#also with todd it's like. worse

[dongslinger--420]

No but you don't get it. Boane IS Boherb. Every decision that BoJack makes in regards to Diane is based on his time with Herb. It's why he always stays in her corner when she's at her worst. It's why he kisses her directly after he falls out with Herb. It's why he recognises that she doesn't owe him forgiveness, and doesn't ask her for it. He saw Diane as many things, but one of the largest ones was that he saw her as a second attempt of his friendship with Herb. They even have a sky motif.

[random-lil-illing]

i had a vision,,, asexual dps fans what do we think

[dukeofthomas]

Here's my controversial opinion; if you're trying to write Bruce as a non-abusive, good parent, you should also write him respecting his kids' privacy, boundaries, and not stalking&surveying them.

[batcavescolony]

You know what I find funny about the fanonization of Tim Drake? In fanon content he's like seen as meek, weak, shy when canon Tim Drake is the opposite. Canon Tim's favorite game is jump rope with boundaries. He will do genetic experiments on his friends, he literally became Robin because he dug into the bats business, he stalks so many people. Canon Tim is a little shit who talked back to Jason as he was getting his ass beat. Canon Tim isn't meek or weak or shy, he's a funky lill freak, who will make it known if he hates you or likes you.

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

love that jason is just

literally any character: i feel like things can’t get any worse from here

jason, showing up out of nowhere: GUESS AGAIN MOTHERFUCKER

[weirdo-from-bonesborough]

Arkham Knight!Jason and Joker Junior!Tim and Dicky Boy!Dick and Birds of Prey Movie!Cass learn they’re all siblings in other worlds and create the most dysfunctional group of anti-heroes known to mankind. Even worse than the suicide squad because the suicide squad had actual goals whereas these guys just have “steal shit” and maybe “kidnap Batman and Joker and decide which one is our father and which one we should kill”

[erinwantstowrite]

I might be wrong, but didn't Roy also first meet Jason when he was 15 and Roy was in his 20s?

I've always thought their ship was kinda weird.

my little brother is only two years younger than me, but with the way our birthdays fall, he was three years behind me in school. so when i was a senior, my brother was a freshman. (for anyone not american: when i was 17, he was 15, but the age gaps between a freshman and a senior are usually a little larger and developmentally, it's a big deal.) we were both in band together and both pretty well known pretty fast. which meant that other freshman felt comfortable to go up to me and talk despite me being a senior (which was fine, because i was a section leader and i wanted all freshman to feel comfy enough to ask me questions and talk). and sometimes, that conversation would be about my little brother, asking if he was in a relationship and blah blah blah. THAT was adorable to me (with context, my brother was a little shit in middle school but when he got to highschool he suddenly decided he wanted to be a downright gentleman and got super embarrassed by this so i often teased him LMFAOO)

however. there was ONE person in my grade (that i was close friends with!!) that said "if your brother was a senior too, I'd date him"

shit was NOT CUTE. i was flabbergasted. i was appalled, even. even as an innocent comment, it freaked me out and i went full big sibling mode. tore that person a new one because that's literally my baby brother what the hell are you talking about????

now imagine that the age gap is even larger? nah, if it was my little brother the person would be DEAD. even if we were close friends before then. which is why im confused why the Jayroy ship is as popular or accepted as it is... like i know the batman fandom are fucking weirdos (looking at batcest shippers you fucking freaks i hope you feel embarrassed and shamed) but this ship slipped through the cracks i think and not everyone is aware of that age gap or why it's weird. at most i've seen people comment about dick being like "you're dating my little brother??" but not like. in the way of "hey what the fuck that age gap is fucking weird" and instead as "you can't date my family!!" ummmmmmmmm

[mikakuna]

the way people care more about jason fighting tim than like any other rogue fighting tim during his robin run is...!

"they're brothers! jason is so horrible to attack his little brother."

aside from the obvious twinkification of tim, stop pushing the family narrative on two people who did not see each other as siblings at that moment.

