#andre bourgeois salt

[pagonmoon]

Andre Bourgeois: "I should have done this years ago"

Me: "Oh finally, you're actually gonna become a better parent ( for once ) by not enabling Chloe's actions and teach her from what's right and wrong?"

Andre Bourgeois: "What nonsense are you talking about?"

"I'm a poor but privileged grown white man that's been abused by my stupid teenage daughter that's been using me as an escape goat for her horrible misdeeds"

*Cries with sad yet expensive violin music playing in the background while wiping his tears with a golden tissue*

"Abusive and Neglectful parents do not exist and it's nothing more than a myth, children/teenagers on the other hand are not capable to change no matter what we innocent, lovable and far more capable to change adults do."

"And for that, I will send her to my abusive ex-wife as a lesson for all the wrong things she's done. And that my friend is why I'll be remembered as a good father who will be known in social media to have a great character development by abandoning my heartless child that I raised on my own, to my abusive ex-wife"

Me: '...You have far more potential to become a prisoner than a director..'

[imthepunchlord]

So, out of curiosity, what's Zoe's set up in the Zodiac Heroes story? Is she still Chloe's half-sister, or are they full siblings? Is she a stepkid, an affair baby, or maybe an orphan/adopted kid the Bourgeois family adopted for good PR and only really picked her specifically because she just happened to look like she could fit in with family (appearance wise)

So, this answer will also extend into the future Rewrite, as Zoe's whole thing is (from what I've heard and gathered) is really vague, confusing, and inconsistent.

But Zoe I'm ultimately going to go with being a stepsister, as, ultimately, it really feels like Audrey and Andre should just straight up be divorced. And Zoe just wants to keep and get along with her stepsister, which is why she joins her stepmom to Paris to connect with this extended family.

I think that's the best solution working off them being sisters, and the messy relationship that is Andre and Audrey, and working off Audrey being gone for so long. Especially as the wife of the mayor of Paris, I would expect the spouse of a big political figure to be more present. So them being divorced just makes sense, and it can work off Andre spoiling Chloe even more to make up for it, plus she's now the remaining precious family member in his life.

I will say, I did consider having Chloe and Zoe being cousins, having Audrey's last name be Lee and Mr Lee is her brother; but wasn't really sold on the idea. I think I'd rather do that for the Couffaines, especially as I did think Jagged was potentially Anarka's younger brother and he just felt younger than her (so canon's choice of making him the dad was so awkward, and from the little I've seen, I don't really like it so I'd rather skip out on that romantic history from Anarka and Jagged, just overhaul it).

And, yeah, recently, adoption came to mind, given what I learned recently on how s5 ends. Only thing, by set up, that can give Zoe a lot of attention and investment plot wise, and this is a character I just don't really have strong feelings for, and I'm not that interested in her at all. I also don't like the outcome of Andre adopting Zoe.

Like, wth ML crew.

I know Mr Lee isn't really brought up much, and we don't know anything about him as a person or parent, but he was established. But you can't just hand wave away his existence so Andre can adopt her. If this is keeping Zoe in Paris, just have her attend school abroad.

And I also call bs on Andre dropping the monster of his own creation for a "better" child. I know Audrey gets a lot of rightful blame for how Chloe turned out, but between the two, I blame Andre more as he's the active parent in her life, and we see he spoils and enables her. To me, he's more at fault for how Chloe came out as he actually raised her. He can't just wash his hands of her and have a different kid. That's not how it works.

Especially when this show confirms over and over again how terrible he is as a person. Honestly, this whole family sucks. Andre should've just ended up in jail for corruption. I don't like this route of him being a victim/the good Bourgeois cause no, he's terrible. He's freaking ending s5 kidnapping a kid. And given his history of parenting, I'm not sure I'm going to like where Zoe ends up.

Anyway, the adoption thing could've been better if Mr Lee didn't exist and Zoe was an orphan and picked for publicity and because she looked like she could fit in, but they didn't plan far enough ahead for that. And I guess decided they liked Andre enough to be officially adopt Zoe?

But that set up does mean she should get a lot of attention for her situation and I am just not invested in her that much.

So, stepsisters it is!

Attending school in Paris for at least a year (for ZH anyway, not for Rewrite as Zoe is not going to stay) and to get a chance to bond with her sister. It just makes the most sense to me given her initial intro, Audrey and Andre's relationship and them being divorced just makes more sense, and you can still get that same sort of drama you expect between the two very suddenly now sisters.

