#also i love how often john is paralleled with azazel and how he comes to represent sam and dean's fate just as much as him

[incesthemes]

as i've rewatched seasons 1 and 2 of supernatural i've been pondering and hypothesizing reasons why john was so adamant on not letting sam know about his destiny. why he was so intent on keeping this secret, why he didn't want sam knowing about monsters, why his role in their hunts appeared to be research-oriented and thus away from the action. my perspective on ignorance and censorship is that it enables further harm, so if john were going to effectively protect sam, it would stand to reason that sam should have a comprehensive understanding of his destiny and what he's up against: give him the tools to fight.

this is obviously not the route john went, so then i have to question why that is—what about censorship was so appealing to him that he thought it not only the best way to keep sam safe, but perhaps even the only way to keep him safe, based on how he begged even dean to keep sam's fate a secret from him in his final words?

so i got to thinking. namely, about the fact that azazel wants sam to be hunting: he killed jessica with the intent to drag him back into the life, which implies that if sam is hunting, he is going down the path azazel wants him to go—he's following his destiny. this aligns with the everpresent theme throughout season 1 that hunting is a monstrous lifestyle, that hunting turns people into monsters. if sam is destined to become a monster, then hunting is the most sure-fire way to get him there.

if azazel wants sam to hunt, then john would need to take the logical opposition and keep sam out of hunting—so, he wouldn't tell sam about monsters until he has to, he'd give sam more passive roles once sam is participating in hunts, he'd train sam in self-defense but not explain why. and importantly, he wouldn't talk about mary, who is the root cause of this lifestyle, the impetus for their revenge quest, more than he has to. if the goal is to keep sam as far away from hunting as possible, and if john is someone who thinks ignorance keeps someone safe, then this more or less explains most of how sam was raised: on the fringes of the family, excluded and sheltered.

but weirdly enough, it wasn't until i was reading east of eden the other night that i finally understood the perspective being presented: late in the novel, the character lee says "when the first innocence is gone, you can't stop."

it made me remember that sam picks. he is a character who wants to understand the world around him and his place in it. if something is bothering him, he turns it over in his head until it consumes him. dean places doubt in sam's head in 2x10 and it obliterates him by 2x11. he's convinced he's going to become some horrible monster because he never stops thinking and trying to figure things out. when his memory is wiped in 4x17 and normal guy sam wesson finds out his coworker is the guy from his weird dreams, he pursues him relentlessly until they're back hunting. when he discovers the wall death put in his mind to keep his hell trauma out in season 6, he pushes and can't stop until it starts crumbling around him. he's intelligent and clever and he wants to know everything. and when he doesn't know, he picks.

and the only way to stop a person like that from picking is to not let them know that there's something to pick at in the first place. that's what the quote from east of eden means: once you catch wind of something, you want to pursue it until you're satisfied. curiosity kills the cat.

and what john is up against is fate itself. something that isn't supposed to be messed with, something that's supposed to be unavoidable. so trying to thwart it is tricky business. he has to be careful.

i think working under that logic his response makes sense, even if it wound up being a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway—sam was always going to find out, and sam was always going to pick. there was nothing john could do in the end to stop it, and trying to keep sam ignorant only made him that much more desperate to know. but that's the great tragedy of it all: john was given an impossible choice, and he's a deeply flawed character. he did what he thought was best, and it only made things worse.

i like this interpretation because it ties all of john's choices together really well; it explains a lot about his character and gives a nuanced and rather reasonable explanation for why he did what he did: a dad who wants the best for his kid does what he believes will set him up on the path to success. when the first innocence is gone, you can't stop—so john does his damnedest to keep sam innocent, even to his dying breath.

the problem comes down to that someone's damnedest isn't always good enough, and that sometimes someone's damnedest ends up benefiting the enemy instead.

[ruinedsam]

Anyway I really love this because Sam needs people who haven't been sanctioned by Dean in his corner and the fact that they're all demons is something that would torment Sam (which I find very enjoyable because I'm a sicko).

Exactly, you get it. Sam finally has people in his corner that aren’t also in Dean’s (or who won’t prioritize Dean over Sam), except they’re all demons so what is it saying about him that the only beings who prefer Sam over Dean are literal demons, people who live in Hell? What does it say about him that Abbadon and Meg, one a Knight handpicked by Lucifer and the other Azazel’s daughter who is wholly loyal to Lucifer, are the only people not siding with Dean over Sam in this? Lucifer and Azazel ruined his life, yet the people who are empathizing with Sam the most here were people with clear ties to one or both.

And I think that considering there was a rift over Gadreel and Dean got the mark from Cain, we should’ve had another rift during this with Sam siding with Abbadon, make it a very clear mirror of Cain and Abel, only it’s not quite clear if this story will have Abel killing Cain. And Sam’s demon powers should make a reappearance, not sure how bc this is just vague rambles really as opposed to a detailed idea, so we have Dean’s mark slowly turning him into a demon, Sam is ironically the more human one but his powers have grown beyond even what he was capable of in s4 to go along with the idea that the psychic kids were capable of reaching all the powers they collectively had and could extend even farther considering none of them were shown to kill demons until Sam in season 4; I think there should be some kind of fight between Sam and Dean here, Crowley comes to unleash Dean on Abbadon, except this is ultimately about the Cain and Abel of it all so the brothers ultimately go after each other. And since Sam’s demon powers have returned, we keep hearing echoes of all the times Dean has wanted to kill Sam, with John’s final instructions being either the first or last thing we hear and one of them being “at least he dies human,” but Sam hasn’t been fully human since he was six months old and he never needed the feather to fly. Sam’s eyes are glowing yellow by the way, he’s Azazel’s son.

Thinking about these dynamics post Gadreel makes me insane. Dean, the person who is closest to him, betrayed Sam in the worst way by taking away his autonomy and gaslighting him about it and the only people who side with him are the people who are closest to Azazel and Lucifer who started this cycle of robbing Sam of his autonomy in the first place...

And what does this say about Meg and her relationship with Sam. Meg was fine with Lucifer possessing him. She possessed him herself. So it's not like it's about the principle of the thing (Sam's autonomy). In that way she mirrors Dean, who too is fine with someone possessing Sam as long as it aligns with his own goals. Sam is the eternal little brother whose older siblings see his autonomy as something that can be compromised on. (Obviously with Dean it's way worse, he was the instigator of Sam's possession and hid it from him, which Meg did not do, Dean feels entitled over Sam's life in a way that Meg doesn't, but I do think the parallel is there and is something that Sam would notice.)

SPN did so often parallel Sam and Dean to Cain and Abel/imply there was going to be a brother vs brother thing but never really committed to it, I like that they're really going for it in this AU. And Sam with yellow eyes is the best!

[wishbonedean]

I also have very strong, rant-worthy feelings about Mary (largely for personal reasons, shesquite triggering for me) and how she did/didn't fit in. (Also been a while since I watched those seasons, so I'm fuzzy.) I *do* think Mary finally begins to come around towards the end of her (second) life and probably could have had a much better relationship with them had they had more time (but this is the sad boy show, so of course the second hope rises, it gets squashed, a la Cas/Miracle take one/etc).

