#and women cuz I'm a feminist

[taniushka12]

also can I just say? Susan x Rayna is real . . . But so is Susan x Nancy 😤😤😤

[ceo-of-the-pluto-defense-squad]

"all these achilleans putting women dni in their posts are so cringe and misogynistic!! 😂😒😒"

meanwhile sapphics:

[cosmogyros]

It is fucking amazing how often I have to unfollow people for bodyshaming others related to their choice to shave or not. And the fascinating thing is that this judginess is ALWAYS aimed at women. Men who don't shave? Fine. Men who do shave? Also fine. It's their body, they can do what they like with it, right?

But as soon as we're talking about women, suddenly it's totally okay to prescribe what they ought to do about their OWN bodies. I never used to see this many "women shouldn't shave" posts here, and the recent uptick is concerning to me.

I understand that it's rooted in a pushback against patriarchal norms that pressure all women to remove their body hair. And I fully support that. But you've gotta understand that if you react to these norms by saying "women should all shave? actually no, women should NOT shave!" ...YOU'RE STILL BEING SEXIST. You're still saying that women "should" do something different with their bodies because YOU think they ought to.

It's absolutely wild to me how often internalized misogyny can be revealed by simply asking oneself "If the genders were switched, would I be saying this (in any context except as a joke)?" And if the answer is no, then... maybe don't say it.

Freedom is always more revolutionary. Letting people make their own choices is always more revolutionary. If you react to someone's attempt to enforce a certain standard by attempting to enforce the opposite standard instead, you are not on the side of freedom.

[zenjestrr]

ok someone just made a post about how some women are treated a type of way purely off of vibes (specifically mean girl vibes in that post) and how it's fucked up to presuppose that going off of absolutely nothing and I definitely agree that's fucked up however, they also said men don't get treated this way and I was like H U U U U U U H H H H H H ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? men ABSOLUTELY get treated negatively by absolute strangers based off of Vibes™, are we living on the same planet? you know how many guys have been minding their own business but are called creepy or intimidating behind their back? this is especially common for men of color. bro someone once told me that I gave off serial killer vibes like ??????

[artemismatchalatte]

Here is my 2023 tbr shelf! I own copies of these books and these were on the top of my want-to-read.

It's mostly classics, lgbt lit, women's lit, and feminist theory with some nonfiction and other books thrown in. :)

[heavenlymorals]

Why are you always trying to paint Arthur as a misogynist? When he clearly isn't??? I like your posts by why do you hyper fixate on stuff like that?

Hello anon and thanks for the ask.

Well, quite simply, I "paint" Arthur as someone who actively believes in and enforces gender roles because he does so in the game. It's a part of his writing and his character. The canon Arthur is NOTHING like how the fandom here on Tumblr portrays him as. That's also a reason why I started making these posts because I honestly hate when fanon becomes the accepted truth of characters and not the actual canon. It happens all the time.

I'm a very pragmatic person and this will show in my posts. I don't care about what characters COULD be and I focus more on what they ACTUALLY are. That's why my retrospective posts are usually looked at through a psychological, sociological, cultural, feminist, and/or literary point of view. I look at characters and learn things about them through their actions and words, as well as the time period that they are a part of. I do not care at all about making characters seem morally better, especially when it comes to historical attitudes because those historical attitudes aren't as historical as we make them out to be.

They still affect us every single day and only recently have we started pushing back- that's also not mentioning cultures where these attitudes are STILL encouraged, which then changes the way people think. Understanding historical attitudes allows us to understand not only our own cultures better, but people as well and why they do the things they do.

Now let's talk about Arthur. Arthur is a man born in 1863. Women couldn't even get a credit card by themselves without a man till 1974. To put it quite simply, he lived in a time era where women had almost 0 rights and those women who did succeed in life usually had some sort of male support. People supported this system, both male and female. Did you know that when the suffrage movement began, most American women didn't give a fuck because they believed that was men's duties, not their own? Point is is that even if Arthur is a lot more lenient regarding this stuff, he still actively believes in it because of how pungent it was in the society he lived in.

