#and start with Singer Dabb and Buckleming

[seenashwrite]

Okay, okay - how’s about *this* - if it just haaaaaad to be Mikey...

...and they just haaaaaaad to have a moment with the eye glow, then - and hear me out, Dabb, you unimaginative basic bitch treading water in a shallow kiddie pool with a deflated ring float around your knees - be subtle about it. Here’s how.

The tee-up with Dean saying engine-driver etc. was good, I give you props, and it was a nice little “Hmmm” to see that it was Dean fighting and not Michael. Legit. That was good. Now on to where you took something with potential and whiffed it.

Like I said in a prior post, blah blah blah, have Luci in Sam, and Mikey in Dean, battle royale is bitchin’ and the stakes are actually high and it calls back to Demon Dean and last time Luci possessed Sam and beat the shit out of Dean, all that junk (but FFS pump the brakes on flying, obvious harnesses were obvious, just a touch would’ve been groovy), then blah blah make up something about something - just go with Jack ex machina, that’s fine, I’m not looking for the Academy Award for screenwriting, here - and the angels are expelled from the guys. 

Brief -- BRIIIIIIEEEEF, Dabb - dialogue a la: “Whew! They’ve been expelled! Jack’s run off to find them because he’s all teen angsty! Oh noes! Cas is gonna Eeyore hardcore! Kick-off drama for S14 is all set up! Now back to the bunker we go!”

And then after a beer and getting everything mellowed down over your------

Sorry, got freeze framed there for a second.

-------last five minutes, there’s a bro moment of “love ya without saying it, looks like we’re in the shit again, we can do it because bro stuff, etc.” and it’s dim in the bunker ‘cause maybe Sam’s shut off some library lamps or Dean’s flicked off the kitchen light, and as he exits to go down the hallway, the soft smile he had on his lips (see above, re: bro moment) falls away, and hit me baby one more time, what’s that?!?!  [whispers] Oooh, pretty blue peepers. Because see, we’re smart, your audience, and we’ll go HEY MICHAEL’S STILL IN THERE! And if somehow some folks don’t get it, well, holy fucknoodles first of all, but more importantly who caaaaares, stop writing for the lowest common denominator.

So. Touch of blue. A touch. And then hard cut --- 

and I mean haaaaaard, abrupt, don’t take me out to dinner first, bend me over, give me four, maybe five frames of glow 

--- to black.

Dabb, am I..... am I going too fast for you?

[impostoradult]

Please don’t forget: Supernatural is a Camel

This is gonna be a long, rough thing to write. 

Where to start....

Stories Are Logical, Except When They’re Not

I keep seeing meta posts from Supernatural fans arguing Cas will/has to come back and Dean will/has to reciprocate his love somehow because it’s the only thing that makes sense! Followed by paragraphs of very coherent, insightful analysis drawing on tons of perceived foreshadowing (in episodes like “Fan Fiction”). It is all very logical, using substantial evidence and piecing it together in a very compelling way. Your college English teacher would be very proud. 

And I’m not here to take a firm stand on whether Cas will come back or Dean will somehow reciprocate. I can say, with all honesty, at this point I truly have no idea (about either). 

But I do want to take a firm stand on something else -- just because a plot line or an ending in a story makes sense, just because it draws on a ton of foreshadowing, just because it follows beautifully narratively and thematically from what came before it, does not mean that’s what’s going to happen. 

I wish we lived in a world where that was true. But as Game of Thrones taught us (and Lost, and HIMYM and Dexter, and, and...) stories can fail to live up to their promises. They can violate all of their emotional build up and all their internal logic. They do it all the time, in fact. Stories are faulty, human-made things, and TV most especially, by virtue of its production by committee, is particularly subject to mediocrity and misguided choices because of that. 

Which leads me to something I think we as a fandom need to reckon with before the finale airs. One of the glaring faults with the meta of the Chuck storyline is that it traffics in the fantasy that Supernatural (and it’s main characters) are now ‘free’ of the sinister Powers that Be intervening on their lives and making them shitty. And believe me, I actually think it was a stroke of genius making The Author the final big bad in many ways. But the truth is, while Chuck may be rendered powerless now within the story of Supernatural, the Powers that Be were still intervening on the finale of the TV show Supernatural. The Author within the narrative of Supernatural may be impotent, but the The Author(s) of Supernatural are still very much pulling the strings here. And in some ways, it’s even worse than I’m making it sound. 

Who (Actually) IS Chuck/God/The Author?

One thing a great many of us have failed to acknowledge or properly grapple with, in our understandable haste to revel in the Chuck-as-Bad-Author storyline, is the fact that TV shows have vast committees of authors and authorial influences. And often the badness and mediocrity of a TV show can (in part) be traced back to this collective and therefore heavily compromised nature of its production. TV shows are camels, and Supernatural may be the most camely camel of them all. 

So, who all is on this vast, camel-making committee? 

At one level, it is the group of writers who actually script the show, and do so (to some degree) collectively. But there is also the production company (Warner Bros.), the network (The CW), the constellation of production people who have significant authorial influence (directors, producers, editors, production designers, etc.), the actors, and yes, to an extent, the fandom/audience. We are part of this committee too, in the broadest sense. (We KNOW we’ve influenced the content of Supernatural) 

And even beyond THAT, there are non sentient forces also exercising power on Supernatural’s production and content. COVID-19, actor contracts/availability, the current and transitioning TV landscape (the 20+ episode season mandate of traditional broadcast TV, reduced ad revenue from traditional broadcast distribution, differing incentive structures in the streaming marketplace, global market distribution making up a larger share of entertainment profit margins in than in pervious eras, etc.). 

TV production is an exercise in epic compromise with all kinds of human and non-human/non-sentient powers and forces, exactly none of which does anyone unilaterally control. We are all in and part of this process, and we are all constantly compromising with one another as the process happens. There is no singular person or even singular committee pulling the strings here. No one (in particular) is Chuck, and everything is Chuck. 

I am Spartacus, and so are you, and so is Dabb and Berens and Bucklemming and Singer and Peter Roth and Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins and Mark Pedowitz and COVID-19  and, and, and, and, and...

Chuck as a singular Big Bad (Author) works in the context of narrative. But at the meta level, what makes “Chuck” such a bad author is not bad writing ideas (necessarily), but more the fact that everything happening is happening via contentious committee. Everyone is compromising with everyone, and the result is, well, this sometimes beautiful, sometimes lame, sometimes infuriating, sometimes genius, sometimes offensive, sometimes endearing, sometimes just plain fucking weird camel:

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

As much as I enjoy reveling in the idea that one could rob the conditions of production of their negative influence, that one could overcome the power of The Machine, you can’t. That’s literally impossible. TV shows just have conditions of production, always. There is absolutely NO getting outside of that. 

And the horror we all need to face is precisely the fact that there is no Deus ex Machina that one could kill, or cajole, or disarm, or come to an understanding with. There is no God in the Machine. There is no specific, singular, namable person or entity who is the ultimate arbiter here. There is just the massive constellation of interconnected forces pushing and pulling against each other until the compromise is manifested. 

I’m not trying to be pessimistic. Sometimes things made by committee, manage, against all odds, to turn out great. But that’s more the exception than the rule. (Why do you think the vast majority of TV is mediocre to bad?) 

All I’m trying to do is remind everyone that the meta Chuck is still alive and kicking and capable of ruining the story, or at least keeping it from being particularly satisfying, regardless of what makes sense narratively. 

Who knows, maybe Thursday night will bring us a unicorn, or at least a really nice horse. Just don’t be too surprised if what shows up is a camel. 

[according-to-the-laura]

StackedNatural Day 77: 10x09, 11x09

StackedNatural Masterpost: [x]

December 9, 2021

10x09: The Things We Left Behind

Written by: Andrew Dabb

Directed by: Guy Norman Bee

Original air date: December 9, 2014

Plot Synopsis:

When Castiel finds Jimmy's daughter in a group home, she persuades him to break her out; Crowley is faced with a big challenge.

Features:

Claire who is maybe my favourite character of all time, jailbreak with Claire, Cas is kind of a doof, Dean and Cas’ little date, Rowena was a horrible mother, Claire gets sold out, Dean slaughters.

My Thoughts:

I LOVE Claire and I love Kathryn Newton as Claire. She was a great casting choice. I love when Supernatural takes a moment to stop and look at the actual human cost of the characters’ choices and behaviours, even when they were the right thing to do. Like yeah, they would have lost the fight to stop the apocalypse without Cas, but Claire still lost her dad and that still matters. I find individual and personal consequences a lot more interesting than the global consequences because they’re so specific rather than generalized.

Bringing Claire back so many years later was such a great choice by the writers (Dabb can have some rights for writing this episode). Her and Cas’ relationship is so interesting, he’s so awkward but cares so much, and she’s so desperate for love but too afraid to trust any that’s offered to her.

The Crowley-Rowena dynamic rules as well. I love Mark Sheppard and Ruth Connell and they are so great onscreen together. Just really fun scenes.

This is also the episode with Dean and Cas’ little date! I don’t remember much from watching this episode live when it aired but I do remember a solid chunk of us losing our minds over that scene. They’re so comfortable with each other, and Cas can see through Dean’s front so easily, and they so obviously care about each other. I love it.

I know that the final scene is meant to show us Dean losing control of himself because of the Mark, and I know that makes sense to start with someone whose death can be justified in Dean’s mind so that the progression of the Mark makes sense, but it is awfully hard to feel bad for a bunch of dudes who were gonna rape Claire and then sell her into the sex trade. I mean obviously the ferocity of the killing and the insane amount of violence is crazy, but imo they deserved what they got.

Notable Lines:

“Now I realize that there is no righteous path. It’s just people trying to do their best in a world where it’s far too easy to do your worst.”

“So you’re having a midlife crisis.” “Well, I’m extremely old. I think I’m entitled.”

