#also like… people change? Christian people can be both gay and straight like any other type of person?

[blacksapphhicmaddonna]

I met letita lmao like before all this hype and she told me she was straight we are both also Christians too

then why are you on stan tumblr talking to gay people about it?

[justgottafinishthischapter]

Writing Worlds: Homosexuality in Historical Settings

As someone who loves period romances and craves romantic relationships between queer men, it’s very alluring to write queer romances set against the backdrop of historical settings and time periods. But, due to the treatment of homosexuality for a lot of our world’s history, it can make it tricky to know the best way to handle this topic. Consider this to be a sister post to go along with my Writing Romance: Courting post. The two go hand-in-hand.

ESCAPISM VS REALISM

The first hurdle is to decide whether your story is an escapist fantasy or favors realism. In an escapist historical queer romance, the queerness is simply not an issue. The prince can flat out tell his parents to arrange his marriage to male suitors, and the only real reaction is his mother immediately listing off good matches for him. The conflict has nothing to do with the fact that the relationship is between two same-sex characters, and would work just as well for a heterosexual romance story. With an escapist fantasy, you can show the Count of Yorkshire navigating the hardships of courting by having multiple young men vying for his hand, or the whirlwind romance as he catches the eye of the Duke of Orleans. And this romance can be just as open and public as any straight relationship. This option would fall under Historical Romanticism, the term used for when historical settings are made to be more idyllic and favorable than they likely were in real life. The only media where this approach tends to show up often is Fantasy, in worlds where homophobia simply never really existed. The Elder Scrolls is one such setting where male gods are married to one another, other gods change genders and pronouns as they like, and your player character is free to romance anyone of any gender as well as adopt without anyone making biggotted remarks.

On the other hand, Realism in a Historical Queer Romance is going to come prepackaged with a lot of tension and angst, as it’s automatically a forbidden romance. Because homophobia is a real issue that real queer people deal with, having queer characters deal with these issues can help your queer audience feel seen as these fictional characters can relate to their own life experiences. It’s also just more historically accurate to have queer lovers needing to tiptoe around behind people’s backs and hoping they don’t get caught. However, due to this prejudice, it’s also very easy for such settings and stories to come off as depressing, and can perpetuate unpleasant tropes in queer media, such as Bury Your Gays, Unhappily Ever After, and downer Nomance endings. Because their relationship isn’t “appropriate” for public eyes, it makes it hard for the couple to have a truly happy ending. For someone who’s tired of dealing with homophobia in their own life, or it just being present in almost all queer media, it can be tedious for those who want an escape to enjoy two guys smooching while looking dapper in period costumes.

Homosexuality and Religion

As a medieval historian, I actually did a full research paper on homosexuality in the middle ages as a part of my final for one of my medieval history classes. I still have the paper saved, so let me share an abridged version. Pagan cultures might have had some issues with homosexuality, such as the Norse favoring the “tops” over the “bottoms”, a sentiment shared by both the Greeks and Romans. However compared to later eras of history, these Pre-Christian cultures had little problems with same-sex relationships. Every Greek God but Ares, Hephaestus, and Hades had at least 1 male lover, Emperor Hadrian had his boy-toy Antinous deified after he drowned in the Nile, and the Sacred Band of Thebes was made up entirely of same-sex lovers. The idea that homosexuality was wrong only emerged with Christianity. Just... not as soon as you’d think. Christianity became a wide-spread faith across Europe around about 300 AD, mostly spread by Constantine’s deathbed conversion to Christianity. However, it would not be until the 12th century that homosexuality as a sin would emerge. This shift first started during what is known as the Medieval Renaissance when Christian theologians like St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome altered the theological discourse on sin and virtue. Prior to the Medieval Renaissance, the mindset was that simply being Christian and accepting Christ as one’s savior was all it took to get into Heaven. After the Medieval Renaissance, the focus shifted to individual sin and the worthiness of the individual soul. They came to view Earth as sort of a testing grounds or waiting room, and any temporary Earthly pleasure was a wicked temptation sent by Satan to lead men astray. How you did on the test impacted whether you passed or failed. One thing that was declared a sin was fornication without the prospect of procreation. And this went for everyone. Any sexual act that would not result in childbirth was a sin, because you were doing it for the pleasure, not for the purposes of making a baby. Furthermore, any position except Missionary was also sinful, again in an attempt to limit pleasure. Since cis-gendered homosexuals cannot procreate, any homosexual acts were universally labeled as a sin by happenstance. Later in 1179, Peter Comestor proposed to the Third Lateran Council a link between the biblical condemnation of sodomy with explicitly condemning homosexuals, and not just anal fornication as a whole, even stating that clerks found guilty of this act should be removed from office, and laymen should be excommunicated from the church. It is Peter Comestor and his stance on homosexuality that truly caused homosexuality to be labeled as a sin on principal, and is why so many modern Christians still believe homosexual relationships are sinful by nature. However, it’s worth pointing out that the time from when Christianity was a widespread faith in Europe (approx. 300 AD) to the Third Lateran Council (1179) is a span of 879 years. As of this point in 2023, the time between Comestor’s condemnation of homosexuality and the present is only 844 years. Meaning that Christianity has a longer history of tolerating homosexuality than it has condemning it. I say all of this because in any setting where Christianity is not a part of the worldbuilding, there is no reason to have homophobia, unless you replace Christianity with a similarly homophobic fictional religion, as George RR Martin does with the Faith of the Seven in A Song of Ice and Fire. As for Judaism and Islam, I’m at a loss there. My studies didn’t really lead me to those topics, and I can’t offer much insight there.

Handwaving Escapist Diversity

Let’s be real, we can’t even cast People of Color in fantasy stories without racists crapping their pants, so unfortunately, we’re going to face similar problems having queer couples openly courting each other in a historical setting. But, there are a few ways around this where we can have our cake and eat it too without the homophobes being able to hide behind “historic accuracy” as a reason to have a problem with queer romances in historical periods. It’s all about the genre. Let’s look at some of the genres we can use.

Historical Fiction: This is the base form. Any period piece is going to be historical fiction. However, Historical Fiction comes in a wide array. Historical Romanticism is the lighter approach, simply putting make-up on the era to make it more palatable and appealing. Think of Bridgerton where the dresses are shaped historically and the characters behave historically, but the Queen is a woman of color, and the dress materials are far more colorful and bright than they would have been at the time. It’s still the Regency era, just with a bit of rouge. On the other hand, there’s Alternate History. Historical settings where a major deviation has occurred in the timeline. Whether the Roman Empire never fell, the British crushed the American Revolution and took over the entire world, Christianity never caught on and the Roman Pantheon is the most widespread belief system, or the industrial revolution exploded even harder, resulting in a more Steampunk vibe. A major upheaval has altered the face of history, and your queer romance is set in an utterly changed world with a different timeline.

Steampunk: As I just touched on, your world can be more technologically advanced, however, Steampunk can also be a genre for completely fictional worlds, giving you a great way to have a story set in an era with an 1880s - 1910s aesthetic, but easily exist as it own world with its own history and values where homosexual relationships aren’t a problem. Steampunk is also the most optimistic and aesthetically oriented of the science-fiction -Punk genres, compared to the much bleaker and more cynical outlooks of Cyberpunk, Diesel Punk, and Gothic Punk.

Gaslamp Fantasy: Basically, Steampunk but with fantastical elements. It keeps that late Victorian - Edwardian aesthetic, but adds magic, faeries, dragons, vampires, etc. Now, Steampunk leans more Sci-fi, while Gaslamp Fantasy is more well.... Fantasy, so Gaslamp Fantasy does tend to lose some of the technological aspects of Steampunk, but it can also overlap with Magitech, a subgenre where machinery is powered and propelled by magical energy. So, you can very well have a Steampunk Gaslamp Fantasy where all of the steam and gears and machinery is powered by magic. It’ still Steampunk, so long as that train is powered by shoveling magic energy crystals into the furnace, instead of coal. Howl’s Moving Castle is a good example of how the two can coexist. There are normal trains as we see in Sophie’s town, but we also see Howl’s castle which can move because of Calcipher, a fire demon that needs to constantly eat a fuel source of one kind or another. The world is full of witches, magic, and curses, but there’s also muskets, trains, airplanes, zeppelins, and a castle that spews steam and smoke as it wanders the countryside.  

Paranormal Romance: Especially common with Vampires, but the fallout of Twilight and Alpha/Beta/Omegas in pop culture has also led to a rising interest in Werewolf stories, and a recent trend has also swept Faeries into the pop culture spotlight as well. All three offer stories where one or both of your characters is an immortal (or very long-lived) individual. Perhaps their world is homophobic now, but when they met and fell in love, it was perfectly acceptable. Perhaps being alive for 800 years piqued the main character’s curiosity and they decided to give it a try. The long history of homosexuals being demonized has led to a large percentage of queer people identifying with the monsters and villains of media, causing them to see themselves in the hated monsters, demons, and vampires that threaten the heterosexual heroes of old.

Historical Fantasy: For everything else that’s not within that Victorian-Edwardian window, Historical Fantasy has you covered. From Cyclopes and Sirens in Ancient Greece to Dragons and Goblins in Medieval France, or a mermaid ending up in an Americana freak show, this pretty much covers ever kind of fantasy romance in a historical setting that’s not covered by Paranormal Romance or Gaslamp Fantasy.

Renaissance Punk: It’s like Steampunk, but the world’s technology resembles the contraptions of Leonardo Da Vinci, as opposed to the clockwork, gears, and steam aesthetic plastered onto the turn of the 20th century that Steampunk offers. Also called Da Vinci Punk.

Space Punk: If you’re wanting to lean more Sci-fi, you can do Space Punk. Think Treasure Planet, though I could also call that Sail Punk. It has a very Victorian clothing and technological aesthetic, but then space is full of a breathable Ethereum, and even Doctor Doppler’s “space suit” looks closer to an old-timey diver’s suit. But the ship has solar sails, the mast charges up with a power source that propels the ship into space, lockets project holograms of still photographs, cybernetic prosthetics are technologically advanced, and aliens are a common sight, even for the poorest commoner.

Same-Sex Courting for Escapist Romance

I touched on this in my Writing Romance: Courting post, but I’ll cover it again because it’s especially applicable here. The rules of courting in the 1800s relied heavily on gender roles. So, how does one make sense of courting rules when the couple are the same sex? The basic rule of thumb is that whoever is higher in status is the one to be chased, while the one of lower class does the chasing. If a Duke is looking for a husband, does the Duke chase Viscounts or do Viscounts chase the Duke? Always, the Viscounts chase the Duke. A Duke is a valuable husband, a prize catch those Viscounts would want to have. What if the romance is between two men of equal class? Two Dukes falling in love? The one who would take the more passive role is likely to be whichever is higher in the line of succession. During the courting phase, an elligible queer bachelor is likely to recieve many gentlemen callers. They would come to the bachelor’s house where his family could keep an eye on him, and judge his prospects. They would bring gifts and trinkets, and sit in the tea room, sewing room, drawing room, or whatever room is used to entertain guests. Gentlemen callers would then talk with the bachelor, recite poetry, play the piano, or whatever else they could to impress the bachelor and his family. Again, as I said before, the one being visited by gentlemen callers is whoever is higher up in the chain of nobility. The Duke’s family is going to scrutinize every gentleman who calls on their son, while the Baron’s family is going to urge him to call on every queer man who outranks him. The other thing to keep in mind is inheritance. The first-born son inherits everything, so a second-born son or third-born son will get nothing from his father, or best case scenario, he will get a small fraction of the family fortune from his father or older brother. In order for these younger sons to stay in the lifestyle they were raised in, they will have to marry someone who is coming into his fortune. In a setting where women can inherit her father’s entire estate, a lesbian would function the exact same as a gay man. Ergo, any queer romantic lead who is not inheriting his father’s full estate must seek a first-born son who will inherit his father’s estate. Meanwhile, if your protagonist is a first-born son, he is far more likely to be chased by the younger sons of distinguished families. Finally, when it comes to the social season and courting at dances, queer nobles would likely wear something to distinguish themselves from the heterosexual nobles at the party. Something to let the other guests know their preference in dance partner. That way, gentlemen know not to ask the Baroness of Agincourt to dance, but that the Duke of Orleans is all too eager to receive male attention.

