#andre and audrey deserve worse

[muggle-born-princess]

Dear Chloé Haters,

Now that "Revolution" has aired, I hope you're proud of yourselves.

I hope you're proud that she's gonna live with her abusive mother, I hope you're proud that she lost everything; including the two friends (Adrien and Sabrina) that she actually cared for and were willing to help her, I hope you're proud that no one, not even her own father or sister, loves her. I especially hope you're proud that you got your wish: That she's worse that Gabriel, Lila, Nathalie, and Félix, and that she's an irredeemable monster because your precious Marinette and your God Thomas Astruc said so; just so you can have your stupid ass Love Square ship (Which I'm starting to despise more and more thanks to how poorly written this show is and because of you guys.) and that she might be (Key word: might) written out for good because Thomas himself hates her for the most pathetic fucking reason ever.

If you can honestly look at this and go "Woohoo yes! It's about time that bitch got karma! She had it coming all these years!"

A. You don't know a damn thing about karma and how it works.

B. You also don't know what it's like to be abused and how abuse can affect someone, especially someone as young as Chloe was when her mom left her.

And C. You especially don't know what it's like to be change for the better, only to fail repeatedly because old habits are hard to change for the better.

Oh, and don't you dare fucking give me that "Well Mylène said her mom left her and she turned out fine" or "Well Gabriel was a shitty person as a teenager, and he only got worse" crap. I don't want to hear a goddamn thing about those shitty ass arguments. That just proves that you're biased and Thomas doesn't know a fuck ton about abused victims and how they cope differently.

I don't want to deal with you. Not now. Not ever.

Get off my page if you hate Chloe. Block me for all I care. Hell, call me a bully or racist apologist or hell, even a sociopath apologist for all I care.

I. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

You got your wish, and now my wish is to not associate with any of you people.

Bye.

[muggle-born-princess]

I don’t give a fuck if this girl’s a bully, a racist, a sociopath, whatever. Forcing your kid with their abuser; whether they be a parent, sibling, aunt, uncle, EVEN A FUCKING SIGNIFICANT OTHER is NOT OKAY! 

Hello

Latest episodes were ok

I know how s5 is gonna end

But there were stuff cut from the latest episodes like the apology everyone did to marinette only not to be there

And there is whole original scrip where Andre divorce Audrey and is gonna adopt Zoe

But gave away Chloe to a mentally abusive mother after saying Audrey is not fit to be mother especially to zoe

I’m a divorce child and let they’ll you is mess up and badly written

What kind of parent just gave up their child to a abusive person? Chloe don’t deserve this and to be left by her father while taking her sister with him is actually mess up

I’m sorry but is also mess up that fans think is the greatest writing ever and Chloe deserves that , they are just celebrating that and is so mess up

Even though is a fictional character that is a child being again be left behind by a parent and this time is one that actually cares

First her mother left her and suddenly comes back and with another child

And now her father is leaving her and taking that other child with him

The creator just want people to hate Chloe and write her off

Chloe deserves better and better writing

I agreed bullying is not ok and don’t like what she done to marinette but Chloe was her way to redemption and the reason the way she is is because of her mother and she tries so hard to get her approval and love from her

[princess-of-the-corner]

"not abuse" despite the fact that it's acknowledged that Audrey's actions towards Zoe and Andre are abusive which is even worse

I just commented on the Schrödinger thing.

How it's abuse when it's Zoé, and now when it's André too.

But her actions toward Chloé are either 'totally normal idk what you're talking about it's not abusive to delibritly call your child the wrong name to tell them how little they matter to you' or 'oh well actually Chloé was mean so she deserves to be mistreated it's not abuse it's the consequences of her selfish evil actions of *checks notes* trying to gain her mother's love by repeating the way her mother treats her onto everyone else!".

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

One thing that really does bother me a lot about season 4&5 Chloe is that…she doesn’t even show genuine love or interest in anything anymore. She’s just always having this “better than everyone” attitude about everything. Yes she did this in other seasons, but it just feels completely different now. It doesn’t even feel enjoyable to watch anymore, she’s not even that character that “you love to hate” anymore, she doesn’t even feel like Chloe anymore. She’s not even a bully with redeemable qualities anymore, she’s just this one-dimensional evil shell, just so people won’t feel sorry for her. It’s OOC, it’s stupid, it’s just…ugh.

And if anyone’s gonna to dare show up and say:

“WELL THATS THE POINT DUH!”

No…it’s not.

Because it’s the way you write it. Don’t you see? It doesn’t even FEEL like she had this “backwards development” Thomas claims he was giving her, she just feels ridiculously unrealistically evil now. That’s dumb, even for Miraculous. It’s dumb because…even bad and evil people have a humane side, like Gabriel, Audrey, Andre etc., but apparently Chloe's still worse than all of them combined for some reason.

As mean as she was, I don't imagine seasons 2 and 3 Chloe doing this or behaving like this. Heck, I don't even imagine season 1 Chloe doing this. Thomas has turned one of his most complex characters from the show into a blander version of true her self, all because so people would grow to hate her, just like he does…for some strange and immature reason. Now I’ve pretty much accept that Chloe is a lost cause, but to no real through of her own. In show, the adults in her life failed her, and in real life, her creator failed her. She’s never going to redeem, have proper development or a happy ending as long as that guy is in charge.

I’m not saying that Chloe was never wrong nor didn’t deserve any punishment, but I don’t blame nor hate her more than them. I never will.

[wooawi]

Andre disowning Chloe is such a disgusting cop-out, oh my God. And not even for the writers, no, I’ve talked enough about how much the writing of season 5 is really badly thought out. It’s a disgusting cop-out for Andre.

We’ve seen that he apparently had dreams to be a film director and to make the world a better place, but had to give it up to “fit in” with his family. He became the mayor literally just to impress Audrey and hates his current life because of her and his “selfish, heartless daughter”. So now he wants out. And he gets out by... giving it all up.

And, yes, if there are toxic people in your life, people who make you give up your dreams to pursue them and further destroy your life by disrespecting you and treating you like shit, then drop them. But this isn’t just his wife that he could divorce, no. This is his daughter we are talking about.

Chloe, no matter how terrible she is, is still a product of his own shit parenting. If he didn’t want a heartless and selfish daughter, maybe he should have actually put effort into raising her rather than just throwing money at her every time she cried. The fact of the matter is that she’s like every other child on the planet: she didn’t ask to be brought into the world. It was his own decision to have a child, but when it got too hard, he just gets to give up??

And we’re supposed to side with him as the victim?

My brother in Christ, it is your fault your daughter’s a fucking asshole. It is your mess to fix and your problem to deal with. You can’t just say “well, I tried” and drop her like that. What happened to parental responsibility? To taking care of your goddamn kids and helping them through their childhood? Andre didn’t try for a second to help his daughter become a better person and just put his own shortcomings on her “nature”.

And what’s worse, is that he gets “awarded” custody of Zoe. He gets rewarded for being a shit parent by getting another kid to fuck up with. I feel terrible for Zoe. She’s still a kid and deserves at least one loving parent, not some idiot who failed at both jobs he was given throughout his adulthood: being a mayor and a father. It isn’t fair to Chloe, and it especially is not fair to Zoe.

Why are they being punished because Andre Bourgeois can’t take responsibility for a goddamn thing in his life?

[jennrypan]

So..MLB basically says.

Gabriel, Tomoe, Jagged Stone, Audrey and Andre are ALLLLL worthy of redemption and theyre actually NOT that bad despite one being an actual terrorist and the others being either overbearing to an abusive degree, neglectful and childish or verbally abuse.

BUT NO ITS FINE CUZ YOU KNOW WHOS THE WORST???

LILA AND CHLOE CUS THEY WERE MEAN TO THE MC. THESE 14 YEAR OLD LITTLE ASSHOLES ARE FAR WORSE THAN THE LITERAL ADULT DIRT BAGS SURROUNDING THEM.

Obviously Chloe and Lila are assholes and deserve repercussions for being bullies and treating others like shit, anyone with a brain can see that but to be so heinous and down right stupid to claim these kids are more fucked up than the actual adults who are fully aware of whats going on?? Whos been alive longer?? Seriously?? Make that make sense.

Why does Gabriel get to redeem himself after spending months terrorizing Paris, killing people, neglecting his son and even physically abusing him when he deems it fit?? Why does he get a pass?? Cuz his baby mom got sick doin shit she knows she shouldnt be doing?? Really??

Why does Audrey and Andre get to not see anyone call them out for how they made Chloe?? Why does Andre get to disown Chloe and start over with her nicer copy?? After making her into the spoiled brat she is cuz HE GAVE HER EVERYTHING SHE WANTED, HE COULDVE PUT HIS FOOT DOWN BUT HE DIDNT?? HES A GROWN MAN, and suddenly hes done?? Cuz he wanted to be some dumbass director?? Seriously?? Sir you made your daughter that way and allowed your shitty wife to talk down to her and destroy her self worth, you allowed your daughter to keep demanding things from people and never ONCE tried to speak up, and suddenly you wanna start over with a kid that isnt even yours??

Jagged Stone literally abandons his whole ass kids cuz "kids arent cool" and he KNEW WHERE THEY WERE, KNEW WHO THEY WERE, and likely wouldve NEVER told them unless Luka in his akumatized form actually found him cuz hes a fucking man child going through a midlife crisis

(also lol @ all the salt fics saying hed be there for Marinette more than her own parents. Mf wasnt even there for his own kids, bffr)

I cant really say much on Tomoe cuz we dont really get much on her besides little hints but giving how Kagami is and how she mentions she wasnt even allowed to draw shows that Tomoe is exactly like Gabriel and what do ya know..Kagamis also a senti monster. Its fucked up!

Why do these grown ass adults get passes but Lila and Chloe dont? Chloes apparently a little soulless monster and Lila?? Is a fucking sociopath pulling an Orphan with all these new identities?? What the fuck??

Also lets not forget, Felix tried to make Adrien lose his friends, mocked Adrien for being an abused kid, found out Adriens mother is in the basement and REFUSES TO TELL HIM?? He gave Gabriel all of the miraculous, and instead of helping his COUSIN, he helps this random girl hes now suddenly obsessed with?? What?? But no yeah FELIX deserves to be forgiven despite all of his actions also being just as selfish and terrible as Chloe and Lila but go the fuck off ig, but EVEN STILL HES NOT WORSE THAN GABRIEL

[plumsaffron]

My assumptions were correct, the salters just couldn’t let go of the past after Lila’s debut and the infamous season 3 episode. No wonder I still see these bozos still plague here, YouTube and whatever social media site exists. They are the reason why I hardly touch fanfic crossovers since I fear seeing them sink to the low levels of that ship, bashing and all.

They might as well make hatedoms of fictional characters from other series/franchise look sane and reasonable.

I may not be a sports fan but Major League Baseball should have the MLB acronyms not the stupid show. The former earned and actually deserved it after all.

The Miraculous Ladybug plaguedom got it coming for a looonggg time with their poor behavior.

Yep. I be avoiding searching up or typing Lila Rossi anywhere besides here (or Discord servers I’m in or Telegram channels) these days. And the funny part is the things they jeered about are ignored when similar or surpassing crap happens in their faces, when she’s not present, happened episodes earlier or later. Ya got Animaestro and The Party Crasher. Earlier you could say Frozer. And later you can say Crocoduel, Gabriel Agreste (The Episode) or Rocketear. I could say of even later, Evolution, Intuition, or non canon Plastic Special. There also exists The NY Special or Shanghai Special. Even The Christmas Special where Ladybug completely disregards what Adrien said and proceeded to attempt merking Santa Claus (which could have been a normal Parisian). I could list many more episodes but nah.

They are disgustingly choosey and are…

Accidents.

They are the same bozos that are aware or should know that a woman died because people chased her to her death for wanting to see more of Lila. Tried to deal with it but you know, unfortunately… And now (or rather since that leak happened,) pests want to disregard what Lila said to Gabriel Agreste in Oni-Chan and desire Lila to be a predo and encourage that egregious thing or thought to become canon by writers and too many buffoons discard the ramifications of that and seem to want to be lame and ignore that what’s being said against her is disgusting.

It’s ultimate level of justifying their delusions because ignoring and let her go is too much work. Them believing their stupid actions to be righteous. They’re even more funny to me considering Miraculous Secrets Lila when Marinette (delusionally) believes she can Adrien could still save her (instead of leave her alone and not make things worse like Adrien said in the infamous episode).

These hotshots and scums.

They’ve set destruction in motion something can never undo.

Or that they set in motion what they don’t want to undo or stop.