“Did I tell you the time she almost traded me for three pigs? THREE! I was an attractive child. I “You want to talk to me about wrong? You killed my dad. Is that wrong enough for you?”

“I used to pray to you, Castiel. Every night. I would beg you to bring him home safe.”

Laura’s (completely subjective) Episode Rating:9.7

IMdB Rating: 8.1

11x09: O Brother Where Art Thou?

Written by: Buckleming

Directed by: Robert Singer

Original air date: December 9, 2015

Plot Synopsis:

With Amara leaving a trail of bodies in her search for God, Sam enlists Crowley and Rowena to set up a meeting between him and Lucifer in the cage.

Features:

Amara is all grown up, watch a bitch call lightning, burning bushes, Amara’s search for God, Rowena reads the Book of the Damned, Sam talks to Lucifer, Dean talks to Amara, Sam gets trapped in the Cage.

My Thoughts:

I took a break between watching this ep and writing this blurb to eat dinner and when I got up to go back to the computer all I could think was “back to my grim work” so you could say that I didn’t care for this episode.

Listen, we all know I hate Buckleming as writers. We all know I hate Singer as a director. But I had never seen this episode before and somehow in my pea brain I convinced myself that this one might be good because it has a really high IMDb rating. And yet here we are.

Too many things that should be shrouded in mystery are made concrete. I hate that the cage is a literal fucking cage. Where are Michael and Adam? Why is hell just stone and torches and lightning?

Why is it that Sam has to talk to the devil right now immediately instead of waiting like an hour for Dean and then making literally any kind of plan for the encounter with his life’s biggest source of trauma? Why are we doing a Cage plot again when there’s already tons of lore in-show on how to open it? Why did we have to end the episode with a little rape threat?

The Amara-Dean “romance” is laughably unsexy to watch. The only cool thing in that scene was that Amara delivers a raw ass line and the knife shatters, and the knife shattering doesn’t even make sense because Dean isn’t an idiot and knows that it would never work so he shouldn’t have tried.

I look at the angels in this episode and just get really sad because they kind of gave up casting actors with any degree of gravitas. Remember Lazarus Rising? When angels caused earthquakes and burned the eyes out of demons and scared the shit out of everyone. And now they stand around in weird union meetings. Also, they’re supposed to be warriors and yet their combat strategy is “slowly advance one at a time so she has a lot of time to kill us”.

The one good thing about this episode was that I was watching with Lyall, by brother-in-law, who has seen a lot of Supernatural but not hyperfixated on it the way I have, and yet still gets worked up about bad writing. Some of his powerful takes:

“Daniel is a very powerful name and they gave it to THIS guy?”

“There’s a way to do this story that isn’t ‘everything we’ve already done but worse’, but it’s Buckleming so they can only regurgitate the work of better writers.”

“When Amara says she can’t be resisted that’s the metanarrative talking about heteronormativity.”

“Why did they try to cover three season’s worth of arcs in one episode?”

Wait, I lied, the best part of the episode is Amara talking about the bliss Dean feels when he’s near her and Jensen’s face is just completely blank.

Notable Lines:

“It’s incredible. How it endures, the propaganda. He was so threatened by me, fearful that I would make a more perfect creation than he.”

“I was the beginning and I will be the end. I will be all that there is.”

“It wasn’t God inside your head Sam. It was me.”

Laura’s (completely subjective) Episode Rating: 1.9

IMdB Rating: 9.2

In Conclusion: It’s been a while since I’ve felt justified in saying “the epic highs and lows of Stackednatural”.

<< Previous Day | Next Day >>

[remythologise]

I just finished the finale, and I have no friends who watch the show, so imma tell you if that's okay.

WHat in the eVerloVING fuCk.

All of this character development for noTHINg. They never get out of their unhealthy codependent relationship, end like they started, tossing away all the family they made along the way.

They hadn't even explicitly stated that Eileen was dead, and they made Sam marry some random lady??? Cas is in frickin heaven, and Dean doesn't even acknowledge it???

So basically the only dude who ever really cared about Cas was Jack. Great. That is so fantastic. Man, I did not know I be this unsatisfied.

Yeah, I just had this rant at my parents for lack of anyone to yell at right now. Had to explain wincest to my parents in 2020. Man.

I wish I could fix this. I honestly have a fic fully planned out to deal with this finale I wrote in a post-15x19 rage that I may or may not write up now (god knows I have a witcher wip sitting on hiatus that readers want me to update soon.) Literally it has a huge subheading ‘THEMES’ and every chapter section has notes on how the characters evolve and develop. Imagine being a writer with baseline competence. So writing and reading fic might be a good way of dealing with it, solidifying what you know of the characters. I’m going to try rewatching some old episodes of Supernatural to try and overwrite the finale in my brain, although I know seeing Cas and Sam and Dean and Jack knowing their endings in canon might be painful for some people.

But in general, as hard as it is, just remember that Sam and Dean and Cas and Jack aren’t what we saw in the finale or in 15.19. They live in the moments we saw in the Impala, in the Bunker, and on poorly lit motel carparks. They live in our fic, and our art, and our hearts. They live in the apocalypse of Season 4-5, and in the pizza nights of Season 12-14. They live at the point in 15.19 where Chuck died, and canon became meaningless to us. I’m not as upset as I was last week; I choose to interpret the best of canon despite the shitty episode execution; that they get a second shot in Heaven. I choose to believe Cas and Dean get together in Heaven in the finale, because that is what the narrative and emotional threads tell me happened. I choose to believe Jack can appear in heaven and hang out with them as a family. I choose to believe Sam was with Eileen on Earth, and lived happily. And most of all, I choose to believe that what we brought to these characters, what we knew to be true of them was more true and more important than what Singer, Dabb and Buckleming thought was true and important. So, I know it’s upsetting now but I think in time - I think in time we really can sort of gloss over the finale emotionally, and work with what we have. The good parts of Supernatural are still there, and the love we poured into this show and the characters isn’t gone either. 

As I said, I get how hard it is. Like, canon is canon, and nothing will make up for the betrayal of how great canon could have been. I’m just... going to try to live in the best parts of the show, and remember that love I have for the show is still so important even if the writers betrayed our trust. 

[koryuoftheriverflow]

I’m gonna compile a list of all the things in the episode that follow the narrative thread of the season (or seasons 7-15) or make no sense whatsoever that, imho, allow us to imagine (to know) that *this* was not supposed to happen. Yes, I’m wearing my clown wig and make up. If I have to believe that this finale was written by someone like say, Sera Gamble (Sam is the best, Dean is destined to live in his shadow and Cas is not in the picture), following Kripke’s initial plan, and imposed by the network onto Dabb and the other writers (whose *real* finale was 15.18 - and 15.19 which, bucklemmings’ usual problems aside, was really not that bad), just so that I can sleep tonight... Then so be it! - Montage from 15.19 with no actual meaningful moments from the past 15 seasons but a shitton of dream/fake episodes ??? - Single pillow - Mourning beer on the nightstand - Single lamp - Pizza box on the unoccupied side of the bed - Miracle - Sam’s jog in a place that reminds me a lot of his commercial in Changing Channels ??? - Dabb’s pies - That was Robert Singer on the background, laughing at Sam throwing a pie in Dean’s face, right? - The painting with the beach - Tongues ripped out so victims can’t speak - Hearts - That damn barn - Cas/Dean/Alastair vs Dean/Sam/chick - I had a hard time remembering that girl because why the hell is she even here? Why is Dead men’s blood so important right now? Pls explain ??? - The fact that it took me a while to understand that it was Dean the one impaled and not the vampire, because when they closed up on the metal thingy earlier I totally thought it was going to end up as it usually does in these cases ??? - You’re stronger than me ??? - It was supposed to end like this for me ??? (Hello free will?????) - It’s always being you and me (Hello family dont end in blood and it doesnt start there either???) - Hearts again - Agent Bon Jovi (No rest for the wicked) ??? - At least I made it to Heaven (this sounded so much like Dean just gave up because there was no one left and at least in, what he believed to be the old version of, Heaven he could relive good memories) - Ash’s monkey - It’s the Heaven you deserve (deserve - deserve - deserve) - El Sol - Cas helped (Dean’s smile, bless you Jensen) - KAZ2y5  - You got everything you could ever want, or need, or dream (the one thing I want - I need you - he sounds... dreamy) - The Roadhouse - The road (hello 8.07) - Sam’s son named Dean like this is the Epilogue only worse - And no Eileen - The bridge and Hey, Sammy and Stanford clothes (ok, we get it) - The farewell at the end - Jensen’s fucking face I cant ashjhshdjkahdk he’s dead inside - Cast and crew all together with no masks despite covid so where the hell are Cas and Eileen ??? - And cut!  Like, at least the fact that they broke the 4th wall lets me believe that this was the ending of the in-story show Supernatural and not the ending of *the story* and its characters.  Because this is a bros only ending and it was *not* what they’ve been building towards for months and years. And I couldn’t wrap my head around the fact that Jensen had to call lots of people and Eric bloody Kripke to have the ending explained to him, because from where I was watching the story unfold, it was the perfect arc for Dean (and Jensen knows Dean better than anyone). And that’s why I’m convinced this one is a pre-established ending. And Bobo and Dabb and all the rest in the writers room wrote 15.18 to be our ending, because they couldn’t write this one.  And yes, of course, no more sacrifice between the brothers is very good. But Dean dead? Sam with the white picket fence life?  This ending is so... ancient. It belongs to an era of Spn that is long gone. I honestly believe that the actors (maybe not Jared ‘cause he’s still under contract with the CW) and the writers will speak up about this. Some more than others, maybe. But I want the truth to come out. I want to know if they had to compromise to give us, albeit one-sided, canon Destiel. If they took us as far as they could, because they weren’t allowed to bring us to the right end.  And they tried to warn us: Misha and Cas’s sacrifice, Bobo and the unexpected, Dabb and his 30% and GoT finale. I thought he was trolling, but no... he was just warning us that, yeah, we were not gonna like it. How could we? But I want him to speak up, because he’s the one who’s gonna take the blame for this. I watched him write for this show for 12 years and I know he can do way better than this.  Jack as the soul bomb in 11.23, stopped, like Amara stopped, because of love.  The Empty being loud. The need to speak one’s truth. Free Will winning over the Author. Chuck’s ending with bros only and no Castiel being shit. We are real (from both Destiel and Saileen). The family they have built along the way. None of this was in the episode, but they have been writing with those themes in mind for years. So, no. I don’t understand. Call me delusional. Chuck knows I’ve been called that before, but on *that one thing* we were right. We were so fucking right. I genuinely think the writers are going to speak up, because their careers are at stake. Because *this* isn’t the way to end a story. And Misha, and Jensen. Jensen, I beg you to say something. Because this I understand now, why they were talking about 15.18 as if that episode was the finale. And why they didn’t say goodbye to Castiel, because no... his story isn’t over. So many other - well, I don’t want to say plot points, but certainly emotional points - were left unadressed, abandoned.  We still need answers.  If I can’t get them in text, I demand to have them from, yeah, word of God.  The thing that I’m mourning now is the possibily (and Spn has a history of missed chances, but we love it in spite of that) of going down in history as the tv show that did something game changing.  Still, I’m grateful for all the people, near and far, that have come into my life because of it. Family indeed don’t end with blood. @mittensmorgul @postmodernmulticoloredcloak @bluestar86 @drsilverfish @bakasara @rambleoncas @k-vichan @shirtlesssammy @lets-steal-an-archive I hope you don’t mind my tagging you lovely people (and there are many more), but I’ve followed you for so long, and I’ve read all your metas for years. They’ve kept me company for a decade. It’s been a wild ride and I just want to say, while asking for your opinion on the show one last time, THANK YOU. Supernatural was good, but it was especially lovely thanks to you all <3

