#and they CANNOT work through that because neither of them has the whole context

[suhyewon]

more unwell thoughts about the idea of healing and how the show intertwines it with truth and memory in different ways. under a cut because im going to TALK

i'm re-listening rn and i'm just approaching the end of season 1, and coming back to the beginning right after finishing the final season is just striking with how much dot and lily's relationship evolves over the course of the show. i mean, of course it does, but like........ the way lily shows up still so angry and hurt because of her mom leaving, and how much that shapes every part of their relationship especially at the start, and that hurt isn't gone by the end of the show but they're working on it. they understand each other better.

like, dot knows why she moved back to mount absalom, and the glimpse we get in 5.11 shows us how hard it was for her, but lily doesn't know that. she was a kid at the time. and at the start of the show she doesn't even believe (or doesn't want to) that dot cares about that, that it was hard for her, even that she's a good person. and learning the truth doesn't change the pain they both went through but it does let them start to rebuild a better relationship.

what about with wes and silas, who in their own ways have both forgotten their pasts? i don't think we know how long wes worked at fenwood with dot, but he spends a good amount of time just walking around completely unaware that he's dead. and you could argue that he's happy so it's fine, but there's just this huge chunk of his existence, of who he is, that he can't even begin to grapple with because he doesn't know about it. and how do you even answer a question like this - is it better to be unaware of something so monumental about yourself, if it means being happier? never thinking too hard about anything that might cause the facade to crumble, even something as simple as your home address? is that happiness real, is it worth it?

and silas being kind of the same but in the opposite direction, he doesn't remember what happened to him either but that just means he's walking around with this immense pain and sorrow he can't do anything about, because he doesn't know what caused it. and even so, he doesn't want to know - lily still has to talk him into it - because remembering might be the first step to healing but it's still going to fucking hurt. is that better? you'll never move past it but at least it won't get worse? (it always gets worse! "i'll lose control" "you've already lost it")

and that just..... circles back around ad infinitum. of course wes doesn't want to find out that he's dead! he seemingly disappears from the face of the earth once he does, just trying to deal with it all, with what this means, and then later with who he even is if he's an echo or a memory rather than a ghost. he has a complete crisis, which is completely reasonable, and it must have fucking sucked.

likewise silas, having to face what happened to him, knowing nothing except that it's going to be awful. blooms even tries to deny remembering it when lily says he does. having to relive all of your worst experiences just for the chance of peace after.

and likewise lily, coming to terms with her mom leaving and how much that continues to hurt her, but being able to acknowledge that it hurt dot as well. and that even though dot caused her all that pain, she's also not a bad person, and they love each other; even though it means letting go of her anger and resentment about it. like, that's also hard. anger can be validating. you were hurt. it is and will continue to be horrible. but being able to move past it means their relationship can start healing, too.

there's just something about all of that, how facing the truth can heal but first it's going to hurt. it's going to hurt because it means acknowledging the pain is there. it means acknowledging bad things happened. maybe it means having to relive something awful or realise that the situation you're in is way more fucked than you thought - but also acknowledging that denial is only going to make it worse.

it hurts first.

but you can heal.

[inkingthingsintotrees]

so, like, the bitter middle-class character is showing up more and people are not registering it?

I recently watched a video essay how Saltburn mostly falls short due to its inability to actually properly criticize class, and it got me thinking about the whole kerfuffle that happened with D20 fans about Fantasy High: Junior Year and specifically Kipperlily CopperKettle. Then, I finally got into Yellow Face by R.F. Kuang and saw the same character archetype in the narrator.

When I say the 'bitter middle-class' character I mean the type of character that is not extrodinary by any standards and blames any possible external factors for what they view as a 'failing'. Here's what I mean in narrative context: Oliver covets the type of social life and charisma Felix has and fixates on the wealth that Felix comes from as the source(Saltburn), Kipperlily thinks Riz's dad dying is an unfair advantage actually its pretty fair to assume she thinks all the heinous shit the Bad Kids had to deal with regularly were unfair advantages that gained them prestige they didn't earn through 'hard work' like she did(Fantasy High/D20), Juniper Hayward blames diversity and diverse stories as a whole as to why she has found no success as a white author in publishing compared to her 'friend' Athena who has found massive success through her writing (Yellow Face).

The three of them are meant to be wrong in the end because they were lashing out at those a flawed system chose to champion. But there's some block on really digesting these characters as being part of the 'bitter middle-class' and I can't tell if it's cuz so many people who consume this media are from the middle class or cuz people can't look deeper than the surface when it comes to the media that they consume.

In the case of Saltburn I can only assume that it was because Fennel doesn't know how to write anything that's particularly class-conscious and tried to dress the movie up at the very end like a thriller eat the rich film. The ending of the film really hurts it in the end, and I have trouble believing that it was properly workshopped to actually fit with the rest of the story. I have seen so many people take Oliver's final monologue and run with it, though. Either people use the closing monologue to condemn the way the film fails at being a class commentary, or they explain away the shortcoming with the argument of the film is that it is an upper-class horror story about the middle and lower class. But neither interpretation really acknowledges that Oliver as a character lied for attention both from Felix and his family but Oliver's parents as well (sure some of what they say is likely true but there is a good chance a decent amount of the information he feeds his parents is not the truth). Oliver spends 3/4 of the movie bitter about being mediocre in comparison to those around him at Oxford. Through his own perspective, he is putting in work that his peers can omit because of their wealth and Oliver's inability to be significant socially amplifies that bitterness. To Oliver there is only two ways to be 'interesting' at Oxford and that's to be rich and cultured or poor and traumatized.

Kipperlilly Copperkettle is real interesting just from a solid fandom perspective for me. So many fucking D20ers complained about the lack of redemption of any of the Rat Grinders but especially Kippers despite the fact that she's the one with the foulest mindset. Girl, you cannot be complaining about how people with dead parents get a leg up in life and expect any sort of sympathy. She's probably the best demonstration of this character archetype (would you call it archetype?) simply because Kipperlilly is just so deeply out of touch with reality. She's mad that the way she specifically approached adventuring doesn't get rewarded in the type of world that she's in and on top of that there is nothing else to make her standout amongst the crowd of other decent adventurers. Except Copperkettle Fourdogs is also one of those middle-of-the-road kids that's incredibly upset that none of their work will ever be recognized because it simply does not hold a candle to what other people are doing. I think this is why she got the amount of sympathy that she did from certain parts of the fandom too, a lot of y'all saw yourselves in her huh? Because it is a flawed system to be like: if you show up and do the work then you'll be acknowledged, and then turn around and require more because now everybody's done the work so who really deserves it now? But the way Kippers handled that by lashing out at some of the most traumatized kids in school not even about shit that happened while they were at school and being menaces but rather something that happened way before the Bad Kids were even a party is insane and out of touch. And sure you sort of see the work being put in by Jawbone to change that mindset but Kipperlilly doesn't care. She willingly accepts the rage in order to better dominate this group of kids she believes coasted into saving the world several times.

I forgot where I was going with this outside of : There is more than just eat the rich and wrongfully outraged rich people narratives when it comes to class, and I feel like this ignoring of a whole like a subgenre of narratives involving the bitterness surrounding what society deems worthy of interest.

Jesus Christ this is long I commend you if you got this far and didn't think I sounded like a total idiot because I definitly think that I sound like one at this point

[goodmiffy]

hope this doesnt come off as bad faith but what do you think of this quote??? i dont like it but ig i cant properly articulate my thoughts on why https://www(.)tumblr(.)com/librarycards/187079810359/librarycards-anti-prostitution-feminists-and

I also don’t like it and don’t agree with it, it would take a lot of dissecting and articulating to really express why, but I’ll try my best with the main reasons.

1. “work is being constantly re-inscribed as something so personally fulfilling you would pursue it for free”

This is working on the belief that having sex is or can be considered ‘work’, but the argument we make is that sex isn’t work, and work can’t be sex, because:

sex is by definition mutually involved and consensual, and that consent is freely given. that is a basic feminist understanding of what separates sex from rape. remember the idea that rape is not a ‘type of sex’ any more than drowning is a type of swimming. rape is antithetical to sex, because sex requires freely given consent. if the only reason you would agree to sex is through the offer of money, that consent isn’t freely given it is coerced. “B-but all labour is coercion through money- that’s the point” yes except coerced manual labour is coerced manual labour, coerced ‘sex’ is rape. anyone who claims these are the same thing, or that being penetrated to earn a living is the same as hauling pallets, is being completely disingenuous and has a vested interested in encouraging the idea that it’s the same thing (they want to convince women it’s the same so they will do it!). so essentially the reason i think sex cannot be ‘work’ is because sex cannot be coerced, and work is essentially coercion. ‘sex work’ is an oxymoron.

so no, we don’t all enjoy our jobs, we need to earn money to live and that’s why we work, sure. something being ‘work’ doesn’t necessitate wanting to do it for free, but sex absolutely does. that’s the principle of sexual consent.

reason 2: the false dichotomy being made between paid ‘sex work’ and unpaid labour. positioning these this way kind of implies they’re the only choices for women, “hey at least I’m being paid! the alternative is an unpaid internship which i can’t afford” but we would say well, both of those things are bad. neither is a good solution for women, neither empowers us or helps us enter and stay in the workforce. yes maybe it’s hypocritical that Equality Now, an anti-prostitution org advertises unpaid internships, however that is because it is a non profit, thus they rely heavily on volunteers and donations, and an internship is essentially a contracted period of volunteering. they might be a big organisation but it doesn’t mean they have money to spare, and that’s a sad reality for non-profits. it’s not the same as multi million dollar companies having internships. the same goes for the anti-slavery charity. it’s a fucking charity??

“The result of these unpaid and underpaid internships is that the women who are most able to build careers in the women’s sector – campaigning and setting policy agendas around prostitution – are women who can afford to do unpaid full-time work in New York and London. In this context, it is hardly a surprise that the anti-prostitution movement as a whole has a somewhat abstracted view of the relationship between work and money.”

yeah, it probably does mean that only women with some financial safety net can volunteer their time to work for these non-profits and charities full time. is that a bad thing? that’s the reality of most volunteer work, most people cant afford to not be paid to work. most who do volunteer do so part time, usually very few hours a week or even a month, and that’s very awesome of them, right? so women who have the capacity to volunteer full time (because that’s what an unpaid internship is in essence) choosing to do so, is just as fucking awesome, right? isn’t that good of them, so why are they being villainized (we know why). they could be doing anything with that time and they’re choosing to use it to help vulnerable women have more options in the workforce.