[liedownquisition]

Jason Todd's timeline and "Age"

So, there's a lot of discussion of Jason Todd's age esp as relative to other sidekick vigilantes, particularly Tim and Mia. I believe the exact words are usually something about a "grown ass man beating up/trying to kill teenagers."

DISCLAIMER: This particular post is specifically regarding the "grown ass man vs teenagers" statement, I have posts regarding the "tried to kill them" portion and other stuff like "seriously Jason Todd is like being shot by a marshmallow gun compared to what goes on directly before and after him in these incidents, also you don't bitch about the right stuff, also a lot of you prop up characters who are Objectively Worse, and no that's not hate on your fave it's just me calling out hypocrisy". It just takes time to find digital copies of the panels I'm using. NOTE I AM NOT JUSTIFYING HIS ACTIONS. I'm just saying y'all blow it out of proportion for petty character hate. Like, shit, they're superheroes. Jason's soooo fuckin' tame. He's not even framed as a big deal to the teens it's only the adults that think it's that much of a problem.

Courtesy readmore post cut:

Now, to start off, we all know Jason died at 15 & a few months off from 16 (if you want me to dig up panels, sure, but I figured at this point that wasn't in question). Tim at this point is somewhere between 12-13, and we have this panel in Lonely Place of Dying which takes place a few months later:

So that's a ballpark of 2-3 years between Jason and Tim.

But Tim's age is really fucky and they keep de-aging him tbh. We can extrapolate that his confrontation with Jason was between the ages of 16-17 bcs it's after the arc where he has his incredibly shitty 16th birthday in Robin Vol2 #116 and before Red Robin where he's stated to be 17. This would put Jason between 18-19 at the time. (If you really want me to find panel sources for Tim's birthday and his age in RR then, sure, but I don't think they're necessary. I used it more as a guidepost for Jason's age, since we have a clear idea of what the age gap is.)

At least, on paper.

Mia for her part I've had a hard time finding like, on panel mentions of her age and if anyone can direct me to it being explicitly stated I'd love that. I'm rereading old comics but it's a LOT of comics to hunt down & dig through. To my understanding she was fifteen when Ollie first met her, and there's at Minimum of about a year and a half between that to her meeting Red Hood, more likely at least two? because there's at least few months between that and her joining the Titans, the Doctor Light stuff, then One Year Later, and then returned to Star some 3 months after Ollie came back to run for mayor? And then Jason not too long after. So, two years feels safe. Puts her at 17-ish, Jason at 19-20

Once again, I specify: on paper.

People would happily point out at this point that the upward stretch of a 4 year age gap is a "huge gap in maturity." And yeah, under normal circumstances, I'd agree.

But, and this is going to get contradictory bcs I found Two different timelines (BOTH written by Winick, lmao), and depending on how you read it it could be up to three different possibilities. Let's Start with Batman Annual #25: Daedalus & Icarus.

Timestamp before Jason's resurrection, which is pretty well known at this point:

Next, him waking up from a coma afterwards, when he escapes the hospital:

Now the above could be interpreted as either 1 year after he died if we're assuming that it's using the same "start" point to count as the resurrection (unlikely), or one year after he came back (more likely).

Next, the timestamp right before a guy recognizes him and sells him out:

And, finally, the timestamp before being put in the Pit:

That is, count it up, between 3-3 1/2 years where Jason was dead, in a coma, or otherwise not particularly... cognizant of the world around him. His ass is NOT developing emotionally, socially, or mentally like this, which pretty handily bridges the gaps there. Taken at face value, Jason's maturity level is going to be, unironically, younger than Tim's in the wake of these setbacks.

Now, if we go to Lost Days issue 1, it doesn't specify how long he was dead, nor how long he was in a coma, so we'll just carry those two over, what we DO have is this from just after Talia brought him home:

This puts him as being on the streets for five months, so we're at just shy of two years so far. And then we have this:

Which is right before Talia puts him in the Pit.

So, in summary: 6 months dead, 1 year coma, 5 months on the street, and something like 1-1 1/2 years with the League which...