[charlies-handmaiden-dean]

seething. knowing they literally started s15 IMMEDIATELY on the premise of dean dying. i don’t fucking know. i just feel like committing a crime. @ dabb singer and bucklemming. your writing days are numbered

[bunnymcbunnister]

SPN Season 15 Spoiler Sheet, update 11/18

Some updates including an ep 7 description, some guesses on the writer/director for 12, and some vague filming info for 11. I feel unsure about Misha’s status in eps 9-11, so if anyone knows differently, let me know. Might have to wait for episode descriptions on that. Also, I added in some guesses on airdates based on this post, but they are not for certain. And no photos for 6 yet, but they will likely post 30 seconds after I post this. 

DISCLAIMER: This is gathered info from various sources. This is not confirmed information. Stuff in this WILL be wrong. Don’t take this too seriously. This is for fun. 

General Info (oldest to newest)

There is hope to wrap up some Wayward Daughters storylines in the back half of the season

They are adding a whole extra day to filming to do the final scene. They will film the final scene last.  (Implies logistics- lots of returning people?)

Brad Bucker used the word “romance” when asked about Sam and Dean’s arcs. Did not specify who. 

In an interview, Kripe indicated that the series ending would have “peace” for Sam and Dean

Not much new at the TCA’s, but it was said it is “unlikely” Jeffery Dean Morgan will be back since his last appearance was such a good end note. There were some jokes about a Castiel spin off. Hell, I’d watch. 

There will be a special tribute ep, not clear if its one of the 20 or additional

Misha will be in 15 out of 20 episodes this season

According to Dabb, Sam and Dean are going to start to lose people who, in past seasons, we would’ve never lost — and lose them in a very real way. Our guys are going to realize there’s a certain finality, and some of the things they’ve relied on to get through the day — people, talents, things like that — they are no longer going to be able to roll out. And that’s going to throw them for a loop

Also according to Dabb, Jack is still in the empty and “he’s not coming back in the near future”

Cas’ deal with the Empty may come up later in the season. 

Dabb intimated that Chuck was inherently responsible for killing Mary when asked how the boys would respond to Jack. 

Adam Rose, who played Aaron Bass from the golem episode vauge-tweeted about working a show with two badass leads. Could be Supernatural, but I think the timing is off- he indicated he was filming late Friday night. 

Dabb compared Chuck and John Winchester, claiming that Dean would have to break free of “conditioning.” Also, for Jack “there have been cosmic forces fighting for his attention since he was in the womb — and that will continue. As much as this season is about Sam and Dean finding agency, it’s also about Castiel finding agency, and it’s about Jack finding agency. As always, death is never the end. It’s just part of the journey and that’s certainly true with Jack.” 

Per Variety: At the outset of the season, the “Supernatural” foursome of Dean, Sam, Castiel and Jack are split up, but Dabb notes they won’t be for long because “ultimately this is a found family, and they have deep emotional bonds” that make up the most important part of the show.

Sam’s wound from the equalizer gives his powers/an advantage of some kind (per TVGuide)

Jack will be a critical part of the ending of the show

The cage/Adam is looking like it will be coming up for midseason

Shaving People, Punting Things: https://youtu.be/azTwku2uosA

The shaving promo, punting things promo shows glimpses or Lucifer!Sam and MOC!Dean, as well as bearded Dean in tactical equipment. Recent interviews by Dabb seem to indicate that these are glimpses into other universes, a la Apocalypse World, and other endings from Sam and Dean. 

According to the MarySue and other interviews, Sam’s bullet hole will give him a connection and insight to god- like a tin can telephone string.

In the cage, Micheal and Adam have formed a working relationship (MarySue)

Dean and Amara’s connection will be explored

There will be a bunker themed episode (MarySue)

According to Misha (Cinablend) Dean and Cas will have discord up to ep 8- which is the mid-season finale. 

At a convention, Jake Abel was asked to share two lies about Adam’s return and a truth. The said 1. Adam is not upset about hell 2. Adam kills someone 3. Adam bring someone back. I am assuming its the bring someone back (Micheal?)

In one of his cookbook interviews, Misha used the word “we” several times when talking about the final scene of Supernatural. He said that would be the last scene they shoot. It seemed to imply that he was in the scene, but that could be open to interpretation. 

The finale will air on Monday May 18th. The show will move to Mondays when it comes back on March 16th. It’s gotta come back either than that and go on a mini break or something, because that is not enough Mondays. 

Episode 15x06

Title: Golden Time

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: OUT OF DIFFICULTIES GROW MIRACLES – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are visited by an old friend. Castiel (Misha Collins) investigates the disappearance of a local teen. John Showalter directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1506). Original Airdate 11/21/2019.

Written by: Meredith Glynn

Director: Showalter

Filming Dates:  9/16-9/25

Airdate: 11/21

Photos: https://ew.com/tv/supernatural-season-15-episodic-photos/

Promo: https://youtu.be/xAD_k5l1AdA

Sneak Peak:

Castiel? Yes Jack? No

Guest stars: 

Other Spoilers/info:

Misha tweeted from set in costume, so Cas. 

Misha also tweeted a pic in blood spatter with two bullet holes in his shirt

At least Jensen and Jared filmed in Rowena’s apartment 

This will be a witch episode- Witches will invade Rowena’s apartment looking for books. They are very powerful. Dean gets thrown into a wall and Sam uses magic to stop them (from TVGuide)

Looks like Eileen in the promo!

 Episode 15x07

Title: Last Call

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: CLOSING TIME – Dean (Jensen Ackles) goes off on his own to take on a case. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) has an idea of how he can help Sam (Jared Padalecki) track down God. Amyn Kaderali directed the episode written by Jeremy Adams (#1507). Original Airdate 12/5/2019.

Written by: Jeremy Adams

Director: Amyn Kaderali

Filming Dates:  9/26- 10/7

Airdate: Dec 5th

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? Yes Jack ? 

Guest stars: 

Other Spoilers/info :

Misha posted from set in new shoes- very shiny with well tailored pants. (The next day he posted in full Cas costume, so are the shoes a one off? Another outfit with new shoes?). 

Misha and Jensen made a video from set. I feel like if Jared was around he would have been in it since it was about money raised?  Maybe a Dean Cas scene?

There will be a battle scene in this that Jensen mentioned he was looking forward to and we would enjoy. 

After NJ Con, it appeared that Jensen returned to work, Jared and Misha stayed an extra day and then Misha went home. Misha only did about 2 days of filming. 

Jensen and Christian filmed at a bar called Swazey’s. This was the fight scene Jensen was referring to. 

At some point, Sam might be shirtless or we can see part of his chest- Jared had his anti-possession tattoo at the weekend convention.

Per TVGuide, Leo and Dean will have a wild night out in an effort for Dean to recapture his mojo. Dean will become the lead of a band called Dean and the Impalas, which is made up of Supernatural crew. 

Osric Chau popped over to set, but he is filming on Legends of Tomorrow in the same studio. Sebastin Roche also indicated he would come by, he is filming on Batgirl. Unfortunately, neither Kevin or Balthazar will appear in this one. 

 Episode 15x08

Title: Our Father Who Aren’t in Heaven

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: 

Written by: Buckleming

Director: Speight

Filming Dates:  10/8- 10/18 (no filming 10/14 for Canadian Thanksgiving)

Airdate: 12/12 (?)

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? yes Jack ? 

Guest stars: Jake Abel, Shoshannah Stern

Other Spoilers/info:

Jake Abel posted a script with the caption “hell hath no fury like a brother scorned”

Shoshannah Stern was spotted on set- Eileen!

This will be the midseason finale

At BurCon, Misha mentioned Dean is still acting like “a dick” in the ep they were filming- which is this one. 

 Episode 15x09

Title: 

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: 

Written by: Berens

Director: Singer

Filming Dates:  10/21-10/30

Airdate: 1/16?? 

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? I can’t tell but maybe not Jack ? maybe

Guest stars: Rob Benedict, Kim Rhodes, Jim Beaver

Other Spoilers/info:

Midseason premier episode

Misha was at home for the first week of filming, and I think the second. I don’t think he is in this. 

