#and she doesn't even know he's chat noir and that HE was the one fighting him 😭😭

[little-mari-on-a-roof]

can't even be alone with my thoughts for two seconds because I keep thinking about the LIE and its implications for Marinette and for Adrien and for the whole world around them and then I start crying 😭😭😭 someone save me

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Pick One: Magical Girl Show or Rom-com. You cannot be both.

Early in season four we get the episode Gang of Secrets. An episode that ends with Marinette outing her secret identity to Alya. A touching moment that sparked outrage across the fandom because it meant that Marinette had made the choice to reveal her identity to her best friend while keeping her hero partner in the dark.

This choice spat in the face of the exceptions that many fans had for the series. Thousands of pre-season-four fanfics feature moments where Ladybug and Chat Noir promise each other that they'll be the first to know each other's identities. After the Alya reveal, scores of fanfics were written to salt on Marinette's choice to tell the "wrong" person.

Most of these fics feature a betrayed Chat Noir quitting or otherwise punishing Ladybug for breaking their promise to be each other's first, thereby destroying his faith in their partnership. But that promise was never made on screen. It only existed in the realms of fanfic and, when Chat Noir finally found out in canon, his reaction was largely neutral. He never once blamed Ladybug for her choice or pushed for a reveal or even asked for the right to tell one of his friends.

So what happened here? Why did the fans have such wildly unrealistic expectations of canon? Were their expectations even unrealistic or did canon betray them? The answer to that is not as straight forward as you might think because it all comes back to one of Miraculous' many, many, many writing problems: Miraculous is trying to be both a Magical Girl Show and a romantic comedy, but those are not genres that mesh. You can only be one (or you can be a third thing that we'll get to at the end as it's the easiest way to fix this mess, but I want to mostly focus on where the anger is coming from and why the writing is to blame.)

To discuss this mismatch, we're going to do something that breaks my heart and talk about some of Origins flaws. While I love that episode and unironically refer to it as the best writing the show ever gave us, it's not perfect and its flaws are all focused around trying to set up both genres. Do note that I'm going to use a lot of gender binary language here as magical girl shows have a strong focus on gender segregation and rarely if ever acknowledge gender diversity.

Let's Talk Magical Girls

Magical girl shows are shows that center on young women and their friendships. While male love interests are often present in these shows, the boys tend to take a backseat and function primarily as arm candy while the girls save the day and carry the narrative.

A great example of this is the show Winx Club. This show features a large cast of teenage girls who save the magical universe from various threats with their magical powers. Each girl has a love interest, but the boys are usually off doing their own thing and only occasionally show up for a date or to give the girls a ride on their cool bikes or magical spaceship. I don't even think that we see the guys fight or, if we do, it's a rare thing. They are not there to save the day. They are there to be shipping fodder.

Like most magical girl shows, Winx Club starts with the main character making friends with one of the girls who will eventually become part of her magical girl squad. This brings us back to Miraculous.

Did you ever find it weird that Origins implies that Marinette has no friends? She doesn't even have a backbone until new girl Alya shows up to become Marinette's First Real Friend:

Marinette: I so wish I can handle Chloé the way you do. Alya: You mean the way Majestia does it. She says all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing. (pointing at Chloé) Well, that girl over there is evil, and we are the good people. We can't let her get away with it.

This is a bizarre opening because Miraculous is not about Marinette making friends or learning to stand up for herself. If you skipped Origins and just watched the rest of the show, then you'd have no clue that Marinette wasn't close with her classmates before this year. You also wouldn't know that Alya was new in town and you definitely wouldn't know that Marinette had never stood up to Chloé before this year. So why is this here? Why waste screen time setting up elements that aren't actually important to canon?

Miraculous did it for the same reason that Winx Club did it: magical girl shows traditionally start with the main character making friends with at least one of her eventual female teammates because Magical Girl shows are all about the girls and their relationships. The boys are just arm candy.

But Miraculous isn't a magical girl show. The writers have explicitly stated that it's a rom-com and romantic comedies aren't about female friendship. They might have female friendships in them, but that's not where the focus is. The focus of a rom-com is on the romance and Origins is very clearly all about the romance.

Origins as a Rom-com

Origins has a lot on its plate. It has to establish the villain's motivation for the first time, show us how the heroes got their miraculous, show us how the heroes first met on both sides of the mask, show us how they met their respective best friends, and show us how the heroes dealt with their first akuma. It would be perfectly understandable if this 40 minute two-parter didn't do anything with the romance. They have a full show to give us that!

In spite of this, Origins has some incredibly touching moments for both Ladynoir and Adrienette because romance is the heart of Miraculous. It is the main focus of the show. The driving motivation for both of our leads and the majority of the show's episodes. To tell the story of how their journey started without at least one of them falling in love would feel wrong. That's why we see both of them fall in love!

First we get Chat Noir giving his heart to his bold and brilliant lady, then we get Marinette's heart being stolen by the shy sweet boy who never once thought to blame her for her snap judgement of his character. We even get a touching moment where Chat Noir inspires his lady to accept her role and be Ladybug, leading her to boldly face their enemy and call him out:

Roger: I have a new plan, unlike you! Move aside and let the pros do their thing. You've already failed once! Ladybug: …He's right, you know. If I'd captured Stoneheart's akuma the first time around, none of this would have happened! I knew I wasn't the right one for this job… Cat Noir: No. He's wrong, because without you, she'd no longer be here. (they look at Chloe) And because without us, they won't make it, and we'll prove that to 'em. Trust me on this. Okay? Ladybug: Okay.

I love this moment, but it does lose a little of its power when you remember that we had an Alya-driven variation of this exact same thing five minutes prior:

Alya: HELP!! (Marinette suddenly gets filled with courage. She gets the case out of Alya's bag and puts on the Miraculous. Then, Tikki appears, happy to see Marinette again.) Tikki:(raising her arms) Mmmm! Marinette: I think I need Ladybug! Tikki: I knew you'd come around! Marinette: Well, I'm still not sure I'm up for this, but Alya's in danger. I can't sit back and do nothing.

This scene initially confused me because - if Miraculous is a rom-com - then why would you make Alya the reason that Marinette became Ladybug? Why wouldn't you have Chat Noir be the one in danger so that Marinette chose to fight because of her love interest and then encourage that bond with the later scene of him encouraging her? Why split the focus like this? Why give Alya so much attention?

In case you haven't figured it out, it's because Origins is trying to establish two different genres of show. Two genres that will continue to fight for the rest of the series (or at least the first five seasons).

Magical Girls Vs Rom-com

Why is Alya the one to shake off the nightmare dust and inspire the others during the season five finale? Why is Alya the one that Marinette trusts with all of her plans while Chat Noir is kept in the dark? Why does Alya and Marinette's friendship get so much more focus than Adrien and Nino's? Why was Alya the only temp hero who got upgraded to full time hero?

It's because Alya is Marinette's second in command in a magical girl show and magical girl shows focus on female friendships while the boys are just there to be cute and support the girls.

Why do most of Marinette's talks with Alya focus on Adrien? Why is Chat Noir the only other full time holder of a Miraculous for the first three seasons and then again for the final season? Why do Marinette's friends become more and more obsessed with Adrienentte as the show goes on? Why is the love square's identity reveal given so much more narrative weight than any other identity reveal?

