#analyzing it and writing meta for it

[nururu]

everyone's always wrong about characters and that's why I talk to myself on here in my own posts.

[cloudwifey]

muruem and killua both on their knees begging palm to save their beloved komugi and gon. I just realized this parallel today and im unwell.

togashi created palm to facilitate the new themes of love and coming of age in the chimera ant arc. and created multiple parallels between the two pairs

[groove-on-boogie-down]

Random morning Acolyte thoughts but... After the finale I saw the criticism that Osha should have had a more visceral outpouring of emotion after her actions.

But as I am thinking about it, I think what we see is a woman who, after failing to process her emotions and repressing them as a result, suddenly snaps and, out of shock, goes right back to what she knows. Osha has a small outburst in the first episode when she tries and fails to use the force (some argue she did use it; the ship moves after all). Then, she has a large outburst with Mae in episode 8. She has been angry with her for 16 years. But Sol? Sol is a complete betrayal for her. It came out of left field, and the simmering boil of those emotions she failed to restrain finally overflowed. It burned him, it burned her, and she shuts down.

Everyone doesn't react the same in every situation. Osha shutting off her emotions can be seen as familiar to her. Suppressing her anger was familiar. We know that even after leaving the order, she tries to follow the teachings. Qimir was the one who told her to feel openly, and when she loses her grip on the reins of those feelings, she does the unthinkable. Her fear that her vision of Mae killing Sol would come true is what sent her to Brendok in the first place (ahem, Anakin).

"You really think I'm capable of betraying the order, overpowering a Jedi Master, and murdering her?" - Osha to Yord in episode 1.

(I could go on a tangent about how the angry black woman trope can be addressed in this show, and how in many cases people view us as angry when we aren't, or how at the same time our anger is only valid to some when we make a scene. But that's a post for another day.) All this is to say, I personally think Osha's response is fitting for her character. She reached a tipping point, and afterward, we see her fully release all the pain she has been holding inside when she reunites under the Bunta tree with her sister and the truth. I believe that was her mourning the time she had lost, her family, the father figure that hurt her, and all she had experienced in the span of less than a week. It was a lot. So, I don't think there is a "wrong" way for her to have responded.

[anmechokola]

Fire, Flame and Inhereted Will

(Spoilers for up to chapter 1138)

In chapter 506, when Rayleigh is talking about Roger's execution, he says:

In Japanese, the words he used were

僅かに灯った "命の火"を - barely burning "fire of life"

and

燃え広がる"業火" - spread "hellfire"

What he meant was that Roger used what little life he had left to change the lives of people all over the world. So fire here has an association with not only change, but also life. Roger (and Ace) is also associated specifically here with 火 (fire) and not 炎 (flame), but I'll get to that.

Now we, as readers, can think what we want about Ace's death, but from the perspective of the World Government, he was easily the most dangerous man alive. He was the biological son of Gol D. Roger, the natural inheritor of his Will. He was in fact the son of two people of the D. clan. He was literally made of fire. Ace had everything to be the Pirate Prince come to burn their world to the ground.

And yet, he wasn't. He didn't. It was never his dream. He never wanted to be a part of Roger's legacy and didn't inherit his Will. His execution mirrored Roger's (deliberately, probably) and yet his fire wasn't the one to bring hellfire to the world. While Roger gave a speech and, more importantly, chose to be there, Ace didn't choose any part of what happened to him. He was just a pawn in a larger war, a warning the Marines could give to the world and an excuse to bring an Emperor down. He was the catalyst, but it wasn't his Will that got him there, he wasn't the one who spread the flames.

(chapters 1 and 569)

In contrast to Ace, look at Sabo. Ace is Firefist (火拳) but Sabo is Flame Emperor (炎帝), and I think that distinction is important. As far as I could find out (better speakers can correct me), 火 is used for fire in a more general sense, while 炎 is used for the actual image of a burning fire, or a more intense fire. Sabo, Chief of Staff of the Revolutionary Army, is a much more concrete and pressing danger than Ace ever was.

As a side note, the move Sabo uses in Dressrosa in chapter 743 is called Dragon's Breath (竜の息吹). 息吹 means breath, but also a sign (of something new and fresh), or a breath (of spring, fresh air, etc).

In the end, Sabo is the one who is bringing a "breath" of change into the world. He is the one who inherited Ace's fruit and Dragon's Will and fanned the flames of Revolution. Sabo may not be a D., but he carries two of their Wills. He is the one who is turning the smoldering sparks of rebellion into an inferno, he's the one who is actually threatening the World Government.

(chapter 1054)

(Also, seeing Ace die was the trigger for Sabo to recover his memories and eventually go after the Mera Mera Fruit. So, in a sense, it's an interesting bit of cosmic karma that the World Government ended up lighting the flames of their own hellfire.)

Fire links all three brothers, actually. Their lives were all changed by the fire at the Gray Terminal that ultimately drove Sabo to run away, lose his memories and join the Revolutionary Army. That loss caused Ace and Luffy to honor Sabo's apparent death and promise to live with no regrets and caused Ace to promise Luffy that he would never die.

Luffy ended up being the one to inherit Roger's Will along with Ace's. Whitebeard even explicitly tells Teach that Teach isn't the one Roger was waiting for, then cuts to an image of Luffy:

(chapter 576)

You can sever Gol D. Roger's bloodline, but not the flames of their Wills. What he says in Japanese is

炎が消える事はね - flame isn't/won't be extinguished

It's worth noting that the kanji for Vegapunk's Mother Flame (chapter 1116) is

消えない炎 - undying flame

消えない is the negative form of the verb 消える, which means to disappear/vanish, but also to go out (of a fire or light), to fade (of a feeling), to be lost or die out. So the Mother Flame is "undying" in the sense that it will not disappear, but also in the sense that it will not fade from memory or be lost to the world

The phrasing is different, but both the name of the Mother Flame and what Whitebeard said use the same words and mean the same thing.

Likewise, Roger's and Ace's Wills are undying, they will not disappear or fade away.

Luffy and Sabo will carry the flames that continue spreading change (hellfire, to the ones in power) to the world.

[shmisky]

What do you think was Stan's fate in the Better World Timeline?

Ooh, very interesting question! Thanks for the ask and sorry in advance for the enormous answer you’re about to get, hahah ❤️

So, to begin answering that (I promise I will eventually!), I have to first point out that what always caught my attention in Ford’s Better World description in the journal is that not once he meets his parallel self. On that hangs my entire analysis.

Instead, he gives us a reason why they didn’t meet: parallel!Fiddleford explains that he had been leading a portal expedition to a certain dimension, but one of the security officers ran into his parallel self and as soon as they touched hands, the entire dimension started to warp and fizz with static. Fiddleford and his team barely escaped alive!

But that’s the thing: as soon as they touched hands, only! Not as soon as they saw each other, or as soon as they were in the same room together, or as soon as they talked to each other, like you sometimes see in fanfic! No, it very much required actual skin-to-skin contact. You would think that Professor Stanford Pines, celebrated star of the scientific community, founder of the International Institute of Oddology, and our Ford, 12 PhDs (or a few less PhDs at the time) would have enough sense and self-control to... just not try and touch each other? Or, for security reasons, stand at least a few meters away from each other? If they feared an accidental touch so much, they could have talked through a glass panel or some kind of physical divide. I do believe every Ford must be a deeply curious individual, and you’re telling me that parallel!Ford, known genius, wasn’t capable of creating a way to enable himself to interview his parallel selves safely? Wouldn’t you be very curious to meet your parallel self? I think it’s more likely than not that other versions of Ford would end up pushed through the portal, so our Ford might not even have been the first Ford to visit that dimension.

