#chloe bourgeois deserves better

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

Lmao, I think it would’ve been ironic if Chloe did what her father failed to do: become a better person and succeeded in her goals and dreams, without her parent(s) approval or input.

[muggle-born-princess]

(Source)

Meanwhile, Astruc behind his computer desk:

"bUt ShE a ViLlAiN!"

[womanofwords]

Character Reputation Helpline: Chloe Bourgeois

Operator: *gets a call* Character Reputation Helpline, how can I help you? Chloe Bourgeois: *in floods of tears* Literally the entire fandom hates me! What did I do? Operator: Oh, honey, that's terrible. Which fandom are you a part of? State the full name, please. Chloe Bourgeois: Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir. Operator: And your name? Chloe Bourgeois: C-Chloe Bourgeois. Operator: Please hold while I get your file. Until then, here's some soothing jazz music for you to listen to. Narrator: One minute of jazz later . . . Operator: Chloe Bourgeois, are you with me? Chloe Bourgeois: Yes. Operator: I am sorry to inform you that your file has you listed as a hatesink. Chloe Bourgeois: What's a hatesink? Operator: A hatesink is a character that is deliberately written to be so terrible and such an awful character that everyone immediately hates them and dreads what they'll do. It says here that the female lead for the series you feature in is a girl named Marinette Dupain-Cheng. Have you heard of her? Because just so you know, your file says that you bully and antagonize her severely. Chloe Bourgeois: The BAKER GIRL?! THE STUPID BAKER GIRL GETS TO BE THE FEMALE LEAD?! AND NOT ME?!?!?! Operator: I thought as much. Anyway, the writer's notes say that you are meant to show that some characters do not want to become better people and be nice to others because that would mean giving up their privileges. Chloe Bourgeois: What's that supposed to mean? Operator: I'm sorry, honey, but you were never meant to be liked. There's even a setting to reverse or reset positive character development so there's always a realistic antagonist. Chloe Bourgeois: WAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'M A HATED CHARACTER! WHYYYYYYY? Operator: If you want, I can direct you to someone who can represent you. You're listed as a villain so you'll need someone who specializes in villain PR. Chloe Bourgeois: I'M A VILLAIN?!?! Operator: I'm sorry to tell you like this, but yes you are. Her name is Tiffie Starchild, you can find her on Instagram, and I'm sure that she will have a field day with your case. So many different avenues for her to go down. Chloe Bourgeois: *sniffling* Thank you. You've been a big help. Operator: Just doing my job, miss. Is there anything else I can do for you? Chloe Bourgeois: No, that's it. Thank you.

[alwaysnervouswitchprince]

What would you think if Chloe and Audrey heard rumours about the way they were going to be portrayed in Astruc’s new movie, so they went back to Paris in an unsuccessful attempt to stop the movie from being completed? Then an evilized villain (maybe a wishmaker-like villain or maybe even a villain that's unrelated to the butterfly miraculous) caused Chloe and Zoe to switch bodies somehow, and nobody fully understands what's going on, so Zoe (in Chloe's body) is taken by Audrey back to New York, despite Zoe desperately trying to explain things. But Chloe enters a fugue state (heavily due to trauma caused by the neglect of her parents) and genuinely thinks she's Zoe, and is even able to recall many of the things Zoe did due to being in Zoe's body. The class thinks “Zoe's” change in behavior is due to the psychological effects of method acting, since “Zoe” is playing Chloe in Astruc's new movie, but they gradually convince “Zoe” to let them help her relearn how to be “herself” again. Meanwhile, in New York, Zoe is trying to get back to Paris, but when she gets there, “Zoe” thinks she’s there to try to hurt Marinette.

Eventually, after listening to “Chloe”, Marinette starts to suspect that “Chloe” might be telling the truth, so she decides that she must test “Chloe” and “Zoe”. She fakes being in danger to see how they react. “Zoe” reacts slightly faster than “Chloe”, so Marinette comes to the conclusion that “Chloe” is lying and that “Chloe” has an evil and manipulative plan. Marinette thinks that “Chloe” must have picked up a few tricks from Lila, because she thinks no version of Chloe could possibly react faster than Zoe when it comes to protecting her. So Audrey takes “Zoe” back to New York again to “correct” her after “Zoe” fails to convince anyone of the truth.