Actually puts us on almost the exact same timeframe either way. 3 to 3 1/2 years. It just changes whether Jason was on the streets or with the League for longer.

And is utterly incomprehensible because comic timelines are a freaking nightmare.

If we're being generous, then that would put Jason at a minimum of 19, maybe toeing the line of 20 for UTRH, again, on paper, because like hell are you convincing me he did less than a year's worth of training abroad throughout Lost Days. Yeah maybe they trained him in fighting while he was catatonic, muscle memory and all that. But the other teachers that we KNOW of? The bombs, guns, probably something to get him up to date on handling all that tech we see him using, Egon, potentially arguably All-Caste if you want to draw from n52...

but you'd have to knock at least a year and a half off of his internal/personal development from death & coma, at minimum. Maybe you could argue he was somewhat developing while in his "the lights are on, but nobody's home" phase, you can't say it's at the same level as a normal person might when going about their day to day life, and it's difficult to measure. But he's not hitting the kind of milestones that he should be for his age. I wouldn't put him at anything less than two years behind. So if we use our upper estimates on Jason, and lower estimates on both the developmental setbacks and Tim/Mia's ages that gives us:

Jason toeing 20, mentally 18, fighting Tim at 16. 2 year gap, kind of stretching the physical age gap if we assume Tim had just barely turned 13 when he showed up to be Robin. - OR LESS

Jason maybe 21, mentally 19, fighting Mia at 17, two year age gap again. Honestly, still not that big of a difference - OR LESS

And, to be frank, that's not even counting the mental development issues that come from the intense physical trauma from dying - and I swear to fuck don't give me the "He's not the only one who died he's not special" speech.

HOW MANY OF THE OTHERS YOU'RE USING AS A GOTCHA LOST, *GESTURING AGGRESSIVELY ABOVE*, LITERALLY MULTIPLE YEARS OF THEIR LIFE.

Not counting adults, of course. Barry lost years, Hal lost years, Ollie I think also lost a couple years? but A) they came back still adults, bodies pretty much the same. B) While Jason's body didn't go through a magic growth spurt in canon, it did still grow esp while with the League.

I'll eventually get around to Titan's Tower & GA#72 (tbh, there are other people who've already done Titan's Tower and it'd probably be better than what I do, so I'm more going to focus on the latter, but there IS a specific part of the former that drives me nuts that I don't see brought up a lot), and maybe if we're feeling spicy all my issues with UTRH starting with how Winick is just as guilty of retroactively writing Jason as being inherently a bad penny since his Robin days as any of the other "modern" writers. Like, bud, Severe enough Head Trauma is legitimately enough to change someone's personality, not to mention trauma. It wouldn't hurt your narrative for that eerie difference, the Shade of What Once Was if you're really going for RH being Like that.

Final addition: I swear to god if you use my post to start up some kind of petty-ass ship war or flame other characters I will immediately turn off reblogs and replies I am Not Dealing With That Shit, please and thank you.

Anyways, @glitter-stained, your interest made me decide to actually put the work in now to pull it up rather than passively gather stuff to dump whenever discourse pushes me over the edge so, here ya are. Looks like you did have it closer on the mark than I did.

[mamawasatesttube]

kon sweetie im so fucking sorry that someone would even say something stupid like that oh my god.

[clockworkcheetah]

didn't list characters working for blackwing cause they're already kinda in the villain zone as is but still welcome to choose them

i just think its interesting that most dghda characters (imo) are morally grey as is and through choice could be a good guy or bad guy depending (aka they could get worse or get better)

feel free to explain in the tags (just y'know be civil and don't needlessly start character bashing that's not what this poll is)

[helldritch6211]

If i re wrote red hood outlaws + arsenal n red would you want to see snippets of that or would you roast me on a pike?