It's because Miraculous is a rom-com and the love square is our end game couple, so of course the story focuses on their relationship above all else!

Are you starting to see the problem?

Circling back to our original question: no, it was not unreasonable for the fans to expect that the Alya reveal would have massive negative consequences for Ladynoir. That is what should happen in a rom-com and Miraculous is mainly written like a rom-com. But the writers are also trying to write a magical girl show and, in a magical girl show, Alya and Marinette's friendship should be the most important relationship in the show, so it makes perfect sense that the show treats the Alya reveal as perfectly fine because the Alya reveal was written from the magical girl show perspective.

When it comes to Miraculous, if you ever feel like a writing choice makes no sense for genre A, re-frame it as a thing from genre B and it suddenly makes perfect sense which is fascinatingly terrible writing! It's no wonder there are people who hate the Alya reveal and people who will defend it with their life. It all depends on which genre elements you've picked up on and clung to. Neither side is right, they've both been set up to have perfectly valid expectations. Whether those expectations are valid for a given episode is entirely up to the mercurial whims of the writers!

How Do We Fix This Mess

At this point, I don't think that we can, the show is too far gone, but if someone gave me the power to change one element of Miraculous, that element would be this: scrap both the magical girl stuff and the rom-com stuff and turn Miraculous into a team show where the friendships transcend gender.

At this point, I've written over a quarter of a million words of fanfic focused on these characters (the brain rot is real) and one thing I've discovered is that it is damn near impossible to keep Adrien and Alya from becoming friends. They're both new to their school while Marinette and Nino have gone to the same school for at least a few years. Alya and Adrien are both obsessed with Ladybug plus Adrien is a natural hype man who loves to support his friends and Alya loves to talk about her blog. Alya is dating Adrien's best friend. On top of that, Alya, Adrien, Nino, and Marinette are all in the same class, meaning that they pretty much have to be spending time together five days a week unless French school don't give kids a chance to socialize or do group projects. If so, then judging them for the first issue, but super jealous of the latter.

Given all of that, why in the world is does it feel like Alya is Marinette's close friend while Adrien is just some guy who goes to Alya's school? Along similar lines, while canon Marinette barely talks to Nino, I've found that Marinette and Nino tend to get along smashingly, especially if you embrace the fact that they have to have known each other for at least a few years.

If you embrace this wider friendship dynamic and scrap the girl squad, replacing it with Alya, Adrien, Marinette, and Nino, then the fight for narrative importance quickly goes away. It's no longer a question of is this episode trying to be a magical girl show or a rom-com? Instead, the question is: which element of the friend group is getting focused on today? The romance or the friendship?

A lot of hero shows do this and do it well. I think that one of the most well known examples is Teen Titans. That show has five main characters and the focus is usually on their friendships, but there is a very clear running romantic tension between the characters Robin and Starfire with several episodes giving a good deal of focus to their romance. I'd say that this element really starts in the show's the 19th episode - Date with Destiny - and it all culminates in the movie that capstones the series: Trouble in Tokyo. The character Beast Boy also gets a romance arc and, while it's more short lived, it's further evidence that you can have strong romances and strong friendships in the same show and even the same episode. You just have to own the fact that boys and girls can be friends with each other, a very logical thing to embrace when your show has decided to have a diverse cast of heroes instead of imposing arbitrary gender limitations on its magical powers.

I couldn't figure out a way to work this into the main essay, but it's relevant so I wanted to quickly point it out and give you more to think about re Origins. Have you ever found it weird how Origins gives both Adrien AND Marinette the "I've never had friends before" backstory and yet wider canon acts like Marinette has this strong amazing friend group while Adrien doesn't seem to care about making friends and instead focuses all his energy on romance? Why give both the protagonist and the supposed deuteragonist this kind of origin if it's not going to be a major element of the show? It makes so much more sense to only give one of them this backstory and then focus that person's character arc on learning about friendship.

[kaileedraws]

Introduction: Marinette Dupain-Cheng

Here are some of my changes to Marinette in my Miraculous AU! Below I'm going to go into a little bit further detail about what I'm changing about her character and why. I'll list the problems that I have with her character in the show and explain how I plan to fix it.

1. Marinette is the only character that must be there in order for a fight to be won

I've noticed in the story, other characters have little to no opportunity to save the day if Marinette is not present, and this seems a little unrealistic. She is the protagonist, but I feel like her biggest lesson is that she doesn't need to do everything herself - but unfortunately, the story's plot only reinforces the fact that she DOES need to do everything herself, or else things will backfire on her. I will be balancing the Miraculous powers to reflect the unique aspects of everyone's personality and show that Marinette can rely on others - especially Chat Noir - to win without her.

2. The show's narrative punishes characters when they trust others - making Marinette a hypocrite

An example of this is pushing the narrative that Ladybug and Chat Noir cannot know each other's identities or else the world will end (except in their alternate universe). Marinette also punishes Alya for trusting Nino with her identity - yet is not so reluctant to share her own identity with her own best friend.

More people know Ladybug's identity than Chat Noir's identity (and not even because he told him he was Chat Noir), yet Ladybug consistantly shows Chat Noir that she trusts others more than him. She has a hypocritical nature of warning him about secrets, yet does the very things he warns him against.

Fixing this, Marinette, as a character, lacks trust due to her past with Chloe - an ex-best-friend - and Kim - an ex-crush. She has a nature of becoming suspicious of strangers, and she is overly cautious and judgemental of those she meets (which would also explain her canon reactions to Lila and Kagami when she first meets them). Because of this, she stereotypes Adrien when she first meets him and thinks he is just trying to manipulate her like all of the other popular kids she has met. He is constantly trying to prove to her that she is a good person and she doesn't buy it for a while. For Alya, she is also suspicious with her at first, but because she is so brutally honest to everyone - she has an easier time with learning to trust her than anyone else she meets.

With the Ladynoir dynamic, Ladybug starts the series pushing Chat Noir away - desperately trying to keep their relationship professional. But as things blow up in her face the more she pushes him away and tries to do everything herself, she finds herself apologizing for her mistakes and trying to become closer to him so they can function better as a team (power of love always so strong~). As the story goes on, she finds that she can be more herself as Ladybug to Chat Noir than as Marinette because Marinette becomes a chronic liar to keep her identity.

In the future, when Alya comes clean to Marinette that she told Nino about her own miraculous, Marinette reacts the way she did in the show and feels betrayed, but later forgives Alya and trusts her to make her own decisions in her life (character development here).

3. Marinette doesn't have a clear character arc

the show is set up - as cooberated by many others - as a "lesson of the day"-type show, but Marinette doesn't have any character development other than becoming a little more confident and standing up to her bully (which also gets her into trouble more and happens early on in the show). I think that her character development should revolve around learning to trust others and learning that she can't do everything by herself, and learning how to cope with her anxiety.

4. Marinette's creepy obsession (Stalker) with Adrien

No one tells Marinette that she takes things a little too far with Adrien except for the school bully (Chloe). She doesn't even recongize herself until later that what she's doing is wrong. I feel like - especially aged up - that Marinette has a duality with this. She knows morally that it's not OK to stalk people or be as obsessive as she is, but she continues to make excuses that she is either protecting Adrien or herself from harm. She feels guilty about it, but her inherent curiosity and lack of trust gets the better of her sometimes.

