#and you think trump is going to think past genocides the us has done are bad let alone apologize for them?

[awkward-teabag]

It also shows an utter lack of care or concern about the various other genocides and violent attacks/cleanses the "probably" guy has said he's going to do and the party backing him is completely on-board and supportive of it.

Saying you won't vote because your options are Bad and Worse shows less commitment than the people who only ever vote for one party regardless of their platform.

Voting is like being the person on the switch in the trolley problem. Even if you walk away to absolve yourself (in your head) of any contribution to the deaths that will follow, people are still going to die and you decided that the many should die for the sake of your morals.

If you want purity in your voting options, you aren't going to find it on a national level and I sure as hell hope you're involved in local politics.

By existing as a citizen in and paying taxes to the imperial core, we automatically hold complicity in imperialist oppression because we are literally footing the bill for it. That is just the basic nature of being born to privilege in systems of oppression in general. We can be disadvantaged and marginalized in every single other consideration and we still have to understand and cope with this, and ensure we leverage it as effectively as possible.

Voting abstinence/sabotage does not absolve us of our responsibility to do everything in our power to lessen harm, but it DOES show that when our personal morals aren't satisfied, we retreat into (imperialist, this time) privilege to 'wash our hands' of the situation and declare it's not our fault and it's not our problem.

[rongzhi]

genuine question, what other option is there other than to vote harris? because third party votes aren’t going to be able to overtake both democrat and republicans out of nowhere and the only other person to vote for is trump, who wants to completely dismantle democracy

I feel like I’ve seen this question get asked all over the place and there is no good answer to satisfy the person asking, because when you say “What other option is there” and then immediately discount the idea of third party voting, then you’ve already made it clear that all your faith is in the popular vote to prevent Trump from attaining office again, which is all that matters to you, presumably.

And before the accusations fly from anyone else, obviously no, I don’t want Trump in office any more than the next guy, however I do not think he will dismantle democracy even if he was because he would be incapable. The idea of project 2025 and Trump as some ultimate ender of democracy is ridiculous if you beat down the hysteria for long enough to think about: first, project 2025 is nothing new, just everything the likes of the Heritage Foundation and conservative lawmakers have already been pushing for years (ie turning the U.S into a Christian theocracy more or less), written out in a way to get liberals dizzy with fear. It is alarming but no more alarming than the slow slide in this direction that I personally think we have already been taking for several decades. And it is insane. People can see that it is insane and extremist and as much as people who are terminally online like to wring their hands about it, I think that the average voter that we don’t hear from is going to be put off by it. It is offputting to liberals/Democrats obviously, it is offputting to centrists, and it is offputting to many moderate conservatives/(mainstream) Republicans. It is fringe and unpopular enough that even Trump himself doesn’t want to be directly tied to the whole thing. Like, I feel like people are not grasping just how fringe true MAGA and extremist Christian Nationalists are in the broad scheme of things. I think the cable news is getting a lot of mileage out of the current election cycle in their usual gleeful way, but for all the 24 hour coverage and charts and panels and panic, I don’t think Trump is going to win. Of course, feel free to come back in a couple months and wag a finger at me if that turns out not to be true.

Either way, by asking “what other option is there?”, I feel you overestimate the power of your individual vote. You are not voting for the president anyway. You are voting for electoral delegates, and to put it broadly, those guys don’t have to listen to you. Or have we all just forgotten about that too?

And I’m not saying “don’t vote”, either. I just think you should be voting for something and not against something else, and I don’t subscribe to the way of thinking that a third party vote is somehow less of a vote (see previous paragraph for the irony). I think voting has its uses, especially in local elections where council members, etc, have the power to more directly effect your life. As to the matter of Harris, look, as I said, if you’re already planning to vote Democrat, I’m not going to persuade you to not do so—I can understand people feeling the need to do so, especially if they live in a swing state, and that’s their prerogative. Of course, I think that should also be done recognising what that means in terms of what foreign policy decisions you are voting for when voting for Harris. And that being the case, I think Harris voters have no ground to turn around votescold (not saying you are doing that, anon, but simply speaking to the broader trend I’ve seen online over the past months), especially toward any single-issue voters voting third party or abstaining over the very serious single issue of supporting genocide. Me personally, I voted uncommitted in the primaries and will likely vote for Jill Stein or Claudia de la Cruz, depending on who gets ballot access in my state, as Cornel West didn't get ballot access.

So, those are my approximate thoughts on the matter and sorry for any typos or unclear thoughts. Probably forgot to say some things, but I don’t think I’m saying anything new, either, and I will not be answering any additional asks about voting or the U.S elections, including the ones that have come in after this one, as it’s not really my wheelhouse. There's been enough discourse on the matter that I feel like at this point, you should know what you're going to do one way or the other.

EDIT: bolded a few areas that some of you could afford to reread!

[hareofhrair]

Please tell me if you're a zionist or not. Because the notes on that post of yours are absolutely rancid regarding Palestinian people and I need to know before I submit your url to the zionist block list

No, I am not a zionist. Israel, like any ethnostate, should not exist and what they are doing to the Palestinians is unquestionably genocide. I fully support Palestine and their right to resist in the face of annihilation.

I am also not anti semetic, for the record, and stand with the many Jewish people who support Palestinian liberation.

I also recognize that while Biden or any president is unlikely to ever stop supporting Israel as it’s too critical to colonial and capitalist action in that area, Trump has voiced support for Israel straight up nuking Gaza.

There is unfortunately very little we can meaningfully do with this particular election for the Palestinian people. Continuing to pressure the democrats may mitigate the damage to a degree, but I’m aware how thin a comfort that is to a country currently being massacred.

But we cannot help ANYONE if our democracy is actively overthrown, as Trump has made extremely, unambiguously clear he intends to do. He has every intention of making himself a Putin style dictator, with the full support of Putin himself, who knows he can use Trump as a puppet, in a manner so like the way we’ve overthrown democratic countries and installed puppet dictators in the past that the dramatic irony would be heavy handed were it fictional. We almost deserve it.

But we are a country full of innocent people the same as any other, who don’t deserve to suffer and die to punish the idea of western imperialism, which the vast majority of have zero control over.

