#and fuck the terfs and transphobes for using these women to further their bullshit

[saddybildaddy]

just gonna put this out there because I haven't personally seen enough of this on tumblr

[yuri-for-businesswomen]

i have left

hey everyone this will probably be the last thing i post on this blog albeit im keeping it up for resources.

im eternally grateful for how this community has helped me through prostitution and everything, i have amazing mutuals and i have learned so much 💜

but it has become toxic. many of yall cant handle disagreement and default to being as condescending and obnoxious as possible. one of us calling out a post is not enough, we have to dog pile everyone with a slightly shitty opinion. some of yall have severely lost the plot if you ever had it in the first place. not everything is that serious, especially when it comes to online drama.

im sick of it. so many engage in the same bullshit we accuse online trans activists of. this is an echo chamber. so many just mindlessly parrot slogans and arguments. what im very sick of is seeing single tweets or posts by a nobody, usually anonymous, being spread as receipts and shit. you know how annoying it is when everything a self proclaimed terf somewhere on social media says is taken by trans activists at face value and representative of the community when theyre not even radical feminist, just transphobic? yeah. yet a lot of yall do the same by saving and sharing „receipts“ where some random person who claims theyre trans (or not even) says some fucked up or out of pocket shit. you will always find people like that online, from any politicial „camp“ or ideological alignment!

a lot of yall seem to think that debate is about winning and not like, having an exchange of arguments and let the audience come to their own conclusion

and i just dont hate trans people. in fact i feel kinship to any female or homosexual trans person, anyone except heterosexual males. many of yall dont even realise how male centered you are when you more or less equal the trans community to heterosexual men who have a fetish for humiliation and forced feminisation or whatever. who exist and are an issue and i do wish the trans community at large would distance themselves from those men, but its not all there is to it. yes i agree that we need to protect vulnerable young people, girls and especially lesbians and gay boys, from being pushed into transitioning, i think the age of consent should be put at 21 or something, but we have to acknowledge and consider that there are people who have already transitioned and will transition in the future and i just dont understand how you cant have any empathy for them. no matter what you think about transition, many trans people ARE vulnerable and marginalised. plus consider how many detransitioned women are in this community yet yall talk about trans people as mutilated and shit its gross. in the end we can only try to establish structures that keep people from self harming, but an adult of sound mind has the right to do so anyways, including plastic surgery and trans surgeries. and i want to keep my arms open to them; but a lot of rhetoric around it spread on here will only alienate them further.

right now im saving all my essays in notes so its out of my mind. i have missed the community a lot so maybe i will return at some point but i have also been feeling better since i stopped being on radblr. i miss the rare valuable input and thoughts by other women but overall i have felt unaligned with how things have been handled on here. it has been mostly negative instead of constructive and pragmatic. ive had the impression some of yall enjoy the „being in the in-group“ community aspect more than actually being here for feminist exchange. lack of nuance, lack of empathy, lack of reason. it pains me but i have more and more come to understand why people just block us without engaging on general suspicion because ive also come to be annoyed with some of yall engaging with posts - and im on „your side“.

anyways im doing okay, im going to drug counselling regularly now and am trying to establish a stable life for those of you who inquired, and i hope anyone reading this is self reflected enough to know whether this applies to her or not. bye

[velvetvexations]

(trigger warning: terf bullshit, sexual assault, cis people fetishizing detransition)

i really can’t abide by people who say terfs treat trans men “better” when i’ve literally seen terf comics eroticizing a trans man’s detransition. like, actively drawing how “beautiful” they think it is when a trans guy goes off T and feminizes his face and breasts start growing in again over top surgery scars. talking about how that’s how trans guys are “truly meant to be.” saw this years ago and it still makes me completely sick thinking about it. they’re only “nice” to trans men they want to forcibly detransition so they can fuck us. we’re not people to them, just a piece of meat for them to enact their transphobic fantasies onto. and imagine if we’re *not* fuckable? then what, y’know? it’s really horrible. it genuinely makes me sick.

(also to be clear, nothing wrong with people who detransition of their own volition, their choice is theirs and i respect that, but this definitely was not about that.)

In addition, if I may add on, it paints an extremely gross picture of how they view even cis women - how DO they feel about "not fuckable" women, anyway? I can imagine them lamenting that someone's transitioned away from beautiful elfin femininity only to be told that person is actually just a cis butch woman. For all they talk about trans women fetishizing cultural ideas of women they sure seem like they want to be surrounded by anime waifus.

But! What TERFs do wasn't even really the main point of this ask anyway, I don't think - I think the main issue you're bringing up here is that people will see what TERFs do and then still have the gall to act like that's just...what? A little condescending? It's so, so frustrating to see even second-hand, it sucks seeing people get told to suck these things up or to be grateful for how much better they have it, further driving them into the arms of people who are pleased as punch seeing trans people do half the work gaslighting transmascs into thinking TERFs have nothing but the loviest-doviest of intentions towards them.

[stirdrawsandreblaws]

As a gay man: go fuck yourself, fujo. Only a straight woman would hear gay men explain how we don’t like being objectified and fetishized for straight people and cover her ears. You can take your “terf dogwhistle” and shove it.

hi i take it you're referring to a post i made about how terfs use "fujoshi" as a dogwhistle for "gay trans man" (because obviously they're straight women pretending to be men because they fetishized the gays so hard!! right??)

so! two things:

fujoshi is specifically for women (the 女 kanji in 腐女子 means woman lol). i'm not a woman, ergo i am not a fujo

here's an in-line link to another gay man's masterpost for how the whole anti-fujo thing is specifically so terfs can use it as a dogwhistle for gay trans men

further reading on point 2:

origin of the word fujoshi from a queer japanese man

literally just a shit-ton of receipts that show the anti-fujo discourse for what it is: racist, transphobic, homophobic, and misogynistic terf bullshit

┌∩┐( ⊙` ω ´⊙ )┌∩┐

[dichromaticdyke]

long post, still a little high, might not make much sense. god. it's a lesbian rant sorry to the followers who hate that just skip if you want to lmfao.

i find it really strange how much criticism there's been levied at the idea that anyone could potentially prefer or find greater love or value or enjoyment or pleasure out of sapphic relationships.

thinking about this because i see posts about how calling sapphic relationships "more pure" is terf rhetoric or about how women aren't inherently better than men. and i don't disagree from a basic level, i don't think we should hold sapphic relationships to a really high standard, especially when the rates of abuse faced by sapphic women are higher than abuse faced by straight women (not that this is inherently due to sapphic relationships since most of the abuse levied towards sapphic women comes from men, but there is also a significant rate of violence coming from women partners as well). but ppl aren't trying to remind sapphics that women r just as capable of violence as anyone else, there seems to be almost a desire to denigrate the joy and relief that comes out of sapphic relationships, and perhaps almost a resurgence in the idea that lesbians are inherently terfs.

i don't think this is explicitly the goal here, at least not for most people. but i don't think a lot of y'all have unlearned that rhetoric that was going around. i think a lot of y'all see the vocal terf lesbians and then start to assume that most things that are commonly expressed by lesbians are therefore terf talking points. some of you really need to kill the idea that terfs are man-hating dykes and that that's the end of it.

kill the idea that any rhetoric that hates men or is critical of men is terf rhetoric. because guess what, terfs will align themselves with men if it means they can get power to further terrorize trans women. hyperanalyzing anything that a lesbian says that's critical of men or that otherwise uplifts our experiences and love for other women as being secretly transmisogynistic is unproductive and lesbophobic.

and it's strange to see this sort of negative attitude towards sapphic relationships specifically because it feels so transparent. it feels so transparent to see a relationship that doesn't have men in it and to immediately want to tear it down. no, sapphic relationships aren't inherently more pure or whatever. but if a lesbian says her love for other women is sacred, maybe she's not saying that because of some bioessentialist divine feminine bullshit, maybe she's saying it because she finally feels fucking happy and is able to unshackle at least part of herself from patriarchal supremacy and the idea that men need to be included in every aspect of public life.