The first mission we have with the female gang members is heading to Valentine. The first thing he says to them is whether Miss Grimshaw could spare them from their domestic chores, already showing that in the gang, the girls' main duty is the domestic work and that Arthur supports this. Later in that mission, when he chases down Jimmy Brooks, he puts Uncle in charge of bringing them back home, even though he is an old ass man and they are three young, healthy, and capable women. In one mission, you got two examples of Arthur being an active encourager of gender roles.

And then there is Sadie- when she expresses her frustration over the work she has to do, he tries to shut her down. When she gets her pants, he mocks her: "You get a pair of pants and all of a sudden you think you're Landon Ricketts?" When she asks Dutch when she can go robbing with them, both him and Dutch laugh her off. When they bust John out of prison, he does it with her cuz literally no one else would help him and when they escape on the boat, he gets visibly annoyed that she doesn't take his hand. There are even more examples of things like this when he antagonizes her, but that's just the main game.

And there is the antagonizations of women performers. "Women shouldn't be doing this." "Go make someone some supper." "Go back to the kitchen." "This ain't ladylike." I'm sorry, but these need no explanations. His antagonize lines are just as canon as his greet lines and the fact that he says stuff like that shows that he believes in gender roles. It's an active part of his belief system.

There are so many more examples of this and the majority of them are subtle but I come from a culture that still treats its women like the 1800s treated theirs so when I ever pick up on these things, it's cuz I've lived it before.

And my final point- this is a historical game. Rockstar made sure to be as accurate as they can in regards to the time period- so characters not only react to historical attitudes but they are a part of it as well. Same goes for Arthur. He's a historical character with a historical background and historical attitudes- and that comes with the good, like chivalry, and the bad, sexism. You shouldn't play a game like RDR if you're expecting characters to feel modern in their thought processes.

Thank you and have a great day.

[bitterkarella]

Midnight Pals: Men

Alex Garland: now this story is for the ladies Garland: i feel like you'll really "get" it Garland: it's feminist Angela Carter: ah, good Garland: it's about how men suck ass Carter: Carter: alright, i'm listening

Alex Garland: ok so, as we all know, men are trash Garland: i mean, am i right, ladies? Garland: not me of course! Garland: i'm elevating women's voices

Garland: Submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society, I call this the tale of the men Garland: it's about a woman who rents a vacation cottage from Austin powers Garland: like with the teeth and the voice and everything Garland: he's all "eh eh smashing, baby! yeah baby yeah" Garland: "shagadelic!"

Garland: and also every man in the whole village is played by the same actor! Angela Carter: the same actor? Carter: is it mike myers? Garland: haha no but wouldn't that be great? Garland: "Oh behave! yeah baby!" Garland: "thats my bag, baby!"

Garland: finally! a movie that dares to ask Garland: why are men Angela Carter: that is a very good question

Garland: you're all gonna love this Garland: some have said my work is highly vaginal Garland: The word itself makes some men uncomfortable Garland: Vagina. Patricia Highsmith: yeah i don't like that

Garland: so this woman is in this vacation home Garland: when a naked guy starts harassing her Garland: "yeah baby!" said nobody since this was not good

Garland: of course none of the MEN take her seriously Garland: cuz she's a woman! Highsmith: yeah well you know how broads are Highsmith: always hysterical Garland:

Mary Shelley: if some guy showed up at my house, i'd fuckin stab him Garland: she does! she stabs him in the hand Garland: the stab wound is a vagina Shelley: well then, she ain't stabbed him hard enough Shelley: i'd stab him right in his vagina hand, i don't give a fuck

Patricia Highsmith: damn mary you'd just stab a man? Mary Shelley: i ain't no sexist Shelley: i'd stab a woman too Shelley: show me a woman, i'll stab her right now Shelley: look i just love stabbing, honestly

Garland: each man represents one of the negative aspects of toxic masculinity Patricia Highsmith: why are we always talking about the negative aspects of toxic masculinity Highsmith: why don't we talk about the positive aspects of toxic masculinity?