I don’t understand how that translates as an ‘abstracted��� view or lack of understanding of the relationship between work and money. it’s a very clear understanding, which is why they don’t want women to have to endure unwanted sex acts just to make a living. that’s why they advocate for better options for women. anti prostitution in those contexts doesn’t begin and end with making it illegal, in fact it doesn’t mean that at all. it is about creating opportunities for women in prostitution so they can leave, or criminalising soliciting rather than prostituting, to enforce the message that it’s wrong to buy and sell women, but women are not at fault for needing to resort to this to earn a living in a patriarchal misogynistic society. the work-money view is not ‘abstracted’ it is simple, everyone should be paid fairy for the work that they do. but to purchase ‘sex’ from a woman is to rent her body as though she is nothing but a sex object. and that is immoral. men who solicit are not employing women to work, they’re paying to use her for masturbation. if a landlord offered decreased rent in exchange for sex, most everyone would see the clear immorality and exploitation of that situation, but a woman agreeing to unwanted sex for pay because she needs that money to pay her rent, that’s different somehow? no, it’s still exploition. anti-prostitution is as much about men’s choices in exploiting women as it is supporting women in exiting the sex trade.

so i think fundamentally that quote has the intentions of anti-prostitution all backwards, they see it as prostituted womens’ livelihoods being taken away, but we’re advocating for a world where women do not need to be prostituted to earn a living and have opportunities for better, safer livelihoods. women should not need to endure unwanted ‘sex’ as a livelihood in the first place, and if there were more opportunity for women in the workforce, they wouldn’t need to. in essence they’re arguing that /of course they don’t enjoy it, but who enjoys their job? we do it because we have to get paid/ and i see that i totally do, but constant unwanted penetration is not a job, it is assault of the body and mind. it comes with constant misogynistic abuse and harassment and the risk of STDs, some of which are life threatening. it takes a physical and emotional toll that no other manual job can compare to, and if those women could earn a decent living doing something else, the vast majority would. and the first hand evidence from prostituted women supports that notion.

[tobiasdrake]

Heading home from the case. Wherever "home" may be now.

Unfortunately, yeah. Dude wasn't sympathetic in the least, but the slaying did ultimately end up accomplishing nothing whatsoever. Not only did it fail to bail us out of our jam in any way, but he'd already been apprehended by the Master Detectives.

In the same way Icardi killed Shachi for shits and giggles, so too did we kill Icardi for shits and giggles. Neither of these deaths had any meaning to them.

As a matter of fact, yes. For reasons we cannot go into or else the mouth of oblivion will open up and swallow us whole.

That's sweet, Kurumi, but you have no idea what Yuma actually did. This is your second time trying to offer post-Labyrinth "You're actually a true hero through and through!" counseling while being utterly oblivious to the fact that Yuma's a serial murderer.

That's. Kind of. Important context for this conversation that's going right over your head. Nothing you say here holds any weight because you can't possibly understand what you're actually talking about. You think he's just being moody about finding answers. You could not possibly be more wrong.

You're sweet. But you're talking out of your ass for the sake of hollow flirting.

No, Yuma! That is a trap! People who are bold and unyielding in their wrongness cause much more harm than good! It is very important, in fact, to be right.

Do not fall for the Toxic Masculinity "Never Apologize, Never Play Defense" routine. It's good to doubt yourself. It's good to think critically about your own choices and wonder if you did the right thing. Especially if you're a murderer.

You're both idiots.

Hey man, chill it with the attitude. I'm the one out here getting intel, okay? You don't know this but I have a major client right now. Shachi knows tons of shit about the homunculus situation! And now that this whole case has been solved, all we need to do is swing by and--

...

...

Fubuki and I will go work for the coffee shop now. They're sure to enjoy my battery acid lattes. Have a good life, everybody.

No, you never said that was the emergency meeting place! You obviously didn't tell Fubuki that either! Well, okay, her memory is swiss cheese so that proves nothing. But still! This is on you, man.

Maybe you should go work for the coffee shop, Yakou.

How? I was on a train. It pulled in exactly when it was scheduled to pull in. A wizard is... *glances at Shinigami* A warlock is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

Swiss cheese, it is. That's fine. Cheese is a nice accompaniment to coffee.

They're whetting the palate for Vivia's chapter. Process of elimination says we get to go on on a mystery adventure with him next. I'm looking forward to it.

Strongly implying that his Forte is useful for letting him see things from a high vantage. Remote viewing? Astral projection? Turning into a bird? Who's to say.

In any case, it will be cool to finally get to--

And apparently this is now happening. This is fine. Halara, please merc all of them. You can put it on my tab. They might shoot Yakou while you're doing it but that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[tathrin]

A response to this ask; taken from this prompt; anyone can feel free to send other numbers in at any time, I don’t care how long it’s been. (Just maybe add some context to your ask if it’s been like a month or more since I posted this, because otherwise I won’t know what to do with the random number in my inbox).

#36....to give up control.

This one takes place within the setting of this fic. For those who have not and do not care to read it, the set-up is that it’s an AU where Boromir took the Ring to Denethor, Sauron surrendered to Gondor in chains and surely isn’t planning to pull a Nûmenor on them oh no and Gimli was forced to take Durin’s Ring and be appointed Lord of Erebor by Denethor to prevent Gondor from sacking the Mountain. Legolas is currently a captive of the Lonely Mountain, specifically Gimli’s captive.

Legolas hates the sight of that Ring. That band of gold, that glittering gem — it is loathsome against Gimli’s flesh, its beauty foul beyond measurement in Legolas’s eyes. The Shadow of its power lies between them like a haze, casting Gimli’s features into a strange veiled darkness whenever he puts it on...and as Lord of Erebor, he cannot often afford to take it off.

(Too, he does not want to. That is how those Rings work, Legolas knows. Part of Gimli wants to cast the wretched thing away...but part of him, Legolas knows, does not. And never, ever will.)

Legolas hates it.

But the Lonely Mountain lives under Denethor’s heel now, and the Lord Denethor would be angered if his thrall cast away the leash of that Ring, and Gimli cannot afford to bring Gondor’s wrath down upon his people — and neither can Legolas. He is a captive of the Mountain, yes; this terrible mountain where so many of his people are held cruelly, and killed more cruelly. That does not mean he wants every dwarf in Erebor to die, does not mean he wants to watch their mountain burn the way the woods of Lothlórien burned; the way Mithrandir burned.

Does not mean he wants Gimli to die.

(Never, never wants that.)

But, oh, how he hates the sight of that Ring upon Gimli’s strong and skillful hand, hates to see the Shadow of its evil thought dull the brightness of his sight. Hates to feel the icy heat of its metal against his own skin, when Gimli takes his hand or touches him.

There is more of that now that they have found this desperate solution to the problem of Legolas’s captivity. Before, when Legolas was merely locked in Gimli’s chambers, he was always careful — oh, so careful! — to remove the Ring. But now that Legolas walks the halls of the Lonely Mountain behind Gimli, they do not have that luxury. If Gimli’s people are to truly believe that their lord keeps this elf as a precious pet of his own — if they are to convince Gondor that that is why Legolas has not been slain with the rest of his people — then they cannot allow themselves such comforts.

So Legolas has learned to brace himself against the touch of that foul gold against his skin, the whisper of it between his ears. He cannot hear the Thing, not clearly; not the way Gimli can. But when the Ring touches him, flickers of its thoughts break through; whispers, low and soft and terrible. It is a Thing of selfish greed and coveting bitterness and furious jealousy. The scrape of its sinuous words in Legolas’s mind is a thousand times worse than the brush of its metal sides against his skin...

But he cannot recoil from the touch of the Lord of Erebor, the dwarven lord who owns him. (It is a lie, of course; but it is also a truth, too, for while Legolas wears no chains anymore, he is not free. He cannot leave without Gimli’s permission, and Gimli does not have the power to grant him freedom, not without dooming the whole of the Mountain. They are both of them prisoners here.)

So when Gimli takes Legolas’s fingers with the hand that bears the Ring, Legolas lets him. When the gem of it blinks brightly in the torchlight that illuminates these underground halls, casting its Shadow over the brighter gleam of Gimli’s eyes, Legolas smiles as though his heart is not breaking at the sight.

When Gimli takes Legolas’s chin in his marvelous, strong, broad fingers, and the frigid heat of that fell metal pressed against his skin runs up through his veins and makes him shudder, Legolas leans down into the kiss, and closes his eyes against the tears that long to fall at the sight of his beloved Gimli chained to such darkness.

At the terrible truth of Gimli bowing to evil to save his people.

Legolas closes his eyes and leans into the kiss, as though if he only sinks deep enough into the warmth of Gimli’s heart he will find a core of fire strong enough to burn away the Shadow that shrouds his dear dwarf; the Shadow that lies over the whole Mountain, slowly eating the goodness of these stalwart dwarves away so that only greedy, selfish shells remain. As though if he surrenders himself to Gimli’s kiss, he can forget all the other surrenders and defeats that have brought them both to this place.

As though he can still be safe in Gimli’s arms.

It is a lie. But it is a lie that Legolas would give nearly anything to have become the truth.

The Ring whispers empty promises to him, offers to do just that. Legolas shudders, knowing that it cannot — and knowing, too, that it is only the knowledge that Durin’s Ring cannot stand against the One in the White City that owns it that keeps the offer from tempting him. Legolas had thought it terrible, on that desperate Quest that failed, to have the One Ring whispering its offers to him in the darkness of the empty night, but there was nothing that it could promise to give him that he wanted and so its words were thin and weak and easily ignored.

This is different. This is harder, because this is Gimli.

His dear, beloved Gimli. Legolas whimpers into the kiss, and Gimli draws back enough to wipe his thumb across Legolas’s cheeks, soothing away his tears.

When Legolas opens his eyes again, he sees the glimmer of their wetness on the gem of Durin’s Ring, bright as mithril in the torchlight, and thinks that he has never seen anything so terrible.

Then he looks up, and sees the Shadow in Gimli’s smiling eyes, and that is so much worse.

