#and it does make me angry that she's so poorly written compared to other characters on the show

[chutkiandchotte]

Is it too spicy if I say this is IPK themed 👀

No but for real this is a great flaw of so many Indian tv shows and unfortunately, IPK is no exception. A "perfect" female lead is NOT EQUAL TO a well written female lead and Khushi falls into this trope.

I get that it might seem like, if any thing, the show makers are biased towards Khushi. The narrative portrays Khushi as morally righteous even when she isn't (her lecturing about marriage and religion to Arnav and La; her bringing Shyam back against Arnav's wishes; her leaving Arnav for Aarav etc etc) and posits her as a totally innocent victim in many scenarios without giving any acknowledgement of her critical errors in judgement that led to specific situations - such as keeping Shyam's secret. But the truth is, these biases are only the result of the absolute lack of care they put towards writing and developing Khushi's character arc. And of course in general, she's better written than majority of Indian tv heroines because in general, IPKKND is a better written show. But within this same show, you have the example of a brilliantly written anti-hero with complex and satisfying character development; so it hurts to see how they have simply not bothered giving the same level of in-depth and CONSISTENT characterization for Khushi.

No matter how off the rails the show was, or whatever their constraints were with regards to commercial or channel expectations, they rarely compromised on Arnav's characterization which was always crystal clear and razor sharp. In the midst of the silly Swami track, the nonsense Sheetal track, heck in the laughably ridiculous Miss India track, Arnav was not made to do or act in un-Arnav like ways, for the most part. There are a few exceptions, but they're not very noteworthy and don't impact the plot much. They had a clear idea of who he is and what he would do and not do, and they stuck to it.

Not so with Khushi. In a weird parallel to in-universe dynamics, the meta narrative too picks Khushi as the most convenient sacrificial lamb whose characterization is sacrificed to meet channel demands, tv show format demands, and so on. Need to shoe-horn a comedy track where it makes no sense? Why not reduce her IQ several points and have her do totally illogical things with no rhyme or reason for some laughs? Need a low-effort way to justify Khushi spending time with Arnav? Why not make the "mature for her age" Khushi into a childish caricature who plays at being Gopi Bahu to annoy Arnav! Need a sick Arnav for Khushi to take care of? Why not have a selfless and responsible Khushi suddenly transform into someone so selfish and irresponsible, she plots to deliberately make her diabetic husband starve.

On the one hand, they erase all of her positive qualities to give her a host of flaws (stupidity, immaturity, irresponsibility) that are never explored as flaws, but just tools for comedy, picked up and abandoned at whim. On the other hand, her actual flaws and mistakes that could have used an in-depth arc are just...left alone. In fact what even are her flaws? As per the show, she has practically none - they are only lovable quirks.

Arnav's extreme reactions often eclipse Khushi's mistakes; we nor her get the time to sit with and reflect on her errors, instead the focus immediately shifts to him. Her mistakes are so disproportionally punished, it leaves no room for her character development. Character development is best prompted by moments of reflection, regret, and redemption. We get very, very few of these with Khushi - there's simply no space for it in the narrative of the show.

Its a very subtle distinction that is hard to pinpoint at times. For example, we see Khushi's pain showcased front and center time and again - its the classic suffering heroine trope! But is her trauma from Shyam, from Arnav, heck even from her own family, EVER explored in any real meaningful and satisfying way? No - because Khushi's interiority, just like her brain power, maturity, and sense of responsibility, disappears and reappears as per the convenience of the narrative.

You might say its unfair to compare her to Arnav, who is undoubtedly the protagonist of the show. Unusually for romcoms, Arnav is our main character and Khushi is the "love interest". So perhaps we can't expect her character to be explored with the same range and nuance his is. Okay. But consistency, surely, is something we can expect from Khushi? Why is Khushi EVEN MORE inconsistently written than the villain, Shyam, and supporting characters like Anjali?

There's a lot I do love about the way Khushi is written but I HAVE to sift through the material to find the good stuff which is often in contradiction to the bad stuff. Post the elopement, we see really very little consistent characterization with Khushi and the show's overall writing quality heavily suffers as a direct result of this.

And this IS a sexist trope. It falls into the madonna-whore dichotomy where you can only write 2 types of lead female characters: a perfect angel, who is always morally right and usually suffering without much else going on internally; or the vamp, who has her flaws and her complexities with which she entertains us until she is suitably humiliated and punished by the narrative.

A woman with flaws, allowed to learn and grow from them into a more mature and evolved human being??? Who ever heard of such a thing??? Certainly not ITV writers, circa 2011 (or now).

[taraljc]

One thing that always struck me in WandaVision was how Wanda used her powers in ways she hadn't since Age Of Ultron. Once she joined the Avengers, we never see her in Civil War or Infinity War use her powers to control anyone else's minds and bodies, or to induce hallucinations / nightmares.

I think that it is a part of her powers that she rejected--that she herself felt ashamed for using them against the people who would later become her peers. Particularly Steve, who was the first she formed a bond with and who trusted her when she told him the truth about how Tony Stark was incapable of seeing reason vis à vis Ultron.

The only time we ever see her use her ability to control others by imposing her will upon them was when she had the soldiers retrain their guns on Director Hayward. and the only time we see her induce an hallucination again was with Agatha. Hayward and Agatha were the villains of the piece in the traditional sense and she felt justified in her behaviour, but that doesn't mean that it was right and moral.

But I do think that was the moment when she stopped hating that part of herself and recognised that she had been closing parts of herself off because she was uncomfortable with them. And it was in a way her accepting culpability for her prior actions as well as recognising that power is neither innately good nor evil but merely a tool that can be put to any purpose and it's the intention that matters.

I don't think Teen has processed yet what truly happened with Agatha, Jen, and Lilia when his powers manifested. I think he feels deep regret and shame, coupled by remorse and guilt about what he in that moment believes to be his culpability in their deaths. obviously this will be short-lived, and I think it will be very interesting to see their reactions once they catch up to Agatha and Teen.

One of the parallels that I am really enjoying them exploring are the parallels between both Agatha and Wanda, and Wanda and Teen. I actually hope that Agatha is able to help Teen understand and accept his power in all the ways she wasn't able to help Wanda, not because she wants to siphon his magic but because she genuinely cares no matter how much she hides it behind the various masks that she wears.

Part of the reason I was so angry about Multiverse of Madness is that it completely ignored the fact that no-one knew Wanda was a witch prior to the events in Westview and even then, only Wanda knew any of that. None of the public did. So far as the Avengers and the wider world understood, her powers were the result of a science experiment by Hydra exactly the same way Steve Rogers had been during World War II.

Only she knew what had happened in Westview, and she had to process that information in complete isolation while being corrupted by the Darkhold, but with no knowledge whatsoever of the history of witchcraft or its place in the world when compared to sorcery.

And instead of actually exploring that, it's completely skipped because it's inconvenient to the story they want to tell, which had no actual basis in Wanda's story thus far. Stephen Strange and Wong act as if it's common knowledge that Wanda is practicing witchcraft and that they had always known that Wanda was practicing witchcraft which is a HUGE continuity error that no-one has ever actually addressed. And it bothers me a great deal because so much of the plot of the film hinges on knowledge that there is no way anyone could have gained. To the point where I've basically discounted it completely as not part of the MCU because it doesn't fit. none of the pieces fit with the other films and it doesn't build off of the first film well nor does it fit with WandaVision and it's just so poorly written in direct comparison to Spider-Man: No Way Home.

but what I love about Jac Schaeffer is that she has taken the hot mess and character assassination of Multiverse Of Madness and found a way to make it work with everything that has gone before in ways that make sense logically and emotionally. and at no point does it judge Wanda for her actions when she was under the direct influence of the Darkhold and her judgment was completely impaired. But neither does it sugarcoat her actions in Westview. she is responsible, and accepts responsibility for her actions even though her actions were not under her control and she was unaware of the true extent of them until Agatha kidnapped her children and gave her her first lesson in the craft.

Much like the events of Civil War where Wanda was able to partially contain an explosion created by former SHIELD/Hydra agents that would have murdered countless thousands of people (not to mention brought the entire building down) she still bore the guilt for those deaths she could not prevent and shouldered responsibility for them in public even though they were not her fault and in fact she spared everyone in the immediate area through her quick thinking.

Wanda has always accepted that she deserves whatever misfortune befalls her because she somehow deserves her pain. It's survivor's guilt taken to be extreme and that's I think why WandaVision hit me so hard because of course she doesn't deserve loss after loss after loss with no comfort and no family to support her-- found or otherwise. No-one does.

I genuinely hope that Teen avoids this fate because he doesn't deserve it, either. He's only a few years younger than his mother was when she was duped by Hydra, and I hope that Agnes will be a better tutor and mentor to him even if it is only for the final four episodes of the series.

The first episode would not have mentioned how absorbing Rio's power would destroy Agatha without that being Chekhov's gun. but my hope is that it won't be permanent, even if it is inevitable.

[mercedesdecorazon]

LITG: The Problem with Erikah

Okay, there are some discourse about Erikah making a mistake with the whole Cherrygate situation, I kind of agree and disagree with it. Let me explain.

So after the whole Cherrygate situation, Erikah does NOT take accountability for her actions and the other characters don't let her either, when honestly? MC had EVERY to be angry with her. Not to mention Erikah does gaslight MC and if MC does not fall for it, Erikah gets angry.

She acts very passive-aggressive to MC, even if MC forgives her.

Yes, Erikah isn't the villain of the season, but she is NOT a good person and she kind of deserves the backlash.

But the problem is, thanks to Erikah's actions in Season One, it pretty much set the prescient of how future bw characters would be treated in the fandom:

-Hope from Season Two is a good person. Poorly written yes but compared to Erikah, Hope is a good person but she gets so much hate because she's very possessive and 'snakey' while Lottie and Chelsea get all the love even though they're just as awful. Not to mention the whole humdrum that happened when people realised that Lucas is attracted to Hope, despite the fact ALL the other male characters in the game are attracted to someone else besides MC, is just awful.

-Genevieve from Season Three and Thabi from Season Four are both pretty harmless but they get so much hate because they get together with unavailable LIs Seb and Will - the same way Hope got a lot of hate for being with Noah.

This is misogynoir all around and it's all thanks to how FB wrote Erikah.

Yes, they tried to rectify it in MM but the damage is done and it's everlasting 😔

I don't like Erikah. As a black woman, I'll admit that. But I am saddened at how she was written for me not to like her. She's not a good person, let's all admit that.

But I am heartbroken that her poor character arc ruined how the fandom would treat her successors Hope, Genevieve, Thabi, Najuma and Cora.

[pale-silver-comb]

So I know absolutely nothing about Leverage except what I've been seeing you post lately and I have to admit you're making it look tempting to watch! Can I ask what are some of your favorite things about the show/reasons you would suggest people watch it? And is there really a poly relationship that is canon?

Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I am going to do my best not to just “asdfghkjl” at you and answer coherently.

In a nutshell, Leverage is about 5 people. 4 are criminals (Parker, Hardison, Eliot and Sophie) with different and unique skill-sets and 1 is an ex-insurance investigator (Nate) who, at one point or another in his career, has tracked down (or at least attempted to) the other 4. The whole show is essentially: man reluctantly reforms 4 criminals to use their criminal powers for good and 4 criminals move into man’s life and stubbornly refuse to leave because, goddammit, now they have morals. 

I’ve got a lot of favourite things about the show but the main ones are as follows:

1. Found family. And I’m not talking about loners who come together to fight crime and happen to co-exist to the point where they realise they happen to have found themselves a family. I mean, Nate and Sophie are the Drunk Uncle and Wine Aunt who somehow become Mom and Dad to 3 beautiful criminal children. Mom and Dad love their criminal babies and the kids love them (as well as each other, but we’ll come to that in a moment). You get amazing family moments such as: Mom and Dad packing the kids lunch before sending them out to kick corporate greed’s ass; Mom and Dad giving the kids ridiculously expensive and personal Christmas presents causing their most Grumpy Kid to go very very quiet and soft as he runs off to gleefully play with his new murder toy; the kids interrupting Mom and Dad’s big Movie Style Kiss to ask if they can please keep their new underground layer and huffing and puffing when Dad tells them no.

2. Found family: the OT3 edition. To answer your question, the OT3 is indeed canon, confirmed by the creator. Now, usually, “confirmed by the creator” infuriates me because most of the time it’s a way for a creator to be seen as “progressive” without doing anything to actually be progressive. That isn’t the case here. The OT3 are built up carefully and while it is obvious the creators didn’t originally intend for all 3 of them to become a relationship in the romantic sense, by mid-season 5 we are given a very clear picture of where Parker, Hardison and Eliot are heading in their relationship. There aren’t any kisses at the end to signal this but there are solid marriage vows in not only one but two episodes. (And by marriage vows I mean literal equivalents of marriage vows: “for better or worse” and “’til death do us part”. I’m not even exaggerating). The OT3 also doesn’t need explicit romantic narratives to convey how much they love each other. Their love is laced through the whole show, from the way they teach each other things to the way they respond to each other and work as a unit. The way they fiercely protect and admire each other. Like someone once said, if you need characters to kiss or say I love you to let the audience know they love each other, you are writing them wrong. 

Aside from that, each of the parings in the OT3 are just. Gah. They are so well done, with friendship being the solid basis for them all. The creators never expect the audience to assume anything about them or fill in the gaps. They give us their relationships on screen and reference many things off-screen to show us how these relationships continue to build in between episodes.

Hardison and Parker are a canon couple and date in the show: it’s approached slowly and they are so goddamned sweet. They are basically every fluffy slow-burn trope with a healthy dash of mutual pining in the mix. They are basically that quote “love is patient, love is kind”. (I would like to add their romance never becomes the focus of the show or overrides the importance of any other relationship they have with the other characters, especially Eliot.)

Hardison and Eliot are the Old Married Couple and from day one are already bickering and looking at each other/making comments that are found in every UST fic ever (not to mention Hardison has a very good knack for making Eliot grin like a little kid, when usually he’s basically an Angry Little Chef Man). They argue, they play, and love each other plain as day. 

Parker and Eliot are more subtle but every bit as wonderful. They have an unspoken connection and understand each other on a level no-one else can. Parker and Eliot are not good with giving themselves over to affection for different reasons (and Hardison plays a central role in helping them realise it’s okay to want it and have it- that boy has endless patience) but there is something so beautiful in the way the two of them come together on their own and develop their own special bond that works for them. Parker and Eliot are that trope where the characters don’t need to speak to understand each other perfectly. They just do. Their love language is a lot of the time non-verbal but speaks volumes. (Parker also likes to annoy the hell out of Eliot and Eliot....just.....lets...her. Because he’s soft. The softest, grumpiest boy.) 

I could go into so much depth for each pairing and their dynamics as a 3 but that's for another post.

3. Subverting stereotypes. There is the occasional hiccup in the show regarding stereotypes but ultimately, Leverage gets an A+ when it comes to writing characters and making them 3 dimensional people who are not defined by certain characteristics or events. Nate could so easily fall into the White Man Pain trope where he uses the trauma of losing his kid as a reason as to why he is entitled to act like a dick. Nate is a dick but he doesn’t use his pain to excuse it and I appreciate that. Hardison is a black man who is soft and nurturing. Easily the most empathetic and patient of the group. He’s nerdy, an actual genius, and has the biggest heart of all the characters. Nate is maybe the glue but Hardison is definitely the heart. Media’s usual aggressive, amongst other, racist stereotypes can fuck right off. Parker is canonically autistic (I am sure this was confirmed by one of the creators) and she is not defined by it. It’s not written as some kind of singular personality trait. It’s part of what makes up Parker but it’s only one facet of who she is and not once is her actions, thoughts or feelings treated like a joke. Sometimes people don’t understand why she does and says the things she does but it’s met with patience and fondness over the course of the show. Equally, it’s not met with over-caution. Parker is just Parker. No-one tries to change her. The other nice thing is Hardison, who always makes sure Parker knows she’s amazing because of who she is and not in spite of it. Finally, Sophie is in her 40s. She’s not treated like she’s past her prime. Ever. She’s sexy, smart and never is she pitted against or compared to Parker (who is younger) for anything. Sophie is amazing and there’s never even a conversation of “I may be older but I am still *insert adjective typically associated with younger women here*”. Sophie is possibly the first female character I’ve ever seen who isn’t just unapologetic about her age but has never had to apologise for her age. It’s a non-issue and that’s that. The women on the show are written so well, right down to secondary characters and it’s beyond refreshing.  

4.) It’s just fun. The show has a “monster of the week” type format. Except instead of a ghoul or a ghost, the monster is some corrupt wealthy and powerful individual or organisation. The show draws on real-life individuals to do this and therefore closely parallels real-life people and events. It addresses important political, economical, social and environmental issues while at the same time remaining fun and light-hearted. The characters constantly get the chance to play dress up and by GOD do they have fun with it. You get to watch Eliot beat up bad guys in the most delightful of ways, usually after a witty non-sequitur and with a weapon you’d never think could be a weapon. The dialogue and back and forth between the characters is everything. And finally - my favourite thing- the team can never resist striking a dramatic pose after they’ve taken down the bad guy, making sure the bad guy sees them. I mean, they COULD just walk away, satisfied they’ve taken the person down, but nope. They gotta be dramatic bitches 24/7 and pose like they are models for every single month of this year’s Criminal Calendar.  

5.) Competence Porn. So. Much. Competence Porn.  

Honestly, I could list a thousand reasons for why Leverage is amazing but to list them would to be spoiling so many amazing moments you’d get to discover for the first time on your own if you do choose to watch it. It’s the kind of show you can watch with an eagle-eye and sink your teeth into. But it’s also the kind of show if, you would prefer, put on in the background for something entertaining while you do something else. Each episode is about the job at hand but it’s made up of so many moments between the characters that show how much the creators and writers care about them. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll do whatever it is you do when something Soft and Wonderful happens that makes your heart melt. I am so beyond grateful for Leverage. It’s everything I always wanted in a show. Nearly every show I’ve watched in the past 10 years has disappointed me in some way, usually either because the writers run out of steam or characters who I love are treated poorly or given some kind of unnecessary “shock value” arc. Leverage doesn’t do that. Leverage is what it says on the bottle. Fandom isn’t something I joined because I needed canon fix-its. Fandom only enhances and celebrates an already excellent canon. 

[emblazons]

so bc mike didn’t reciprocate wills feelings he hasn’t “grown one iota this season.” I guess I don’t understand dumping on mike and constantly listing all his faults but still shipping him romantically with will

Respectfully: I am not inherently “anti-Mike.” If anything, I think Mike Wheeler has some amazing character traits that have shined dramatically throughout the seasons, namely: his loyalty to his friends, his willingness to lead, and his heartfelt protectiveness (and emotional awareness) of his people. I am not “dumping on Mike” for not growing because he’s not with Will—rather it is my love for Mike’s individual character potential (along with El’s & Will’s too) that makes me angry he hasn’t grown out of the same tired arc he’s been low key stuck in since season 3. Honestly I cannot even imagine canon Mike being in a relationship Will right now despite preferring it over Mileven historically, because frankly I think the Duffer’s did him + his relationship with Will dirty. His character development has gotten so stale it’s backtracked, and my boy deserves SO much better.

You can disagree if you want to, but…with the addition of the last two episodes, the sense overall is that all Mike did this season was replay the same exact character arc he had last season with some minor plot deviations, what with not being able to say he loves El to her face (despite them being together for years at this point) and then having it magically come out only when she’s in danger. He expressed to Will that he’s afraid he’s not enough in that car, but rather than giving him the space to figure it out for himself (or even with El herself?!) the answer is supplied to him BY Will…who is then forced to undermine his own emotions to give Mike confidence, and not once but twice. That isn’t real growth for Mike—it’s just (ironically enough) a “piggyback” on something Will has figured out for himself about his own emotions.

