#and it's like okay mr. doylist

[mayhaps-a-blog]

I often get tired of the "___ would NEVER" discourse because I think the more interesting question is what would happen to change that. Like, obviously Ezra in this example would never work with Thrawn as seen in the finale of Rebels, but what might happen afterwards that would change his mind? What would have to be offered, or threatened, to make him feel that he could/should/must work with the man who was once his most hated enemy? Does he just need to ~understand~ Thrawn? Does Thrawn need to threaten something he cares about (which did get him to cooperate with Thrawn in the Rebels finale; got him to surrender and be brought up to the ship, at least, which is a type of cooperation)? Does he need to be offered something that would make it worth it - the chance to save people, the chance to reform Thrawn, the chance to help someone he cares about?

"___ would NEVER" is a conversation killer. There's nowhere to go from there, nothing to talk about. "What if-" "___ WOULDN'T!" "Okay, but-" "___WOULDN'T!" "But if x happened-" "___ WOULDN'T!" is as far as you can get, and that's exhausting. "But how COULD it happen" is so much more fun to talk about.

Looking at Thrawn and Ezra, there are similarities that could help it happen - both are dedicated to doing the "right" thing, regardless of their personal feelings. Ezra went from a street kid to a Jedi who would lay down his life for a stranger because it's the right thing to do, and Thrawn had routinely bombed his career and every bridge he has for what he believes to be the "greater good". So yes, there is a framework for them to work together - Ezra's "right thing" just needs to line up with Thrawn's "greater good", however that might happen. And isn't that little "how" fun to consider?

always funny when people on here have the "ezra would NEVER cooperate with thrawn!!!" discourse because every - and i mean every - argument misses the point that one of the most common narrative tropes in star wars stories is "unlikely allies". a lot of the ~meat~ of star wars is people from opposing sides finding ways to recruit each other for their respective causes. saying that it "wouldn't make sense" is ignoring like, a good chunk of the most interesting and intriguing stories told in this franchise.

[larsisfrommars]

The Night of The Murderous Spring Is So JUICY!

I think I need to talk about how insanely gay this episode of Wild Wild West is or I might EXPLODE. I know a lot of us who already watch the show knew this episode was ridiculous in the gay subtext department but I feel compelled to go in-depth about putting it into words.

Let’s not even dig into the fact that before drugging Jim Dr. Loveless proudly proclaims that he will make James West “kill the thing he loves” and was referring to Artemus when he said that! That’s already wild enough as it is.

For me like, through a shipping/gay subtext lense, I could already tell Artie was into Jim. There is a mountain of evidence to interpret their relationship that way at least on Gordon’s end. For West it was a little more sparse until and especially THIS episode. Which confirmed for me as relatively new to this show and fandom “ohhhh!! He really DOES reciprocate whatever ambiguously gay mess is happening here!”

The version of Artemus that Jim subconsciously conjures up for himself is so interesting. And of course, it appears to him when he’s in desperate need of comfort, of a rock to cling to, but can find none. So his hallucinating brain projects what he NEEDS most, not some lovely young lady (familiar or otherwise) to tell him everything is alright, but Artemus to take care of him. He WANTS to be taken care of and comforted by Artemus and no one else. I’m not crying YOU are crying!

His version of Artemus is pretty close to the real deal but there’s something… softer about this projected version. He’s not completely different, I wouldn’t even say out-of-character. But he is gentler, more patient and forgiving, and very much there to play guardian angel for Jim. All of his positive traits are exaggerated in Jim’s eyes, like hes always seeing the guy through rose colored glasses.

I say this because part of why I got a bit suspicious of this version of Artie was him being way too calm and forgiving when Jim starts being aggressive towards him due to the drug. Yeah Artie loves Jim but like, he’s got his own sense of self-preservation, intelligence, and a bit of a temper. I was expecting a joke or some sternness or something, hell maybe taking Jim’s gun from him. But of course he doesn’t and he can’t, because he’s not real and he’s there to comfort. Jim can’t be thrown off the course that’ll lead him to killing Artie by his hallucination’s own intervention. He’s himself but oh so slightly off.

Another thing was something that “Artie” said that didn’t actually make a lot of sense compared to the rest of established canon when Jim first starts getting temperamental. “Hey it’s me remember? Artemus Gordon? Mrs. Gordon’s son.” Now I know there’s probably some throwaway Doylist explanation for this, but the Watsonian in me prevails.

Artie never brings up either of his parents before this or ever again to my knowledge. Jim only mentions family once in a previous Dr. Loveless episode. It’s the kind of thing you’d say to someone where you’d known each other your whole lives, implying Jim would somehow know his mother. Now unless I’m mistaken they met each other in the military as adults. Which means Jim’s subconscious emotions have made him feel as though Artie’s known him his whole life. Which is some soulmate sounding mess if I ever heard it.

Then there is the crescendo of this madness where Jim shoots the illusionary Artemus in cold blood. Which is easily some of the most heartbreaking acting in the series. I have watched it a normal amount of times (lying)!! Dying “Artie” looks confused and betrayed but he STILL reaches out to Jim like he like wants Jim to know that it’s okay?! OUCH. Then of course there’s the little “why?” before he dies that pushes Jim over the edge.

Jim completely flies off the handle after Artemus’s apparent death. Careening through the street, threatening the hotel staff, trying to get himself arrested for murdering Artie. I don’t know whether it was a side effect of how much hallucinogen he ingested or what. He straight up faints like some tragic Victorian protagonist after returning to his room, overwhelmed by the evil that he has seemingly done.

When he comes back around he is not at all acting like the Jim we know and love. It’s almost like he wants Loveless to kill him with the way he goads the guy. He’s despondent and jaded and being reckless with his own life. He only snaps back to normal when he discovers Artie is in fact alive and well. Which is such a beautifully loaded reunion. He responds to Jim’s unusual tenderness with a sassy joke (which is of course how we know this one is real). It feels very akin to the Kirk and Spock reunion at the end of Amok Time.

I also think it’s worth noting that I think the first time I ever heard James West utter the words “Artie! Help me!” when he’s trying to prevent the ducks carrying the murder-LSD from being released (this episode is NUTS). Which you know in light of the events of this episode is a big step in Jim being a bit more vulnerable as a character. So there is THAT too.