Lavender Marriages in Realist Romances

A lavender marriage is when a queer person marries someone of the opposite sex to disguise their homosexual dalliances, such as Renly Baratheon marrying Margaery Tyrell, or Laenor Valyrian marrying Rhaenyra Targaryen. In these instances, the woman knew her husband was queer and was willing to work with him to keep the secret. However, sometimes the wife wouldn’t know, and the husband was keeping his sexuality a secret from everybody. However, it was usually hard for a noble to keep his dalliances completely hidden from the court, as in both of these cases, both Renly and Laenor were well-known around court to be fanciful of male attention. Everyone typically knows the wedding is a sham, but tend to turn a blind eye to it regardless. I know I’ve been using male examples this whole post, but this does also work with lesbian romances. I believe the term is still lavender marriage with a lesbian, but I could be mistaken.

Actual Homosexuality in Historical Time Periods

Scholars debate the exact nature of their relationship, but in Arthurian Myth, King Galehaut is conquering his way across Arthur’s Kingdom when he challenges Arthur to a duel for the throne of Camelot. However, upon seeing Sir Lancelot, Galehaut offers to concede to Arthur if he’ll introduce him to Lancelot. From then on, Galehaut and Lancelot became Very Close Special Guy Friends, and it’s suspected that the pair might be lovers, or at least that Galehaut is in love with Lancelot.

Leonardo Da Vinci was involved with one of his male models, Pietri Bandielli, who Da Vinci used as a model for Jesus. Which also means, If you pray to the white version of Jesus with the little beard and long brown hair, congratulations! You’re worshiping a gay Italian male model that used to have sex with Leonardo Da Vinci.

Hans Christian Andersen fell in love with the son of his financier, Edvard Collins. But, when Collins became engaged and later married to Henriette Tybjerg, a heartbroken Andersen wrote the story of The Little Mermaid as an allegory for his unrequited love. Collins was the handsome prince who didn’t return the mermaid’s feelings, Henriette was the Temple Girl who stole the mermaid’s love, and Andersen himself was the mermaid, unable to verbalize her true feelings, and suffering great pain just to be near the one she loves.

It’s mostly speculation, but it’s believed that Richard I of England had a clandestine homosexual relationship with Phillip II of France. The majority of evidence comes from one particular courtier’s writings who described them as eating from the same dish and not being separated by their beds at night. However, it’s hard to say if this is evidence of a homosexual relationship, or just the flowery prose writing of the time describing a very close bromance.

Edward II of England had little interest in war. Hoping to toughen up his son, Edward’s father assigned a squire to Edward that excelled in tournaments, Piers Gaveston. However, this backfired spectacularly, as Edward fell in love with Piers. Gaveston flaunted his sway over the king, being so bold as to wear royal purple and the queen’s jewelry during Edward’s coronation. Gaveston was hunted down and beheaded by a group of barons, and Edward himself was killed with a red-hot poker shoved up his backside.

King James I of England was a well-known bisexual, even having a secret passageway linking his bedchambers with that of George Villiers. James’ male lovers experienced royal favoritism and protection, as James absolved one male lover for poisoning a political rival, and twice protecting Villiers from impeachment for incompetency. Following James’ death, Villiers was struck through by a sword.

Anne Lister was a noblewoman who often dressed in masculine clothing and kept a coded diary which recounted her many and varied lesbian affairs over her lifetime. Lister even earned the nickname Gentleman Jack, and is often regarded as the First Modern Lesbian.

Pirate ships were one of the few places where gay marriage was legitimate. Pirate captains could perform marriage ceremonies, and marriages between male crewmates was not uncommon, even having rules about sharing property and distrubution of goods among crew members with a married couple on-board. As well as the distribution of property following the death of a same-sex spouse.

While we know that brothels and prostitution has existed since Ancient Greece, in the 1700s, it was possible to find a Molly House. A house which featured male prostitutes who catered to male clients.

Women were not believed to have sex drives, so when two women loved each other, they were often called “bosom buddies”, and two women living together without a man in the house was called a Boston Marriage.

In the medieval era, it was believed that a woman’s womb was naturally cold and had to be kept warm with regular activity. If the woman was unmarried, the womb was to be kept warm by hand. But since using her own hands would be sinful, it often fell to the woman’s female servants to do the deed.

Men and women often existed in entirely disconnected social spheres. For a man, he would go to work where he would only work with men, after work he would go to a local bar or club that was exclusively for gentlemen, and following dinner, he would often retire to a private room in his home or another man’s home to sit, smoke, and talk with his male colleagues. Even within a single house, men would retire to the gentlemen’s lounge to smoke, while women would depart to the sewing room, tea room, or drawing room to have afternoon tea with the other ladies. As men would spend their entire days solely in the company of men, and the same for women, many men and women only spent time together in public spaces, during meals, and when going to bed. Even then, it was not uncommon to see households where the man and woman had separate bedchambers, and the woman would only sleep in the man’s bedroom when he desired sexual congress. Even the Palace of Versailles had separate chambers for the king and queen. This gave queer couples plenty of time to sneak around without anyone being the wiser.

This to Keep in Mind

One of the biggest issues behind the AIDS epidemic was the promiscuous nature of gay lovers in the 1970s. Because gay men had to be discreet, they would often have anonymous relations in public spaces like bathhouses and bars. This combination of unsafe sex practices and anonymous lovers caused STDs to run rampant through the community, and allowed the AIDS epidemic to have a devastating impact on the queer community.

In Victorian great houses, the footmen were effectively the “face” of the manor’s servants, so height and attractiveness was favored when hiring them. As such, footmen make for excellent romantic interests in a historical time period, since they’re required to be attractive to be hired.

The mafia has a long history of working with and supporting the LGBT community. In the 1920s, nightclubs in the black districts of Harlem would host drag balls, these events being known as Harlem Nights. The mafia helped these groups to meet without police interference for a kickback fee. Even the Stonewall Inn had Mafia protection. In a world where homosexuality is still seen as a sin, think about what groups are willing to turn a blind eye in the interest of profit.

Homosexuals were among those rounded up the Nazi Party during the Holocaust. Just as Jews were forced to wear the Star of David on their clothes, so too were homosexuals marked with a pink triangle. The Nazi Party also destroyed research on gender and sexuality, which destroyed a lot of evidence that had been gathered of queer existence up to that point in time. Today, the Pink Triangle is among the reclaimed symbols used by the queer community.

Queer people found ways to signal to one another. At different points in time, the visual cues have included wearing green ties, having a red carnation in their lapels, and in the 1970s, a bandana in the back pocket was a common way of indicating someone was a homosexual, and the color would even further indicate what they were looking for. Many modern slang words even started out as gay code words so that gay people could talk in public without drawing attention to themselves. Codes like “buns” for butt are still in use today, but got their start as codewords to keep gay conversations undercover.

While we often remember the Red Scare of the 1950s, we often don’t mention that there was also a Lavender Scare at the same time, which hunted down homosexuals just as the Red Scare hunted for communists. It was the belief that homosexuals would be more likely to undermine American policies or spread information to enemy nations, and thus had to be kept down.

Rich men often kept “actresses”, paying for apartments for them, paying for their food, drink, fun, costumes, and whatever else. If they really were an actress or otherwise a struggling entertainer, it was not unheard of for the wealthy benefactor to pay to get the actress roles, pay for tutors and lessons, or even buying them an entire theater. It’s not so hard to believe that a wealthy gentleman could keep a male model, actor, or artist in good stead, especially because artists in particular flourished in periods where rich people would sponsor and commission artists to paint for them. And this can work for either type of story, as a husband or wife would be equally annoyed to learn that the Duke of Orleans is keeping a young actor on the south side.

Gif Sourcing:

1. Bridgerton (2020 - present) 2. Game of Thrones (2011-2019) 3. Mary, Queen of Scots (2018) 4. Downton Abbey (2010-2015) 5. Victoria (2016) 6. Cloud Atlas (2012) 7. A Place to Call Home (2013-2018) 8. Mary Shelley (2017) 9. Brokeback Mountain (2005)

[sidebaxolotl]

Do you know of any good resources for dealing with gender dysphoria from a side B or Y Christian angle (i.e., not affirming sin or encouraging transition?) It's not huge in my life but sometimes it comes up and I wish I had more advice for dealing with it. A lot of the stuff I find is unhelpful because it's just plainly restating the rules with how Christianity doesn't condone gender ideology with no practical advice, is in that "how to talk to your friend who has this issue" pov, or just kinda goes "lol pray about it idk". I 100% know and stand by that biological sex is biological sex and don't think it's possible to change to the opposite sex, nor do I really want to... so it's not a matter of needing to persuade me, but it doesn't change that I still have feelings of stress and of not really living up to or fitting in with womanhood. When I'm around other women it can be really difficult because I feel so profoundly different when we should be similar. TIA

Sorry this took so long, I took the time to talk to a couple of people who had dysphoria in the past and some who didn't to get some insight.

Both the people I had talked to who had it had cited porn as a major reason why they developed it in the first place so if thats not ur experience then maybe this wont be as helpful for you 😅

They did bring up a good point that assessing where you think your dysphoria comes from from a psychiatric standpoint could help you figure out how to deal with it and i was given this link:

https://oncurrentevents.substack.com/on-gender-transition-and-psychiatric-disorders

Like for example it was pointed out to me that gd presents a lot like body dysmorphia (specifically, like eating disorders and stuff) so u might be able to use whatever coping mechanisms are used for that to help. It also seems to be a prevalent phenomenon in autistic and adhd individuals so perhaps addressing those things if you have them would help.

I was also linked to this book, the friend in question had remarked that it had helped a lot of the women he knew:

https://a.co/d/6DNWdA2

The guy I talked to said therapy had helped him as well as support from God/ his family but finding non affirming therapists that have a nuanced view on things is extremely difficult, esp if you want a Christian one. Him and I were extremely lucky in that way.

The one woman i spoke to said she quit porn and sobered off gd feelings once she realized transitioning wouldnt truly make her a boy.

I did want to be a boy when i was really young but im not super sure that counts? Idk.

For me what helped was realizing a lot of what made me not want to be a girl at that time was just a reaction to stereotypical gender roles and sexism towards women. Once i started challenging those perceptions and the ways my brain was affirming them i became way more comfortable in my body.

I also had a similar realization as sibling that I'd never truly be able to be a boy if i tried to alter my body. I could wear blue and be the night in shining armor and be a hero and still be a woman, yknow?

Also a lot of it was me being very gay and not realizing it lmaooo

I can def relate to not really fitting in with women--particularly in Christian settings I'm typically the only one who isnt hyperfemme and it can be a bit alienating.

Realizing i wasn't straight kinda helped too since the lesbian perception of womanhood is a lot more fluid than its straight counterpart. Not saying to "go gay" if you aren't but maybe looking into butch and gnc communities and framing your self-perception in that way might help?