But instead Fiddleford goes so far as to detain our Ford and hold him captive without even attempting to explain things first! A bit overkill, no? You could say, “but Bunny, Fiddleford just didn’t want impulsive, reckless Ford to go and run to his parallel self upon seeing him for the first time!” But herein, my friend, lies the crux of the matter: even after Fiddleford explains things to our Ford, even after our Ford understands he couldn’t touch his parallel self... He still doesn’t meet or talk to parallel!Ford. Wasn’t he trusted enough/allowed to do so, even then?

My Doylist explanation (that considers what led the author to choose a certain path) to that is: the writers just didn’t want the two Fords to meet and wanted to leave it ambiguous. It’s really not that deep 😭

My favorite Watsonian explanation (in-universe headcanon) to that is: Fiddleford didn’t want them to meet 😏

Now, would Fiddleford ever lie to Ford? Yes. In fact, he already did, in our original timeline! Ford asked him to destroy the memory gun, Fiddleford apparently agreed. “He was crestfallen by my advice, but after some discussion he came to see the wisdom in it. He said that he didn’t want to risk forgetting his wife and son. I ordered him to destroy the gun, and he did.” (“Ordered”... Oh, Ford, never change...) Reality: Fiddleford hadn’t destroyed it at all, and in fact used it on Ford to erase his memories without Ford’s consent or knowledge.

So even though I don’t think this was, necessarily, either Alex’s or Rob Renzetti’s intentions, I like to think parallel!Fiddleford was bullshitting our Ford a bit. To which extent, I don’t know. The thing about the parallel selves touching and causing a dimension to end might very well be true (in fact, according to Alex’s Word of God, it is! he has said on Twitter that parallel selves really can’t meet in their home dimensions, but can meet in the in-between spaces!) BUT because of the reasons I explained above, it’s my headcanon that it wasn’t the main reason why Fiddleford didn’t want the two Fords meeting.

I just love, love the vibes of A Better World. I love how utterly smitten with that world our Ford is. He describes himself as “drawn” towards the Institute “like a moth to a flame,” and mentions his desire to “revel in [his] parallel self’s success.” He’s utterly smitten it with it despite never once meeting his parallel self. He imagines his parallel self as the happiest man on Earth despite never once meeting his parallel self. He leaves that dimension sighing wistfully despite never once meeting his parallel self. I love how parallel!Ford is just... shrouded in this very ambiguous mystery. It all sounds a little bit ominous to me. Is he happy? Is he satisfied? Does he like what he accomplished?

Our Ford, of course, imagines that he is. Our Ford doesn’t even wonder about parallel!Stan, because that’s who Stanford Pines is: self-centered as all hell, hahah. His brother doesn’t even cross his mind, since he’s too busy being dazzled by his apparent great success and the fulfillment of his dreams! I think he subconsciously assumed parallel!Stan must have been fine.

What do I think happened to parallel!Stan? Oh, well, he’s very much dead 🪦💐 And parallel!Ford, the man Ford believes to be so lucky, is actually miserable. Fiddleford was merely protecting our Ford from the truth.

If you want to get a bit darker, just look at this excerpt from the Not What He Seems script:

Meanwhile, in the Lost Legends comics, Ford is saying shit like this:

We stan an insensitive king who is utterly and blissfully oblivious to his brother’s dangerously low self-esteem and borderline suicidal thoughts ❤️

Before TBoB, I might have been reluctant to think something so dark could happen in GF, since it still is, after all, a cartoon for kids, and Stan’s a main character! But then TBoB went and revealed to us that Dipper and Mabel died horrible deaths in all the other timelines! 😭 And while I do take that with a grain of salt because it was revealed to us by Bill Cipher and Bill is not trustworthy but a professional liar, just the fact Alex acknowledged and played with the possibility of the two protagonists dying horribly is already pretty telling in and of itself...

I think that once parallel!Ford called Stan after a decade, unwittingly gave him hope, and then ripped it out from his hands... Yeah. We know how Ford is important to Stan. Reconciliation with Ford might very well have been what was pushing Stan forward. Stan can be very, very stubborn—working on a portal for 30 years—when Ford is involved. But having no Ford at all...

Parallel!Ford might have planned to call Stan back, but by then it was probably too late. So yeah. I like to imagine that parallel!Ford would be, ironically, so, so jealous of our Ford’s happy ending with Stan.

Actually, as I type this, the funniest idea occurred to me. The real reason Fiddleford didn’t allow the two Fords to meet is that parallel!Ford, upon listening our Ford praise his accomplishments and shit-talk Stan (“I can’t believe Stanley listen to you! He’s so stubborn, so selfish, he never listens!”) would disregard all reason, all training, and all self-control just for the precious chance to punch himself in the face. Dimension ending catastrophe? A minor detail.

[kerosene-in-a-blender]

Others have talked, very rightly, about Bells Hells having an extremely Us vs. Them style of morality and one thing I find interesting about all that is many of their most virulent (read: actively nasty towards other fans) defenders are also taking this stance. The party line has become that the segments of the fandom that are disappointed with how this campaign shook out have never been happy with anything Bells Hells did from the beginning and have been actively hating on people who do like it for just as long. Us, the beleaguered Campaign 3 lovers versus Them, the mean c3 haters (who are often characterized as being hung up on the Mighty Nein and simply mad Bells Hells aren't the Nein again).

What's been quite funny for me personally is that I have seen vague posts clearly targeted at myself giving me the above detailed characterization of the c3 hater when I: have never seen Campaign 2 (though I did watch Campaign 1 back in 2019), started watching live with the first EXU, got into the fandom (as a lurker) at the start of Campaign 3, didn't make any of my own posts about it until late 2022 and didn't start really posting in earnest until mid 2023. Practically none of the characteristics applied to the archetypal c3 hater certain fans have created actually apply to me, other than of course thinking Campaign 3 actually isn't very good. So it's been interesting to watch people draw lines in the sand and create an Us vs. Them narrative that I know isn't true based on existing as myself.

[lunarriviera]

#UndertheSkin2, starring Tan Jianci & Jin Shijia [x]

[airenyah]

i've managed to get really far with my ep4 meta, i've only got just over 3 scenes left (the "be my bf" scene, style finding out the truth, the gym scene, and i gotta finish the nc scene) but the problem is that i've only got about 4h left which i'll probably need to write it all up in the first place (also it's less than 3h bc i'm also travelling) and then i would still need to make the gifs and proof read it, which is also gonna be time consuming rip

[abstract-moth]

thinking about how Ambrosius originally stood next to the Director far from Ballister and the Queen

and the only reason he was close enough to cut off Ballister’s arm

was because he moved forward to cheer his name

[crimeronan]

thinkin about these lines in the beginning of hollow mind:

and

just. god i love it so much. WHAT a clever-yet-subtle use of foreshadowing. like obviously the audience knows that luz is about to find something big, given everything about belos..... but these lines aren't Really about the overarching season-long plot at all.

luz starting the episode out saying "i need to show people who belos really is" and eda asking "and who is he, really?" what a fun way to say Haha. Luz Is About To Find Out.

This Sure Is An Episode About The Finding Out Part Of Fucking Around!

and the second exchange isn't about the general population of the boiling isles at all. it's about hunter.

thesis statements, themes, etc. hunter doesn't want to think he's wasted his life following the wrong person. luz is about to spend an entire episode searching for something big enough to change his mind. and she won't find it for a long time, because that's how cult abuse and cognitive dissonance and the sunk cost fallacy work.

luz and hunter are both so completely unequipped for what each of them is about to discover. it's gonna color their relationship and their individual senses of self for the Entire Rest Of The Show. they are NOT READY for how their lives are about to change, and neither of them know it.

but the writers do.

so the writers are saying.

:)

:)

:)

okay, kiddos. let's pull the pin on all these grenades.