i'm saying all this as a tme lesbian, and i know i'm not immune to transmisogynistic rhetoric or talking points. but 99% of what i see on this site as "warning this is a terf talking point" is just something lesbians say that have nothing to do with transmisogyny, trans exclusion, radical feminism, or fascism. and fuck, i know a lot of people have lost the plot here too, but you also do know that radical feminism by itself isn't inherently transphobic, right? don't get me wrong, a large number of self-identified radfems are transphobic, and i definitely believe many of them are using the term "radical feminism" to dilute the movement and cause more confusion and bring more people to their side, but there are a good number of radical feminists who are trans inclusive--because radical feminism, as an ideology, was created with the intention of recognizing the patriarchy as a supremacist force and working to uproot it.

this isn't to say i don't think you shouldn't be at least a little bit critical of strangers calling themselves radical feminists, you should. the movement has been overtaken by a lot of transmisogynistic fascists, but there are/were quite a lot of radical feminists who, even from the start in the 60s and 70s, supported trans women.

what my point of all this is, you're not fighting transmisogyny if you're just looking at lesbian experiences and unconsciously associating that with terf rhetoric, you're just further dividing the cause and, as i've said in a previous post, helping the lesbian terf minority by insinuating all lesbians are secretly transmisogynistic or by equating our experiences or common things we say to express ourselves with terf rhetoric is only going to help them win.

oh and also lesbians as a sexual orientation group are the most accepting of trans people. like actually. go to page 63. so when i say terf lesbians are a vocal minority i mean it. stop letting a vocal minority speak for the whole group, stop letting the tiny hate-filled percentage taint how you look at everyone else.

[themainspoon]

Yep, welcome to manhood.

There are also stories about how AMAB non-binary people get excluded from spaces for “women and non-binary people”, in one story an organiser specifically said that the event was for “women and women who identify as non-binary only.” AMAB non-binary people get excluded purely because others perceive them as men.

Let’s also not forget all the people who mark out Trans men as a completely seperate group of people from Cis men, like those who will put men as a DNI but explicitly state that their “men DNI” doesn’t include Trans men. The only reason for this I can fathom is that they don’t consider Trans men to count as “real men”. These people are the same as all the “all men are trash (except for our soft UwU wholesome trans bois!)” types. They hide behind progressive and positive language, yet they refuse to treat trans men like men and exclude them from the category of man while pretending that they’re trans positive.

Trans men are men. You cannot dislike all men but still like trans men, because men refers to all men, cis and trans. When you talk shit about men, that includes trans men, because trans men, just like cis men, are men.

Lastly, this bullshit goes beyond just the faux-progressive terminally online types. Lest we never fucking forget that the entire basis of the Transphobic bullshit that TERFs use to harm and other trans women is based on misandry. TERF’s actively refuse to understand that Trans Women are Women, they think that they are men, and they treat them accordingly.

Right now my self preservation instinct is screaming at me to contextualise this post, in which I discuss some issues relating to how men and non-men who were AMAB are treated, within the structural context of wider gendered power structures. To offer the systematic explanations as to why we all get treated in these ways, why it’s perhaps arguably understandable, and about how men aren’t the ones who have it the worst.

While those are valid topics of discussion, this post, and the original post I’m reblogging aren’t about those things, and they shouldn’t have to be. They are about the problems with how “progressives” treat men, and in my case how this treatment expands to how they treat AMAB NB people, how they treat Trans Men as seperate and distinct from Cis Men, and lastly how these beliefs that “progressives” hold about men are the same as those held by TERF’s, the ones they use to demonise trans women. I feel like I should be able to just make these points on their own, there should be no further context needed.

idk man i think that if you can read dozens and dozens of trans men talking about how their support systems abandoned them when they started getting too masculine on T or had top surgery or whatever, and queer spaces started treating them like threats or potential predators, and you find these stories going back to the 90s or even earlier, and you read all of that and come away thinking that there’s nothing wrong with how progressive communities treat men, you are just fundamentally beyond help dude. you don’t see us as people

[bikiniarmorbattledamage]

Jill Bearup (this is why we can't have nice things)

Recently we posted a ringing endorsement of the work of British Youtuber Jill Bearup for her videos exploring theatrical combat and various tropes. In doing so, we accidentally signal boosted someone with an unresolved history of promoting transphobia. We apologise for that. 

At the time we were not aware that in 2017 (a month or so after the last time we posted any of her content), Jill made a Tumblr post portraying trans activists as the bullies against TERFs, and essentially calling for them to instead rely upon respectability politics. 

(Archive here, content warnings for violence, TERF rhetoric, and surgery photos)

As anyone who follows the issue even casually knows this is, to put it politely, bullshit propaganda that transphobes of all sorts use to encourage harassment and violence against trans people. It is deplorable for an influencer to use one of their platforms to spread this kind of hateful nonsense. 

It appears that Jill took the offending post down some time in 2019, but we have been unable to find any evidence why she did that, or that she ever apologized, or what her current views may be. She doesn't seem to have approached the topic in any way, shape or form on her YouTube channel (her primary platform) or elaborated further beyond the one post that got a little over 200 notes. 

She also doesn't seem to have done anything to help trans people or promote trans acceptance either. 

Our stance at Bikini Armor Battle Damage is simple: 

Trans women are women

Trans men are men

Non-binary identities are completely valid

Trans rights are human rights

TERFs and other variety of transphobes can fuck the fuck off 

Had we been aware at the time, we wouldn't have made the post. The original post is still up, but has been edited with a warning and our stance.

Sadly, as Jill is one of the less reactionary of the few people who talk about combat and armor in fiction (ahem), we're at a loss to propose a similar resource. But we definitely will not be further promoting any of her stuff and wanted anyone who might have subscribed to or promoted her channel to be aware of this. 

~Ozzie, - wincenworks

[goblin-gardens]

cw Rowling’s transphobia - I understand if you don’t want to engage further with the topic, but would you want to talk about the ways it sunk into hp? Or is there a good post or article to direct me to? I am trying to unlearn hp’s impact on me - not your job! - I only ask because I went searching myself, and only found lists of recent examples out of her stories.

No problem, nonny! I can’t think of any specific article or anything, but I’m always happy to write a rambling bit of nonsense about my own opinions!

(disclaimer: JKR wasn’t actually my biggest fantasy influence as a kid-- that was probably Mercedes Lackey or Tamora Pierce (both writers with their own issues) and Ursula K. Le Guin-- so I don’t have much nostalgia for the HP stories themselves, more nostalgia for my friendships that included things like reading books or seeing movies together. I know these books are very, very important to some people, but I’m actually not one of them.)

OK so. The biggest clear “A Transphobe Wrote This” signal I can recall is the descriptions of Rita Skeeter. Her evilness and duplicity is telegraphed by her “mannish hands” and over-exaggerated makeup, and if I recall correctly she’s one of the few female characters whose facial or body hair is ever mentioned. One has to wonder if JKR was using these signifies of “imperfect“ femininity (that plenty of real cis women exhibit!) only as indications that Rita wasn’t to be trusted, or if she was actually.... writing her version of a transgender woman. (I think the 1st one, but still.)

Aside from that most blatant thing, there’s more subtle gender stuff throughout the books, that maybe in isolation isn’t a big deal, but when taken all together gives a sense of what JKR thinks Men are, and what she thinks Women are, and how those two things are fully separate on every level, from biological to career choice to personality.

Like how Hermione, often characterized as stubborn, logical, and rules-oriented, suddenly becomes Ron and Harry’s therapist/Feelings Translator/mom on the camping trip in book 6, cooking and tidying up and telling them what their feelings mean when she’s never actually been especially good at feelings before this-- and also she’s annoying and nags the boys in a very Mrs. Weasley way, all of the sudden, and is prone to bursting into tears-- it’s as if once she Became A Woman (at 17 or whatever) her own personality is superseded by What A Woman Is.

Or take Tonks, after she marries Lupin. It’s just like, Boop! She is so fulfilled by being a wife and mom-to-be! This is what she’s been waiting for her whole life! She’s glowing! Of course I’m not saying female characters can’t enjoy marriage and motherhood, but..... Tonks says like 2 lines after she gets married and they’re only about being married. She was wild and rebellious (and queercoded) but now she’s settled down and is ready to start her true purpose: having a baby within a year of getting married and Making A Home for Lupin, who needs a calming feminine presence in his life.