If there are any other side b dysphoric folks reading this feel free to chime in with your own tips/resources in dealing with this stuff please!!

[nerdygaymormon]

What are your thoughts on people who are asexual and/or aromantic and Christian? As an aroace Christian, I often feel very lonely and like I am left out of both the Christian community and the queer community.

Congratulations on figuring out you're both aro and ace. Recognizing the absence of something takes more thought and investigation than it does to recognize the existence of attractions and feelings.

Being aroace is a blessing!

In 1 Corinthians chapter 7, it’s very clear that the apostle Paul personally feels that sex and romance is more trouble than it’s worth and lowkey wishes more people felt the same. I think if he were alive today, he might choose the labels aromantic and asexual.

Paul is also pretty clear that in the eyes of God, it doesn’t matter whether we’re married or unmarried. It’s up to us to decide what works best for us. If you’re ace/aro, great! God has work for you. 

————————————————————

One thing about being aroace is it can be invisible. Unfortunately some queer people don't view aroace people as being part of the LGBT community because they believe that the people who are on the ace and aro spectrums don’t face the same discrimination and oppression as other queer people.

The Queer Community is all sexual and gender identities other than straight and cisgender, and that's why LGBTQIA includes the A specifically for aro and ace. We all experience marginalization. Our aroace friends definitely are part of the queer community.

In the queer communities, there's spaces for gays, lesbians, trans people, but I'm not aware of any specifically for those who are aro or ace, so I'm sure it feels lonely, as though you can come to queer spaces but your aren't seen and celebrated.

————————————————————

When Christians don't know someone is ace or aro, they adore how well you seem to be at remaining chaste and pure.

But many Christians have such strong negative feelings against the queer community, that they extend those feelings to anyone that is part of this community. It's ridiculous. You are exactly the person they loved until they learned you also describe yourself as ace and aro, nothing is changed about you.

They should accept and love you for your faith and desire to be part of the worship community.

————————————————————

Much love to you and I hope you find peace and a place where people accept and welcome you as your full authentic self

[randomcontentdude]

I was trying to take a nap and the thought of GG blonde sorta woke me up with this mix of full body anxiety and excitement. I was supposed to do some uni work and I just stayed up really late talking to a friend of mine on the phone. Then I had scheduled running with my ex-flatmates so I woke up for that and then went to brunch. I was supposed to get groceries too but I just came back home well into the afternoon somehow and was very tired so I took a nap. Thats where im now, I should be already leaving the supermarket cause him on dinner duty tonight but I haven't even showered, I really felt like I needed to have this outlet tho. I feel a bit overwhelmed by my own schedule since I feel I can't quite manage my times for being good and healthy and also being responsible with my studies. But I will get there eventually, im hopeful on that.

I had this overwhelming anxiety and some point tho, because the birdy friend of my plurinational friend has been delayed, and since birdy is staying with plurinational if they are too late they might not be able to come. This may be an opportunity to tell GG blonde to come, however, I got anxious that if he came he would get interested in my emo friend(my flatmate) even though he is taken already.

My emo friend would never do something to hurt me, and I know he really cares about me, and especially that he is very happy with his boyfriend, but it would be absolutely devastating to see GG blonde going for another person, especially emo friend. This is a trauma response, this has happened in the past.

Back in the spring we attended a party at our uni and my christian friend encountered this heavily intoxicated boy who was also a swiftie, so him and I we started bonding, he is very pretty but I was not personally attracted to him. Anyways, many shenanigans after he makes out with me and then tries to make out with emo friend (this was way before he even met his boyfriend), he declines but finally accept. I was very sensible to this situation for two main reasons:

My first kiss was in a party with a boy who ended up being straight even tho he told me he was bi that night, we were both drunk, I was a bit more sober than him tho. My social circle scrutinised me for that afterwards, saying I shouldn't have made out with him if he was that drunk. I felt embarrassed, attacked and as a awful person, even tho I spoke with the boy a few weeks after when I myself was in a relationship and we cleared things out and turned out not to be a bad experience for him neither. And just to be clear, I asked for permission for everything I did (which was just kissing), he was the one that threw himself at me and started making out, and he asked ME to go to the bathroom with him (this didn't end up happening).

I felt used by this other person and even tho emo friend and I look nothing alike and we don't follow the same dynamics, meaning even tho we are both gay males, we have different demographics. This doesn't change the fact that people can have a variety of tastes and that I still feel insecure on that topic when im around him, I don't want GG blonde to choose someone else, but specially not emo friend, that would absolutely destroy me. I love emo friend deeply and I wouldn't want to ignite any negative feelings towards him for something out of his control, I value his friendship and the relationship we have. This situation and some others when we go clubbing and achieves more game than I do makes me feel insecure around him in this sort of contexts, it sorta triggers my body dysmorphia and my anxiety and I have learned to cope and I feel great about myself right now because im eating healthy and exercising regularly, but that trauma remains and I cannot ignore it.

I feel better now, it's just that I should be at plurinational friend's house yet I haven't even showered. so now that causing me to feel anxious but thats okay, were late anyways.

[rosenbraut]

CR's music isn't for me and i get actively annoyed by the way ppl hail her as the first ~important 'lesbian' singer (i think she has been open abt the fact she has dated both men and women), but i think saying she leaves her songs open to interpretation so as not to risk anything or as a marketing gimmick is kind of reductive, since in her music videos she kisses women, she hires drag queens as her support acts, and has been very open about the journey her sexuality took 1/2

as she grew up in a very conservative christian household. even tho i don't rly like her music (she has one or two i like), her pointing out when ppl yelled at her on twt for playing in US states that have bathroom bills that even so there are still lgbtq people in those states who need visible support was i think a good point. it's probably different in europe and not interesting to you, but here in the US where everything seems to be regressing i appreciate her msg if not her music

Firstly, thank you for reaching out and adding a "genuine USAmerican voice" to the discussion! :) You're also right, I am lacking an intimate knowledge of the current emotional states of the US. For the record: she seems very cool as a person and I don't mean to belittle her activism or the way she's using her platforms. I also don't think she's to blame for how she's hailed as the lesbian queen of music atm, that's just general biphobia (I also think we should keep in mind that sexuality is a constant journey of discovery, so me talking about her being bisexual now is me going from what she herself has said. if she later on says she's a lesbian, I'd never insist on calling her bisexual due to her past relationships with men, obviously. At the same time, I find it uncomfortable and harmful that so many people deny her mlw experiences with that sweeping "lesbian" diagnosis. Bisexuals exist.)

Just to clear up any confusion about what I meant re:marketability: Her using "you" makes the song open to interpretation. Straight people won't feel alienated by "and you're eating me out", because they can easily read the other person as male. That's a privilege other songs don't have. Even Lil Nas X, who uses 2nd person in Montero, doesn't have that privilege because, although the "you" is neutral, he makes it very clear who he's addressing. And of course she's completely free to sing about men, I just find it tiresome that her songs are hailed as gay anthems when they're ambiguous at best. If you want to make most of these applicable to the straight experience, you don't even have to change the pronouns, because there are none. And I do think it's intentionally ambiguous. "And she's eating me out" is going to get way less streams than "and you're eating me out", which fits neatly into the heartbroken Spotify playlist next to Ariana Grande and Taylor Swift, lyrics-wise. And, to make that clear, I don't think it's a bad thing to keep marketability in mind, especially since lgbt+ artists are held to such a high standard - look at Jojo Siwa or Sam Smith the second they are undeniably lgbt+. In short: My comment was strictly referring to her lyrics.

It's great that she supports drag performers and makes out with girls in her videos. Music Videos especially are very impactful - think of Hayley Kiyoko's Girls like Girls and what it did for the wlws of the 2010s (but also... again, do you think "girls like girls like boys do" is as relatable to a straight audience as "do you like this beat? I made it so you'd sleep with me"?).

Anyhow, bottom line: I'm glad she exists, I'm happy she makes music, I'm sure she's touching a lot of people, lifting them up and making them feel seen. Her looks are fun. I just think we shouldn't trip over our feet to hail her as something she isn't (the first lesbian singer ever to make music).

This goes to say: I agree with you! 🍓 I just wanted to explain better what I meant by marketability. Also tbh, it’s perfectly fine with me if she wants to sing about men. I feel like this whole answer came across more blunt than I meant it to be.

[ashadowadminkuro]

I pity you people sometimes.

Look, this is not a hate post....more of one of concern.

I have friends who are gay, lesbian, and even bisexual or pansexual or whatever sexual.

I'm a Christian, and proud of it. But I am also MORE than just that.

YOU are more than just your sexuality or assumed gender or however you identify as.

Think of it this way. Everyone is made up of parts....each part is not more or less important than the other, but each are different in their own way.

Like for me as a first example. I am a Christian, I am also an uncle, a godfather, a gamer, a Discord admin, a Redditor, a fucking degenerate league of legends player, a fucking horny weeb who browses hentai 90% of the time I am on the internet, and a guy who hates pineapple pizza.

Also if it's not clear...I'm straight, I like girls, BIOLOGICAL GIRLS, not "Cis" women...Women, as in WOMEN, a woman who is born a woman, can lactate, give birth, and identifies as a woman.

Now let's list one of my friends who is gay.

He is gay, He is an artist, he is a DnD player, He likes Warhammer 40k lore but doesn't want female space marines, He likes Bara artstyles, He works to feed his family, A good friend, and if he is lucky, a good husband to his partner.

He is gay, but he is MORE than just his Sexuality. He is MORE than just what he is attracted to.

He has more to him than just the rainbow flag, He has struggles BESIDES what ass he wants to stare at on the internet belonging to a man.

So color me surprised that he wholeheartedly does not like the current LGBTQ community.

I asked him "Why? Are you not technically a member? Being Gay?"

He replied to me "Well technically yes, but I do not enjoy how these loud mouthed people only focus on their sexuality to the point of harassing and defaming people who either misgender them or refuse to call them by their pronouns"

And I agree. Not because you people are gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, or even Asexual.

I believe people are more than just what riles up your pants or panties, and I mean that as a GOOD thing. Why limit yourself to what attracts you? Are you not a person first? Who has dreams and aspirations beyond just "same sex makes me horny, both sexes make me horny"

Like I do not support what the LGBTQ stands for NOW.

But I did BACK THEN when you fought to not be discriminated or just casually killed like some parasite under someone's shoe.

That you fought for your rights to LIVE and be given opportunity to be given the same opportunities as everyone else.

But I cannot support an LGBTQ movement that indoctrinates children, thinks that every problem can be solved with sex change surgery, and makes their sexuality their entire identity and being as if there is NOTHING else about them that has ANY WORTH to the World.

If you want the best example of an LGBTQ person....Captain Holt from Brooklyn 99.

He faced discrimination, both racially and for his sexuality, and despite that he proved he was MORE than just his sexuality and color.

He is in the show a respected and acknowledged senior, deserving of his rank among the Officers of the 99, and he is gay.

The worst part about the LGBTQ is that the Loud Minority is Undoing DECADES of fighting for your rights.

TAKE A HINT PEOPLE, CORPORATIONS ARE TURNING YOUR COMMUNITY INTO A POINTLESS BORING CHECKMARK FOR VIEWS.

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? Your Decades of Work for Freedom and Equality, Scorned and Hated by many, even among your own people, Turned into a simple checkmark for TV shows for relevancy? To be turned into a simple marketing ploy for views?

"Oh let's make this character gay/Trans"

"Do they do anything that makes people like them?"

