#and he doesn't understand why aaron is the way he is with andrew

[worthlessandembarrasing]

I need everyone to understand the potential of a The Darjeeling Limited inspired aftg AU where Neil, Aaron and Jean go on an extended roadtrip and bond over their individual existential crises

Like maybe Neil suggests the idea as a way to cope with his loneliness and potentially strained relationship with Andrew after his graduation, and he invites Jean because he's recovering from a motorcycle accident so he doesn't have anything going on. Not entirely sure how to bring in Aaron but he's there because he's freaking out about Katelyn being pregnant, but he's also trying to keep it a secret from Neil because he thinks he'sgonnatellAndrewand *gunshots*

*whispers* I feel like @sapphoherselz would see the vision but I'm delusional so idk

[shouts-into-the-void]

Just read screenshots of the Aaron extra chapter and I have so many thoughts, so here they are:

It's always so funny to me to be reminded of the fact that the animosity between Aaron and Neil is mostly one-sided. Like, Neil finds Aaron frustrating, but all the antagonistic stuff he does to him is ultimately in service of helping him in some way and while he's angry when Aaron provokes him, he otherwise regards him with disinterest and even expresses the desire to see what he's like when he's relaxed and enjoying himself during the party with the Vixens. Meanwhile Aaron just really hates that man.

I really appreciated Nora using this chapter to clear up some of the gripes a lot of the fandom has had with Aaron's character in the past and confirm that Aaron's comments to Nicky have to do with his cousin making graphic and unwanted sexual advances on their teammates, and his accusations towards Neil were from a place of concern for his brother. I also liked that it was pointed out that of course he would have at least some internalized homophobia due to being raised by religious zealots in a conservative area, but is unlearning it due to Nicky.

On a similar note, I'm glad that we were provided the context that Nicky's inappropriate behavior is a defense mechanism to weed out people who might hurt him rather than legitimate advances, because I think the fandom tends to forget that he is also a character with extreme trauma written outside of the "perfect victim" stereotype. His actions aren't okay, but the entire point is that they are the result of what he's had to endure just like every other member of the team

The implication that Andrew specifically signed with the Foxes so Aaron could go to college

Aaron and Andrew have the same nervous habit of picking at loose thread

It causes me physical pain to see Andrew clearly trying to open up to Aaron about his self-harm, but because his way of communicating is less straightforward (he doesn't lie, but he because he stuggles to confront and be open with his emotions, he presents the truth in flowery, vague language) and because the two dont really know or understand each other, Aaron can't fully grasp the implications of what he's saying

On the subject of things that cause me physical pain: baby Aaron telling his mom that he wanted to be a neurosurgeon like the people on TV and her laughing and saying he'd never make anything of himself. Fuck Tilda Minyard, all my homies hate Tilda.

Andrew is so uncomfortable, someone Get Him Out of There.

Going off that and his nervous habits (that Aaron mentions he did often enough to be noticable as a habit premedication), I am highkey wondering if the reason Sober Andrew doesn't talk to anyone outside Neil is because he's just. Socially Awkward.

We get a little bit of insight into Andrew's "misogyny" (I personally think distrusting certain people as a result of extreme personal trauma is a little bit different than just being sexist, in the same way women distrusting men because they're used to being harassed and belittled isn't misandry, but that's up to your personal opinion) and that his distain for Katelyn comes from the fact that he thinks she's stringing Aaron along and will turn out to be awful like his previous girlfriends (there's also a notable implication that Aaron has the same self-destructive tendencies as Andrew, and may be why he went out of his way to get him into college and on the straight-and-narrow) also see that this extends to Bee as well despite their close relationship, with him being so afraid that she'd reject him for being gay that he can't even look at her while talking about Neil, probably made worse by the fact that she's a maternal figure for him, which is where this trauma response originates.

Aaron is the only person on the team who's aware that Andrew hasn't slept with Neil, and the only one to grasp the significance of the fact that they've gotten close to that point already despite Andrew's trauma, outside of Renee

It was overall really interesting to see inside Aaron's head (I actually wouldn't mind a book from his perspective, he has a similar way of thinking to Neil but much more grounded) and to see Andrew through the lense of someone who just views him as Just A Guy

[bisexualchaosdemon]

His Brother's Real Laugh

(A look at Andrew and Aaron pre 'It runs in the family')

A little over three years after graduating from PSU, Andrew gets a call from Aaron. It isn't one of the scheduled times they usually have calls, but Aaron is calling to see if Andrew can visit soon. Andrew is in the car before he has even hung up, never mind that his twin lives two states away.

Unsure of how to react to Andrew appearing his doorstep mere hours after Aaron asked him to come, Aaron points out that he is meant to be at practice with his fancy Pros Exy team. Andrew flipped him off and didn't bother with a proper greeting either, "What's wrong?"

"What?" Aaron frowned, confused. "Nothing is wrong."

"Something must but up if you couldn't tell me on our normal brotherly bonding call." Andrew insisted.

"It wanted to speak to you in person, but nothing's wrong," Aaron sighed. "Just come in, I'll make coffee."

"If you try to give me decaf again, I'm going to kill myself on your wife's nice white rug." Andrew warned.

Aaron laughed as he led the way to his small kitchen. "I made sure we had regular coffee when you said you were coming and hung up,"

Andrew nods and watches Aaron make their coffee. Katelyn doesn't appear to be home, but it's not unusual for their schedules to shift out of sync with their medical school graduation now less than a year away. And Aaron didn't look upset or hurt at all; just a little nervous.

Andrew allowed his brother a moment to collect himself, just until they sat down with their drinks. "What's going on, Aaron?" He asked again.

"Kate's pregnant," Aaron answered at last.

Oh. Andrew had not been expecting that. He didn't react outwardly, unsure what reaction was appropriate here.

"Is this good news?" He asked.

"I think so?" Aaron shrugged. "I've spent the last week freaking out, in all honesty. We are meant to finally be starting our careers now so the timing isn't ideal, and after everything with Tilda... But, I think it's good, yeah. I think I can do this, if it's Kate I'm doing it with."

"If anyone can pull off becoming a doctor and a mother in the same year, it's Katelyn." Andrew acknowledged. As much as he had hated Katelyn at first, he had come to understand why Aaron loved her over the years. They weren't besties, but Andrew had been Aaron's best man when they got married.

"She is a force of nature," Aaron smiled into his coffee. The twins have never, and would never, admit that they shared a love of fiery redheads.

"And you are more capable than you give yourself credit for," Andrew said. "I know you can do this, irrespective of timing or what happened in the past."

"I–" Aaron blinked at Andrew in surprise. It was a minute before he was able to answer, "Thank you."

Katelyn came home later on while they were chatting, and Andrew extended her that same congratulations. She thanked his brightly as she came to join them, plopping down next to her husband and putting her feet in his lap. Aaron started rubbing them without even pausing their conversation.