Sure—Mike does (finally) say “I love you” to El, and it’s sweet…in a tropey, stereotypical kind of way (if you’re into that). Mostly though…it’s just painfully childish, especially compared to not just what Will feels for Mike, but also what other couples in the show (Lumax, and even STANCY) have figured out how to communicate. He brings up her being a “superhero” to him as though that’s what she wants or needs to hear as a reason for his love (even though she damn near scoffed at it during their 4x3 fight), and while he does digress enough to admit his fears…he’s not done anything outside of expressing them in the canon to legitimate grow as a person and RESOLVE them, as an individual outside of El. He, unlike El this season, sat in stasis for the majority of this season—“stoner action comedy” energy, as Finn himself said.

Mike didn’t even get the chance to be challenged just as a PERSON by Will either—Will didn’t even get a chance to really confide in Mike as a friend (nevermind come out to/share his romantic feelings), which also means Mike couldn’t show support/be challenged to grow as an individual/friend that way. Sure, we got that moment earlier in the season when Mike apologized to Will for feeling distant/focusing too much on El…but immediately after that, not even a few episodes later, we get Mike doing the exact same thing to Will he apologized for, in a way 1.5M times more painful: prioritizing his preoccupation with El over his relationship with Will entirely—so much so that Will tells his first ever major lie to Mike…honestly ever, in the form of projecting his own romantic feelings on to El. Even in that moment Will mentions that what he’s doing is meant to rip off the pain of Mike being oblivious “like a bandaid,” which, alongside his teary eyes and eventual sobs not even a foot away, this new poorly written Mike (unlike his younger self) doesn’t even notice.

All and all Mike didn’t have a moment to do a damn thing other than tell El to “fight” FOR HIMSELF, and later, after the main action when you might imagine Mike and El had a moment to actually talk again—for him to communicate and bond with her as just a person going through a horrible time having lost Max, nevermind as his girlfriend—we don’t see that: we get a time skip, El marching into her room, and then Mike saying to Will they didn’t talk about anything but something Brenner said to her.

—All that to say: I am not mad at Mike for not getting with Will, like you seem to believe. My thinking he hasn’t grown has almost nothing to do with Byler at all. I am irritated that his growth compared to most other characters AND couples feels stuck so far behind everyone else, to the point where the small “growth” we got feels undermined and unpleasant (and comes at the expense of another favorite character of mine, Will). I am mad at the Duffers for not giving one of my fave characters the personal, individualized and SOLO growth he deserves, reducing him TO being the weakest and least interesting of a love triangle, whether it’s Will or El who is with him.

I am not inherently here to ship things—I am here for good writing, and despite my undying love for Finn Wolfhard’s portrayal of him, Mike Wheeler, the character, got the short end of that stick all around this season.

[shayneysides]

The writers in tua really added in a rising sun flag in s3 and the “ open up your kimono” line klaus said towards Ben was super weird considering bens korean, not to mention the fandom treats Lila like shit especially after s2 dropped the double standards were horrible. What are your thoughts on how Asian characters are treated by the writers in tua?

Oh my god I've been waiting for someone to ask me this for ages. Right off the bat I am gonna just say I can't really speak on how the fandom treated Lila when she was first introduced because I wasn't in the fandom then (I was there for s1 and s3 when they came out, but not s2). I can however speak about the other characters! 

Ben throughout s1 and s2 honestly doesn't have much character at all, in my opinion- I guess he's snarky, and kind of mean, and? is sad about being dead, I guess? But he mostly acts as Klaus's conscience in s1 and honestly just a thorn in his side in s2. His only moment of true plot importance is when he speaks to Viktor and is able to calm him down, effectively stopping the apocalypse- it's an amazing scene that really utilizes Ben as a character. Which is why it sucks that he literally dies right after it, and doesn't get any other scenes like that! I understand that he's dead, and there's only so much you can do with him, but it's still a little disappointing that he has next to no character development and just serves to forward the development of a white character.

Sparrow Ben is a whole other thing- thank god he at least has some depth to his character this time! I think they did a good job making him an asshole without making him completely unlikeable, and I really loved his whole arc of just wanting to be part of the family. I think his overall writing is pretty good, even though there are some weird moments- the "open up your kimono" line is entirely unnecessary and they very well could've just said robes or something like that. The moment where Ben and Diego are arguing and they start arguing in Korean and Spanish respectively- I guess it's funny, but it also strikes me as a little off given that neither of these characters really show any connection to their cultures before this season, and having the moment with that connection be when they're angry and arguing is a questionable decision. Overall, though, I don't have any real issues with how Sparrow Ben is written. 

The scene where Ben is born and we see his parents does bug me a little bit- compared to the other birth scene (Viktor's in s1) where the mother at least get to speak, I wish they had given us any sort of character past giggling schoolgirl. I would love to just once see a depiction of a young Korean woman that isn't just cute and innocent and, well, a giggling schoolgirl. Even compared to the snippets of the other mothers that we see, the rest of them are teachers, businesswomen, or at the very least grown adults, and I just wish Ben's mother could've gotten that.

As for Lila, race feels very removed from her character in general, which can be both a strength and a weakness in the writing. It eliminates weird, uncomfortable moments like what happened with Ben, but it can also remove some depth from her character. I dislike that they really didn't address the racism an Asian woman in the 1960s would face, but I'm also glad s2 didn't just become racism trauma porn. I also dislike that you could argue that she fits the "mysterious, sneaky, fierce mistress of the East" type of stereotype with her "seducing" Diego and then double crossing the Hargreeves, but I also think her character has a lot of depth outside of that argument and she has real motives for everything she does, so I'm not too pressed about it. And I don't mind how she's written in s3, either- I think the whole Stanley plotline is weird and unnecessary, but not really in a way connected to race, it's kind of just poorly written and very poorly casted. Overall, I think the writers have done a pretty good job with Lila, but if anyone disagrees, I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on it (especially since I'm East Asian, not South Asian, and I'm not able to understand as much of the nuance with her character as I am with Ben).

This one isn't exactly a character, but I still want to talk about it- Hotel Oblivion. First off, I didn't even see the rising sun flag when first watching, but I can only assume that's where it appears, and I hate that a lot! That flag represent imperialism, and unless you are specifically referencing that imperialism and the flag has a real reason to be there, you should not use it. I feel like that's common sense at this point, but I guess not. Second, what was up with Hotel Oblivion in general? Why was it Japan-themed? I mean, I know why, it's Orientalism, but you could at least give it a reason in the plot. I really, really hate that the spooky alternate dimension alien mysterious version of an American place is themed around Japan. Like we get it! Hotel Oblivion is a strange, scary place, and making it Japan-themed is either implying that the East is also strange and scary, or worse, that the East is what makes a place strange and scary. 

And then there's how the fandom treats Asian characters, and I know that's not really what you were originally asking, but I feel the need to talk about it. The way the fandom treated Ben throughout s1 and s2 is fucking infuriating. Like I said earlier, even with his lack of depth, Ben's character traits were generally snarky, sarcastic, and kind of sad. So naturally, the fandom treated him like a small child! Asian men, specifically East Asian men, are constantly infantalized, and that's exactly what happened. Everyone treated Ben as this little uwu baby boy cinnamon roll and why? Genuinely when does he act all sweet and innocent, like how fans were treating him? I guess in the bank robbery scene, when he was literally a child! Gee, I wonder why people focused exclusively on that scene, rather than when he punched Klaus in the face, or any of the other scenes where Ben was an asshole- or at the very least, not a literal child. And now that s3 has come out, and Sparrow Ben is extremely explicitly rude and mean, people are finally treating him like the adult he is, and I think it says a lot about how the fandom saw him that it took his whole character becoming a total dick for them to stop woobifying him. And again, I can't really say anything about how the fandom treated Lila post-s2, because I wasn't in the fandom then, but if anyone reading this does have thoughts on it, please feel free to add them here! I haven't really seen much mistreatment of Lila post-s3, but I don't doubt at all that it existed when she was introduced. The most I've seen has been about the Stanley plotline, but that's mostly been (rightfully) making fun of the writers. 

All in all, I think the writers haven't been super explicitly racist with anything except for the whole Hotel Oblivion thing, but they have made some poor choices in their writing. The fandom has definitely been racist, but I'm hoping it's starting to improve, as I've seen more people discussing the actual nuances of Ben's character post-s3. I think some people might read this and be like "But Klaus would say that to any character! But the fandom has woobified other characters too!" to which I say, you cannot treat characters of color the same way you treat white characters. That's it. You cannot treat characters of color the same way you treat white characters. What is a silly little comment from Klaus when directed towards a white character is a weirdly racially charged comment when directed towards an Asian character. You need to be careful when writing and discussing characters of color, because there are going to be different implications to their actions and actions directed towards them. Please, please stop ignoring fans of color when we tell you that your treatment of certain characters is racist, even when it's unintentional. 

Thanks for sending this, anon, I had a lot to say!

[kamadevva]

analysis/interpretation on the ending scene of ōoku

I wanted to get my thoughts out about FGO event Ōoku now that the event is over, I’ve got no idea how Tumblr algorithm works but hopefully someone sees this and adds their own thoughts since I’d love to have discussion on this since I’ve got MANY words about this event tbh.

The main scene I wanted to go over was the ending at least, with the small discussion Kama and Kiara have with one another— to preface this, I sort of wanted to acknowledge for a fact Ōoku is NOT without flaw and is a pretty poorly written event in certain aspects, and I 100% understand why people are frustrated about how cruel this event treats Kama!! To be honest, I think the reason why I interpret the ending scene the way I do is a desperate attempt to give myself some closure over giving Kama some healing, but I wanted to see if anyone agreed first.

Anyways, about the scene itself: when reading through the ending, I personally thought Kiara’s send-off, although obviously still some form of “punishment” and “karmic retribution” was actually motivated by a small, good-intended desire to give Kama a chance of healing at Chaldea.

I sort of wanted to point out this scene in particular, which struck me differently compared to the reactions of other characters:

As observed by other people, I think it’s pretty sucky that most other characters basically congratulated Parvati for forcing a second traumatic experience onto Kama and barely turned an eye to how cruel the usage of her Noble Phantasm actually was (I’m aware Kama needed to be taken down sooner or later since, had their plan succeeded after all, they would’ve never gotten the chance to properly heal, but I still think it’s unnecessarily cruel to throw a second painful incineration specifically led by one of the main sources of their trauma in the first place).

But there is one character who DOES point out their concern for Kama’s fate, and that’s Sessyoin Kiara herself.

Kiara, with no doubt, is a wicked woman with flawed morals— she herself makes it a point to state this and does confirm this is her own way of giving Kama “punishment”.

And yet, what strikes me as important is that Kiara is the only character to point out that Kama had brought their fate on themself— she is, as far as I’m concerned, the only character to observe their motives and morals in its truest form and vaguely attempt to connect and empathize with such a mindset. Kiara also seems to be the only one to pick up on how Kama has a burning hatred for themself in this scene, while other characters of Ōoku tend to pass Kama off as arrogant, egoistical, and haughty.

In a way, I personally believe Kiara noticing the depth behind Kama’s personality and motives is already an act that no other characters of Ōoku provide for (especially Parvati, like wtf?). It reads as a vague attempt of both sympathy and empathy to give Kama a chance to be heard, and even if it is coupled with Kiara’s narcissistic and rather sadistic behavior, I do believe Kiara made nonetheless a small attempt to give Kama a sense of understanding. There even seems to be a vague hint of concern (Kiara later states “Even I would not go that far” regarding the incineration) towards Kama’s self-destructive behavior. Given Kiara’s masochistic tendencies, I only think that line is further important that she full-on admits Kama’s self-hatred actually surpasses her own limits for self-preservation.

Kiara herself actually points out Kama, in the end, has a rather pure and benevolent soul, stating:

While this could be read as Kiara attempting to mock Kama, especially given their angry reaction after— I like to believe that deep down inside, Kiara genuinely did acknowledge the tragedy of Kama’s situation. I once again want to reiterate the fact that scarcely any other character in Ōoku offers this sympathy, and Kiara is, once more, the only person to attempt to describe and observe Kama as an empathetic victim who was mistreated cruelly all throughout.

Then, once Kiara begins the process of assimilating Kama into the servant summoning system:

Punishment or not, Chaldea is exactly an environment Kama needs to heal, and I believe Kiara herself is aware of that— of course, I don’t believe Kiara was doing this out of the goodness of her heart, but there seems to be a hint of genuine concern for Kama behind the statement of redemption and “remaining misunderstood forever”.

Without Kiara sending Kama to Chaldea, it’s possible the tired god of love may have never been able to find peace and healing— more than likely, it feels as if Kama had fully intended to drift in their universe without end, seeing themselves as nothing more than a “loser” with a pathetic personality.

Described by their bond lines, and later their interlude, the type of people Kama needs to heal is found in Ritsuka— they need someone to (metaphorically) “teach” them love, for even if they’re aware of everything about it, they have long forgotten the positive, simple, and wholesome experiences associated with love. They’re aware of its existence, just as they’re aware of the love they held for Rati and Vasanta— but no longer feel any emotional connection or feeling to love in its purest form, and that is where characters like Ritsuka come into play. Chaldea is a place where Kama can “relearn” these experiences once more, and begin their path of healing— and I genuinely believe Kiara was fully aware of this while sending Kama to Chaldea.

Would also like to point out that one of the main motifs of this event was the whole lesson behind Kasuga’s definition of love— rather than endless depravity that spoils people rotten and, as a result, condones evil and sin, love is instead found through a sense of nurturing and guidance— an act of supporting and helping a person grow without necessarily keeping shackles on their development.

Kiara’s actions here seems to be vaguely reminiscent of the love Kasuga feels for the Ōoku and the shoguns— even if she does not presently state this, she similarly desires to reach an understanding with Kama and send them on this path of healing and development. For a woman that ultimately can only love herself, I think it is still important for both of their characters that Kiara was nonetheless capable of hinting, at the very least, empathy for Kama and a desire to give them healing closure no other character in Ōoku attempts to provide.

Again, I don’t deny that Kiara did not have the purest intentions by toying with Kama at the end, and I still believe Ōoku is poorly written in this regard of unnecessarily torturing a trauma victim— but, just as Kama was built by tragedy, Kiara underwent similar— even if Kiara herself is presently aware there is no longer “good” in her and she is no longer the holy woman she once was, Kiara still nonetheless desires for good to exist— just not specifically from herself, and linking Kama with Ritsuka was an example of her trying to keep the existence of good morals. This, to me, also felt like a conclusion to Kiara’s whole practice of self-restraint throughout the event— she wants to “guide” Ritsuka into development and eventually take her down, secretly motivating for them to abstain from her, even if she still nonetheless desires to be the one to corrupt them in the end.

I’ve got a big handful of other thoughts on this event (especially as a huge Kama fan), but that’s all I’ll touch on here, since I really wanted to share at least my interpretation of the ending scene and what it meant to both Kama and Kiara. I also really want to discuss this with others, so please feel free to add on! If you don’t agree with any of this, that’s fine too, but I’d still love to hear people’s thoughts nonetheless.

[whitetrashjj]

“I love Pope for the most part but he is a very flawed character- which I think needs to be acknowledged by a lot more by his fans. I go back and forth on him because of these things but it’s also very evident to see when people hate on Pope because of his genuine character flaws and the people who just have internalised racism.”

what flaws? you keep saying pope has flaws, pope stans see through his flaws, the things he’s done wrong… what flaws? can you please list them for us? i’m not even trying to be rude i’m genuinely confused

Okay so I know you’ve been eagerly waiting on the edge of your seat to hear my thoughts on this so I’ve finally got to it. But thank you so for your patience and realising that I don’t actually owe you a response.

Before we start let me state once again, as you’ll chose to ignore this. I don’t hate Pope, I loved him for the first half of the series, that’s the Pope that I like to think of, that’s the Pope that I write in my fics. Then he did some stuff that did not sit right with me, I haven’t completely written him off but I do think that how he’s written in s2 will have a big impact on my opinion.

I’m gonna try and take this in chronological order. So well start with 2x7. This isn’t a big one for me but just something about it didn’t feel right.

So we all know JJ stealing that money wasn’t a great choice. I really wish the rest of the pogues tried to actually understand is reasons rather than jump down his throat and assume he was just being impulsive JJ. So when JJ appealed to Pope about it, points out that JJ had just confessed to a felony, took a beating and now owes $30, 000 and possibly could face time served, and is basically just saying I did that for you can you just try and be on my side here. Pope just goes ‘I’m gonna pay you back. I didn’t ask you to do that’ which I just did not vibe with. It felt like saying ‘well you chose to do that so if I pay back the money I don’t owe you anything’. It completely ignores all the other massive effects it’s had on his life and as if Pope eventually being able to pay JJ back doesn’t eliminate the fact that he owes that money now.

No, it’s not gonna make me hate Pope forever but I just didn’t like that reaction.

So then we have ep 8 and Kie and Pope’s fight on the HMS Pogue. The ‘why is it always about John B?’ which is just ridiculous. Why is it about John B? Because he’s just stormed off in a rage with a gun to confront his father's murderer? Like he could be either getting murdered himself or doing some murdering and while I understand Pope is under a lot of pressure about his scholarship those two situations just aren’t comparable. He also then goes on to call her a shitty friend that only cares about John B and wouldn’t care about him or JJ if they were in that situation but then justifies that by bringing up a situation where she wasn’t there for John B. Which makes no sense? It essentially proves that she’s in a different place now than she was then, in which she wasn’t there for John B - a reason why she is so active in wanting to be there for him now - so the fact that she is now proves that her actions then don’t speak to who she is now post-kook year.

That bring us to what really annoyed me about that fight. Pope throwing Kie’s kook year back in her face simply cause he was jealous and mad that Kie wasn’t giving him the same attention she was giving JB. Like, at a really low point she confided in Pope how bad the Kook Academy was for her, told him that she was suicidal and that Sarah was her only beacon of hope only to drop her without question and turning her into the pariah of the school. And what does he do, uses it to antagise her because he’s not happy. I don’t love that Kie pushed him her but damn can you blame her? She told her friend something she had struggled with alone for so long and he just uses it against her like that. I don’t understand how you can be that cruel to someone you supposedly love. 

Ah, yes the love confession scene. Now even if we ignore how bad the timing was - and act like being high was a justifiable excuse. Let’s talk about the fact that he wouldn’t take no for an answer. I’ve seen Kie get so much hate for how harsh she was but she tried to let him down easy but he just kept pushing and pushing. Insisting that her reasons weren’t good enough as if she needed a reason other than she just doesn’t see him that way.

Now, of course Pope is allowed to be upset by this, but there is a difference between being upset and the friendzone incel nice guys finish last bullshit that Pope pulled. The acting rude and cold and distant towards her like she wronged him. He was angry at her for not feeling the same way and acted like it was her fault and her problem. The revving of the bike scene will never not make my blood boil, she’s trying to approach him as a friend, talk to him and work things out. He could of told her that he needs some time, that he was upset and hurt but no he shows a complete lack of respect for her and literally silences her. It makes me think about that post that goes ‘men like to talk about how much it sucks to be friendzoned. But what about the hurt of thinking you had a friend only to find out they were only nice to you cause they wanted to fuck you.’ It’s understandable he would be upset but he dealt with that situation so poorly - almost in the way that a flawed character would. 

And then to end it all - now this isn’t Pope’s fault I know - our straight white men in the writers room reward him for treating Kie like that with getting the girl. I don’t know a single girl that would change her mind because of that. It was gross and I hated every second of it. 

I don’t hate Pope, but those we’re shitty things. And yes even if he had his reasons, even if he got mad and acted irrationally, they are still shitty things and that’s okay. He’s a flawed character who acted wrong in a situation, because he’s not perfect - and admitting that doesn’t mean you can’t still love him with your whole heart. 

[hello-nichya-here]

In regards to The Foursome: I understand Tyzula/Mailee/Zucest/Ty Luko/Maiko but where is the textual, subtextual, or WoG support for Maizula? It seems like Mai only has had eyes for Zuko and there is barest of subtextual support for Mailee. Unless you have the HC that Mai, Azula, and Ty Lee experimented with each either as kids at school or during their EK trip but that is just a HC. And the comics explicitly have Mai view Azula as nothing more than a born psycho. So how does Maizula work?