[eddo-tensei]

Collusion spoilers

If you're honestly going to look me straight in the eyes and say that Andre is the "victim" for spoiling Chloe rotten, then congratulations. You've not only shown how you're more willing to attack a spoiled child than the adult who enabled them, but you've shown that you have no qualms defending shitty parenting as long as the story validates your salt. Also, since Gabriel is the one who gave Chloe the police bots for her coup, anyone who's going to defend HIM in the end while saying Chloe is the irredeemable one are only proving my previous points.

"B-BUT CHLOE IS MEAN AND SHE HURT PEOPLE-"

I don't care. Her own actions, as heinous as they may be, doesn't excuse how adults handled her and given that Andre and Gabriel either enabled or even HELPED her become a megalomaniac, saying either of them deserve more sympathy than her is a good indication that nothing you say should be taken seriously. And before you cry about how I'm attacking Andre, he's the mayor. He's not some poor sap. He has power and plenty of privilege to throw around. So, to see him try to play victim for failing to be a parent is nothing short of putrid and anyone who takes him seriously are either desperate to validate their opinions or are legitimately braindead. And NO, him resigning doesn't change that.

[miraculouswolf99]

Why do you think Ms Bustier enabled Chloe? Why do you think a lot of people enabled Chloe? I’m sure they all had their reasons.

I think the adults in Chloe's life all had different reasons for enabling her.

For Bustier, it was mostly because of her toxic view of teaching. Right from the start, we see her prioritizing the bully over the victim when she sends Ivan to the principal rather than Kim. As much as I do love Kim, he was in the wrong in that situation. While it was played off as Bustier trying to teach Chloe about love and forgiveness, she did it in an extremely toxic way. By constantly forcing Chloe's victims to forgive her while never giving Chloe any punishment no matter what she did. One of her worst offenses being when Chloe destroyed the makeup purse Marinette made for Bustier's birthday, and she had the gall to say that she would think of both Marinette and Chloe when she would look at it.

For Damocles, he enabled her out of fear. For someone who had tried to be his own version of a hero by being The Owl, he was really a big coward. He would bend to Chloe's will because she would always threaten to call her father. He never took into account that Andre doing anything to the school just to please his daughter would be an extreme abuse of his power as mayor. He simply was too much of a coward to think beyond the threat. His worst offense being when Chloe had called the fire department to get out of Marinette's father's cooking lesson, everyone knew she did it, and yet he punished the entire school EXCEPT for Chloe.

And for her father, it started off as coming from a place of love. He was trying to make up for how Audrey was not around. He was trying to show enough love that two parents would have rather than just one. But as Chloe grew up and got more demanding, it simply became him not having a backbone. Which only got worse when Audrey returned and the threat became Chloe leaving with her mother back to New York. So, he would do even more to please her so that she wouldn't leave him. There are almost too many things he did to say which would be his worst offense, but I would have to say it would be threatening Damocles to keep Chloe and Lila in school despite the proof given that Chloe sabotaged the dreams of her classmates while also denying Damocles's request to have the career forms returned so that the students could turn in the ones they actually filled out.

[nerd-chocolate]

Zoé Lee isn’t a parasite as much as you think she is.

Tw- Season 5 leaks Spoilers

Zoé didn’t replace Chloé’s life or ruin it rather she made her own life and choices, having her personality than taking over Chloé’s. Zoé and Chloé are very much different than what people give Zoé and to some degree Chloé as well. Because that implies that you rather change Chloé’s personality entirely rather than take the traits she has already but have a redemption along with it.

Zoé’s Personality v.s. Chloé’s Personality

Zoé is kind and nice, shy except to the people she comfortable with, loves acting, has a different dynamic with characters that Chloé would have like Mylene, Alya, Nathaniel, Marc, their own mother even, and etc if Chloé did have a redemption arc. Zoé is a tomboy, doesn’t really care about fashion when you think about, and doesn’t have that much confidence in herself.

While Chloé is very confident, girly, loves fashions, also has different dynamics with different characters, isn’t shy like at all. She also bossy and sassy, all the things that make Chloé well Chloé. And that not even all of it for both of these characters that I didn’t mention.

What the Wasp motifs represents in Vesperia’s design and Name

I know people are going to say wasps are parasites and while that is true for most, some aren’t and Zoé definitely isn’t one. Wasp symbolism evolution, to take action, progress, development, goal oriented , and etc. And guess what, Zoé does development and takes action to goals she set on to do. If anything the wasp is supposed to symbolize how confident she becoming and becoming the person she wants to be. She isn’t a parasite, she a apex predator just like a wasp.