But however much Mary's characterization upsets me, i think it's important to remember that we never got to see a Mary pre-John (and thus, pre-divine influence). A cupid told Sam and Dean that they initially "couldn't stand each other" until a cupid intervened since they had a destiny to birth Sam and Dean. Not to make this a crossover episode, but young Mary (and even the Mary in the Winchesters spin-off) give me Katniss vibes- she's not dumb, and she knew the risks of having a "normal" life. Even if she wanted it, would she have wanted children knowing she'd racked up a list of monsters that might come out of the woodwork to target them down the line? Dean is often paralleled with Mary, and he is *constantly* hesitating about whether or not having a family is possible even if he did attempt to leave the life - we can't forget Mary was also traumtically orphaned by supernatural violence and if she's constantly paralleled with Dean, she may have had similar hesitations, so why did she go through with having children, knowing that Azazel's 10-year warning wasn't up yet, at the very least, she knew he was coming for her (and more specifically, wasn't planning on killing/targeting her, so she knew he would be coming for something else). Idk, it makes me question whether Mary truly had the agency over her own will to even have children, or was it heaven's influence that pushed her towards that purpose? We won't ever have an answer bc we never saw Mary (in this universe) before she "fell in love" with John.

I like to consider her second coming an awakening of sorts - she wasn't supposed to be alive anymore and had served her purpose, so maybe whatever hold heaven had over her died when she burned on the ceiling. Both her and her sons had to deal with the fallout of her finding her own agency under the circumstances (bc they put a lot of expectation on her as well - which i think is fair even as an adult child to ask of a parent within reason, and childhood wounds are weird and full of magical thinking, i don't blame them for struggling to let go of the childlike ideals they may have held towards her). She clearly needed time, and she made some fucked up choices behind their backs that she knew would damage their trust though, even if her heart was in the right place, so I have a hard time forgiving her, but then, all of TFW have done that to each other at some point so it's not like it's that much worse and I think Dean eventually recognizes hes treating her too harshly as compared to the rest of the family. I do think she's initially held to a higher expectation bc she's the mother, but i think that's what made Sam and especially Dean really struggle with her not being the person they expected her to be - flawed, sometimes hurtful, couldn't even cook! A completely different person from who Dean, at least, thought she was - even though it's nothing new, he'd had no idea she was even a hunter until s4.

I really do like where their arc was going though, bc she was just starting to find where she could fit in the family and dean was finally learning how to make room for the real Mary (esp since he was also learning to make room for his own real self, which, surprise surprise, was independent of Mary's actual influence - he thought she was a good cook and ran with that, becoming a great cook himself and turns out he didnt inherit that, that was all him, again, why i really like having the actual imperfect Mary around for him to identify his own value distinct from his parents who he always felt he got everything from, that nothing he did would be possible without their influence).

I agree, the pearl episode was weird, i chalk it up to weird djinn-like rules and maybe dean (edit: bc it's *crucial* to keep in mind that the pearl is responding to what *dean* wants/needs, whether he is *aware* of what exactly it is he wants/needs) particularly wanting the opportunity to have one night with his family of origin just to get the closure he needed to fully move on and be even more invested in his found family going forward. Maybe he didnt necessarily want John back, but maybe what he really wanted was the ability to *finally* absolve himself of whatever familial duty he felt towards honoring their memory so he could stop feeling so haunted by it (edit: bc let'sbe real, he doesnt need closure with bobby or ellen or jody in that way, none of them haunt him the way his family of origin does, the greater "need" exists in addressing the relationship/role he has with his family of origin - he doesn'teven use the time to focus to greatly on the harm done, they clearly focus on having a good time and dean is satisfied that they were capable of being a family at least once, that they werent a lost cause, and even if they only had one day, they could come together to make it count, and they really did come together to fulfill deans wish with the only opportunity they had - they pulled a lot of shit, but dean will always have this memory that they loved him enough to take his lead and not squander this opportunity). I dont remember much about the episode itself, i could be off-base, but that was more or less my takeaway.

The Winchester Family: A Rant

Can I just say that Sheriff Jody Mills was more of a mother to Sam and Dean Winchester more than Mary ever was, even after Amara brought her back. Like I guess no hate to Mary...? But like isn't the whole thing about the Winchesters is that family isn't just blood. They developed wayy closer bonds than the ones with Mary, and I know it isn't necessarily her fault, but she wasn't there. Like I dunno, I just wasn't in love with Mary coming back, especially since when she did come back, it seemed like she saw they were grown up and like, didn't care..? Like it felt like she went "oh my job is done these are just two grown dudes that I gave birth to once." Like I know its a weird situation, but as a person who grew up watching Once Upon a Time, where like almost the same thing happened, with Snow, David, and Emma, I can't help but compare their reactions and Mary just didn't stack up.

Snow and David were so ecstatic to see Emma and tried so hard to make up for lost time and parent her as much as they could. They kept trying even as Emma pushed them away saying she was grown and that her and her parents were technically the same age. Throughout the show they found a way to still be her parents while still acknowledging she was grown. It was really beautiful to see, but in comparison Mary did not stack up.

Yes, she is a badass, and, yes, her identity should not solely surround her being the boys' mother, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be a mother at all. It would've been nice to see her figure out a way to strike the balance the Snow and David did, and I never got that vibe. In Supernatural, it seemed the opposite. It was Dean and Sam trying to be her sons and she pushed them away for the same reasons. I'm not saying she was a bad person, or even a bad mother, as it was a really weird situation and I can't necessarily blame her for how she dealt with it. What I AM saying, though, is that her name had no right to be carved onto that table. Point. Blank. Period.

Also, by the way, since I'm complaining, that weird episode with the pearl thing that let John Winchester come back so they could have a family dinner?????? As if that could truly be what Dean desired. Are you fucking kidding me. John sucked, made them both feel like shit, abused them, and yet that was the "family dinner" we got. It's been a while since I watched the show, so Idk a timeline, but screw the timeline for a sec. Across the entire show, a true family dinner would be Dean and Cas with their son Jack, Sam as the Uncle with Eileen, Bobby and Jody as the Dean and Sam's parents (because, unlike Mary, I very much feel like Jody struck that balance even though they weren't her actual sons) and Jody's brigade of wayward sisters trailing behind her, Donna as like the step-mother or aunt (Idk how Donna fits, I just LOVE Donna), and Charlie as Sam and Dean's little sister. Jo, Ellen, and Ash pop in with Rufus as those family members that are close, but you can't quite pinpoint how exactly you're related to them. Bonus: Kevin and Linda Tran come over like friendly neighbors because, even though they have a family of their own, the Trans are definitely close to the Winchesters, though, whether they like it or not. As much as I'd like to add Adam (to make up for him being left in the pit), I have a feeling he wouldn't want to. He seemed like a guy who refused to subscribe to the idea that because they were blood, they were family. (Maybe Sam and Dean should've learned a thing or two).

TL;DR:

Sam and Dean had a much bigger, and better, family then just John and Mary, but it was never really acknowledged fully and in the best way.

[estrel]

Catalysts & Changes: a 15x16 Meta

I wanted to talk really quickly about Dean’s change this season, especially regarding 15x16.

My main focus of this meta is to talk about Mary’s impact on Dean being the catalyst for this change we’ve been seeing, but I’m also going to be mentioning some Cas/destiel things to tie into this. So, here we go:

I. Mary as Catalyst & Myth

Mary is Dean’s reason. By that I mean that literally the whole reason Dean hunts--or, rather, continues to hunt, since John honestly forced it on him--was all in the hopes of catching what killed Mary. That was the main purpose of season 1, other than finding John. This is Dean’s motivation, his basis as a character. 