"You don't need to thank me for the truth." Andrew gave him a small, rare smile. "Congratulations, Aaron."

Aaron insisted that Andrew at least stay the night once they were done talking. Andrew agreed after texting his own husband to assure the silly rabbit that he was actually alive, if in a different state than when they last spoke. And that he hated him, after Neil had responded with something sappy in Russian.

It was the next morning that Andrew had suggested Aaron and Katelyn move to be in the same city after graduation. He could see the surprise and hesitation on their faces and held up a hand to stop them responding. They had nine months to figure it out, but he wanted to help if he could and he missed living in the same state as his brother. He just wanted them to consider it for now.

They put a pin in the topic there. They talked about other things over the coming weeks instead. Any high or low, Andrew listened to anything Aaron wanted to talk about. He even ordered food to be delivered to Katelyn a couple of times when Aaron was worried she wasn't taking enough breaks from studying but didn't know how to help.

So when Aaron's name popped up on his phone the same afternoon he knew Katelyn's first ultrasound was due to take place, Andrew was on high alert immediately. "Is something wrong?"

"What?" Aaron was just as confused as he had been last time Andrew greeted him in that manner.

"Katelyn had her scan today and you are calling," Andrew explained. "Is something wrong?"

"No," Aaron breathed out the slightest chuckle. "No, not wrong."

"But there is a reason you called," Andrew prompted, not quite a question.

"Yeah, uh," Aaron sounded dazed. "We're having twins."

Things so rarely went well for the Minyard twins, it was a startling relief that Aaron wasn't calling with bad news. He was just calling to freak out about the shock of finding out he was having twins when he only just stopped panicking about having one kid.

"Maybe it runs in the family," Andrew remarked. He thought Aaron having twins was objectively hilarious.

"Maybe the universe is just fucking with us," Aaron suggested with a playful groan.

And Andrew laughed. A real, genuinely happy laugh. Aaron had never heard his brother laugh like that before. "Us? No, this one is all you, brother mine. I've never been so happy to be the gay twin."

And then Aaron was laughing too. "You're the asshole twin, is what you are."

[jamiesshelves]

Parts of TSC I can't stop thinking about (after my first read)

Jean having a few minutes before Riko got to him and using it to text Renee a warning. NOT asking her to help him. But warning her. Probably to protect Kevin and Neil more than himself.

Jean viewing himself as a captive with Wymack and Abby

Jean calling Neil Nathaniel until that sudden switch (just like when Neil thought of himself as Nathaniel)

Jean being the same age as Neil, so one of the youngest characters we know

Jean worshipping Thea and her calling him Paris

Jean throwing out Andrew's candy

Jean roasting Aaron for being unimportant even with a murder investigation going on

Renee giving Jean forehead kisses

"Right person, wrong time"

Jean taking Renee's picture and it being the only picture he has

The way the world perceives Riko as a martyr after his death

The way the world brushes aside that he almost killed Neil on live TV

"The only one close enough was andrew"

Jean reaching towards the TV as if he could save Neil and wanting him and Andrew to run

Jeremy being brunette through the events of TFC

The Trojans being okay with their plan for the foxes game because they knew they'd lose to the ravens eventually anyway

Jeremy living at home and having an estranged family situation

Jeremy having a butler he loves and trusts more than his family

BarkBark

Jean's promise to Kevin

Jean calling Kevin a "beautiful boy"

Both Jean and Jeremy trusting Kevin whole heartedly

Kevin giving truths about the nest to Jeremy

Kevin admitting to sticking to Andrew like glue because he didn't know how to be by himself after the nest

The coaches concern as they realize the way raven coaches treated Jean

The rumors about Jean and that Neil never thought of them

Jean being confirmed a bi king and simping over everyone except canon beautiful Neil

Jean probably not simping after Neil because he's the partner that could've been, aka a brother/safe space he never got

Jean not realizing why top surgery scars, and his abuse scars, would be seen differently

Jean not understanding why Trojans can pick their own clothes, food, majors, etc

Andrew letting Neil go to the FBI in California without him because he trusts his runaway to come back

Neil's immediate response to hearing about Greyson is hiring a hitman

Neil sassing the FBI

"I guess Drake wasn't a biter"

Neil telling Jean he can lock his door if it makes him feel safe but he doesn't have to worry anymore

Cat wanting to teach Jean to ride a motorcycle

"Kevin has earned the right to be"

Jean being afraid to ever teach anyone French again

Jeremy hiding from the police

Elodie

"That's putting it mildly." WHAT THE FUCK STUART.

Jean's list.

Jean still texting Renee

The reason the Trojans stay so positive

"I'm not safe with you anymore"

The parallels between Jean and Neil

Jean thinking he never got anything he didn't deserve

Jean only having a carry on bag like Neil

Wymack giving Jean money and his note

The Trojans giving Jean forehead kisses

Jeremy being into Jean but wanting to allow Jean to be able to heal first

Honestly more but this is enough for now lol

[ifitmeanslosingyouthenno]

hold on (you must be hurting)

day 15 whumptober prompt: childhood trauma | painful hug | “i did good right?”

david was tired of his kids having to confess their darkest secrets for the entire world to judge and know and scrutinize

first it was the twins during aaron's trial, now it was neil for nathan's

it was fucking unfair to have his kids have to relieve their nightmares for the sake of proving they were only trying to save themselves

at least, with the twins, they had their small and unconventional family, they had nicky, they had their respective partners, they had betsy (andrew had betsy)

david could at least breathe knowing that they had someone to rely on, someone who could hold them up when they felt like falling, someone who could get them back together after it was over

after aaron was declared innocent thank fuck

david can't have the same reassurance about neil

not after his resident danger magnet decided he didn't want anyone with him during the trials up in dc, not even andrew

something that andrew obviously didn't appreciate

but david tried to understand him, even if his motives are stupid, tried to understand how hard it is for him to relieve every one of his father's crimes he remembered, tried to understand how he didn't want them to look at him and see his father, or worse, see his father's son

he was going to be there for the kid when he got back and innevitably broke down, when he forced his exhausted body on the court to get all that stress out until he couldn't go any longer

he was going to make sure both him and andrew were okay and well and safe

at least that was his plan until the redhead himself calls him one night before he's meant to return, voice shaky and smaller than he has sounded in years

"hi coach, i know it's kinda sudden, but can you come to dc tomorrow?"

it brings back harsh memories, of a new years eve turned sour in the form of a beat up neil, of a marked neil against his will

"what time do you want me there kid?"

he says kid out of habit, but neil hasn't ever felt quite as child-like as he does when he sighs out of relief loud enough the phone picks it up

"i have to be at the court at 8"

he doesn't have to say it, david hears the "can you be here before that?"