Hey, and maybe it’s just me, but whether it was deliberate or not, something changed about the whole tone of the show after this particular episode. It felt like the showrunners were slowly having it dawn on them the show is at its strongest when it plays off of the bond shared by these two characters. This episode along a few other gems from season one seem to have clinched it. I noticed in season two so far they’re using Artie and Jim’s relationship as a support beam where it was more of a flexible suggestion before. Which has ✨implications✨ whether you interpret the relationship as gay or not. The events of this episode cracked Jim West’s very hard shell, and made these two characters closer than before.

[thebreakfastgenie]

iirc glee had a billy joel episode, or at least did several covers of his songs. do you have an opinion on that?

I've seen the episode, which is called Movin' Out, at least four times. I've also seen all the covers in other episodes. This took forever to answer because I decided to go back and watch some of these to refresh to my memory.

I appreciate that they did it. It was nice to see him get the recognition. Mr. Schue using him for the lesson was a fun idea, I wish the writers knew a bit more about him though because there were missed opportunities! I could have done it better. My overall opinion is that's underwhelming. I want it to be better than it is.

The covers themselves are......... mostly not good. The first time they did Piano Man, when Mr. Schue sang it with Neil Patrick Harris, it was diegetic, the two of them singing it together in a bar, so they were able to do the cut by just having them not finish the song, which was really good. I thought that one worked pretty well!

Puck's Only the Good Die Young is... fine. It's not great but it's fine. It's fit in the episode is a little tenuous but whatever. I enjoy the line about only doing songs by Jewish artists that precedes the cover. There are worse covers in that episode.

The Warblers doing Uptown Girl was good! It would have been even better if Glee could resist the urge to Glee it up so much and it sounded more like a boys' a cappella group would in real life but it was really close to that and it was fun.

New York State of Mind is a mixed bag. They did really well in some parts and not as well in others. Marley held her own but Rachel definitely did better. I wonder if Rachel's at least was an homage to Barbra Streissand's cover, but it's not too on-the-nose obvious if it is. Rachel singing New York State of Mind as a new student at NYADA is hilarious on a Watsonian level, like it would be such a cliche, but I think on a Doylist level it's an excellent choice. You know, it's a jukebox musical, she's excited to be in New York where she's been desperately working to get for the whole show up to this point. It's a good choice. I'm not convinced Lea Michelle and Melissa Benoist couldn't have hit some of the notes that get sidestepped, I think it was just the arrangement, but what do I know.

The Longest Time was okay. I think it would have been better if, again, it didn't Glee it up so much, but it's a much bigger problem here than with Uptown Girl. It's an "unplugged" song during a power outage and I wish they let it sound more like that! Let it be more acoustic and rougher sounding! It's supposed to be like that anyway. Good use of that song but just a failure to execute. I also can't stand the Glee style of dancing, especially by that point in the show, and I feel like it doesn't fit which makes me like it even less, but I'm trying to judge this more on the use of the songs and not inherent Glee problems.

My biggest complaint about the covers in Movin' Out is the cuts are just so bad. I know they had to cut them for time but they could have done it better! It's really jarring! The actual singing is also pretty meh. I like some more than others but I don't love any of them.

I have a certain fondness for Ryder's An Innocent Man. It's musically just okay but I enjoy how it's used. I don't think he really gets those notes though. 75-year-old Billy Joel is like "pray for me to hit the high note" and then kills it every time. That kid could do better.

I hate the use of Honesty, it's so weird, and I also don't like the cover. Sorry Artie.

I don't love the cover of Just the Way You Are but also it's Just the Way You Are. What can I say. Not the worst use of it in the plot though.

I hate the cover of Movin' Out. I don't really enjoy the montage thing either but it's fine I guess. It's weird because I would think Darren Criss would be able to do Billy Joel but I don't like any of his parts in this episode.

Jake singing My Life while also asking Marley for a second chance is kind of funny. I also remember that one being meh to fine.

It's hilarious that Blaine says "sing along if you know it" about Piano Man to a crowd in a piano restaurant in New York City. That place probably needs a "no Piano Man" sign like the sign in the guitar store in Wayne's World. Also as a side note if they could have gotten a Billy Joel cameo that would be the scene to do it; he should have been like "no not this song again" and stormed out. OR they could have had him correct Blaine because the sheet music is wrong (in real life that was with Just the Way You Are but creative license is allowed).

Ending on You May Be Right was a solid choice but I hate their version of it. It's terrible.

The choice of songs is... fine? I could probably make a better track list for a Billy Joel episode if you gave me some time, but they picked a decent mix of hits I guess, especially considering which ones they'd already used (of course they repeated Piano Man. of course.) I would like to see Blaine try Summer, Highland Falls, I think. Ultimately I think the biggest problem with Movin' Out is that Glee had declined so much by season 5. A Billy Joel episode in season 2 or 3 would probably have been better. There was just more care put into the music back then.

By the way, Billy Joel gave permission for Glee to use his songs but said he'd never seen the show because he only watches the History Channel.

[mincedpeaches]

final batch of earthspark s1 episodes post

One thing that I kind of sort of praised in my first earthspark post, the slow trickle of information the show was giving us, is something that I look upon much less favorably now that S1 one has ended. Not because a slow trickle of information itself is bad, but because in this batch of episodes more than any other it was clear that the information hasn't been always given in a way that makes sense from a story prospective. Rather it's been given in a way that very clearly telegraphs "okay the writers want to introduce this now, so here it is". Most egregiously with the backstory on the kids sleeves. Why only NOW, twenty episodes in, was the crew heading down to Teletraan I to google the info about the Prime that gave them the sleeves? Well, because the sleeves and the emberstone were about to be plot relevant.

This is also something I remembering thinking with the energon bear in the last batch of episodes too, in that NO ONE really questions or follows up on why the the fuck the bear was like that. Which doesn't really make sense, except from the Doylist perspective that it looks to be like A Plot For A Later Episode, when the energon waste dumping might become relevant.

And these episodes only bring up even MORE questions that should have been asked in-story but aren't, like what the fuck was up with the tunnels and the doors and the dweller inside them.

AND my point STILL stands about wanting more of the OG bots. It's even worse when there's five kids instead of two. Once again I'm sorry kiddos.

Like the best "finale" per say in terms of action was undoubtedly the first batch of episodes, where big bots were fighting big bots. I was really hoping the actual finale would bring more of that when the second batch "finale" felt pretty lackluster in comparison. But then this finale had the OG bots out of commission for the ENTIRE thing. There were some visually cool moments (Mandroid's terrifying new look, Croft getting fucking vaporized) and fun moments (Schloder becoming part of the team) but. Idk. I think about the first batch of episodes and how much fun I had watching them and the potential I thought they held, and the show hasn't quite hit anything higher than that for me. Yet. Curious to what a season two could be about with the main antagonist gone and most of the intro-to-their-alt-modes and learning-about-themselves-as-terrans stuff is out of the way. I thought maybe with the kill and heal waves going over the entire earth they might cut to some as yet unseen bots as a little teaser of things that might come but nope. (I still might bet on that tying into a plot of a potential season two though.)