Garland: then the Austin powers guy steals her car Garland: because toxic masculinity often compels men to steal cars Garland: meanwhile, overhead, the milky way galaxy spreads across the sky like a great big vagina

 Garland: i hope you ladies are ready for the big finale! Garland: does anyone here like M preg? Angela Carter: Patricia Highsmith: Mary Shelley: Garland: ok this ending might no go over as well as i thought

[that-was-a-bit-stupid-of-you]

I don't understand, what's going on with Taylor and Matt trash being a couple? Could you explain to me?

nothing is really going on at the moment tbh, cuz they broke up a pretty long while ago, but the issue is the album (if that's what you're referring to) and taylor swift herself.

[will add sources and more stuff when I find the links and if I realise I missed something out, cuz this is a general thing based off of memory]

Context: dating history

Basically she and matty had been friends for a few years (there are rumors of them hooking up ig in 1989 era maybe, but I don't really care enough to believe shit like that). Apparently he had also been pining for her (according to stuff he said in interviews and tweets) for years, but again, you can still chalk it up to rumors if you wanna.

The thing is that post her breakup with joe alwyn, she started dating him (in like april I think) [there had been dating rumors of them since 2014 tho, and again in March 2023] and the fandom kinda got divided.

Here is the link to their entire timeline

Context: what matty healy did

Matty healy (you prolly know this) is basically racist, sexist, antisemitic, homophobic and God knows what else I have missed out or not been aware of. He did shit like doing the nazi gesture on stage, mocking asian accents, tastelessly making fun of ice spice on her race and bodyshaming her, laughing and basically confirming that he watches violent rape porn of black women on a site that is known to be highly problematic and force their actors (gender neutral) to do things they dont consent to (there was also an actress who was assaulted or something but im not informed on it). Even when he was called out on stuff like this, he accused people (who were poc, btw) of overreacting.

Context: taylor and activism

Taylor had also, in the past (lover era, and miss Americana the doc) had talked about how she had been too quiet about political issues and politics itself for too long, that she understands her influence and power in society, and that she "needs to be on the right side of history" and even specifics such as that she thinks it's spineless to go on stage and say "happy pride month" and not acknowledge the political oppression that queers in USA were facing (something about a bill or the republican party idk man I'm not american, i dont remember but i did research when i watched the doc tho). She has claimed she was gonna be clear about where she stands (many republicans had considered her to be one, and many thought she's conservative or something, but she was always quiet about it, until the lover era). However, she just stopped that activism after the lover era, and went back to being quiet on where she stands (I've seen many swifties refer to the lover era as the activism era) and hasn't spoken about anything substantial really. She did some things like post a black square with 13 hearts during blm, and stuff that every celeb who wasn't openly a pos did, but that's kinda it. Even as a self proclaimed feminist, she didn't speak up on issues such as roe v wade, or about an issue regarding drag queens despite having them in yntcd, or talking about trans/queer rights until she was in a blue state (im not an American, I just like to keep up a little with stuff in usa cuz it's always up in my face sadly, and thus i cant be specific, but anyways, correct me if I'm wrong, or if I missed something).

So even after saying she'll be vocal, she was just... not. And that's basically her on politics or giving a shit about minority communities.

Context: Fandom's reaction

Swifties were extremely disappointed that taylor CHOSE to associate with a man like this, and there were fans calling her out, and she received backlash, too.

Most of these swifties were poc (myself included) and they felt hurt that an artist that they not just supported and developed such a deep connection with, but also financially supported for years, would have such disregard for them. Not just was she dating him, but she kept saying things such as "I have never been happier in all aspects of my life" or saying "I love you" or "uk who you are" in romantic songs on the tour, which was just adding insult to injury. She also did a collab with ice spice (which was completely out of nowhere, and the collab itself seemed badly made and rushed), which fans and others speculated to be a pr cover up for the fact that matty healy had mocked her (many ppl also believed that it was too quick for it to be a pr cover tho).