Chloé ruin her own life not Zoé

Yes, you heard me correctly. Chloé was the one to make the choices in her life that let to her down and it started in season 3 finale, where she try to steal the miracle box. Chloé always wanted power and be seen as much more to her mother. Are one of those bad motives? No but the way she goes about it is wrong however. She only became a superhero so she can feel powerful than others, and didn’t try to improve her own life and how she acts towards others especially Sabrina. If anything, the bee miraculous made her worse and taking it from her was the best option. Couldn’t the writers depicted her growing and getting a redemption arc without the bee miraculous? Yes but they didn’t because well their stupid.

Regarding the season 5 leaks

Andre is a coward and it neither girls fault for him making this decision instead of taking both Chloé and Zoé from Audrey but he didn’t do that. But the smart solution is having Mr.Lee come and having him met Chloé and treated both her and Zoé as equals.

Well, that is all I have to say so bye!

[pagonmoon]

The ironic thing about ML is that they write the adults who wronged their own children ( Jagged Stone, Andre Bourgeois and Gabriel Agreste ) as the 'victims' ( in JS case, is his fight with his ex-wife ) and they somehow got 'redemption arcs' without any kind of effort to see that they have done something wrong and never seems to receive any consequences whatsoever.

This show could've just been targeted for incompetent 'parents' who want to feel like victims, so they won't be blamed for the wrong things they've done to save their own pride and ego.

"AnDrE iS a GoOd FaThEr!"

Newsflash: Disowning your child all because they're a brat that you refuse to discipline and help them, and forcing them to live with an abusive parent or family member, which FYI, she literally calls her own daughter "a loser" in the end, isn't good parenting.

Oh and to any Chloe haters that think this is karma for all the bullying she did, do it yourself a favor and fuck off from my page now.

Abuse isn't discipline. Get the fuck over it.

[unfortunately-a-miraculous-fan]

Chloe's sudden shift in character because Thomas realized they were making her a little too redeemable is SO funny to me. Like:

Season 1: Chloe is a regular, one-dimensional high school bully.

Season 2: Chloe is actually a bit more of a complex person than that, because nobody is pure evil. But she's still definitely an asshole.

Season 3: Chloe is a child who was neglected by her mother and spoiled by her father, making her into the brat she is today. Marinette as Ladybug shows Chloe a bit of kindness that she might not have fully deserved, and Chloe takes those words to heart, working to be a bit better over time. Progress is slow, but not impossible.

Season 4: Chloe is a cartoonishly evil villain who never gave even half a shit about anybody.

Season 5: Chloe just about ruined Marinette's entire life years before the show even started, and is the reason that Marinette stalks Adrien (See? It wasn't creepy after all. Stalking is justified sometimes!). Just trust me, this was definitely the plan from the very beginning.

[anxresi]

She's already been punished enough...

...By being part of one the worst shows of all time, dufus.

A few points here, in the order of the OP presented their dubious 'case' (though I suspect this isn't actually how they feel and this is a somewhat disingenuous attempt was to provoke a reaction from a lot of others when they sent this to Reddit, in which case... JOB DONE).

1. Bullying, as bad as it can be, is not a jailable offence. especially the relative mild incidences we've seen in the show (up till S4 that is, which we'll get to later) Next.

2. As every right-minded person knows, this is 'New Chloe' e.g Chloe specifically created by Mr Astruc for the S3 finale onwards which bears no relation to 'Old Chloe'. 'Old Chloe' actually had personality, layers, humanity, humour, was a great super-anti-hero, the stirrings of redemption in her.... 'New Chloe' is just an out-and-out psychopath with no depth to her whatsoever apart from to be as ineptly evil as possible and increasingly embarrass herself with every tortuous appearance so Thomas can get his sick jollies, so this doesn't count. Sorry.

3. See: 2. Also, Zoe shouldn't exist... so, there's that. If you want to know why, please see my other posts... as I am saving up all my ire for something far more important as you'll find out below...

4. Now this is the one that REALLY boils my piss. How can I put this politely... Fuck off, you fucking cunt. Chloe's fucking father ENABLED her fucking behavior for fucking years by fucking throwing his money at the fucking problem instead of paying for the fucking psychological help she clearly fucking well needed and fucking IGNORED everything when her fucking mother regularly left Chloe alone, told her she was fucking worthless, didn't bother celebrating her fucking birthdays, forgot her fucking name time and time again...