Dean has also mentioned on multiple occasions that Mary was why he was brave, why he kept fighting, and that he often thought about her. 

Dean: I was scared, too. I didn’t feel like talking, just like you. But see, my mom...I know she wanted me to be brave. I think about that every day (1.03 Dead in the Water)

Remember this quote, because I think it’s eerily similar to the one in 15.16 that I’ll talk about later in this post.

This makes sense--she’s his mom, he should be affected in some way about her death. But Dean takes it to the extreme, based his life around it, held on to it for far too long. Sam was different, because he never actually knew Mary, and we know from earlier seasons that their feelings about her are pretty different. 

Meanwhile, almost any time Dean has dreamt of something ideal, Mary was there (think of his djinn dream in 2.20 where Mary never died, and in heaven in 5.16). We can especially see that this is true because of what Amara said in Gimme Shelter:

Dean: What was the point?

Amara: I wanted two things for you, Dean. I wanted you to see that your mother was just a person. That the myth you’d held onto for so long of a better life, a life where she’d lived, was just that: a myth. I wanted you to see that the real, complicated Mary, was better than your childhood dream because she was real. That now is always better than then. That you could finally start to accept your life. (15.15 Gimme Shelter)

Here, Amara was anticipating a turning point. She had wanted Dean to be “released” by having Mary back, but obviously this didn’t happen. Instead, Mary’s death was once again the catalyst for Dean’s change, just like it was the first time when Azazel killed her. We can also see from this that Dean has always been stuck in the past, hence Amara telling him that he should be focusing on now, instead. Another thing to note for future reference is the “real” line. Remember Cas saying “we are” when Dean asks him what is real.

Mary was also not exactly what Sam or Dean--hell, not even the viewers--had been expecting when she returned. She was scared, alone, and had trouble dealing with being back in a new century with her little boys all grown up and even worse-- hunting. But Dean eventually accepted this. He accepted the real version of Mary, but continued to idolize her and bring up the past.

II. Mary’s Death

Now let’s take a look at what’s happened since Mary’s second death:

Denial. Dean hopes Mary isn’t actually dead, even though all signs point to this.

Grief. Dean cries alone at the site of her death.

Blame. Dean blames Jack and Cas for what happened. 

During and after the funeral, Dean avoids talking about it with anyone. However, he is obviously affected by her death. Sam even holds Cas back from going to Dean while burning the pyre. Bobby makes a comment about Dean being a lot like him and not wanting to show his feelings to others.

These all sound like the Dean that’s been built up since season 1. Not dealing with his feelings properly at all, pushing people away, denial. The one thing that makes this time different from other deaths, though, is that--just like the first time Mary died--there's no body to bring back. It's implied in 14.19 that if there had been, Dean would have tried, because he even tells Sam:

Note: This is also an episode where we see Jack being a mirror for Dean by doing exactly that--doing everything in his power to try to bring Mary back by himself. It doesn’t work; Mary’s gone for good. And she’s happy--she’s in heaven! 

In addition to there not being a body, Dean also knows who did it. It's not some unidentifiable yellow-eyed demon that he can spend years tracking down, it's Jack. It's his son, it's someone he can't and won't kill, because he's family, even if he’s guilty. So Dean has no outlet for his rage except to put blame on not only Jack, but Cas (specifically in 15.03 The Rupture, Jack is dead at this point and he pushes Cas away for several episodes). And here is where Dean begins to change.

III. The Shift: Anger, Apologies, and Forgiveness

Because then, in 15.09 The Trap, there is a big, significant shift. Dean forgives Cas:

Dean: You’re my best friend, but I just let you go. ‘Cause it was easier than admitting I was wrong. 

He cries, looks around, and gets on his knees.

Dean: I don’t know why I get so angry. I just know-I just know that it’s just always been there. And when things go bad, it just-it comes out. And I can’t- I can’t stop it. No matter how--how bad I want to, I just can’t stop it. And I forgive you, of course I forgive you. I’m sorry it took me so long to...I’m sorry it took me ‘til now to say it.  (15.09 The Trap)

This is an incredibly important scene because it shows that Dean knows about his anger--the anger that Amara talks about in 15x15, and he wants to stop it. 

Amara: I thought having [Mary] back would release you...put that fire out. Your anger. But I guess we both know I failed at that.

Dean: You’re damn right.  (15.15 Gimme Shelter)

After this, Dean clarifies that he’s not only angry, but furious. This is change, this is change caused directly by Mary’s death--by Amara bringing her back again. Dean might say he is furious, but he has also said before that he wants to stop his anger. And, in many ways, he’s been taking steps towards doing that: 

For example, here in 15.09 when Dean forgives Cas, (gif credit)

and here in 15.14 when he tells Jack he’s trying to forgive him for killing Mary, (gif credit)

and again in 15.16 for not telling Sam and Caitlin about the dead bodies when they were younger (gif credit)

and most recently, at the end of 15.16, when he didn’t tell Sam about Jack dying. (gif credit)

So now we’ve taken the turn towards forgiveness. Dean has been handing out apologies and forgiveness like never before this season, which is a definite change to how it used to be with him. He’s opening up, and he is trying to do better and be better than before. Billie also tells him this at the diner:

(gif credit)

I’m inclined here to believe that Dean is on that road to forgiveness with Jack. I mean, he said it himself in 15.14 that he’s trying, and Cas also vouched for him when Jack asked if forgiveness from Dean was a possibility. So in 15.16, when Dean says they have “no choice” but to let Jack die, it’s not because it doesn’t haunt him. It clearly does, with the entire episode dealing with Dean coping with the deaths of children, even his brother. He doesn’t want Jack to die, but his anger, his fury towards Chuck is taking precedence over that. It’s something he wants to change, but feels like he has no choice in the matter.

To add on to this, Jack has been a clear mirror for Dean this entire season. Dean’s argument with Sam about them having no choice is an indication of this. Just an episode prior in 15.15, Jack told Cas that the choice wasn’t his whether or not Jack died. So the pair ups in 15.17 aren’t all that surprising. With the episode being titled “Unity,” I think that the four of them will reach an agreement by the end of the episode (I keep mentioning agreements in all of my metas, because I think Chuck/Amara and Sam/Eileen’s agreement had important implications, but alas...), and be unified in a new plan to defeat Chuck. 

As for Dean? I don’t think his ending is going to be expected. He is changing--he won’t be making the same decisions he used to make in earlier seasons. 

I also find it fascinating that they made 15.16 a flashback episode to their past as children. Not only did 15.16 show us Dean being annoyed by sex, ignoring a possible love interest (which we were right as an audience to assume it would be written that way, because it has been so many times before), and how he’s dealing with the prospect of Jack’s death (with all of the imagery of dead children), but it really brought to light how much Dean has changed. 

The most obvious way they showed us this was through this scene with Caitlin (who looks eerily like a young Mary...interesting), who says this:

(gif credit)

Dean: Always am.

Caitlin: You have changed. The old you never would have admitted that.

Dean: Well, I’m not sure that’s a good thing.

