivations wrong??? Could it be because some of the most popular Aven fanfics were written prior to his release? That could have contributed to some of the takes we tend to see about him…thoughts?

I struggled all day to come up with a concise way to answer this and couldn't think of one, so here, have a long-winded ramble:

I don't think early fic writers have much impact in the situation with Aventurine's character now, since most people can look at when a story was posted and go "Oh, this was before we had ____ information."

I think that Aventurine's problem is being a male character in a gacha game. Gacha game characters are designed to sell. Hoyo can sell female characters very, very easily. Give her huge tits and a visible underwear strap and you're good to go. I love all my guy friends, but I'm not gonna sugarcoat it: straight men are not the hardest audience to please. Hit a particular fetish (feet, spandex, dommy mommy), and you're gucci.

Nah, we all know why Jade's trailer is Like That.™

Male characters in gacha are harder to sell because women as consumers are a little harder to predict. Does every woman want a tall, ripped hunk? Shit, no, small cute boyish models like Aventurine are selling better now? Why?! Would a bad boy be more popular than a nice guy??? It's harder to account for women's tastes, especially because they are often (a little) less visually-oriented.

Hoyo is good at what they do though, and they've figured out that male characters sell very well when they possess at least one of two specific traits:

Endearing vulnerability/helplessness

Gay ship tease

Give a character both, like Aventurine? They might as well be printing money.

That sound you hear is Hoyo's stock prices rising.

So, from the very beginning, Hoyo is incentivized to create a character that appeals to people, a character people will want to crack their wallets open for. And they achieved this, first and foremost, by giving Aventurine traits that female players (in particular, but men too), find especially appealing: emotional and physical vulnerability.

We see Aventurine's pain. We sympathize with his grief. We identify with his struggle to make meaning of his difficult life. He's our woobie, blorbo, babygirl, whatever the hell they're calling it now.

He can't hide his suffering anymore. He's on the very edge. He's a dude in distress. He's surrounded by enemies! He misses his mama! He's been betrayed! No one understands him like you do, dear player!

The ultimate feeling evoked is: He needs to be saved.

When people talk about male power fantasies, I think they forget that women can experience them too, and "Emotionally vulnerable man that only I (or my favorite character) can fix" is actually a female power fantasy.

And from there it's really easy, right: the people who shell out cash to buy warps for their harmed-husbando feel like they've saved him; the people who are into mlm ships look for the nearest hot dude to be the savior Ratio was waiting for his time lol.

Morally and intellectually, this type of deep-down-golden-hearted, emotionally-wounded male character is very easy to digest. There is nothing to dislike about this type of character or role in the story: this character is a good guy who has just gone through so many terrible situations, whose victim status makes him endearing, and whose lack of agency means that any of the questionable or downright bad things he does are always the result of someone else forcing his hand, and never something he would have chosen himself.

His motivations are always clear and consistent: get free, heal, and live happily ever after.

Insert the Wreck-It Ralph meme: "Do people assume all your problems got solved when a big strong man showed up?" But to be fair, a big strong man did kind of solve Aventurine's problem, so--

Anyway, it's simple. It's straightforward. Morally, it's pretty cut and dry, black and white: Aventurine is our hero, which means everyone dictating the course of his miserable life is evil.

Hoyo is not remotely discouraging people from literally buying into this emotional appeal.

And trust me, I get it. I'll be the first to admit that hurt-comfort is its own entire genre in fandom because it is so appealing. People eat up Aventurine's tragic backstory like candy! The idea of watching a character go through hell at the hands of bad guys just to finally find a happy end is like the definition of everyone's favorite story.

In fact... people love Aventurine's suffering so much, they have invented whole new ways for him to suffer that aren't even in the game.

This is where we get all the headcanons that Aventurine was a sex slave, every single person he meets hates him because of his race, the Stonehearts are executioners holding knives to his throat, Jade enslaved him to the IPC with a lifelong contract, his material possessions belong to the company, the IPC is forcing him to take only the most dangerous missions where he is being required by his evil jailers to continually put his life on the line... You name it and I promise you, I can find a fanfic where Aventurine suffers from it. 😂

Bro can't even sleep in on his day off; life is so hard for this man.

Being serious: if the game is telling us that Aventurine is a victim... Why not make him the perfect victim?

Why not envision an Aventurine with no freedom, who bears no responsibility for any of the horrible situations he is in or any of the dubious things he does?

It's so natural to like that version of Aventurine, so appealing to see a totally powerless underdog use his own wits and charms to claw his way up to freedom. Or, if you're the kind who really relishes angst: It's even appealing to see Aventurine lose more. To delight in fics where he loses his wealth, where the IPC punishes him for past crimes while he's powerless to stop them... (I assure you, this is many people's cup of tea and the fanfics prove it!)

Ultimately, there's nothing wrong with liking characters who are exactly this straightforward! It's completely fine to embrace characters that are intentionally written to be morally above-board, whose primary role in the story is to generate angst by being a good person who suffers, or those characters who never show unlikable traits, bad decisions, or contradictory actions.

The problem is that that's just not who the game is telling us Aventurine is.

Hoyo may be capitalizing off people who love to envision poor Aventurine still living his life as a slave... But the game also needs to tell a complicated enough story overall to appeal to people who don't care about this specific husbando--Aventurine's role in the actual game's plot has to be interesting enough for almost everyone to appreciate it, not just Aventurine's simp squad. (Don't get mad, I'm in the simp squad with you.)

So his character doesn't stop at just being a pure-hearted victim who is still waiting to be saved.

Aventurine is not that easy to label, and I think the biggest struggle in this character's fandom right now is between people who prefer the even-more-angsty, still-a-slave Aventurine versus people who want a morally grey, self-destructive character instead.

To me personally, while I greatly understand the appeal of fanon!Aventurine and the joy of a really juicy angst fic where characters lose it all, I think that missing out on the depth that canon is suggesting would be a real loss on the fandom's part.

The character motivations that Aventurine shows in the game are complicated. They cancel each other out. They're basically self-harm! He makes almost every situation he's in worse for himself--on purpose.

He is a good person, but also a person who has done unspeakable things. He does have morals, but he's not above allowing those who don't have them to use him to their advantage.

He's both the victim and the victor. He's his own worst enemy. He's a lost little boy who's been making terrible decisions for himself since he was like eight years old, and a grown ass man who is barely managing to fake his way through an existence that destiny is not letting him quit.

This kind of character is a lot harder to embrace. He's done things that most people would find appalling--like willingly joining up with the organization that let his entire race be massacred. He's invented a whole new peacock persona to frivolously flaunt riches he doesn't even care about (Poison Dart Frog Self-Defense 101). He actively plays into racist stereotypes about his people to manipulate others through their preconceived expectations. He's made a mockery of his mother's and sister's hopes and dreams by endlessly trying to throw his own life away.

He has flaws! He bet everything he had on a ploy without doing his homework to find out if the people he was risking his life for were even still around. (Maybe he already knew, and couldn't bear to admit it, even to himself.) He's intentionally off-putting and obnoxious to everyone he meets (Poison Dart Frog Self-Defense 102). He terrifies everyone who gets close to him by (seemingly) carelessly throwing himself into the jaws of death without the slightest provocation.