All that being said I love what Hashtag has going on. Both overall and in-particular her thing with Starscream this batch, which was giving Armada Starscream & Alexis vibes for sure. I actually mentioned in my earthspark post that I started for the second batch of episodes (that I never managed to finish and post): Hashtag is my fav of the new kids. She's so #cringebutfree, pun not intended, and I love that for her. Also she a has rad alt-mode and color scheme and her satellite turns into a little ponytail. How cute is that. Also digged how they had Twitch gearing up for an arc about being the team leader in the previous batch of episodes and then there were moments where she was making calls when it was just down to her and Nightshade/Bumblebee etc in this batch. Would love to see that expended upon even more in potential future eps. I love her. Can I get a yeah women?

Also the way that Megatron (along with the majority of the OG bots) had so few lines this batch BUT almost every single line Megatron DID have managed to showcase his Scottish twang? They did that for ME. Thank you Mr McCann.

tl;dr I wish we got more (back)story based on the things already teased/things already shown, and in a way that made more narrative sense, and I really REALLY wish there were more OG bots. And at this point it kind of hurt my enjoyment of the show a tiny bit. It was still fine and I understand that as a show for kids it's very good and also, as always, not really for me but for children. And I'm still hoping there is more potential than what season one has given, which I don't think is an unreasonable thing to hope for. Like remember how rough and kind lame season one of Cyberverse was? Yeah. There's still a ton of potential here. Here's to hoping. I will still undoubtedly be tuning into season two if when it gets made.

P.S. rescue bots reference. :)

[ploncc]

Outside of pure preference for one character over the other, I think a lot of why people were on Team Cap or Team Ironman had less to do with which side people fell on in terms of their personal squabbles (which, for the record, had no right answer. people are messy like that. watch merry christmas mr lawrence, have some feelings, and do therapy about it), and a lot more to do with whether people were engaging from a doylist or watsonian viewpoint.

From a doylist standpoint, having random ass people with the powers to kill pretty much anyone with very few means to stop them are...uh...you know, kind of a scary thought. That would, maybe, be less scary if the government had some level of control over them. Or, even better, if they agreed to follow the rulings of some body of officials!

From a watsonian view, the governing bodies have been incredibly corrupt at almost every turn within the movies. I mean shit, Hydra just got revealed like two years earlier, and you really want people to put their full undivided trust in government after that???

However.

Why.

the FUCK.

Is this the conversation being had?

After Avengers (2012), the fandom decided that hey, you know what? We love the action.

AND, you know what we also love?? All the emotional shit. All the context. All the little nerdy philosophical moving bits.

Remember the whole avengers tower stuff? All the little shorts people had ideas for that got incredibly popular and were an exploration of what happens after the action was over? The commitment to acknowledge what happens after the dust had settled, not because it was potentially marketable, but because it made the stories more satisfying? Because it made sense with the characters?

And then after Winter Soldier? Pretty much all people were talking about was 1). Cleaning up after Hydra and 2). saving Bucky Barnes. So, you know, more philosophy, more emotional shit, more context, more small moving bits.

And then, instead, we got Civil War, which was a great movie to watch and was certainly engaging given that Team Ironman or Team Cap are phrases that can STILL set people off (which may also be linked to people's residual feelings about the U.S. 2016 elections which were similarly polarizing and definitely wasn't used as a marketing ploy at all), but somehow managed to sidestep responsibility for almost every single pre-existing storyline. It chose, to no one's surprise, to try and make as much money as possible, catering to the widest, most general audience possible instead of to what made sense. And because it's engaging, because its a movie, which is relatively short and intense when compared to say, a book, it was (and still is) able to focus your attention onto the problems in the movie until you forgot the bigger picture even exists.

And here's the thing, okay?

That was the company's decision. If you make something using the same principles, then that's your own prerogative. We can't control what other artists do with their own damn works.

We can't control what other artists do with their own damn works and that's fine. Good, actually. Healthy.

But we sure as hell can control where we take the conversation afterwards. And personally? I'm a lot more interested in talking about the fact that Marvel took Stark, whose movies deal a lot with personal responsibility when you've been put in power in a system that unfairly privileged you to the direct detriment and harm of others among other things, and Rogers, whose movies frankly deal with an absurd amount of philosophical bullshit ranging from public vs. private self to safety vs. freedom, and decided to simplify them into angry, bitter people to be more marketable during a period of high political unrest and make more money.

[ozymandiasdirge]

Can you elaborate on the closeted jimmy narrative, I trust your huge brain?

i am going to disclaim that this is 100% fully admit this is my making shit up because i think it would have been interesting, but also this episode was written by jeremy carver and i know better so anyways.

okay so i think in the episode the rapture that it always shocks me how quickly jimmy is just....willing to let an angel run off with his body when he has a wife and child and i know part of that is because this show has terrible pacing from a doylist perspective. like jimmy is supposed to be happy with his life and that’s why he wants to get back to him so badly after cas leaves but? mr. novak if you were so happy why did you leave within a day of this happening.

Like obviously he loves claire and he seems like a really good dad but. man i dont know if it’s just because misha straight up REFUSED to have romantic chemistry with women in the twelve years he was on this show but...his marriage with amelia is not it. at no point do i think they like each other or feel love from them at all. even his scene where he lets cas possess him again. the whole focus is on him and claire he doesnt even look at amelia. almost all the emotional scenes in the episode and even later are about him and claire not him and his wife.

there’s a flashback in the rapture that always strikes me. the famous blueberry shot in the coffee jimmy is wildin’ sticking his hand in the water which is iconic. but the thing that hits me is after. amelia sees him do this, sees this obviously supernatural thing happen and immediately implies to jimmy that he needs to be institutionalized. like girl just staight up saw a miracle happen but it is not normal. which in the illinois suburbs with youth group and book club. can you imagine how it would look on amelia if her husband is a freak. oh no honey not her straight ass. THAT IS NOT A HAPPY MARRIAGE. and then when he’s points out that she just saw what happened she says he’s not going to be allowed to see claire if he doesn’t get medicated which. that is so evangelical wife catching her husband looking at men and threatening to take away the children. yes im reading too much into it no i dont care.

