#and like spn did not actually end up being a Horror show but it had leanings that way and like incest is very much an established trope

[billiewena]

FOUR YEARS SINCE NOV 5TH, 2020, as summed up by Supernatural

past recaps: year one / year two / year three / year four

full context and sources below:

various explanations + resources/sources/extra reading on this year's recap:

balls deep: misha collins says the quiet part out loud at Cross Roads 8 Supernatural Convention, saying "if the CW wasn't so homophobic dean and cas would've been balls deep for sure" at a con (x) (x) (x)

garthbenny canon: supernatural actors DJ Qualls (who played hunter-turned-werewolf Garth Fitzgerald) and Ty Olsson (who played the vampire Benny Lafitte) reveal they're married, delighting crack shippers like myself everywhere (x)

spn spooky picture book: official supernatural children's picture book is released, retconning things like john winchester as a happy father figure and castiel being their cowardly childhood friend who sorta hangs around (x) (x)

boop button: tumblr introduces a feature people enjoy for once for april fool's day and halloween and allows users to boop each other, spn bloggers re-awake like sleeper agents to use it in full force (x) (x)

bedlund speaks on destiel: former spn writer ben edlund goes on a tweet fest replying to fans, talking about destiel multiple times including this profound tweet (x)

clear text, not subtext: jensen speaks out again on the confession at Purcon 8, this time taking a more open stance on how the relationship was textual, his take on dean's feelings about cas's feelings, and how the scene with cas deserved a resolution (x)

bury your gays: famed author chuck tingle (known for his plethora of highly specific and delightfully inclusive, if strange, indie erotica novels) publishes his second mainstream horror novel, inspired by TV network studios' infamous history of censoring LGBT relationships and openly killing off queer characters. In a non-subtle nod to supernatural fans, the main character is named misha. (sidenote: did end up reading this and this book is actually really good commentary on the industry in general and really good, 10/10 recommend) (x) also someone got the book signed by misha, to further break the fourth wall (x)

tracker: jensen ackles begins starring in a CBS show where he is basically csoplaying dean winchester, with the show featuring many non-subtle spn references (i.e. him pretending to almost get in an impala before going to his truck, characters wearing spn necklaces, etc.) (x) (x) (x) (special shout-out to clarice @youre-only-gay-once for expertly tracking the tracker show and these easter eggs, highly recommend their tag for their show)

cw's walker cancelled: fans rejoiced upon hearing the cancellation news for jared's post-supernatural show, walker, a remake of "walker texas ranger." in addition to generally being a copaganda show for the notoriously racist texas rangers, jared's inspiration for the show's direction caused much concern. the actor himself said the show was inspired by the US border crisis, not by the immigrant families affected by the separation and internment, but instead wanting exploring the POV of the law enforcement agents working at the border and the moral dilemmas they had to face (x)

pro-destiel Wonder Woman: Lynda Carter (aka the iconic and beloved original actress for Wonder Woman, not the z*onist one) says she could "go for some Destiel" when promoting #GeeksandNerdsforHarrisWalz and Misha's involvement (x) the rest of the spn cast and original Showrunner Kripke were also a big part of this event

chili's backfire: the chain restaurant chili's drags destiel while interacting with 9-1-1 bucktommy shippers on twitter, immediately gets backfire. notably, their stock takes a dip the next day. coincidence? maybe so, maybe not (x) (x)

samgirl voting fraud: "who is the gayest spn character" tumblr poll surprisingly gets heated, with a blogger straight-up admitting they used a bot on the "castiel vs. sam" poll to rig the poll in sam's favor, which they apparently also did for w*ncest in another poll in the past, and posting a guide on how anyone could do the same. luckily democracy wins in this one instance and castiel prevails anyways, leading to an also contested "castiel vs. charlie bradbury" round (x) (x)

pink pony jarpad: jared is spotted at lesbian pop star chappell roan's set at a festival, un-likely place for him to be (x) also may have been one of the "boring" people called out by chappell? (x)

pro-kamala castiel: in a last-ditch effort to get out the vote, misha uses the power of castiel photo ops to campaign for harris-walz and even shouts-out destiel. I feel depressed writing this sentence, if you've made it this long in your read and you're in the states I hope you're doing alright! maybe by the time I wake up things will be a little different though. (x)

[wastemanjohn]

i'm not at all bothered about people disliking john because entirely valid tbh and someone else's opinion changes nothing for me. i just think the militant anti john brigade - that is, those that make up textually unsupported and entirely leftfield reasons to dislike him - are really missing out.

the thing is, we've got an absolute buffet of an interesting and irreparably fucked up character here. we could debate the absolute Horrors of john winchester and his a+ parenting for days on end literally from the two seconds of screentime he had. because he does suck! it's totally fair to say that canon john is selfish, neglectful and at best emotionally abusive. now i'm defo no apologist (see username) - but he's also the furthest thing from a cardboard shitty abusive dad. there is serious context for the things he does and the way he thinks.

john's life was hell man. his own dad, for all he knew, abandoned him. he went to war young and almost certainly came back with ptsd. these things alone don't exactly make life easy but then your wife burns to death on a ceiling and you're left a widower and a single dad to a baby and a pre schooler before you're even thirty? then discover that it couldn't even be a plain old housefire but no - there is actual Evil out there and you and your children are not safe and never will be?

the desire for revenge is understandable. the desire to do stupid and paradoxically dangerous things to protect your children are understandable. right, good or healthy? no. but understandable. and that's what makes a good sympathetic character.

basically i think a lot of negative readings of john exaggerate the badness of his intentions and ignore his humanity. it's also understandable that john is not a beacon of emotional regulation. it's also understandable that he cant always balance being emotionally and physically there for his kids with Fighting The Horrors. pour alcohol misuse onto this dumpster fire and you're not getting a perfect person, or a perfect parent. you're getting a broken human who was focused only on keeping his kids safe, alive, protected, and able to protect themselves. sure, he had tunnel vision about it. he did it very badly. he controlled sam as the youngest and parentified dean as the oldest. he made sam feel misunderstood and smothered. he made dean feel completely responsible for the welfare of his brother and dependent on john's praise and approval as his second in command.

john fucked his kids up IMMEASURABLY. he thought he was doing the right thing.

also - remember young john? remember how he's softly spoken and loves his cars and adores his girlfriend and respects his fucking elders and, to quote mary, "believes in happy endings"? remember the doting dad we see for like a minute in the pilot? is that not meant to show us that, had his life not taken the turn it did - he would likely have been an entirely different person? how is the tragedy of that not also completely DELICIOUS??

so why homophobic john? why john who beat dean senseless regularly? why john who gave no shits and wanted his boys to be miserable? why these embellishments that make him someone else, someone with nothing good inside of him, when what canon gives us is so much better?

come on guys. the tragic messy sad angry selfish HUMAN john we got in the show is an absolute treat. why are we making him an irredeemable, unfeeling and uncomplicated asshole who doesn't give a shit about his boys. ya'll saw him spending a good 50% of his screen time crying about how much he loved them right? and sam and dean KNEW he loved them. they also knew, or in dean's case came to realise, that he was a terrible father in many ways. real life is messy and nuanced. families are messy and nuanced. and imo spn got this so right.

[arwenadreamer]

Why I love the SPN finale so much

There are exactly 4 possible ways the show could have ended for our boys.

a) Both Sam and Dean live

b) Both Winchesters die together

c) Sam dies

d) Dean dies

So why do I think d) was the best possible outcome? Lets have a look at the different scenarios.

a) Both Sam and Dean live

While it would have been nice, I dont think it would have really concluded the show. "There will be peace when you are done." Well, on earth they would never have been truly done. There would always have been another horror lurking just around the corner, even if it was just a Monster of the Week. To find true peace, I think the boys had to enter heaven. And we actually had a bit of the they were done and lived happily on earth scenario in that domestic life openening of the finale. For the boys to live would just have meant more of the same, seasoned with hurts and horrors and a sprinkle of pain on top.

b) Both Winchesters die together

I wouldn't have minded that. It sure would have made for a tragic ending. In fact, that was what I kind of was hoping for, at least I imagined that this would be how the finale would go. Both boys going down swinging, blaze of glory style, preferably dying hand in hand, saying something like "Good night Sammy" or "See you on the other side, Dean". But in retrospect I see that this would have robbed us of their 7 Minute good bye scene. Of all the things Dean needed to say to Sam because he was saying good bye for quite a while. Of Sam being devastated and breaking down with his dead brother in his arms. There would have been no need for love confessions and "I must have stood outside your dorm for hours" and "When it came down to it it has always been you ... and me". Because they just could have picked up their normal conversation on the other side.

c) Sam dies

Dean would have comitted suicide right after burning Sams corpse. Jensen said so, and regarding Deans feelings and intentions, Jensens words are as good as canon to me.

I wouldnt have minded the tragedy of that, but in that case it really would have had an undertone of suicide ideation, which enough people scream about Dean's death as it is. (And which it really, really wasnt!)

c) Dean dies

Did I cry my eyes out? Yes. But the show I love is a drama show. Otherwise I`d choose a feelgood comedy show.

I wouldnt have minded for Sam to follow Dean soon after, to be honest. Maybe by being extra careless on hunts. But in keeping fighting, living through the grieve and pain day by day and coming out strong enough on the other side to actually have a kid and give him a stable, loving home, the message of the finale was actually so powerful. Opposite of glorifying suicide, it said "hold on, stay strong, there is a light at the end of all this trauma and horror and darkness you currently walk through".

The best part about the finale is, though, that it did not end there. Supernatural DID. NOT. END. WITH. DEAN'S. DEATH!!!

SUPERNATURAL ENDED ON A BRIDGE!!!!