5. Marinette is mostly bubbly and awake

Either this girl takes adderall every morning or eats coffee beans - she is always shown to be alert despite being a full-time student, overachiever, and superhero. It would be good to see her struggling with sleep more often and developing an energy drink/coffee addiction just to stay awake. Perhaps it gets so bad that she has to be hospitalized for severe sleep deprivation.

6. The plot prohibits Marinette from ever being akumatized fully

Because of her huge emotions, Marinette would definitely be akumatized at some point. She would fight it - perhaps Tikki would take her Miraculous and find a temporary holder - or not - but being a main character and a miraculous holder should not exclude her from becoming a victim of hawkmoth. This would also push the narrative that Marinette is not perfect and she is not inherently needed to save the day every time.

Conclusion

These are just a few of my changes for Marinette - once I nail down a design, I'll probably make a character sheet for her general personality. I like the idea that she is one of the weird, awkward art kids in school that is incredibly dark, tired, and weirdly bubbly around her friends, but depressed at home (my middle school experience tbh). I'm really excited to make Marinette a lot more relatable and a product of the things she experinces in the show - not just a protagonist with layers of plot armor and villian-like hypocracy!

[maddascanbe-blog]

FINALLY I got something done! I've been in such a rutt recently. I actually started this forever ago and just never got it done.

Lifeswap Kagami and Felix.

Felix grew up with only his father. Colt Fathom was determined to make Felix just like him, ya know, an ass. But with no other option, Felix was stuck living that life. He doesn't really know who he is, just that he doesn't want to be his father's puppet forever.

When Ladybug accidentally mistakes him for Adrien he doesn't correct her at first. Flairmidable is his chance to just BE someone else, he doesn't mind helping Ladybug fight the akuma's to do so. Though, why does Chat Noir seem to unhappy with him?

After his first bout as Flairmidible, Felix does tell Ladybug and Chat Noir that he isn't Adrien and regrets betraying their trust like that. While they don't have full confidence in him anymore, Chat Noir thinks Felix should be given another chance.

Kagami meanwhile is Marinette's childhood friend, and come to Paris in search of the Peacock miraculous.

Kagami has convinced herself that the reason her mother treats her like a tool and her father never stands up for her is because she isn't human. She has incorrectly come to the conclusion that she is a senti-monster and that's the cause.

Because if she were human, if Felix and Adrien are human, than why do their parents treat them as lesser beings?

Kagami's young mind can't wrap around the idea that there is nothing wrong with her, and that some people should just never be parents. This also leads to her harboring a deep resentment against Marinette for having two ever adoring parents who don't force her to be anything other than herself.

She thinks Marinette's life is perfect and hates her for it.

Marinette meanwhile does not realize that Kagami has anything against her, instead assuming their awkward first meeting had more to do with not seeing each other for so long. So Kagami is given the dragon with full confidence.

Design wise I wanted Life-swap Ryuko to look more disjointed to reflect Kagami's mental state. So I played up baking the design even more asymmetrical and added ring/chain like designs to her to emphasize how she feels trapped.

Felix meanwhile, I haven't shown his normal redesign but this one sure does look more natural on him. Since cannon flairmidible was supposed to copy Adrien, but this one I wanted to make look more distinctly Felix. He looks super friendly with his big ol' curls and ears and he has a sport coat over his shoulders because he's a 'humble' rich bitch.

[ramen8008]

I LOVE aged up Ladynoir dynamic because they are more mature and understand each other to a level that just AHHH!

One of my oldest and most loved Ladynoir head-canons basically goes like this:

Where as they grow older, they grow closer but especially during the time where the og friend group kinda separates because of college and Marinette being Marinette is like "you know what? not having close friends with me helps me focus on college AND ladybug" but she still NEEDS SOMEONE (whether she knows it at the moment or not) .

It gets tougher, the akumas evolve into causing more mental and emotional damage than physical, hawkmoth grows to understand that with their age and jobs it's easier to target their mind. During this time they've grown more independent than they should have. So one night they talk, they explain their situation, they vent to each other and decide that the comfort they feel with one another can't be compared to anything else. That maybe the other is more than just a work friend that they joke with, more than just someone they only see during the most stressful times of the day, maybe it's easier to find a best friend in someone who you've known for most your life, who you've been through thick and thin with, who understands you in ways most might never. So Chat Noir and Ladybug grow closer and closer.

They rant about college and work (Adrien works in his father's company now and did a business course so he doesn't have to model and Marinette has an Etsy shop on the side). They get close and have random night talks where they talk about things no one but them and the night sky will ever hear. Everything they go through as heroes, the ups and downs, and they also talk about fun stuff, learn more about each other, finding out that chat is a part of multiple fandoms, that Ladybug has a horrible bed head and hates that chat doesn't, that they more are more of a romantic at heart than they want to admit. But they also talk about just the struggles and anxiety that comes with their jobs, just how messed up what they went through as kids is now that they see it from an adults point of view, but they also just laugh it off, joke about the trauma some fights inflicted. Nightmares that keep them up, hopes they are too scared to say out loud, sometimes even the fear of losing purpose if hawkmoth is defeated.

There's so much more too. They have the kind of friendship where they make jokes and promises into the night about how if they are always going to be single because of their jobs they'll just get married in their superhero costumes. How ladybug is going to love making chat's kids little clothes and how chat is going to make sure that ladybug gets time with her future partner whenever there's an akuma by handling it for her. All the while not knowing that their feelings for each other keep on growing and growing. It's so huge that it feels like their hearts will combust but it's also constant to the point that they get used to it.

It hits them like a truck yet it's so slow, maybe just talking one night and it hits them that they can't imagine life without the other, that they want the other in a way that's more than what they ever thought, no they've thought of it before, they've jokes about it but never acknowledged the truth this jokes had in them, never acknowledged that over time they became to lean on each other more than just in battles, they became each others partners in more than just fights against akumas, more than in a platonic way. They've always loved each other but their love had grown into something much stronger

P.s. thx @rosekasa for reigniting my Ladynoir head canons and now I'm on a journey to go through all my head canons 🤍

[thequietkid-moonie]

Request: Marinette and Adrien with a friend who knows that they are Ladybug and Chat Noir, but doesn't tell them until they reveal it.

Their friend knows their true identity

[ HEADCANONS ] [ Marinette, Adrien ]

[ Miraculous Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir ]

Hehehe I liked writing this a lot! It was so funny to think!! Hope you liked it!

Im not sure if this is that good but I did my best!