"No we will just include them in the show so the LGBTQ community will praise us for representation for positive feedback, We are always right, there is no way they will know we are doing this just for attention, We will make the Gay/Trans character super boring and forgettable"

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? Cause I refuse to see you turned into such an existence.

I still do not support same sex marriage but I refuse to see people turned into mindless check boxes for anyone wanting attention.

[delete-the-kisses]

rant about religion/christianity below

i've thought about religion and queerness a lot recently, mostly because my friendgroup now has queer people and also a straight, religious girl.

i used to believe in god. and when i got older i just stopped believing. there was science and evidence and the internet and my baby gay brain was like "woah! i'm not a sinner because none of this shit is real!"

my family apart from my grandma and aunt aren't really religious either. my mom and dad have never repressed me or my identity and haven't tried to make me believe in anything. and don't get me wrong; i don't really have any childhood religious trauma either? so now it's like, why do i of all people care?

but it truly, truly hurts me how much of this whole fucking world is being run by major religion. why is christianity a part of literal fucking social structures? why do they teach religion in public school? (not in every country but mine) why does the president say god bless you in their speech? (once again, could be just my country.)

and another thing that hurts is that it's scientifically proven that being religious can give you brain damage. because religion refuses to change with time and the sole fucking reason humanity has survived this long is adapting to change.

i know there's accepting christians. my friend's family is incredibly accepting. my friend may be allocishet, white and christian and she's one of the most open-minded, kind, amazing people i've ever met. her family is so kind as well.

but then, there are the ones who say that being queer is a mental illness. there are the ones who invite a priest over to cure their child who just came out. there are the ones making anti trans and queer laws and banning pride flags. that's the other extreme.

most christians i've met aren't straight up hateful. they're a calm, civil, hidden kind of hateful who get kind of uneasy when there's discussion around queerness or just... something that doesn't agree with their stance.

and i GENUINELY have trouble understanding how your worldview can be centered around something that there's literally no scientific proof of. sorry (not) if this offensive but to me, it's equivalent to believing in unicorns. but i respect your beliefs and i won't make fun of you for them or hate you for them BECAUSE i refuse to be equally bad.

i also don't understand willingly being a part of something that limits the things you can do. why are you living a restricted life to get into heaven where there truly isn't any certainty that it even exists? how do you blindly trust this? isn't religion just a socially acceptable cult?

and why the fuck do you claim to accept other people's beliefs and religions but the SECOND someone's a satanist you go guns-a-blazing at them. (fun fact: satanism isn't even about the christian satan!) (fun fact 2: no queer person is going to hell for their identity and telling someone they'll go to hell is mean and disrespectful!)

is it TRULY necessary to "spread the gospel" to people? that is literally just shoving your beliefs down other people's throats... the EXACT thing you claim the lgbtqia+ community is doing. or is it only okay since it's your belief?

why are your morals based on your religion? i see shit on social media saying "atheists, what's restricting you from just killing someone if your religion isn't telling you not to?" and maybe that's an extreme example but what do you MEAN "what's restricting you"?! MAYBE MORALS? BASIC HUMAN DECENCY? like... do you find yourself lacking those??? if the bible tells you to hit your wife and support slavery do you do those things??? (the bible probably says both of those lmfao.)

so. that was my rant for today. ain't no hate like christian love, amirite? if you're christian or religious otherwise and find yourself reading this with an urge to comment "jesus loves you" or "god please help her" just save the time. every time i get a comment like that i carve a pentagram on a dead goat! xoxo

(everyone believe whatever the fuck you want i don't care but remember anyone has the right to question it. christianity is the biggest world religion btw and the "oppression" you experience stops existing when you put your phone down. stop whining at it. that's all fr byee)

[phoenixyfriend]

#Tales From Ye Olde Fandom Elders  #There's also people who identify as CisHet who explore this unconscious attraction they have for their own gender  #And their first forays can be to explore through fiction by turning an unacceptable person to be attracted to an acceptable one  #When people change just body parts and not the personality it can be a training wheels version of exploring gay attraction without gayness  #Not saying that's okay or whatever because bodies don't determine identity but a body matching an identity can make it more comfortable  #Like people who genderbend Dean into a girl so he can have a 'heterosexual' relationship with Cas  #They could be exploring their own identity or they might be like who I'm not attracted to any women/men perhaps if Dean or Cas were  #Real and like a Woman/Man I could be into them. And that proves I'm straight

#I find these awkward lowkey problematic seeming portrayals happen more with sheltered kids with strict Christian upbringings  #It's the kind of self-exploration that IMHO comes out of not having or feeling like you have a safe place to have those questions  #I grew up legit not knowing about Gay People. I lived through the fight for Marriage Equality and now identify as Queer  #But at the time. I legitimately did not know what Gay was. Except that people didn't like it  #The only exploration of like gender and sexuality other than proper Christian have lots of babies CisHet that I could engage in?  #Was internet based. My friends weren't talking about it. They fit the mold. And an identity didn't fit me until college

#I read a million of those little genderbend stories. I read so much slashfic especially as I was coming to terms that I just didn't like  #people like that. That I wasn't going to eventually get over the 'phase' like everyone told me. And soon boys would do it for me.  #Eventually wondered if Girls would do it for me. Of course this was Gay Purge Fandom times so tagged Het couple was more likely to survive  #Genderbend stories sometimes flew under radar which also meant that there were instances where those were the only Queer stories found  #in my particular fandom sphere. But also I never really felt like a girl the way that I was told I should feel like a girl

#(Arguably I would blame that on the super strict gender standards that were forced on me from an early age. Which I see as harmful.)  #But part of me feels like I wouldn't have felt strongly any way I was raised about being one gender over another  #I'm one of those lucky odd ducks who are both Gender Apathetic and Asexual

#I don't know. I can definitely see where the Transphobic Argument is coming from. And I've definitely read things that I don't think  #were about exploring identity  #But I also can see problematic works having value too  #Like if someone hadn't pointed out how Queer you could read Dean and Cas in Supernatural and I hadn't gone through and watched it  #I don't know if I would have recognized my own queerness or how much longer it would have taken (via @curiousorigins)

Someone on Discord: Wait, why is there genderbend discourse?

Me, popping up like a dog that just heard the word “walk”: Let me give you an essay on how it’s a matter of conflicting needs and poor genre rep.

[hellomynameisbisexual]

Andrew Ford was questioned and fetishized when he came out as bisexual. The gay community insisted he wasn’t being honest with himself; women at clubs started to excitedly fantasize about hooking up with two guys at the same time.

All the while, the soccer standout stayed true to himself. Ford came out his freshman year at Malone University, a small Christian liberal arts college in Canton, Ohio — home of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. His friends and teammates were accepting, which was an incredible relief. But his journey into the LGBTQ community was a little more rocky.

“I got a lot of pressure from the gay community,” Ford told me recently on the phone. “I felt like I was misunderstood, and didn’t know who I was.”

Ford is one of an increasing number of openly bisexual college-aged athletes whom we’ve profiled recently on Outsports. Despite some surveys showing more Americans identify as bisexual than either gay or lesbian, there is a dearth of bi visibility in pop culture and sports.

As bi sportswriter Jeff Rueter challenged me: “name a bisexual man, and don’t say Frank Ocean.”

These kick-ass kids are going to change that.

Biphobia is real

Let’s start here: Biphobia is real. It manifests itself in gestures as seemingly fleeting as dismissive jokes, and actions as harrowing as outright physical violence. Bisexual people typically suffer significantly higher rates of depression and anxiety, domestic violence, sexual assault, and poverty than lesbians, gay men, or straight cisgender people, according to the Human Rights Campaign.

A black-and-white society, most of us grow up with the notion people are either straight or gay. Those attitudes have historically prevailed in the LGBTQ community, too.

Alex Keuroghlian, the Director of the National LGBTQIA+ Health Education Center at the Fenway Institute, says bisexual people can be looked at skeptically.

“Within LGBTQIA+ communities, there has historically been a stigma toward bisexual people, and the false notion that they’re really gay and lesbian people who haven’t accepted that about themselves,” he said.

Megan Duthart, a rower at Washington State University who identifies as both bi and queer, has experienced the stigma first-hand. She says she thinks bisexual people are often excluded in the LGBTQ community.

“I’ve struggled a little bit with being identified as an ‘other’ in the community with the term ‘bisexuality,’” she said.

Why are bi people targeted for erasure?

More people are identifying as bisexual. Over three percent of U.S. adults say they’re bi, according to the 2018 General Social Survey. That’s three times the number as 2008.

And yet, bi people are still targeted for erasure. One of the ways it happens is through language. When people see same-sex couples, for example, they may be inclined to label them as “gay” or “lesbian,” without considering that one or both of the people could identity as bi.

While Americans’ attitudes about sexuality are evolving, many still adhere to more binary definitions of sexual orientation. A recent YouGov poll found 41 percent of American adults don’t think sexuality is a spectrum (conversely, 37 percent think it is).

As Ford puts it, bisexuality is stereotypically viewed as “the stepping stone stage.” That ties into one of the more insidious aspects of bi-erasure: the belief that it’s just a phase. It’s a line Ford recalls hearing many times, from both men and women.

“(Gay men) said, ‘I came out as bisexual first. It’s just a phase, you won’t be there long,’” Ford said. “I was also scared how women would think about it. They wanted to change me. Some of them wanted to use it as a thrill they were seeking.”

When professional hockey player Zach Sullivan came out as bi, his father told him it meant he was still making up his mind.

“I remember what my dad said when I told him,” Sullivan said. “‘Well, you aren’t all the way there. You haven’t really decided.’ I was like, ‘no, I know I’m attracted to both genders. I’m not halfway towards coming out as gay.’”

The bi burden

Every LGBTQ person can relate to the fear and anxiety of coming out. But for most of us, once we do it, it’s over.

That’s not the case for bi people.

“We have to keep coming out to our significant others, whether it’s a man or a woman,” Ford said. “If you’re gay and you start dating a gay, you’re not going to be like, ‘I have to tell you something: I’m gay.’ They’re going to be like, ‘no shit.’”

And once bi people do come out, they could get charged with being greedy — the sexual equivalent of having their cake and eating it, too. The insult angers Sullivan.

“The majority of people in the LGBT+ community have struggled with their sexuality, and when they finally become comfortable enough to come out in the open with their sexuality, I don’t think the first thing to say to someone who’s come out as bisexual is they’re greedy,” Sullivan said. “I took over 10 years to get to where I am.”

Duthart finds the concept of bisexuality can be difficult to explain. She largely identifies as queer.

“I’ve had coaches question whether I’m rebelling or going through a phase,” she said. “Then when I explain the whole queer aspect, they’re like, ‘Oh, OK. That seems more justified.’ I don’t want to have to justify those things, but I sort of have to.”

Changing attitudes

Jack Storrs came out as bisexual last year as a college football captain. His teammates at Pomona-Pitzer rallied around him, and wore Pride decals on their helmets.

But even some who were supportive suggested he was on his way to identifying as gay. Storrs said he couldn’t hide his feelings for men anymore, and came out because he wanted to explore.

Maybe he was gay, maybe he wasn’t. The questions didn't bother him. He was a relieved to have the dialogue.

“It was killing me on the inside,” Storrs said. “It got to the point where I was like, ‘screw it.’ This is who I am, and this was meant to be.”

Nowadays, Storrs says he’s more towards the “gay end of the spectrum,” and expects the fluidity to continue.

He’s cool with that, and numbers show his peers are, too. Generation Z is among the most progressive and diverse in U.S. history. A 2018 study from Ipsos Mori shows only 66 percent of young people today identify exclusively as heterosexual.