He knowingly allows the IPC to exploit his power and talents for profit. Did everyone forget that his role in the Strategic Investment Department is asset liquidation?! Like, his actual day-to-day job is ruining people's lives. Canonically, Aventurine kills people when his deals go bad.

His motivations change off-screen in two lines of story text. We're told in one line that his biggest reason for joining the IPC was to make money to save the Avgin, then in the next line we find out that's impossible. And... then what? What motivations does he even have now? The whole point of his character arc from 2.0-2.1 is that he was on the edge of giving in to utter despair and nihilism because he couldn't even perceive a single reason to stay alive. He has no purpose in life before Penacony, and that didn't start with the Stonehearts at all??

People keep saying Aventurine was held in the IPC by golden handcuffs, but how do you tie down someone for whom profit is meaningless? What can you offer to a man whose only desire is to bring back something already lost forever? How do you imprison someone whose only definition of freedom is, canonically, death?

Working for the Stonehearts is obviously not healthy. But that's why Aventurine was doing it--because taking dangerous missions allowed him to put himself at risk. The job that he originally pursued hoping to save his people became a direct means to self-harm, and the IPC's only real role in that was just happily profiting off the results.

The journal entries for Aventurine's quests are there deliberately to tell the player what is on his mind, and none of it has to do with escaping from his job:

Like... Work is the least of this man's problems.

At really the risk of rambling on too long now, he's also just a massive walking contradiction:

Aventurine is among the most explicitly religious characters in the game, yet he's one of the only people in the entire game that we have ever seen actively question his people's aeon.

You might be tempted to think Aventurine's risky gambles with his life as an adult are a result of giving up after finding out about the Avgin massacre... Butttt no, Hoyo makes sure to tell us that even at knee-high in the Sigonian desert, Kakavasha was already willing to risk himself in a fight to the death against monsters because even back then he found his own life to have less value than a single memento.

He's the "chosen one" who will lead his people to prosperity... except they're all dead.

He's explicitly suicidal... andddd also a pathstrider of Preservation.

He wants to die... He doesn't want to die. He wants to make it end, yet goes to staggering lengths to continually survive. (Every plan risks his life on purpose--but every plan's win condition is also to live.) He life is the chip tossed down, but his hand is trembling beneath the table. When faced with an otherwise unsurvivable situation, Aventurine literally became a winner of the Hunger Games. He beat other innocent people to death with his own chain-bound hands just to come out alive.

He knows the IPC failed the Avgin and left them to die... and he still willingly sought out a position of power in their organization. Maybe he really is after revenge... but maybe not.

He starts his journey in the IPC with a truly noble goal in mind: to help his people using his newfound wealth and power. He's a good guy who did genuinely want to save the Avgin and repay all those who helped him. But once it became clear he was too late, once it was obvious he would have no use at all for that monetary wealth and power he risked his life to get... What did he do with it? Unlike Jade, we don't see him over here donating to orphanages. (I'm not that heartless; I'm sure he does actually do a lot of good things with his money on the side, but the point is that the game does not show us that--it shows us, over and over again, Aventurine putting on a wasteful, over-indulgent persona toward wealth. We've supposed to feel how meaningless money is to him, how meaningless everything is becoming to him.)

He outright refuses to use underhanded tactics or to cheat at gambles, which is meant to show us that's he's more morally upright than his coworkers. There's an entire exchange where he says that he'll never stoop to using manipulation the way Opal does. But... he doesn't have any issue fulfilling Opal's exact agenda. He was never remotely morally conflicted about denying the Penaconians their freedom by dragging Penacony back under IPC control.

He's willing to risk his own life, which is one thing--but he's also willing to risk other people's well-being. Topaz accuses him of constantly egging their clients on into dangerous situations; we've actively seen him shove a gun into Ratio's hands and pull the trigger with no care for how Ratio would feel about that on their very first meeting... Dragging the Astral Express crew into the entire Penacony plan in the first place was exceedingly dangerous...

To me, I just think it's vital to understand his character through the lens of these contradictions because they demonstrate the extreme polarity of Aventurine's life: from rags to riches, from powerless to empowered by multiple aeons, from willing to kill to survive to killing himself... He has quite literally lived a life of "all or nothing," and while he is the victim of many terrible situations out of his control, his arc as a character involves facing the truth of himself and the future his own actions are hurtling him toward.

Frankly, the Aventurine that canon is suggesting is a little annoying. You want to grab him by the shoulders, shake him, and say "Why are you like this?!" And he won't even have an answer for you, because he doesn't even know why he's still alive.

In the end, to me, this is so, so much more interesting. I can read an endless supply of hurt-comfort fics where Aventurine escapes the evil IPC and Ratio is there to fill the void in his life with the power of love and catcakes and be a perfectly happy clam online, but I want canon to continue to serve us this incredible mess of a man who constantly takes one step forward and two steps back.

Who is fully aware of his role as a cog in the grotesque profit-wheel of cosmic capitalism and still manages to say he never changed from the rags-wearing desert rat of the Sigonian wastes.

Who over and over again flirts with nihility but, ultimately, even if he has to wrest it from the grip of the gods themselves with bloody, chain-bound hands, chooses life.

[dapperapple]

Mike's crush on El does not necessarily contradict him being gay rather than bi

I wanna start off by clarifying that if you see Mike Wheeler as bisexual rather than gay, THAT'S 1000% VALID don't let anyone take that from you babe

this is just my perspective as a lesbian who thought she was definitely straight until the end of 10th grade (age 16, a bit older than Mike and Will are in canon)

I was rewatching a lot of scenes from the show, mainly s2 and s3, to see if I thought that Mike's feelings for El came across as weird/forced or if their relationship felt off

and honestly it left me (a Byler shipper) pretty confused at first

because YES there are a lot of odd things about his feelings and their relationship

BUT ALSO

there are a few moments that are so cute and feel so genuine I didn't know what to do with them for a sec

mainly all the scenes where they're together at the Snowball dance

because that shit seems real to me, it's cute as fuck, that is a Mileven win right there if there ever was one

and honestly, the forehead touch when she and the Byers are about to leave, and again when they reunite in s4

dude that shit is so sweet okay

(Mileven shippers are valid even if I disagree with it for the narrative)

ANYWAYS here's where my personal experience comes in to help out with my confusion over this

Mike in s1 feels the most obviously comp-het to me

because I had a big crush on a boy in kindergarten, another in gr2/3

I didn't even know what gay people were, I knew girls liked boys, so if a boy was my friendly, and nice to me instead of mean, I probably would've liked him or thought I liked him

Mike in seasons 2-4 reminds me of myself in gr7/8

the most intense crush I had on a guy was in gr7/8

I was more used to being friendly with guys at this point but this guy was becoming a close friend of mine

a cute confident guy who was nice, funny, and taking an active interest in me as a person was like wooaahh

I really do believe that Mike unintenionally idolized El, putting her up on this pedestal, with his self esteem all wrapped up in her liking him back

but I also don't think that's his fault, when you're young you don't know any better

the pressure to date starts to increase a bit, and low self esteem is kicking your ass

I did the exact same thing with the guy I liked, I had this whole other version of him in my head and I started liking him less and less the more he didn't act like that ideal

(insert Mike's behavior towards El after she assaulted Angela)

even after I figured out that the kind of person and the kind of connection I wanted in a relationship was something I was far more likely to find with a girl, I still thought I was straight, so it just made me kind of sad

like- I had resigned myself to the fact that I would struggle to find a guy that I TRULY liked

maybe it was lingering internalized homophobia, idk, I had lots of gay friends, but I just hadn't felt that way about any girl at all before, I didn't think I was capable of being attracted to girls

and then there was her

we became very close friends, she was such a kind person, so fucking funny, an incredibly skilled artist, and absolutely gorgeous

and it finally clicked

finally my mind registered the fact that I COULD be attracted to girls

I still consider her my first love

and then there was no turning back

WHICH IS WHY

I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if it takes Will coming out to Mike/the party in order for him to consider Will romantically

not because he isn't already in love with him subconsciously

but because I don't think he has registered it as a possibility for EITHER of them

moral of the story:

COMPULSIVE HETEROSEXUALITY IS REAL GUYS AND IT CAN FEEL MORE REAL THAN YOU'D EXPECT

especially since when you're young, the differences between boys and girls (both physically and how we're socialized) are much less apparent

MIKE WHEELER I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE (because me too!!)