This grotesque thirst to want to be inherently right against her while disregarding all else. They hated what was being twisted or done against Chloe & what happened to Chloe. They can sadly somewhat acknowledge that Marinette was the idiot to Kagami (but definitely mostly only at the end of Mr. Pigeon 72 because Kagami finally supported the cage coded ship). They somewhat can admit when Luka or mostly Juleka is being a punching bag. Despite all of that, they some reason are allergic to Lila and want Marinette to be predestined as right for all, ironically, which is amusing because that discards above what they can perceive and Adrien or Alya.

Their Twisted Sense Of Grave spitting justification.

Due to their tunnel vision of only seeing Lila, they should just admit they love Gabuse, Maribuse, Adult Abuse Apologia winners, Derision, Deflagration, Revolution, Recreation, Omnicidal Victor and his apologists. How about they also admit that they are in awe for Tomoe Tsurugi, Audrey Bourgeois, Nathalie failing Emilie and Emilie’s legacy, Both Andres, Theo Barbot.

And how about they plea to adoring Adrien Kagami Juleka Luka Chloe and Ironically Marinette suffering. How about they also admit that they secretly love the writers they say they say they hate, Jeremy Zag, and Ezra Weisz. They should make it easier for themselves and confess that they secretly love that incident that made Cristina Vee leave Twitter. How about they finally just announce they are happy that wife to be, never will be.

Sigh... It’s just who many are & it will never go away.

No matter what happens.

[k7l4d4]

K Reviews and Rants: Miraculous Ladybug Season 5! Episode 18

Here we are, time for the "Emotion" review! Oohh boy... this is gonna be an annoying one.

Overall, beyond the issues with this episode in how it tries to shill Marinette and Zoe's friendship, Felix literally trying to wipe out Paris and all of humanity just because he can and the show framing it as "him having no choice" and "just doing what he needs to," the biggest issue with this episode is it's criticism of "the rich."

Like, I know, "eat the rich" is a thing, and there are a LOT of exploitative jerks who take advantage of the lower class in the world. But this? What this did was try and present a bunch of teenagers just being spoiled brats and doing nothing but being uncomfortable with a "poor person" around them as deserving of Felix's pointless rampage. It tries to have Zoe critique them by labeling them as "braindead zombies," which if anything makes Felix's actions WORSE because it makes them come off as not a threat, just annoyances. And what really sinks it home how shallow this episode's "message" is... is how it doesn't criticize the biggest Rich Hate Sinks in the show, Andre and Audrey. Oh it takes a stab at Gabe, but he's meant to be sympathetic later on (emphasis on "meant to be"), but the series has already downplayed how much of a corrupt official Andre is and ignores how horrible Audrey is as a person in favor of making her toxic control over Andre a joke and blowing off her emotional and verbal abuse of BOTH her daughters. It's aimless, weak, and just doesn't seem to have any overarching POINT to it.

Anyway, that's my two cents in hindsight. Onto the review!

Episode 18: Emotion 

And we start off with Andre giving a "couples' ice cream" to Adrien and Marinette, and aside from acting like a bit of a brat and demanding that there's no drama going on, he doesn't look like he'll go Akuma for once. 

And another near kiss between Adrien and Marinette got killed. Albeit this time it doesn't look like supernatural BS by Gabriel, just regular BS. 

Marinette is worried at how "weird" Adrien is being lately, and tries to get intel from Nino about what's happening to him... and we more or less get yet another case of the show trying to act as if Marinette's stalking was some big joke they could wink and nudge about. 

And now we have Marinette learning about the Diamond Dance. From Alya. Which, granted, wouldn't be so bad since Alya is a journalist... but she apparently didn't even do the research, she just "knows about it" and used Alliance to pull up the info for Marinette. 

Now we get a scene of Kagami training in swordsmanship with Tomoe, before...ughh... Lila shows up. Nope, not gonna mention how royally idiotic her still believing anything Lila says is, I'm not gonna do it. 

...PFFFT. Wow, I genuinely cannot tell if Kagami is that fucking dense or she is genuinely throwing shade at Lila. "You're not a precious stone, you're just a stone." Best line in this mess. 

If this is meant to be Kagami having an "autism" moment, though, I'm not impressed.

Zoe making a "joke" comparing the attendants of the Diamond Dance (the sons and daughters of Paris' elite) to a party of brain-eating Zombies is gonna set the tone for things. The unironic description of the children of the 1% in such a way is all kinds of toxic and obnoxious to me. 

We get a tiny reference to Zoe's life in New York (no real details beyond the "rich brats making her life a nightmare at school"). 

And a moment of Zoe shilling how "Marinette taught her not to let her family control her life" despite the fact that, by all accounts, THEY NEVER DID. 

I honestly just have no words at the moment. I can barely follow along with whatever thought process the writers are having Marinette go through right now. All I can get is that Marinette thinks she needs to "save" Adrien from his dad... again. 

Also, the masquerade masks acting as the invitations just screams obnoxious to me. 

Oh, and yet more proof that Gabe is a fucking hypocrite who puts his need for control over whatever alleged "love" he has for Adrien as his son.

The one upside is that we are getting more signs that Gabriel is gonna cut Lila loose... which is both one of the smartest and dumbest things he could possibly do. Smart since she's a manipulative troublemaker who isn't nearly as useful as she presents herself as, dumb because she's far too close to his operations at this point. 

Although the fact that Lila is genuinely dumb enough to think she can dictate terms to the guy who is literally HER BOSS makes his decision even smarter. This level of arrogant self-assurance and ignorance of reality is one of the biggest reasons her being so successful baffles me. 

Now we get a "funny" moment involving Andre, Audrey, and Chloe arriving at the ball.

Chloe describing Adrien as "the traitor" just sounds so completely and utterly WRONG to me. Like, it adds nothing and just sounds awkward with her voice. It's the issue with the lead-up to her becoming Sole Destroyer all over again. She just DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT when they try and put words nastier than kindergarten grade bullying in her mouth. 

Marinette's reasoning for why she's even going to the party screams of plot contrivance. She's literally forcing herself into a party she wasn't ever invited to... just to tell Adrien that it'd be okay if he told her about it and that she wouldn't have minded if he had to go but didn't want to. All things she could literally have just TEXTED HIM ABOUT. IT IS NOT THAT FUCKING HARD!!! 

There's one big fucking hole in Marinette's plan to infiltrate the dance: even if she has an invitation, she's walking through the front-door. While paparazzi are mobbing the entrance for photos, and unlike in Inside Job, they aren't just going to conveniently lose all ability to notice her. 

And we get Adrien's arrival and then his staring weirdly intently at Kagami's ring. THAT doesn't mean ANYTHING at all, I'm sure. /s 

And now Amelie is on the scene. And we get a scene of Amelia accusing Gabriel of having "changed" since whatever happened to Emilie, which doesn't make a lick of sense since Adrien, consistently, has described Gabe as ALWAYS having been this much of an ass.

And NOW we get a scene of Amelie criticizing Nathalie for going along with the "different" Gabe... and Nathalie going, sorry but I have no choice. The FUCK YOU DON'T WOMAN!! This, shit like THIS, is why them trying to make Nathalie redeemable DOES NOT FUCKING WORK!!! 

"There's always a choice, Nathalie," AMELIE IS THE LAST PERSON WHO SHOULD BE SAYING THIS!! She KNOWINGLY harbored her son from the heroes, CHOOSING to shield him from the consequences of his actions!! She does not get to say shit like this!! 

I'm honestly just baffled that the security detail isn't concerned on any level by how out of place Marinette is. Not to be classist, but literally EVERYONE looks dressed up, whereas she's... casual. Granted, so would Zoe, so maybe they somehow knew that's the kind of style Zoe likes? Who knows. 

And now, after using the mask/invitation to get in, she's just "suddenly dolled up to the nines," in the same ritzy style as the rest of the guests are. HOW!? Is, is it some kind of super-tech or something?? That would honestly be believable, IF we were given ANY kind of explanation at all!! 

And now we get Chloe shoving her face in the disguised Marinette's, with Marinette using Zoe's name... I'm honestly baffled on why Chloe doesn't recognize her, since she should know damn well that Zoe had an invitation and recognize Marinette's voice... nope, not gonna think about it, that way lies madness. Also, they are really hitting all the "shallow, vapid brat" stereotypes with her today, huh? 

The way she more or less implied that all rich kids have underlings makes me want to drive my head against a wall. Like, this is just obnoxiously stereotypical. THIS is what Astruc is dead set on implying is the deepest evil humanity can sink to!? THIS!? Also, her stating that they make fun of their "underlings" doesn't make a lick of sense since Chloe hasn't really ever made fun of Sabrina. She, at worst, just takes advantage of her.

We get a few brief muffled snippets of conversations of the other rich kids and, again, they are basically just cardboard cutouts of Chloe's post-flanderization personality. This is literally a "party" of walking stereotypes. Kagami and Adrien then have a conversation, with Kagami questioning why Adrien kissed her hand "because he's in love with Marinette," which is the kind of thing that's really shoehorned in. At a big fancy event like this, I'm pretty sure he would be expected to do that REGARDLESS OF HIS FEELINGS. 

Adrien, who I'm "suspecting" is not Adrien, asks Kagami if she's jealous. Kagami honestly answers, and I'm just... why? WHY!? Why would EITHER of them CARE enough to talk about this!? Is this meant to be a set-up of some kind?? I don't get what this is meant to introduce!! WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS AWKWARD CONVERSATION!? 

Also, the way Kagami phrases her reaction as "shutting off her feelings" feels icky to me. If this is meant to be some kind of neurodivergence wink and a nudge, MY ANGER RISES. But even if it isn't, the set-up, treating emotions like something you have to "turn off for other people's happiness" DISGUSTS ME on so many levels!! You don't have to stop loving someone to want to support their happiness with somebody else!! God fucking DAMMIT I thought we were past this shit!! And now we get "Adrien" calling Kagami "his Queen." I am creeped out on so many levels, since he's not even pretending to talk like Adrien by now. 

Kagami saying things like "I am the descendant of Samurai women, we follow orders because we choose to" makes me want to puke. THIS is the kind of shit that I find infuriating, because they are all but blatantly stating that she is being emotionally abused and gaslit, and that's not even going into the implications she's a fucking SENTIMONSTER!!! God dammit does this infuriate me. 

"Let's leave." "Are you insane, we can't do that!" "Of course we can, I can." Well THAT isn't ominous at fucking ALL.

The way they frame Kagami realizing "Adrien" is serious as something interesting weirds me the fuck out. It comes off as kinda predatory, like him being someone who knows something deeply personal about another and intending to exploit her over it, with her being none the wiser. 

And after the remainder of that awkward "conversation," we get the sight of them before the guests of the Diamond Dance... and Marinette immediately rushes for Adrien. ...She's supposed to be SMART, right? RIGHT!? 

Honestly, even if she HAD been invited, her basically shoulder-checking her way past the other guests to get to Adrien SHOULD HAVE gotten her kicked out of this idiotic ball. 

And now she's in front of "Adrien" rambling like an idiot. Telling "him" things that she could've just fucking TEXTED HIM. Deep breathes... deep breathes... And now we get Marinette and Fadrian dancing together, nothing uncomfortable about that at all, while Chloe tries to rally the guests... who all can't bring themselves to touch Marinette for the most superficial reasons imaginable. Astruc really wasn't even TRYING. 

Also, for once? Chloe's basically entirely in the right about all this. While her elitist attitude is deplorable, not only does Marinette not have permission to be there at all, she had already massively disrupted the entire (boring, dull, unoriginal) party. I'm just wondering why the HELL none of the fully human security detail members from outside the ballroom itself haven't been called in to kick her out!? It's not as if she (in her civilian form) has any kind of powers that would let her get the drop on things!!

Also, I'm mildly surprised that Gabe hasn't tried ordering F-Adrien to pull away and stop dancing with her... but that would spoil the surprise, now wouldn't it? It's not as if he's had any problem using his power over Adrien in as unsubtle ways possible BEFORE today. 

"They're all looking at me like I'm a monster," Marinette, please shut the fuck up. They aren't looking at you like you're a monster, they are looking at you like you are someone who broke into a party you had no business being at under false pretenses (and being too much of a bunch of whiny brats to want to remove by their own power). Also, it's really "funny" how the only adults present are Gabe, Tomoe, Audrey, and Andre. 

For a so-called gathering of the Elite. 

