#and tbh i do think joker jason could be kinda interesting !!

[kenobers]

[ok spoilers for robin lives incoming]

every day i understand more and more the people who want to consume jason todd content but don’t want to read comics because what do you mean they turned him into the clown

[danny-chase]

In general, would you say that Dick should be more flexible on killing than Bruce?

saying things in general is harder but i think it's hard to be more inflexible than bruce when it comes to moral codes. i think i'd rank the batfamily as follows from most rigid to least rigid on the no kill stuff:

edit: i’m turning this into a tiered list because i think that makes more sense

Tier 1: Cass, Bruce

Tier 2: Tim, Damian, Steph, Duke

Tier 3: Dick

*slightly big gap*

Tier 4: Barbara, Alfred

*slightly big gap*

Tier 5: Helena

you know what Jason is in his own cloud and split into like 5 people because the writers don’t know what they’re doing with him

Dick can be pretty uptight about the no killing thing but like. Garfield Logan killed someone during New Teen Titans and he didn't do anything about it 😅 but he's very anti kill in that run (see him telling Kory not to kill people like a million times) i think he just understood it was an accident. When he killed joker, there were other reasons as to why he was angry/upset with himself, and with Blockbuster there were like a million other traumatic things in his life that were going on (and he didn't kill Blockbuster, he just didn't stop someone from killing him) but he was upset over that situation enough to turn himself in. So like, i see him very much on the anti kill side of things, i think the space between him and Barbara is a bit of a gap (she sees lethal force as sometimes necessary). However he does kill Creighton in Nightwing (1996) #146 so i guess he could have loosened up over time 🤷‍♀️

Now if you're talking about Dick accepting a former reformed killer, he does end up working on the same team as the android indirectly responsible for killing Donna. And I think his relationship with Helena is interesting ignoring the weird romance bits but tbh i don't remember ever actually seeing her kill anyone (she does indirectly in Cry for Blood though) even though everyone always talked about her methods all the time but that's on me for not reading enough of her comics. In terms of Jason, Jason kinda tried to kill him, Damian, and Tim and was actively working against him in preboot so that's not much to go on, but idk i guess in reboot they're pretty chill, so i guess he's cool with reformed characters 🤷‍♀️

idk there's a lot of comics with him and i think this isn't something that's easily clear cut and that i can summarize for you, it's def open to interpretation and which canon you like more/what versions of Dick you see as more canon than others. like personally i'd put him being rigid on it but i can see the evidence for him being flexible, and i think as he gets older and grows as a character he has become more flexible over time. Just him personally killing someone and not having a breakdown over it was surprising for me (when reading that Nightwing issue i was kinda like, this seems unusual but idk he's changed cuz of one year later)

[batarangsoundsdumb]

hae interrogationes multae respondeant quia demens .

if you read this entire ask post you deserve a gold star and financial recompensation

Um, Obviously because when you’re adopted by a white guy you automatically become white duhhh

this is about this post lmao and yeah youre absolutely right, you have to hand your poc card in when you get adopted by a white guy.

Do you think Cass would listen to Yanni, the YouTube channel epic symphonic rock, or some other stuff? There's some cool mashups but idk if that's up your alley, I kinda feel like I'm pushing it with my weird taste of music by recommending an orchestra cover of metal, but i just love that sort of thing and mashups :P @harvestyourcherries 

i haven’t heard of that? but in my personal (correct) opinion steph listens to classical music, and then both modern and older, and then also stuff like black sabbath, iron maiden, but also hardrock and hardcore. i like the idea of cass just liking the most extreme screaming songs full of noise and then also listen to pachelbel’s 370th sonata yanno? THANK YOU for the rec tho

speaking of ur cass playlist hc...reminds of the time (yesterday) i found 2 playlists randomly on spotify from the same user. one was abt 3 hours of instrumental/classical "dark" & "nostalgic" music. the other almost 11 hours of nothing but hardcore bass/synth/electronic music. just an incredible tightrope act to put on in public. the synth one was also called like "psalms for synth sluts" which is Also incredible

tbh i LOVE synth SO MUCH like for no reason at all but then also cannot handle a poppy electronic beat lmao. but this seems like the kinda thing i’d do but just in one (1) playlist bc i just sort songs by vibe instead of genre? that’s how i end up with britney spears and billy ray cyrus in the same playlist. 

Oh, I want Kate Kane playlist next! It would be amazing if you could do one when you have time and will 🙏

how rude would it be of me to just say no? like sorry kate but idk you and also you seem way too keen on the us military for an institution that homophobically targeted you? (and also commits war crimes) but let’s unpack the fact that the institution that caused the death of your mom and sister and also got you blacklisted for being gay is still one you align with???

'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' --- when i tell you i fucking screamed LOL!!!!!!! i can imagine the cameraman not knowing if he should cut to commercial or keep it on these two weirdos fighting on stage (bruce definitely ruffled dick's hair/noogied him right?? 

about this post but yeah lmao. this cameraman just turns to like the audience to get a reaction and it’s just multiple moments of CLEAR shock.

you are the only funny person on this hellsite

how egotistical is it for me to say that i get this ask multiple times a month? bc it literally happens so often it’s hilarious to me.

Wish there was more john/Bruce content 😔😔😔 was so hungry I actually looked at canon media 😔😔😔 (Justice League Dark babeeeyyyyyy)

check out batman: damned for some mediocre content but at least it’s john/bruce (also very interesting story and stuff, just got very >:( over this weird part where harley quinn tried to r*pe bruce or something? it’s not for everyone)

dick grayson but he's nicki minaj

his anaconda don’t want none,,, unless...... 

Dick Grayson was never a cop, he played Marshall on Paw Patrol

you are SO right. also paw patrol is a fucking good show idc. that shit could’ve been the new steven universe on this hellsite.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CS1lI0bLI7-/?utm_medium=copy_link

...

why do people keep reposting my CONTENT. if you are not funny yourself don’t just grab shit off of tumblr and post it on insta,,, get a life. sidenote: should i start an insta and get all these ppl to take my content down that would be funny as hell.

Might I suggest for a Gotham City Meme: something about the true crime fandom thirsting for the rogues gallery

ok can i just say something slightly controversial?? no? i don’t find true crime ppl who are into criminals funny, that shits disturbing irl im not gonna bring that into my very chill universe.

i may have never seen a 'jason cleaning guns in sink' fic but i do know he WOULD

THANK YOU

bestie im sorry to say this to you but while you can, and people do wash their guns in the sink, that is a lot of lead in a very vital part of the kitchen.

people tend to do it in the bathtub.

WHY???? like damn why do you even have guns

i dont think i read many gun sink fics exactly but i have read lots of fics where jason cleanes his guns in the living room. usualy dissembles them and cleans them with a rag i think

lmao fair enough, like i think that’s a large part of what i remember as well.

if you say you've seen/read gun sink fics I believe you. I think those of us who didn't see them are lucky or maybe didn't search for fics by tags or something idk

i mean ive never sought them out but i HAVE seen them,, like definitely i know almost for certain.

saw your tags and I'm interested in Steph/Kara now. They would be the most chaotic couple <3

literally thoooo, i have a wip where they get together in a zombie apocalypse and like UGGGHhhh i am so in love with them.

I am the Breece anon. Thanks for the recommendation; am reading now. I’ve always been a hardcore Superman fan because I love my pure himbo farm boy. My logic is, if one Bruce is a Broose, then multiple Broose are a herd of Breece. And this is a hill upon which I will perish.

fair enough,,,, like moose, meese, goose, geese, bruce, breece. i get your logic and i stand by it as well. (glad you enjoyed the comic recs!!!!)

It's a beautiful day in Gotham, and you are a group of horrible Breece

OH my god dude lmao

there only being 42 fics on ao3 for tim and bernard is honestly so sad i need more

it’s like twice that now!!! we did it lads. (tho very sad that my fic isnt number one but like number 4 :((((  )

i'm too late you already did the poll lol but may i suggest bethy (bernard + timothy)

shit dude that wouldve been so fucking funnyyyyy. think ppl have just stuck to timber tho, tim/bernard kinda died down recently and i think it’s too bad, they’re a great couple and i love them.

Wait, hear me out

Bernothy @redlightofdawn

great recommendation (lmao this ask is from like a month ago) but very sorry to announce that NARDTH is the superior shipname

Wait, we know that bernard likes milfs (Tim's step-mom) but what about dilfs? gilfs?

Wait no, I regret sending that ask

these were two seperate asks and they’re HILARIOUS. in my personal opinion tho,,, milfs, gilfs, dilfs are just about vibes and bernard is just attracted to sexy ppl who may sometimes be milfs, dilfs, or EVEN gilfs.

crime in bludhaven would drop to half if nightwing had a boob window. in this essay i will-

WHERE’S THE ESSAY ANON, WHERE’S THE FUCKING ESSAY

Wait if Barbra and Tim r at opposite ends at all times what happened to Barbra once everyone’s Tim’s ever love before started dying lol

she won a lottery ticket and spent 2 weeks on a resort in the bahamas before returning home and finding out that the joker was arrested for tax evasion and then spent a month staying at her big tiddie goth girlfriend’s house before conner came back to life and she broke her pinkie playing table hockey.

Why is the opposite end thing so funny and compelling to me. Tim comes back from his depression quest for Bruce and Babs is now a literal god

lmao when tim loses his spleen barbara reaches nirvana.

Are you still taking music recs because I have three songs that remind me of Jason that I think you'd like

send to me or lose a toe

🌸 ⭐ put this star into the inbox of your favorite blogs. it’s time to spread positivity! ⭐🌸😋

thanks, i wont tho on account of i wont.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMduBy3Sr/

⬆️

This is the whole of Blüdhaven and everyone anywhere.

Nightwings ass alone saves more people in a calendar year and does more for so society than most heroes do their whole career.Also u are one of the funniest tumblr pages out there. The vibes are unmatched and the memes and tags ✨send me✨.Thank u and goodnight @julia-flow 

fanksss also lmao.

That's going to be a little bit difficult to explain, but

There's some music that you listen to and you think, "oh my gosh, I can perfectly imagine Dick Grayson singing this song, with the same voice as the singer because that voice matches with Dick Grayson"?

oh yeah totally lmao. i have a lot of songs that i think are just entirely dick grayson yanno? kind of all of my playlists have that vibe, but i really find bleachers to fit with dick? idk.

"Lois lane/Superman" fics this, "Lois lane/Clark Kent" fics that, (/lh) let's get into the real good stuff. Some people ship Lois, Clark, and Superman as a throuple. Most popular fic tag for sure

yes totally, i think they’d be absolutely killer on ao3 and clark gets so fucking embarassed about it.

I miss your post, hope you’re doing okay!!

haha this was like 2 months ago, but i was doing fine then too! just didn’t have a lot of inspiration in terms of content.

Doot doot!

noot noot

I’m confused. What did DC do now? Like with nightwing? And another sibling? Please spoil everything for me

lmao they gave him a secret sister plotline where they had his dad cheat on his mom with tony zucco’s wife, bc dick’s life wasn’t traumatic enough yet.

sorry but it's so funny that batman is called "the dark knight" when the gotham city baseball team is called the gotham knights. it'd be like if a vigilante was running around new york called like "the scary yankee"

lmaooo no. but like yankee comes from dutch names or something so wouldnt it be HILARIOUS if gotham knights came from like german names and bruce would be running around called the dark KLAUS UND NIEK @graysonnightwing 

(not a batcest shipper) it’s so funny to me that the responses are “i’m a batcest shipper because i can differentiate fiction from reality and and it doesn’t bother me personally, but i understand why you oils think it’s weird” to “i wish all batcest shippers a very fucking die”

yeah lmaoo. i personally basically flipped my entire stance around to ‘i dont care please leave me and everybody else alone’ bc i think there’s really no point in starting a moral dillema over some fucking fandom bullshit. Please just,,, go home,,, log off, find a nice forest to have a little walk in and remember that somewhere in history, somebody probably died in the place you’re standing. and you will also die someday, and somebody will have to look at your internet usage and see you fighting multiple people anonymously while being named ‘nightwingsbuttchin200186′ like... calm down, we’re all gonna die this is not the thing to worry about.

so since like "wards" don't really exist in modern society almost all the batkids are foster kids, right? i used to work in the system and imagine: monthly visits from social workers and guardian ad litems, bruce having to get permission to take the boys anywhere out of state, calling their social worker at like 8 a.m. like "yeah dick broke his arm again... a gymnastics accident this time...." their poor social worker. bruce send her a huge bouquet and box of chocolates every month to stay on her good side

i imagine the social worker just getting into the case like ‘yeah let’s get this kid a good guardian’ and then ending up having to work with 22 y/o bruce wayne and his 50 y/o dad. and so this social worker is like ‘okay we can work with this, this is the best home i can find’ and then like it ends up landing on its feet and then the kid gets adopted and then they get a call a year later like ‘uhm so hi, this kid tried to steal my tyres can i adopt him?’ and like 3 years later. ‘okay so basically, my neighbours’ kid imprinted on me and now they’re dead, can i keep him?’ two years later it’s like ‘okay so this assassin child-’

ever since I saw that one post of yours, the meme that's something like "I know that abba's backup dancer got me" with a picture of discowing, I've been haunted. Every once in a while I'll be minding my own business then the image of abba's backup dancer dick grayson aka nightwing aka discowing will flash in my mind and I'll be frozen in place. Today at work I was in the middle of folding clothes and suddenly once again discowing entered my mind and I suddenly lost the ability to see anything except He. Thank you.

wow. the IMPACT.