It is easier to sink down into the kiss again than it is to look upon the sight of his beloved dwarf so marred by Shadow; easier to drape himself across Gimli’s lap and curl down to part the soft braids of that beautiful beard and press his lips to Gimli’s; easier to let himself drown in the warmth of wide dwarven arms folded tight around his waist; broad dwarven hands spread strong against his back and curled across his knees; to let himself be held by those hands, so wide and strong that they might cradle a whole mountain in the protection of their palms, were it not for that terrible band of gold curled so dark upon them.

It is so much easier to simply surrender.

The fight, after all, was lost years ago. All the world is darkness now; all save the comforting embers of Gimli’s arms around him, Gimli’s lips upon him, Gimli’s braids draped across him. So much easier to surrender, when you have already lost.

Durin’s Ring whispers its seductive offers in Legolas’s ear and he closes his eyes and kisses Gimli harder. It is what the Ring wants, of course, but it is what Legolas wants too—or at least, is as close to what he wants as he will ever come in this world fallen so far into Shadow.

Hope is dead. So he kisses Gimli, chasing its last fading embers into the dark.

[not-that-dillinger]

Hope the random question is okay! Does Ed have any positive childhood memories or just positive memories in general of his mother or father?

Random questions are always welcome!

Ed has very few memories of his mother because she divorced his father when he was 10 and he never saw her after that. But she once pulled him out of school for a day to go to the aquarium when she found out he wasn't allowed to go on the school field trip because he got in trouble for something he didn't do (that happened a lot, unfortunately...)

She also liked to take him for walks in the park after school, and his collection of Sherlock Holmes was probably hers. He also has her collection of Mark Miller Traveller Rule books. She was probably planning to play that with him when he was older. I like to imagine they regularly had game night on the weekends when she wasn't at work.

Ed's favorite tea is chamomile-lavender with licorice root because that's what his mother used to make him when he had nightmares.

As for his father... I really have a hard time seeing Ed having any positive memories of him, but I know there's gotta be something... Else IDK how he would have survived through high school. (Also any positive memories would just make everything else hurt so much more...) He probably has more positive memories of his father's assistant, Peter, than he does of his father.

The problem with Dillinger Sr. is I cannot imagine him doing ANY of the stereotypical father-son bonding things. Sports? IDK maybe cricket? Definitely not (American) football; man's too British for that. Baseball? IDK maybe? Fishing? I can't see him enjoying sitting outdoors much. Nor can I see him enjoying getting his hands dirty to fix a car or something like that. Video games are also out of the question.

...Maybe watching old episodes of Doctor Who or Monty Python or some other old British film or something.

I do like to imagine... Okay. Context: so usually Dillinger Sr. would have Peter watch Ed when he was away on business trips, but there were times where Peter couldn't, and Sr. would have to take Ed with him. It wasn't super often, but it did happen maybe once a year or something like that. Between not liking loud noises or confined spaces or crowds... Or his father, lets be honest... airports when Ed was a kid were generally miserable times.

But I like to imagine there's one time, probably in May or June when Ed's in high school (IDK maybe a junior?) that Sr. has a business trip in Europe that would last a week, and he planned a surprise vacation for the two of them. Ed was dreading it because he'd be stuck in close quarters with his father for a week with no escape, and he was going to have to miss out on the theatre club's final production of the year (no, he never told his father he did theatre).

The business trip isn't terrible. Ed spent most of the time cooped up in the hotel room, reading e-mailing his friends or something. It's lonely, but as far as these trips usually go, it's probably one of the better experiences he's had.

They go on a fancy tour of Europe (you know what I CAN see Sr. doing now? Going to the Louvre. Just for the privilege of being able to say he's seen the Mona Lisa up close and personal...) and hit all the tourist must-see's. The whole trip is weirdly pleasant. Neither of them talks much, but from what little conversation they do have, Sr. definitely realizes he does not know his son AT ALL. He indulges Ed a little. They have fancy dinners and deserts, and Sr. lets Ed buy all the post cards to send to his friends and practically anything he wants (they're mostly gifts for his friends). Ed gets to meet and visit his grandparents for the first time in England, and his grandfather takes him to see a West End showing of Les Miserables.

The whole trip is pleasant enough that Ed thinks maybe things will be different when they get back home.

Except then they do go home, and Sr. goes back to work, and they fall back into the same old patterns...

[highlifeboat]

I saw your post about Sara being new to some aspects of sex (cause ye olde religious village) and had a thought:

One of the most common things you see in highly religious areas like that is the belief that sex is only for procreation, not pleasure. Which is why you gotta be married. And sometimes that gets twisted into younger folk believing that if you have sex while married, you'll have babies, but if you're not married, you won't. Cause you gotta be married to have babies, yeah?

All this is a long winded way of saying it'd be hilarious for Sara to be told that you don't have to be married to have kids by Daniela/Max and therefore wondering if she's gotten pregnant yet. Or expecting to be.

(Cause Max is a man and maybe they also told her some women can impregnate other women. She's a bit confused but she got the spirit)

Alternatively (more angst potential): She finds out Daniela and Max are married (cause lbh they would do an equivalent at some point) or that Mia/Alcina are and wonder why they have no babies yet. Cause marriage = babies.

(Several, potentially angsty, talks have to be had. Also in this context she didn't know Mia was trans, she just deadass thinks if you're married you can have kids together, full stop)

Okay, I need to touch on both aspects of this.

For the funny aspect; Abso-fucking-lutly love that.

Just the idea that they were somehow on the topic and Sarah went "At least we are not married. No fear of pregnancy." And Max and Daniela kinda look at each other. Like, yes, there IS no fear of pregnancy, but not for the reasons Sarah believes. So they tell them "Uh... Sarah, you can get pregnant without being married." And Sarah is like ":) ...What :)"

Cue the snippit version of a sex ed class for Sarah, who really only took away "You don't need marriage to have babies. Babies happen just with unprotected sex." And now they think that they're going to get/are pregnant because they've been having all this unprotected sex. Despite the fact neither Max nor Daniela have the right bits to actually GET them pregnant in the first place.

And just fucking IMAGINE them going to their sisters in a panic

"SISTERS! SISTERS!!"

"Sarah, what is-"

(Distressed) "I MAY BE WITH CHILD!!!"

"W H A T??"

Winnie and Mary almost kill Max (because he IS the man. So obviously he's the only one that could get Sarah pregnant) and him and Daniela have to explain to all three of them that NO Max CANNOT get Sarah pregnant. That just isn't how this works. They still don't fully understand, but they don't try killing Max anymore.

I do love the angst potential too, especially with Mia and Alcina but I'll get to them.

I love the idea that Daniela and Max kind of tell Sarah they're married ("married" more in a common law sense than actual ceremony, but they would probably have rings and refer to each other husband/wife), and Sarah is kind of like "Oh! Lovely! But, may I ask, why hast thou not had children?" And they're both confused but Sarah just says "Surely thou hast thought about it. What other reason wouldst thee be married?"

And... Dani and Max have probably entertained the thought before. Or at least Max probably has. He's always kind of wanted kids, but given the circumstances he's in he hasn't entertained the idea in a while. Because they can't. Unless they could convince someone to be a sperm donor, and even then Max isn't sure he'd be willing to go through with a pregnancy (because, y'know, Daniela doesn't really have the ability to carry a kid).

That whole train of thought aside, and probably to avoid going down a spiral, they'd probably just tell Sarah that they got married for love, not for procreation. And Sarah... is confused, but they do think it's a nice thought to marry without the idea of children.

In terms of Mia and Alcina, though, I think they have more angst potential.

Because I personally think Alcina has always wanted kids, and to have the experience of being pregnant and giving birth. She adores her daughters, of course, and she's very grateful they exist as a part of her life, but there's still that lingering of something missing. But now with the mutations she can't get pregnant at all (what a cruel joke because now she has a partner actually capable of doing that), and she's pretty much come to terms with it. She's grateful for her daughters, whether she birthed them or not. She still gets to be a mother all the same.

Mia isn't quite in the same boat, but let's be honest her track record with kids is... sketchy. I feel like being a parent to actual children scares her. (I think Ethan wanted kids more than Mia. My excuse for Rose being non existent in the Miacina verse is that Ethan lives and he's mainly raising Rose. Mia does care for Rose, though.)

Sarah asks why they don't have children, and their initial response is "We do?" and Sarah points out "Yes. But not with each other. Why is that?" and they're both kind of thrown off by the question.

Alcina's hit with this familiar pang of hurt, and Mia kind of fidgets. They're both uncomfortable, and Sarah staring at them is not helping. They eventually settle with "[Alcina's] daughters are enough for us." and move on from the question but now there is this lingering... tenseness.

Mia can tell Alcina is bothered by it way more, though.

[bookwyrminspiration]

Mastermind by Taylor Swift (Yes, she's back to haunt you) for Sofitz, please

I simply cannot escape Taylor Swift and at this point I should probably stop trying. But I can 100% see the connection between the two!

The whole first verse fits Sophie and Fitz's meeting so well: "Once upon a time...all the stars aligned / You and I ended up in the same room / At the same time." That's how they found each other! Yes, there was some element of orchestration, but anyone could've been the one to find Sophie. It just so happened to be Fitz, everything aligning for it to be the two of them in that museum, no one else. Focusing on that "once upon a time," it's unreal to both of them; Fitz can't believe this girl is the one, and Sophie can't believe this whole other world is real and that this boy is taking her to it. It's a fairytale for them.

Then you can take the "What if I told you none of it was accidental" line in the context of sophitz to apply to how orchestrated this fairytale is. Because she'd always belonged in a different world and because he'd been looking for her. As fantastically as their meeting seemed, it was methodic, meticulous, the result of a thousand different pieces working behind the scenes. It's almost like in this interpretation, neither Sophie nor Fitz are the mastermind. Instead, they're the pieces moved around by the masterminds, and the masterminds aren't intending to put them together, but that's what's happening.

There's also the "This is the first time I've felt the need to confess / And I swear / I'm only cryptic and Machiavellian 'cause I care," which can be applied to how novel and intense this is for the both of them. This is the first time either of them has had to be so open with someone else and to take that step, the first time that step has even been an option. And they're dancing around everything and it's all cryptic and subtlety because neither of them wants to mess it up. They care, so they try not to blunder into it and have no clue what they're doing but want to do it anyways.

