#anti Captain America

[dolche-tejada]

So I wanted to point out the usual nonsenses coming from Tony Stark antis and luckily enough, one of them made a post quoting pretty much most of their popular "arguments" (if I can refer to them as such), so let's take a look at this user’s main points and see how solid they are.

"Let's talk about the horrible shit Tony has done in the MCU"

Please keep in mind the "horrible shit" term all along during your reading.

"MCU Tony has mortared a city full of civilians"

Okay so first point and it literally never happened. USA's government did that to Wanda and Pietro's town, not Tony so I hope it wasn't too painful to pull this nonsense out of your ass.

"Been a complete dick to all of his teammates"

Oh no... he was mean to Steve and his coworkers during their first movie ? What a complete tragedy, what a heartless monster. Please stop the violins, otherwise I might weep.

"Made multiple misogynistic comments about women mainly Natasha (looking at you prima nocta scene)"

Okay so you gave only one example to back this up and it's when he was obviously joking with his friends. Even if that joke may be in very bad taste, that doesn't make him a horrible person like you tried to demonstrate, you're just nitpicking.

"Manipulated a 16 year old into getting into a war with his former teammates"

A) "a war" please don't make me laugh. For most of the only fight Peter take part in, both sides were joking with the other while fighting and weren't even fighting seriously, they were just trying to incapacitate each other. Things only get messy after Tony ordered Peter to step back.

B) Tony didn't manipulate shit. He hid no vital informations to Peter and while bringing a 16 year old to an arrest was indeed a stupid decision, he knew Steve wouldn't harm him and that Peter was strong, competent and equipped enough to deal with him.

"Thought he was completely justified for trying to kill Bucky for something Bucky did unwillingly cuz he was fucking brainwashed"

Why the fuck are you lying ? At no point Tony justified himself for this. He tried during the whole Civil War plot to ease things with Steve and this even after his best friend got disabled for life because Steve escalated the situation at the airport, only to learn then that his friend lied to him all along about his parents' death.

At this point Tony just didn't care anymore and while he was obviously wrong for trying to kill Bucky, it's not like he had no understandable reasons to go after him. Brainwashed or not, most people would try to obliterate their parents' murderer if he stood right in front of them.

"Repeatedly mocked Bruce Banner who was filled with self loathing and even tried to kill himself because of how much he hated being The Hulk"

Firstly he joked with him, not about him. Secondly, Tony was the only one who respected Bruce from the start and never treated him like some ticking bomb ready to explode.

"Created most of the villains in the MCU (Mysterio and Co., Vulture, Aldrich Killian, The Maximoff Twins, Justin Hammer, The Flag-Smashers etc)"

Okay, where do I even begin on that.

Quentin Beck was a narcissistic asshole who got mad because his boss called his invention "B.A.R.F", that and Tony tossing it aside because this tech was way too expansive for its very limited applications. So not Tony's fault if Beck had an ego more fragile than a soap bubble.

Hammer tried to destroy Tony's image and Stark Industries first, so Tony defended himself by revealing he crippled a man by trying to replicate his tech. Hammer fucked around and found out, not Tony's fault if he's an hypocritical idiot.

Concerning the Flag Smashers, the reason they became terrorists wasn't caused by Tony bringing back half of the universe, it was due to the Global Repatriation Council's disastrous resources management.

About Toomes, Tony had no prior knowledge of the contract he signed with NY and even if he did, leaving dangerous alien tech in the hands of random people is quite a moronic idea, as evidenced by what they did with this tech for years. Not Tony's fault if Toomes is delusional and sucks at his job.

Aldrich Killian ? Be fucking real, he became a super-villain just because Tony ignored him, an archetypal greasy-haired nerd who literally drools as he talks, for a pretty chick on New Year's Eve.

Like obviously, when a serial killer stab someone to death, the most logical reaction is to blame those who assemble knives at the factory rather than the murderer himself, makes perfect sense to me.

The Maximoff Twins, my god this argument again... Yeah let's blame the guy who designed and sold weapons to his government rather than, oh I don't know, the fucking guys who used them against civilians ??

"Which also means he's also had some hand in the deaths caused by all these characters"

Literally none of the characters you quoted became super-villains because of him.

"Created Ultron"

He intended to create a security system against other alien invasions and it resulted in a genocidal robot, which only happened because Wanda mindraped him some hours before. Tony is responsible for Ultron's creation, Wanda for what he became.