Marinette Dupain-Cheng

Marinette always tries her best to find a balance between her normal life and her duty as one of the heros of paris, still she can struggle to find a proper way to do it, and even to be able to hide her secret identity since, most of the time, she can't just come up with a good excuse of why she has to go all of the sudden

The Miraculous magic can help her hide her identity but still as her normal self she can slip some commets or bad excuses, and if you know her enough you would be able to see that this is more than her usual clumsiness

No matter how you find out about she actually being Ladybug confronting her won't be a really good idea since it will make her feel really anxious, passing from trying to come up with a excuse or an argument to convince you that she isn't actually Ladybug (what probably just fails) to feel like a failure for letting someone find out about this (not that she would mad at you but at herself since now she thinks you can be on danger)

In the other hand, keeping it to yourself would be rather easy, specially since you two are friends she trust you so even if you aren't that good to hide the secret or say some comments that can hint that you know can be brush it off by an excuse (mainly because she prefer to believe you don't know yet)

Now that you know her identity you can understand her strange behavior or weird excuses that she say when there is danger that Ladybug has to take care of, and if you decide to help by trying to come up with a better excuse or just agreeding with her excuses so she can leave will help her a lot, she may find it a little strange sometimes but she will be relief that you believed her excuse more than anything (and she will even be grateful is you help her have an excuse to leave, even if is indirectly helping her)

If you treat her as usual whenever she met you as Ladybug she will be a little surprised (although, will leave the wondering to later, when none of you are danger), still she can be easily tricked by saying something like everyone put their trust on the heroine of Paris, not that she is too naive but she already knows you (you are her friend after all) and is just happy that you trust in Ladybug

If she ever decide to reveal her identity to you (or may even happen by accident) she will try to explain why she didn't say it before or that she want you to keep the secret and that she is trusting you with her life, she is more anxious than anything (even if she planned it), but when you tell her that you already knew it, she mood completely turn to be surprised and even embarrassment, at the end she will have the same chat of asking you to keep the secret but now she is a little bit more relief and will even laugh at this whole situation at the end

Adrien Agreste

Adrien knows how dangerous can be if someone gets to know his true identity, besides he enjoy a lot being Cat Noir, it gives him some freedom that he appreciate a lot so he also tries to protect that part of his life

Getting to know his true identity could be a little difficult for how diferent his personality is between him and the hero of paris, still you can find out if you put enough attention to his excuses to run away when is time to fight and if you know him enough

Deciding to confront him about is up to you, if you decide to tell him that you do know about his secret identity will be pretty shocking at first, but two are close friends and he knows that he can trust you then, at the end, he won't thing is a really bad thing, he will feel troubles and a little disappointed on himself for being so careless but assure you that he isn't mad at you or anything, if anything he is happy that if someone get to know that person is you, his friend

If you decide to tell him he won't accept it right away but will be more comfortable over time to rely on you to come up with excuses and even tell you how he feels by being a hero, as well if he gets to save you or just cross path with you while being Cat Noir he won't doubt on making a joke and even remark how you are just another random citizen of paris that he got to help. However, if he get to meet you while being Cat Noir but he doesn't know you know is him he will stile being cheerful and make some jokes but still be respectful to don't be so obvious with the fact that he already knows you

It isn't always that he has to come up with an excuse, he got already used to have a plan to cover up whenever he isn't in his room or when he has to come up with an excuse when he is busy with his extracurricular activities, so even if you were willing to help him to come up with an excuse is more likely that would have to be durinfg school, still that doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate whenever you help him with the excuse or cover up his ausence (but he does it mentally, unless he already knows that you know his identity)

If he ever decided to tell you about his secret identity it would be after thinking about it a lot and because he knows it would be necesary or helpful because the last thing he wants is to bring you troubles, so he would be trying to get ready to this, but if you admit that you already knew it will make him feel a little embarrassed but at the end will just laugh at it, in this case it would be easier for him to get comfortable and talk to you about his duty and all of that since it was his plan to tell you

[flightfoot]

I'd like to see Adrien snapped at Marinette for the whole lies she told him, even better if it happen after reveal so all lies will come to light and break up would be nice. But i really have no faith in this show anymore because if anything this show will go either Adrien get angry at Marinette but will forgive her a minute later because him being angry make her sad, Adrien get angry and left but something happen that make him misunderstood something and end up forgiving her despite everything like Kuro neko or it will happen in erased timeline a la chat Blanc or ephemeral.

Yeah I agree with you, like I want him to forgive Marinette for the lies and for them to make up (after he sets some boundaries with her that she makes sure to respect) but I'd want there to be tension between them for a few episodes, and for him to get to be angry at Marinette for a few days first.

Like we've seen Ladybug get to be angry at Chat Noir in the NY special and even to say that she doesn't trust him anymore for simply not informing her that there was a change of plans at the last minute and he'd be leaving Paris after all. Chat should get to be at LEAST as angry at her as she was at him in that scene.

Sparrow:(deep voice) You've come all the way from Paris to help us out? Cat Noir: Yeah! We thought it'd be friendly to give you a hand in honor of French American Friendship Week! (Techlonizer gets down and uses its laser beam as Ladybug, Cat Noir, Uncanny Valley and Sparrow split up.) Sparrow:(deep voice) See that?! They don't need anyone's permission to take action! Ladybug: That's right! He never asks for anything! DO YOU, CAT NOIR! Uncanny Valley: Sparrow, did you warn Knightowl and Majestia? (she punches Techlonizer) Sparrow:(deep voice) I couldn't! But you know what?! -- we don't need anyone's permission either! Uncanny Valley: Are you sure you wanna step out of the procedure? Sparrow:(deep voice) This is our chance to prove to them they were just like these two! Autonomous, bonded together but trust and super efficient! Ladybug: "Just go and rest easy! Yeah, leave Paris with me!" Cat Noir: I-I didn't know I was going to leave! It was a last-minute decision, that's all! (Techlonizer hits Ladybug and Cat Noir. Sparrow and Uncanny Valley are shocked.) Ladybug: Do you realize that because of you there's no one left in Paris to protect the city?! (Techlonizer runs away efficiently.) Ladybug: He's running away! Sparrow:(deep voice) You sound like Captain Obvious! Ladybug: Why didn't you tell me that you were leaving?! Cat Noir: I was afraid you'd get angry! Ladybug: And you were right, because as you can see, I AM angry!! Scene: New York City. Uncanny Valley: Autonomous, bonded by trust and super-efficient?! Sparrow: (deep voice) Yeah, I might have overestimated them. (Techlonizer lands down. Uncanny Valley drops Sparrow.) Sparrow: (deep voice) Surrender, Techno-Pirate! There's nowhere to run now![Superpower Sequence] [Cut to Cat Noir] Cat Noir:Cataclysm! (Cat Noir uses his Cataclysm.) [Cut to Ladybug] Ladybug:Lucky Charm! (Ladybug summons a bicycle pump.) Cat Noir: A bicycle pump? What are you gonna do with that? Ladybug: I may have an idea, but you wouldn't like it! Techlonizer: Why run away when I can finally get me revenge by eliminating the beloved kids of AMERICA'S MOST BELOVED HEROES! Cat Noir: M'lady, I didn't tell you because I was afraid of losing your trust! Ladybug: Well, I can't trust you anymore, can I?!

Side Note: I still think Ladybug was way angrier at Chat Noir than she deserved to be, especially considering that the Shanghai special canonically took place before this one, and she didn't give any notice that she was leaving when she totally could have (Chat didn't either, but it was last minute for him so he probably didn't get the chance).

But yeah. If Ladybug gets to berate Chat about the consequences of his actions in the middle of a fight and say that she's lost trust in him simply because he didn't tell her that he was forced to leave Paris at the last minute, then Adrien should be allowed to also say a similar level of stuff about being angry and losing trust in her over her lying about what kind of a person his father is and how he died.