[charlottesbookclub]

should we talk about the interlace on gwayne's horse's armor?

since I spend altogether too much time looking at stills and gifs of gwayne anyway, I figured I might as well share some observations I have about the really interesting visuals that are happening with his horse's armor

this is part art historical analysis, part gwayne meta, and part "let's look at some gorgeous images under the guise of doing visual analysis" so if that's your thing, please read on! if not, that's also totally fine – I get that this is hyperspecific and also a symptom of my very serious gwayne brainrot, so I'm putting everything else below the cut! 💚💚 (also it's quite long – sorry! 😅)

okay I want to be upfront about my qualifications and my shortfalls here: I'm an art history phd student and so basically all I do is visual analysis of objects. I've studied a number of medieval manuscripts that feature interlace (which is where I'm going to draw most of my knowledge from here), and I've taken a seminar (an advanced graduate course) specifically on medieval manuscripts, for which I wrote a research paper entitled "From Kells to Celtic: The Aesthetics of the Book of Kells Illuminations as a Marker of Irish Identity." HOWEVER I am NOT a historian of armor, so I will be taking my knowledge of interlace on other objects and applying it to the armor we see in the show

a short intro

so, the first thing that struck me about gwayne's horse's armor is that it's really different than the other equestrian armor we see, even amongst the other men who came with him from oldtown. to be honest, my guess is that this was likely done in the show to help him stand out and also show that he is a special and precious princess (which he is btw 😌😌) who needs fancy armor for his horse. I'm not sure if further thought went into it than that (but maybe it did! I'm happy to stand corrected here!)

however, the catastrophic levels of brainrot I've developed over this man have compelled me to read much further into it than that, which I shall now proceed to do with great enthusiasm! ☺️

first, let's look at the armor:

it's hard to find really detailed close-ups, but it's clear that the armor is incredibly intricate. not only do we have this very complex interlacing, but certain designs are marked out with different colors and internal patterning, making the whole thing even more visually interesting and complex

while interlacing is used across a vast range of time, cultures, geographical regions, and artistic mediums, given both the visuality of this armor in particular and knowing that westeros is based on medieval europe, seeing this interlace instantly called to mind a style that we today call "insular fusion" (I'm not going to go into all the specifics of it here because that's a post all its own lol 😅). it's a style perhaps most famously exemplified by The Book of Kells, but it is found throughout many different objects of the same period (ca. 700-900 CE)

now let's look at some fucking interlace hell yeah!!!!!!

from The Book of Kells (ca. 750-810 CE)

from The Lindisfarne Gospels (ca. 698-721 CE)

and two non-manuscript examples:

Animal Head Post from a Viking Ship Burial (ca. 825 CE)

and a later example, but one of my favorites:

Wooden Portal of the Urnes Stave Church (ca. 1050-1070 CE)

do we see the vision??? are y'all picking up what I'm putting down???

"okay, charlotte, I see the similarities, but why does this matter?" you may be asking yourself (or maybe you aren't idk), and the answer is: this type of interlacing had some super fascinating meanings and uses, some of which I think we can apply to gwayne! 💚💚

let me break it down from least to most potentially related to gwayne:

the aesthetics of interlace as an identity marker

use of interlace in a religious context

interlace as a status symbol

the protective potential of interlace

and now let's go into detailllllllll!!!!!

the aesthetics of interlace as an identity marker

I bring this one up because it's what I focused on in my personal research on the topic of interlace, but I also think it's the least relevant to gwayne. my argument in my paper was that the aesthetics of the interlace in the Book of Kells have been thoughtfully and intentionally re-used throughout history and into the present as a clear visual marker of identity that draws a narrative back to the production of the Book of Kells. however, in terms of the show, we have very little indication that the particular style of interlacing we see on gwayne's horse is associated with any larger identity concepts. it doesn't seem to be associated with house hightower, as none of the other men with gwayne seem to borrow this motif, nor do we see it associated with alicent (as far as I can tell from the little looking I've done, but I'm more than happy to revise this!). for it to make sense as some form of identity marker, it would have to be clear what identity he's visually referencing, and since his use of interlace seems unique, I think it's doubtful that it's part of a larger visual invocation of identity

use of interlace in a religious context

part of what makes insular fusion so interesting as a style is that it is indeed a fusion of a number of different regional styles, including vine scrolls from the mediterranean, triskeles from the northern british isles, and zoomorphic (meaning "in the form of animals") interlace from northwestern mainland europe. although insular fusion is used to decorate christian objects (like gospel books and churches), its component parts are much much older and have connections to various pagan religions that significantly pre-date christianity. obviously it's impossible to be 100% certain of the exact significance of interlace in any of these religious contexts (there are no written records explaining it), but scholars have a few guesses

one suggestion is that interlace in some way represented the spirit world/the world of the gods, or perhaps even a point of connection between the human world and the world beyond. although the religion of westeros is obviously different than any of the real-world religions that used interlace in this manner, I do still wonder if there could be a religious connection here. it's pretty clear that gwayne's mother was quite religious, and alicent is as well. although we don't totally know gwayne's relationship with religion, we could certainly guess that it's at least a little bit important to him, given the beliefs of the women in his life. I know that the most common religious symbol in westeros tends to be the seven-pointed star, which is not something I see on the interlace on the armor, so I'm not sure how far I would want to take this hypothesis, but I did want to put it out there for anyone who might have further thoughts!

interlace as a status symbol

as I mentioned to in the beginning, I do think it's likely that this particular type of armor was chosen for gwayne's horse because it does come off as a bit ostentatious. the manuscripts with interlace that I mentioned above were hugely expensive and time-consuming projects, and only the most affluent religious communities could afford such luxurious gospel books. given the level of detail on the armor, I have to imagine that the same is true in the world of the show. in some ways, it's a mode of conspicuous consumption; a demonstration of the hightowers' wealth and influence. there's a reason gwayne's horse's armor stands out: because it's meant to. it's meant to set him apart, even from the other soldiers who came with him from oldtown

now this next part is just my own conjecture, but I also wonder if the armor is meant to speak to a more artistic sensibility on gwayne's part. after all, equestrian armor is a very functional object with a very clear goal: to protect the horse. from a purely functional standpoint, the interlace does nothing to serve this purpose (and may actually hinder it a little??), it simply adds a complex visuality to the armor. aside from just flaunting the wealth that must have been expended to commission such a piece, it also suggests that it was crafted by artisans who had both functional and aesthetic goals in mind while creating it. whether it was gwayne himself who directed the commission or not, it seems significant that he chose to use this armor that doubles as a kind of art piece. he does seem to be someone who enjoys the finer things in life, so it wouldn't surprise me if he had an artistic appreciation too, and was using this armor as a way to demonstrate that (or perhaps even just as a way to show his own personal artistic taste/preferences)

the protective potential of interlace

technically, I think "interlace as a status symbol" is the most likely reason for the armor being the way it is, but this one is my favorite theory, so I'm putting it at the top. circling back to the religious uses of interlace, another theory of its religious significance is as a mode of protection. some scholars think that its creators believed that the weaving, intertwined lines of the interlace would confuse and trap evil spirits. building on this theory is the fact that complex interlacing was often used at transitional or liminal points, such as the beginning pages of a gospel book or on the doors of churches. the idea here is that the interlace wields its protective powers at these key entry points against any evil entities that might try to enter sacred or protected spaces

interlace as apotropaic (a fancy technical term meaning "protective," often used in reference to magic or magical practices) seems particularly poignant for an object that was literally going to be worn into battle. now, I admit once again that there is little canon evidence to suggest that interlace is thought of in this way in the world of the show, so I'm running with this theory more because I like it rather than because I think it's legitimately based in canon. but I just think it's very sweet that gwayne's horse would be adorned with this complex interlace that seems to be woven with protective powers. even if gwayne (or others) didn't literally believe that interlace had those kind of powers, the fact that he still made the choice to invoke the idea of protection against harm and evil is a lovely thought. (it makes me think of how people today still might carry a rabbit's foot or have charms against the evil eye, even if they don't actually place stock in the beliefs surrounding those objects. I just think it's cool that generations of cultural belief still imbue these objects with a kind of magical aura). I just like the idea that he (or someone else?? otto? alicent? his mother?) chose armor that might have been associated with protection against harm

and now I'll finally wrap up!!

whew that was a lot! if you've read this far – thank you so much!! I'm honestly not even sure if these thoughts were coherent, but I kept thinking about this when I looked at that interlaced armor, and I just had to get the ideas out of my head lol

but I'd love to hear what others think about this topic! I'm certainly not an expert on the matter, and I'd be super open to hearing if others have different interpretations!

if nothing else, I hope you learned something cool about interlace! (and also just how far I have descended into madness over this man that I am writing pages-long analyses of his horse's armor 😅🤪)

[sevensoulmates]

@buddiesystempod Just discovered your podcast the other day and finished listening to your Buddie astrology episode a minute ago and loved it! You definitely convinced me of each of their placements. I originally had a couple different placements, but the only definitive thought I had was that Buck had to have Cancer somewhere in his big 3 and Eddie needed to have Scorpio somewhere in his big 3.