And I don't want to see anybody whining in my mentions that he already planned to design Ultron prior to her mindraping him, not when she had this fucking grin after seeing Tony taking the Mind Stone with him.

Let alone when she threw this line, later in the movie : I saw Stark’s fear. I knew it would control him, make him self destruct.

She knew letting him take the Stone would cause something awful that might also kill him and she used her powers to make him even more paranoid. She's responsible for Ultron going from "A suit of armor around the world" to "Genocidal Murder Bot", not Tony.

"Thought it was a good idea to have a newly created AI be exposed to The Mind Stone which caused Ultron to kill JARVIS and go rogue

A) Which again wouldn't have happened if Wanda hadn't mindraped him the same day.

B) He didn't consciously exposed Ultron to it, the Mind Stone corrupted the AI on its own, something Tony and Bruce had no way to predict.

C) Still not his fault anyway. Ultron is sentient, he takes his own decisions. Tony being his "father" doesn't change anything to this state of fact.

"Profited off of war by making weapons of mass destruction and selling them"

Something he's spent over a decade to make amend for, notably by closing his weapons division and dedicating his life and resources to helping people and saving the world.

"Bought illegally obtained vibranium stolen directly from Wakanda by Klaue"

False too. All we know is that they met each other at the time Tony was still designing weapons ; and that Klaue told him he was looking for something new. At no point was it implied Tony illegally bought vibranium from him.

"Technically responsible for more vibranium being stolen from Wakanda by Klaue due to Ultron"

This vibranium was already stolen by Klaue when Ultron met him.

"Being responsible for everyone who died in Sokovia's death because he made Ultron"

So following your reasoning, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer's parents are responsible for every murder their son committed from his own free-will ? Did I get that right ?

"Being unwilling to help Steve and the others fix the Blip cuz muh daughter"

My god, how dare he... being against playing with time and rather trying to accept what happened while taking care of his family.

And this when we know screwing up with time can cause world-ending events.

Truly a proof of how horrible of a human being he is, indeed.

Btw I like how you ignored that Tony changed his mind and helped them afterwards.

"Supported The Sokovia Accords which need I remind you all Tony is technically responsible for The Accords being made because A. he's the one who killed Wanda's parents (blah blah blah, a lot of false attributions later...) causing her to kill Crossbones and a building full of people"

Still isn't him who dropped those mortar shells on her house. Just like it's not him who pushed Crossbones to go suicide-bombers, wrote the Sokovia Accords and incited 119 countries to sign them.

"and B. he is literally responsible for what happened to Sokovia BECAUSE HE MADE ULTRON"

Already answered to this shit, let's continue.

"Referring to Wanda as "a weapon of mass destruction" in Civil War"

Lmao because she isn't ? No one forced Wanda to join a terrorist organization, pal. Just like no one pushed her to act as a weapon of mass destruction, by using her powers to send Hulk on a rampage across Johannesburg or by enslaving Westview.

"meanwhile HE is the REASON SHE has her powers in the first place"

Sure, Tony whispered in her ear every night to go serve as a guinea pig for Nazis in order to get her revenge on him. I forgot this part of Wanda's backstory, silly me.

"Falsely imprisoning the heroes that didn't sign The Accords because he's a cunt"

Tony don't have any power or authority to imprison people, and the heroes he stopped got incarcerated because they indeed broke the law, you jackass.

"Being technically responsible for all the deaths caused by Wanda in Wandavision and DSATMOM because if he didn't kill her parents with his mortar..."

I don't think you know what "technically" means.

"then her and Pietro wouldn't have went to Hydra thus not getting their powers from The Mind Stone"

You know what would have actually prevented all the deaths Wanda caused ? Her not willingly joining Nazis to get her powers and going on a murder spree.

"And you are probably thinking "But he sacrificed himself at the end of Endgame !""

To save the whole universe indeed. That and quite a few other things, such as :

Outright refusing to help terrorists and getting tortured as a result.

Risking his life to save Yinsen.

Saving Afghans villagers from terrorists.

Saving Pepper and SHIELD's agents from Obadiah Stane.

Actively saving people on a daily basis, and this for a decade.

Developing a shit ton of armors to protect people more efficiently.

Saving New York and the world overall from Chitauris.

Stopping Killian from taking over the USA.

Curing Pepper from the Extremis treatment.

Designing Veronica with Bruce.

Fighting Hulk to protect Johannesburg.

Saving the world once again, alongside the Avengers.

Awarding promising students with the funds to develop their own projects and inventions.