10 years later, “Zoe” gets seriously injured after fighting a villain when Ladybug isn’t around, which causes “Zoe” to not have long to live. Then Ladybug accidentally stumbles upon the truth about “Zoe” while trying to help “Zoe” using magical powers. Ladybug decides that the moral thing to do is to switch Chloe and Zoe back to their original bodies. Once Zoe gets her body back, she blames Chloe for her impending death and for leaving her with 10 years of loneliness, while Chloe got off scot-free. When Lila gets defeated, Zoe steals the Butterfly Miraculous to get her hands on Ladybug and Catnoir’s miraculouses, hoping to “make things right”. Zoe gets defeated by the heroes (including Chloe, who has gotten her memories back) and Ladybug manages to cure Zoe’s injuries.

Holly shit dude that's sick! I love AUs where things get mixed up and change. I love Chloe, she's my favourite and she really has potential as we saw until asstruc™ go on an ruined it but it really ended up more of a tragedy like someone else said in a post, by Marinette forcing Chloe out of her life where she plays a villain Chloe has to be the victim of her story and i think that's really poetic. I love when "villains" are only villains for other people while having their reasons and trauma etc. which the "main characters" can't see or understand.

This au can also be interpreted as Chloe when given a chance with people not treating her like devil incarnate can be better and i think that just shows how hypocritical everyone else is. It can also be a way for Zoe to understand why change is so hard for Chloe rather than her actually hating her sister. Even when she's being Zoe and being nice as long as people see Chloe's face they call her all kinds of things behind her back and to her face. I think she might start hating the "good people of Paris" rather than blaming Chloe because when she first came to Paris everyone was nice without even knowing anything about her, only hesitating when they heard her sister is Chloe, even then the immediate though they had was "she's actually secretly nice but Chloe is what's wrong" when it was Zoe acting how she did whenever she was around people before coming to Paris, sure that's an act but Chloe isn't the one who made her start doing that, it was Zoe herself who deals with her trauma caused by their mother and people around her just like how Chloe is determined to be like their mother so she loves her own daughter, it's literally the same trauma but she has no one who teach her what's wrong or right, only thing nice she knows is her dad drowning her with gifts not taking care of her, and only people who might've been helpful (hotel staff) she can't possibly listen to because she's conditioned to belittle and hate them since birth.

It'd be cool if Chloe and Zoe worked together against the people who would rather send Chloe to hell before they can even think about her not actually being a villain and more of a victim of abuse and not having a parent figure that isn't abusive or only spoils her to the point she doesn't know what being loved means other than having money and gifts.

They could even do the whole stealing miraculous thing but being more of a vigilante duo rather than villains but Ladybug still want to get the miraculous back and seeing the sisters more of a villain while the people of Paris slowly warms up to them since they're mostly helping people in a different more emotional way while researching a way to switch back to their own bodies.

I can see Marinette and at first Chat Noir alongside with Alya and most of Paris hating them seeing them as Hawk Moth 3.0 but slowly seeing that they're not evil (probably except Marinette at first until maybe they found out the truth or thinking this was a trap to gain trust so they can take over the world or something because she's also traumatized and have trust issues alongside paranoia)

Eventually as the sisters use miraculous to help people rather than villainy people start to trust them and they continue to try finding a way to turn back. They also try people to give Chloe (Zoe) a chance while Chloe as Zoe starts to get better and heal without all the drama and hypocrisy from Parisians especially her classmates since she has to go to Zoe's class for now and is away from people who hate her more than others.

[crowzenn-murders]

Doodles of Chloe and Luka cuz im obsessing rn only them tho i need fic recs pleaseeeee

[miraculouscriticismshub]

It's honestly awful what happened to her. I know she isn't a good person but nobody deserves to be disowned by their parents especially when their the reason why Chloe is like that .

Whats upsetting me more is the comments under this post .

[xwonderlandresidentx]

The mental gymnastics these people will do to defend a child abuser is downright astonishing

[anxresi]

They're absolutely right...

...It's the writers that deserve the lion's share of the backlash, for poor, innocent, boring-as-hell Zoe is merely a tool of the oppressor, aka Mr Astruc. What's being oppressed, you may well ask? Well, interesting storylines, proper continuity, two-dimensional personalities... I could go on. Everything that makes a show compulsive and rewarding viewing that Miraculous Ladybug conspicuously and utterly lacks in every department due to his increasingly destructive machinations, basically.