Braver than any US marine man props to you🤝

this shit is about the time i wrote an article on batcest, like man,,, the fact that i didn’t get cancelled is MIRACULOUS. also like,,, uh if anybody on here did gossip on me,, send screenshots i’d love to see it.

Hello, just wanted to say your article was great. Thank you for taking the time to provide an unbaised answer. It should provide people with nuances they couldn't possibly conjure on their own.

May I ask where your username originates from?

yes you may (also thanks!!!) i thought it up when i was trying to find an original username bc i didnt want to be called like ‘timdrakes something something’ or ‘jason todd something smoething’ or ‘dick grayson something something’ yanno? so i thought batarangs, they sound so dumb and that’s my username story... now it’s my whole entire brand lmao.

yno that bit in kick ass where red mist asks kick ass if he wants a hit of his blunt, was that the inspo for stoner tim

no? it’s bc i think stoners are hilarious and drugs are great. (dont do drugs tho) 

How would u feel if someone actually wore one of those bruce or ollie pride shirts u edited

fenomenal next question.

Dick as lil huddy and Jason as James gave me radiation poisoning and now I’m screaming crying throwing up so thx for that

(Rico suave as Tim is perfect tho literally no changes needed)

i was so funny for that shit wasn’t i??? lmao i loved those weird ass fancasts

You're doing the Lord's work by providing us with all these Gotham/Metropolis citizens memes, thank you for being so relentlessly funny @nellethiel-aranel

you’re welcome!! i really enjoy making memes, but getting validation for my content and my memes is REALLY nice.

Bruce is such a slut in your memes and honestly i love that for him @rhodey-rhudert-rhodes-main 

he’s that much of a slut irl too dw.

Bruce and Alfred have an emergency pride flag for the batkids. Oliver Queen printed an emergency "I love my gay son" t-shirt and as soon as Roy told him he was dating Jason, Oliver started wearing that shirt everyday and Roy always cringes when he sees it. Oliver also has an emergency "I love my lesbian daughter" shirt just in case for Cissie.

lmao YES i had a post like this bc like all of their kids/family members are so gayy

stop bringing back batfam fancasts it is not real it is not real it is not- 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

oh yes it is my darling.

did discowing burn down the notredam because he hates the bees? @allulily

no he did it bc fuck the french.

im gonna beg for 1 thing and 1 thing only. please please please put physical by olivia newton john on dick's playlist

okay then beg. bc i wont. physical reminds me too much of glee and that hurts me mentally.

your playlist is sorely missing some Madonna. Specifically Into the Groove, Like a Prayer, and Vogue

i’m scared of madonna that’s why she’s not on there. she haunts me in my dreams.

suggestion: son of batman by aaron dews for dick’s playlist🤩

sorry, i listened to it and the vibe didn’t agree with me.

Hear me out, metropolis citizens sending rare pair fics of Clark Kent x Superman fics to Lois to edit

yes, absolutely hilarious. even more funny if they send like physical copies, no address attached and lois sends it back marked with red ink, SOMEHOW

Imagine all the smut Clark must of read editing the fics

clark reads smut confirmeeed

NOT LOIS READING SUPERBAT PORN AND EDITING IT A 2AM 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

hc that alfred is a meta that boosts healing factor of the people around him. if the bats are injured as much as they seem to be they would be doing bat stuff MAYBE half the year. no one including alfred knows about this. whenever the kids move out they inexplicably dont recover from injuries as fast and feel better whenever they visit the manor they just chalk it up to homesickness. bruce just thinks he heals really fast. alfred thinks everyone doesnt take care of themselves properly @finchcollector

that’s actually such a great idea, but i think that alfred would find out and learn how to concentrate it better so he can help more people, bc he’s great and i love him.

One of your dickfast posts reminded me of that tweet that goes: 'so you've had sex how many times? Yeah technically that's not a bromance' lol that's dickwally or dickroy

literally tho. like that’s all of dick’s friendships. once it gets past a certain time dick is like ‘wow i wonder what it would be like to make out with wally, wally come make out with me’ and wally’s like ‘we’ve done this like 40 times, dick, you know what it’s like’ and dick is like ‘sorry are you complaining?’ and they just make out.

superfam and batfam associations??

-batman and superman

-dick/barabara and supergirl?

-conner and tim

-jon and damian

pls enlighten me I am confused

nope,,, uhm batman and superman, but dick and superman as well, and then conner and tim, jon and damian and steph + babs with supergirl

I came across a fic in which Wonder Woman calls Batman "Stella" (like Stellaluna, the children's book) and I can imagine the batkids hop on the trend and maybe copies of the book appear at random places (aka, everywhere Bruce frequents)

sorry can’t reciprocate that was the name of my high school chemistry teacher and it gives me nightmares to think about.

good human what are your pronouns?

wouldn’t you like to know?

I need me some gothamites preferring harley over joker memes

everyone prefers harley over joker youre just very fucked up if you dont

don't understand why people try to add like veteran policy to the batfamily

dick pulling out his veteran batfam member card so he can eat first: step aside, peasants

Do you know the song Simmer by Haley Williams? It (the first verse anyways) reminds me of Jason? It's about rage.

damn yeah i LOVE HAYLEY!!!! youre right thoo

Okay so I like listen to your stoner Tim Drake playlist 24/7 but would he listen to skegss? Also I keep adding songs mentally it’s killing me 😩✋🏼 Anyways,, I literally love and worship your playlist 😃🤞🏼 And uh yeah have a good day ✨

stoner tim drake playlist is lyfeeee. also dont know who skeggs is? i’m stupid? have a good day!!

All the Robins (and Batgirl) decide to trade costumes for one night just to fuck with Batman and all the villains in Gotham. @subspacecadet 

batman knows it’s them youknow but like,,, what does he call them? he’s like ‘red hood?’ and 3 people answer and he’s not about to compromise some identities so he’s just Pissed.

I aspire to treat cops the way my dad treats them. This man is a 45 year old Asian immigrant to the US and the treats them like his pets. He talks about them like unruly children. Sometimes he pays off local cops to shut up and stop acting racist. And usually it works. I don’t know why but I can see Oliver Queen doing this

vibes... and also yes? oliver queen handing a local cop a donut to shut the fuck up lmao. but yanno i commit enough crimes to not really want to ever see a cop ever, so they kinda scare the everloving fuck out of me.

seeing as tim hasn't aged in years, that means he was 17 at peak emo tumblr era. im back on my emo tim bullshit and im not letting it go

emo tim had a wattpad account send tweet

People seem to think that batman is so dark and serious when the rainbow batsuit is right there. He wore it with no shame.

dude the 60s were a DIFFERENT TIME

dick grew up in a circus, jason grew up on the streets, and tim was probably raised by the internet

all of them cuss every other word and you cannot tell me otherwise

bitch i KNOW but dc has to change to an 18+ rating if they want to sell comix with swear words in them so we gotta deal with imagining the swear words in ourselves

thoughts on teen titans and young justice

haven’t seen teen titans on account of havent seen it and young justice was LITERALLY my favourite thing ever, tho i do gotta admit it’s not at all similar to the young justice comics unfortunately. i really wouldve liked to see timmy bart kon cassie and cissie animated on tv!!

ew ew ew how to delete batcest shippers I genuinely digust them

log off tumblr?

Okay as poc who was called racist for calling an Italian pastabrain: in the batfam are Italians bit Damian just yells various insults about the others being Italian. Just him yelling “What are you doing you moronic spaghettihead!” At steph etc

huh? i meant real italians. homeboy is telling steph he hopes she chokes on her fucking garlic.

I think it's dumb as hell to pull the batman is the best fighter in the batfam argument because like it's just irresponsible of Bruce to let his kids fight when they couldn't possibly be on his league or something

fair enough, but also like who cares they could all kill you just sit down and take a beating.

lady shiva, thalia al ghul and Selina Kyle are all milfs @notanothertimburtonenthusiastugh 

unfortunately, i have to admit,,, you’re right

why tf didn't someone give joker a death sentence already? like he's a mass murderer...give him the electric chair treatment wtf

idk i think plenty of people would have tried to murder him already (boring answer is: he is a popular character so they can’t kill him off bc he brings in lots of money)

There’s no such thing as “ copaganda”.

all american media is propaganda. happy to clear this up for you

is it bad that I find lady shiva owa owa

no. find her as owa owa as you want.

aight I'm guessing the order of your favs in batfam:

1. tim

2. Steph

3. dick

4. Duke

5. the rest

you’re wrong but it’s cute that you tried, i generally don’t have favourites, but i have a special place in my heart for steph, tim, dick and cass. bc they were like my introduction to batfam. but damian, jason, duke, bruce, babs and alfred are NOT FORGOTTEN OR UNLOVED

oh my god i was literally just readily willing to believe that italians werent white ty for clarifying it was a joke im so dumb sdkvjskdfs

i mean some italians aren’t white? italian is a nationality as well as an ethnicity, so like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

since I saw so many people doing headcanons about the nationalities of batboys, I see Dick as an Italian.

dont know if youre serious or not, but sure.

super random but

jason 🤝 damian

old english

lmao fair enough.

tim absolutely has 1 gay uncle and his parents shit talk said uncle all the time so after bruce adopts him he specifically reaches out to this uncle to be like "heyyyy just so you know you majorly influenced my life yes i know i havent seen you since i was 5 and at the family reunion yes i know you dont remember my name idc thank you im gay too" and then they never talk again.

yuppp lmao that’s definitely something that could happen. i can also consider tim having no family members, like none. until he does like a dna test and he realises he has like an aunt living barely 2 miles away from him who’s like some illegitimate child of his grandpa.

I dare you one of them sends clark superman/clark fic and clark corrects the shit out of it and then goes like ps his dick is not that big, just telling as someone who has seen it. internet either explodes or goes who tf did he not fuck at this point.

i think everybody would call clark a buzzkill and try to cancel him over that.

so you're telling me Tim Drake wouldn't buy Starbucks?

no. dunkin donuts all the way

One of my favorite things is imagining people finding out jason came back from the dead and being like "oh no does he have magic powers now?!?!?" and he just pulls out a gun and tries to shoot joker

now he doesn’t even have the gun :) lmao

my favorite batfamily fanfictions are the ones where they use their shitty codenames, unironically, in any context

bruce gets codename ‘ugh’ everytime. he hates it.

crazy that tim being a 17 y/o ceo and a stoner who does brand deals are all actual canon things written in detective comics comics and not made up for shits and giggles by you, tumblr user batarangsoundsdumb @rowdeyclown

SO CRAZY HUH?

batman au where everything is the same but his utility belt is bright pink

absolutely, but i raise you, his boots light up like sketchers when he kicks people.

unbeknownst to the superhero fandom writers in the dcuniverse, clark and BRUCE are one of the most prolific fanfic writers in the superhero rpf tag on ao3. clark writes the best lois x superman angst, full of unhappy endings and scenes that are a so detailed you'd think you were in the middle of a superhero beatdown. bruce made an ao3 account to fuel "the do the butts match" thing, and makes batman/bruce fics from time to time. he wrote a superbat fic as a joke but ended up making it REAL porny. @concrastinator

dude they’re WAY too busy for that. Oliver Queen and Hal Jordan on the other hand are the most prolific fanfic writers in the superhero rpf tag writing what is Mostly porn.

