#anti-sansa

[reneewalkersknives]

one egregious thing the game of thrones show misses out on is that the stark kids are CONSTANTLY thinking abt each other!! there isn’t like a single POV chapter from any of them where they don’t long for their siblings!! Jon wants to have a son and name him Robb!! Bran wants to be a bird so him and his siblings can live in a nest together!! Sansa prays for her siblings every night and makes the Winterfell castle and then gets upset bc there’s no one to throw snow at!! Needle IS Jon!! Arya’s list is her own prayer for her siblings, she doesn’t care that Joffrey is dead bc Robb is too!! Every single one of them believes that their big brother will come to save them!! there’s sm love and tenderness there and GOT missed out on lots of it bc it tries too hard for the grimdark angle without realising that the center of the stark’s story is their love for each other. anyways.

[sansacherie]

12yo sansa stark is more complex and better written than most of the main adult female characters in hotd season 2. i stand by what i said.

[spacerockfloater]

Honestly, the house Stark (specifically Sansa) stan to house Hightower (specifically Alicent) stan pipeline is so real. It warms my heart that most of the GOT fans who have a soft spot for the Starks sympathise with the Targtowers.

I am genuinely offended that the Team Black folks think they’re one with the Stark fans because Cregan promised Rhaenyra he’d side with her on the war (despite not thinking that she’s important enough to come to her aid immediately, marching down only when the war was over and executing those who poisoned Aegon II). It gives off the same icky energy as when someone who looks entirely different than you calls you ‘twin’: bitch, no the fuck we ain’t! Did you miss Cregan’s first ever voice line in the show? “Duty is sacrifice.” That’s a whole ass parallel to Alicent’s “Where is duty? Where is sacrifice?” that you can’t ignore.

And I can’t help but laugh each time someone says that Ned would do right by Rhaenyra. Like, no the fuck he wouldn’t! One look at her firstborns and he would have marched straight to Dragonstone! We’re just completely overriding show canon for the shake of delusion at this point.

Anyways, stan house Stark and house Baratheon for wiping the Targaryens off the face of the earth forevermore!

[grey-joys]

Tell me why tik tok thought I wanted anti Sansa propaganda on my page when I’m sitting over here like this

[alicentflorent]

Shout out to MY favourite quote from George’s blog:

“I have no idea what Ryan has planned - If indeed he had been planned anything”

[silverflameataraxia]

Sansa and Jeyne are the only people to call Arya ugly.

Meanwhile Ned, Jon, Gendry, Lady Smallwood, and the kindly man have all commented on her beauty, but this fandom ignores it in favor of two middle-school-aged mean girls who have to put Arya down to feel good about themselves.

[akarena]

[Chorus:] When I wake up, I'm afraid Somebody else might take my place When I wake up, I'm afraid Somebody else might take my place

GOT S06E10 - GOT S08E04

[mikasaerens]

House of the Dragon lacks fearlessness

The characters are all too safe and sanitized.

Meanwhile in ASOIAF/GOT we had actual female rivalries and ambitious female characters.

Cersei destroys her entire kingdom and rule just to get Margaery locked up on false charges. She tortures an innocent man, has the High Septon killed, secures her bastards on the throne not caring that it led to a war, murdered her best friend at age 11 just because her friend had a crush on Jaime etc..

Daenerys is not afraid to kill her abusive brother brutally, she secures her rule by brutally killing slave masters (as she should)

Olenna commits regicide

Sansa feeds Ramsay to the dogs and smiles. She goes behind her brother’s back to secure the Army of the Vale to claim victory for herself in the Battle of the Bastards.

And so on and so on!! Nobody regrets shit. They’re allowed to be fucking actual human beings!! Complex, flawed and brutal!

Meanwhile we have Alicent hesitating at defending her own family and getting mad at Aemond for suggesting Helaena get off her ass and fight.

We have Rhaenyra worrying about the small folk like any royal would ever give a fuck.

This show butchered its female characters. Completely and utterly.

[scarareg]

Can't believe this need to be said but, making your female characters being grateful to their rapist/for being raped is not feminist

[sansacherie]

i really don't give a fuck about sansa's classism. the same for any other character. not in the sense that i dont think its wrong, it obviously is, but if you really want to have a serious discussion about classism in asoiaf then you need to stop just talking about it as a personal flaw in characters you dislike and start seeing it as a SYSTEMATIC one which also benefits the characters you DO like. because that's what it is. it goes SOOO FAR BEYOND just sansa.

but going back to my girl sansa, i was reminded how often these ideas of how she should "unlearn classism" is basically her getting married still or whatever and you would think that this would be better gained from a total destruction of the system and not the perpetuation of the abuse of young girls through mandatory marriage and motherhood lmafo. like alicent hightower in hotd is probably a walking thesis on why this is so destructive

[ai-manre]

Wha-what now??? WHAT???! This is extremely stupid, why would Lyanna ask for that when her joining with Rhaegar has already fulfilled that pact? And why only first born daughter and not any daughter (hint Jon would always choose Arya). And why would such a stupid premise even exist.