I would have hated it, if the end of the show would have been the brothers seperated. But they weren`t. The show literally ended with the boys arm in arm, looking out over a peaceful valley in a heaven better than the one they knew from before.

There was peace and they were done. Together.

[boilingheart]

Headcanon that Riptide and Blood in the Bayou exist in PD as a TV show and a movie respectively.

Riptide (TV) existed as a very long prolific pirate show, think some weird cross of Black Sails and Our Flag Means Death, but it got a Supernatural treatment. I’m talkin this shit started small, intending to be only 2 or 3 seasons long, but ended up with a long winded 16 seasons as the plots continued to develop further and further and escalate beyond imagination. By the time PD starts, the show has mercifully ended but the producers have been GUNNING for spinoffs (a Black Rose Pirates prequel has been rejected by the network three times; it may be for the best tbh)

Blood in the Bayou was originally an 80s horror movie, a classic, though relatively obscure. Hardcore movie goers have it, and collectors still have the original VHS copies (I have a separate personal headcanon that Mark likes to collect old stuff like old tech and classic physical media just for fun; he has the BitB VHS in the garage somewhere). Though it wasn’t really known by many, those who did know had a hardcore love for it. Enough so that eventually, BitB got picked up by some producers, and by modern day, Blood in the Bayou has had a full remake and is in theaters NOW

Some trivia about both medias: 

- The actor that played Chip in Riptide (TV) was cast to play Timothy Rand in the BitB reboot. Many are delighted that he’s now moving to movie work post-Riptide’s end, especially since he was an unknown young actor prior to the show. (He’s now 36 years old. He began the show at 19)

- The actor cast for Rolan Deep is actually related to William Wisp, in that he’s like, an uncle’s cousin somewhere further on the family tree. Not closely related, but...

- Kian Stone’s actor is painfully offline. He’s unfamiliar with fandom stuff to an incredible degree. He did a “reading your thirst tweets” for a video and didn’t understand half of what was being said about him. This makes his interactions with Rand’s actor, who is familiar with All Of It, even more entertaining.

- Riptide (TV) is effectively the SPN in the PD universe. Yes, you had a Riptide phase in high school. Come on now. Rumblr was all about it. Harlem had a Riptide phase.

“what about apotheosis!!” oh everything that happened in Apotheosis is Real, Actually. it’s just on another plane/world probably. 

(I haven’t watched Apotheosis idk anything about it but I like to imagine that everything there is very much real because that’s Funny to me)

[samwinchestermydude]

My Supernatural Journey I guess

I actually did go into spn fully expecting to ship Destiel. I came into SPN after watching Merlin, and I had often seen Merthur (my beloved) and Destiel likened together. I barely knew anything about Sam. I only found out that Sam existed because I saw that he was being shipped with his brother on the Ao3 ships polls last year. I didn't know if Sam was important or not because I hadn't seen much content about him. So I ended up calling him the hippie brother mentally.

The only things I thought I knew about Supernatural was that it had some religious stuff in it, Destiel was canon apparently, there were demons and stuff, and John really hated. My impression on Spn was this horror show that was featured this really tough macho dudes but the show was supposedly kind of gay??

I also followed this one person way back for discussing this one video game. They were an ex-supernatural fan way back but left because they found discourse surrounding destiel to be to exhausting. They also used to be a big Sam fan and shipped wincest. I like found the latter to be like really weird back then but man the tides have turned.

So I turned on the Spn pilot with my mom in the same room one day out of sheer boredom. Back then I was still considering Spn as that tumblr show. And then the rest was history, and I lost countless hours of my life obsessing over the show.

So first of all, I only saw one brief glance at Sam before voting for merthur in the wincest vs merthur poll (I'd have probably voted for wincest now lol) so I didn't really know who he was. To me initially he just looked like the 2nd big, gruff dude with long hair. And then I found out that the sweetest looking boy with the floppiest bangs was that guy, Sam.

Also I thought Dean was the younger brother for some reason before watching the show (Probably because Jackles just doesn't age lol). So I was really surprised to see that the little kid in the opening scene was Dean and that the baby was Sam. Oh and I was totally predicting that John died actually in the opening scene and that something else was pretending to be their father lol.

I think I fell in love with the show right away. There was just something really believable and palpable about the brother's estrangement and relationship from the start and I just wanted to see how it developed. S1 is just filled with great horror episodes, and I started watching around October so it was just perfect timing.

So Things that Ended Up Suprising Me the Most/Other Things

I actually ended up really liking John in s1. JDM was just stellar in his all scenes and brought an emotional and sincere side to John. He's tough for sure but he doesn't hide his feelings about his boys. Like you can see the tears in his eyes when they reunite. Also his speech about how he wants Sam and Dean to have normal lives and how he's tired and so broken up after seeing all his friends being killed by meg never fails to hit hard. Do I think John was a good father. No. But he did care about his boys truly. And while I do understand Fandom's widespread dislike of John it is disheartening to see him reduced to this unfeeling caricature. John's problem wasn't that he felt too little; it was that he felt to much and he never really properly managed it and it ended up hurting the his boys.

I thought Meg and Sam would maybe end up being a thing and was like :(((( (because I just liked the bros being by themselves even though I wasn't a wincest shipper at the time lol) but I was also like go Sam if thats what you want ig? Lmao Idk I just wanted Sam to be happy even back then. Anyways thank god that never happened.

Me falling in love with Sam.

Dean. I always saw a lot about him but never found myself to interested in him as all I saw was Destiel content with him. But I ended up falling in love with his character so hard in Devil's trap. When he begs John not to kill him :(((((((((. I think Devil's trap is one of my favorite episodes for Dean. It's when I started to understand him and his loyalty to his family really touched me.

1x22 was also the episode that convinced me SPN was going to be a insane show. Like what a season finale. I feel so bad for the fans who had to wait to watch s2. I actually jumped up and said it ends like that?! The car scared me so bad.

Around s2 I set my foot in the wincest fandom. Back then I thought you guys were scary but in a good way. But I was also getting really into the codependency at the time so I found myself starting to seek wincest out because well you guys just get it. And then Dean sold his soul for Sam and I looked up wincest fic for the first time with the intent to read fic about wincest. Before it was reading wincest fic despite the wincest and then well all hell blew loose (sorry I just had to).

First wincest fic I read: half the man i used to be by dollylux. I wasn't exactly a wincest shipper then. But I thought it was fucked up and strangely fitting to Sam and Dean's relationship and fucked up lives. It was probably the fic that got me into wincest.

I had a bit of an internal rule I set for myself back then where I could only read Wincest fics that were about them being in a fucked and toxic relationship because I felt bad reading fics about an incest ship. So I guess in my mind it cancelled out because then I thought then I wasn't romanticizing the incest lol. Idgaf now. I read anything about Sam/Dean if it's good.

When You're Not Here by raziella was the 2nd wincest fic I read. I read it because it's pretty much gen but it does have some wincest leanings. It's a really good fic.

I gave up Destiel even before s4. It was around in S3 after seeing Sam slowly go insane that I realized I wanted nothing more than the two brothers together.

I just realized that even if Destiel was canon or not nothing could be as important to Dean than Sam was and vice versa for Sam.

I actually was anxious about s4 because I didn't want the show to change that much and drift from the focus on the brothers.

S4 and s5 were really difficult to go through for me. I thought they were great television but it was too painful. I felt horrible seeing what happened to the brothers and how they drifted apart.

S4 Sam hair was probably my favorite.

[ananke-xiii]

"The Born-Again Identity" is one of those SPN ep that I like despite the fact that there are so many things in it that drive me a little bit insane (truth be told, in part it's only my fault cause I can never completely turn up the "suspension of disbelief" volume and I go to a default "but why?" mindset everytime I see something on screen, so okay it's a *just me* problem). However, I do think that S7 was not that bad and it had some quite intriguing and original ideas while the execution was... well, let's say clunky. So, all in all, I think this episode is kinda cool.

the things that drive me a little bit insane:

the imagery of sam desperately running alone in the night along some tracks in a supposedly dangerous part of town. The "derailing" and "going off the tracks" symbolism was a bit on the nose; him buying drugs from the "tweaker" and sleeping with the guy in his car: mmm I feel like that was, like. a lot. to be just thrown away like that.

sam being admitted to the hospital with no mention of said drugs use and the whole scene with the doctor telling dean that they had to put sam in the locked psychiatric floor. I don't know, it also feels like.a lot. and.all of a sudden. they could ease into that way better, it's too ham-fisted as in: we have to find a way to put sam in an horror asylum-like facility in less than 5 minutes for the ep to make sense. so that what feels like to me.

daphne. everything about her drives me insane. I have a whole story where she has to clean up the mess dean has made and hide the body of the demon or something. she'll later start her own private hero's journey to find emmanuel and bring him back to their white picket fence life so perfect and so based on manipulation and stockholm syndrome.

the demons showing up at the grocery store. like what? it was established just a few scenes before when dean told the demon that he was "hands-off" or something and that the demon was actually looking for emmanuel. so why oh why would the other demons look for dean when there's emmanuel.alone.in.the.car. nonsense.

that one demon torturing sam with the electroshock. what was the point? why were demons there anyway? weren't the brothers hands off? maybe i missed something here but to me just felt like "asylum ep= electroshock scene is a must" and meh.

sam leaving the hospital.just.like.that and "swapping place" with cas. i'm sorry, what? i won't even comment on meg being suddenly hired as a nurse cause okay i want to give the writers that, but wtf? oh okay, this guy that has just showed up here (and has definitely possibly murdered 4 or 5 people at the entrance) is maybe not okay, let's not call his wife or someone, let's just lock him up. whaaaaat?