[notitlesapply]

The other day this pic came across my dash again. (Check it out, it's one of my favorite Codywan fanarts.)

My baby spotted it too. Normally he calls Codywan "Cody and friend!" (LOL) but this time...

Toddler: *excited* It's Cody! And Obi-Wan! 🥰🥰🥰

Me: *also excited* That's right!

Toddler: They're kissing! 🥰🥰🥰

Me: That's right!

Toddler: So cute! 🥰🥰🥰 *Proceeds to sing the Cody song* Cody Cody Cody~!

Anyway the moral of this story is (I guess) that kids find happiness from fanarts too. And kids really don't care if a relationship is gay, straight, or whatever. They just think it's cute.

All you artists out there, keep doing what you're doing. You bring happiness 😊

[starryalpacasstuff]

LITBC ep 3 & 4: When they're homophobic but you love them

It took me a while to finally watch the third and fourth episodes because it's been diwali season, but having finally watched them I think I can quite confidently say that this part will probably end up as my favourite of the four. I've been having a really hard time trying to figure out how to express my feelings about this episode, because frankly I'm not even sure what those feelings are myself.

I think, surprisingly enough, this section actually hit me harder in the show than it did in the book. The book definitely had more teeth to it and felt far darker than the show, and this may seem counterintuitive, but I think it was because the show continues to be more grounded in the present that the story that it felt more visceral. As a few people have already noted, in the book the reader not only follows only Young's perspective, but there's also Young's bitter hindsight that colours his retelling of the story. Even when he acknowledges how enamoured he used to be with Hyung, it's again accompanied by his resentful commentary. In contrast, with the show we experience Go Young's emotions right along with him: love, confusion, disappointment, desperation, heartbreak, and everything in between. And as @lurkingshan notes here, this makes it all the more brutal when it all comes crashing down. Something else is that, while these episodes did not afford Go Young's mother and Young-soo the same sympathy the previous episodes did for Mi Ae and Nam Gyu, it's true that the wider lens and absence of Young's bitter monologue helped me, as the audience—how do I say this—see the two characters as their own people rather than just characters in Go Young's story. It emphasizes the greyness of morality in the characters. Young-soo is no doubt a bastard, but he's also a product of the environment he was raised in, and everything about him is a cry for help; help he will not accept. And Go Young's mother is an overbearing religious zealot who, when she realized that she couldn't 'fix' her son, resolved to pretend as though her son wasn't gay for the rest of her life; a social contract I am intimately familiar with. But she's also a single mother who braved a patriarchal society to bring up her son and she loves him in ways she will never express to him. The grey morality of the characters allows the audience to see why Go Young loved them and in turn, feel their loss along with him. I feel incomprehensibly sad when I think of the way both characters ruined their relationships with Go Young because they couldn't (wouldn't?) understand. Because he loved them, even though they were homophobic, but their relationships could never be the same after he knew.

Being constantly surrounded by homophobia is suffocating and exhausting, and it's something I know well. Even when it's not being discussed, sometimes just the knowledge of the way the people around you all hate 'people like you' can be incredibly overwhelming; it weighs you down. Go Young having to work through the complexities of loving people who were homophobic, people who hated an integral part of him felt so real to me because it's real life for me. Him going back to Young-soo over and over again even when he was rapidly becoming aware of Young-soo's beliefs. The quiet way in which both mother and son skirt around his sexuality. His brief happiness when he sees the scrapbook his mother made, and the photo that she returned to him. I'm just repeating the same words over and over now but the emotions felt so visceral; it made me feel seen. Go Young seemed so tired whenever he was around his mother and I don't think I need to say anything about how Young-soo's parting words affected him. It's something that hit way too close to home for me; that dawning realization that even more of your world stands against a core part of you than you'd thought, and that you love it anyways.

[letteredlettered]

Stupid ways CQL changed the story from MDZS:

First on most people's list is gonna be the gay, and I agree on a political and societal level that this is an egregious change I can't get on board with. I will say though that on a personal preference level, I don't think the romance really adds much; the magic of this story is not the gay and I'm just as happy with WWX/LWJ have the intense, weird, unstated relationship they have in the drama as I am with the ultimately gay relationship they have in the book.

The Yin Iron plot in the drama is so bad, you guys. So bad. This includes a) there being multiple parts of the Yin Iron, b) WRH having some of it and creating puppets with it, c) LWJ/WWX going to search for it. Did they add this so WWX looks less terrible? So it looks like all he's doing is fighting fire with fire? I hate it. There was a knife fight, and WWX invented guns. That's literally the point of him; that's why he's terrifying; he invented something that was beyond his means to control and it got out of hand and everyone wanted the gun and there was only one. The plot in the drama is just SO STUPID. I like WWX and LWJ getting to bond when they search for it and the trip to the bunny cave, but you could really have them bond and get bunnies a different way.

The most egregious thing, imo, is how the Wen remnants are first portrayed in the drama. After the Wen Clan is defeated we see constant abuse of these prisoners, often pretty much in front of everyone's face. At one point they are even paraded in front of everyone and WWX is the only one who has a problem with it. I get that WWX is the hero, but it makes everyone else look super morally reprehensible. Like, how are we supposed to get behind LWJ if he can stomach that. Actually, forget LWJ, because I actually think the scene in the rain with the umbrella establishes that LWJ is simply unwilling to defy social convention/popular opinion, and while I think it is a slight twist on LWJ's character, it's not a big of one as you might suppose, given the novel. But Lan Xichen? The character who is supposed to be the absolute paragon of kindness, goodness, and compassion? It's always sat wrong with me. Anyway, the novel basically shows that the poor treatment of the Wens is mostly hidden from view of the public, and WWX only finds out because WQ goes to him for help.

Replacing NMJ's dismembered arm with an angry sword spirit was super confusing. Why does the sword spirit attack people's arms, and why does it ONLY do that at Mo Manor? It's stupid and confusing. I assume this was censorship as well? Unwilling to show some dismembered corpses?

Speaking on NMJ, the character is pointless in the drama. I think you really needed to show the way he helped and trusted Meng Yao and how utterly betrayed by Meng Yao NMJ was to really understand his character.