It's such a sweet way to look at their relationship and what they mean to each other, everything moving around them as they, terrified, chose to take that move closer to each other, to give it all they've got. They don't want to mess it up, trying to think everything through, but pulled forward by the intensity of their feelings. I love them, your honor :)

[hyperfixationtimego]

Can you at least list down what exactly is accurate or not with Mindy? No offense but a lot of these posts that defend Mindy don't even provide sources of their own. So for ppl like me that barely know her, my knowledge comes from Jewish, Muslim, Black, Trans people that repeatedly point out the bigotry in her shows by providing source and timestamps. I can't go by anything with people telling me she is not that bad

I mean, the whole point of me wording the posts as generally as I did was to encourage people to look shit up for themselves instead of lazily expecting some random social media user to tell them exactly why and how to think, but sure yeah whatever.

“She’s a TERF/She’s transphobic.”

we’ll start with the one I’m most qualified to talk about, considering that I myself am a trans person.

the whole accusation of her supposedly being transphobic occurred after she allegedly liked this tweet by JK Rowling, who - as can easily be confirmed just based on a quick scroll through her twitter history - is a known TERF.

Notice how the tweet itself never specifically refers to trans people, though. Like, yeah, us queers know the context & hatred behind, but if you yourself are not LGBTQ+ and are thus not necessarily up to date on all the discourse & issues being discussed by the trans community, the tweet itself just reads like a well-known children’s book author giving a snippy, self-assured response to someone else’s complaint about her work/life.

i’m not linking to kaling’s twitter because. frankly I find this complaint about her to be one of the stupidest and I simply cannot be bothered, but if you do check it out you’ll find that she’s since unliked the goddamn tweet AND that she’s not actively following Rowling, because hey guess what.

Kaling has normal opinions about trans people, actually.

In 2018, Josie Totah - one of the stars on Kaling’s show Champions - came out as a trans woman, and in response, Kaling voiced support & excitement for her, and mentions her admiration for Totah’s talent & an excitement for the idea of being able to work with her again, publicly establishing herself as an ally & inherently supporting the idea of working with trans people in the industry.

Here’s the tweet btw!

So….yeah. Kaling’s not a TERF lmao she’s literally just. a cis woman who didn’t know all the context.

“She’s antisemitic.”

this is the other one I had already looked into beforehand, so for the sake of my sanity it’s the one we’re covering next 👍

As far as I’m aware, this claim was spurred by the way a Jewish character was depicted in Never Have I Ever, a Netflix show created by Mindy Kaling and Lang Fisher.

You know who Lang Fisher is? Yeah, neither does anybody else who’s been accusing Kaling of hating Jewish people, apparently.

Isn’t it funny how, of the two of them, the brown woman had her shit completely dragged, but the white woman of equal title & responsibility in the creation of the show is hardly ever acknowledged or brought up 🙄 /s

Anyway, I’m gonna preface the next part by stating for the record that I’ve not yet had the opportunity to watch Never Have I Ever for myself, and thus I won’t be able to comment on any thematic or narrative decisions within the show.

Here’s an article written by journalist Mira Fox, detailing the problematic depiction of that Jewish character I mentioned, and here’s a direct response to that article, written by Dr. Karen E. H. Skinazi, a Jewish woman & associate professor of literature & culture. Skinazi argues that, while far from perfect, the inclusion of Jewish stereotypes in respect to that specific character still manages to contribute to the show’s overall themes of diversity, individuality, & acceptance.

The nuance of these two reactions is really important - Dr. Skinazi’s testament that the depiction of Ben’s character serves a greater purpose to the impact of the show as a whole, instead of simply existing as a way for the creators to express a dislike or hatred for Jewish people, makes it fairly apparent that Kaling & Fisher’s intent with the character was noble, even if their execution of the concept ended up missing a mark here or there.

In addition to that, I feel that it is very important to mention Kaling’s close personal relationship with B.J. Novak, who is himself a Jewish man and also the literal godfather of Kaling’s children.

Does this mean that Kaling is outright incapable of engaging in antisemitic behavior? Of course not! But at the very least, I do feel it’s indicative that Kaling is not actively trying to insult Jewish people or put them down, and that needs to be acknowledged.

Now, I personally have not encountered claims of Kaling specifically being antiblack or islamophobic, but considering that you did not provide me with specific things you wanted me to look into other than the very tall order of “what is and isn’t accurate about her,” and that you mentioned that your knowledge of her is specifically coming from “Jewish, Muslim, Black, [and] Trans” people, I’ll tentatively assume that the Black & Muslim people you’ve spoken with were perhaps providing evidence for some other complaints entirely. If there is evidence of her touting that kind of bigotry, though, please let me know! It’s important to be accurate with this kind of stuff!

I DO want to touch on what you’ve said about about timestamps, though; they’re far from reliable sources of information, especially when dealing with the realm of comedy. Context is EVERYTHING - you have to be aware of the overall message being told to the audience. You can’t just quote the setup to a joke and then refuse to acknowledge its punchline when it’s delivered; they’re both serving a purpose to what the speaker or performer is trying to express.

There were a few other claims that came to mind that I considered touching on, but frankly this post is already stupidly long and it really is not my responsibility to teach you guys how to appropriately interact with the information you are presented on the internet.

You can tell me if you want, and I’ll do my best to fact-check whatever it is, but if you aren’t gonna give me specific claims or accusations to work with, find and corroborate the answers for yourself. I’m not your mom, dude.

[curtklingermanposts]

Signs, Wonders and Jerks

Stamp of Approval?

Is it God’s personal stamp of approval when He does signs, wonders and miracles though individuals? It’s important for people to think critically on this one, because it can lead to self-deception if they miss it. Jesus answers the question for us in Matthew 7, which should probably give everyone pause.

Matthew 7: 21-23 Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.

It’s interesting to note that many who practice unrighteousness have prophesied, cast out demons, and did wonderful works in the name of Jesus. The Lord did not say these are false, or lying signs and wonders. However, these people were still considered transgressors. In fact, He said in He never knew them, which means they were never intimate with Jesus, which does give us a clue.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of Him.   

Not everyone’s motives are altruistic, and that is what makes the difference. It does not mean someone actually loves Jesus, just because he or she operates in His name. Of course, one might ask, how is it possible for someone to do that, and yet be a transgressor? We’ll address that one in a moment.

First, let’s deal with the issue at hand. As always, it is important to keep things in context with the chapter, and of course, the entire Bible. Look at the previous verses in Matthew. In them, Jesus addresses the strait (correct spelling) and narrow way, as well as false prophets. Here’s where He emphasizes the importance of differentiating between types of fruit. These ares are all connected.

Matthew 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

God is more concerned with our ways than our works. Works do not always reveal the true character or nature of the individual. We see it all the time. People have a public persona, but their private lives are a mess. Church history has shown this to be true. By the way, this did not mean the message or miracle was not from God.

 Even in more recent times, we’ve seen numerous instances of God using people in mighty ways; only to discover their lifestyles didn’t match the message. Some had the proverbial celebrity status (some still do). Others were lesser known. They were put on pedestals where they did not belong. Unfortunately, many were following personalities, and fell away when their heroes fell. Regardless of what others may or may not do, we need to follow Jesus.

Though it’s not our subject matter, it is noteworthy to say God is moving in such a way where there are no more superstars in the Church. He’s operating in the Body at large, through everyone. Some individuals may stand out to various degrees, but they recognize the importance of always pointing to Jesus.

How is it Possible?

You might be asking, how is it possible for someone to live an ungodly lifestyle, and still be used? The simple answer is the name of Jesus, gifts and His Word work, regardless of the individual. Here’s one biblical example: Caiaphas.

John 11:49-52 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also He should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Notice it says Caiaphas didn’t speak of himself. It was the anointing associated with the office of High Priest that did the work; not Caiaphas, himself. By the way, anointing means a smearing (of oil), or endowment of the Holy Spirit, by which one is able to do something of which they are called. In short, God-given ability. Grace works the same way, as it’s the unmerited favor of God that enables people to do the things of God they cannot do on their own.

On the surface, Caiaphas might look righteous because he prophesied; however, he also cried, “Crucify Him!” As you might recall, Jesus had a lot of negative things to say about the religious leaders of His time on earth. Many fell woefully short. Another quick example would be Sampson. God used him in mighty ways, even though, he was rebellious (see Judges 13-16).

 Here’s a bonus: Read Matthew 10:1-11:1, and you will find Judas went about preaching the Kingdom of Heaven, healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, raising the dead, and casting out demons alongside the other 11 apostles. When Jesus declared one of them would betray Him at the Last Supper, none of the other disciples discerned it would be him, until he was exposed. Outer appearances can be deceiving. Even after ministering alongside the others, it still didn’t end well for him.

Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to His Own will?

God will always confirm His Word, and that means the gifts, miracles, signs and wonders all point to Him. They are meant to glorify Him; not individuals! In essence, these same things are meant to manifest through disciples of Jesus Christ, who love and walk humbly before Him. It’s important for all of us to consider our ways.

perfectfaith.org

[is-today-tomorrow-in-nz]

Sex trafficking seriously? What is wrong with people? This shows how the antis are just playing an elaborate game of chinese whispers. While antis use fancy heresays, Darklina stans produce excerpts from the actual book along with their sound analysis.

What I hate about it is that they take acts of war as personality trait of a character. Aleksander did do questionable things, yes. But did he enjoy it? Did he get off on it? Did he do it for personal agenda? No. His actions were done to end wars and establish civil rights for his people.

The Fold - for Grisha.

The nichevoya - for Grisha so they real Grisha soldiers dont die in the front lines.

Stag Amplifier - taken out of context was a bad thing. But Alina ran away. Alina is a self-fulfilling prophecy. She ran away because Aleksander was bad which gave Aleksander no other choice but to act bad.

Genya - He gave her to the queen not because wanted to gain favours with the royals. And he certainly did not get any for it. Genya is neither corporalki nor materialki. He could have pushed her to follow one of the paths and made her into a regular soldier. But he saw the uniqueness of her skill. A oppourtunity to employ a unassuming child spy. And it worked for a while the Queen adored her and Genya was integrated well into the royal family. The problem arose when Genya became more beautiful than the ageing queen. Tatiana hated that Genya had a shortcut while she had none. Then when her rapist husband forced Genya, she could not care less about it. Because that was her way of showing her power over Genya. And what could the Darkling do at this point? Accuse the King of rape? Take away the queen's toy? How was he to know the Queen who treated her like a daughter a few years ago would suddenly turn on her? Was he a clairvoyent? Genya became a strategy that failed. But even then he gave her a choice and Genya chose revenge.