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

MLB Identity Reveal Idea

okay so my favourite idea for Marinette learning Adrien's secret identity is for him to tell Marinette that he's Chat Noir

but he only tells Marinette

like, post season 5, Ladybug and Chat Noir discover that someone is using the Butterfly miraculous to akumatise people. they decide not to tell each other their identities in order to keep each other safe, just like they've always done.

and one day, Adrien and Marinette are on a date when an akuma attacks. in the panic to keep everyone safe, they get locked in a room, alone, together. the only exit is a skylight that Adrien could reach if he was Chat Noir, but there's nowhere for him to hide and transform, and he can't wait it out because he has to stop the akuma.

so Adrien figures 'if there's anyone I can trust with this, its her' and just tells her. he looks his gf in the eye and says "Marinette I have a secret but you have to trust me" and he transforms right there and then.

she's staring at him in my-bf-is-my-crime-fighting-partner shock, which he misinterprets as my-bf-is-a-superhero shock. he promises to explain, kisses her cheek, and jumps through the window

Marinette transforms after him and they stop the akuma and she gets back before him so that he can let her out of the room and he won't realise that she ever left

but now Marinette knows and he knows that Marinette knows, but not that Ladybug knows

he starts taking her on Chat Noir dates (think dating spider-man style), not realising that she swings around Paris every other day. he confides in her about feeling weird that he still doesn't know who Hawkmoth was even though Ladybug knows she realises she can never tell Chat Noir. he asks her to cover for him when Akumas attack and he needs to duck away and transform. he tells Marinette about problems with Ladybug. he tells Ladybug about problems with Marinette.

at some point, Marinette asks him about his crush on Ladybug, because she's trying to understand how their love life ended up so ridiculously complicated. he immediately reassures her that he and Ladybug are "just friends now" and that "Ladybug has a bf" and that Marinette "shouldn't be jealous because she's way cooler and prettier than Ladybug anyway." Marinette is fighting to keep a straight face.

and she just has to deal with this just because he had a valid reason for telling her, but she can't just tell him because she wants too yes she can, and she can't tell Ayla either she totally could because that would unnecessarily compromise Chat Noir's identity no it wouldn't

so she's just. dealing. she does her best not to flirt with Chat Noir when she's Ladybug. she tries not to reference inside jokes that Ladybug has with Chat Noir. Tikki is going crazy

the reverse of this idea doesn't work because if Adrien discovered that Ladybug and his gf were the same person, he would not hesitate to reveal his identity

[mlbigbang]

2023 Marichat & Ladrien Fic Rec List

It’s the end of the year which means it’s finally time for the ML Big Bang’s yearly fic rec lists! We’re really excited to bring you our contributors’ favourite fics started this year to supply you with plenty of reading material while you’re waiting for the Big Bang fics’ publication in January.

Boulangérella by @aidanchaser

Once upon a time, magic was wild. The two princes of the kingdom have been tasked with choosing their brides by the end of their 21st birthday celebrations. Crown Prince Adrien Agreste will have to choose between a woman who can protect his kingdom, a woman offering the power to wake his sleeping mother, and the woman he has loved and admired for the past year. Then there's also the seamstress that he is suddenly falling for. By the time he realizes he doesn't have the power to choose at all, it may be too late.

It's a creative Cendrillon retelling with the kwamis as fay, Adrien as the kingdom's prince and most wanted thief, and Marinette as the seamstess and superhero partner stealing Adrien's heart twice over.

Scary, like a little black purring kitten by @h-sunnywet-d

The calendar just turned into October, and Chat Noir has to make sure that his Good Friend Marinette appreciates the new season wholeheartadly. It sure won't backfire on the long run.

Just An Ordinary Girl by @kasienda

Chat Noir and the other heroes are in a bit of trouble, and Ladybug wanted just one weekend off! But luckily they know someone who can help. Someone who is just an ordinary girl…

you will never sleep alone (i'll love you) by @ladyofthenoodle

Marinette had saved up for months to be able to afford this vacation. Not only that, but she’d spent months trying to convince herself that it was okay to even take a vacation, that Monarch was really and truly gone. Which was why Tikki was at home with Alya, so that Marinette could actually relax and enjoy the plush amenities the hotel had to offer, such as a bed that looked like it cost five times her monthly salary. Or, she would be able to enjoy it, if she wasn’t standing in the middle of the villa she’d booked over a month ago, fighting for the bed with freaking Chat Noir, of all people.

May I introduce myself, Your Highness? by @chocoluckchipz

Whether picking up a stray animal off the streets or saving a dying child at the market, Adrien had always strived to be the best version of himself. Truly, he would've been the perfect candidate to be snatched up by a kwami, were he an orphan, dying somewhere remote after a short life full of nothing but suffering and misery. Yet as it stood, the sole heir to the French throne had little to complain about. Apart from, perhaps, a complete absence of a love life. That is until a mysterious girl, wandering around his gardens at night, catches his attention.

This fic has it all - Ladrien, royalty, fairy tale elements, magic and disguises! It's an enthralling read and one of my absolute favorite fics from 2023.

The Perfect Date by @peachcitt

“I dare you to ask this special someone on the date you just described.” “I totally will,” Adrien says with confidence, looking into the camera and nodding resolutely. “Scout’s honor.” He holds up the kitten as if swearing an oath. There is a space of silence. “Right now,” Hanna says. Adrien stares at her. “I’m daring you to ask that person out right now,” she says. or adrien has a little slip up during a live interview, and ladybug hears. for the golden hour zine!!

reserved by @luckyyoyo

“Don’t you think,” he coughed, a blush creeping up his cheeks, “this kind of thing should be.. reserved for my girlfriend?” He gestured to their poses. A squeak came from her mouth and her knees buckled, but surprisingly still had no struggle keeping Adrien up. “You know, you could always be my girlfriend.” Ladybug, saviour of Paris and local damsel-in-distress Adrien Agreste, suggests he gets a fake girlfriend to ward off his zombie fans. While lovingly holding him in her arms, of course. Adrien, far too comfortable in her arms, suggests it could be her. Introducing your superheroine pretend-girlfriend to your strict, uninterested father is a bit harder than Adrien realises.

Displaced by @kasienda

Adrien loosened his tie and dropped his suit jacket unceremoniously across the back of the sofa that was already cluttered with unopened boxes, mail, and unfolded laundry. He really should have listened to Nino and hired a maid or cleaning person of some sort. But well, he still had a secret to keep, and keeping that secret was more important to him than ever. He moved to his bedroom on autopilot without turning on the light, intending to collapse into bed immediately. But when he tried to slip into his space, he found it was already occupied. He flipped his phone flashlight on towards the ceiling to light the room in a soft glow. In his wife’s place, Ladybug lay sprawled diagonally across the bed.

here comes the rush before we touch (come a little closer) by @ladyofthenoodle

When an akuma attacks during Adrien Agreste's beach themed photoshoot on a dreary day in Paris, Ladybug is on the scene immediately. Unfortunately, with a glimpse of Adrien's alluring abdomen and without her partner, it's not long before she's hit, and Adrien with her—but maybe Ladybug can afford a little vacation with the boy she loves. He's certainly not complaining.

On Borrowed Time by @miabrown007

The life of Paris’ Golden Boy is all shine and glamour; blindingly bright smiles, neverending parties, bargaining for just a shard of time for being happy. But that’s alright; Adrien has long given up the false hope that someone will get it. That is precisely why it’s a spectacle when she does, when she barges in like a hurricane in crimson and turns his life upside down. Heaven knows, it’s time for the wind of change.