Caitlin: I think so. What do they say about getting older? You tell the truth more because lies...they don’t make anything better. (15.16 Drag Me Away (From You)) 

Now, ignoring the fact that Dean has admitted this (in 1.03), we know that the only time he has admitted to being scared before was in relation to Mary. But I think what the writers were going for here was not only to highlight Dean’s recent character growth by admitting to Caitlin that he’s changed, but also the running theme of lying this season. I’ve said it before that Sam has been the only one telling the truth in s15, and I think it’ll eventually come into play during the final episodes. The truth/lies aspect will become a central plot point--I mean, it already is. But I think it’ll factor into how the show will end as a whole, especially with this episode and previous ones alluding to normalcy and the possibility of it for Sam. 

I’m going to finish this here, because I’ve dragged on too long, but some other (destiel) things to note are:

Dean falling to his knees in the hallway as a parallel to falling on his knees in Purgatory, praying to Cas, apologizing.

Dean cutting off Baba Yaga’s fingers, whereas Cas restored a woman’s fingers in 15x15. The pastor telling Cas that people are god’s hands; they lift each other up with each finger. The implications of Dean cutting people off, and Cas bringing people together.

another amazing meta regarding 15.16 and another about dean changing + 15.16

[red-hood-vigilante]

hbo spn storylines, drabbles, ideas, thoughts, wishlist, whatever you may call it. it’s messy, nothing makes sense and pretty sure a lot of these contradict each other

more of sam at stanford with jessica/flashbacks. jessica potentially lives but is revealed to be a demon (but she developed actual feelings for sam and really did come to care for him because a demon falling in love with a human would be SO interesting) OR she lives but her memory gets wiped like dean did to lisa OR she dies like she did but she is a ghost that haunts sam (he welcomes it but eventually he lets her go -> character arc). he still dreams about her though and he has her keepsakes with him wherever he goes, her rings, her favourite book, anything that was left of her from the fire

you have to be extremely careful when making deals with demons because they are cunning and evil creatures. they will follow the rules of the deal but will find loopholes to put some sadistic twist on the terms. you want money? of course, too bad you’ll be arrested for fraud before you can use any of it and spend the next ten years in jail before i drag you to hell. you want a perfect husband? sure he’ll love you. in fact, he’ll love you so much he’ll keep you locked up in the basement to keep you safe etc etc. saving a person often becomes the person that causes or leads to your death.

the creation of jack: after s5, when lucifer is trapped in the cage again lucifer fuses his own soul with a human soul to create jack, who escapes to earth to find sam and castiel. i have a longer post about this saved in my drafts

lucifer is trapped for good in the cage after s5 but if he was to return again, dean would kill him while sam would kill michael - this would be nice parallels and a sort of fulfillment of the “one brother must kill the other” prophecy because one brother DO kill another brother, just not their own

more azazel and how he came to the plan of how to free lucifer; opening a hell gate earlier, more experimentations with the demon blood etc

mary was infected with the blood when she was a baby, sam is the first and only second generation special child (longer post about that here)

personally, i want to see more and know more about john and mary’s relationship. when mary died, john and mary had fulfilled their destiny (having sam and dean) so does that mean that his love and dedication to mary post her death was falsely fabricated by the angels to ensure sam and dean would grow up in ideal conditions to become hunters? or maybe, after mary’s death, john wakes up from the spell with two kids he doesn’t recognize and a wife he thinks he loved, but the memories of the past years of his life are like a fever dream; he never wanted to live in a town like this nor was he interested in having kids? but here the house is, and here are his kids, but now he’s alone and empty and with no answers. (idk i just find john and mary and their relationship very fascinating) if the latter, if john and mary see each other again it’s like the spell activates again and they become blindly in love with each other, but once gone, they return to their confused and hazey state of mind, like just woken up from a coma

i do like mary coming back but i love how in s5 when she wasn’t found in heaven it was hinted that she was just discarded because she had fulfilled her “purpose” and i think this adds to the whole notion of how heaven and angels can be really cruel AND how mary is this mythical, religious figure to both sam and dean and we only get to know her through their lenses, like religion and faith

ruby is present for a longer amount of time to make the reveal even more shocking. at one point or another, dean does actually trust her and they all work together on cases for a while. ruby’s backstory as a witch is more explored. i like her death in s4 because she’s in this total state of euphoria and has achieved a goal only she was entrusted with, and she is so convinced sam will understand, until sam holds her down while dean carves her heart out. so we either keep that or she serves lucifer for a while (until he kills her which she is happy about because of her blind loyalty to him, could again mirror dean and john/castiel and heaven) or she serves lucifer and like crowley she realizes lucifer will kill demons after humans (redemption arc, but i don’t really like that, let her be evil!!)

dean and sam helps bela out of her deal and she becomes their go-to person when they need a magic item or book. she doesn’t like it but she owes them. regularly hooks up with jo.

angels are really hollow soldiers - they only follow orders and don’t understand the concept free will or choice or individuality at all. they are extremely righteous and strike without warning often on a whim, often very bloody (explosions a la castiel in swan song). if something fall into what they consider justice they will kill it. no concept of love, attraction or gender. real form can’t be perceived by humans unless they want them to, which leads to eyes melting (pamela) or breaking a person’s mind (in 5.16 zachariah actually says that sam and dean sees him in his vessel bc they’re ‘limited’. so.)

castiel, anna, maybe uriel and some others are exceptions to this, but only becomes so after longer exposure to human’s world. even then, they don’t change their violent whims, just the reasoning and where their loyalty lies

hbo spn is s1-5 stretched out for 8-10 seasons with the aesthetics of s1-2. i’m cutting out demon dean, purgatory, the mark of cain, the men of letters, the alphas, leviathatan, god being the real villain all along and the other worlds because it was just too much and far remived from the roadtrip aesthetic. keeping kevin, charlie (she is introduced via ash bc they’re hacker friends), the trials, rowena, uuuh the angels falling is such an interesting concept but idk if it would fit. maybe metatron? but his motivations are different. soullessness + the concept of souls might be kept if it’s explained better. i’m torn on whether or not to include the campbells

hell, heaven and purgatory are explained but only seen in glimpses, keep these ideas ambiguous and up to interpretation outside of what we hear. remember the line ‘hell is...well, it’s like hell. even for demons’? leave it at that. the exception is 5.16 bc that episode fucks so hard

if we end on swan song and let the show be the tragedy it is, i want to keep the ambiguous ending. is that sam or lucifer? if it’s sam, will he contact dean or walk away? we will never know! there is also no ‘the world is ending’ more than once, it really lost its impact after the second or third time.

idk how i feel about the men of letters - it is logical that there would be organized hunting and an established network and system on how to do things, but for the sake of keeping it hbo-style and grounded, there are no networks beyond the roadhouse and singer’s salvage yard.