so i think jimmy’s disillusionment with cas is deeper maybe if. like his whole life something felt fundamentally different and then here is miserable in pontaic illinois with a daughter that he loves but a life he’s miserable with. if one day an angel comes along and tells him that of course he’s worthy of god, all you have to do is come with me, that validation would make sense why he’s willing to leave. but being a servant of god, spn’s god specifically, is terrible and brutal and unforgiving. not a benediction or a balm so that and the fact that cas is putting his body through hell because he has bad taste in men is why jimmy is like, pissed.

like that scene at the dinner table where claire asks him to say grace that inspired this post??? and his respone??? like jeremy what am i supposed to think

and when cas does possess him it’s....so gentle compared to what we normally see. the way it’s shot and framed. and we know that cas, as someone who’s always felt broken, like feels an affinity for other broken people that’s canon. cas has a kindness in response to other’s suffering back to the final plague of egypt. and also cas knows what human homophobia is and how damaging it is enough to immediately start killing homophobes when he becomes god. like i know it’s because he’s gay and im sure a lot of it comes from dean’s specific issues but i think he observed it up close at some point and i imagine having to share a body with someone with issues about it probably did that.

[autisticandroids]

post about lily sunder has some regrets and angel gender

okay so lily sunder has some regrets is the best episode of late season spn and maybe the best episode of spn right? right? i’m glad we’re all agreed. anyway lets talk about how batshit the gender implications of this episode are. i’m going to be slipping between watsonian and doylist interpretations like soap through your fingers so keep up. i don’t have a point here i’m just obsessed.

anyway the thing is that benjamin is the first angel we ever meet to be gendered against his vessel. benjamin is referred to by male pronouns even though he’s possessing a woman. they even talk about it. “so benjamin is a woman?” “no, benjamin is an angel, his vessel is a woman.” but it’s not like all angels are referred to with male pronouns. in general, angels are referred to either by the pronouns of their current vessel, or the pronouns of the first vessel we met them in (i’m preeeetty sure raphael stayed “he” after switching to a female vessel, and hannah stayed “she” after switching to a male vessel). now obviously the reason for lily sunder doing this is twofold, one is that our friend mr yockey wants us to think about angel gender, and two that mr yockey wants to make it clear that the relationship between benjamin and his vessel has some kind of sexual connotation because, a, he wants us to think about angels and humans fucking because that IS the theme here, and b, he wants us to think “oh, so benjamin and his vessel are fucking!” and then hear SAM say “so she was his..... friend” calling attention to the naming of relationships, and how inadequate a terms “friend” seems in light of what cas has said about benjamin and his vessel, and causing us to pay attention to the name we give to whatever dean and cas are to each other. what i’m saying is that steve yockey said “wanna be boy best friends?”

and then there’s ishim’s line “i liked your old vessel better” which doesn’t scan as weird until a few minutes later when we find out that cas’ old vessel was a woman! and then a few minutes after that when we find out that ishim is a creep. like upon rewatch that line reads like sexual harassment. and yet that’s insaaaaane because angels are genderless!! what the hell difference does it make!! except it does. also side note i don’t think we ever heard hot girl castiel referred to in the third person but i would have liked to hear some she/her pronouns about cas pls and thank you. that would have fucked. that is the only way in which mr yockey has ever let me down.

and then there’s like. this episode also does the thing that annoys me where angels receive gendered names that line up with their gendering that spn does? like every day i wake up and am annoyed that hannah, rachel, naomi, hester were named those things while male-vesseled angels get to have like, weird and kind of sexless angel-y sounding names. except that mr yockey is doing it intentionally, like, first of all this is the first time that a male angel has gotten that treatment (benjamin) and second of all he does it with mirabel, which is a pretty feminine name, right? except then we meet a male-vesseled angel, akobel, like, that’s clearly on the same naming convention. so it’s kind of deconstructing that as well.

there wasn’t a point to this rant it’s just something i think about constantly. i’m not sure if i even like all the things mr yockey added to the canonical concept of angel gender they’re just like, fascinating to me.

[daughterofhecata]

Okay, watsonian explanations for "why does Cotta hate his first name" (as opposed to the doylist, which is that Sonnleitner, bless him, didn’t want to shoehorn in some random ass name for an established character a hundred episodes down the line):

Mr and Mrs Cotta gave their son some really, really weird name (think "Eustace Clarence" from Narnia), but their daughter the pretty normal name "Caroline". (boring and uninspired)

Mr and Mrs Cotta gave both their children rather normal names, and Cotta just hates his for some reason or other - a relative he hated or a childhood bully with the same name, for example. (better, but still bland)

Cotta is a trans guy and just never got around to changing his first name/couldn't come up with a fitting name and just decided to go by his last name instead. (i do like this one)

Mr and Mrs Cotta gave both their children really terrible names, and Caroline is the one who's trans and changed her name to something a lot more tame and conventional.

[wolves-in-the-world]

unfortunately reminded myself of one of my worst Eliot readings / headcanons, which I have refrained from sharing previously because it... isn't pleasant.

(emetophobes, consider this your warning.)

so. right. whenever I start thinking along the lines of Eliot "let's make sure these civilians are safe" Spencer etc I inevitably, uncomfortably end up reminded of the Morning After Job in an attempt to make that fit - specifically the witness they had to take back to jail, lost & recaptured, and ended up leaving in the trunk of McSweeten's car. because neither Eliot nor Hardison (I'll be focusing on Eliot here, though Hardison being part of it makes the second explanation below more likely) were very sympathetic to this poor schmuck who testified against crooked cops and was basically terrified for his life the entire episode.

Possible Explanation 1: the Eliot in my head is softer and more careful than canon Eliot. probably! I'm okay with that.

Explanation 2, Doylistic: it's a comedy, and here the comedy undercuts the more serious Eliot Is Surprisingly Ethical For A Punchy Guy theme (and the broader The Team Are Surprisingly Ethical For Bad Guys theme).

(...yeah, this might be less about Eliot and more about a slight deviation from the usual tone of the show, tbh - they don't normally show innocent-in-the-eyes-of-the-story characters suffering with that little sympathy. it's not my cup of tea, but I'm kind of sensitive about these things.)