Young people have a better understanding of how sexuality can evolve, says Keuroghlian.

“There’s been less of a reflex to box people in, and categorize people in ways that could be static,” he said. “A key part of all of this is not projecting behavior or projecting attraction. People tell us — they self-identify that’s who they are. And we have to honor that.”

Visibility challenges misperceptions

But to get back to Rueter’s question: can you name a famous out bisexual person besides Frank Ocean?

It’s challenging, and the lack of bi visibility may be one of the biggest contributors towards bi-erasure. But that is changing. Each person who comes out as bisexual has the ability to change perceptions within their own communities — and many young athletes are.

Bri Tollie, a bisexual college basketball player at Southern Methodist University, wrote in her coming-out story she refuses to conform.

“It is important to be visible because everyone is unique,” she wrote. “Our uniqueness means no one should not have to give up a part of themselves to conform. It is called self-respect.”

Growing up, Storrs tried to shut off his attraction to guys. He told himself it wasn’t a big deal, but the angst became all-encompassing.

Storrs is done hiding any part of himself. He did that for far too long, and is now out for all to see.

“I am bisexual, and my point is, I don’t really give a shit what anybody else thinks,” Storrs said. “This is who I am, and I don’t have to figure it out, but the reason I’m coming out is to figure it out, or at least get to a point where I’m comfortable.”

With their stories, these young bi athletes are making it more comfortable for bi people every single day.

[asexual-means-no-attraction]

I've thought about this for a while and it genuinely does seem that christians consider asexuality (specifically the split attraction version, demisexuality and all that) the ideal and that sexual desire is a sin when not procreating. a lot of countries outside the west tend to have similar thoughts especially towards women. at what point does asexuality become a privilege over those who do experience sexual desire? has there been any research into this?

I don't know about any peer reviewed research. But it's definitely something I've seen discussed. Tho I think using the word privilege takes away from the actual experience of people who deal with this.

I'm going to discuss the USA and more specifically my own experiences I've had with this. Obviously this isnt a call out to a specific community but rather a trend that occurs with in them. Not everyone will agree but regardless here goes.

Important to note, the idea of a women being celibate (not nessesarily asexual) is deemed to be "right." It's significantly more frowned upon for a women to give herself away before marriage then a man. A step further, girls are often insulted for either being a prude or a slut whether they decide to have sex or not. Boys get called "play boys" but it's used in both a positive and negative way. Girls are seen as pure and without sexual desire, which would mean women who are asexual would be held up on a pedestal for being the "right kinda women." The same can't be said for asexual men. And both of these only go to a certain extent.

There would be many parents/family members that would "prefer" their kid be asexual-- specially their daughters. But that's also only temporary. They WILL make a complete 180 when said daughter still doesn't want to date after being an adult, or won't have sex with her husband. The "privilege" only lasts until they want her to have kids. If it's their son then they'll just assume he's gay or has something wrong with him since boys are more likely to be obsessed with sex (or that's how they're perceived to be).

It's not so much that asexuality is the ideal, but rather they just want you to follow their idea of Christian values. Which include saving yourself for marriage, not showing interest until they think it's time, having kids when you're an adult, etc etc. So long as you follow what they want they will be happy. That is not privilege. Because as soon as they realize you won't be who they want any "privilege" is now gone.

What they want aren't asexuals. It's straight people who are celibate till marriage. They'll just consider asexuals as straights who are waiting rather then actually asexuals.

Privilege is something that you can't opt out of, and something you will benefit from no matter how you act. But it doesn't mean you're going to be treated well in every situation and it doesn't mean you'll benefit the same way as those around you. It's like straight passing privilege. It doesn't actually exist. It's not a privilege if it's relaint on acting a specific way or if it can be taken away if you don't perfectly conform to what those around you want.

Just because someone can benefit temporarily from a fucked up part of society/culture doesn't mean they're not hurt by it either. The discussion shouldn't be "do asexuals have privilege within specific religious centered cultures?" It should be discussing how to actually help those hurt by it. Helping to change mindsets. Accepting others. Etc etc. You can talk about how asexuals are treated, and how different it is to how other sexualities are treated, but I think we're failing if we try to just rank different sexualities in terms of privilege.

Cuz in the end they care more about how you present yourself. A gender non conforming straight person is gonna get backlash. A gender conforming gay man might experience better reception then a GNC straight man up until he's outed. Doesn't mean the gay man had privilege up until then. An asexual who isn't interested in dating but comes off as flirty will get negative reception compared to a straight girl who has a sex drive but is waiting till marriage. They just want you to act how they deem acceptable. Anyone else is considered bad.

And that's just the USA. There's other places around the world that are worse, where you're life is at much higher risk.

SUMMARY:

it's not that asexuality is a privilege but rather they just like that you're currently acting how they want. They will flip out the moment they realize you might not want kids or sex ever, or the moment you don't act like the perfect person they want you to be. having to act a specific way to get acceptance isn't a privilege. In the end, they just like asexuality up until they actually want you to be straight.

[autisticandroids]

ok how would girls au work because i feel like to keep true with the theme of toxic gender roles them being cool and butch feels very at odds with that when like the girl version of that would be like christian girl with an instagram talking about country life and her future husband like it would be an interesting combo for them because john would be like ur an inherent failure for being a girl but also the expectations are lower already for them compared to john and sons

yeah it’s like weird! but i think about it a lot. i made a big fun post with it here.

basically my ideas are a combination of serious (dean) interesting (sam) and self-indulgent (cas).

like first of all i think sam is an out lesbian and i think she came out during the fight before stanford. like, i think she told dean when she was like fifteen, but she told john the night she left. she spat it in his face, actually. 

i think dean is like. dean loves her unconditionally but is also lightly homophobic to her about it, you know? they were accustomed to sharing motel room beds as kids but dean won’t do it anymore now that she knows sam likes girls. dean is also like, weird to her about her interactions with other women, and also talks constantly about men, as though men-liking were a cool exclusive club only dean is invited to.

i think sam has like butt length straight hair and doesn’t wear any makeup ever but doesn’t like. wear mens clothes or anything, like she wears plain clothes that are cut for women. on hunts she puts her hair in a braid. maybe she braids a spiked strap into it like beka cooper.

dean is like........ dean is a lot like young, pre-john mary i think. think the song remains the same. dean is obsessed with performing masculinity, while at the same time terrified of seeming mannish or queer. she walks a weird line, and ends up overperforming both masculinity and femininity. she regularly challenges dudes twice her size to arm wrestling contests in bars, but she never goes out of the motel room without a full face of makeup. like she’s obsessed with doing both. masculinity for respect, and femininity for conformity. you know that thing dean does with his voice? the harshening? the intentionally adopted accent and tough guy tones? she does that too. and her voice is raspy, like rachel miner’s. she’s just as invested in her “heterosexuality” as canon dean.

she wears dean’s same green army jacket but underneath it she ties up a flannel shirt so it bares her midriff. she wears her hair like s13 mary, except that sometimes she puts it in little pigtails. 

cas is the easiest because cas’ gender presentation doesn’t matter at all except in how OTHER PEOPLE relate to her, so it’s less a question of “how would cas do woman?” and more a question of “what would it be fun to see other people/dean specifically react to?”

so basically like. jimmy novak is a frumpy feminine christian mom. still wears the trench coat and probably a suit but when i say suit i mean blazer, pencil skirt, tights, blouse (or maaaybe a button down), low-ish heels. long hair in bouncy curls (think rowena’s hair but no bangs and black). actually jimmy novak probably pinned her hair up in a slight updo.

anyway i’ve decided that i refuse to try and remember what actually happened with cas falling in like, canon, like how close he got to human. this au’s cas gets close enough to human that she has to start like. showering. anyway she can’t take care of the hair so it gets tangled in a giant rat’s nest and dean gives her a bathroom chop. she has to borrow the winchester sisters’ clothes, because she has to start changing clothes but also because she can’t fucking walk in jimmy’s heels or in that confining skirt without the assistance of her grace. 

all the winchesters’ clothes look baggy on her because she’s kind of spindly and narrow and flat as a board. like dean and sam have big shoulders, big hips, and big breasts, and cas has zero out of three, so anything she wears looks like a smock. she keeps wearing the coat over whatever they give her. she’s tallish (five feet eight or nine inches?) but dean is taller and sam is freakishly tall. cas could probably pass for a man alone but when she’s with dean or sam it’s obvious she’s a woman just because of the heights.

when she returns to angelhood at the end of season five, she’s wearing jimmy’s white office button down, but no bra underneath because the only reasons she would need one would be to either make her boobs look bigger or to hide her nipples and cas isn’t interested in either of those things and bras are uncomfortable, no blazer on top, a set of cargo pants that look feminine and form fitting on dean because dean is in possession of an ass and hips, but baggy and dykey on cas because she is not, combat boots (also dean’s), and the coat, and her hair is just like canon cas’ hair but way choppier because dean cut it for her.

anyway, dean treats cas in a WILD way, like. they do some intricate rituals in season four? they are dean winchester and castiel, after all. but after cas butches up in season five and then stays that way dean pushes it into overdrive. “i wish you were a boy so i could date you” shit. dean lets cas put a hand on the small of her back. she jokes that cas is her boyfriend. when cas sleeps, they sleep in the same bed, “since you can’t possibly share with sam, she’s a dyke.” also she called cas cassie a lot when cas looked more feminine but switches exclusively to cas when cas looks more masculine. like it’s this whole “”””straight”””” girl intricate ritual where one is attracted to a masculine woman so one coercively masculinizes her further.

sam tries to check in with cas to see if cas is cool with this forcible masculinization and weird gender relationship, because sam is gay and Understands or at least thinks she does. she also catches wind that cas is here to smash a lot sooner than in canon. but anyway cas rebuffs her because cas hates sam. 

tangent, but one of my least favorite things that happens in mid spn, starting i think in s6, is that they start needing plausible deniability for cas, so they start pretending him and sam are like, friends. like 6.20 “i did it to protect the boys. or to protect myself. i don’t know anymore.” like there’s all this emotional stuff where cas is clearly talking about his emotional connection to dean, but sam gets included in order to make it seem SLIGHTLY less gay. and that’s annoying because of the no-homo-ness but it’s actually more annoying because 1) i liked s5 cas’ bitchiness towards sam i think that killed and 2) if sam and cas are gonna be friends after cas was a bitch and called sam an abomination and shit, develop it! develop it! don’t just Say that they are.

anyway it’s my au and i say what happens so the plausible deniability “both the brothers are important to me” shit does NOT happen and cas is a bitch to sam throughout s5&6. they do eventually bond later? like cas still takes sam’s hell trauma, and sam feels like she owes her for that (even though it was CAS’ FAULT IN THE FIRST PLACE but sam is batshit like that). so that’s what kind of gets them to eventually bond a little and become friends and comrades. 

also sam clocks cas as gay. obviously. sam tries to inform cas about being gay. because sam too is gay. it only kind of sticks. cas doesn’t really understand how human societal roles work. cas has HUGE angel autism and i support her.

also as long as we’re talking about five and six, why don’t we deal with male lisa. so obviously the kid thing doesn’t work. the thing that lisa does that makes dean like :o is not “have a kid that might be dean’s” but “tell dean he was going to propose.” this implies that they were dating in the past longer than canon dean and lisa but oh well. 

however, when dean gets pulled back into hunting, she’s six weeks pregnant by lisa and doesn’t know it. cas immediately tells her, and offers to give her an angelic abortion. she accepts without hesitating and cas does it. the fact that this - cas taking ownership of dean’s reproductive organs in a somewhat invasive way, even if it was wanted - contributes to their whole.... season six..... dynamic. dean never tells lisa about this.

that’s everything i can think of. i have work in four hours.