This pink-streaked plot device masquerading as a serious character can (along with another equally pointless individual called 'Soquerline' who was so unmemorable I almost forgot she was ever a thing) exists for one reason and one reason only: to diminish Chloe's relevance and role in the show to the sum of precisely nothing. Well after S5, job done I guess guys. Well done. Well done indeed. (Although apparently not... they're bringing Miss Bourgeois back for more torture in the London 'special'. Guess Tommy Boy just can't keep away from his favorite punching bag, can he?)

The irony is though, having such a super-sweet but dull-as-ditchwater Mary Sue to replace a well-established and multi-layered person such as Chloe actually sends out a seriously awful message. Why? Because if I was a bad kid and saw S1-3 Chloe, I'd think 'what a fascinating redemption arc, I can inspired by that and do better.' But after seeing S4-5 Chloe and what an arguable downgrade as a replacement the incredibly tedious Zoe is, I'd be more like 'well, obviously there's no point in trying to be good, because you'll probably turn into a psychopath overnight with no explanation in the middle of your genuine efforts to improve. And if what the show is presenting to me as the ideal for a teenage girl to be is the waste-of-blank-space that Zoe clearly is... then a life of deliquency sounds more tempting with every passing minute! Now, where did I put my spray can?'

The most shameless aspect to this whole argument though, is by those trying to paint the hapless Zoe as some kind of lesbian icon. Pardon? She got a plot-mandated crush on Marinette in one episode and somehow that makes her insipid and needless presence an asset for the gay community? Somehow a few people have got it into their heads if you 'dare' to make someone non-straight in cartoons these days you deserve a big pat on the back for that 'risk' alone. WRONG. They should also be fleshed-out, complex, necessary characters whose sexuality isn't just define them or deflect from deserved criticism as to what the hell they are doing there if they turn up in the middle of proceedings with no prior explanation. See: The Owl House for how it's done.

And that's all Zoe being gay is... an irrelevant trait Mr Astruc can point to cynically and say ' you're a bigot for disliking her whatever your reasons are, so I'm not listening to you' instead of engaging with the actual argument which is SHE IS NOT AND WAS NEVER NEEDED IN THE SHOW. Everything you required to make Chloe the brilliant character she could've been was RIGHT THERE in the script but you CHOSE to rub it all out and scrawl some hastily scribbled doodle with no personality other than being 'very nice' in her place. A tragedy. The worst case of self-vandalism I've ever seen. No wonder Jeremy Zag wants to start from scratch with his rebooted movies. More power to him, IMHO.

Needless to say, nearly all the above in the quoted post about her father loving her (we haven't met him yet, it's DEFINITELY not Andre Bourgeois, his name ends in 'Lee' for a start) her supposed growth (the only 'growth' she's had is when she turned into that giant golden Chloe after being akumatized) her alleged pansexuality (all in the desperate mind of the OP) her 'abusive' family (I think you'll find Chloe had it FAR WORSE over the course of the show in that regard, so why not idolise her?) is complete bunkum. and to be frank I couldn't compose a much delusional post if I tried. Sometimes I wonder: what planet are some people on to reach such implausible conclusions? I don't understand it, I'll never understand it and quite frankly I feel quite sorry for the arbiters of such risibly deluded takes.

Last but not least though, we have...

Now this I ALSO agree with 1000%. And I know just the place to 'flush' her... ;)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

There was no Redemption or Damnation. Chloe Doesn't Actually Have an Arc at All

Does Chloe have an abandoned redemption arc?

No. Absolutely not. She also doesn't have a “damnation” arc or really any arc at all. She is a font of wasted potential for both redemption and damnation who never gets a true chance at either path. To explain what I mean, I have to first discuss the two types of redemption arcs and also how damnation arcs work. I’ll be doing this by discussing the guy who started the redemption arc trend, Zuko, and why his story doesn’t work for people like Chloe.

The Two Types of Redemption + Some Bonus Damnation

There are two general paths to redemption: redemption through a change in worldview (the easy path) and redemption through a change in self (the hard path).

Redemption through a change in worldview is what happens when you take a character who is a fundamentally good person and give them a messed up worldview, usually through their upbringing. The story will see that worldview challenged, resulting in the character changing how they view the world, but that’s about it. They don’t really have to make major changes to themselves at a fundamental level.