Explanation 3, Watsonian, WHICH I CANNOT SHAKE EVEN THOUGH IT'S AWFUL: look, Eliot's gruff, Eliot's grumpy, that's normal enough. but where he starts getting unsympathetic and scary (from the witness' perspective) is when the guy starts sounding like he's going to be sick, and then is. which. um.

look. I don't necessarily want to connect these dots but Eliot has been knocked out, drugged, taken captive etc many times. he has absolutely vomited in horrendous conditions with no opportunity to get clean anytime soon. what with his clear revulsion here (enough to treat a terrified guy in his custody pretty uncaringly), and with the similar reaction in Redemption when I think Mr Wilson has a difficult time post-fight, like. it isn't a pleasant thing to be around for anyone, but still, his reaction seemed extreme.

am I suggesting that being around other people being sick yeets his brain right back to the bad place: yes.

am I making it one step worse by speculating that it might not be him being hurt that he gets thrown back to, but him hurting other people? also yes.

add to that the witness being actively terrified and pleading for his life...

there is no good way to end this line of thought.

unless it's the old draft I just found and apparently never posted:

very occasionally I think about the fact that we have twice (if you include Redemption) seen Eliot react strongly and negatively to ppl vomiting, and I get as far as thinking "huh, I wonder if there's a reason for that" and just glancing at his Entire Backstory and then just. stop.

[dying-suffering-french-stalkers]

Finally watching Goodbye Partner!  I’m watching the dub, but I have the subs on so I can read the date/location popups and signs, so I’m getting a bit of dialogue comparison.  I’ll probably go back and watch a few scenes with the original audio as well (Kiyoshi Kobayashi my beloved).

Here begins the liveblog, but all in one post and under a cut so it’s not as insufferable:

Starting strong with a heist escape sequence as per usual!  As far as openings go, it’s hard to go wrong with that.

Oh, hello, literal actual Chopin courtesy of a timeskip/flashback.

What are these RWBY-ass CGI piano hands??  Y’all warned me and you were not kidding.  Traditional rotoscoping would never hurt me in this way.

CUSTODY_OF_CHILD.JPG

Lupin playing in those see-through inflatable “hamster” balls skdfjskjdflsl

Intricate Rituals.  Jiglup gunplay confirmed

Epcar’s delivery here was so much more aggressive than Kobayashi’s.

“Area 61, Colorado” just say Cheyenne Mountain

EDWARD ZNOWDEN

Fujiko really is terrible with kids

Listen, I love a good Dutch angle, but I’m starting to feel like I should set up a CinemaSins counter at this point.  I’m glad to have some shot variety but there are other compositions, you know.

Motorcycle Jigen returns!!

Loving this little Morricone shoutout, which I unfortunately cannot seem to find on YouTube.

[strangled Goemon voice] “MISTAKE.”

God. GOD. Tony Oliver’s delivery in the betrayal scene is so good.  Lupin is clearly not buying it at all and is quite willing to play along with whatever the hell this is - until Jigen shoots him right in the heart.  That’s going to hurt a lot more than literally when he wakes up, though 1) given that the movie’s barely begun, I’m guessing he’s still not completely buying it (rightfully so) and is gonna look into this and 2) unfortunately this franchise isn’t known for actually digging into all the delicious angst and implications it likes to sling around.  Cowards.

Also, I like that Lupin seems to be wearing a navy shirt and pink tie like he had in early Part 2 instead of the blue shirt/yellow tie he has in the other Red Jacket movies.  Not sure why that’s what they went with but I’m down.

Okay, I went back and watched the betrayal scene in Japanese and OOF, it hits DIFFERENT to hear Kiyoshi Kobayashi deliver those lines.  He’s so utterly casual about it and it’s all the more angsty since he’s, y’know, a million years old, so here his Jigen sounds much more tired/resigned compared to Epcar’s brasher gunman.

The way that the shots focus on not only Jigen, but also Fujiko when the boss asks about the betrayal...nice.  Fujiko doesn’t know for sure if Jigen killed Lupin, but I imagine such a possibility would shake her at least a little - not just because she cares for that silly monkey man, but because that partnership has been a surprising constant in her life.  If even that could finally crumble, her natural cynicism is about to get a whole lot deeper.  Morbidly, she wants to know if Jigen had the balls to do it.  It’d be a hell of a lot more kindred spirit between them than she ever expected if so.  It’s a shame this plot wasn’t used in a Koike movie; it would’ve been great to see the deliberate parallel/foil from TWCFM continue.

“Why don’t we talk about your future?” the boss says as Jigen’s whole demeanor screams What future?  Even though Lupin isn’t dead and Jigen has his reasons for why he did this, Jigen hardly expects forgiveness after all this.  Lupin may be alive but Jigen has just killed the best thing he ever had and he can never get that back (except he can, because movie and long-running franchise, but y’know, Watsonian vs. Doylist).

The Dark Crystal (1982)

HATSUNE MIKU???  ACTUAL HATSUNE MIKU????? (just her voice but aksdjfkajsdkfjaklsjdfljasjdflajsdf)

Ohhhh, the Lupin & Clarisse / Jigen & the kid’s mom (still haven’t heard her name lmao) parallel was just uncalled for, my heart

Let Jigen wear burgundy more often

...Mr. Epcar, I love and respect you, but is it too much to ask that you vary your inflection a little more?  Where’s the PATHOS?

Slightly cried instantly, “The Wendy lady lives.”  Then Peter knelt beside her and found his button.  You remember she had put it on a chain that she wore round her neck.  “See,” he said, “the arrow struck against this. It is the kiss I gave her.  It has saved her life.”

BLACK JACKET

Burgundy suit + round glasses Goemon!!!

There’s no way Pops is getting his job back after this one

Goemon: [turns his usual hot girl swordsmanship up to 11]

Lupin: Well mark me down as scared AND horny! dot jpeg

Again with the CGI hand crimes.

Wow he straight-up said Jigen was cheating on him

Ah, see, that “waste of oxygen”/“huge mistake” bit of dialogue is the kind of inflection I like to hear.

WarGames (1983)

It took me entirely too long to realize the president was supposed to look like H.illary.

Goemon: [slices open a door for Fujiko]

Fujiko: “Oh, you.” <3

This is all very action-heavy and surprisingly decent for a Lupin film so far, but uh. why is Jigen once again a side character in his own movie?

Ayyyy, nice reference to Zantetsuken’s composition from Part 1.  Still insane that they melted down three awesome swords to make a different sword though.

Goemon snarks back to robots confirmed.  Not that Lupin would ever be stupid enough to buy an Al3xa/etc. but can you IMAGINE

JAZZ PIANIST FUJIKO!  Fujiko having actual interests and hobbies!!!