The one tiny bit of control we DO have is through voting.

This is not a situation I’m happy with, but this isn’t a situation of trading Palestinian lives for American ones. This is a situation where saving Palestinian lives isn’t even on the table, and refusing to acknowledge that is only going to make the situation worse. We can either save American lives and hope it doesn’t make the situation in Palestine actively worse. Or we can refuse to do anything like petulant children and watch everyone die.

Vote, and then get back to organizing your community, participating in protests and direct action, volunteering and donating to relief and evacuation funds, and voting in local elections so that we can maybe end up with some better options next time!

And if yall ever get the violent revolution off the ground, I’ll be right behind you! But if you tell me you’re not voting because the only moral action is firebombing a Walmart, you’d better firebomb the goddamn Walmart.

And to the assholes in the notes of that post and talking shit in my asks, for the record, I’m a disabled trans lesbian living in goddamn Louisiana, living on less than $1000 a month. Aside from my friends in Florida, no one is getting the ass end of this garbage government more than us. And for the record, yeah, I’m boycotting McDonald’s, and anything else I can. I’d boycott Starbucks too if there was one within 50 miles. I vote in every local election. I organize as much as I can in rural Louisiana. I take direct action whenever I get the chance, which isn’t often given my lack of mobility and remote location, but I’m willing to bet I’ve done more than most of the assholes in the notes.

Let me put it very plainly, TLDR: if you refuse to vote because you think it doesn’t make a difference or you think it’ll make you complicit in this country’s crimes, you are actively putting your personal comfort and moral purity above the lives of the Palestinian people, as well as above every vulnerable person in this country on top of it. If you want to save Palestine, start by not letting our god damn democracy go up in flames.

[havegaysex]

Why are you telling people to vote for the guy committing genocide :/

because voting is not an endorsement it's harm reduction.

Trump is going to be at best doing the same as Biden and likely much worse for Palestinians and all the countries suffering from American Imperialism than Biden is.

Republicans want to bring back child labor and get rid of social security, medicare, Medicaid. As someone who is surviving on Medicaid and social security I don't want those taken away. The Republican majority house already put a lot of limits on food stamps in this past term and I don't think we'll still have food stamps if we get a republican Congress and a Republican president.

They've made it pretty clear that if they get a republican Congress and a Republican president they're going to enact project 2025 and call a conference of states and try and take our rights back to the days when only wealthy white men had any rights when women and racial minorities had no rights, they want to make it illegal for LGBT+ folks to safely exist in public and get lifesaving healthcare.

In short

Do I support every single thing Biden has done as president?

No.

Do I like him?

Not particularly. But I'm still voting for him because apathy is not a choice.

Do I think that Joe Biden having another term means that we can actually make more progress for labor rights, trans healthcare, abortion access, advancement of the rights and protections for disabled people and so much more?

Yes absolutely.

Do I think that the genocide in Gaza needs to end and the United States needs to stop sending weapons to israel?

Yes, I think that un restricted flow of humanitarian aid into Palestine needs to happen, the siege needs to stop, and the country of Israel and the United States need to be held accountable at an international level. I think that the soldiers of the IDF/IOF need to be held accountable for their war crimes and pillaging that they continuously post evidence of on social medias. I'm trying to put a read more here so ce I've put a few linked articles and quotes from them.

A quote from the article below:

"While our map focuses solely on high school aged youth (age 13-17), some states, such as Oklahoma, Texas, and South Carolina, have considered banning care for transgender people up to 26 years of age. "

I've seen lawmakers in some states try to make it felony punishable by life in prison to get your trans child healthcare to keep them alive because they want to make it illegal for us to exist and a legal for anyone who helps us exist.

some quotes from the article above:

"Led by the long-established Heritage Foundation think tank and fueled by former Trump administration officials, the far-reaching effort is essentially a government-in-waiting for the former president’s second term — or any candidate who aligns with their ideals and can defeat President Joe Biden in 2024. With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers. “We need to flood the zone with conservatives,” said Paul Dans, director of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project and a former Trump administration official who speaks with historical flourish about the undertaking. “This is a clarion call to come to Washington,” he said. “People need to lay down their tools, and step aside from their professional life and say, ‘This is my lifetime moment to serve.’” The unprecedented effort is being orchestrated with dozens of right-flank organizations, many new to Washington, and represents a changed approach from conservatives, who traditionally have sought to limit the federal government by cutting federal taxes and slashing federal spending. Instead, Trump-era conservatives want to gut the “administrative state” from within, by ousting federal employees they believe are standing in the way of the president’s agenda and replacing them with like-minded officials more eager to fulfill a new executive’s approach to governing. The goal is to avoid the pitfalls of Trump’s first years in office, when the Republican president’s team was ill-prepared, his Cabinet nominees had trouble winning Senate confirmation and policies were met with resistance — by lawmakers, government workers and even Trump’s own appointees who refused to bend or break protocol, or in some cases violate laws, to achieve his goals. While many of the Project 2025 proposals are inspired by Trump, they are being echoed by GOP rivals Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy and are gaining prominence among other Republicans. And if Trump wins a second term, the work from the Heritage coalition ensures the president will have the personnel to carry forward his unfinished White House business. “The president Day One will be a wrecking ball for the administrative state,” said Russ Vought, a former Trump administration official involved in the effort who is now president at the conservative Center for Renewing America. Much of the new president’s agenda would be accomplished by reinstating what’s called Schedule F — a Trump-era executive order that would reclassify tens of thousands of the 2 million federal employees as essentially at-will workers who could more easily be fired. Biden had rescinded the executive order upon taking office in 2021, but Trump — and other presidential hopefuls — now vow to reinstate it."

"There’s a “top to bottom overhaul” of the Department of Justice, particularly curbing its independence and ending FBI efforts to combat the spread of misinformation. It calls for stepped-up prosecution of anyone providing or distributing abortion pills by mail."

Personally I think that voting for Joe Biden is better than someone who wants to enact this stuff on day one. It's like they read handmaid's tale and want to make that the reality of this country.