Sorry but Jon*Sansa shippers have the absolute worst theories and takes.

[rynnthefangirl]

The evil, power hungry Queen- agrees to set aside her political aims and give all her strength and focus to defeating the White Walkers while being promised nothing in return.

The good, selfless Queen- argues against getting the resources they desperately need to even stand a chance against the White Walkers because it threatens her political aims.

[eternalvoidseeker]

-Something in Robb’s tone troubled her. She smoothed out the paper and read. Concern gave way to disbelief, then to anger, and lastly to fear.

“This is Cersei’s letter, not your sister’s,” she said when she was done. “The real message is in what Sansa does not say. All this about how kindly and gently the Lannisters are treating her… I know the sound of a threat, even whispered.

They have Sansa hostage, and they mean to keep her.”

-Lady Mormont took her hand and said, “My lady, if Cersei Lannister held two of my daughters, I would have done the same.” The Greatjon, no respecter of proprieties, lifted her off her feet and squeezed her arms with his huge hairy hands. “Your wolf pup mauled the Kingslayer once, he’ll do it again if need be.”

-Robb's fingers brushed the pommel of his sword. "If I could I'd take his ugly head off. Sansa would be a widow then, and free. There's no other way that I can see. They made her speak the vows before a septon and don a crimson cloak."

Catelyn remembered the twisted little man she had seized at the crossroads inn and carried all the way to the Eyrie. "I should have let Lysa push him out her Moon Door."

Like what the hell are they even talking about anymore. Hopefully Sansa antis wake up one day and realise that nobody but them, will think that a 13 year old willingly married into the family that killed hers. If northern lords believed that women should totally attach themselves to their captors they wouldn't be marching against the Bolton's and trying to save "Arya". None of them are talking how "Arya" probably willingly married Ramsey. They wouldn't hold any judgment for Ramsey forcefully marrying lady Hornwood.

-And do you imagine the Hornwood men have forgotten the Bastard's last marriage, and how his lady wife was left to starve, chewing her own fingers? What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping?

Remember how they think that 15 year old Lyanna willingly ran away with 23 year old Rhegar. Oh wait they don't. But no they definitely will think that 13 year old Sansa willingly married to 26 year old Tyrion+ all the bad things they believe about him.

[silverflameataraxia]

I don't care if people ship Jonsa, but stop stealing content from Jonrya and somehow making it about Sansa when it's actually about Arya. And stop lying about Jon and Sansa's importance to each other.

Jon and Sansa rarely think about one another. Sansa thinks about Jon one time while pretending to be a bastard, and that was only after someone else brought him up. And that was the first time she thought about him since AGoT.

Jon, on the other hand, hardly thinks about Sansa either. It's Arya that he misses even more than Robb, and Arya who misses Jon the most out of all her siblings.

Jon compares Ygritte to Arya, not Sansa.

Jon wants to kill Ramsay for being betrothed to Arya, not Sansa.

Jon sends Mance to find the grey girl on a dying horse which was supposed to be Arya, not Sansa.

Jon was willing to forsake his vows to the Night's Watch for Arya, not Sansa.

Jon's favorite person in the world is Arya, and Arya's favorite person is Jon.

[amaltheas-garden]

Jon and Sansa will bring the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna full circle:

We have very few details on the relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna, but what we do know is Lyanna was in an unwanted betrothal to Robert at the time she disappeared with Rhaegar. Whether she went willingly or not is up to speculation. Aside from Robert, most accounts agree that Rhaegar embodied the fairy tale prince-like character (prior to the war). Lyanna wept at the beauty of his music, and was crowned his queen of love and beauty before leaving her family forever. Her story ends alone in Dorne, dying in her bed of blood, abandoned by the man she thought would save her, begging to go home.