When the dining table topic gets to politics, Steph says "eat the rich" as the solution

bruce just silently takes away her fork and knife while she’s talking.

[redjaybathood]

What people expect batfam or Outlaws do you think Jason would have had an interesting team up?

Ohhh this is a good one.

Tbh I want anyone and everyone in a team-up with Jason. It could be fun to explore how his personality meshes with different type of people. Except maybe Flashes - sorry Flash fans, nothing against Flashfam but it's just hard for me to keep track of basically any storyline with a Flash. I developed an irrational anxiety about them.

But ones interesting for me in particular:

1) Jason and Rose. Canon gave us the lackluster "they're exes" and fuck this. Give me some actual team up.

2) Jason and Rose and Eddie.

I am pretty sure it's shauds' fault I am invested in this. Amazing author, superb ideas, go check out their AO3.

In particular, it's because all three are connected. Jason and Eddie are pen pal buddies (for two issues but still); Jason and Rose are exes (in this case you can not show their relationship starting and crash-and-burning, playing off the unimpressed exes dynamic is good); Rose and Eddie were on NTT both.

Also, it could be an iteration of Outlaws!

3) Jason and Gen O but only if he mentors them for real; I don't think it's going to happen but it's a real shame we don't have Jason actually being a good mentor to kids.

Look, he could be a side character in this but I want him to take care of kids in a way that is more than just getting rid of threats that kids face. I think it could be a good development for him as well. Especially in the context of leaving the Batfam and healing. It is easier to let go of certain grudges and genuine hurt inflicted to you by your parents when you're a parent yourself. Just need to make sure you won't do the same or worse mistakes.

4) Onyx, Orpheus, Spoiler and Batgirl versus, and then &, Red Hood.

Ok, this could be an Elseworld story as Orpheus is dead and Onyx... I am not sure about her... But. Okay, imagine an Elseworld story where Jason gets in Gotham during War Games. Of course he will plug himself right into it. And Orpheus kinda did the similar thing that Red Hood was supposed to do? Maybe Jason can go work for him! Butterfly wings, Orpheus doesn't die, nor Spoiler.

Black Mask does, for sure.

5) Talia, Damian, and Jason

We could have it all, imo, if Jason was involved in bringing down Leviathan - who he was accused of being - with them, who also are invested in it.

They all have ties between each other as well, so it's not a random team up either.

6) Jason and any magical users. He has flaming soul swords and slayed interdimensional monsters and ancient evil. He can get on JL Dark or partner with Raven or - I don't actually know a lot about magic users within DC but hey. If this team up ends up existing, I will find out.

I propose them to go against Trigon. I bet Essence could capture him in a sword - so let's add Essence to the team as well.

7) Jason and Lanterns. Give the man a ring. He can be actually any Lantern you want. Rage? He has it. Love? In abundance. Fear? Hope? Will? Yes, yes, yes.

Also, sending Jason in space would be 👨‍🍳👄

And, after BUL, I want Jason Todd, in his civilian outfit, to meet Hal Jordan, who wears exactly the same stuff. Please. Nobody is talking about it. But the shit! The jacket!!! It's very reminiscent of the classic Hal look as I (not a Hal fan so I didn't read much and watched a movie everybody hates) remember it.

8) Huntress, who also started her career with killing gangsters, Manhunter who is another underrated character who isn't a vegetarian. Maybe add Question here. Focus on detective work, mafia organization, police corruption, nitty-gritty of the Gotham's underbelly. No super-villains, just your regular scum of earth.

9) Suicide Squad. They're doing it with Get Joker. They kinda done it but not really, with RHATO (when Biz orchestrated getting captured by Batwoman and being sold into Waller's hands, if I remember it right).

10) Danny Chase and various other NTT rejects nobody wants and thus, some Dick fans (mostly Dick's) think it would make more sense for Jason to partner with than Dick's friends, or his protege, or his whatever. If it was in any way related to Dick, Jason is not allowed to have it! Like, you know, even the electrified crowbars made a controversy. (I am pretty sure Dick's bankrolling Jason si the weapons is his idea for his money and that's why it's what it is? I may be wrong)

But while I do believe this is a ridiculous reason for a team up (especially with Danny who never said a word about Jason except break the news of his death to Dick while, you know, being a 13 yo shithead about it), you can get them - oh, so Nightwing doesn't want you either, huh? And bond other it. If in the process they end up, like, fuck Nightwing, my self-worth can't be dependent on how do I measure up to him or whether he approves of me... That's even better.

11) ALL of Jason's pre-death friends. The ones I remember are his childhood buddy Chris who he watched kung fu flicks together with, in New52, and almost joined the Red Hoods together; Max Dawkins from Truth and Justice, who was his friend before he met Batman and was forced into Ma Gunn's school, and, later, adopted - retcon his death please (I was really uncomfortable with that, I am sure you could see why); Numbers (from the Ma Gunn's school of doom), of course (it's one of the best one-shots of Jason that I read); Dana Harlowe/Strike, from RHATO #51-52 (she is already a vigilante in her own right, trained by a member of the League of Shadows).

Like, Jason renovated the house on the Hills - he gave it away to Tyler and his mom, but. I think, he was considering staying there. In Gotham, in Hills, maybe. Would have been pretty good seeing him reconnecting with childhood friends and fighting for his community in ways that don't involve vigilantism. Which, with Max getting off the streets and starting a promising career - for some reason, I headcanon him as a lawyer; Dana, a very community-minded activist; Numbers, who left the life of crime behind, maybe wanting to do something good with it; Chris, who was scared straight back in the day so maybe he knows dedicates efforts to keep kids in school instead of them joining gangs, especially Joker-related gangs. All of this in the aftermath of Joker's War. Which, I don't actually know how it ended or what it was about? But I hope Joker's dead, Jason found some peace and started rebuilding his life.

12) Jason and all of Slade Wilson's kids. Rose, Joey, and Grant. Idk, some people ship them, I just want them to be friends. Lots in common re: shitty fathers, doing shitty or (self) harmful things because of shitty fathers, dying and coming back to life (for most of them).

[jostenneil]

same question about friendship that anon asked earlier for jason or maybe jade?

i need to read more stuff for jade to generate more ideas but as for jason in what i imagine is a very unpopular opinion i legitimately think he wouldn’t be friends with supers bc he’s like, so disillusioned with the profession. and i get that that was kinda the point of rhato yknow that he was befriending these “outlaws” who didn’t fit in either but idk first they tried to give him dick’s besties due to flashpoint or whatever and then i am not as familiar with artemis and bizarro but idk i just don’t think it’s as interesting as allowing him to return to his roots after resurrection and identifying with normies bc i MEAN. his entire thing is about how disadvantaged people in society aren’t afforded justice the way privileged people are and would it not make sense for him to form his community around the everyday folk of his old neighborhood? i loved the last two issues of rhato that martinbrough did last year for that reason like the potential was so good and i love the idea of him potentially being this neighborhood protector who shows up for the little guys preyed upon by drug lords and rapists and the like that batman doesn’t have the time for anymore bc he’s dealing with gotham’s more extravagant big bads. but that aside obv i do think there would be a few exceptions to this non-supers interpretation, namely: 

dick - BEFORE you drag me to filth i want to clarify i am not like those jason stans who want dick to be like uwu jason i love you you have never done anything wrong in your life ever. that’s boring. what i DO want to see is dick pushing back against bruce’s interpretation of the events of ditf and needing to see jason get better once he’s back bc he feels bad for not having been there much when jason was alive, bc he knows jason is better than the hysteria he’s trying to drive himself into, and bc he figures out a lot of jason’s baggage centers itself around people not having faith in him to be better. more about that here, here (the joker’s last laugh doesn’t exist to me sawry it makes things too easy imo), and here

 talia - self-explanatory given i’m writing an entire rewrite fic of lost days / under the red hood to give talia better characterization than winick ever bothered to afford her despite my loving the initial premise he set up with her and jason, but to expand: i like that talia is a clean slate for jason. she’s never met him before, she doesn’t know about his childhood or about what tension existed between him and bruce. he’s a stranger to her and it puts her in this place to listen to and empathize with him rather than judge him, not to mention it’s interesting to explore the void he could fill for her while she's still mourning the loss of bruce and damian from son of the demon. also obv given jason’s mommy issues i think it would be nice to see him meet and develop a bond with someone like her bc she’s not going to die, she’s not going to use him, she genuinely cares about his well being (in the world where she wasn’t written by racist white men obv), etc. he’s traumatized in ways very different from her but in ways i think she’d still intimately understand bc she feels as alone and isolated as he is. i have too many posts about them tbh but here are some of my favorites 

and then i don’t know that i would see him having deep, faithful friendships with selina or helena but i could see him working with them in the field bc i think some of their moral leanings and motivations align on occasion also like. the shared experience of being from a darker side of gotham yfeel 

[bluebeetle]

honestly since its on my mind here is my rankings of jason ships off the top of my head:

jayt1m, bruj4y, j4ydick,j4ydami, jayt4lia, jaysl4de: theyre bad scoob. inc3st and p3do shit galore; jayt1m woulda been more bearable if tim hadnt been adopted right before jay came back, but still has issues esp re: how jay acted towards tim and tim being a minor while jay is an adult, ableit one very close to his age. tbh i dont trust anyone who likes any of these for obvs reasons. anyways jay has a rly interesting dynamic with all of them except slade tbh and making it romantic ruins it for various reasons, but also bc family is SUCH a driving point for jason!!!! 

jaybabs: i am so tired of DC putting babs with every man they can lol. she deserves better. anyways i dont like it, the few interactions we see with babs and jay prior to him coming back have very older babysitter-like energies, she is supposed to be older than dick (who was already 18 when jay was 12!!) and has known him since he was a child its a weird age gap and they rly dont have a lot in common other than a shared trauma over the joker. its not good and does a disservice to what could be a good platonic relationship that could allow them to heal, esp jay. 

jayroy: i prefer them as friends. they have such good energy with jay as roys’s friend’s little brother who somehow became his friend but as a romance its kinda dull to me, and im not the biggest fan of their age gap 

jaydonna: only ogs will remember when DC tried to push that jay-kyle-donna love triangle on us lol thanks dan didio. honestly its not the worst, i could maybe see it, but donna being around dicks age still makes it a lil weird and the love triangle sucked. donna deserves better, but hey, its better than donnas canon husband tho! 

jaysionis: no comment.

jayanita: yes this exists it appears in 1 issue of the young justice comic during the world without young justice storyline. in this jay is about 18 and alive, with something akin to his pre-crisis backstory. hes shown to have been in a relationship with anita, who i believe is around 16-18 and then he dies lol. would be interesting to see them meet in normal canon but anita hasnt appeared since like 2007 and who knows how old she’d be now with the wonky ages. has potential ig but its in a grey area. 

jayrose: i feel like they have potential BUT it is ruined by the fact that it only ever seems to exist with them already together and interested in each other, with basically no build up or real chemistry as a result. it feels forced and more like out of a necessity to pair people up. they could have a fun dynamic, esp around damian but it feel like its never done right, and often at rose’s expense

jaykyle: their ages are vague due to varous timeline fuckery in DC but i always assumed they were both roughly college age by the time they interact, with kyle being a lil bit older . has a lot of potentiall imo but they havent interacted much in so long. got that sorta bad boy x tortured artist thing going on i like it.

jayconnor: tbh i would love to see them interact more. i feel like this is the superior jay/archer ship tbh tbh. i think it could rly work esp bouncing off each other with their different personalities but they still have a lot in common. they def should interact more now that connor is back in the comics.

jaysteph: speaking of ppl who need to interact more... DC has fucked with their ages a bit since they want to age up jay but not age up steph, so that is an issue, however originally they were only about a year or two apart (since jay is a few months younger than cassandra cain and steph is older than tim by about a year). they have a lot in common with their backstories and their roles in the batfamily so i think it could b cute! much better jay/batgirl ship than babs tbh... would love to see them just TALK. also funny to imagine jay rubbing it in tims face.

jaytemis: i rly like artemis and can see potential in this one so i really do like it! however scott lobdell is NOT the one who shoulda been telling their story and thus they suffer from his writing heavily imo. has a lot of potential and is def my fave bat x amazon ship.