"Chapter by chapter, the pages offer a how-to manual for the next president, similar to one Heritage produced 50 years ago, ahead of the Ronald Reagan administration. Authored by some of today’s most prominent thinkers in the conservative movement, it’s often sprinkled with apocalyptic language." Ronald Reagan is a big reason we have a lot of problems we have today with our economy and with a lot more things. The people that supported Ronald Reagan do not need another term in office.

A quote from the article linked below:

"Trump has given no indication that he would be more sympathetic to Palestinian claims, nor that he would place more pressure on Israel to agree to a ceasefire. “The approach of the United States would be that Israel needs to win this war, it was attacked brutally,” Trump’s ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, describing how Trump would act. Friedman is now a campaign surrogate for Trump."

Personally I think Trump telling Israel to finish the job is indicators that another Trump presidency doesn't mean that weapons would stop being sent to Israel from United States

I fail to see how another term of Donald trump will be any better for the victims of the ongoing genocide in Palestine than President Joe Biden.

i think our system is absolutely messed up and broken but I don't think abstaining from voting is going to actually help.

[leninisms]

I'm not american so this is a genuine question, is there anything that can be done about the 2 party system??? I find it bizarre that people are constantly voting between bigot 1 and bigot 2 every single election but i've also seen people say that voting third party is useless... so what is actually the goal because i doubt kamala harris (if elected) will be any good despite people saying she's more likely to listen to the people

hi, thanks for asking!! i’m a marxist-leninist so this is going to be very long-winded and passionate… sorry<3

i want to start by saying there is absolutely no reason for us to assume kamala will “listen to the people” more than trump will. the masses have been calling for an arms embargo for months and all she’s done is double down on her support of israel and netanyahu.

in the short term, there’s not a ton we can do with regards to fully dismantling the two-party system. unless something profoundly wild happens, the two ruling class candidates will not change between now and november.

i do deeply disagree with the sentiment that voting third party is pointless. i think a lot of americans have a belief that your vote is something you must give, rather than something that a candidate must earn. as eugene v. debs said, “it is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.”

we need to be willing to take the risk of losing certain past social gains in order to send the message that we will not vote for genocide. we will not vote for endless war. we will not vote for more prisons and more cops and more cages along the border. we will not vote for someone who opposes universal healthcare, or who refuses to even acknowledge the death penalty. we will not vote for the party that has dangled the promise of “protecting reproductive rights” over our heads for the last 50 years, without taking any action (even when they could’ve) to actually codify roe.

unfortunately a lot of liberals have already committed to voting blue no matter who. instead of even pretending they won’t vote for kamala harris without her changing any of those policies i just mentioned, they’re essentially surrendering to the will of the democratic party. the same party which has capitulated so far right, their politics echo those of republicans 10 years ago.

the harbinger of change in the u.s. has always been popular, militant social movements. the government will not just give us the things we want. we have to fight for them— we have to prove that it’s important enough we will do serious damage to the system they’re protecting.

this is a very long-winded way of saying that the long-term solution is a working class revolution. people in the u.s. need to get organized and build an alternative. don’t just talk about doing it— actually get up and do it.

[chaoskirin]

Every once in a while, there's a comment on one of my political posts that's like "YEAH YOU'RE VOTING FOR THE PERSON DOING GENOCIDE, IDIOT" and...

I really don't think people realize that Trump would ALSO do genocide, but WORSE. You all do realize that he's not going to get into office and stop the Palestinian genocide, right? In fact, he will very likely send MORE WEAPONS to Israel to make sure they can do genocide even more efficiently. You do realize that, right? And he'll probably fund Russia's war, too. These aren't random hypotheticals. He is signaled very strongly that these are his intentions.

This isn't me "not caring" about people who aren't me. It's that I'm intelligent enough to realize the choice I have is between two people who will commit genocide, and I have a responsibility to pick the person who will cause less harm.

If I have to pick between a person who will kill 10,000 people and a person who will kill 1,000,000 people, who's the better choice? The best option is "neither," but having no president at all isn't a result that can happen in an election. One of them WILL be president.

I don't know how there's some people out there who don't get that, besides knowing there's a HUGE echo chamber that's telling people not to vote. Progressives are NOT immune to those echo chambers, and, in fact, seem to be more susceptible to them because so many are seeking to vote for the perfect candidate.

You have to think for yourself. You have to look at facts. You HAVE TO QUESTION EVERYTHING YOU READ. Think about the consequences of a Trump presidency, not only here, but for the Palestinians and Ukrainians. It would be really easy for you to vote third party, and it would probably feel pretty good at the moment. But then you lose your right to do Surprised Pikachu Face when Trump is elected and makes himself a dictator.

I am not trying to shame you. You gotta stop looking at this as shaming. This is fucking history. This is what has happened before. This isn't a slippery slope fallacy. It is literally in our past, and I'm here telling you it's in our past and what's going to happen if people keep talking exactly like they did in 2016.

Me telling you you're wrong and telling you the consequences of your actions isn't me trying to make you feel bad. It's me trying to tell you to cause less harm in the small way you're able to do that. I'm not guessing here. I'm not making things up to get you to vote how I want you to vote. I cannot stress enough that I have lived through this shit before.

Then I also see a lot of people telling me I should really be posting about what Biden can do for us here to make people feel better about voting for him.

That would also make a lot of people feel good, but that's not what this vote is about. Biden has done a lot of good things, but that literally doesn't matter in this vote. What matters is preventing an absolute catastrophe. The MAIN ISSUE is preventing a catastrophe.

I know some of you don't like what I'm telling you--that this platform is essentially between two unfavorable candidates. But you really are voting for the future of democracy in this country. That's what should inspire you. And if this is dissuading you from voting, well, I don't know what to tell you. Not everything in life gets to have a positive spin to it. Find a reason and vote.