i want sam and dean not have a permanent home except the impala, motels and impala ONLY. the bunker had potential but it was just for the sake of convenience it was there with all the lore and answers they needed when it was necessary. maybe eventually they do stop travelling so much when it becomes more about the Big Stuff instead of the episodic cases that requires driving all the time but it will be like an abandoned house in the middle of nowhere. i want sam and dean to never have a physical house as a home but they scrape together whatever they have make something similar to a show

as the show progresses, sam and dean become pretty hated by other hunters because they’ve started apocalypse and have an increasingly shitty reputation. and john was an infamous good hunter but also a dick. everybody knows that people who work with the winchesters often end up dead, that one brother will sacrifice anything and anyone to save the other and that they frequently work alongside demons. even the ones they DO work with (jo, ellen, bobby, rufus, bela) are hesitant to be involved with them

sam’s powers are strong but after killing lilith and the truth revealed to him, he represses the powers in shock and fear of how blinded he was by them and the rush of power they gave him. a little more about how sam fears what the lust for power and strength did to him. he continues to repress his powers, often to a dangerous point where he will be on death’s door as a result of not using them. when meeting jack and mentoring him in using his powers, jack asks him about sam’s powers after sensing them. sam eventually decides to lead by example and embraces his powers again, but remains extremely careful about using them (this also fulfills dean’s arc of having to let go of the holy-innocent-pure-ideal-not a person but an idealized version of sam-little brother sam he has put on a pedestal for so long)

bobby is viewed as a father figure by sam and dean but bobby makes it clear he doesn’t want that burden or relationship in his life after his wife died. he makes this clear to them too, but sam and dean have fucked up perceptions of parental figures so they don’t think bobby means it (they just latch on to whatever parental figures they can find)

we see more of sam’s relationship with the side characters; sam and jo hunt together on occasion, he hangs out with ash and talks hacking when visiting the roadhouse. he and ellen loves playing poker together. if anything, dean is the one who’s isolated - he only ever really cared about mary, john, sam and cassie, and never really had any friends. sam is way more well adjusted and sociable after spending time at stanford where he’s had conversations that didn’t only revolve around dead bodies and lore. 

this could also feed into dean’s extreme abandonment issues and isolation he feels and how this would affect his psyche

sam and dean are both unknowingly prepared to become the perfect vessels; sam loses his humanity by becoming more and more like lucifer (defying his father and his will) while dean becomes prepared by doing what michael did; casting his brother away in his time of need (blindly following his father and his will). very much like in s4 but even more intense and brutal (i love angst :))

we see different hybrids; demon/human (antichrist), human/(arch)angel (nephilim) and demon/angel (???), but none of them are all powerful bc narratively that’s really boring. they’re strong but have very specific powers that affects them and/or their surroundings in catastrophic ways (but no other worlds bs, we stick to the road trip aesthetic, keep it grounded). i want the only all powerful character to be god but he doesn’t show up at all, he’s the ultimate absent father. is it chuck? we never find out!

powers would for example include giving people diseases, force anyone close to them to tell the truth (not consciously, it’s just the air around them), read minds, create storms, light things on fire when they’re angry, make people hallucinate etc. like fucked up shit but not things that are too grande because again - that’s really boring

abbadon, the princes of hell and the four horsemen are more fleshed out villains instead of the one season reign the each had. 

being a prince of hell is a title that is inherited - after azazel dies, sam gets the title because he is the one with azazel’s blood in him OR meg does, but idk if that would be as interesting (if she actually was his daughter)

it remains a horror show throughout, lots of gore and blood

the moral code and ethics of the brothers are the opposite of the beginning; dean thinks in black and white, sam sees shades of grey and individuals instead of what they are. however, as the show progresses, their train of thought becomes opposites; dean becomes more open to how people are true evil and how monsters are often victims of their circumstance while sam becomes harsher and less forgiving after ruby’s betrayal along with finding out the truth of his existence and how there’s been demons around his entire life. eventually they’re on the same page and they see the circumstances. 

on the other hand; i also really fuck with the idea of dean maintaining his black and white morals on that all monsters=inherently evil, humans=inherently pure and good, but he is the only human on team free will. sam is half demon, castiel is an angel, jack is a nephilim, rowena is a witch, garth is a werewolf, mary is a zombie etc

demons become demons in hell by agreeing to become the torturer and thus giving up their humanity to be free of pain, does that mean they could become humans again by regaining some humanity? by doing good deeds? (potentially this is confirmed with jessica and how she came to love sam; genuine love and care for a human could reverse the demon process?) this also means dean was a demon in hell but was purified/turned back again when castiel raised him. this also plays into dean becoming like michael; in trying to absolve himself from what he did in hell he becomes ruthless, unforgiving and righteous to evil, much like the angels, regardless of his personal connection to a person and what he would consider “evil”

dean and pacifisim: after dean is cured from being a demon/the mark of cain/is made aware of his blind righteousness that he used as an excuse to kill, he becomes firmly determined to reign in his anger and violent tendencies by becoming a pacifist (like sam in s11) as a way to redeem all the blood he’s spilled. of course in his profession and true dean fashion he won’t be able to do it 100% so he decides to only act in self defense, and he only goes batshit violent on the offense when it’s about protecting sam

OR. dean’s self righteousness becomes his own downfall; the belief that all evil must be eradicated, refusal to see the circumstances and the shades of grey is what pushes him to lose his humanity and become a demon and therefore, in a potential ending the ruler of hell, because i think it would such an interesting journey from a to b, that dean starts out human, revels in his holiness, executes and kills in the name of his own holiness in the belief that he’s becoming the ultimate angel, the ultimate hero when it’s doing the opposite. if this happened then sam would take the opposite route; starts as a human, becomes more and more demonic, stops himself and returns to his hopeful and optimistic self, has faith and humility and that is what makes him ascend from abomination to purified and holy (trials). 

this could be a perfect 10 season structure as well: s1-5 are when sam and dean start off humans; dean becomes holy and as close to an angel a human can be, while sam drinks the demon blood and almost becomes one to gain the freedom and power he wants, but begins to turn it around to send lucifer back to hell. s6-10 is when dean becomes the unholy and sam becomes the holy even though neither realize because now there’s no grand master plan - this is who they are, who they choose themselves. don’t know how this ould end though; either as normal humans again (but there wouldn’t really be a ”normal” after everything) or they really go off the rails with sam like ruling heaven (not as god though, just as a good and just man) and dean ruling hell. castiel is human and stays on earth with jack.

the gothic americana aesthetic is kept throughout the entire show and is only shot on film

after s5 castiel returns to heaven to help restore order, and he takes charge for a little while, but eventually returns to earth after trying to introduce democracy to angels who didn’t get it. in his place, anna takes over and she rules heaven well (after trying to kill mary when going back in time she isn’t killed by michael, but narrowly escapes and remains in hiding to heal until castiel reaches out and finds her)

when finding out they are The Vessels and will be brought back regardless of what they try, sam and dean explore what this means more. dean throws himself into dangers and to protect others. he is burned, blown up, stabbed, electrocuted, beheaded and eaten, but wakes up the next morning in his bed without a scratch, without any pain and memories of his deaths. he revels in this untouchability. sam kills himself over and over only to be resurrected again and again by lucifer. he remembers the pain and blood.