I wanted to add something about specifically Eddie's Moon in Scorpio because after listening to y'all talk I think you hit the nail on the head!

Something that hit me as y'all were talking about Eddie's Scorpio Moon, that you didn't touch on, is that the Moon represents the Mother, right? Your moon placement can often reflect your relationship with your mom, and in this case, I think it's also reflecting on Eddie's relationship to "mothers" in general, and my mind just went haywire!

Because Scorpio also represents sexuality, right? And Scorpio being ruled by Pluto, which represents shadow sides, & Mars, which can symbolize struggle, means that Eddie's Scorpio placements likely strongly correlate to his issues with sexuality as well as WITH MOTHERS. Specifically, The Mother is the main tool that Eddie uses to repress his true sexuality/desires.

I'm gonna start with Helena. She's his literal mother and, I would argue, more than Ramon, has harmed Eddie the most emotionally growing up. She was the present parent; she was the one who made him feel like he wasn't enough, and nothing he could ever do would ever be enough. She continued to shame him as he grew into an adult, specifically about how he PARENTED, and she canonically made Shannon feel like a horrible mother as well. Eddie's Scorpio Moon likely correlates to strong conflict with the mother, specifically in regards to repressing his true self, likely in relation to sexuality, and the heterosexual biological consequence of sex, procreation aka Chris. Her extreme shaming of him over getting Shannon pregnant (which probably caused massive shame in him around Sex in general) and then again trying to remove Eddie from the role of parent to place herself there is a recurring issue since Chris was born.

Now I want to move on to Shannon, and how she has always represented the Ultimate Mother Figure to Eddie. She's a martyr in his mind, and when Shannon comes back, he has a hard time figuring out if he wants Shannon back due to the fact that he wants her to be Chris's mother, or because he wants her as a woman and wife. It's only once Shannon is about to become a mother again does Eddie decide he will stamp down on his feelings and go back to her. Then after she dies, Eddie struggles with dating again. He doesn't actually want to date, never has, and only got back into it because he was convinced that Christopher needed a mother. So he looked for a mother to Chris in Ana, and when that didn't work, he looked for a mother in Marisol, and when that still didn't work, his last ditch effort was to find the literal doppelganger of his Ultimate Mother Figure Shannon in Kim. And when finally it all blew back up in his face, what happens? Helena swoops in at Eddie's most vulnerable and removes Eddie from the role of parent, this time successfully.

Now I want to talk about Ana. He was always subconsciously looking for a mother figure for Chris in her. That's why when she was perceived as Eddie's Wife in public, which is something his true self was not actually okay with, he had his panic attacks and ultimately could not continue that relationship.

And with Marisol, we see her as a former Nun, once again connecting her to the LITERAL HOLY MOTHER. Eddie then suffers literal sexual dysfunction after that. He can't look at Marisol without thinking of Mothers and to Eddie, Mothers = Shame/Sexual Shame. Shame from Helena, Shame from the way he "dragged" Shannon down by getting her pregnant and then "abandoning" her for the military, Shame for the way he wasn't able to love Shannon the way she deserved to be loved, Shame for using Ana, Shame for not being able to want any of these women the way he's been told he's supposed to want them!

Eddie also uses sex with women as a distancing tactic. He has sex with Shannon in s2 to avoid the real problem of bringing her back into Chris's life, he was dating Marisol for months, having a lot of sex with her, but never actually got to know anything about her in all of that time. And when he sees Kim again he's reminded of sex with Shannon because he deludes himself into thinking the reason he's having sexual issues with women is because they're not Shannon.

Scorpio also represents death and rebirth, right? And pluto, the shadow side, the shadow of Eddie's sexuality that he's been repressing this whole time. This new cycle of rebirth is forcing him to unveil why he's had such strong issues in relation to Mothers, and his struggles with his sexual feelings towards women.

I strongly believe his next arc HAS to involve a confrontation with Helena, specifically, in some way, as well as him finally putting to rest his rose-colored idolization of Shannon. It's only once he's able to recognize that his role as Father does not have to be separate from his role as Mother too. Eddie can be both Father & Mother to Chris, because obviously Chris does not want a replacement for his mom, understandably.

And of course, Scoprio also has a strong correlation to the "taboo" in sexuality as well. In Eddie's mind, he may find homosexuality to still be personally "taboo" (in an internalized homophobia sense like "everyone else is fine to be as queer as they want, but *I* cannot be). This also connects back to the Church as well as his community which may have instilled that in him.

Oh, I also forgot that if he was born in 1991, then his Pluto is likely also in Scorpio, which also points to issues with sexuality as well!

All in all, this is just a super long way of saying that Eddie needs to un-repress his gay-ness, build his true home with Buck and Chris, and stand strong in his confidence that he is a good parent on his own and that he can be even better by letting Buck support him as well!

[no-psi-nan]

The first chunk of this post addresses some of your points but to answer it more directly, you're confusing Teruhashi's canon character arc of ADMITTING she likes Saiki with a non-existent arc where she falls in love with who he truly is (which is impossible until he does a power reveal and starts being himself around her for real).

Teruhashi doesn't ever get to know the real Saiki, nor does anyone know him outside of the Psychickers and his family (relevant post).

She thinks he's a guy who sits quietly in the corner and only ever says "good grief". She doesn't know he's a sarcastic mfer who loves to talk back and snark, she doesn't know he spends his free time reading obscure books and playing shitty video games, she doesn't know he'd move heaven and earth to help a stranger and put his life on the line to help a friend.

Teruhashi actually hated the most "real" moment Saiki has been, when they're at the mall/arcade and Saiki smokes her at every single game mercilessly lmao (Saiki won't even let Kaido or Nendo win a game against him, he's extremely opposed to losing). Where's the evidence that Teruhashi would actually LIKE someone who backtalks her and challenges her assumptions? She sure was quick to put Imu in her place lol. And this issue even harkens back to Volume 0, where Saiki questions why girls keep falling in love with him when he's essentially masquerading as a lamp post.

I have a whole post about the karaoke scene specifically too and battled Tumblr to find it for you (I forgor how long ago I wrote this 😳)

So yeah, Teruhashi finally admits to herself that she's in love with a guy that she barely knows anything about, and yet in the final episodes she struggles to compliment him to his grandfather, which hurts his feelings hsfjdlshfks rip.

You'll have to excuse me for not thinking that this is the height of romance lol.

[homeless202]

I’m new here and I absolutely love your type of blogs with analysis and meta and long texts~~

I was wondering—is Eunyung and Haejoon’s relationship the kind that could be interpreted as romantic?

first of all, welcome and ty! and sorry it took me so long to reply, i hope u're still around anon. now to answer ur question

i'll take this opportunity to share all my thoughts on the topic bc i have Many.

TLDR: it is possible to read it as romantic if you really want to, but it's not meant to (at least not as of right now in the story aka ch.224)

deep dive under the cut as to why

-> can Eunyung and Haejoon’s relationship be interpreted as romantic?

i like how you phrased that bc, the thing is, interpretation is very subjective. you're welcome and allowed to interpret things however you want, but in EY&HJ's case, i feel like you'd have to work a lil extra hard to get to that point.