"Look closer Marinette, THEY'RE the monsters." Why? What have they done, IN ANY WAY, to be described that harshly!? Adrien's a fucking shut-in, so it's not as if he knows any of these people, the worst you can say about them is that they are spoiled!! They aren't monsters, they are just people, people who don't yet know better, and whose only crime is being part of a group you don't fucking LIKE!!! GET THE ABSOLUTE FUCK OVER YOURSELF ASTRUC!!! 

Of fucking COURSE it's fucking Felix!! All it took was him saying something totally out of character within earshot of Marinette for it to make any kind of sense!! Also, I kinda just "love" how Marinette instantly thinks Felix "did something to Adrien," which doesn't make any sense given his track record. Even at his worst up until now, all Felix really did was impersonate Adrien and tried to damage his reputation. So her thinking he "did something to Adrien" just... feels insanely stupid.

Now we get Chloe literally JUMPING on Marinette to tear off her mask... instead of just calling in security from outside. Because WHY THE FUCK NOT!? Oh, and Felix is transforming in public, I guess. 

Wait, NOW I see the other adults, they were just out of most of the shots. 

"I can wipe out anyone bathed in the light of the Red Moon with the snap of my feathers!" Question: When did Felix get the fucking Rooster Miraculous? You know, the one that is supposed to grant people any superpower they can imagine so long as it doesn't violate some utterly arbitrary rule? 

And also, WHAT THE FUCK DID ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE DO TO DESERVE GETTING WIPED OUT AT ALL!? 

Argos honestly works fairly well as a delusional villain, honestly. He talks like he's "wiping people out" for some kind of moral basis, but literally EVERY TIME HE HAS SHOWED UP, he has done nothing but torment Adrien, damage his social life, enable Gabe's cruelty, so on and so forth to utterly idiotic degrees. Him acting like what he's doing is for the sake of others is BULLSHIT. He just wants to be the one doing the controlling. 

Kagami screaming in horror at the sight of her mother being wiped out is honestly the most believable part of this whole episode. As much as Tomoe has been shoehorned into the role of being a villain, Kagami genuinely CARES about her, which makes Felix's attitude even more stupid. Literally all of this is just him power-tripping over getting to do whatever the fuck he wants to the people around him. 

"Adrien is the last person I would want to hurt" LIES!! FUCKING LIES!! YOU LITERALLY DID NOTHING BUT TRY AND DAMAGE HIS REPUTATION THE LAST FEW TIMES YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND!! HOW DO YOU THINK THAT ISN'T HURTING HIM YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!?

Now we get a cringe-inducing musical number. Like, the lyrics alone basically spell out that Felix is a selfish hypocrite who only cares about anything so far as it relates to him getting what he wants. 

Also, while he's right in that he isn't working for Monarch/Hawkmoth/WHOEVER THE FUCK HE IS, him acting as if he needed to hand over all the Miraculouses "for his plans" when he literally had the perfect Miraculous for stealing the Peacock without any problem at all just reeks of self-serving hypocrisy. 

And now we get to the root of his hypocrisy. His wish wouldn't even be BAD if he hasn't been consistently a self-serving hypocritical douche-canoe all this fucking TIME. The fact that he's labeling Marinette with the "controlling others, deciding others' fates" BS just spells that out. He doesn't know what he's talking about, and he doesn't fucking CARE. He just wants free rein to do what HE wants and fuck the consequences towards anyone else. Also, he can't realistically use snapping her away as a threat because he's already revealed he needs her to stick around. 

Also, them trying to make him sound sympathetic by acting like he has "nothing to lose" just screams "PITY ME!!" at max volume. It falls flat with how much of a selfish and despicable tool they've made him out to be. This isn't revealing someone previously thought bad has depths no one had considered (like what it looked like they were doing with Chloe in Season 2), this is them trying to ignore how blatantly hypocritical this idiot is. 

Like, he literally just admitted he would rather wipe out EVERYONE in the world if he has to if it means getting his way. 

"The whole world has been bathed in the light of the Red Moon." Seriously? Like, seriously. It's a spherical object hovering over the sky of Paris. It's not even covering ALL OF FRANCE, let alone the world. 

"All of humanity will disappear if you don't hand it over!" BECAUSE OF YOU!! YOU ARE TRYING TO PIN THE BLAME ON HER FOR YOUR FUCKING CRIMES YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!!! THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!! 

And we get some scenes of Felix wandering an empty Paris before getting confronted by Kagami. Ugghhh....

And he reveals he can bring people back, fantastic. 

If the transformations are meant to block people from realizing someone is transformed, how did Adrien notice that Argos is Felix? HOW!? Also, we literally fucking SAW Red Moon get created during the ball, so just... did he make TWO OF THEM? AND USED A SMALLER ONE IN PRIVATE OR SOMETHING??? 

Him calling Adrien his "favorite cousin" is a bad joke. Adrien is his ONLY fucking cousin, and he routinely treats him like shit. Unless Felix is delusional beyond words, this comes off more as him mocking Adrien for "not having the guts to stand up to his oppressors." 

Seriously, them framing the wholesale slaughter of the entirety of Paris as "saving Adrien" and conveniently ignoring how literally NOTHING Felix has ever done or said to Adrien prior to this has been anything other then malicious really makes me feel sick to my stomach. 

Okay, so he DID make the stupid thing earlier. Still doesn't explain how he made it disappear and reappear, OR how Adrien could see through his transformation. Also, he's apparently been stalking Adrien for WHO KNOWS how long, yet the knowledge that Adrien is in Love with Marinette came as a SURPRISE TO HIM!? WHAT KIND OF BULLSHIT IS THIS!? 

Wow, how convenient of him to ignore how he tried to ruin Adrien's social life. And tormented his friends pretending to be him. And all the other times he's done nothing but make life harder for the people he allegedly cares for to satisfy his personal whims. This... this is just some delusional psycho throwing a tantrum. I think I'm gonna throw up. 

I just... I just cannot take this seriously. Felix has been consistently utterly malicious and self-serving all this time. Trying to reframe that as him giving a shit about Adrien (who he hasn't properly seen in years and tried to ruin the life of) and Kagami (who he doesn't even fucking KNOW) just doesn't WORK. 

"Do you really think I'm that evil?" Yes. Yes they do. Because you literally ACT that evil. You literally threatened to WIPE OUT THE WORLD just to get your own way.

Something's wrong, I can usually bring back whoever I want!" How would you even KNOW THAT!? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU BEEN TESTING THIS FUCKED UP POWER ON IN SECRET!? 

Again, them trying to make him sound remorseful DOES NOT FUCKING WORK when he didn't have any problem wiping out ALL OF FUCKING PARIS. 

"I never meant to hurt you two," THAT IS FUCKING NEWS TO ME!! CONSIDERING YOU LITERALLY TRIED TO RUIN ADRIEN'S PERSONAL LIFE YOUR VERY FIRST DAY BACK IN PARIS!!! 

If him talking so remorsefully to the non-sentient orb in the sky he made is supposed to be touching, it fails. He just looks unhinged. 

And now we learn that Amelie knew all along about Felix being Argos and what he was planning. Mother of the fucking year people!!! You can't make her come across as sympathetic when she's the accomplice of the guy who tried to genocide Paris. 

And it's done. I'm just... drained by this. I don't hate this as much as the prior episode, even if I am infuriated by it, since my anger is more inflamed by... things going on in the world being carried over to the writing here. These writers are fucking HACKS.

[sairenharia]

HONESTLY? Yeah! Overall, as a bully, Chloe is far from the worst that's been in media. Like I wouldn't want her in real life, but the people she bullies are in a school that regularly gets attacked by Akumas. Am I really supposed to believe someone whose almost been vaporized by monsters every other week is seriously that worked up by what Chloe does anymore?

Like in the moment, SURE. Like Juleka was desperate to break her picture curse and of course she's mad at Chloe about it, but also Juleka has been attacked by a bunch of monsters, so after she calms down, she wouldn't even hold a grudge against Chloe because in the grand scale of things, missing another picture sucks. Its not haunting her dreams.

Most of Chloe's 'crimes' suck when she does them, and she is mean and she should work on that, but its hard to see them as terrible crimes when again, these people are able to let go their classmates trying to murder them sometimes.

But what even ARE her worse, truly unjustified crimes?

Because there are times where Chloe is cruel and its not an unreasonable reaction. Her snapping at Sabrina is an understandable reaction, she was having a bad day. She wasn't just being mean to Sabrina for the sake of it, she was upset and this is her pattern of behavior. Her butler? Dude showed off her stuffed toy to her peers and was talking to her like a small child, she was embarrassed. Getting Alya suspended? Girl was invading her privacy and while the punishment is extreme, its not like she knows why Alya wanted into her stuff and she knows when SHE'S snooping in stuff, its because she wants to hurt someone. Upsetting her father? Literally Andre, Sabrina, and Adrien were the only ones upset by Chloe leaving, the rest threw a party, I'd want to leave too.

Even wanting Marinette banished? Truly it was irrational and unreasonable, but look at what happened before that: She watched Adrien slowly falling apart into glitter, failed to save him, got murdered by her mom, saw her mother choose Marinette over her, get told she was basically dirt by her mother, have a superpowered break down, and then gets dragged to her mother and had it reinforced that she could only have her mother's love if she was exceptionally mean, and then when she's STILL managing to play with the idea of trying to be a good person, Marinette tells her to her face that she doesn't deserve to even try. Even then, its pretty clear Audrey worked her up even more.

Otherwise, her big things are sabotaging contests, which is just common school bully behavior in television shows, breaking Kim and Rose's heart, and otherwise its just like...she's rude and insulting and she does things for her own selfish gain.

Until Season Five, but also Lila and Gabriel were manipulating her, and her crimes are so over the top and ridiculous and just shoots the suspension of disbelief too much. A fourteen year old just commits a coup? Seriously? Not a superpowered one, just an actual teenager who has shown no ability to sway people to that degree without outside power backing her up. Andre was the MAYOR. There is a chain of command. There are things in place for who takes over if he suddenly died. No one is putting a fourteen year old in charge. If I'm supposed to take all that seriously, then it all has to be taken seriously, which includes the fact someone who feels isolated and alone is really easy for evil people to take advantage of. Its just more of Chloe being the reality of the metaphors!

But these kids are strong enough to take Akumas attacking them every other week, but I'm supposed to believe that Chloe's efforts are even a blip anymore? We even see it. People are more and more inclined to just straight up ignore Chloe! She has to FORCE them to pay attention to her by financially hijacking their movie, or repelling down into their strategy sessions.

Of course, there is Chloe's treatment of Zoe...

Zoe who Chloe had taken to trying to GUIDE when she showed up. Chloe was not a bully to Zoe at first, Chloe was continuing the exact same kind of behavior that has always happened in their family. Audrey domineers, everyone listens. Chloe just made sure SHE was the Audrey, but you know what? Unlike Audrey, Chloe was actually helping Zoe, from her perspective. She shared the expectations she felt she had to meet, and was genuinely trying to guide Zoe how to survive in their family. The only time she got hostile with Zoe is when she saw Zoe was talking to MARINETTE. Who Adrien prefers, who her classmates prefer, who her MOTHER prefers, who literally everyone else in the whole world prefers to Chloe. Chloe thought she had a sister and was outright terrified Marinette was going to take her too, but the moment Zoe said she didn't like Marinette, she was OVERJOYED and tried to BOND with Zoe with NORMAL FAMILY BEHAVIOR and Zoe did not discourage her at all.

And here is the thing.

Chloe doesn't know Zoe is nice. Because we see in Gabriel Agreste, Zoe is still acting haughty with the staff. That doesn't change until Season Five. Chloe isn't hanging out with Zoe when she's with her friends, she sees Zoe at the hotel. As far as Chloe knows, Zoe is a bitch too, and yet her friends accept her! Chloe sees someone who is EXACTLY LIKE HER get accepted and embraced by her classmates, and now not only is everyone choosing Marinette over her, they're choosing Zoe. She was excited for a sister and her sister chooses everyone else over her.

Of course she lashes out at Zoe. Zoe doesn't WANT Chloe. No matter what she says, her actions prove otherwise. She never speaks up for Chloe, only reaches out to her for manipulation, lies to her face.

Is Chloe a bully? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, what she's done is not that huge, and sometimes its very understandable WHY she lashed out at certain people.

She should apologize for her actions, but if I'm supposed to believe her classmates can deal with their lives being threatened every other week without any obvious signs of trauma?

I can't believe Chloe's actions are that big of a deal.

Why Chloe Deserved A Miraculous

Its a thought that's been stewing in my head and the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was true. Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

From a Doylist Perspective.