"text me the address kid"

david just lets matt know he's going to have to act as coach and captain for tomorrow, avoids answering why, just tells matt he'll give him a bottle of whatever he wants when he gets back

he has the decency to let andrew know as well, that he's had an emergency with one of his recruits out of the state that he needs to take care of

david knows that andrew suspects something is going with neil, but is counting on his refusal to ask for things, not to mention his deep respect for neil setting a boundary

he gets two of hours of sleep at most, and leaves just at midnight, making the seven hour drive up to DC with enough coffee in his system he doesn't even feel tiredness pull at him

neil is waiting for him in the lobby of the shitty hotel they stashed him in, a couple of too obvious feds around him, failing to pretend they aren't there to protect him

it makes david's blood boil

neil looks small sitting on a too big chair, picking at his cuticles hard enough that david would bet he's bleeding

at the motion of his entrance, neil looks up, and david's heart clenches in his chest at the sight of his bloodshot eyes and the deep bags under them. he's practically swimming in andrew's oversized jersey, and despite it not making sense, he looks as if he's lost weight in the past 4 days

neil's hands are twitching, and it takes everything in david not to reach for him and hold him close, but instead he thanks his foresight of buying him a breakfast muffin and a fruitcup in a diner he found on his way, and he hands neil the takeout bag

neil takes it with shaky fingers, silent, but his eyes speak enough in his stead

david doesn't push him

"i see the feds still suck at blending in"

that brings the smallest of smiles to neil's face, and he opens the takeout bag, staring at the muffin and the diced fruit with eyes bright and emotional, before taking a deep breath

"tell me what i've missed"

it's the only words neil speaks the entire time they're in that hotel lobby or on the ride over to the court, but david is more than happy to distract him with talks of practice the last 4 days

he makes sure to also let him know about how andrew and his foxes have been doing, about how they've been safe

the next thing he knows, they're entering a courtroom, mood somber and cold and wary

david sees the change in neil, sees the way he doesn't seem like he's there at all, but somewhere else entirely, and he talks over the things he's been and the horrors he's lived through as if they happened to someone else, as if it doesn't affect him still

if nathan wesnisnki and his circle weren't dead, nothing would stop david from going after them himself, not after everything they put neil through, not after they hurt him as bad as they did, not after they tortured him as a literal fucking child

he can't ever imagine being so cruel, being such a fucking piece of trash as a human, that you willingly abuse and torture and almost kill your own fucking child

he wouldn't imagine killing your child's mother in front of them, just for daring to want to get a chance at a better life, away from violence and crime and everything the wesninski and moriyama families did

(even if to david's knowledge, mary hatford was no saint either)

he's shaking with anger once they let neil walk off that stand, looking defeated and half gone and suffering

he wants nothing more than to jump that wooden barrier and get to neil’s side as he sits by the fbi agents protecting him

he has to stop breathing when almost shily, neil looks up and searches for david's gaze, meeting his eyes just enough that his shoulder lower oh so minutely, but it's everything

they go on a break, one where neil silently sits curled up in the corner of the bathroom, one of his guards with his back to the door, and one of david's cigarettes clutched tightly between shaky fingers

david himself aches for one, but he knows neil needs them more than him, even if he doesn't actually smoke them

from then on, neil is only called up to the stand one last time, and he looks so bone deep exhausted david is trembling with rage

how dare they make his kid tell them all of this again? hasn't he been through enough? hasn't he told them enough? what more could they possibly need?

and how dare they demand this from him?

by the time they let him stand, his legs are shaking so bad he stumbles once and has to catch himself on the stand, leaving the judge to stare at him with pity

where was that pity when they were forcing him to retell the worst moments of his life?

the moment the judge announces that nathan wesninski is found guilty of first degree murder of at least 34 people, at least the same amount of kidnappings, torture, fraud, withholding information from a federal investigation, and many other things, david is sprinting towards the flimsy doors separating him from his kid

he has no idea what neil needs right now, but whatever it is, he's going to be by his fucking side, he's not letting these bastards torture him any longer

neil is looking for david too, and it makes something in him break when he looks at those eyes brimming with tears

neil surprises him when he throws himself at david's chest, all but collapsing with his arms around his waist before david can even blink

neil josten is hugging him

neil josten who once upon a time flinched away from him when he moved too fast, neil josten who has the worst things in life associated to men old enough to be his father, neil josten who has never seeked out support this explicitly

the same neil, his neil

it's not until he notices neil's shuddering breaths, that he breaks out of his shock, and pushes past the discomfort, pushes past his own walls, pushes past his hurt, and he throws his arms over neil's shoulders as gently as he can

he feels neil trembling, doesn't know if it's out of grief, or pain, or shock, but he does his best to be what he needs, awkwardly soothing him with gentle movements

it doesn't last more than a minute or two, before neil is pushing away softly, gathering his strength to stand up on his own, breathing steady despite it all

his voice remains soft, softer than david has come to associate with him, closer to a whisper than anything else, and neil can't quite stop the waver in it

"i did good right?"

and david wants to scream, wants to curse the world who has hurt his kid so badly, wants to scream at the fbi for being unable to find proof of everything that bastard ever did before it was this late, wants to scream at them for not protecting neil sooner

he takes a deep breath and doesn't do any of that, doesn't let his expression be true

he places a hand on neil's shoulder, easing some more of that tension off his small frame

"yes you did kid, i'm really proud of you, you know?"

neil doesn't quite smile, but his eyes finally soften, finally ease

david doesn't understand how anyone could never hurt his children

because they were his, even if he didn't dare admit it, even if some were the biggest assholes on the planet, even if some were problematic beyond repair, even if some just couldn't stop themselves from tauting the literal fucking mafia

they were his children, david's, and he would rather chop off his own hands than hurt them

he would give his own life to keep them safe

he would do anything for them

"come on kid, let's go home"

(he would never admit that his bond to neil was different than that with anyone else, not even to himself)

idc if it's ooc for neil to hug wymack, they're father and son to me and neil wants to hug wymack and who am i to stop him, you can pry dadmack from the cold hands of my corpse title from son by palace (hugely recommend it for the purpose of this day's vibes)

[ninyard]

Andrew said she is useful as in oh yeah she is good but neil you are interesting you make me feel something and you are different amd yeah i also think nora could have worded it better but what did renee really do for andrew? Idk i don't wanna sound mean i love renee but the thing about foxes is that they don't really view andrew as a human being so why would andrew see them as anything other than that? The only people that really care about him are neil and aaron (sorry)

I think I understand where you're coming from but personally I disagree!

I think Renee very clearly is the one fox that does view Andrew as a human from the beginning of the series. These screenshots are all only just from TRK, too! I searched up Renee's name and found all of this and I just wanted to share for your consideration that Renee cares about Andrew, and Andrew cares about her, and they are friends!!