[captainshazamerica]

🎪 titans spoilers

Tim is too well mannered and smart to be associated with the titans they're a literal bunch of toddlers although donna felt like an old lady being called miss troy and ma'am (I'm 23 an I love being called ma'am my brains like who me I'm an adult cool) 😅 gar and tim are prob gonna bond over being the only titans capable of rational thought 😅 The train was quite cool tbh yo how long have people been on that train cuz that one lady looked very 1920s to me

HANK HALL YOU BEAUTIFUL PRECIOUS ANGEL I knew he wasn't gonna make it out of there but my dumb brain held out a smidge of hope Hank is always in protector mode and always concerned about saving the children he tries to help jason and boom dead he tries to help tim and oh no still dead dang it hank, when donna was like oh no dawns gotta be so upset and hanks like yeah she better be 😅 donna wanted to stay and had to leave and hank wanted to leave and had to stay 😢 donna and hank talking about jason and hes like that little fcker blew me up! I know he talked about revenge on jason and I do think that if he got back he would be focused on stopping jason but I also think over a little time he'd forgive him and they'd kinda be buddies again and he'd help him with the drug problem also hank should get to kick crane in the face cuz yeah. Of course hank be driving around the after life blasting living on a prayer and he manages to find a car and a hotel I'm so happy he's with his brother now tho they gonna be kickn ass in the after life hanks basically some type of afterlife guardian now so I'm taking that as he's literally an angel 👼

Maybe hank donna and tim all had the good luck to find each other because of the ritual thingy they were tryna do at themyscira oh my gosh rachel is too funny her idea of themyscira punishment was being made to fight a shark or getting thrown in a pit 😂 that lady tho was that hippolyta and she saying her daughter being dead and earlier donna said to hank it's not like I died stopping an asteriod I died at a carnival so am I connecting stuff that ain't there or did Diana get killed stopping an asteriod? Ahem DONNA WITH THAT SWORD THO why is she so cool can she have a sword on team titans pls now

Okay but honestly somebody please please please help bruce what the heck dick I get he's got a lot to deal with but he could contact bruce now and again and I dunno maybe make him aware that jason is not dead!!! I don't even know if bruce knows or not Although I do think it is interesting character wise that when he broke his no killing rule he ended up turning on himself I really hope they don't just blow past his grief like someone please maybe donna talk to bruce please I was sitting getting so annoyed like bruce spends his whole life as batman and trying to help gotham and save people and there's no one there to save him and then donna swoops in donna I love you

Hank trying to use the power of his imagination to produce a weapon and he ends up with nightwings wingdings 😅😅😅 that was so hilarious to me p.s for that ask game the other day you asked who my fav legends was it's Zari Tomaz (theres two zaris but I've just got a softer spot for the first one) 💕💕💕

also dc should do a really cool back and white noir movie and a scarecrow movie like the way they did that joker movie would be dope too (it would also be intensely cool if they did a dc black label psychoanalytical exploration of Dr Jonathan Crane leading into Scarecrow stories because honestly I think he's one of thier more frightening villians cuz yeah if joker comes to mess you up it won't be a fun time but at least whatever he does to you he's not going to achieve locking you inside your own mind and there's a chance batman or someone will save you but with scarecrow if he comes to mess you up there's a high chance that he'll screw your brain up that much that you literally get trapped in your own mind and like how is anyone gonna be able to get you out of that also the clinical medical-ness would be a touch extra frightening cuz he can mess up with precision whereas joker will wreck you anyway he can but he's not gonna be able to be so precise in what he's doing sorry for the rant but they have such cool characters and so much potential to do stuff with them like ahhh )

Omg I just realized I never replied to your previous titans ask ahhhh I am so sorry!!!! I love getting your asks!!!!

LMAO, u right, Tim IS waaayy too good and pure and smart for the titans ahahaha. Protect him ahhh. I would die for him omg, I absolutely LOVE how they are doing him and how Jay is portraying him omg its near perfect.

Ahahaha, thats so funny xD people called me Ma’am when I worked at Disney world and it always freaked me out xD Especially cause I look so much younger than I am xD It is nice but weird being considered an adult ahahaha

True, Gar and Tim are the only ones with braincells omg xD I feel like they will get along really well awwww.

Omg I thought that one lady on the train looked like she was from the 20’s too!

Right! Hank has grown on me sooo much, like I didn’t really like him 1st season, was indifferent 2nd season, and like him a lot this season. Oh my dumb butt def didn’t think/occur to me that he wouldn’t get out tbh xD I think it works out for his arc though, especially with him and OG kicking butt together there, that was so cute and sweet and perfect. Tho I do want resolution between him and jason but i guess that isn’t gonna happen :(

Huh, interesting about the Diana theory, I never thought of that but you right, I can see that/it makes sense!

Omg I couldn’t handle donna pulling a sword while hank got freaking Robin throw stars and nunchunks that he immediately got hit in the face with xD That was too freaking funny “I was defiantly NOT thinking about Grayson” xD lmaooooo

Dude, this Bruce is so freaking erratic omg. Gosh, I really hope Dick can help him and we get some father son bonding cause my gosh Bruce has me STRESSED this season omg, God bless Donna Troy. I truly thought he was gonna die there! Not even saying goodbye to Dick, smh!

Huh, Ive never heard of Zari Tomaz, Ill have to look her up!

BRO A BLACK AND WHITE SCARECROW MOVIE WOULD BE SO FREAKING GOOD OMGGGGGG. Pleasseeee DC! Gosh, I would KILL for a “psychoanalytical exploration of Dr Jonathan Crane leading into Scarecrow story”, omg, gosh that would be PERFECT! Crane is SUCH an underrated and underused villain! And omg dont apologize cause like same and i love seeing your analysis and rants!!

[bigskydreaming]

IGN’s recent Bat-focused article (Batman: What Does Red Hood Need to Do to Get A Good Story?) praises fanfic writers and also is an amazing critique of how stagnant Jason has become under recent DC management and I’m so surprised at how good it is and how well thought out the solutions were

Hmmm. I just looked it up and I mean, I’m not trying to start anything but I both agree and disagree? Like, it makes some points for sure, I mean, its not like its saying things that I haven’t said a thousand times about Dick, like.....these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions, both good and bad, in order to be fully fleshed out, so I mean yes on that premise alone I absolutely agree this is as true for Jason as it is for Dick or anyone else.

Tbh my only real criticism of the piece is it thinks Jason exists in a particular predicament the other characters aren’t in as well. And that I just don’t agree with, like they kinda lost me a bit with their first paragraph:

His complexities and moral ambiguity make him a compelling and distinct character among his more strait-laced Robin-brothers. Sadly, the character has seen little growth since his rage-filled reintroduction into comics. The ‘former Robin becomes a villain’ idea was enough for DC to coast on for a while but since rejoining the heroes, Red Hood has done little else.

First off, this may just be me being pedantic but I’m ALWAYS going to go fetch a grain of salt before continuing reading anything that pits Jason against his brothers in a war of his moral ambiguity against their strait-lacedness. Because to me, that’s just a fundamentally shallow view of the Batfam that caters to the idea that they each must have their own distinct niche in order to be fully viable individual characters, when a) no, and b) they don’t fit neatly into the niches people keep trying to slot them into and it never ends well for anybody. 

Like Jason is morally ambiguous in a lot of ways too, yes, but umm, even if we assume that the writer is only speaking of Dick, Tim and Damian, we’re talking a guy who beat the Joker to death with his bare hands and has ten assassins and mercenaries on his speed dial and who co-led the Outsiders, a guy who was deeply immersed in weighing the pros and cons of getting revenge for his father by getting Captain Boomerang killed and is forever being DMed by Ra’s because he’s convinced he can get Tim to say He Has Some Points Actually, and the kid who was an assassin with a body count by age ten and who has struggled constantly ever since his debut to define his OWN personal view of morality that is not wholly predicated on what he was taught by any single individual.

And this is a big part of where I part ways with the article, because I think it falls into the same trap that a lot of people do by believing fanfic is inherently better by doing the same thing from just a different angle. Fanfic CAN be better than the canon, I absolutely believe that, I believe it is at times, but to do so, it has to like, BE BETTER. It has to do things differently, and not just paint a slightly different veneer over the same things. Like, pedantic though it might be, I outlined the above issue because its a mode of thinking the canon absolutely falls into again and again, and just like the writer of that article themselves, like....I think fandom as a whole is no different? 

Like, yes there are great stories about Jason out there, some writers have done great and interesting things with him, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a huge trend in fandom of doing the exact same thing I see here.....which is honestly a huge part of the exact same problem the article is decrying canon for......LIMITING Jason (and all the Batfam) by reducing them and their stories to finite niches as a way of spotlighting them as different from their siblings.....except they’re not that different! And that’s okay! They don’t have to be! Families can have lots in common, families DO have lots in common due to like.....shared variables during their formative years. 

I mean Jason was heavily influenced by environmental factors in how and where he grew up before he ever met Batman, but like the article goes into itself, he was no less influenced by Bruce himself as his father figure.....which is something he absolutely has in common with his siblings, thus its not hard at all to see how his siblings could have similar complexities and moral struggles that stem from trying to reconcile Bruce’s influence with the many other things and people that have influenced their childhoods.

And similarly, while the article is dead-on about Jason’s stagnancy....this is something that applies in equal measure to the rest of his family, because they’re all facing the same issues in terms of how DC views and utilizes them, and fandom as much as it likes to condemn DC for doing just that....frequently does the same thing. Like, Jason’s stuck in canon, absolutely......but Dick keeps being popped out into his own microcosm to experience a couple years of stories that essentially turn him into completely different characters isolated from every communal part of his character’s history, and then ERASE everything that’s happened at the end of each of these stories and reset him to square one.....and that’s just a different kind of stagnancy that again, still never allows for actual character progression or development. Tim has LITERALLY been regressed back to Robin, like a hard reset that’s its own kind of stagnancy and Damian has had years of character development upended just to kick him back to where he started, effectively strip away all the connections he’s developed at least in any meaningful way, etc.....and the same holds true for Babs and Cass and Steph and even Bruce himself IMO, in a lot of ways.

Its absolutely a problem, but its a problem that extends far beyond just Jason even if he is a great example of it. And its also a problem that extends into fic itself, and that’s why I don’t agree with a lot of the conclusions that article draws beyond just the fundamental “these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions.”

Yes. That. That right there, THAT I think is crucial, but I think that writer needed to widen the scope a little to take in the full impact of what that actually MEANS for the characters....so as to not accidentally repeat the same problem they’re being critical of by essentially arguing for a full range of emotions for Jason....while still defining or viewing Jason through a finite lens of “the more morally ambiguous Bat character, at least as compared to his brothers.”

Because its that last part that’s so detrimental, because it seems like such a little thing at first, until you realize that essentially its just putting a ceiling, a cap on how far those full ranges of emotions can be expressed. Like the problem with Dick Grayson in canon and fanon is NOT that he can’t be written with a full range of emotions.....its that his character absolutely can encompass a wide range of opinions and viewpoints and emotional stances from “I don’t believe in killing as a first option” to “I absolutely can, will, and have beaten a damn clown to death for joking about murdering my brother”.....and he can still walk away as Dick Grayson after expressing both those things, because his character is big enough to include them both. HE’S not limited as a character, its canon writers and fandom writers that both heap artificial limitations of their OWN on him, say that his character is so defined in such a specific way that there’s no way for the latter expression of his character to actually be IN character.....and the fatal flaw here is fully fleshed out characters are never just one thing. They don’t fit in niches anymore than people do, and notice the problems we all run into when we try and pigeon hole people as being just one thing, like humans can’t be contradictory or act against their own self-interest or be hypocritical or evolve or even regress past prior viewpoints....basically, any time you try and sum up a human being in one line, no matter how accurate that description is, there’s still SOME things that are going to be left out of that picture. 