the quite intriguing and original ideas:

the cas/sam parallel: they are both evidently mentally unstable for very different reasons. cas has, in a way, "left the life" and dean, of all people!!!, is not 100% cool with him regaining his memories because what if he leaves???? sam is quite literally very close to leave life in general because the trauma is affecting his body in an irreversible way. they are both "born" again identities at the beginning and at the end of the episode. Very cooooool.

sam and lucifer interactions: the actors really did their job well in this ep cause everytime I watch it I'm exhausted, like I can't bear to hear Lucifer talk and talk and taunt and I definitely feel worn out like sam. I think Jared works very well with Mark Pellegrino, too bad that the whole Lucifer storyline was a mess in later seasons cause the actors had great chemistry.

meg. every scene with meg is just joy for me. and her storyline? left alone looking for "friends"? sure, she totally plans to use cas as her ally but what's new? (jokes aside, there's a whole pattern of women manipulating and using cas, am i the only one seeing it???).

marin. first of all, hello abigail????? (hannibal memories flooding in). second of all, cool MoTW-Not-So-Much-MoTW story. ofc she's a sam's mirror used to basically explain what happened to sam but the ghost who's tormenting her is also her brother and he must die-die-die because he won't let her go. hello??? paralleling sam's hallucinations with sam's issues with dean was super intriguing and too bad that the MoTW was Not-So-Much-MoTW cause marin's story was maybe not even 8 minute long.

bonus: "Peace of Mind" from S14 echoes this ep brillianty, they even cast one of the same actors (the doctor/the mayor) and they used the same surname for sam (sam smith/justin smith). cool cool cool (although unrelated to s7).

[eisforeidolon]

Tumblr shows me such horrendous posts sometimes especially from tags like #dean winchester People genuinely with their whole chest think that he could have been saved from that rebar with a first aid kit 😂(even though he obviously couldn't plus they didn't have gods power anymore) and also thinking he gave up lol as if he hasn't said all along how he knew he'd die a hunter, wanted Sam to have a peaceful life & him dying first was best case scenario. They never listen to Dean the show or Jensen

Oof, yeah. It's been ages since I braved the main tags because - at least on tumblr - this fandom is a trashfire of bizarre and ignorant opinions. Like, just as a thought exercise, let's give the maximum benefit of the doubt possible.

I can see, to an extent, why after the light fantasy irreverence of the Dabb years, someone might be wishfully tempted to forget SPN's horror roots and think the Winchesters might not die at the end. Except Jared and Jensen made it pretty clear every time they talked about the ending that they saw the Winchesters dead at the end, one way or another. Except even when we were full on in the hunting-is-a-lark and constant resurrect-o-rama of Dabbernatural, it was still a show that revolved around monsters and death almost as much as it did the brothers' relationship. Except how do you even end a show where the characters constantly bring each other back from the dead in a way that feels significantly final other than them accepting death?

I can see, to an extent, why there would be some confusion over the severity of injuries, because the show never took them as serious as they would be IRL, Chuck or no Chuck. TV in general is pretty terrible about that. Except as much as I loathe the concept of the Winchesters only being competent and surviving because of Chuck, it was a thing in the show. Except we're talking about being stabbed fully through the main body cavity where there are a lot of pretty vital things you can't live with shish-kebabed. Even if it would have been possible to survive that injury IRL as some kind of medical miracle, it would definitely require medical professionals for him to survive getting off that rebar and they were in a barn in the middle of freakin' nowhere - being realistic is not "giving up". Except we're talking about a fictional character where the entire point was that the writers had decided Dean was going to die then, so it was a fatal injury because it was written as fatal. Except I think it's pretty obvious some fans only wanted Sam rushing around trying to do first aid to avoid 7 minutes of incest Dean's speech showing Sam was still the most important person in Dean's life to the end and he was perfectly capable of saying I love you - despite their reams upon reams of meta claiming otherwise.

I am not in any way saying anybody needs to be happy that Dean died, or even needs like the finale. I actually agree Dean's lack of self-worth and fatalism about how he'd inevitably die fighting monsters relatively young (especially when he said that in a particularly low moment) aren't good things, so him being ultimately right is actually really fucking sad. As is Sam getting the normal life he once wanted when IMO he no longer particularly wants it and it's at the expense of losing Dean after all they'd been through together. Disappointment, even disappointment one should reasonably have seen coming, is totally fair. The ending is meant to be bittersweet with the sweet part coming from the heaven reunion, and even dismissing delusional shippers? Not everybody is going to like that kind of ending. Except there's disappointment and then there's being really fucking weird about that disappointment by insisting a tv show owed you to end the way you wanted and further, it personally wronged you because no one tried to put a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. Also, a character dying from doing something dangerous and acknowledging they are dying when they get a fatal wound doing it instead of trying to insist they're okay is ... endorsing suicidal themes.

[shinelikethunder]

#so real #s2 is my favorite but the antiblack racism is at its worst in that season with the way gordon was handled at times imho #which is painful 2 watch!!! #the way they did gordon in s3 with his (unfortunate) death was much more compelling #but hunted and blood lust are kinda cringey even tho the episodes should be very good #okay now i want to make a vid about gordon.... (@eroticcodependency)

YEAH. spn writers hate black people more than they love a wide-open opportunity to explore the burdens and pitfalls of the kind of legacy john winchester saddled his sons with, and it fucking blows.

(under the readmore: long-ass, mixed-to-negative rant about how s2 and s3 treated gordon, henriksen, and to some extent also bela, with some disorganized attempts to salvage the good and repair the bad.)

that s3 gordon episode is actually on my perma-shitlist, despite being some amazingly sick shit, because it manages to combine the Bloodlust/Hunted episodes' racism and eagerness to villainize black men (in ways that aren't even consistent with the core concept of gordon's character! just gratuitous cartoon-baddie shit!) with Croatoan's "straight people write a barely-veiled AIDS allegory about a trust-us-it's-incurable bloodborne disease that turns you into a subhuman deviant driven to maliciously infect others." like, s3 backs off but doesn't totally stop with that shit, and i find it intensely irritating every time the show does it. shut up, spn, you don't have any coherent commentary to offer about any of this and you do have terminal foot-in-mouth disease, so play to your strengths and stay in your fucking lane and stick to The Horrors, for the love of god.

and the thing is that they almost, ALMOST had me with "gordon has found a fucked-up crusade that's so important to him that, even after being turned into the very thing he's out to exterminate, he's willing to postpone his own honorable suicide to complete it." and then they had him turn an innocent bystander into a vampire just for the sake of a shitty jumpscare and they lost me forever. fuck Fresh Blood, Fresh Blood is dead to me, if i want sick shit then i can selectively import some post-kripke content because the s6 vamp episode and Alex Annie Alexis Ann are right there. (highly recommend 6x05 and 9x19 as sick-shit standalones, btw, if you're up for opening that door.)

re: s3 backing off but not completely, see also: Jus in Bello, contrived moral dilemma that we are just now going to start wringing our hands over despite having become shockingly okay shockingly fast with murdering possessed people for convenience, plus the gratuitous offscreen death of a compelling, brimming-with-potential, super fun black character for the cheapest of cheap pathos. i LOVE all of henriksen's actual screentime, and i love this episode, and i also - with immense affection - want to smash a fucking bottle over its head and start a barroom brawl with it. and i love it despite that, because unlike the s2 morality-of-hunting eps, it mostly has better things to do than masturbate to its own worst life choices.

(some of the misogyny in early seasons follows similar patterns - especially bela and how fucking offended sam and dean, implicitly backed by the writing, were by her entire existence. over a "shamelessly-mercenary rogue and sometime ally" schtick that was written to be charming when crowley picked up the exact same role. she does get a sympathetic backstory in the end, and there's a charitable reading where dean in particular is lashing out because he's never met a mirror he isn't desperate to smash. but the show never really complicates its "odious and contemptible and obnoxious enough to drive a man to violence just interacting with her" take on the present-day self that her backstory is meant to explain.)

just... fuck, man, early seasons are SO eager to punish morally-gray marginalized characters, not just for their actual failings, but for the additional and far more viscerally outrageous sin of failing to conform to a safe type. and s3 is overflowing with them, and one of the reasons it's my favorite is because i am kidnapping them and becoming an apologist for them and constructing a revisionist spn in my head that gleefully shitcans the worst choices the show made about them. henriksen is alive and would've continued as a maverick-lawful-good wild card of an adversary/ally/reluctant inside man if he weren't holed up in paranormal witness protection; bela either weaseled out of her deal or became a demon and possessed mark sheppard; gordon is a well-constructed parallel for john winchester's bitter murderous obsessive extremist tendencies, he would die before bringing a single additional vampire into the world, and the moral transgression sam and dean should have agonized over was the proxy murder attempt of calling the fucking cops on him when he was armed.

(god, you know what would've been SO good? if they'd set gordon's subplot of Hunted after Born Under a Bad Sign and given him a personal fucking motivation for wanting to hunt sam down, and for believing his slide into evil was inevitable because he'd already proved he was "susceptible" to demonic influence. gordon doesn't have a lot of friends; it'd be easy to see how sam killing one of them while possessed by meg would set him off even harder than s1 meg doing the same to john in Salvation.)

spn s2 does have one of the highest hit rates of total banger episodes in the entire show, but it also has one of the highest hit rates of episodes that are both good AND make me want to fistfight the writers in a back alley. and it's because every time the show tries to engage with the morality of monster-hunting it comes up with something incoherent, contrived, terribly executed, and/or offensive, then proceeds to proudly jerk off about it.

s3 doesn't hit the same highs (and has more than its fair share of goofy crap) but overall it's where the show peaked for me, because they mostly backed off on that bullshit and were just like. here. here's an ensemble cast who are all varying degrees of Bastard. enjoy the shenanigans as they all try to kill, fuck over, and/or team up with one another, while in the background the ticking clock grows ever louder and the desperate longing gets thick enough to choke on. it will not end well. have fun.