Now, in the fandom, when poc swifties were calling her out on dating mh, (mostly) white swifties started harassing poc swifties for doing so, or saying that they are hindering with her happiness or some bs about it being "just a fling" (again, myself included). They said it's the same as seeing a friend get out of a long-term relationship and make bad dating choices, and poc swifties should let it go (as if taylor is our close personal friend). In a mostly white fandom, poc swifties felt alienated and sidelined.

Ofc, taylor never addressed any of this backlash, and after she broke up with him, there were articles saying that sources say (which mostly means her pr team atp) that her breakup had nothing to do with his controversies or behavior.

The album release (lyrics, references and reaction)

Now, with the release of ttpd, contrary to what most of the fandom believed, most of the songs on both the albums are believed to be (and heavily hinted on) about matty healy. These include 4 songs- "ttpd", "but daddy I love him", "I can fix him (no really I can)", and "guilty as sin?"

Ttpd, the title track, talks about mh being "a tattooed golden retriever" (wtf) and about him love-bombing her, and her pining after him, thinking about marriage and shit. But daddy I love him and I can fix him, are basically that no one supported her dating decision and she's claiming that she loves him oh so goddamn much, but more importantly, her talking about her fans' reactions. Specifically, describing her poc fans to be "vipers" and "judgemental creeps" who hate her and them being hurt as "bitching and moaning", and basically took the side of the (white) fans who defended her, indirectly. She described his racist bs as "crazy" and said shit like she could "handle a dangerous man." She also has another song, "Guilty as sin?" and while I genuinely don't give a fuck about what she chooses to do in her private life, unless it is problematic, it is about her fantasizing about being with that racist man while being in a long term relationship with joe alwyn. She sings about how she wants him and wants to be with him... in multiple ways, iykyk. Again, out of context, I love this song so much, but that doesn't erase the context, right?

She also has a song "I hate it here" where she says the following lines:

"My friends used to play a game where

We would pick a decade

We wished we could live in instead of this

I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists and getting married off for the highest bid"

And while there are many reasons why this line by itself is racist (romantisization of a time that was extremely shitty to many communities, most of which she is not a part of, showing herself to be "oh look I'm so woke I still remember the bad things even when I romanticize bad eras in history" which is something you expect from an ignorant white high schooler maybe, not a 34 y/o billionaire who claims to be well-read, etc.) but taylor swift herself saying these is adding insult to injury cuz she has shown time and time again she has no problem with racism (she kept quiet when antonia gentry, a black actress, received hate and racist threats by swifties because of a line BY NETFLIX that taylor didn't like, and she shouldn't ofc, but it wasn't the actress' fault), or associating herself with them (matty healy, for example). It is hypocritical to write something like that after writing an album about pining after a man and his "dangerousness," which is just bigotry. Way to romanticise racism, sexism, and antisemitism, taylor.

Even now, after listening to the album, she clearly doesn't like mh anymore, NOT because of his actions, but because he broke her heart, showing that she still enables and is okay with everything he did.

And that's kind of it (ig) about her and matty healy. I'm not really sure exactly which part you wanted to know, so this is just a gist of it all. Hope it helps :)

[jennrypan]

..Echo and Hera being Canon is the most insane thing in the fucking world.

Like..OK so I guess Hera just LOVES blue people. Nevermind the fact she and Zeus fucking love each other (despite their marriage being very terrible, cuz of him.) It would've been AMAZING. To see her reflect on everything, talk to him about her problems, about their marriage problems, how she misses him, how she wants to kick his ass for everything he put her through. We could've had THAT. But no!!! We got this half baked ship cuz Rachel can't write couples or plots worth shit!!