[therealvinelle]

I agree that Aro definitely is not straight, but if he is gay and not bi, why window shop for a wife? If he wanted a partner for some reason, why not find a male one? It was a different era, yes, but are vampires really homophobic?

So, for this meta, we’ll have to get historical. Before we do, keep in mind that while I know Ancient Greece better than most, having studied it (introductory level classes only, mind), I don’t know it well enough to be any kind of authority on the matter. History, more than any other discipline I can think of, is not respected as an academic field, and people with poor to no understanding of historical hermeneutics will make very bold assumptions that they then have too poor understanding of history to realize are bullshit. This is a disclaimer because I don’t want to join in on the chorus of authoritative-sounding people on the internet with no verifiable credentials who spout things about history that are then taken to be gospel truth by readers because the author made it sound good.

More, I say this because your question is asking me to explain the morality and social norms surrounding a character from 14th century BC Greece. And this man would not, for the record have been Ancient Greek, he would have been Mycenaean Greek. Very quick history lesson: Mycenaean Greece was a flourishing society that suffered a downfall, Greek civilization fell into its very own dark ages, until around 800 BC when Greeks began forming what would become the Ancient Greece we know and love. This in turn means that I can’t very well read up on the marital and sexual norms of Ancient Greece when I’m researching for Aro, because he was five hundred years old already when Ancient Greece became a thing.

And your question concerns cultural history. And for that we’re going to have to look at how we know the things we know about history. How history is studied.

Historians have two kinds of sources: archeological findings and written records. (I’m aware that oral tradition, like the one carried by the Aborigine people, isn’t technically one of these, but to my understanding it’ll be treated to similar analysis as written records, which leaves us with the two types of sources standing strong.) These sources are analyzed, and we apply various theories and models onto them to make sense of the context they were written in. The more sources we have, the more we can refine or eliminate these theories or models.

More, history is an ever evolving field. There are movements and schools of thought that influence how history is written (marxism in history, that is, history as a class struggle, was heavy in the 60′s and I think until the 80′s), which means that how a certain culture will be perceived today is not the way it was perceived a few decades ago, nor will it be perceived the same way a few decades in the future.

You see why I am daunted by you asking me to give you an answer about sexual and marital norms for a guy who lived 3000 years ago, and I hope you’ll understand why I feel this word vomit is necessary.

Now, the danger with Mycenaean Greece is that it’s a society it’s easy to feel we know a lot about, because it was the precursor to Ancient Greece, and we know a lot about the latter. But, first of, the reason why we know as much as we do about the Ancient Greeks is the Romans. The Greeks wrote about their history, their philosophy, their government, and they wrote plays and told stories. However, that was two thousand years ago and their writings would have been lost to the sands of time if the Romans hadn’t idolized and sought to emulate their society. This meant preserving their written records. This tradition was carried on by the Christians, in part because Hellenistic philosophy was incorporated into Christian philosophy. We have neo-platonism to thank for Christian asceticism, the “mind over matter” cornerstone.

What I’m getting at with all of this is that we know the insane amount about Ancient Greece that we do because of some very unique circumstances, and so we can make very sophisticated theories about what the Hellenistic world was like. It’s still detective work, but not Pepe Silvia type of detective work. This is not the case for Mycenaean Greece. We know a comparative lot about Mycenaean Greece, considering how long ago it was, but there is very much we don’t know.

With Mycenaean Greece, we are dealing with a lot more uncertainty. We haven’t deciphered one of their two writing styles, and a lot of the text we do have is very fragmentary. Coming up with detailed societal models for Mycenaean Greece, and for the 14th century BC specifically, is... well I don’t know enough about what this society left behind to know what historians have to work with, but I imagine they have their work cut out.

More, I haven’t studied this at all, which means that any attempt on my end to research this would be stumbling around in the dark.

One example: the Illiad and the Odyssey, while composed around the 8th century BC, were set in the early 12th century BC, which is nearly Aro’s time period. The Illiad depicts a homoerotic relationship between Patroclus and Achilles, and both works depict a lot of matrimonies, so I wish I could use it as a source. However, not only would this time gap alone make these sources questionable, but there’s also the matter of the Illiad and the Odyssey being transmitted orally, from bard to bard. Changes were made over the years. For example, the technology described in the Illiad is from several eras, as the warriors will be using bronze weaponry in one book and then switch to iron in the next. This game of telephone is what happens when a story is transmitted orally from person to person. So, while it’s tempting to use these works as a sort of reference point, the possibility, likelihood even, that the bards made adjustments to keep the old story entertaining for their contemporary audience is strong.

For this reason, I can’t give you any kind of historically correct analysis on what the marital or sexual mores would have been like in Aro’s time. Even if the knowledge is out there, I don’t have it.

But I can say this, spouses have for the longest time been partners. Men and women got married, even in the gay, gay, Ancient Greece, not just to have children but because they complemented each other, they were partners. Men needs wives, and women needs husbands. And a partner was canonically exactly what Aro was looking for, feelings had nothing to do with it:

After Caius and Marcus had found their romantic attachments, Aro decided to find his own, although rather than finding his other half in another vampire Aro decided to create his own instead. Aro had a certain type of woman in mind and he found what he was looking for in Sulpicia. He successfully courted her and she came to fall in love with him.

As for vampires being homophobic, I think that is for another post about what culture they bring with them into their new life. But to be brief I’ll say that while the individual vampire can be homophobic, there can be no homophobia at an institutional level because vampires have no institutions. And it’s the institutional homophobia that gets ya. It’s what the whole fight for gay rights has been about: secure legislation against discrimination and that protects gay people. (The right to marry and protection from employees firing LGBT employees comes to mind as examples of this.)

So, no one could force Aro to marry a woman. 

And I’d go into a rant here about how the prospect of gay marriage, of even identifying as homosexual (the labels homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual are very new and, to my recollection, were born off of the Western psychiatric discipline as men who slept with other men were diagnosed with homosexuality. I imagine a man from the Antiquity would be confused at the notion that just because he likes to sleep with dudes he shouldn’t get married to a woman), was unthinkable up until very recently, but I just made this obscenely long rant about how I can’t really make these kinds of guesses, so I’m not gonna.

I think being married to a woman and then banging hot dudes who came along suited Aro just fine.

Also, I can’t believe I’m doing this, but - I’m going to encourage history asks. Because this fandom has a bit of a history problem, as a lot of the characters are from different time periods and many feel unsatisfied with the way Meyer handled that. I am by no means a historian, but I know several of the historical periods the characters of Twilight are from well enough to make educated guesses.

So, hit me with your worst.

[asagimeta]

The time has come again to remind everyone that good queer representation does not necessarily equal morally good queer characters

I’ve heard that apparently there’s a renaissance of anti-Hannibal going on lately? And that + the rise in popularity of media like Helluva Boss and Killing Eve, and the addition of more openly queer charectors in existing media- from comic book based media to long-running shows like American Horror Story- I feel like this needs to be said again- not necessarily by me but I posted about it way back when Hannibal originally aired it’s finale so I figure, what the hell

Good representation =/= morally good characters

You can have both, absolutely, but you can also have them separate, and you can have all combinations of the reverse too

Ofcourse, to be clear right in the beginning, what counts as “good” representation vs “bad” reputation is going to vary from person to person, everything from life experiences to media exposure to personal opinions will dictate where you land on the sliding scale of “good” or “bad”, someone who’s consumed quite alot of queer-focused media, for example, is going to have a very different opinion than someone who’s only seen one background gay in a TV show that one time, and someone who’s a really huge fan of horror is going to have a much different opinion than someone who’s only a fan of lighter-hearted fair

With that said, in my personal opinion, the measure of good vs bad representation relies less on the character and more on the presentation of said character- less, not entirely

To get what I mean, here’s the best example I can think of:

Castiel from Supernatural is, objectively, a good charactor- if nothing else he’s morally good by most standards, certainly by the time season 15 rolls around, but his canonically queer presentation is just.... horrible, horrible representation and I’ve only met literally one person myself who disagreed with that

Cas is presented as being a really tragic figure right from the start of his coming out- the one thing in the world that would make him truly happy for even a single moment is confessing that he’s in love with Dean, even if Dean rejects him, just saying it is enough, that is..... sad

If it had been framed differently, it actually could have been very good representation, in a “I don’t need you to validate me, I’m being honest about who I am for the first time in my life and that’s enough, I’m enough” way, but it wasn’t, it was framed as pining, as “Even if you don’t love me, my acknowledging openly that I love you is enough to make me happy”, and again that could have worked if framed differently but.... it’s followed up by the infamous “Gay angels go to Super Mega Turbo Hell” thing and like.... no....

Cas is a good character who is queer, he is not a good queer character, because his existence as a queer character lasted less than five minutes and was immediately followed by literally going to what’s worse than hell for expressing his queerness

There is no way I can express the amount of levels of Bad that is, to say nothing of how Dean treats the entire experience for like.... ever... from there on out

But now let’s look at Hannibal, who is objectively a pretty bad character morally- he’s stupendously written but yeah I mean look the dude eats people there’s just no getting around that

But I would argue that he’s excellent queer representation because of how he was presented

Hannibal’s sexuality is never defined, for starters, there’s never a “very special episode” moment where he has some long-winded coming out speech, in fact we don’t quite know how he identifies but because he’s written so artfully we don’t really need to, his exact sexuality doesn’t feel like it needs to be known because, frankly, not much personal information is known about Hannibal anyway, and sexuality feels like one of those arbitrary things that he wouldn’t really care about defining

And that’s the other thing- he’s far from sexless and yet he places no emphasis on sex, he isn’t hypersexualized but he also isn’t being kept as a Ken doll to preserve the message of gay purity (because I don’t know apparently there’s a Thing some people have about how gay people aren’t allowed to be sexual???) he’s just... a person

And that’s really what it comes down to that makes him great, he’s a person first and queer second... or third.... or fourth or fifth.... it never defines who he is, it’s just part of who he is, and regardless of your opinion on Hannibal specifically, I think that is something most queer people strive for in representation

It’s great to have stories that are focused on queerness but it’s equally exhausting to only be able to have characters who’s lives revolve around their sexualities, it’s nice to go into media and go “Oh that character that I already like for these reasons is also queer, that’s so cool!”