-> is Eunyung and Haejoon’s relationship meant to be interpreted as romantic?

this one's easy bc no. objectively Not. the genre of No Home is drama and slice of life (and once upon a time, horror). even if they were to ever end up in a romantic relationship, that's not what the story is about.

when i ask myself what the author's intention is with this story, i'd say it's to (realistically) portray how a young person with trauma would navigate another young person's trauma. and showing how easy it is to unintentionally fuck it up for various reasons: lacking context as to what exactly said trauma is, generally not knowing how to navigate it, their own trauma getting in the way, lacking the necessary resources. take your pick.

think of it like "how should i carry someone else's baggage when i have my own to deal with?" while also keeping in mind they're kids; they often don't have enough experience to know how to help, and even when they know what the right thing to do is, they're not old enough to take (legal) action.

and especially, the most heart-breaking yet realistic thing, when you're just getting to know someone, you can't know everything about them. it's so easy to accidentally do or say sth that cuts or offends when it wasn't meant to. but when they've got their own issues, it's hard not to take it personally (eg. EY talking about HJ's parents without knowing his mom died not long ago in the beginning of the story).

-> what even is Eunyung and Haejoon’s relationship??

this one's so funny bc i have no idea how to answer and i'm convinced not even EY and HJ themselves would know how to answer. they're not really friends; they got off on the wrong foot and kept walking with two left feet way too much to call themselves friends. the things that pushed them together the most were the dorms (not anymore) and the same friend group (more or less since EY has multiple).

what fits them best i'd say is "the universe forced us together against our will and now we're stuck with one another altho we hate each other" (<- at least in the beginning) extended with the "misery loves company" sentiment. finding comfort in someone who gets it, even tho they only kinda get it but not really but it works out anyway except it doesn't <- THERE'S NO NAME FOR THAT *cry* they invented a new type of character dynamic smh (i've never read a pairing with so much (romantic) potential only to see them completely fuck up their chance so royally by the end of their interaction EVERY SINGLE TIME. like yeah, enemies to lovers whatever BUT NOT TO THAT LEVEL HOLY SHIT)

they've changed each other, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. they're compatible in the way they understand each other on a deeper level and incompatible in the way they don't.

...however...

this is how HJ thinks of EY: (and also what No Home is truly abt)

and this is how EY feels about HJ after EY found out HJ used to steal as well (aka that HJ isn't perfect like the stuck up bitch EY thought he was at first):

so...

<- -> EY's first impression of HJ was that he was looking down on him and sth like "does this guy have ulterior motives? or is he just that naive being so trusting?" until EY found out HJ wasn't that different from him. after that, EY started admiring HJ for still managing to achieve things in life despite the hardships he had to go through. the type of admiration that can easily (and sometimes does) slip into envy.

-

since the beginning, EY has helped HJ (or at least tried to) without him knowing. sometimes it worked out, sometimes not. most times EY tried doing sth nice for HJ was (from EY's perspective) in return to HJ trying to help him or doing nice things for him (which, again, sometimes worked out, sometimes not). EY was just paying back a debt to "this stubborn naive guy who keeps getting into trouble and butting into his business. gotta look out for this idiot or he might get scammed." (<- eg. when EY offered to get HJ's money back from his uncle)

he doesn't do it for credit or friendship or out of obligation, he's just doing what he thinks is the right thing bc he doesn't want to owe anyone anything. he can't accept people just genuinely being kind, genuinely caring and genuinely wanting to help. but he's been learning and slowly coming to terms with it.

-

<- -> HJ first wanted to try befriending EY despite not liking him bc, well, the guy did steal his wallet and stab him in their first interaction. after trying and failing at it multiple times, thanksgiving happened, and HJ started thinking of EY as his underclassman bc he realized EY's just a kid with issues and he should keep an eye on him (discretely bc EY hates pity).

-

with time HJ has come to understand EY better by going after him whenever he ran off and slowly realized that EY does mean well and has his reasons (as fucked up as they might be sometimes). but his mentality abt EY is still "i gotta push him in the right direction cuz he's my underclassman and i unintentionally got attached to him (somehow??)" (also bc he knows EY already gave up on himself so he needs a lil help to find his way again. also also bc he knows EY is lowkey suicidal and he's scared it'll be his fault if sth happens) <- his care for EY comes from a protective/nurturing (/possibly maybe guilty) place which started when he realized EY was just a kid^^. in other words, HJ still bothers with EY out of a subconscious sense of responsibility/obligation in a way (a good way tho. or at least a way that gets better)

see, sth i struggle with is if HJ thinks he has to or wants to or thinks he should or can't just not help/care for EY. i can't exactly pinpoint where the sentiment is coming from. his face is too blank for me to read sometimes T_T

-

to summarize: HJ is EY's goal, what EY wishes he could've been. and EY is HJ's 'responsibility' so to speak (bc 'burden' doesn't quite fit since HJ is there for EY willingly) -> EY has a positive opinion of HJ while HJ has a neutral opinion of EY (which is also gradually getting better)

note1: i think HJ's intention (maybe subconsciously) was to be to EY what HJ's upperclassman was to him. aka someone who's there when you need it and can help guide you. it would explain why HJ kept chasing after EY despite not really having a reason to and EY repeatedly rejecting HJ's care/help.

note2: i also believe the 'upper-under-classman' relationship dynamic fits them the best atm bc it also matches the way the story often singles EY out as he's the only second year (aka younger) of the 6 MCs.

-> Romance in No Home?

another thing i should mention is that No Home rarely leaves things open for interpretation. the deepest arguments EY&HJ had were always spelled out for us, to make us understand exactly what the problem was, and how there isn't a good guy and a bad guy. it's just two people with issuesTM.

from what we've seen in the story up to this point, i couldn't pick out a moment where i'd go "here! that's romantic! that's the moment they realized SomeThing!" yk

when it comes to romance specifically, i feel like a handful of opportunities were missed. there are scenes which could've easily been written trough a rosy lens but simply weren't.

exhibit A:

HJ was speechless bc "wow this mf really is actively picking a fight with an authority figure. i gotta make sure things don't escalate" not bc "hoLY sHiT hE's PreTTy. all his fangirls are on to something". however, this only becomes more clear when you keep reading the next few chapters, so i understand how you could interpret it as the latter.

exhibit B:

here they got so close and the moment was so deep bc "woaa he said he believes me. no one's said to me that before!". unfortunately, EY was panicking too much for it to mean something bc of the guilt he felt for HJ trusting someone so undeserving of trust like EY.

exhibit C:

this is maybe the closest we got to romantic between these two. i think this might be the only (or at least first) ever deep interaction between them that didn't end in a fight or misunderstanding. is it meant to be romantic tho? -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-> what do i think?

first, full transparency: i went into reading this story fully expecting it to be a BL and for EY&HJ to end up together. but the more i kept on reading, the more i got the ick thinking about them being in a (romantic) relationship bc, at least from what we've seen so far in the story, their relationship would be so ToxicTM (which i personally don't enjoy reading).

as they are right now, i wouldn't want them to be together like that. like, honestly, you still can't really consider these two even friends; they just tolerate each other if the stars align correctly (altho, i'll admit, their relationship is gradually getting better!!). every big argument they had i thought "god, there's no coming back from that. i'd cut ties so quickly if was them wtf". i still don't know how they managed to keep on interacting, props to them ig.

there's a lot of unresolved issues between them. and a lot of resentment which would not bode well in a romantic relationship. the smallest argument would turn explosive and they'd be, at best, in an on&off type of relationship. they both have the power to break the other and neither would be afraid to use it. they have a lot of history together, which is not always pleasant, so if they ever were to go the romantic route, it would have to be a long way to go.

technically, i could see them in a romantic relationship if they both went to therapy first and talked out all the baggage they're carrying (both individual and shared). realistically tho, what i think will happen at the end of No Home is that either they never cross paths again after high school ends (which would absolutely break my heart Wanan pls don't), or they somehow (unintentionally) end up living together bc they both desperately needed a roommate to pay rent (which would be a hilarious fucking gag LMAO). just, HJ going to uni/work and EY doing his own thing (prolly an actor) while still cohabiting together; hanging out to watch a movie before bed <- (whether platonic or romantic being left up for interpretation)

<- -> in conclusion, from what we've seen up to this point, their relationship is mainly upper-under-classman; reluctant (maybe) friends who tolerate each other but also care (too) deeply. they've changed each other, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. in some ways they're compatible and in others they're not.

all this being said, their relationship is improving and romance between EY&HJ is not impossible, just rather unlikely imo. but, again, interpretation is subjective and u're welcome to read their relationship however you want.