[satanisnotapogostick]

disliking it is perfectly reasonable but being shocked that early seasons spn spawned wincest is odd to me. like of course it did

[autisticandroids]

Okay so this was a while back but im preety sure you had mentioned an au of yours where dean is a serial killer and cas successfully stalks him but i don't think you talked about it more than that and i just really want to hear a bit more bc that idea sounds so tastefully fucked up

okay so. weeks later i finally end up answering this ask. it inspired this post btw. anyway spn is a show that's like. all about justifications, as i said in the post inspired by this ask. it's about having no choice and doing what you have to do. and like there is the phantasy embedded in it, a phantasy that is both indulged and punished. but most importantly it's justified. the monsters are super strong to show how brave our heroes are for fighting them, the main characters let out great wails of grief every time their lady loves are violently ripped from them (even though now they are free to do whatever they want), the narrative twists to show our heroes as correct whatever they do. the fantasy (of being allowed to enact violence, of being free from feminine "control," of being right) comes first. the material construction of the universe of supernatural comes afterward. whatever the fantasy is, the universe of supernatural will provide material conditions to justify its acting-out.

and what this means is that our protagonists, dean in particular, are constantly doing just horrific things, which in any other circumstance would be unconscionable. but the universe of supernatural provides justification for these acts. the point of my serial killer au which i think about so so so much is to ask the question: what if these justifications melted out from under their feet? what if dean was left holding nothing but a lie and the weight of everything he's done?

therefore, the premise of my au is such (under the cut because this baby is long):

john and mary winchester, in the mid seventies, joined a doomsday cult known as the men of letters. the men of letters were rather unusual for a doomsday cult, in that they believed that the apocalypse could be prevented by human behavior. this started as correct living, correct worship, yadda yadda, the kind of behavior and thought control that cults are known for, but with the justification of: if you don't do this, the world will end. eventually, this escalated to human sacrifice. the men of letters managed to untraceably kill two homeless people in the late seventies. but they eventually fell apart. however, a month after john and mary left the men of letters (mostly john's choice, mary still believed), mary died in a house fire. john took it as a sign from god that actually, the men of letters were right, and the world would end unless john himself did something about it. so he took some of the (intensely numerological) theology of the men of letters. and he worked out his own formula. and he applied it to the yellow pages. and started ritualistically killed people to prevent the apocalypse, with his two sons in the back of the car.

now, obviously, this is some kind of grief induced temporary madness on john's part, shaped by the mental abuse he suffered in the men of letters. but the thing is, once you've killed a couple of people to prevent the apocalypse. well. there's this thing called the sunk costs fallacy. john wasn't gonna question his own beliefs after that.

and he raised his boys to believe it, too, or at least he raised dean to. they didn't tell sam what they did until he was twelve, and sam didn't buy it, tried to call the cops on them several times but in the end, they always prevented him. eventually sam ran off to stanford, where he now lives under a cloud of guilt that he's too loyal to his family to rat them out.

john died a few years back of a heart attack, but dean is convinced it's because he messed up a ritual two weeks before it happened, so it pushed him further into this belief system.

dean's killings (and john's before him) are ritualistic and distinctive, obviously the same killer each time. but they happen anywhere in the united states, seemingly at random, there are inconsistent amounts of time between each one (sometimes as short as days, sometimes as long as years), and there is no particular victim profile. obviously, since our killers are following an arcane mathematical formula to make their choices for them, but the police don't know that.

castiel novak is an unemployed shut-in with a small inheritance which he's living off of, a cryptography degree, and an obsession with all things morbid. he spends most of his time on the reddit true crime forums, playing amateur sleuth. by complete chance, he happens to recognize one of the symbols frequently used in corpse displays by the so-called sioux falls satanic slaughterer (so named because the first time three of his victims were in the same part of the country, it so happened that they were all in sioux falls, south dakota. this was in the late eighties.) as being mostly only used by a little known cult group called the men of letters, which dissolved in the mid eighties.

he only notices this because, as a teen, he had a special interest in cults and fringe religious groups. the men of letters weren't a particularly notable or well known phenomenon; they were small, and a lot like every other cult that formed during the seventies cult boom. (no outsider ever heard about the human sacrifice; there were rumors, of course, but they were garbled, sensationalized, and mixed up with satanic panic fodder.)

(the men of letters' two sacrifices were nothing particularly romantic or fantastical. they first lured panhandler josie sands back to their compound with promises of food and a warm bed when she admitted she couldn't get a bed at a shelter, and was thinking of getting caught shoplifting just so she could be under a roof in the county jail. the men of letters' leader, a man who took on the name alistair, forced his inner circle to dress in the ceremonial black robes he had given them when he initiated them into his nearest and dearest, and which his wife had sewn out of old bed sheets and dyed black with home made oak gall dye. these robes still left black smudges on the wearer's skin occasionally if they sweated too much. josie was laid, bound, on the altar, a slapdash thing constructed over the course of two days from scrap plywood and a couple of milk crates. a rich red tablecloth purchased at macy's for $3.99 hid its ugliness and gave it grandeur. alistair attempted to kill the struggling miss sands by bringing a sharpened kitchen knife down on her bosom and piercing her heart, but, having never killed a human or even slaughtered an animal before, was unaware of the problem presented by the human ribcage. after rather ineffectually poking at the area beneath sands' bosom with his knife while she shrieked in pain and terror for about ninety seconds, alistair tried a different tack, and slit her throat, which worked just fine, and she bled out quite nicely. the second and final victim of the men of letters was a local vagrant named larry ganem, an older gentleman who walked with a limp. he was lured back to the compound in approximately the same manner as sands, but instead of being bound, he was fed stew laced with sleeping pills. even if alistair hadn't slit his throat, he wouldn't have woken up. it's actually arguable whether he was still alive at time of sacrifice; mary winchester (eight months into her first pregnancy), who, as a member of the inner circle, was in attendance, actually tried to take ganem's pulse as he lay on the altar (now covered by a different tablecloth; the red one had turned stiff with sands' blood and been subsequently burned) and found nothing, so it is entirely possibly only sands' death can be directly laid at alistair's feet, and ganem's is the fault of mrs. ellen harvelle, who prepared the laced stew. regardless, these two deaths are lessons in the nature of human evil: it is very rarely skilled, suave, or smooth. it's often slapdash, half-hearted, and just plain incompetent. but that makes it no less grisly. alistair may have begun to drink his own kool-aid, as it were, and escalated this far out of genuine belief that the apocalypse was coming and it was up to him to stop it, but it is far more likely that he sensed the imminent collapse of his little empire, and wanted to bind his subjects to him through the horrors of shared guilt, considering two lives a small price to pay for the continued loyalty of his inner circle. and the tactic worked: the men of letters didn't start to collapse in earnest until almost four years later. perhaps if alistair had continued the killings, the men of letters could have lasted for far longer, maybe even up until the present day. but it seems that alistair, a psychiatrist by training and unused to violence, simply didn't have the stomach for it. unlike, say, john winchester, who before his time with the men of letters had done a two year tour in vietnam, during which he had killed three living, thinking human beings with the american government's go-ahead.)

anyway. castiel is the first person, ever, to make the connection between the men of letters and the sioux falls satanic slaughterer. and once that connection is made, castiel begins to research the men of letters far more in-depth. and he notices something: the theology of the men of letters was intensely numerological, filled with patterns, significant numbers, and even spiritual equations.

castiel thinks of the seemingly random selection of the slaughterer's victims, and has an epiphany.

he cracks all his fingers, and gets coding.

six months. it takes castiel six months to discover an equation that could fit the slaughterer's pattern. it's complex, but also clearly based on several of the men of letters' holy numbers, and accounts for every single one of the killings. it also suggests that there should have been two or three more deaths scattered across the years, but more than likely those did happen, it's just that they weren't reported as part of the slaughterer's portfolio.

but much more importantly, castiel's model can also make predictions. there will be two killings, fifteen days apart, in a city seven hours' drive away, six weeks from now.

so castiel waits. and he books a hotel room. and two months later, he's waiting outside 217 oak street when a shadowy figure climbs up a tree and lets itself into the upstairs window.

dean winchester is feeling particularly all alone in the world when he breaks into maisey banks' home (217 oak street). his father has been dead for half a decade, and he hasn't spoken to his baby brother for twice that. it's not like this whole grizzly saving the world business makes him a lot of friends. so once he's done killing maisey (which is easy, she was ninety three and dying of cancer anyway. she doesn't even wake up when he slits her throat) and arranging her corpse in the appropriate manner, with prayers and sigils, he turns around. and sees a man standing behind him.

smiling slightly.

as he watches dean gut this old woman.

dean freezes.

the man takes a step forward.

"you're very attractive for a serial killer who's been operating since the eighties."

dean is silent.

"family business, is it?"

silence continues.