First things first: while did comics did get the fear and resentment thing right, they completely retconed the fact that Mai and Ty Lee did genuinely like Azula - Ty Lee was legitimately happy to see her at first, and Mai willingly joined Azula's chase after Zuko and the Avatar. Due to a ton of these retcons in literally in every character's story and relationships, I don't consider the comics canon (plus, they're poorly written).

Now, this may actually surprise you, but I believe there's more evidence for Maizula than for Mailee. My ranking of the ships with more "evidence" to base it goes like this:

1 - Maiko, Zucest and Tyzula (the incestuous subtext and lesbian subtext were so fucking strong these pairings compared to a canon one. Goddamn)

2 - Maizula (which I'll explain below)

3 - Mailee (cute little moments, and Mai's face when Ty Lee saved her from Azula still gives me the chills)

4 - Ty Luko (we literally only saw them interacting ONCE and I'm still salty about it)

I think the main reason why people miss the subtext for Maizula, is that they're often comparing it to their relationships with Ty Lee - which is a mistake, because the main appeal of these three characters relationships with each other (platonic and otherwise) is how distinct, yet still simmilar their personalities are and the way their key differences and simmilarities make those relationships unique. You cannot expect Mai and Azula to react to each other the way they react to Ty Lee, because the way they interact, comunicate, and relate to each other couldn't be more different. The same goes for their distinct, weird bonds with Zuko.

The main appeal of Maizula (to me at least) is how unusually frank they are with each other. Zuko's motto is literally "Azula always lies", and while Ty Lee does care for Azula and think highly of her, more often than not she only compliments Azula to stay on her good side - it's self-preservation, with hints of true admiration.

Meanwhile, Mai takes a no-bullshit approach to life. She rarely puts on an act, which means Azula rarely has to put on an act around her. The first thing Mai says to her when they're reunited in Omashu is "Please say you're here to kill me" - she just fucking saw the girl, her princess, and is already going "I'm bored, and you like violence. Do me a favor and put me out of my misery". Sure, it's a funny joke and they're friends, but it isn't really all the wise to talk to royalty like that. But Azula just laughs and says it's good to see her.

A few episodes later, on The Drill, Mai full on abandons the mission and says Azula can shoot all the lightining she wants at her. Again, quite a bold thing to do, and once more there are no consequences for it. In The Headband, Azula interupts Mai's moment with Zuko with an obvious lie, and Mai plays along... for one second before giving Azula an angry glare. And in The Beach, Mai literally screams at Azula to leave her alone. There are not many people who would have gotten away with doing that to Azula, and it's surprising that, once again, Mai wasn't punished for it at all.

Even the way she parts ways with Azula is different than the way Azula lost everyone else around her. Ursa was berated her then disappeared suddenly leaving Azula with a bunch of unanswered questions about how her mother truly felt about her; Zuko left without a word on the day of the eclipse; Ty Lee hit her from behind and immediately tried to flee with their (former) friend; Ozai manipulated her and left her in the palace with a meaningless title. Mai was the only one who looked Azula right in the face, with no fear or contempt, and gave her a piece of her mind.

There's also the fact that, despite the clear power inbalance in their dynamic, Azula did respect some of Mai's boundaries. When they are reunited, she simply says it's good to see her puts her hands on her shoulders before backing off, not going straight for a hug like Ty Lee did. Mai also went willingly on the chase after Zuko and the Avatar, unlike their bubbly friend. Zuko was constantly frustrated that Mai didn't reciprocate some of his romantic advances and that she wasn't all that emotional. Azula never expected Mai to act like Ty Lee and keep repeating all the empty flattery she knew the princess would like to hear - in fact, she liked Mai's personality.

Which is brings us to the final point of why I believe there is a real potential for Maizula: how simmilar they are to each other. They were both put under a lot of pressure as kids and expected to be nothing more than the perfect daughters, and Azula even recognizes and acknowledges Mai's struggles with her family at The Beach (though she does it in an unhealthy way). They're both sarcastic, cynical, powerful, surpress their own emotions, crave exciment and genuine affection, don't have any time to waste, and their sass and quick wit is unbelievable. All of that makes their friendship feel real, and the intensity of all the emotions they bring out in each other (both positive and negative) makes a possible romantic interest seem more likely.

[jason-pipers]

the jason/piper breakup and jason’s subsequent death

it is a long and angry post so you have been warned 

 I’m really sick of seeing Jason Grace/Piper McLean slander in their own tag, and I’m really, really sick of seeing people justify their breakup/his death as good writing. 

As I’ve been studying literature and text for the past four years at Uni- I can say with absolute confidence that The Burning Maze utilizing Jason and Piper was horrible. Like a bag of shit mixed together then smeared on paper and published kind of horrible. Actually, you don’t even really need a degree to be able to point out the very basic absurdity of them appearing in TBM. So even though I have a paper due on a completely unrelated topic and a lot of homework, I naturally decided this was a much better thing to write about: 

 Maybe in another world, Rick’s ghostwriters will be better at writing his books. The reason why the Jason/Piper breakup was extremely confusing and done very poorly in the sense of their character arcs was that there was no buildup to the breakup. In fact, I think these two got together off-screen and broke up off-screen. Yet, I’m sure Riordan sat at his desk thinking “now why don’t people just like Jason and Piper?? I give them so much!” Actually, you gave them nothing. It’s also considerably easy to disguise their breakup as logical when it isn’t. Now, people will argue that the basic foundation of the relationship was poorly made because of Hera’s meddling and that’s why they broke up. This is a lazy way to think about it because it’s obvious you don’t care about the characters so you should just say that and go. Hera’s meddling (putting false memories of Jason in Piper’s head and wiping Jason’s brain) really only gave Piper a vague notion of Jason (based on real attributes the Mist pulls) and also gave PERCY and Jason multiple relationships after the switcheroo. But Piper actually meets Jason and then has a subsequent breakdown that maybe he’s not her boyfriend. However, once she gets to know the real Jason (very accurate to the one she knew in her memories because Aphrodite said she could sense real possibilities hinting at their romance), she is still developing romantic feelings for him. It’s implied that the reason why Piper is falling so fast is because the memories she has of Jason are based on the real Jason. It’s easy to establish that Piper has real romantic feelings for Jason, not the made up Jason because the majority of TLH is them getting to know each other. If she felt like there was some confusion on her part about developing feelings for him because of Hera switching Percy and Jason- why did it not come up EVER? The months where Jason and Piper started dating. How about that long ass quest on the Argo? It could have been a valid plot line but it never came up. If it had come up near the end of the series or maybe even if it was a small subplot in the series, it would make the breakup logical, at least narratively. But no, we end Blood of Olympus with Jason and Piper coming full circle with the moment in the stars. Flash forward three years later to TBM where everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about Piper and Jason are thrown into the trash. They’re broken up due to the false memories and overall I guess it’s implied Piper doesn’t have feelings for him anymore or something? Or the trauma of being in something like that prophecy was a lot for her to handle and she needed some time to figure things out? Yeah of course! Just like when she will go through another trauma (Jason dying for her) and start dating someone new right after. This would be so much easier to read and digest if these things are shown- in their own series and maybe not as a side thing to Apollo’s series. Reading it in TOA was completely out of left field. I know SO MANY PEOPLE were like that makes so much sense! Good for you Piper! But I was like girl, who are you? I feel like I have not spent any time with you and none of what you’re saying is connecting to anything you were like before. Which leads me to believe people just did not like Piper in HOO but just say that and go. HOO Piper is not TBM/TOA Piper. RR doesn’t know how to characterize his own goddamn characters. Furthermore, everything in canon up until TBM implies and directly states that Jason and Piper are endgame. It’s not to say they didn’t have problems that were resolved or that the way they got together was conventional. There was not even a smidge bit of reluctance to admit they were canon endgame- I think RR even had Cupid involved. There was no prediction or even hint of what would happen in TBM in HOO, which is a very big narrative problem. Jason, always isolated by loved ones and quite frankly always shouldering way more than a human can handle dies exactly the way he suffers. There is no growth or even a small lovely moment where we can see Jason. 

This brings me to the most unnecessary death I’ve ever read in my life. I know RR’s ego hurt from the complaints about Jason/Piper/Frank/Hazel/Leo (basically a non-Percabeth character) being underdeveloped. I know his ego was fucked when he “killed” Leo but didn’t really kill Leo so everyone was like what the fuck. I know he wanted to prove he is a good writer but like any other bad writer, he decided to jump the shark. And I know he wanted Jason and Piper to be more likable but the fandom really wanted a Leo-esque character. The breakup really happened because he wanted to demonstrate to critics that he could live with couples not being endgame and knew Jasiper was relatively unpopular compared to Percabeth/Caleo/etc. He wasn’t thinking in terms of ‘does this fit what I’ve created’ but in terms of ‘people might be like oh shit this is violent and they’re finally gone!’. I don’t know what idiotic thought process made him reach the point of killing one of them but he obviously got there. See, there is no difference between Jason or Piper dying in TBM. It could’ve easily been Piper who was impaled by Caligula and reminded Apollo “what it’s like to be human”. They were made *that* insignificant in TBM. Pretty much fucking interchangeable. IN DEATH. It also could’ve been anybody else in the world. It could’ve been that cheerleader from The Battle of the Labyrinth. It could’ve been Piper’s dad. It could have been Sally Jackson. Not a single part of Jason’s death was really related to Jason or his growth. Jason was the main/lead from HOO and if he was destined to die (which he wasn’t because RR doesn’t think anything through anymore), he should have died in his own series. That would make his sacrifice more compelling and important, but dying in TOA is just a big fuck you to his character. I think the only equivalent I can think of is if HOO had solely been Jason’s series but RR pulled up Percy to simply kill him and then just kept writing. What the fuck does TOA have anything to do with Jason or Piper? Or even Leo? I usually love when characters make cameo appearances to remind us of the past we loved them in. Kind of like when Lynda Carter appeared as Asteria in WW1984. Conversely, involving them in the plot and then using them as a plot device for the main character- AKA USING YOUR MAIN CHARACTER AS A PLOT DEVICE FOR ANOTHER MAIN CHARACTER IN A SEPARATE SERIES- is not only dumb but it truly makes everything else you’ve written for the first main character devoid of any real significance. Jason was never a fully fleshed-out character, the way he deserved to be written, because RR couldn’t world build as well as he thought and that ‘every single character gets a POV’ didn’t do the legendary thing he thought it did. However, anything that mattered about Jason was pretty much killed in TBM because he was easily killed by a villain that was not even remotely interested in Jason or aware of his existence. What does FUCK does Caligula mean to Jason? Nothing. Did the final battle create a full circle for Jason other than the line “remember?” which is not really related to his amnesia- no. His character arc was about an identity crisis- being pushed and pulled in two directions. Jason barely means anything to Apollo so RR using Jason as a convenient kill to send home a message is also shitty for Apollo. Lead hero characters can die- they sometimes just have to. Marissa Cooper’s death in the OC narratively makes sense due to the nature of the character being a damsel in distress from the very beginning- a foil to her counterpart, Ryan Atwood. But in this case, RR knew he had to shock people to keep getting $$$. I never got the impression RR cared about Jason or Piper, especially since he was incredibly disrespectful and lazy when writing about Piper. (For that- I can link really detailed posts explaining his racism). The truth is Riordan cannot live without putting his characters in relationships- Frazel, Caleo, Tyson/Ella (?), Hedge/Mellie- but he wanted to prove that he could which is why Jasiper broke up.

Piper’s girlfriend in TON- I didn’t read TON for the reasons above and I don’t think I’ll ever read a Riordan book again: I did find out that Piper gets a GF in TON which at first I thought was incredibly neat but then later became angry when I learned it was only months after Jason’s death? I have always wanted Piper to explore her sexuality but RR has this case of never giving important things the development it deserves. He’s incredibly messy and inconsistent when he creates lgbtqia+ characters, usually only including them so he can get credit for including them. He’s never actually explored Piper’s sexuality fully in the series, but he threw her in yet another relationship we didn’t get to read about right after she was almost beaten to death and then witnessed the murder of her ex-boyfriend. If you think that is representation, please rethink that. We don’t get to hear her talk about anything at all, except maybe mentioning the girl’s name. A subtle hint. Just representation is not good representation and it is right that we demand better representation. Don’t settle for less. For fuck’s sake, Riverdale is only really good at queerbaiting but they get so much praise. (Do they? At this point I can’t tell). If we wanted to explore Piper’s sexuality, it could have been done while she was with Jason or even broken up with him in her own series- why didn’t RR explore the nature of being lgbtqia+ in an Indigenous family? He had the chance to demonstrate an awareness of intersectionality through Piper but he fucked up. He had so much to write about. So, people who are yelling happily about that Piper appearance in TON-??? 

 This was long and frustrating to write. But I had feelings.

[dellinah]

With the new ep coming soon, have a quick Helluva Boss review by me

This is not my opinion these are hard facts and I don't accept anything else ty (obvious joke is obvious)

Pilot:

Works well enough as a pilot, but aged poorly when compared to the actual episodes. The cutaway gag style reminds me of Family Guy, which isn't a good thing but works ok enough to show off their personalities in a quick way. However, I think they were still very surface level (especially compared to their recent development in the episodes). Loona was especially unlikeable in the pilot (other than one scene with the smile) and they seem to have only one trait explored which is their main personality trait, it makes them a bit too cartoony. The writing was a bit sloppy with the cutaway of them killing the wrong person suddenly becoming the main plot. But as a pilot, it works fine and the scenes with Moxxie and Blitzo were really funny. Millie and Loona don't really get the chance to suck you in and are kinda just there, but that's fair as a pilot only has so much time to show so much. I'm just glad the show turned out to be MUCH better than this made me think it would be. I was scared they'd rely too much on cutaways and never have actual plots, but the episodes are almost nothing like the pilot. And since that's a good thing... yeah, the pilot is fine, but I'm glad the show is different from it

5/10

Episode 1:

It does a good job at showing off the personalities that were outlined in the pilot (Moxxie is insecure and angry, Blitzo is careless, Loona is mean, Millie is energetic), but other than Moxxie, I think they could have done more by using smart dialog to define and show their interactions. They're still very 'one-trait'. Also goes a bit deeper into how the imps work which was cool to learn. I really like the jokes in this one! The bits of lore they give us was also appreciated. However, I think it's the less memorable of the episodes so far. It's a good average episode: they do what they're meant to, there are good jokes, but other than Moxxie's development, nothing about this episode will stick with you - there's not much to it other than the basic plot. So much so that this is the one people talk about the least in my experience. The character interactions are a bit deeper, but again, nothing stands out about it and we don't learn that much about them. It probably aged poorly as well, it was much better when it was the only ep but now it doesn't reach the standards set by the other eps. Good average ep, but you won't think much about it once it's done

6/10

Episode 2

This to me is where the show truly shines. Not only was it beautifully animated, it has everything that makes Helluva Boss great: good characters trying to survive each other in a shit yet interesting environment. Stolas and Octavia steal the show and it does a full 180 on Stolas, turning him from a horny slut to a caring dad that is trying his best (albeit, still horny). Octavia is a beautifully written character, as they manage to make a teen emo daughter that isn't annoying or obnoxious, but even make us feel for her as the family falls apart in a believable way. All the characteds (other than Loona) FINALLY get the deeper personality exploration that I think lacked in the previous episodes. The interactions they have with each other do a great job at a 'show, don't tell' and you actually start liking them more after this one as they get more of a personality. Learning about Blitzo's past and the clown character are also great plot points. This episode is pretty much flawless and everything about it is great: the interactions are deep and well written, the personalities shine, the plot is interesting, you feel for the characters, it's funny, it makes you feel and all the characters are incredibly likeable - with no one being in the wrong and just making us see different perspectives from layered characters. I cannot praise it enough so just know it's perfect. The only bad thing about this ep is that it sets such a high stardand other eps might look worse in comparision. And if that's the only bad thing you have to say about an ep, then it's pretty damn good

10000/10

Episode 3

Another amazing episode. While not as heartfelt as Episode 2, it's still very charming and memorable with GREAT character moments. Millie gets some much needed screen time that finally shows another side of her as a caring yet badass wife. Drunk Moxxie was especially funny and props to the va for the golden delivery of his lines (for real, the sounds he makes are amazing. And who could forget the I aM nOt A pOsSuM line. Iconic). Loona finally gets an episode focused on her, so now all 4 main characters have gotten better. The episode has many good points, but the interactions between Loona and Blitzo as their relationship gets more defined and sets up more mysteries about their past are GREAT. Again, amazing 'Show, don't tell' stuff that makes you feel for dad and daughter that struggle together to love each other as such. They also managed to portray a teen crush and a protective dad without making them annoying or obnoxious. A lot of cute and angsty, memorable moments between them as well as great Loona development as she becomes more vulnerable. It almost outshines the main plot of Blitzo's ex, but she's a good character and their banter ties up with the blitzo/loona plot so you never forget what is going on and it all comes together nicely at the end. Beautiful father-daughter angst and a great portray at the struggles they face with adoption. Probs the funniest ep to date. Verosika is another great character and I hope she shows up again. Honestly, no major complaints

10/10

Here's to hoping for another great ep!

[gothmedia]

Movie Review: My Summer as a Goth

”If you don’t care what people think, why did you just ask me what I thought?” Overview and Plot My Summer as a Goth is a crowd funded movie directed by Tara Johnson-Medinger. It stars Joey, a morose teen who constantly talks about her dead dad and gets angry when other people talk about her dead dad. Since her mother is a prolific author set to do a book tour, Joey is shipped about 45 minutes out of town to her grandparents' house for the summer. There she becomes interested in the neighbor boy, an even more sullen teen called Victor. Victor notices Joey's interest and whisks her away into the world of goth summer romance. In terms of production, very nice looking film. Professional. I liked that the beginning of the movie looked very washed-out and reflected the mood well, getting warmer as the summer went on. I also loved the texting graphics. The movie was well-paced and a good length, however the passage of time in the movie was a bit odd. VERY soon after the movie says summer starts it’s the Fourth of July, then again only a short time later everyone’s talking about how the summer is almost over. Joey even gets mad at her mother in one instance for not being available in time, but it seems like the mother responded back in about a day while Joey makes it out that it took weeks. The in-movie passage of time was very confusing for me. Most of the characters were well-written with some hiccups mostly on the grandparent’s and Antonio’s end. Costume design was on-point. Sound was fine and the music choices throughout were wonderful. Overall, the film had really good production value.

Moving into spoiler territory, Joey’s grandparents are a ride as they swing from giving Joey hundreds of dollars and baking her pot brownies to telling at her she can’t stay out late and that she needs an exorcism. Antonio, a punk, starts the movie off by getting into a fist fight with Victor, but later becomes a loveable member of the cast. We meet Cob and Pen, the “goth swan couple”. They’re Victor’s friends and a breath of fresh air; despite having morose interests they’re very bubbly and outgoing. I wish more of the movie had them in it. They along with Victor decide to give Joey a makeover and invite her to a few different events over the summer including a silent disco in a graveyard, a party at Pandora’s house, and a concert. They also go on a camping trip with Joey, her grandparents, and one of Joey’s high school friends. Eventually, Joey gets annoyed with Victor’s constant toxic attitude and finds out he’s cheating on her. Everything’s fine in the end as the summer comes to a close and she goes back to school with Antonio as her new boyfriend and her new, darker look.