Speaking of which, it is so completely ludicrous that the Wen Clan attacks the Unclean Realm before the Wen Sect Training/Tortoise of Slaughter sequence. It does say in the book that the Wen Clan and Nie Clan are kind of in constant skirmishes, but that's why the Wen Clan heavily attacks Cloud Recess first and then goes for Lotus Pier; the point is that the Unclean Realm is too well defended. That said--I still find it outrageous that in the book everyone (except WWX, perpetually clueless) seems to know about the attack on Cloud Recesses but sends their children to the Wen Clan anyway. Like I get they're all intimidated but that is too much.

WWX falling off the cliff. So silly. LWJ never would have allowed that to happen. What was JC even doing? That said, the actual death in the book is so unclear; I get that it was the spiritual rebound, but what was JC doing then? What did it look like? I found it really weird how the book just did not illustrate a few very key climactic plot points.

Weirdly, JFM. I actually like the guy better in the drama, but that's a problem. He really is a terrible father to JC, and his terribleness really helps explain why JC is like he is.

[batsplat]

speaking of smallville now that was certainly a show. how many seasons did you manage and when is it best to stop? I am currently at s2 and already I would kill every other character for lex, wyd it’s only gonna get worse 😭

lmaooo okay so I got to. six. which actually kinda kills me because I swear I poured my heart and my soul into that stupid show, it drove me insane it left me a lesser person and I BARELY GOT HALFWAY

my basic analysis of the default journey with that show that I'm going to pretend is universal is like. it hooks you with something compelling in s1 and you still have enough naive faith to give it benefit of doubt that the writers actually know what they're doing, because you just wanted to have a bit of fun but, hey, these characters are actually more interesting than you expected!! then in s2 you're starting to get doubts but you're already kinda too deep. then s3 breaks your sanity and makes you scream and at this point you just see how far this shit goes. then s4 is.... mid..... but is also in a way the last remotely palpable season? and then at some point in s5 you're just like. wow I don't even enjoy the hate watching any more. and s6 is. yeah. eventually there was one storyline that is so insanely uncomfortable that it's just. enough. enough!

[mild spoilers to follow]

if s2 drives you insane on lex grounds then!! boy!! s3!! the thing about s3 from lex's pov is that. okay it's extremely angsty and does increasingly radicalise you... I have to say I started this show in a very innocent jokey 'oh ho ho I heard they have some good superman/lex luthor queerbait in that noughties show!!' and was ready to be a lex fan like. as a bit. and y'know my readiness to adopt morally dubious characters is pretty high anyway. but the first few seasons made me go?? okay but he genuinely isn't even the villain?? like I'm not even saying this for the bit, he LITERALLY is not the bad guy in this story?? guys??? and then by the end of season 3 I had been completely radicalised to the 'Actually Lex Luthor Should Turn Evil And Kill All Of You People And I Will Cheer Him On' stance. but what really, really, really kills me is that after all that, they still manage to bungle his transition to evil. like, they ignore all the very obvious reasons for why lex would turn evil after all that, and just come up with completely new ones? that have fuck all to do with this character you've been writing up to that point?

and the worst bit. the WORST bit. is that after all that, he literally does not even have fun being evil. like, you know that season one episode where he's being mind controlled and does his gay little swagger. this scene, yeah:

first of all, again, they ended up erasing lex's canonical motivation for turning evil, which is being so queer-coded he might as well be wearing a sign with slurs around his neck while he's stuck in a small town in fucking kansas. like "you think I don't see the way your parents look at me? the way half the town looks at me?" okay, great, love how this entire arc is eventually concluded by having the show say the entire town including clark's small-minded parents were 100% right to be suspicious of him, that there was something fundamentally defect with him basically from birth and he was always going to turn out to be evil. I feel like you definitely thought through the implications of what you wrote here!

but never mind all that, my actual point is that lex is having fun here!! this is one of several episodes where they're 'foreshadowing' lex turning evil by 'having a paranormal reason to make lex evil for a few minutes' (some subtle writing, this), and he's generally having a lot of fun with it!! he's leaning into the camp of it all!! he's freed from all his nasty and completely unnecessary inhibitions like 'not killing everyone in smallville' which. good. and he's just having a great time. and then he becomes a villain and he's literally just miserable all the time!! it sucks!! like omg if you're going to butcher his writing and ruin the character then at LEAST let him have some fucking fun?? at least let him experience joy at his own depravity or whatever? like he doesn't even get to do any fun villain monologues at clark, he's literally just sad clark isn't his friend any more while clark is giving him the homophobic dog slur. and then also about twice a season something paranormal happens to clark and he physically assaults lex to the point where he like, almost kills him, and then after that everyone pretends it didn't happen and clark never apologises and continues to burst into his room demanding answers. like omg?? lex, they hate you anyway, can you please just attempt to shoot clark?? also, obviously the turn to villainy should have been in large part motivated by lex finding out clark's secret and going?? the fuck is wrong with you for not just SAYING this?? (plus finding out everything clark did to lex in season three to keep his secret like it's genuinely so fucked up #lmao) but. I hate to break bad news to you about where we're at with the whole 'does lex know clark's secret yet' situation at the point where I gave up. genuinely what is the point of all this building and perfectly interesting character work if you're NEVER gonna deliver

but quite possibly an even worse sin of the later seasons that genuinely broke my brain was the treatment of lex's father. like, not to give the game away too much here, but the show's philosophical stance on rotten apples ends up being.... well. it's interesting which characters this show feels is worthy of redemption!! also interesting when they retcon several seasons of writing for the show that already very much set up why a character would actually perfectly legitimately go insane and instead settle for 'well his father sure did know there was always something wrong with him'!! watching some season 3 and season 5 episodes back to back would leave your face scarred from the amount of whiplash in the writing. the whole thing's kinda incompetent and dumb but is also like?? actively a little bit evil when you really think about the implications of what they're writing here

anyway. it's a brave stance on superman to go 'okay but what is being a superhero really about if not a whole whole lot of gaslighting'. and I do love the clark stalking room!! but the problem is, they could've played the clark/lex dynamic in a kinda tragic 'wow clark really has been so blinded by his parents that he's gonna end up destroying his relationship to lex because he just can't be honest with him and lex really needed one person in his corner who actually trusted him but clark wasn't the right person to provide that' way. they could've played it in a sort of fun 'yeah this is kinda fucked up and weird and toxic how they simply cannot stop doing dubious shit to each other' way where you just kinda roll with how terrible the whole thing is. but they don't go for either of those!! they're so stuck with treating clark's parents as the moral centre of the universe, with their "marriage is SACRED, clark" schtick and all that (yeah, there's an episode where clark gets lectured about the importance of the bond of marriage, this is a thing that happens) that they're blatantly unaware of what story they're telling but ALSO just refuse to lean into the batshit insane elements and just have!! fun!! and it's one of those things where you really do feel like an idiot for even thinking about this stupid fucking show so!! much!! but I swear, I swear they had a dynamic that hit like crazy in season one... also some of the fic out there for them is CRAZY like it kinda does make it all worth it but still!! still!! this shit infuriates me!!