Now, these things don’t always have to matter that much, like if I look at a serial killer and say that’s a serial killer, like, I might be leaving out of the picture that once he helped an old lady across the street and didn’t kill her and he doesn’t even know why, and I for one, simply do not care that I leave that out of the picture. Its irrelevant to the big picture for me. I can acknowledge that it adds a smidgen of nuance to that particular picture and then go yeah but also I don’t care, nuance denied.

But in terms of fictional characters, these things that get left in the discard pile when we try and sum up characters as just one thing, like, they can be hugely significant, because characters unlike real people, are simply WHAT WE MAKE OF THEM. That stuff that’s been left out of the big picture look at that character because its stuff most people to DEFINE what that character looks like have deemed irrelevant....its still there, and still perfectly relevant for anyone who wants to pick that stuff up and make something of it, use it to change the overall picture or even just point to ways and places that picture can absolutely encompass and include these other elements and STILL fundamentally be that same picture, that same character.

And this isn’t to say that characters can never be written out of character, its to say that usually IMO what ACTUALLY makes the difference between something being out of character and something just being an unexpected but still valid character choice is just.....how these things are executed. The latter is when writers make the effort to JUSTIFY their character choice, to sell audiences on why and how this is absolutely something this character would do, to take them on a journey of what led the character to making this choice and let them see how those steps actually line up, that’s an actual journey that character might take. The former is when writers just don’t bother and are just like, well here’s a thing that character did, and you know it was in character because well that’s the character and that’s what I wrote them doing lol, what more do you want. No. Yawn. Next.

But the trick is if you’re going to try and make a character a SPECTRUM of emotions and choices rather than just a same datapoint recurring over and over again endlessly, a literal sticking point that never advances, never progresses, never changes......you have to actually give that character free range to utilize that spectrum of emotions and choices.....not just confine them to accessing all those possibilities but ONLY within a narrowly defined niche that is its own kind of limitation.

A character can START from a logline, absolutely. Can BEGIN in a narrative niche as a way to INTRODUCE them as seemingly different from their surroundings or their peers when they do not yet have the backstory, the evidence of past stories and character choices readers can use to interpret their actions or guess their choices.....but narrative niches, IMO, are meant to have a shelf life, an expiration date. They’re a seed for characters to grow FROM, to grow PAST, not return to over and over again.....because that’s when a niche just becomes another house that stagnancy built.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and the article mention.....it was an interesting exploration of thoughts for me even if I didn’t ultimately agree with a lot of what was already said....still a worthwhile read though I think and I mean hey, its cool if you still agree with it more even if I don’t, lol. This is just my take.

[wearetakingthehobbitstogallifrey]

I need more batman media but I don't know what to watch or where to watch it and Netflix took off Young Justice and Justice League :(:( do you have any fic recs or fun facts

A.  Blogsto follow if you haven’t already followed them, the first three write FREAKINGAMAZING fanfic and the fourth creates THE BEST fanart I have literally sat and scrolled through these blogs for hours

@camsthisky (good GOSH I love her she writes so much about Dick Grayson)

@audreycritter

@preciousthingsareprecious

@laquilasse

B.  RandomFics to Read (and honestly there are so many more, I just can’t think of themat the moment):

1. TheAcrobat Series 

by fishfingersandjellybabies http://archiveofourown.org/works/4079917

Look anytime anyone talks about how much Dick loveshis family they’ve won my heart and soul. I especially like the Kori section.

2.  Mori Shej 

bydickiegayson  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12298375/1/Mori-Shej

OH MY GOSH.  Ilove this story so freaking much.  Ok,imagine if Jason Todd, after coming back from the dead and going through allthat stuff with the Lazarus Pit and training, goes after Dick Grayson to gethis revenge on Bruce.  Except when heshows up at Dick’s apartment, ready to kill the Golden Son, he finds somethingcompletely unexpected.  Jason has a lotof issues, Dick has a lot of issues (courtesy of the Blockbuster incident).  I have read and reread this story countlesstimes, and I can never not cry because I love my broken sons so much.  There is a lot of anger, some cursing, muchregret, and brothers being brothers.  And Dick is the sweetest most protective [redacted because spoiler] and Jason has a mushy heart after all.  Itcan stand as complete but I think the author is writing more?  Also, either before or after, or both, go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqeNxdyp5CEand listen to the song.  It is my newfavorite song and CAN YOU IMAGINE DICK SINGING IT OH MY GOSH

3.  the roadwill only be wide (the rain will never stop falling) 

by weird_bird (2weird4) http://archiveofourown.org/works/8610391/chapters/19743343

A collection of Dick and Damian moments.  So very beautiful.

4.  The RobinsUnited Series, first story is Bird by Bird 

by laceymcbain  http://archiveofourown.org/works/2656487/chapters/5936243

…some hurt/comfort, Jason doesn’t know what the hellto do with his family, and they all insist on calling him brother.  *shrugs* family feels are my drug of choice

5.  Penny Lane 

by @jerseydevious  http://archiveofourown.org/works/11757690

Damian wants a horse, and drat I’m crying?  (tbh I cry very easily over my sons…but still)

6.  Sun Spot 

byDawn’sEternalLight (@preciousthingsareprecious) http://archiveofourown.org/works/11748606

This fic is a quiet moment of beauty and rest for Dickand Damian.  Damian draws, and Dickwatches his talented little bro.  Thereis sunlight.  You skin will clear andyour crops will grow and any heartache you have ever had will be healed likemagic!

C.  Abunch of fics by Kieron_O’Duibhir

1.  TheTill-Then From the Ever-Since http://archiveofourown.org/works/3506603/chapters/7707866  

There is a problem in the Batcave, as in, youngerversions of the Batfam keep turning up. It’s absolutely fantastic, and one of my favorite things is youngerJason being SO done with his older self and calling him out on stuff and being all protective of his brothers.  It gets better and better with every chapter.

2.  But a Walking Shadow http://archiveofourown.org/works/4259511/chapters/9641367

 Sothis story is not finished yet and the author takes waaay long to post updateson it but she has promised not to abandon it soo…It is Nightwing-centric, witha whole mess of comic Teen Titans making appearances.  The author has written a lot of stories abouta world where Dick became a Talon, and in this tale Talon-on-the-run winds upon Earth-1 and Nightwing is trying to figure out who this apparent clone of hisis.  Talon Dick has always intrigued me,and it is interesting seeing him and Nightwing face off.

3.  All the Roofs of Uncertainty http://archiveofourown.org/works/2273208/chapters/4994631

HOLY HECK this is one of my favorite Jason Todd fanfics EVER.  I love the description by the author “The onewhere Dick bleeds a lot and Jason argues with everybody.”  Jason is in the wrong spot at the wrong time,ie. He finds Dick bleeding to death and is forced to save him.  Tim and Damian make appearances.  Jason has anger issues.  That doesn’t stop him from caring.  Bruce and Jason hash things out in the mostbeautiful (painful) way.

4.  Wheel and Blade 

http://archiveofourown.org/works/2492957

 Inwhich Dick confronts Damian about his practice of taking weapons to school, andalso gets slightly distracted by the idea of living in a vardo.  I love this story because it shows the bestway to parent Damian—not by telling him no “because I said so” but byexplaining and debating things like he is smart and capable.  

5.  I Pass the Night Watchman on His Beat http://archiveofourown.org/works/2326226

Thisis a cool one-shot of Dick and Amy, his partner on the Bludhaven police force.  I freaking love Dick being a cop.

D.  Okay now if you want something towatch:

 1.     Nightwing—TheSeries 

by ismahawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o297A1wmys0

This is THE BEST Nightwing fan film I haveever seen.  I love the Dick Grayson in it—he’sgot acrobatics, sounds like Jesse McCartney (Robin/Nightwing’s VA in YJ), and is quite handsome.  He fights, gets the stuffing beat out of himand keeps getting back up, has a bit of a temper, loves Barbara—perfection.  Watch it, you won’t regret it.  (Also Jason is there yay!  I will take him in any capacity I can get. And I kinda really like the actor for Bruce?)

2.     RedHood: The Series—Episode One “Homecoming” 

by tenshunn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BdVSgshgFA&t=136s

My favorite Jason Toddfanfilm!!!  Heavily featuring TimDrake!  Look this adaption is fab, I lovethe actors and the dialogue and the fight between Jason and Tim (spoiler?)  As far as I know they are trying to puttogether a second episode.  Watch thevideo where Jason Todd tries to get people to donate money for it, itsHILARIOUS

3.      Batman The Animated Series is on Netflix tillSeptember 1st.  I’m in thesecond season and love it a lot…Alfred is so freaking sassy!  

4.     DamianWayne: Robins Fly at Night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS30bYjVmL4

 It’s just five minutesand doesn’t have any dialogue, and it doesn’t come close to deserving an Oscar, but dang it it’s hard to find Damian stuff…and also seeing a littlekid running around in the Robin costume made me realize that there is nothing Iwant more than to see Damian Wayne on the big screen, being all angry assassinkid, and Dick Grayson capturing him in a hug…

5. Gotham on Netflix

I am pretty sure you already watch this? But if not, DO!  It is AMAZING.  I love it so much, especially Bruce and Alfred and Selina Kyle

E.  Some things from Batman: Dark Victory

Okay I know he is a talented young acrobat and all but how the FUDGE did Dick get up on that chandelier?!  the kid can truly fly (yeah yeah, the stairs probably lead up to a hallway floor/balcony that Dick leapt off of but still) I wonder how many grey hairs the kid gave Alfred in those first weeks alone

On dark days I like to remember the time bby birb Dick Grayson caved in the Joker’s cheek with a well-placed kick.  My nine or ten year old son then proceeded to smash in the Joker’s teeth with a stick a few minutes later and it was amazing

You think I lied??  Nah my son Dick Grayson was cracking teeth and bones and witty puns from Day 1.  Go Robin!!!

Okay so just look at this picture.  Bby Dick is SO FREAKING TINY!!!  also very intense. OMG Batman’s fists are as big as his first son’s head!  *cue a very many feels in my heart*

F.  Random things I am including because I feel like it, and they all revolve around Dick Grayson mostly because he is my fave so…

1. Apparently some official websites say that Nightwing’s martial arts specialty is Aikido.  I do not think that word means what they think it means

2. “I close my eyes now for a few moments and I can see my parents riding the air current with me. Forever young. Forever strong. Their faces wide with excitement, big smiles on their faces, enjoying the adrenaline surge even more than I do. And there is one thing I am sure of … my parents would be proud of my life.” (Nightwing, Nightwing #141, 2008)  

3.  [Talking about Blüdhaven] “It’s a hopeless case. A lost cause. A town so mired in corruption and sin that it’s drowning … When Batman sent me here, I thought I’d solve one case and book. But then I realized … if I could make a difference here – well, that’d be something. This filthy old town needs me…. Surrounded by a dozen of my worst enemies. No way out. Nowhere to hide. The little brat was right. I do love it. (Nightwing, Nightwing Secret Files #1, 1999)

4.  There once was a dumb writer who thought killing Nightwing for real would be a good idea, and he tried writing toward that end, but everybody else was like hahahaha NO

5.  I used to hate when fic writers would shorten Damian’s name to Dami (kind of like how I majorly dislike when people shorten Sirius Black’s name to Siri, he is not an iPhone gosh).  But then I read a post on tumblr that said something about Dami actually meaning something in Arabic, something like blood or life-blood or heart blood…I can’t exactly remember what and maybe it isn’t even true but I choose to believe it is and that Dick knows exactly what it means and he calls Damian Dami as a way to show how special he is, how much Dick loves him.  Because Damian is his little brother/son and means the absolute world to Dick.  And Damian, though he pretends to despise all nicknames, absolutely LOVES that Dick calls him this

[captainshazamerica]

The redhood nightwing fight scenes look like they're gonna be dope af like thats all I'm thinking about how awesome the fight scenes are (hopefully) gonna be (I'm already finding it difficult to see this jason as redhood cuz he's like literally a child but I dunno what age he redhooded in the comics so??)