The problem with antis is they take individual actions without context and lay baseless accusations. The Darkling was the most hated person in all of Ravka. Time and time again LB has established this. He cannot charm Alina into falling for his whims, bend nobles to his will by drinking with them the whole night. So anytime he needs to gain a favour he has to strategise.

While antis see some of the war acts commited by Nikolai they are quick to forgive him because, he is human, he has shown remorse, he vomitted after cutting off a man's finger etc etc. so he is guilty. But was there any proof that the Darkling did not feel remorse or guilt? We are never shown his viewpoints. All of his acts are shown through Alina's bigoted lens. The antis see Darkling through Alina's victimhood and blame him. She is a victim, yes. But she's a victim of stupidity and poor writing.

LB muzzles Aleksander and expects us to hate him because she said so. While she allowed Alina to interact with Nikolai, see his perspective, learn his views, she denied that to Aleksander. She expected everyone would follow her will and will jump on the hate-train. But the Darklina stans proved her wrong. She hates Darklinas because we refuse to back down and call her out.

After spitting on all his achievements, she proceeds to write Demon in the woods. Telling how if he was not corrupted by time then it would been different. Seriously? He was not corrupted by time or power. He hardend because of the suffering of his people.

Just like the antis, LB screams about abuse, overcoming abuse etc etc then shucks Alina with Mal. That itself shows the bubble LB lives in. Malina is the most toxic ship but just like the Darkling we are supposed to coo about it because she said so.

So antis, next time, before you spout heavy words like trafficking, I suggest you to pick the actual book and connect the act with context. Then you will see why Aleksander kissing Alina and Nikolai kissing Alina are two very different things.

https://www.tumblr.com/wewillbehappyagain/649449712584376320?source=share

I don't even know what the fuck must I criticise among all this shit....

The OP saying that the Darkling is a sex trafficker and pedophile?

Leigh Bardugo saying that she didn't want to give Alina an abusive relationship while in the meantime she already did that with Mal?

Or that Leigh Bardugo thinks that the only way for Alina to be with Aleksander is because of his looks and not because....I don't know.... finds in him a person that she can be herself around him?

What must I suppose to say?

[tangleweave]

@brooklynislandgirl​ (xx)

Vision's efforts towards perfecting the sauce continue unabated while Beth pontificates on how her relationship with Groot was first established. He finds no particular offense in her putting forth the context of their first meeting, though he understands why she offers her apologies in doing so; he knows that she still feels guilt, shame, for not being on the Wakandan battlefield during Thanos' inexorable march towards him, intent upon ripping the Mind Stone from his forehead and completing the collection upon his gauntlet. Yet there is no evidence to suggest she could have stopped him, not when he had five of the six Infinity Stones already at his beck and call. No other had been able to do so. Even Thor, bearing the full might of Stormbreaker and burying its massive blade in Thanos' chest, had ultimately not stopped him. These are facts which exist, and although the records and data remain a part of him, Vision retains no emotional connection to those moments. It is merely a fact that the life of his prior self was put to an end when the Mad Titan's fingers crushed his frontal lobe.

His experience with emotion as a part of his integrated self begins, instead, with the moments following the release of the encryptions upon that data, thanks to his Hex-bound counterpart. And the first emotion he can recall is relief -- relief that he was allowed to be whole (inasmuch as he could be, without the Mind Stone). That the other Vision offered to make him so, when there should have been no reason for him to. Followed by confusion, and an overpowering need for flight... because there was no longer a reason for him to fight.

All of this, he considers in the hesitant span following the word 'Snap'. And he studies her face intently as she goes on to describe how she perceived the terrible silence and loss that followed in the minutes, days, weeks, and years afterward. Her capacity for emotion wildly outpaces his own, and hers lend such nuance and depth to the way she speaks that Vision is certain if he were human, he would be welling up with tears in sheer sympathy with her. He is working on understanding what he feels and how to manifest those feelings appropriately, and Beth is a capable teacher, but at this stage he feels burdened by confusion as to why she would smile when she addresses the revelation that no other could understand Groot but her.

As she continues to tell the tale, Vision is struck by how her answer has evolved from his initial question. What she offers him in reply is far more than how she would define her relationship with the Flora colossus; rather, it speaks to the shape of the life they shared, when neither could any longer stand to be on Earth. He does pick out that she wouldn't have characterized it as a romance back then, at least not in the sense most would understand it. Rather, it was companionship hard-earned through shared trauma. It is a story that is at once precious and devastating in its retelling. And now? Perhaps there remains no romance, but when she moves beyond explaining the effects of that trauma upon them, and speaks of how their relationship was built, Vision cannot help but concur by both the tone of her voice and the look on her face that what she feels for Groot is love, unvarnished and unrepentant.

He knows the kinds of questions some of the others would be thinking and yet afraid to ask. Surely Beth does, too... but Vision is not a gossip, and moreover, he has no one with whom to share what he gleans. It is purely for his own edification -- and unlike most, he feels no particular need to know just how Beth and Groot choose to express their love to one another. It is a mundane curiosity, in any event, and he elects instead to close the door upon speculation by waxing poetic to himself. Whether union of heart and sap or betrothal of flesh and vine, it is love unbounded... and that is all.

His interest lies in other places.

"Given that the emotional toll was so staggering for you both, and that he was able to show you all these wonders far beyond this world, one cannot help but be curious why you would be drawn back. But my sense tells me there would have been no more crucial moment in all of history for the both of you to wish to be here... than the day of the Blip." He levels his gaze at her. It is not beyond the realm of possibility -- nor even, he estimates, beyond any probability -- that Dr. Strange would call upon every ally possible to assist the Avengers in that climactic battle against the time-traveling Thanos and his armies.

"What, then, became of you and Groot, and the nature of your association, in the time that followed? Your planters here are rife, but I note not a one of them bears any remnant of him, nor have I seen him, nor any report thereof, since my reactivation. And... should he return, and invite you to join him once again among the stars... would you go?"

[sophieinwonderland]

To the OP:

Hate is rarely grounded in reason. Anti-endos love to give a ton of excuses to justify hate, but they all will fall apart on closer inspection.

Let me go over BrokenMirrorSystem's arguments to show what I mean.

A primary issue with Endos is most claim you can be a System without meeting the criteria(trauma dissociation, amnesia, etc...) and oftentimes will try and use the exact DSM-5/tr to point out the reasons or cultural appropriation.

Despite what they claim here, there is no clinical definition of what a "system" is. There is no official criteria to be "a system." You cannot be diagnosed with being "a system." And the word itself has pretty broad usage across psychology, such as in Internal Family Systems therapy that views everyone as a system.

You will never find a single paper anywhere that says you need to meet X criteria to be "a system." Trust me. I've been looking and asking anti-endos for sources on this for years to see if this claim had any water whatsoever.

Meanwhile, psychologists who are studying endogenic systems are using the word "system" to refer to endogenic systems.

There was recently an AMA on r/tulpas about a study being conducted by Stanford University that found neurological changes in tulpa systems while possessing limbs. The psychologists refer to these tulpa systems as systems.

Also, I assume when you (OP) refer to "forced systems," you're meaning created systems. In which case, you should definitely read through that AMA as the tulpamancy community is by far the largest community of created systems you'll find.

"DID/OSDD is backed by science and years of research. There is nothing to back Endogenics except by what made up terminology used by them."

Let's be Totally Clear: Academically, there is no debate about the existence of non-disordered and non-traumagenic plurality

You can be plural without trauma or a disorder.

This is phrased across academic works in a whole lot of ways across a whole lot of places.

In Transgender Mental Health, a book reviewed and published by the American Psychiatric Association, it's explicitly stated that you can be plural without trauma or a disorder.

In the World Health Organization's ICD-11, it's stated that you can have multiple "distinct identity states," which it describes as the characterizing feature of DID, without a disorder.

One former anti-endos even shared their correspondence with dissociative identity expert Colin Ross who said this about non-trauma multiples:

These are but a few examples. I could go on and on with sources supporting endogenic and non-disordered plurality if you'd like to see more.

And in all my time here, anti-endos have yet to provide one single credible source that says you need trauma to be plural.

Not even one doctor.

Seriously, ask anti-endos to name and quote a single doctor who has said you can't be plural without trauma and see what you get.

The most ironic thing is the person who coined the term Endogenic is an actual Traumagenic System who denied they're a System.

Yeah... this is another lie.

This is getting facts mixed up, and maybe intentionally obscuring some others.

It is true that The Lunastus Collective originally identified as endogenic and later realized they were traumagenic after coining the terms in 2014. This was not denying that they were a system though.

Moreover, the part about plural history this is obscuring is that the endogenic community existed since the 90s. The popular term before that point was "natural multiples."

System Medicalists at the time claimed that this was ableist because it implied traumagenic systems were "unnatural."

Personally, I think this was a bad faith attack on the community, and that anyone reading that in good faith would recognize that "natural" is being used as it would be in a "nature vs nurture" context. Essentially, that the antonym for natural wouldn't be "unnatural" with its negative connotations but "environmental." But that's neither here nor there.

There's a lot of history there dating back to the dawn of the internet, and you can check out @pluraldeepdive to learn more.

But the point is that the general concept of endogenic plurality predated the coining of the term by a pretty hefty margin.

In fact, "plurality" itself was a label coined and popularized by non-disordered systems, back at least as far as 1998

We don't claim that every multiple system/household is a happy loving cooperative one. What we do question is the *identification* of "real multiples" with the characteristics or symptoms of a psychological disorder. We go further: we question by what right or authority doctors and therapists are given sole jurisdiction over the definition of "an individual".

This is one reason our clan encourages use of the word "plural" rather than "multiple". "Multiple", even standing by itself, brings to mind MPD/DID, "multiple personality disorder", "dissociative identity disorder", which are specific diagnoses created by the medical/therapeutic community. "Plural" is a much more neutral word, more commonly heard in the context of grammar than psychiatry. (The other reason, of course, is that plural can be construed to have a broader meaning, applying to anyone(s) anywhere on the continuum who experience themselves as plural in some way. )

And yeah, syscourse has been going on at least that long.