Alex and Rob were hanging out- Chuck and JACK?

Kim Rhodes posted in front of the SPN set and with her trailer- Jody looks very likely. She also had dyed hair and she has been rockin the grey for the past few Jody eps. Maybe a flashback/AU?

Jim Beaver posted from set- Bobby!

Jensen shared that in this episode, Dean will pray to Cas to “confess” why he has been treating Cas the way he has. Misha confirmed this in another interview and said tears would be shed- not sure who is doing the crying (besides me). 

Episode 15x10

Title: 

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: 

Written by: Dabb

Director: Showalter

Filming Dates:  10/31- 11/12 (No filming for Veterans/Armistice Day)

Airdate: 1/23 ??

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? Jack ? 

Guest stars: 

Other Spoilers/info :

Misha texted some local fans from set in costume about an WA election, but after the convention was promoting his cookbook all over the place. I think he filmed 2 days, max. 

The story will be about Sam and Dean as heroes from the good and bad side (from MarySue)

At DCCon, Jensen shared that  this a bit of a wacky episode- Sam and Dean lose their abilities to fight, Dean gets cavities and Sam gets a cold. Jensen later seemed to refer to this ep when talking to TVGuide- mentioning the Impala will get a flat. 

Episode 15x11

Title: 

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: 

Written by: Davy Perez AND Meredith Glynn 

Director: Beeson

Filming Dates:  11/13-11/22 

Airdate: 1/30??

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? Jack ? 

Guest stars: 

Other Spoilers/info:

Misha and Jensen made a video for a fan that I think was filmed during the first day of shooting? Not for sure. So maybe Cas?? I’d love the king of social media to post publicly in costume to know for sure. 

Megan Fitzgerald (writer/showrunner’s assistant) and Emma Peterson (production office) were very excited about something in the dailies for this ep. 

They filmed at a church and a park in Surry according to YRShoots. 

 Episode 15x12

Title: 

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS: 

Written by: Bobo AND Glynn

Director: Speight

Filming Dates:  

Airdate:  2/26??

Photos: 

Promo:

Sneak Peak:

Castiel ? Jack ? 

Guest stars: 

Other Spoilers/info:

[justanearth-boundmisfit]

bluephoenixrises replied to your post: Translation: a BIG mess, that erases tons of story...

So instead of getting a season building towards endgames that have supposedly been building for 14 seasons, we instead get to watch everyone start over in their character arcs? It’s almost like the writers really didn’t have any ideas for season 15 so they just decided to start over.

Imo, there never was an endgame in Dabb’s era. The constant erasure of story lines and myth arcs were always his signature. Not to mention the lack of continuity. It didn’t help matters that it seemed that everybody was writing their own story on separate rooms, bucklemming with their pet project Lucy, Bobo with his baiting ways, and some like Yockey, trying to make the effort to make something coherent out of all the mess. As a showrunner Dabb should’ve put his foot down and organize all the different egos playing a part, even his own and Singer’s. Never happened. 

That’s why, again imo, we arrive at the last season when they are pulling the “it was a dream” trope or something similar (I have talked about this trope and more in some of my rants). It’s the only way they have to say: “look the only thing important here it’s not what came before, but this last season, forget about anything and everything, because it maybe was a lie!” 

They never had a clear path: the alt universe, the alt. people, michael, lucy, Jack, Mary, and even Cas with the empty, they all had background stories that didn’t went really anywhere (well we still have the possibility of Cas going out to the empty lbh it’s an easy way to take him off the equation to have the final bros fest, but that is for another rant). 

That the main characters are going to doubt 14 years of core story line, is a mess that spn doesn’t have the time to untangle in its last season. Of course this kind of writing is going to lead to poor pacing, rushed story lines and loose ends. That’s how I have been seeing it since Dabb took over and that’s one of the many reasons why I have been so critical with his work.

But beyond my annoyance with spn, I have to admit that it’s sad af that a show with SO much potential ends in such a low note, with people at the helm that never really respected what came before they arrived. 

Sorry it got long. 

[naruhearts]

OKAY SO I've just spent the best part of an hour scrolling through your blog and reading a bunch of your destiel meta and I HAD to message you... I was one of the many people who STRONGLY believed destiel had a chance of being canon after season 8 (more like season gr8 am i right), but throughout the years I slowly lost all hope. However, S14 has made me 110% invested in the show again and YOUR META IS GIVING ME HOPE FOR DESTIEL, which is TERRIFYING. Your writing is wonderful and I'm STRESSED.

Got back from Washington late last night!

Oh my gosh @alovelikecas, your message really made my day and I’m SO glad you enjoy my meta xox (even when most of my meta looks like, to me, sloppy-ass writing, haha! I’ll probably make an end-season meta post after 14x20 — if I have the time — that touches upon SPN’s current and repeating themes since Season New Beginnings S12/Dabb Era, not to mention I have, like, some more unfinished meta in my drafts >.>)

Yeah I mean, I didn’t join Destiel land until Summer 2016, and before that, I was late to the Season 11 party, so I basically had no narrative context for anything, and I’ll copy-paste what I said here: 

Looking back, one significant thing I recall? S11 gave me a sense of Destiel’s true narrative validity (as not a ‘fanon’ ship but organically developed in the canon) when I perceived it as a season that was ‘missing something’. Keep in mind I had no idea about Destiel yet while watching S11 at the time.

I was literally asking myself — repeatedly — why Dean/Amara seemed to contain odd narrative holes, considering A. Dean explicitly said that the non-consensual attraction he felt for Amara was NOT love and “it scares him”, B. Amara told Dean that ‘something stops you - keeps you from having it all’, C. Djinn!Amara stated that she can: ‘feel the love [Dean] feels, except it’s cloaked in shame,’ and D. Mildred’s iconic ‘You’re pining for someone’ —> which did not logically correlate with A and C, meaning: since Dean doesn’t freely love Amara and thus isn’t possibly pining for her — with female love interests as currently non-existent (I remember crossing off the dead/gone girls on a piece of paper lol) — who the hell was he pining for, then?

Originally posted by elizabethrobertajones

Obviously, without writing long-ass paragraphs of meta about it again in this post, S11 made sense as soon as I watched it within the Destiel context (especially after I read up on some grandiose pieces of Destiel meta (@charlie-minion was the very first person who inspired me to write meta; I followed her once I joined the fandom Oh my god, here we go, holy crap this subtext – I’m invested in this godforsaken ship because they’re in love with each other and I’m not getting off any time soon. The rest is history.

I’m aware that I do come off as positive (and I’m still Destiel-positive; whatever happens in 14x20 this week may or may not change that), but I hope you don’t mind if I use your lovely ask as an additional opportunity to clarify my meta standpoint: no one’s saying Destiel WILL become text. 

The general Destiel meta community (all subfactions: Destiel-positive, -negative, -neutral, and in-between) is not the Most Holy Canon Word, and we aren’t SPN writers, and again, we can’t actually speak to the veracity of Destiel as guaranteed-gonna-go-textual, but we — a diverse pool of critical thinkers from all walks of life: particularly those who have some degree of experience in literary academia/English literature studies (fun fact: I was actually pursuing a Minor’s in English until I changed my mind - my first love’s Health Science/Biology, which I stuck with, but here I am doing lit-crit analysis on the side *wink*) — can speak to the veracity of Destiel as a real, palpable, and ever-substantial long-running romance narrative aka the love story between Dean and Cas IS THERE. I see it. We all see it. We didn’t pluck it out of the random ether one day. It naturally evolved across the show’s overarching narrative like some vast spiderweb, linked together by numerous character arc amalgamations of Dean Winchester and Castiel as separate individuals who were then brought together — who brought themselves together, by the sheer force of free will and choice — and are now inherent parts of the other’s story (and respective character progression).

I say this too many times to count: the entire point of writing meta? Personally, it enables me to appreciate the literary gorgeousness of Dean and Cas’ relationship as, first and foremost, a tentative alliance offset by the very moment Cas raised Dean from perdition (it’s a poetic beginning). Their alliance then inevitably proliferated into a rocky — at times, necessarily turbulent — friendship, then a deep profound bond…one that crossed platonic boundaries since S7/8 and is, ultimately, indelibly rooted in romance. Together, Dean and Cas build up each other’s strengths, complement each other’s flaws, and narratively motivate the other to self-introspect — to become the best version of themselves that they were always meant to be: self-actualized entities who let go of their painful, horrifying, psychologically/emotionally destitute pasts.

These above reasons and more are why I think Destiel belongs right up there on the shelf of Ye Olde Classics, similar to epics by John Milton, Shakespearian tragic dramas, Homeric characteristic cruxes, and the great Odyssey journey: a legendary journey, fraught with circumstance, that finally ended with Odysseus (now an enlightened man) returning to Penelope, the love of his life.

Channeling the scope of Homer’s Odyssey, Destiel is an incredible storytelling feat of obstacles, both internal and external, romance tropes, mirroring, foreshadowing, and visual cadence/emotion, enhancing SPN’s already character-driven main plot in that Dean and Cas try to make it back to one another; like Penelope, their love holds true despite everything. If Destiel were an M/F couple, we all know their love story would be absolutely undeniable to the GA.

I do understand the bitterness S14’s fostered in some viewers, though. I do understand that Dean and Cas seem distant (and yeah, it’s a noticeable difference compared to S12/S13), but I believe the Destiel subtext is still heavy and holds steady.

Right now, at this point, there remains multiple personal issues for the characters to solve, you know? Dean and Cas aren’t talking properly; their love languages stay mistranslated, although we’re persistently shown that they still understand each other on a certain level that no one else can, and the visual narrative keeps framing them as on-the-nose solid counterparts: a domestic-spousal romantic unit independent of Sam.