This is Zuko’s path. He’s born in the Fire Nation and raised to think that the Fire Nation is good. He also has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. When he’s included in a war council and told that the army leaders are going to willingly sacrifice Fire Nation troops, he stands up and says that’s wrong. This act results in him getting banished. During his banishment, he gets to see the rest of the world and learn that the Fire Nation is, in fact, NOT good. This ultimately leads to him switching sides because he has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. Who he is and how he acts never really changes.

Chloe is not like Zuko. She is a selfish, egotistical, petty, spoiled brat. For her to be redeemed, she has to accept that fundamental aspects of her character are deeply flawed. This might involve some changes to her worldview, but that’s only a tiny piece of what needs to change and I’m honestly not sure that she really has a messed up worldview. There are multiple instances where it’s clear that she knows that she’s being mean or bad and just doesn’t care.

This brings us to the topic of damnation arcs. For something to be a damnation arc, a person has to be presented with a choice between good and evil and they have to choose evil. Zuko actually has one of these. At the end of the second season of Avatar, Zuko is given the choice to join the good guys or to join his sister and be accepted back into his family.

He chooses his sister.

That’s a damnation arc because Zuko truly had a chance to change sides. The scene would play very differently if Zuko had to choose between staying in exile and joining his sister. Joining his sister would still be the wrong move, but it’s no longer damnation. It’s just doing a bad thing vs doing nothing (though it can be argued to be somewhat damning since Zuko is going against his own morals). Along similar lines, Zuko is redeemed when he chooses to abandon his family to do what’s right even though it costs him everything he wanted: his family, his girlfriend, and his home.

This is where Chloe’s “damnation” and redemption arcs fall apart. There is no point in the series where she’s actively given a choice between good and evil. She only ever makes choices between inaction and evil or inaction and good. Does that make her a good person? Hell no! But it does make the argument that she had an arc fall very flat. She never gets better, but it's hard to say that she gets worse.

Chloe’s Choices: The Good and The Bad

Chloe becomes Queen Bee without anyone saying she was fit for the role. She just finds a miraculous and uses it. The way she uses it is selfish, egotistical, and petty. In other words, it’s just Chloe being Chloe. While the actions she takes are horrible and definitely deserve punishment, they’re in character. She’s not acting worse than normal, she’s just being herself, but with superpowers. If she’d been given the miraculous and been charged to be a hero, then her actions would be damning because she would be choosing to go against her charge. But she’s not. She has no charge.

To really assess if Chloe has potential to change, you have to look at what she does when she’s given the choice to be good and this is where things get messy.

This is how Chloe’s first encounter with her miraculous ends:

Ladybug: I have to get the Miraculous back, Chloé. (in the background, Nadja's van arrives) Chloé: Give me a second chance, please! Nadja: (holding a tablet with Audrey on it) Audrey Bourgeois, tell us live how you feel about what just happened. Audrey: (on the tablet) According to me, Chloé just clearly demonstrated that there is nothing exceptional about her. Cat Noir: (puts a hand on Chloé's shoulder) I know that you did the things you did to impress your mother. Ladybug: Anyone can make mistakes, even a superhero. What matters is how you fix them. I personally made one by losing that Miraculous. Don't make the mistake of not giving it back. Act like a hero. Cat Noir: And show everyone how exceptional you can be. (Chloé hands Ladybug the Miraculous) Ladybug: Thank you. Chloé: (the duo are about to run off) Ladybug? Cat Noir? (the cameraman moves closer) I'm sorry.

Chloe doesn't fight to keep her miraculous. A few quick lines are all it takes for her to hand it over. When Ladybug gives Chloe the chance to act like a hero would, Chloe acts like a hero. The same can be said of every subsequent time when Ladybug gives Chloe the bee miraculous. Every time Chloe is called upon to be Queen Bee, she does the job to the best of her abilities and acts as a functional member of the team. She's not incompetent. She doesn't put the team in danger so that she can be in the spotlight. Heck, the very next time she gets it, Chloe willingly admits that her father’s akumatization was her fault.

Chloé: It— it was me. I hurt my daddy's feelings. Because I want to leave Paris, forever. Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said. Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless. Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé. Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose. Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary. Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?! Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm. Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now. Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to. Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

When Ladybug asks Chloe to be a better person, Chloe is a better person.

This is why I say that Chloe has a perfectly functional view of the world. She knows when she’s doing something wrong and is able to do good when challenged to do so. Even on the civilian side, we see that Chloe is willing to be a little better when given the proper motivation. In Despair Bear, Adrien says he’ll end their friendship and so Chloe actively tries to save that friendship even if she hates every minute of it. Similarly, in Zombiezoo, Chloe sacrifices herself so that Ladybug can win.