[catgirl-kaiju]

No, sweetiepie. You support Pussy Ass Bitch. Your imbecility and solipsism (you doubtless voted for Shrill Jill the PUTA Shill in 2016) helped PAB steal the White House and you're doing your best to make it happen again. YOU are partially responsible for the death of Roe and every other fascist act committed by our Nazi SCROTUS. YOU, bitch, and all your little online 'leftist' edgelord-wannabe friends. EAT IT. OWN IT. YOU ARE TO BLAME.

okay... so... most of this is incoherent, but i will respond to each claim that i can understand one at a time.

i'm assuming "Shrill Jill" refers to Jill Stein. i did not vote for her in 2016. i voted for Hillary Clinton. I still have some criticisms of Jill Stein's past behavior and stances, and i am skeptical of her viability as a candidate in the current election, but she has been vocal about her wish to stand with the ICJ in prosecuting isreal for their genocide against the Palestinian peoples, more than most candidates in this race can say. also, "Shrill Jill" strikes me as a very misogynistic nickname, seems ethically dubious to use that.

i'm not entirely sure who PAB is supposed to be, but in context, it seems like you mean donald trump? i don't know how you get PAB from that, but i digress. have you actually taken the time to go look at the publically available voting statistics from 2016? bc I have, and those statistics do not reflect the story of people voting 3rd party giving trump an advantage in that election. in fact, i've reviewed the voting statistics of every presidential election so far in the 21st Century, and there has not been a single time i can find that voting 3rd party over one of the big two made a significant enough difference to impact the results for either the dem. or rep. candidates. 3rd party voters are not a large enough group to have any relevance statistically, unfortunately, and this has been the case even as far back as the 80s. besides, if you really want to get mad at people voting 3rd party, the libertarians are right there. why don't you badger them about voting democrat? they're THE most popular 3rd party by a WIDE margin. if there's any group that could even come close to making a difference, they're it.

the loss of Roe v. Wade is a collective failure on the part of every administration since its ruling. no one has done enough to protect and enshrine the ruling as reflective of an inalienable right. while it's true that the trump administration was able to stack the supreme court, making the final pieces fall into place for the removal to happen, the ruling happened under the joe biden administration, and thus administration has done NOTHING to negate the ruling or provide better protections for the right to abortion access.

i think you need to look inward at the party that YOU support and what THEY are culpable for, what your support of them makes YOU an accomplice to under your own logic. stop blaming people on the left for progressive policies not happening, and accept that the dems have been the less fascy right-wing for a while now. accept that, unless you vote 3rd party or withhold your vote, you are voting for a candidate and a party that supports genocide. ask yourself if that's a concession you're willing to give.

i doubt that any of what you've said has been in good faith, anon, but i felt it worth it to use your drivel to push back on the common talking points you're using. i hope you grow a new and worse appendix, especially if you still have your's.

[mika-0730]

I'm going to be completely honest here, if you think you have to vote for biden because trump got shot and it's going to ramp up his voters, you completely missed the point of both the shooting and Biden's chance of winning from the start

Biden was always going to lose. He's been losing in polls for months. I've seen people saying the polls are wrong and it's just sounding like literal blue MAGA nonsense. This presidency is going to be known as the one that broke trump's, gave up tracking the pandemic, and performing a genocide. Once again the blue no matter who crowd is pushing this "WHAT ABOUT PROJECT 2025" nonsense, and like, if you were *actually* concerned about it, maybe you could have taken the past 4 years to you know... actually do something to codify those things into law?

The biggest things in Biden's agenda were like... healthcare, student loans, LGBTQ rights, Roe V Wade, the Pandemic, and minimum wage... and he's done almost none of those? Or at the very least, he barely touched any of them to the point only certain groups could access it? We talk about trans rights under trump, but it was under Biden, and at least one of if not both of the House and Senate, where states started to ban HRT and trans people existing outside. He didn't stop 24!!! states from banning bets practice care for minors. Literally 1 away from half of the country already has fucking bans on HRT and medicine for minors. It's a FELONY to prescribe them in 6 states???

Roe V Wade is gone, the Supreme Court is still incredibly stacked, the pandemic is still here we're just pretending as a society it's not that bad, we never got a real stimulus check, student loans were only forgiven for a SMALL section of people... what the fuck are we talking about with him doing things?

And you know, the whole "Explicitly supporting Genocide by supporting the zionists?" We sent missiles with messages on them?? During the biden admin??????????? And honestly let's not forget all the *other* kids we've bombed, like how we bombed the middle east even before anyone in the US got that halfassed stimulus? I love the continued use of my tax money for war I need to remind some of y'all that yes, voting for trump is bad, but like, *so is voting for biden*. The dems had 4 years to make any sort of argument for why we should keep them in. They had 4 years to aggressively counter the fascism in this country. Instead, they decided to fuck around, increase Police funding, military funding, get rid of pandemic testing, forget about RvW and every queer person, and just push for the status quo. Kinda sucks that the status quo is literally fascism huh

[fullhalalalchemist]

there's this sort of inevitably around trump/fascism. even if he lost this time, it would've won in 2028 because of how conservative and neoliberal america has gotten. and that's not the fault of americans, but the leadership in this country. no one, none of the Dems, have ever or will ever hold him or anyone accountable for anything. hell, none of the orchestrators of the Iraq war were ever held accountable, instead trotted out like saviors of democracy. i'm not saying his ascension to power is a good thing, nor am i in the camp that we have to "break it before we fix it". but when the democrats have so utterly failed to deliver on any of their promises, when we saw our social fabric tear and nothing be done to address the rampant racism and sexism, when price gouging kept happening and no one held the companies accountable for their greed, when people's standard of living is objectively worse now than it was in 2020, when they have abandoned us....what else is there? this country has had a horrific turn towards conservatism that was caused by so many factors, and the democrats, instead of meeting that and the pandemic infected world with robust economic reform and social welfare programs, cut nearly every single one of them back and gaslit the nation on how the economy is "better" and pointed at graphs while people turned more homeless. when their base said again and again we need gun reform, police abolition, an end to climate change, they met it with a genocide. the fix has been in.

they screwed us over. the fix has been in since at least 2016 in their camp. it is now just glaringly obvious to anyone who sees past their shitty DC brain propaganda that their main objective has been always to protect their own pocketbooks and uphold white supremacy.

the institutions have failed us. the "leadership" has failed us. there is an entire oligarchy, an entire cabal of criminals that have a stronghold on western governments who have been working behind the scenes for decades to work for this moment. because it's not just us. this is happening in so many countries across the western world. we're fucked. they fucked us over. i truly believe biden never intended to win. how do you see his internal polling which was showing an even WORSE loss, all his actions over the past year, and expect otherwise? how do you see the internal fights with everyone from her staff to BILL KRISTOL telling kamala to go more left, and him telling her to turn more conservative, and think otherwise? the only reason he didn't go forward is because he got sick with covid, in the most biblical version of irony.

and i say all this to say, do not blame yourself for this. do not blame your fellow voter/non-voter. they didn't fail you. "leadership" did. these institutions did. you are only ever responsible for your response. so either despair and put our head down in hopes you survive a few more years, or get radicalized and get organized. we have to build our own hope, with blood sweat and tears.

i love you for the sake of humanity.