"i'm not here to report you to police. i'm just here to see if my algorithm worked right."

and dean finally breaks his silence: "what the hell is wrong with you?"

what's fun here is that dean knows (or rather "knows") that he isn't a serial killer. so he finds what cas is doing, this amoral serial killer stormchasing, morally repugnant. because cas has no way of knowing he isn't a regular serial killer.

there's also the fact that that cas proceeds to flirt with him. aggressively. and follows him back to his motel.

but the thing is that dean is all alone in the world. and as cas continues trailing him around, he starts getting, well, flattered. and feeling a little bit less alone.

it doesn't take very long before they fall into bed. even if cas is an amoral stalker with a fetish for what dean considers a distasteful yet necessary vocation.

so. they fall into bed. they fall in love. they make a little life together, in dean's big sexy car. dean tries to explain to cas that he's saving the world. that these people's lives are a necessary price to pay. and cas seems to listen.

of course, castiel doesn't believe a word of it. but he's found that he likes dean. really likes him. and he realizes that the collapse of dean's belief system would destroy him.

so he sets about becoming as complicit in it as possible.

even to the extent where, when dean is hit by a car and ends up into the hospital a day before one killing is meant to take place, castiel agrees to take on the job. (he doesn't actually kill anyone, obviously. but he does use his extensive skill with computers to create three fake newspaper articles which make it look like he has.)

but five years later, something goes wrong. really, really wrong. dean miscalculates the formula. and by the time he checks his work, the actual date of the next kill, as demanded by the formula, has passed. in fact, so have three others. and the world didn't end.

dean collapses. he hyperventilates. all those people. all those people. for no reason. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people. all those people.

cas seems totally unfazed. dean stares at him in shock. but cas just takes dean in his arms, and whispers in his ear: "oh, dean, i never believed in the equation. i love you no matter what you've done."

and dean buries his face in cas' chest.

[ruinedsam]

3 and 8 for the ask game :)

3. Worst season of Sam?

Season 9. Season 10 is also horrible, but s9 is more vomit inducing for me. I literally can't rewatch any of it because it's just so, so terrible having to watch how the narrative beats on Sam. First he's abused and gaslighted for half a season, but the narrative ignores the (compelling) horror that comes with Sam's perspective and instead makes it about Dean and we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he feels bad. Then when Sam gets his body back, his very, very valid anger and hurt is framed as unreasonable and, again, we're supposed to feel sorry for Dean instead because evil Sam is mad at him for abusing him. There is no space for Sam's perspective, no space for his trauma. To make matters worse, the second half of the season introduces the utterly stupid, lame moc arc that is a copy of the demon blood arc minus literally everything that made it so compelling. Sam is sidelined and we're supposed to feel sorry for Dean for *checks notes* being an angry white man, as if the whole reason for getting the mark wasn't him running away in order to avoid taking responsibility for his abuse of Sam. (And yes, Dean tricking Sam into being possessed by an angel, taking away his bodily autonomy, and then gaslighting him, is abuse.) God I hate it so much, just writing this has made me angry again. To be clear, what I hate about it is the framing. I love Sam and Dean being fucked up and the gadreel arc had a lot of potential if they had only portrayed it as what it is about, the monstrosity of Sam and Dean's love and codependency, instead of framing it as Sam being an ungrateful asshole to poor selfless Dean. This is why Carver is my archnemesis.

8. Your opinion on Sam’s relationship with Dean?

Generally, I love the brother relationship. I mean it is the driving force of the show. I love their codependency, their all-consuming love that may save or destroy the world, i love them being committed platonic life partners, i love how fucked up they are - obviously there's nothing wrong with wanting a wholesome/healthy relationship in media but that's very much not what I want from my horror show. I live for Sam and Dean being weird, it makes me crazy in the best sense! It's so fascinating to me how difficult their relationship is to define because of the breakdown of bounddaries between them. And I don't really have the words to describe how much it means to me personally that spn made the core of the show a platonic relationship that was never once deprioritized in favor of sex/romance, and was always assigned the same level of significance usually only romatic relationships get.

However, I'm not always happy about what spn did with their relationship. Classic spn really did it the best, not only because it has generally the most coherent storytelling and character arcs, but because back then they actually cared about both Sam and Dean and gave both of them narrative space. Going back to what I said before, my issues are with framing. Sam and Dean's relationship got more and more unhealthy, more codependent and enmeshed, but also more volatile as Dean grew more agrressive and Sam grew more passive, and like I said, I don't mind that. I mind how spn frames this as normal and gives Dean all the narrative space while sidelining Sam. In mid seasons it was so bad, it was so chock-full of Dean abusing Sam and the narrative basically saying this is right Sam deserves this :) and I started to despise their relationship. Late seasons made me fall in love with them again, but nothing will ever come close to classic spn samdean.

I want this to end on a positive note because I bitched so much, so I want to say while there are things about Sam's relationship with Dean that strongly bother me in certain seasons, it is really satisfying and lots of fun to engage with and explore their relationship in fandom. And obviously their relationship has a really special place in my heart.

Ask Game Here but do not send me more asks, I should be doing other stuff

[you-cant-spell-subtext-without]

so get this. I was gonna roll around in Tombstone related fluff today - but no, no - this post came across my dash so Now We Are Gonna Discuss the Carnal Consumption of Meat as it appears on That Show Supernatural.  YEAH BUDDIES!

(also my sincere apologies to OP of the inspiration post who innocently tagged it with “lunch date!”  because I am about to go Elsewhere, cursedly).

Let’s all go meat man, after the cut!

This analysis centers primarily on 5x14 Bloody Valentine.  The title of course is a semi-homage to a 3D Slasher Film Jensen starred in circa 2009. 

Which I will be renting soon I guess.  ,[<- parasocial panda GET BACK IN YOUR ENCLOSURE]

Also Its Really Fun that the trailer for Said Cinema ends with “nothing says date movie like a 3-D ride to hell” [are you also thinking of Cas pulling Dean out of hell, or are you normal?]  ***unironically the teaser for 5x14 is -

EXT. SIDEWALK - IN FRONT OF ALICE'S APARTMENT BUILDING

RUSSEL 

First date.

They then eat each other.  Literally they eat each others flesh.  They also do it while dirty talking about it.  SPN IS A SHOW 

ALICE Ugh! I've been so alone. So empty...

RUSSEL I know. Me too.

ALICE I want you, Russel---All of you... inside me...

[they both take bites out of each other, Alice chewing on a piece of Russel's flesh]

****Remember this detail, as it is important.

ANYWAY, it’s truly Cursed that not only are we doing an homage to this 3-D Jensen Horror Date Flick but also this episode is specifically centered on Valentine’s Day.  The day honoring romance and love Now Coopted by Hallmark, everyone, that is the day spn writers chose to introduce us to 

Sir Horseman of THE Biblical Apocalypse Famine. 

Canonically, we are aware that the show is drawing from the book of Revelations in its depiction of the Four Horsemen.  Here’s what it says about Famine -

"When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.”

-Revelations 6:5

Famine holds scales (used to weigh out grain in times of food scarcity).  Spn’s depiction is represented as hunger, a bottomless pit of need.  It consumes souls (demon and human alike).  

Cas describes Famine a little more poetically:

CASTIEL 

"And then will come Famine riding on a black steed. He will ride into the land of plenty... "

"... and great will be the Horseman's hunger, for he is hunger. "

"His hunger will seep out and poison the air. "

***Consider a prior season in which we are introduced to the Seven Deadly Sins.  Which are the sins associated with hunger?

Gluttony

and Lust.

***this is also important

Back to the episode.  Case cold open, and we find out that Alice was a Nice Girl.  In that she didnt drink, smoke or

have premarital sex.

***So Alice’s hunger for the sin of Lust caused her to succumb to it; and her demise was presented as Gluttony (literally eating her partner’s flesh). HMM

Famine’s presence is affecting the town, and Cas is not immune.

DEAN 

And when did you start eating?

CASTIEL 

Exactly. My hunger-- it's a clue, actually.

***They lay it out a little more in case you missed it ->

SAM 

I thought famine meant starvation, like as in, you know, food.

CASTIEL 

Yes. Absolutely. But not just food. I mean, everyone seems to be starving for something--Sex, attention, drugs, love...

***this is so important.  but of course because its spn and our textual narrators are generally unreliable (even in a Ben Edlund episode, yes I know)

we get a red herring

CASTIEL 

Right. The cherub made them crave love, and then Famine came, and made them rabid for it.

***but that’s not accurate.  they didn’t get married or become obsessed with each other (remember the cursed coin in 4x08 Wishful Thinking and the unconditional love wish? not what happened here). they had premarital sex.  they did the thing Alice considers wrong, and dark, and sinful.  and then they ate each others’ flesh.

DEAN 

Okay, but what about you? I mean, since when do angels secretly hunger for White Castle?

CASTIEL 

It's my vessel-- Jimmy. His, uh, appetite for red meat has been touched by Famine's effect

***mad lad Jimmy Novak’s hunger is for...red meat?  He is starving for red meat?  You are telling me that the Novaks, red blooded conservative religious midwestern Novaks, ate RED MEAT SO SPARINGLY that Jimmy Novak was LITERALLY starving for it?!?!  No way.  Absolutely no way.  This is a man who was such a religious zealot he STUCK HIS HAND IN BOILING WATER and accepted an angel of the lord into his own body but his secret hunger was for fucking ground beef?

give me a damn break.

to me this is an absolute coverup.  Because Cas’s burger consumption is not related one iota to his vessel Jimmy Novak.

it is a representation of Cas falling.  Cas’s cravings for meat represent his growing (and very much prohibited) feelings for...humanity (Dean Winchester), and they are presenting as Gluttony in the form of his downing more and more copious amounts of red meat.  

SERIOUSLY, consider this - at one point the depiction is so desperately carnal that he is eating raw ground beef with his bare hands. It is fucking uncomfortable.  and it is SUPPOSED to be.  Famine stirs up hunger for the prohibited.  For the sinful. That which we are starving for but do not believe we can ever have, so we lust and we lust and we LUST after it, but should we allow ourselves even just a taste of what we have been ravenously craving, we binge it until we ourselves disappear into the oblivion of our own sinful, dark desires.

Since You Want More Examples of why this cant possibly be hunger for Cheeseburgers and Cheeseburgers alone, Consider Famine’s effect on Dean.  Remember his doctor kink?