Joey the babybat has daddy issues. In the beginning Joey feels acts catty and defensive about everything. Don’t worry, she never really grows out of that. Pretty much everything about her revolves around either the fact that her father is dead or her relationship with Victor. She does have an art hobby that’s shown throughout the movie but she seems almost embarrassed by it? It’s never actually brought up by any characters and no one ever looks through her sketchbook or shows interest in it. Which I found really odd because a lot of the goths I know in real life tend to be pretty creative and would love it? Anyway, she falls head-first into goth because of a boy. I know that’s how some people get into the subculture, but it kind-of sours the movie because it seems like she also only stays in the subculture because of the boy. In the beginning she mentions liking the music and how it helps her express how she feels inside, but other than Victor, we really don’t get to see how she thinks about the subculture. She’s friends with Cob and Pen because they’re Victor’s friends. She goes to events because Victor goes. She dresses up because Victor wants her to. But once Victor is out of the picture, why does she stay? Other than the passing mention of music at the beginning, she really has no interest in the goth scene. She’s never shown engaging with the scene on her own terms, and I find that a little disappointing. When I was a babybat I was reading goth blogs like Stripy Tights and Dark Delights, I was trying to get my hands on back issues of Gothic Beauty, I was watching a ton of different youtubers talk about the scene and I just wanted more. There’s none of that with Joey save for a short scene where she watches tutorials on how to do her hair and make-up. (Which, admittedly was really cute.) I didn’t understand WHY Joey stays a goth at the end of the movie and I think it’s because the movie really didn’t portray the positive aspects of the subculture as much. Also, Joey needs to work on her attitude problem. She mentions her dead dad quite a bit at the beginning and gets upset when other people mention it back to her. At the end of the film she calls her mom over heartbreak and when her mom tries to talk about it with her, she acts sarcastic and shuts her mother out, getting mad that she reached out at the wrong time. I’m unsure if it was just Joey going back to her old coping strategies or if she was in the right because I have no idea how much time had passed since the phone call. I’ll never know. Either way, she does dump Victor which is nice and she reconciles with her mother as well. I do like that she feels more comfortable with herself at the end of the movie and begins doing things on her own terms, even if others don’t “get it”. Victor is a VERY well-written, manipulative dick.  Storytime! So, there weren’t many goths at my college and we never really had any classes together, but I remember seeing this one kid walking across the street to the art buildings with a flowing black velvet cape over their backpack, an unlaced black poet shirt, platinum white hair in a side-hawk, knee-high black leather boots and a TON of silver jewelry. Honestly, they would have looked so cool if their harem pants weren’t made of chiffon and completely see-through. (Batman boxers!) Seeing Victor for the first time immediately reminded me of that. Over the top, charming, charismatic and a bit silly. I liked him at first. His wit is dry and in the beginning he didn’t take himself of the subculture TOO seriously, making jokes about vampires. I liked that he seemed to be having fun chatting about music and dressing up Joey. And then there came the lipstick. Honestly, the lipstick was used absolutely perfectly to show how the relationship is souring and how manipulative Victor really is. It really is a gradual showing of how things are going south in their relationship and how Victor isn’t as much as a downcast victim as he puts on. Later on in the movie he starts reminding me of that Bruiser sketch where there’s two goths and one of them is just badgering the other one that he can’t take his sweater off in the summer or join in on seasports because it’s “not goth”. He begins chastising Joey for not looking perfect at all times or not knowing things about the subculture despite the fact that he just dresses her up and brings her to parties instead of actually trying to integrate her to the local scene or teaching her about music or history. Eventually he goes back to hooking up with Pandora, something he apparently does frequently because Joey is not the first person he’s cheated on and literally everyone in town warns Joey about it. Victor clearly has a massively inflated ego and you love to hate him in the end. There are definitely his type in goth scenes around the world and I can see how he stays in good graces with the other asshole friends he has. Some people just really like being elitists. The one thing I can’t figure out, though, is why Pen and Cob are friends with him. They’re so nice compared. A punk by jacket only and why casual homophobia makes me salty. Antonio is... hoo boy, is he a thing. First introduced starting a fight with Victor you think, "Ah, this is the antagonist of the movie. I wonder why they made the punk an asshole? Usually punks are okay with goths." Luckily for us, he apologizes for the outburst and becomes a friend of the main cast. We learn he likes canasta and plays guitar. Oddly, he doesn't seem to have any punk patches or pins on his jacket and never actually mentions punk music. He does, however, mention goth music and he seems familiar with the other goths in town going to their events, so it seems he's on good standing with them despite bullying the goths at the beginning of the film. Seeing as goths would rather pretend to be haughty vampires than get their tail coats in a twist, Antonio makes for a heroic figure in the movie when Joey is in trouble. In my notes I wrote, "Ten bucks says punk kid is gonna save her,” and lo and behold, Antonio comes out of nowhere to save Joey from some bullies. I do like that he uses his rough appearance to his advantage to help people and do the right thing. That pretty accurately describes every punk I’ve ever met. They look tough as nails, but you’ll only see that side of them if you absolutely deserve to.

It's also revealed that Antonio is not straight as he's seen making out with some guy at a concert, mentions having had a previous relationship with Victor, and is being made fun of for being gay in the end. He also ends the film by being Joey's boyfriend. Pardon, what? I'm kind-of tired of this heteronormative nonsense where movies have to end with all main characters (Sans the villain, of course.) end up in a happy straight relationship. Joey's non-goth friend who's in the movie for a very short amount of time also ends up with a goth boyfriend because happily-ever-after and all that. It probably wouldn't have sat as poorly with me if they didn't make fun of Antonio for "looking gay" which in context makes no sense since he's pretty gender conforming compared to the goth men in the film. It also didn’t help that there were comments about lesbians at the beginning of the movie. At one point Joey's grandparents suggest she might like girls and Joey rebukes it with vitriol saying her grandparents are "too cool". The same kind of vitriol you hear when a straight person tells you they could never imagine being gay, that's disgusting. Oh, but they support your "choices", hm? I just wish Antonio’s character was a bit more fleshed out and he didn’t end up being back-up male love interest that’s only there to save female lead from bad guys and heartbreak.  First rule of Goth Music is you don’t talk about Goth Music? The movie introduces goth along with music. The music in the film is honestly really good and a good portrayal of what goths actually listen to. Joey mentions she likes the music near the beginning and she goes to events such as a silent disco, a party, and a concert. Despite music obviously being a major source of community in the movie, no one actually talks about it other than that one instance of Joey mentioning she likes it. No one suggests bands to her or actually goes to the parties or concerts to do anything other than make out. The silent disco is the only real instance of them listening and dancing to the music and it feels like it's over in a flash. Though, the corny goth dance moves in that scene kind-of make up for it. At one point Antonio pulls out a guitar and asks if Joey wants him to play “Bela Lugosi’s Dead”. She mentions she’s never heard of it which leads Antonio to ask if she’s new to the scene. At another point in the party, Joey asks someone if they like Marylin Manson. While this is an obvious faux pas to anyone actually in the goth scene, no one actually engages with her in conversation about it. How was Joey supposed to know his music isn’t goth? Wasn’t she listening to goth music earlier at the silent disco? Or the music she said sounded pretty from Victor’s room when they met? How did she get this far liking these bands but not noticing that they sound nothing like Marylin Manson and did she never look them up on her own to listen to them later? She obviously likes them, so it really surprises me that she only got in the goth scene for a guy.

Robert Smith NEVER has smeared lipstick. /s The emphasis on appearance is a little annoying throughout the movie, but I guess it had to be. It fits Victor's personality to change Joey's personal style to match his, and the makeover scene was fun, but I wish there would have been more diversity in the cast of townie goths who attend the parties, concerts, and discos. I counted one person with blonde hair and a small handful of older goths. I didn't notice any non-white goths and unfortunately the movie placed quite the emphasis on pale skin and trying to avoid tanning. I know people like the white face along with dark make-up and looking vamp-ish, but when all your characters are in white greasepaint and there's no PoC to be seen in goth garb it sends a message that only white people can be goth and that's really something we need to kill in the subculture. I did, however, like the wardrobe choices. I liked that Joey got her wardrobe from a thrift store and that she dyed a top she already owned. She looked up tutorials on how to do her hair and make-up and it never looked perfect. That's a good thing. Baby Bats won't know how to do a bats nest hairstyle, they won't know to blend foundation to the neck, and they won't have a perfect eyeliner wing. No one mentioned alt-brand name clothing and no one had a perfectly couture outfit that media likes to sell as a stereotypical goth teenager. The goths actually looked like goths. Their wardrobes were things you'd actually see in a club and we get to see that they wear a plain black tank top and shorts when milling about the house, only breaking out the corsets and top hats for big events. The older goths were more well put together and that makes sense because they've been in the subculture longer and have had time to figure out what they like and what looks good on them. The costuming department did a really great job with this. Ah, but as a side note about wardrobe, who donates brand new, tall Docs to a thrift store??? You can’t sit with us. And sadly, the worst part of Goth in the movie- community. What was that, film? Other than the three main goths, we only get to see other goths at large events and they all seem a bit catty? You have the silent disco, which was cute but no one really spoke to or interacted with each other. Pen and Cob are kind-of doing their own thing throughout no matter who they’re with. We also have the house party and the concert. The other goths there are.... pretty much just there to be judgy because Joey’s new? The first time I went to a club in a new city and didn’t know anyone some random person grabbed my hands and dragged me to the dancefloor. It was fun! People would ask the DJ what he was spinning and they weren’t shamed for not knowing. If someone’s jacket ripped, five people would come out of the woodwork with a safety pin and afterwards we’d all pile into Denny’s and laugh and joke and talk about nothing. I’m not saying there’s no “Gothier-than-Thou” types, believe me I’ve met more than a few, but in a movie that’s trying to portray someone WANTING to become a goth, why not portray the subculture as more inviting? Also, with the comments from Victor and a few other remarks, it seems like alcohol is needed to blend into the goth scene, and that definitely isn’t the case. Sure, a lot of us love absinth or a snakebite in black, but it’s not needed to fit in with the cool kids at the club. The community really is my favorite thing about this subculture and I feel it was a disservice that most goths were showcased as uninviting. I can understand Joey not being wanted at the party initially as she wasn’t invited in the first place and perhaps the eldergoths in the room didn’t want to have to have an impromptu etiquette and history lesson with a babybat when they’re supposed to be relaxing, but the point of the movie was to showcase why Joey wants to be a goth. She never makes friends outside of Victor’s immediate group and never tries to find community or information about the scene online or anything. I guess that is how babybats do act a lot of the time, but again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the point of the movie is showing why someone would WANT to be a goth.  Final Thoughts. The goth scene in the movie looked like a regular goth scene. I liked the emphasis on thrifting and DIY and that newcomers don’t come out of the womb knowing the lyrics to the entirety of Floodland. The music was phenomenal. I liked that the music featured was goth music, but not the main five bands that everyone already knows. I liked that the events attended were focused mainly around music. I liked seeing actual goth dance moves on screen. I liked that people in the movie did use terminology found in the subculture and made jokes about the subculture that insiders would actually make. I liked that Pen and Cob were wonderfully peppy despite their dark interests, I liked that we got punk-goth solidarity. I liked that it did remind me a bit of my babybat years and got me missing clubs and events. I miss all my friends... I really do...

I was put off by the passage of time in the movie, Joey’s cattiness with anyone who tries to help her, the light and casual homophobia sprinkled in, and the negative-leaning portrayal of the goth community. Other than that, though, I did think it was a good movie with a satisfying ending and I would really suggest people check it out. It’s probably the most accurate portrayal of goths in any media, really, and it’s worth a watch. At the very least, go listen to the soundtrack on BandCamp. 

[stranger-who-writes-fiction]

Alright HERE WE GO...SOME PRESS!

By which I mean, Tom King was on ComicPop discussing Supergirl! So we have CONTEXT AND BACKGROUND INFO! WOO!

Gonna get into it below, but my recommendation, as always: the best way to have an informed opinion is to get the info firsthand, so don’t just take my word for it! Go forth! Watch the thing! (Language advisory, though. There is some swearing.)

Okay. With that out of the way, LET’S GO!

Gonna lead off with a summary of the Supergirl bits, as they discuss a variety of things, from Strange Adventures to Batman/Catwoman to the canned New Gods project:

How Tom King came to be the writer of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow:

King’s longtime editor, Jaime Rich, was moved from the Bat books to the Super books. 

King, historically, likes to take on characters that ‘need help.’ He cites the example of Kirby who, upon coming to DC, asked what their lowest-selling title was, which is how he ended up on Jimmy Olsen.

So, when King asks which character needs help, Rich, to King: Supergirl. We have trouble selling that book.

King, describing Supergirl: ‘She’s singular in a way Mr. Miracle and Vision are not.’ Says that if you ask any four year old who Supergirl is, they know.

Editors asked him, ‘what’s your take? what are you gonna do with her?’

King then discusses the difference between his approach to Bat people vs. Super people.

Bat people: It’s a deconstruction approach. King brings up Kite Man from his Batman run. You tear the character down and build them back up, a la Dark Knight Returns

Super people: It’s not about deconstruction. Let them be themselves. They’re wonderful, let them be wonderful. 

But he does mention sort of stripping down the character to their purest form; he describes it as chiseling off the barnacles that have built up on the character, over the years.

Additionally, he says ‘evil doesn’t work for the Super family of characters.’

He mentions Superman: Up in the Sky. He says that there’s deep stuff in Up in the Sky, but the theme of every page is simply: Superman is awesome.

King: “I don’t want to make Kara mean or sad. I want to test her.”

The host compares ‘angry Kara’ stories to ‘evil Superman’ stories in that there are many of them, such to the point that people think Kara is relatable because she’s miserable and angry all the time. 

The host: I don’t get that.

(Same dude, same.)

King talked to Steve Orlando

They discussed the fact that Supergirl knew her planet; the people who died were her friends, family, classmates.

King summarizes Kara’s original Silver Age origin: she witnessed three huge, traumatic losses of life. First, when Krypton exploded. Then again when the Kryptonite started killing Argo residents, and then again when the meteorites destroyed the lead shielding that was keeping Argo safe. 

King: “That’s some f-ing trauma! I don’t know if you’ve read my books, but I love the trauma in characters.”

King thus describes Kara as world-weary, she swears, ‘she has seen some sh*t’.

On the new character, Ruthye:

She’s a child on a vengeance quest.

She’s named after King’s niece, Ruthie.

The pronunciation for the comic character, though, is Ruth-Eye.

One of his sons told him to add the ‘e’ on the end to make it look cooler.

Further discussion of Kara herself:

King noted that there’s sometimes a tendency to be very precious with the character.

King: ‘Let’s not be precious with Supergirl.’

This is not the story of a sixteen-year-old girl discovering the world; King says that Supergirl has been that sixteen-year-old for a long time now.

He describes it more as a move from Supergirl to Superwoman.

Art and Influences:

Talking about the red sun planet that Kara visits for her twenty-first birthday, King says he was reading a lot of Conan, which influenced the look of that portion of the story.

The impetus for getting Evely on the book: King said his editor emailed him, ‘Hey, how about Bilquis?’ King: “And I did a happy dance!”

Evely sent King a mood board of the types of things she wanted to draw; Moebius, Kirby, Wally Wood, landscapes in particular. 

Also, King says Evely is fast! She’s already halfway through the book, art-wise, and King is confident the book will release on time.

The host asked him, following up on King’s description of the book as a fantasy/western, ‘Is this True Grit?’

King: “It’s True Grit inspired. The novel AND the movie.”

If asked to give the Hollywood pitch: ‘It’s True Grit in space with Supergirl as Rooster Cogburn.’

Details about this book, as compared to Other Tom King titles:

He’s using captions on this comic--he’d thrown out captions as a storytelling device after Batman, but he found a ‘good voice’ for this comic.

King was prepared to do his usual twelve issues, but they said no one buys Supergirl comics, so it’s eight issues.

King says that Strange Adventures, Rorschach, and to a lesser extent, Batman/Catwoman, were written at a time when the world felt very apocalyptic.

He considers them to be angrier books; they are about what happens when evil is in our life, and how we deal with that.

Supergirl is the start of the ‘next generation’ of titles. 

It was written during the pandemic, but King hoped that by the time it was released, the pandemic and this very dark time in our history would be past.

He says it’s a ‘roaring 20s’ book. Not about anger, or trauma, it’s about stepping into the future and kicking a**. 

THUS CONCLUDES the Supergirl portion of the interview. 

Okay, so! Now that we’ve been objective and presented the information in a straightforward, unbiased manner...SOME THOUGHTS AND OPINONS!

The thing I was most curious about was how King got the book, so I was EXTREMELY PLEASED to get the full story.

This wasn’t like. King desperately wanting to do a Supergirl book, nor was it DC coming to King like, ‘Take Supergirl!’

Sadly, it was, ‘which book needs the most help right now? In the Superman lineup?’

He even said that Supergirl was kind of just sitting around, no one was doing anything with her/there were no plans.

(So the idea that King stole this opportunity from a woman is not true. There were NO PLANS.)

(Also it’s not based on the FS stuff, I suspect they gave the FS team some ideas from his pitch to work with, as that entire event was sort of a stop-gap/fill-in as they hurried to relaunch their line.) 

Anyways!

My initial thought that this is DC’s attempt to sell some dang Supergirl books? Not that far off! XD

Boy, I hope it works.

(Important to note: This is not news. Supergirl has historically always sold poorly. I’ve heard from actual Supergirl writers that the trades do not sell, which is a huge problem.

So King, who is KNOWN for having really good trade sales, is as solid a gamble as they could probably hope for.

He said Superman: Up in the Sky is his third best-selling trade. A WAL-MART BOOK! Is just behind Vision and Mr. Miracle!

Basically: If this doesn’t work, I don’t know that anything will.) 

As for the specifics of King’s take in particular!

Again...I really want to see it, before I pass judgement on it.

I liked the Andreyko run! And that was pretty edgy! 

Also, we have never seen a twenty-something Kara, post-Crisis. She’s always been a teenager. Thus I’m pretty willing to go along with this approach because it’s entirely new territory.

And it does seem like King is enjoying leaning into the idea of a Super who swears and kicks butt and is just a little ‘done’ with it all.

It might not mesh with my ideal Kara but again. I need to see it, before I come to any firm conclusions. 

Honestly the thing that gives me the most pause? Is that King says this book really focuses on Supergirl, not Kara, which is a more recent identity for her.

(That is somewhat true! The ‘Kara Danvers’ identity is wholly new to the show; she’s always been Linda Lee, Linda Danvers, Kara Kent, or Linda Lang, when she has a secret identity. Sometimes she doesn’t.)

(Also of note: Tom pronounces it ‘Care-a’, like the cartoon.)

(PERSONALLY I like KAHr-a, like in the show, because it creates a phonetic consistency with ‘KAHl-el’ but that’s not really relevant to a comic book. You can mentally pronounce it however you choose! XD)

So, yeah, I like the Kara Danvers part of her identity, I like earth-bound Supergirl stories, but. This isn’t that. Which I’ll need to make peace with, I guess. XD

Otherwise? Tell me a story, Mr. King. Even if I hate it, Evely will draw it beautifully, Lopes will color it masterfully, and that’s half the battle, right there. 

I’m sad King didn’t mention the Gates/Igle run! But I also understand he’s probably been looking at more recent stuff; those Gates/Igle comics are fifteen years old, oh man, oh geez, how are they that old already.

King did confirm that this is 100% in-continuity, and will affect the character going into the future.

But, IDK, given the sort of. Grim beginnings of how this book came to be, what with the reminder that the Supergirl title doesn’t sell well...who knows what the future will look like, for Kara!

I stand by my guess that Kara will graduate to ‘Superwoman’ and the Supergirl mantle will pass to someone else, maybe Ruthye? She might be a bit young, though.

Mmm. What else, what else?

Oh, this is pretty funny, IMO: when King first teased the new character, Ruthye, a bunch of SG fans rushed to google to see if there was any clue as to like. What it could mean.

And they freaked out over some obscure connection where that name appears but hey, turns out! It’s just a made up name! Based on King’s niece!

It’s funny because SG fans never learn, man. Just chill out, read the dang book, then get all upset and huff and puff and blow your twitter house down.

They briefly mentioned the Peter David run; King said the PAD stuff was great.

He’s already teased that ‘treat’ and, okay. Time for some rumination on that specifically.

I’ve read the whole PAD run. It wasn’t my cup of tea, I don’t really like the DnD, angels and demons stuff. Also, it wasn’t Kara; it’s an entirely different character who uses the name ‘Supergirl.’

Also, stuff from that run didn’t age well.

And on top of that, PAD turned out to be...kind of a jerk! As so many folks in the comic industry are.

There’s also...an extremely weird, mean-spirited vibe through the whole back half of the run; I thought maybe I was imagining it at the time, but I recently went back to “Many Happy Returns”, the final story arc of the title, and David’s introduction in the trade...it doesn’t read like a guy who was in it for the love of the character, you know?

All of which to say! I’m not excited about connections to the PAD stuff. 