[chocostrwberry]

Helloooo I know I just commented on one of your posts (The marichat one tbh) and right after that I saw the akumatized Marinette/Princess justice and stuff and I couldn't help but ask myself a million questions all in a minisecond but I thought who would it be better to overthink these questions with than the creator?? So I just really wanted to ask

How does Chat Noir react to figuring out that Marinette is princess justice (if not that he already knew she was princess justice)?? Does Marinette have this thing for Chat noir where she doesn't necessarily harm him, just more like, try to dodge him?? Or does she attack?? Like in copycat when Copycat didn't harm Ladybug , but targeted Chat noir

Also, does Chat Noir knowing that Marinette is princess justice affect his way of combating/fighting ?? Does he try to stop her or talk some sense into her to convince her to unakumatize herself ??? ALSOO ONE LAST QUESTION, DOES SCARABELLA NOTICE MAYBE (if Chat Noir does indeed dodge the fighting style and stuff) HE'S NOT FIGHTING??

ALR ALR

I’ve been thinking about this because I’m still trying to get the “plot” for this episode done right, but IF he finds out Marinette has been Akumatized:

HE’LL BE LIKE,, really concerned for her?? Like he would try to comfort her but since he doesn’t know her all that well it’ll end up flopping a bit. But he’s lowkey trying to charm/flirt with her EVEN THOUGH she’s Akumatized to snap her out of it

Unfortunately since she’s been Akumatized based on angry emotions, she’s very hostile towards both of them. Kind of blinded by rage. But he does do this cute thing where he dances with her in the middle of the battle instead of fighting and she’s caught off-guard 😼

SCARABELLA FS NOTICES LMAOO, she’s highkey pressed he’s not fighting this akuma either while she’s getting whooped. She doesn’t realize it’s Marinette though until after she’s been rescued.

Marinette probably breaks into tears and apologize to Chat Noir and he’s like “you’re good it happens to the best of us” and super kind but he doesn’t understand that she’s apologizing because she’s Ladybug and let herself be Akumatized and she couldn’t be there to help him so he had to deal with it on his own.

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

Am I the only one who doesn't think if/when Adrien finds out about everything (him being a senti, the wish, his father being Hawkmoth/Shadowmoth/Monarch (pick your poison)) that he'll break up with or even lash out at Marinette?

I know we've seen him get angry with Ladybug over secret keeping, from not telling him important information and keeping him out of the loop. But isn't this situation different?

For starters, in this scenario, Adrien has already been dating Marinette for a while, at least a few months, before finding out. While this might not seem that it changes much, as he was already close to and in love with Ladybug when they went through their rough patches, there are actually some key differences between these relationships.

For starters, Adrinette at this point is in a devoted and loving relationship. Adrien feels secure in his relationship with Marinette, which is something not always afforded to him with Ladybug. Finding out that she had been keeping big secrets from him might cause a disturbance to this, but being as how their relationship is on much more stable foundation from Adrien's perspective, they may be able to recover more easily.

Additionally, Adrien tends to experience love in an all-consuming manner. Being as how he is in a reciprocal relationship with Marinette, his feelings are allowed to flourish a lot more and are arguably more potently felt than with his stunted affections towards the unavailable Ladybug. He's not going to easily just let go of something that fills him up and makes him feel loved and content.

What's more so is that Adrien as a civilian, is a lot more insular in expressing his feelings than Chat Noir is. Meaning, while Chat Noir might blow up when feeling angry or hurt, Adrien is more likely to keep it inside and either internalize the hurt (by blaming himself) or give himself time to get through it.

Finally, we have seen Adrien's reaction to Marinette being hurt (and it doesn't end well for the person who hurt her). What is, in my opinion a far more likely outcome to an Adrinette fight/breakup, is Adrien seeing Marinette as a victim, because let's be clear here, she is a victim.

Marinette has been through a ton of trauma. And then after seeing it all, she was sworn to silence by a number of people who honestly have more of a responsibility for disclosure with Adrien than Marinette does. Is it not Felix's responsibility to tell him about being a senti? Is it not Nathalie's responsibility to tell him about the crimes his father committed with her as an accomplice? Is it not Plagg's responsibility to tell Adrien about the wish he had to grant?

It is not Marinette's fault that all of these things transpired, and yet, she has been burdened with the knowledge of all of it and will likely be the one saddled with having to relay it all to Adrien. Adrien, who is compassionate and loves her, would likely see the position she was put it and rather than lash out, he would probably want to comfort her.

Thereby putting two very traumatized kids in the position of having to help each other out of their guilt and grief.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

You know what would make the Lucky Charm more balanced? Make it so that there are times where other characters figure it out, not just Ladybug. That way, it doesn't make Ladybug hypercompent and makes it possible for other people to save the day.

I don't mind Ladybug being the one best suited to Lucky Charm. I don't think it makes her hyper competent because you don't need a Lucky Charm to save the day. It's just the way that she saves the day. The other characters should have their own unique talents that let them win fights. Generally speaking, that's how strong teams work.

For a random example, let's talk about the teenage mutant ninja turtles simply because I think most people know something about that franchise. The character Donatello (aka Donnie) is the team's tech guy. He makes all kinds of inventions that help them save the day. The show would not be improved if all four of the turtles were able to take on this inventor role. I'd argue that it would actually be lessened because the characters would become interchangeable. This is something that the franchise seems to agree with as each version of the show gives each turtle unique skills and personality traits that makes each of them indispensable in their own way, which is what I think Miraculous should have done with the temp heroes.

That being said, I do think that there's a way to make your idea work. I'd just go a slightly different, more lore balancing route since Lucky Charm is technically bad lore and you all know how I feel about bad lore. So let's talk about giving it a minor tweak and how I think that would actually improve things.

Tikki is supposed to be Creation, not Luck, so the Lucky Charm shouldn't have anything to do with Luck. It should just be pure Creation where the holder comes up with a thing they want and that thing then pops up. It could also have a give and take element where the holder gets what they asked for if they want something specific, but they could also just call the power as a hail Mary and Tikki would come up with something on the fly, leading to the occasional puzzle.

This leads me to my proposed changed.

I personally think it would be hilarious and honestly more fun for Marinette's character if she could summon anything she wanted, but the Lucky Charms stay exactly the same because that's just how her mind works. Even when Tikki is helping, it's still all wacky items because Tikki knows how Marinette is and just goes with it.

For example, in Copy Cat, Ladybug turns a spoon into a hook for a cobbled together fishing pole. Wouldn't it be even funnier if Marinette summoned a spoon on purpose because she was thinking of the makeshift thing she cobbled together in order to fish up something she dropped from her balcony? Then, post fight, Chat Noir praises her like always, only to then ask, "So why a spoon and not a fishing hook?" And Ladybug just stares at him because oh, right, those are things they make. She could have done that. Ooops.

And in Malediktator where she summons a sniper rifle to get a laser pointer? Well, she was thinking about this silly comic about a cat assassin! She totally spaced on the fact that you could just get a laser pointer by itself.

Eventually, her team learns to just go with it and not ask questions. Meanwhile, the general public thinks that the Lucky Charm is some random item that Ladybug has to figure out and no one bothers to correct this misunderstanding. You can even have a running gag of new team members learning the truth and going through the acceptance process of, "Hey, you try thinking up how to set a trap while a 5 meter tall lollipop is trying to crush you! Your mind goes to what it knows, not to the ideal solution, okay???"