Hera LOVED Zeus and then she fucking friend zones the husband she's loved and known for literally centuries. Be so fuckkng fr.

Also..why does Hera need to..die to get rid of Kronos?? This plot is ridiculous. How is this feminist??? All the women need to suffer and get hurt to be strong??? To defeat the men??? Be so fucking FOR REAL THIS IS STUPID. END THIS.

And then all the people there to defeat Kronos?? They didn't really do shit now did they ��� are they just standing at the door like dumbasses now? The hell Is Tartarus doing?? How is he losing control of Kronos AGAIN.

God I'm so--- agitated.

Lore Olympus has Hera committing emotional affairs out the wazoo when she'd never do that, especially with Hades and the assistant ZEUS hired to fucking keep watch of her??? Cmon.

[daughter-of-sapph0]

I keep seeing terfs with "dysphoric" in their bio, and I feel like fucking Inigo Montoya. like, do they actually know what that word means?

like, the way they seem to use it makes me think that it's just a catch all for "being female sucks and it's so hard. because of periods and misogyny. and the evil tranny faggot troons who are invading the west and stealing the blood from our children. I am personally the victim of every situation I am in. I once told someone to kill themselves and they told me "no fuck off". how rude. I'm so oppressed."

like, 99% of their problems are completely made up. they side with nazis and fascists and the far right on almost every issue. they all hate each other almost as much as they hate trannies. they don't have any irl friends because everyone who knows them apsolutely despises their horrid personality. it's a death cult on the brink of collapse. the alt right hates them because they're women. actual feminists hate them for being sexist as hell. the only thing they have going for them is that a washed up children's book author and holocaust denier is the figurehead of their movement.

but on the other hand, there's a decent amount of terfs who are very clearly closet trans men, and I'm pretty sure they don't know it. like, especially the ones who have been groomed into thinking that violently hating your body to the point of serious depression is something that's normal for every single women to experience. cuz holy shit, if you think being a woman is just pure suffering, there may be something wrong on your end.

and I sorta feel bad for a lot of them. because they're in a death cult. they're so deep in this hateful ideology, so far down the pipeline, that they would rather suffer for the rest of their lives and try to make other people's lives worse, because the alternative is transitioning and that would be going against what they've been groomed to believe.

when I say that radical feminism is a death cult, I genuinely mean it. it creates a bunch of depressed suicidal shut ins who spend all their time and energy in their echo chambers online trying to make other people (trans people in particular) feel just as depressed and suicidal as they feel.

I'm not even trying to be like "transitioning would have saved him" or anything. but if these people just logged off, talked to actual human beings, and maybe had someone explain to them that sending suicide bait to strangers online 24/7 is not a healthy way to live and told them that they're being groomed... idk maybe they'd be able to escape the nightmare they live in.

hating being a woman is a good sign that you're not a woman. hating being a man is a good sign that you're not a man. you do not need anyone's permission to be yourself. live your own life, regardless of what other people say.

[nerdylilpeebee]

Starting a new thread cuz that one was INSANELY long.

@attractivesteaminghunkofflesh69

I already explained why I put it that way, I was mocking the people who think it's okay to hate men cuz rape happens.

I was mocking you when I said that. Statistics, piled together by feminists who are notoriously biased and unreliable, claiming violence has gotten slightly higher in recent years does not justify choosing the bear. Never said I didn't believe it, I said feminist's are untrustworthy and it does not justify dehumanization of men.

Oh, I understand there's differences between different types of feminism. XD but in my experience, feminists are all the same. You believe slightly different things, but you're all assholes who hate men and think you're oppressed because violence still happens to women like it does everyone else. I have no respect for any feminist, especially since radfems aren't the only ones who've spread false accusations about me.

Oh no, I think I'm morally superior cuz I'm not a sexist who thinks we should humor sexism just cuz it's trauma-fuelled. I'm morally superior because I don't hate men or think dehumanization of them is suddenly okay because women are afraid of rape.