anyway, here are some bonkers plot bits I remember happening in this show for you to enjoy if you continue in this endeavour:

the lex luthor slut shaming episode

clark kent slut shaming lex luthor, which is conceptually funny anyway but becomes funnier if you just read it as clark being unable to figure out he is actually just subliminally attracted to his friend. like, okay, clark being disappointed at lex for sleeping with thirteen different women, I see you

like. multiple lesbian lana moments. she's constantly getting herself in lesbian situations. and I get this is some kinda weird fanservice-y shit from the showrunners but, sue me, I thought lesbian vampire lana was cute

which is a thing that happens

they get spike from btvs to tell clark vampires aren't real, which is the one funny thing they wrote in about a season

the native american stuff is always deeply uncomfortable but it becomes even weirder when they invent some native american prophecy *deep sigh* to explain how lex was always evil

clark steals a car from lex several episodes after committing like, one of the most obscene acts of betrayal it is possible to commit against a friend (lex is unaware of this and possibly never finds out? I think the writers maybe forgot about this.) and lex is just like. it's fine <3 I know friends sometimes have to do crazy shit for other friends!! you're my friend, right?? and clark goes... yeah. sure

I vaguely remember lex buying stuff the american football high school team at some point and showing up to the lockers to give a speech and it's just?? this is right after the friendship break up and it's basically lex talking right at clark and he's talking about the importance of fresh starts and it is so fucking funny

the one episode where lana is in paris. they had built up to this for ages as like a whole thing where lana finally frees herself from that miserable town and all the people in it (don't ask how the 'lana knowing clark's secret' situation develops. it doesn't) and then she's there for. one episode

martha kent tells clark how they can't harbour illegal immigrants at one stage?? she eventually changes her mind I think but what even was that all about

the papa kent goes into politics arc. shoot me

lex becomes like. possessed by zod. which somehow manages to make everyone involved more dull

silver kryptonite makes clark paranoid, which ends up being pretty funny because he genuinely talks the exact same way

lex thinks clark can throw him across the room because he's been hypnotised

lex starts capturing various clark super powered friends and delivers these gay villain monologues to them (like genuinely, in one of them he's got shirtless aquaman strapped to a gurney and he's like, leaning over him, teasing him with a glass of water) and they're some of the best bits of the show

clark discovers the clark stalking room, which I will say was very funny

chloe basically saying lex always sends clark these massive gifts as a way of keeping his affections which?? clearly true but I thought we were keeping that the subtext

clark gatecrashes lex's wedding high on red kryptonite

one of lex's old bullies gets killed by like, a statue falling from the top of the building they're standing next to and stabbing the guy and then some of the blood splashes on lex and he's just like ?? bleh. fantastic scene

and THEN there's several scenes with his father where lex is like 'well that sure was a nice shirt :(' and lex's father is berating him for his lack of humanity. or something

there's an episode where lex is split into good lex and evil lex and it's genuinely the only worthwhile thing the show did that season. like the writing is still kinda incoherent but, crucially. it sure is fun

the spirit of lex's mum tells him she thinks he sucks

worst show in existence. I'll never forget it

[bonefall]

Since you mentioned only cats and a few other distant animals are sentient, does this mean foxes are getting their sentience removed? Midnight can talk to foxes in the books and even convinces some foxes to leave a patrol of cats alone (the foxes are WEIRDLY violent and talk about eating the cats too lmaoo).

I assume Hollyleaf's changes mean the Fox Cub Incident is either being moved or just removed entirely, I always found that small plot point interesting in face of all those "Non-cat in clan" AUs. Seems like something that could be interesting if an "us vs them" argument was formed from it, especially if it was targeted against Midnight and calling her unholy yknow?

Yeah, that sapience is gone completely. In this universe, language is limited only to humans, cats, and some distant animals that are far outside the range of Albion (elephants, bottlenoses, some parrots, etc)

And Hollyleaf's story especially. Ngl to you, I don't like that fox idea. Or anything about Hollyleaf's Story. I think it was the worst possible route to take.

"Hollyleaf will be a mother to this evil creature to learn what it's like to love something that hates you. It is so sad to be your mom Leafpool (Squirrel-who?). Don't you feel like a shitty daughter now, Holly? Let's not ask any questions about the code btw, or how you were already filled with crushing shame from it. Or how it made you so disgusted about the idea of pregnant nuns that you flipped your shit and ruined the lives of your entire family. No, what really mattered about this situation was maternal empathy. Also here take the nearest male character we can find to ship you with, we accidentally made Cinderheart too gay when she was upset about your death lmao"

But, digressing, putting my distaste of that novella aside,

WC is profoundly xenophobic already with just the cats, and I think it was a CATASTROPHIC mistake to make it so every animal is secretly intelligent but speaks animal language. Now every conflict between cats and their predators is an ethnic dispute! You're chasing out groups of people perfectly capable of reasoning if you bridged the language barrier, but they're also ACTUAL PREDATORS.

AT BEST; It's the same uncomfortable situations that Zootopia and Lion King ends up tripping over. In Zootopia, predators are used as an allegory for oppressed groups... but predators are MADE to eat prey. A rabbit is RIGHT to be terrified of a fox, twice its size with a jaw made for catching bunnies. In Lion King, lions have divine authority to rule over their dinner/subjects, and chase out any animal based on their personal ideology... which just so happens to only be leveraged against rival predator species.

(Nerd preemption: yes i know about lion guard. I do not think diverse Lion Cops were the solution you think it is.)

Carelessly adding sapience to "natural systems" often ends up accidentally justifying bigotry. Bigotry doesn't MAKE SENSE, it's bullshit we made up and perpetuate through culture, but food webs are completely logical. The rabbit fears the fox because the fox eats rabbits. The lion hates the hyena because they compete for the same food. Gazelles don't happily submit to an overlord who is divinely capable of deciding who should live and who should die, it's just nature.

But it gets even worse-- because it's actually WORST CASE; the Erins saw that complicated moral problem and went, "don't worry! They're actually born evil! Foxes just talk about food and killing things :)"

like... my brother in cats, YOU gave them language in the first place! What was the fucking point if they were just going to be evil barbarians anyway?!? For ONE scene where Midnight could show off her Duolingo streak???

So to summarize,

It was an awful idea to start with

It was executed in the worst possible way

In a series that is already plagued with xenophobic sentiment, this somehow made it even worse and more direct

If it was completely nuked it from the story, the series would be immediately better with minimal change. Holly caring for what is essentially the clan cat-equivalent of an exotic animal like a chimp or a tiger cub would have done the same thing

There is not even a glimmer of an idea here that justifies the poison that full sapience does to the wider implications of the series.

Don't even get me started on the Badger Debaucle in TNP, which is actually in my top 5 for most vile things in WC

So if I don't explicitly say that a species in BB is capable of true language, assume it is non-sapient. Talking animals like Midnight and Rat Leader are magical individuals-- gods, curses, etc.

[franki-lew-yo]

An 'A-ha!' fandom moment, ft. The Owl House

These comments I screencapped from a user I watch elsewhere really hit like a brick in the face to me. I'm blotting out OP's name, mostly cuz this was just a shower thought they had rather than any meaningful open discussion with people, but it ended up making me realize something (also NO they're not some contrarian AntiSJW type or even hate TOH; they're a very gay+trans writer themselves. Sorry if youknowwhoyouare sees this and recognizes ur posts but you don't allow reblogs or comments and I wanted to present it on my own):

The Owl House was always hampered by being killed halfway through, writing wise and that will always be it's greatest 'sin'. However, OP's comment made me realize how much the show kind of tells you it's characters are flawed rather than actually give them arcs to suggest it, especially in season 1. When I say flawed I don't mean lacking quirks that are relatable but human: Eda is a recluse criminal; King thought he could kill people and acted like it; Luz is a genki girl; Amity starts off as a bully; Hunter...is unfortunately Hunter, ect. Those ARE flaws, character wise, but in the presence of the complete story (as complete as the show will ever be) they really aren't actually flawed, bad people in anyway.