that being said, while dean is like angel royalty, sam is demon royalty. the demons don’t go after him, they don’t hurt him. some even offer up themselves to be drained of blood, even after lilith’s death. it makes it really difficult to stay clean but he pulls through with dean and castiel actually supporting him. to help sam get through his addiction, dean stops drinking alcohol and they go through their withdrawal together

the angels almost worship dean as the michael sword and have an open disgust towards sam for being lucifer’s vessel - they always answer dean’s prayers and calls for help, they follow his orders if need be and don’t hesitate to heal him if he needs it. sam could pray until his vocal chords bleed or call out for help while holding his guts in his hands; none of the angels would come to his aid. the only one who answers sam’s prayers is lucifer as a voice in sam’s head or a hallucination. sam could call demons to help him out but he refuses

sam isn’t the first hunter to drink demon blood, to try to enhance his own abilities using the supernatural as a means to get there - there are hunters who have altered themselves with parts from werewolves and vampires to become better hunters, like the styne family (the guys from s10), blurring the lines again of what’s good and human vs what is evil and inhumane

if angels can’t find a vessel to volunteer, they will force them to say yes - the how is not important, only that the ‘yes’ is said, whether its meant or not, any verbal yes will do. the angels never sleep and they never eat, which is disturbing to sam and dean who are exhausted all the time and eat scraps whenever they can

castiel, like all other angels, is taught to despise and not care about sam winchester at all, but the more castiel gets to know sam, he becomes fascinated with him, how lucifer’s ultimate vessel, starter of the apocalypse and destroyer of god’s creation can be so kind and gentle, so full of faith, acceptance, optimism and hope. in dean castiel sees a good man, yes, but also a man who’s bloodthirsty, rages, revels in war, resorts all problems with violence, loves conditionally and expects unquestioned loyalty. sam too, has a darkness and bloodthirst in him, but it only comes out in glimpses. castiel thinks it’s funny, how sam turns out to be the opposite of lucifer while dean is so alike michael

[mittensmorgul]

So @shixpe and I have been chatting for like the last hour... (edited a bit so that it makes sense...)

but back to 13.03, i found Sam's expression to Dean's outburst about Cas very telling not just in a "feel bad" way but more that he knows or is realizing how Dean is actually taking the loss of Cas

mittensmorgul we can certainly hope\ Sam has Just Not Got It yet up to this point, I mean

shixpe we go striaght from talking about Sam's past and comparing him to Jack etc to how Dean cant get over losing Cas because of Jack.

mittensmorgul Yep. Sam had been thinking of Jack in terms of HIMSELF (and his whole demon blood arc), and not getting why Dean couldn't feel that way about him too... but Dean's been seeing Jack in terms of AZAZEL (the yellow-eyed demon responsible for murdering his loved one) I mean... Sam wasn't gonna adopt Azazel back in early seasons and just ~forgive him~ for both Jess's death and Mary's death, and try to see how he deserved to be saved... Yet that's what he's expecting Dean to do now... (obviously Jack is not equivalent to azazel and he's a nougaty bab who needs support and training, but his POWER had the same result regardless of his intent) And Dean WILL come to see that, but in order for Sam to understand, that's literally the framing the show gave to Jack's yellow-eyed powers here...

shixpe but also even though Azazel killed mary and (more relevant) Jess, Sam blamed himself.  Dean told him it wasnt his fault, but he will blame Jack for Cas' death

mittensmorgul yep

shixpe because emotions

mittensmorgul Sam blamed himself because he never told the truth to Jess, never warned her about his dreams, never told her ANYTHING.

shixpe even though that would obviously have done nothing tbh except maybe she'd have left him

mittensmorgul And now Dean's blaming himself for not being able to get through to Cas, for not doing ~something~ to stop him...

shixpe if she stayed, Azazel would get her

mittensmorgul Heck, even if she LEFT he might've still gone after her, because she had to die for Sam's Man Pain.

shixpe i have a thought that Dean is using Jack to not blame himself

mittensmorgul yep Jack is convenient.

shixpe i always assumed Azazel killed her to make Sam hunt again.  but yeah i guess he woulda still stayed at school jacks the scapegoat i feel like thats important somehow Lucifer is the biggest scapegoat of all time "The devil made me do it"

mittensmorgul But also, he's not wrong... Jack's power ~did something~ to Cas, showed him a vision convincing enough for Cas to believe in it, to make him abandon his family he'd been willing to sacrifice everything for, to abandon everything he'd believed about nephilim in general and Lucifer's offspring in particular, to make sure that power was able to be born... But yes, Jess was killed to get Sam out of the civilian life and prompt him to seek revenge again... Brady said so in s5

shixpe i have my own theory still about what happened between Cas and Jack

mittensmorgul yeah ?

shixpe made me even more sure about it when Asmo blatantly asked Sam if Jack had Bonded with Luci i think the touchy yellow eyes thing with Cas in 12.19 was that bond

mittensmorgul You think he's legit formed some sort of "duckling bond" on Cas I think so too AGAINST CASTIEL'S WILL

shixpe yeah i think it did, in a way but not consciously (just like Jacks powers), control Cas

mittensmorgul And I think that bond is gonna be a sort of tug-of-war with Dean and Cas's "more profound bond" YEah, that's exactly what I've been saying since 12.19

shixpe it made Cas see Jack as his fucking responsibility to protect and raise like his own fuckin child yeah it became more evident to me in the finale because its the only real explanation i accept for why Cas ran back into that portal, the bond made him go after what he saw was a threat to Jack

mittensmorgul It's not intentional. Jack Nougat Winchester didn't force Cas to be his father... the "power that acts without his consent or control" which Jack doesn't even feel is truly "part of himself" and acts wildly and erratically in moments of extreme fear and self-defense... THAT is what formed the bond. YES. EXACTLY. THANK YOU

shixpe also its another forced bond (maybe you could kinda relate it to the bond between parent and child, its quite often there whether you want it or not)

mittensmorgul After 12.19, Cas became a sort of "extension" of Jack's power, but a part of that power with the wisdom and strength of an ancient angel...

shixpe i think its rare for a parent to not be willing to sacrifice themselves for their child which happened twice blatantly in the finale it was so goddamn obvious

mittensmorgul who had no ability to override that power YEP

shixpe yeah

[...]

shixpe but dont forget also the moment Cas went after Luci was when Jack was being born and Kelly died

mittensmorgul yep

shixpe oh and i forgot to add to the forced bond thing its similar to Amara's forced bond but now its with CAS like SERIOUSLY

shixpe Amara/Dean was compared to sibling bonds, at the end of s11 "You're our brother Cas", now its a parent/child bond

mittensmorgul YEP.

Note: Before this whole chunk of conversation, we’d been discussing how Sam’s approach to “training Jack’s powers” was similar both to John’s “marine corps discipline” approach to raising Sam and Dean “like soldiers.” It’s literally how Sam described their upbringing in the pilot episode. And he seems to have the whole drill sergeant thing down in how he’s approaching Jack’s powers.

The other noteworthy parallel we talked about was between how Sam was “spying” on Jack while reading a child psychology and parenting book-- just like Crowley was doing back in s11 with young Amara. Which loops right back around to Jack being used as a mirror/parallel to Amara in practically every respect.

As to playing Cas’s “bond” with Jack against his long-standing “more profound bond” with Dean... that element of compulsion had never been an aspect of Dean’s bond with Cas. The bond may have been forged with the intent of “marking Dean” for service to Heaven in his role as the Righteous Man in the Apocalypse, but even after he rejected that role, he continued to forge his bond with Cas BY THEIR OWN CHOICES. And that makes all the difference here, and I believe will be KEY to not only Jack’s eventual downfall and salvation, but the key to Jack’s eventual understanding or free will and humanity.

The ENTIRE POINT of this storyline is moot if Jack and Cas were complicit in consciously choosing this bond in the first place.

Okay, as you were. :P

[floralmotif]

Tighter threads (s12 finale thoughts)

Well, that happened.

I’m writing this without checking anyone else’s direct thoughts, so someone may have already touched on this but I want to get this out before I forget too much.

First off, I didn’t hate them. I especially liked 12.22(with the exception of one thing). It was very tightly written, in so, so many ways. 12.23 was good(mostly), but it felt more standard. Either way, they pretty much used their last token, and decided to make their narrative so tight, we are currently inside Jupiter.