Okay: they're stupid because death is infinitely worse than rape. They're stupid because most of them think it would be a quick death, or worse they try to act like if they were attacked by bears they would be believed and get justice, when in reality people would call them stupid for provoking a bear and then never hunt the bear down unless it started attacking multiple people or was currently in the process of attacking someone. They're stupid because they come up with bullshit delusions of why it's a good choice to choose the bear, based off false ideas.

Bears will kill you. Unless you know what you're doing AND get lucky, a bear WILL kill you. They are territorial, wild animals. You cannot act like you'll be fine encountering one, because wild animals are unpredictable. Go into an encounter with one thinking data about previous attacks will give you a 100% garuntee of survival and you'll end up mauled. Shit, there were these two women who were taking photos with a bear who was outside their car window, thought he wanted to be friends so they rolled down the window and one of them was fucking MAULED. These are not cuddly creatures you can be friends with, you cannot treat them like a non-threat, let alone as less of a threat than a man!

[hualianschild]

Genuine question. I loved many elements of the apothecary diaries, the mystery, the unsexualised main lead and the slice-of-lifey vibe to it and just about everything else also ticks all things I love about stories in media. The problem is there is ginormous off-putting almost triggering thing in it. The setting and how it displays women.

Does the setting of apothecary diaries not upset any others girl watcher’s stomach? If you want a detailed ask i can send one :(

I geniunly mean no harm, but I saw anime feminists say it’s one of the best piece of media that navigates womens struggles and I’m so flabbergasted.

hello thanks for the ask and yes you can send me a detailed ask I don't mind ^^

so the thing about the apothecary diaries is that it's based on ancient historical china and and as with any historical based media ofcourse there will be lots of misogyny and homophobia and every bad old thinking thing you can think of, as someone who watches lots of historical fantasy related things, things like these are a common occurrence atp and I'm so used to it that I'll be surprised if a piece of historical media is non toxic and full of positive vibes. In the apothecary diaries there's this system of the emperor keeping concubines in a separate palace and all they're useful for is to provide heirs and I'm like yeah it was the usual scene back in the day (there's just this ONE ruler in china who kept just one partner his entire life and he's famous for that if I remember correctly) and I can't do anything abt it now cuz that system has long been abandoned now as with the slavery system too

I think the anime feminists saying it's a good depiction of women struggles aren't wrong as maomao who's seen as the daughter of a commoner somehow got sold as a servant and is bound by a contract and everyone suffers in a slavery system and adding the fact that people try to disregard her advice cuz she's a woman and a teenager and a slave at that really reflects back to what usually happens to women in modern times too but even after that she has a friend who she talks with abt their struggles of being a servant and that she's still enthusiastic about poisons and herbs and everything related to apothecary and doesn't let those people from stopping her in persuing her interests whenever she can while still trying to save her life (servants meant nothing to the ruling class so they can be easily k worded off) just makes me so happy, she's now thriving cuz everyone knows how talented she is and very clever to the point they go to her to ask for suggestions and advice about their problems and trust her to help cure their problems is a good representation of how people let their internal misogyny stop them from seeing what's actually there

so yeah these were my thoughts I know some might disagree here and there but feel free to point out if there's a flaw or something here hope this helps ~

[helpallthenamesaretaken]

I always wonder why jelousy is treated like an emotion that shouldnt exist... when it can be felt by anyone. Annabeth gets hated for feeling that way during some of the books. Its sad to see honestly.

hi, @emilia9622! thanks for the ask!

you're absolutely right, em! I've been theorising about this lately. and I've noticed that usually in media, women are always held up to perfect standards and are written as such to avoid being accused of not being feminist. usually, the woman says something independent and girlboss, which in the end, always end up rude. and this makes the guy fall even more in love with her and chase after her. now, she's the perfect woman she's got a man yay!!