The fact that every character ends the series with a spouse of the opposite gender (or who’s dead before the books start, like McGonagall’s husband) isn’t just twee “happily ever after” heteronormativity, there’s transphobia wrapped up in it too. The fact that adult women come in three flavors: “Evil and Sexy”, “Evil and Feminine But Childless”, and “Mom” isn’t just sexism, it’s transphobia too. Because in addition to being obnoxious about who they consider women, TERFS have fucked up perceptions of what womanhood is, and straight TERFS especially tie up their transphobia with a nice sexist bow on top, so even when they’re talking about cis women, they’re weird about it.

You say you’re trying to unlearn HP’s impact on you-- that’s interesting. A lot of people talk about the good they’ve taken from the Harry Potter series, how it’s taught them acceptance or bravery or to see the magic in the world. (I think that a lot of the people who say this were reading HP as they were growing up and could very well have learned these things on their own because that’s what a lot of growing up is.) Lately this sort of statement goes along with disappointment that this thing they feel is Good and a part of their own Goodness was created by someone who they now know is Bad. Let me offer you something (an olive branch? a piece of floating philosophy? some bullshit?) If these stories inspired you to be more accepting and kind, if you used them to open new doors in your own mind about what “goodness” is and how you can foster it in yourself, then that’s a positive impact and fully separate from anything JKR says or does. You are not literally made up of your long-time fandoms and formative influences and nothing else. You are more than the sum of the words you read-- you’re also your own perspective, your own insight, and your own choices.

[intersexcat-tboy]

I'm gonna stop you there. You call "transwomen" male (link) and believe in AGP, your opinion is worthless.

Yes. It literally is. Your attempt to appeal to popularity while erasing the trans and intersex population will not sway me lmao.

You're really talking about infants crying out for their mothers while speaking as a gay man? Who would your child call out to? How does one define mother? Which one for those with two? This is before considering trans people, where one legally may be a mother but are referred to as a father.

You're actually gonna try "perceived sex" bullshit on someone who is trans and intersex?

When you think that (link) "almost no one earnestly believes 'sex is a spectrum' or that medical transition literally changes your sex" (get out of here with your compulsory dyadism bullshit), how does one perceive sex when you admit that (link) "what sex someone is perceived as has VERY LITTLE to do with their gender presentation"?

"that takes a long time to unlearn ):" then unlearn it. I stopped when I heard the concept at 10, barely had to begin with because why the fuck are we thinking about someone's hormones, chromosomes, and reproductive anatomy? Why does it concern you? Why are we expected to guess it? That's weird dude. You clearly have a LOT to unlearn as...

You think "it should really say 'sex at birth'" (link), no it shouldn't. It should say "if you have or had the ability to get pregnant" or otherwise focus on the actual thing it is treating. You've argued against similar language (link), speaking as if you know what trans people want.

You also support the idea of "female only shelters" (link) and think it is reasonable, completely missing the point as to why they exist. You said "the mind boggles" (link) in agreement to a TERF's post shitting on transbians who use their penises, supporting the gatekeeping of transness to only those with severe dysphoria, especially regarding genitalia, which is not the first time you've said this bullshit (link).

Seems you don't support bodily autonomy (link) and prefer denying the existence of people you don't understand, yet again reblogging in support of a TERF, this time the post said phalloplasties aren't dicks and calls trans men females. You also think that in theory "your birth sex will have no bearing on your social position any longer" is "toxic" (link), and that infants are born as women (weird). You flip flop between transphobia being real and an issue to solve, to sneering "while the ones born male and heterosexual are now the disenfranchised you should give priority to"

You've defended JK Rowling (link), implying that she doesn't hate trans people. You've argued for the "AHF" definition (link) before, and even further erased trans individuals, thinking for some reason you have the ability to discern and decide what isn't transphobic. You call something that's been around for a third of your life a "recent trend" (link) bc you only recently learned of it

You even say it yourself (link) it's actually fine to use they/them if you use it for everyone

Transphobic misogynistic cis women 🤝 transphobic misogynistic trans women

"it's dehumanizing and misogynistic for strangers to call me a person and use they/them for me, you should assume I'm a woman by how I look"

[lastoneout]

Hey so uh y'all know this is straight up radfem rhetoric that will do fuck all to actually combat the rise of fascism in this country while putting young people further at risk of being indoctrinated into conservatisim, right? Like this is 100% the basis of political lesbianism and is a direct pipeline to becoming a fucking TERF which is a direct pipeline to holding hands with Nazis, we should NOT be supporting or promoting the idea that the only way for women to be safe is to completely isolate themselves from men, especially in the coming years where unity with our allies, a group which includes men, will be the key to survival for so many people. The state of the world right now is based in part on the rampant spread of individualism and exclusion and distrust, why the hell would perpetuating that help??

Also this alienates women who cannot or will not abandon their connections to men(wanting to marry and love and have sex and children with men is morally neutral) and strips us of our ability to find allyship with marginalized men who are on our side and also will face extreme violence under this new administration. This will cut us off from black men and disabled men and intersex men and queer men and will absolutely be used as justification to completely fucking abandon trans men, who have already been completely abandoned by current mainstream feminism to the point that I cannot go five seconds without someone saying reproductive rights are an issue that only affects women when that is in NO way the case. Basically no one has been including trans mascs/men, nonbinary people, and intersex people in the abortion and birth control discussion this election cycle despite those groups needing just as much help and support on this front and that is a PROBLEM. Like trans men and intersex people who can get pregnant are going to be at a hellish level of risk going forward, infinitely more so than the average cishet perisex woman. We cannot abandon them further.

Plus for some of us marriage will potentially keep us safer or help us escape this country should we need to, I'm disabled and can't work I cannot just move to another country, but if I get married and my fiancé goes first and finds a job that can support us both that will help me. And like you can also get married to a man and still refuse to have kids in protest? Most of the people in our generation aren't having kids anyway? And tbh those of us who want to are not bad people nor should we have to put our entire lives on hold for god knows how long to stick it to the men. We live in hell right now, why the fuck should we be asking people to completely abandon things that could make them happy in a weird form of protest that won't work and is a gateway to being a raging Nazi transphobe??

And on top of all of that this also lets the hundreds of thousands of women who voted for Trump on purpose because they too have bought in to his rhetoric off the hook, which again, is where radical feminism leads because it is fundamentally based on the idea that men are always dangerous and harmful no matter what but women are always innocent brainwashed victims who can do no harm. And writing off men as a lost cause who are evil by nature and thus cannot be saved is also not only radical feminist bullshit, it's legit just conservative "boys will be boys" bullshit with a progressive hat. I am not giving shitty men a free pass to suck forever by pretending they are incapable of change, they can, should, and MUST be held to a higher standard. That is what I mean when I say radical feminisim is a conservative ideology, it doesn't believe a better world is possible because it assumes men will always be evil and should be avoided at all costs which upholds the status quo, it does nothing to actually challenge it.

(And hell, if all that wasn't enough, this is also flawed because the kinds of women who are left leaning enough to consider doing something like this likely already only associate with progressive men, so who are we even punishing here? No woman riding the tradwife MAGA waterslide is going to do this, so the only men who get punished are the good ones who are on our side, which helps who, exactly?? Like christ y'all this falls the fuck apart so fast the second you actually think about it.)

There are men who will be my allies in the coming years and women who will be my enemy. Women are just as capable of being bigoted fascist pieces of shit as men are, this election proved that. We waited for women to save us and most of them fucking didn't. How the hell am I supposed to believe women are inherently safer or better while looking at the breakdown of what demographics voted for Trump. Some of the most vile, traumatizing misogyny and biphobia I have faced in my life was at the hands of other women and some of the most outspoken feminists who work tirelessly to tear apart the patriarchy I know are men. My fiancé, a cis man, legit checked MY toxic masculinity yesterday, I recently came out as butch and have been trying to live up to that by staying as strong as possible right now, and HE had to tell me to knock it off and let myself cry. Gender and sex are not indicators of morality and acting like they are is pure, unadulterated radical feminist bullshit.

We can and should absolutely talk about the rise of alt-right beliefs amongst men in this country, especially young men, but we cannot ignore that young women are buying into that shit too and a lot of it is COMING FROM RADICAL FEMINISTS, I cannot fucking stress enough radical feminism is a direct pipeline to becoming a conservative, the TERF to tadwife waterslide is real and likely WHY so many young women are voting conservatively. The more we concede to this rancid bullshit the more women wander directly into the alt-right's open arms.