**when its revealed that Doctor Corman has succumbed to Famine’s poison by drinking himself to death, Dean - very uncharacteristically by the way - reacts by saying out loud

DEAN Thanks. Crap! I really kind of liked this guy.

***please note that Doctor Corman says the following to Dean in the prior scene they have together -

DR. CORMAN [to Dean]

Agent Marley, you just can't stay away.

****was that a flirtation?

***Also, Dean doesn’t want to go out and chase tail for Valentines Day.   

SAM

I mean, what do you always call it-- Uh, unattached drifter Christmas?

DEAN 

Oh, yeah. Well... be that as it may...I don't know. Guess I'm not feeling it this year.

SAM 

So you're not into bars full of lonely women?

DEAN 

Nah, I guess not. [takes a sip of his beer] Ahh. What?

SAM 

That's when a dog doesn't eat-- That's when you know something's really wrong.

***oh look we are relating things to eating again.  sex/lust to gluttony.  hmmm hmmm hmmm

ANYHOW -  *takes deep breath*

 this is also the Episode Where This Scene Lives

****JACKTING JOICES

oh and speaking of jacting joices, this is also the Dean Notices Cupids Crotch Episode.

frAckles, I am once again asking why you only permit celestial beings to hug you from behi-[gunshots]

but Dean isn’t hungry.  Why? Famine has the explanation, and we get it after Dean immediately runs inside after Cas heads in to complete his portion of their plan barely giving him any time to do so because he misses him that much.

FAMINE 

I disagree. [Famine moves closer to Dean and touches him] Yes. I see. That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you? Not with food or drink. Not even with sex.

DEAN 

Oh, you're so full of crap.

FAMINE 

Oh, you can smirk and joke and lie to your brother, lie to yourself, but not to me! 

***not Dean making all of those homophobic/homoerotic jokes every time he’s in danger or feeing uncomfortable; not that, that can’t possibly be what Famine is referencing, right?

I can see inside you, Dean. I can see how broken you are, how defeated. 

***not THIS parallel:

AMARA:

You're a mystery. I can see inside your heart. Feel the love you feel, except… It's cloaked in shame

You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting. Just... keep going through the motions. 

***not the motions of performative heterosexuality!!

***Dean’s not hungry because in his heart he truly believes that he can’t actually have what he hungers for.  That Thing Which This Episode Overtly but Also Very Clearly Made Obvious.  It’s an angel riding shotgun [I did Do That and I am Not Sorry], eating a burger in the front seat of the impala.  But, I’ve deviated from the meat of this essay [gunshots] [this time just for the bad joke].

BONUS

there’s Exists another episode in which a man ravenously consumes red meat; eventually succumbing to eating raw beef with his bare hands in the season prior to this one.  

Yes Supernatural the Show That Brought Us Not One But Two Scenes of Persons Carnally Consuming Red Meat With Their Bare Hands.  

This episode is a MOTW - the man in question is a rougaru - a monster that starts out as human but due to some specific genetic disorder (hmmm hmmm hmm crack in THE chassis hmmm hmmm) soon begins to be extremely hungry - “for everything, but eventually long pig.” AKA human flesh. 

Wanna know the kicker?  

Episode’s called Metamorphosis.

(GIF by jackttwist)

I’ll see myself out.

[DOUBLE BONUS for extra credit:

if you really wanna wild out, go watch the scene of Jack the rougaru looking at himself in the mirror in 4x04 - and then meander on over to 7x01 and check out God!stiel looking in the mirror as the leviathans writhe inside him over there. It’s worth the walk.]

***oh and @lilac-void​ im tagging you in this one because in exchange for your KIND creator content nomination I guess I will respond by cursing you with an Honorary tag in this, a Meat Meta.  you’re welcome slash I'm sorry XO [but seriously thank you again for your kindness and appreciation; it really motivated me to sit down and get moving on making more content <3]

[digitalmeowmix]

Nov.5th / Destiel rant

I actually ship Destiel it’s just not my OTP. I see the subtext and I love the dynamic. I reblogged a bunch of memes and and emotional fanart and stuff on November 5 like a lot of tumblr. I do believe they could have been a great love story on a better written show that was actually about romance and was capable of doing it well. Like a lot of dumb genre tv the show stumbled on to a great story by accident . But I never expected it to be canon in a satisfactory way for 3 reasons

1. SPN was always a horror show that was primarily about platonic family bonds above all else . Romance was never important to the plot or the characters in the long run. It was always a story about Sam and Dean. I understand only caring about a canon for a ship I've done it too, but don't act surprised and betrayed that your specific focus as a fan was not the focus of the actual canon.

2. Almost everyone involved in the show told you Destiel wasn’t going to happen many times in many ways including Jensen. I know Misha was trying to support the fans by encouraging/validating them and their ship and how much it means to them but at certain point expectations have to be adjusted /lowered and he lead a lot of people on .The signs were all there and one yes doesn’t outweigh 12 years of no’s .

3. The show was frequently homophobic and badly written and would not have done a gay romance well . The shit they did they did to LGBT characters like Charlie and Kaia for example was bad enough. This was shown with what they did with the very messy confession. They waited until the last minute to try and make it half way canon to throw shippers a bone and flubbed the landing so horribly the whole internet was making fun of it. Canon screw ups ships all the time and this is why many shipper prefer their ship stays fanon. I have had ships that got fucked over I understand it sucks and even hurts .

If you honestly thought a dumb and frequently bigoted CW horror show that started airing in the Bush era was going to have gay couple that included a main character as an endgame ship that’s your own bad viewing comprehension and lack of critical thinking and naivety that's to blame . There’s a reason the show was called the last great American queerbait.

The level of rage and depression that the finale has caused some of you is very sad and worrying and I’m sorry your hurt and I wish you all fandom joy again someday. But the the harrasment and entitlement and conspiracies have to stop. There is no finale conspiracy or a secret good Destiel ending . It’s just a shitty CW show written by mostly straight white men that tried to have last a ditch fan service/queerbaiting scene and screwed in up.

Jensen has never cared about Destiel and he has said many time the hyper focus on a ship in a show about platonic familial love that he worked hard on for 15 years bothers him. He is not your Heller king . Also leave Jared alone, your parasocial hatred of him and blaming him for everything you hated about the show and finale is pathetic.

I’m begging you to move on and consume and engage with real LGBTQ media and better written media in general and please learn not get fanon tunnel vision and fall for queer-baiting. This will help you to not be so disappointed in the future .

I would love to talk about Destiel more and engage in that side of fandom because I do love the ship! But a lot of you are so entitled and obnoxious I stay away. To those people I say I hope your Spanish dub and being the laughing stock of the internet was worth 12 years of watching the show expecting it to be something it’s not while making fandom miserable for others.

[dirtydancingdean]

something about how dean so completely parallels buffy summers from btvs like they are two iterations of the same character. i mean, buffy the vampire slayer is an undeniably a big influence on supernatural, even if the show itself wouldn’t exactly advertise that fact. you have sam’s sacrifice in swan song paralleling buffy’s sacrifice in the gift, the borrowing of a lot of demons and (god help me) lore, the weird amount of buffy actors in the show (sometimes playing vampires, which is hysterical), the campiness and horror. hell, even cas’s moment of pure happiness seems like a nod to angel’s moment of pure happiness. (dean and cas did it better though). but the biggest similarity is the way dean parallels buffy. he’s obviously not meant to. he’s supposed to be a gun-slinging, wise-cracking ladies man, but that’s not what he becomes. honestly that’s not even what he comes across as in the beginning. buffy and dean are both meant to be heroes, but buffy is the main character of her show, while that’s supposed to be sam in dean’s. and buffy and sam do share their similarities, particularly in their desire for normality which backfires on them because of their equally weighed desire to help people. but dean is so much more like buffy in so many ways?? like buffy, dean always feels everything is his responsibility (like he says in 7.05, “There’s always something eating at me. That’s who I am. something happens, I feel responsible, all right?”). this is largely in part thanks to j*hn winchester, while buffy’s sense of responsibility comes from the fact that a whole group of old white men have told her she’s the one girl in all the world who can fight evil. both of them kind of know on some level that this is kind of fucked up and even try attempting to fight back against their imposed duties occasionally. dean says it in 2.20: “Your happiness for all those people's lives, no contest. Right? But why? Why is it my job to save these people? Why do I have to be some kind of hero?” which is buffy to a t! that's what buffy is all about! the loneliness and unfairness of having this burden on your shoulders! buffy says this in prophecy girl: “I don't care! I don't care. Giles, I'm sixteen years old. I don't wanna die.” but they both always, always go back to do their job. they both always sacrifice their own happiness for others. none of the writers would have intended to have dean make a speech that is entirely parallel to buffy summers’s prophecy girl speech, right down to both sarah michelle gellar and jackles’s tears. because ha ha, buffy is a girl hero, while dean is the embodiment of every male fantasy about what an action hero is.