[shmisky]

Of course you guys would vote for the hardest meta to write! 😭 ✨

Okay, let’s go! Teen Stans + “suffocating,” an attempt to understand the issues of their relationship from teen Ford’s point of view and the reason(s) for their separation. This is going to be long, but hopefully all the pictures and gifs make it an easier reading! There’s just so much to unpack...

It’s a sad subject in and of itself, but I did my best to wrap it all with a happier stancesty note! So trust the process! 🩷

I don’t think I need to point out, to most stancest shippers, where the word “suffocating” comes from. It was a very memorable scene, if nothing else, since a lot of people hated Ford for it.

[x]

I think it’s so obvious that Ford was projecting and actually talking about his and Stan’s relationship here that I won’t even attempt to prove that, hahah.

Now, is this Ford... A) talking about his true feelings regarding his and Stan’s relationship when he was young, even before the science fair incident, or B) lying to himself, as he presumably started to do ever since (but only after) the science fair incident?

First, I’d like to invite you to actually listen to Ford’s voice/watch his mannerisms as he says this, here (timestamped). The thing is that... he doesn’t sound very bitter! He doesn’t sound like he’s throwing shade at Stan. Instead, he sounds and looks—pay attention to his eyebrows—like he’s genuinely puzzled. Does Dipper... really think he’s not meant for something more? Why! He’s so brilliant, with so much potential! Just like Ford when he was younger! The poor boy must be really attached to his sister...

Second, I’d like to invite you to not be so harsh on Ford, as he says that it, nor she is suffocating—the relationship Dipper has with the girl, not the girl herself. Not that Ford can’t be mean! He can be terribly mean, sometimes, especially out of spite. But the man has some limits. He wouldn’t say this about his twelve-year-old niece.

Another thing to be taken into consideration is that Ford was convinced Mabel would be fine, since she had a magnetic personality. This is a trait he very likely also attributes to Stan! In TBoB, for example, he was convinced of Stan’s ability to make the waitress laugh. There’s a lot of evidence for the fact that Ford had no idea of how badly Stan was faring and/or would fare without him, due to the idealized version of Stan Pines in his head.

That said, here is the behind-the-scenes commentary on Dipper and Mabel vs. the Future:

Alex Hirsch: Ford offers Dipper [an] apprenticeship because Ford sees Dipper as somebody who’s special like himself. And that’s Ford’s great flaw, that arrogance. He believes there are special people and everyone else.

Jason Ritter: And that you can be held back by your siblings, maybe.

Alex Hirsch: Yeah, he believes that attachments are actually weaknesses.

It has been said before Alex is too harsh on Ford, hahah. Perhaps he is. But that’s something also made canon in J3 in many, many excerpts, and stated by Ford himself quite plainly here:

“I thought being a great man meant being alone.”

When did he start developing this mindset, though? Before or after the science fair?

I think some of you might have read the (in)famous TVInsider 2016 interview in which Alex states Ford saw his brother as a “bumbling leech” (ouch!) his “entire life.”

In terms of Stan and his brother’s conflict, we always wanted a moment where Ford saw that he was wrong. Ford’s spent an entire life imagining himself as this lone solitary hero and imagining his brother as this bumbling leech. From a narrative point of view, for Ford to see Stan be the hero finally lets Ford see the true side of his brother that he’s been too blinded by pride to see.

Now, an important fact is that—I think many people fail to grasp this—Ford looking down on Stan doesn’t mean Ford not loving Stan. My boy can and will multitask!

And, of course, “entire life” didn’t actually mean Ford’s entire life! It was definitely an exaggeration on Alex’s part, meant to convey that for most of Ford’s life, presumably from late teen years old to the current age, Ford looked down on his brother.

We know for sure that baby Ford never looked down on Stan, and in fact defended him from the Sibling Brothers in the last Lost Legends comic!

But one thing we also see is how baby Ford already shares, to a certain extent, adult Ford’s ambition:

Another trait, equally important, early on: the tendency to think he was special and/or different from everyone else, for better or for worse. Like one of the very first things Stan told us in his childhood retelling in AToTS, “As if his abnormally high IQ wasn’t enough, he also had a rare birth defect: six fingers on each hand. Which might have explained his obsession with sci-fi mystery weirdness.”

As he grows up, he also grows, understandably, very proud of his accomplishments. In Stan’s words, “Ford’s brains seemed to get more impressive every year.”

He grows to embrace the “freak” part of him more and more, both ashamed and proud of not fitting in. Like Bill so gently phrased it in TBoB: “The ego of a king. The insecurity of a circus freak.”

But what does this mean for his relationship with Stan?

I think the first thing we have to know is that Stan is Ford’s identical twin, something that is heavily alluded to in canon and confirmed by Word of God. The first comment from Alex regarding this matter that I could find was this tweet from 2015. Then it was further confirmed in the DVD commentaries.

Why is this even important? Twins of the same gender, especially identical aka monozygotic twins, tend to struggle with identity issues. Not only the same birthday, but the same face—that without having to share even a name.

The second thing is that they only ever had each other. I talk more about their codependency here.

Again, I borrow Alex’s words when asked about Shermie’s role in the family as Stan and Ford’s brother in a 2023 interview:

In terms of Shermie, I remember asking Rob or somebody at some point, like, “Would Shermie be here, logically? Do we have to see him?” I don’t really wanna see him. I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in Stan and Ford being—sort of having only each other and then losing each other because of their different life paths.

The best example we have of this in the show is probably Stan’s line in AToTS, “Those bullies may have been right about us not making many friends, but when push comes to shove, you only really need one.” Stan not only acknowledges their dynamic, but sounds very content with it.

Was Ford content with it, tough? That’s... more complicated.

Like we’ve established, these two were identical twins (unlike Dipper and Mabel, fraternal and of different genders) and only had each other (again, unlike Dipper and Mabel), which not only exacerbated their codependency but also their identity issues. They were used to being two halves of a whole. It’s very telling that in AToTS, “the Pines twins” are both called to the principal’s office, even though only Ford should have been called. They were seen as a single entity.

And don’t get me wrong, Ford has always loved Stan so much. Perhaps part of him even enjoyed the fact his brother trusted and leaned on him so much, depended on him both emotionally and to... get a passing grade.

But for some reason, even before the science fair... things still grew quite awkward. From Stan’s Land Before Swine commentary (DVD extras):

Anyway, cut to high school, the guy’s never kissed a girl, prom is coming up, and he asked me for advice. “Stanley, I know things have been a little weird between you and me with college, but can you talk to me about girls?”

The interesting thing here, to me, is that Ford... straight up recognized the “weirdness” between them to Stan’s face! And the fact Ford felt the need to mention it, as if he couldn’t simply ask his own twin brother for advice about girls without making a sort of acknowledgement first! These brothers once told each other everything! How did things get to this point?

But wait... Stan says “prom is coming up”... The same prom at which they laughed together and shared a moment of camaraderie after Stan threw punch at himself to share Ford’s humiliation.