Now, none of this is a redemption. It is, at best, the foundation for a redemption. We see that Chloe has the potential to be good when challenged to do so by the right person or circumstance, but she’s not trying to be better outside of those moments when she’s challenged. For her redemption to really start, she has to choose good over evil. She has to start improving when Ladybug isn’t watching or when Adrien isn’t threatening their friendship. For it to be a damnation, she has to choose evil over good.

She is never truly given that choice.

The two big scenes where Chloe gets “worse” are at the end of Queen Wasp and at the end of Hearthunter. However, in both of those scenes, no one gives her a choice to be better even though she’s primed and ready to make that choice.

Queen Wasp: When the Civilian Moment Should Have Happened

At the tail end of Queen Wasp, Marinette has the choice to go to New York with Audrey or stay in Paris. She chooses Paris, but brings Chloe with her to try and repair the relationship between mother and daughter. Here, Marinette gets to really see just how little Audrey cares for Chloe.

In a show where Chloe has a character arc, this should be the moment when she’s given a choice. She’s just spent the whole episode trying to get her mom to love her and it’s gone nowhere. Marinette, our hero, is standing right there, fully capable of saying, “You know what Chloe, your mom sucks and you don't need her validation. I know some people who already think that you're awesome. Come on, let’s get you back home and I’ll call Adrien and Sabrina to meet us there.”

Instead, this is what happens:

Marinette: I think you're wrong. A huge part of your life is here in Paris, too! (she steps aside, showing Chloé and Butler Jean) Audrey: Chlorene? Uh— Chloé? Chloé: (looks at her mother, then at Marinette in a guilty manner, then back at her mom) Why don't you love me, Mom? Audrey: But… Uh— Of course I l-l-love you. Marinette: (groans) You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love. (Audrey and Chloé are furious with Marinette for telling mean things to them.) Chloé and Audrey: (shouting) How dare you⁈ (gasp and look surprised at each other) Marinette: See? You're both much more alike than you think. (walks off; humming)

…our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I’m not saying that Chloe’s poor behavior is Marinette’s fault. Chloe’s choices are her own, but it’s hard to say, “why didn’t she change?” when even Ladybug doesn’t seem to want her to. If no one is actively encouraging Chloe whenever she does better, then it's 1000x harder for her to get better. Fake it til you make it is a huge part of self improvement. Being a better person for validation or selfish reasons often leads to meaningful change and is a legitimate way to start a self-driven redemption arc. (Go watch The Good Place if you want a prime example of this.)

Hearthunter: When the Hero Moment Should Have Happened

Hearthunter and Miracle Queen are supposedly the end of Chloe’s “damnation” arc. The moment where she makes the wrong choice and, to be clear, Chloe does the wrong thing here. Helping Hawkmoth is a bad move and she deserved to face some consequences. However, the choice to help Hawkmoth has the weirdest setup for a “damnation” arc that I’ve ever seen.

In Miraculer, we get this line from Gabriel: all I need is for [Chloe] to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her.

This is also the episode where Chloe rejects an akuma (Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU!), the episode where Lila helps manipulate Chloe into doubting Ladybug, and the episode where Ladybug tell’s Chloe that she’ll never be Queen Bee again, setting up the tension for the season final.

However, even though that tension is set, the thing that turns Chloe to the dark side is… her parents being akumatized. Not some random akuma that Chloe wants to help with. Not Hawkmoth just randomly showing up with the bee. No, we have both of Chloe's parents as the victim of the day and Ladybug actively chooses Ryuuko over Queen Bee, making Chloe the first and only hero who doesn’t get called in when a loved one is in trouble.

All of that leads to this:

Hawk Moth: Chloé Bourgeois, rejections hurt! (Chloé turns to face him) Your talents deserve to be recognized! Ladybug and Cat Noir's reign has gone on long enough. It's time for Paris to have a new queen, and the Queen Bee on my chessboard is you. Chloé: You've akumatized my parents! If I had my Miraculous I'd- Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand) Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it? Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Just like with Queen Wasp, Chloe does the wrong thing. She didn’t have to take the bee. She didn't have to stay selfish, egotistical, and petty. But at the same time, this isn’t really a damning act. It's an act that makes her unsuitable to be Queen Bee again, but she wasn't going to be Queen Bee anyway. She wasn't choosing to be a villain over a hero. She was just choosing to be selfish at a time when she's been actively manipulated and when her parents are in danger.