(This is going to be long but I just wanted to share with you my thoughts on different points where we see their friendship in TRK, where we can see them caring about each other)

After Higgins calls Andrew, Andrew goes sparring with Renee for hours.

Renee talks time and time again about how her and Andrew are more alike then Neil thinks - and she talks way more in depth about it later during the "Andrew's-Gay" conversation (we'll get to that)

They talk. ALL the time. I don't know if we see anyone other than Kevin or Neil talk to Andrew as much as Renee does.

This moment, with Andrew, who doesn't like to be touched.

And then there's the coming out conversation, all of these little moments that show Andrew and Renee's friendship; them betting on Neil, how similar they are, how he trusts her.

"Neil finally understood why Renee wasn't afraid of Andrew"

Again just this - "Peace of mind". Them not correcting people on their relationship stops people from figuring out Andrew's sexuality, for his peace of mind that Aaron isn't going to find out before he's ready.

She's the only one who knows about his sexuality. He spoke to her, he told her, he trusted her.

And how much he must have told her for her to know all of this, too. She knows why he hasn't told Aaron, he's told her he isn't ready for that conversation, told her they have too much to work through. Plus, there's the "He didn't know what she and Andrew talk about when they stood off by themselves" ++ Andrew knowing she won't use it against him.

"This is what helps me connect to Andrew."

"But if you are as like us as we first predicted you to be, perhaps one day you can also come to see me as a friend." You can also come to see me as a friend. (+ them predicting what Neil is going to be like??)

And them being usual dates too.

ANYWAYS

None of this is including the cabins, or her holding him down at Kathy's show, or the fact that she's allowed to drive his car, or the apocalypse conversations - idk!!! I love Andrew and Renee's friendship so much!!!!

[otdiaftg]

The Raven King - Chapter Seven

Day: Thursday, October 5th Time: 11:00 AM EST

"Andrew hates her, you know. Andrew's not really big on the idea of Aaron's happiness, see? So if Aaron likes Katelyn, Andrew doesn't want him to have her. Andrew might smile awful bright but he is a master of childish spite." "That doesn't make sense," Neil said. "It's complicated," Nicky said, rubbing the back of his neck as he leaned back in his chair. "I didn't really get into the gritty details last time because those aren't really Dan and Matt's business, but you're family, so I can tell you." He looked over his shoulder again. "I told you Aunt Tilda gave Andrew up, right? That's only half of it. Truth is she put both of them in the system at first. One week later she changed her mind."

"They know she gave them both up?" Neil asked. "When Andrew's foster mother called to set up that meet-and-greet, she asked Aunt Tilda how only one of them ended up in the system. Aunt Tilda told her, and Aaron heard it on the upstairs line." Nicky gestured up as if indicating Tilda's bedroom. "I don't know why the hell Andrew's foster family told him, but yeah, he knows. I'm thinking that's why he wouldn't talk to Aaron when Aaron wrote to him. He was—justifiably, I think—pissed off." "But it's not Aaron's fault," Neil said. "It was their mother's decision." "That's Andrew for you: making sense since never." Nicky spread his hands in a helpless gesture. "Finding Andrew again was a turning point for Aaron in all the worst ways. Aunt Tilda moved them cross-country, started drinking more than ever, and got heavy-handed with Aaron. Aaron got into all kinds of trouble in some sort of traumatized rebellion. He took her drugs and got into fights at school and in general grew up to be a bit of an asshole. Mom wrote me about it when I was in Germany because she was worried about him. The only good thing Aaron did in South Carolina was play Exy, and he only picked that up so games would get him out of Aunt Tilda's house. Then Dad found out about Andrew and began this years-long campaign to bring Andrew home. Told you last time, right? He wore Aunt Tilda down until she agreed to take Andrew in, then talked to the courts and Children's Services and Andrew's last foster family. He met Andrew, who apparently wasn't at all interested in a triumphant return with his mother, and introduced Aaron to Andrew. That's when things started moving. Andrew suddenly got motivated. He started behaving and toeing the line and got released on early parole about a year later." "Andrew decided he wanted a brother after all," Neil said. "So what went wrong?" "Aunt Tilda died, and Aaron blames Andrew." "Did Andrew do it?" "The night Aunt Tilda died, she and Aaron got in a fight. That's how Mom and Dad finally found out Aunt Tilda was beating on Aaron. He showed up at their place with fresh bruises and cuts. Dad called Aunt Tilda over to sort things out, but she didn't stick around long. She took Aaron and left. They didn't make it home. She went over the median into oncoming traffic and wasn't wearing her seatbelt.... It wasn't Aaron in the car. Aaron was standing in for Andrew at a study session. That was before Andrew was on his drugs, so it was a pretty easy act for Aaron to pull off. He didn't know why Andrew asked him to do it until the police called. I still don't know what happened, if Aunt Tilda panicked when she realized which son was with her or if they were fighting or if it was intentional, but... It's not like Aaron liked her, but she was his mother, you know? And Aaron never got to fix things with her, never got to understand why she was so messed up or why she messed them up so bad. Aaron can't accept that she's gone. He misses her. He can't forgive Andrew, and Andrew doesn't understand or care about how much it hurt Aaron. Stalemate."

He spoke slowly, giving himself time to think and to bleach the grief from his voice. "Andrew did care. That's what went wrong."

Art used with permission by Aymmidumps. Thank you @aymmidumps!

[orange-foxes]

5️⃣ Laughter Is Infectious (The Best Medicine Remix) by moonix (4k)

Five times the Foxes tried to make Andrew laugh, and one time someone succeeded without even trying.

5️⃣ A Charmed Life by KatherineF (6k)

5 times one of the Foxes sees Andrew smile, and the 1 time all of them do. Or, Andrew Minyard is a huge softie for Neil Josten and he can't hide it.

5️⃣ boyfriend privileges by mostly_maudlin (4k)

Andrew knows he treats Neil different. So why is it so bothersome that everyone else seems to know it, too? Five times Neil gets boyfriend privileges, and one time it doesn't piss Andrew off.

5️⃣ It Went Like This by eldrvarya (11k)

5 foxes that worry Andrew isn't good enough for Neil (and find out he is) and one that knew all along.

5️⃣ Not Nothing by TheRainbowElectric (23k)

Five times Neil tells someone that he and Andrew aren’t dating, and one time Andrew uses his words to set the record straight.

5️⃣ louder than bombs (i break) by mitigates (6k)

A 5+1 of Andrew learning Neil’s five spots he liked to be touched in bed and the one spot he needed to be touched outside of bed.