The problem isn't men, it's systemic misogyny perpetuated by both men AND women, and also fascism. Don't lose sight of the true enemy.

[my-river-styx]

A Big Fuck Off Rant Here Lads, Be Warned This Is About Terfs/Radfems As Well As A Bunch Of Political Stuff

I hate that God awful sinking feeling I get in my gut when I end up on a Terf/transphobic persons blog and I just, realise people that are that desperately hateful exist. I found a blog and was going through it, the name making me think they were trans friendly seeming as they had it in their name, only to become rapidly confused and kinda sick when all their posts were outright seethingly angry and hateful towards trans people. Like, the first few I read I thought I was misunderstanding but the further I got I was like, oh, no, they are a Terf/transphobe or align with their ideals.

I don't have a problem with people having opinions, it's your right to think and say what you want. But what I do have a problem with is you putting that vile hateful shit online where kids, trans or otherwise, can see it. To be fair, kids shouldn't be on Tumblr even after the shitty facade of a purge they did to make it child friendly. However, kids ARE on here and they ARE reading your posts and posts like them. It's how conservatives and other far right and even drastically far left groups manage to keep relevance in our lives despite most people disagreeing with them. It's through feeding kids their crap over and over again, sometimes without them realising or wanting to. It happened when I was a kid but luckily my parents aren't nearly conservative and simply hold similar beliefs in some areas. I grew up thinking those hateful things were right, and okay.

Until I opened my fucking eyes and realised they weren't. That you shouldn't feed children your hateful and poisonous rheteric when they don't understand the situations. I, as a little fucking child, genuinely believed that asylum seekers didn't deserve access to our country because they didn't go through legal channels. My parents offloaded their beliefs onto me and for quite a while I didn't even question it. The news/media in Australia didn't help either. But then I grew the fuck up and realised that I was fed a bunch of shit. That what they were saying was bullshit. That the media was trying to shove that shit into my head because it distracted me from them, and the government and what they were doing. It was to give me a fake enemy so I wouldn't see the very real one right under my nose.

Those people, all people, deserve safety and respect unless they are actively causing harm to others.

The problem is a lot of those children grow up not realising those ideas are old, outdated and toxic to change. That they are media crap designed explicitly to keep your eyes away from the blatant corruption of our world and that it is rapidly being killed. And they vote. And have blogs online where they spew their vile crap for newer generations to see. It's why I wish kids weren't allowed on this site. Because a lot of the crap on here is just that, crap. Shit that doesn't actually have a foothold in the real world or if it does, it's so small that it doesn't matter. Terfs and radfems on Tumblr have a huge foothold and use it to attack trans people just trying to live their fucking lives, not hurting anyone. Trans women especially are the victims of this, trans men less so, though it is still a big deal. Terfs and radfems are so concerned with policing who can do what that they don't police themselves.

Their community supposedly stands for women's rights (and by that they mean cis women because God knows they don't know how to be accepting) but as soon as a cis women comes forward supporting Trans women and trans women lesbians, they are instantly shut down, saying they must be an idiot or they are brainwashed. They only support the people who support them. They don't stand for feminism or women's rights, because if they did they would include trans women BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN. No, they just want to support their own little bubble and exclude anyone they don't like, just like we are back in fucking highschool with friendship groups and cliques.

For Trans men, if the terfs and radfems don't just outright dismiss them and call them confused women or women trying to escape the patriarchy, they are infantilized. They see us as women. Not as men. I can't force you to accept trans people and even if I could, I wouldn't want to. The fact you are so critical and hateful only speaks volumes about you as a person, about how you either hate yourself or are so drastically narcissistic that you need mental health assistance. Nobody filled with that much anger and hate for people they don't know and who are not doing anything wrong, is happy in their lives. You reek of low self-esteem and self loathing and I feel sorry that your way of dealing with that is to lash out at trans people instead of taking the time to listen to yourself and heal. It's not a way I wouldn't want anyone to live.

In the real world and not tumblr.hell, radfems and terfs have a much smaller voice. It's there, no doubt, and there are some much louder voices and ideas, but they are rightfully ignored for the fact they are just spewing hate. Anyone who does agree with them is normally a conservative, cis and straight. All things that mean they cannot understand the trans experience, let alone the LGBTQ one. Now, there are a lot of radfem/Terf lesbians, who loathe the idea of trans women in their spaces because "they aren't women, they are men just trying to invade our spaces and take them away". No, they aren't. I'm not a trans women, but I do know a lot about the trans experience on the other end as a trans man. Trust me when I say that trans people do not want to steal your space. They are people who want to find support and comfort within a group of people. Trans women can be lesbians because they are women. Trans men can be gay, because they are men. Hell, it was trans women who pioneered the LGBTQ movement, so you wouldn't have the spaces you do today without them. Learn to break free of your biased thoughts and move towards understanding how to be including and accepting. I don't even begin to understand every facet of the LGBTQ community. So many parts of it confuse me. But it's not my place to tell someone they aren't allowed to identify as something. Unless it is genuinely hurting someone, like pedophiles and maps (which newsflash, despite what terfs and radfems want to pretend and scream, trans women aren't. They just want to fucking pee and shit in the toilet for fuck sales).

So, this whole long 3:15 am insomnia ridden post really boils down to, is this. Try and step out of your bubble. Out of the comfort of your preset ideas on people and the lies and garbage fed to you by the media and even your parents in some cases. Try and understand others or at least take the time to listen instead of blindly attacking like a wounded animal. You are not inherently hateful. You deserve the chance to step out of your little cave and learn that the big bad world isn't out to get you. Trans women aren't trying to invade your spaces, or forces lesbians to date them. Trans men aren't trying to escape the patriarchy or are women haters, or trying to change what being gay means. We are real people deserving of respect. We aren't asking for you to bow at our feet. We are asking you to stop attacking us without reason, to stop listening to the horse shit the media throws out to defame and make us look like the villians. Because while your out here attacking innocent trans people, your getting your rights slowly erroded by a government that doesn't give two shits about you. That is purposely force feeding you garbage through the media to make you complacent and distract you from what's going on. Do you think big bussniess, the thing that bloody runs our governments now, gives a shit about you? About what you think? No, they want to make money. Your a number to them. They blatantly pull the strings of all major governments and take away any right you have to object. They are tearing the planet apart to the point 1/7 people will survive.

The planet is dying, rapidly, and if you stopped worrying about us merely existing and instead turned your attention to the real problems, we could do so much more to fight for our rights.

Your very lively hood, the thing you so vehemently fight for is not only on the line, it's at stake. They are trying to kill us, and your bitching online that a trans women went into the female bathroom to pee like a goddamn human being.

Get your priorities straight.

[feminismforlesbians]

I mostly see accounts of people who were terfs in their youth and changed their mind. What made you go the other way?

@bluegone  

I’m finally back at my laptop. 

(I had this huge essay going in reply to this and then realized that absolutely no one would read of all it and started from scratch).

I’d have to agree with some of the people who commented on this through replies or reblogs while I was away—-I have never seen someone who was a “terf in their youth” shift entire ideologies into liberal feminism. You’ll see a lot of people apologize profusely for being a transphobic cis gay before opening their eyes to tumblr dot com and becoming an instant trans inclusionist. That means that as young 14, 15, 16 year olds (their youth) they had never heard of gender identity vs sex or else didn’t know that attraction based on sex, which was their natural attraction, was a bad thing. It doesn’t mean they were “terfs”. It means they were young gay or bisexual kids who hadn’t ever been exposed to gender theory before and now have subscribed fully to it, apologies for the past crime of feeling sex-based attraction always ready to be offered up. They didn’t change their minds from one ideology to another; they simply subscribed to one without comparison to anything else. 

I actually fully engaged in one movement, then consciously made the decision to subscribe to a different one. 