[quadrantadvisor]

tl;dr: I think being trapped in a time loop would fix him

[Plain text under the cut]

I read like two different jason time loop fics which both featured jason coming to the cave for help or resources when people didn't expect him there which makes me think that the loop helped make jason aware that he could come to his family for help and anyways jason gets stuck in a time loop shortly after becoming the Red Hood bruce is aware or at least suspects his identity but he hasnt communicated that to anyone else yet so for a couple of loops jason tries to figure out what's going on but all of his league contacts are either unhelpful or unreachable within the time frame and he gets frustrated and he spends a while just. living out all of his sadistic fantasies he gets to do every dramatic reveal, he gets to kill each one of them, and they're spitting and defiant and telling him he isn't the jason who died but after a while it stops being satisfying and he gets desperate for a way out he knows by this point that bruce hasn't told anyone about him, so his new plan is to talk to one of them away from bruce and just lie Dick is the obvious choice, and that's how jason finds out that dick has been hallucinating him while he's been gone he is not very useful. it's really hard to convince him that jason is legit and then he just gets really emotional and doesn't pay attention to the time loop at all also jason feels really weird about it

so he tries tim. he's like. okay. he doesn't know you're the red hood. you just have to be civil to him for one loop and when it turns out he can't do anything you try something else but tim is also like. really emotional about him apparently? but when jason tells him there's a time loop he takes it really seriously tim is like "why didn't you go to bruce?" and jason is like "i tried that. when he finds out he makes it worse" which is a very plausible thing for someone in a time loop to say so tim believes him Tim's like "obviously i have to verify" and jason is thinking to himself what a waste of time this all is. but tim gets his permission to bring babs in on things and that's how jason finds out about oracle and the clocktower so thats useful at least they use babs equipment for blood tests and tim grills jason on things only he would know and jason is like. hey. why do you know any of that stuff and by the time that tim is satisfied that Jason is who he says he is and that what he says is happening is happening the day is basically over and jason is like well thanks for nothing

and Tim's like, oh, sorry, this is just the setup. next time just tell me this timeloop code, I'll know that I trusted you enough to give it to you so I'll listen to whatever you say which actually does work to Jason's surprise, tim just asks him how many times and what they've already tried and they get down to business tim always has a freakout over jason being alive but that freakout can come at different times of the day depending on how jason plays it jason is still mad at tim and frequently snappy with him but it takes a few loops for him to just yell at tim that he's the red hood and he's been killing people and he was planning on killing tim (not strictly true originally but like. he has done it, so) and tim is like. hm. that makes it pretty personally dangerous for you to know my time loop code, since it makes me just drop everything and listen to whoever says it. but also i think you do need help so i guess I'm still glad you have it. and jason is like WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

anyways on a later loop tim convinces him to sneak into the bag cave for the tech and bruce catches them there and jason is like well that's this loop shot but bruce is just like ……. jason? 🥺 you came home? anyways the fic is about jason realizing that he never needed to do all that shit, and actually he finds it rather distasteful, and he can just. go home. if he wants on the last loop he has to like leave gotham to go stop whatever is causing this and it takes all day so he doesn't even talk to them so he has to make the real choice to start up relationships with all of them for keeps and by that point he's experienced so much time loop violence that the first thing he says to bruce is, I'm not gonna kill anyone, at least for now. we can talk about the morality of it and stuff and i will legitimately discuss it with you but right now i just don't want to so that can be our truce and bruce is like, sobbing at having his kid back he uses the code on tim one last time and tim jerks to attention but Jason's like nah relax the loop is over, just wanted to say thanks for all the help

[geeky-nightphilosopher]

You know what's scary to think about?

The fact that ALL the batkids can wield mjölnr.

But only like three of them could survive doing the actual snap.

But on an even more terrifying note- imagine the entire DC comics world if Thanos snapped in that world.

[good--merits-accumulated]

going through some old left-for-dead projects and just found this one where I was like. INTENT on dissecting jeff's brain on the operating table (i.e. google docs) but only from todd's weird skewed pov

[professor voice] it's about brothers as eternal combatants and it's about being so convinced of your own goodness you excuse your shitty actions. it's also about comparing yourself to a dog because you feel less fully formed than your brother. lol.

[themyscirah]

Vanessa didn't even die and yet her story is still sadder and more fucked up than jtodd's. He wishes he was on her level