the thing is, though, when you make dean every male fantasy in the world - attractive, good with women, tough, strong, likes rock music, hates chick flick moments, knows how to shoot a gun, looks good doing it, etc - you make him every male fantasy about women too. which is how we get those slow, full-body shots of dean that you normally only get with women, how we get dean being a caretaker, dean being a pacifier between sam and john, dean watching dirty dancing and liking taylor swift, dean always being the bait, dean’s interactions with villains being framed sexually, dean getting called pretty twice a season. we joke about dean being a hot action girl but he is often objectified in the particular way only women in media are. the way buffy is - in the show i think they actually did a pretty good job of not objectifying buffy. but there are times where they do, and it’s uncomfortable, and it’s subtle, the way it is on spn. and buffy and dean are both used to this kind of treatment; they often weaponize their sexuality, using it when they feel threatened. in the first episode of s2, buffy’s just suffered the enormous trauma of being resurrected after having been bitten by a vampire whose violence has sexual undertones. when she comes back to her friends, they talk about how closed off and mean she’s being, culminating in the scene where she goes to the bronze. if you haven't seen that scene then i dont know how to explain the way she absolutely uses her sexuality against xander and angel, just like dean uses his as a front to protect himself against everyone. when buffy’s traumatized she pushes herself away from those closest to her, represses her emotions, and uses fighting demons as a distraction. sound familiar? buffy and dean both make witty pop culture references that monsters don’t understand and self-deprecating jokes about themselves to deal with when they feel threatened and their low opinions of themselves. buffy has a lot of lines that sound just like dean’s! @lazarusr1sing mentioned buffy saying, “I may be dead, but I’m still pretty, which is more than I can say for you,” as a line that dean literally could have said and it’s true! they’re both a fan of quirky banter during fights but they’re both so messed up when it comes to their opinions of themselves. buffy in 7x07: “I have all this power. I didn't ask for it. I don't deserve it. It's like... I wanted to be punished. I wanted to hurt like I thought I deserved. [...] I feel like I'm worse than anyone. Honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriends. I feel like I'm not worthy of their love. 'Cause even though they love me, it doesn't mean anything cause their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through. [...] Sometimes I feel...this is awful. I feel like I'm better than them. Superior.” yeah, that’s...dean.

and they absolutely dive into self guilt and hatred if something goes wrong, even if it’s not necessarily their fault. faith in 3x15 says to buffy, “In the balance, nobody's gonna cry over some random bystander who got caught in the crossfire,” and buffy says, “I am.” the amount of trauma buffy and dean both go through kind of desensitizes them to this idea - dean especially, i think, though that’s mainly the fault of the sheer amount of writers and episodes supernatural has - but if they get someone killed, they will do absolutely anything to make up for it.

the idea of sympathetic monsters in buffy and supernatural is met with scorn a lot of the time by buffy and dean. for buffy this is a matter of mental self-preservation. her job is to kill demons, and if she lets herself think all demons can be good, then that means she might have been killing sentient beings that could have done good or weren’t doing harm, since she was a teenager. she can’t let herself think that way so she closes herself off to the possibility of demons being good a lot of the time. we talk about how supernatural majorly drops the ball when it comes to empathizing with the monsters (where’s that post, you know, the, “saving people, hunting things, white men with guns decide which is which,” post), but when it comes to dean, part of that is because, like buffy, he doesn’t want to face the idea that he’s been killing things that aren’t evil since he was a child. he’ll make exceptions (cas, crowley, benny, rowena), like buffy makes exceptions (angel, spike, clem, oz, anya), but it’s easier if it’s all black and white. they’re both strangely attracted to monsters too, though, because part of them feels like they are monsters themselves. like @s4castiel said they have romantic or romantically implied relationships with things they’re meant to fight - dean with benny, cas, and crowley + buffy with angel, spike, and faith. and monsters change themselves for buffy and dean’s sakes – cas, benny, crowley, angel, spike, all become better for the sake of buffy and dean! like that leviathan in 7.06 who says dean doesn’t have relationships he has applications for sainthood!

they hate the idea of being seen as just a killer (dean in 3.10, “Daddy knew what you were. Good soldier and nothing else,” and buffy in 5.22, “Guess that means a Slayer really is just a killer after all.”) dean says, “[A killer] is not who I am,” to chuck in 15.19, just like buffy says, “A slayer is not a killer,” through the later seasons. spike’s speech in 5.07 i think, really says it: “Death is on your heels, baby, and sooner or later, it's gonna catch you. And part of you wants it, not only to stop the fear and uncertainty, but because you're just a little bit in love with it. Death is your art. You make it with your hands day after day, that final gasp, that look of peace.” their worst fear is that all they can do is hurt other people. they’ve been brought up to think violence is all they can do. but they both are first and foremost protectors, especially when it comes to sam and dawn, whose roles in both shows respectively is to be a reminder of dean and buffy’s humanity.

dawn, who first shows up in season 5 as buffy’s younger sister, is, represents buffy’s most beloved parts of herself, buffy’s humanity. sam is a lot like her in the respect that their destiny was to end the world; they’re both book-smart too, while buffy and dean act a lot like dumb blondes despite being incredibly intelligent in ways that aren’t clear to everyone. (not to go on a tangent but they’re both really good battle tacticians who make a lot of references to literature and tv shows and can perceive people and monsters’ weaknesses, etc.) dawn is dangerous to the world like sam is dangerous to the world in s2-s5, but buffy will not kill her like dean will not kill sam. you know how in the end 2009 dean realizes just how much 2014 dean has changed when he talks about killing sam as lucifer? sam is dean’s humanity like dawn is buffy’s humanity. they both put their siblings over everything else in the world. they sacrifice things that sam and dawn can’t begin to understand because dean and buffy shield them from it - dean in 2.22: “I had to take care of you. It’s my job,” and buffy in 6.14: “Dawn, the most important job that I have is looking out for you.” in s5 of buffy, if dawn lives, the world ends, and buffy doesn’t care because she can’t kill dawn. in 5.22 she says, “I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices. If everything just gets stripped away. I don't see the point. I just wish that...I just wish my mom was here. [..] If Dawn dies, I’m done with it. I’m quitting,” paralleling dean quitting hunting after sam dies. they’re both insanely protective over dawn and sam - dean in 2.09: “You make a move on [Sam], you'll be dead before you hit the ground,” and buffy in 5.22: “I’ll kill anyone who comes near Dawn.” when sam dies in 2.22, dean doesn’t hesitate to offer up his soul in exchange for sam’s life; when dawn is about to die to save the world in 5.22, buffy doesn’t hesitate to die to save the world in dawn’s place. this all on top of the fact that sam and dawn are the babies, the ones dean and buffy have to take care of, which means that...no one is taking care of dean and buffy. like, dean in 3.10: “Sam, [John] doted on. Sam he loved,” and buffy’s mom in 5.05 hugging dawn and calling her “little punkin belly” and in response to buffy’s question of, “Did you ever have any names for me?” says, “No, I think you were always just Buffy.” when buffy’s mom gets sick in s5, buffy has to shoulder an incredible amount of responsibility - giving her mom her medicine, taking care of her, taking care of dawn, fighting a hellgod - and can’t break down in front of anyone because she has to be strong for dawn and her mom, the way dean has to be strong for sam and john (john in 2.01: “You took care of Sammy, you took care of me. You did that, and you didn't complain, not once.) they’re both so scared of opening up and being a burden - buffy’s nightmare hallucination of her deadbeat dad in 1.10 says the same kind of stuff about her being a burden and unwanted that zachariah’s projection of mary says in 5.16. it really is about the eldest sister complex in the end!!!

but they didn’t ever really mean to have dean be like buffy! buffy was literally meant to subvert traditional male action heroes. buffy summers is the male action hero, but she gets to have feelings and traditionally feminine traits too. she likes cheese and wearing pink and dressing up and having pretty hair, but she thinks about battle tactics and kills a vampire like every episode. dean? dean is meant to be the male action hero without the part about having feelings and traditionally feminine traits...except that backfires spectacularly. i mean, they give dean traits such as liking nightgowns to be like haha, wink-wink, nudge-nudge, isn’t that HILARIOUS. except it doesn’t come off that way, we know it doesn’t come off that way. so dean’s watched dead poets society and rent and he sings along to air supply and is good with kids and nerds out over cowboys, but he drives a classic muscle car and kills death and carries a gun with him everywhere he goes. dean and buffy both become multifaceted, complicated, human heroes – but it was intentional for buffy. it was unintentional for dean, so the narrative actively punishes him for it. i mean ymmv on how you feel about the ending of buffy, but she does get a satisfying happy ending. dean, on the other hand, is silenced and killed off and gets the worst possible ending for his character, all because they couldn’t control him.

[mittensmorgul]

Hi! You reblogged a post today about how it must be like to watch spn for the first time knowing how it all ends. I'm someone who's been aware of the show since 2012, but never had any interest in watching it (mostly bc i was younger and scared of horror).

I do know a lot of the gifs and memes due to fandom cross-contamination/cultural osmosis, however, i couldn't have told you who was who of jensen and jared.

I ended up watching both ep 19 and 20 live, despite never seeing any other eps, after thee fifth of november. After Christmas, i started from the beginning.

So how is it watching all the way through, knowing the ending?

A lot of internal screaming. There's so many little moments that hit super hard, combined with the knowledge that it was likely accidental/unintentional at the time (early seasons especially). It's amazing to see moments play out like wait they actually did that on tv i thought the fans made this up--examples: handprint, 'i did it, all of it, for you' being that early in the show, the amount of bi!dean even pre-cas.

I've developed quite the case of brainrot in a short amount of time. Every time i think they wont go somewhere, they do: the entirety of Free to be You and Me is insane to watch. I can't imagine how it must have felt to see it air. So many foundational destiel moments occur within kripke era and that really surprised me. It literally starts from the moment they meet.

If you're interested in some specific reactions to moments/scenes/arcs/episodes, ive got 3 episodes left of season 7, so anything prior to that is fair game. I'm watching with a friend in a discord server, and we take detailed notes and screenshots while watching, so if you're curious what a new fan thinks of something, feel free to ask!

OH gosh, thank you for letting me know! I guess you’re really enjoying it, then, since you’re still watching, even knowing the ending?

I feel so entirely unable to explain what it was like watching live, seeing it all exactly as you are, but being told every week that we were wrong, that we were making it up, that we didn’t understand that they didn’t mean it *that way* or that we were seeing something that wasn’t actually there. We spent more than a decade on the defensive, justifying in meta what we were seeing, even while we fully believed the show would never be able to give us actual concrete textual confirmation that we were seeing the story for what it was.