I’ve been on this hellsite for a very long time. I’m 21 now and I was either 14 or just newly 15 when I first ~made an account. The mainstream “LGBT and feminist movement” on here is liberal trans-inclusive ace-inclusive feminism. It’s large, it’s the default, it’s the social justice community you participate in unless 1) you know there’s a different one you value and you find it or 2) you find a different one through the mainstream and value it (a la me). This mainstream collective has enjoyed trends such as monosexual privilege, gender bang pt 1, mogaii, split attraction model, gender bang pt 2, “q*eer”, and others. I was involved in all aforementioned and the others in between. I believed myself to be bisexual when I first started, because I knew I was attracted to girls and I assumed I was attracted to guys. The monosexual privilege, mogaii, and split attraction model trends all did fantastic jobs of reinforcing this internalized heterosexism but also created a substantial amount of internalized lesbophobia. Gender bang pt 1 and the split attraction model together also created some short-lived but intense body sex dysphoria (wherein I would find myself browsing through packers and binders and shutting my eyes while using the restroom, despite still knowing myself to be a woman) because between the pressure to hyperdefine every aspect of my attraction and to deconstruct my gender, I went through the extra identity crisis that was never needed. This is all a very compressed version of the experience, and is more of a background for the events that started the momentum to my switch in ideologies. 

The tumultuous gender and sexuality crises that I personally experienced as a result of these trends lasted from about the ages 14 to 18; I didn’t start to drift away from the libfem community until I was 20. It was not the personal crises that made me leave, and it’s not my crying about them, about my individual woe-is-me tale that makes me a “terf”. It’s the foundation, though, and that’s why it’s worth mentioning. So you are aware I am not talking out of my ass when I describe things in the libfem community, like language used, priorities made, or the effects on young and/or gay people. I’m not talking out of my ass because I was fully subscribed to it for years; enthusiastically and wholeheartedly. It was my community. 

By the time I was about 18-19 I had finally just let myself be a girl and the sex dysphoria had dissipated along with the frantic attempts to gender-trend myself so that I could make my sexuality “make sense”; I knew I was attracted to girls and though I assumed I must have been attracted to guys, I couldn’t describe how and gender-trending seemed to be the answer. I let that go, the gender-trending part, and then I was just a “cis” bisexual girl. I was okay with that; I accepted that trans people were The Most Oppressed. I knew (and still know) that trans people are deserving of safety, and health care, and that dysphoria can be life threatening. I was content with the standards that trans people came first. Trans women are women and trans men are men, check your cis privilege, and so on. 

And then somewhat of a trio of things of happened in quick succession: there was finally that “duh…I’m a lesbian” moment, a wave of gender theory craze that I call gender bang pt 2, and then I got involved in the ace diskhorse. When I finally let myself be a lesbian it was like…learning to fly. For about two seconds. I just felt free from the discomfort and frustration and pain I’d put myself through trying to convince myself I was attracted to men when I really just wasn’t. And then I came out as a lesbian on here, on this hellsite, and I got people telling me, immediately, that that was great as long as I wasn’t One Of Those Lesbians. The terfy ones. Suddenly it became imperative that every time I talked about women I said and trans women. It was with my own internal freedom to be attracted only to women that I finally saw that the reverse was true in this community I was a part of. I was friends with straight women, bisexual women, pansexual women, q*eer women, q*eer nonbinary people, and many trans people. And they were all attracted to men. And what I watched was how normalized and encouraged attraction to men was—how the “thirst” for men was being called empowering and sexy and “q*eer”. Maybe it is empowering and sexy (it’s certainly not “q*eer”), but not when attraction women was either hush hushed or practically infantilized. Attraction to men was loud and suggestive and sexual and humorous and encouraged; attraction to women was…not. This I noticed first. Men and women. And then I noticed something else. It was okay to connect men to penises. It was assumed, by nearly every person around me, that when one “thirsted for that dick” they were talking about a man and that was okay. If someone said “I really want to fuck her”, without even citing whether “cis” or trans, the entire community was on alert. If someone were to say “I would eat her out”, there would be goddamn riots in the name of transphobia. This was where I started think that it was kind of fucked up that people could be “transphobic” in talking about men and penises have it celebrated as feminist, and then utterly destroyed for talking about women and vulvas. This was where I started to wonder why it was okay for my straight female friend to talk about her thirst for men using explicit details involving dick, but it wasn’t okay for me, a lesbian, to have a sexual attraction to vulvas. This was where I started to want to ask questions about sex-based attraction (but I didn’t, because you don’t ask questions in libfem communities. You just accept, validate, and welcome everybody and shut your goddamn mouth if you don’t.)

This overlapped with the gender bang pt 2, which was a reinforcement of the gender theory that had been prevailing for a while but was more significant to me at the time. While I was now starting to wonder why people attracted to men could specify male genitalia in their attraction and lesbians weren’t permitted to do the same for women, there was beginning a larger push to pretend like biological sex didn’t exist at all. There was a push for people to believe that only gender, a concept of personal identity, factored into attraction. It was a push that made it so a woman was only a woman because she said so, and to speak of biological sex was to be transphobic. It was a push that deconstructed my womanhood and my sexuality in one blow. It was a push that further amplified discussions of “dick”, except now where my lack of participation in such talks would have been unnoticeable, it was a “red flag”. It was upsetting. It wasn’t trans people that were upsetting to me, or trans women, or trans “validity”. I wasn’t angry about the fact that trans people existed, I didn’t wish them ill or dead. I was angry that my femaleness, my womanhood, the part of who I was for which this movement claimed to stand for—feminism—was now the enemy. It was being erased. I was angry that my sexuality, which I had had barely a breath to revel in, which I had had denied to me through all this other genderist bullshit, was now treated as a “risk factor” for being a transphobe—the ultimate evil. I couldn’t say any of this, though, I couldn’t ask any questions, I couldn’t differ even slightly in opinion, or disagree with something or have some fucking boundaries, because this is the libfem circles we are talking about. So, instead, I just buried my thoughts because part of me felt that maybe I was evil for thinking that way. 

And right around then I stumbled into the ace diskhorse. Yes, that one area within liberal feminism where there is the slightest variety—I say slightest because in fact, if you openly suggest ace exclusion as a libfem, you will be decimated just as you would for criticizing genderism. However, I say variety, because there are a decent amount of libfems who are ace exclusionists but subscribe to literally everything else in libfem rhetoric. That’s where I found myself, on another tiny blog, lurking curiously in these trans-inclusive gender-not-sex q*eer ace-exclusive posts. (Mind, I am ace exclusive. But that’s not what makes me a terf. Just an aphobe, apparently). This was where I learned that, hey, it was possible to not agree with every single little thing that the tumblr mainstream declared “valid”. I had never strayed away from the mainstream because I didn’t know of any other circle except, you know, terfs, which were obviously evil—so why would I have ever bothered to look at a so-called terf’s blog or in a “terfy” tag? I hadn’t. I hadn’t ever seen anything but the tumblr mainstream all very forcefully agreeing with each other, supported by kawaii banners and not much else. Yet here was the tiny ace-exclusive corner, where people actually discussed like, concepts, and constructs, and facts, and histories, and actual manifestations of oppressions. I saw people actually asking goddamn questions. 

A few times, I would see an ace-inclusive libfem telling an ace-exclusive libfem that they were evil fucking aphobes that were “just as bad as terfs”. Privately, I would think, no, no I’m not like a terf. Terfs are evil! They want to kill trans women and are total fetishists! I don’t want to kill anyone, I know trans people. Just because I think maybe being female matters and that maybe it’s okay to be attracted to sex, does not mean I’m a terf. 

So it was all happening in congruence: I was a lesbian finally free from her own internalized lesbophobia, looking to embrace and revel in my sexuality after hating it for so long, as the community I trusted told me that it was wrong to desire vulva but empowering to suck dick. I was starting to look up and outside and thinking about asking questions just as I discovered that questions could be asked. I was thinking.

I can identify a moment that could be called the catalyst. 

I was perusing my ace-exclusionist corner, and an ace-exclusionist libfem had made a post about asexuality that a “terf” had dared agree with. There was no mention of trans people or sex or gender on either end and still the libfem said:

“go get hit by a truck and die, terf”

It was so brutally violent and since the “terf” had said nothing that was trans or gender or sex related, I thought that this must mean that terfs are so universally evil they’re worthy of fucking death threats just for commenting on a post. And then I worried the thoughts I’d been having, the anger about devaluing my sex and sexuality in the name of trans activism, were terfy. And so I clicked on that terf’s blog, to see how maliciously cruel and hateful these terfs were so that I could reaffirm my previous loyalty to trans-inclusive feminism. 