now here's the thing with pjo. annabeth being jealous towards rachel was treated as what it was: an insecure teenager doing an insecure petty act. when she says something in botl that is usually praised by the media for being slay ("was it hard?") it's immediately shut down by percy telling her to not say things like that, cuz it's rude. it's not percy shutting down her feminism, it's percy telling her to be polite.

this incorporates with another main comparison I'm trying to make: the male guy in this case doesn't fall even more in love with her. percy realises annabeth is emotionally unavailable and also runs. it's not the perfect thing to do, but that's how conflicts are supposed to work: someone does something wrong -> the other person doesn't take it very well because they didn't take the effort to understand the others situation -> things go wrong -> things get solved.

now, annabeth doesn't have a man running behind her and she's not praised by the narrative. thats the thing that makes everyone mad cause a young girl who made a mistake due to her understandable lack of emotional intellgence? horrible horrible person who needs to go straight to hell.

does that make her a perfect human being? no. does that in any way affect her being a strong capable woman? no! i appreciate rick for not being scared of making his woman characters have flaws. because having flaws is being human. and that ties in to the whole core of feminism that is: treat women like humans.

[heartofstanding]

I'm so bored of feminist retellings that are, "it's basically the same but now she kicks butt cuz she's a warrior!"

yes, women kicking butt is hot. but also "kicking butt" doesn't actually make a thing feminist.

[blubushie]

so, i figured i'd ask you as the resident sniper expert. i've seen some takes that sniper would have alot of toxic masculinity and i was wondering what you thought about that? i mean i guess you could take his feelings of not being big, hairy and muscular enough compared to the aussies around him and explore that concept further but that doesn't really read as toxically masculine to me? more like a feeling of insecurity really.

I don't think insecurity = toxic masculinity but I'll be honest, I'm also not entirely sure of what toxic masculinity even is? So I had to Google and check with my resident Favourite Feminist. Whoops. (Have patience with me I'm a simple bloke from the middle of nowhere, I'm not well-versed in these kinds of politics.)

And, uh... Nah not really.

I'm just a humble bloke from the bush, who was coddled from birth and insisted my parents teach me to be independent not because I'm a man but because I had to be, so bear with me here, but...

I don't see Sniper as being into his whole masculine shit because he has to be but rather because he just enjoys it. It's fun to go hunting, it's fun to go camping. Would he have insecurity because he's not "as manly" as other Australian men? Yeah, sure. But I think that's less a masculinity thing and more just a cultural thing outright. It's not necessarily that he's seen as "less of a man", but rather that he's seen as less of an Australian. So, like... Iunno it's more a nationalistic thing than a masculinity thing.

Sniper's "masculine extremes" don't really feel like extremes to me as someone who grew up in the bush. They just feel like normal shit people who live in the bush do. You have to be self-reliant out here. There's some toxicity to his voice lines, but... Well, it's the 60s. C'mon. He's a product of his era and ocker outback Australia. Hell there's places back of Bourke still like that. Behaviourally he's really normal.

Basically, to sum it up:

Not all masculinity is performative and sometimes people just enjoy being masculine and aren't being that way to make up for some perceived failure of being a man. The same way some people just enjoy being feminine and aren't just being that way to make up for some perceived failure of being a woman. I think Sniper's in that category—he does what he does not because he feels it's required of him to be a man, but because he enjoys it. Sure, maybe he started doing it because he felt like he had to compensate by behaving a certain way or doing certain things, but I don't think that's held out to present with him at ~30 years old. Much in the same vein, I started doing rodeo to impress a girl. Rodeo's outlasted that girl. I started it for a dumb reason but I ended up falling in love with rodeo as a result, and now I ride just for me because I enjoy it.

Also you've kinda gotta consider why certain things are considered masculine and it's often because men do them. Beer is considered a men's drink because more men drink beer than women do. (Amusingly women on average have a higher sensitivity to bitterness than men do, so this may be why.) Mechanicry/cars are seen as a manly hobby because more men are into them than women are. Is camping, or hunting, or firearms, or gym, or grilling considered a male hobby because it's required of men to do them to be considered male, or are they considered a male hobby because on average, more men like those things than women do?