When there is conversations of if Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous is always presented from a Watsonian perspective. For those who don't know, Watsonian means the perspective of someone inside the story. A character. Doylist is the perspective of those in the real world. The author and audience.

The problem I see from fandom discourse is how often people don't actually consider the tools in a story. Often they take a Watsonian perspective, talk about what is right and sensible and should be how things work if this was a real situation. But the thing about stories is they have messages. They have tools and metaphors and themes to help display these messages. Sure, shows are about entertainment, but a story always has some kind of point. It may not be a moral lesson, it may not be some grand philosophy, but any story worth telling says SOMETHING. It takes a stance. The Fast and the Furious is all about doing cool stunts with cars, but it also has a message of doing things for family because if you just want to see cool car stunts, just go watch cool car stunts, but no, people want at least a little humanity in the car stunts, so there is a message of family. Sharing is caring, do your best, the heat death of the universe comes for us all, the messages can be vast, but there's some point of emotional reality to invest us in this specific media.

If we talk about Chloe and the Miraculous from a Watsonian perspective, no, she is not entitled to a Miraculous. No one is entitled to an object of power. Not even Marinette nor Adrien are entitled to their Miraculous.

But superpowers aren't real. Superpowers have always been a tool to emphasize a point. The stories of superman only focused on his powers are boring, but when you tell stories of how he tries to fit into a world that is not made for him, stories of how much he loves this world despite how easy it could be to be cruel, it gets interesting. The reason superhero comics started is there was a want to show that there can be incredibly powerful people who choose to be good. To choose to make the world a better place.

Superpowers made just to be cool and show off are boring. There is only so much you can watch a fight with a cool power before it gets dull and repetitive. But you relate the powers, the struggles of using the powers, to the person wielding them, the story has a lot more staying power. The powers say something about the person, and is part of their development.

And honestly, Miraculous is a good case for why this is important.

Because good god, most of the superhero team is boring.

And I don't just mean because they're good people, so there's no spice, though that's also true, but because the powers aren't really used to emphasize anything about the character. Max has portals. Why? His mom wants to be an astronaut, but we never really hear about Max wanting to travel. Doorman is a better example of a portal hero because he loves going to other places and learning about them.

Now portals are good for a tactician....except Max is never the tactician despite the fact we know he's brilliant and is good at video games. He just does as he's told by Ladybug for where he should put his portals. Its so close, but its not utilized.

And that is the case for most of the superheroes. Like the bones are there, but nothing is properly utilized. Sabrina is definitely a dog, good at getting things, and is in fact well practiced in recognizing what things may or may not be important. But we've never actually gotten to focus on her BEING a superhero, she only had a small cameo with the power, basically. Same with Ivan, really. They're pretty perfect for their powers and it suits their personalities, but none of it is EXPLORED. And that's the case with most of the heroes.

Juleka and Rose were pretty good at using the Miraculous to develop more of someone's character and emphasize a strength about another in turn. These are good hero episodes because we learned more about them and their journey.

Kagami's first episode with the dragon showed off more of her, such as she could be reckless, which is new information, but we learn a lot about her without it, and nothing new beyond that.

Luka could have actually been incredibly good because the snake both emphasizes a big part of him, and something he needs to work on. Luka is someone who steps back and watches. He observes. However, he has a problem where he often is too willing to step back. But with the snake needs someone who can observe AND act. So its a Miraculous that uses an important part of his personality, but could have also helped him grow.

And the rest are just...nothing.

There is a little for Nino and Alya. Nino is definitely more bold about defending his friends than he was at first, and Alya learns to be better about secrets, but these are the primary secondary heroes. We should have seen a ton of impact and development due to them having the Miraculous.

Here is the stance Miraculous should be taking in their story.

The desperation of those trapped and the power of being given good options.

Most of the Akumas are people who are trapped. They feel powerless. They are desperate to escape their problem and feel like they have no proper recourse with things are they are. How accurate this is varies, but this is how they feel in the moment, and that is what Gabriel preys on. These people agree to the deal because they don't feel like they will be helped any other way.

Ladybug and Chat Noir are meant to bring hope to those who felt hopeless and chose a terrible way to try and escape. They are support. They are a hand people desperately need.

So by that same token, the Miraculous should be a good way for people who feel trapped to be given an option, OR give those people the ability to extend their own hands to help others.

While it doesn't have to every time, it should often be the case those who are given a Miraculous; A, dealing with a huge problem and the Miraculous helps them solve that problem, regardless to the Akuma being related. Like if Juleka was working on trying to speak up even if the Akuma wasn't her parents and the Tiger still helped her do that. B, they are related to the Akuma and why they feel trapped, so they are working through their own issues with the important person. Like Rose when Juleka felt guilty. Or C, the person wants to find a way to help in general and kind of go how it went with Nino becoming Carapace. Where they were trying to be that hand a person needed, and earn the Miraculous, and that helps them on their journey to provide more support and help.

But its often it is someone they know, but them being the hero doesn't REALLY matter. Penalteam, the people were just there, these specific people didn't matter. Why did Zoe need to be Vesperia? Anyone could have taunted Chloe and she got turned into a banana real fast, her being the Bee didn't really bring a lot, to the bee, to her, or even to Chloe, and then she proceeded to just not bring much as the Bee, to the story, or herself.

Now part of this problem is that Marinette is not allowed to not learn a lesson, and has to be the one to save the day. These heroes do have skills. They have things they could be good at. But often....the plan is just what Marinette says. These heroes are not allowed to have agency.

They can't make decisions on their own.

Often times, they're just bodies being told to do the power without the ability to make the decision how and when. Sometimes they let the heroes do things and make decisions, but nine times out of ten, its Marinette who says who does what and when and her mental health is degrading because of it.

The Akumas are stories that always at least tell us something about the person because we see what problems hit them hard. There is something to learn, a bit of conflict to develop from.

The Miraculous should be following that trend, but in a positive way, but...doesn't.

All that being said.

Chloe was entitled to the Miraculous.

Because here is the stance Miraculous takes.

Someone is trapped in a situation and chooses to lash out violently and while that violence can not be permitted to continue, the heroes offer their support so the victim can feel like they have another option.

This is the story of Miraculous crystalized. People who feel alone and helpless are easily convinced to hurt others until someone is willing to help them despite this harm.

Chloe is the story of Miraculous.

Akumas are a metaphor.

And Chloe is the reality.

A child who is alone. Who feels trapped in her situation. Who doesn't know what else to do. So she does the only thing she knows how. She lashes out. She hurts people. She keeps them distant because then it doesn't hurt as much when they leave, or when they treat her like dirt.

Chloe is an Akuma personified, but her problems are brief moments. They're not a bad day that someone took advantage of. They are ever present and continuous and more over, reinforced to continue.

Chloe knows being a brat gets her what she wants from her father and was never taught to not be like that. Because he didn't discipline her, because her mother acted like that, because all adults around her was staff. Making demands is what she was TAUGHT and learned, through observation and guidance.

A behavior she continued to do with kids, and she found out teachers responded to the same threats and was never properly stopped. Other kids, reasonably, didn't want to deal with her, or submitted to her like Sabrina.

Chloe was not never taught how to be good. She was, in fact, very much taught to NOT be good. Her parents both set a terrible example. Her father is a corrupt politician. He may spoil her, but he we know he bribes and blackmails people, plus, you know, abandoned his daughter and technically kidnapped Zoe. This is not a paragon of a man. Then there was her mother. But she had a choice, listen to the man who had to weasel and cheat and play back handed games to get what he wanted, or the woman who got anything and everything she wanted...of course she would try to be the woman who seemed to get everything her way.

Because if her mother got everything she wanted, if Chloe was like her, maybe she could get everything SHE wanted.

Except it wasn't working.

But Chloe wasn't taught it was because she was cruel. She just started to believe she wasn't GOOD ENOUGH.

Maybe if she was as great as her mother, it would work.

By the time she would be old enough to recognize that wasn't how the world worked...well, by then, most of her peers hated her.

And here is something I think goes under the radar about Zoe.

Zoe knows how to act like Chloe. Audrey didn't blink at it. Zoe defaulted to the same behavior as Chloe. Zoe said she put on an act and she was tired of it.

Zoe WAS CHLOE.

And we know what happened with Zoe. Zoe stopped acting like Chloe. And then she got bullied. People were mean and cruel and put cockroaches in her locker and she only had one friend.

I'm sure that's why Zoe moved to Paris. Zoe went to her mom because she wanted a clean slate. She wanted the bullying to stop.

Even then, she struggled to stop. She defaulted to her habit, and we see that she CONTINUED the act around the hotel for some weeks after, because it was a hard habit to break.

But then...

Zoe got support. A hand was held out to her. Marinette gave her a chance, and so did everyone else, and Zoe took it because she wanted to be herself and she wanted to stop being cruel. Of course she's nice. She was given the space to be so.

Chloe is never given that support.

Chloe doesn't know how to be kind. She doesn't know how to be nice.

But the greatest tragedy is Chloe does know how to be GOOD.

Out of all the heroes, besides Chat, to a lesser degree Alya, and Alix and Luka by nature of their Miraculous, Chloe shows the most agency as a superhero. All the other heroes have their hands held by Ladybug. She tells them what to do, to an overly specific degree, and they are just bodies to use a tool. Chloe? Chloe acts on her own. To good and bad effect. Discounting the whole Queen Wasp break down, just when Chloe is actually acting as a superhero, she doesn't wait for Ladybug to tell her everything all the time. She calls out to her father, which was a mistake, but then there is every other time she's Queen Bee...

And she's fantastic at it.

Miraculer, she almost had Mayura's Miraculous.

Star Train, she gets people away from the Akuma.

In Bakerix, she's the last the to leave the train car.

In Ladybug, she's defending Sabrina.

In Style Queen, played Style Queen in an effort to find a way to save Adrien.

In Heroes Day, she is a great teammate. Keep in mind, everyone on the team knows who Chloe is. Ladybug was desperate and doesn't fully trust Chloe as a general rule. Rena Rouge and Carapace definitely don't trust her at all. Chat Noir is the only one who believes in Chloe as a person.

And yet, throughout the entire fight, Chloe is keeping up and picking up the slack with everyone else. She fights, she keeps civilians from being hurt, her synergy is on fire despite the lack of trust. When Rena Rouge and Carapace go down, she is quick to try and protect them and even after two EXTREMELY dangerous Akuma show up by way of her parents, who are both gunning for her real hard, she holds her own for a while and even then, she had to be mind controlled to stop and to feel negative emotions. It took FOUR AKUMAS gunning for her specifically to corrupt her, akums who are made to mess her up mentally to boot. When they confront Gabriel at the end, she prepares venom without being asked, to have a back up for taking him down. She makes decisions and when she was trusted to act as a hero, they are largely good ones.

And she never once complained about the mental hardship of what she went through. Because that's the thing, all her times as Queen Bee are super intense. They are her loved ones she's fighting, they are incredibly powerful Akumas. She fought a frickin' army.

And everyone...

Just insults her.

She risked her life for people and no one cared.

She fought her family and no one cared.

Chloe doesn't know how to be nice. Nor kind. But she was so good. And while the next day, people appreciated her, it was only a day.

And the tragedy is Chloe didn't immediately go back to being a bully. After Despair Bear, Chloe's bullying habits took an extreme nose dive. We only see her being unreasonably cruel a few times. After Maledikator, the only time is when she bullies Aurore and when she teamed up with Marinette, but also Marinette was with her and they were both doing it for fear of losing Adrien reasons. Not reasonable, but also not just to be cruel and honestly, her plan was fairly benign. She wanted Kagami to leave, not even humiliate her. And even Aurore is because Chloe was reaching the point she did in Miraculer where she was doubting Ladybug's trust in her and as she is want to do, she lashed out.

Most of the time when we see Chloe, what we see is her bragging about being Queen Bee. Which, sure, isn't a great thing...

But better a braggart than a bully. And when things go wrong, she tries to use her status to help reassure and guide people, which is actually a pretty good idea. Akumas are attracted to negative emotions. If she can reassure them, then less likely of them getting akumatized. It may be bragging, but it could help.

Chloe may not have been picture perfect nice, but we literally have an entire classroom full of perfectly nice people. She may not be humble, but bragging is not a damnable offense. But Chloe was legitimately trying to be a better person. She put herself in between others and danger. She had faith and belief that there were solutions. Even without the Miraculous, she tried to help people.

She may have wanted appreciate and gratitude for it, but what's even sadder is she didn't require it.