A word of warning about antimisinfo

I noticed one of the comments suggested you go to antimisinfo for more information.

So I thought I'd give you a bit of background.

Antimisinfo, despite the name, is largely nothing but misinfo. It's ran by a minor with no background in psychology who also runs antiendovents. Their sources are bad. Their arguments are bad.

On the AEV blog, they claim to have never seen a single source proving endogenic plurality and in that same post said they don't bother reading endogenic sources, and just block them.

Which is a pretty big issue with someone who is pretending to be fighting against misinformation, when they just completely refuse to listen to the other side or read sources that might contradict their worldview.

They're not at all a unique case as far as anti-endos go, but most are at least self-aware enough to not say it aloud.

(Not to mention there was the whole incident with doxxing someone mainblog for criticizing them.)

I'm not asking you to not look at their blog, of course. I think you should absolutely hear both sides. But I think this context is important to understand.

If you do read their blog and come across their post claiming endogenic systems aren't valid, please be sure to read my response to that here:

The tl;dr is that their sources never actually touched on non-disordered endogenic systems in any real way at all, none of their sources are peer reviewed, many didn't have any names of doctors attached to them, and six of their 8 sources to prove DID is always trauma based used words like "often," "usually," and the like to imply that DID might be caused by things other than trauma sometimes.

It's terrible enough when you're relying on shoddy sources, but it's even worse when you can't find shoddy sources to support what you're claiming, and they're actively contradicting your arguments.

But their response to anyone who points out how much damage they're doing and how harmful the misinformation they spread is has been to block anyone who criticizes them or who provides sources refuting their lies.

The sad reality is that in order to protect and preserve their hatred, anti-endos have built up an impenetrable fortress of willful ignorance.

so I'm not particularly well versed in the working or drama of the internet- I've learned a lot about online discourse from my friends but something I'm interested in learning about and am currently educating myself in is systems (DID, OSDD, etc.). I have some basic knowledge of how and why most systems come about, but I'm learning lots of terminology and as I'm learning these things I'm also learning about some things that appear to have a lot of negative reception.

I would appreciate it if (actual diagnosed systems, Endo/trauma/quoigenic systems, or someone with reliable information like a scientist or therapist) someone could inform me of the problems with endogenic/quoigenic/forced systems? From what I know, they're non-traumagenic and have a lot of very negative reception within the system community.

I am not a system, but I do have an understanding of how and why systems come about and lots of systemic terminology.

If someone within this community could also tag some good blogs/systems that would be willing to help, that would be great. Anything is helpful, whether it be anti-endo or pro, anyone that can give me input. If you can tag anyone you know it would be awesome.

Much obliged,

liv (just someone trying to learn more about the world)

[pumpkinpaix]

mdzs fandom, diaspora, and cultural exchange

Hey everyone. This post contains a statement that’s been posted to my twitter, but was a collaborative effort between several diaspora fans over the last few weeks. Some of the specifics are part of a twitter-localized discourse, but the general sentiments and issues raised are applicable across the board, including here on tumblr.

If you’ve been following me for a while, you’ve probably seen a few of my posts about this fandom, cultural exchange, and diasporic identity. For example, here, here, and here. This statement more directly criticizes some of the general issues I and others have raised in the past, and also hopefully provides a little more insight into where those issues come from. I would be happy if people took the time to read and reblog this, as the thought that went into it is not trivial, and neither is the subject matter. Thank you.

Introduction

Hello. I'm a member of a Chinese diaspora discord server - I volunteered to try and compile a thread of some thoughts regarding our place and roles in the fandom expressed in some of our recent discussions. This was primarily drafted by me and reviewed/edited by others with the hopes that we can share a cohesive statement on our honest feelings instead of repeatedly sharing multiple, fragmented versions of similar threads in isolation.

This was compiled by one group of diaspora and cannot be taken to represent diaspora as a whole, but we hope that our input can be considered with compassion and understanding of such.

For context, we are referencing two connected instances: the conflict described in these two threads (here and here), and when @/jelenedra tweeted about giving Jewish practices to the Lans. Regarding the latter, we felt that it tread into the territory of cultural erasure, and that it came from a person who had already disrespected diaspora’s work and input.

Context

The Lans have their own religious and cultural practices, rooted both in the cultural history of China and the genre of xianxia. Superimposing a different religious practice onto the Lans amidst other researched, canonical or culturally accurate details felt as if something important of ours was being overwritten for another’s personal satisfaction. Because canon is so intrinsically tied to real cultural, historical, and religious practices, replacing those practices in a canon setting fic feels like erasure. While MDZS is a fantasy novel, the religious practices contained therein are not. This was uncomfortable for many of us, and we wanted to point it out and have it resolved amicably. We were hoping for a discussion or exchange as there are many parallels and points of relation between Chinese and Jewish cultures, but that did not turn out quite as expected.

What happened next felt like a long game of outrage telephone that resulted in a confusion of issues that deflected responsibility, distracted from the origin of the conflict, and swept our concern under the rug.

Specifically, we are concerned about how these two incidents are part of what we feel is a repeated, widespread pattern of the devaluing of Chinese fans’ work and concerns within this fandom. This recent round of discourse is just one of many instances where we have found ourselves in a position of feeling spoken over within a space that is nominally ours. Regardless of what the telephone game was actually about, the way it played out revealed something about how issues are prioritized.

Background

MDZS is one of the first and largest franchises of cmedia that has become popular and easily accessible outside of China. Moreover, it’s a piece of queer Chinese media that is easily accessible to those of us overseas. For many non-Chinese fans, this is the first piece of cmedia they have connected with, and it’s serving as their introduction to a culture previously opaque to them. What perhaps is less obvious is that for many Chinese diaspora fans, this is also the first piece of cmedia THEY have connected with, found community with, seen themselves in.

Many, many of us have a fraught relationship with our heritage, our language—we often suffer from a sense of alienation, both from our families and from our surrounding peers. For our families, our command of the language and culture is often considered superficial, clunky, childish. Often, connecting with our culture is framed as a mandatory academic duty, and such an approach often fosters resentment towards our own heritage. For our non-Chinese peers, our culture is seen as exotic and strange and other, something shiny and interesting to observe, while we, trapped in the middle, find ourselves uprooted and adrift.

MDZS holds an incredibly important place in many diaspora’s hearts. Speaking for myself, this is literally the first time in my life I have felt motivated and excited about my own native tongue. It's the first time I have felt genuine hope that I might one day be able to speak and read it without fear and self-doubt. It is also the first time that so many people have expressed interest in learning from me, in hearing my thoughts and opinions about my culture.

This past year and a half in fandom has been an incredible experience. I know that I am not alone in this. So many diaspora I have spoken to just in the last week have expressed similar sentiments about the place MDZS holds in their lives. It is a precious thing to us, both because we love the story itself, and because it represents a lifeline to a heritage that’s never felt fully ours to grasp.

It’s wonderful to feel like we are able to welcome our friends into our home and show them all these things that have been so formative to our identities, and to be received with such enthusiasm and interest. Introducing this to non-Chinese friends and fans has also been an opportunity to bridge gaps and be humanized in a way that has been especially important in a year where yellow peril fear mongering has been at an all-time high.  

History

However, MDZS’ rise in popularity among non-Chinese audiences has also come with certain difficulties. It is natural to want to take a story you love and make it your own: that’s what transformative fandom is all about. It is also natural that misunderstandings and unintentional missteps might happen when you aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of the culture and political history of the story in question. This is understandable and forgivable—perfection is impossible, even for ourselves.

We hope for consideration and respect when we give our knowledge freely and when we raise the issue of our own discomfort with certain statements or actions regarding our culture. Please remember that what is an isolated incident to you might be a pattern of growing microaggressions to us. In non-Asian spaces, Asian diaspora are often lumped together under one umbrella. In the west, a lot of Chinese diaspora attach themselves to Korean and Japanese media in order to feel some semblance of connection to a media which approximates our cultures because there are cultural similarities. This is the first time we've collectively found community around something that is actually ours, so the specificities matter.

There is a bitterness about being Asian diaspora and a misery in having to put up a united front about racial issues. Enmity towards one group becomes a danger to all of us, all while our own conflicted histories with one another continue to pass trauma down through the generations. Many of us don’t even watch anime in front of our grandparents because of that lingering cultural antipathy. When the distinctions between our cultures are muddled, it feels once again like that very fraught history is flattened and forgotten.

Without the lived experience of it, it’s hard to understand how pervasive the contradictory web of anti-Asian and, more specifically, anti-Chinese racial aggressions are and how insidious its effects are. The conflation of China the political entity (as perceived and presented by the US and Europe) with its people, culture, and diaspora results in an exhausting litany of criticism levied like a bludgeon, often by people who don’t understand the complicated nature of a situation against those of us who do.

There is often a frankly stunning lack of self-awareness re: cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to discussions of MDZS, particularly moral ones. There are countless righteous claims and hot takes on certain aspects of the story, its author, and the characters that are so clearly rooted in a Euroamerican political and moral framework that does not reflect Chinese cultural realities and experiences. Some of these takes have become so widespread they are essentially accepted as fanon.

This is a pattern of behavior within the fandom. It is not limited to any specific group, nor does it even exclude ourselves—we are, after all, not a monolith, and we should not be placed on pedestals to have our differing opinions weaponized against one another in fandom squabbles. We are not flawless in our own understandings and approaches, and we would appreciate it if others would remember this before using any of us as ultimate authorities to settle a personal score.

It is difficult not to be disheartened when enthusiastic interest crosses the line into entitled demand and when transformative work crosses into erasure, especially when the reactions to our raised concerns have so frequently been dismissive and hostile. The overwhelming cultural and emotional labor we bring to the table is often taken advantage of and then criticized in bad faith. We are bombarded with racist aggressions, micro and macro, and then met with ridicule and annoyance when we push back. Worse, we sometimes face accusations of hostility that force us to apologize, back down, and let the matter go.

When we bring up our issues, it usually seems to come with the expectation that there are other issues that should be addressed before we can address ours. It feels like it’s never really the time to talk about Asian issues.