Originally posted by incatastrophicmind

They want to be there for the other. They need to quash the final remnants of their respective internal loathing (Dean’s self-worthiness, Cas’ self-expendability) before they’re able to give the other 100% of their time, efforts, attention, and love (as flawed and complicated but compellingly beautiful as it can possibly be). During the times Dean and Cas do try to talk shit out, extraneous issues continue to get between them.

As other friends/meta pals discussed with me, S14 is like S10 in that it’s confusing the cast/audiences. And exactly: S8, besides S11/S12/early S13, also belongs in the close-to-canon serious Destiel narrative transition! I can discuss the showrunning/writer problem of SBL (Singer + Bucklemming; @occamshipper hits the nail on the head) that tugs subtext – especially subtext linked to Destiel – back and forth, sometimes in the weirdest nonsensical ways, but I won’t go too far into it here. I agree, however, with the recent idea that Jensen does seem a bit confused as to where he should bring Dean emotionally this season (don’t get me wrong, I do NOT believe Dean is OOC; OOC is a completely different concept vs expected character behaviour). And if Dean’s consistently romance-coded past interactions with Cas are any indication, Jensen would also — in the same vein as all of us — want Dean and Cas to start getting their shit together. Long-running fictional characters like Dean and Cas, conceived over 10 years, are so well-written to the point where you, the author, can predict what they’ll do even if you just plop both of them inside a room and give them no direction, and I personally feel that nowadays Jensen is prevented from achieving Dean’s further internal growth/unsure how to act in the moment because of some dumb SBL scripts saying one thing while his character’s heart says another. Wank aside—

Season 15 should hopefully convey a much more logical subtextual perspective e.g. unbelievably amazingly cohesive Season Destiel 11 that aired after choppy S10. Not all hope is lost!! I also want to clarify that I personally LOVED Season 14 in general. It’s been mostly Emotion-centric constant, with Yockey, Berens, Perez, and Dabb usually making my top-rank SPN writer list.

Currently the narrative’s still allowing pretty significant (imho) wiggle room for the lovers to fracture apart and get back together, where their miscommunication comes to a dramatic head. We just saw Dean and Cas argue over Jack’s well-being in 14x18 and 19. Dean — besides putting Cas at the top of his You’re-Dead-to-Me-Because-You-Lied-but-I-Still-Love-You-Goddammit hitlist (for clear spousal-coded reasons) and taking Cas’ actions to heart (he’s the person he trusted the most who lied to him) — no doubt blamed himself for what happened, and Sam was, like I said, the mouthpiece of truth. TFW were all culpable. They all failed Jack in some way, shape, or form.

I’m not expecting anything for 14x20, but I’m nervous either way! Thanks for sticking with my long answer

[go-diane-winchester]

Why destiel shippers should not speak about destiel endgame?

@the-winchesters-ruined-my-life asked the following question.

Thank you for the ask.  A short while back, my prim and proper side, would have responded diplomatically that its a merely ship, an artistic platform, and therefore does not warrant any hate from most level headed people.  However, I have to realize that even art activates the tolerance threshold.  I used to read destiel slash out of curiosity.  There are many more like me who dipped their toes in the destiel cesspool, only to recoil in disgust when they realized that it was probably going to give them gangrene.  Destiel was a sweet little ship, once upon a time, until things dramatically changed for the worst.  Most people who ship destiel are extreme by design because that is how the meta writers designed their thinking.  Non heller fans contradict each other.  I don't see that with hellers.  Some upper echelon hellers says something and these fans just accept it without question.  Take for example, the following post, recently penned by @anti-anti-destiel, lamenting the impending end of SPN.

The first flaw, is the OP's name.  They are glitching the tags with a name like this.  Everything and everyone has an anti tag.  What makes destiel so special that it must never have an anti tag?  That is manipulative and delusional because nothing will disappear just because you wished it away.  People that are going to despise destiel are growing, whether OP sticks her head in the stand or not.   

Anyway, here is the post, which I edited where necessary and italicized.  My responses are in bold. 

....Season 15 will be the last, with another 20 episodes.

There has been talk about queerbaiting in the past, and whether or not SPN will go down in history as a show with a slow-burn queer romance, or whether it will be forever known as the most queerbaiting show in existence.

This is why non-destiel fans get infuriated.  If there are any ''good'' destiel fans out there, why don't they tell this entitled princess to stop ruining the reputation of a show that has genuinely made people happy?  SPNFamily is very ironic when you want to tear apart a show that gave made you smile for 14 seasons.  This alone makes me wonder if there are any ''good'' destiel shippers out there.  The other hot topic is that of queer baiting.  Notice how queer baiting is NOT up for debate.  I have seen the master list of ''proof'' that SPN is queer baiting.  The parallels, metaphors and prop analysis are extremely insulting to adult human intellect.  Performing Dean is perhaps the most biphobic concept I have ever come across.  There is a reason these meta writers don't want their head canon's discussed because they know that people with logic with wipe the floor with them.  I can almost picture Jensen bursting into laughter if he ever read that master list.  It is that nonsensical.  The meta writers claim they are being queer baited, and everyone believes it.  Nobody questions the writers.  Why? 

All the cards will be on the table in the writers’ room.

Dabb is destiel friendly.

Bobo is destiel friendly.

Davy is destiel friendly.

Steve is destiel friendly.

Meredith is destiel friendly. 

Buckner and Ross-leming are ???

Singer is ???

When a meta writer writes something like this, how come low level destielers don't ever question her?  Why not ask her:  if Dabb and gang are destiel friendly, then why is it that Cas didn't even get invited to 300th episode family dinner party?  They practically forgot about him.  BuckLeming are NOT destiel friendly, because Leming [along with Misha] claimed that an episode with a turning point was coming up.  Turns out there was no turning point.  Leming and Misha were just making a mockery out of the destiel fans.  Why is it that Leming was called out for that lie and NOT Misha? 

And why is it that the most important people in this equation are always left out?  Both Jensen and Jared have said time and again, that destiel is not part of SPN canon.  How come they get left out?  Do you think their opinion doesn't matter?  And if it doesn't, then why is that?  I would really like to know. 

Other numerous cast and crew are destiel friendly. And before someone starts, regardless of previous statements, Jensen is more friendly to the idea than you may think.

Why don't any of the destielers ask this meta writer HOW she knows that Jensen is friendly to destiel?  One fool told me that Jensen told her during a photo op that he was OK with destiel.  But yet he says on stage that destiel doesn't exist.  Now, why would he do that?  What makes these idiots think that Jensen is two-faced or spineless.  This meta writer said it, and everyone believed it.  Not a single person decided to cross-examine her regarding her claims.  Jensen doesn't like destiel.  He destroyed the only panel he shares with Misha.  I think getting death threats from hellers did it.  I don't blame him. 

Our main barrier is convincing Pedowitz and the Network Powers that be that it should happen.  Fandom has campaigned, tulpa’d, prayed, begged, etc. We will know by May, 2020, what the decision will be.

So she wants to rally a bunch of delinquents to annoy and aggravate TPTB.  And what fandom is she talking about.  There are many fans who HATE destiel, because of Jensen's death threats, as well as arson, kidnapping and vandalism threats.  Ordinary fans of SPN are fed up of destiel meta writers speaking up for every one of us.  The destiel fans are only a subsection of the overall fan base.  We would prefer if they didn't speak for us all.  Pedowitz has already acknowledged only J2 as the leads and TPTB has told them that the show will go for as long as they want.  So TPTB are acknowledging the leads opinions.  Neither of the actors are going to say yes to destiel. 

We have seen the hints in Dabb’s era, where it could go. He is ON BOARD, people. Whether you want to believe it or not. It’s so close to being fully textual canon. 

What did she see in the Dabb era?  Cas admiring Dean's looks?  No, he admired Sam's looks.  Dean telling Cas he loved him?  No, he said that to Sam.  Dabb is giving every other pairing its day in the sun, but not destiel.  Why is that?  I think it has something to do with the reputation destroying queer baiting accusation.  This person is fooling you in order to stay relevant.  I can tell you now, there are personal stakes involved in shipping.  In order to stay popular and relevant, meta writers will spin mile long yarns.  Meta writers are like a step up from a slash fic writer.  In a weird way, they are revered without any merit or qualification.  That is how gullible the destiel fan base is.  They never probe a claim.  And they never just enjoy their ship.  Everything has to be about canon destiel, ship wars [their latest victim is sastiel] and they never acknowledge criminal threats.  Being loyal to them means that you are popular with the bad crowd.  Let that sink in. 

So while some may be preparing for the eventual let-down, it is completely acceptable to keep the faith. If it doesn’t happen, it won’t be the fault of writers, cast, or crew.

Oh, no it will be the fault of the meta writers, like this joker, and Misha Collins.  Misha has actively queer baited his fans for ten years.  Its funny how Jensen is the bad guy for saying that destiel doesn't exist, but Misha is such a kidder if he says anything destiel and even cockles friendly.  Misha Collins is the only person on the cast, crew and writers who actively and vocally pushed destiel consistently for ten years.  So much so that he ignored sastiel.  He changed that at Nashcon for reasons unknown.  If you want to lash out at anyone for destiel not being canon, please go ahead and lash out at Misha.  The only one who gave you any hope was Misha. 

In conclusion:  I have only met one destiel shipper [receipt on my blog], who acknowledged that destiel shippers were becoming ghastly and that Misha was egging on the troublemakers.  She admitted that she didn't approve of his behavior.  Other than her, I have not come across another.  Other than this one person, nobody else deserves my empathy.  When SPN ends without destiel being canon, prepare for the hellers being mocked by all and sundry, due to all the many enemies they earned for the threats, attacks on J2 and the vandalism.  No one will feel sorry for them, because they ruined this fandom.  Remember, Destiel is not a religion.  Loving and believing it is not a prerequisite for being an SPN fan. 

Excuse the typos. 

[orionsangel86]

Hi, could you explain how the writing for Supernatural works? Do the writers like Yockey, Perez etc. get directions about the general plot and then write their own version? I've always wondered it and I'm ignorant about this kind of stuff. Thank you!