Chloe believed in Ladybug for a long time. She believed Ladybug would trust her again. She believed she could be given a Miraculous again, and all on her own, ALL ON HER OWN, she was trying to be a better person.

Its actually amazing how good Chloe was being despite the fact no one was helping her.

Because that is the thing.

Zoe got support and help.

Chloe didn't.

Every. Single. Time. Chloe tried to do something different, something not cruel, she is rejected. She tries to join the art club and she's mocked out of it. She tries to be class representative, a job no one else wanted for years, and she loses it as soon as someone did challenge her. She auditions, legitimately, for a music video, with eight years of practice, and she loses it because she isn't nice enough.

She stops bullying, tries to be a reassuring presence, and she is treated with suspicion and derision.

And still.

And STILL.

That isn't what breaks her.

What breaks her is the realization the only time where her efforts were appreciated was taken away. And even then, she holds onto the pieces. Holds onto hope that maybe she would be given a new chance.

Her parents are in danger. The reason she was given she couldn't be a hero is because she and her loved ones would be in danger.

Except her loved ones were in danger.

She was in danger.

Not having a Miraculous didn't change anything. It didn't keep them safe, it didn't keep her safe.

And its only then, after months of no one believing in her for more than two days, of no one holding out their hand, helping her, supporting her, believing her, with the one person she thought DID believe in her proved that she didn't believe in her, and couldn't even give her the safety that not having a Miraculous was supposed to bring.

For months, Chloe only thought Ladybug believed she could be good.

Adrien wanted her to be less cruel, but Chloe knew her being good wasn't necessary for him.

Nor was it for Sabrina.

But Ladybug?

Ladybug needed her to be good to believe in her, and she thought Ladybug did.

Chloe was able to largely bite back her desires to lash out at people based purely on the fact one person, ONE SINGULAR PERSON, needed her to be good, and believed in her ability to be so. It got her derision. It got her suspicion. It got people comparing her to villains. It got her dismissal. But she still tried. She still believed.

A person who didn't really believe in Chloe very much.

And there is also the Watsonian argument that Marinette doesn't owe it to Chloe to help her improve AND THIS IS INCREDIBLY VALID and honestly, in a perfect world, it would be great if it was Adrien who helped Chloe improve.

Or you know, Zoe. Someone who has a clean slate with Chloe and understands where she's coming from and could help her.

But no, this is the Marinette Has To Solve Everything Show.

So from a Doylist view, it IS Marinette who has to help Chloe, but also the Watsonian problem could be helped if it was CLEARLY ESTABLISHED that Marinette knows she doesn't HAVE to help Chloe, and people aren't pressuring her to do so (coughBustiercough) because that is a bad message...

But Marinette can CHOOSE to help her and make that clear.

Because Marinette has seen a lot of Chloe and could understand that she really does just need a little more help. That Chloe needed just a bit more support and help. And, you know, didn't actively encourage Chloe to please her abuser.

But we're going from the Doylist view and we can solve the Marinette being the one to help Chloe problem by not having it be Marinette, but LADYBUG.

And this?

This is why I say Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

Because Chloe is the reality of the stance of the show, and so helping her problem with the metaphors would go a long way.

You see, Chloe doesn't know Ladybug is Marinette. And Marinette knows being Ladybug means being the bigger person. Ladybug believes in people. Ladybug helps everyone she can. Its not about the victim helping their bully, its the superhero choosing to help someone who NEEDS HELP.

Chloe is stuck in her situation. Her mother will always be emotionally abusive. Her father will always be an enabler. She can try to change, but no one will BELIEVE in her change. She will be derided and mocked and treated poorly because no one is willing to give her the chance to grow, and they certainly won't help.

Frankly, its a miracle that Chloe's Akumas are so merciful.

Because Banana Queen is the most destructive of Chloe's Akuma forms. Most of Chloe's Akuma forms don't care about HURTING people. They care about WINNING. She either wants to win or for people to just listen to her.

But give Chloe the Bee Miraculous, and suddenly things change.

Chloe feels like she has OPTIONS as Queen Bee. She doesn't feel she has to meet her mother's expectations as much if she's Queen Bee. She has people who trust and depend on her. At least right after she saves people, she gets a little praise, a little belief.

And people may say being a hero for glory and attention is a bad thing, but the thing is, Chloe's need for glory and attention is about being ACKNOWLEDGED. As feeling like people value and care about her. This is a BASIC HUMAN NEED and she doesn't know another way to get it. Its not like she's demanding physical things for her heroics.

She just wants to be appreciated.

By giving Chloe a Miraculous, she is given the tools to try and be good. She is given an escape from her situation. She is given SUPPORT in her efforts because the other heroes have to support her.

And over time...

That trust will grow.

Because what Chloe doesn't know, all her classmates are the other heroes.

And suddenly, all her classmates will see her as a different person. They will see what she's like when the chips are down. How much effort she's willing to put in. How seriously she takes the job.

Is she still a braggart? Sure. Is she still rude as hell? Absolutely.

But she will risk it all to help people, without asking for anything in return except a little faith.

Chloe is entitled to a Miraculous.

Because her story without a Miraculous is a story of a little girl who no one wanted to help, who were unwilling to offer her help because she lashed out while trying to survive a situation she couldn't escape, and because it wasn't super charged by a terrorist, she was deemed unworthy of it and instead deserving of isolation and constant emotional abuse.

But with a Miraculous?

Chloe is a girl who, when given a little faith, a little trust, a little help, returned it tenfold. Who puts her all in trying to be the best hero she could be. Is she imperfect? Sure. But she's giving it her all. (And frankly, she's spicy and it makes for entertaining character dynamics. You can have a character be a jerk and good, tsunderes are popular for a reason.) And as she gets more trust, as she gets more help, as she is offered that hand of help over and over again, she would continue to improve.

And as she's given power, she uses that same faith to figure out how to offer her hand to others. To help them. To spare them the same pain she suffered.

Because that is what given to the Akuma victims. They are given a little help, and a little power to break free of their magically abusive mindsets.

To have someone go from the continuing the cycle of abuse to someone who would save other people from that?

That is a real superhero story.

Chloe is undeserving from a Watsonian perspective.

But she's so very deserving from a Doylist perspective.

[princess-of-the-corner]

I can make this https://www.tumblr.com/princess-of-the-corner/766707910768279552/going-to-play-devils-advocate-here-and-say-its?source=share more heartbreaking!

Chloe thinks the gift is from her mother, and that Zoe's being honest with her right? So she tries to extend an olive branch and tries to set things up to watch the st- not stupid movie with her sister and mother (She's still furious at Andre for going behind her back)

(She could also try to just watch it with her mother, cos Zoe's seen it, Andre is still on the outs and sort of view it as building herself up.)

Exactly how long this all takes to implode, explode and morph into something traumatic and horrible is up in the air. It could go off the rails instantly, or in stages (Like Audrey doesn't show up) or near the end of the film. The end result though its Chloe has her mothers cruelty thrown in her face again, Zoe lied and Andre, well he's Andre.

The end result is an explosive dismissal from Audrey about the gift and reminding Chloe how she's once again unexceptional and whether Zoe's present or not, Chloe knows it was just a trick.

Honesty yeah I think that even if Zoé and even the class did everything right, using Audrey like that would backfire.

Because yeah Chloé thinks 'Ah. Mother gave this charm for Zoé to give to me. So she must think Zoé is doing something right and we should get along'.

And maybe for a while it works. Sure she notices the speech Zoé gave her was ripped from the script, but hey Chloé isn't too good with words herself.

But Zoé takes the lead. Gives her an example. Gentle reprimands when Chloé misbehaves, etc. Everything that Chloé needs to get better.

Gets the whole class in on it, because even if they're skeptical as hell they'll do anything for Zoé.

And it almost works....

Except nothing with Audrey is getting any better. Chloé is doing what Audrey wanted, which should get praise, right? But it never comes. It never did in the first place, but somehow it's worse now.

And much like what happened in Queen Wasp, Chloé snaps and demands to know what she's doing wrong. Brings up the necklace she gave.

Audrey has no idea what she's talking about. Even if she thought she was so deserving of a gift, she'd never choose something so tacky!

it starts crumbling

Zoé lied. Zoé manipulated her. And though it's something Chloé is very used to, this had been the first time she'd felt so genuinely loved.

And to hear it was all fake. That Zoé was just like their mother, promising affection in exchange for good behavior. Just like Ladybug, who built her up just to use her until a better replacement came along....

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Bourgeois’ family is the cheapest version of Nakiri’s family from Food wars which is both of them having one family members who ever doing affair (Azami & Audrey) and had an illegitimate child (Asahi & Zoe). Sorry spoiler, so surprised That Azami doesn’t realize that he had a child before married to Mana Nakiri. later he feel guilty and decided to quit from Nakiri’s family although Erina still accepting him after what he did and invited Asahi to become the Nakiri’s family.

I’m just wondering, did Audrey will take the responsibility to Zoe because she knows she was cheating or even Her affair will visiting Paris for her responsibility. I don’t have the empathy for this narcissistic woman since before, she neither care to Zoe nor Chloe unlike Azami although he was so harsh on caring Erina, but her daughter still can refused him for his act and can accept his mistakes in the past.

Too bad, this show was reaching 100 episodes and so many wasted potential because asstruc and the writers were still using same storyline. Tbh, this show could become better if thomas can treating his characters that he made equally not only focus on Creepynette and her shenanigans but also the others (i.e. Agreste, Bourgeois & Tsurugi families). Well sadly, his ego, pride and his vision on viewing his audiences like some dumb braindead who don’t understand the story and he’s too busy for blocking the people and giving illogical explanation on Twitter 🥴

I haven’t seen that anime, but that honestly sounds far better than what we have with the Bourgeois family.

The fact that the writers said nothing about what Zoe’s life was like living with Audrey “Doesn’t Even Know Her Own Daughter’s Name” Bourgeois really goes to show just how last-minute her addition feels. They seriously expect us to believe that her relationship with Chloe, someone she barely knows, is worth discussing two whole episodes towards instead of her emotionally neglectful mother. 

The most we get is Zoe acknowledging that they share the same mother and that’s how she tricked Chloe into wearing her soon to be pointless Magical Charm in the first place. Because it’s not enough Marinette has to convince Chloe to bond with her terrible human being of a mother. Now Zoe has to gaslight Chloe into accepting something for her own protection from the crazy butterfly man by claiming it was a gift from their mother, who again, doesn’t give a rat’s ass about either of them.

Say what you will about Chloe, but Audrey is a far worse person who somehow manages to get away with far more than Chloe. Audrey never actually gets called out on her actions while Chloe routinely gets punished for every evil plan she comes up with, because the writers seriously want us to believe she deserves punishment more.

The thing is that both Chloe, Zoe, and even Andre are victims of Audrey’s verbal abuse in some way, yet the show just loves to play it off as a joke because if it isn’t Adrien being insulted, why should we even care?

[starfallskitter]

THIS is Chloe’s redemption arc

Hi! I don’t usually do big media analysis things, but I like Miraculous Ladybug and I’m a writer and familiar with these tropes. I was thinking about Chloe’s character in season 4 and how everyone’s been so upset with what seems like a reversal of her character arc, so I wanted to unpack everything and explain what I believe is going on.

In short: Chloe getting worse, becoming mean again, is the only way she can, after the three seasons she’s had so far, get a satisfying redemption arc. 

Zoe is also very important to her arc; while it could perhaps have been done differently, Zoe’s introduction is perhaps the clearest way of developing Chloe’s character and giving her redemption. But I’ll get to that in a moment.

I recently rewatched the first half of season 1 and most of season 3, so I’ll probably draw from more recent memories in discussion here. Season 4 is, however, the main point of discussion in this post, so big spoiler warning if you aren’t up to date on Sole Crusher and Queen Banana at the very least.

So, character arcs can generally be shortened to a question of, ‘what does this character need to learn? And do they learn it?’, although typically there are bumps along the way, with characters learning the wrong lessons, making mistakes, backtracking, etc. Sometimes it’s a negative character arc where they learn a lie, or refuse to change.

In Chloe’s case, the thing she needs to learn is simple. She believes, in season 1 episode 1, that she is inherently better than other people. She still believes this throughout the entire show up to this point. She needs to learn that that’s not the case.

Success to Chloe is how much power you have, and she expects power. It’s reinforced for her at every turn. Her dad gets her everything she wants, and he’s the Mayor, so his power becomes hers. Her ‘best friend’ is a rich, famous supermodel, which is ultimate success to her, and at the start she’s his only friend, so he must consider her on his level (how he came into this situation doesn’t matter to her). She’s constantly followed by someone who lets her have complete power over her just to get a glimpse of Chloe’s wealth. Bullying and beauty are both sources of power to her as well. Power is success, she has a lot of power, she’s successful, she’s acheived all she wants to.