[luckyladylily]

What do you think about Arab Americans refusing to vote Democrat unless they condemn the genocide in Gaza? I kinda feel like every post I've seen arguing against refusing to vote sidesteps that whole issue, including your own. Asking you specifically because you at least acknowledge the genocide in the post.

Alright, so the problem in Gaza is not a democrat problem, its an America problem. This is not about who is currently in power, but about 70 years of foreign policy and over seas American interests. The democrats will never abandon that because a relatively small amount of us on the left threaten to withhold our vote. Once again, it comes down to simple election math. I've explained this before on this blog again and again.

Depending on your area, progressives are up to around 10% of the population, and losing a progressive vote costs the democrat one vote. Centrists make up a minimum of 15%, with even greater numbers in the swing states that actually matter. And a centrist flipping from democrat to republican effectively costs 2 votes for the democrats - a flipped vote for republicans hurts twice as much as losing a leftist. This means that for any action they make to appease the left they have to gain twice as many votes as they lose centrists.

If the left wants to play this kind of election game we need to establish ourselves as a powerful voting block. But for the past 30 years people on the left have been hemming and hawing about voting in elections like Hilary vs Trump and Gore vs Bush and not showing up when it is clearly in our best interest. We have not done what is necessary to establish ourselves as a powerful voting block. If we had, if we hadn't been such lazy cowards about voting strategically, if we had established ourselves as an important, core voting block for the democrats then maybe we could attempt a move like this now. But we didn't. We were a bunch of useless cowards wringing our hands about how Hillary Clinton just didn't excite us, so why the fuck would the establishment democrats give a shit? We are a fickle, useless voting base that couldn't even take California for Bernie.

Meanwhile centrists are extremely reliable. That is a voting block with an extremely strong record. They will vote in high numbers every election in every state, especially swing states. And if they do not vote democrat, they will vote republican.

So on the one hand, we have the left, a small, unreliable, and fickle voting block, and on the other hand we have centrists, a sizable, reliable, consistent voting block that effectively counts double. Who do you think they are going to cater to?

If we want to use electoral politics like this to force change then we are going to need to put a lot of work over a long period of time. Work we on the left have not taken seriously for decades. It is absurd to think that we can suddenly enter the game at this late date and be taken seriously as a voting block. It's asinine.

For that matter, if we really wanted to avert this genocide happening now we should have been working at it seriously for decades. We've all seen the posts by now and read the history, this has been coming for decades. It was just a matter of when it was convenient for Israel to pull the trigger. But we, as the left, have not been making the concerted effort to influence moderate politics that would be required to shift American foreign policy like this. No, far too many of us have been so very concerned about keeping our personal hands clean or just being fucking lazy and not wanting to talk to moderates because it's not as fun as calling for le epic revolution. If every progressive for the past 30 years had made a strong effort to teach the basics of anti colonial politics to the general moderate left, centrist, and moderate right populations, using well considered arguments that appeal to their sensibilities, then this genocide might have been stopped in its infancy. Instead, we didn't. We sat around and complained about racist uncles and dropped friends at the first sign of them being less than perfect and created insular, echo chamber communities where we yell about settlers and a bunch of other bullshit and did nothing. We didn't do the work required. Trying to patch that over in a panic with electoral politics, which we also didn't do the work for, is terrible strategy. No one will be impressed.

And its not like the left's heart has really be in it for fighting this genocide, not completely. Oh, we made a reasonable effort at protest, but since we didn't do the work in either electoral politics or grassroots politics our entire strategy has had to rely on mass protest, which frankly we have not done to nearly the degree required to make up for our other shortcomings. Do you remember the 2020 BLM protests? We have never come close to that kind of disruption in our anti genocide protests. Which is understandable, protesting is dangerous and costly and difficult, but because we were too lazy or high minded to engage in either electoral strategies or mass grassroots conversion strategies up to this point mass protest is all we've got. We bet everything on protests and outrage. But it's not enough. The great flaw of betting everything on protest and outrage is that we can't keep it up forever because it is so costly. We are burnt out from years of protesting and dealing with Covid. It wasn't a month after this whole mess started that people were talking about fatigue and burnout. We don't have near the means or will to deliver the kind of mass riots that would be required to force an abrupt and massive change to American foreign policy. We might be able to cut the genocide short if we keep it up, and therefore we should absolutely keep it up, but frankly stopping it in its tracks was never in the cards for a political group as weak as the US left.

I understand the frustration or even hatred people feel towards democrats right now, I really fucking get it, but doubling down on proven failed strategies in a panic is not the answer. If we start establishing ourselves as an effective voting block now and we start a concerted effort to reach out to moderates and centrists now maybe in 20 years, if we are lucky, we will be powerful enough to throw around our weight with electoral politics. Maybe we will make it in time to avert the next genocide, or maybe us holding that kind of power will mean it never comes to genocide in the first place. But until that time we have no choice but to work within the constraints the failures of the US left of the past decades have left us with.

So I understand the idea, but I am sorry to say it simply will not work. As I said in my other post, the *only* thing you should be thinking of at an election is how it will effect your political goals. For the near future at the very least, vote withholding strategies will not advance any of our political goals and will almost certainly hinder many of them. It is a bad strategy and should not be employed.

[fromchaostocosmos]

Because this my blog I'm allowed to talk about what I like. Which is what I am going to do because I need to deal with the tangle of feelings I am feelings.

Firstly do to child abuse and neglect I spent most of my life not allowing myself to feel my emotions which is not really possible, but I did the best that I could. I also spent a lot of my childhood, teens years, and some of my early 20's in state of hypo-arousal, numb and robotic, and lots and lots of disassociation and depersonalization.