Granting his tech to Peter and designing for him two suits that allowed him to save many lives.

Saving Stephen's life from Ebony Maw.

Helping the Avengers to travel in other timelines.

"Let me ask you this : If Strange had hold Tony that the only way to defeat Thanos is if Tony sacrificed himself would Tony do it"

It's literally what happened during Endgame, you fucking bozo. What do you think was the meaning of this scene ?

And it's not like it was something new, he was always ready to die for others' sake, right from the start, did you even watched the first Avengers movie ?

No wait, even better : Have you at least watched the beginning of his first solo movie ?

I wasn't expecting anything from Tony antis but sucking that hard at watching a movie is quite impressive ngl.

"Bottom line is MCU Wanda sucks and Tony Stark sucks"

Yeah no shit, that's pretty easy to say when you're making up lies to support your hate boner.

So in conclusion, this dude has no idea of what he's talking about and neither does Tony antis in general for using these bs as arguments.

[freeasfishes]

Steve Rogers "I don't like bullies so I shall join the US military about it" the world's stupidest idiot.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

I don't think you've been asked- but what's your opinion on the accords?

I briefly touched on the accords here, in my post where I hate on Steve.

Now, I have to give the caveat of "in the MCU films" as that's what I'm familiar with and if I don't someone will invariably come to my comments and say, "But Muffin, you didn't read the comics, in the comics this made sense, in the comics this is different".

So, we're talking about the films.

In the films, they were a completely reasonable and legitimate international law that Steve and friends look... not quite bad but short sighted for fighting against it so hard.

Given what we're told in the film, this is an international agreement, agreed upon by pretty much every country, which is just "superhumans who play vigilante should be held accountable to international laws and should not be directing themselves". That's it.

The laws in and of themselves are not only not an inherently bad idea but probably a good one. The reason it seems they may not be justified is that, thus far (sans Tony in Age of Ultron when he made an evil AI and nearly destroyed a country), is that the Avengers as we've seen them in the film have reacted reasonably to threats and were unquestionably the good guys. They never threw their weight around, abused their powers, didn't seem to be picking and choosing of who they would save and who they wouldn't, and worked fairly cohesively as a relatively independent organization. This makes it seem more like a "Tony" problem in that he's the one who fucked up big time and should have had oversight.

The problem is, that's right, it is a Tony problem, Tony was an Avenger who had no oversight and was deciding where and how he should use his talents with no one to say "no", and there could be another Tony in the future and maybe someone should be able to check in and say when the Avengers should and should not be going.

Now, if it was just MCUsa, e.g. Ross who we know is a baddie, that'd be quite bad as the avengers can be sent out as tools of war between whatever countries except that we're told it's explicitly an international agreement and that it's internationally decided on when and where the Avengers should be deployed. In terms of politics, that's about as good as you're going to get, and a lot more justified than "six/seven people with mostly the same background decide when and where they should go without necessarily having a full understanding of the situation/place they're being deployed into".

Oversight is not a bad thing.

And the film completely and utterly fails to bring up any legitimate and convincing arguments against it. Arguments seem to boil down to: we as an audience know from general Marvel things and The Hulk that Ross is very bad and him being for the accords is bad, Tony was the bad guy in the last film and is clearly letting his fear get to him here and is afraid of making his own decisions, Bucky, and we know the Avengers are good and always will be.

It's just.. yeah, what else is there to say?

[alvie-pines]

some people defend captain america with "he fought nazis in ww2" and im like. good for him, but i need more than that. i mean thats a good thing to do, but also the bare fucking minimum.

and it also doesnt contradict his role as American Propaganda Personified either, because guess what the US did? fought nazis! it doesnt make the US not a horrible imperialistic death machine... because again: bare fucking minimum. you cant just punch a nazi (pure evil & most people agree on that) and call it a day, youre a good person (or country) now and forever! not how that works.

i love some good ol' nazi-punching when its accompanied by other acts of goodness. this isnt a diss on nazi-punching. this is a diss on thinking it absolves you of doing wrong... or absolves your favorite superhero of representing an imperialist death machine.

ending this with a final note: its okay to like cap. i dont really care what you, or my anyone else, likes. i just dont like him myself, and i wont like him no matter how many nazis he punches. here, i am explaining why. i think he represents something awful, and that unequivocally ruins the experience for me, but it may not ruin someone else's media experience, and thats not really a moral judgement. everyone has different limits in fiction. i love gloriously violent gore and cannibalism, but graphic child abuse shuts me down. so does too much usamerican propaganda. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[txtssera]

was thinking about scarlet witch and she has parallels between her and nico… like the scene in age of ultron where pietro dies and she feels his death and she lets out a scream of agony and collapses and her powers release? you’re trying to tell nico didn’t do the same thing when bianca died? or again when jason died?

i know ppl like to make comparisons between jasico and steve and bucky which i get (but also hate bc i can’t stand steve) but i think we could stand to get more nico as scarlet witch and jason as vision

[illicthearts]

I watched Infinity War today, sometimes I question why I liked it so much because half the things they do pisses me off. Especially Quill he pisses me off so much.