So, naturally, she loves Ladybug, the most powerful superhero in Paris. She wants to be accepted by Ladybug, and loved by Ladybug, because Ladybug has power, and Ladybug accepting her as her peer means Chloe is on her level. Everyone loves Ladybug, therefore Ladybug has more power than Hawkmoth, the real reason Chloe is on her side.

This doesn’t change much throughout season one. 

In Season 2, though, we meet her mother, who can be summed up as the main source of this thought pattern. Chloe idealises her, more even than Ladybug, and her approval as a powerful person who knows it feels like all Chloe needs. When Chloe gets the Bee Miraculous, it’s not because Ladybug thinks she’s a peer, but Chloe, somewhat desperately, believes that being a Miraculous holder will make her good enough in her mother’s eyes. From the wiki:

Chloé, however, is furious and angrily asks her mother why, out of all people, she would take Marinette to New York City instead of her own daughter. Audrey says that it's because Marinette is exceptional. Chloé retorts that she's exceptional, too, but Audrey says that the only thing exceptional about her is her mother. Hurt by this comment and wanting to prove her mother wrong, Chloé reveals that she has the Bee Miraculous in her possession and transforms into Queen Bee in front of everyone, including the press.

When she gets the Bee Miraculous, it’s not because she’s changed in any way, and it’s not a catalyst for change. The whole plot of Queen Wasp is that Chloe is trying to prove she’s exceptional, but her being exceptional is not what she needs to learn; in fact, it’s the opposite. She needs to learn that she is no more exceptional than anyone else. She doesn’t learn this here.

Again, from the wiki:

Marinette tells Audrey that Chloé is exceptional -- exceptionally mean. She lists all of Chloé's worst qualities, angering both her and Audrey but also making the two realize that they have a lot in common. When Marinette leaves, Audrey asks Chloé if she is really as bad as Marinette said, to which Chloé says that her only friend in school is Sabrina, and she enjoys giving her butler a hard time. Audrey takes back her earlier comment about Chloé not being exceptional, embraces her, and decides to stay in Paris with her.

This is just reaffirming the problem: Chloe’s belief that her power, coming from her cruelty and bullying, makes her special, so she deserves the power, etc. This is not a change in her character arc; this is still setting her up to change later on.

What this sets up is Chloe’s false character arc. It seems, on the outside, that what Chloe needs to learn is how to be nice, or good. That being kind is something she doesn’t know how to do, and she just needs to try. 

This is often a character arc that children’s show bullies have because it’s easy and simple to understand, but it’s not realistic. Bullies are usually not bullies just because they don’t know how to be nice; some are, perhaps, but the truly mean ones who do acts of cruelty because they can have a fundamentally twisted view of the world, like Chloe’s.

A lot of people think Chloe’s false redemption arc was her real one, and it got thrown out the window. Here’s why the false one is important for the real one.

For Chloe to learn that she’s not special, she has to get rid of the idea that being powerful in any way leads to happiness, or the power is equal to success.

In Season 3 we get continuance of the false arc. Importantly, we see her core behavior has not actually changed. At times, she acts heroically, but it’s not necessarily out of the goodness of her heart; and at the times she does this doesn’t necessarily change her character arc, either. She still has a heart. It’ll come out much more later. But she’s still pushing people around. There is no significant change in how she fundamentally treats Sabrina, or her butler, or Marinette, or her father. She doesn’t see them or relate to them any differently. She’s also using her superhero identity to reinforce the idea that she’s special; she remarks constantly about how she’s Queen Bee, she’s a hero, she’s better than everyone, you get the gist. Becoming Queen Bee has reinforced the primary lie (that she is special) that her character arc is going to change.

We see, in Miraculer, Mayura demanding Chloe join them, and Chloe refusing.

At first, it seems like Chloe’s doing well to refuse. Like she has a sense of justice. In truth, though, she’s mainly on Ladybug’s side because the heroes are usually seen as more powerful and cooler than the villains. There might be a sense of justice there, but that’s ultimately irrelevant to the core flaw that she needs to fix to become a better person.

And then, Heart Hunter and Miracle Queen. Ladybug doesn’t give her enough power, so she takes Hawkmoth’s side.

While Ladybug, Cat Noir and Ryuko fight Heart Hunter, Chloé becomes furious and throws her bee signal off of the roof, losing her hope. Hawk Moth comes and tries to convince Chloé to join him. Chloé is reluctant at first, because he is the one who akumatized her parents. Hawk Moth asks what Ladybug has done for her, since Chloé was the one who trusted Ladybug the most as a fan. Chloé finally agrees, but demands that Hawk Moth deakumatizes her parents first. Hawk Moth accepts these conditions.

This is the ultimate thing that reinforces the lie, that she is special and more powerful. The false character arc, that she just needs to learn to be nice, is thrown aside; she was nice to Ladybug, put herself on Ladybug’s side, and tried to work for justice, but it didn’t change that what she ultimately wanted, and felt was most important, was power, being special, status. The moment at the end of Heart Hunter is where she does her heel-turn, and now, what happens next?

Well, rememeber that she needs to learn she’s not special. As of now, she’s had the belief that she’s special reinforced, not weakened. It’s been reinforced as far as it can go. There is nothing she can do to believe she’s any more special than she believes she is. And now, being pissed at Ladybug, her false arc thrown aside, there’s no reason to try and act nice. It didn’t make her happy, after all.

So in Season 4, she doubles down on what she still believes matters: Power.

She’s worse to Sabrina, locking her in her closet, making her chase after the car, etc. She will only consider the best, most powerful friends like her: Zoe, her sister, has to be just as special, just as powerful.... and as we saw at the end of season 2, that means mean.

Which brings me to Zoe.

Zoe is important because she’s everything Chloe could’ve been if she’d already learned her lesson, for one. She’s successful at making friends because she cares about how nice someone is, not their status, which is what Chloe doesn’t get. She’s so frustated that Zoe makes friends at the end of Sole Crusher by just being nice. Chloe wants those friends, but everything in the show so far has taught her that power is important and it’s what will get her love and attention, and her power comes from, again, bullying and her dad.

And that’s also where Andre comes in. The other thing Zoe does is change Chloe’s biggest enabler- Andre. In Queen Banana, he refuses Chloe’s demands for the first time pretty much ever, and draws a hard line in the sand.

Suddenly, a little bit of Chloe’s power is taken away from her in that moment. She can’t understand how Zoe can be happier than her or why her father might tell her no. They’re incompatible with her worldview- that she is special, and powerful, and deserves things just for being special.

At this point, Chloe has to lose everything. She thinks that cruelty to others will make her happy; that demanding things gets her what she wants. It has, so far. So for her to change, that needs to not work. We’re seeing just the beginnings of that in Season 4 so far; she can’t demand anything from her father (although Queen Banana is full of demands she does get). Zoe didn’t find happiness through the method Chloe said she would in Sole Crusher (really, Sole Crusher lays out what Chloe’s been imagining the world is like the entire show. That’s it in a nutshell, really). Adrien told her she needed to be nicer and lowkey rejected her friendship at the end of Queen Banana. Zoe, the sister who is better off doing the opposite of what Chloe thought would make her happy and successful, took her symbol of power- the Bee Miraculous, her superhero identity- away from her. Chloe’s worldview is slowly unravelling as of Season 4.

So, what needs to happen next?

One: she will lose everything. Two: she’ll learn that power doesn’t make her happy. Three: she’ll realise that kindness and justice and equality, etc. are more important. Four: she’ll do something major to show that she understands this and has changed. Five: she’ll permanently stop putting herself above others.

I can’t project too far in the future, but what I can say is what is probably going to come next for the topic of her losing everything. Her father is going to say no more often; her mother will disappoint her; Zoe will continue to do well. Chloe may learn that Zoe is Vesperia, I’m not sure.

But the one main thing that I think, personally, Chloe needs to lose in some dramatic way is Sabrina. Sabrina is just about the last thing that has remained the same for Chloe so far. And I think that that change won’t come by Sabrina’s doing, necessarily. She’s not vengeful and doesn’t see or care about Chloe’s flaws.

But the thing is, it seems obvious by now that everyone in the class is getting a Miraculous. We’ve seen spoilers for Mylene’s and Juleka’s, and my personal opinion is that the four remaining unpaired Miraculous pair up to the three remaining classmates + the one other student who seems to recur (personal guesses: Ivan - Ox, Nathaniel - Rooster, Marc - Dog, Sabrina - Goat), but regardless, what I imagine would break Chloe’s existing worldview more than anything else, and leave it open to change, is Sabrina getting a Miraculous, and Chloe knowing it’s her.

Sabrina is Chloe’s trailing, forever-present symbol of power. She’s always got power over Sabrina. Sabrina being special in a way that Chloe no longer is, a way that got taken by her ‘lame’ sister who she views as less powerful than her, should put a lot into perspective for her.

In short: Chloe is going to have a bad time, and be a bad time, for most of this season, if not all of it. She’s got to learn that her worldview is wrong.

That’s how her character arc will end. That’s how we get a satisfying change, something meaningful happening to her, and her really changing from the bully she was. Miraculous is a lot more complicated than most kid’s shows and it didn’t simplify it down to ‘bully learns to be nice’- Chloe’s character arc is about changing the fundamental thing that made her so mean in the first place. It’s about learning that she is not at all exceptional, and that she is just like anyone else. And that she’ll prefer it that way.

[eddo-tensei]

It's easy to say that someone just wants power when you either don't know or refuse to understand that someone. It can be easy to say that everyone who wants power is just some evil creature because every day, we see news about people in power being bad, whether it's politicians attempting to undermine the rights of others or some billionaire douche fucking up social media. The thing is that even though it's easy to say that anyone who tries to get power is always evil, it's not always true. Do all people deserve the power they get? No, or at least, they don't always deserve the amount of power they get. However, people don't always seek power for the sake of power.

Chloe sought power not for power itself, but because it comes with something far more important to her: recognition and love. Neither of Chloe's parents really gave her love. Andre only gave her gifts in lieu of actual affection while Audrey refuses to give her any form of affection outright, seemingly on purpose at times. From Chloe's point of view, the only way to get recognition and love is to be like her parents. High-profile people who happen to have power over others.

There's an argument that could be made about how this could make Chloe a good villain, but the issue comes in how the show presents it. It goes out of its way to demonize Chloe for seeking power through malicious means before suddenly doing a 180 and trying to justify the actions of people who also sought power through arguably worse means than what Chloe tried to do. In fact, all of Chloe's worst actions were only possible because she was either enabled or pushed into doing them by at least one of these people.

We know almost nothing about Lila and let's be frank, the show had currently made it impossible to know enough to get a read on her motives, but we know more than enough about Gabriel. Gabriel also sought power and regularly used people as stepping stones towards that power, INCLUDING Chloe. Yet whereas the show demonized Chloe and stated that she deserved nothing at all, the show presented Gabriel stealing power at the last second to get his way as a good thing in the end because he happened to suffer a tragedy and he deserved to get what he wanted. I would like to bear in mind that Gabriel had more or less been the direct catalyst for the majority of conflicts in Miraculous as a whole. Yes, Chloe herself tends to be a major catalyst of conflict as well, but Gabriel is ALWAYS the one who actively escalates them into being dangerous for everyone at large. That was his entire MO as Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth/Monarch. If the show had Gabriel lose in the end, going through that same loss of power that Chloe did, there would not be as many arguments about this as there are now.

Instead, it demonized a girl who only knew power as the solution to her being recognized and loved as some power-seeking monster who hurts everyone around her while it goes out of its way to defend and REWARD a guy who also sought power through far worse means, a guy who spent a majority of his screen time actively making things worse for everyone, purely because he went through a loss himself. I've said this before, but anyone who still tries to argue that Chloe deserved her fate after how the show treated Gabriel at the end should not be taken seriously, especially if they try to argue that she did worse than him.

Here are some thoughts on why I think Chloe's character arc makes perfect sense.

Chloe has a real bad hangup about power. She needs to feel it desperately.

she idolizes Ladybug, who is powerful

she wants a Miraculous to feel powerful

she orders her dad around to feel powerful

she mis-names her butler to feel powerful

she bosses Sabrina around to feel powerful

she is cruel to Marinette to feel powerful

she is dismissive of Chat Noir because he is subservient to Ladybug and therefore weak

When Adrien stands up to Chloe regarding her treatment of Marinette, she perceives this as him ordering her to reign in her power. To restrict her power.