Comrade Emilka

TRIPLE PARALLEL WITH JIGEN & ALISA NOW

They just?? left Jigen in the middle of the desert after the absolute minimum discussion of All That????  That’s...on-brand actually but give me the angst this plot device deserved >:(

Michelle Ruff I would die for you

This variation on the main theme is my favorite.  I’ve probably listened to it about a thousand times at this point but I finally got to hear it in context.

Welp, that was one of the better Lupin movies I’ve seen, but I do wish they’d done more with the whole Jigen betrayal thing that ended up being more of a subplot.  Thank goodness for fics that do the work.

Edit: “There are about four different plots going on at once in this movie, and they forgot to focus on the one that’s in the actual title.” - @theimpossiblescheme

[shy-magpie]

RQG 156

live blog under the cut

Heads up about half way through I realized I go a bit further into analysis on where Zolf & the Kobolds are mentally than some people might be comfortable with. Just as they trust us to back off if the episode gets to real, I am trusting you to close the tab if my little live blog is hitting you wrong. If it makes a difference I have years between me and the reason I relate to this stuff.

"In Memorium" they are trying to kill us Ah they lampshaded the speed intros Yes Alex it is rather Paris Right to Azu & Zolf. Oh he's jumping right in. And there's my first pause of the episode. No “better” isn't a magic finish line you pass then never find yourself in that place again. No, knowing that doesn't mean you don't wonder if your back at square one every time you realize You Are In A Bad Place and Not Handling it Well. Gosh Azu is good at this. Yeah learning to walk away is hard. Learning to ignore the part of yourself that says "and never come back for their sake" is harder. Symbolic much Alex (Zolf is too small for the room, Azu is too large) Yeah it would be easier to not blame Zolf for last episode if I related to him a bit less. Okay they are talking about Hamid and their concerns for him directly. Yeah Hamid's relationship with power & privilege is an arc; and without the Doylist level of trusting Bryn & Alex, I can see where even if you trust/like him you'd be worried about it. With the best of intentions people misuse power. Azu quoted Grizzop at Zolf. Didn't name him, wonder if Zolf is ever going ask directly about his replacement in canon or if its best left to fic. Its easy to dismiss one's own successes. Okay fair and OW, Zolf isn't up to talking about Sasha; which is the part of this I was most prepared for. Hell yeah! He is coming down but not going to be attempting to lead so as to relieve pressure on himself. Maybe if he can let Hamid step up without making a Kew Garden thing he'll see how much he's grown. Hopefully without that setting off a "Hamid does better without me" thing. Yeah intellectual knowledge and it feeling real on an emotional level are very different things. Alex, why does it matter what order they are in? ALEX? The necklace? The Heart of Aphrodite shaped necklace? Azu got a Sign from Aphrodite approving of her reaching out to Zolf as an act of love. Yes! Blue Black no take backs! Yeah those two (players) know exactly what they are doing: breaking my heart in the best ways and not skipping over the actual work those two (characters) need to put into their relationship with OOC "its all fine now"s. Ok that settles the timeline, Azu went up same night, the device isn't made yet. Yeah Zolf wouldn't, probably best to back off while things are tender while being present enough to assure he isn't planning on leaving. Seriously bless Azu, this has to be at least as hard on her as Helen but she is letting the boys have room to work it out for themselves instead of "trying to help". The last thing either of them need right now is pressure especially on this point. Aw the Kobolds teach Cel draconic. Oh smart kid, not only is it just logical for the Kobolds to work with Cel directly, it might help them get over the "looking to see if the boss approves of how you breathe" stage. Especially if he is clear about not being threatened by them having advantage over him in this area. Heck of a relief this isn't hitting my rank issues. Ooh all the Kobolds are amazing engineers, wonder if its a Kobold thing or if Skraak recruited people with similar interests. Nice rework of the "Kobolds build traps" thing from pathfinder. I genuinely love how instead of pitching the original description of Kobolds out the window, Alex has backwards engineered it. Reputation for traps isn't a dishonorable approach to fighting, its a sign of their skill. They aren't minions, their trauma is interacting with a cultural attitude about rank in weird ways. Oh Cel! Cel is amazing. Under Shoin's orders they: made Magic Steroids, did maintenance (more towards the end as Shoin wasn't taking care of things), built the place initially, sourced ingredients, other Kobolds built the Mechkraken. Damn Shoin, they can't even be proud of all they were able to do in adverse circumstances because he tainted it. If they weren't forced to do it and have it used for ill ends, building the kraken would be impressive. A lot of that sounds like difficult work. Hamid stuff: yeah it is from a place of fear; and they would be hypersensitive and need to try to "defend him" so he doesn't react. Terrified of his anger? Handle anything that even annoys him to cut it off at the pass. And being a good person who doesn't like scaring them, Hamid is going to over do the very "Mary Sunshine" routine that makes Zolf think he doesn't appreciate the gravity of the situation. You'd think Mr "do a grief later" would get that Hamid doesn't have to walk the halls wailing to be aware of the end of the world. Not that the kid can win, if he cried and threw up it would be proof he hasn't grown from season one. Hopefully by taking a back seat Zolf will have a chance to see Hamid's actions and realize being chipper & wholesome doesn't mean stupid. Oh Alex has thought this through, one of these days I'll quit being surprised he actually gets this stuff. Not being able to read the person whose emotions feel like life & death is a Bad Thing. Thank Alex for Skraak. Weird seeing this stuff from this side, of course learning to focus on my end instead of being preoccupied with what was going on in the heads of people who were on Hamid's end of it was rather the point. Perfect balance, Hamid gives them enough space to realize he isn’t going to explode, Skraak "translates" into something clear enough not to stress them out. Like when Zolf snapped at Skraak when he pledged to Hamid; might not be pretty but not knowing what The Powers That Be want? Very bad place. Rank and clear orders are very important when appeasing those who outrank you is everything. Cel has dealt with a lot of young and unsure apprentices!?! Yeah well Cel isn't in their chain of command and gears don't get offended if you have an opinion on the right way to configure them. Cel is great Azu & Hamid talking about Zolf! Helen is wonderful! I thought this was going to be drawn out and indirect, instead they are actually facing things head on and dealing with them. Aw these two are so good for each other. Azu would set aside her own emotions. Hot damn Azu, getting right to it! Hamid can be amazingly open about his self awareness and it surprises me every time. It fits him and is a very good thing, but going from answering "how are you?" with "the Kobolds are doing well" to "I never knew how to help him" without it being jarring made me do quite the double take. Guess I was expecting more deflection. Yeah well you two are redefining your boundaries, entire relationship, and rank in specific, while being the perhaps the only people with enough of the picture to figure out how to save the world. Working out the balance between conflicting views on that, when neither of you knows what the end will look like was never going to be smooth. Oh yes and none of you have directly addressed that half of Zolf's rank & dick measuring stuff is because he doesn't know if he even has a role if he isn't The Boss or The Healer.* Oh the grin in Alex's voice as he tells them there is something else before the brorb interview. Whisky tumblers for each? Quite a sigh there Ben News? Big news? While they were in the institute? They ought to sit down. Wilde get to it. Ah Azu & Hamid are holding hands. Poor kid with his prop. Letter? Ancient Rome? Sasha? Are all the fics coming true? Their founder "Askingus"!?! Oh Sasha, oh Zolf! Lydia! Oh the kids! She named the kids after the party. She even found her faith. A break? How the hell are we only half way through the episode. Also hell yeah Lydia deserves all the awards, that was an amazing letter. XD Ben! Oh Hamid, we reacted that way to the epilogue that way too. It really is okay, it was a good end. Yeah he could use a drink. Poor Zolf. Hamid gives Wilde a hug. "technically I think that makes Sasha my boss". XP be cryptic Alex, The RSB will have it figured out by Friday. Ok Zolf got to read the letter on his own. Azu lit 3 candles, because Helen wants me to cry. Hamid is at Zolf's door with a bottle and two glasses. Lydia this is a compliment to your skill. More direct than I expected from Hamid. Oh these two! Okay he is drunk enough to go there (angry at Zolf for leaving but he gets it). About time someone told Zolf directly he's grown. Aw Zolf puts him to bed. Thank you Alex! Ben! (okay fair, if any of Hamid was left he'd cuddle). Sorry Cel! Lydia wanted to break/heal our hearts more than she wanted the plot to move forward ;) Good plan: take the orb to the anti magic field, only those who have already talked to it can talk directly. Info control. Hive mind/telepathy directly addressed. Finally what Shoin eats is addressed. Ok Cel has some teeth on them. Hasn't fed it, is using the vibration to threaten to explode his brain, (no English doesn't have enough pronouns we are working on it)... Oh good point better feed it. Aw Zolf is possessive of the kitchen. Shoin is still Shoin. Cel is not happy about not being recognized. Nice to hear the boys working together. The Infection might block him from being directly aware of  being infected. Bullsh$% he backed himself up. Good point Zolf even if he does, they are separate lives, this instance can still fear death. Oh all the party have teeth, nice they don't have the "good guys have to be sweet & gentle with the baddies" thing Yeah Cel isn't stupid, the brorbs arm isn't a threat. Oh auto painting that will make the people theorizing on the bio side of how the Brorb works happy. A circulatory diagram, and am ocean of faces. Paints like a printer. A creepy charcoal sketch of London staring at the artist. *I swear on Rusty Tower if they let him hurt himself any worse because he thinks his new role is "a brick wall on wheels" I am joining the line to fight Ben in a Whetherspoons parking lot. Yes it would be in character but so would healing. There are other hills. Although seriously its been great having a character that shows so many of the aspects of depression that usually get left out. That Zolf is also a three dimensional character with a full personality beyond just "the one with mental health issues" while not making it look like those issues are tacked on or easy to handle? Stunning work.  