Hi! So any information I provide is based on the small fragments of info I have been told or read about over the years, I am literally scrambling it all together from my memory as well so I can’t guarantee any accuracy to anything I say. 

My understanding is that the showrunner will pitch the general story direction, so that the writers have a basic idea of where the plot of the season is going. Then the writers will each pitch episode ideas and these will be discussed with the showrunner. Anything that would have major plot implications or change the direction of the season would be more heavily discussed with the showrunner, and sometimes certain episodes points may have started off as one offs but end up getting picked up for a bigger mytharc plot point (for example 12x12 and the Princes of Hell).

For example I doubt very much that Steve Yokey would have included the whole “Jack kills Michael and cures his whole grace issue” in his original MOTW pitch about a Gorgon, but its likely that he would have discussed it with Dabb and they both decided to take that route at the end there.

My guess is (and this is a total guess but it is how I would expect things to be done because it seems most logical to me) is that the showrunner plots out a very rough draft of key story points they want to hit throughout the season. This main story probably received a lot of influence from other higher level people (like Singer and *sigh* Bucklemming) and then as the writers map out the season long story, they can decide what main story elements they want to include in each of their episodes. 

I get the impression that the newer writing team works quite closely together, as their episodes tend to compliment each other really well. Yokey, Perez and Glynn have this flow in their episodes that always seems to be quite elegant to me. Bobo has been focusing a lot of his time lately on the Wayward ladies, and Bucklemming are just... well, Bucklemming. 

I’m sure there are sources out there for this kind of thing where the SPN writers past and present have actually given interviews about this stuff, but I am too lazy to go searching for them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[thedogsled]

14x01 et tu, Beyonce?

No immediate ep review from me, because honestly there were things I liked but it’s going to take another viewing or two to get over my general disappointment and pull them out of the text. Nevermind, this turned into an ep review.

Follow the read more for the whole minirant.

The way I see it is this: they want to take the episode in an unexpected way (and possibly mirror season 6, like @naruhearts was saying the other day), so we are back to souped up supermonsters as a plotline, and, look, between the Leviathan and the whole Jefferson Starships thing I don’t know how I feel about that yet. 

But most of all I feel like in order to accomplish some of the things they laid out in this episode, they just threw a whole lot of preexisting canon out, and when shows do that, they’re conceiving that the finished product outweighs the need to stick to canon. i.e. Wouldn’t it be SO COOL if we brought Gabriel back, we’ve never brought him back before. Well okay, how will we come up with a way to bring him back without altering canon too much. Well okay, the fans had this awesome theory, we could do something with that. FINE.

The issue comes here I think in that they wanted to do these things specifically: set up the vampire thing, get Jo working with TFW somehow, show how deep in a hole Cas is (fail btw), have Sam do his sparkly moment with the ‘There will be no King of Hell’, that sort of stuff. Oh. And give Mark P something to do because FANS LOVE HIM. Or something.

But none of those things were worth it. (Maybe Sam.)

None of those things were worth destroying established canon to achieve. None of those things were worth making characters look stupid to achieve.

Angel theories broken: Angels can see demons true faces The vessel once destroyed allows the dead soul inside to go to its final destination. Lucifer’s vessel isn’t a real vessel it’s a mock up (already contrived). Archangels (and angels) burn out the people they possess. Angel blades kill the host as well as the angel. (And don’t even get me started on the archangel blade existing in the first place). Cas just don’t got the juice any more. Ever. He talks the talk, but then he what the fucks the rest of it. Oh and everyone has a pair of angel restraining cuffs, because WHEN DID THOSE HAPPEN? Like, I literally can’t remember when angel restraining cuffs became a thing. They just started happening nbd. But demons have them.

So just. If one of those things had happened to move the plot along, fine. But all of them? ALL of them? And Michael’s WEIRD motivational alignment? Like. I am giving it a break because I KNOW it has to pick up from where season 13 left off and that was an unenviable starting point, but I just.

Other things that were frustrating: why were there odd sound effects and directing choices in the fight scene? Why was Cas such a wet blanket?Kip the demon--he was rubbish. Sam already knew he didn’t have to fight him, that his demon followers would chicken out, it was just set up that way. Why did we see an angel from an angel’s POV for the first time ever? Why was Cas such a wet blanket? Why can’t people use their words, like seriously Cas, anyone with half a brain knows Jack is going to do something stupid since you had to get out the door before you ran out of time on screen. What the fuck, Cas? What the fuck?

No but. I’m sure I’m going to like bits of it when I watch again. The finale wasn’t so bad watching it again before the new ep showed. (sound of glass breaking) and I will let this one settle down a little. I just wish there wasn’t so much I’m mad at. Castiel’s issues and Nick would be HUGE all on their own, they’ve bad, and contrived just because they a) don’t know how to keep Cas from being OP without literally tying him down and b) have to keep Mark around because of audience feedback (how about the sound of me grinding my fucking teeth, CW?) But it’s the lore problems, ultimately, that really have me down.

The destruction of canon for the sake of a contrived plot is BAD SHOWWRITING especially with a series like this where the whole universe relies on the established lore. Lore IS the show, and to forget that in order to take the plot in an “unexpected” direction does a huge disservice to fans, and makes you look like an awful writer. I would rather move in a predictable direction and stay true to canon than change everything and take you somewhere you don’t want to know.

It’s like that game that Joey is going to be the host of in Friends, Bamboozled, except that the nonsensical rules of the game do actually make sense when you get to the bottom of it. There’s no sense to be made here. It just gets more and more tossed around like an old chew toy until the original lore is pointless and sticking to it makes no sense so why bother, right?

But lore is the show. Lore is why ghosts hate iron and demons get burned by holy water and angels need to be killed with angel blades. Lore is the rules by which everything else makes sense, and a good writer can tell a good story within those rules. It’s not like it’s a mystery or a challenge, that’s precisely what a lot of us as fanfiction writers DO. All the time! So is it so much to ask from the people who actually make the show? I don’t think so. And I resent someone changing the rules on me constantly just so they can stroke Mark P’s ego, or bring back a character who they’re only going to kill again in two episodes anyway. It’s tiring. I’m tired of it. And shame on you, Dabb, for playing the Bucklemming game here. You’re the one who should be holding the ship together, not conspiring to help it spin further apart!

Most of all, though, starting out on this footing is an issue, because it implies that all bets are off, and the writers (and showrunner, remember), will do whatever they want to tell the story they want to tell, and rules of the universe be damned. We’re already likely to get 1/4 of the eps this season written by BL, isn’t that enough destructive power? It doesn’t fill me with a lot of hope that things will shape up, and overall, it was a bad start for me.

Maybe I’ll feel different about it tomorrow. This is usually a positive blog (unless Bob Singer wrote it), so... Don’t give up on me just yet. I’m feeling a bit bruised and battered for now, though.

[seenashwrite]

14.08 Round-Up

NOW THAT IS HOW YOU START AN EPISODE. Boom, baby.

(But, he ain't dead, we know he ain't dead, everybody pump your bonfire brakes.)

Mary doesn't answer, quelle shock.

You know, I appreciate it, but lumberjackin' now that the beard's retired? Hmmmph.

I... I agree with getting knee-walkin' drunk, I just... there's... there's a.... y'all got a corpse down yonder... this song is not what I would've chosen.

I dig the Overlook Hotel: Version Goo action. Hey somebody point me to the gifs of the dollar store Terminator rise from last week, will ya?

IT'S YA GIRL - I've made clear my love for Lily Sunder. I also love Alicia Witt. I happen to like this character actress, too, though. So. Okay. All right.

.

.

AND OUR EXPOSITION ANVIL WINNER IS DEAN! Thank you, writers. The "Then" covered it. The Kevin/Donatello part was necessary but chasing that first dog... woof.

Jesus wept, if you have to get this convoluted with your plot in order to fix past plot, and not-in-the-distant-past plot, I mean in-the-immediate-past plot, then YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT PLOT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not without a streamlined plan. And this ain't streamlined.

Anubis [rolls eyes] Oh, fucking fine.

"Sorry long story" ---- Cas I love you, and hard. Lack of exposition makes me tingly in my no-no places. This almost makes up for the anvil.

Hello Kelly actress who is awesome and was underused but I'm told is being used quite well on that other show! Not gonna lie - I love that they're getting to meet, I do. Kelly's a good mom.

That's Leviathan goo, yo. And if it's not.... do they even canon? I get it's probs Empty goo. Still. That there's Leviathan goo.

SHE'S POSSESSED WHY IS SHE NOT FRIED IF YA BOY'S OVER THERE FRIED... Cas you trusting dumbass... I mean, if she ain’t possessed, then oh writers #bless 

Shut up, Naomi... "I thought you were old friends, nyah meh myah neeeeeuuuhhh"

Stop cutting your palms, TV people. Forearms.

That's excellent - that we decide. I dig it. Well played.

.

.

Spoke too soon - CONFETTI ANVILS FOR CAS! Naomi just said all this - was there not a smoother way to have this accomplished without it being back-to-back? A “Come on, I know why you’re here and where Jack is, I’ll explain when we get there” and then, y’know, explain it to all parties right then?

SHE'S YOUR “SHADOW” YA DUMBFUCKS [moments later] ::sigh::

Hey, why aren't we calling it The Entity anymore? That has a better, more ominous ring to it than "The Shadow". I mean, that's a literary term for such a character. So it's... redundant. And something a kid would call a spooky character, besides.

Man, I *really* like this actress, she has got the insidious psychopath thing doooooooown, holy moses, I'm a fan. I'm a big fan. They won't let her live, so we'll never see her again, which is a shame because-----HOLY SHIT THEY DIDN'T KILL HER.  I am legit grinning from ear-to-ear. They'll squander her. **whispers** Please don't squander her.

Wait, what deal did Cas make? That The Entity will get him sooner than planned? I missed it somehow. I think there was a little doggy drama at this point.