But I know a lot of fans who love that run, love that version of the character.

So like. Eh! Not for me, but to the folks who enjoy it, I hope it’s cool/fun, whatever it is.

(Still think it’ll be a variant or an easter egg or something, but we’ll see.)

(Oh, hmmm! Evely *did* post a WIP of like. Some creepy skull gate that they presumably encounter...hmmmmm.)

Okay, this is crazy long, and there’s no fun art or anything to go with it--OR IS THERE?!?!?!

BOOM. From Bilquis Evely’s twitter today. (GO. FOLLOW. HER. FOR THE GOOD ART.)

(LIKE!!! I look at this and I just! Can’t! Bring myself to not be hyped as all heck! LOOK AT THIS! AND iT’S JUST THE PENCILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

God, wish that Supergirl sold better, so we could get a full year of this. HNNNNGGGGGGG.

Oh! That was another thing King discussed in detail; that 8 is way different from his usual 12, in terms of pacing and story. The beats fall at different places (obviously) so it was a bit of a challenge for him.

Actually, now that I’m thinking about it...maybe 8 will be good. Issue 10 just dropped for Strange Adventures, and wow, it has felt LONG. (I mean, the last four? Three? issues are also bi-monthly so that doesn’t help but. Still.)

(Superman: Up in the Sky was twelve issues but half the length, because it was a Wal-Mart book, so it was more like six.)

OKAY! For real, I’ve gone on long enough. XD 

SOON. Soon. June 15th, to be exact. Mark yer calendars!

[snkpolls]

SnK Chapter 132 Results

The chapter poll closed with 1,746 responses. This month’s chapter poll results were brought to you by /u/_Puppet_, /u/staraves, @momtaku​, @shifter-lines​ and /u/berthototototo

RATE THE CHAPTER 1,693 responses

When we compare “Wings of Freedom” with other chapter results we’ve recorded, it comes in 25th out of 41, making it middle of the pack as far as ratings go.  Looking at the chapter on it’s own, however, it’s very well received with nearly 86% of the fandom rating it good (30.4%) or great (55.3%).

I think it was definitely just a classic aot chapter, had that plot that always had you on the edge of your toes, had the emotional moments, the momentary funny and bittersweet moments, 10/10 chapter

It couldn’t have gone any better besides Hange’s death :/

wish Floch got a little more screen time upon death but otherwise, awesome chapter.

It felt a little bit rushed but I enjoyed it nonetheless

It was so well executed yet so sad. I'm pride of our Hanji but feel so much distress thinking it's over for her.

It was a great emotional piece, and last moment before the true final battle begins. There���s no going back.

It was a good chapter but I would’ve liked if there was more dialogue between the alliance members

The deaths were rushed and poorly written

It was good, but alliance focused chapters are still a drop in quality.

It was a solid chapter and did what it aimed to do well, though I think it had pacing issues with the two deaths.

It had a little something for everyone. Except Zeke stans.

WE’LL GET TO THE GOODBYES IN A SECOND, BUT FIRST, WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING WAS YOUR FAVORITE MOMENT?

1,695 responses

Hange’s sacrifice was the moment that people liked the most at 30%, and seeing the old Survey Corp crew was a stand-out moment for 21%. Seeing Mikasa and Annie have an almost casual conversation brought joy to 12.1%, and Floch’s determination and brutal death were appreciated most by 11.6%.

I love the final shots of the scouts being shown in the afterlife. Ty Isayama

The little moments between the characters was great because it reminds us that they're still human.

The overall scene was legendary seeing Hange dying for her comrades and even in her last seconds she thought that she sacrificed herself in order for her comrades to live. That's what she thought a great commander would look like. That's why Hange was one of the best commanders of the Scouts.

Mikasa is such a boss, love seeing her fight and hopefully we'll get more big moments from her (as opposed to Levi).

Chad, King, hero. Every moment that Floch was in is a great scene.

I loved the Colossus slipping down the mountain

My favorite part is Kiyomi refilling coal with a shovel alone :)

  WHICH OF THE GOODBYES WAS YOUR FAVORITE 1,699 responses

In a chapter filled with goodbyes it was Levi and Hange’s final moments that we found most endearing with close to 60% selecting it. “Please don’t make me choose” was a very distant second with 14.7%. Interestingly Annie and Reiner (10.4%) beat out Annie and Armin (6.5%) for third place.

i think isayama truly gave hange a great goodbye, and writing them still being cheerful and joking around made me feel so much more for their death.

It made me cry because of all the goodbyes. It reminded me of Erwin saying goodbye to the people inside the walls and people of the military. And his iconic “roar”. All of that before the battle.

Hange’s and Levi’s goodbye was very well done (that look in Levi’s eyes too, ouch), props to Isayama for breaking my heart.

The Reiner/Annie hug was all I could ask for, bless Yams.

I wanted a Levihan moment for this chapter and NOT a last levihan scene 😭

  WHO WAS THIS CHAPTER’S MVP? 1,700 responses

Who else could it be? Hange Zoe is the chapter MVP according to two-thirds of all poll respondents. Floch (13%), Engineer-kun (3.4%) and Mikasa (2.6%) all got tiny slivers of the remaining pie.

Hange was truly the hero of this chapter and i'm so happy to have been witness to their characters journey over the years!

Hange is overall my second favourite character and I looked up to them. For me Hange is the true embodiment for the Survey Corps which is for Humanity and their courage, optimism and selflessness really made me love them so much.

Hange was a flawed commander. We all know this. They made mistakes like any other human being would when faced with the stress of a leadership position. They tried desperately to fill Erwins shoes but in the end accepted that they should be themselve. But overall Hange Zoe is an incredible person and I will miss them so

Best girl Mikasa rocked it this chapter with the way she swiftly killed Floch!

While I don't agree with some of Floch's beliefs, he died trying to save his home by slowing down the Alliance. Goodnight, sweet prince!

Floch did his best he anchored all the way from the beginning to the hangar with a bullet wound and that mustve hurt like hell all that salt water coming in

Someone please send me help I can't do this my family and friends got so worried because I've changed. They be like "Bro you've changed and I be like yeah Hange died bro what do you expect I'm in genuine pain you won't understand."

  HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT HANGE’S HEROIC EXIT? 1,701 responses

Just over half of respondents loved the way Hange went out at 51.4%, and 26.5% liked it despite some quibbles. Not many of us saw it coming but it was at least emotional and a badass way to go. However, 9.6% hated it – there is an undeniable trend of every vaguely older character getting the chop. Who will poor Levi sit with in the retirement home with now?! 6.8% don’t really care about how the scene went. I suppose they’re the ones most prepared if no one in SnK gets to go to the retirement home.

A great ending to an amazing character, it's sad to see her go, but her time was up and she died fighting the creatures she loved.

I'm disturbed by how much it affected me

I loved it, but its not something i'll cry over.

I don't hate it but it did seem kinda unnecessary tbh could've been better

I STILL CAN'T STOP CRYING ABOUT IT. OPTION ONE IS GOOD BUT DOESN'T EXPRESS HOW MUCH THIS CHAPTER HURT ME.

It does break my heart,however the way and the time she do that, That was... Memorable

It happened too quickly for me to consider it perfect, but I'm glad she got to go out on her own terms.

Not heroic at all, she didn't even stop the colossals and was a cheap way for her to never face the consequences of her betraying the island

It was dope but Floch indirectly killed her so he takes that dub

I'M STILL CRYING ABOUT IT, SHE WENT OUT LIKE A FUCKING CHAMP

I'm super frustrated that she died, but she was heroic

She’s a traitor, nothing more to be said

i hated it. it was perfect. she really did go out with a bang and i hate it

Felt a bit pointless, would've loved to see some emphasize why it was crucial to kill these exact two titans. For me it looked like plain suicide

Had to go through the 5 stages of grief after that one, honestly. I was so angry immediately afterward because Hange is my favorite character of all time in any piece of media, losing them was almost like losing someone I've known and cared about for almost 7 years of my life. I've now come to accept that maybe death is the only happy ending any character can achieve in this story.

I don’t want to think about it

I don't like the idea of every Scout commander having a ""curse"" that they have to inevitably pay for with their lives. They're outstanding people and volunteers, just like their comrades, no one forced them to join.

  WHAT WAS THE ASPECT YOU LIKED MOST ABOUT HANGE’S LAST MOMENTS? 1,687 responses

This question was fun to write but looking at the even distribution of selections, I suspect choosing an answer was difficult. Levi saying devote your heart to Hange was top pick with close to 30% selecting it. Retaining their sense of humor to the end (17.1%), being able to reunite with their old comrades (14.7%), having a moment of amazement while confronting the titans (14.4%), being able to die on their own terms and say goodbye (12.3%), stealing death from Reiner yet again (8.2%) and telling Armin he can boss Levi around (3.4%) were the other selections.

I really love Hange and when i see her died and see erwin and other old friends and morbit helping her i just cannot cry (sorry for my english im french ^^)

I was never a really big fan of Hange, but that exit was badass as hell.

It was a heroic death but it felt forced and unnecessary and she was my favorite character, so I'm extremely salty and in denial.

Hange seemed too eager to just die, like welp, i guess my contract is up, gotta go die.....It felt like when actors are written off a show

I never really considered myself a fan of her, but her death got me good. I think it was because how she marvelled and was genuinely amazed by titans, even in her final moments.

glad to see the old titan obsessed hange back before her final sacrifice

Most people seem to think that Hange's death was a bullshit ending, but I think that it was perfect, going out the way they were introduced.

To have hange say that titans are amazing before she dies was just perfect! It shows how she stayed true to herself until the end. And the part where she reunited with Moblit, Erwin, Mike and the others was so beautiful.

  WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE HANGE QUOTE THIS CHAPTER? 1,686 responses

Hange really got to shine this chapter as we’re reminded of how off-kilter and fun they can be, even when the situation is at its most serious. We got a chapter chock full of memorable lines, but the favorite was of course “Titans really are incredible,” a call back to the reverence and respect for titans that made so many love the character to begin with.

"titans.. are truly incredible." was a fitting last(ish) words for hange.

  SO GOES THE 14TH COMMANDER OF THE SCOUTS, HANGE ZOE, FOLLOWING IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THEIR PREDECESSORS. WHAT ARE YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS ON THEIR OVERALL LEGACY? 802 responses

GOAT

I think their legacy is one of grit and determination in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. Not as revolutionary as say, Erwin, but they were perseverant and selfless, and innovative in their own right, as a scientist and researcher, always seeking new possibilities.

I will always remember Hange as our awesome scientist who came up with ideas for weapons! and was passionate about titans! and would stand up for a better comprehension of them instead of... whatever it is that Isayama made of Hange post-time skip that they no longer could shine about anything or would even reflect about what Eren was going through. Love you, Hange, you deserved that we followed your struggles more closely. <3

Hange became the commander in the most difficult moment and had bad times having to deal with politics, a whole new world and their own powerlessness. I think the Alliance is their most precious legacy and it really represents the old SC's spirit.

I adored seeing them go from loony scientist to a powerful and serious commander, even if it did come with a boatload of trauma. I also respect the hell out of them for being willing to watch their own culture destroyed if it meant not committing genocide. On a more personal note, as a nonbinary person it's just been really wonderful to see a character like Hange treated with such respect.

Amazing character and leader. Not on Erwin's level but she was a badass 😭😭 #rip

*you tried star*

A bit hypocritical. She was willing to stop Eren and endanger all Eldiana to save strangers from other nations that want to kill them. She also says killing is wrong, but proceeds to kill multiple Eldians unbothered, but when she sees Marleyans or people from other nations, she softens up.

Being a commander is not an easy job, and Hange's start was even more difficult because of Zeke annihilating like 90%(??) of the Scouts and the reveal in the basement and the crisis that followed. Still, she kept going, never giving up, even if she clearly had some moments of selfdoubt. I feel like Hange can be proud of herself and the life she lived, and I am happy that she was able go in her own terms. Her death bought them precious time, but it was a great loss as well. I feel a bit empty and wistful...

Brilliant character, brilliant way to let them go. I’m most interested to see how this death will effect Armin and his leadership as they alliance approach the founding titan. I’m also glad we got to see them in the afterlife, that was a bittersweet comfort.

Every commander dies young, rip armin

Hange was annoying. Glad they're dead.

Hange was incredible in their own field of interest, but definitely not fit to be the commander. Loved how they could be themself once again at the end.

Followed in Erwin's footsteps and even went beyond. Hange will be remembered as the commander who took Paradis from the titans and who explored beyond the island for the first time in 100+ years. Plus a rational commander, putting facts and science before everything else, as well as grasping how important diplomacy and politics are even beyond Paradis. Also although quirky, an example of tolerance.

Fuck that.. Their death was worthy of them.. it was a very sweet goodbye.. But I really thought they would make it to the end... And I really wanted them to. Hange was such an important character, they did so much for the cause and for everyone. They were someone who could be trusted but who didn't hesitate to do what had to be done. Incredibly smart and humbled, I just wish they believed in themselves a bit more.. cus they are incredible.

Hange was given a shit-circus to try and handle- complete with clowns, children causing mayhem, and a giant fucking monkey.

Her "gEnOcIdE iS wRoNg" quote with no actual solution in 126 really turned me off for her for a while as a character; overall however, Hange was one of the more memorable and likable characters from the series and it's sad to see her go.

Given the difficult job of rebuilding the Survey Corps after its destruction with very little help. Had to deal with the wannabe hegemon in Zackly who was doing lots of underhanded power grabs in the background. Had to deal with a populace who finally realized they were not alone. Had to deal with a moody weapon known as the Attack titan who knew all the answers but shared it with no one. Poor Hange who was never given a chance for victory

Hange was amazing character that got entirely too much flack for not being a "good commander" This is a character that above all stayed true to themselves in what they fought for and believed in.

Hange Zoe spat on the legacy of the scouting league by squandering their sacrifice to protect their families and communities. Hange's actions if successful will likely lead to the deaths of all their families which is something they would never support.

Considering how we never truly knew if Erwin was totally devoted to humanity or totally selfish, and considering Shardiz' inferiority complex, Hanji was the true one who gave her whole being to humanity and who truly embodied Survey Corps' abnegation, without any regard toward such senseless conception like homeland. No wonder why the title of her final battle is "Wings of Freedom"

Legendary commanders, each one going out with with a bang. Erwin going out by distracting Monke and Levi taking him out. Hange going out by taking care of a few Bert ripoffs, having the alliance survive a few more hours. And Armin, wait-

Hange helped the main characters in the story with her quick thinking and managed to put the missing pieces into place for us. Their different outlook on the whole situation gave us a fresh perspective and there’ll be no one else like them.

hange is great!!! too bad she tortured bean and sawney tho and sannes smh but 10/10 regardless love that mad scientist

Hange embodied the spirit of the survey corp. She was the commander that made unlikely alliances and advanced Paradis infrastructure.

Hange has been one of my favorite characters. They are the best Titan Scientist. RIP.

Thank you Hange, you did great 💖

  FLOCH FINALLY GOT THE GLOCK. OR ACTUALLY, THE ANCHOR. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HIS LAST HURRAH? 1,660 responses

Let’s not forget that Hange wasn’t the only major death in this chapter.  After months of being voted most likely to die, Floch’s time finally came.  About 30% of respondents are just celebrating that he’s finally dead, a quarter are glad he’s dead but got this last fun scene, and 20.4% are glad he was able to screw with the alliance once more before dying.

🦀🦀🦀FLOCH IS DEAD🦀🦀🦀

A fitting ending for an interesting, yet very unpleasant character. Love how his death was contrasted with Hange's, and the fact that Mikasa was the one to off him (the symbolism of the person who represents Eren's humanity killing the person who keeps referring to him as the devil is... well, not subtle but it can't be ignored).

Could have done more, but he never wavered or lost his convictions, more of a hero than any of the alliance will ever be

he should have been dead since 129, makes no sense

He should've stayed on the island and failed

Died a hero, wouldn’t even beg for his life but for his friends and countrymen instead

Even though I didn't really like him, I have my full respect to him for following his beliefs till his last breath

Floch is one of the best characters, and most complex characters, he got a very good ending.

I love eren’s boyfriend ♡

He died a hero's death after carrying chapters 124-130 on his back. He also did nothing wrong.

He's a mega chad and I love him. Managing to survive underwater for 2 days and slowly losing blood, and then shooting the ship to stop the Alliance, and then having a bomb-ass speech? He was a legend that needs to be appreciated more.

His arm should've been blown off to begin with and even if it wasn't, he should've died from hypothermia. I think it was needed drama, but done poorly.

His death was far better executed than I thought. He shot the fuel tank instead of one of the SC or one of the engineers/Onyankopon. That should tells you that he just want them to stop, not killing them all. He stays true to his belief of saving Paradis by following Eren, even in his last words he is pleading for Paradis' instead of his own live. From someone whose country has been colonized once, I say that is a true soldier for his nation.

Oh fuck off floch, he was a dick with volatile ideals anyway. Fuck that guy honestly. Like I agree with his stance but like. Everytime it feels oddly implanted when he has an opinion, like he does think with his own head but gets influenced very easily into changing sides too fast? Like, he does the right things but jot for the right reasons because he doesn't really think them through enough? That's my vibe. Idk. Ignore all my answers I feel stupid

RIP Hero of Paradis. To save your civilisation is an admirable goal, although it being achieved through genocide is still morally wrong

I'm sad he didn't get to know how Eren used him.

  FLOCH FORSTER WAS A COMMANDER IN HIS OWN RIGHT, FIGHTING HIS WAY UP FROM HIS ORIGINS AS A BACKGROUND CHARACTER. ANY OVERALL THOUGHTS ON THE BIRD NEST BOI AND HIS IMPACT ON THE STORY? 912 responses

Best boy. Fly high you little devil :(( <3

a bitch but i respect the fact that he did what he believed in (even if its genocide😕)

Controversially, I have no opinion on him.

Ding dong the witch is dead

A character that was perfectly written for his purpose. AoT World isnt black and white and he showed us. Pain and loss made the Floch that died in 132. but Eldia and Marley made the Floch that survived to see all his comrades dead.

Floch is shit :) but also is a good character because its represents a real human.

A complete and satisfying character. It's not easy to summarize, but the way he went from a naive gloryhound to a single-minded guy trying to make his own survival/the deaths from the charge mean something while still remaining a relatively normal, unremarkable soldier was great. Also, I appreciate how he, Eren, and the Yeagerists basically reenacted Uprising by overthrowing a regime that would've just continued the royal family-eating and messed around until the island got destroyed. The prediction from Sannes all those years ago turned out to be too accurate, unfortunately.

A lot of people did hate Floch, I didn't. I think adding Floch to the story was just as essential as the other supporting characters. He played out a good and effectively annoying enemy. I think in every Action-thriller story, a Floch is a must as a villain. The hate on Floch reminded me of the hate on Joffrey from Game of Thrones. But Joffrey did have a great impact on the story, so did Floch. The way he was written just really did manage to get on our nerves, and I think that's what makes a character great.

A true patriot.

An asshole but at least he went out feeling like a rounded character

An nazi ass bitch

Based and Redpilled

Best character not named Eren or Erwin.

By far exceeded expectations.

Disagree with his agenda, but he's a very real character and a representation of the monster someone can become when driven by survivor's guilt and trauma.

He was the literally epitome of a roller coaster ride.

Floch always felt like a background character, and even though he gets far more to do than other background characters, he never felt like an actual person but rather just a plot device. He has no personality.

Floch was surprisingly good given he was such a minor character. He fully displayed the shades of gray of the narrative.

Heck him >:(

Floch has always been someone who held an opposing view to the main cast, and his entire arc revolved around his need to "bring back the devil" in order to ensure the safety of his land and his people. Some people seem to have forgotten that, but at his core he never changed. Sad to see him go out like this.

Floch has my respect for fighting until the very end (and even after the end since we all thought he'd been killed by Gabi) for what he believes in, but obviously it is not what I and my favourite characters believe in, so I'm glad he's gone. His impact is great as he earned the title of "most tenacious villain ever" when he only really started as a coward rookie soldier many chapters ago. Also props to him for holding onto this boat for such a long time and being up for a fight after probably being hauled in the sea and swallow more water he ever had his entire life.