I spent the past while working hard in therapy to allow myself to feel emotions as well as working on many other things. Now the main issue I often face with emotions is that I often feel something, but I don't know why and what I am emotion I am experiencing.

Secondly this post is not defense in any way shape form of the current actions of current Israeli administration, of Benjamin Netanyahu, of the Likud party and the choices they have made. Nor is this post against Palestinian civilians.

With those two disclaimers/background information out of the way my goal with this post is try as best I can to explain my feelings and thoughts while not always having the words or vocabulary that I need to do it.

I am glad that there are many people and organisations who are protesting on behalf of the Palestinian people and at the same time I find myself often confused by many of the choices and even frustrated.

I do not understand how shutting down highways and airports helps to further any goals. Instead I feel it makes the overall populace angry and unwilling to listen. I also do not understand the whole "don't vote for biden" thing. Like who else is there? Trump? Are you out of your mind? Vote no one? I think not, be able to vote yes is right, but is also a privilege that so many currently in the world do not have access to or have access to real voting as opposed to a sham of an election.

I also find myself frustrated in the boycotting of certain companies. Because I do not see how they help and I do know of cases where it has done more harm such as with the soda stream boycott leading to loss of jobs in the West Bank. I also must ask when employees are mistreated and lack pay and a boycott could make a real difference why so silent then.

I also find myself not just frustrated, but angry even in Syria chemical warfare was used against the civilian populace where was the marches in the streets, the demands from governments, the protests? Where are they now?

Yemen? Azerbaijan? Russia? Why silent there. Are Yemeni children not worthy too? Are Armenian children not worthy too? Are LGBTQIA+ not worthy too? Are the Ukrainian children not worthy too? Of care and concern.

As the Houthi attack in Yemen and as Yemen deals with an on going massive food crisis where is the same worry and concern?

As ethinic Armenians flee en mass by the thousands from Azerbaijan government and are often left cut off from food and medical aid where is the same worry and concern?

There Russia's relentless attacks against Ukraine and extremely concerning and worrying ongoing denial of rights and legal protection to LGBTQIA+ people.

As well as the ongoing Genocide by Myanmar towards the Rohingya and the Rohingya difficulty finding safety as refugees as they are attacked still after fleeing to Indonesia.

There is also the ongoing Uyghur genocide being committed by the Chinese government. That involve a host of atrocities such indoctrination, reeducation camps, and forced sterilization and abortions among other horrific acts.

All of these things have seen overall silence.

Despite what gets taught the World knew what was happening during the Holocaust. The information about the camps and killings was widely available and not just to government officials, but to your average person. The world knew and they watched it happen without saying a word in protest because it did not bother them that Jews and Romani people were being mass murdered. As far as they were concerned some one was taking out the trash. The UK got involved because Hitler turned his eyes towards the UK and the USA got involved because of Pearl Harbor if not for that they would not gotten involved.

So yes I am happy that no is being silent in the case of Palestinians. I also am wary of it because I look at the other times that needed voices, but only had silence. I look at the fact that there are multiple countries who mistreat Palestinians and yet there is silence there.

I look at the silence that has greeted and continues for the Jewish and Israeli rape and sexual abuse survivor and the silence for Jewish and Israeli hostages.

I look at the support for Hamas. I look at the those who say they care about care about Palestinians and yet do not listen to them.

I look out I see all this hypocrisy and I am filled with rage and despair in turns. I feel frustrated. I feel voiceless. I feel as my lone call is being drowned out. and I wonder if Israel was not a predominantly Jewish country would the same care exist?

I wonder why are there no calls for Qatar's role in all of this? Or the Hamas leadership who live the most opulent extravagant lavish lifestyles far far away from Gaza and why none who protest call for them to held accountable?

I rage and I despair. I despair and rage. I feel bound and I feel lost. And I wonder if it was me, if it was mine once again being killed would we again be greeted with a silent world?

And then I remember, everything that happened after. No it would not quite. It would loud, it would deafening, and it would be raucous cheering as the world watches with glee.

[ambelle]

WHY do I have to explain these things?

People have to understand that Trump = the end of Democracy. A third party candidate has no chance of winning. It's Trump or Kamala. You really want to change the two-party system? I don't believe you. Here's an explanation as to why I don't believe you along with a lesson on how our government actually works.

People always wait until the election year to TALK about a glorious revolution but this energy is nonexistent before and after the election. It's performative showboating. Protest voters have no plan for a revolution because they don't actually want one. They talk shit on twitter for a few months then November comes along and they move on with their lives suddenly no longer pumped up to ~Dismantle the System~. Right back at work paying taxes that fund wars they don't agree with like the rest of us robots they are so much smarter than.

If Jill is serious why isn't she and her followers even attempting to start small? Run for mayor or governor or something...anything to grow your platform. Instead, it's crickets from these people right until the election comes up and they want "campaign funding" then they vanish into thin air for 3 years. Why can't she win even on a local level is it because she's not even trying? She is an agent of chaos who accepts money from shady rich people with ties to Israel just like everyone else + thinks genociding Ukraine is fine. Are we picking and choosing which genocides are okay or is the idea itself morally corrupt? I can't keep up. Should the Ukraine babies be blown up?

Real change isn't just putting a third party candidate in office. If you truly want to dismantle the way things work you have to know how the government works. You really want third parties to have a chance? Cool then you need to be having conversations about getting rid of the Electoral College. I don't ever see third-party supporters doing that. Instead they say "well if we split the vote then next time they'll take 3rd party more serious." Next time? You mean the time after the Dictatorship? This shit is so unserious. WTF were y'all doing the past 3.5 years instead of talking about the Electoral College issue?

You want the President ( or in Kamala's case Vice President) to have more power than they actually do? Cool then you have to get rid of Congress. That's how it'll be 100% up to the president whether or not we fund Israel. Because as of now CONGRESS decides that. Meaning not even President Jesus would be able to stop the aid to Israel. When a bill has passed both the House of Representatives and the Senate, it is sent to the President for review. The President has 10 days to sign the bill into law or veto it but guess what happens when he vetos...it goes right back to them and they vote to make it law. What plan do 3rd party voters have to get rid of Congress and checks and balances? How would their presidency play out any differently if the system itself is exactly the same???