Except what happened was that I clicked on that terf’s blog and she wasn’t the spawn of Satan. I clicked on people she reblogged from and people they reblogged from and soon found myself lurking in honest-to-God terf circles. It wasn’t violent. It wasn’t evil. No one was asking for the rapes and murders of trans women. No one was fetishizing women. There were black terfs and brown terfs and disabled terfs and lesbian terfs and bisexual terfs and young terfs and older terfs. These terfs weren’t at all the kawaiied pasteled hivemind that libfem was. They actually talked about things; they explored, explained, and support ideas, history, facts, and values. It was invigorating. They didn’t all agree all the time all at once and no one was threatening lives for having a different perspective. Their commonality? In the most basic definition, these trans exclusive radical feminists believed in sex-based oppression, in sex-based attraction, and in the prioritization of women in feminism. Obviously there’s much more to it than that; that’s what made it so fascinating, this movement that had a foundation and entire layers of analyses and arguments and facts and history and convictions. 

I lurked and I lurked and I lurked and then I said fuck it, and I made a blog. I believe that gender is a social construct, that biological sex is fact, that sex-based oppression exists; I don’t want trans people dead, I don’t think trans people don’t deserve health care, I don’t think trans people don’t deserve safety. There’s more, but those are the baselines. 

So I guess now I’m a terf that switched sides. And apparently deserving of things like getting hit by a truck and dying. Comes with the territory when you decide to be part of a movement that asks questions and doesn’t deny reality. 

[morganne1313]

Oh gods….

The comments below this post y’all.

It’s this mess of small pieces of truth mixed in with trauma, toxicity, and blame.

People will in one part of the sentence or paragraph and then go on to be bigoted and lash-out-y in the next. Some people have obviously experienced some of what they described and used their experience to make a black or white about what is real or not….

Yes TERFs exist. And some of them are scary ass man hating insecure crazies who are damaged beyond words and don’t see how much their blindered hate costs them in terms of the harm they do to themselves and others….. but they are few and far between though at times very squeaky….

Some people do some of the same bigoted transphobic stuff that TERFs do… but they are not TERFs…. They are more your average everyday left person who is still problematic about trans people because they haven’t worked through enough of the transphobic indoctrination we all get to various degrees growing up through peers, family, MEDIA, and culture and trauma from bigotry against their own group(s) to not say or do bigoted shit and have yet to sort out where to see the difference between their own bigotry is and where trans people who are equally likely to be problematic and bigoted against other groups because again indoctrination and trauma and all those things that every human deals with as obstacles to personal growth and empathy, do bullshit things not because trans but because human and learning as a process too…

Basically we are all problematic somehow…. And the only solution is to listen and step back from your feels when someone calls you out. Check in with other people in your life who are good at calling you out… and whether you are right or wrong or some mix of both in the situation…. Try to fix your part every time… no matter what the other person does…..

Being trans does not make you not problematic…. Being feminist doesn’t make you a terf…. But it also doesn’t make you not problematic in bigoted ways either…

And between these two groups sits a fuck-ton of trauma and conflicting accommodations… if there is a corner combination of broken and fucked up and toxic…. Someone is sitting in it…. And the people who can’t see where they are sitting tend to stay there their backs to all the walls trying to protect themselves in ways that no longer are helping (my theory is all toxicity stems from defense mechanisms gone too far).

So I have seen TERFs. I have seen women with male body trauma (rape or abuse from AMAB) who cannot date transwomen…. Because trauma is not logical or fair and takes time to process…. I have not personally seen men with female body trauma (rape or abuse from AFAB) who can’t date transmen… in part because men report less (thank you toxic patriarchy 😡) but I am sure they exist. It isn’t right to tear someone down for protecting themselves from further trauma…

And yeah there are situations where someone who has experienced trauma uses it as a reason to be bigoted and doesn’t actually deal with the trauma…. Sometimes the same messy fucked up shit happens with race or occupation or some other defining element of identity…. But for someone who is going through a process… who may never reach a point where all bodies are ok with them… instead of tearing at victims…. Do what you have to do to be safe and set boundaries or not engage…. And then help us deconstruct the systems that caused that damage in the first place and increase the availability of systems that help heal and protect everyone. (Healthcare for all… no more mental healthcare taboos.)

I have also seen numerous trans people make decisions about their expression and identity and even changes to their body based not just on dysphoria but also on safety concerns and social acceptance. And before anyone piles on at me… I am not judging that. Social acceptance is powerful and often vital to mental health and well being… the whole “we are social creatures” thing is not small…. We see the impact of it every day in everything from self esteem to access to jobs and social networking…. Cis people make changes and express certain ways for similar reasons…. And certainly “I want to live” is a reason people get surgery or take medications or hormones on the regular.

My only two cents that disagrees partially with all of it is to say we need to deconstruct gender/ gender roles to at minimum the point where safety and acceptance don’t rely on presentation and parts and sexual orientation. Let people be themselves for their own reasons more so than their concerns about what others around them will think or do to them. Let gender(and race) and physical traits tangled up with them (sex, hair anything, weight, height, parts, etc) be as important to skill assessment or judgment of individual worth as hitchhiker’s thumb. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also, back to conflicting accommodations…. Some transwomen carry around some of the toxic patriarchal conditioning that is given to AMAB people…. Realizing your differences and going through those thoughts is not an automatic “process your toxic patriarchy and become non-toxic and non-privileged” button. Like any other deviant from standard, being trans and experiencing the gender differences can make you more likely then your cis counterparts to see subtle misogyny in yourself and the systems around you…. AFAB of varying identities including cis are not immune to subtle misogyny that they enforce even as it harms them even if they are really left and working on their shit… breaking down the effects of toxic systems takes time, luck, insight, and repetition…. It is hard ass work….

Does this mean that every time a cis woman accuses a trans women of male privilege or a transwoman accuses a cis woman of being a terf she is right? No. Nor does it mean every time either of them are wrong. Sometimes (often) the truth is somewhere in the middle.

All of us, especially in spaces that are trying to be inclusive for example “all women spaces” whether parent oriented or specifically not, need to step back from our feelings, stop blaming and tearing people whether they were right or wrong, remember that sometimes conflicting accommodations comes into play and there is no right answer only the choice to acknowledge that’s what happening and try to go forward to help both sides as much as possible, and be kind to each other as much as possible.

No matter whether or not you are right or wrong…. If you find yourself going beyond drawing healthy boundaries and protecting yourself and others to justifying blame and cruelty…. You’re doing something toxic or letting toxicity get to you and stepping on a slippery slope…. and it is time to step back and work on your stuff….

Yikes I didn’t even get into the military stuff…. Some people go into the military to survive… because courts… because jobs and training…. Because pays for college…. It is classist and privileged to say everyone just wants to be in the military who signed up for it…. Some do… some for the same reasons that people become cops… our systems do lie to kids…. Our systems lie to adults…. Serve and protect is not just a motto for many people… people are out there doing their best and sometimes making bad choices or doing horrible things…. And the responsibility is not all on them…. Lots of rocks and hard places out there….

I saw someone the other day call being against the military “terfy” and now someone is calling the idea that we should be nice to children “terfy” so I think we need to go over how terf isn’t some throw away term for “person whose argument I disagree with that also reminds me of this amorphous group of bad people that exist in my head” and very explicitly refers to a coherent group of radical feminists who advocate for transphobic violence -__-

[slysfreespeechspace]

TERF is a Slur and a Call to Violence

Click to enlarge

Screen caps taken from terfisaslur.com

One of these talks about how women bleeding is "gross." That certainly isn't misogynistic and doesn't sound like all the chauvinist male assholes of the past who made similar anti-woman statements.

Did you know it is possible to disagree without resorting to physical violence?

