#and my favorite trope of all time. dooming the world just to save one person YESSSS

[kimdokjas]

We are alive. And we will continue living. So long as you remain by my side.

[sombredancer]

Asian dramas and Love tropes

There are my favorite characters and their love stories as a list. Enemies to lovers

Drama: Her Royal Highness/长公主在上 Characters: Gu Xuanqing x Li Yunzhen Screentime: Main A boy is sent to be a servant in the unruly princess`s palace in order to find some dirt about her and to help his master to overthrown her, but something goes wrong... The HE is attached.

Drama: The Legends/招摇 Characters: Li Chenlan x Lu Zhaoyao Screentime: Main A leader of a demonic sect died trying to get demonic sword. Her soul returns to the world full of wish to get revenge on the current leader of her sect, who, as she thinks, killed her in the past. Found the way to be close to him, she learns that he wasn't the reason of her death and, moreover, desperately in love with her for many-many years. This is an adaptation of the novel "Ostentatious Zhaoyao", which I love more than a drama, but it's a good story in both variants. The HE is attached (although it`s a little bit obscure in the drama).

Drama: Till the End of the Moon/ 长月烬明 Characters: Tantai Jin x Li Susu Screentime: Main A boy who is destined to become a Demon God and to destroy the World tries to fight his doom. In a process, he falls in love with a transmigrator, who was sent 500 years back in the past to prevent his transformation into a Demon God. The irony is,making him falling in love is the only way to kill him for good... It`s an adaptation of the novel "Black Moonlight Holds the BE Script", which I like way-way-way more than the drama, not the least because the drama has BE and the novel has HE. I just watched it as a visually beautiful fanfic to the novel.

Drama: Love Between Fairy and Devil /苍兰诀 Characters: Dongfang Qingcang x Xiao Lanhua Screentime: Main My favorite drama of all times! Trying to save her love, a girl accidently falls into a secret prison for immortal criminals, revives the most fearsome demon of all times and heals his ability to feel. Later, forced to spend his time together with the girl from the enemy camp, the demon finds out that he actually likes her... The HE is attached. I wrote A LOT about them and made recap of the whole drama from the point of their relationship development in these posts: one, two, three, four, five and six.

Drama: My Journey to You /云之羽 Characters: Gong Shangjue x Shangguan Qian Screentime: Secondary In order to destroy the martial artist's clan, a female assassin was sent in there. While she is trying to seduce one of clan's young masters, he tries to expose her lies, but, eventually, falls in love with her. Unrequited. Maybe. This story has an open ending. My analysis of their relationship is here.

Drama: Butterflied lover /风月变 Characters: Ling Changjin x Bao Zhu Screentime: Secondary A wicked nobleman marries a princess because of her miraculous blood: it`s able to bring his zombie sister back to life. The princess allows him to treat her bad because she has been in love with him for a long time and believes he is a good person. Bit by bit he starts believe in it himself and begins to cherish his wife more... The ending is obscure (in a traditional Chinese way).

Drama: The Blue Whisper /与君初相识 Characters: Li Shu x Xue Sanyue Screentime: Minor A cat demon prince infiltrates the valley of demon hunters in order to set free the great demoness, but falls in love with one of demon hunters. Mutually. The ending is traditionally Chinese - they met again in another life. Т_Т

Drama: Immortal Samsara / 沉香如屑 Characters: Xuan Ye x Ran Qing Screentime: Minor An Asura king infiltrates the Heavenly Realm in order to steal the artifact that can help him conquering the world. The keeper of this artefact is a brave and honest goddess and he can't help but fall in love with her. After, he needs to choose: to be with his lover or to rule the world. He wants all at once, but there is no way to get it all. No HE for this pair. Pride and Prejudice

Drama: Lighter and Princess / 点燃我 Characters: Li Xun x Zhu Yun Screentime: Main A girl from a rich family with an anxious type of attachment falls in love with her classmate from a poor family with an avoidant type of attachment and tries to win his heart. It`s a problematic ship in a full meaning of these words and I like it this way. Yummy! The HE is attached.

Drama: Derailment /脱轨 Characters: Qi Lian x Jiang Xiaoyuan Screentime: Main A boy accidently meets his school sweetheart after many years of radio silence and understands that something is wrong with her. It turns out that her body is occupied by a transmigrator from a parallel world. At first he hates transmigrator for replacing his lover, but bit by bit he learns, that a transmigrator has not only the same appearance but the same habits and way of thinking, and falls in love with this new personality again... The story ends with HE but not in a way that you may think it would.

Drama: The Love by Hypnotic /明月照我心 Characters: Li Qian x Li Mingyue Screentime: Main In order to build relationship between two countries an emperor arranges marriage for his son. His fiancée is from a barbaric tribe: she is good at horse riding and archery, but knows nothing about palace etiquette and ladies stuff. It`s a light and sweet story about finding a path to each other's heart. The HE is attached.

Drama: The Long Ballad /长歌行 Characters: Hao Du x Li Leyan Screentime: Secondary A tsundere of a low background with a poker face does his ruthless job in a court, that's why a young princess thinks he is an awful man and is scared of him. But in reality he is a loyal servant and son and, moreover, secretly in love with the princess, who can't stand him... The HE is attached.

Drama: Miss the Dragon /遇龙 Characters: Xue Qianxun x Qingqing Screentime: Secondary A very naïve bird demon girl accidently meets a tsundere god of netherworld and turns his well ordered life into havoc. He starts liking it, though. The HE is attached. Forbidden love

Drama: A Frozen Flower /쌍화점 Characters: Hong Rim x No Guk Screentime: Main A gay king needs a heir, so he forces his lover to conceive a child with a queen. In a process, a boy, who was groomed as a king's lover from his childhood, finds out that he likes women much more than men. A traditional Korean tragedy. Very beautiful and full of feelings, though. (No GIFs because they all would be erotic ones).

Drama: 100 Days My Prince /백일의 낭군님 Characters: Moo-yeon x Kim So-hye Screentime: Secondary An assassin who is working for a wicked court official is secretly in love with a wife of a crown prince, who happens to be a daughter of the killer of his parents. Forbidden love doubles! But it's mutual, unfortunately for him. It's a very beautiful and full of desperation and feelings story. No HE, we die like Koreans. More detailed story of their relationship is available here, here and here.

Drama: The Yin-Yang Master: Dream of Eternity/晴雅集 Characters: He Shouye x Zhang Ping Screentime: Secondary A woman, who is destined to restrain the undying evil within her body for eternity in solitude, falls in love with Yin-Yang master. Her love is mutual, but her lover can't be with her forever, so he leaves with her his guardian demon to brighten her loneliness. Protecting her for ever starts being the only goal of demon's life... A tragedy, but a beautiful one.

Drama: The Legends/招摇 Characters: Gu Hanguang x Shen Qianjin Screentime: Minor "The Legends" once more! The main doctor of a demonic sect is in love with a leader of a righteous sect. A girl is not allowed to love anyone, otherwise she will suffer from the poison, so he anonymously sends her packages of medicinal herbs. She is curious about anonymous sender, too. But nothing can be kept in secret forever... Unfortunately, no HE for these two. In the novel he is safe and sound, but he has no love plotline at all. So is a price of love Т_Т.

I will talk about my other favorite characters and tropes in the next post.

[everlasting-rainfall]

I didn't see anywhere that requests are closed, so I was wondering if you could write something for your pages au with Boa Hancock? She's my favorite female character, so thank you!

Okay so I’m gonna have to come clean about something and it’s that I haven’t yet reached Amazon Lily like most of my knowledge about One Piece characters comes from a lot of outside sources and for why I haven’t reached it yet?

That’s a simple answer as I have a very bad attention span so if I’m not watching with a friend then my brain wanders and suddenly the episode is over but I promise that I’ll do my absolute best to write her for you!

As Boa is honestly a really cool character like she isn’t my favorite female character as that honor goes to Rouge a lot of the time but I do love that girl regardless!

So before I start rambling too much and making an absolute fool out of myself, let’s get into it. Yeah?

Also since I do know what Boa’s backstory is, I can’t see her trying to actively force someone into a relationship but she is probably willing to keep them if it means they’re safe

!-MINORS DO NOT INTERACT AT ALL-!

!-POTENTIAL TRIGGER WARNINGS-!

Manipulation, Copying of Work, Workplace Sexism, Implied Homophobia (?), Delusions, Kidnapping (?)

!-POTENTIAL TRIGGER WARNINGS-!

!-MINORS DO NOT INTERACT AT ALL-!

Okay so let’s imagine that you wrote a book, it was a romance novel of course and it was pretty good like it didn’t sell well but it was seen as pretty good by those who did read it

But about a year later while you’re working on the sequel story that you managed to convince the publisher to give you, something happens as a book is released into the market that looks so much like yours except… bad…

The main character on the cover is grossly sexualized when they’re supposed to be someone that the reader can project themselves onto and the two love interests have basically been turned into big muscle men with no personality compared to how you had them as powerful women with quite a lot of personality and complex backstories that helped to shape their characters

You took some time to read it and found yourself absolutely disgusted with it as it was exactly your book just if every trope from R/MenWritingWomen was stuck onto it, certain important plot points were changed and romantic scenes were either completely changed or removed

Attempting to talk to the publisher didn’t do anything as they simply told you that your book hadn’t been copied and clearly you were seeing things if you thought that… You should just get back to what you were writing and be quiet about it…

This was humiliating but there wasn’t much you could do except hope that your next book would absolutely blow this gross copy out of the water especially as when the reviews came in, you found that most people loved it with very people pointing out that it was a gross copy of you

Eventually when you did release your sequel book, it had some moderate success but not as much as the copy… It was truly discouraging…

When you tried to ask your publisher to at least push it a bit more with advertising, they were reluctant but decided to do it in the end to just get to be quiet so they started doing some advertising on other islands and quite a few people picked up the book

Your book achieved more success! It was great!

Soon enough, word of this book had reached Amazon Lily and it was raising quite a few eyebrows in interest as although it did have a few male characters in it but the story and what they heard about it was truly what interested them

A female marine captain saving the MC from certain doom at the hands of pirates by holding them close with one arm and defending them with the other even despite their injuries? A pirate captain who promised to give the MC the world and much more if she would simply take that first step and set out to sea with them on their ship?

All these things that they were hearing were quite interesting and after hearing about one scene in particular where both of the love interests put aside their differences to save the MC from a dragon? Interests peaked!

So a request from so many was given to Boa as they asked her to please make it so that a shipment of the specific book would be sent to Amazon Lily, it took her a bit but she soon made a request and sent it out

The publisher picked it up and within the week, a small shipment of the book had been delivered to Amazon Lily. So many were excited to read the book that they had heard about but there was one problem with it…

This wasn’t the book that they expected, everyone was so confused as the book was awful to the point where most dropped it within the first few minutes of reading it as what had been delivered wasn’t your book but instead the copy

When Boa found out about this, it was safe enough to say that she was quite irritated as in all honesty based on the way that the story had been described to her

She was getting excited to read it as well only for this to be what was delivered so she had the shipment be taken back away from their island alongside a message detailing how disgusted she was and how she demanded every last beli that she spent on this shipment to be refunded or there would be hell to pay

Of course, the publishers listened as who wants an angry pirate empress after them? But they fucked up yet again and instead of realizing that they sent the wrong book, they gave you the message thinking your book had disgusted the women of Amazon Lily that badly

Upon reading the entirety of the message, your heart sank and you got ready to reply as you started writing an apology along with an explanation of what had happened

You took your own personal copy of the book at home and attached the apology to it alongside a gift before sending it to Boa Hancock herself who almost threw it away the second that she saw it until she noticed the cover and stopped

A close look at the cover revealed that this was the true version of the story as there was the MC laying down in the bed of flowers with her hands clasped with the pirate captain laying facing towards her on her left with a red rose in hand while the marine was laying on the opposite side with a blue rose in hand

This was not the same story… The title was even different so she sighed and decided to at least give it’s first page a read to see if it was truly different…

It was and she found herself hooked, she read through the entire thing and couldn’t stop a smile at the scenes that you had written alongside the part where the pirate captain and marine saving you from a greedy dragon despite the fact that they may fail? It was lovely

When finishing the book, she took another look at the note accompanied with the book and reread the explanation. She was honestly unsurprised about learning the truth and set it aside before opening the gift

It was the only piece of merch to ever exist for the book and it was because you had made it yourself only to give it to her as a truly sincere apology, it was a pair of fake roses with their stems tied together. A red rose and a blue rose tied together with a lovely white ribbon, a physical version of the books very last illustration

Part of her was touched by this and in all honesty, she found herself thinking about it for a good while as you had taken the fall for the shoddy knock off created by the gross imitator and the publishers hadn’t even been willing to help you sort things out

It was downright deplorable in her personal opinion and she knew that you weren’t the MC from the story but part of her started to feel like she wanted to rescue you

Rescue you from your life dealing with the publisher on that island where no one would ever appreciate your work just like how the MC had been rescued from the dragon, she would keep you safe and keep you in a place with people who actually appreciate your work and wouldn’t just disregard it in favor of someone’s fantasy

She would keep you safe from the prying eyes of anyone who wanted to harm you, she wouldn’t even let anyone brand you as theirs and do horrible unspeakable acts to you

If you wanted then the two of you could even become friends and maybe potentially something more which she grew to like the thought of more and more until she started to imagine the two of you going on nice walks together, laughing together and having fun

Ah yes, that was the life that would be perfect for you in the end…

All that she needed to do was get you here and she knew exactly the way to go about it…

It was a few weeks after sending your own letter when you received one from Boa Hancock, it was a request to come to Amazon Lily with copies of your book as she no longer trusted the publisher to send them the right ones

She also requested for you to bring your things as well as she would like you to stay on the island for an undisclosed amount of time, you didn’t want to potentially make the pirate empress any angrier than she already was so you packed some things and took a large box full of book copies of the first book and the sequel and headed off

A few days were spent at sea before you finally reached your destination, you were greeted and the books were quickly taken off of your hands in order to be enjoyed by everyone who had been so excited to read it

Meanwhile you were taken off to meet with Boa herself, she was a scary lady and more than intimidating but she was kind to you despite everything and had a smile on her face when you offered her the sequel story

Your time on Amazon Lily started on that very day, a lot of it would be spent with Boa simply spending time together as she took her time getting through the sequel story as she always stopped to ask you questions about it

As time progressed however and Boa continued to read the story, she found that it was wrapped up in the end with a neat little bow and the person the MC chose got married in the end. The MC had wound up marrying the pirate in the end and symbolically tied a ribbon around the stem of a red rose as a sign that they would always be together

Boa found herself enjoying the scene of the wedding and she smiled to herself as she reread the chapter only to notice certain things this time around like how the pirate had her hair done in a similar fashion to Boa’s and not only that but the way that the outfit was described? It sounded like her…

Part of her tried to write the entire thing of as a simple coincidence until she reread the line “The beauty of the two was so strong that it could turn anyone who laid eyes upon them to stone”

…Oh my god…

That was all that Boa needed to see and she quickly closed the book and set it aside, she honestly wasn’t sure what to think as this couldn’t be a coincidence anymore as the one who had won over the MC in the end was a Pirate Captain who would do anything for her…