Spoilers below.

Don’t you just love cliffhangers? No? Huh.. the show seems to think we do. Well, good news everyone! Cliffhangers are so prevalent that unless the show did the narrative equivalent of a lobotomy, the outcome should be pretty easy to read. 

And we’re gonna use 12.22 to do it... and a specific type of narrative parallel.

Ok, so the show has established Mary and Cas as narrative mirrors, and 12.22 and 12.23 basically tightened that spiral into a grinding, ear splitting whine. I had a feeling they would do that. I was hoping they wouldn’t cliff hanger it, but eh, can’t say I’m surprised. Good job SPN, you did the one thing that lets you get away with halting the narrative for a little longer. *slow clap*

Alright, let’s start with the set up of 12.22. For this entire season, Cas and Mary have had parallel narratives. Dean, Mary and Sam have had parallels with each other throughout the season and series in general, but the parallel A-Plot for the season seemed to be Mary = Cas(we’ll get to the other two as well). Mary is basically running her own version of s4 and 5(complete with Luci and apocalypse). Cas and Mary both run towards what’s comfortable for them and run away from real confrontation: Dean and Sam. They run towards the past and how it was, because the future is scary and uncertain and facing forward is hard when their pasts are so messy. Also Cas is just really old and breaking him of what he’s used to is understandably difficult. 

In 12.22, the level of parallel comes to a head and spirals down and tightens into what I’m gonna call an Analog Narrative... I don’t remember its actual name, but using the definitions for analog: 

relating to or using signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity such as spatial position or voltage.

and: a person or thing seen as comparable to another.

I’m gonna go with that for now. It’s basically a tighter form of metaphor for our purposes, a sort of entanglement if you will. It roughly translates to “I am you.” and it allows elements that apply to one, to apply to the other without direct contact. Like a signal from one that is unseen, manifesting in the physical space of the other... like the conversation between Dean and Mary in 12.22. Many of you have probably seen this pop up in movies, many of you may have even seen it in the ep and in the series overall. It’s like the narrative parallel SPN generally uses, just a much tighter form. It’s been used a few other times in the series before. S11 used it a decent amount. I’m just gonna focus on it and give it a name to make it easier to talk about and to differentiate it from your standard parallel like what Dean and Mary are, and Cas and John.

In a standard parallel, one does what the other one does in some form of another, usually in some sort of tandem. In an “analog narrative” what happens to one, is related to the other without us seeing the other directly. Their signals are entangled. So like... a character saying or acting a certain way, means the other character also feels that way/does that thing even if not on screen. When this type of parallel is present, it often takes the form of Crowley reflecting various people. Usually Dean or Cas nowadays. His death may actually mean we’ll start to see more actual words exchanged between characters instead of them being filtered through him.(I will miss him though. He was neat.)

See Guardians of the Galaxy v2 if you want a recent, noticeable example that directly states what it is.

Both Cas and Mary had elements of mind control. The level of mind control with Mary is of the more direct sort, and “going in” is a very “filmed media” way to resolve it. It also allows for Mary to help with Kelly and for them to drag direct information out longer.

Like Cas, Mary had chose to follow “paradise”, a place without want, or suffering, or fear, etc. She had chose to stay away and to attempt to continue her perfect life where it was comfortable. She felt so much guilt for everything, that she ran away from Dean and Sam, just like Cas did. They both wanted to make up for their respective deals. Cas, under the nephilim’s influence chose that too instead of saw it for a lie. Never trust anything in a network tv show that lists a world free of want, fear, suffering, etc as attributes. They are pretty much always a trap unless they're an epilogue and there’s sufficient buildup or it’s part of a message. I’m still not convinced the nephilim is evil, I just think it has a very naive idea of what good is and may not function on a level comparable to humans. It’ll show Cas whatever it thinks will work to show him. It’s just lucky Cas was operating under the same logic Mary was and that allowing in “paradise” would absolve him of control, and by extension, guilt. 

Nope, can’t silence the lambs that easily. Just cause you can’t hear them, doesn’t mean they aren’t calling out.

“Right Mary?” I say as Dean calls out to her.

Mary’s paradise is kind of interesting. She’s basically got that scene in Dark of the Moon as her chosen paradise. Makes me wonder if Ketch has one, but anyway, in it are Sam and Dean in a simpler form. One where they don’t want or need or suffer, one where they are just children and don’t have true ambitions and can’t present a true instigated challenge. Cas’ idea of paradise would absolve him of want, of fear, of facing his feelings and the repercussions they may give.

This is the prison of their minds, peace over freedom. Even though Dean has the same fears about himself as Cas does, he pushes through and tries to talk to Mary. Eventually, while she doesn’t answer him, we get some highlights:

Mary: I only want good things for you Dean. I’ll never let anything bad happen to you.

Dean: I hate you.

Dean: I was a kid, you promised you’d keep me safe... and then you make a deal with Azazel.

Dean: You wanna know what that was like? They killed the girl that he loved, he got possessed by Lucifer, he lost his soul.... All because of you.

All of it was because of you.

Please note that Dean doesn’t mention the things that specifically happened to him.. but you know.. Dean.

Dean: I hate you. I hate you... and I love you... because I, I can’t help it. You’re my mom... and I understand.. and I have made deals to save the ones I love.. more than once. I forgive you. I forgive you.. for all of it... everything.

Dean: On the other side of this, we can start over. I need you to look at me, I need you to see me. 

Now, not all of this will apply or be exact, because Mary is still her own person with her own issues and stuff that she specifically did. Parallels aren’t usually exact. That’s too obvious and filmed works are a game of Dixit. Also, most of the transgressions they refer to are in the far past, so chances are, the parallel is addressing some further back issues as well...

So.. roughly translated to Analog speak... 

Dean: I hate you.

Dean: I needed you, and you promised you would keep me safe, and then you made a deal and left us alone. Do you know what that was like?

(I’m not sure which exact parallels they’re going for here with the listing, but I’m going with Cas breaking Sam’s wall and Cas raising Sam from hell without his soul. The only one I’m not sure about is the death of the girl he loved. Eileen maybe? Since he wasn’t present to help prevent the deaths of people with them. That one’s harder and maybe it kills the whole parallel but I doubt it. The intent may not be exact since Dean still hasn’t really had this conversation with Cas. It may be like “insert appropriate transgressions here”. *shrugs* The rest of the ep supports the parallel, so I’m going with this for now. Broad strokes are a thing)

I hate you. I hate you... and I love you... because I, I can’t help it. You’re Cas... and I understand.. and I have made deals to save the ones I love.. more than once. I forgive you. I forgive you.. for all of it... everything.

Dean: On the other side of this, we can start over. I need you to look at me, I need you to see me.

So there it is(probably). That’s why Dean didn’t say “I love you” back. He doesn’t know how to deal with his feelings. Cas’ actions have made him upset just like Mary’s have. He still loves her even after everything, and he still loves Cas, but he doesn’t know what to do about everything else. Mary and Cas both kept ditching and tricking him. Him being upset and confused makes sense.