You wouldn't know it if you asked today's radical "trans activists." The term "terf" does nothing but endanger women. There is no equivalent term for men deemed transphobic. As a person who has always felt a great deal of sympathy for transgender people and the obstacles they face, I still get branded a "terf" because I have stated that there is a difference in the way one is treated when one is born a female (otherwise known as assigned female at birth or AFAB) and when one has transitioned from the sex they were assigned at birth. I have never said that one situation is superior or inferior to the other, just that it is different. There is a great deal of intersection between feminism and transgender rights, and I think it is erroneous to be at war with each other. I would never claim that I know what it is to feel like I was born into the wrong body. I was always okay with being female. What I wasn't okay with was the rigid gender roles which place me in a position of second class citizenship. People can be labeled a "terf" for anything from using slurs such as "he-she" against trans people to simply not agreeing with 100% of the objectives of the extreme trans rights movement.

Shame on the San Francisco Public Library for praising and encouraging violence

This person is Char the Butcher, a white nationalist trans activist

Somehow, the "white nationalist" part is overlooked and her violent rhetoric (Die Cis Scum) is praised

Labeling someone a "terf" is a call to violence against that person. 

There are those who claim that using words such as "vagina," "clitoris", and "mother" are "violence against trans women."

These words are not violent, they are just words to describe certain parts of the anatomy. I also find it interesting that these same people are not decrying the use of the words "penis", "scrotum," or "father" with the same vehemence. Why are they hell-bent on calling for violence against women with whom they disagree while ignoring potentially transphobic men?

Further, offense is not the same as actual violence.

The majority of people who menstruate are XX chromosome women.

The majority of people who gestate and give birth are XX chromosome women.

The majority of women's health services are directed towards women in their child-bearing years.

Some people may find terminology aimed towards XX chromosome women in their child-bearing years "exclusionary" and may be offended by such. Personally, I am offended by depersonalizing terminology such as "menstruators." I feel such terms are erasure of women. However, I acknowledge that there is a difference between a statement I find offensive and a statement calling for violence. 

"Punch a TERF" is a statement calling for violence.

Referring to women as "menstruators" is offensive. 

I am not going to call for violence against those using this dreadful term. I am, however, going to say why I don't like it and to try and educate people as to why such a term is problematic.

Then there are the disturbing statements by radical trans activists encouraging sexually violent behavior towards women.

Telling women who disagree with you to "choke on my ladycock" may just be gross, puffed-up hyperbole. However, it sounds a lot like the anti-feminist men of yore who made such statements as "these feminists just need a man to slam them up against the wall and give them a good fucking."

I saw a statement which said that "TERF is just Feminazi covered in glitter. Meet the new boss. It's the same as the old boss."

How are these people any different than the so-called "Incels" who praise attacks on women by individuals like Elliot Rodger and who feel that women should be forced to have sex with any man who wants to have sex with them? Even if you vehemently disagree with someone, violence is not the way.

I don't agree with people making ridiculous claims such as using the word "vagina" is violence and coining depersonalizing terms like "menstruator." However, I am not calling for them to be violently attacked.

If I violently attacked every person I ever disagreed with, I'd rightfully be in jail.

I couldn't stand Phyllis Schlafly and her ilk. Dear Phyllis had this sweet Southern Belle voice, bless her heart. Buttah wouldn't melt in her mouth, yet the most vile, awful words fell from her mouth, spoken in very honeyed tones. I still don't think calling for violence against her would have been right. I advised people to ignore her and denounce the bullshit she was spouting.

I didn't feel too bad when a protester threw a pie in the face of homophobic Anita Bryant. However, that was a pie, not a fist or an object meant to cause injury. I still didn't fully approve of the action although I understood it and didn't feel sorry for Anita. It was a violent action even if not an ultimately harmful one. The best way to fight people like Anita and Phyllis is to educate people as to why what they're saying is prejudiced and wrong. The more people understand that their agenda is bogus, the less of a following they'll have.

As to the modern, violence-promoting "trans activist" movement, I also disagree with their disturbing assertion that someone identifying as a lesbian has to be DTF with a person who has a penis. Nobody has to be DTF anybody. To insist that they must be is pretty damn rapey. How is this any different than "give me a chance, Baby, I'm a nice guy. If you won't do it willingly, I'll make you do it and show you what you've been missing."

Some dudebros love to claim that fat women (like me) want to force men to have sex with us. Like, no. I don't want to have sex with you assholes. I appreciate the fact that you wear your shitty personality on your sleeve so even if I was looking for a sexual partner, I wouldn't waste my time with you.

I don't like these jackasses, and I wouldn't be sad if they somehow ended up in a tar pit or on a rocket ship bound for the center of the sun. However, I am still not calling for direct violence against them. I feel that the best way to counteract their shitty behavior is a) educating people about why their attitudes are shitty and wrong and b) giving no fucks that they find me unattractive. The problem is theirs, not mine.

Having hangups about having sex with a person who has transitioned does not mean that the person with the hangup hates trans people or that they won't fight for trans people's rights to be treated equally and to not have to face scorn and violence. Sometimes people have hangups, and they are aware that the problem is theirs and they need to work on it. Sometimes people do just have awful beliefs and say awful things. Either way, nobody is ever required to have sex with anybody and a call to violence is never the first line of defense.

Other problems I've come to have with the radical "trans activist" agenda:

The Women's March should be about everyone except for AFAB women.

Women have all their rights intact? In what Universe is that happening? I'd like to go there.

I went to the Women's March in Denver. A man near me started chanting "her body her choice," and the women responded "my body my choice." Nobody was going around carding anyone or examining their genitals to see if they were an AFAB or trans woman when they responded "my body my choice." I hardly see how this was a "terfy" action. As to the man who started the chant, thank you for being an ally.

Wrong. Rigid gender roles are a social construct. Biological sex is biology.

As for the "transmedicalist" claim, I can tell you as a former nurse that there are actual reasons that your medical care team need to know your biological makeup. Sure, there are some awful people who become medical professionals who will be shitty to you because they think being transgender is a sin or some other such crap. Those people need to check themselves. However, from a purely neutral standpoint, the reason medical professionals need to know whether your chromosome patterns are XX, XY, or something else is because certain medications that are helpful to people with an XY chromosome pattern might be very unhelpful for a person with an XX chromosome pattern and vice-versa. Also, do you want doctors giving you something that might mess with your HRT or otherwise promote the very secondary sex characteristics that you've been trying to suppress?

In a social setting, it doesn't matter to me what gender you identify as other than wanting to be polite and not misgender you. (Yes, the TERF doesn't want to misgender you, oddly enough.) I'm not going to check your trousers to see what you're sporting in the groin area. There is at least a 99.999999999 percent chance that I don't want to have sex with you, because I have the sex drive of roadkill. I'm going to be approaching you from an above-the-waist perspective. I don't care what you have going on below the belt.

In a medical setting, I do need to know your biological makeup, not because I feel you should be treated poorly because of it, but because certain medications can do bad things to people with certain chromosome patterns. It's as simple as that. If this makes me a "transmedicalist," then I guess I'm a transmedicalist. What the hell, I guess I ought to go ahead and be a "transmedicalist," seeing as I'm already a "terf."

Labeling everyone who doesn't agree with 100% of your agenda a "terf" and then calling for violence against "terfs" does not make the world a better place for anybody.

Violence is not the answer.

This shit needs to stop before someone gets killed. We should be trying to understand each other, not kill each other.

~Sly Has Spoken~

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[kingxfmischief]

Imagine being a terf and using the fucking shit in Afghanistan to fucking spread your disgusting, transphobic vitriol.

Friendly reminder that TERFs aren't feminists. They're fucking worthless, misogynistic scum.

To fucking take this scenario to spread this bullshit is disgusting and further proof that TERFs don't give a single fuck about women, just about bitching about how much they hate trans people.

Like I'm so fucking pissed to see this fucking shit in the fucking notes of a fucking 19 year old young woman facing so much Hell from the Taliban, watching horror stories that she's been told playing out before her eyes.

TERFs can fucking rot.

This is out of the blue! I am Afghan and I am currently living in Afghanistan. Today (15 Aug 2021) the Taliban entered the capital city of Afghanistan which is Kabul. The government is going to change to an Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. They ruled in Afghanistan for 5 years, 20 years ago. I've heard stories about them since I'm 19 and luckily was not yet born. And let me tell you the stories were terrifying, but they were just horror stories to me and I never thought that I'd be living under their regime, but here we are.