In other words, this is just Chloe being Chloe. She’s acting the same way she did when she first got her miraculous. If no one is going to believe in her, then why should she be a better person? Why shouldn't she just stay the same? She's arguably no worse than she was in Queen Wasp, the consequences are just greater because of Hawkmoth's plan and the powers he gives her. The only real change is that she no longer idolizes Ladybug so Ladybug no longer has a chance to encourage Chloe to be a better person, but Ladybug never did that anyway, so what does it really matter?

Once again, none of this is to blame Marinette. She doesn't have to try and make her bully a better person. That's a huge ask. But with no one actively trying to make Chloe better even when she shows that she can be better when given the right motivation, it's silly to say that Chloe had a damnation arc or really any arc at all. She ended where she started and, if that's all they wanted to do with her, then they should have just left her as a one-dimensional mean girl instead of making her one of the most developed characters in this bloated mess of a show.

Personally, I would have liked to see a redemption arc because I enjoy morally grey characters and it would have been nice to have someone on the team who wasn't a kind, sweet, goody-goody (for a team with 18 freaking members, there's really no moral diversity, which is boring). It also would have stopped Chloe and Lila filling the same basic role for 3 seasons, which was stupid. (Why do you think Lila showed up so little? It's because Chloe could do almost everything she could do and do it better.) Second choice would be don't develop Chloe, leave her as a petty mean girl and give her focused screen time to Nino and Adrien. Their relationship is barely a thing and that's disappointing considering its strong setup. Cutting Lila and giving Chloe a true damnation arc would have also been far more satisfying.

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

One thing that really does bother me a lot about season 4&5 Chloe is that…she doesn’t even show genuine love or interest in anything anymore. She’s just always having this “better than everyone” attitude about everything. Yes she did this in other seasons, but it just feels completely different now. It doesn’t even feel enjoyable to watch anymore, she’s not even that character that “you love to hate” anymore, she doesn’t even feel like Chloe anymore. She’s not even a bully with redeemable qualities anymore, she’s just this one-dimensional evil shell, just so people won’t feel sorry for her. It’s OOC, it’s stupid, it’s just…ugh.

And if anyone’s gonna to dare show up and say:

“WELL THATS THE POINT DUH!”

No…it’s not.

Because it’s the way you write it. Don’t you see? It doesn’t even FEEL like she had this “backwards development” Thomas claims he was giving her, she just feels ridiculously unrealistically evil now. That’s dumb, even for Miraculous. It’s dumb because…even bad and evil people have a humane side, like Gabriel, Audrey, Andre etc., but apparently Chloe's still worse than all of them combined for some reason.

As mean as she was, I don't imagine seasons 2 and 3 Chloe doing this or behaving like this. Heck, I don't even imagine season 1 Chloe doing this. Thomas has turned one of his most complex characters from the show into a blander version of true her self, all because so people would grow to hate her, just like he does…for some strange and immature reason. Now I’ve pretty much accept that Chloe is a lost cause, but to no real through of her own. In show, the adults in her life failed her, and in real life, her creator failed her. She’s never going to redeem, have proper development or a happy ending as long as that guy is in charge.

I’m not saying that Chloe was never wrong nor didn’t deserve any punishment, but I don’t blame nor hate her more than them. I never will.

[muggle-born-princess]

To the anon who submitted this, I wanna say I am incredibly sorry for not responding on time.

Secondly, I wanna also say: THANK YOU!

It’s like people forget that Chloe was easily influenced to act a certain way because of the way she grew up. She didn’t one day go “Hm, I’m gonna be a bully and make everyone’s life a miserable hell all because I want to!” 

NO!

She was influenced by it! 

BY HER OWN MOTHER! 

I’m so sick and tired of that guy known as Thomas the Tank  Assclown thinking that children can choose their own personalities in a millisecond! It doesn’t work that way. 

And yet this fucker has the audacity to say kids know his show better than the young adults?!

[crimsoncosmic]

So, apparently, an adult supervillain whose been terrorizing a city for years, rarely actually shows remorse for his actions and is also a neglectful and controlling parent because of the “death” of his wife is “sympathetic” and “redeemable”

but a teenage girl whose a bully because she has an abusive mother who constantly belittled her and can’t even remember her own name that she so desperately wants the approval of and a father who just spoils her to death, who showed remorse for her actions at times and was actually on the road to changing and becoming a better person after becoming a superhero before it was taken all away from her at the last second is “irredeemable” and “absolutely evil”.