Before I go further, two things: 1, IN ALL FAIRNESS, this is why myself and others particularly LOVE the characters and why TOH was a comfort show for me rather than a 'high-tension narrative'. The characters are a lot of what you want and hope to be like and I think that's really sweet and enjoyable, especially for horror and especially for kids.

2, NO! I DON'T think any particular bad faith cartoon reviewer opinions about coddling certain characters and punishing others IS WHAT DANA and co did at all here! Steven Universe and certain crap-reviewer's takes ON Steven Universe and how it's characters were flawed but overly forgiven by the fandom the show itself are NOT the b-all end-all of this discussion, nor are they the reason The Owl House is the way it is!

The context op was talking about was how in the upcoming hate crime The Last Airbender live-action show the showrunners are going to tone down Sokka's sexism because they think it's 'unlikable'. Even though, we all knew as children that this was an arc for him and it was WRONG, so axing it because we the audience lack nuance to recognize characters we love doing problamtic-sisms is BEYOND annoying.

Op's point is how The Owl House in particular doesn't actually expect much or want much out of it's characters. Or audience. For any infighting early on about how much Amity should 'die' because of reasons, that's really just fandom infighting when you get right down to it. There's nothing on par with the disagreement people have over, say, the Diamonds from Steven Universe and how Steven 'totally forgave them or 'should have murdered them in cold blood' about The Owl House. And like...from a fandom point of view that's good, but otherwise the show is pretty concrete the way you're supposed to see certain characters vs other shows which allow you to make up your own mind.

Avatar, Star vs the Forces of Evil (pre finale), Centaurworld and Amphibia all showcase your protagonists being genuinely, intensely flawed. Sure, maybe some neckbreather crap-pseudocritic complains that they 'made the unlikable' or whatever (i.e. me with Friendship is Magic) but overall the actual point is HOW the characters actually have grown and have ended up with the ending and morality they need. The villains, no not Zukos or 'redeemed' villains who joined the protagonist squad, VILLAIN-villains, will always be at least one serious step behind the protagonists and that's what give the protagonists the cautionary wherewithal to end them like they should and not 'be like them'. It's such a fufilling narrative, there's a reason people like it so much because it's really good when it's delivered well.

Removed from my fandom gaze; the Owl House feels like it's saying it has that ultimate messaging and character arc when it actually doesn't. Your protagonists have the endearing aspirational-part totally covered, but as far as the actual 'edge' and nuance? Well...

Eda is, at most, naughty. She really isn't any kind of morally sidetracked character. She's an outlaw because literally her society is awful to her and she's in the right to be against it. She's cursed but she's not addicted to her potions or hiding it or not really taking care of herself or her loved ones because of it. Her actual biggest flaw is that she's been 'running away' from problems rather than dealing with them, but I'd be lying if that wasn't suggested more than it's actually portrayed; or at least, dealt with fast enough in "Eda's Requiem". A bigger issue I see, even if it's what's also endearing about her, is that she REALLY isn't a flawed caregiver at all. It's portrayed as her most redeeming feature that she's otherwise a good mom and mentor, but Eda having virtually no problems in raising Luz and King just, again, makes her feel ONLY aspirational. All of the angst about 'failing' to parent and making up for it is moved all onto Camilla and sadly all of that angst for her is mostly within an already bloated episode. Eda, while an absolute mood, lacks any real kind of edge. Does she need it or not? I don't know. Discuss, kids.

Luz, like OP says, is treated like this high-energy super-optimist. She's like Star Butterfly in that her fangirlism and impulsivness are supposed to get her in trouble. But, she absolutely just isn't one when you break it down. Besides episode 2, Luz really is never that inconsiderate or lost in her fantasies ever again throughout the show. She never has anything like what Steven goes through where he hops into Larz' body and makes things worse for people by trying to fix things- which is not only good filler but it calls forward to the ultimate ending of Steven's arc for the series - Luz is just sort of adorable. Luz has blindsided by hype moments of weakness, like when she accidentally hurts Owlbert or messes with Amity's secret room, but still always level headed and down-to-earth. Her impulses are always kind of treated like...excusable? Because, again, they usually are. This is a large part about what makes her self-hatred at the end of the show about accidentally helping Belos' feel 'forced'. Even MOREso than what Hunter and Daddy Titan explain about Belos using her, we the audience never see Luz's choice to go back in time and try and get answers from Philip as being anything other than just, you know, logical. Because it is. The show acts like what Luz did was reckless and bad and that she was SOOO overtaken by her fangirlism about Philip and now just how much she has to live with the guilt and regret of helping being duped by him...it just doesn't come off that way at all. She was only so much excited about meeting him and her interest was getting home to her mother. In terms of comparing her to Philip, that's all fine and good, but again it's not 'flawed'. Not really, anyway.

Lilith absolutely has it the worst...but I kinda think people know that. She arguably does have the most morally-gray turning point in the show given what she did to her own sister. But neither the characters nor her nor the show really hold her accountable in any lasting way for cursing Eda. Lilith is the closest we get to that 'Diamond'-dilemma. She does 'make things right way too quickly and it's obvious to even her biggest fans that her character is really rushed in this area. They lampshade what Lilith did and that she was their villain in season 2 and 2B, but lampshading isn't the same thing as progress. As a result, as a Lilith fan you kind of never really forgive her for what she did. None of that's her fault, cause' you know...she doesn't exist, but it makes it frustrating that you the fan watching the show is doing the heavy-lifting in your mind in this area.What you come away from is this feeling of loving the characters for being able to work everything out. They're engaging and nuanced in theory, but you also feel robbed, w or w/o the Disney interference, of them being fully rounded or WHOLE. It kinda feels like 'and suddenly, he wasn't racist, anymore' all the time with every character ever with except Amity's mom, the Titan Trappers and Belos.

The reason everyone dunks on Star vs the Forces of Evil's finale, (besides being salty over ship wars and declaring THAT'S the reason for the drop in quality) is that 'Cleaved' could have not only worked but REALLY worked. It just needed to be better written and processed as an ending. Instead people reviled Star, the protagonist we're supposed to be rooting for, for what feels like impulsive apathy and cruelty towards everyone else by destroying magic, as opposed to it being an actually selfless sacrifice that makes her different than Toffee. Ultimatley, I do prefer The Owl House, unfinished as it is, to any of that. But yeah... I can now never unsee the characters as being what they are: fun but indulgent when they're supposedly complex. Indulgent is never bad u guys, but the problem is when you only have that to go on while insisting you have fully developed characters, there's a lot of the show telling you how to feel and how to come away from it rather than letting you, the audience, make of that yourself. As annoying as fan-wars can be over this stuff and when people are either WAAAY to forgiving of their villain blorbo or form hate-campaigns over Glub Shitto for ruining their life, it is ultimately a good thing that shows give you that chance to really see the characters that way at all.