It couldn’t have been just a coincidence now and she had to be sure that you didn’t write about some sort of deep hidden feeling for her… So she picked up the other book and spent quite a bit of time searching it for answers…

And as they say, if you’re looking for something hard enough then you’re gonna find it regardless of whether or not it’s there

Slowly Boa becomes convinced that you wrote about some sort of feeling that you had for her despite the fact that you could have never known her before this point…

And she would confront you about this, she would tell you off for doing this and make you leave but something in her refuses to do so

You don’t see Boa for days as she deals with these emotions, you aren’t sure why this has happened but you don’t bother her simply thinking that she’s busy while she attempts to figure out what’s going on

Until it hits her… She returns your feelings…

And when this happens, this is when things start as she starts to attempt to show you that she feels the exact same way about you that you do her

It starts with her trying to spend more time with you, it progresses into her getting jealous when other people speak with you, it progresses even further to her actually touching you with hand holding and the occasional caress

When it reaches its peak? That’s when Boa starts to greet you with a red flower of some kind whenever the two of you meet, she hopes that you’ll get the hint and finally realize

But hey, it’s not so bad that you aren’t getting it as your smile is heavenly to her to the point where she could look at it all day and has even caught herself staring at your smile for long periods of time when the two of you are together only breaking out of it when you point it out to her

Eventually you’ll start wanting to return home and back to your old life but Boa will insist that you stay, the world off of Amazon Lily is dangerous for someone like you after all and she wants to keep you right where she can absolutely make sure that you’re safe

You might try to insist on returning to your old life and that’s when Boa will start to manipulate you, I can’t see her turning violent but she probably would tell you things like “If something were to happen to you out there then I simply wouldn’t be able to live with myself”

She’ll trap you into staying on Amazon Lily this way until you’re ready to stay of your own accord…

It’s for the best after all and once you finally realize that she returns the feelings that you oh so clearly have for her, everything will be perfect…

A pair whose beauty is strong enough to turn people to stone…

[bubbipond]

To date, my favorite 4 Minute replay we see is Korn's at the end. I think his 4 minutes was the best because it doesn't focus on one major event. He doesn't focus on saving Kla's brother, being better to Great, or turning away from his family and the business. He in retrospect chooses them all in his 4 minutes. Going back to that moment with Kla would rewrite everything because he and Tonkla would be in totally different situations. Maybe he would not go so far into his father's business, maybe he would have the ability to not hold slight hostility towards Great, maybe he could live normally and without massive guilt. He went far back enough to a place where they were all ignorant to what would eventually be a massive blow to their respective lives. 4 Minutes at its core is about choices and how they affect us. The choices we make are markers in our lives that can shift our perceptions and personalities. These are choices we have to live with, regret, overthink, and move on from. The question is, can the couples?

The show answered that too. Great and Tyme were good people who learned to be apathetic to the world and others. But they never truly made choices that they couldn't eventually live with. Korn and Tonkla were doomed from the beginning of their awkwardly balanced relationship. They were the only two main characters that could not live with their choices. Tonkla would never truly be happy even if Korn finally came out and declared him his boyfriend because he already lost the one most important thing to him. Korn didn't even like his job, was constantly exhausted, and bitter about choices that were made for him. If he truly loved Kla, his way of showing it was terrible, and watching his rewrite of their time together made it more heartbreaking. Which was why it was so easy for Kla to find someone else to alter that dynamic. The love and affection he received from Korn felt wrong in comparison to what he was to Korn, a sugar baby. Asking for raw sex is something you (typically) do with someone you trust and are faithful to. But Korn couldn't give him that because he was not faithful and they'd never truly be together in this life.

The Korn we see in the present does not realize just how much of a bad guy he is. He's stepped too far into his father's world and can't get out. From the jump, he liked the power imbalance but when Kla finally broke it, their worlds unraveled. Great was eventually willing to give up the comfort of the money and life he lived with. While Korn was never going to and when he finally realized that his place with his father really was nothing, it was too late to turn around. It was too late to say I am going to be a better person. Both he and Kla were cursed with the oldest sibling trope, the kids who have to fall into a specific role whether they like it or not. The biggest tragedy in my opinion isn't that they died, it's that 4 minutes Korn sees. The person he and Tonkla could have been if he had made a different choice. It's the realization a part of him really did love Tonkla but he was never strong enough to choose him and that played a part in their demise.

[disgracefulthings]

Hello..If you don't mind me asking, can I ask, what are your top 7 (or top 10) favorite media (can be books/ manga/ anime/movies/tv series/etc) and your top 10 favorite (fictional) characters from any media? Why do you love them all? Sorry if you've answered this questions before......

Thanks for asking! Be warned, long post

For media in no particular order:

Code Geass - Great male lead and phenomenal ending. Has that anime trope of too many love interests with little personality, but still has some really good female characters (Nunnally and Euphemia are amazing). The Lelouch and Suzaku relationship is just how I like it - filled with many complicated feelings

Scum Villain Self Saving System - As someone who loves fanfiction, I think Scum Villain is a must read. MXTX really shows her understanding of fandoms in the story. Shen Yuan is an amazing main character, his chaotic thoughts and his lack of understanding of everything makes him really funny, and I love learning more about the characters around him as they become more real to him

Puss in Boots: The Last Wish - Just a really great movie. Great characters and villains, you don't need me to tell you why it's amazing

Infinity Train - Gone too soon. Therapy train that forces you to get better or it kills you, a great idea for a kids TV show! It honestly was a really good show that showed people going through realistic issues, and have them try to be better, though the protagonists are never perfect and can and will fail. I will never forgive HBO for cancelling it

Gravity Falls - Being in the Gravity Falls fandom while this show was coming out was really fun. I loved all the theories and seeing which ones came true. Great characters and villains, and I can't wait to see what Alex Hirsch comes out with next

Hannibal (TV Series) - A great rom-com with some delicious looking food. Also Will has 7 dogs, 10/10 show

The Mandalorian (First 2 Seasons) - Got me into Star Wars. Tired gun dad and little gremlin baby carry the show, and I love watching Mando slowly learn Star Wars lore

Iron Man - Favorite Marvel movie. It does so many things right, I don't care if the main villain makes their own iron Man suite and fights Tony using his own power, that wasn't an annoying Marvel trope yet, and Iron Man does that trope the best. Stane actually has a personal relationship with the main character so we can feel Tony's betrayal when he learns what Stane has done. Also it has Phil Coulson, so 10/10

My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom! - This show is just hilarious, I don't care if Catarina ends up with any of her love interests, I just love all of the characters (except Keith, I'm not a fan of 'I can't believe it's not incest' type ships)

Epithet Erased - Criminally underrated. The story takes place in a world where some people have specific words attached to their souls called epithets that give them power. The series has many amazing characters, but mostly follows Molly, a little girl whose epithet is 'dumb'. She is forced to grow up after losing her mother, and is made to do things 10 year olds shouldn't know how to do, like taxes. It's an amazing series that can be very heartwarming and funny, but also very tragic. Please watch!!!

And now my favorite characters, this time in order:

1. Shang Qinghua, Scum Villain Self Saving System - I love this pathetic hamster man. You can see parts of himself in the characters he wrote, and while his backstory isn't as tragic as most of the other characters, it is still very relatable and sad. He has really great chemistry with many of the characters, so he can be fun to write. He is my best friend and I would kill for him

2. Loki, Marvel - I'm a young adult woman on Tumblr, of course I love Loki. His characterization has kinda gone out the window since Thor Ragnarok, but he's still very charming and funny

3. Sesshomaru, Inuyasha (and only Inuyasha. Final Act made some questionable choices for the character, and I refuse to acknowledge Yasahime's existence, may it burn in hell) - I love the trope of redeeming a character by giving them a child. Sesshomaru's character growth throughout the story was fun to watch, and I love the fact that even though he has 1 arm, he doesn't hesitate to punch his brother in the face. The show ends without resolving anything, but at least it doesn't ruin the relationship he had with his father, gives his arm back in a stupid way, and changes his relationship with Rin in a creepy way. Nope, none of that happened

4. Yakushi Kabuto, Naruto - I loved this nerd since he was introduced, and the fact that he was given a tragic backstory near the end of Naruto just made me love him even more. He's a healer that uses his abilities to harm others, and I love that for him

5. Pythor P. Chumsworth, Ninjago - Best villain in the show. It doesn't always handle his character well, but his motivation for revenge is very tragic and I wished the show acknowledged it. His release with Lloyd was fun in ep. 4, and I wished they had a reconciliation. Still, he was fun throughout the show

6. Natural Harmonia Gropius, Pokemon - I love the idea of a character that can understand Pokemon, and he has a compelling arc in the games and anime. I love villains who do the wrong things for the right reasons, and also have good relationships with the people he's apposing

7. Mitth'raw'nuruodo, Star Wars (specifically when he's written by Timothy Zahn) - He's too smart for his own good and can be a little shit, but he also holds importance to the life around him, even though he's on the Empire's side. I love my morally grey characters

8. Discord, My Little Pony - I watched the entire show just because I liked one character, and it was worth it. I love my chaotic gods

9. Kumoko, So I'm a Spider, So What? - I love shows where we watch a protagonist get new abilities. Kumoko is very silly and chaotic, and while she seems nice, she wouldn't hesitate to commit atrocities

10. Lan Qiren, The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation - I just think he's funny

[true-blue-megamind]

I have a question/theory. No one besides Roxanne and Megamind knows that Metro Men is actually still alive. For all everybody else knows Megamind still murdered their hero.

Of course, Megamind saved them from Titan, and made amends by returning everything he stole and fixing the destroyed city but it still was all directly or indirectly his fault.

This brings me to my next point. No one except Megamind, Roxanne, Minion, and Hal himself knows that Titan was ''created'' by our favorite blue alien.

Do you think people might be angry when they somehow find out the truth? Maybe some Metro Man fanboy or fangirl will want to avenge the fallen hero?

Or are we to assume that people are just stupid and shallow and are just happy to have a new hero? Because if that's the case it's kind of sad from Metro Man's perspective. People only liked him because of his powers and looks. What do you think?

MEGAMIND FAN THEORY THURSDAY: Do People Think Megamind is a Murderer?

It’s time again for another Megamind Fan Theory! Special thanks, once again, to our unnamed contributor! Apparently, Anonymous is my biggest fan! LOL!

And now, even though Metroman threatens to frame me next every time I say it: SPOILER WARNING!

If you’ve seen the movie Megamind—and I sincerely hope you have—you already know that one of the biggest ways the film subverts common superhero tropes is by having the Bad Guy apparently win. Of course, we all know that Metroman didn’t really die in the Death Ray blast, but the question is: do people in Metro City know it, too? After all, most or all of the citizenry thought they saw their former hero perish on a live stream. Do they, therefore, still believe their new Defender is guilty of murder? And if so, shouldn’t that affect the way they perceive him? There are entire reams of fan theories examining such questions. Let’s jump into a few of the most popular!

It’s Almost Certain Some People Know Metroman is Alive

The first fan theory centers on the simple fact that Megamind is not locked away in a high-security prison. His ability to take up the mantle of Defender and move about the city freely indicates that he very probably received a full pardon. That brings up the question of whether defeating one supervillain would truly be enough to counteract a first-degree murder charge and eighty-three live sentences. Most fans say no, leading to the supposition that there must have been some sort of trial and subsequent pardon. As a result, many believe that some high-ranking government officials and judges, at least, must be aware that Metroman remains very much alive.

They may not be the only ones. Another popular concept among fans is that Megamind’s reality, like the comics it lampoons, could boast a wide variety of heroes and villains. (It’s not a far fetched assumption; as mentioned in Where Did the Doom Syndicate Come From, we know that there are supposed to be other supervillains in Megamind’s world. It therefore seems probable that there would be other superheroes as well.) In fact, more than a few fans subscribe to the headcanon that a heroic organization exists, offering mutual support and help to caped protectors as needed. Over time, the Megamind fandom has invented several potential titles for this group. One of my personal favorites is the Defenders’ League—a name which plays on DC Comics’ Justice League and thus maintains the original film’s spirit of toying with existing superhero tropes. For the sake of simplicity, that is how I will refer to this association.

Why am I bringing it up? As you may have guessed, many fans theorize that at least some members of the Defenders’ League know their former compatriot didn’t really meet his end. However, there are differing opinions upon exactly how many of them are aware of this fact. Some suggest that Defenders, like their Justice League counterparts, are likely cognizant of a great number of each others’ secrets, up to and including their identities and hideouts. They argue that it therefore seems reasonable to assume most or all of the League would have been apprised of the Metroman situation. As possible evidence, supporters of this theory point to the fact that other heroes aren’t coming out of the proverbial woodwork to avenge their supposedly fallen comrade.

Nonetheless, others disagree. The second—and possibly more popular—supposition is that, while a few leaders within the Defenders’ League know the truth, others may be in the dark. Those who prefer this concept argue that Metroman’s abandonment of his duties would almost certainly have been frowned upon, adding that the former hero would likely have found himself either faced with some sort of disciplinary action or pressured into taking up the role of protector for a new city. After all, such powerful Defenders can hardly be common, and it seems extremely doubtful that Superhero is a job one could easily quit. Indeed, during discussions with other fans such as CrazyDreamer6, the possibility has arisen that other Defenders may initially neither like nor trust Megamind. It’s even been suggested that an especially antagonistic hero or two might attempt to sabotage the blue man’s efforts, believing their action to be either punishment for Metroman’s alleged fate or a means to uncovering Megamind as a presumed fraud.

Whatever the case may be, all of this still does not necessarily mean that the general public would be privy to Metroman’s continued existence. It’s highly unlikely that the Defenders’ League would make that fact widely known even if they were all privy to it. (Imagine the backlash and potential public relations nightmare that might ensue if people realized a Defender had simply walked off the job!) Furthermore, another Megamind fan theory suggests that, as a former supervillain, the blue man’s hearing may have been far more similar to a military tribunal than a civilian court case. This is important because it means the Megamind’s trial may have been far less public and far more secretive. Some argue that this indicates it’s unlikely most ordinary citizens would be aware that Metroman’s supposed murder was proved to be a farce. People would certainly be aware that he had been pardoned, but they might not know all of the reasons why.

Would Metroman Even Want His “Death” to Be Questioned?

This is where another Megamind fan theory comes into play. Some contend that, even if various officials did not choose to disclose it, citizens may have become aware that Metroman was alive because he himself may have told them. In several fictions, the former Defender is portrayed as coming forward, announcing his official retirement, and sometimes even helping his new blue replacement to learn the ropes. Such would definitely be the noble, honest thing to do—and aren’t those two traits superheroes are supposed to personify? Besides, many fans also point out that there appears to be an odd friendship between Megamind and his rival. There seems to have been a “time out” agreement, indicating that their battles may have been more like games and public shows. Additionally, Metroman calls the blue super-genius “Little Buddy.” That hardly seems like a sincerely antagonistic relationship. So it’s conceivable that the former Defender might have come forward to clear his replacement’s name.