The panel of him shushing Hanji will always be iconic. His descent into nationalism (new Eldian empire, anyone?) however, was not so cash money"

When Floch had captured Miss Kiyomi (ch. 128) he dismissed what she said and had his speech about ‘it’s important to know your place’, and then not even a minute later he was taken down by this same old lady smh. Previously, he wanted to kill Onyankopon and Yelena, but Jean deceived him and he failed. Later, he wanted to kill someone on the boat, but Gabi shot him and he failed. He wanted to stop the alliance, but Mikasa got him with her anchor and he didn’t just fail, he died. I’ve seen some readers applaud him for fighting for what he believes in and having a strong will, but they don’t see what else there is. Strong will? Not giving up? So many characters have the same traits in AoT. The difference is that Floch repeatedly never achieved what he wanted to accomplish, despite his strong will and belief to not give up. His determination and willpower made him achieve nothing. By contrast, Hange’s will and determination to keep fighting made her kill about 2-4 colossals and save her allies just in time for them to get away. Is the difference obvious enough? Their deaths are even put in the same chapter. Floch was not important, admirable, or whatever you want to praise him like. He kept interfering with the alliance and for what? He simply never knew his place.

He played a larger role than I ever thought he would and became one of the most interesting characters during this time. I’m glad he was here to push the story along, and I’ll miss him.

His fans are insufferable but he is a needed counterbalance to the alliance characters and stuck to his beliefs to the end.

He started up as a fodder and ends up as one of the biggest threats for SC. I might be in the minority when I said I already like him since pre time skip. He showed us how the war is like from the perspective of a normal soldier, not the talented ones who got into the 10 top ranks. Just a normal soldier who was inspired by the words of his leader to devote his heart, and came to a realization that it's an actual hell, just like reality. Maybe he's wrong to vent about choosing Armin instead of Erwin when Armin was feeling down, but I can understand. All his friends died, he's currently having emotional and survivor trauma over the suicide charge, and all of those sufferings came to a waste because of the people in front of him.

Pee pee poo poo

Good riddance. What a worthless pile of garbage.

Goodnight sweet prince

  ARMIN WANTS TO BRING ALONG THE LEFTOVER EXPLOSIVES. HOW WILL THEY BE USED? 1,638 responses

Chekov’s explosives are now in play.  37.7% of you think they’ll be used to try to blow Eren out of his nape, and 33.7% think they’ll definitely be used for another suicide mission.

Another failed suicide attempt by Reiner

Any of the above, depending on the situation. I think Armin isn't really thinking of anything in particular, simply that having the option to explode something is better than not.

Armin could use them as a suicide necklace to threaten Eren. If Eren still cares for Armin he may stop the rumbling if he knows it will stop Armin from killing himself and possibly Mikasa.

dude there's been so many unexpected turns and plot twists right now I really don't want to make any assumption. But the plane idea is interesting.

i still think armin will fight eren with his colossal titan. I can only hope for something truly epic.

I think they'll be used for more than one of the above

Idk, but for sure they want to damage Eren's Titan to buy some time in doing something

If Eren doesn’t comply I’d assume they will be used to destroy his “nape” if they can even find it. Someone probably has to go on a suicide mission to do so.

Kamikaze Onyankopon like its written all over the poor fellas face,

Levi will suicide bomb Zeke to cut off Eren's connection to paths

make my brain explode hopefully since this plot is ridiculously bad

Only Armin (and Isayama) knows how the explosives will be used. I'm sure it will have something to do with stopping Eren.

Plan A: Blast Eren nape, but it will fail so Plan B: Kamikaze

Reiner will try to use the bombs to commit suicide and take Eren with himself

they'll probably kaboom zook with that idk (I missed my monke so so much)

They will be as useful as farting on Eren.

  WHAT DID YOU THINK OF MIKASA AND ANNIE’S CONVERSATION? 1,665 responses

Mikasa and Annie have a heart to heart near the start of the chapter, after being rivals early in the story.  The two most popular options were being in awe of the cuteness when Armin became the topic, at 34%, and just loving seeing these two characters interact, at 31.3%.  17.5% are wondering how they made the switch to friends so quickly, 9.5% view it as rehashing what’s already been talked about, and 7.8% are more interested in that Mikannie action.

Mikasa's reaction was so cute after realizing Annie has a thing for Armin.

The chapter was also surprisingly humorous, with Mikasa's reaction to learning Annie likes Armin having me burst out laughing.

The sudden closeness between Alliance members who used to be enemies, such as Mikasa/Annie, feel forced and unearned, and the extra Armin/Annie shipping is just unnecessary and a waste of panels when we are so close to the ending yet many things still need closure.

Aruani😍

Mikasa and Annie's conversation almost made me gag because I feel so sorry for Annie having to put up with the constant misunderstanding of her feelings. Annie is aromantic and Mikasa needs to sit down and respect that fact quite like Armin himself does.

I legit laughed out loud when reading Mikasa and Annie's chit chat. At 1 AM.

  MIKASA TELLS ANNIE SHE HAS KEPT THE SCARF WITH HER. WHAT DO YOU THINK HER PLAN IS? 1,662 responses

The scarf has become an actual plot point as of late, with Louise stealing it and now this.  Will it be important for the end game?  45.1% of you believe Mikasa will use it to try to see if the Eren she used to know, who gave it to her is still in there somewhere.  29.1% of you don’t think she has any particular plans as of yet.  15.2% think she’ll comfort Eren in it once they stop him, and 10.5% are putting their money down on the “She’ll use it to strangle Eren” option.

Mikasa need to understand the Eren she remembers is no longer coming back from this.

Mikasa is really a frustrating character... but I think it's on purpose that she keeps swinging from realizing who he really is (chapter 123) and still wanting to be with him (or rather the idealized version she has of him aka the ""old Eren""), because her whole character arc is to separate herself from Eren and coping with it."It's up to Mikasa whether or not she'll be a slave. If she decides to fight against her slave instincts, Eren will have no choice but to kill her since, as an Ackerman, Mikasa, is immune to the memory-fuckery.

In fact, Mikasa should just hang herself with Eren's scarf and the story would become infinitely better and women might finally have better representation. I have never liked Mikasa, but now I actively despise her. She is nothing more than an Eren simp as was revealed to us when she said she's still holding onto that threadbare rag of hers despite everything Eren has proven himself capable of doing. You know, that whole genocide thing that Mikasa herself barely survived in this very chapter while her Commander very much did not. "

I feel tired of people who make fun of Mikasa. She is the one who still believes in Eren's good side and doesn't see him as monster. Everyone else see Eren as devil, while Mikasa still keeps memories about kind Eren and believes that this "old Eren" still is somewhere there. He is the most important person in her life and she will not give up on him as fast as everyone think. She is not obsessed. She is aware of Eren's dark side, of his cruelty and everything he has been doing, but on the same time she will still keep trying to help him and show him that he is NOT the devil, he is not as horrible person as he thinks he is. Everyone are saying that HISTORIA saved him in the cave when he was in his dark moments. Maybe this time it will be Mikasa who will save him from his darkest nightmare.

I can't wait for Eren × Mikasa confrontation "

  WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN WITH THOSE ON THE BOAT? 1,653 responses

The party has split in two, with one half going directly to Eren, and the other half…?  Nearly half of you think that they’ll certainly end up doing something to help the alliance still.  21.8% think they’ll run into the survivors of Liberio, 17.9% think they will in fact be absent for most of the story no, and 11% think they’ll dock at Paradis and do something of import there.

Please isayama, please don’t add any more needless sideplots with the boat doing something

Could have done many alliance interactions/good-byes better. Reiner didn't seem to care for the kids, despite them being his motivation to live. Bert never mentioned. Annie/Armin had no discussion. What are the boat crew even going to do?

"Falco & co. WILL join the battle! At least he has to, because the Jaw Titan is the only one who can break through the Warhammer's hardening!

With them leaving Falco behind (and therefore the Jaw titan's power), I think the explosives may at some point be used if Even tries to shield himself using the Warhammer's power.

Anyone that thinks Annie, Falco and Gabi sailed off is an idiot.

The only thing I'm not too sure about is Annie, Gabi, Falco, Yelena and Kiyomi staying behind. I was every character to have their chance to shine in the final battle. Hopefully, Isayama will find a way to bring these characters back into the conflict.

  WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT LEVI EQUIPPING HIMSELF FOR BATTLE? 1,661 responses

After being blown up and almost out of the story a year and a half ago, Levi is finally suiting back up to get a slice of someone or something, despite still being heavily injured and scarred.  Almost half of the fandom, at 44.6% are excited for his upcoming role in the story, but find it hard to believe he’s ready to fight, as it hasn’t quite been a year and a half in their world.  About a quarter, at 23.2% have been waiting for this moment to finally come for all that time.  15.1% want him to stay away from danger the way he has been, and 9.2% wish he would have just died all those chapters ago.

Kinda silly, but I'll roll with it.

Now that we know Levi is ready for battle, I think his role in the story at this point is for one final confrontation with Zeke (assuming Zeke is within Eren's Founding Titan body somewhere). There, Levi will kill Zeke once and for all to finally fulfill his promise to Erwin, but something tells me Levi will die shortly after he lands the killing blow on Zeke.

Beast Titan vs Levi Round 3

Can't wait till he's forced to team up with Zeke

He will go out in a blaze

Definitely going out with a bang. He’s done with life, it’s obvious he is just here now to complete an objective, he wants to go out strong because of the weight of the survey corpse members gave him. Everyone he has cared about has died. He wants make them proud in a sense, at least dying with pride, and finally getting to meet them again in the afterlife.

I think he should have died in the explosion BUT I think that to do that, he should have had a longer philosophical talk with zeke and overcome his erwin issues, AND THEN die

He’s survived this long- he’s definitely earned the rights to go out on his own terms.

His comeback to fight is just another asspull.

How can he even move, let alone fight? If he survives all of this I’ll be shocked.

I can only see a Pyrrhic victory. I'm scared.

Isayama still has the chance to have Levi die by Eren's hands. The entire story has been leading up to this. Levi was always right about Eren and the sweet irony is that Levi always fought and saw all of his comrades die for Eren only to get killed by Eren as well.

I don't know why people are angry at that. Levi is a soldier and is not a suicidal one. He has a definite role to play and I don't want him to sit around. He's been through much worse.

He is a liability, I don't see him surviving.

-Death flag initiated-

He ain't surviving this one, huh?

Good that he’s feeling better. But I don’t want him to die.

He’s going to make a final charge and die

The man can barely stand on his own, so I think fighting is pretty much out of the question. Really interested in seeing what a character who has always relied first and foremost on violence is going to do now that this has been taken away from him.

As a good commander (and letting annie stay) Hange or Armin had to tell him to stay in boat, like he s only going to kill himself against zeke if he crossed him

He'll be fine...right? RIGHT?!

he'll probably die in a suicide attack on the monke

I feel like this may be a death-sentence. Levi dying and finally getting the burden of killing Zeke off his chest is a likely/ and good way for his character arc to end.

I just hope he doesn't have a cliche death alongside Zeke.

He'll rest with his comrades soon

He will get more injured, then give a speech to mikasa about letting the man he loved die instead of becoming a monster, then he will die

Watching him makes my anxiety level raised to 100

He's gonna give monkey chan a thousand years of death two finger style

Please just let him rest, he's tired, I'm tired, we're all tired ffs

  YELENA IS HOLDING FAST TO HER BELIEF IN THE EUTHANASIA PLAN AS THE ONLY WAY TO PEACEFULLY END THE CONFLICT. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ZEKE’S PLAN IN HINDSIGHT? 1,620 responses

While the plurality of fans acknowledge Zeke’s plan is better than Eren’s (at 48.2%), only 7.7% say they agree in hindsight, and 5.8% always agreed with Zeke, for a combined 13.5%.  This makes a total of 61.7% who would vote for it over Eren’s plan today.  Interestingly, when Zeke’s plan was first revealed in 114, 76% voted for his plan when given the choice between that and rumbling the world.  So after seeing the rumbling, the support for Zeke’s plan as an alternative has actually dropped.

I get it, Yelena’s something of an ideologue but the fact that she still thinks euthanasia is the way to go is sad

I originally thought forced euthanization was disgusting and now I’m hindsight it’s still disgusting and solves nothing.

I still hate it. The lesser evil doesn't mean it's an optimal solution. Would've kept Kiyomi's plan by sacrificing Historia and only attacking the military forces to keep them at bay.

Thinking with logic only, Zeke had a good plan, but if we put emotions and moral in to play, it's just horrible. I don't support it, not even now.

It's a terrible plan. Eren's plan is evil AF, but it's not stupid. Zeke's plan it's stupid. Imagine throwing your entire nation under the bus because your dad didn't hug you? Zeke's a loser.

Maybe so in this messed up world, but then again no. Both plans are awful, the answer to solving this question was to stop hatred in the first place and find a way to have a conversation with everyone. Clearing the air, stopping the rumors and fake news regarding Eldians being devils, etc.

Both plans are shit. 50 year plan + a partial Rumbling (in other words probably Armin's choice) is the most logical plan.

Denying children being born is denying a human being to grow and live their own live, and experience the world. I never accepted Zeke's plan and never will.

Depends whether you were born in Paradis or outside of Paradis.

Eren's plan is better. It ensures Eldians can survive and continue to grow. Zeke's plan just makes them die out. Me no likey.

50 year plan gang 50 year plan gang

Both plan suck.. But everything fair in love and war so...   The winner was the one who right

There has to be some third option we/they just can't think of that doesn't involve genociding the entire planet *or enslaving another young woman (Historia in this case)

Zeke's plan was the lesser evil OF THESE TWO (Rumbling and Euthanasia). They should have found a third, peaceful option that doesn't kill anyone off.

“Evil is evil, Stregobor. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  JEAN SEEMED RATTLED BY FLOCH’S FINAL WORDS. HOW DO YOU THINK THEY WILL AFFECT JEAN? 1,641 responses

We’ve seen Jean yearn for a peaceful life on Paradis, and Floch has tried to convince him to give in to that desire before.  Did Floch’s dying words do anything to further affect Jean?  About 69% of respondents say that we will see Jean think on them, but he’ll end up staying with his current convictions.  Interestingly, among the 17.8% who think he will change his mind on helping the alliance, 12.9% think he’ll join Eren and actively oppose the alliance, vs. the 4.9% who think he’ll just abandon the mission like Annie.

After 127 no way is Jean leaving the Alliance. However, I think this will affect his resolve and affect whatever discussion they end up having over how to stop Eren.

Dies trying to avenge Mikasa

He was rattled by Floch's dying moments, as he was one of the last survivors from the Survey corps of Erwin's time

He'll single-handedly stop Eren by telling him how cringe his followers are

he's gonna hesitate when he shouldn't have and will die for it

I feel like it's not the words, but the actions--Floch is who Jean could have been if he didn't see past his own self-interest.

Floch died so his homeland could live. His noble death will inspire Jean to fulfill his duty as a soldier of ELDIA, and oppose the alliance. Thus, Floch will have helped Eldia one last time. Even after he died.

He's too coward to do something about it. Jean's arc was all about suppressing his own desires and keep moving forward; he's a slave of his sense of duty.

I smell another sacrifice coming.

I think it's too late for him to change his mind at this point. We're almost at the end. He'll move forward because that's what he promised Marco. He won't be able to look him and his comrades in the eye if he alters his stance.

  WAS ARMIN THE BEST CHOICE AS COMMANDER? 1,639 responses

From Keith to Erwin, to Hange to Armin.  Was that the right step to take in the line of succession?  The majority, at 61.8% believe that Armin is the perfect choice, at least for this particular Eren scenario.  Just over a quarter, at 26.5% are sticking with Marco saying Jean has the potential to lead.  11.7% are wishing Hange stayed in command instead.

I didn't like the way Hange died and how she left the commander role to Armin. He's probably the worst person to take the job, not long ago he was literally trying to kill himself (chapter 126) cause that's how insecure he is.

"I both believe Jean makes a better overall commander than Armin *and* that Hange's choice in this instant was the correct one.

Jean has more of a skill and flair for leadership. He is, as Marco once said, the every man which makes it easier to follow him. With his attitude, he can inspire others to follow his plans even if they do not closely know him. He also has some more confidence in himself. He doesn't have Armin's mind for crazy strategies, but he still can reasonably think of his feet and is willing to take hard decisions and sacrifices as they are needed. If the story was still like it had been earlier in the manga, with a big Survey corps and regular missions, he should be the commander.

People are arguing who ""deserved"" to be the commander between Armin and Jean, when it doesn't fucking matter because there are like 5 people left in ""old"" SC and they are all on a suicide mission. What *does* matter is that everything was pushed on poor Armin yet again, first Erwin was allowed to die and his legacy was put on him and Hange, who never asked for this, now Hange killed themselves too and left Armin to solve this shit by himself. I wish he would call out Levi, because his decision in Serumbowl is what led to this mess, but we'll probably not get that.

Jean shouldve be the commander but it's okay to be armin

Either Hange should've lived or Jean should've been the commander

Armin becoming Commander was probably the highlight of this chapter for me

I thought it was a good death for hange, but also kind of a combo of all of the above choices; their death seemed rushed just to make armin commander. I don’t hate armin, but I don’t think he should be commander, and it feels so much like isayama had NOTHING planned for hange ad commander, which was extremely disappointing. but at least hans is at peace lol

Armin as commander? Really? He has never really led troops in to battle. He is not a logistician or a tactician. He is only a good strategist, but even then he failed to plan for everything that Eren has so far done. Can you imagine him turning into a titan and attempting to direct everyone? He’ll kill them all or put them on fire by waving his arms. I’m so worried for him and for Jean too. Jean is suppose to be the next commander or why else is he even here?

A bit sad we didn’t get much time with her a commander, but she was a GOAT

A "You Tried" commander that was truly ineffective. Erwin should've been kept around.

Each Survey Corps Commander (current or former) all dedicated their hearts to protect humanity. If someone or something threatens their mission and their lives, they do what is necessary to uphold the mission, mainly giving up their lives in order to give time for their comrades to act. Their sacrifices affect their closest allies to the point that they have to carry on their mission by any means necessary.

Felt like a filler commander for Armin wish Hange had gotten to do more and be more successful

1- Armin isn't the new commander of the survey corps because the SC belongs to Paradise island and he & his group betrayed that place .

2- Armin is the new commander of the alliance .

Not sure of making Armin commander the best choice but mmm yeah, Isayama needed them out of the way to make a final Armin/Eren confrontation *sigh*

survey cops commander is the worst position you can find yourself at the moment. I can't even imagine what's on Armin mind right now

Armin does actually make the better leader. The problem in front of them is Eren. Even though he doubts himself right now, Armin has always been able to understand Eren and get through to Eren in a way others (and definitely not Jean) can't. He's also capable of thinking outside of the box in a manner that this situation needs. Though he's only now made commander, throughout the Rumbling arc, we've already seen that his closest friends look to him for leadership/plans. And while he still lacks self-confidence (though, who knows, maybe he'll get a special Levi talk??) a lot of his other leadership flaws (like his limited ability to command and inspire groups) are not relevant now because there isn't huge group of people anymore. There is just a handful of his friends left who already trust in his abilities. He doesn't need to inspire loyalty right now; that has already been built over years.

Narratively speaking the Alliance are the true successors of the SC, not the Jaegerist and the 15th commander is Armin, not Floch.

Hange should've stayed alive.

king jean commander jean ftw

  COULD SOMEONE ELSE HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THE COLOSSALS IN PLACE OF HANGE? 1,621 responses

We’re losing a lot of veterans lately and suddenly.  After Magath and Keith’s sacrifice a few chapters ago, was Hange’s necessary as well?  The vast majority, at just over ¾ say that others could have technically taken the role, but Hange was still the best choice to stay behind, as morale would be drained much more by the commander sending others to their deaths.

A mix between love and hate. With Shadis' death (specially after Nile and Pixis) I thought that Isayama was judt getting rid of a veteran again. But Hange's death at least had her in character, and she was the one who deserved to see her comrades the most.