I could go on. And you're telling me Andre is the FUCKING victim instead of Chloe, this FUCKING corrupt mayor. this FUCKING waste of space, this FUCKING pathetic excuse of a man who as her FUCKING FATHER could've put his FUCKING foot down at any FUCKING time and simply said "No?" What kind of a fucking 'mature' adult is he, anyway?! I suppose the OP also thinks fucking Gabriel deserved his fucking statue as well, in fact they should've hung fucking garlands of flowers from it whilst someone played fucking panpipes and everybody else fucking danced around. Fuck you.

Also worth noting here that Chloe fucking ADORED her father until the exceedingly unwelcome S4 'reboot' where she suddenly saw him as a fucking walking piggy bank (I won't even mention how they purposefully ruined her relations with Adrien, Sabrina, even her own butler... Chloe can't have any happiness in her life. It simply ISN'T ALLOWED).

Then they have the cheek to let his daughter be 'disowned' by him in the S5 finale and banished to London as if he fucking did nothing wrong in facilitating her attitude whilst failing to defend her against her despicable mother's abuse. (Yes, I said ABUSE I know the creator doesn't view it as such, but he's a fucking moron so what can you do?) Bullshit. Complete and utter undiluted diarrhea dripping from a bull's anal sac... that's what this is. I hope I painted an accurate picture for all of you. Sorry if you were eating.

So, it was supposably a happy ending that Andre got to fucking adopt another man's child without any reprecussions for his past actions, as he embarked on his new career as a fucking film director. What? You think that wasn't ENOUGH punishment for Chloe, OP? You think she should go to fucking jail as well, for DARING to be a child victim of incessant abuse, both in-canon and in-writing? I never thought I'd meet a person who's more radicalised in their blind hatred of Chloe than fucking Mr Astruc, but here we are. I tell you, some people on this exploding planet of ours scare me. Legit.

5. See 2 again. This huge disparity in writing between the two Chloes is getting stupid now, and anyone who can't see the contrast between now and then... I really can't help you. Either take off your Chloe-hating goggles to smell the coffee, or go read someone that agrees with you 100% and won't pop your tiny safe-space bubble with indisputable facts. Goodbye.

6. I think Chloe is more 14... but it doesn't really matter. Still a child, still should be treated as one. Which makes Astruc's obsessive loathing of her even more disturbing... and even more so this dude's.

That's it. This was probably an entirely unnecessary pot-pourri of hot topics I've regurgitated before, but as soon as I saw this article (particularly Pic 4) I just had to jump on my soapbox once more to regale the world about the kind of arrant nonsense I see about Chloe sometimes online, particularly regarding the subject of parental abuse and whether her treatment by the show's narrative was justified (SPOILER: It wasn't, and if you disagree I need you to fuck off RIGHT NOW).

Because if people like me don't defend her and the terrible writing she's been subjected to for the last few seasons (at least she's in good company there though), who will?

Not the person who made her, that's for sure. She may be a fictional character but... I get the feel her situation is similar to a lot of other neglected and mistreated kids out there who lash out at others for obvious reasons. And by handling her arc (if you can even call it that) in this inexcusable way... I don't just think the show has just done her a disservice. I think they've outright destroyed her and the hopes of many others watching.

What a great message to send to every youngster who could relate. I hope the makers are proud of themselves. Fucking idiots.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

So I watch the Total Drama fanmade series, Disventure Camp, and I think this line from the character Fiore summed up how Thomas was trying to write Chloe, but failed big time:

"I know from experience. We all have problems, Grett. My mother never loved me, and I know her life would be much better if I never existed. She's told me she thinks I'm a monster. I know she's right, but it still hurts to hear. But you know what? After a while, the hurt starts to hurt less. You start taking ownership of who you are."

Basically, it sounds like Thomas was trying to say "Yes, Chloe is obviously an abused victim, but she needs to learn to take ownership for her own fuck ups and get over it." Which would be an understandable and even a good lesson and redemption arc for Chloe to help her understand that her actions don't excuse her behavior and she can't use her abuse as a clutch to be an asshole. Of course, it would work if he didn't spend time bashing her 24/7.

I hope this isn't me coming off as victim blaming, and if so, I do apologize and wouldn't mind being corrected for my mistake.

P.S. Find the Avatar: The Last Airbender reference

The thing is that later seasons have been somewhat divorced from the idea that Chloe is the product of a troubled childhood. "Derision" had a scene specifically to call out people who claim her mother leaving her led to her becoming a bully, and "Collusion" completely ignored the part Andre played by spoiling his daughter rotten.