The Owl House is, as OP calls it, "tumblr feels" not for being gay and magical and fun and wholesome and indulgent like that stuff is GREAT. It feels 'tumblr oriented' in that it all kind of feels too easy even when it's not for your protagonists. It's never actually "challenging". I guess, in as far as 'good' indulgence is concerned, it's as warm and fuzzy and a happy AU fanfic you found but not so much the Pacifist Ending of Undertale where you really do feel bad if you rectify the good ending in anyway. It's fun and it's comfort food, but not entirely lasting as you want it to be???

Amphibia, I think, was also way better than Owl House in this respect. It wasn't perfect cause nothing is but you really got a feeling for HOW flawed Marcy, Sasha, the townsfolk and even Hop Pop throughout their arcs-- which made it so SO rewarding to see them get their happy endings and come together to defeat the core and be the better people they needed to become.

The Owl House is my favorite where I think Amphibia is the better of the two.

[fizzyjacuzzi]

rant about one certain ship (especially the shippers).

obligatory mk and m27 spoiler warning.

I actually like kaishin, I shipped kaishin way before I shipped akam, and this reveal is pretty much a too-long-overdue part on aoyama because... well, 30 years of on-and-off serialization.

I get that many are mad. I, too, am so baffled that it circles back to hilarious. The relation makes sense story-wise and does not make sense profit-wise at the same time. Alas, kaishin is not the biggest detco ship in japan at the moment (kaishin got dethroned since around a decade ago, I'd say, they're still popular, but not to akam's extent in japan).

That said, a lot (but not all, love you all who don't participate in this) kaishin shippers are being so obnoxious in their anger. It's a gay ship, you know aoyama would never make it canon anyways. Just because kaishin was an "unproblematic" ship back in the day, before the cousin reveal, doesn't make it any more canon than other fan favorite ships. (Kaishin is one of the tamest, most vanilla, and mass-appealing gay ships you can find in detco, since both parties are still teenagers, technically, and both are written as cool™ protagonists who are rivals, and I stand by my case.)

Also: to the other side of the fandom, aka fans who insist on every fanwork to be canon-compliant and glorify the mediocre het romances aoyama's written into his stories, don't be homophobic while you're tapdancing on the cousin reveal. If you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself.

Anyways, ship what you want. If you don't feel comfortable with kaishin being incest, maybe step away and clear your head and find other hobbies on the side. You can stop making content about them, or you can always ignore canon, and put that disclaimer in your fanworks, especially on ao3. Fanworks are fair game and free playground, you can play sand however you want. It doesn't make your works invalid. Just tag your works properly if you do mean them to be incest. They're fictional anyways, fictional morality does not translate rigidly to real life laws and morals and principles. To add, fanworks are simply derivative of the original, nothing you make is any more canon than the fanworks others have made.

To be honest, I'm more mad at aoko's mom and toichi being alive than kaishin being cousins. Stellar parenting, the bar was on hell that it actually drowns on hellfire now. No continuity no nothing, from early MK canon to current DCMK lore.

[wavebiders]

what do you think about campaign 2? is there anything it does better than campaign 3, and vice versa is there anything campaign 3 does better than it?

Interesting question! Gonna put the answer under a readmore since it'll probably get long and also bc my feelings on cr2 aren't all that positive so superfans of that campaign have a heads up to keep scrolling

So, I'm just gonna be completely honest up front and say I never finished cr2 so my judgement is gonna be very flawed. At the time I was younger and very caught up with the toxic positivity aspect of this fandom, so I stamped down basically every issue I had until it all spilled over and I was left feeling so negative about it I had to go complete cr cold turkey until tlovm aired.

I know that's oversharing, but I just don't feel right commenting on cr2 without being upfront about how my personal feelings on it come from a weird place. I try to be more objective about it these days, but I'm afraid I'm not entirely objective.

Anyway cr2 and cr3 are really two entirely different kinds of stories. The former I consider to be most like an open-world video game, while the latter is more like an ongoing comic book. It's hard to tell which one does things better because they're not really doing the same thing at all

In terms of pacing they both struggle in opposite directions. Cr3 has had too much going on for a long time with very little breathing room while cr2 was 90% filler. We haven't had balanced pacing since cr1 so for these two it's more about what you personally prefer. For me the difference would be determined by my connection to the characters.

Which brings me to the characters. This is of course the most subjective thing of them all. I'm not going to pretend I don't prefer the Bells Hells by a mile, but there is also a reason the Mighty Nein are so popular on social media. It's the party of NPC's vs the Be Gay Do Crimes party. The latter may has well have been built in a lab for tumblr queers. Hell it's what drew me to the show in the first place.

I think cr2 was more experimental for most cast members, with them really going outside their comfort zone(Travis playing a more serious character, Liam going more morally questionable, Travis and Ashley dipping into romance) and the results really resonated with a lot of people. Personally I struggled with most of the party for a few reasons. What they were trying didn't suit me, Ashley being gone for most of the early days, a party member dying before they could really get started, etc.

With cr3, I think it's clear they took the lessons they learned from the past 2 campaigns and really played into their strenghts while still exploring new ground. The fact that the players have lived in Exandria for so long now also allows them to craft backstories more tailored to the world around them which gives them a very unique feel. I also personally just find myself resonating more with the themes they chose to explore.

Honestly I could do a whole breakdown of each character and which ones I think work best for their campaigns but this is getting long enough so I won't.

Cr2 did spend more time digging into characters backstories but for me that had the massive downside of the gap between which characters got focus being incredibly blatant. I know people like to complain about main character Imogen, but that's nothing compared to how badly cr2 sucked at balancing narrative focus amongst the party.

That's not say I'm not bothered by cr3 not taking more time to explore things specific to the pc's backstories, but with the way most of them are tied to the main plot it still works. I do think it does a much better job at balancing focus, even if Imogen obviously has the strongest plot connection.

And finally, I think cr2 is best at being a more typical found family fantasy experience(cr1 is too but a very different flavor) in that you have a bunch of assholes slowly learning how to trust each other and help each other face their demons. The bond between the Hells is just as believable and more compelling to me personally, but it is not gonna scratch the itch a lot of people are looking to scratch with an actual play show.

What cr3 excells at is deconstructing tropes, posing ethical dillemas, really making you think about the world the story takes place in and considering different point of views. This is why so many long-term fans struggle with it so much. It's also why I think, especially if all 3 campaigns get adapted, cr3 will be the most memorable one with the biggest impact.