Aaaaaand of course they killed Lily. But I freaking love this. I kinda love Anubis now. I like the actor for sure.

"Say hello to your daughter for me" --- I honestly got tearful, be still my black heart.

What the shit is up with Naomi? How does she manage to keep on keepin' on? And Michael's in Dean's ascending colon, we've covered this, wherever Naomi - the supes trustworthy and totally successful at the shit she’s always tried to do [snort] Naomi - thinks he is, he’s not.

N-No.... no, Kaia found you. But semantics, shemantics.

Good ep.

[moments pass]

GARTH!

.

To wrap up, we need to talk writing for a second, feel free to tap out if you don't care.

But we gotta talk about this, because they're gonna have a major Chekov's Gun situation, here, if they don't do what I'm about to say:

The only way this could cohesively play out now------

and I ain't saying it will, because of Dabb and Singer and Buckleming, The Backwoods Brain Trust

------is that the Entity is the ace in the hole for defeating Michael.

Why, Nash? -- Glad you asked.

For those unfamiliar, Chekov said (and I'm paraphrasing) that if you make a point to describe a gun hanging on the wall in the room in the first chunk of your story, you must bring it up again, and it better be for a good reason, otherwise why the fuck did you bring it up in the first place?

So we must ask ourselves: What was the point of Jack losing his grace to Luci? I would submit so Lucifer wasn't really dead. Is that accurate? Remains to be seen. But for sure we now know that at least one part of the point was for him to get sick, and die, and be an excuse to get The Entity (I'm not calling it "The Shadow", see above, re: stupid) back on the field.

But what about the Kaia-super special wtf is it made of God's fossilized jizz spear thing, Nash? -- Glad you asked.

Welp, not really, because fuck if I know. I don't mind Kaia being in the mix, I already spoke on how much that rocked not just during the WS pilot but spoke of it again in the ep where she returned, that actress is phenomenal and the character's got a ton of potential.

What I'm getting at, is: if The Entity isn't somehow integral in the Michael arc - which is supposed to be the major arc of the season, despite us having spent, collectively, about forty-five minutes on him - then what in the hell was the point?

So if they're playing the long game like seasonal shows are supposed to, keeping things articulated like a nicely polished skeleton (it's a bump-in-the-night show, hence the choice of analogy #you love it), then that's the only connective thread that makes sense.

Oh, and they also better say that Lucifer targeted Nick and ordered Abraxas to kill his family to make him vulnerable. They pussed out by not making it that Nick killed his family. That would've been *chef's kiss*

There, I'm done. See ya next week!

[elizabethrobertajones]

Hi! Do you think the bar to canon destiel is Mr Robert Singer or the money people or the historical intention/momentum of the show keeping it subtext or....?

As a fan I am not qualified to answer that, nor is anyone else in fandom and we shouldn’t throw around blame or hysteria there. In the sense of creating a boogeyman to blame for this.

And, I think a serious factor is just un-malicious ignorance of its presence/narrative possibility/their ability to write it. That however romantic the subtextual narrative, the writers have never considered that they were actually creating a going-canon-this-year arc and while I feel like the entire writers’ room, buckleming included, would be positive towards it, the reason it hasn’t happened yet is purely because it hasn’t actually been pitched as a proper arc and written as one, where you get all the blatant on screen tropes of something building up, vs the subtextual wallowing of extremely tense emotional arcs with buckets of innuendo or romantic tension, but no path into the main text re: we’re actually going there tropes that you start to see in romances which are, you know, actually being knowingly written as romances in stories overtly pitched as a romance, for the point of teasing us with get together romantic tropes rather than subtextual pining romantic tropes. 

Like. I think we as a fandom don’t seem to think very much about what I assume should be taken for granted, which is to say, that however it’s being written, they still aren’t doing will-they-won’t-they stolen glances and near-miss-kisses and the like that rapidly escalate romantic tension in a proper romance arc where that’s the main objective, and this means that as long as the writers can keep playing innocent in the main text, for all intents and purposes it’s like no one is talking about it. 

Which is why after 9x03, you know, a time AFTER season 8, packed to the brim with romantic tropes and an emotional arc of extreme drama, a higher up said it had never been pitched but they wouldn’t outright reject it if it was, and this caused an enormous amount of wank, despite stating the bloody obvious, which was, Dean n Cas didn’t get together in season 8, which means it hadn’t been written with the intention to get them together, which means that hearing it had never been pitched is barely surprising because it hadn’t happened and there was no particular reason after season 7 why they would start fresh with that pitch. 

I remember the letter the showrunner of Korra put out after the finale, confirming that we had been meant to see Korrasami going canon, and one of the things he said was he hadn’t thought they could even do it, and then when they thought they might be able to do it, still weren’t very brave to see what they could do, largely on the assumption they couldn’t. It seems to be very much a we can do better but we forget that culture that to people not actively invested in creating a queer narrative it doesn’t always seem obvious from the sort of heterosexual POV that a story should be queer, and that means that it’s always borderline surprising to realise, oh, we have the power to do that. Even when a showrunner might actually really LIKE a ship on their show, if they passively do not consider it, as a sort of ambient cultural homophobia that these stories just don’t exist and it doesn’t occur to people to write them, even when they have all the resources at hand.

Honestly I feel like the show has only really been in a position where they’d legitimately think about it and consider it in the last few years, because of the increased awareness. Making Chuck canonically bi is the turning point for me, and that shows that they have the mental resources, and the ability to think about this sort of thing, in a bigger picture way, and an awareness that they can even do this. Like, it was a brave move even for a throwaway line, especially as it’s their depiction of God, but it’s a power move in the sense of showing they know they can do this. Which also therefore means that we’ve only had the 2 seasons of Dabb era for this to even be a potential conversation and there we hit that brick wall of where I do not have the inside knowledge to assign blame of why nothing has happened yet, or why nothing may happen. But it does explain to me very very easily how we might get to season 12 without this even remotely being a storyline that would be dreamed of among the writers for full canon.

(And yeah I’ve been in fandom dreaming of canon longer than that but this is called character growth and understanding more :P) 

[shirtlesssammy]

13x22: Exodus

Then:

Gabe came back to save the day!

Now:

Sam’s alive! And Lucifer just wants to be part of the gang, and to get to know his son. Dean is in protective Mom mode and tells Gabe to kill Lucifer. All the anger and hostility causes Jack to fly off to safety.

To keep some semblance of order, Cas puts the angel warded handcuffs on Lucifer, while Lucifer tells the group that they have about 31 hours before the rift closes. Rowena’s holding down the fort, and not looking too positive about the whole situation. Also, Sam sets his phones timer for 31 hours. A: Won’t the battery run out before then? And 2: Shouldn’t you maybe set it for 29 hours or something just to be safe?

Dean checks in with Sam to make sure he’s ok, and he is. Dean just thought he lost his brother, and Sam just thought he died. This was a worthy hug.

Now Sam, can you at least clean your blood off your neck? Yuck.

Sam tells Dean that he will handle Lucifer.

Meanwhile, Jack’s off alone reeling from meeting Lucifer for the first time. He flashes back to the video of his mother (was this new footage or from earlier?), and Sam (so protective, so parental), and then to the security guard he accidentally killed and au!Kevin dying for the “cause”. Oh, sweet little nougat (at what age does he have to reach before we have to stop calling him our little nougat?).

Cas escorts Lucifer from point A to point B at the camp (like, where were they going?) Anyway, they take a pit stop so Luci can be snarky and Mary can punch the devil in the face (again). Yay!

Mary is 100% badass and I love her, but do you ever stop to think about how great it was for Sam to have Dean raise him and not Mary or John? They were a mess! Sam and Dean show up to tell Mary they need to start heading back to the rift to make it home in time. Mary tells them she’s not leaving. There’s work to be done here. She’s fought beside the people here. There’s too much to fight for. That goes over like a lead balloon. Sidenote: Mary’s makeup is on point in the AU. Maybe it’s not such a bad place after all?

Cas, Jack, and Lucifer parley and Jack wants to listen (UGH) to what Lucifer has to say.

Lucifer tells Jack that he can ask him anything. “Why does everyone hate you?” Lucifer makes some good points (and some icky rapey Buckleming points, ugh), but nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Back in Dean, Sam, and Mary land, Dean’s arguing against fighting the good fight, and asks Sam to back him up, but Sam being Sam, he agrees with Mary. “Wait, what?” Dean asks, incredulous. “Mom doesn’t want to leave these people.” Dean’s poor face. Sam suggests they bring them with, regroup, and come back stronger than ever. Just as Dean questions the ability to cram 25 people through the rift, a VERY dramatic Cas arrives to tell them Jack is now with Lucifer.

Lucifer has a one on one with Jack but TFW interrupts, trying to make it clear to Jack that they’re his family, not Lucifer. Jack then calls Lucifer his father (BIG UGH).

The group heads out to the basecamp.

Mary and Dean get some time to talk. Mary wants Dean to give Jack a break. Man, Mary’s conversation about Jack learning about Lucifer, and seeing him for who he is through his own eyes. Dean should be taking notes on how to think about his own childhood, and his own memories of John.

Gabriel, who was off scouting, comes running at the group alerting them to incoming angels. Battle stances commence, and then the angels just disappear into smoke. It seems the handcuffs don’t work in the AU and Luci just smoked them all, and then dissolved the handcuffs. Oops.

It seems the basecamp is Singer Auto Salvage --it’s not in Sioux Falls but it’s damn nice to see that sign again. And it’s not our Bobby (Goddamnit, where is he?? Andrew Dabb, how have you failed us on that storyline?), but he’s just as much a curmudgeon. Dean asks about Charlie and finds out Ketch and her went off to find an angel kill squad.

Lucifer and Jack continue the family reunion. Lucifer tells him all about the other archangels. Ok, Buckleming, you get one pass if you scripted that high five. It was funny and cute. I give 90% of the credit to Jack though. They meet up with Gabriel.