And STEVE, don’t even get me started on him. “We don’t trade lives,” JUST A MOVIE A GO YOU WERE PREACHING THAT WE NEED ACCEPT THAT IN YOUR LINE OF WORK YOU CAN’T SAVE EVERYONE. And than he goes ahead sacrifices a bunch of people (POCs) to save a ROBOT! Who mind you could be made again.

But I guess that only applies to faceless people. Not to the people you know personally and especially not if Wanda loves that person. I hate his hypocritical ass so much.

[ladydeath-vanserra]

not ONLY is there an Israeli superhero in a CAPTAIN AMERICA movie, the movie was GOING to be called 'Captain America: NEW WORLD ORDER'

not ONLY that, but the Israeli character, who is an Israeli soldier in the Israeli secret Service named SABRA, which also happens to be the name of a massacre of Palestinians and Lebanese Shias that happened in 1982 by the Lebanese forces with the Israeli soldiers surrounding the site and not moving to stop the atrocity from happening. (this also happens to be the modern term of a Jewish person born in Israel)

and they're pulling this with a BLACK Captain America??????

Finding this out literally gave me a migrane Jesus fucking Christ

[whateverthought]

Creator's Pets That Get On My Last Nerve

Aka "Poor Baby, Never Did Anything Wrong, All Eyes on Them, Always Right"

Felicity Smoak from Arrow

Steve Rogers from the MCU

Clarke Griffin from The 100

Caitlin Snow from The Flash

Bakugou Katsuki from My Hero Academia

Hayley Marshall from The Originals

[musclesandhammering]

We all agree that Sabra is problematic, but nobody wants to acknowledge that Captain America is problematic for the exact same reasons.

[themintiris]

”team iron man was completely in the right” “no team cap was” they are both right and both wrong. that is the WHOLE POINT of the movie.

[wanderingmind867]

Whoever came up with the concept of the super soldier serum, I would like to punch you in the face. Did they not realize how pro-eugenics Captain America seems because of that!? They made a man to fight Nazis, but his backstory is like a Nazi wet dream! How you screw up that badly!?

[taylorkellyreporting]

i’m looking for an anti team cap fic on ao3 that i read once where either the entire team or just clint break into tony’s living quarters and finds laura and her kids there with tony watching a movie in the living room and it shocks clint cause he didn’t even know laura left the farm. i’m pretty sure peter and maybe harley are there. i vaguely remember laura’s kids either call tony dad or uncle. i’m not sure if a physical fight breaks out but i know there’s shouting. does it sound familiar to anyone? it might be part of a series.

[padfootprongslet]

nahhhhhh the cinematography of john walker killing a man using the shield to the chest is beautiful BECAUSE HE IS NOT THE FIRST CAPTAIN AMERICA TO DO A SIMILAR MOVE AND IF IT WAS SEEN THE PUBLIC WOULD HAVE REACTED THE SAME WAY.

[melodystark]

If Capitan America Civil War end like this

Red Skull,Madame Hydra or wherever Hydra - well done miss maximoff you complet the mision destroy the avengers

Wendy - thanks i was easy

And me like so suportive of Evil,Scarlet Witch

[wanderingmind867]

I know this is about the MCU, but let's be honest: This is a problem in the comics too. Dressing as a country universally associated with negative things is literal madness. Captain America should have died with Watergate. They even gave Captain America a new costume and identity as Nomad for 4-5 issues around Watergate, but they blew it! We could have gotten a cool superhero who stands for everybody, but no! We got saddled with Mr. Nationalism over here.

steve rogers claiming for 2 hours that the sokovia accords would "force political agendas" on people like he hasn't walked around dressed as the embodiment of USA for 4 full movies will never not be funny to me

[soonamisapphire]

ricochet into the dark - hotaruyy - The Avengers (Marvel Movies) [Archive of Our Own]

Really interesting story

I recommend left me wanting more chapters