At first it was nice to see them sacrificing themselves but then I noticed i didn't really care much. It was too sudden and a copypaste of Magath's death

Hange died because the situation called for it. She did what she had to do because of Floch. I feel like the anime will make it much clearer that Hange HAD to die.

Shoulda been Reiner bruh

I think Armin could use his titan, stand on the water and push avery titan that was going to destroy the Angar but anyway

Shadis' death left a bad taste in my mouth since Magath could've handled the deed on his own. Shadis didn't need to die. Hanji too could've sent someone else in her stead; she is (was) the commander, a veteran, she was necessary. Not saying that I would've wanted Jean or Connie to die or anything, but sending one of these two or Mikasa to hold back the titans would've made sense.

  WHAT IS THE TRUTH BEHIND THE SCENE WHERE HANGE MEETS THE DEAD SCOUTS? 1,649 responses

The scene where Hange, after having died, seems to wake up to meet the rest of the deceased Survey Corps members was a scene unlike any we’ve seen before in this manga. Isayama hasn’t shied away from the depressing reality of death before, so what exactly is happening here? 45.9% of respondents think it was strange enough that something real was happening, Paths, afterlife… something. 30.3% don’t buy it being real and think it was a symbolic scene, perhaps to lessen the pain of Hange’s death. 23.8% think it was purely in Hange’s mind, a euphoric experience to lessen the physical shock of death. Whatever it was, it was remarkable.

Purely symbolic, though I don’t mind if it has to do with Paths

The comrades scene its a metaphore of the relief she had sacrificing herself, being useful just like her comrades and friends before her.

Probably Valhalla, would be pretty badass if it was confirmed in the end to actually be Valhalla or something.

THE AOT AFTER LIFE  IS REAL AND MY BBYS LIVE AGAIN 🤧😭

The author was trying to Placate the audience over killing off a popular character

The characters that died may have their happy ending in heaven

The dead comrades have always been watching over the living.

We only see Eldians, it very well could be a connection to Paths. And it seems like the people you go to are people you knew well and had a strong connection with. ALSO I'M HAPPY WE GOT A GLIMPSE OF SASHA and seeing Erwin for most likely the final time is cool too.

Afterlife real. Dead characters keep on living. Shifters go to PATHS, probably. Expect a specific someone to appear :)

Delusions of a naive and idealistic character. Hange saw what Hange wanted to see.

Dunno, but i REALLY hope that was just Isayama softening the blow for Hanji fans and what not, otherwise having a true afterlife would render all deaths and racrifices pointless and would ruin the whole theme of survival the manga has.

Eren may be using PATHS fuckery to comfort Hange in her death.

I believe the final scene did happen as Instructor Keith is seen in the back and Hange should have no knowledge of his death.

I don't think Isayama particularly cares for fan service in any regard (though Annie x Armin might signal a change), so I don't think he'd dedicate that to make Hange's death any less tragic. I think there's something to it.

  NOW THAT WE’VE SEEN THAT IT’S POSSIBLE FOR OUR DEAD FAVORITE CHARACTERS TO STILL HAVE THEIR SOULS, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE REST OF THE STORY? 1,621 responses

If these ghostly figures do make another appearance in the final confrontation, what on earth will they do?! 43.1% say they don’t matter damn it, because they’re not even real. 32.2% think the dead characters might be alive in some kind of afterlife, but it’s just an interesting part of the SnK universe. 18.8% think that PATHS will make its infinite fuckery known once again, and 6% think that those ghosts are going to make a difference standing up to Eren – how is he gonna fight against a million dead guys, huh?

The most interesting part about the data we got was a surge in responses for only this and the previous question. About 300 entries to the poll which only wanted to submit that “It was purely symbolic and Hange did not experience this,” and “I ain’t afraid of no ghosts. It was just in Hange’s mind or symbolic.” Now that is curious indeed. For someone who ain’t afraid of ghosts, I’m sensing some real trepidation here!

They likely will not interact with nor affect the coming events, as their roles have already played out.

" Valhalla’s battle-honed residents are there by the will of Odin, who collects them for the perfectly selfish purpose of having them come to his aid in his fated struggle against the wolf Fenrir {Fenir had been previously associated with Eren by fans} during Ragnarok – a battle in which Odin and the einherjar are doomed to die."

Setup for Reiner to converse with his fallen comrades.

Afterlife. Not convinced it's significant in any way, but would love it to be

An afterlife would be completely unnecessary for the story and make things needlessly more complicated for little reason/narrative payoff.

Feels like a set up for an ending where even if everyone dies they can be together in the afterlife

Mobuhan is fucking real

Hange is in heaven, surrounded by everyone who she's fought alongside. She can't help the alliance in any way, but she can watch them win. And they will win.

They are bystanders.

  CARE TO EXPOUND YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS SCENE AND WHAT IT MEANS? 611 responses

Through PATHS the thought of 'Afterlife' is possible. And if it isn't, then it's nice to hallucinate something good while they're dying.

Is hange really dead?

it means ERWIN KNOWS WHAT'S IN THE BASEMENT AYEEEE

IT MEANS ERWIN GETS MORE LINES WOOO

y'know how from the start there's been the idea that the survey corps have been making sacrifices that no one will ever care about? this is a rebuke to that. Hange, like every other survey corps member, is watched over by their own dead and now Hange gets to be a part of the ghost crew that watches over the corps and occasionally appears to freak out the commander. I also tend to dislike the idea that this manga has a perfectly happy afterlife because it cheapens the goal they're fighting for and comes dangerously close to validating Reiner's attempt.

You should have given a choice of this is symbolic. Ya'll should really read more fiction if ya'll think this is really the afterlife ffs

Afterlife makes all the deaths useless and less impactful, hope it's not a thing.

All the Eldians have the ability to “stay” alive after they die thanks to the paths dimension.

All this suffering to get an afterlife?!?

Although I do think that an afterlife could be possible, I don't think it'll affect the story. It may come back during the epilogue, but I can't figure out how Isayama could use it for the main story plot.

Anything is possible, either it's Hange's own hallucinations or something real. Though i would like for it to be smth tangible, (esp since a clue was that Hange didn't know Shadis died but he appeared anyways). idk I'd just like for everyone to be happy and see each other again 😭

Beetroot alive in PATHS and he's gonna kill Eren

Being dead is happier than living in this world, such an uplifting moral Isayama

Both Hange and Erwin thought about their comrades and "saw" them when their role was weighing on them. I don't think I have nothing against it being real, but I like the symbolism. Some things are cooler when I don't overthink.

Perhaps it will be less edgy to see so much death if there is an afterlife in SnK, but use the opportunity well! For me it was a gift to see the veterans again: Moblit caring for Hange, Erwin being in peace, Mike being there after the impact that he gave us…

every time "ghosts" have been shown in attack on titan they've just been visual depictions of the character's mental state.

Everyone who begged to see Erwin in another chapter can finally be at peace

Expansion of what chapter 85 already implied

I don't care, I'm just happy we get to see our babies again.

I think it is some sort of a special place in paths because they are standing on where Hange died, that's really weird if if it's afterlife, if it's afterlife they should be in a paradise or a peaceful place, but no. It's weird if they are all ghosts like almost the survey corps are in that area

I think it means that every dead soldier have meaning and we shouldn't forget them

I think it shows that their deaths weren’t in vain and they are watching over their comrades. It was a truly moving scene.

I think it's symbolic. Honestly with all the discourse around this scene I am not sure if it was even worth it to include.

I don't believe she's dead. We have an unexplained memory shard of her without glasses (ch130) and one of the panels this chp looks like she lost her glasses.

if levi could hurry up and join them that´d be great

If Yams tries to pull a kny I'm gonna rip him a new one. This is bullshit and he should stop before people believe there is an afterlife in aot. This doesn't fit into the story he created for years. But he is willing to kill his own world in hopes to get some readers back from stealing smth from a way more successful manga. It's pathetic.

Im still in doubt if the afterlife scene really happened since erwin is still missing his arm while the others are just fine. I hope its all just in hange's head and that someone from the boat could rescue her.

It might be the Path. Because just like Eren Kruger said, "All Eldians is connected to what we say the coordinate." This maybe a paradise or a heaven that Eren or someone with the founding titan and royal blood can control.

It only serves to dramatize hange's death. No shit, I was crying like hell when I read this scene😭😭 other than that it's just like other deaths we've seen before, only to set a dramatic and brutal tone for a thriller series

The remaining of Hange blood in the floor indicates she/he was already dead,  so no hallucinations in her last moments. Symbolic? Doesn’t sound like isayama. The only symbolic stuff in manga concerns the cult to Ymir. Has to be a connection through paths.

They really gave their hearts to humanity, they were all incredible, and it's really nostalgic to see them in this way

This scene wasn't here for no reason. It just felt different from any other vision we've seen, and I believe it'll come into play later on.

This was Hange's imagination because she saw the dead ones in the same shape she saw them alive last time like Mike and Nanaba. Erwin too(without one hand)

those who died are finally set free

You just died and entered spectator mode

  FAVORITE PIECK MOMENT THIS CHAPTER? 1,601 responses

For a chapter not focused on Pieck plotwise, there sure were a lot of short moments with her.  The two most popular options being her shooting down Hange’s ask for a ride with no hesitation, and vowing to give her comrade’s sacrifices meaning.  A moment of meme and a moment of serious nature, perfectly balanced.

Idk but Pieck is a bad bitch

Pieck sounds like she may turn on everyone in the end but I hope not.

pieck finger = some kind of marleyan erwin smith

Pieck is gonna DIE 😭

Pieck isn't really interesting....and she doesnt do any Import to the others....Just for Reiner maybe

Pieck will sacrifice herself for the sake of her fallen comrades. (that's what I think)

  WHICH “FRINGE” THEORY DO YOU BELIEVE IN? 1,597 responses

Despite the manga racing towards its conclusion crack theorists have had no shortage of new material, most recently with the bizarre amount of focus given to birds and Hange’s warm welcome to the afterlife. We wanted to find out which of these fringe theories have a broader appeal.

Nearly half the fandom is no fun at all, selecting “These theories are all just cope” (49%). For the rest of us “Birds are spies” apparently requires the least amount of tin foil since just over a third of the fandom thinks it has potential (35.4%). “The ghosts are real” (16.7%), Historia’s pregnancy is fake (13.7%) and the “The birds ARE the ghosts” (8.7%) didn’t fare quite as well.

Overall a great chapter. But this whole Theory of there being an afterlife in Attack on Titan is utterly ridiculous and extreme coping.

The afterlife thing was completely garbage and was easily the worst part of the chapter.

I believe that afterlife exists. It has nothing to do with paths, titan powers or religions. It is just afterlife, where souls of dead soldiers may find a peace. The world of SnK was always "cruel but also beautiful". Cruel - because innocent people die, but beautiful - because there is still a hope for happiness for their souls.

the birds...work for the bourgeoisie

I hope it's all symbolism but these "dead people" motive have been weirdly often mentioned in the story. People asking Erwin if he thinks that "dead have no regrets" in season 1. Levi Ova called " No regrets". Erwin asking Levi if he thinks that dead are watching them in S.3. There is also role Valhalla plays in Ragnarok in Mythology...

  WHICH MOMENT OF LEVITY BEFORE THE DOOM OF THIS CHAPTER WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 1,633 responses

THAT face from Mikasa was the highlight for 28.2% of you. I don’t think she’s ever been that stunned. 22.8% loved that one of Hange’s priorities was getting to ride the Cart Titan in the future, and Pieck not having it. 17.6% enjoyed Levi being the butt of a joke even as Hange was about to meet their doom, and 14.5% appreciated Levi throwing his fans a finger bone. Annie talking with Reiner about the good old days earned a laugh for 13.3% of you, and 3.5% liked seeing Levi throw shade at Yelena’s kinks.

the "what the heck" face on mikasa's face  after realising annieés feelings made my day.LOL

Levi x Yelena is cute and soon to be canon

Poor Levi. He cearly is still not recovered but his comment on being forgotten was a nice knock on the fourth wall.

Uh... you feeling okay, Yelena?

"I AM GONNA KILL THE BEAST TITAN"   "Okay grandpa, now let's get you to bed"

  DESCRIBE THE CHAPTER IN ONE WORD 1,065 responses

I get the feeling this chapter was a little upsetting for many. But then again, three over the top five words were the same as last month! Such is the life of an SnK fan. The top five words this time were:

Pain [143] Sad [56] Heartbreaking [29] Emotional [24] Sacrifice [20]

For those of you still thinking this is a cookbook, it's obvious you're making soup for your souls. Tangy, Cheesy, Hot, Chile, and YAMS must be the dish that represents this chapter.

  WHAT ARE YOU MOST HOPING TO SEE NEXT CHAPTER? 1,634 responses

Are we actually about to see the final confrontation?! I can hardly believe it, but 48.6% of you are goddamn ready for it. 17.9% still want to see Historia’s own POV (what, weren’t you satisfied with that one convoluted flashback?), and 15.5% would like to see some kind of discussion before the alliance launches into an undoubtedly insanely reckless maneuver. Also, Zeke had better come back soon or I’ll forget to put him in the options again!

girl i wanna see eren with the alliance

Next chapter I hope to see Zeke, you didn't put the option

We really really need to see Historia. She's been missing from the narrative for so long, and the flashback crumbs from Eren's memories explained nothing.

Surprises ..!!! More of them...flashback about carl fritz ...zeke ...more about eren ...we wanna more important moments and facts

I'd like to know what happened with Zeke. Is he dead? Is he merged with Eren? Is he still back on paradis? What's going on?

Alright, where is Zeke? I've lost my patience.

  WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY DISCUSS THE SERIES? 1,492 responses

Reddit maintains the lead this month, with just a few percentage points over Twitter, which takes second. A bit behind Twitter is “In real life”, which goes to show that Attack on Titan fans are total chads with social lives. Stay safe and don’t die though! After real life comes Discord, with 22.3% of the vote. Trailing Discord, in order, is Instagram, Youtube, “I don’t”, Facebook, 4Chan, the wiki, Snapchat, and Steam. Much to my dismay, this question was made multiple choice this month, which MEANS that, in theory, some of you could have ~erroneously~ voted Snapchat. Either that’s the case, or you lot are multiplying far faster than I’d anticipated… I’m going to elect to believe the former on account of not wanting to believe the latter.

  ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE CHAPTER? 497 responses

What the fuck is doing the survey corps

where is that goddamn monke

WHERE IS THE MONKE

snkpolls admins please hold me

Floch with wet hair looks cool.

Glad to see yams isnt afraid to kill characters, I was getting worried.

I have a love/hate relationship with Floch, and while I disagree with the rumbling, his last words got to me and it was sad.

I honestly found Floch's death to be tragic, even though he was a bastard, he still believed he was fighting for Paradis's wellbeing

I laughed when random Floch appeared, but I hate that his actions lead to Hange deciding to sacrifice herself.

Even though the manga it's coming to an end Isayama really gives us details which is interesting in order to understand the storyline but I'd like more action

Even though we didn't see him this chapter, Hanji's sacrifice took me from "Eren must be stopped" to "I WILL strangle Eren to death with my own two hands". Dude's ground-breaking idea of rumbling got Hanji killed and he will pay for that.

Everything about this chapter was just so breathtaking. I Loved this chapter so much it was just amazing. Words can’t even describe how I feel. Only thing I didn’t like was floch shooting the plane. God answering these just makes me wanna cry.

Also Bert mentions! We're finally going to see him soon and have a long-awaited RB-union!

REALLY GLAD I FOUND AOT BEFORE IT ENDS , I wish Annie and armin ends up, and jean and mikasa 👀👀👀 dont judge me please. It really gave more insight on the feelings of the alliance now.

WHY ISAYAMA, WHY?!

Why no Bertholdt :(

Why no one is happy?

I feel like the fandom would've broken if only an Alliance member died, so to make things equal, we lost a Yeagerist and an Alliance member.

EREN IS A VILLAIN

FLOCH DID NOTHING WRONG

Listen. I couldn't stop crying, like UGLY sobs, from the moment Hange says they're gonna "do it" and then they become all "Armin Arlert" and "I hereby name you" and then I was DONE. Buckets of tears, squealing noises, repeating "no no no" while rereading the same panels over and over again. I Loved Hange. I loved them so much. They were THAT kind of weird, they were passionate, smart, funny... I loved them, but I love how they got to choose how to die, and when, and especially knowing their death will be useful for the others. They died fighting brilliantly, and I will love them, and they will inspire me forever. Farewell Hange, have a nice time in the afterlife with all your fallen comrades, knowing you can stand tall and proud among them.

No one can force Annie to stay. But I can't believe everyone's just fine with this. The world is fckin' ending and only by a miracle they can win, there's NO WAY those people are compromised to the gravity of the situation if they're all just "yeah, Annie is a titan and she's out, let's get the other titan too because he's a kid, Pieck I thought you were coming to the ship too?", because it really sounds like they're not even trying at this point. Is this a walk in the park or the destiny of all people in the world?? :/

Levi’s “see you later, Hange” reminds me of Mikasa’s “see you later, Eren” in the first chapter. A foreshadow of Eren’s eventual demise?

There still isn't a third realistic alternative.

Hange sacrifice was the greater good and I hope the alliance makes the most of this chance, For those they have lost. For those they can yet save

Hange knows their time is near and they are correct.

There was no need to kill off Hange, felt forced and rushed

this armin/annie stuff had better go somewhere plotwise after wasting cringy panels on it that could have been dedicated to less rushed interactions between other alliance members. might as well just kill the alliance off at this point and let reiner finally die, since their chapters are such a drop in quality.

This chapter and the previous two are perfect reminders that we're at the point of no return in the final arc. While I want to see some good moments, twists, and any loose ends tied by now (Zeke, WHERE ARE YOU?!!), it's all going to be all doom and gloom from here on out. Whether Eren or the Alliance succeeds depends on how these next chapters turn out; Whoever wins, bloodshed will continue until the Rumbling ends.

I realised Hange probably has huge survivors guilt and that she wanted to die, and wanted to make her old friends proud(who are dead)

They all really cared for Hange a lot and that's sweet.

They should have a concrete plan on how to stop eren if they could

Things are gonna get wild.

Great chapter, and I'm really excited to see how the Alliance and Eren confrontation plays out. This ending has the potential to be absolutely legendary.

Half of the characters have no hope in what they are doing (the "leaders") but do that because "ThEY hAD tO" and another half will makes me sad because they dont care about eren plan really (not speaking about gaby and falco)

Hange could have exited the story in another way, I guess.

Hange's death should have been more dramatic.

Hange's death was handles perfectly and the chapter had it's fair share of humour.

Hange's death was rushed, could've been better handled. Floch's selfless death was the only high point,  and maybe LH being semi-confirmed.

Honestly, I don't hate Hange but I wish she had lived to see the consequences of her betrayal of Paradis, by putting her own feelings and morals over her own people's wellfare; for better or worse, her actions will have huge repercussions on the entire island and she should be there to take responsibility over the inevitable fallout. Even though she never tried to avoid responsibility over her choices, and I genuinely respect her for sacrificing herself over her ideas, it honestly feels to me like death was an easy way out from having to deal with Paradis' fate (SPECIALLY if the Valhalla stuff is real) while leaving Armin to clean up her mess.

Levihan is real

i expected sex on the ship or aruani huge/kiss/touch

Honestly, I'm just following it because I got used to reading a chapter every month, but the story is terrible now. Hange's death only served to confirm that Isayama intends to have a 'final battle' between childhood friends, nothing unexpected.

hope we get more from Jean

Hope we now start going into the final confrontation cause this chapter seemed setup to that.

As I've said before, I'll miss Hange. RIP you absolute legend.

Hopefully we get to see historia

Hoping for more Hanji backstory.

I don’t need a heart to live

I don’t see how this story can have any sort of a happy ending

I dont see a possible ending where all these characters can live the rest of their lives in peace but oh well

This chapter dropped massive death flags on Armin and Pieck. These two aren't going to last. Yelena is probably dead from compartment syndrome next chapter.

This chapter honestly makes me more scared for Levi because I was hoping he would get the kind of ending that Hange got. Now we just have to wait and wonder about how much more pain Isayama is going to put him through.