On the internet and in fandom spaces, Western-coded media, politics and perspectives are assumed to be general knowledge and experience that everyone knows and has. It feels like a double standard that we are expected to know the ins and outs of western politics and to engage on these terms, but most non-Chinese have not even the slightest grasp of the sort of politics that are at play within our communities. We end up feeling used for our specialized knowledge and cultural background and then dismissed when our opinions and problems are inconvenient.

As the culture represented in MDZS is not a culture that most non-Chinese fans are familiar with, we’d like to remind you that you do not get to decide which parts of it are or are not important. While sharing this space with Chinese diaspora who have a close connection to the work and the painful history that goes along with being diaspora, we ask that you be mindful of listening to our concerns.

Cultural erasure is tied to a lot of intense historical and generational trauma for us that maybe isn't immediately evident: the horrors of the Pacific theatre, the far-reaching consequences of colonization, racial tensions both among ourselves and with non-Chinese etc. These are not minor or simple things, and when we talk about our issues within fandom, this is often what underlies them. This is one of the first and only places many of us have been able to find community to discuss our unique issues without feeling as if we’re speaking out of turn.

With the HK protests, COVID, the anti-Chinese platforms of the US election etc., anti-Chinese sentiment has been at the forefront of the global news cycle for some time now, and it is with complete sincerity that we emphasize once again how important MDZS fandom has been as a haven for humanizing and valuing Chinese people through cultural exchange.

Experiencing racial aggression within that space stings, not just because it’s a space we love, but because it feels like we’ve been swimming in rapidly rising racial aggression for over a year at this point.

Feelings

This is a difficult topic to broach at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. Many of us have a wariness of rocking the boat instilled in us from our upbringings, and it is not uncommon for us to feel like we should be grateful that people want to engage with something of ours at all. When we do decide to speak up, we’ve learned that there is a not insignificant chance that we’ll be turned on and trampled over because what we’ve said is inconvenient or uncomfortable. When it is already so difficult to speak up, we end up second-guessing and gaslighting ourselves into wondering whether there really was a problem at all.

We’d like to be able to share what we know about our culture and have our knowledge and experience be taken seriously and treated with courtesy. This is a beautiful, rich world built with the history of our ancestors, one that we too are trying to connect with. When we find it in ourselves to speak up about it, we would appreciate being met with consideration instead of hostility.

We don't have the luxury of stepping away from our culture when we get tired of it. We don't get to put it down and walk away when it’s difficult. But if you're not Chinese or Chinese diaspora, you get to put this book down—we'd like to kindly request that you put it down gently because of how much it matters to all of us in this fandom, regardless of heritage.

What we are asking for is reflection and thoughtfulness as we continue to engage with this work and with one another, especially with regards to how Chinese issues are positioned. When we raise issues of our own discomfort, please take a moment to reflect before reacting defensively or trying to shut us down for spoiling the fun—don’t deprioritize our concerns, especially in a fandom for a piece of Chinese media. We promise most of us are not trying to start shit for the sake of a fight. Most of the time, all we want is acknowledgement and a genuine attempt at understanding.

Our hope with this statement is to encourage more openness and understanding between diaspora and non-Chinese fans while we navigate this place that we’re sharing. Please remember that for many of us, MDZS is far more intense than a typical fandom experience. Remember that the knowledge we have and research we do is freely and happily given, and that it costs us both materially and emotionally. Please don’t take that for granted. Remember too that sometimes the reason for our discomfort may not be immediately evident to you: what seems culturally neutral and harmless might touch upon specific loaded issues for us. We ask for patience, and we ask for sincerity as we try to communicate with one another.

We are writing this because there’s a collective sense of imposed silence—that every time the newest round of discourse crops up, we often feel as if we’re walking away having created no meaningful change, and nursing new wounds that we’ll never get to address. But without speaking up about it, this is a cycle that will keep repeating.

This is not meant to shame or guilt the fandom into throwing themselves at our feet, either to thank us or beg for forgiveness—far from that. We’re just your friends and your fellow fans. We are happy to have you here, and we’re happy to create and share and play together. We just ask to be respected and heard.

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Several of us will be stepping back from twitter for a while. We’ll see you when we get back. ❤️

* A final addendum: here are two articles with solid practical advice on writing stories regarding a culture other than your own.

Cultural Appropriation for the Worried Writer: Some Practical Advice

Cultural Appropriation: Some More Practical Advice

The thread on twitter is linked in the source of this post. Thanks everyone.

[dutchdread]

Hi again, I'm the same anon from your last ask. So my next question then is why would you consider it to be a bad story if Cloud ends up with Aerith in the end? You also say Cloud and Tifa supposedly have something going on, but even if they did, Aerith doesn't know that. Neither Cloud nor Tifa tell anyone, or even show that there's anything going on between them throughout the whole story. Did you see that in Remake that Aerith even asks Cloud if Tifa is someone special and he says no?

Thanks for the question. Your question is comprised of two parts, why Cloud ending up with Aerith would be a bad story, and then the secondary part about Aerith not knowing about the history between Tifa and Cloud. I think understanding the later will be helpful to understand the former so I'll start with that. This goes back to what I said in my last reply concerning the difference between thinking someone is a bad person, and thinking they're a bad character. First off, let me just make clear that I don't judge Aerith too much concerning her behavior in the OG, since as you rightly state, she didn't really know that there was anything going on between Tifa and Cloud, she probably knew there was some attraction there, but nothing about the extent or the history. And if in the remake it turns out she's actually blissfully ignorant I'll be more lenient there as well. However, in my opinion the remake heavily implies she does realize there is a thing between Tifa and Cloud. You mentioned Aerith asking if Tifa was Clouds girlfriend, and him replying "no". However, as always, there is context here, for starters, the scene doesn't end there and then. Aerith replies knowingly "but she's someone special". Moreover the scene is also only one scene in a series of relevant scenes concerning Clouds relationship with Tifa, which starts with Jessie asking about who Tifa is too Cloud, this plotpoint then continues through Aeriths flower. When Aerith gives Cloud the flower she mentions that his girlfriend will love it, then later when Aerith asks him who he gave the flower to Cloud says he doesn't remember, and Aerith calls him out on the lie. The question is then answered when Aerith goes to the 7th heaven and discovers Cloud gave it to Tifa, prompting a smile from Aerith. She figured it out, actually, she probably figured it much earlier, but now it was confirmed. She had a hunch about Tifa, just like Jessie, Cloud was defensive at first, then evasive, but ultimately, Aeriths hunch was correct, Cloud gave the flower to Tifa. He can pretend all he wants, Aerith knows. Personally, I think she smiled because it reminds her of the future. Throughout remake Aerith is hinted to know more than she lets on, and that's especially true concerning Tifa and Cloud. When Tifa is kidnapped she pushes Cloud to go after Tifa, calling Tifa Clouds special person. If I recall correctly she even uses the same terminology that she used to describe Elmyras husband. She actively tries to make Tifa jealous by calling Cloud her bodyguard, and then she straight up tells Tifa to follow her heart. She gives me the distinct impression that she knows perfectly well where Cloud and Tifas hearts lie, and is trying to push them into action. This is borderline confirmed during the Aerith resolution where she basically straight up admits to knowing more about Clouds feelings than she actually should, assuming you think that this apparition is at least somewhat related to the current Aerith in some manner. The thing that really clenches this in my opinion is a trace of two pasts, where Tifa straight up tells Aerith about her and Clouds history. If Aerith doesn't get it by then, then she's being willfully ignorant. But lets say she does indeed not know, that would to some degree absolve her as a person. But it would still make her a bad character, because WE, the audience, know. We know that Cloud is supposed to end up with Tifa, we know that's how the story goes. And when you rewrite old stories in such a way that you take things away from one character, just to give more to another character, you run the giant risk of insulting the characters involved. You see this in things like the star wars sequels, where they effectively character assassinated Luke Skywalker in order to artificially make Rey seem better. But there are two reasons why this doesn't work, for one, it tends to create Mary-Sue like characters who just get given everything, and two, it inherently causes the fans of the other characters and stories to resent the character that's taking it away.

People don't like people who are simply handed everything, even fictional ones.

In a sense, this is also why Cleriths so often seem to hate Tifa, because they feel like Tifa took their story away from them. The difference, of course, is that Cloud ending with Tifa is a part of the original game itself, while Aerith coming back to life and ending up with Cloud would be a 25 year retcon which would blatantly disadvantage one character in favor of another, this in turn would reek of favoritism, which in turn would generate bad blood in the player. A character who needs to take away from other characters in order to be put forward is not a good character. Good characters add to the characters around them, not take away, that's what Aerith in the OG does, that's what Aerith ending up with Cloud, would not do. This effect would then be magnified by Aeriths already over importance to the plot. Having the universe revolve around one character generally isn't good writing. One of the things that makes Lord of the rings so timeless and beloved is that Frodo is just a small hobbit in the grand scheme of things. Likewise, one of the key elements that makes FFVII so appealing to human nature is Clouds humanity and lack of importance. The fact that Cloud turns out to not be a soldier 1st class, but just a grunt who wasn't good enough, who still ends up being the one who saves the world, speak to the human spirit. Aerith living and ending up with Cloud wouldn't be just a small difference where the overall story would stay the same with only the love interest switched, no, it would inherently ripple effect into all other aspects of the story. From the smallest details to the overall themes of the story, from directing to the personalities of characters, everything would be effected and all of it would fall apart. I could go over a hundred examples but I'll limit myself to some of the smallest and largest. Stories have a flow, where what is happening follows logically from what came before. It's not that it's impossible to write a story where two characters that are roughly similar to Cloud and Aerith fall in love, get separated by death, and where the Cloud character mourns and pines for her after she's gone. The problem comes when you add in Tifa, Zack, and all the other context and details of the story. Consider Zack, if we take the concept of Zack as it relates to Cloud and Aeriths relationship and boil it down to the essentials we could see it as a story about a girl falling in love with a boy because he's channeling the spirit of her dead ex, the main internal conflict the characters need to overcome could then be the question of whether these feelings are true, or whether they are just the shadow of her feelings for the old boyfriend. On the surface, this premise works as the basis of a story. The problem lies in the execution. If you write such a story there are a few things you can and cannot do. For one, you have to make this love exceptionally obvious, you can't tell a story about whether or not feelings are true if you never even get to establishing the feelings in the first place. One of the key things you need to do for this is establish the two characters central importance to the others internal emotional arcs. The first thing you DON'T do is establish a second female character and have Clouds emotional arc revolve mainly around her. If you want to tell a story where Tifa and Clouds relationship turns out to just be friendship, while Aerith and Cloud turns out to be love, then you show the scenes establishing that. However, whenever Cleriths argue for a story like this they have to assert that Cloud no longer loving Tifa is just something that happened off-screen and is never mentioned. But if this were true, this would be extremely important to show. So again, if this is the story, then this is bad direction, aka, storytelling. Scene choices matter, if your story requires you to assume that the scenes you're shown aren't important, and that the crucial bits have to be imagined to happen of screen, then that's bad writing. And the reason you can't suddenly do it now, 25 years later, is

because of a thing called "set-up". Even if they were to change to story to suddenly direct it as such now, it would constitute a drastic change of direction, which means the larger 2-decade long story we've been told is no longer a single coherent whole. If the story in remake is that Cloud always loved Aerith, then why wasn't the ground work for that lain 25 years ago? If you want to say that the story is about Cloud loving Aerith, and ending up with her eventually, then you can't have Cloud not speak her name for the second half of the original game, and devote that time completely to establishing port-mortem that Cloud wasn't himself while with Aerith, and that his true self has deeply ingrained feelings towards another woman. And not some minor character who exists only as a plot-device, some fake hurdle designed to try to raise some fake tension, but Tifa, a character who is routinely established to be the "heroine" of the game, someone of equal importance to Aerith who cared for Cloud while he was in a coma, whose history with Cloud started his internal character arc, whose history with Cloud resolved his internal character arc, and who lives with Cloud 2 years later.