Many fans, however, argue that such a thing may not have been possible for the same reasons that the majority of the Defenders’ League may not have been informed. It doesn’t seem particularly likely that people would react well to learning that their trusted and beloved local hero had left them in the hands of a know supervillain so that he go start a music career. Furthermore, it’s possible that the former Defender could have been harassed by rising villains eager to prove their worth as well city governments desperate for a hero of their own. Nonetheless, many suggest that Wayne Scott may have had excellent reasons for hanging up his cape. In the post Why Did Metroman Retire, we examined evidence that Metro City had become too dependent upon having a superpowered Defender around, leading to laxness in law enforcement and constant demands on the white-clad alien. (For example, one unused storyboard shows police refusing to assist in even a small way because they are “on break” as well as an old woman calling for Metroman’s help because she can’t open a jar.) As a result, the former hero may have become not only disenchanted with his role, but also stressed, exhausted, and mentally strained. Some have even proposed that he may have been nearing a breakdown, making his decision to quit a necessary one for his psychological health.

This leads to a supposition which answers one of our anonymous contributor’s questions. Many believe that, if most people still believe Metroman to be dead, it is because the former hero himself wants it that way. Far from being sorrowful about others’ reactions to his supposed demise, he may feel relieved. Imagine the guilt he might experience if people continued to mourn him or harmed Megamind because they believed he was guilty. Keep in mind that, as discussed in previous blog articles, we see the young Wayne Scott being essentially groomed to become a superhero during the school scene. (You can read more about that in the aforementioned post as well as The Warden.) Thus it seems likely that Metroman may not want his faked death to be disbelieved because he feels being supposedly dead is the only way to free himself from the role he was pushed into from childhood.

However, the choice may not have been up to him. There are some competing Megamind fan theories concerning whether or not the general public would believe Metroman was truly gone. Interestingly, both are based upon the character’s inspirations.

The first supposition points to the fact that Metroman is a clear parody of Superman. Clark Kent, as many of you likely know, hides his alternate identity by donning ordinary clothes and a pair of glasses. Some fans contend that, if Megamind’s reality functions similarly to the DC universe, then it’s unlikely Music Man would ever be recognized as being a former Defender. After all, if eyewear is enough to make Superman unrecognizable, then growing a beard would certainly do the trick. Others, however, dispute this, saying that while Clark Kent puts a great deal of effort into maintaining his persona as a quiet newspaper journalist, purposefully fading into the background as much as possible, Wayne Scott’s choice of career—rock star—puts him squarely in the public eye. Making himself the center of attention significantly increases his chances of being recognized.

The second fan theory draws on the other major influence of Metroman: Elvis Presley. As covered in Why Does Megamind Wear Black, the King of Rock and Roll inspired everything from Metroman’s look to the song he plays at his museum opening. Some have expanded upon this to suggest that people may have reacted similarly to the former hero’s supposed demise as they did to that of Elvis. For decades following Presley’s funeral, many of his fans insisted that he was not really dead and Elvis sightings popped up all over the place. Could Metroman’s dedicated aficionados have done the same, claiming to catch glimpses of their icon? If so, some of them were probably right. In short, it’s quite plausible that many citizens may not have believed Metroman was really deceased no matter what they had been told.

Psychology and Superheroes

What about those who actually do believe the former Defender to be gone? Given what we’ve discussed so far, it seems reasonable to suppose that there may be more than a few who fall into this category. If so, wouldn’t they be furious that Megamind could, apparently, commit murder on live TV and still not only get away with it but also be hailed as a hero? To answer that, let’s delve into a little psychology.

According to an article by Dr. Charlie Ebersole on Psychology Today, hero worship can be complicated and potentially problematic. When we look up to someone, we have a tendency to view them differently. “Heroes can be great,” Ebersole explains. “They can inspire us to be better versions of ourselves. However, they can also blind us to their faults.” Just as people were happy to overlook Metroman’s frankly braggartly behavior—just look at the museum opening scene near the beginning of the movie and you’ll see what I mean—they may be willing to forget about Megamind’s shaded past. Some might even make peace with the supposed blood on his hands if they looked up to him enough, and given that he literally saved the entire city from death and destruction, that’s not beyond the realm of possibility. To quote novelist Terry Pratchett, “You can be excused for just about anything if you are a hero because no one asks inconvenient questions.”

It doesn’t stop there, however, because Megamind isn’t only a hero, he’s also a celebrity. Another article, this one from Long Island Psychology, addresses how fame affects the way we perceive people. Society sometimes makes greater allowances for those who are well-known icons. For example, celebrities sometimes receive less severe punishments for infractions than an average citizen might. Of course, people can also judge those they admire very harshly, feeling a sense of betrayal any time that individual doesn’t live up to the nearly perfect standards they have created for them. However, if that same public feels they are getting enough out of their perceived parasocial relationship with a celebrity, they may entirely overlook any bad behavior. The article states that “even if their actions have run counter to their public persona or were illegal in some way, some celebrities are still able to overcome the backlash they may face.”

This really comes down to three things: the aforementioned parasocial relationship, charisma, and marketing. (Yes, I said marketing. We’ll get to that in just a moment.) Firstly, as I’ve said, Megamind saved Metro City, and it’s frankly doubtful whether most of its citizens know that Titan was the result of a misjudgment on the blue man’s part to begin with. (I think it’s also important to mention here that Megamind certainly didn’t want to create a dangerously superpowered man-child and seemed sincerely distraught when Titan turned evil. He truly thought the human was destined for heroism. You can read more about that in Why Did Megamind Choose Hal.) Regardless, the fact is that many citizens of Metro City owe the blue man their lives and presumably enjoy his continued protection. Thus it’s obvious that they are definitely getting a lot out of the parasocial relationship.

Secondly, it can’t be denied that Megamind is charismatic. He knows how to put on a good show and play to a crowd. (Just look at the scene where he finally becomes the new Defender if you want proof.) Furthermore, as seen throughout the movie, Megamind can be charming, funny, and kind. It’s hard not to like the alien genius, and that has likely helped him to win over the masses. The fact that he sincerely cares about the city and all its people, as evinced by the fact that he chose to overcome Titan rather than fleeing, probably helps as well. People often instinctively know when someone legitimately has their best interests at heart.

Finally, there is the marketing aspect to consider. That may sound a little odd, but hear me out. The aforementioned article states: “some celebrities are forgiven by the media, and the media’s reaction to the event shapes the future. If the celebrity is still placed in front of you on a daily basis and placed in a positive light, it becomes easier to forget about their past.” Essentially, it is possible to market a person, rebranding them in a more favorable light. This is important for two reasons. Firstly, as I said before, Megamind clearly cares about the people around him. That doubtlessly makes him a dedicated and earnest Defender, and people are likely to recognize that. Additionally, if they also see him performing acts of heroism in the media over and over again, that will have a natural effect on the way they perceive him.

Speaking of media, the second aspect of this is the simple fact that Megamind is clearly romantically involved with Roxanne Ritchi, and she happens to be a well-known television news journalist. She’s also one of the very few people whom we know for certain is aware that Megamind didn’t really murder Metroman. (In fact, according to the DVD commentary, he always went out of his way not to physically harm anyone even while he was a supervillain. The creators describe him engaging in no worse than theft and vandalism during his brief tenure as “Evil Overlord,” as well as staging his plots in unpopulated areas. Even his preferred setting on his De-Gun, Dehydrate, is nonlethal.) One popular fan theory suggests that, because Roxanne knows all of this and because she loves Megamind, she may have helped to sway public opinion in his favor. Furthermore, it’s plausible that, as a reporter, she may not have been able to pass up a juicy scoop like Metroman faking his own death. However, many fans believe that, if her lover and his former nemesis asked her to keep it quiet, she would. Either way, she would certainly have the skills and opportunities necessary to help Megamind “market” his new image. Of course, this doesn’t mean that it’s not possible some people would still dislike and distrust the Blue Defender, but it would certainly help him to be better accepted.

So, are there people in Metro City who still believe Megamind is guilty of murder? It’s possible, though that may depend on whether Metroman or government officials were willing to let the truth come out. Could such an assumption color the way he is viewed? It most certainly could. However, it’s also likely that even some of those who did believe in the blue man’s guilt may have gradually come to forgive him, especially since he was likely pardoned. Still, most agree that the answer is probably a combination of all of the above ideas, and suppose that the former villain may have to work through some complicated public relations issues in his early days as Defender. Perhaps the upcoming series, Megamind’s Guide to Defending Your City, will shed new light on that. Until then, we have plenty of fan theories to choose from! That ends this post! Thank you for reading this week’s Megamind Fan Theory Thursday!

[luvreyn]

My Manhwa List (2021) Part 8

This is a long time comingg! Hoping everyone’s well <3 Also, if anyone’s interested here’s my anilist https://anilist.co/user/reyndealgerobelia/ still in progress tho <3

The Snake and the Flower

Source: https://www.webtoons.com/en/historical/the-snake-and-the-flower/list?title_no=2619

Summary:

Long ago, an emperor suddenly decided to execute the members of his court. Only after being offered a girl named Aehwa, did the emperor’s rampage stop. The emperor cherishes his “flower” dearly. When Aehwa expresses an interest in music, the Emperor makes Harang Kang her personal court musician. However, the emperor decreed that only he can lay eyes on Aehwa and has Harang’s eyes destroyed. After finding out the true cause of his father’s death, Harang swears revenge on both Aehwa and the Emperor. In this twisted realm of snakes and flowers, who will prevail?

THOUGHTS AND WHY READ THIS

- art = 4.5/5

- plot = 5/5 

- the intrigue! the mystery!!

- i am so ready for the revelations!!

- also this is the first time i’ve encountered a blind ml 

- palace politics!!

- i can’t find an HD cover >.>

- I LOVE THE FL YAS GO GURL!!

- verdict: highly recommended!!

The Villainess Flips the Script

Summary:

I woke up inside my favorite novel, not as the protagonist, Luca Winterwald, but as Judith, his abusive aunt and the first character to die—time for a rewrite! I’ll hand Luca off to his loving, long-lost uncle as scripted, and then live my own life far from danger. At least, that was the plan. When his uncle arrives, Luca suddenly calls out, “Don’t leave!” Now, I must protect Luca from impending family tragedy, raise him to become the hero, and turn this villainess’s ending upside down!

THOUGHTS AND WHY READ THIS

- art = 5/5

- plot = 4.5/5

- saw some spoilers and yas i love it!!

- LUCA IS SO CUTE!! 

- fam bonds!!

- funny 

- THE ML <3

- FL is so pretty!!

- verdict: one of my must reads!

Happily Ever Afterwards

Source: https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/happily-ever-afterwards/list?title_no=2737

Summary:

What would you do if you were reborn as a character from your favorite romance novel? For Peony, an avid fan of “The Song of Askar,” the answer is simple: Marry her favorite character, of course! Reincarnated as the princess of the Kingdom of Garten, Peony is determined to marry Richt, the second male lead of “The Song of Askar” and former prince of the Fairspren Empire, who was banished to an inhospitable land after the novel’s happy ending (which didn’t end so well for him). Amidst trials and tribulations, can Peony and Richt make the most of their second chance at life and love?

THOUGHTS AND WHY READ THIS

- art = 4/5 is cute

- plot = 3.5/5 is cute 

- basically this is cute

- strawberries!!

- F U N N Y

- FL chasing the ML <3

- I CAN’T WAIT TIL HE DOES ALL THE BEGGING

- FL’s FAM IS SO SUPPORTIVE AND CUTE

- verdict, it’s just cute! 

Saving My Sweetheart

Source: https://tapas.io/episode/2210370

Summary:

Despite being the daughter of the Holy Empire’s most revered divine leader, Leticia is rumored to be a ruthless, bloodthirsty tyrant. The thing is… none of the rumors are true! After years of living as her vindictive mother’s scapegoat, Leticia is ultimately cursed to die if she doesn’t kill her beloved husband, King Ditrian, with her own two hands. But when the clock miraculously resets to mere days before their wedding, she gets a second chance to save not only Ditrian, but his entire kingdom. This time, will the world recognize the real Leticia before it’s too late, or is history doomed to repeat itself?

THOUGHTS AND WHY READ THIS

- art = 5/5

- plot = 5/5

- i cannot

- really the ML IS IN A LEAGUE OF HIS OWN

- HANDS DOWN 

- FL’s mom is hella abuse and should rot pls

- arrange marriage (a trope that never goes old)

- a new fav

- FL IS SO CUTE AND IT’S JUST SO TRAGIC MYGOODNESS

- VERDICT: A MUST READ!

A Beloved Existence

Summary:

Soyou, who received heart transplant surgery, discovered that the donated heart belongs to the father of a guy in her class! As they grow closer together, will they be able to help each other weather any storm?

THOUGHTS AND WHY READ THIS

- art = 4/5

- plot = 3/5 simple and cute

- MY CHILDREN

- ML IS PERFECT LIKE???

- H U M O R

- a new fav!!!!!

- so cute!!

- my babies deserves all the love in the world k

- ML’s side of the fam is trash!!! TRASH I TELL U WHY DID THEY EVEN EXIST (EXCEPT FOR HIS COUSIN)

- will warm your heart

- teary-eyed with a lot of scenes!!

- with life lessons!!

- P.S: YOU ARE A BELOVED EXISTENCE. YOU MATTER!!!

- Verdict: a must read!!

[o5-7-the-daughter]

For the questions, you talked about circular narrative / dead from the start characters before I think – is that related to the muses?

OOC answer:

It is, yes! I love the 'doomed/dead from the beginning' trope just as much as the 'growing into love' trope, which sure says a lot! /lh

The theme mainly presents within three characters from 565; James Peterson, Eight, and Willow.

James is pretty obvious on this, considering he is long dead already; Eight mentioned it when describing his death some time ago, but James was doomed the moment his anomaly started to manifest. He never had a chance to make it from that point on, not with his mother working for the Foundation, who obviously became increasingly curious about him over time. He was set to die before he was even born, in a way - Agnes joining the Foundation, becoming an Administrator and her subsequent use of 006 would lead to James's eventual anomaly, recruitment, and death. (Funfact: this 'event' is also why Overseers are strictly forbidden from having biological children nowadays)

Eight is my favorite of the muses filling this trope, for there simply is no good end to his story in this setting. The night he ran away from home as a teen was when his death certificate was filed, so to say. Even without the Foundation, he would have joined the war effort and, subsequently, died in WWI. And with the Foundation? The way they took him in, saved him, set the base for his unquestioned loyalty to them, which will be his downfall in the end. He is a tool to the Foundation, someone who was raised to put the greater good, the mission, above anything else. His views on this will ironically eventually end up clashing with those of the other Overseers, who see his loyalty as fanaticism, leading to his termination step by step. (Can't say much more on this due to spoilers ajsnsms)

Willow is a much more personal case of the trope, meanwhile. Their personality and perviously mentioned idealism didn't mash well with the old Foundation and still butt heads with the modern one at times; them somewhat growing up within the anomalous world doesn't help this mindset either. Their ideals would work better with the Serpent's Hand - and that realization, made by the Council in approximately sixteen years, is Willow's downfall. They can't risk having a potential traitor in their middle, after all, even if Willow is nothing more than a dreamer. So, by one wrong move, by being recruited by the wrong organization, Willow, too, has been slowly dying for decades now.