5️⃣ growing pains by nightquills, Ominous (11k)

Stuart knows it’s perfectly normal for teenagers to have crushes. That’s why he’s not surprised in the slightest when Neil starts acting strange; lighter, happier. However, what he doesn’t expect is for the crush to leak into his everyday life—or literally take up residence in his house. Or: five times Stuart knew Neil was hiding a nighttime guest, and one time he actually met him.

5️⃣ 5 times realisation struck Neil & 1 time he acted on it by alex_wh0 (7,5k)

"Neil looked across the room at Andrew and felt a surge of affection so intense that it stuck in his throat. He wondered how someone who had rolled out of bed barely an hour ago could have the audacity to make him feel like this." or Five times Neil Josten had a realisation and one time he did something about it.

5️⃣ Anything But Quiet by lady_flash (16k)

Five times Andrew tries to be quiet, and the one time he lets himself be loud.

5️⃣ You go your way, I'll go your way too by emmerrr (20k)

Neil tries to leave it as long as possible to make his first phone-call to Andrew. He figures the longer he can go without hearing Andrew’s voice, the easier it will be in the long run. He doesn’t quite make it forty-eight hours. (Five times Neil calls Andrew after Andrew has graduated, plus one time Andrew calls Neil)

5️⃣ reckless/i like it by Willow_bird (27k)

One thing didn’t seem to have changed since getting off the drugs. One thing almost seemed to have gotten worse. ”The next time someone comes for you, stand down and let me deal with it. Do you understand?” “If it means losing you, then no.” --- 5 times Andrew realized this something he had for Neil was, well, treacherous + 1 time he admitted (at least to himself) that he liked it

5️⃣ men, abort mission (that is the silver lining in my cloudy disposition) by quensty (2k)

The recorded number of times someone hit on Neil Josten and got nowhere, and the one time Andrew didn't even have to try.

5️⃣ five times. by redblue (4k)

The five times Andrew doesn't say he loves Neil, and the one time he does.

5️⃣ Identity Theft by likearecord (5k)

The Foxes make a bet: will Neil really be able to tell Aaron and Andrew apart if Aaron is deliberately impersonating his twin? Or, Aaron Minyard's adventures in identity theft.

5️⃣ Brother of Mine by Paradoxolotl (12k)

5 times Aaron should have realized Andrew had somebody, and the one time he met him.

5️⃣ Assumptions by Exyissexy25 (22k)

5 times Neil thought that Andrew was pulling away, and 1 time Andrew realized that Neil is an idiot. Features Neil and Andrew learning to communicate.

5️⃣ Just Because I Can by NikNak22 (8k)

Dan and Neil exchange a look. Then Dan sighs, rubbing a hand across her forehead. “Great. Just what we need. A prank war. The last time the team faced one of those, I lost a dealer, a goalie, and someone was nearly blinded.” “All in one day?” Neil quips. AKA: Five times the Foxes were pranked, and the one time the prankster gets their due.

5️⃣ hold on to let go by djhedy, fuzzballsheltiepants, moonix (14k)

Five times Andrew and Neil reunite in the wrong place at the wrong time, and one time everything is just right.

[afurtivecake]

idk maybe i think about the ravens too much but i totally understand not looking too hard at other people's suffering when you're in the same abusive situation. like, when you're in the same environment that the abuse and shitty behaviour is happening in, it's impossible to be an objective and neutral bystander. you can feel sympathy for the people in it with you, but you also can't help but think, "well, maybe if they were just a little better at behaving the way they're expected to behave, even if it is an act.....maybe they wouldn't be punished all the time." it's not that you think they deserve it. it's just that you see the correlation between their action and the result and you just desperately want them to stop doing the action that earns the bad result. the reality is that stopping the punishment from ever happening is the only good way of solving the situation, but when you're in the situation, that never feels like an option.

that's why it takes an outside like renee or like andrew to step in and force the abusive situation to stop. like i think we forget that the reason andrew was able to so easily kill his mother is because he never thought of her as his mother. she was just some woman who was beating up the only person he knew who had actually reached out to him and wanted to be in his life. had he grown up with aaron and tilda, i'm willing to bet the murder would have been a lot harder.

so yeah, i'm not saying thea was right to have been the way she was with jean. i'm saying i understand where she's coming from. thea doesn't see herself as a victim. and so she doesn't see jean as a victim. i know it sounds harsh. but the thing is... the idea is that a victim is someone who didn't do anything to deserve the way they were treated. but when you can see how someone treated you badly because of something you did, the bad treatment no longer feels unjustified. the key thing is that the bad treatment WAS actually objectively unjustifiable. it just FEELS like you did something to earn it and therefore, your brain tells you that you can't be a victim. and if you're not a victim, then neither is anyone else that you see as being in the same situation as you. anyway what i'm saying is, if anyone was going to save jean, it was never going to be a raven.

[jtl-fics]

Happy WIP Wednesday! Hope your week has been good so far! May I request TBD? I’m very interested in what’s happening there

5-1-24 WIP Wednesday | TBD

Andrew doesn't quite understand why the Junior Captain is defending him quite to this extent but Josten takes to answering any and all questions that the Captains and Coaches send Andrew's way. He looks at his phone and sees Aaron has sent him a text.

Aaron: That's Josten's shithead smile. What's he doing?

Andrew blinks down at the message surprised that Aaron would have any thoughts on their old teammate. Aaron hadn't interacted much with Josten in college as far as he was aware, but Aaron snuck Katelyn past him so who is to say there weren't other random friends along the way Andrew wasn't aware of.

<<Prev | First | Next >>

[s-exy-sapphillean]

Ok absolutely no one asked but i'm going to talk about Identically Different anyway because twinyards brainrot.

As a changeling, as a faerie, andrew can not lie, and can not break deals he makes. So when aaron continues to spout lies big and small, continues to seemingly easily circumvent deals because the wording wasn't careful enough, it feels like deliberate slow torture to andrew.

He does not know he is fae. He thought he had finally found the answer for why he was different. He thought he had just been missing his other half, thought that meeting his twin would mean finally having someone like him, someone who understands.

But aaron doesn't seem to understand or so andrew hopes, because if aaron does understand but actively chooses to do this, andrew does not know if he can survive. Andrew has known since he was seven that even though he never lies, even though he cannot lie, people don't believe him. He just thought aaron would.

They spend the first couple of years spiraling downwards in eachother's orbits. Andrew offers protection, aaron accepts it but then doesn't like the forms it takes. Aaron says "we'll stick together but you can't kill anyone again" and andrew stupidly agreeing, thinking sticking together meant just them (since he's not aware of his own nature he doesnt know how to sway an agreement in his own favor except with careful wording).

For a while, especially through college,they make more deals, small agreements and promises, each trying to asser their will. Neither of them really get what they want, both are unhappy. Growing resentment and anger. And then they stop talking to eachother.

They continue living together. Aaron wants to move out, get away, be anywhere else but he can't because they need to stick together. Andrew wants to leave a different way but he's not allowed to either.