Even if the lesson was about how to deal with trauma, the show doesn't really give us an positive example of a character processing their trauma to contrast the negative way Chloe responds to hers.

[pagonmoon]

He and Buck Cluck should have a 'worst cartoon parent ever' competition🏆

The worst thing a father can do is abandon their own child and replace them with someone who they think is better 💔💔💔 .

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

“OMG! CHLOE TREATS HER FATHER SO TERRIBLY!” 😣

And I understand that!

However, Andre’s a grown adult man, not a freaking baby nor a little boy who needs his father’s approval anymore.

He’s the one who brought her into the world, enabled Chloe, spoiled her rotten, GAVE HER he privileges (the same ones Thomas claims she had), and set a bad example for her. HE put himself into the situation, so HE’S the one that has to deal with it. If you ask me, he needs to grow a spine and do his job as a father instead of expecting everyone to pity him for the bad mistakes that HE made lol 😂

[gryficowa]

Let's be honest, Marinette and the rest of the characters put more effort into trashing Chloe herself than into actually helping (And they still have the nerve to say they were trying to help when in reality all they said was "Be nice" and nothing else, it's a strong attempt to avoid making an effort to help, which the person needs)

Yes, I'm pissed, that's why there are so many posts, but seriously, the fandom still believes that the characters tried to help Chloe and it's all her fault because she didn't accept "Help", too bad it wasn't even help (This song fits so well)

Yes, I get annoyed with people in the fandom who say that the characters tried, it's bullshit, they didn't do anything to help her (And that's why they put more effort into destroying her than actually helping her), and empty words are things anyone can say

[eddo-tensei]

The Power of Love according to Season 5 of Miraculous

Something disturbing dawned on me concerning...a lot of the development in Season 5 and it comes down to one thing: Love.

At first, Andre and Felix getting redeemed while Chloe gets sent off to the worst fate the show would allow didn't make a lot of sense. The only thing I could get from the writers was just that "Chloe bad, so everyone else good." It was stupid, but it wasn't insidious. At least, not that insidious at first. And then the finale with Gabriel happened and while it took me a while to process my frustrations with this, something finally clicked. Not only concerning that, but some of the other developments I've seen.

Felix getting another chance to the point of JOINING the heroes in the new universe seemed like nonsense until you look at what happened before that. He was someone who Astruc went out of his way to bury in the narrative and was exclusively causing trouble for everyone up to and including GENOCIDE...until he showed his love to Kagami. Suddenly, his actions are seen as righteous and his backstory of being abused by his father was justification for his actions. You see, he loved Kagami and he also apparently loved Adrien too because they were "the same."

Andre was basically just some corrupt politician who was also a pathetic snob. Then when Zoe came in, we suddenly get all of these humanizing bits about how Chloe totally mistreated him (because apparently, not having the guts to say no to your daughter is mistreatment) and when he divorced Audrey, he gets Zoe because he's someone he could be happy with. A true familial love unlike the one he had with Chloe.

Chloe, meanwhile, doesn't love anyone as far as the writers are concerned. Any genuine connection she might have in either the platonic, familial, or the romantic sense, whether it'd be to Adrien, Sabrina, Zoe or Ladybug, are shown to be either fake or so utterly shallow, it doesn't count as "love." With that, everything she does is absolutely reprehensible and doesn't deserve a shred of forgiveness even if it's clear she's a neglected child who needed help. BUT, because she "doesn't love anyone", she doesn't get redemption and deserves to be sent away with a parent who doesn't love her either. Same with Lila, she doesn't love anyone at all and in fact, just jumps from family to family purely to keep up her manipulations.

Finally, we have Gabriel, who had done nothing but sheltered, belittled, and outright ABUSED Adrien as well as commit a multitude of horrid crimes throughout the series. His actions constantly escalated in awfulness throughout the series, even showing that he doesn't care if he destroys the universe to get what he wants. Yet there was always this trait he possessed. His love for Emilie and that ended up coming to the forefront in the finale. Marinette, who had Gabriel dead to rights, decided at the last moment to try and appeal to his humanity because she knows he loved Emilie and in her mind, that love is enough grounds for her to offer him one chance to step up and help. Then when Gabriel opts to betray Marinette and starts the wish, he tells her at the last moment to try and help Adrien remember all of the times he "tried to be a good father," which is apparently an indicator that he actually LOVED Adrien too. THAT ended up being why Marinette decided to lie about Gabriel by saying he died fighting Monarch and went as far as to try and tell Adrien to remember him as a good man. All because she knew Gabriel "loved" him.