I had no idea tim was even gonna be in it !?! Can I please get some kind of recognition from the batboys that they actually view each other as brothers and family! 😢

Someone needs to kill the joker It'd be kinda interesting if old bruce killed joker and it'd be nice if that was the last thing he did as batman buuuttt then again it'd be a nice touch if dick killed joker for jason, it would personally be disappointing if joker was just let live not gonna lie i really want bruce to kill him and that be the reason he gives up being batman because he failed to protect jason and then he broke his no killing thing so he just hangs up the cape

we are getting FEAR TOXIN yassssss cue awesome nightmare ish fearscapes (no idea if that's an actual word but that's what I call when you get to see everyone's fear hallucination)

Kory I love you, I do ship dickkory however I feel like she's too good for dick and should marry me instead lol I wanna see how donna is still alive? and I know there's people who are like ughh hank dawn go away already but I really freakin like hank and dawn as characters even though their suits are ridiculous did they break up last season I can't remember? Hank needs a break poor man someone give him a blanket and a hug and let him sit the fuck down everybody leave hank alone

That line where babs is like don't try be your father and dick is like excuse me what you saying there Commissioner Gordon, that will never not be funny 😅😅😅

I ain't in love with this show it has so much potential it could be so lit but I do like it anndd they got suits now whoop!

Wait is this my previous Titans anon? (The one where we ranted about Jason, or the one thinking they hadn’t seen S2 but went to watch it and realized they had? Or are you the same person? xD )And if so are you the same one who asked for the comic and fic recs? Just wondering in terms of if I’m talking to one person or not hahaha

But ahh I got so excited when I saw I got an ask about this 😍

Omg the nightwing red hood fight already got me so stressed lol. It looks great but ahh angst! But I think Jason is like 19ish in most versions when he comes back? Though tbh I forgot what age Jason is in this , I’ll have to see when i rewatch it soon. Curran, the actor, is actually 23, he just looks super young/short. He got pretty buff though. But yeah, that is an unfortunate thing wi the them rushing it already but also, I’d rather have it like this than if they were gonna spread it out through the seasons then it gets cancelled or something (poor Gotham s5, RIP). I think he was the PERFECT robin jason Todd though. Like I love his acting and portrayal of Jason(“Titans are back bitches!” classic Jason), he just is young looking and short. Gosh I still wanna know if they are going with the Lazarus pit for Jason or not! But like that also begs the question of whether they are doing a time skip cause normally Jason is dead for like 2-3ish years, but it doesn’t look like it from the trailer.

And yes, I’ve been looking forwards to Tim!!! While the trailer didn’t show it, the actor was on set a lot over these last couple of months (I’ve been keeping up with their instagrams xD) and seemed super close with the cast! I can’t believe the first look we got if Tim was him nearly crying, though that look already won me over, I love him and he is my son now. But RIGHT! That’s all I want, is the bat bros platonic love, gosh dang it😭 that’s all we want DC😭

BRO! OLD MAN BRUCE KILLING JOKER WOULD BE FREAKING PERFECT. Dang it! Now I’m gonna be so disappointed if that doesn’t happen 🤣gosh it would be perfect, and normally I would be like it’s Bruce, they would never do that, BUT, this show does that kind of “edgy” stuff anyway so if it’s ever gonna happen(without the Batman who Laughs plot line happening(which would make a perfect dc animated movie btw)), it would happen in this show, especially with what was shown in the trailer with him giving Batman up. Man, now my hopes are up for that xD though I wouldn’t mind if Dick killed him. I would be shocked though if they had the balls to actually kill off joker though, dc seems to refuse to do that :/

Omg I squealed at the scarecrow part omg. Dr freaking Crane is a big reason I spiraled down this entire fandom tbh. Like literally a year ago I got obsessed with him for some reason and that led into the Bat hole where I am currently WAY deeper than I ever would have thought 😂 and while I’m not hyper fixated on him anymore, I still love him so much and is my 2nd fav rogue, and it mainly started with Jonathan 🥺 we barely even see his face and I am already in love with the casting, the voice is perfect. And I LOVE when villains have to help the heroes, that is like one of my fav tropes ever omg, I was really hoping they were gonna do that to him. I hope he is in it for more than one episode tho. And oh lordy, like those poor Titans need even more trauma in their lives and now fear gas is in the equation. Oh no, I bet poor Gar is gonna get hit cause they just love to torture that poor boy. And tbh I hope the fearscapes(perfect word for it) will be better than most of the Gotham ones, those seemed a tad cheesy tbh

Lmao about you and kory😂 she is too good for him, but also, this Dick needs someone who can kick his ass and get his head out of his martyr butt 😂 tho tbh, I’m still not fully sold on Dickkory, Like I don’t hate it but I don’t LOVE it in many versions, like they can be cute but no strong feelings, the Original Teen Titans cartoon is like the only exception, I def ship those 2

Omg I low key forgot Donna “died”😂🤦🏻‍♀️ I feel like I knew it wouldn’t last so it didn’t have a big impact on me lol. Like I had/have a feel raven is gonna bring her back. I wanna know what happened to Rose/Joey! Like are they not gonna be in it at all? Especially with Jason going off the deep end?!

Lmao, hawk and dove’s suits😂 I think they did break up, I’ve only seen the series once through tbh, planning to rewatch before S3 tho(and try to force my mom to watch it tho she is convinced everything DC is too dark for her lmao), yeah, I don’t mind them, like I don’t want the focus on them but like they deserve to be happy/need a break, omg yes! That boy needs to be wrapped in a blanket and given a break, that grumpy boy is TIRED. Let him rest!

Lmao! That babs line is so great😂

I’m just so excited for all this live action Batfam content, considering the live action movies NEVER give us Batfam 😭(we aren’t talking about the 80’s/90’s live action robin lmao)

Also so sorry this was so long 🤣🤦🏻‍♀️

[bigskydreaming]

How old was jason when he died? And when he was resurrected?? And that time he spent dead make him crazier than Ra's when he is under the pit's effect?

The general consensus as far as I’m aware is that Jason was fifteen when he died, and he came back to Gotham in Under the Red Hood about five years later. There’s a couple different versions of the in between time, but most common I believe is that he was resurrected due to multiverse bullshit (like, the official explanation is that an evil teenage version of Clark Kent punched the dimensional walls of the place he was trapped outside of normal time/space so hard that the ripple effects of him breaking through like, caused ‘hiccups’ or anomalies across various universes - one of these being Jason’s resurrection. Yeah. I’m not making this up. LOL).

ANYWAY. The go-to version of the timeline I believe is that this happened about six months after Jason died, which was right around the time Tim started trying to convince Dick to come back and be Robin again and ultimately ended up becoming Robin himself. When Jason dug himself out of his grave, he was largely catatonic and unresponsive, and here’s where it tends to be most vague. After some period of time, which could have been anything from days to weeks to months, depending on who you ask, Talia was in Gotham for supervillain shenanigans or whatnot, came across him and realized who he was, and took him back to the League with her. 

Where again it depends on who you ask, after some period of time, ultimately Talia convinced Ra’s to put Jason in the Pit to see if it would restore him to full consciousness and heal the remaining physical after-effects of his death. And also, her reasons for doing this tend to be subject to your own personal interpretation of Talia. Some view this as her doing it for Bruce’s sake, some view it as her just wanting to use Jason as her pawn against Bruce, etc.

Personally, I view it as somewhat in between, though again this is just my take. I ignore ‘Talia the rapist’ characterizations in both regards to her actions with Bruce and Jason, so I mean, I’m just not here for Morrison or Winick’s take on her in that regard. BUT I also kinda....highly object to the ‘soft’ characterizations of Talia that kind of make her the ideal parent that highlights how crappy Bruce is in comparison? Like, its no secret that I’m hugely critical of Bruce’s parenting, but I just....personally am not a fan of acting like Talia is amazing at it and noble and selfless either. I don’t like the outright vilification of Talia - especially when she ends up coming across as worse than Ra’s, which, no thank you - BUT I don’t like...blunting all her edges either, for lack of a better phrasing. 

I tend to view her as someone who is extremely ambitious, ruthless and uncompromising in her own ways. I think a huge part of her dynamic with Bruce is that they mirror each other in so many ways, even if they’re not always on the same page. She’s often used as a narrative foil to Bruce, but I disagree - I think Selina and Bruce are the ‘opposites attract’ whereas Talia and Bruce are the ‘like calls to like/their bond in large part stems from how well they understand each other, even though they have different goals and aims most of the time’. 

But point being, like......I don’t like shallow, two-dimensional interpretations of Talia where she’s just evil and has no shades of gray to her, but I also don’t like the flip side of that and her being viewed as the lesser of two evils compared to Bruce. Like, sorry not sorry, I think both of them need to take some parenting classes. Unless you drastically change Damian’s entire backstory and characterization by the time he arrives in Gotham, and/or insist that Damian’s upbringing was all entirely due to Ra’s control and Talia at no point in ten years had the option of arranging for her son to end up with Bruce or somewhere else where he didn’t spend his childhood being taught that affection was a sign of weakness and how to murder his nanny in six hundred different ways and show his work plz, like......I have trouble with the super!mom Talia takes.

All of which is just to say....I don’t believe Talia brought Jason back with her and put him in the Pit out of the goodness of her heart, but I don’t think it was entirely absent of positive intentions either? If that makes sense? I just mean...she’s a SUPER complicated woman in my take, and that’s what makes her so much more interesting than she’s usually reduced to being in a lot of stories. Talia is not as stone cold as she often comes across as a defense mechanism - I think she is someone who feels things deeply, but she shuts that down even harder than Bruce. She’s a very pragmatic individual, and I think she tends to justify a lot of even her most emotional-driven choices by finding an advantageous spin she can put forth as her ‘real reason’ for doing things.

So....I think her feelings for Bruce DID have a lot to do with her taking Jason with her. She does love Bruce in her own way, she always keeps an eye on him so she absolutely had to have been aware just how badly Jason’s death was affecting him, and so I think when she first saw Jason and realized who he was....I do think on a gut level, her motivations were like, she felt a need or want to take him with her and see that he was well cared for, for Bruce’s sake if nothing else.

BUT....I think the complication is she has trouble justifying that to herself, even, let alone to her father or subordinates or any of the others who constantly seek an edge over her within the League’s inner power structures and hierarchies. So I think that’s where the pragmatic side of her took over, and once she DID see to Jason at least nominally being taken care of....that’s when she started to look at it in terms of how she could play this to her advantage as well.....and whether that ultimately was in pursuit of convincing Bruce to join her side, and using Jason as leverage there, or just hurting Bruce for rejecting and hurting her and her chosen path, and using Jason to accomplish that.....tbh, like I said, I see Talia as an extremely complicated person and IMO the most likely take is that even SHE probably couldn’t say which she truly wanted or intended.....or perhaps it just changed at various points, and more than once.

My point with this tangent is I think there tends to be a very narrow focus on Jason’s return and Talia’s role in it as opposed to just the Pit in general. As much as Talia did help Jason, I think it doesn’t get acknowledged enough that as long as her own motivations and agenda were AT ANY LEVEL behind her choice not to reveal he was alive to Bruce....that’s something that I think could use more scrutiny in fandom, because that is a selfish choice, even if she did nominally spin it as being in Jason’s best interests. I just mean....it was a complicated situation, she’s a complicated person, you can’t add that up and still walk away with the simple narrative “Talia helped Jason after he came back to life and everything she did was to his benefit and in his best interests’ you know?

The thing is, the Pit’s influence aside, we have NO idea how things might have gone if Bruce, Dick and Alfred had ever gotten the CHANCE to get to Jason immediately after his submersion in the Pit and try and help him through it.....because Talia and Ra’s didn’t allow for them to ever have that chance. And that is a hugely critical plot point I think, that’s gone largely unexplored. There’s a lot of attention paid to how Jason felt upon learning that the Joker was alive, that there was a new Robin....but not a ton of attention paid to the HOW of Jason finding out all these things, and just how exactly this information was delivered to him and in what framing and context.

Because again, Pit influence aside....just sheerly in terms of the massive trauma and disorientation Jason had to have been going through upon having his full cognitive faculties restored by the Pit.....like....Jason came back to Gotham as an adult, ultimately. But at THAT stage of things....he was still likely only sixteen or so. VERY young. VERY traumatized. COMPLETELY isolated from all previous existing support networks.....and all of that adds up to being VERY. VERY. Impressionable.