Which to me points to the fact it was something gradual, happening little by little, hand in hand with the sweetest moments in their teen years. It’s truly like this song in my (locked) stancest playlist:

Two birds on a wire

One tries to fly away

And the other watches him close from that wire

He says he wants to as well

But he is a liar

Imagine you’re Ford Pines. You know you are special. You’re both a genius and a freak. You are always praised by adults around you, by teachers, and finally, by your very difficult to please father. This starts to go to your head. You cling desperately to the “genius” part of your identity, so you can be more than a bullied freak. You grow even more ambitious. You can see a future for yourself.

You have a twin brother. You love him more than life itself. But everyone talks, and... aren’t they right, somewhat? Just a little bit right? Stanley isn’t a genius, like you are. That’s a fact. Stanley also doesn’t have ambition, like you have. Stanley isn’t a freak, like you are. It doesn’t mean Stanley isn’t cool! But you are... different from him...

And yet, despite all that, he’s your identical twin brother! You can only ever be one half of a duo. A single entity. Even your name, you share with him. He doesn’t seem bothered by that, but you are. Can’t you just be Ford, for once, no Stan? (Ironically, you miss the fact that your brother was always more under your shadow than you ever were under his.)

You start to think that the Stan O’ War isn’t anything more than a beautiful, but ultimately childish, dream. It isn’t very realistic, is it? You could be so much more than that. You could actually make a difference. You could prove everyone wrong about ever calling you a freak. You try to breach the subject with Stanley, but all he wants to talk about is this damn boat. And you care about it too, of course you do, but... Doesn’t he care about anything else?

I can see, so easily, the influence of other people on Ford slowly (and subconsciously) growing, even though his love for Stan didn’t diminish. I can see him noticing the mismatch between his ambition and Stan’s ambition, his academic achievements and Stan’s academic achievements... or lack thereof. Again, this is the teenage version of the little boy getting starry-eyed about seeing his own face in the papers. Except now, the possibility of Stan being there with him... doesn’t seem as likely.

I can see, also very easily, Ford having some intrusive thoughts, then immediate guilt over them. For example, after someone mocks Stan for his grades, Ford comforts him while thinking, “but yeah, maybe Stanley could really put more effort in—wait, what? He’s my best friend! I can’t think like that about him!”

Stan’s narration: “The future was looking bright... for both of us.” Oh, Stan... Ford’s smile looks painfully awkward.

Just notice the difference between Ford’s posture and body language there and here in college!Ford’s picture (and, again, look at Ford’s eyebrows, but also the way he leans in Stan’s direction):

It’s important to remember that this, too—the scene in which Ford smiles awkwardly—was before West Coast Tech.

But now, with West Coast Tech, he finally has something solid. Something tangible. A real way to make a name for himself. And he loves it. Now this is the face of true happiness, hahah!

He manages to win even the approval of his famously “not impressed” father!

But...

He’s visibly very upset by having his brother insulted like that, and he didn’t know Stan was on the other side of the door overhearing their whole conversation. But he also doesn’t defend his brother, like Stan likely would have, and Stan doesn’t see Ford’s facial expression, here. He just hears silence from him.

And then... Oh boy, the swingset talk.

“Joke’s on them if they think you wanna go to some stuffy college on the other side of the country,” Stan says, then proceeds to boast about their future adventures, only to end it all with a painful expression that shows he doesn’t believe what he is saying. He knows what Ford is truly going to choose.

Stan asks him what would happen if the college board was impressed with his experiment. “Well then, I guess you better come visit me on the other side of the country!” Which indicates he clearly didn’t expect Stan to come with him, either.

Then The Accident happens, and Ford reacts accordingly.

[x] [x] [x]

I’ve mentioned this on another post, but it’s fascinating to me that Ford knew what would cause Stan to do something like sabotage his machine. He doesn’t accuse his brother of feeling jealous of his success! Oh no, that’s not your typical sibling drama of competitiveness, nor lack of communication. Instead, he accuses Stan of sabotaging his machine so Ford would stay with him! And, while it had been just an accident... He’s right about Stan’s feelings.

We know Stan’s feelings about this. He says, with all the letters: “Without Ford, I was just half of a dynamic duo. I couldn’t make it without him. And now, thanks to that dumb college, I was gonna lose my brother forever.” I know the “forever” was perhaps Stan being a bit melodramatic (understandable considering his distress) but it also shows us he didn’t expect their relationship to go back to normal, or for the college to be just one passing fancy. He knew it would be just the start of his brother’s career.

And perhaps this is the last thing you’d expect me to bring up at this point, but...

Do you remember this episode? Little Gift Shop of Horrors?

We talk about Ford projecting on Dipper about a relationship being “suffocating,” but Stan was doing some impressive amount of projecting here too, hah, considering that he was more likely than not making up all the stories.

Just. This entire conversation:

Stan couldn’t be more unsubtle if he tried. And of course, Waddles chooses Mabel, his favorite person in the world. We know whose “favorite person” Stan wants to be...

I bet you would’ve liked for Ford to jump into your arms, Stan!

But again, back to Ford.

Yay, Ford is free of his suffocating relationship with Stan! Free to do things like looking at pictures of Stan with yearning! Writing that he misses Stan in code while yearning! Staring at the Gravity Falls’ lake with yearning because it reminds him of Stan! The last one in particular is very amusing to me because to study anomalies was basically Ford’s dream job and he loved Gravity Falls and... and yet! (You might want to read this for the full extent of Ford’s clownery.)

Free, too, to actively attempt replacing Stan with Fiddleford, Bill, and then Dipper! Because, again, he yearns!

Yeah, I know... Ford is quite confusing. What does he want? Everything and nothing, at the same time?

And now I need you to bear 🐻 with me and read this entire excerpt of the 2023 interview, most important parts highlighted in bold by yours truly:

Ford was very much us building backwards. The same way you know a black hole is there by the light warped around it, it’s like, you know the damage someone’s family has done to them by all of their weird tics and behaviors. So who is the character who would result in Stan being this hurt and needy and mad and also longing?

And so we came up with this guy who kinda seemed too perfect. And is distant. He’s aloof, and distant, and he’s too perfect. And it’s like, “oh! I think he’s also aloof and distant from himself.”

I think he is, uh, deeply deeply hiding from his real feelings about things, because at some point early on, he decided that he could run from hurt by achievement and by creation, and has dug that hole so deep that he has no relationships. He doesn’t have friendships, he doesn’t have romantic relationships, he is someone trapped in a tower of his own mind and estranged.

(Alexa, play Oh No! by Marina and the Diamonds. Love using old memes.)

The stancest fandom has had for some time (as early as it existed!) a very interesting theory that Ford’s romantic feelings for Stan were the cause of Ford’s “suffocation.” And while I do subscribe to this theory myself—I mean, if you read the excerpt above as a shipper, especially my highlighted parts, it is extremely validating of this interpretation—I prefer to not disregard the other reasons why Ford might have felt this way, either! To me, for a better understanding of Ford, even cesty Ford, you have to put all the puzzle pieces together. Identity issues, an explosive mix of ego and self-loathing, growing ambition, and only then, as the cherry on top: Ford’ incestuous tendencies. You have the perfect dessert! Or a recipe for disaster...

My headcanon might even read as a bit contradictory, I know. Teen Ford growing more in love with Stan and growing to look down on Stan? At the same time? But this is Stanford Pines, you guys. A walking contradiction. The man is basically made of conflicting feelings. Cognitive dissonance is his hobby.

We know Ford has always loved Stan very deeply—and yearned for his company just as badly—through his entire adult life. So what, exactly, changed in old Ford for him to invite Stan to sail away together again, post-Weirdmaggedon?

Well.

First, he spent forty (40) years separated from Stan, and then almost lost him forever (or at least their relationship), from a certain point of view. Have you ever heard that saying that you only know the value of something or someone after you lose it? Teen Ford had never lost Stan, and didn’t know how much he would miss him. (Alexa, play Let Her Go by Passenger...)