I don't hunt, or camp, or fish, or whittle, or drink whisky/work on cars/like firearms/cook/build shit/whatever-fucking-else because I feel like I have to. I just do it cuz it's fun. And maybe your average man and your average woman have different ideas of what fun is, so we gravitate towards different hobbies or lifestyles. But honestly I don't really care cuz people can do whatever they want with their lives. To each their own. Life's so short already, might as well spend your time doing shit you enjoy. Drink that beer! Work on that truck! Knit booties for your neighbour's newborn! Whittle a deer! Bake brownies! (I spent yesterday baking brownies.) Pop skulls at 800yd! Bake that peach cobbler in a frilly apron because it's comfy and don't you give a FUCK who sees you because you're having fun and that's what matters at the end of the day! Everyone else can eat your jorts.

Anyway for better input, uh... @mtraki She's got better thoughts than I do and actually knows more about this stuff (toxic masculinity) than I do.

[feminist-furby-freak]

about this post of yours:

https://www.tumblr.com/feminist-furby-freak/741545317484347392/even-from-the-same-sources-nhs-and-cdc-mens?source=share

why are TIMs not advocating for "people w prostates" and "ppl w testicles" language too? cuz isn't that also "misgendering"? (maybe im misunderstanding the point of ur post though. like I get that they call "ppl w cervixes" inclusivity, and by them not doing it w men too, it's a double standard. is it abt controlling women, and how we identify ourselves as a group? I don't fully understand what their goal is for this "inclusivity" to be one way?

again, maybe im j misunderstanding the point of your post but I don't get -- if its abt being inclusive of misgendering -- it doesn't apply to both?

or is it not directly TIMs and instead like cis-identified males only caring abt using "inclusive" language when it doesn't interfere w what they want to do (call themselves men too and not "ppl w prostates")?

it j feels weird being yelled at all day (I'm exaggerating ofc) abt girldick, so why would TIM be okay w other stuff being j called men? (I'm assuming they are not okay w it, but I see it doesn't matter practically as people are still saying men and then "ppl w cervixes")

sorry for the long ask!! thanks for your help!

Ding ding ding. Yes this is a lesser discussed point. The double standard is proof that it is not about being invalidated or inclusivity. TIMs know that they are men and know that “men should be screened for prostrate cancer” applies to them. They whine about everything from not being included in period campaigns to individual lesbians not letting them rape her. They don’t complain about being included in men’s health because they don’t actually care abt inclusivity they just want to insert themelsves into women’s spaces. Not to mention, they have never had barriers to healthcare because of their sex so they don’t care. Removing the word women from medical language is about further breaking down the category and meaning of “women” and making it harder for us to organize and talk about our issues. That’s it.

TIMs hate the idea that there are some (now, very few) spaces and resources that are not and will never be accessible to them. The last remaining one is gynecology and obstetrics. That is why they have this campaign against “Women’s Health” as a field. As someone pursuing graduate education in the field yeah my degree is still called Women’s Health and Midwifery but in most academic spaces we do this stupid dance around language. My undergraduate women’s health journal changed to “gender minority to health” and said I couldn’t use a picture of a uterus with my article about childbirth because it’s exclusive. This is actually why I left. In a country where more women die every year from complications of birth, “activists” are campaigning to make it harder to discuss and research women’s healthcare. Soon it will be practically impossible to talk about women’s health at all. A few years ago when the gender movement had a shred of common sense the rhetoric was include trans women in everything except for women’s health because obviously that doesn’t apply to them. Unless people start speaking up in a few years they will probably rename the discipline entirely. TIMs are now showing up to OBGYN offices/clinics expecting to have their “neos” treated because “it’s practically the same.” I can assure you they are not and regular women’s health providers do not have training to provide care for those surgical creations. Anyway that’s my rant.