[dangermousie]

OK, I am nowhere near here since I just started my rewatch but this is one of my favorite scenes so I went to watch it because NO RULES!!!!!

Like, the only scene that hits my tropes harder is the intercut between the wedding and the execution in The Wolf.

The contrast between Asule and Yu Ran’s opulent wedding (that they have both been forced to by the King of Lower Tang and Yu Ran’s aunt holding Ji Ye’s life as a carrot) and Ji Ye in the depths of the prison, about to be taken away on his personal journey to hell (NEF gets very grim, but the sole time I had to take a break because it maxed me out was during the story of what happens to Ji Ye once he’s taken away) gets me SO MUCH!

And Yu Ran racing to the prison as soon as the wedding is over but being too late. The fact that the drama went there - that it didn’t do the gentler, cliche thing of letting them have one more meeting is !!!!! The next time they meet, Ji Ye has been taken apart into his constituent parts and reassembled into something much tougher but miles darker and utterly broken and my heart breaks for them because they are freaking BABIES.

But then this drama never does the expected, the more dramatic, the more cliche - from stubbornly keeping Asule a pacifist, to little things like the lack of meeting here, to the way they handle the love triangle by not making one.

I mean, think what ANY OTHER drama would do with the concept of cursed prince falls for warm princess who is the first girl to bring sunshine to him after his childhood love died (and there is more guilt than love there, with Suma), but said princess falls for a fighter from the gutter. And the three are friends. And then prince and princess are made to marry to save the fighter and oh god, any other drama would milk the angst and add so much jealousy and doom. It would either make Yu Ran eventually fall for Asule and make Ji Ye tragic or evil. Or it would do what something like The Wolf did, where Asule is the noble (in blood and deed) second wheel who eventually gracefully bows out after trying to win out his wife’s heart but realizing he cannot.

Not NEF. Not NEF. Asule NEVER mistakes Yu Ran’s warmth and friendship for anything other than it is, not after realizing she actually loves Ji Ye. He never goes “but maybe if I am extra nice she will...” Nor does he martyr and mope. This a man with so much self-regulation (as he has to have or he’d set the world on fire) that he shuts it down for himself. But he doesn’t hide or martyr himself or suffer in silence. What he does is on their wedding night he tells her how he feels about her, that he knows she loves Ji Ye, that he is fine and doesn’t want to try to win her own because he respects the fact that she knows her own mind and only wanted to tell her the truth because he believes in telling it like it is and it’s not anything other than that AND HE MEANS IT!!!! He never brings it up again, never wallows, nothing. He does not believe in lying and he believes in being honest with his friends but that is literally all. How freaking rare is that? He leaves for the capital next morning to put distance between them so as not to inconvenience her because he knows she’d be pressured about consummating/wooing him/whatever and also because he wants to put distance between them for his own equilibrium until he finishes processing it. And he moves on and eventually gets an awesome OTP of his own. And the same thing when the three reunite - Yu Ran clears up the real reason for marriage and what happened once she talks to Ji Ye pretty damn quick and the fact that she was at one point married to Asule (he gave her a divorce letter asap) is basically not an issue among the three. I LOVE THAT SO MUCH!!!!!

[atamascolily]

My favorite example of Narrativium in Thunderbolt Fantasy is when Juan Can Yun manages to navigate his way through the Labyrinth of Darkness without the macguffin the party spent several episodes trying to acquire because he marked a path on the way in. Every time I get to that point, I mutter "this is utter bullshit" and every time I'm won over because it just works and lets us move on to the next thing rather than getting bogged down in details. Ditto for the Spirit Veins in the trees, which turn up once and never again--it's so awesome and convenient, it automatically bypasses any objections my brain might raise. (Or as the Madoka Magica meme goes, "It's magic, bitch, I don't have to explain shit".) Truly inspiring.

Like Lian Qi, I think Xie Ying Luo is Doomed by the Narrative, in the sense that there is no way for her to win from the moment of her introduction. She chooses pride over expediency by trying to kill Shang instead of running off with the Index, as Shang himself notes. That's the moment it all goes to hell in a handbasket for her; the rest is one long slide to rock bottom via Ironically Appropriate means. And when she tries to get up again, the narrative crushes her like a bug.

Does that mean she shouldn't have tried, though? I don't know if it's that simple. Xiao Kuang Juan died as he lived--trying to cozen up to someone to get them to do the dirty work for him--and it did not save him in the end. Ditto for Lou Zhen Jie, who ultimately got a happy ending (for him, anyway--Lou Zhen Jie heaven is Zhao Jun Lin hell. It's a very efficient system). Thunderbolt Fantasy is a harsh world for NPCs and villains and side characters alike--I'm still impressed that Wan Jun Po's men managed to survive Season 3 given the mass casualties in Season 2. The determining factor seems to be whether any given character is more valuable to the narrative alive or dead, but that's not necessarily information the characters themselves have access to.

Re: "Xie Ying Luo Lives" AUs, I 100% agree, and the only reason I haven't written something like that myself is because it so wildly diverges from the narrative it stops being a Thunderbolt Fantasy story and starts being something else instead! I did write an AU that played with what her fate might be had she lived in a different way, as well an AU in which she revisits her choices in the afterlife, but I have not yet figured out the right approach for the kind of story you describe, though it haunts me.

This question of fighting fate/the narrative (in a story, is there really any difference?) is a central preoccupation of many of Urobuchi's works, but it meshes especially well with budaixi conventions and genre tropes. Puella Magi Madoka Magica also has its share of theatrical elements and magical girl archetypes, but I agree that the character poems explicitly make this textual in a way that I rarely encounter in other media.

That said, while Urobuchi has a deep love for and knowledge of, budaixi conventions, Thunderbolt Fantasy appears to play with them in interesting ways. This can be seen in the presentation of the character poems, which do not necessarily appear when a character is introduced, but when their true self is revealed. Thus, Juan Can Yun's poem only appears when he chooses pride over expediency and Dan Fei over Shou Yun Xiao; Lin Xue Ya's when his duplicity is exposed; and Shang Bu Huan's at the very end of Season 1. Before that, we can watch them in action, but we don't truly grasp who they are because we are missing important pieces. Traditional conventions are simultaneously maintained, yet fluid.

That said, I agree that Xie Ying Luo and Lang Wu Yao appear to challenge this particular convention by "growing beyond" the worldviews implied in their poems. Xie Ying Luo's is "solved" by erasing her from the narrative (sob!) while Lang Wu Yao's fate is more open.

Based on what Urobuchi has said in interviews, Lang's personality is not "fixed" in the same way that Shang or Lin's is; he has not yet discovered his purpose in life. I think for Lang the ultimate key to maturity is the realization that good and evil are not as different as he originally assumed, and that on some level (either literal or metaphorical) humans and demons are fundamentally the same. This show being what it is, my bet is literal, but that's something S4 will likely address.

We see a similar version of this with Juan Can Yun and Lin Xue Ya in S3, actually:

Of course, Lin's entire character poem is all about how truth and lies are two sides of the same coin, so he would say that, wouldn't he... but Lin is generally right about these kinds of things; as far as I can tell, he always tells the truth, albeit from "a certain point of view". "Things that seem like they're different turn out to be the same" is a running theme of Thunderbolt Fantasy in general, so I feel reasonably confident in predicting it will be true for Lang's situation as well. He will fix the disharmony within himself and gain power and freedom (from his father, if nothing else) as a result; it will re-affirm his character poem instead of changing it because the dichotomy that was causing the discord is resolved. "I accept the good and the bad, the human and demonic, and they are not separate" feels like the only possible answer to the paradox he's confronted with.

I think Lang's arc will end better than Xie Ying Luo's, if only because he is a protagonist, and I don't think his story is ultimately a tragedy, though it has no shortage of tragic elements. Even though Thunderbolt Fantasy is not a romance, Lang Wu Yao strikes me as a romantic hero in a coming-of-age story, even if his love interest has been mostly sidelined thus far. Given that his arc in Bewitching Melody was about seizing control of his own fate, I think he will continue to build upon this framework in the future.

Or to put it a different way, I think Lang will survive by virtue of genre expectations.... the question being "which genre and is it the one we thought we were watching?" Are the characters passive victims of the story/narrative (i.e., fate) or can they create it and/or shift the audience's perceptions of it? Does the tail wag the dog or vice versa? Will our expectations be borne out or will they be subverted in a satisfying manner instead?

We'll find out, but my money's on Shang ultimately being right because he's the hero and all (in keeping with genre expectations, of course). Lin Xue Ya will also be right, because life is tricky like that, and because he and Shang, like light and dark or truth and lies, are two halves of a whole, which is why the story began with them coming together and I think it will end with them departing together on a new adventure. But there is a great opportunity for meta-narrative awesomeness--simultaneously adhering to genre conventions yet challenging them--and I can't wait to see how it all shakes out.

I like that you mention "ethos", because the Crunchyroll translation has Lin Xue Ya use that word when he's discussing the kind of things he likes to steal--to understand who that person is so thoroughly that he can take from them the thing that gives their life intrinsic meaning. Of course, it keeps backfiring on him, either because he doesn't truly understand them in the first place, or because his victims decide to get back at him where it hurts, but so much of Lin's power comes from being genre-savvy; as a storyteller in-universe, he knows narrative cues when he sees them, to the point of being able to tap into them for his own purposes (i.e., the Nendoroid phone). The ending of Bewitching Melody of the West where he breaks the fourth wall with information he should not have access to at that point in time gets me every single time, because it's just so damn meta, and raises some fascinating questions about who and what he really is. Out of everyone in the cast, Lin Xue Ya is the one most aware of the power of narrative, and how it is stronger than any sword, and this is a huge part of what makes him so effective and compelling.

But to build on your last statement, I would say that while audience expectations and authorial skill are indeed more powerful than weapons and warriors, the most powerful force in Thunderbolt Fantasy is ultimately the author's love for their characters, their world, and the story that they're telling, from which everything else arises.

Some Thoughts on Power Levels in Thunderbolt Fantasy

@jafndaegur got me thinking about this, so strap in because this is a long one!

tl;dr: Narrative casuality is linear for characters and the audience, and non-linear for writers and analysts; power levels in Thunderbolt Fantasy are a perfect illustration of this, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Fight scenes are a major component of Thunderbolt Fantasy, but who wins and who loses is determined less by the absolute power levels of the respective parties, but by the needs of the narrative. There's a tendency to think of it as the other way around because that's how it initially appears to us as viewers--we see the outcome and think one caused the other. However, this is an illusion caused by the way we experience media. From a structural and compositional standpoint, the reverse is true--the story dictates the outcome, not the other way around.

For an example, let's look at Lian Qi's ill-fated fight against Sha Wu Sheng in Season 1. On the surface, it looks like Wu Sheng is considerably stronger, since he was able to kill Lian Qi in one blow. However, consider that Lian Qi's death is required for the story to work--if he survived and Wu Sheng didn't, it would be a different story entirely! This isn't what is usually meant by the phrase "doomed by the narrative," but in this case, it's an accurate description of the situation--there is no power level Lian Qi could possibly possess that would save him from Wu Sheng, since Wu Sheng's presence is required for the story as it stands to work.

Lian Qi's narrative role is to serve as a sacrificial lamb for Wu Sheng--that's his one (1) job and he's very good at it. We know that Wu Sheng is powerful, because he was able to effortlessly destroy a man of considerable skill and power whom Lin Xue Ya had just spoken highly of in the preceding scene. Saying that this means that Wu Sheng is thus a stronger fighter may be true, but it's not particularly interesting as an isolated factoid; what matters is what the fight reveals about the characters (that Wu Sheng is ruthless and determined) and how it advances and serves the story (gets him the Soul Echo Flute and a chance to reunite with Lin Xue Ya).

In other words, strength/power is correlated with victory, but correlation is not causation, even though we tend to interpret it as such because we experience narratives linearly, where cause comes before effect.

The other important thing to consider is that characters in Thunderbolt Fantasy are not simply discrete individuals--they also represent specific moral or philosophical positions. When they clash, the "strength" of the character has as much to do with the strength of this position as it does their physical prowess. This is true for most if not all of Gen Urobuchi's works, but it's more explicitly textual in Thunderbolt Fantasy, because in-universe, the character's "sword" is viewed as an extension of the self; it is primarily through conflict that this self becomes fully revealed.

Perhaps the best example of this is Lin Xue Ya's fight with Mie Tian Hai, in which the latter is fighting to preserve his philosophy that strength through the sword can only be attained a certain way. His physical defeat and the shattering of that worldview occur simultaneously; furthermore, his identity is so wrapped up in this particular point that he immediately kills himself in response.

[As an aside: Mie Tian Hai's suicide out of spite is foreshadowed by Can Xiong doing the same thing in the first episode when Shang Bu Huan defeats him. Can Xiong is not merely a loyal subordinate; he is enacting the teachings embodied by his master. Say whatever else you will about Mie Tian Hai, at least he isn't a hypocrite--he practices exactly what he preaches. There's a reason I refer to the Xuan Gui Zong as a "death cult"!!]

Taken together, these two factors--narrative purpose and philosophical position--provide a useful framework to make sense of conflict, and thus power levels, in Thunderbolt Fantasy. Here are a few examples:

-Shang Bu Huan vs. Lang Wu Yao in Bewitching Melody of the West -- Shang is older and more experienced than Lang in many respects, so it makes sense that he would win out here. However, what settles his victory isn't his physical skill, it's his moral clarity and sense of purpose; he knows who he is and that his cause is righteous.

Meanwhile, Lang is powerful, with martial arts from his unique upbringing combined with the magic of his innate heritage, but he is also confused and morally compromised through his allegiance to the corrupt Xi You imperial court, which ultimately gives Shang the upper hand. Note that this fight ends when Shang directly calls out Lang's ideas of good and evil, and Lang loses the will to continue; his doubts and uncertainty make it impossible for him to win. The climax of the movie is Lang coming to an emotional realization and gaining a corresponding power-up/magical boy transformation to go with it. Changing his philosophy increased his strength, not the other way around!

As Season 2 demonstrates, Lang's narrow-minded focus on good and evil have not changed by the end of Bewitching Melody, he's just altered the definitions so that Shang is now one of the good guys, and taken agency over his decisions instead of being a mindless tool for anyone else. This rigidness will continue to hold him back until he adopts a broader and more mature philosophy. This is especially important, because the Huo Shi Ming Huang fight in S3 demonstrates vividly that Lang's powers are fueled by his emotions; when unchanneled, he is capable of incredible destruction. (There's so much about that scene that is wonderful from an analytical standpoint, but my favorite part is Ling Ya muttering, "Oh, buddy, no" [paraphrase] right before all hell breaks loose; Ling Ya, as Lang's self-appointed mouthpiece, knows what's up.)