[unavailable-fan]

Just thoughts on HPMA story

Finished probably all main stories currently in hpma (up to Year 4) Never was a big hp fan, loved first few movies as a kid and played the old games in its universe, so i do have fond memories about it, and first movies are still pretty cool production-wise, but with all the recent and not so recent author related things i get why people don't want to engage with anything hp-related Still i like the universe mostly how it was portrayed in the earlier movies and there's not much that fill that particular niche for me So i was interested in the game when i first heard about it like 3 years ago, mostly cause it's art-style is charming slightly dark but comfy Anyway, somehow i managed to participate in cbt, and i liked it a lot despite the game having lots of flaws It still is quite a mess in various aspects, but, oh, do i like its story, art style and voice acting It's still clunky, obviously, but it's also like the best worst fanfic ideas stitched together into a story with questionable tone and moral, but it's beautiful like this Instead of hp main trio we have: - a kid, who gets into dozen criminal offences a year, cause they try to help people around them, and some people use it to make the kid break laws for them, yey - an idealistic hothead girl with memory problems, who will fight you on sight, cause she loves her friends a lot and tries to protect them never thinking about the fact she's super capable of accidental mass-murder, also she's kinda awkward in some regular social situations, like her life can get any weirder than it already is - a very kind guy, who tries to act like the most cynic person ever, cause his every attempt of having a calm life fails miserably, has terrible reputation of being a criminal and one of the best potion brewers and for some reason dancers(!) in school, just let this guy rest, please They're miserable on their own, but together they're even worse, their interactions are the cutest, but the horrors they have to go through in the name of friendship are endless Among other things this story has: - Hagrid, doing his usual thing - Neville, being the best teacher in the whole school while still getting bullied for some reason - McGonagall, as a principal - a Slytherin bully/rival girl, who's actually kinda cool and pretty fun, once you get used to her attitude - an artist, a werewolf, a prophet and a play on "evil twins" trope all in one year - a pair of cute and hilarious polar opposites Gryffindor students, whose relationship is the talk of their whole friend group - an actual evil Gryffindor, can you believe this - a gay ghost guy who refuses to tell you how he died - a talking portrait, who makes you hoard stuff, in hopes it will somehow get the ghost guy to talk - a goth gardener lady, who casually reminds you of your mortality every day - a musician who makes kids jump into lakes at night, cool - a guy, who makes kids illegally raise dragons on school grounds - a group of poachers, who follow kids illegally raising dragons on school grounds And! At least two instances where physical violence is actually the answer!

I guess i just love the fact this story has pretty bold choices and doesn't treat source material too carefully, while having actually pretty enjoyable characters No idea how it will develop further, but i do want more people to know about this particular in-universe story to see more fan-takes on all of it like, go watch story letsplays of it or something, if you're interested love cool stories, hate when they belong to franchises with messy history

[fuutaprotectionsquad]

Yknow I feel like I should have a main post where I share my Milgram opinions/verdicts (thought of this bc i was writing my sister's opinion on the milgram characters). So I'll go character by character.

Will anyone read this? I don't know but its here

Haruka: I relate to him a bit (shitty mother, intrusive homicidal thoughts, neurodivergence). I def feel bad for him but hes still really guilty in my mind. I just think the whole killing for attention thing is a really dangerous mindset you can't just get out of, especially if you're being told you're not in the wrong. And it definitely seems like he doesn't actually feel bad for the girl he killed, just feels bad because people are mad at him for it. Idk. But I enjoy his dynamic with Muu a lot, even tho its toxic i just think its really interesting. But I wish him the best and he deserves a hug. His songs are mid tho (/hj i like them)

Yuno: I love her personality and I think shes so fun, but I honestly don't think about her a lot compared to the others. But I love her and specifically enjoy her dynamics with (obv mostly in fan content) Kazui, Mahiru and Fuuta. Her and Fuuta are such a good platonic ship (romantic is fun too). Innocent vote, obv. I like her songs, but Tear Drop moreso than Umbilical.

Fuuta: Oh my god I wonder what I think of him. In all seriousness he's a major hyperfixation of mine at like every given moment. I adore him and i think he deserves better and to be innocent. Like he feels so guilty for what he did and he didn't know any better, everyone around him was encouraging his behavior and praising him for it. But then it got too far and all his friends abandoned him and blamed him like. Poor fuuta :( and he's like 100% right when he says him and es are exactly the same. On another note, major fan of 0309 (romantically, but either way works), and also love his dynamic with Haruka, Yuno, Mahiru, Amane and Es. His songs are both in my top three (backdraft being #1)

Muu: Tied for my fav character(? Fuuta might beat her idk) I love her personality and vibe and everything just ❤️❤️ queen shit. And her queen bee design is gorgeous. Typically my favs are men but shes one of the first women ive hyperfixated on this much. Again, love her dynamic with Haruka, not from a like. healthy relationships could make the characters better standpoint, but from a story perspective its interesting. But yeah guilty. As for her songs, INMF is my #2 and i like After Pain

Shidou: Honestly I used to be kinda indifferent about him and just found him to be boring but then I rewatched his voice dramas and read some fics and I like him more now. I feel really bad for him bc he went through a really shitty situation which he felt he had the power to change and was stuck in a shitty moral dilemma bc of it. And in the end he did shitty things to save those he loved and it didn't even matter. He feels so guilty and doesn't deserve it. Innocent <3. Also romantic 0507 ftw (0506 is cool too). Him and Amane are silly too. As for his songs i like them, but they're not my fav

Mahiru: i like her, but im not too like. invested in her ig. But i feel bad for her :( she just wants to feel love and like. clearly she did something wrong but she didn't know she was. She never intended to hurt anyone. So innocent. Unless we find out she like. did something really fucking bad then maybe guilty. But in I Love You it implies it was a mutual toxicity so it probably wasn't something super terrible? But anyway. I love her with like all the characters cuz shes just so fun to see interact w others, but specifically with Yuno, Fuuta, Shidou, Amane and Mikoto.

Kazui: Hes so fun i love him. Like all he wants is to be honest and be himself but he feels pressured to lie and then finally he tells the truth and his wife fucking kills herself like- jeez- poor guy. Like following the gay theory, i get why she mightve done it (imagine being told the romance you built your entire life around for like 20 years was all a lie, and that your husband never actually loved you and just pretended to and every time you kissed or something he was just pretending like. that sucks poor hinako) but its so awful that he had to go thru that. But anyway innocent, kazui come out we accept you. And stan 0507. Song wise cat is easily #4 but. half is ok ig

Amane: Yknow i love amane but I also hate her and i think part of that might be the fandom? idk. I feel sorry for her bc she grew up in such a shitty situation but also i think shes beyond the point where we can uninstill those ideologies. Like shes 12, not 5. And amane says it herself that she has as much of a free will as everyone else and that her decision to kill/stay in this environment should be valued. Not that i think she should remain in this abusive situation, but she's not just some innocent kid whose being manipulated, she knows what she's doing. Hence, guilty. I don't think either vote will change her or anything so im voting with my honest opinion. As for dynamics, i love seeing her interact with all the other prisoners, but especially Shidou and Fuuta.

Mikoto: I love mikoto a lot but im so on the fence about his verdict. Ive been voting him innocent but theres still a part of me thats like. debating it. Bc he shouldn't have to be punished for John's actions, and it sucks that that's the situation hes in, but its that or more murders are left to occur. The main reason i say innocent is under the idea that John could go dormant or just stop fronting as much if we reduce mikoto's stress (like he says will happen i think). But hes so complex and fun i love mikoto. Specifically i love romantic 0309 but also his dynamic w the smoking group and mahiru. Also i love his songs.

Kotoko: I love her but also fuck her for hurting fuuta (and mahiru too but mainly fuuta). She annoys me bc she was so quick to almost murder several people based on a preliminary verdict that was made using little information. Like she knew this wasn't a concrete verdict, but attacked them anyway. I get her ideology of "kill people who evade justice to protect the weak" but only when they've actually done bad things (ie. the guy kidnapping the little girl). But when she doesn't know what they did and knows the person accusing them doesn't either???? Like bruh. But i like her character shes fun. I like seeing how she interacts with es and everyone she attacked. And songs, harrow is okay and i really like deep cover.

Whew im done.