Gabe can barely hold in his hostility for Lucifer. GABE!

Charlie and Ketch find the angels, but it’s a trap! They’re captured.

Team Free Winchester try to convince the leadership at the camp to head over to Sam and Dean’s world. “You want us to follow you through some magic door that’s gonna blast us the hell out of here and into some fairy tale world where everything’s pretty?”  DUH. Just do it, Andy!

The AU campers will talk about it. At the end of the meeting, Bobby comes up to tell Sam, Dean, and Mary that Charlie and Ketch were captured.

Ketch and Charlie are having a great time hanging with angels. Eating angel food cake, playing ring toss with halos. The whole nine yards. Or, urgh, Ketch is getting tortured and interrogated for the resistance base location. Ketch snarkily resists their efforts, earning my grudging respect. (Boris: Ngl, watching Ketch get tortured was kind of poetic. But he’s on his big redemption arc so I guess it’s also sad. Remember folks: Ketch killed Magda!) Then they bring in the big guns. AU!Castiel, complete with insane lip twitch. AU!Castiel does not look well, as evidenced by his non-floofy hair and rogue eye that's probably gone bad from incessant “reprogramming.”

In the resistance camp, TFW interrogates the human that betrayed Charlie and Ketch. I only picked up on this in the rewatch, but Dean nods to Cas to start and stop his mind meld on the guy. I know this can be seen as teamwork but I'm sort of super duper gutted by that. I keep remembering how Cas oftens sees himself as a tool and I feel like he's in that role right now – an instrument of torture wielded by Dean Winchester.

Anyway.

shudder

Cut to Lucifer whining to Gabriel about how boring it is to wait for an attack. Gabriel is quietly amused at Lucifer's desire to rush out and be big and heroic to impress Jack. “I've known you since the stars were made,” Gabriel tells him and he thinks Lucifer’s full of shit. “Humans are innocent and beautiful,” Gabriel says (while I whisper to him that I suddenly really really love him). Lucifer’s motivation for his corruption of humanity was down to jealousy, plain and simple. Lucifer pulls a single man tear which... Whatever, Luci.

Back with AU!Cas, he hones in on Charlie. “Everyone has a breaking point,” he tells her before he tries to suck her mind out of her head. (I'm definitely NOT thinking about how AU!Cas hit his breaking point. He's broken. Shattered. A sharp blade of pain.) There's a ruckus outside, saving Charlie momentarily. It's Mary and TFW! They bust in and defeat the angels guarding Charlie and Ketch. Outside, Castiel confronts AU!Castiel.

Cas tells Castiel that he's grown used to humanity and that he prefers humans to angels. Despite this, they both agree that they're the same, and then Cas kills AU!Castiel. I have a whole headcanon about this scene. Ready? Okay. AU!Castiel is broken, tortured by Heaven into existing as a mere weapon. Cas sees this and recognizes his fate, his horrible scars and terrible weaknesses. He sees the soldier. He sees the broken person. And he kills him easily because he views it as both mercy and necessity. AU!Cas is irredeemable, so damaged is he. Now, all he can do is rest eternally in the Empty.

Let's take a hug break.

Cas shakes it off (OR DOES HE?) and everyone reunites at the camp. Bobby announces to the Winchesters that they're all planning to head back with them. Super! It's time for a PARTY BUS! Dean fixes a school bus (Natasha fans herself) and everyone piles onto the bus to head out. Sam runs after Jack and tries to keep him from fulfilling his promise to kill Michael. Sam wants them to regroup and plan a good attack and Lucifer agrees. Jack...listens to Lucifer and then calls him “father.” Yikes, Jack.

The vehicles, packed full of many of my favorite characters, head down the road to the rift. Eek! I sure am glad those rifts mostly only open just off of roadways. When they arrive Sam sees the rift is starting to close.

Rowena's exhausted on the other side, desperately trying to keep the rift open. Everyone files in and through. “About bloody time,” Rowena greets Castiel breathlessly. On the other side of the portal, angels zoom in. Michael arrives with an impressive wing display.

Lucifer and Michael begin to fight while Sam, Dean, and Gabe just....stand around picking their noses, I guess. Until Gabe decides to start fighting Michael. Michael pulls out his archangel blade and they fight. We're feeling pretty good about it until Gabriel gets knifed. NOOOOOOOO every time! 

Sam angrily pushes a weakened Lucifer away from the rift and then jumps through. The rift closes behind him leaving Michael and Lucifer behind in the AU.

In the bunker it's a PARTY. Sam thanks Rowena. Charlie and Ketch have forged a friendship (odd but I’ll allow it). Dean and Cas share emotional stares a.k.a. an “eyefuck.” Jack is sad.

Bobby gives the troops a rallying speech and everyone experiences warm and fuzzy feelings. I mean, I certainly do. Look at all their friends! Take that, Team “All My Friends are Dead.”

Back in the AU, Gabriel lies apparently (possibly? definitely?) dead on the ground with charred wings. Lucifer and Michael plot together to get back into the Winchesters’ world and strike a deal. Lucifer will get his son and Michael gets the world. Booo bad deal.

Party Quotes:

What do we do about Lucifer?

You are who you choose to be.

I am not your “sport”

That may be the dumbest friggin’ idea in a landfill of dumb ideas.

You want us to follow you through a magic door that's gonna blast us the hell outta here and into some kind of fairy tale world where everything is pretty?

For whatever reason, I got a good feeling about you two.

See you on the other side, bitches.

And you’re an ass clown.

Way to go, DAD!

Want to read more? Check out our Recap Archive!

[canonicallysoulmates]

PaleyFest Panel Thoughts

I'm going to try to make this as cohesive and coherent as I can, but this are just my thoughts and observations of the panel as a whole so if it's a little scatter brained in places I apologize. 

(*I had some problems narrowing down the specific time somethings happened so, time stamps are not specific. Meaning they might be a couple of seconds ahead or behind the talked about moment.

**Not everything has a timestamp. But everything is ordered from beginning to end of the panel.)

You can watch the whole panel on Paley's official Facebook page -> here

The beginning of the panel concentrated on Scoobynatural then moved on to s13 and acting and whatnot and ended with audience questions.

 Starting with something random; (6:59) At the beginning of the panel they were talking about Scoobynatural and Jensen asked Singer&Dabb how they idea came to be, and the way he posed that question, the way he delivered that question made me realize he would be really good at interviewing people.

(8:55) Whilst talking about Scoobynatural it was revealed that they cut a Misha/Castiel scene out of the episode.

I'm just gonna leave what Dabb said here: "It was a Misha scene and we figured that was losable" - Andrew Dabb

😂😂😂

This was really interesting, or at least I found it really interesting, they were asked about the concept for this season, season 13, the AU worlds, and Dabb said/explained that this idea was pitched by BuckLemming during s12 and he (or they) stole it for Wayward Sisters but to quote him "when that did not go forward" he stole it back for Supernatural.

Does this mean WS was not picked up? Does this mean it was rejected from the beginning and all of the over the top promo it got was smoke and mirrors, perhaps in the hope that if it was hyped enough the network would change its mind?

Or is this just Dabb not making sense (as usual)?

To me the way it sounds is that it was rejected from the beginning. Or not picked up.  But that's just me.

I don't know why BucknerLemming were there. They didn't really contribute anything, only talked a little bit about the AU world.

(11:14)Ok, there was one thing. Lemming said that a lot of their stories start with someone coming in and saying 'what if?' then someone saying 'well that's a crazy idea and someone saying 'no I think that's a really good idea' and that turns into a season.

I think that perfectly explains why this show is so un-cohesive now a days. If your writers aren't on the same page then you're show isn't going to be either.  

(12:21) Dabb said they stated in their writers room this is the world sam and dean were never born into.

I made a rant about this.

He also said the AU characters are still the same people just haven't gone through the same experiences. 

Which makes no sense, how can they be the same people if they haven't gone through the same experiences our characters did?

That's not how AU's work. That's not how people work.

The AU characters have gone through different things. They're going to be different. 

To write the AU characters as if they were the same as our characters is lazy, and bad writing. 

If they weren't gonna put effort and thought into it, they shouldn't have gone with this idea. 

(18:44)  There was a possible s14 confirmation. This was the second really interesting moment, the interviewer asked if the Big Empty is something they'll visit again, and Singer said they might visit it again next year. As in during s14.

Take that as you will…

(22:47) I found this a funny story, Jensen and Jared got kicked out of the set because they kept making Alex laugh. Jensen told the story, and what happened was that when Alex was filming one of  his close ups during 'Tombstone' the boys [j2] kept making him laugh so he kept screwing up his shot  and eventually the director, Nina, decided to get j2's close ups first so she could get them out of the set and then get Alex's close up.

Whilst answering a question Jared talked about producing the show, he mentioned how somebody had asked why he and Jensen don't have producer credits after so many seasons. He gave a very professional answer,  said he wouldn't want to do what the shows writers and producers do, that he doesn't think he could do it.

With all due respect, I disagree, I think him and Jensen would do a great job as producers for this show. I think after so many seasons, so many years, they deserve that credential more than anybody else. 

(50:08) I don't know how to explain this moment. Words can't do it justice, you really have to watch it. During the audience question part of the panel a fan brought up Sam and Dean's relationship and j2's closeness, not in a bad way, he was asking about how they managed to make their relationship come across as genuine from the beginning and how they've managed to keep it going after 13 seasons.

Like I said I don't know how to explain this moment, you really gotta go and watch it.

During that moment, Jensen mentioned Wendigo and told the story of Kripke sitting them down and telling them and I quote: "Guys, I can't impress upon you how important this is, [and he pointed to the two of them and said] this relationship is crucial to the success of this show. It lives and dies with you. And you need to understand that you are now shouldering this responsibility."

I love that Jensen shared that story. I think there's a lot of people who forget that fact, including some of the people up on the stage with them. 

I found it an overall good panel. And I thought the interviewer asked some pretty good questions.