They can't be apart but living even living together they're as estranged as can be, practically strangers to eachother.

And then andrew's world gets turned upside down by a strange redhead and he finally starts understanding himself and maybe he could still have a brother even if that's not what they really are.

[detectivebambam]

For the choosing violence thing.

I curious about your thoughts on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24, and 25

(Your thoughts make my day tbh)

lol i gotchu pinky

the character everyone gets wrong: Dan. she's not a badass. i mean she is, but she's not. she's a scared little girl who had to raise herself and has no idea what she's doing at any given time and i love her for it

why andrew would never top or bottom: actually he does both, and tends to enjoy it. kind of an agressive top but Neil likes it, and sometimes likes to follow orders when he bottoms 🫣 i think they do anything and everything with each other. Neil could be dominant or submissive at any given time, which gives Andrew space to learn about what he actually enjoys. He finds that as long as it involves Neil, he doesn't mind

worst tumblr take I've seen: that Andrew was a misogynist because he doesn't like being manipulated, and "manipulation is a woman's weapon" like how is THAT not misogynistic be so real

why did you block that annoying person?: kept saying that Kevin abused Riko as much as Riko abused Kevin. don't know how far they had to reach into the depths of their asshole to find that one, i just hope they didn't get stuck

i don't have discord

which ship fans are the most annoying: y'all are going to absolutely murder me for this but kevaaron. 1) where did it come from? 2) what's wrong with Katie?? 3) no hate ship what u want but also, i can ship what i want? and it's fine it's literally fine

what character did you start to hate because of fanon: i hate to say it but Thea. i adored her when I read the books originally, but after 4 years of exclusively fanon content i didn't like her. but i did a reread recently and adore her again so it's all good

common fandom opinion everyone is wrong about: Andrew being a sex god. Neil is his first consensual sexual partner. like yeah he knows how to suck dick like a dying man, which he learned in juvie (when he was 13-16?) but in terms of sex? he doesn't know what he's doing and he's probably really scared and nervous

worst part of canon: kevin and thea turning their daughter into a mini Raven 😔

worst part of fanon: Renee erasure 😔😔

fandom related words you've filtered: as of currently? anything tsc related because I don't have access to it yet and people aren't tagging properly. but I also have Rinee (rixo x renee) blocked because,,, what do you actually mean

unpopular character you like and why people should like them: Aaron. yeah he's an asshole and a little homophobic but he was raised that way and he's getting better

worst blorboification: if this means what i think it means, fucking riko. like wdym "he serves cunt" he needs to serve time

answered prev

answered prev

you can't understand why this is popular: kevaaron, any riko ship, riko himself, ichirou x neil, andreil breaking up in fics ?

there should be more of this: fic: oral fixation. sexual or non sexual idc but let's Freud these bitches. fanart: ANDREW WITH LONG HAIR PLS PLS PLS

it's criminal that y'all have been sleeping on: STUART HATFORD. LITERALLY NEXT TO WYMACK ON THE FATHER FIGURE SCALE. I LOVE HIM

you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like: i don't feel guilt I'm Presbyterian

part of canon you found boring: anytime they were in class like wdym

part of canon you think is overhyped: this one is going to get me in trouble so i wanna start off by saying that yes, Riko was a victim of abuse. I'm not disputing that at all. but the part where he got beat by Tetsuji and "was more blood and bruise than skin", while being horrible, was also because of Kevin leaving due to Riko breaking his hand. Tetsuji lost one of his biggest investments because of Riko's petty ego

fav part of canon that everyone ignores: Stuart Hatford man

ship you've unwillingly come around to: Kandreil lol. i didn't like it at first but idk the more fanfic i see I'm like yeah that could be cute

topic that brings up the most rancid discourse: picture this, if you will: Nora Sakavic says something about her own damn characters. yeah that's all

common fandom complaint you're sick of hearing: "it's poorly written" it's not. if you can get over the first chapter of The Raven King, the rest is actually written very well and it's so so beautiful and depicts traumatized characters in a way I haven't seen before that is very refreshing

ty for the ask pinky ily

[constelationprize]

Okay so I wasn't going to post about this because there is a kind of person I don't want to attract to this blog and I have so blessedly few followers it might not even matter but. It's been driving me insane for days.

You guys know we can't hold people accountable on information they don't know, right?

I've seen this said in two contexts: Kevin and Thea (and the other Ravens) in regards to Jean, and Nicky and Aaron in regards to Andrew.

I won't elaborate much on Jean because TSC2 is yet to be released and I expect this to be expanded upon there, but I'm going to point out a few things: there is no proof that the Ravens at large knew exactly how old Jean was (I do not personally looked that different between 16 and 18), which is a shit excuse, but is compounded by: the Ravens are a cult with a dog-eat-dog mentality. No one there had the time or the will to think "well let's consider the ethics of this situation" because they were all locked in the fucking Torment Nexus. Riko deliberately packaged Jean and the circumstances of his SA so that it would further alienate him from the rest of the team. He was offered to them as a scapegoat and even if a single person there thought the situation looked iffy, they were not in an environment that allowed people in power to be questioned, and so no one was going to look their captain and head coach in the eye and say "hmm actually Mister Moriyama I think you're wrong". They accepted the version of events that Riko and the defensemen he picked told because they were the loudest voices and because an easy lie is so much better to hear than an ugly truth. Yes they are complicit for not seeing the red flags and cowards for not standing up if they did, this does not mean that their actions were senseless or purely out of some inherent moral cruelty.

But most of all: none of them saw a need to defend Jean because JEAN never defended HIMSELF. And yes, WE THE AUDIENCE know why that was, but you cannot expect everyone to. Jeremy knew, because he was outside of the situation and already looking for signs of abuse in Jean.

So, while I don't LOVE how Thea seems to have reacted to Jean's assault, I understand why she did it. (And if Nora hadn't been bullied off of writing her, I would have loved to see her come to terms with how she played a part in the abuse of someone she clearly cares about). As for Kevin, Jean himself says he did his best to not let him know the full truth of the situation, and for other reasons I have my theories, but I will just sit back and let TSC2 prove me right on this one.

Now, about Andrew. It fucking baffles me how anyone can interpret Nicky and Aaron as deliberately malicious toward Andrew for no reason when they have made sacrifices to stand by his side for no reward at all.

Aaron's first contact with Andrew is a hopeful letter he wrote as an abused child longing for love and connection, which Andrew just threw back in his face. When Andrew is in juvie, Aaron tries AGAIN, even though he had no reason to believe it would work, and for all intents and purposes it looks like it doesn't change a thing when Andrew moves in with him! He is cold and cruel and distant and he kills Aaron's mother and buys a sports car with the life insurance money. Can you really blame Aaron for believing Andrew's motives are petty when Andrew himself goes out of his way to pretend they are? He bought a car. With the life insurance. Of the woman he murdered in a car accident.