If you do happen to like Democracy and checks in balances then guess what you have to do. Vote...that's right LMAO vote for the state reps who will be in Congress. Vote in all elections so you have more control over ALL three branches. The problem isn't voting for the President. The problem is forgetting to vote for the other elections and then being confused why the president can't get anything done. Congress passed the bill and Biden signed it. That's what happened.

Mind you historically black people were killed fighting for the right to vote. White supremacists were passing Jim Crow laws and doing the absolute most to suppress the black vote. If it doesn't matter then why do that? Why is Georgia secretly unregistering people who signed up on their websites as Democrats?

Voting IS power.

Below are visuals of the bill Congress passed, a breakdown of their vote (and if you look you can see by name to know for the next elections who needs to go), and a REMINDER that the Vice President has nothing to fucking do with this process whatsoever.

[mint-mumbles]

Hey, everyone, be careful of a “news” source called Epoch Times!

Epoch is a conservative news outlet that is making a transphobic documentary saying how it’s “based on a true story”.

It has all the bells and whistles: a detransitioner saying how they detransitioned because “[their] body started hurting” (which is a valid reason, but stopping treatment for your body’s sake doesn’t make you any less trans) which then immediately cuts to people saying how people are “mutilating their bodies”. It says “Since when are parents the bad guys?” and has a random teacher saying “Okay, kids! Today we’re going to learn about gender. 😃” Dude, no teacher says or does that 😂

According to this piece of nonsense, we trans people are being supported by the government as well! I don’t know what fantasy land they’re living in, but I wish people wouldn’t commit a genocide against us and instead help us 🥲

I didn’t grab the name of the video (the editing had less than a second to display the title), but I do know that apparently it’s going to be in Epoch TV on June 16th, so be careful! We might see a rise in transphobia then.

Here’s some information about Epoch (please add anything else you think I missed in the comments or reblogs):

Apparently, Epoch has done quite a bit of shady crap in the past:

Please be careful everyone!

[fandomfluffandfuck]

Hi S,

I was scrolling through Tiktok and I saw a video of Chris Evans and president Joe Biden. And Chris was smiling and laughing. When I tell you I was shooketh! I know Chris was into politics, but damn! How did this even happen?

Also now my hate for USA politics will show, cuz why are the presidents almost always grandpas? I know it’s the system, but why? We’ll at least he isn’t shaking hands with Trump.

Do you know what happened. I think you are from the USA (I’m not sure), so maybe you got some information.

Thank you!! <3

(I also loved the post with Seb on the Syrian)

ah, yes, this video for ASP

Lmao, it's all good, you're welcome to hate on US politics here 💀💀 I may unfortunately be from the USA, but I, too, hate them.

(Putting this under the cut because I get rambly, and I understand that most people aren't here for politics)

I absolutely feel you, though. I was shocked to see Chris and Biden shaking hands. Of course, Chris was at the White House, so it's not impossible, that is where the POTUS is most of the time, and I believe Chris has been to the White House before. I could be wrong there, but, if nothing else, he's certainly been in and around Washington D.C. before with A Starting Point.

(A Starting Point being, according to Wikipedia, "A Starting Point is a website, launched in 2020, devoted to presenting videos by elected officials (current or former), presenting various points of view on issues that are of interest to the United States electorate. It was started by Chris Evans, Mark Kassen, and Joe Kiani.")

So, ASP is how, even if I didn't realize that many people used ASP, lol. I am very involved in politics outside of the fandom space--generally reading and watching and educating myself, as well as attending political events on my campus and speaking to my friends about it--but my involvement doesn't come from ASP.

But, still, the president and Chris meeting, shaking hands, smiling, and laughing feels different. It's a cross-over in a way I would, honestly, rather have not happened.

Don't get me wrong, the purpose Chris was there for, with ASP, trying to get more young people engaged in voting is immensely important. Young people in the US are more likely than any other demographic to vote blue (democratic), and that is something that, with another Trump presidency (GOP/republican) on the possible horizon, is especially important. However, I wish he could've done it without shaking hands with the president. Yes, Biden is a figure head, he doesn't do much (generally and specifically at his age, sitting in the presidency). But, also, with the genocide of Palestinians going on and Biden's active, ongoing support to Israel... I don't enjoy seeing them together.

As far as age... yeah. It's the system. 🙃 If you ask me, the minimum age for being able to run for public office should be lowered (it's 35 at least for president, though, the youngest president was 42, the average age is around mid 50s at inauguration), and there should be a cap on how old you can be and still run as modern medicine continues to prolong life and technology and education provide young people with more resources.

I will admit, growing up in the US, I have absolutely been indoctrinated to see the president and feel something. When I first saw that video my reaction was just, what the fuck!? in a lighthearted, laughing manner. A cross-over, like I said previously, they don't feel like they exist in the same world, y'know? But once I thought about it for half a second longer... it felt different.

Chris can do what he likes. Obviously. I do wonder how it happened, though. Maybe it was something he was approached with by the team for ASP, like, hey, wanna meet the president? Maybe it was something that activated the same indoctrinated kid in him--they teach you young to idolize presidents, past and present--so he said yes, thoughtless. Maybe it was something he thought about and weighed the options of, thinking it would help the cause of getting young people to vote even if it would also, inevitably make people on the Internet mad (maybe rightfully so, too, shaking hands with someone with blood on their hands. As presidents do. Biden's blood is fresh enough it's dripping, though). You can't deny that it made news--Captain America and President Biden shake hands!!! That might give a spark to some younger Marvel fan, tuning in to see what's going on with politics when they otherwise wouldn't. Maybe it was something White House staff and the team for ASP worked on together and surprised Chris.

I don't know.

It's odd. You are correct, though--at least it wasn't Trump (1:26).

If anything, though, it reminds me of the 2016 USO tour Chris and Scarlett went on for Marvel. Like, I appreciate what they did for the individual active service members as people. I think we need to do more to support veterans alongside people who are directly impacted by war--their lives destroyed or altered. However, I am very anti-military, anti-war. So, I don't like that he agreed to do that (granted, it may have been required from Marvel, not something that he could get out of, that's unclear). And I sure as hell hate some of the things he did on that USO tour. Still. My differing opinions on Chris can coexist. I can like what I know of Chris, what he shares of himself, and dislike other parts of him or actions he does. Humans are flawed. I may run a fan blog, and may seem like a stan, but I can also disagree with things people that I am a fan of agree with.