[f4liveblogarchives]

Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #107

Sat April 7 2018 [00:42:57] <Wackd> Folks, a big hand for our regular artist for the next three years, Mr. John Buscema! [00:43:41] <maxwellelvis> This is actually a good reason to cheer. [00:44:21] <Wackd> So! First order of business--get all this fucking ice out of here. [00:44:22] <Bocaj> Woo John Buscema! [00:44:27] <Bocaj> You're better than some other johns [00:44:34] <maxwellelvis> He is a DAMN FINE artist http://static.flickr.com/2700/4325639064_d49953295d_b.jpg [00:45:04] <Wackd> well uh he DID give iron man a creepy human face [00:45:08] <Wackd> so let's not overstate things [00:46:13] <Wackd> So Johnny has to basically insta-evaporate the ice as soon as it melts back to water, so that no water touches any wires. [00:46:41] <Wackd> Clearly throwing fire at it is the best way to accomplish this and this is all perfectly safe. [00:48:33] <Wackd> The procedure works! [00:48:52] <Wackd> And now Ben can switch between being the Thing and being human at will! [00:49:34] <Wackd> (Reed says this is something Ben "didn't expect", but for the record, this is something that was mentioned two issues ago.) [00:50:27] <Wackd> Right now, it takes Ben strain and effort to transform, but Reed assures him it'll get easier with time. [00:53:18] <Wackd> GOD i just want these two idiots to be happy without falling into a pit of mutual self-loathing

[00:54:31] <Bocaj> Damn't alicia [00:54:47] <Wackd> like, i think this is why i ship them so hard, is because seeing them work through their issues and be happy together would be SO SATISFYING [00:55:13] <Wackd> i dunno how i'm gonna feel about the, like, three other love interests ben is gonna have at some point [00:55:22] <maxwellelvis> I think this is like, the first of at least TWO times in the 70's where Ben is human briefly. [00:55:58] <maxwellelvis> Well they try to redo the two-person pity-party ping-pong with Sharon Ventura, but not nearly as deftly, I think. [00:56:41] <Wackd> We'll get to that when we get to that. [00:57:15] <Wackd> So anyway Johnny sees Ben and Alicia happy and immediately starts angsting about Crystal. [00:57:47] <Wackd> "Not a single word from her--since she rejoined the Inhumans!" Johnny. Buddy. That happened EARLIER TODAY. [00:58:07] <Wackd> I'm pretty sure Sue didn't even know this was a thing that happened until you said that, that's how recent this was. [01:01:38] <Wackd> So Johnny's sulking transitions into how he's the youngest and no one takes him seriously and so on and so on. [01:02:07] <Wackd> Which okay fine but Johnny, right now you're angsting that your girlfriend left you because she was in mortal peril, and hasn't called you since she left like an hour ago. [01:02:16] <Wackd> That--that's kinda hard to take seriously! [01:02:49] <maxwellelvis> Not to mention worrying, because the last time you got like this, you nearly committed a war crime. [01:02:57] <Wackd> Also true! [01:02:58] <Bocaj> Oh right [01:05:05] <Wackd> hahaha ok sure sue

[01:05:10] <Bocaj> Look, who hasn't committed a war crime in the throes of passion? [01:05:20] <Bocaj> I haven't but I assume that at least three out of five people have [01:06:07] <Bocaj> I'm constantly surprised that Reed/Sue is the one marvel marriage that has stood the test of time [01:06:15] <Bocaj> I know the doylistic reasons why [01:06:18] <maxwellelvis> And I'm pretty sure if he tried to pull that a second time, the others might not FEEL like pulling your bacon out of the frying pan. [01:06:20] <Bocaj> But I'm still constantly shocked [01:07:01] <Wackd> Okay so I wanna make it absolutely clear, Sue's talking a load of bullshit, and this "bad temperedness" has only been happening the last, like, page or so.