And the same thing goes for Zack, it was possible to write him as negligible when it was just FFVII, if you ignored the addition of Tifa and JUST focused on the Zack element as a side character. But the addition of Tifa and the existence of Crisis Core cause the narrative to become disjointed when trying to view it as a single story. This is why people so often want you to ignore Crisis Core, because they understand that if a conclusion of a story is that Zacks role isn't that important, then why did your story spend an entire game cementing the importance of Zack? One of the things I hear most from Cleriths is "why couldn't Cloud just get over his childhood crush on Tifa and fall in love with Aerith? It happens in real life" , or some other variation of "why couldn't this happen?" But this shows the problem with how they want the story to go, because stories aren't real life. Anything CAN happen in a story, but not anything should. Stories have a concept called " checkovs gun", if a gun is introduced into a story in the first act, it has to be fired somewhere down the line. If the gun turns out to not have a role in the story, why was it there? But the same thing doesn't apply in real life, in real life, chekovs guns almost never fire, with few exceptions, real life is a bad guide to how to write stories. Stories written like real life, generally suck. If characters in stories behaved like characters in real life, half their lines would be "uhhhhh", and half the scenes would be them sitting on the couch having meaningless unrelated events happen.

The entire flow, pacing, and sequence of events is wrong in a Clerith version of this story. In order to sell the idea that FFVII is a story about Aerith and Cloud getting together you first have to sell the idea that all these plot threats concerning Tifa essentially don't matter. But if they don't matter, then why are they there? What purpose do they serve? What purpose does Tifa serve? Or Zack? In order to "fix" their preferred interpretation, Cleriths need to get around this problem, which causes them to have to re-interpret everything that happens and twist it in order to create the appearance of a coherent story. This requires them to resort to minimizing characters, character assassinating characters, and generally misrepresenting everything that happens. I think there is no bigger indication of why Cloud and Aerith getting together would suck as a story than looking at how the people who propose this version of the story look at Cloud and Tifa as characters. What follows are some excerpts from the dumbest person I've ever debated.

This went on for over 200 replies, this is not a mentally sound interpretation of the story, but this is what you need to believe in order to get the Aerith/Cloud love story to work. You're forced to minimize Tifa and her importance to the story, and you need to demonize Cloud. So basically you have two options here, you either have to say "all this stuff with Tifa and Zack, doesn't matter", all their scenes, all those plot threats, they all aren't a part of the larger story being told and ultimately amount to nothing. Or two, you remove all those scenes or rewrite them to instead focus on Cloud and Aerith. And both those approaches suffer from the same basic problem, they're both effectively going "screw everything, all that matters is Cloud and Aerith". Which brings me back to my earlier point. If your story is pushing everything aside in order to hype up the main character, you're not writing a good ensemble story, you're writing a bad fan-fiction. This is the writing people HATE. Cloud is no longer a sad but likable character with complex motivations and feelings who wasn't as important as he thought he was, no, he's cliche self-insert main character that the world revolves around, who every girl genuinely loves regardless of whether or not it makes sense, even though he's a complete asshole who abandons children and takes advantage of women just because he's "lovesick". No other man could ever compare, a week with him braindamaged and you forget all about the man you pined after for 5 years. Aerith is not compassionate to a man who blames himself for his failings and thinks he'd do more harm than good, she's compassionate to a piece of human filth who refuses to go save children because he doesn't care about them. She's not just a girl with a big destiny and a tragic fate, no, the universe itself resets to make sure she gets laid. Tifa isn't a powerful woman who devotedly supports the man she loves through his darkest hours, instead she's a weak unimportant doormat without self-respect who even in 2 decades could not measure up to a week with Aerith. Zacks connection with Cloud doesn't come with complex implications about Aeriths feelings, Zack never really mattered, his entire story of getting back to her? Doesn't matter, it only exists to show how much Aerith must love Cloud to choose him over Zack. The entire lifestream reveal concerning Cloud? Doesn't matter, nothing matters, it's in the past. The central reveal of the story isn't important because Clouds true self suddenly likes Aerith now.....good writing. etc, etc, etc. Where Aerith was once a part of an ensemble cast, the heroine of the external plot, tasked with saving the world through her powers as an ancient, while Tifa as the equally important heroine of the internal plot saves Clouds through their shared feelings, now everything instead revolves around Aerith, and the other characters only exist in service to her, not as characters in their own right, but only to make sure she and Cloud gets together, like every hated mary-sue in history. The pain of her death? Gone, the impact and nuance of the story? Gone. Literally everything that made FFVII special? Gone. And concerning the small, even the little details would no longer be coherent, Cetras thematically guide people to the promised land, note: "GUIDE", but now Aerith would suddenly be the promised land herself. The through-line of Cetras "returning to the planet"? Gone, if Aerith doesn't die that doesn't link to the story anymore at all. Tifa's bar being the 7th heaven, aka, the final heaven, aka, the promised land where Aerith guides Cloud to? Suddenly a meaningless name. Tifa's last name "lockhart" being a direct hint towards the "tender feelings locked up inside Clouds hart"? Completely trivial, the feelings weren't that important to the story. And I could go on for hours, every aspect of FFVII, from small to large, would be fundamentally poisoned if Cloud ends up with Aerith.

I could rewrite the story to make it work, but that's the point, then you'd be rewriting the story in order to diminish every other character and story in favor of Cloud and Aerith. Which brings us back to it becoming a horrible fan-fiction where no one and nothing matters except Cloud and Aerith. It's ok to write unimportant characters, it's not ok to make your important characters unimportant in retrospect in order to wank off another character. Thanks for asking.

[savsanerd]

Various ML Headcannons

- Adrien called Plagg “Mom” once. They couldn’t look each other in the eyes for 3 days.

-Before they went to New York, Marinette asked Chat to water her plants. That’s the real reason she was so mad. (JK but not really. Like she still hasn’t let him live it down.)

-Chat felt so bad he over compensated and brought an entire jungle next time he visited.

-Chat loves skipping. Whenever he gets the chance he will skip instead of walk.

-Adrien compensates for his lack of social skills with an excess of movie TV and vine references. He practically spent his whole childhood studying for it. 40% of them are used wildly out of context but 

-Mari and Adrien are both HUGE swifties but never talk about it with anyone... then one day Mari makes some super niche Taylor reference and Adrien gets it and they both just share a look like “are you?” And proceed to talk about it for an hour, too excited to stutter. Its the only reveal that matters if you ask me.

-Mari STANS Olivia Rodrigo too and worked on her merch line.

-once m. Mendeleiv gave the class a ton of homework over the weekend, and to exact her revenge, Alya does some Revenge Blogging ™  and writes a whole Ladyblog article on why mendeleiv is hawkmoth. She doesn’t really believe it at first but like found some legit hints??? And now she’s genuinely kinda sus.

-Adrien was really really good at chess and even competed, until he was 7 and his father told him he was far too old for such childish activities.

-in the Winter, Ladybug is much more sensitive to the cold (bug probs) and so when they patrol on cold nights she wears a big corny chat noir sweatshirt she bought from some tourist trap in Paris, because she loves her kitty thinks it’s unfair that everyone wears ladybug merch not chat noir merch.

-Adrien actually needed glasses since he was like 15 maybe? But he didn’t want to disappoint his father and admit his eyes weren’t working so he just squinted and used context clues and suffered through it. Luckily Plagg helped him out and included corrective lenses in his suit. So, when he is 22, he finally gets glasses (only after Mari insists it’ll help) and he freaks out seeing Mari in “HD” as Adrien.

-Mari and Adrien ~technically~ first met at a regional chess competition (though neither remember that). Mari won- not only because she’s an excellent strategist- but because Adrien couldn’t really think straight when she got that little wrinkle between her brows and when her tongue poked out the corner of her mouth on her turn.

-post reveal pre relationship, the pair like to hang out a lot in trees. Mari likes being near the leaves, chat likes the climb. More often than not Marinette has to help Adrien down cause he gets stuck.

- when asked her thoughts on mister bug in class one day, Mari said, to quote, “well the abs were certainly a welcome addition”. Adrien must’ve had a cold that day because his coughing fit lasted at least 3 minutes.

-Adrien CAN sing well. He just chooses not to. It’s much more fun singing off key and using silly voices when he does karaoke with his friends.

-Mari ~cannot~ sing well. But that didn’t stop her from learning the ukulele and starting a music account (@marimakesmusic) when it was all trendy and ~tumblr~ back in 2012. She posted cute little off-key singing videos for a few months then privated the account when she got more serious about design.

-Nino remembered the account and casually mentioned it once when he was helping Mari at a Jagged Stone fitting. Jagged flipped and Mari (in the most embarrassing moment of her life) had to show a famous rockstar her 10 year old self singing riptide without hitting a single correct note. It made Jagged’s day and now its his custom ringtone for Mari.