On that same note, all those years separated allowed him to develop a personality and identity of his own, and a very defined and strong one at that. (Yes, poor Stan meanwhile spent that time pretending to be Ford. Ironic.) The Stan twins have also managed to be competent at what was once their weak spot, something they relied fully on their brother for. Stan has managed to learn and understand complex physics to fix the portal. Ford, on the other hand (and we’re focusing more on his feelings, here), has definitely learned how to defend himself physically.

Second, Ford was severely humbled by the narrative. He thought he would get to be the hero, when the hero was actually his brother. “Stanley Pines was the man who saved the world, not me.” His pride was a great barrier between him and Stan. And on what regards his self-loathing and subsequent thirst for external validation, he has learned to seek love in the right places! His family. Stan.

Stan, who always loved him unconditionally, who never considered him a freak in the first place. Stan, who is now his priority, above his scientific ambition.

And finally, third—the incestuous feelings headcanon. Why repress, Ford? Jump Stan! 😌 💋 That is something they can... resolve between themselves, if you catch my drift. They have all the time in the world stuck together, just the two of them, on a small boat.

Have I finished yapping? No, not yet, not quite. I need to wrap things up with another excerpt from the 2023 interview, aka my favorite interview ever:

[...] and it’s always sweet to see them come together again, because they’re so full of themselves, but they are also both so damaged they desperately need each other.

Diversity wins! The codependency of your gay incestuous ship is mutual! 🥳

After all, like Ford himself said, “I don’t just want someone to come with me, Stanley, I want it to be you.”

[kimbapisnotsushi]

you seem to have a good read on HQ and your takes are great, so i have a question...and if you'd rather not go there, please ignore this! but i see oikawa get called "arrogant" quite often and i'm curious, would you say he is? what is it that makes people think that? imo he has a plenty of flaws, but i truly don't think arrogance is one of them. self-centered, sure, but not arrogant i think. i'm open to being wrong, i'm just legit so confused by that particular criticism, it makes me doubting my reading comprehension. i feel like that one post that's like "free my man, he didn't do that. he did a lot of other stuff tho" LOL. if you do answer this, then thanks for your time!

oh, dear anon. this is a very very big question and i'm honored you think i am capable of providing an answer that does it justice!! i don't consider myself an oikawa expert by far, but i'll do my best because he's still very beloved to me, and i hope whatever i say helps!

(but also - maybe take what i say with a grain of salt LMAO)

anyways, to get the main point out of the way: i completely agree that oikawa isn't arrogant! i actually haven't seen any commentary about that myself (bless!!!), so i can't say for sure why some people might think that, but my guess is that they think his pridefulness = arrogance — they think that the confidence he has in himself and seijoh contributes nothing to their actual power and is utterly meaningless if they don't win, especially in the face of ushijima. which, like, come on. what kind of captain would he be if he wasn't confident in himself and his teammates? is he supposed to tell them that they're going to lose??? is he supposed to discourage their hard work and effort???

or maybe it's because oikawa acts like he's all that, but doesn't have anything to show for it. who does he think he is? what does he think his pride is worth? what right does he have to go around making grand declarations when he has nothing to his name?

(which isn't entirely true, either, but we'll get into that, promise.)

now, do i think that he can, occasionally, be flippant, shallow, and/or petty? yeah, sure. he's got one hell of a personality about it. even iwaizumi says as much. oikawa is great at being a little shit. it's one of my favorite things about him!

but is oikawa genuinely arrogant, or self-centered? well . . . i don't think so.

see, here's the thing about oikawa: he knows he's good, but he doesn't think he's good enough. i think it'd be easiest to really explain what that meant if we broke this down into two separate parts, so let's give it a go, shall we?

(buckle up, friends, because it's about to get LONG. also: TIMESKIP SPOILERS!! and there's a tldr at the start of the tags because. WOW.)

so, first things first: if people are calling oikawa arrogant, then i'm like 99% sure that they don't actually know what the word "arrogant" means.

"arrogant" is used to describe someone full of themselves. it's used to describe someone conceited and pompous. it's used to describe someone so assured of and invested in their self-importance that they don't care for other people, and if it seems like they do, then it's usually wildly off the mark and still serves to inflate their own egos.

oikawa has never once been like that. he's been pretty much the exact opposite, in fact.

and yeah, sure, by his third year of high school, he knows he's good at volleyball, and that's fine! it's perfectly all right to claim you're good at something if you have the skills/experience to back it up. confidence is healthy as long as it isn't in overabundance, and we actually see a lot of this throughout the series!

(not to mention that this was where ushijima fell short. he was overflowing with confidence. he did not believe, for even a single second, that hinata shouyou and his meager, scrappy little flock of crows could beat him.

but oikawa? he knew. he knew what it looked like to make something bloom.)

the key to oikawa's confidence that made him better was that he could pinpoint others' strengths and weaknesses just as well as he could with his own. and (bear with me, please, i might get kind of boring here bc it's nothing that hasn't been said in the manga before) i don't mean it in the way we see the coaches or more analytical players do, as observations to be taken advantage of by everyone else; i mean that in the sense of how vital it is to his position as a setter. that was always the biggest difference between oikawa and kageyama: no matter how much more raw talent kageyama had, no matter how much better oikawa believed him to be, kageyama, especially in the beginning, struggled to do what oikawa could with a team. kageyama struggled to bring out the best in each player. and it wasn't because he didn't know how -- oikawa freely admitted that kageyama had the skill for it, that kageyama, once he got his shit together, could win against him -- it was because kageyama didn't have that same confidence in himself.

(not until much later, anyways. but that's another story, for another time.)

so, oikawa's confident. he knows he's good. he can bring out the best in each player. he's got a killer serve (and a killer smile!), a mind for tactics that borders on machievallianism, and cherishes the trust he is given like it's something precious. his coaches let him lead without leaning on them. his team has the utmost respect and admiration for him. he has a reputation. from karasuno to shiratorizawa to the whole of miyagi -- there is not a single character who knows oikawa tooru and would believe that he is, in any way, bad at volleyball.

but it's not enough. despite all of that, oikawa still doesn't think he's good enough. and that, friends, brings us to the second point.

oikawa tooru is nothing if not passionate.

so were the others, of course. kageyama kept going after his grandfather's death. hinata kept going while being a nobody from nowhere with no one to back him up. atsumu kept going while osamu didn't. it's not even about just those who went pro -- kenma, kuroo, noya, and everyone else found things that they were passionate about and kept going with it. the entire story revolves around loving what you do and trying to keep that love alive, and, sometimes, that can be really, really difficult when it seems like it doesn't love you back.

oikawa was so insecure over kageyama to the point where he nearly decked the poor kid. oikawa got crushed by ushijima-- who kept telling him that his team was not good enough, that his choices were not good enough, that there was nothing good enough to be proud of -- for years in a row. oikawa was taught that there would always be someone better than him no matter how skilled he was, but if he let that stop him then he didn't fucking belong on the court in the first place.

oikawa tooru is intimately acquainted with not being good enough, but he keeps trying to be. he keeps going. he tries to keep the love alive even if he's not loved back. he pushes and practices and takes a plane far from home to become even better. even if he doesn't have the skill, even if he doesn't have the talent, even if he doesn't have the love -- he still has his pride. and what does that mean, in the end? how far does that take him?

in the end, oikawa tooru walks across a world stage and sees people who believed in him on the other side and calls it a family reunion. in the end, he gets to play the volleyball that reminds him of why he loves it and how it gives him so much love back. in the end, his pride is unyielding and unbreakable, a product of the forge. he molded it with his own two hands. he will not let it falter so easily.

arrogance would not have taken oikawa tooru this far. i hope this has proven that he is anything but.

remember: instinct is something you polish. talent is something you make bloom. and never, ever let anyone else tell you what your pride is worth.