And this is the part I wish got more focus. Just how much influence Talia, Ra’s and the League in general had over Jason’s thought processes, morality and ethics during that period he lived and trained with them....in the wake of a massive traumatic ordeal and with zero effort paid towards helping him cope and recover in any way other than what they laid out for him there. See, whatever Talia’s actual motivations for bringing him back and putting him in the Pit were....there’s not really any denying IMO that once that was done, she still took advantage of the opportunity Jason’s impressionability and gratitude for what she’d done (and just the interest and care she’d demonstrated in his eyes merely by doing it)....like, she still took advantage of the...influence this gave her over him.

Like.....Under the Red Hood? Eight heads in a duffle bag as Jason brutally slaughtered some of the key members of various crime organizations in Gotham and used that to gain the attention and fear and/or respect of various crime lords and organizations?

That didn’t come out of nowhere. And personally I think there’s too much focus paid to Jason’s potential for violence before his death, the murkiness surrounding Felipe Garzona’s death, and the effect the Pit still had on his mind when he returned to Gotham.......and not enough focus paid on WHERE AND WHO HE SPENT ALL HIS TIME WITH IN BETWEEN THESE THINGS.  

Because as brutal as Jason could be at times as Robin......eight heads in a duffel bag is still a LONG way away from that. What its NOT a long way away from, however....is League of Assassins training, methodology and worldview.

Like, literally everything Jason did in Under the Red Hood came right smack out of the League’s playbook, so I’ve always just been like....forget the Pit for a second, guys! What about just....examining what effect being surrounded and trained by League assassins for three or four straight years in the wake of massive, life-altering trauma and circumstances that make you feel both INDEBTED to said League and BETRAYED BY all your previous loved ones who weren’t there for you....because they never had the opportunity TO be there, given that they weren’t the ones that ran into Jason while he was on the streets after digging himself up and like, even in the DC universe AT THAT TIME ‘hey wonder if he might end up resurrected somehow’ was not like, something that was at the forefront of anyone’s mind as a likely possibility?

LOL. Anyway. So that’s my hot take on Jason’s return.....yes, the Pit undoubtedly played a role, but I would love love love to see more of a role given just to looking at the sheer INFLUENCE the League and their teachings had over an isolated, traumatized and impressionable teenager.

As for the Pit itself.....that’s a topic for another day, probably, lol, but like...I have a LOT of thoughts about the Pit and how its used in various narratives, canon and otherwise. Because the thing is....its effects STARTED out as being brought into stories about Ra’s as kind of a moral fable. Like, essentially, the effects of the Pit in early stories were like....IMO more intended as a cautionary type narrative about the dangers of greed and being power-hungry, seeking to control even life and death, etc? I just mean like.....it originally came off as more of the idea “there’s no such thing as a free lunch” or in essence...everything has a price, and with something like immortality, the price is steep. There was a lot of focus initially on the idea that Ra’s was the man he’d become...only after centuries of using the Pit’s power to remain young, vital and alive. Power corrupts, essentially.

However, the problem I have...is that narrative becomes a wholly different thing when the Pit affects someone who DIDN’T seek to use its power, who wasn’t using it for selfish gain....nor like in Jason’s case...did they even have a choice about using it at all! This is the same issue I have with keeping Dick as a Talon in Court of Owls stories, and certain ways Cassandra’s story is told and her body language skills are used and discussed: I have a deep dissatisfaction with the idea of abuse inflicted by others, being like...the origin story or source of someone’s powers....when its paired at the same time with consequences that the person never asked for, would never have asked for......but the powers themselves tend to be the only thing focused on, rather than the drawbacks, with the overall takeaway ending up being that like.....the person should be grateful that the abuse happened in the first place because now they have these powers see, and isn’t that the most important thing?

So to correct myself, it isn’t quite the same thing, but I mean....the issue I have with Jason and the Pit here, in comparison, is that....Jason had no agency in choosing to go into the Pit. So to me.....its a big, BIG problem to have him ‘benefit’ from that in the form of look, he’s alive and well again, he has a second chance.....IF equal scrutiny isn’t being paid to the price he is stuck paying for the ‘gifts’ of the Pit, that second chance.....when he never asked to pay it in the first place. 

And I don’t actually think I’m the only one who has that problem, I think most people just don’t spell it out to that degree....because what I mean there is......the Pit’s effects ever since Jason’s return like....aren’t viewed in the context of being a morality narrative anymore. At least not in regards to him. People rarely write the Pit as ‘corrupting’ Jason the way it was once suggested to have corrupted Ra’s, because like....Jason was a victim, not a person motivated by selfish desires for immortality. And people want him to be a hero (or at least an antihero) rather than the villain that DC has at times tried to make him instead....and I think even unconsciously, we’re all aware that it doesn’t really work to have a character like that ‘forced’ into a villainous role because of exposure to a mystical corrupting agent they never asked to be exposed to.

SO. The end result of THAT is that.....the way people write about the Pit has shifted, both in canon and fandom. And now the Pit’s effects are viewed less as a cautionary morality fable and more as like...a heightened form of PTSD, a metaphor for the extreme and beyond-imagining trauma of being brutally killed and brought back to life again.

And that is where things get murky for me again, because you end up with an unintentionally confused/skewed narrative where writers and readers often aren’t even sure themselves if they’re writing this mystical McGuffin as being an external force of corruption that makes people ‘worse versions of themselves’ OR whether its a PTSD/trauma metaphor that highlights the hurt/confusion/paranoia/intensity of tangled emotions that survivors of great traumas experience. And the problem there is, without actually intending to....I think you inevitably end up dipping into a lot of really problematic ableist ideas that reinforce some pretty negative impressions of mental illness, bad survivors and recovery in general.

Oops. Tangents happened again, huh. Oh well. Hope your answers are in there along with everything else I stuffed that response full of, lol!

[bigskydreaming]

Do you have any opinions on Jason’s current Dark Trinity Outlaws team? What do you think about people wanting to turn it into an “Antihero League” by adding characters like Godspeed, Rankorr, Ocean Master (Or Koryak) and Thomas Merlyn?

Not really - I don’t keep current with Jason’s comics, more just keep up with issue summaries because I just….I hate how Lobdell writes him so so so so so much. LMAO.

I’m gonna ramble about Jason and his writing now, so apologies if that’s not what you were looking for with this question, lol.

As much as I love him, Jason, more than most characters, is plagued by the problem of being extremely attractive to gritty edgelord writers with zero capacity for any kind of emotional or moral complexity, and I hate it lots and lots, lol. Like, I’ve said before that I agree with a lot of Jason’s stances more than I do say, Bruce’s, but there’s all kinds of layers to them that just NEVER get so much as glanced at, when people like Lobdell are the ones doing all the scripting.

Like, so many of Jason’s writers are so busy emphasizing that he’s RIGHT and his take on killing criminals and villains is GOOD, that nobody has ever stopped to ask….why does it have to be JASON, specifically, a traumatized twenty year old who’s already been through more than anyone should ever have to….that has to do the actual killing, in order to validate that particular position?

What I mean is….these characters are supposed to be more than just their basic premise, the ideologies they espouse or embody. They’re supposed to be CHARACTERS too, with lives, dreams, emotions…and everybody’s so busy pitting Jason against his father in a war of ideological attrition that nobody in the comics ever just stops and says to him….hey, you can be 100% right about all of this, and still not need to be the one who takes on the burden of proving it. You don’t exist just to be a criminal killing machine simply because you happen to have this viewpoint….there are other ways you can still make a difference and help people.

I’ve said before, I actually think Dick’s moral stance on killing isn’t as cut and dried as people make it. I think he freaks out when he’s pushed to that line himself because he’s got massive abandonment issues and is afraid of disappointing Bruce, but given how easily he’s able to make his peace with working with people with enormous body counts, without any real judgment, I think he honestly believes that killing should never be an ideal first choice, but sometimes its a necessary evil. The thing is though….believing that doesn’t mean that HE, personally….needs to be a killer….and he pushes back against that so heavily not because he so diehard believes that killing is never justified, but because being the master of his own destiny is so hugely important to him, and too many people over the years have spent too much time trying to mold him into a killer for him to ever see himself crossing that line as anything other than letting them win. Hell, if you read the actual issue in Last Laugh where he kills the Joker….his major issue and the source of his freakout isn’t so much that he killed the Joker or crossed that line specifically…its that in doing so, he let the Joker win. He gave the Joker what he wanted out of that whole mess. Like, that’s literally his dialogue.

And the thing I see missing from so many Jason stories is…..writers never give him the opportunity to stop and go, okay, I’ve established what I BELIEVE….but now, what do I WANT? None of the Batfamily ever set out as vigilantes with the belief that they would actually ‘fix’ the world in their lifetime. No matter how long they live, after they die, crime will still exist, there will still be bad guys, people will still murder other people. None of them have ever been under the illusion that there’s some finite endpoint to all of this, that if they reach it, the job is done, the world is better…..and so its not like killing even the worst of the worst, so they never have an opportunity to break out and commit more crimes like…that doesn’t actually whittle down the numbers and in doing so get Jason closer to the magic ‘endpoint’ in which like, they can all rest easy, Gotham is all better now.

My point being, there are lots of ways to make a difference, and the way each vigilante chooses as their way of making a difference is still valid, even if its not ‘the most efficient’ method, you know? They don’t exist, as characters, simply to be the most efficient ways of countering crime. Its more, they exist as characters, and as characters, these are the ways they choose to live their lives, what to do with their time, how to make the most of their existence as PEOPLE. Their purpose is helping people, protecting people….and killing the worst of the worst may be one way to do that, may even in some instances be the most efficient way of doing that….but that doesn’t inherently render all other ways of doing that meaningless.

Like, Batman or Nightwing or Red Robin might save someone from a murderer, and put that murderer in jail…and that murderer might then get released and escape and go on to murder someone else…..but that doesn’t mean that the life they saved initially doesn’t matter, just because the way they did it didn’t ultimately put a definitive stop to the murderer’s crimes. And no, it doesn’t mean that the later life or lives he takes don’t matter either, or that they couldn’t have been saved if Batman or the others had killed him at their earlier opportunity….but just because they’ve chosen to dedicate themselves to saving and protecting people, doesn’t by extension mean they OWE it to anyone to become killers in the process, if that’s not something they want for themselves. Its not a zero sum game. A life saved versus a life taken at a later point do not cancel each other out, because no lives are interchangeable, you can’t treat them as math where its a matter of balancing equations and making the numbers all line up. Innocent lives saved are still innocent lives saved….no matter what happens elsewhere or later….and the responsibility for a criminal’s later crimes will still always be more that criminal’s.

Now, like when Jason argues when its someone like the Joker, who they all know will always get free again and will never stop, and its an inevitability, all but a certainty? I agree with him, completely. I think the only way to truly stop the Joker is to kill him, and not doing so at least means an awareness that at some later point, he will end up taking more lives that could have been saved if someone had killed him sooner.

But I don’t personally view Bruce as a hypocrite because he refuses to kill the Joker personally. Like I said, I don’t view killing as a NECESSITY because you choose to be a hero and try and help people. If he’s afraid of what it would do to him, what it would turn him into….he’s allowed to be. No, I view Bruce’s hypocrisy there as being more about him trying to put that personal boundary on EVERYONE….to try and make everyone’s behavior and choices line up in accordance with the choice he was only justified in making for HIMSELF. I don’t think people the Joker killed are more on Bruce because he has refused to ever kill the Joker, personally….but I do think that say, once Bruce proactively stepped forward to resuscitate the Joker after Dick killed him, like….that’s where it definitively in my book gets to be like, yo dude, nobody asked you to do that, not even Dick, you BROUGHT HIM BACK so yeah, later acts of Jokerism are kinda on you too.

Meanwhile I don’t view Dick as a hypocrite for not killing people even if I think he believes some people deserve it….because all the things he does to save or help people aren’t rendered invalid or obsolete just because there’s feasibly a more ‘efficient’ way of helping or saving people that he refuses to do….because he understandably doesn’t want to pay the personal toll or price that’s required.

But you see what I mean? There’s SO much more to Jason’s philosophy than any of his writers really ever let there be….because it shouldn’t JUST be about his philosophy and his ideas, it should be equally about his wants, his desires, who he is as a character and how he wants to spend his life. It shouldn’t just be about making killing people, and all the issues that come along with it and cause strife between him and his family, like….just his default setting because its the most efficient way of fighting crime, according to his personal beliefs, and he only exists to be the most efficient crime fighter he can be.