-Speaking of Huo Shi Ming Huang, the flashback in S3x06 is one of the few times we've ever seen Shang on the back foot. Not coincidentally, this fight is also characterized by Shang's hesitation and doubts as to the best course of action, which create a cascade of consequences leading to a Bad Ending of Mu Tian Ming's blindness and Shang's subsequent departure from Xi You. I've written elsewhere about how this outcome is also narratively determined in advance by the events of Season 1, which were written first even though they occur later in-universe, to the point where there's an entire mini-arc devoted to showing just how necessary this particular loss was; for better or worse, the entire story of Thunderbolt Fantasy rests on it.

-Xie Ying Luo vs. Shang Bu Huan in S2x09, "The Path of the Strong" - Up to this point, Xie Ying Luo's fighting style has been the opposite of the standard wuxia code of honor--she uses illusions and poisons and takes hostages rather than fight one-on-one. As Lin Xue Ya wryly points out in 2x04, this is the best way of dealing with a powerhouse like Shang Bu Huan (he even says it would be how he'd take Shang down!!!) but it's strongly implied that Xie Ying Luo relies on these methods because she doubts her own strength. [How much of this is due to misogyny is unclear, but there's no question it's a factor; Ba Wang Yu's character in S4 suggests she has taken the opposite approach to the same systemic forces with her emphasis on physical strength.] Xie's arc is characterized by her uncertainty and doubts, which send her on an increasing downward spiral (exposure to Di Kong's nihilism does not help!); even wielding Seven Blasphemous Deaths isn't enough to overcome it. However, after freeing herself from the demonic sword's thrall, Xie Ying Luo makes the unexpected decision to fight Shang one on one with her sword, something she has spent the entire show up to this point avoiding.

This makes no goddamn sense from a tactical perspective, but it's not about tactics or even victory. On a practical level, Xie Ying Luo is saving face--she knows she can't win, but if Shang defeats her and takes Seven Blasphemous Deaths, she can at least say that she didn't completely abandon her duties. She may have lost the fight, but she retains her honor, even if it means she can never return to Huo Shi Ming Huang's service.

Shang recognizes this, which is why he is so gracious to her after her defeat--he respects the courage it took to show up in the first place, and encourages her to redefine what it means to be strong in the first place. Again, we return to the idea that true strength isn't physical prowess, but moral clarity and certainty, which Shang possesses in abundance--and is also willing to pass along to others. Season 2 goes to a lot of effort to demonstrate Shang's mercy and compassion are strengths, not weaknesses, and this scene is further evidence of this.

Shang also believes that fate is not fixed and that people are capable of growing and changing if they choose to do so, which again gives him power over those like Sha Wu Sheng and Lou Zhen Jie, who believe themselves to be instruments of inevitability. (This is also what makes Shang Bu Huan endlessly surprising and therefore interesting and entertaining to Lin Xue Ya, but that's a whole 'nother story.) Unfortunately, Xie Ying Luo is tragically murdered by the very weapon she gave up (and by a man she trusted!!) and never gets to fully realize this, but she tries, damn it, even if it wasn't enough to save her in the end. This is one reason why Lang Wu Yao buries her even though they were enemies, because on some level he recognizes and honors that attempt, despite the fact he wasn't there to witness exactly what transpired.

I should also point out that while moral strength is a source of power, it's not the be-all, end-all--one reason why Lou Zhen Jie is so terrifying is because he no longer doubts. His logic and reasoning might be unsound, but he is so single-mindedly focused on his goal that he can plow through any obstacle single-handedly (pun intended). This is also what makes him such a great foil to Shang Bu Huan on multiple levels; Lou Zhen Jie is what would happen if Shang were evil/misguided/less ethical than he actually was. This is why Shang fighting alone can match Lou Zhen Jie but cannot win without something else to tip the scales.

Here's a fight that's interesting precisely because it didn't happen: Lin Xue Ya vs. Sha Wu Sheng. One reason why Lin Xue Ya refuses to fight Sha Wu Sheng at any point in Season 1 is that it would require Lin to reveal himself openly and intimately in a way he has no desire to do. Furthermore, it would also clash with the needs of the story, i.e., the big reveal of Lin's abilities in the final episode. Lin is so confident in his own abilities that he has no need to "prove" himself by fighting; just as his narrative foil Shang has no need to "prove" his own strength by picking stupid fights and does everything he can to avoid them. The primary difference between the two is that Lin spares his enemies so he can savor their suffering, while Shang spares his enemies so they can do better in the future.

This is why Shang repeatedly and emphatically insists that he and Lin have nothing in common--he sees the commonalities but the differences repel him even more because of it. Note that Shang indirectly critiques Lin's approach when he tells Xie Ying Luo that a truly strong person can spare someone's life and not have them come after him in revenge.... in essence, arguing that Lin's whole approach is fundamentally misguided. (This is also the second time he's done this in conversation with Xie Ying Luo; the first time was in 2x01 when he unfavorably compared her technique to Lin's. For someone who claims to want nothing to do with this guy, he sure thinks about him a lot!) Shang also has no intention of killing Lou Zhen Jie in the climax of S2; all he wants is to take Seven Blasphemous Deaths away from him.

[This leads to fascinating questions like "How will Shang deal with Huo Shi Ming Huang?" and "Can the guy who believes in the supremacy of fate and seeks to become Fate itself ever break free of it?" which I think we'll see in the final movie, so TBD.]

I'll also note that there is a tendency in modern storytelling to have power as the limiting factor for characters, whereas myths and epics give their characters free reign to do whatever they want, and as a story about archetypal characters with superhuman abilities, I think Thunderbolt Fantasy leans more towards the latter in many respects. Characters have exactly enough power to do what narratively needs to get done, no more and no less, so in that sense, it's a very efficient system.

I'll stop here because this is very long and rambling and I think I've demonstrated my point: for something so seemingly obvious and matter of fact, "strength" and "power" in Thunderbolt Fantasy, let alone comparing that of one character to another, is far more challenging than it appears on the surface, and contingent upon both the character's moral stance and the larger narrative of which they are a part. It's both deeper and far more interesting than "Character X is stronger than Character Y" (even if character X is stronger than character Y!).

[yuiultima]

Sabine Jedi Au?

So, recently while working on one of my Au's, another Encanto Au of course, My mind went to one of my favorite Star Wars series; Star Wars Rebels.

Rebels was the thing that got me into Star wars, so I'm not really a veteran, and while re watching it I always wondered "What if Sabine was a Jedi?"

While also combining a thought with a 'Time Travel-Fix it' trope.

Like, what if after Ezra disappeared thigs immediately went wrong? I have a clear picture of how it would go:

Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, finally deals with the ghost crew PERSONALLY. Finding the crew and crashing the ghost, killing everyone in the ship. Chopper, Hera, Zeb and Kallus; all except Sabine.

Sabine having witnessed this is consumed with despair and anger, and uses the FORCE. Seeing this, Darth Vader taunts the girl, making her more angry. And at that moment Darth Vader asks her to join him, that she has no more to fight for. And Sabine takes his hand. Becoming an Apprentice to the Dark side. and Later on becoming a Sith known as Darth Rogue.

Years later, on a mission, Darth Rogue encounters Ahsoka, who reaches out to what remains of Sabine Wren, successfully reaching the girl. Sabine is confused, angry and sad; she has no reason to live for, no reason to FIGHT for.

Until Ahsoka says this "What if you could change what has happened, What if you had a second chance?" Sabine, or Rogue as she now goes as is intrigued by this and asks her "How?"

Ahsoka takes Sabine to Lothal, where the Lothal Wolves lead them to an entrance believe to be long gone, an entrance to the Lothal Jedi Temple, Ahsoka leads her to World Between Worlds, saying specifically "You can go back, you can change it all. Save all of us, including yourself or you could doom all of us" Just like how Ezra saved her

Rogue(Sabine Wren) doesn't know what to do and asks "If I do this, would I disappear? Would I finally be free?" Ahsoka answering "You won't, it isn't what the force wants. The Force led you to be who you are now Sabine, there must be a reason"

Rogue looks around, at the different times. She sees Ezra before he disappeared, Kanan before he died and the ghost crew before they killed by Darth Vader. But Rogue ignores all of that and instead walks to where she sees where it all began, when they first met Ezra

"To the Very beginning?" asked Ahsoka

Rogue nodding "To the very beginning, my other self will need help with the force, and I can help everybody...maybe even myself" she steps into the portal and begins her journey to safe everyone she cares about.

Things are still....a rough draft and I don't really know how it would work but I am really intrigued by the idea of it. Maybe a future story on Ao3?

Maybe, but I'll definitely start possibly drawing things out for it

[ins0mnia-an0nym0us-au]

let’s talk about TUA fandom

y’all are hypocritical - let’s just get it out there.

before you start typing out some angry comments or coming in my ask-box lemme explain my reasoning here.

LUTHER HARGREEVES

Luther is one of the most hated characters in this fandom for some unknown reason to me. He is just another victim in all of this and as much as all of you want to blame everything on his actions, he simply acted in what he thought were the best interests of everyone. Luther showed his trauma in the same way the rest did.

In my opinion, Luther is one of the most underrated characters in The Umbrella Academy because all of you are too busy with your thirsting after Diego or uWu-ing over Klaus to notice him.

So here is Luther’s trauma broken down for all of you. 

Luther was doomed from the moment he was chosen to be Number One, it’s that simple. From the very moment Reginald chose him, he had no chance, because he had the expectation of being the best put on his shoulders by a man who was never going to see any of them as anything less than worthless.

But Luther was determined to live up to his name, to be what his father wanted him to be – to be Number One.

Because for Luther he was sure everything that Reginald was doing was out of love. But I think Luther deep down knew that their father didn’t love them, but he needed to believe it was out of love, he couldn’t stand the thought of it being anything but love, because if it wasn’t love then it wasn’t worth it. He needed it to be worth it.

We got a glimpse of that in season one when he found all the packages he sent to Reginald. He never had any friends, he never left the house, he gave up his entire life for his father and the mission he believed in. Because he needed to believe it was worth it and when he found out it wasn’t – well, he had thrown his entire life away for what? It wasn’t because their father loved them or believed in them. So what was it?

Just to prove to all of you that Luther is more like his siblings than you all want to admit, here are some comparisons - 

LUTHER: needed the moon to have a reason behind it, so much so that his obsession put others in danger. He also couldn’t face it when it turned out his mission was for nothing - so he regressed to his old behavior of thinking his father was right.

DIEGO: needed to be the hero, even though I’m almost positive Diego isn’t a complete idiot and knows that dramatically changing history would be bad - aka saving JFK could make the timeline explode, he needed to save him. So much so he was willing to put all of his siblings in jeopardy.

LUTHER: was told from the beginning he was the leader and that being Number One meant that he had to be the best. Because of this he had an inflated sense of importance. It just meant he had a higher distance to fall when he finally realized that it all meant nothing. He also doesn’t take their opinions or plans seriously because he’s Number One and his plans are superior.

FIVE: is a cocky little shit, who is insistent he is the smartest person around and he might be. But he views everyone around him as lesser, that includes his siblings. He has spent his entire time in the apocalypse trying to get back to save his siblings but still treats them like garbage. He also never lets his siblings in on anything that’s happening, he never sits them down and explains anything, and when they try to contribute with a plan or a theory he looks at them like they are stupid. 

LUTHER: was sent to the moon, alone, with no one to talk to. Before that he had no friends his age, his only companions were Grace, his father, and Pogo. He’s been alone for a long time.

VANYA: has been alone for a lot longer than Luther - but trauma is not a competition and they both have dealt with it differently. I just wanted to point out these two similarities between the two characters.

LUTHER: is desperate for love and affection from his father. Everything he has done has been to get Reginalds approval and love but none of it has ever worked. He got small glimpses of things, like his dad’s favorite spot under a tree, so maybe he got a bit closer than the others but it was not real love.

ALLISON: is desperate for love and affection in general - hence her stardom. She needs attention, she feeds on it. It isn’t until she has Claire that I think she truly understands that everything until then has been fake. The unconditional love of a child made her realize that all of that fake love and affection is no match for real love.

LUTHER: has probably felt like a monster since before his transformation - having super-strength means having to be very careful with your own body. But after the transformation must’ve been so much worse. 

BEN: literally has a monster inside of him and has always felt like a monster. The difference is he has openly spoken about feeling like a monster.

LUTHER: has always been in control of himself. He is the exact opposite of Klaus in how he uses control to deal with trauma. Luther needs control in order to deal with trauma.

KLAUS: has no control and he does not want it. To deal with trauma Klaus loses control by using drugs and alcohol but he also uses it to control his powers.

So now that I’ve gotten through the siblings a bit, let’s talk about another topic that has a bit of hypocrisy behind it -

ALLISON X LUTHER

For some reason this ship is very despised in the fandom, I don’t know if it’s because of the fact that one part of it is Luther but a lot of the reasons I see are just - ‘ew, they’re siblings’. 

Yet, most of the ships in TUA fandom are of the siblings being paired together.

Five x Vanya [fics on ao3 - 372]

Diego x Klaus [fics on ao3 - 687]

Ben x Klaus [fics on ao3 - 311]

The only other ships that top these are -

Dave x Klaus [fics on ao3 - 1409]

Diego x Patch [fics on ao3 - 434]

And let’s be really honest for a second here - them being in any romantic relationship with each other, is not weird. None of them are biologically related to one another. They were just raised in the same household as one another and told to treat each other as siblings. If they had never been adopted by Reginald Hargreeves and met randomly on the side of the road, this discussion would be moot. 

I find the Five x Vanya ship much more disturbing if I’m being honest, simply because most of the fics ship a fully grown Vanya, in the body of a 31-ish year old, with Five - who while mentally is like in his 60s or whatever, is back in his 13 year old body. If Vanya did ever get with Five before his body turned 18, it would be statutory rape.

Let’s also just for a second list some other fandom pairings that are pretty popular that people ship that have the same ‘we grew up as siblings but we aren’t biologically related’ trope.

Thor x Loki [fics on ao3 - 10894]

Eren x Mikasa [fics on ao3 - 1221]

John Marston x Arthur Morgan [fics on ao3 - 651]

Max x Alec [fics on ao3 - 357]

Iris x Barry [fics on ao3 - 3689]

It’s incredibly strange to me how unpopular Allison x Luther is - especially since it’s actually canon in the comics. Granted, some things from the comics of course should change or be adapted, but the chemistry between Tom Hopper and Emmy Raver-Lampman is just spectacular, especially during the dance scene in The Day That Wasn't.

I absolutely loved that scene (still mad it’s nowhere on youtube). I felt like we got to see Luther both as how Allison sees him and for a moment he was out of his head with Allison, relaxed and just himself. 

If you just don’t ship it, just say you don’t ship it. 

FINAL THOUGHTS

Alright. I think my duty as a member of the Luther-Protection squad is finished. If you can’t see your hypocrisy after this post, I really don’t know what to tell you. If you would like to have a calm discussion about why you think I’m wrong or right, I’m willing to talk about it. However, anyone who comes at me just spewing vitriol or that I’m so stupid will not be taken seriously, if you can’t have a calm discussion about things then I won’t take you seriously. 

I do want to say though - I understand having favorite characters, I’m a sucker for characters that are only held back from destroying the world by a hug (Vanya). But I’m also someone who loves to look at the entire picture and appreciate the depth of each character in a series, even the ones I hate. In fact - some of my favorite characters were ones I hated and the actors/actresses soon became my favorite because it takes a lot of talent to make people hate you.