Hannibal also skillfully side-steps stereotypes, despite falling into the category of being “polite, thin, and neat”, despite loving fine wine and fine art and fine culture, he never feels like a flamboyant theater kid with a decoration-diploma, wich is how alot of queer characters in this category can feel

His story is about alot of things and his relationship with Will is at the center of much of it, but that relationship didn’t become explicitly queer until the show was almost over- not because it was sudden or poorly written but because it was a slow build up, wich is also refreshing, as alot of times it feels like queer characters are made as explicitly queer as they’re allowed to be as quickly as they’re able to be on screen so that the show can grab those important Representation Brownie Points from episode one and either introduce a Manwhore or a Uhaul Lesbian right away and just kind of leave them in that trope until “someone comes along and changes that” or whatever, I don’t even know what straight writers do half the time, but Hannibal- as a show and a charactor- doesn’t do that, he’s just allowed to exist and tell his story, and THAT is good representation

With the heavy-handed example over with though, I want to tackle the biggest part of this entire “debate” that makes me interested in it:

Queer people are allowed to be bad people

Queer people are allowed to be lazy and unattractive and non-political and angry and jealous and yes, “bad” and evil too

Wile I DEFINITELY prefer to have morally good characters- especially after literally a century of rarely getting more than The Evil Homosexual stereotype and all it’s kin- I also don’t like the direction some people are taking this where queer people are only “allowed” to be 100% morally flawless and good and righteous at all times because it’s just so unrealistic, and because it does the exact same thing that the opposite stereotype does: Puts queer people in a box, makes us a decoration for the straight cast so that the creators get Representation Brownie Points and can’t get yelled at on Twitter, and treats us like we’re some other species (and not in the cool way like werewolves but more like... well, decorations, as I’ve said before)

And if you’re worried about the way straight-cis people perceive us due to seeing evil queer characters, you should be equally worried about how they perceive us seeing nothing but morally flawless ones

I could get into An Entire Thing about the history of Straights trying to turn queer people into what they want us to be and present an inaccurate depiction of us to their brethren for their own benefit but I’ll make it relatively simple

The old way of keeping The Queers away from their Innocent Straight Children was to turn us into villains so that we would be ashamed of who we really are and hide ourselves and pretend to be The Good Christian Folk nextdoor and not get overly political or loud or different

The new way of keeping The Queers away from their Innocent Straight Children is to turn us into sexless Ken & Barbie stereotypes so we can be ashamed of who we really are and pretend to be The Good Christian Folk nextdoor and not get overly political or loud or different

By sterilizing queerness into something they find more “acceptable”, they’re doing the same thing they used to, but now through a lens of “Aren’t you happy you get what you want? You can get married now! You can hold hands in public! Just make sure not to do any of that other crazy stuff you people get up to and you can stay at the Civil Rights Table :)”, we’re still not “allowed” to be sexual human beings, it’s just framed in a way that makes us feel like the people shunning us are on our side wile those same people are still in the corner going “Just don’t kiss in public ok?”

And I could go On about this for some time but let’s get back to the point-

Queer people are three-dimensional people and we should be allowed to be so, we should be allowed to have characterization outside of The Gay Love Interest and The Gay BFF and The Gay Butler and so on, outside of the stereotypes being imposed on us

That’s one of the main reasons I love Yuri On Ice so much, and love Batwoman so much.... and one of the main reasons I love Hannibal and Harley Quinn and Helluva Boss and Killing Eve so much, all of these things star queer characters and queer relationships to different degrees (Batwoman, for example, makes a MUCH larger point and political stance about queerness than, say, Hannibal) and they’re all about something other than queerness too, the charecters are three-dimensional and they’re not built around their sexualities or side peices for straight people

And none of them are PUNISHED for their sexualities either

Going back to Castiel earlier, stereotypes are hardly the worst of our worries when Burry Your Gays, Gayngst Induced Suicide, and Gay Guy Dies First are still alive and well- among others

From Frank N’ Furter in Rocky Horror Picture Show to Tara in Buffy The Vampire Slayer to, oh look, it’s Supernatural again with not just Cas, but also Charlie, and even arguably Dean (but that’s a much longer story for a much different time) and many many more... sometimes just having any gay charecter live through a franchise is enough on it’s own- setting the bar awfully low there but it’s still hard for a shamefully large amount of franchises to step over

In some cases like Tara, it can be pretty decently argued that the death has little- if anything- to do with queerness, but in examples like Cas and Frank, it’s pretty blatantly obvious, especially when the other queer characters in their respective franchises didn’t exactly fair well either....

Matt Baume put it best when he said that until recently, you had to choose if you wanted your only source of representation to be dead or evil, and most people chose evil

Now-a-days that’s clearly not the case as much but there’s still a heavy enough flavor of it there- and villains are just part of gay culture, dating all the way back to prohibition, queer people identified as outlaws because we literally were, so pirates and cowboys and other anti-heros and villains became a staple of the culture that’s still very much alive to this day, thus leading to another point: Identification

Straight people can identify with pretty much whoever they want- from superheros to princesses to any and every kind of villain

Tony Soprano is a horrible, horrible person but is notorious for being beloved among straight white males because he’s a projection of who they want to be- powerfull (and wealthy)

Stolas from Helluva Boss actually presents a pretty similar power fantasy, he’s part of a family who lives outside the larger part of the law, he can kill (nearly) anyone he pleases, he’s physically and socially powerfull, he’s wealthy, he has a nuclear family, he gets to screw around with whoever he wants with the only one taking issue being his wife, the only real difference is that Stolas is queer (and much more fashionable... and pleasant)

Queer people should be allowed to have those power fantasies as much as straight people are

Speaking as a bisexual female myself, I absolutely ADORE Villanelle from Killing Eve, I really don’t care that she’s a bitch or has killed an uncountable amount of people, it’s fun to project on her, and seeing a very flawed woman fall in love and be vulnerable and open herself up to a relationship and get that relationship with another woman is AMAZING to me, that doesn’t make the relationship it’s self healthy or good, but it’s still fun to watch and plays further into that identification

I love Korra and Asami from Legend Of Korra, they’re a sweet, wholesome relationship between two sweet, wholesome characters and I adore them... but I’m allowed to adore Eve and Villanelle too, even if the relationship is toxic and the characters have baggage and Villanelle is literally a serial killer

Ofcourse enjoying something doesn’t make it “good”, I enjoy alot of trash B rated (and C rated) horror movies too, it doesn’t mean I think they deserve Oscars (if that’s really the measuring stick we’re going to use), but I think when it comes to representation, it’s important to distinguish the difference between good queer character and a moral queer character, they just... aren’t the same

Light Yagami from Death Note, Bill from Kill Bill, and Joker from Batman are all just... horrible, horrible people, there’s no doubting that, they are morally terrible... but my god are they fantastic charecters- they’re interesting, they’re three dimensional (even if only occasionally in the Joker’s case), they’re well written and complex, there’s a reason why they’re iconic and why they’re still talked about decades after their introduction into the world, they are GREAT characters who are morally bad, and characters like Hannibal and Villlanelle are in that boat too, they just so happen to be queer- and there’s what it all boils down to

People being queer, not queer people

Some of the most beloved examples above like Yuri On Ice and Legend Of Korra are praised for being about people who are queer, people who have stories focused on other things and are just allowed to exist without their sexualities defining them, and the same should be said and appreciated for villains who are queer too

In an age where so much queer-focused media is about tragedy (the period lesbian dramas and Gayngst teen media for example), and so much of it is focused on the same exact aspects of queer life (coming out, dating around, getting or being married, but mostly coming out), it’s great to have characters who just so happen to be queer without those things being the center of their storylines- and without them being canon fodder or the Gay BFF, or being a terrible stereotype from the 90s that just won’t die...

And that by no means is to say you have to like these characters- not at all, there are PLENTY of objectively good/well-written queer characters who I don’t like for whatever reason- but to call them bad representation just because they’re bad people is sweeping ALOT under the rug

And I know I’ve harped alot on avoiding queer-centered storylines like coming out stories and relationship dramas, but those are fine, they have their place just like everything else, really, they just don’t need to have the only place- that does a disservice to so many other types of queer stories- for the heroes and the villains, because morality and goodness have nothing to do with one’s sexuality, just like one’s sexuality has nothing to do with morality and goodness

[bestnoncannonship]

I'm drowning in the gender sandbox guys.

I am agender. At least....I think I am. It's the closest to what I'm feeling. In that I really do not have an attachment to any gender and cannot conceive how people identify with a gender. Like....they just FEEL a gender? All the time? No matter what they look like and what they're wearing they FEEL a gender?? Whaaaa??? Sounds hella fake but okay.

And now I'm gonna talk about that and my experience for a while, in a series of ways that's probably gonna get the gender and sexuality neo-puritans to come yell at me for not being ritually pure enough in the way I talk but.....I'm talking from my own brain, baby. This is the toolkit I'm packing right now and the world I live in and I just need to spit it out. Maybe see if it resonates with people who know more than me. I don't know. Help.

I didn't question being a woman for the longest time. I grew up in a rural area culturally dominated by "Christians" (Not Catholics. I was Catholic. That comes with a whole different set of religious traumas pre-installed. I mean the ScAaRy protestent and nondenom Christians.) You didn't question anything. Not an adults orders. Not authority. Certainly not straightness. Gender was biological. I'd never heard of a trans person. There were rumors of Gays™. For most of my life it was just "Gender is the meat suit you got stuck with, right? I got stuck with this meat suit so it's my gender, I guess." And when I finally left the middle-o-nowhere for Le Citè and I met some (mostly bianary) trans people I was like "OH! OKAY!! Having strong feelings about being in the wrong meat suit can make a gender!" And the non bianaries that I met were still playing on that bianary scale. The "bit of boths" and the "different genders for different days" varieties. They has strange attachments to genders. And the whole retoric of "Questioning your gender and feeling things about you gender is the indicator that you might be trans!!" Just furthered my feeling that I must just be female by default cause like.....I didn't question anything. I didn't think about gender. I had a COMPLETE lack of feelings about gender whatsoever and that was normal, right?? Just meat suit gender. I certainly didn't have a strong feeling about wanting to be the opposite: *gag* a man?? A straight white man? Nope! I have no desire to be a bianary man and frankly I find 99 percent of men and male culture traumatic. So I must just be meat-suit gender.

And yes, I wanted to scrape my breasts and hips and thighs off with a cheese grater. But I wrote that off as a symptom of having started putting a finger down my throat after meals when I was 6 and having a family that forced hour upon hour exercise with their thighs and tummies wrapped in saran wrap and sang "I don't love her! She's too fat for me!" to a literal toddler and put that same toddler in oversized clothes to hide the healthy baby squish that toddlers HAVE. OF COURSE I wanted to die when my breasts grew in and my hips and thighs filled out. They were evil fat deposits. And they meant nothing but unwanted attention from yucky men. (Lesbianism to be discovered some 15 years later. My comphets we're almost as bad as my compgenders.) It had nothing to do with gender. Gender is just the meat suit ....and I already hated the meat suit by the time I had breast buds, they just enhanced a disgust that I thought was normal by then. Everyone kind of hates their meat suit, right?? Yes I wanted to look like men sometimes.....but they were skinny heroin chic men. I also wanted to look like kate moss. I wanted to look like a sideways door but my family is Italian and we have hips and thighs. It's just the meat suit I was assigned. Just have to learn to deal with it and dress it in the way that it looks most socially acceptable and get on with life. And my meat suit had a very gendered look, even in the deepest throws of my illness. "All woman." "The curves of a real woman." So that was just the hand I was dealt. Like having a hard to match foundation undertone. You don't gotta like it, it's just reality. Yes, I wanted to wear nothing but waistcoats and gay vampire clothes but they weren't cut for my body type so *shrug*.

Did I start to have way too much fun cosplaying and embodying male characters? Yes. But that was just identifying with characters. I'd always identified with characters. Did I still distinctly identify with the character's gender, even when I femmed the costume to avoid the hellish pain of binding? Yes. Did it make me feel weird when people referred to my Thor as a woman, even though it was technically a femme? Yes. But that was just feminism. Heroes don't need to be called girl heroes. No gender issues here!! Besides it's not weird in fandom circles to stongly identify with people across gender lines. The fact that I found the gendernope option if there was one available in the fandom and *attached* was surely just coincidental. Right??