Let me tell you something shocking: girls can only study up to 6th grade. The future of female students in universities hasn't been decided yet. According to what I've heard they go from house to house and ask for girls and women (12 to 45 year olds) for marriage.

As they are just pieces of crap, I don't really believe that they'd let us have mobiles or use the internet. I really hope this isn't my last post in here! But if it is I want to let the world know of what they've done and what they're doing.

Don't forget us!

[boonskicks]

Edit: In making sure the accessible versions for screen readers show up always in the reblogs, I am adding two additions of mine into one! Sorry for the confusion!

[image description: a screenshot of a notification showing a tumblr user's reaction that says: ''this is the most TERFy bullshit I've ever...'' the rest of the phrase is cut off. end description]

congratulations on missing the whole fucking point

i should add: stop calling things terf rhetoric when it's not that. A bi person asking pan people to stop denying the transphobic and biphobic history of the label is not the same as me excluding you. I don't want to exclude you, I don't want to exclude any pan person from the community. But you denying bi people's experiences and accusing me of 'panphobia' and 'being a terf' just proves you don't actually care to understand what I was saying. I just want misinformation to stop, so I gave you that information to people with sources.

I guess me calling out a transphobic way a pan person referred to trans & nonbinary people in 2020 is terf rhethoric, ok yes, makes total sense...

again, pan people are welcome to reblog but reminder not clown on this post like this person did - also terfs, transmeds and transphobes will be blocked, I don't want you anywhere near my blog

I know I'm just preaching to the choir at this point, but I'm going to do it anyway.

It is extremely fucked up, in my eyes, to imply that me calling out the transphobic and biphobic history of the pan label... is ''TERFy''.

While I won't deny that often times terfs will be against the pan label and that could be a red flag for some... that is NOT the same as what I said above. Terfs don't call out transphobia because guess what: they're transphobic and they don't think their bigotry matters because they prioritize their harmful beliefs on the guise of ''protecting cis women'', which is just their cover, their way to fearmonger and manipulate people into their side.

They are against the pan label BECAUSE they are transphobic, as they are against any other label being attracted to trans people, even though of course lesbians, gay men and bi people obviously can and will date them. Terfs can stay mad at that, because they're wrong.

But I'm not against the pan label, I don't want it gone. I'm against the transphobic and biphobic misinformation being spread through some pan people and the dismissive response of others when bi or other members of the lgbti+ community rightfully criticize this.

I hope you can see that telling someone, specially a trans nonbinary person, that THEM CALLING OUT TRANSPHOBIA is ''TERFy''... is just frankly, not only categorically wrong, but terribly misguided and hurtful to do.

You're conflating a transphobic hate movement... to a nonbinary bi person telling some pan people to not deny transphobic and biphobic history. A history that erases not only my sexual identity... but keeps being covertly transphobic, which also harms my gender identity, as well as the ones of many folks in the bi community.

So, please, pan people or otherwise, who think bi people sound ''TERFy'' when they're simply criticizing the transphobic and biphobic ideas that some pan people still spread... please understand that is very offensive to do and just muddles up what terf ideology really is.

A transphobic, bigoted hate movement doesn't call out transphobia in any way; that movement will never point out the harm of transphobia because it thrives off it, it's the ideological base of it. It thrives off hurting us trans folk and wanting us gone, our voices silenced and our experiences erased.

It won't do any of us in the community any good to try to point fingers at the people who want covert transphobia to stop... as if we're the bad guys.

Anyway, please reblog this version, as I said above, it's acessible and now has more in depth details on another issue. I'll be pinning this one instead, since it goes further in what I said in the prior reblog. Please don't tag as long post either, as that may block this list from showing up to some.

Ok, I don't tend to make posts like this but I’m too frustrated because I see it time after time on this hellsite.

Complaining on a bi person’s post saying: “ugh not this pan is biphobic discourse again 🙄 just accept both labels are valid and move on” is not the hot take you think it is.

Outright DENYING that the pan label was ever biphobic or transphobic in the first place is so wild and I’ve been seeing that crop up more often.

The history of both terms is complicated - but generally as we know it, both these terms were initially coined by cishet people in a way to shun, denounce, medicalize and demonize people.

But the term pansexual as it became widely known as part of the LGBTI+ community, both online and offline… was undeniably spread as the more “inclusive version” of bisexuality. Not only did people misunderstand bi history, but it added to the oversexualized stigma we face from both heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. “Hearts not parts” was a terrible phrase that demonstrated this aspect (also kind of implied gays and lesbians are... only attracted to parts as well which. i don't need to say why that's wrong).

People thankfully realized how a lot of pan people were spreading transphobic rhetoric in regards to trans binary people, however the idea that pan people were attracted to nonbinary folks and bi people were not was still quite widespread and honestly still is.

Of course, thankfully some people realized that wasn’t the case at all and that’s where the “regardless of gender” and the idea of pan as a microlabel of a broader umbrella became more accepted. However, let’s not act as if that definition is widely known yet. A lot of people still think of pan by those former definitions… and by virtue of that, are spreading transphobic and biphobic rhetoric.

If you want proof of that, read this excerpt from an article that lists off how people in the media/internet describe the pan label from the 1970s and to as late as 2020:

June 18, 2020: “Madison [Bailey] proceeds to explain that a pansexual person can be attracted to all different kinds of people, including ‘girls, boys, trans girls, trans boys, and nonbinary babies’. The term pansexual is viewed as being much more inclusive than ‘bisexual’, because it does not assume that a person is only attracted to men or women, but also those who don’t identify with a specific gender.”

Now, not all of this is Madison Bailey's direct quote, it's only after ''nonbinary babies'' where the writer of the article steps in with the definition... but that doesn't mean that Madison's quote is not very telling. Besides, the article where this quote was referenced has so much more, it just goes to show that in 2020, people still spread the same definition of pan being the more ''inclusive'' of the two labels. Here's the link:

I hope I don't need to say it but that quote sounds... terrible. As a nonbinary person, being called a 'baby' is so infantilizing, even if the intent is to be 'inclusive' and... just 'cute' I guess? As if nonbinary people don't get infantilized enough. And why did she need to specify 'trans girls and trans boys' from 'girls and boys'? This was last year, so don't go telling me and others we're just being 'panphobic' when this transphobic and biphobic crap is genuinely what some pan people still say.

This is why it’s so infuriating to see pan people on this site just yell “panphobia!” at a bi person just calmly expressing the fact that some bi people (specially trans/nonbinary bi folks) may feel uncomfortable with the term and telling pan people to be aware of its history and not spread more harmful ideas.

So you can see how responding to that as if someone is attacking the pan label as a whole and vehemently denying that the term had transphobic and biphobic history… comes off as extremely tone deaf, stubbornly ignorant and incredibly dismissive of bi people’s voices.

While there’s some bi people that are against the pan label, that doesn’t mean all bi people want it gone. We just don’t want further misinformation to spread, but it KEEPS being spread and it won’t be solved if pan people have a kneejerk reaction and keep shutting down bi people bringing up fair points!

Like, please step back and realize how you sound and look. Yes, I understand a lot of these people don’t want any more infighting in the community, but there’s a difference between transmeds harassing nonbinary people and people who use neopronouns vs bi people just expressing the fact that some pan people need to be more mindful and self aware of the label’s history. That’s not dividing anybody???

If you dismiss or shut down valid points like this, think about how you’re coming across. Because it sounds like you just want to call people panphobes instead of realizing you may still be incredibly biphobic. You care more about people not discussing the history of the label or denying it in favor of “no infighting” than actually having a discussion in good faith.

To end this already very long post, I have an excerpt from that same article, this time by the writer, Kravitz M. - I really recommend you check his other articles, and support him on Ko-fi:

''People tend to chalk down harmful rhetoric to just an exceptional “fraction of the community” instead of acknowledging the issue’s prevalency, which is an unhelpful deflection. The mindsets shown in the timeline were exhibited by many of the first to use “pansexual” as a sexual orientation, a trend that hasn’t stopped at all.''

Pan people are welcome to reblog this and interact but don’t clown on this post! If you call me a panphobe you literally missed the entire point of what I was saying and I want nothing to do with you lmao

Edit: made this more accessible for screen readers! My apologies!