So for a moment, really think if you hate Luther Hargreeves or if you dislike his actions and if it’s his actions, who you really should hate is Reginald Hargreeves because all Luther has ever done has been a reaction to trauma - exactly like the rest of his siblings.

[c0rpsedemon]

i am curious, as someone who’s only exposure to arthurania was reading jane yolen’s young merlin as a child, would you mind saying why hnoc is a bad adaptation? i’m super curious but no worries if not <3

this has been sitting in my inbox for months bc i kept telling myself i needed to write a full essay with proof from medieval lit to make myself feel smarter.  however, since i’ve recently lost all credibility bc i can’t articulate points to save my life, and since i’ve realized that i could answer this in a just a couple paragraphs, now seems like the right time to answer this ask. sorry for the wait.

under a cut bc length

also warnings for mentions of racism bc this is hnoc we're talking abt and sexual assault bc this is med lit we're also talking abt

the basic problems are pendragon polycule itself, the story beats of the album, the fridging and lack of characterization of morgan le fay, the clear influence of pop culture arthuriana, and whatever the fuck happened with gawain/e.

pendragon polycule is... just not a good take.  there’s a bit in the lancelot-grail abt arthur viewing lancelot like a son (and lancelot not giving a shit abt him).  also arthur knew his parents for years before lancelot was even born.  plus lancelot just Doesn’t care abt him and i can’t stress this part enough.  arthur repeatedly tries to have guinnevere killed, mostly in the lancelot-grail, and guinn didn’t really have any say in marrying him bc she was a teenager.  lancelot and guinnevere is a lot better but that’s not saying much.  guinn doesn’t exactly treat lancelot too well... like at all, BUT it’s not intrinsic to their relationship and is completely caused by medieval misogyny and i’m all in favor of modern retellings saying fuck that.  but also lancelot has multiple pseudo-canon boyfriends (this is med lit after all), and one pseudo-canon husband so like... there were better options.  (also lancelot’s husband is basically in a lavender marriage with guinnevere’s maybe girlfriend who most authors just eventually forget abt as the story progresses).

this next one is a problem with a lot of modern arthurian works bc the inclusion of elayne of astolat is too much to ask apparently.  the grail quest isn’t tied to the fall of camelot, it just happens to be one of the last grand adventures the knights of the round table have.  the event that traditionally sets off the fall is the death of the maiden of astolat/the lady of shalott/elayne of escolat/she has a lot of names, her story has a few variations but usually she either is cursed to stay in a tower and weave and only be able to see the outside world through a mirror positioned across from her window, until lancelot rides by and she rushes to see him out of the actual window and her mirror shatters, setting off her death, or she lives with her father and brothers and takes care of lancelot bc he was injured for a time and she gets to go on adventures to find him and she’s friends with gawaine and she dies bc lancelot rejects her and this version’s a lot more fun but also more happens which makes it harder to explain.  the way her story ends however, is that she dies after she makes arrangements for a glorious boat to drift from astolat to camelot carrying nothing but her dead body and a letter explaining that she died of love for lancelot du lac and the court mourns the death of such a beautiful and young maiden (her age varies a lot but i’ve always read her as a young teenager at most).  but the important thing is, camelot is doomed from the moment she washes up on its shore bc she’s an omen of the end and has symbolic meaning and all that, the maiden of astolat washes up on camelot’s shores, the court mourns the loss of a maiden in her prime and she marks the end of camelot’s prime as well, morgan le fay reappears after being presumed dead and warns arthur of guinnevere and lancelot’s affair, aggravaine and modred conspire to bring lancelot and guinnevere’s affair to light, they succeed but lancelot escapes, guinnevere is to be burnt at the stake and lancelot rescues her, killing aggravaine, gaheris and gareth (gawaine’s brothers) in the process, gawaine drags his uncle and camelot to war bc he was driven mad due to the loss of his brothers, lancelot accidentally kills gawaine, his best friend and maybe boyfriend (i have RECEIPTS), and gawaine forgives him on his detahbed while lancelot and guinn rejoin arthur, meanwhile modred, who practically had the throne handed to him, usurps and invites the saxons in, camlann happens, and camelot is destroyed.  no where in there is the grail quest.

morgan le fay is honestly the most questionable part of the album bc there’s not a single text where she dies.  like....  at least with eurydice in udad she died in the original... there’s no basis for morgan dying.  also she is NOT modred’s mother and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar, she interacts with him once in the vulgate bc she had three of her nephews over and that’s IT.  it’s a horrible take which originated in the mists of avalon by marion zimmer bradley who is an honest to god monster for reasons i don’t want to trigger tag this post for.  also she’s one of the most dynamic and thought-out characters in the entire canon and they just made her a watered down morgause (modred’s actual mother, morgan’s sister, canonical milf)... there was no reason for it to be her apart from the fact that she’s more well known......

pop culture arthuriana is,,, one of my least favorite things.  no, morgan wasn’t modred’s mother, no, morgause wasn’t abusive but her husband sure was implied to be, no, aggravaine didn’t kill his mother, that was gaheris, he loved his mother, you’re only saying that bc he has a reputation as the “evil” orkney, no, the once and future king is not a good descriptor for arthur, stop making me read it, no, morgause wasn’t the one to initiate the thing with arthur resulting in modred, no, lancelot and arthur weren’t friends, no, tristan wasn’t a self-centered asshole, tennyson is a fucking liar, no, galahad didn’t have sex or want to, he’s one of the first ever explicitly asexual characters out there, no, galahad’s conception was NOT consensual, lancelot was tricked, and no, elayne of astolat wasn’t galahad’s mother, she’s implied to be younger than him.  those are just the big glaring ones, but i swear it’s bc of arthuriana’s reputation as a mythology and the connotations belonging to that word (no one true canon (which is true but there are still things that just AREN’T canon, not completely written down, passed by oral tradition) that causes ppl to see mediocre modern texts and go “oh. well this is abt as close to the original as i’m going to get” and don’t bother to look into so much as malory (who i only name bc he’s one of the most well known medieval authors with the most commonly used storylines, don’t read malory kids, he’s a mediocre-at-best writer even by medieval standards).  the big perpetrators of modern arthurian tropes are the books the once and future king by th wh*te, who is a shitty person and lets it bleed into his writing (which isn’t like... nice to read or anything, seriously why do ppl love this book so much it doesn’t have redeeming qualities), and the mists of avalon by marion zimmer bradley (it’s poorly written, the story is a mess, and mzb is honestly a monster and one google search will tell you that), and unfortunately the writings of tennyson, which are mostly good but he clearly didn’t read the povest (a later text that’s also my favorite, known for significantly improving ppl’s opinions on tristan, isolde and co.) before deciding he hated both tristan and isolde and he has HORRIBLE takes on them.  high noon over camelot is SEEPED in pop culture arthuriana and i think it would have been so much better if the band had read so much as a SUMMARY of the events of le morte.  it’s evident in the song “the once and future king” bc it’s,,,, literally named after one of the worst books in existence.  it’s shown in the morgan le fay thing, and it’s shown in the pendragon polycule thing.  and hell, i think you can even explain away the lack of elayne of astolat with pop culture arthuriana, bc ppl have had bad takes on her ever since th wh*te combined her character with that of ela*ne of corbenic, and the band probably went “huh, let’s write lancelot’s abuser out of this” and they would’ve been right to do so if that’s who elayne of astolat was.

the final big issue is gawaine, the closest thing the genre has to a protagonist, he’s pretty much canon bi and, in some texts, arospec, he’s a dashing knight of great reknown and he derails every romance to steal hearts, commit murder, and make out with every knight and lady mentioned.  and in hnoc he’s... racist.  that’s it.  it’s,,, almost completely unfounded by the arthurian canon and shows a major misunderstanding of his motivations (like i said earlier, he wants to avenge his brothers bc there’s a reoccuring motif of how much the orkneys value family).  i say almost bc in one text it’s his motivations for killing palomydes but i’ve never heard it mentioned by name bc that’s just what it’s known for.  most arthuriana fans just look away from it except when critiquing hnoc but that one text is an outlier, shouldn’t be counted, and i highly doubt the mechs made hnoc gawain how he is bc they found this text.  it’s just a bad text.

hnoc has,,, quite a few more minor issues, such as villainized ladies of the lake (their ONLY crimes were sealing away merlin bc he tried to assault teenage nimue/ninniane (proto-nimue/vivianne from the vulgate), and that one time vivviane/ninniane kidnapped adopted baby lancelot), assigning brain to merlin (y’know,,, the predator who helped arrange the [redacted] of arthur’s mother and tried to assault a teenager,,,) although merlin is portrayed in a positive light throughout modern arthuriana so i don’t think they knew, giving a song to pellinore, who my perception of has been forever altered bc i was introduced to him through malory and the explanation of torre’s conception, which you can just look up “sir torre arthurian” to find out abt if you can’t just Guess, if they wanted a song abt the questing beast palomydes was Right There AND has been associated with the questing beast for longer, but once again i don’t think they knew.

also namedropping a bunch of knights in the fiction is... it Suggests a bigger world full of all these other stories but they just don’t work bc the world of hnoc wasn’t designed in a way where the appearance of half these characters would make sense.  like,, tristan is referenced as dying in the grail quest in the same sentence as bedevere (one of the characters who is known for almost always surviving), but tristan Isn’t one of the knights who dies on the grail quest, his possible deaths (ignoring the potentially happy ending of the povest for a second) are either being murdered by his uncle, king mark (bc mark married tristan’s gf to try and get tristan killed and also to spite him), bc he was driven into a fury bc of tristan and isolde’s affair, or he’s injured and only isolde (the best healer in the world) can save him so he sends for her and if the ship he sent for her is supposed to fly white sails if she’s there, or black sails if she’s not, and the ship flies white sails but his wife (also named isolde) says it’s black sails (the why depends but usually comes down to jealousy), and so he gives up bc he thinks all hope is lost and usually succumbs to his injuries, either way isolde dies of a broken heart over his body.  there’s no way for the tristan and isolde story to play out like it’s supposed to in the world of hnoc, just as there’s no way for any story with gawaine (and Oh Boy are there a lot of stories with gawaine) or pretty much anyone else, without severely altering the canon.

of course, there are still parts of hnoc i like a lot, most of the music i adore and i just like the idea of space cowboys and the secret good hnoc that lives in my head.  and it has one of my favorite characterizations of galahad, even though galahad hnoc is nothing like galahad arthuriana.  it’s not GOOD but i like it and it’s fun to turn my brain off too, and i’ll always value it as my introduction to arthuriana.

also there are modern arthurian tropes i do like such as characters being genre-savvy/knowing they’re fictional/knowing they’ve done this before (which hnoc does wonderfully!) and bedevere-as-the-storyteller (everyone say thank you lord tennyson).

WOW that was longer than expected, i feel very passionately abt this, when i was planning to write a fully sourced essay i meant to include a bit at the bottom with recommendations to get into better arthuriana and i think i’ll keep that in this post.

if you like hnoc for the arthurian music i’d like to suggest heather dale’s arthurian music to you, she does occasionally fall into the trap of modern arthuriana (some parts of lancelot and arthur being close, morgan as modred’s mother), sometimes she’s just wrong (galahad at lancelot’s trial, a lot of tristan and isolde), and her stuff is kinda straightwashed sometimes (sir gawain and the green knight, for example) but i’d be lying if it wasn’t catchy, and it’s not quite as bad as hnoc adaptation-wise.  culwch and olwen is pretty accurate (albeit abridged bc culwch and olwen has SO many tangents), as is lily maid (it’s abt elayne of astolat!).

if you liked hnoc for king arthur... in space! then may i recommend to you my own fanfic? it's not posted yet but the second i finish writing the first chapter i'm going to make a Big Deal out of it that'll be impossible to miss!

if you want to learn abt arthuriana through tumblr-osmosis like i did at first, i’d like to recommend the love of my life @acegalahads, first and foremost (it’s me on a sideblog i’m just obsessed with myself), and i can’t recommend my arthuriana mutuals over there, @/gringolet, @/merlinenthusiast, @/jcbookworm, @/elayneofshalott, and @/elaineofascolat (the elayne urls have been popular recently), also i know for a fact that my mutual-in-law, @/itonje makes great arthuriana posts that i look forwards to whenever i open the tag.

here are a few good reference posts, a quick guide to the characters, a guide to characters of color, and a much more comprehensive intro to arthuriana post with even more texts linked to it.

if you want to ease into med lit, i’d like to introduce you to pre-raphaelite poetry, alfred lord tennyson and william morris are my favorites, although tennyson can’t be trusted with tristan and isolde.  the poem the lady of shalott is basically a rite of passage for arthuriana fans, although when it comes to tennyson’s writings abt elayne of astolat, i prefer lancelot and elaine, which is part of his much larger story, idylls of the king.  for morris, don’t trust what he says abt aggravaine killing his mother, but my favorites of his are sir galahad, a christmas mystery, which sounds like a shitty disney sequel, and palomyde’s quest, which i blame for my love of palomydes (that and the one bit of the povest where he asks tristan to be his greatest enemy and that he wants nothing more, gay ppl,,,,).

if you want to read abt lancelot and his husband, there’s the lancelot-grail cycle, which i believe was taken off of archive dot org and i think i found it on @/tobeisexhausting’s blog but don’t quote me on that.

the povest, which was a religious experience for me and i can’t reccomend enough if you want to like tristan and isolde, is here, i don’t know who scanned it but i think i found it on @/lanzelet’s blog

the dutch texts are just good in general, here’s a link to their section of a(n unfinished) site for hosting various texts by my former mutual @/reynier (who’s no longer on tumblr).  i’d like to recommend lancelot and the white hart specifically bc it’s mainly just just gawaine being gay for lancelot.

if you want older works, here’s my scan of the history of the kings of britain, and here’s culwch and olwen and pa gur.

oh wow this is even longer than i thought it would be so i’m going to wrap this up by saying that i always love to talk abt arthuriana more than anything if you have any questions or just are curious!

[prairiedust]

The Further Folklore of Supernatural

Here’s a little more folklore meta in light of how season 15 has been playing out if anyone is game. I genuinely thought that Moriah would be the end of the folklore stuff and tossed out “Folk the Author” as an “epilogue,” so this is probably less of an addendum than it is a waymarker as I try to continue to parse these themes into the last seven episodes.

Welp. *waves hands at everything* THIS is not how anyone expected 2020 to go. Things got a little bit big and I stopped thinking about Spn in light of needing that energy elsewhere. But I also don’t want this crapfest to ruin how I fan my favorite show, so here I go again. I will attempt a TL;DR, too!

If you’ve read my old “folklore” analysis here about how I think fairy tales and all their baggage fit into Supernatural season 14, you know that I believe Castiel has stepped into a Sleeping Beauty type story, and that coincidentally a few themes and symbolism from Snow White kept popping up around Dean. (I hold Sam to be a Protagonist in the modern “literary fiction” sense of the word, but emotionally, thematically, and narratively he’s always been a little inaccessible to me. I finally understood him when the death-of-the-author plot surfaced, and I’ll get to Sam eventually here. And Jack, there’s a little Jack in here, too.) 