In response, she re-asserts her power: she cuts him out of her life. Similarly, Ladybug denies her a Miraculous, so she turns on Ladybug, again lashing out at someone who has diminished her power. She then aligns herself with someone who promises it to her.

Then Zoe shows up, and Zoe gets attention and affection (and therfore power) from Andre, who isn't even her real father! She's spent more time with their mother, which is another form of power.

S3 through S5 is a systematic stripping away of the thing Chloe holds most dear: power. In response to this, she exerts power every opportunity she gets: she tries to take over the movie, she bosses Adrien around, she revels in her cruelty toward Marinette, she aligns herself with Lila (who Chloe recognizes has the power to fool everyone around them), she is cruel to her sister, and eventually she "leads" a fascist takeover of Paris (of course, not realizing that she's fourth banana in the takeover after Evil Gandalf, Slightly Less Evil Elon Musk, and Lila.

Her character arc makes perfect sense.

Uhh, umm, in this powerpoint presentation I will

[toujoursmiraculous]

Thoughts & Reactions to Sole Crusher & Queen Banana!

Here's my 2 in 1! Starting with Sole Crusher. Loved the tourist feel in the beginning, gives it a very different feel and interesting to see it from Zoe's perspective. Aww Zoe's so nice to Marinette right away. And it's awfully sad that she only ever had one friend. :c I wonder who that friend is? Zoe's right about her family not appreciating the baked goods from the Dupain-Cheng bakery. I don't know if she's fully aware of the history there, or if she just knows how picky her mother and sister are. But it was awfully sweet of her to give them to the tour guide to give to her family instead. So Zoe learned: in order to survive, she had to put on an act and be somebody she's not, because her family wouldn't accept her being a decent person that cares about others. When asked about her middle school, her response, "I found a cockroach in my locker!" Might not be true, doesn't sound like it's the only thing at all if so, but sadly it was enough for her mom to not question anything.

Chloe's definitely a lot worse now after Miracle Queen. In my opinion, this is us beginning to see how low she's gotten and will continue to get. As Avatar Aang once said, "When we reach our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change." I'll write more on this in a separate post later. Zoe's sure scared to object to anything and be herself. Not even hesitating to act like a brat when around Chloe. If she didn't end up growing up around Chloe, how horrible are her parents??? We know Audrey is pretty bad, but even then if she had a decent dad she'd likely not end up like this. I suppose we'll have to see, but this poor girl. :/ Rose: Can we adopt her? Lol awww. Wonderful of Marinette to know that after only one brief encounter with Zoe, she knows that the Zoe at school isn't really her, and wants to genuinely help. How can anybody hate that about her? I don't get it. If it's because she doesn't do things how you'd like them...Most things in life won't go as you want them, or be taken by others as you may intend them, so you have to appreciate what's there and the intent of others actions. "But my family made me think that to deserve my place, I had to give up on some of my dreams." If Andre's talking about his parents here, as he said "When I was young", then oof this poor man, no wonder he's so timid and such a pushover. If he's referring to Audrey and Chloe... then that's a huge oof because Audrey knew exactly who she was marrying and should've never ended up with him in the first place if she didn't want to be with a director. So Zoe left because she couldn't stand it in New York anymore around her dad and the kids at her school. She hoped that she wouldn't have to act anymore and could just be herself. It really sounds like she needed to act a certain way in order to survive getting bullied, or worse. Dang, she really must not have met Chloe before then, or heard anything about her if she thought living with her mom and sister would be better. But in a way, it is better for her, because she has Marinette and the kids at school now. And she has Andre who's probably a better parent to her than her actual parents. Which is surprising and also not at the same time. "We end up hiding our feelings deep down in here." Okay so he says that with a booklet that has Emilie's face on it held up to his chest. Now, it may just be nothing but him thinking about his director dream. But. It could've also been any other object he held to his heart, it could've been something without a face on it or at least not her face. And Andre did work with Emilie. So I would not be surprised at all if there was something there that this is hinting at. Hmmmm. Also, I guess that's not Tomoe Tsurugi? Even though it's Kagami's model they used. And she's really pretty, too! Maybe something will come from this, or the animators didn't think it through when they added that image. Who knows. Even Chloe's first thought when she's in trouble is to go to Marinette what the heck 😂 When Kaalki teleported into Adrien's room...had Adrien turned around as it

happened he would've seen enough of her room to recognize it. Instead the portal changed and was outdoors. But lol poor Kaalki slamming against the window! All his things getting sucked in and Plagg's cheese was hilarious. XD Chloe's second thought of where to go: Luka's. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 🤔 "This winner and loser thing doesn't exist!" Sad that Chloe thinks this way at all, who even taught her this? x.x Chat Noir: Did somebody start off on the wrong foot today? Marinette: I'm not finished! Chat Noir: Huh? LOL I laughed so hard at this moment. Did she forget who she is at the moment because even Chat's like what "I will always support you!" AWWWWWW what a good friend! And I think by helping Zoe become stronger, she'll in turn help Chloe be a better person too. But I'll talk about this again later. Poor Sabrina in this episode, my goodness. She works in a tiny closet and has to run along the limo. Chloe's seriously getting awful. Zoe's charm is the cutest one so far! So pretty. Ivan giving Zoe a hug was the cutest thing ever. Like, I don't ship them, but this shouldn't have anything to do with it. He and the rest of the kids care about her and respect her for being open and honest with her struggles, and want to be there for her. It's so wholesome. 😭 I find it interesting that even Audrey in this episode doesn't always know how to react to Chloe. xD But thank you Andre for caring enough about her to keep her in Paris and trying to keep some peace between the two. "For the first time in my life, I feel at home." 😭😭😭😭😭 Just imagine for a minute if Marinette didn't bother to help Zoe, believed how she acted at school rather than when she met her, and didn't tell the other kids about what was going on. Everything for her would be so drastically different. All because Marinette showed some kindness. Now onto Queen Banana. Well poor Marinette can't help but faceplant on the news. xD I can just tell what Alya leaned into say "You okay, girl?" and Marinette mumbling under the cape, "that's what the news is going to see of me, aren't they?" "Afraid so." "groan" Ah okay, Thomas was an alumni of the school. Cool. Poor Andre, he's just doing what Zoe suggested of him and not give up his dream of directing! I wonder if being around Luka and Juleka made Zoe want to put that pink streak in her hair. xD I want Luka and Zoe to be really good friends, that'd be so cool. Chloe being really awful some more. To everybody. I've noticed a pattern and I think I have her figured out pretty well. I'll be writing a in-depth post about her soon! She's making them change the entire movie just for her. xPP I said to my sister, "as soon as she leaves they should just film their original ideas." They do, thank goodness. xD I got so happy that we get an Adrienette scene in this ep! And then I saw he's locked in a cage, willingly, smiling at Marinette while the door shuts and I just burst out laughing. He's not even nervous he's locked in a cage, suspended in the air! Booooooy must like Marinette a lot! "Now let's take care of Adrien and get him out of that cage." OMG thank you, Marinette. While the image of him is comical, it's making me so uncomfortable that someone's up there like that and that someone also being terrified of being locked up in such a small space. Also, how long do you think Adrien would've stayed up there had Marinette not said something? Oh? What a change of pace, when Adrien goes to try to make things better for everyone, he screws it up pretty badly to be what really drives Chloe to get akumatized. She may have cooled off enough on her own as she tells Adrien "I'm fine." ...until he suggests apologizing to everyone. "You promised to stop being rude to everyone. And I told you that we couldn't be friends otherwise." OOF. Okay so her reaction to this really goes into the territory I want to talk about in my upcoming post about Chloe. "Banana BOOM BOOM!" lololol it sounds so funny in German dub xDD Marinette instantly pulling Zoe away from the attack x33 Ladybug's spin move with Chat Noir XD

it's like what's happening we're fighting an akuma not dancing This entire akuma feels like a Donkey Kong game and I love it. Those games are my childhood. Ooof Ladybug needs to be more careful with her Lucky Charms, they can sometimes be massive! Like that giant doughnut in Weredad. I seriously legit thought that the Gorilla was Gorilla, Adrien's bodyguard before the episode aired. XD The best heroes in this show tend to be the ones that have the most self-doubt, have you noticed? Ladybug, Carapace, and Vesperia all expressed serious doubt in themselves being a superhero, but when they suit up they're fierce! Like they were born to be a hero. Don't worry about Chat kissing Vesperia's hand. That's just the way he is, it's not in a flirting way. c: I remember when people freaked out about Rena Rouge and Chat Noir. It's the same as that, nothing more. "Or I'll turn her into baby mush!" LOL Chloe threatening to turn Ladybug into baby food hahaha that sounds so outrageous and weird that it's funny. And yet in this situation, would be actually possible so it's quite disturbing....hm. Dang, Hawk Moth trying to reakumatize her immediately. You go Zoe, speak up for yourself! And good on Andre for putting his foot down about Zoe too. "You may hate me, but I love you. And I'll always love you even if the whole world hates you." OKAY, THAT WAS REALLY BEAUTIFUL. Including the way she convinced Chloe to take the charm. Marinette's literally in hearing range of Adrien as she's talking to Tikki LOL she's like 5-6 feet away maybe? But that's okay, he probably would think nothing of it if he heard Marinette talking lol. I really like Zoe's character, I think she makes a wonderful addition to the show and that her character is extremely important. ;) Again I'll talk about it in my upcoming post! I've really noticed a lot of things when it comes to Chloe that I look forward to sharing my thoughts on sometime early this week. I really don't think things are as clear cut as a lot of people seem to think about her.

[dreamwreaver]

You know, I was gonna sit back and enjoy the takedown of this take by the wonderful @anxresi but they deserve a break, so I'm gonna handle it.

Season 2 provided plenty of in universe reasons for Chloe to have the potential to be a hero. Yes she wanted the attention, but that craving for admiration and love comes from a mother who never gave it to her. Audrey couldn't even remember her own child's name until Marinette tried (in good faith but the worst way possible) to get them to bond over the fact that they're both "terrible" people.

Chloe's tendency to look down on those who are beneath her socially comes from BOTH her parents. Audrey who is just the worst, and Andre who consistently used his status as Mayor to do whatever he felt like without really listening to the people that got him there. And when for 14 years that's all you've ever known it's a hardwiring that's hard to break from.

Ladybug inspires her to be a better person, but one 14 year old should not be responsible for the betterment of another. Even still, Chloe tries, and the importance of a magical girl genre is TRYING. It also doesn't help that Astruc's argument of Chloe always regressing to her normal attitude is undercut by the fact that at least up through season 3 practically every non two parter episode is self contained. Without explicit references to something that happened earlier you have no way of telling which point in the timeline Chloe's behavior falls.

I think most fans of Chloe's problem with the way things have panned out isn't necessarily her being corrupted, it's how lazily we got it delivered to us. A corruption arc needs time and focus dedicated to it, and we got one episode focused on Chloe being targeted before the finale. Not to mention the fact that the show's thesis of "Marinette needs to learn a lesson every episode" completely undercuts Chloe allegedly choosing the darker path because the narrative went out of its way to show that Marinette was making the wrong choice by letting her feelings for adrien and worry over Kagami stealing adrien from her caused her to make the wrong choice when it should have been Chloe.

Not to mention, Chloe was in a rock and a hard place. You have the magical villain telling you your parents will remain a monster but if you join him they'll be safe. Ladybug and Chat Noir and even Ryuuko weren't doing much to beat them, and even if they had Hawkmoth approached Chloe at her lowest point. Y'know, the narrative point where most people make bad choices? We can see when she's defeated how much it hurts, and what hurts isn't losing the power of queen bee, it's losing pollen, one of the few friends she has.

Seasons 4 and 5 don't help as now the narrative pushes Chloe 2.0 on us with none of the baggage or interesting aspects a character who isn't in the background should have, who is instantly loved by everyone to the point of warping people's personalities around her, and every episode that features her as more than a bg character goes out of its way to shit on Chloe and turn her from a mean girl who was a hurt child crying out for love to a legit sociopath who does things way worse than our s1 baseline for how low she sinks. Now riddle me this; we didn't have enough time to show Chloe being preyed upon for her downfall, but we have plenty of episodes to spare just to shit on Chloe and have the narrative tell us how we should feel about her backstory.