[01:07:31] <Wackd> The Four haven't gotten along any better or worse than usual in the past few issues, give or take Johnny, again, nearly committing a war crime. [01:08:35] <Wackd> Sue contemplates a temporary separation but says that being apart from Reed would be more than she could bare, and therefore she can sympathize with Johnny. [01:08:46] <Wackd> Johnny is busy burning Crystal's name into the roof of a water tower. [01:09:35] <Bocaj> Have we seen hatemonger yet? [01:10:08] <maxwellelvis> Yes. [01:10:08] <maxwellelvis> That was ages ago. [01:10:10] <Wackd> Yeah. [01:10:29] <Bocaj> Is it perhaps Hatemonger or Hatemonger's sidekick Irritationmonger? [01:10:48] <maxwellelvis> I still commend Kirby for the whole idea of making him Hitler dressed as an Inquisitor. [01:10:56] <maxwellelvis> Makes it absolutely sure no one would sympathize with him. [01:11:23] <Wackd> https://f4liveblogarchives.tumblr.com/post/171641387078/fantastic-four-vol-1-21 [01:11:26] <maxwellelvis> I think at this time, the Hate-Monger who would next return would actually be the Man-Beast in disguise, and operating a cult. [01:11:36] <maxwellelvis> Using Brother Sun and Sister Moon as his puppets. [01:11:49] <maxwellelvis> (Can you tell that this plot came when the Moonies were in the news?) [01:11:56] <Wackd> Turns out Ben with these new powers is a real jerk. [01:12:14] <Bocaj> Dammit ben [01:12:18] <Wackd> First he turns into the Thing in the middle of a crowded train to freak people out. Alicia doesn't like it. [01:12:34] <Bocaj> Wait he was a jerk without the new powers too [01:12:46] <Wackd> Then he lays flat some hijackers, and then wakes them up so he can wail on them more. [01:12:53] <Wackd> Alicia REALLY doesn't like it. [01:13:06] <maxwellelvis> I'm assuming the later period where he loses his powers entirely and uses a Thing-shaped suit of power armor he's less of a jerk. [01:13:39] <Bocaj> It could look like anything so why did he choose a thing shaped suit [01:14:02] <maxwellelvis> Because the duality of Ben: He doesn't want to be the Thing, but he also feels weird NOT being the Thing [01:14:13] <Wackd> aw jeez poor alicia

[01:14:51] <Bocaj> Dammit ben [01:14:54] <maxwellelvis> Okay, NOW I can believe something's messing with their emotions. [01:15:04] <Wackd> Oh yeah, absolutely. [01:15:32] <maxwellelvis> Something is slowly but surely magnifying their negative traits. [01:15:35] <Wackd> Though I do know the Reed/Sue split is coming so I was half-betting on it happening here. What with Sue saying maybe it'd be good for them to split up for a bit. [01:15:57] <Wackd> But nah, Ben hurting Alicia seals it. Emotion fuckery is happening. [01:16:19] <maxwellelvis> Reed's even more distant than usual, Sue's taking it in less and less stride, Johnny's even MORE pining for Crystal than usual, and Ben is so angry he's taking it out on everyone around him. [01:17:10] <maxwellelvis> This isn't DC, so we can cross Psycho Pirate off the list of suspects. [01:17:51] <Wackd> So, another bit of timeline fuckery brought on by me trying to corral all the Kirby stuff to one side. [01:18:27] <Wackd> We here get our introduction to Janus, who lets himself into Reed's lab, shoots Reed, and lets himself into the Negative Zone. [01:19:08] <Wackd> Next issue, Janus will be revealed to have, like, some kind of second personality or something? And then he'll let Annihilus into our world in issue 109. [01:19:31] <Wackd> Anyway. [01:20:33] <Wackd> We also get a brief Sue interlude where she visits Franklin. She tries to sneak up on him invisibly, but he spots her. [01:20:44] <Wackd> Despite her insistence that she didn't make a sound. [01:21:16] <Wackd> It's weird to me that the craft she took to get there was running silent--though weirder things have happened--but it certainly wasn't invisible. [01:22:06] <Wackd> Anyway, Ben and Johnny get into one of their usual fights, but much angrier than usual. Reed breaks it up so they can solve the Janus problem. [01:22:37] <Wackd> And cliffhanger. [01:22:48] <maxwellelvis> Janus is using his negative powers to- D'OH!I I called it and I didn't even realize it. [01:23:01] <maxwellelvis> I honestly forgot Janus was a thing, and that we were coming up to him again. [01:23:04] <Wackd> I mean. [01:23:07] <Wackd> It's possible? [01:23:09] <Wackd> I dunno. [01:23:25] <maxwellelvis> How defined was his negative powers in the Kirby version? [01:24:22] <Wackd> He mostly had the power to change the world to his whim in physical ways. I don't remember him changing emotions. [01:24:31] <Wackd> I did look at the real 108 already--that hasn't changed. [01:24:40] <maxwellelvis> Ah [01:24:43] <Wackd> But I wouldn't put it past Stan to pull something like that out of his ass. [01:25:05] <maxwellelvis> That one just had Janus in it, no Annihilus, right? [01:25:22] <Wackd> Yeah. [01:25:35] <maxwellelvis> Ah. [01:26:05] <maxwellelvis> Also, I want to put it out there, Janus is very forgettable as a villain. [01:26:07] <maxwellelvis> Visually at least. [01:28:36] <Wackd> Huh. He didn't reappear at all until 2001. [01:28:42] <maxwellelvis> Y'see? [01:28:51] <maxwellelvis> He's just a guy with a bad haircut and a worst costume. [01:28:56] <Wackd> Yeah. [01:28:58] <maxwellelvis> Or the other way around. [01:29:23] <maxwellelvis> And it looks like in the story to come, he doesn't realize how short his arms are. [01:29:35] <Wackd> Literally the only interesting thing about him is that he's Kirby's last Four villain, and circumstances have made it so that makes him LESS appealing.