If you would rather have the TL;DR than read several thousands of words about how folklore and myth *might* be abstractly connected to an American genre show, all I can say is that I tried. The textual support is all in the folklore posts. This is as succinct a summary as I could fabricate. At least I’m not gonna talk about Sam and bricolage and freeplay! This is an almost completely theory-free post! If you don’t want to read or don’t need a refresher and just want to know how this has been working in 15, you can scroll down to “END OF TL;DR”.

So, to catch up, I’m not talking about the folklore and mythology that this show has always relied on for plot and MOTWs. I wasn’t drilling down into urban legends like Hook Man or world folk monsters like shtrigas or pishtacos. By “folklore” I mean the study of storytelling tropes and tale types that have been with us for ages. One of the many subtexts of the end of the series. I’ve been tracking this because I think it’s fun to see how fairy tale imagery and mythology might layer preconscious suggestions into the text of the show. I personally think it was loud enough to be seen easily, but more than likely viewers felt unsettled, felt cheered, or felt like they knew what was coming? I’m curious to know. Anyway.

When we found out that Kelly Kline was going to name her baby “Jack” waaaaay back in season 12, things started chiming. Jack and the Beanstalk. Jack the Giant Killer. Jack Tales. Jack is a powerful Western character, sort of a cross between a noble hero and a trickster, featuring in stories that often blur lines and boundaries. He is both the poor man’s youngest son and the equal to King Arthur’s heir. Jack is both everyman and extraordinary. Jack is so cool, I wish I had more time to parse that but his qualities are not subtle in the text/subtext, anyway.

But back to my half-crack reading of seasons 14 and 15. 

Once upon a time in Supernatural, there were two fairy tales being told. Both fairy tales are found all over the world and in many forms, but they all can be grouped together because they all contain shared elements of the same basic plot or shared themes, and these two in particular are sister stories. So when I mention “Sleeping Beauty,” I’m talking about lots of different versions of the folk tale, and the same for “Snow White,” which can be found in one form or another in storytelling traditions all over the place. It is both helpful and irritating that these are both Disney movies, too.

Jack makes an allusion to Sleeping Beauty in 14x03 The Scar while talking to Castiel-- it’s the kind of subtextual flash that in and of itself means little and proves nothing, but then beginning with The Scar we got three stories in a row that dealt with “sleepers” of some sort-- Lora in 14x03 doomed to die because of a witch’s spell, Stuart in 14x04 Mint Condition in a coma because of a ghost attack, and Sasha’s father in 14x05 Nightmare Logic under the spell of a clever djinn. It’s powerful subtext, like a soft light that bathes these episodes in the color of fairy tale and makes Jack’s Dramatic Swoon at the end of Optimism all the more Dramatic-- subtext amplifying the plot. Jack goes to Heaven, but is eventually cornered by the Shadow, who wants him in the Empty where he will sleep forever-- the Shadow being an entity who has claimed the husks of dead angels since their inception and thus implies a “curse” laid on Jack from the moment he came into being-- but Castiel, who is ever a thief in oh so many ways, makes a bargain with the Shadow and essentially takes over the consequences of Jack’s Sleeping Beauty story (hence my rarely used but hilarious tag “Castiel Thief of Endings.”)

Now that we know from 14x20 Moriah that the Shadow and Billie the Reaper are, if not allies, at least working together when Jack is awakened in the Empty, does that mean that Castiel’s deal is still on the table, or has that fate been thwarted? *pounds table* Was Jack’s death and Chuck’s rise as a “greater threat” in 14x20 enough to shift Castiel’s ending? It’s the kind of subtextual question that lends tension to the narrative and it’s what I am here for. 

Well, speaking of thwarted expectations, Dean’s arc was being shadowed by a Snow White tale type. We all know Snow White but why don’t I sum it up anyway, since Disney messed up the folktale ending lol. Snow White is cast out of her home by her jealous stepmother (and echoes of the stepmother’s magic mirror show up in 15x02 Gods and Monsters) who sends her huntsman to kill her; the dude can’t do it and turns the girl loose in the forest instead. Snow White joins a band of outsiders who live in the forest-- in the Disney movie and the Grimms’ tale they are dwarfs, in some versions she happens upon a band of robbers-- and they love her very much and we presume she’s safe for the rest of her life; Michael mysteriously turns Dean loose to join Sam’s gathering of hunters, however we know, like Stepmom, Michael is still out there. The stepmother finds out that Snow White is actually alive and contrives to kill her herself. Eventually succeeding, Snow White appears to die and is usually laid to rest in a crystal casket/glass coffin. Her stepmother’s machinations have _stolen her agency_ (further paralleling Dean’s possession by AU!Michael.) A Handsome Prince stumbles upon Snow White, is besmitten with her, and he asks her protectors if he can have her, as one does. Leaving the Disney adaptation aside, Snow White awakens when whatever item that has caused her death-like state is dislodged (piece of apple in her throat) or removed (magic corset) or withdrawn (poisoned hairpin) by her protectors. Snow White is a story about the community of the dwarves of band of robbers or adopted family caring deeply for her, and when Dean starts making his own crystal casket, the ma’lak box, in which he will ride out eternity in tormented symbiosis with Apocalypse Michael, he has to rely on his family to help him see the plan through. However, here’s where Jack-- who is as much a chaos engine as his surrogate father Castiel if not more so-- steps in and ruins the ending. Jack smites Michael. Dean Winchester is saved. Again. To put the final nail in the coffin, so to speak, Jack later destroys the ma’lek box entirely. 

That was quite the surprise ending… for one of the stories.

Was the end of season 14 the end of the Sleeping Beauty theme, also?

END OF TL;DR

I quit writing about “folklore” for a while, but that doesn’t mean it stopped being a theme. It just stopped being fun to write about as the story got more and more dark, and when it transmuted into two parallel themes of “folklore” or storytelling by the people versus Death of the Author--or storytelling by a lauded authority-- and there was so much angst about the boundaries of Chuck’s powers, I just wanted to sit back and enjoy that. I did distill my thoughts about Sam’s new arc in the DotA plot, which I thought would subsume the folktale themes but hey, we still have folktales around, too. I mean, we have Sam and we have Dean, and we have two “literary” subtexts, or maybe rather two subjects about the nature of story, something that I thought was a little bit of a surprise.

Storytelling was a Feature of 15x07 Last Call, both in the sense that Lee and Dean swap new stories and tell old tales of their adventures together as they catch up, but also in the sense that we got additional “text”-- hints of a backstory where John and Dean hunted with Lee in that swampy long-ago “Stanford era,” and again we get storytelling when _Lee recounts how he ended up keeping a marid in his basement_. There is also an allusion to the Thousand and One Arabian Nights in that episode that I yelled about in a meta that I never put on the interwebs, but the “marid” is in a specific tale in many editions of that collection, and thus calls in not only a different folktale tradition but the concept of a framed/nested narrative, which I believe will be important to understanding the last episodes of the series, but that’s an aside. In 15x08 Our Father Who Aren’t In Heaven, Castiel _tells Michael the story_ of how everyone ended up where they are now to convince him to help. And Michael and Adam’s allyship, if not friendship, was probably the best subversion of any “storytelling” expectation we’ve ever had on this show. Belphagor set us up for “room full of crazy” or something, but, no. We got symbiosis. 

That almost sums up how I’ve been viewing the last “era” of spn. This wasn’t in the master post, but I shouted a lot about underworlds before 15x09 Purgatory 2: Return to Purgatory, and then stopped shouting because I had to ferment for a while. Also, as has been mentioned, the world turned to crap. But talking to other meta writers during the ramp up to the resumption of the season helped me realize just why this reading of myth to folktales to literature feels so right.

Underworlds and Otherworlds…. Everybody has crossed into an “underworld” or three in Supernatural, it’s really nbd. It was actually surface-level plot in season 13. By the time 15x09 rolled around, our heroes are just, like, strolling in and out of “sealed off” Hell after doing a level one spell and chilling with Billie in the Empty and even that Purgatory trip didn’t have the same feeling of danger that, say, crossing into the AU did. But also, we’re at the point where subtext is leading us to a _satisfactory_ ending. Where before we had serial text, like a cumulative tale type-- “The House that Jack Built”-- which just kept adding more and more plot, we’re hurtling o’er the apex of Freytag’s pyramid now and things are getting loud.

But they’re also getting very shifty.

I wrote a little bit about Sam Winchester successfully reviving Eileen in 15x06 Golden Time and the “Orpheus and Eurydice” symbolism of him keeping his back to her. (I’m not linking it because it’s so, so rough.) But because Sam is not an underworld hero, not completely-- I see him as a modern Protagonist coming to terms in a psychoanalytical model with things like mortality, fallibility, and mastery-- maybe bildungsroman, even -- he was able to subvert the tragic ending of the tale of Orpheus and Eurydice because it is not “his” story. But if I were pressed to find a mythic or folk tale type to measure Sam against, I could. I would probably sideye “the sorcerer’s apprentice” trope (ATU 325-The Magician and his Pupil :D ) which began as a poem that entered European folklore on different fronts. (and weirdly, that story was also Disnified in Fantasia. That’s probably more my own limitation as a gen x american lol than anything coming from the writer’s room.)

Dean got his moment in Purgatory where he was able to finally come to grips with his anger and heal the rift between himself and Castiel because Purgatory is a different kind of underworld. Dean is a successful threshold-crosser, having crossed that boundary out of Purgatory before, but in 15x09, his prayer to Castiel is all a subtextual evocation of doing the emotional and mental work of therapy, which Sam, as a modern protagonist, is usually caught up in. The mythic hero also deals with mortality, failibilty, and mastery, but in different terms. I hope I’m doing an okay job peeling apart these nuances that I’m seeing.

Since Castiel accompanied Dean to Purgatory, and in the past made his own wildly successful incursion into and out of Hell with Dean’s soul, and was the one in The Trap who actually retrieved the Leviathan blossom, Castiel counts as an underworld hero, too, but you can pull the lever and send the tumblers spinning again and make him a fairy tale character in that he has made this Bargain with the Empty which is both in the “modern” tradition of subverting a fairy tale, and the tale type “deal with the devil.” Or he could be seen as a modern protagonist in that he’s lowkey grappling with questions of selfhood and identification. “I am an angel of the lord.” “I am no one.” “It’s Steve, now.” “You are nothing.” “I am an angel.”

We even got an episode that playfully explored the concept of “hero” by subverting our expectations (Sam and Dean were rescued by, of all people, an upgraded Garth.) It was called The Hero’s Journey, after the Joseph Campbell book about mythic heroes.... !!! Like, what??? !!!! I didn’t even have anything to say about that episode, it just rocked. The “meta” was just all out there in plot, like the olives and boiled eggs in a 1950’s gelatin recipe. 

Some of this slipperiness in the subtext points right at the study of folklore and the (admittedly Eurocentric at first) efforts to transform a “soft science” into something approaching scientific rigor. The Aarne-Thompson-Uther folktale index is today a codifying or cataloguing tool, with which anthropologists and literature scholars can line up stories based on the motifs found within them-- it is useful for cataloguing tales, making comparative studies, and for trying to trace these stories back through human history to find the One First Story of that type, for instance the ur-story that led to Snow White. When did people first start telling that tale, where, how did it spread, and why are we still telling it today? The danger in using the ATU index is that by stripping a story down to it’s bones, we lose the story, if that makes sense. The beauty of using the ATU index is that you find many, many more interconnected stories. It’s sort of a paradox. Some scholars criticize the ATU, claiming that one could take a random selection of these motifs and shuffle them to create a story and, you sort of could? That’s the beauty of the system. 

So that brings us to Jack. I feel like Jack, as in Jack of all Trades, is anything that the narrative needs him to be. As far as I can find, “Jack” is not a “tale type.” He shows up alongside any number of them-- sometimes as a trickster, sometimes as a hero, almost always as a kind of slippery character. In the first folklore post, I invested many words in exploring Dabb’s obsession with threes-- AU Michael asks three beings what they desire, asks his human victim to guess his name three times, then we follow three sleeper stories, and so on. The original TFW was three people. But Jack makes four. 

What is Jack’s story going to be?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And speaking for a sec about the origins of myth and folklore-- what about ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE in the world? Are they lowkey churning the matrix of reality on their own and generating their own content, like Becky and her AO3 stories and mackettes? 

*¯\_(ツ)_/¯ intensifies*

It all just feels so good at this point, even the peril that I feel surrounding Castiel.

I *think* this will be the last of the longform metas before the end of the series. I mean, I can only hope so. I’ll drop some stuff about individual episodes that might be applicable as I rewatch, and I might clean up my post about Last Call and drop it on here, but I just wanted to kind of hold this up as a mile marker before the Final Seven air.

[hamliet]

I'm trying to get better at analyzing and predicting the trajectory of stories. Seeing as how you're often right about lots of things in SNK and BNHA, I'm curious what it was about Eren from the beginning that made you correctly predict his death? When I started the series I didn't predict that at all (I wasn't paying attention to detail as I was a kiddo when the series started), but of course it makes sense for him to die now. So what was it that made you predict it?

*gulps* I’M ACTUALLY ALMOST NEVER RIGHT for plot-specific stuff, honestly. Or worldbuilding. I like to think I’m decent at general arc predictions because I tend to focus on character/themes since those are my favorite parts of a story (like, I can predict tragedy, but not the particular kind, and I did not see Eren as the final villain until it happened--I really thought Zeke was).

So for Eren, there’s not one real moment I can point to--I started reading around Serumbowl, so I read all of that at once. I’m also, in general, a character survival pessimist. I tend to assume characters will die.

The worldbuilding itself played into this--anyone(ish) could die. Like, reading the stakes in SnK within the first few volumes, it was obviously not heading for Everyone Lives Happily Ever After--too much death along the way, and every piece of information and development gained came at an extremely high cost to the point where people wondered if it was worth it (like to keep sending the Scouts out). While I do think the cycle should be broken and will be (hence, Gabi), you can’t break the worldbuilding along the way. So I figured that to break the cycle, there would be a high cost. 

Eren specifically was clearly willing to risk death to accomplish his goals, which were also death for his enemies (I mean he died for Armin in like chapter 4 or 5), Jean kept calling him a “suicidal bastard,” and we knew how deeply he loved his loved ones and how sacrificial he could be; it’s like his defining characteristic. Eren was violent outwardly and inwardly, which is partially why I loved his character and still do--he’s very uncommon as a protagonist.

Despite him being an uncommon protagonist, I figured he was still a protagonist so like, tropes still apply. The hero who sacrifices his life to save what he believes in at the end is pretty common as a trope--think Harry Potter, Jack from Titanic, Braveheart, Buffy, Anya, Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (some of whom are brought back but still), Tony Stark in Avengers--it is one of the most common tropes in fiction across the world (probably because it’s intrinsic thematically to several major religions) and one regularly addressed in manga/anime as well (such as Kaneki Ken specifically wishing for and being denied this in Tokyo Ghoul, and Historia in SnK, which I really should’ve taken as a clue SnK might not go for that either but SnK itself isn’t entirely opposed to the heroic sacrifice as Erwin shows us sooo).