If we go with this setup, then other people can wield the Ladybug and use Lucky Charm effectively, they'll just use it in a very different way from the way Marinette uses it. There will also be people who are just not suited to the Ladybug since that was initially how the powers were supposed to work and it made perfect sense. Kwamis should have ideal holders along with okay backups and terrible backups. I personally think Alya would be an okay backup since she's creative, but not creative in the same way Marinette is, leading her to be a lesser Ladybug. Adrien, on the other hand, should generally suck at the Ladybug as he simply doesn't have that style of creative thinking. Which is fine. Better than fine, even! You don't want your characters to be interchangeable! They should all have strengths and weaknesses!

This is one of the show's big flaws. Since everything is on Marinette's shoulders, the other characters rarely get a chance to shine and so they feel interchangeable. For example, if gift always shows the target what THEY want, then why does Rose need to be the one to wield it? Juleka could wield it just as easily. And if Ladybug is generally the one telling Marc and Nathaniel what to summon with their powers, then their creativity is not needed. Anyone could wield the rooster and the goat! The show has completely failed to understand what makes teams memorable and so we have a bloated, boring team whose presence I'm dreading because they had five seasons to set these guys up and yet here we are.

[circeyoru]

How would the Overlords react to the collector being stressed or sad? Have they even seen them stressed/sad?

This is for {Collection of Overlords}, check MASTERLIST for the work

Interesting questions. Simple answer. The Collector/You don't get stressed or sad.

It's not that you don't get stressed or sad; you can, but there was never a situation or circumstance in which you do feel stressed or sad. You're more of the calm and collected one, whereas Trick would be hyper and chaotic (when they were once Noir, it was the opposite, somewhat).

The most you've shown your Overlords are pride, proudness, disappointment, and anger. Maybe happiness, if you want to put it that way, but it could also be seen as amusement most of the time. You really don't tend to show much feelings and expressions to them because you see no need to, if it was something that major, they wouldn't be able to help you anyways and you'd be dealing with it alone in the end.

You need to remember that Overlords aren't the top tier in terms of power, if you needed anyone's help in something troubling, you'd call for the Sins' help. Why you have the Overlords as your personal collection is cause they have potential to grow, but even at their full potential, they are nothing to

If you do express those, it's more like a prank to get a reaction out of them, or a test even.

Zestial — He's knowledgeable enough to know you're not actually sad or stressed in any way. Rather than comfort you, he'll ask to see if there was anything you wanted from him or if you were trying to get a reaction out of him. The former is a test, and the latter is a prank. So it's either work or fun for you. That's something he can't tell since you have a tendency to be mysterious to the point there was no understanding of what you'd do next.

Carmilla — It would fly off her radar that you were playing and/or testing her. She'll immediately try to consolidate you in any way she can. It can range from her showing off her various new weapons, her upcoming projects, some business plans. Oh, too formal? Well, she can always arrange a nice gathering with her daughter together and just chat together. Surely that would take your mind off of whatever was troubling you. Know that she wouldn't ask what it is, but what she can do about it, like is there someone she needs to torture or kill.

Rosie — Similar to Camilla, but she goes straight to the chatting and gossip tea party. She'll tell you all the latest juicy subjects and cook you some lovely meat (demon of course) and tell you how much Cannibal Town and its residents missed having you around. Why not a party tonight? A feast to brighten your mood. Naturally, she and the rest of the Cannibals will fight and destroy anything that stresses you out or saddens you.

Zeezi — Doesn't have the mind to think it's a prank and takes it all too serious. But at the same time, thinks that her performance in your eyes is not enough in some way. Tries very very hard to change it. If it was a prank, you really need to tell her after you got the laugh you wanted. Or not, doesn't matter cause it turned to a motivation and reason for her to be better so... Win-win.

Alastor — A mixture of Zestial, Carmilla and Rosie. Naturally, to him the first order of business was to make sure it was serious or not, so test or prank, but there's one more. Is there an order for him to follow. If it was a prank, you got him on his best behaviour, malewife level, he'll make your favourites and is at your beak and call no matter what. Even if and when Charlie calls him to do anything, his ears don't hear it, and he's only attentive to you. If it was a test, seriously, he passed with flying colours. Now, it were some indirect way of giving him an order, he got it and will immediately act on it, no questions asked and nothing to consider.

(for the Vees, I'm writing their state as before the events of Hazbin Hotel and this series)

Vox, Valentino, and Velvette — To be fair, they wouldn't even be tested, let alone pranked by you. Because you don't see the point in visiting them when they were that lacking. When they are like that in meetings (Part 4-5), you can imagine and see how they act outside of those meetings and needless to say, you're very very disappointed to the point of not wanting to deal with them. You won't even show them real emotions because you know they don't care nor will they do anything. Compared to the rest of the Overlords, why would you go to them for business or fun?

[trainsinanime]

Ladybug and Chat Noir are fighting an akuma in the bakery, and Ladybug has the found the perfect solution for the Lucky Charm. Part of it requires throwing a heavy object at the akuma, and Ladybug chooses something nearby whose weight she is familiar with: Marinette's sewing machine.

…except Chat Noir vetos it.

Ladybug questions whether he actually has the right to veto Lucky Charms, but he won't budge. It's not just Marinette's hobby, it's her most priced and most important possession, and part of her identity. Yes, the Lucky Charm cure should fix it, but what if it doesn't? They can't do that to Marinette!

Ladybug insists that she has perfect faith in the Miracle Cure, and also, Marinette would absolutely allow it if she was here right now. Besides, it wasn't even that expensive a machine, there are way better ones out there.

They argue for minutes, until they finally settle on a compromise: Ladybug can yeet the sewing machine, but Chat Noir has official permission to buy Marinette a new, better one if the Miracle Cure doesn't work.

Of course the miracle cure works. It's completely impossible to tell that the machine even moved. As far as Chat Noir knows, Marinette won't even know that the machine was part of the plan. Ladybug thinks that's that.

Except five days later, there's a tapping on her ceiling window. She looks up and sees a black-clad catboy disappear into the night. On her porch is a new sewing machine, the precise model she told him (as Ladybug) to pick as the ideal replacement machine, together with a hand-written card.

[theerurishipper]

For me, the most hilarious thing that broke Ladynoir's neck will forever be that Marinette in Kuro Neko never even realized that Shadowmoth presumably having akumatized Chat Noir as a civilian is a BAD THING for more reasons than mostly her having been a bad guardian.

That was for real at the core of her breakdown in that episode, you can re-watch it, its right there, and what Adrien had to accept and sympathize with.

That is hilariously pathetic bc that girl never even realized that if it truly had been civilian Chat Noir who had been akumatized, then merely deakumatizing him wouldn't have been enough by a LONG SHOT bc ShadowMoth fucking FOUND HIM.

Chat and his loved ones would from then on never be safe again in Paris until ShadowMoth is defeated, but Marinette at no point in the episode or even by the end of season 5 ever realizes that.

Straight up canonly speaking, In the scenario of Chat Noir being found by ShadowMoth as a civilian, the biggest victim in Marinette’s eyes was herself and her poor guardianship. That is hilariously depressing.

That boy has barely any worth in her eyes, it's questionable if she even noticed for how long he stopped showing up in the beginning of the episode. If the father son Story had dared to happen like in Ephemeral before and Adrien had been caught behind her back and now was in desperate need of her PLEASE realizing that Chat isn't showing up anymore, man, if Gabriel had been using the opportunity to try and manipulate Adrien into thinking Ladybug doesn't care for him Gabriel would have straight up succeeded here.