What is more likely: that the brother with a history of violence who has pushed you away at every try killed your mother as revenge for her abandoning him? Or that he did it to be the first person to ever keep a promise to protect you?

And even after that, when Aaron truly believes that Andrew does not and cannot care about him, he makes a second deal to keep Andrew in his life. And then renovates it through college. He can't hold a single conversation with Andrew and he still won't let him go. Aaron reaches for Andrew in the only form he knows that Andrew will reach back even as he tells himself that it's for nothing.

I won't even talk about Nicky because that man left his only chance at happiness behind in a heartbeat to care for two teenagers who were all but strangers to him just because he (correctly) believed no one else would.

It's so crazy to look at this story, a tragedy about how the Minyard-Hemmick children were so systematically failed by the adults in their lives that they were subjected to horrible abuse, and the consequences of that made it so they had incompatible coping methods that stood in the way of them being capable of understanding each other, and those misunderstandings only drove them apart even as they were holding onto each other for dear life, and ask: Oh but why didn't they notice Andrew's trauma? :(

Bitch they tried!!!!! But at the point that Andrew even met Aaron and Nicky, he was past believing that the truth would make a difference, so he didn't even try to tell them; rather, as Nicky says multiple times, he did his best to push them away and make them believe there was nothing behind his attitude other than cruelty. And they still stood by him ANYWAY. Not even Neil, who has more context than both of them, figures out the truth of what Andrew went though until the literal last minute. Because Andrew, and repeat this with me, didn't want them to know, and they were not fucking mind readers.

It is so naive to believe that every single person who struggles does so openly; or even that if they do, that they'll accept help just because you, who Knows and Fixes everything, offered it. Be so for real. If there is one thing AFTG does well is portray realistic trauma responses and how people from the outside perceive them. Try to learn something from that, or if you don't want to, at least try not to publicly put your foot in your mouth so much.

[fandoms-rants]

Andrew Minyard, Neil Josten & Andriel Quotes Part 2:

(Quotes that remind me of (and/or I think they would say in canon or fanfics which I hope someone will write) Andrew, Neil or both of them and/or therir relationship)

“He’s everything she ever wanted. And that’s scares the living shit out of her.” (Andrew about Neil)

“You are the finest, Loveliest, tenderest, and most beautiful person I have ever known-and even that is an understatement.” (Neil to Andrew)

"You," he said, "are a terribly real thing in a terribly false world, and that, I believe, is why you are in so much pain." (Neil to Andrew)

“and eventually you realize that real Love comes down to feeling safe enough to be vulnerable.” (Andrew)

"I crave so much more than just a physical connection. I crave words and depth. I crave who you are and where you came from, your desires and fears. I yearn to know every inch of you beyond the surface." (Andriel)

“She wasn't sure which scared her more, the fact that he wanted to explore her depths and understand her... or the fact she was willing to let him.” (Andrew about Neil)

“Sorry I’m late. I got here as soon as I wanted to.” (Andrew)

“Me, weird? Bitch, I’m limited addition.” (Andrew Always to Anyone)

“So you’re the bitch, that told the bitch, that I’m a bitch. Well listen bitch, it takes a bitch to know a bitch.” (Andrew to Allison**)

“A friend is someone who listens to your bullshit. tells you that it is bullshit and listens some more.” (Andrew about Renee)

“my type of goth is greek goddess persephone goth: all about flowers and spring and the sun with a deep, intimate love for necromancy and death and ready to punch a man at a moments notice.” (Neil about Andrew)

“You are either on my side, by my side, or in my fucking way. Choose wisely.” (Andriel to Everyone Else)

“You want to be on my level? Climb, bitch.” (Andrew to Aaron**)

To love without condition. To talk without intention. To give without reason. To care without expectation. The Spirit of True Love. (Andriel)

“Payback is a bad bitch. And baby, I'm the baddest. (Andrew to the Foxes(Neil **facepalms fondly**))

“Most people barely know themselves. So what does it matter what they think of you?” (Andrew to Neil)

“Act my age? What the fuck is that, "act my age" What do I care how old I am? The Ocean is old as fuck. It will still drown your ass with vigor." (Andrew post-canon, post-ext retirement)

“"Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” (Andriel to Everyone)

“He ran his hands over my past, lingering over the dents and worn edges of my heart. And when I thought he'd run away like the others had... he told me I was a warrior, and that I'd never fight another battle alone.” (Neil about Andrew and quite honestly Andrew about Neil too)

“When you find someone who can make you laugh. Smile. Grow. Lust. Want. Crave. Feel. Make you mad but happy. Keep that. That's euphoria.” (Neil about Andrew)

“"I still hold onto a small, childish hope that there's someone out there in this crazy, wild world so completely, utterly meant for me even the stars will sigh, at last! in relief at our meeting." (Andrew **reluctantly** pre-canon)

"It's impossible,"said pride. "It's risky,"said experience. “It’s pointless,”said reason. "Give it a try." whispered the heart." (Andrew about Neil)

“The most beautiful part to loving a guarded girl is this: when she lets you in, it's not because she needs you. She stopped needing people a long time ago. It's because she wants you, and that is the purest love of all.” (Neil about Andrew)

When your eyes met mine, my soul pointed at you and whispered to my heart, "Him.." (Andrew about Neil, when Neil looked up at him after Andrew took his breath away during their first meeting;)

“When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.” (Andrew)

“The most beautiful part is, I wasn't even looking when I found you.” (Neil to Andrew)

“Don't put me in a position where i gotta show you how cold my heart can get.” (Andrew)

**Fyi I don’t like Allison and don’t think her and Andrew will ever get along as anything more than mild antagonist acquaintances who’s significant others are the friend of the other.**

**I don’t like Aaron either but much like Neil I tolerate him for Andrew’s sake. And yes I’m aware they are both 5’ tall.**

*WARNING: About copyright, Quotes come from various places(ie. FanFiction, Tv, Movies, Music, Pinterest) so use in your own fanfic stories at your own.. I can’t think of the word but you know what I mean.*

[ninyard]

some hc about Aaron & Matt's friendship 🥹

i feel like when Aaron found out that Andrew drugged Matt for his sake he might've spoken to Matt, maybe to apologise, maybe not, but just to say something.

imagine feeling like your brother doesn't give a shit about you, thinking that you're not even on his radar of people worth caring about, and then you find out that he did that? that he did what he did to you, but so much worse, to someone you hardly even know? and not only that, but he did it for you?

picture Matt, in Abby's place, sick and pale, sleeping most of the time when he's not a crying, sweating mess. he apologises to Abby constantly, sorry for how he looks, how he smells, how violently ill he is because of Andrew. tensions are high everywhere, people are disappointed and angry, and nobody knows how to treat the situation. are we angry at Andrew? are we angry at Matt, for taking the drugs in the first place? are we disappointed that this even happened at all?

and Aaron knocks on the door, a shy and hesitant rap of his knuckles on wood, and when he steps in the room, it takes Matt a second to realise it's Aaron, not Andrew. he doesn't even know the twins well enough yet to tell the difference, but Aaron's wearing something that shows he's not wearing the arm bands. so he knows it's Aaron.