ZEKE WHEN ?????? I MISS YOU

I’m frustrated with the direction the story is going in. Armin being made commander, Hange dying, Annie being brought back just to confess to Armin and then be sidelined, Mikasa being the one to kill Floch, it all just seems to make little narrative sense. I don’t feel like we’re building to a clever twist, it all feels capricious and random

After comparing Hange’s death in the manga to Erwin’s death in the manga, I can safely say that Hange’s death was better. Hange’s had comedy like her complaining about how hot the CTs were and of course that line she said to Pieck, it was sad with the Levi and Hange moments and the chapter’s conclusion, and it was epic with her killing 3-4 Colossal Titans, getting scorched to death and her dead body falling until she got trampled in the Rumbling. Erwin’s was just epic with bringing the entire Survey Corps going down with him. If Mappa does well with the anime, this will break the internet for sure and this death will be remembered.

bruh my favorite character just fucking died

It was a quick way for removing another veteran. I feel that the vets sacrifice their lives too easily. They see their own existance like it was some rpg game and they were going to go back to life after while. First Magath and Shadis decided to commit heroic suicide, now Hange decided to leave this world "just like that"/ C'mon, people don't give up with their lives so fast..

Oh, and this chapter made me start shipping levihan!

characters stop dying challenge

This and next chapter are the calm before the storm. And once that storm comes, this is going to end up as either a great story or a perfect story. Also, what the heck happened to Zeke? I need answers on that matter.

At this point the only way for this story to end in a satisfying manner is for Eren to kill everyone, successfully finish the Rumbling and save his people.

Aún estoy llorando.

I feel Hange should have been given more space to make a bigger impact as a commander. It’s like, Erwin always made gambles that magically worked out for him in the grand scheme of things (for the most part and in a group with a horrible survival rate like the SC no less) but for whatever reason Hange just stuck their thumb up their butt and twirled the whole time. Sometimes making one character smart results in everyone else only being allowed to have one shared brain cell. Overall I liked Hange a lot but they were done dirty. And blaming Eren for everything? Lol Hange. You can put your clown nose on now.

Overall best leader? Jean. Best leader for this particular set of circumstances? Armin.

I can't wait until the Alliance realize their futile efforts and come face to face with the reality that, Eren has power over the memories of all subjects of Ymir and can control their titan shifting.

Isayama just want to kill everyone,isn't he? In every chapter we've got deaths this is just depressing. Isayama I respect you but I hate you but I respect you but I hate you.

I cried buckets while reading it, so props to Isayama for that! :)

I cried when Floch died and I laughed when Hange died .

I don't have words for that. I am just lucky enough to be able to witness this  work while

Pain. So much pain. Levihan pain. Aruani pain... *cries for a week while preparing self for more tears in the near future*

i just want everyone to be friends again😭

Jean has not been about stopping Eren from the get-go. I think we are up for a MAJOR revelation about his own involvement in Eren’s plans.

Hange should be survived

Hange should've not died in this chapter since we still do not know the clear plan of the alliance. Their death was written in a hurry, not as epic as Erwin.

Hange was my favorite character. But, as much as I am sad to see her go, her last moments were pretty epic, I am looking forward to see how it will affect the rest of the story.

Hange wasn't a good commander no matter how much her fans cry about it. her being a good character is another thing altogether.

My babies Yelena, Pieck, Reiner, Gabi, and Falco deserve the world.

Hange's manner of death, in her own terms fighting to save others, is my favorite so far.

Hanji death was unnecessary and Floch death only made Allience look worse then they already are

0/10 no Zeke

Jean is the only one who undestands eren and Floch

Jean never really supported the Alliance, he will try to reason Eren's plan isn't all that bad.

Jean will see Flochs words as a possible option but i dont see him going through with opposing The Alliance. He made his choice when he joined them.

(THE DEAD SPEAK LMAOOO) I really liked this chapter but it’s still horrible and traumatizing like the 131 (wait actually the 131 is way more horrible 😭)

Amazing art as always.

Amazing yet sad chapter since I respected both hange and falco and to see them die was pretty sad.

ANNIE AND ARMIN FOREVER. I want her to be free to be soft and caring and to have someone who loves and adores her. I love this dynamic and I think it’s a good foil to Eren and Historia

ANNIE IS THE BEST GIRL!

I want Reiner to live on as the clinically depressed sole survivor.

i’m still broken. hange and sasha were my comfort characters✌🏻😭

Idc but your quiz suck

Idk its just i'm pretty sad about hange's death cuz she was one oof my top waifus

One of my favorites ✊😔 rip Hange

One ship. I just want ONE CANON SHIP by the end of this, Isayama. JUST ONE. Is it really too much to ask, man. I've already given you plenty of my tears to sip on so idk what more you want from me...

Only Armin, Mikasa, Levi and Reiner will survive.

OUCH

Please stop making Levi suffer be it a final rest or a peaceful life anything PLEASE

Please, don't let anyone else die :(

Plot wise it was shit, but I love it for the drama

POGGERS

Poor Levi. Everyone important to him was taken away. Also, HANGE GOAT.

Poor Reiner.

rest in peace Hange "nonbinary icon" Zoe

rest in peace king, now is in Eren hand to keep giving meaning to your life

Really was good. Hange went out in a great way.

Surprised Floch didn't end up killing anyone, especially no named engineers, Yelena or Connie.

The way Mikasa shot the grappling hook at Floch’s throat was like how Levi killed an MP by shooting their throat during Uprising. Ackermans can access the battle experience of other Ackermans through Paths – Mikasa learnt that move from Levi.

I would think that this chapter should have gotten into more interactions between Armin and Annie, because i feel as though their relationship should be explored a bit further. Given that we know that both do like each other, it should be seen on how these two handled their possibly last goodbyes.

I'm just gonna let it flow

I'M NEVER GETTING OVER HANJI'S DEATH

Hange is one of the most well-written characters of a manga abounding with them. I love the way they always stayed true to their ideals without wavering, despite all their doubts about their suitability as Commander. Their open-mindedness, humour and love for knowledge make them truly special, and their most quintessential line must be this one from chapter 127: "'Just bringing freedom to this island is enough for me'. Do you think a single one of [the dead Survey Corps] would be so narrow-minded as to say that?" Chills. Very glad they chose Armin as their successor as well before taking down the colossals. They will be missed.

I'm quite curious about Armin's next moves. He is the commander now after all. Also, wondering what Levi is going to do now.

I'm really curious about the weapon that Yelena brought up to the alliance

i get the feeling that annie has had all the closure she needs and she’s gonna die but at least she might pass on her power to gabi ? either way i’ll be devastated to see her go

I HATE it that Hanji had to die, but loved the way she got her heroic moment. It's a love/hate chapter for me.

I have fears of Annie to die

I hope Levi lives just so he can be the most tragic character in AOT.

I hope soon, eren can stop all of this thing

I it wasn’t for the spoilers, Hange’s death would have break my heart.

I just hope Levi found his peace and die, please. He's already lost Hange, please don't make him suffering more.

I just thought it was impressive that this was one of the three moments in the whole story that actually made me ugly cry (Other two were Hannes' death and Serumbowl)

The more i think on Hanges death the more i like/understand it.

The sad looks on Levi and Hanji's faces are enough to say thousands of unspoken words. Nuff said.

Reiner is immortal

reiner looked hot af

This beast of a man, how many hours did he spend nearly drowning with a wounded arm? I got to really care about him even if his ""political"" choice was the worst. I just wanted him to have a dignified end and he had (even if Jean wasn't the one to do it). And the vignette... Perfect. In the end, he really fought as the devil he needed so much, no matter their identity. Relax, honey. Now you're safe from Eren's bullshit.

i miss hanji

I need HISTORIAAAA

I need more PATHS and I smell it coming

...i´m tired.

The Survey Corps never actually fought for humanity prior to the Rumbling, only against it. Hange even states this irony in chapter 89. The "well, the Corps was always fighting for humanity" rationalization is just disingenuous cope that ignores everything that got revealed with the basement and, by extension, the plot itself.

Super based

I really just want to see how this ends already.

I still can't believe Hange died. And to think that Levi's got no one else in his life anymore breaks my heart. I've always think that Levi and Hange should be together until the end. Not shipping them tho. I don't if it's platonic or romantic,but they love and care for each other. And Levi realising that his only friend is going to die and his eyes turn dark like an abyss really makes me feel like broken in half. And that dedicate your heart scene..oh my god I can't. And Hange still got some nerves to joke around at time really made me goes "HANGEEE-SANN!!"༼;´༎ຶ ۝ ༎ຶ༽

Floch's final moments were sorely needed to remind us just how human he really is. He didn't care about ruling the country or destroying the alliance. All he wanted was for his people and the island to survive, and he felt the alliance was putting that in jeopardy so he did what he thought he had to do.

Isayama keeps killing my favorite characters

I liked the chapter but it felt unnecessary Floch probably should have died before the boat left and Hange was killed off to lighten the cast and make Armin commander.  Hange and Levi probably could have died/stayed in the forest.

R.I.P. in horny titan jail

I like this manga. Very much so ❤

[magireco]

ive never played/watched magireco but do you think the large cast is a part of iroha just being seen as “madoka 2” ?? ive never touched the thing because from what i know its much darker than the original anime, but i do know there’s like 20 thousand megucas in the game and each of them has their own story, so there’s plenty of characters that could be seen as more interesting. theres also the fact that a lot of people dont like gacha games (and magireco, other than being one, is sexualized quite a bit so that probably makes people steer away from it as well, but that’s another topic) and magireco NA no longer exists anyways so it’s harder to actually understand the new content, plus as far as i’m aware season 2 of the magireco anime has not been confirmed to be planned? correct me if i’m wrong on that though

hi!! i have a lot to cover with this ask, so i’m going to answer your questions as neatly as i can in a fun little numbered list. read under the cut!

1. what do you mean by large cast? if you’re talking about how there’s more characters in the game/anime than in the original series, then i don’t think that really has anything to do with iroha. it might just be to garner fans’ collective interest since the original anime hit it off so hard. also, it’s just really hard to please huge collectives of people, especially really critical anime fans... *shiver.*

2. i think iroha bearing a similar resemblance to madoka was used to draw old fans back in, as well as living up to the tradition of all “main character” magical girls having pink hair. iroha and yachiyo were probably meant to resemble madoka and homura at least design-wise, and also seeing iroha, madoka, and homura together in one image is visually appealing; the colors and the familiar faces next to a new face are nice to look at.

3. magia record is not nearly as dark as the original series! in the anime, there are no main-cast deaths. this does not inherently prove that a show isn’t dark, but literally, the only onscreen death is of yachiyo’s friend from her original team, and that was in a flashback... rather than slowly losing characters as the story goes on, it starts off with iroha alone, then she meets other magical girls and they form a team, etc. i go on about this on my blog bc, once again, in my opinion, magia record has much more hopeful undertones and actually gives the girls a chance to, well... live. it’s an alternate timeline(that madokami can’t interfere with, there’s lore to that) wherein glasses homura is the homura featured(she actually gets a lot of character growth in the game), the main quintet is all together, the mikazuki villa crew really are just the found family trope combined in a little package. 

4. there are a few reasons for there being a lot of characters in the game, one of them being that they literally adapted every spinoff into the game. oriko magica, tart magica, suzune magica, kazumi magica... all those characters are there. then they added a bunch of side characters, which, i dunno? there are some side characters i really like and others i just kind of don’t really care about. but they really grow on you! .... most of them. 

5. yeah, blegh. the game certainly has its flaws(the whole series does, but that’s another ask for another day). the anime is much, much less fanservicey though! i have my gripes about the designs and i certainly have my gripes about the way the characters are drawn sometimes (looking at you, swimsuit mami artist), but with me being an experienced gacha player (unfortunately) that was just something i decided to put up with in exchange for a fun story. i can see why people might get the misconception that the anime is just as sexualized, though. i don’t like the main characters’ designs that much, honestly... they all show too much skin, so i agree. weird.

6. season 2 was confirmed! 

7. NA was discontinued right after the first arc of the series. disappointing (oh, i could go on), but we got to see a lot of iroha’s character development in the story.

8. what i was really trying to get across with that post was really just to gripe about in-fandom stuff. there are plenty of other characters that could be seen as more interesting than iroha, especially considering the mikazuki villa girls are all so varied, but that’s kind of how it is with every series, honestly. there’s always going to be one character that seems less interesting compared to other ones. i just kind of realized that iroha gets the short end of the stick compared to the other girls. not only because of her resemblance to madoka, but because of her perceived blandness and the lack of people who care to analyze why she might act that way. her pink motif and gentle, kind demeanor translates as “madoka copy” in people’s heads, and, y’know, it translated like that in mine the first time i saw her, too. but, when you actually think about her arc aside from her resemblance to madoka in several different ways, you get a really interesting and special character; just as special as the others! there was a similar issue with madoka, honestly, with people brushing her off because she wasn’t as “emotionally deep” as the rest of the quintet, even though that’s not true at all. i think it’s unfair that people will brush off a character just because they’re nice; that they’ll reduce characters like iroha and madoka to their cuteness and kindness only and not analyze the rest of the details that they have intentionally(or sometimes unintentionally, y’know how anime writing can be) been written with! 

...but then again, i’m biased in my own way, admittedly. i relate to iroha (i really just made that post because i was thinking about how i’ve never seen someone touch on how her memory gaps affect her), and i just wasn’t seeing any coverage on it, so i thought, someone has to do this! i also just... don’t see people who coin themselves as “iroha fans” very often? she’s one of the characters who is there, but usually not deemed interesting enough for someone to be a superfan of. i’m probably hypocritical, considering homura akemi is my favorite character and she’s pretty popular in the fandom, but what i said is more of an observation than an accusation anyway. i had similar feelings with madoka, but i haven’t gone on a proper ramble about that yet. 

...these characters also aren’t real people, so i’d say i probably shouldn’t go on such long rambles about them, but i really do feel like they reflect a lot of real life experiences sometimes. like, me connecting to iroha’s struggles is something that connects her character to an actual experience. however, like i said in my original post, i am very much an overanalyzer, and i tend to take concepts and just run with them, especially when something stands out to me. this is also just a magical girl show, so i’m really not taking anything that personally. 

also, to clear anything up, the original post wasn’t meant to come across as me being angry, per se, at people who think iroha is boring, it just kind of ticks me off that she’s brushed off so quickly in the larger fandom because of her demeanor. this doesn’t really apply to people who aren’t into the series at all yet, because i’d literally also think “okay so we have madoka, and madoka with a hood” if i were in your shoes! also, people are allowed to dislike characters for no reason. i’m just silly and go on long defensive rants over the sad magical girls, and would probably be sad if people didn’t like iroha because of the reasons i mentioned. 

all in all, i do reccomend magia record very much if you can get past the sexualization of the gacha cards and the, um... poorly designed outfits. because the NA server has been shut down, there are channels on youtube that graciously upload videos of the in-game stories as well as side stories! in the game, there are sometimes entire side stories for characters’ outfits. because it’s a gacha game, there are events and such, and the event stories i’ve seen and/or read (most of the ones i’ve read have to do with homura though) are a lot of fun. i reccommend checking out muffinrecord’s channel if you’d like to read any of the stories (hopefully you’re the type of person who can sit and watch live2d models move around with boxes of text on the bottom for 25 minutes like me). they have everything sorted into playlists in that section of their youtube. of course, i also reccomend watching the anime, if you’re interested! the animation is polished and nice, even if the story is a little hard to follow at times. but if not, that’s okay too. 

thank you for the ask, and i hope i could clear some things up for you!

[thestupidhelmet]

pollotitus said in response to this post:

I find myself of two minds on it. On one hand, I don’t think it’s necessarily OOC at that point because I don’t think the other girl is anything more than a prop used as a kind of leverage. I wouldn’t call it great writing, but I can see Hyde playing tip for tap at the stage. The problem is the setup for the whole storyline is so weak. Seemingly all of Hyde’s paranoia is brought on by Kelso, not Jackie, so it does not come off as genuine. On the other, I am not sure how we’re supposed to see the whole thing. It’s so baffling to me that the writers try to compare the two screwups. They play at the idea that Jackie didn’t really do anything wrong with Hyde admitting he acted poorly, but the story shows otherwise with Jackie, as you say, having to ‘win’ him back and go first in their makeup. So the power-balance is restored, thus rendering it kinda pointless aside from giving them a cliffhanger aside from Kelso getting over it. He could have done that on his own. The whole thing actually reminded me a little bit of when Kelso tried to blame Jackie for his cheating because she made him feel bad. Like… did I miss something here?

You didn’t miss a thing. It’s simply bad writing.

For me, the almost pathological passive-aggressiveness given to Hyde’s character in season 5 is an OOC element introduced to manufacture conflict. The writers clearly didn’t trust Hyde had enough issues to create conflict organically. That new characterization greatly intensifies his capacity for cruelty and maliciousness, the likes of which we hadn’t witnessed before that season (save during “Ski Trip” [1x13]).

Hyde’s behavior toward Jackie in “The Kids Are Alright” (6x01) -- when he kisses her passionately, seemingly accepting her choice of him, only to leave with Raquel -- is a prime example of this passive-aggressiveness and cruelty. This characterization makes Hyde less likeable and was totally unnecessary. He’s complex enough without having integrated and passing on the abusive behavior of his parents.

In fact, his characterization prior to season 5 shows him consistently behaving contrary to his mom’s abuse. He’s protective of the vulnerable, to the point of putting his own life in danger. He doesn’t have to like or know a person to give aid; that they need help is enough. But he often disguises his motive for giving help, or that he was helping at all, as a way of protecting himself. He either consciously believes or unconsciously feels in his gut that his compassion could be used against him. His mom and/or dad likely did.

In “Black Dog” (5x09), after Kelso shoots Hyde with a BB gun, Hyde justifies faking a semi-serious injury to Donna and Eric. At the end of this dialogue, he says, “So I’m gonna punish him the way my parents punished me.“

This is the instinct Hyde acts on toward Jackie, too, at the end of season 5 and the beginning of season 6. But when his mom verbally abuses him in “Career Day” (1x18), he doesn’t exact revenge. He walks away from her. In “Eric’s Stash” (2x12), after Eric accuses Hyde of stealing his money, Hyde expresses his anger and feelings of betrayal directly. After Fez accidentally breaks the taillight of Hyde’s car in “Leo Loves Kitty” (4x18), Hyde is angry but doesn’t act out. Instead, he demands Fez pay for a new taillight.

Perhaps most significantly, in “Hyde’s Father” (3x03), Hyde speaks his mind to his reappeared absentee dad, walks away several times, then confronts him angrily (after some prompting from Kitty). If Hyde doesn’t behave passive-aggressively or cruelly toward his dad, I don’t believe for a second he’d to the same to Jackie. He would walk away. He would angrily confront. But he would not do the things he does in “You Shook Me” (5x22) or “The Kids Are Alright”.

That’s why the writers introduced a malicious, vengeful streak into his character during season 5: to set up that Hyde would behave contrary to his previous three-plus years of characterization. They even acknowledge this in “You Shook Me” during Hyde’s exchange with Roy:

Hyde: I told Jackie I don’t want her hanging out with Kelso! I walk in, they’re playing couch-Twister! And I don’t know if something just happened or something was about to happen, but you know what? I don’t care anymore!

Roy: Have you talked to her?

Hyde: No! Come on, man, I’m done talking! I’m just glad I saw them. Now I can be the bigger person and bail before she does.

Roy asks, “Have you talked to her?” because real!Hyde would have. Hyde also indicates that he’s going to walk away from his relationship with Jackie, which would be in-character, too, but he doesn’t. He sleeps with another woman as revenge, as a screw-you! to torpedo his relationship with Jackie and make sure she won’t take him back -- in case he’s “too weak” (i.e. too in love) to stay broken up with her.

Despite my dislike of Hyde’s new characterization in season 5, however, my fic Hyde’s Long Way Home probably wouldn’t have been written without it. His capacity for cruelty is a key part of that story. Season-4 Hyde likely would’ve gotten out of the time-loop at lot sooner.