It's easy to see then, the parallels between Lyanna's ill-fated romance and the romantic dreams of her niece, Sansa Stark. Although the two share few similarities in personality and hobbies, both became enamored by princes who hide their darker nature, and lured them away from the safety of their homeland, before going to war with their families. However, Lyanna's story ended far from the North, dying in childbirth, whereas Sansa has escaped that fate (even more interesting considering Lyanna's book storyline is a near one to one of Sansa's in the original outline). And, if we recall the very beginning of A Game of Thrones, Robert proposes to Ned that they wed Joffrey to Sansa, joining their houses as he and Lyanna might have. There is a conscious effort on Robert's part to set the past right through the relationships of their children. So right from the jump Sansa is cast as the Lyanna stand in, though she too escapes her "Baratheon" betrothal, and is on course to run straight into Rhaegar's son (as per the girl in grey theory).

So where does Jon lie in all this? If we take the girl in grey prophecy to be about Sansa, we know the two will meet sometime in the near future. Sansa has already become disillusioned of her chivalric ideals of love and knighthood (that's not to say she doesn't believe in heroes and honorable knights, just that she's far more skeptical of surface appearance), and yet, it will be her bastard brother who will embody the traits of the hero Sansa has been searching for. Rhaegar appeared as the perfect prince, yet was the one to kill Jon's mother, and Sansa, in a similar situation, is seduced by the charm and beauty of Prince Joffrey, only to be exposed to his vicious cruelty, narrowly escaping his family (even more interesting to consider Lyanna, had she survived, would not have been Queen, as Elia was still his lawful wife, and would be considered a mistress to the King as there was no chance of her escaping Rhaegar now that she carried his child, similar to Joffrey marrying Margaery, while threatening to make Sansa his mistress). Jon on the other hand is the brooding, solemn, plain-featured bastard, sharing no traditional qualities with that of the typical hero. That is to say, he's about as far from Rhaegar as you could get. And yet, it is Jon who commits himself to defending and protecting those who cannot (Sam, the wildlings, Alys Karstark) because that's who he is. No songs are sung for the men of the Nights Watch, he doesn't gain anything by protecting those others might deem weak, unworthy, or exploitable, but he does it anyway. Jon does not look nor act the part, but the strength of his moral character is what distinguishes him as the unconventional hero of the story.

I would also draw a comparison between the legend of Azor Ahai sacrificing his wife Nissa Nissa and Rhaegar's "sacrifice" of Lyanna, to bring about the third head of the dragon he thought necessary to save the world. After reading @/stormcloudrising's phenomenal metas on Sansa's connection to Nissa Nissa/the Amethyst Empress, I believe the idea of sacrifice will appear again in relation to Jon's character arc. Many in the fandom have speculated that AA/NN and the Bloodstone Emperor/Amethyst Empress are one and the same, the former featuring the sacrifice of a wife, the latter a usurpation of a sister. Sansa already occupies the (false) position as Jon's sister, while Jon has refused to usurp her rights as heir to Winterfell. However, with Jon's parentage reveal, the opportunity of a Jon/Sansa romance becomes possible, potentially elevating her to the status of love interest. And, if we're going with the NN/AE are the same theory, it would mean she occupied the role of both sister and wife. As for Rhaegar, his prophecy obsession is what led to him endangering Lyanna, placing his need for the third dragon above her own safety, ultimately killing her. Jon spends a good chunk of ADwD with Stannis, a claimant to the title of AA/the Prince that was Promised, who similarly struggles with the question of sacrificing one life to save the world, "What is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?” (ASoS) To which we already know the answer, Everything. Stannis, like Rhaegar, will fail the moment he sacrifices Shireen to fulfill his "greater purpose". Daenerys is also a claimant to the title, and we will likely see a contrast between how she and Jon approach being Rhaegar's heirs and inheritors of the prophecy. Stannis will lose everything after Shireen's death, the same as Rhaegar when he left Lyanna to die, condemning House Targaryen to death in the ensuing war. Jon will likely face a similar decision of sacrifice upon discovering he could be the subject of prophecy that consumed his father and once honorable king. And just as he refused to usurp Sansa's claim, he will reject the sacrifice of a loved one (lover perhaps?) as prerequisite to fulfilling his role as AA/TPtwP.

Jon's character always comes back to his identity as a Stark. Discovering his true parentage will undoubtedly be a source of inner conflict, culminating in his decision between Stark and Targaryen (spoiler: its Stark). It's a classic case of sins of the father, and how Jon asserts himself as an individual outside of his father's tainted legacy. Jon being the hero to Sansa and helping her return home would effectively resolve the generational conflict caused by Rhaegar's "kidnapping" of Lyanna away from the North. Rhaegar caused immense amounts of pain to the Stark family through his one act of selfish cruelty, which Jon will rectify through one of loyalty and selflessness. And narratively, Lyanna's son being the one to save her niece and return her to Winterfell would just be so chef's kiss.

[marysblo0d]

How some of you sound