If Jason has those scenes, if he thinks about all this stuff and we’re shown him deciding yes, even with all of that, this is what he WANTS to do, like….I don’t have a problem with that, because I get it. I agree with those choices. But I WANT THOSE SCENES, is the thing that none of these writers give me. I want his personhood to be just as acknowledged as his vigilante philosophy.

And that’s the kind of complexity and nuance and THOUGHT that his writers seem to have no interest in giving him and his stories, and that’s where I’m like…..ugh. Writers like Lobdell just want to write him because he’s the bad-ass black sheep of the Batfamily and he’s their excuse to be all ‘anything goes’ with their stories, rather than centering them around….who is Jason Todd, why is he that way, does he WANT to be that way, and if not, what’s he going to do about that?

LOL. So on a similar note, and back to your question….I don’t really have any interest in reading his Dark Trinity team expanded to be a full Antihero Justice League because I have no faith in any of these writers to introduce anymore complexity to their ‘antihero’ status just because they’ve introduced more characters into the lineup. Just likely to be more of the same, IMO.

DC, and media in general, tbh, have a big problem with prioritizing spectacle over substance. They go for the flashiest choice, the most visibly ‘iconic,’ such as pairing the ‘rogue Batman’ with the ‘anti Superman’ and the ‘rogue Amazon’ and being like well that’s all we need, that’s a winning recipe right there, like, cool if you can make a good story out of that combination but that’s just a bonus, like that’s not really a requirement. We can sell based just on having that formula. And to me, that’s all a full Antihero Justice League would be. Just another way for them to just use a splashy tagline and ad copy as a shortcut for like…writing actual stories that prioritize actual characterization and examining what brings all these characters together and how do they organically interact with each other and what do they have to say with all of that….rather than just ‘morally grey good guys shoot people, blow things up, much blood and cussing, the real heroes make scowly faces at them, middle fingers and yelling WE DO WHAT WE WANT, everyone goes home til next time.’

[redjaybathood]

How do you want them to play out in Jason's arc in season 2 of titans if he gets enough screentime?

https://redjaybathood.tumblr.com/post/180897284660/so-what-im-going-to-need-from-season-2-of

That's what I wanted while the season 1 was still ongoing, I guess, Fine Feathered F(r)iends team up. A Hawk, A Dove, and a Robin. I guess we still can have it, after all Rachel did send Dawn and Hank after Jason, though for what reason, I can't predict except in a sense it wouldn't be really satisfying. I enjoy Titans very much, but I trust the people behind the show to utilise characters properly even less than I trusted Jeff Davis to make Teen Wolf make sense.

That said, Titans just not really a good show for a proper Jason Todd arc. He will only be a prop here, for Dick Grayson angst or Nightwing creation or something like that. It's whatever; it wouldn't be fair to expect Jason to have more story time than the original four. It simply not his story. He has his own issues to battle with, and they are not Titans issues.

Buuuut. Wouldn't it be cool, if Jason, being benched or fired by Batman for going AWOL for the second time - I still doubt Bruce sent him after Dick for help to deal with a minor and fairly predictable villian - to help with Trigon, instead takes up a mantle of RedX, and now he in turns is a target of Titans mission, when he, idk, steals something science-y, and helps them battle Slade Wilson. I guess it's more of a season 3 thing.

For season 4, if creators decide to introduce cheap romantical drama between Dick and Kory, and introduce another female lead who would become his new romantic interest, I wouldn't be against Kory, Roy and Jason branching into Outlaws.

What I don't want, is a Red Hood storyline here. The most impact for it is when you have Batman present, either to brood staring on a glass case with blood-streaked uniform (though you could kinda do it with Dick too), or for Red Hood to brood over staring at him from the distance, making everything he can to make Batman hate him while trying to get him to prove Bruce's love for Jason.

I kinda hate it, tbh, I would prefer Jason's own show, if he ever gets that, to nix the Under the Hood storyline entirely; yeah, it's THE story, best Jason's story there is, iconic. Yet, I hate what he never really got over it in comics. I really would prefer him to make healthier choices instead and not seek something he will never get - and also because what he seeks is not something that he needs, that will be good for him. And I don't want to watch him get it after a failed attempt, even. It still would be painful for me to watch - and also, nothing new. So, let's say, Jason crawls from the grave, in almost catatonic state, gets hit by a car and taken in the hospital by ER, they stabilise him but they can't really make his brain work right. Amnesia, aphasia, unexplainable mood swings, something else. He's now a homeless wierdo with a creepy Y-shaped scare on a torso. Live on Gotham streets sucks as usual. He sees Robin, once; he can't shake off a feeling of wrongness, here, because maybe he can't remember his own name but he thinks he remembers that Robin used to be a boy. He talks to some people; yeah, definitely a boy, or even several of them, no less than three, and how fucking creepy is that the Batman goes through them as a pack of t-shirts he bought in Walmart in bulk. Come to think of it, where he gets those kids? Did he really bought them? His gear is expensive; whoever bankrolls him (Jason can't cross out any of Gotham's usual suspects, even Joker (especially Joker, it's exactly his kind of sick charade), to create a handy opportunity to disrupt your competition's ops (even if now and again you have to do a stint in Arkham to not blow your cover) probably would not blink at allocating funds for that, too.

Kids dissapear from streats all the time, and really, where else would you pull them from? Well, Jason has a couple of alternative ideas but no way to check them out, and anyway, he has enough troubles to borrow any.

It's just, when he met Robin, she rescued him from Black Mask's men, and week after that, she's tortured to death, and week after that - there is a new fucking Robin, and Roman Sionis, he lives and breaths, still. And kids still keep dissappearing. Now even more.

Jason does not exactly looks into this, exceot he does, he totally keeps an eye on kids he knows in the 'hood, and when another one is taken, he goes after.

It's Pyg, though.

Jason still kills him.

Sasha, the girl he rescued, sticks to his side after that. He's not exactly okay with it except for how he's too anxious to let her out of sight. He teaches her to fight, and climb, and run, and everything he doesn't quite remember but knows how to do anyway.

Then Black Mask comes after him again, because Jason's is of school of thought that practice is the best teacher, and they've been busy cleaning up neighboorhood. And now, Jason realises he needs to hit back and hit hard, and killing Black Mask would not really accomplish anything - not because it's wrong, because it's not enough. His place would be filled by another power-hungry masked freak, and his men would fall in line because there's livelihood in that where's another in Gotham none, for people like them, from Criminal Alley slums.

That's when he does the "heads in a bag" trick and appears on Batman's radar at last.

Now, this Jason does not have League of Shadows training. But now he has network of people he helped, people who know him, and see the benefit (not good, it's not a useful cathegory here) in what he does. Those people ressurect Red Hoods gang name, not him, but he goes along with it, not knowing it will make Joker sit up in his cozy cell and take notice, too.

Meanwhile, Jason still looks into Robins conveyer belt. Kids have to come from somewhere, right? But, you know, he doesn't think anymore it's streets. Sasha made amazing progress since taking up her Scarlet mantle, as SIC in Red Hoods, but when she was fighting with Robin, she got her ass handed to her. It makes Jason think; what if instead of going of low-risk, low-profile but also low-usefulness kids who needs to be trained for a very long time than Robins seem to be, Batman acquires kids already half-way there? Even kids with parents and in real homes get taken. Even rich kids (who could spend time and money learning karate or rock-climbing or something) get kidnapped, even killed. Killing them, or, rather, staging it, would be a great way of making police get off theor trail. Everyone would look not for a kid but for his killers - maybe the Commissioner would ask Batman for help on this, even.

That's how Jason stumbles on Court of Owls.

So, we have Black Mask, Joker, Court of Owl going after Jason simultaneously. But his real enemy, who he hates and fears the most, is actually Batman, who Jason still can't figure out who he works for, and where he gets kids and what he does with them before, during and afterwards, and who everyone else doesn't really see as a threat. He doesn't kill, right? He's a good guy?

Ok, so Court of Owl is not actively after him with all their might, he only digs up little. He even has to team up with Nightwing on some occasion. Still, they don't know he knows.

Black Mask is more immediate problem. And, after Jason pissed him off enough, Joker, who he sprung from his cell. Jason doesn't have elaborate plan for that, though, he just blows up their meeting place to smithereens. Joker escapes, though, the roach. And now Jason has to track him down,ASAP, because the more time Joker has to plot, less time Jason and, like, just random people have to live.

And there's Batman. Who allocates more resources for tracking the Red Hood down than the Joker, and Jason just doesn't have time for this. He attacks Robin to make Batman distracted (also to test how attached he is to Robins while they still alive and could be useful; also to interrogate Robin to get a hint of their dynamics, where he came from, and to try to plant a seed of doubt in Robin: hey, how do you like to be Replacement's Replacement? You know what happened to all the guys before that?). But it does not do much good.

The final battle is three-way; it's wierd. Batman almost but not quite pulls his punches (or at least doesn't take an opportunity to kill Jason), Joker is almost distracted. In the end, Jason has him in headlock and a gun to his head, and he says to Batman that he will blow Joker's brains out if he does not let him leave.

Batman does not bite, ofc. Jason does not really expected him to. But what he does not expect either is for Joker to start laughing about fathers and sons and intergenerational conflicts and daddy issues and whatever. And Jason doesn't understands it, except he sees that Batman does. He sees it just when he sees a batarang coming at his throat, and he knows he will die - the least he could do is to take Joker under before. Jason blows his brains out with all the hints that Joker knows who Jason is and how he's connected to Batman, and Jason is ok with it.

The batarang and the explosions afterwards not so much.

Sasha finds him after. Well, Sasha finds someone who can find him and whisk him off to escape the explosion, and she finds him right in the Black Mask's lab. Bizarro saves Jason from the certain death though not from ugly scar on his throat.

Jason also meets Artemis, who used chaos generated by BM and RH gangs to sneak into Black Mask's lab (where Sasha and Bizarro were at the time, and the three of them fought their way out).

Sasha, Artemis and Bizarro became fast friends, and when Sasha says she wants to help Artemis to find Ra's Bow, Jason lets her go. Bizarro, ofc, goes with them.

Jason stays in Gotham,hurt, alone, confused and stranded with a crumbling empire of his enemy, which he needs to re-made in something workable and ethical and as humane as it could be. While Batman is still after him and quite possibly his father.

[captainshazamerica]

that's what I'm afraid of too!!! if they don't stick to the red hood plot and from the trailer doesn't quite look like it so are they seriously just gonna have joker beat him to literal death and that's it!?! They better not do that why can't joker just piss off and tbh I'd rather he give dick a couple of whacks with the crowbar

Soooo much comfort content is gonna be needed, also kinda random here but I wish babs was in the show and it'd be kinda nice if talia made an appearance. I feel robbed of Alfred ) : they could have made bruce like 50 or smth and alfred could still be around and Bruce could just have his secret justice league mission that keeps him away and then we get alfred jason and dick. (I'd have found it so hilarious if alfred was frantically running around the manor after jason on that motorbike 😅) I also apologise for dumping my speculation and rambling on you lol x and just to forewarn you if jason legitimately dies dies I'm prob gonna come here to cry about it

Ahh I’m so sorry I took so long to reply!

Right! Like I’m so happy we are finally getting a live action red hood but I just hope they don’t rush it/force anything/make it shallow. And lmao about rather having Dick be beat a few times 🤣the boy already has a slight martyr complex, that would just boost it xD

Oh and Babs is gonna be in it this season! By an actually disabled actress too!!!

I’m so interested to see how they do Tim, I just hope they don’t make him too boring like they did in Young Justice tbh

Bro, I legit thought Bruce was Alfred at first 🤣 like for all the hate he gets, I honestly don’t think he’s a bad Bruce in his acting and portrayal, they just casted him way too old, like he’s a perfect older Bruce but doesn’t fully match the normal timeline. Omg, Alfred with Jason’s motorcycle stunt would have been too good!

Omg never apologize for speculation dumping/ranting etc! I got so excited tbh cause normally I just ramble into the wind if I post my thoughts/don’t know anyone in real life who watches! Also feel free to come here and rent/dump!!!!! I love it!