Meanwhile the guy who betrayed ladybug way worse than Chloe ever did and the literal main villain who by the end of season 5 was shown to have gone completely insane with his desire for power, are allowed to be or at least be remembered as heroes. Let's remember; Felix pretended to be adrien and handed over every other miraculous from Ladybug's yoyo for the peacock jewel, created a sentimonster for the express purpose of committing genocide, and drugged ladybug for some trippy play to ask for her help instead of just telling her who the villain was and trying to help her come up with a plan to stop him. Or god forbid, at the bare minimum APOLOGIZE.

And if you want someone who doesn't want to change, doesn't care to be better, and is genuinely devoid of any good qualities: Lila or whatever name she's got this week is right there. As a matter of fact she only gets worse as the seasons progress. We never expected Lila to get better from her first introduction when she refused Ladybug's apology. I'm not saying she needed to, but she said "you're right, we'll never be friends" instead of, "thank you for apologizing, but I don't accept it"

One line indicates acknowledgement that one has done wrong but isn't entitled to forgiveness. The other is basically saying we are forever enemies and nothing will change that. Lila has never had any inclination to change and when caught just assumes a new identity. That's the villain we love to hate, not the girl who was shown to want to be better but wasn't allowed to be because the creator of the show forced the writers to walk it all back. And do not give me the "it was planned from the start" excuse, just because it was planned doesn't mean it works. If anything, it shows a refusal to allow organic changes in the writing process or take into account that the mean girl with a heart of gold archetype is a staple favorite character in magical girl shows, which miraculous rips off the most besides regular superheroes.

Tbh; I wouldn't have been mad at Chloe's corruption if they'd dedicated time and effort to it. But they didn't. And the fact that TA continues to shit on the depiction of neglect and abandonment Chloe represents by saying it wasn't abuse, her parents were abused by her, bullies can never be heroes, and that her being sent off to live with the person who treats her the worst while her equally culpable father gets to wash his hands of the kid HE fucked up while starting over with the daughter that ISNT EVEN HIS meanwhile the guy who terrorized paris for love gets a fucking statue in his honor is just bad writing. It's a spit in the face of the fandom.

Why do Miraculous fans think that Thomas Astruc hate Chloe?? Because he didn’t have her a redemption arc she didn’t even need?

It’s not hating a character to make them an antagonist, or just a bad person. People love Disney vilains for a reason. And Thomas created Chloe to be a mean girl.

Season 3 showed that her character had more depth, that bad things happened to her when she was little, and that she has a softer side… But that doesn’t mean Chloe should suddenly become a good person. It just means that Chloe’s character is complex.

But the show made it clear until now why Chloe couldn’t get a redemption arc: she doesn’t want to change. She wants to keep her privileges and treat everyone like they were inferior to her. She can’t possibly get a redemption arc now.

[coolkat122]

Male:Mal x Reader

I hope that you guys enjoy this lovely Evil genderbent Mal that is brought to you by DragonStar sponsored by wickedisheretostay.org which was made possible by viewers like you 👍.

Fair warning I don't know much of descendants lore, I've only seen the movies and the mini series so some shit might (will) be wrong so yeah.

Ben: Bentlie

Audrey: Andre

Chad: Cindy 

Jane: James

Lonnie: Louie? (Might change it)

Carlos: Carla 

Jay: Jen 

Evie: Evan

Mal: Mal (yes still)

If you have better ones please let me know and I'll  change it to them instead.

__________ 

Much like Princess Bentlie you too believed that the children in Isle of the Lost deserve a chance to prove that they can be good unlike their parents so you were all for it when she talked her parents into the idea but of course they wanted to start it with a few at first (babysteps).

Once everything was set up they brought the teens to Auradon, you stood within the crowd to watch as they arrived and "stepped"  out of the limo, two girls were fighting over something which you weren’t too focused on youreyes were on the tall purple hair boy. His eyes quickly scan through the crowd which included you before landing on Bentlie as she approached him with Andre by her side.

You couldn't hear them but from what you could tell the boy was faking the smile on his face as they talked. After a few seconds Bentlie lead them out of sight into the school dorms not seeing a reason to stick around you left.

~The Next Day~

You had heard about the mishap at the museum and couldn’t help but think that it was the villain kids, the timing of it was just too weird but you didn't want to say anything because you had no proof and you could be wrong so instead you just decided to keep your eyes on them for any strange behavior. 

So far they weren’t doing much Jen was trying out for the girls sport team, Carla was learning that not every furry creature wants to eat him, Evan was getting suckered into doing Cindy's home work and Mal looks like he's just been doing normal stuff.... nothing really out of the ordinary.

You frowned because it just didn't seem right out of all of them he's the only one behaving, it's almost too behaved. Your frown deepened. 'Just what's going on here? Are they honestly trying to be good and I'm just assuming things? Or are suspicions justified? I do believe that the villains kids can be more than just a next generation of their parents but the museum incident just seems like more than a coincidence' You sighed.

"God let me be wrong" You said out loud to no one (that you know of anyway), soon he got up from the bench and left. Before you could follow after but James fell from putting up the signs for Bentlie's crowning and leaded on you, quite roughly too.

"Ow f-" You were cut off when James got up and apologize over and over repeatedly while carefully helping you up. Once up you rubbed your bruised arm and cringedfrom the sore feeling from your body.

"It's fine James it was an accident" You looked him over to see if he was alright, for the most part he looked fine just a slight bruise on the side of his face, ruffled hair and a few specks dirt on his clothes.

"Looks like you've got a bruise on the side of your face tho" He touched it and winch.

"Ouch, I think I should go get it taken care of or at least find a way to hide before my dad finds out..." He said as he placed a hand to cover it."Would you like me to get you somethingfor your arm?" You shook your head.

"No I'm good thanks anyway" He nodded before quickly rushing off to do something about the bruise while I sighed out of disappointment for losing Mal.

~P.O.V Shift~

I had gone back to my room after no luck of finding Mal. I share the room with Repunzel's kid who wasn't here at the moment probably because she's helping decorate the crowning party, she is a lovely girl and quite artsy, and very kind her only flaw her long and I mean long hair that gets everywhere other than that I am happy that I got her to room with rather than Cindy.  

I sat down on my bed just as Ruby steps in and looks to me concernly. "____ are you okay?" I frowned a bit unaware that I looked trouble enough for her to be concerned in the first place. 

"Yeah why do you ask?" She stepped forward and was about to sit down next to me but I quickly shouted not wanting her to get paint on my bed.

"Wait!" I  placed my hands to block as she looked at me worriedly.

"What's wrong?" She asked as she stepped back.

"Your usually always covered in paint, I don’t want it on my bed covers" She blinked before calming down. "You know for like the fifth time this week" I said remembering how annoyed I was with having to clean it up, sure she offered but I was afraid she might make it worse.

"Oh is that it?" She moved the hand that was behind her back and rubbed her blonde hair. "Uh sorry I wasn't thinking" Now much calmer she sat on her bed facing me. "Well anyway, I was asking because you just seem troubled so what's eating at you?" 

"Nothings eating at me, I'm completely fine" I lied which I didn’t like doing especially to Ruby but I didn't want to tell her that I suspect that the Vkids broke into the museum, I just don't want to seem like I don't believe in them which I do.... and I don't at the same time well more like I'm just cautious. I don't want to believe in them too much that I'm blinded to facts.

"Are you sure? if you want to tell me anything you can" I nodded.

"I know but at the moment I have nothing..... you know I feel tired so I'mgoing to sleep early okay?" She slowly nodded and smiled.

"Of course" And with that I laid down and slowly started to fall asleep but not before hearing Ruby leave  after that it was pretty much la-la land.

When I finally woke up the next morning I noticed that my covers were changed and there was a note taped to it, I picked it up and read it hoping it would explain why my covers were different from what I went to sleep in.

Hey _____ when I got back I was covered in paint because of a little mishap earlier and I accidentally got paint on your covers.... I know that it’s probably the.. 4th time this week? But I wasn't paying attention to where I was about to sit and well you get the pic but don't worry your bestie is going to clean it up and make it good as new  ;p 

P.S you are a heavy sleeper :I 

My eye twitched as I read the letter and was holding back the scream of frustration but I didn't want to alert anyone and have them wonder why I was screaming for seemingly no reason. With a sigh I got up from my bed and noticed the paint that covered our floor. "Seriously Ruby?"

I shook my head and got dressed once I was done I went to class and continued on with observing the Vkids, it has usual Mal was well behaved no suspicious behavior other than the fact that he's well behaved when class was over I went back to follow in between classes until lunch. 

And still nothing as I sat there watching him and his friends until Evan noticed and pointed it out so I quickly looked away pretending that I was eating my sandwich. That's when Ruby showed up.

"Hey _____ did you get my note?" She sat down in front of me blocking my view of Mal.

"Yes Ruby I got your note and really you messed them up again? Seriously?" She laughed awkwardly before looking apologetic.

"Yeah,sorry I really wasn’t paying attention I was too busy thinking about why there was this girl with hair covering her face rushing past me which is why I ended up covered in paint in the first place" She explained while I brushed it off, it's nothing new one the girls probably saw a zit and rushed to cover it. The princess were super obsessed with not being caught with one.

After lunch had passed and the rest of our classes were over with I decided to follow him just this once if I still come up empty handed then I'll let it go. 

I followed him into the garden area and into the maze which was stupid but I know this place like the back of my hand before I drifted away from being friends with Bentlie we would play in this like crazy so I came to learn about its in and outs. So I'mconfident enough that I'll be fine.

After awhile we came to a stop and he called me out. "You can stop following me now"

'Shit' I slowly stepped out from where I was hiding as he turned to face me, his green eyes looked me over before making eye contact.

"So are you going to explain why you were following me?" He asked while I quickly thought of a lie.

"I was curious to how you were adjusting" He sighed.

"So we're doing it this way huh?" He flipped through a spell book and before I could do anything veins started wrapping me up tight to the point where I couldn't move an inch.

"Feel like talking now?" I glared but didn't want to give it so I told another lie.

"Alright Pinocchio have it your way" Again he went flipping through the pages and casted another spell.

"Now why are you following me?" With zero control I told him everything and he frowned. "That's it? I thought you knew more" He rubbed the bridge of his nose.

"Why? What more do you have planned? And why did you break into the museum anyway? What's in there that was worth getting sent back to the isle?" I shot question after question and when I was done he smirked. 

"Wouldn't you like to know?" He mocked enjoying the fact of how little I know of his plan. 

"Well it doesn't matter if I know or not heroes always win so just you wait, they'll put a stop to your plans" He chuckled before calming himself.

"Are we thinking about two different heroes here? Cause have you seen these losers?" He pointed in the direction of the school. "They have their heads shoved so far up their asses they won't notice it until it'stoo late and their parents have gone soft from living in la-la land for too long that they won't even be a problem" I did think about it and sure some of them *cough* Cindy *cough* aren't exactly all that dependable but I'm willing to bet that good will triumph over evil like it has so many times before.

"They just might surprise you" I glared as his smirk widen more, taking another step closer he bent down to eye level with me not once breaking eye contact. 

"We'll see about that but in the meantime I can't have you telle-tailing so I need to think of the perfect spell that will keep your mouth shut" He checked his book for the perfect spell carefully reading over each one. "Hmm should I make you a toad? No knowing these idoits one of them might kiss you with 'true love first kiss' Oooo"  He did air quotes before rolling his eyes. "Maybe a rose but then someone might start plucking your petals that would bad I want you around when I win" He made a couple of tsk’ing sounds before his eyes perked up.

"I could turn you into a snowglobe, I really liked my old one back in the isle so having you would be a nice replacement" My eyes widen as I tried to move but as I stated before these veins left absolutely no room for movement.

He readied up the spell and I closed my eyes praying to be saved but as I felt completely different and tiny snowflakes falling on me it was safe to say that no one showed up to save me, no knight in shining armor, no random passersby-er. I opened my eyes and the first thing I saw was giant green orbs with specks of gold in them which were Mal's eyes. 

He moved the globe away from his face and started taunting me. "Well aren't you adorable when you're all tiny and helpless" He laughed darkly.

"You won't get away with this" my voice echoed in the dome as he rolled his eyes.

"Geez it's like a broken record with you, oh well its not like it isn't fun seeing you so hopeful. it only makes me want to win more so I can crush it into oblivion"  He placed me into his school bag. "Get comfortable that globe is going to be your home for the next three days"

The constant shifting due to his walking was extremely uncomfortable but not as much as the darkness of the inside of his bag which made me look into a way out even faster and hoped that my absence will be noticed quickly but I felt like I wasn't getting out anytime soon..........

____________________ 

DONE FINALLY DONE! This took all day to finish and finally I did it.