Lmao, thanks! The out-out-place reference to Sebastian on a sybian is related to this, lightening the mood

[loveguts]

mostly just. grappling with the horror that the "progressive" candidate option would have rather lost the election to a christofascist white supremacist, instead of just doing the bare fucking minimum and not sending any more billions of dollars of aid for israel to continue their accelerated genocide of palestinians AND their increasing attacks on other surrounding countries too.

it's honestly just nothing but democrat politicans' own faults that trump has gotten as far as he has, they're practically fucking handing it to him at this point. for the past 8 years (even longer but i'm talking like..relative to trump anyways) we have seen nothing but the party meant to represent us consistently fail at addressing the growing needs and concerns of the entire fucking world at this point. the vast majority of american voters are either moving further left or they're moving further right, and instead of recognizing what the main voters they're trying to pull really want to see change, dems just try to pander to like the 5 whole republicans in the country that aren't voting trump and the vague idea of undecided centrists, lmfao.

not to mention kamala's entire platform was basically just "guys look im a republican too dont worry, at least im not trump though lol, if you dont think im progressive enough heres this lukewarm mildly progressive vice president!!" like we learned back in fucking 2016 that basing your entire campaign off of not being trump isn't enough to bring in voters, you need to have a plan that's actually meaningful to leftists voters that are sick of the world being fucked over for the sake of pandering to fascists. not to mention kamala should have gone even harder anyways because everyone regardless of political alignment fucking hates biden, we have seen nothing but everything steadily get worse under his presidency and also every single promise he's broken that he made in his initial presidential campaign.

and it's just so fucking maddening that we know for a fact that we have significant numbers and voting power as leftists, we could win the fucking 2020 election and we turned several traditionally red states blue, but we're all fucking dejected, everything is getting worse, trump is going to without a doubt make it worse but kamala was guaranteed to make it almost just as bad as him anyways because their actual policies and agendas were virtually identical. we've all had to sit back and watch, despite having a blue president and significant numbers in the house and senate too, everything just getting fucking worse than where we started, and yes not all of that is 100% biden's fault but come the fuck on lol he has not done a single thing he promised in his campaign. and instead of reassuring the left-leaning voters that she had a concrete plan to address our biggest concerns, harris pretty much just spit in everyone's face and said we could deal with trump if we don't like her policies. even though we know for a fact now that supposedly not being as bad as the other guy can only carry you so far.

and inevitably, instead of recognizing this is fundamentally just a problem with them, all the white liberals and dems are going to start turning on the non-voters instead of addressing the root fucking cause of the reasons why they didn't vote. it's a fucking cycle and it keeps repeating because dems want to continue to try and have polite conversations about fascism while the fascists are getting bolder and bolder and more organized. meanwhile there's a fucking genocide that the US is directly funding. not to mention the vast majority of the leftists i've seen talk about not wanting to vote are people of color, and again, instead of addressing that maybe people don't want to vote for politicians that are fine with making their lives worse regardless of party, they just wanna say "well we're not making it AS BAD so just vote for us!!". and maybe they worked for getting biden in office but we all saw how "pushing biden further left" went !!! i'm fucking tired !!!!

[wack-ashimself]

Dumb evil>smart evil.

I hate #trump. But I FEAR #harris. She is...the culmination of turning democrats into republicans*, enforcing HARSH cruel inhumane laws (that even the republicans struggled in the past to get enforced!), helping no one but the rich, bombing everyone, and convincing their fan base everything is going to be aok (even tho NOTHING is going ok; GENOCIDE!)

She's a criminal. A BAD person, entirely. They all are.

I had a conversation with someone how they were voting harris. I go 'she's evil. Even if she is the lesser than, you are consenting to evil. You aren't voting good, nor, creating opportunities for good to come out in the future. You could vote stein**.' And they go 'yeah, but she's been in the game a LONG time. I think she's been just taking her donor's money and running with it.' Which I have NEVER heard anybody say. Cuz she's helped charities, said OUT LOUD things no other politician said, AND was arrested for protesting against israel. And they go 'and if I don't...(we get) trump.' Trump is a fucking MORON. At least if he won, he'd fuck something up and expose some of the evil shit going on. I do NOT want trump, but if anyone is the lesser evil between the two, I would actually say trump. Harris is smart evil, trump is dumb evil. Why would you want the smart one in control if both are working against you?

But the person was adamant about voting harris, so I walked away saying 'Fine. Great. When the first female black president nukes an innocent country, THAT IS ON YOU AND YOUR VOTE! You consented to that!!'

*Fun fact? 100+ years ago, the republican's and democrat's platforms and beliefs were 100% the entire opposite of where they stand today. Republicans used to be the progressive left wing! Seriously! How/when/why they switched is curious, but the fact that they did shows...neither party has a true core or soul. They can change their morals, entirely, whenever. Which we are seeing today with the democrats turning into republicans, and the republicans turning into the tea party.

**Stein will be a failure, no matter what. I am a REALIST. Cuz only 1 of 3 things happens. 1-she loses (def gonna happen). 2-she wins, then sells out. 3-she wins, then both democrats and republicans work to make sure she gets ABSOLUTELY nothing accomplished in her 4 years as president. Then at the end of 4 years, both parties say 'look! A 3rd party did nothing. Vote for us.' And we will go right back to the status quo, red v blue, for another decade till we try again. See, here's the thing: you can put ALL the good people you want into the government. But putting new pieces on a car that's not even running is just short sighted and meaningless. Stein in a corrupt system, even the LITTLE she could get done, would be reversed by the supreme court, or the next president. We need a complete overhaul. Worker owned business. Locally owned and controlled utilities including, but not limited to, water, power, wifi internet, and banking. Localization of everywhere for everyone's survival. Make everywhere self sustaining and independent. We CAN do this. They want you to think it's impossible. The only thing truly impossible is for us all surviving and being happy letting it stay as it stands...