Thomas Astruc’s logic is absolutely ridiculous.

[a-flaming-idiot]

They're good kids, I SWEAR!!!

[vennyvenadito]

The Fandom from Twitter scares me

Okay a really hate how Chloe being “racist” is enough for this people to say she is beyond redemption

Like how???

Yeah, be racist is a bad thing obviously but for character bad traits standards this is not the worst crime

At worst she is just ignorant

A lot of bully characters and even characters of her age the have done even worst than her were redeemed, if they can, so she

Also is hypocrite to say her age and trauma doesn’t excuse her but then you excuse Marinette and even Felix for their actions

And I would say it, I think Felix is even worst than Chloe

I’m sorry what???

Look me in the eyes and tell me, the Chloe from season 1 is the same as the 4 and 5 season

Like how???

She was a mean girl but not evil, just mean

And no, the writers didn’t fix her, Chloe suffered flanderization, her characterizations got over the place and acts way to out of character

How can this people say she doesn’t deserve a redemption when the show literally redeems an terrorist, a genocidal, a corrupt mayor and awful parents

If they can be redeem then a school bully also can

And if you still think just because a child is mean they are beyond redemption

Please, don’t have kids 💀

[pagonmoon]

Andre Bourgeois: "I should have done this years ago"

Me: "Oh finally, you're actually gonna become a better parent ( for once ) by not enabling Chloe's actions and teach her from what's right and wrong?"

Andre Bourgeois: "What nonsense are you talking about?"

"I'm a poor but privileged grown white man that's been abused by my stupid teenage daughter that's been using me as an escape goat for her horrible misdeeds"

*Cries with sad yet expensive violin music playing in the background while wiping his tears with a golden tissue*

"Abusive and Neglectful parents do not exist and it's nothing more than a myth, children/teenagers on the other hand are not capable to change no matter what we innocent, lovable and far more capable to change adults do."

"And for that, I will send her to my abusive ex-wife as a lesson for all the wrong things she's done. And that my friend is why I'll be remembered as a good father who will be known in social media to have a great character development by abandoning my heartless child that I raised on my own, to my abusive ex-wife"

Me: '...You have far more potential to become a prisoner than a director..'

[miraculouscriticismshub]

MLB fandom Math be like ......

MLB fandom Maths is calling Adrienette toxic because they dislike Marinette's obsessive behaviour of Adrien and accuse her of stalking but ship Feligami despite how Felix also stalked Kagami and did worse than Marinette by kidnapping her.

MLB fandom Maths is hating on Kagami because she is getting in the way of Adrienette by having feelings for Adrien but is fine with Luka dating Marinette and supporting Luka at the same time.

MLB fandom Maths is saying Chloe doesn't deserve redemption because she never felt remorse or properly apologized for her actions but at the same time, forgive Felix and support his redemption arc despite him doing worse than Chloe and not uttering a single apology or properly repenting for his crimes.

MLB fandom Math is slandering Alya because they think she is a bad friend for believing Lila over Marinette as well as making a few ignorant decisions but go ahead and call Kagami a better friend despite her telling Felix LB's identity without her permission.

MLB fandom Math is attacking and cancelling small creators by accusing them of predator behaviour when they have made a slight mistake but are silent when a big content creator is openly showing predator behaviour.

MLB fandom Math is being quick to call out the toxic behaviour of some Chloe/Felix/Lila stans but staying quiet when some toxic Maribug/Adrichat or Adrienette stans also show signs of aggression, some even go as far as to support their behaviour (e.g what happened to that one Lila fan)

MLB fandom Math is celebrating the fact Chloe gets sent off to live with her abusive mother and is glad that she is written out of the show, justifying their opinion by saying she deserves to be abused by Audrey but if you say the same thing about Felix, they will go mad and call you an abuse apologist

MLB fandom math dislikes Sabrina's redemption because she only betrayed Chloe because she wasn't being benefitted by her friendship with Chloe and was being replaced but go ahead and support Nathalie's redemption when she ALSO betrayed Gabriel because she was also not being benefitted anymore by their partnership.

Disclaimer: These are just common double standards I've seen in the fandom so I thought is important to address this so please stay respectful when commenting :)