Eren really, really wanted to be a hero, and was at a low point when Historia pointed out to him he did not have to be a hero, he could just live. I guess I thought he would become a hero, and have to choose between being a hero/throwing away humanity (which is something Erwin and Armin often struggled with) and living in the end as a person, and would probably choose to be a hero a la Erwin. I was wrong lol.

Once chapter 100 rolled around, I knew he was doomed, and Mikasa, our thematic heart, confirmed it in 101 (or 102?) when she said “that’s already irredeemable.” There was no chance for happy ending (the point of tragedy is that there always is a chance, but that was the moment where Eren had closed that door because actions always have consequences in stories). I still thought this would serve as the impetus for Eren to be forced to choose a heroic sacrifice--like Erwin, again--that even if you had been a monster in some cases you can still be a hero to others (this is Reiner’s arc but without the sacrifice, hopefully). Basically, redemptive death on a massive worldwide scale for Eren, which would probably also cost him his brother, whom I thought he’d have to kill. (Keep in mind if you kill a shadow version of yourself in stories you usually die yourself, which we see with Armin and Bertolt before they were then forcibly integrated and even to an extent with Mikasa and Annie where they both took time off from development after Annie’s capture. SnK is all about tough choices where peaceful idealistic solutions are impossible, so I thought they’d make Eren make such a choice.)

And then the reveal that Eren as the villain happened and I still think that’s my favorite reveal in the series because I was shocked but also satisfied.

For Eren, you really need to talk to @linkspooky who was almost disturbingly spot on with all her predictions and was calling it long before that reveal, and also doubted Zeke was the final villain. Also tell her to do a victory lap; she’s earned it but is too humble.

[radishaur]

If the zuko requests are still open, may I request hcs or a short story (whatever you prefer) of zuko x artist reader where he first joins the gang and the reader wants to show support to him but they’re way too shy and awkward so they just secretly give him drawings to cheer him up or offer advice?? Maybe he has a crush on them but thinks they too don’t trust him yet? I just had this general idea. You could totally change stuff up if you’d like :)

“Sorry! I was the person who just asked the artist reader! I didn’t put a gender but maybe female? The reader could be a nonbender if that’s fine? Sorry about that :)”

Absolutely! I love the artist trope so much. Some of my favorite Zuko fics have had the reader as an artist. I hope I meet your expectations! I may have gotten carried away but oops. I just love this trope.

- Zoe

•••

Drawings (Zuko x Reader)

Warnings: None

Genre: Fluff

Part: 1/1

Summary: See Request

•••

“Hello, Zuko here.”

As soon as we heard his voice, everybody sprung into action. Well, everybody except me. Toph, Katara, and Aang got into bending positions and Sokka prepared to throw his boomerang. I stood slightly off to the side in shock.

He looked different than the last time I had seen him. It seemed to be a pattern. Each time I saw him after a while, he always had a new hairstyle and seemed more....himself. He seemed like a completely different person than the angry ponytail adorning teenager that had invaded the Northern Water Tribe.

That was the first time I had seen him. I unknowingly helped him by saving him from drowning. I had pulled him out from under the ice in a drain pipe on the day of the siege. He wasn’t wearing Fire Nation clothing then, so I didn’t know better until I saw him fighting Katara and capturing Aang. I felt so bad about almost dooming the world to eternal hell that I left the tribe to join them on their adventures.

The next time I saw him was when his Uncle was hit and then later in Ba Sing Se. I was shocked to see him serving tea in the lower ring of an Earth Kingdom town, but I didn’t rat him out. Instead, I took to sketching him. I would sit outside the shop and look in through the windows. His hair was longer now and I couldn’t deny how handsome he was. Without the ponytail I had a hard time denying it.

And now, as he stood here in the temple, I saw the next version of him. The Zuko with longer hair and a deeply rooted regret. He was shy and awkward, much like he had been in Ba Sing Se, but this time he wasn’t confused. He didn’t look like he was fighting any inner battles anymore. He just looked hopeful. Hopeful that he could change the path he chose for himself.

It wasn’t until I heard him say my name that I realized I hadn’t been listening.

“You saved my life in the Northern Water Tribe. And you didn’t rat me out in Ba Sing Se when you found out I was there. You had to have seen something good in me,” he pleaded.

“You knew he was there?! And you didn’t say anything?!” Katara yelled angrily, sending a glare in my direction.

I hung my head in guilt before looking back up at Zuko. My heart ached seeing the expression he wore, but I knew I was already in hot water.

“I’m sorry Zuko. If they don’t trust you then neither do I,” I said before turning and walking away.

I didn’t want to stay. I knew exactly what would happen if I did. I wouldn’t be able to watch him walk away without insisting they were wrong about him. My mother used to say my unwavering trust in people was both a blessing and a curse. I see now that she was right.

Katara stayed angry at me for the rest of the day. I didn’t blame her. Even I still felt guilty that I had kept it a secret after he betrayed us. Although I guess you can’t really betray a side you were never on. Nevertheless it still stung.

Just as I had come to terms with the fact that Zuko would never be a part of the team, he managed to save us from Combustion Man. Aang agreed to have Zuko as his teacher after the group agreed he could stay. Secretly, I was glad they had changed their minds. I knew that it would take a long time for them to get used to him being around though, so I decided to try and do something small to make him feel less alone.

After everybody went to sleep, I decided to draw him a picture of his Uncle. I had seen him frequently when I was outside the tea shop. My memory was a little bit rough on the details but I hoped that he would look similar enough. I ripped the paper out of my sketchbook and slipped it under his door.

The next morning, he seemed to be a little bit brighter which made me smile. After that it ended up becoming routine. Everybody would go to sleep and I would slip him another drawing. Sometimes I would shove them under his door, sometimes I would stuff it into his bag of stuff, and sometimes I would leave it somewhere I knew he would find it. Each time, he would always look a little happier afterwards.

It wasn’t until we were on Ember Island that my little secret became not so secret.

I had never told any of the gang that I could draw. I mean it seemed like such a useless talent compared to their bending. Even Sokka knew how to fight with a sword. When it came to fighting I was a complete waste. I couldn’t bend and I had never learned how to defend myself. The Northern Water Tribe had a strict rule about women learning how to fight: they didn’t.

It wasn’t until we were sitting out around a campfire that the fact I could draw was even discussed. Everybody had been going around the circle and sharing a secret. When it got to me, I shrugged it off.

“I don’t really have any secrets. I’m pretty boring,” I said.

“That’s such a lie! I know you have at least one secret,” Sokka said, a cheeky grin on his face.

“W-What?” I asked, my heart racing slightly.

“I’ve seen your sketchbook. You’re an amazing artist,” he continued, acting all casual.

“Sokka!” I exclaimed, a blush now breaking out across my face.

“You can draw?” Zuko asked in shock.

He seemed to be connecting the dots in his head and I wanted nothing more than to dig myself into the ground and disappear. I just hoped they didn’t-

“I wanna see it!” Aang said gleefully.

I just hoped they didn’t ask to see it.

“I really don’t want to-“ I began to reply before Katara cut me off.

“I bet it’s in her stuff!” she called out before shooting up and going to grab my stuff off of Appa.

I felt my heart drop into my stomach.

“No!” I yelled out, running after her.

If they looked at it I would die on the spot. Not only would Zuko realize that I was the one giving him drawings, but they would all see the million sketches I had of him as well. Oh boy, there were a lot. Technically I had sketched all of them, but Zuko took up about half the sketchbook. It would be mortifying for them to figure out I had a massive crush on him.

“I found it!” Katara said as she held the sketchbook in her hands.

“Give me that,” I said, snatching the book out of her hands before holding it tightly to my chest.

“Oh, come onnnnn,” Sokka begged, coming closer to try and grab it from me.

I hastily avoided him and continued clutching the sketchbook for dear life.

“Guys, maybe we should leave it,” Zuko said, clearly not wanting to escalate the situation.

Little did he know why I was actually protecting this sketchbook so heavily. He probably thought it was just because I didn’t want them to see my art. Which, technically I didn’t, but not because I thought it was bad. I gulped as Sokka began cornering me.

“Y/N please,” Aang pleaded, standing next to Sokka, “We promise not to judge! We just wanna see!”

“I really don’t think that’s such a good idea,” I responded, shifting the book behind me.

I gasped when I felt the book get ripped from my grasp. I turned around to see Katara, smiling victoriously as she brought the book out by the campfire. Sokka and Aang ran over to her.

I dragged my hands down my face. I’m sure it was about as red as a tomato at this point. Is this what it felt like to die? I watched them from my position a few feet away, too scared to move.

“Hey, these are amazing!” Aang said.

I couldn’t help but catch Zuko’s gaze. The recognition in his eyes made it clear he knew I was the one slipping him drawings. I felt my face burn in embarrassment. And this wasn’t even the worst part.

I stayed rooted to the ground as the gang flipped through the pages. The beginning of the sketchbook was just drawings of the Northern Water Tribe. Then, it morphed into drawings of all of the gang minus Toph. Not that she could even see. She was still sitting on the log bench, not invested in the situation at all.

The next pages had some sketches of Zuko with his ponytail, mixed with some sketches of the oasis. They were still just complimenting the drawings, oblivious to the horror the next few pages would cause me. Eventually, it moved into drawings of our travels across the Earth Kingdom and Toph began to appear.

After that was the pages I was dreading. The first few drawings were of Ba Sing Se. Innocent drawings of beautiful buildings and random citizens. But then it turned into Zuko. Pages upon pages of Zuko and his Uncle in the tea shop. They all got quiet as they continued flipping. Mixed in with Zuko and his Uncle were some few other sketches, but it was clear that Zuko had become the focus of the sketches.

I couldn’t bear to look at them. I could only imagine their expressions. If they hadn’t figured out by now why Zuko was the center of my drawings, they would as they kept going.

The next sketches were of some of the Fire Nation villages we had stayed in. But after that, there Zuko was again. And this time they would definitely know. Some of my sketches were accompanied by scrawled notes on the side. A random look how cute he is or he looked so hot training with Aang today scribbled next to the sketches. The silence was so thick it could be cut with a knife.

“Y/N, I-“ Sokka started, clearly feeling guilty for bringing up my secret talent now.

“Don’t” I hissed, finally sending a glare his way.

I hadn’t even realized I was crying until I felt the taste of salt brush my lips. I wiped my tears angrily as they all sat there silently.

“Y/N-“ he tried again.

“I said don’t!” I screamed before storming off to my room.

I slammed the door behind me and made sure to lock it before I slide to the floor. I held a hand to my mouth to muffle the sobs that were now escaping me. This was my worst nightmare. How had everything gone to shit so fast.

•••

Y/N had run off and I was stuck to my seat. I couldn’t stop looking at her sketches. They way she drew me felt like I was looking in the mirror. It was like watching my transformation as a person with my own two eyes.

“Guys, we really messed up,” Sokka said, still feeling guilty for instigating the situation.

“I had no idea....I just thought she was self conscious of her talent,” Katara said quietly.

“What do we do?” Aang asked.

“You’re the Avatar! You’re supposed to know how to solve this,” Sokka exclaimed, throwing his hands up in the air.

I wasn’t listening. I wasn’t even sure I could hear them. I flipped the next few pages and my thoughts were confirmed when I saw that there were a few pages ripped out of the back. I pulled one of her drawings out of my pocket and unfolded it, placed the ripped edge into the book. It was a perfect match.

“Zuko, what are you doing? You shouldn’t rip pages out of her book,” Katara scolded, reaching down to snatch the book away from me.

“I didn’t. She’s been giving me drawings. Look,” I explained, pulling out another of her drawings from my pocket, “Ever since I joined you guys at the temple I’ve been getting drawings. I didn’t know who it was, but....”

I handed the drawings over to them. One of them was of my Uncle. Another one was of my duel swords. Another of a tiny dragon. They ranged from simple tiny sketches to full blown detailed drawings.

As they looked them over, I couldn’t help but let my fingers trace a drawing of me in her book. I was smiling and looking off into the distance at something. Under it, in her neat scribbled handwriting was written: the first time he’s smiled :).

“I can’t believe she likes me,” I whispered.

I didn’t expect them to hear me, but they all stopped. I blushed slightly when I noticed them all looking at me. Katara looked furious.

“Listen here. You don’t have to like her back, but don’t you dare say anything to her that will break her heart,” she threatened, her eyes glaring into me.

“N-No! I......like her back.....actually,” I admitted, looking back at the sketches in her book.

I saw the three of them look at Toph, who had been sitting silently on the log the entire time.

“He’s not lying,” she said.

It was after a few moments of silence that I finally spoke again.

“I think I should go talk to her,” I suggested, standing up with her sketchbook in hand.

“Good luck,” Aang said, giving me an assuring smile as I walked inside.

I didn’t know what I was going to say. I didn’t know where to even start. There were a millions things I could say to her and none of them would be good enough. Instead, I found myself standing outside of her door in silence.

I took a deep breath and knocked. I could hear shuffling inside the room. I got no response.

“Y/N it’s me. Please let me in,” I begged, placing my palm against the door.

I was about to turn and walk away when I finally heard footsteps inside. I let my hand fall back down to my side as the door creaked open. Y/N stood to the side of the door without looking at me and motioned for me to come in. I did and she closed the door behind me.

“I’m sorry.” “Thank you.”

“Oh, ummmm. You first,” she mumbled.

“I wanted to say thank you. For the drawings. They made my day every time I got one,” I said, rubbing the back of my neck as I blushed.

“O-Oh. Uh....yea. You just looked so....sad, I guess. I thought maybe it would make you feel more comfortable around us,” she mumbled, still refusing to look at me.

I chuckled slightly and crossed my arms, looking down at my feet.

“Well it worked,” I said, smiling at the floor.

She shuffled across from me. I forced myself to look up at her and caught her gaze. She had tears brimming over her eyes and her face was red from embarrassment.

“I’m so sorry. I know I probably seem like a total creep right now. I know this can never happen. I just.....I don’t know. I tried so hard not to like you but I -“ she started rambling and I couldn’t stop myself anymore.

I pulled her face up to look at me and smashed my lips onto hers. It took her a moment of shock to register what was happening, but as soon as she did she was kissing me back immediately. I finally pulled apart and wrapped my arms around her in a hug.

“You’re amazing. You’re so special and so talented and too good for me. But I like you too. I like you so so much. I never said anything because I thought you hated me,” I admitted, laughing through the tears that started falling down my face.

“You thought I hated you? How could I ever hate you?” she asked, stepping back to look at me.

“Because I went home with Azula and I tried capturing the Avatar for months and I chased you across the world and I’ve made your lives miserable for so long,” I exclaimed, still in disbelief that she actually liked me back.

“Well, I don’t hate you. At all. You’ve proven that you’ve changed and that’s all that matters to me. Besides, you never actually physically hurt any of us, unlike Azula,” she joked, laughing slightly.

I pulled her into a hug once more and buried my head into her neck. I had never been happier than right now in this moment. I promised myself at that very moment that I would do everything I could to become the man she saw me as. To become the man she deserved.

To be the man in her drawings.