But sure, Ladynette is bestest gurl, leader and partner in all of fiction lol

Not to mention, Marinette just dead ass let CatWalker be the deciding voice of the Ladynoir conflict, despite him from her perspective having no right to claim he has any strong opinion on this at all.

À random prince charming showed up for 10 minutes, told her she's the most amazing and blameless person who ever walked upon earth and that Chat's an ungrateful count with no rights so HE - CatWalker - will now dedicate himself to be her magical perfect care taker 'as she deserves'

And gurl just went "well damn, you are right! Chat IS a cunt, I AM blameless and deserves a perfect therapy prince!" and just called it a day and never learned from this.

From Marinette's perspective CatWalker should have been the most blatantly obvious manipulator ever since she has no idea if Plagg actually made it safely to Fu's "second black cat" and she should have punched him in the face for how bluntly he shit talked Chat Noir and tried making her fall for and trust him - CatWalker.

But nah. shit-talking Chat and stroking her ego were when Marinette genuinely fell in love with him for good and only send him away when having CatWalker around wasn't practical for her hero performance (which was then ALSO indirectly blamed on Chat Noir in the end lol

Nice, good to know that Marinette's dream love interest and partner being a magical desperate care taker of perfection who would rather rip himself apart than ask a single thing of her, and that alarming romantic type of hers having made her incapable of paying attention to the fight was CHAT NOIR'S fault, or how else could she be a flawless queen?

That episode is AWFUL lol

And she never even learned anything at any point. She still considered Monarch finding out Chat's identity irrelevant in Elation bc one "No" in over 4 seasons was enough for her to almost agree turning into his enemy and give Monarch Chat's identity herself so she can know what name his lips are attached to. An akumatization CHAT had to prevent by kissing her despite not wanting it.

Amazing, what a role model for girls.

And at the end of season 5 Chat Noir still was the human sacrifice because Adrien knew he has no right to ask for help from Ladybug bc she's all that matters, but at least he could tell Plagg that Ladybug will "forgive him" and he'll be Chat Noir again.

Magnificent. Feminism truly peaked with Marinette Dupain-Cheng.

What value does she see in him again beyond her comfort and endless moral free passes and rewards for barely giving a damn? Because I truly can't figure out what Marinette's oh so pure love for her Kitty is actually supposed to be. The more I look into it, the more superficial Marinette's side of Ladynoir and Marichat becomes.

Writers really dropped the ball on the one thing their show was hinging on huh.

Thank you for your ask!

[nothingtherefornow]

New theory about Miraculous World London : Maybe I was wrong, and the "two" antagonist are not different people, but one and the same, and none other than .....

... Adrien Agreste

At first I didn't pay attention to those who theorise that this dude who discovered Bug Noir's secret identity by spying on her after her fight against Monarch :

Could be an akumatized version of Adrien, because the silhouette looked indeed similar to Adrien's body building

But then I also noticed how the mysterious figure who steals Marinette's earings and black cat ring from her, and whom I assumed to be Lila who akumatized herself, does have a body build that's not similar at all to Lila's silhouette, but looks actually more like Adrien's, Luka's or Felix's :

There's also that short glimpse in the trailer where we see Chronobug in the burrow escaping with a book that seemingly belong to the mysterious blue figure who figured out her secret identity

And this takes place where Adrien and Kagami were kept prisonner and "safe" by their respective parents.

Still ... I couldn't imagine Adrien being the one to looks for Ladybug's secret identity, potentially giving it to Lila, given the fact that we see BOTH mysterious villains in Lila's lair, and then stealing Marinette's miraculous from her after seeing how losing all the other miraculous to Felix and Monarch the first time traumitized her. But then ... I remember one other instance where Adrien did try to steal Marinette's miraculous from her.

When he was Chat Blanc ... alone and full of sorrow and despair and thinking that the Wish was the only thing that could fix the broken world he was all lonely in.

And I also guessed that if Adrien were to be ever akumatized by Chrysalis, he wouldn't necessarily know that the new butterfly wielder is Lila herself, and thus somoene who hates his lady and girlfriend guts. Changing identities is Lila's thing after all, all she would have to do is to pretend to be on Adrien's side and promise not to harm Marinette in order to succesfully manipulate him, because that's something that I found curious about the mysterious being stealing Marinette's Miraculous while she's sleeping

How carefull he/she is not to wake her up, which could just be for safety measures, or for another random reason. Notheless whoever he/she is they leave Marinette alone and sleeping after stealing what they wanted, given that the synopsis clearly specifies that Marinette only discovers that her miraculous has been stolen after waking up and seeing the light of a wish being made from a distance.

And that's something I cannot see Lila doing, to not jump at the chance to further hurt Marinette by gloating in front of her and exposing her absolute defeat and Lila's full victory to her face before making a wish

Which left only one question in my mind, what reasons Adrien could ever have to let himself be akumatized by the new Butterfly, stealing the miraculous from his lady, and eitehr making a wish himself or letting who he doesn't know to be Lila making that wish ?

To answer this question, three elements caught my attention :

First, Adrien's reaction in the trailer upon which seems to be learning of his father's death :

Adrien is clearly full of hurt and sorrow in that scene, something which we would not have imagined seeing given the more serene Adrien than the we see in the season 5 epilogue.

Second, The fact that instead of going back to his wielder, despite how Adrien would need a lot of confort after all of that, Plagg instead stayed with Marinette, even letting her wearing his miraculous

And finally, Another synopsis shared about the Special London, and more precisely, the passage that I underlined in yellow :

" In this new episode, Ladybug must make a crucial decision, which will lead to an unexpected twist that fans won't see coming."

This teasing sentence is the core of my theory, here it goes :

According to my new theory, This special London might take place in a timeline where Marinette chose to tell the truth to Adrien, to tell him that Gabriel Agreste died as the supervillain Monarch instead of a hero who helped stop Monarch.

The truth of course didn't bode well with Adrien, who would then feel guilty about the fact that his father may have been indirectly killed because of him, because of Chat Noir's cataclysm.

Which would then explain why Plagg doesn't directly go back to Adrien aftermath and and stays with Marinette instead, because the kwami knows that his presence would be a cruel a reminded of Chat Noir's indirect involvment in Monarch's death

And this would explain how Lila armed with the butterfly miraculous could ever akumatize Adrien and convince him to help her discover Ladybgu's secret identity and steal the miraculous from her, with the promise of a wish that would erase all the cause of Adrien's suffering by creating a new world.

Because what's the point of livign in a world where his father was the supervillain who hurt so many, a world where he is indirectly responsible for his father's death ?

At some point Chronobug will have to travel to the past to stop that mysterious time blue supervillain to figure out her secret identity, and if that person is revealed to be Adrien, Marinette would also have to ensure that the boy never fall prey to Chrysalis's manipulation and false promises. And the solution that will prsent itself to her is to lie to Adrien about his father

It's not the first time that Marinette deviates from the path toward the future adult Bunnix came from, because when she succesfully gave Adrien a gift with her real name on it, that was when the dooemed Chat Blanc timeline was created, Marinette wasn't supposed to have been successfull in giving that gift with Adrien knowing it was from her. So maybe she's not supposed either to tell Adrien the truth right now, in a time when he would be too vulnerable to an akumatization from Chrysalis.

What do you all think about it ?