And then they did.

For me, 15.18 doesn’t “recontextualize” anything. It doesn’t change how I personally see anything that came before it. I *always* saw it that way. For me it was vindication that I had been right all along, and lifted the anxiety and exhaustion off my need to “justify” the story I’d perceived happening all along. It was more a relief than anything.

I don’t know if I’m jealous of your experience or grateful for the experience I had with it over the years... probably both. I just imagine that watching knowing from the start that Dean and Cas are canonically a love story makes it far less stressful :’D

I’m super interested in your notes, too, and am fascinated how well they line up with what the fandom has been writing about Dean and Cas all these years. Any time you’re willing to share, I’m thrilled to chat with you. Glad you’re enjoying the ride!

[tanoraqui]

okay I have to do this today because even I wouldn’t do it after the godforsaken finale airs, and it’s basically my specialty and I did spend like an hour thinking about it last night while washing dishes. Definitely partly inspired by @words-writ-in-starlight​‘s insightful post on everything Supernatural did wrong, and apologies in advance to all the characters for dragging them into anything related to Christian mythology:

Wei Wuxian’s parents die in a house fire when he’s 6(? I refuse to look anything up) months old

Jiangs are a hunter family I guess? That whole disaster of a family dynamic, except WWX dips out at some point to be idk an environmental activist bc at the time, that seems like the larger threat to the whole world. “Mom and Dad went on a hunting trip and they haven’t come back”, “bitch” “jerk”, 2 brothers in a beat-up old car, you know the drill

Jins are also an old hunting family, but more Men of Letters energy - they have a fancy bunker and do research and avoid getting their actual hands dirty. Jiang Yanli ducked out of the active hunting life a few years ago to be happily married to her peacock and settled down with a baby and she’s fine. We’re not going to bother Yanli. She’s safe and happy and doesn’t need to involved in any of this

so, WWX is the demon blood child developing exciting new abilities like telekinesis, mind control, exorcising demons by sheer force of will...etc, and Jiang Cheng is the Righteous Man. Lucifer, Michael, etc.

s1-3 probably proceeds more or less as spn canon...which I more or less remember...by the time they find their parents at the end of s1, Jiang Fengmian is...ugh, we probably shouldn’t kill him offscreen, I mean, we should probably meet him before he dies. I guess. Madam Yu lasts longer because I’m way more interested in her. But we do know that both Jiang parents are totally inclined to fling the boys into a metaphorical or literal escape boat and go hold the line for as long as possible, so...that’s spn energy...

Xue Yang is the one who’s like “fuck yeah, demon powers” and opens the gates of Hell, because I want him to have nice* things

*nice for Xue Yang

from characterization rather than memory, I’m 90% sure that Dean tried to hide his crossroads deal from Sam, but Jiang Cheng does it...better. I think it does come out, though. Right before the hellhounds do.

here’s where it starts to go farther off from spn canon. Jiang Cheng crawls his way out of the grave, gets stalked by a menacing presence that explodes windows for an episode, incidentally can’t find WWX...*Lan Wangji voice* “I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from Perdition” (a baller line then and a baller line now)...and then the next episode starts with them all awkwardly standing around, and JC is like, “ok well let’s go find my brother then”, and you think there’s going to be an mdzs-riffing JC+LWJ Roadtrip To Find WWX...and they’re immediately attacked by like a dozen demons

in fact, the first time we see WWX in s4 is here, wherein he goes toe to toe with an angel and...holds his own. that’s new and terrifying! also is leading a squad of demons??

because here’s the thing: for the last 3(?) months, there’s been war in hell

because unlike Some People Mooses, upon finding out that his brother’s soul was legally nearly-owned by a crossroads demon, heir-apparent-to-Satan!WWX went, “actually fuck that” and kicked open the door of Hell (metaphorically, not loosing any demons this time) and was like, “who do I have to beat the shit out of to get a specific crossroads contract around here”

this did not work, obv. He didn’t know until it was too late, Lilith had already snapped up the contract, etc. etc.

obviously he also tried to offer himself instead, and got rejected for some reason

Since Jiang Cheng died, however, there’s been a war for control of Hell. Leading one side, Lilith, the Original Babe, who wants to break all 666(?) seals keeping Lucifer bound and in the meantime, break the Righteous Man so Heaven won’t even have Michael’s destined host ready for the Final Battle. Leading the other side, Wei Wuxian, infamous upstart, who wants to rescue the Righteous Man and restore him to life, tear Lilith’s guts out through her nose, and also stop her from doing the Lucifer thing because Wen Qing explained that yes, that’s a Thing, and it’s Bad.

Wen Qing! I’ve decided to combine Bela and Ruby’s roles and let WQ be both the cool badass example of how demon deals can go Bad and the demon deliberately leading our heroes astray for most of s3-4. Wen Qing is a very new demon; she used to be some sort of herbalist/witch but then she sold her soul in a crossroads deal to cure her brother of some lingering illness. 10 years of happiness and then boom, hellhounds. WQ is so obviously competent, though, that they (Lilith, I guess?) immediately offers her a job, with the promise threat that gee, that’s a nice brother you’ve got there, even with his Designated Chronic Health Condition getting all relapse-y. It’d be such a shame if something were to...happen to him...

we find this out at some point in last s3 I guess? some Monster of the Week case involves WN as a witness or something, or possible next victim, and WQ shows up to be A Normal Amount Of Invested In This, while desperately trying to avoid actually interacting with her brother (who thinks she’s dead). YES, the truth comes out; YES there’s a tearful reunion

now in s4, Wen Ning is fine actually, health-wise, bc he maybe made a crossroads deal with Wei Wuxian personally, and Wen Qing may or may not have admitted that she’s supposed to be working for Lilith to get WWX ready to host Lucifer? Or potentially that comes out later, idk. Either way, she’s 100% his top lieutenant in this exciting Hell War they’re waging

[insert whatever the hell (ha) happened plot-wise in s4 of supernatural]

we obviously mix up the relationships, too, bc it’s like, *LWJ internal monologue* I’m too young to remember my brother Lucifer as he was before he Fell, but surely Wei Wuxian is his Heir and Destined Vessel in truth, for he is Charismatic and Charming and Makes Me Feel Things, with his Clearly Feigned Righteous Drive and Compassion for All God’s Creatures and - why does heat keep pooling in the lower abdomen of my vessel when I look at his lips, which I am definitely doing a Normal and Not-Weird Amount - I’m just keeping an eye out for the famed Silver Tongue, and not in any way wondering how it would feel in my own mouth -

it’s actually DEFINITELY plausible for Lucifer to still be released even if our designated Heir Apparent is using his demon powers to his full potential and no one’s lying to each other about their motives. You just need to let Lilith be more scary too, and especially bc by “no one” I mostly mean Wen Qing; the angels are still totally hiding the fact that they, too, want to jumpstart the shit out of this apocalypse.  LWJ decides at the last minute that that’s a bad idea actually, gets himself discorporated to send JC to intercept WWX because he accidentally releases Lucifer, etc. etc. Oh yeah, the boys were def fighting before this, bc JC has actually fairly reasonable concerns about the sort of things WWX is getting up to in his quest to become King of Hell...

SO

...I neither know nor care what happens in s5

it does end with both Lucifer and Michael locked in the cage probably, bc I rather liked that solution. Fuck both of ‘em, basically.

I was toying with the idea that WWX also found Madam Yu in whatever hellish torment she was suffering after making a deal so her idiot son(s) would survive, and she was leading forces for him in the war against Lilith as well. If she came back to life somehow, body and all, it’d probably be compelling if she offered her own body to Michael - bc it’s her lineage! - and we’re all led to believe that she’s, uh, being a bitch and actually wants to risk destroying the world in order to destroy all demons...but then she seizes back control and flings herself/Michael and Lucifer into the Pit, because she’s just That Hardcore?

which means we’d actually have had her around and having characterization for most of s4-5, too, which would be fun

More importantly, it ends with newly crowned King of Hell Wei Wuxian appointing Wen Qing as Queen-Regent and ditching to go on an indefinite honeymoon with his new angel boyfriend (they’re going to fuck for like three weeks straight, then roll up their sleeves and go conquer Heaven in the name of free will), and Jiang Cheng gets to live out his hitherto-unknown-to-himself life’s ambition to be the sugar baby of the Queen of Hell. It’s very Hades/Persephone, except he goes back down to the underworld at least once a month. He gets his own demon squad whom he trains up in all the hunting techniques and it’s gr9. Wen Qing is reforming the crossroads deal process to make it more fair to the humans.

the end

Addenda:

it should go without saying but Jiang Yanli is definitely a recurring character, like, at least once a season there’s a filler episode where they go to Jiang Yanli’s for dinner and have to get along as a family, and also do the much easier job of defeating some sort of terrible demon that gets loose in the bunker and turns the evening into a horror movie. She’s their main research/emotional check-in person, a la Bobby, more often appearing in later seasons when there’s, uhhh, more to emotionally check in about.

Jin Zixuan is actually a perfectly competent hunter; he’s just a priss and we don’t Like him

we like Mianmian, though. Oh, I guess the official Hunter’s Guild or w/e tries to declare WWX a public enemy on account of the whole “King of Hell” thing and she’s like “actually what if you’re morons and assholes?” and joins hte team in s4 or 5? Yeah.

idk how the 3zun disaster happens in this ‘verse but I do encourage it to be happening in slow motion as a recurring subplot for several seasons. NMJ is a hunter, LXC is obv an angel, and JGY is...I wanna say one of the more human monsters, like a vampire? Or, you know, something that could be born from JGS sleeping with someone/something he shouldn’t have