This tells me something distressing. Now, the concept of "Love Redeems" is something I'm not at all against and is in fact common in a lot of stories I like. However, it's what Miraculous does with this concept in Season 5 that angers me. The message of Miraculous ends up giving in its grand finale for the Agreste arc isn't that love can help people find the way to kindness. It's that anything you do can be justified as long as you do it for "love." It doesn't matter if you purposely get a cab driver in trouble, attempt to sabotage a date that your crush is in, put together a project that tries to commercialize air, betray someone to help a terrorist, commit genocide, cause untold amounts of damage to your town and beyond, or even destroy the universe! As long as you love someone, everything you do can be justified. Except when we decide that you don't love ANYONE, then we'll do everything in our power to show that all of your connections don't count as love so you can have the worst punishment we could possibly muster. Regardless of intent, that's how the writers ended up describing the Power of Love in Season Five of Miraculous and that's wretched to me.

[familyagrestefanblog]

But yeah, SURE, the Marinette centric morality of the show "totally didn't teach an entire generation of children and impressionable people an abuse apologia mind set"

Get the fuck out

The mental gymnastics these people will do to defend a child abuser is downright astonishing

[miraculouswolf99]

Were the teachers, even her own father terrified of standing up to Chloe? Which is one of the reasons she treated them as slaves?

When it came to those like Damocles, I think he was afraid of Chloe. After all, despite how it would have been an abuse of his power, the mayor was always used as a threat by Chloe. Saying that he could either cut funding or shut down the school entirely if she did not get what she wanted. Damocles was a pretty big coward, but there was also genuine fear behind his constant "need" to please Chloe.

With Mendeleiev, she had not been afraid of Chloe when she was just the mayor's daughter. She was a strict teacher who ran a rule-following class. She took no nonsense from anyone. But when she was made principal, Chloe had become mayor. So, she was afraid of Chloe since the biggest brat in all of France was the mayor. It would have been foolish and dangerous to not be afraid of her in that state.

With Bustier, I don't think she was ever afraid of Chloe. She was Chloe's biggest enabler. Always scolding Chloe's victims and saying they needed to forgive Chloe in order to teach her love and kindness. But, that obviously only taught Chloe that she could do anything she wanted since Bustier would never punish her.

As for her father, I think it started off as him trying to make up for the fact that Chloe's mother wasn't around. So, he would spoil her and give her everything she wanted to try and compensate for Audrey being in New York for most of Chloe's life. As Chloe got older and saw how much power she had over her father, she took advantage of it. They had a very toxic relationship with Andre always wanting to please Chloe to make up for her mother not being there while Chloe took full advantage of it. There was no fear except that Andre was afraid of Chloe leaving him if he did not make her happy. But, that was not him being afraid of Chloe, just of her leaving him.

[copdog1234]

I'm trying so, so hard to not be a little salty about recent ml episodes cause I really do truly enjoy the show, but there's still just the nitpick of how Thomas treats Chloe like she's the worst person on the show, but then excuses the behavior of Andre Bourgeois, a notable enabler of Chloe's behavior.

I keep thinking I'm over Chloe's murdered redemption arc. I know that ship has long since sailed, but then we have an episode centered around Zoe or a flashback to Marinette's past out of nowhere which kinds just rubs it in our faces that, yeah, Chloe is supposed to be the absolute worst. And it annoys me.

Chloe is a child. An actual child and Andre spoiled her constantly, giving in to all of her (utterly) ridiculous demands no matter how outlandish or terrible it was. He constantly abused his power as mayor of the city. And you want me to believe that he, as Chloe's parent, had no control over any of that? That he did it cause he's blinded by his love? That he's a sympathetic character who is abused by both his wife and his daughter? And that he's actually a "good guy" who can be a "good father" as long as he has a kid who isn't a piece of shit?

No. I refuse. I actively refuse. He should've long since disciplined Chloe, being her only present parent. He had every chance for 14 years to be a good parent and he wasn't. Part of being a parent is teaching right and wrong and he did not. He is the primary reason Chloe is the way she is, not just her mom.

It's just so dumb. Why is the worst person on the planet a 14 year old girl when there is a person around her who actively nurtured her personality? But then that same person is narratively supposed to be the victim? HES AN ADULT WHO HAD A RESPONSIBILITY THAT HE NEGLECTED, HE SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AS SUCH.