"you don't have to be here," Matt croaks, his voice hoarse from disuse, raw from the acid of his stomach that has stayed mostly empty over the last few days. "sign a get well soon card like the rest of them."

"you look rough." Aaron says, an observation that gets a weak laugh from Matt. "how do you feel?"

"about as good as you can imagine," Matt shuffles up in the bed, and covers his mouth to try and stop a wave of nausea that hits him as he moves. Aaron looks away, seeing himself in the bed, knowing how this feels. "let's skip this part, man. i'm too tired. what do you want?"

maybe Aaron can't say it, he doesn't know the right words, maybe he doesn't even know for certain that Andrew did it for him at all. but he knows, of course he does. why else would he? Aaron looks at him, he looks at the circles around his eyes, the sweat on his forehead, and the for-now empty puke bowl on the bedside table.

Aaron wasn't even sure why he came in the first place. Abby stopped him outside, just barely knowing his history with drugs, and told him that Matt was not a pretty sight - it was hard to see, hard to look at. she told him not to go in, to leave it another day or two, or even until Matt could bare to stand up to leave her apartment. does Matt know? was he told? is he going to hate Aaron now, more than he already does, if he tells him why he thinks Andrew has put him in this position? will Matt even believe him if he tells him that he gets it? is it even worth the breath it'd take to say i'm sorry?

maybe Aaron thinks about opting for something else - some support in the way of an i get it, or an it's going to be okay, while knowing that's the last thing he would've wanted to hear in Matt's position. Aaron knows he would've told anyone that offered their shitty, meaningless words of support to him in that position to fuck off and mind their own business, but instead Matt sits there, and he waits, and he listens.

"Andrew didn't do it to kill you," he says, not even the words that he meant to say at all. "he doesn't care about you enough to bother."

"i know." Matt says, and Aaron looks at him like he's not sure how he can be so certain. "but he didn't do it for himself, either, did he?"

does sorry even feel like enough? would Aaron's empathy and understanding be meaningful at all, as Matt lay there, his energy sapped and his brain not working as it should?

i think regardless of how that conversation goes, or where it happens, or how it happens, Matt and Aaron have some sort of understanding between them - Matt is angry that Andrew did this for Aaron, that it was Aaron's fault, in a way, that this happened to him, but he knows it wasn't Aaron's choice. he sees that guilty look in his eyes as he walks into that room, and knows that Aaron had nothing to do with what happened that night. Aaron knows that Matt doesn't blame him, and he gets it - maybe. maybe Matt sees how sick Aaron looks as he looks back at him, how his mouth is downturned in an uncomfortable frown that he poorly tries to hide. maybe if Aaron did apologise, on his own behalf, on Andrew's behalf, maybe Matt wouldn't even accept it anyway. because he knows what temptation can do, he knows what seeing an addict does to an addict. he knows why Andrew did it, if anything else, and he knows why Aaron needed him clean.

i don't know where this is going, really, but i just wonder if they ever spoke about it - if Aaron ever approached Matt in those early days, if they ever understood each other in such a way that knows why they both lay or stood in the positions that they did. just a thought.

[perfecteggpartyland]

if u want answers to ur points ig ill give it a shot:

"Neil is biased." - Yeah, but it's not really a point. You can acknowledge this, and still agree with Neil.

"What about Jean?" - Again, doesn't really matter. Whether Jean is seen as a coward or not has no bearing on whether Kevin is seen as one or not. They don't even really behave all that similarly either, Jean is closer to Neil in behaviours in many ways.

"Kevin's character grows and changes." - I'd agree. Whether people view Kevin as starting the first steps in changing or having completely changed is a readers perspective however. Personality traits don't just dissappear, Kevin may still act 'cowardly' post canon. In the same way, Neil is often post-canon treated as having urges to run or to behave in dangerous ways (taking care of his own serious injuries DIY style, keeping a packed bag to help with anxiety about having to run, etc). Readers often like to explore key character traits even after the text itself has suggested they might have overcome them, or began to at least. And I don't really see an issue with this treatment of either Kevin or Neil, it's just something fans tend to enjoy doing, to explore the characters further.

"Neil's bravery had negative consequences." - You've said this one a lot, and I don't really get your point. Whether the actions are brave or not aren't based on the consequences. At the very least, that's not a universal perspective, so I'm not sure what you were going for.

"The other Foxes flaws don't get used like this." - I'd disagree. I pointed out the Neil thing, but it gets done to Andrew, Nicky, Aaron, etc. Fan work always tends to do this. Aaron's homophobia is exaggerated, Andrew's violence and controlling tendencies are, Nickys lack of boundaries are, and so on.

"Neil had nothing to lose." - Again, don't really see how this matters. Regardless, Neil was still afraid and had to push through that. And he did have his life to lose. And by the third book, the Foxes too. The thought of losing these two things upset and scared him, its shown explicitly in the text. I think people often make it out like Neil didn't care that he'd die, but it's not true. Its shown in the books to not be true.

"Neil doesnt know the power the Moriyamas have." - Just flat not true. Neil finds out the Moriyamas are part of the Japanese mafia in the first handful of pages of the first book. Long before he's had to meet any Moriyamas personally. So, by the time he does, he knows. And he obviously knows how serious the mafia is, he's the son of two mafia crime families.

I think that's everything?

First of all thanks for discussion; I mean in everything regarding Kevin 99% is all Kevin is a coward and he always stays that way; I'm all about exploring characters traits ; also I think I'm referring to Kevin/jean as both of them grow up in same circumstances and I'm wondering what makes Kevin a coward and if jean is by the same logic; also while Neil does find out that moriyamas are mafia he still doesnt realize what they can do if that makes sense ? Like jean/Kevin know riko but Neil even after roasting him on live tv and riko goes after Seth; he still does antagonize him and it still ends up destroying property of the foxes; like I think someone already said this in my anons that Kevin's beheviour can be both cowardly and understandable since both Neil and Kevin are just trying to survive; Neil's behaviour can be both brave and reckless/impulsive; since even after knowing what confronting riko does in the end and that it always affects People around him he still does it and can't keep his temper in check ; so it ends up hurting another lot ;, I think he didn't grasp and didn't care what riko would do to other People; unlike Kevin/jean who knows how riko is 🤷so I think that's a huge part as in why Neil is more likely to talk but to riko