Did I absolutely loose my mcfreaking mind when the gyno started talking about having to take my uterus away because the amount of blood it was loosing was doing irreparable harm to my body? Yes. My gender is my meat suit. When you take it away....what am I???? A *gag* man??? Nothing at all?? Am I still even human?? If I am not *gag* male and you take away the female part of the meat suit am I an aphid? A plant? A chair? But I was comforted by a chorus of voices saying "No!! You're a WOMAN. Infertility doesn't make you not a woman! You still have a woman's body!! Because you're a woman!!! Just look at you in your skirts and with your long hair!! You're a woman!!!" So.....still a woman, I guess. Because I still LOOKED like one. Gender = the PRESENTATION of the meat suit. That made sense. The structure of my meat suit made me limited to woman-presentation. So I was woman.

Then, it was the stupidest thing, I was talking to the other half of my life on the 4/5 train on the way to a friend's house about HER issues with gender presentation and the amount of attention to detail it takes to be socially acceptable as female and she said "You just know you're a girl. Like if they just picked you up and put you in a robot body you'd be a girl?" And I was like "......no? I'd be a robot?????" "But you'd still feel like a girl???" "No.....I'd feel like a ROBOT." "BUT you'd still like hear she/her and identify with those???" "No. I'd probably identify more with It/it's because that's what I'd be. A ROBOT!" And she's like "But what if your brain got transplanted into a boy body???" "Then I'd be a boy." "But what would you feel like?" "A BOY?" "Okay but what if you had a very neutral body with like no genitals? What would you feel like then??" "I mean....then it would depend on how I'm dressed. I'd feel like what I was dressed like." And we went around like this till she surmised that my entire relationship to gender was basically "You are what you look like." Which is apparently NOT how people relate to their own gender. They "feel" it somehow?? (I genuinely thought "FEELING" like a gender was what made trans people.) I feel nothing. I identify with a lot of things and ZERO of them are a gender. I thought that was normal. I thought that was the default. Apparently it's not. And then if you ask me what I want to be.....I can't answer. I really don't want to be a gender. I guess I want to be able to put different genders on at my will, like outfits, for societal convenience. But I don't "identify" with any of them. Hell, I have sweaters I identify with more than any particular gender. But there aren't really systems in place for describing and portraying that.

Gender.exe was not installed.

I did a lot of research. Agender felt closest. I actually felt closest to a Good Omens meme about Aziraphale describing his gender as "No, thank you!" That's what I feel like. But all the agender folks were vibing that moment. So I joined 'em. I am aware that puts me under the trans umbrella, but I don't really identify with that word. I don't feel like there's any transition. Any changing. Can't change what was never there. Also I feel like it's for people who....CAN present as their gender. I would be seen as an invader in those spaces. Its not bad enough to justify being in those spaces. I can live with being gendered. I just don't have one.

In the society we live in one cannot present as "not a gender". Someone with MY body definitely cannot present as "not a gender". The clothes that they make in size "giant human with planet tits" are agressively gendered. And even in a binder.....they're still REALLY there. (Yes, a reduction is desirable but I don't have reduction money.....and you can't reduce the fact that I'm the bowl shaped robust extreme female hipbone they use in Forensic Anthropology textbooks.) It is what it is. My body will always be perceived the way it's perceived. And frankly a lot of what we perceive as genderless is just "skinny body in masc style with short hair and makeup". That's not really want I want. I don't want to cut off my hair. It's my one really good feature and I've worked hard to grow out these Valkyrie worthy lengths. Mens clothes are so limiting. And there are no gender: no thank you clothes. (One well meaning friend kept trying to send me "genderless" clothes......but it was all rail thin afabs in mens clothes with short hair and heavy makeup. That's not looking genderless. That's just being skinny.) Gender no thank you presentation is very tied to short hair and thin bodies. So I've accepted that I don't get to play in the gender sandbox outside of the privacy of my own mind. It's a societal flaw. But whatever.

But pronouns are starting to really bother me. Everyone is so into them and identifying with them. And like.....I don't get it. I don't get the joy. I don't think I've found the one. Like.....I'm used to she. I will always be read as she. I will always be Miss and Ma'am in stores and restraunts. So I just kind of roll with it. I don't hate it. I don't like it. It's just a thing that I have to have to exist in society. Like a social security number. I actually think I identify with my social security number more. There's no point in making myself uncomfortable with something that's just going to be a part of my life. And I don't want to be the kind of person who expects people to address me by a pronoun they can't see and aren't used to. It's too much to ask of the average citizen of a gendered society to go through that much gender theory for just me. So "she" is an inevitable part of my life. And He....well ......I don't hate it. I dont like it. It's just there. I certainly don't get called it. And I'm not capable of presenting it well enough for this to be relevant. Now they......fuck I HATE they. I hate that it's the acceptable pronoun for anyone not bianary male or female. It just rubs me the wrong way. When people refer to me as they, I feel like they're referring to me and the host of mental illnesses I carry around and you don't have permission to address those troops thank you very much. They causes a genuine squick. But it's kinda the only widely acceptable option. I kinda like "it". I VIBE with it. It feels good. Unfortunately the people in my life have a certain reluctance about calling me it as they believe that happy vibe around a traditionally dehumanizing pronoun may be a trauma symptom. They might be right so I'm tabling "it" till I find a good therapist. Also...I cannot ask strangers to call me it. I don't have the confidence it takes to explain why and I frankly don't want to be faced with the criticism and questions I would face because I am unable to make my body be perceived as Nonbinary. I don't have the confidence or conviction to face that every day forever. Ditto neopronouns. I also haven't found one that I vibe with at all yet.

And queer labels get harder when you pull away from gender entirely. Like ... I am a Lesbian. I am solely attracted to women. But now I'm getting a lot of "You can't be a lesbian if you don't have a gender!!!" And like ...can I??? I like being a lesbian. It feels right. It conveys what I want it to convey. I like the exclusion of men entirely, after being taught to structure my life around men. I have a kinship with womanhood. It's where I was raised. It's how people see me. I just don't identify with it. It's not how I see myself. I guess that can kind of exclude me from the label? All of our terms are defined by being attracted to "your own gender" or "the opposite gender" or "both your own gender and other genders" and like ... I don't have a gender. And the opposite of nothing is....?? Fuck if I know? So what term am I allowed to use? I love queer for exactly this reason. But it just doesn't have the same clarity that lesbian does.

So I'm just kind of in a hole rn. Grappling with the fact that I really don't have a gender in a gendered world, and dealing with the fact that so much of our understanding and acceptance of gender is about presentation, a door closed to my body. I don't have the confidence or the spoons or the knowledge or the experience to fight this fight. The path of least resistance is sticking my head back into the sand and going with straightforward womanhood....but now it feels like I'm lying. I feel like an intruder in woman's spaces. And I can't go in men's spaces, they see me as....well...a woman. Lesser.

Someone out there who's better at the genders please help.

[sariels-world-ella]

"A is for apple b is for boy and c is for cat" is now Dead

The alphabet has a new meaning!

A is Asexuality/Aromantic,

it exists and is vaild don't forget about them

B is for Bisexual,

Bisexual is not just liking both genders 50/50 it can be any percentage and it's okay either way!

C is for Cisgender is okay

You are vaild as much as a transgender or a genderqueer and vise versa

D is for Demi

Everyone on the Asexuality spectrum is 100% okay!! (I'm Asexual Demiromatic myself)

E is for everyone is vaild

Straight, Bi, Gay, queer, trans, cis or anything else you identify as is okay, you deserve to feel safe in your own skin

F is for Friends and Family should be supportive

Love is love, This applies to Familial and Platonic too. Don't shun them for their differences love them for who they are.

G is for Gender

Genderqueer? Transgender? Bigender? Agender? Bigender? Cisgender? Pangender? Demigender? We are all vaild here.

H is for heterosexuality

You like the opposite gender, alright then. I understand, cool, you're as vaild as any gay or Bi person, we are all on the same boat here, no need to fight.

I is for inclusion without discrimination

Include everyone, don't discriminate against race, gender, identity, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, or ableness, only hold hate towards an individual who wronged you without remorse, not the group.

You're gay? that's alright, there is room for you! You are Straight? Cool, welcome board! Bi? Nice! Ace? All right then!

Super straight? Uhh... i guess...? It's alright.... technically, speaking...

J is for Jewish

Don't believe Jesus is the messiah? I understand why you do, but don't forget or don't let THEM forget that you all and The Christians worship the same god, you are not enemies, you are allies and are equally in your God's presence.

K is for kindness

Be nice to everyone, even if they don't need it. Moral reward doesn't always come, but don't make that the reason you don't help someone. Be there for them because you sure wish someone would do the same for you, don't you?

L is for love

As long as it's not pedophilia or you're a toxic relationship, love is love, weither it's love for friends, family, lovers, god, strangers, underlings or superiors, it is wonderful

if it's to the opposite gender, great! If it's to the opposite gender, awesome! If they have no gender? Yay! You found love!

M is for mental illness

If you are nerudiveragent or diagnosed with a mental disorder, as long you know right from wrong, you are vaild and deserve to live without discrimination, YOU ARE NOT BROKEN, YOU ARE NOT A BURDEN, you are a unique person and as worthy of opportunity as ones without.

N is for non-binary

Don't identify as male or female? Brilliant! Want to use they/them pronouns? Lovely! You are who you are, don't let others force you into gender stereotypes or roles.

O is for Only you can decide who you want to be

Don't let people try to change who you are unless it helps you grow and become a better person, if you want to be gay be gay, if you want to be trans, be trans, if you want to be a pedophile, burn in hell.

P is for parents

If you're child isn't perfect, who cares? If they are not committing crimes you shouldn't hate them because they are queer, mentally ill or not what you wanted them to be.

Q is for queer.

Queer can also mean weird, and everyone is weird, don't fight it.

Penguins can be gay and the other penguins don't judge, Flowers are bigender and no one gives them crap, sea anemones are asexual and we concider it something worth learning, clown fish can change their gender and there is no one judging them, lemurs more often than not have female leaders and Female Hyenas are the dominant ones and they don't discriminate, a gorilla, which using sign language, she was able to know what humans are doing to the earth was wrong, and yet humans concider themselves the greatest creatures in earth.

R is for Religion.

You can believe what you want and who you want, god or gods, or maybe none at all, that's alright as long as you don't force it upon others you can have faith in what you wish to have faith in.

S is for Someday

Someday we will be accepted, Someday we will be treated equally, SOMEDAY we are at peace, SOMEDAY WE CAN LIVE WITH OUT SUPPRESSION AND DISCRIMINATION.

BUT THAT DAY WILL NEVER COME IF YOU DON'T FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT

T is for Trans

Transgender people are real people, you chromozones may say something else but if you want to defy that, then go ahead.

You are you, you deserve to have the body you identify as, and maybe someday we can do that without having to pay a ton of money keeping us from being who we truly are.

U is for understanding

You need to be understanding of others who are different from you, not everyone is the same and that's what makes this world so beautiful but if you change it to fit a mold you strip it from that. UNDERSTANDING IS THE KEY TO ACCEPTING

V is for violence solves nothing

Fighting fire with fire makes more fire, only water will distinguish the flames.

W is for wishing

Everyone can wish for something, everyone can have the same idea for something, only once YOU make it a reality will it come true, stop waiting for others to save you, if no one's coming, get out the hole yourself and get there at your own pace

X is for xylophone.

Xylophones are usually rainbow are they not? And no one hates them for it.

Y is for you.

You can decide who you are and what you can achieve, don't let people get in the way of your goals unless you are committing an act of unforgivable sin

Z is for zoophilla

Uhhh....

We all have our own standing on that one...

Reblogs, and reposting with links to the orginal post are welcome, spread the word!