After Ketch is killed and Mary and Dean start talking again. She says she does want to start over, she does want to make things better and she explains why she’s been running off and working with the BMoLs and everything. Cas sort of almost did this in 12.19, but not entirely. They’ve both been running away to make up for their transgressions at the expense of the people they love, as they have both been unable to forgive themselves. Yay for Mary and the writers for giving Dean an example of using his words and taking responsibility that ends in a direct good outcome. Enforced narrative for the win. Sam got one in the ep as well with leading the hunters against the BMoLs. It made me happy.

Ok, now that Mary and Cas are almost completely entangled, let’s take them to the finale.

The nephilim opens a tear in reality because reasons and we get to see an apocalypse where Bobby is weirdly still alive. I took it though, because I like Bobby. Oh yay, it’s the end of Mary’s s5... and guess where she ends up.. Mary carries the old ways remember? And where did the old ways get Sam in s5?

We get a big bunch of buildup with Mary taking Cas’ place soothing Kelly, me being really uncomfortable by Kelly's lines, Sam, Cas and Dean failing to kill Luci, Crowley going all heroic sacrifice and taking just long enough for Cas to get in.

Then we have the ending with Cas apparently dead, Dean staring up into the sky for help like Mary did with John and Mary getting pulled into the “cage” with Lucifer, just like Sam did in s5. Mary is paralleled with everyone this season, but especially Cas. Because this is the finale, all of those parallels have to merge in some way. Sam followed Mary into the BMoLs because he wanted to go the easy way and not lead, or have to deal with responsibility, Dean follows Mary in that he basically was Sam’s mother and he also carries her fears of the future and self doubt, Cas is the themes of the show and carries the potential for a better way. His arc this season basically fits into hers. This season enforces that agency and responsibility are essential.

We can pretty much infer than in some way or another Cas will be ok. Cas’ life is uncertain and so is Mary’s. Luci’s eyes glow just before the end, we don’t know what her fate was, but she’s almost certainly not dead. Dean also never walks back inside to meet back up with Sam. We end the season with him kneeling in front of Cas’ body. That holds some meaning in tv land and this show likes to start seasons up pretty close to the end of the previous season unless they use a time skip. Please don’t use a timeskip SPN, that is what is called retreading and you don’t want that. Death in media is usually about getting over or accepting, or understanding, or whatevering a death unless it holds some symbolic meaning.. which Cas only holds alive at this point. We already know what Dean grieving Cas looks like. We don’t need it again. No retreads.

Will Michael or God, or Jack come and save both Cas and Mary? Dunno, but next season will likely have something to do with universe hopping(and possibly human!cas) to find Mary... and maybe Cas. I’m hoping they just un-dead Cas right away though, because the alternative is annoying to me, but whatever. As long as OG Cas returns within a reasonable amount of time, I’ll deal.

[elizabethrobertajones]

@goodfemalecharacters you’re making me self-analyse >.> Thanks 

It was just a passing thought after noticing how much I linked that was about what Dean and female characters says about him rather than Dean and dudes posts... Of course then I went to dinner and had time to reflect on it so now *I’m* curious :P

I suppose if you were going to decide consciously do this, it would be because it’s so easy to frame all the Dean is bi meta as “Dean once got a boner looking at Cas and has a crush on Doctor Sexy” which is all fine but basically boils down to using the same pile of gifs to throw back at anyone who disagrees, old school gif war style but not for fun. And we have our refutations about their “Dean is straight” gifs so I’m sure they have refutations they spell out about the boner and that thing where Dean freaked Aaron out when he decided why not while being hit on to make him go away and leave Aaron the heck alone...

I mean there’s nothing WRONG with that but it all relies on the “this is what we see Dean doing around dudes” stuff

And then there’s the narrative stuff e.g. paralleling Dean’s crush on Gunnar (which was a mirror anyway to his crush on Dr Sexy) to Sam’s crush on the announcer lady. I like stuff like that a lot because it’s all pretty solid and a lot of Destiel meta comes under that with the parallels and themes and tropes, and also other stuff like the Benny x Dean vs Sam x Amelia set ups and so on. (And Charlie lampshading it and asking if Dean broke up too) and that’s all really solid meta that I love and I think we can build on to say Dean is definitely portrayed as having romantic or sexual interest or his relationships mirroring romantic/sexual relationships (idk where “poster on bedroom wall” or “watches his soap on TV” comes into this :P) but it is all still putting together narrative and symbolic stuff to prove that Dean’s portrayed by the narrative as being interested in men or at least suggesting romantic potential (I don’t think things with Benny ever WERE as much as the parallels suggested but that doesn’t mean they weren’t telling us some truth anyway. Like they’re each other’s one that got away or something). That’s the kind of meta I would build a house with :D

If you go one step more abstract (aka dangerous overthinking territory but I live out here :P) and discuss well if Dean likes men too, and this is a defining part of his character, how does this affect this that and the other about him, so you get performing!Dean meta which includes the fact he’s bi as one of the underlying things he’s covering over (the Dean vs cake thing was especially fun but even with wink winks from one of the writers, I wouldn’t call it easy to explain or prove because I’m still baffled at the wilful ignorance towards “vegetable water makes you gay” meta (I’m sorry, it’s so funny I can’t stop calling it that :P)). Uh, and other serious character stuff about his relationship with John or Samuel Campbell as the disapproving father figures, or Bobby as the supportive one. (There’s a lot of Bobby Knows meta floating around on my dash right now :P) And other stuff about how it affects him at a core level if he’s been raised in the macho hunter environment and so on. 

One of the siren/gay panic metas I wrote was about how horrifying it would be the siren might have got to him because he was bi and not on the guard for male attraction, which is how it got to him (and that moment of horror between the flask reveal and the siren smoothing it over and making it about brothers but DEAN wasn’t to know he was about to say that EITHER) and Crowley doing the exact same frickin’ thing to him in season 9 when he was already in a self-loathing pit of despair. Which all seems to come from canon for me but idk how reach-y it looks from the outside to construct that argument as it relies on some pretty abstract connections and empty spaces.

Anyway trying to discuss how this all fits with Dean and female characters he’s canonically been actually interested in romantically/sexually takes us all the way back to the gif wars and like, refuting the ridiculousness of showing him kissing a woman as proof he’s straight like, duh of course he makes out with women, he’s BI as in you’re all in danger... I think we don’t talk about the female love interests/Dean’s interest in women much because it gets all psychoanalyse-y (it comes up a lot with comparisons like Carmen and Ann-Marie and Lisa to Mary, for example (side note: always here to pull receipts on Sam doing the same so it’s a Thing on the show not just a Dean thing)) or the idea of because he’s bi women are safe so hooking up is a kneejerk reaction (don’t disagree, but it’s often the end of the discussion when it’s brought up like that to explain his hooking up behaviour) 

And idk, the Lisa post came about because I saw a lot of discussion about Lisa comparing her to the “Amelia is a figment of Sam’s imagination” theory and she has the El Sol djinn dream connection, but I do also believe Dean loved her and the weirdness of it has a ton of sexist bad writing in the end of season 5 (season 5ausagefest, honestly >.> Name me a female character who isn’t randomly in 1-2 episodes then dies or disappears completely from the narrative and then start listing 4 archangels, 4 horsemen and TFW + Bobby and Crowley :P) and Gamble did a salvage job on her in season 6 but too late to fix all the weirdness of Dean showing up on her door out of the blue, while also knowing Dean can’t stay with Lisa because of the formula of the show >.> So I took the chance to explore it a bit deeper and compare to 2x20 and why Dean might be struggling with self-acceptance and how Lisa is easier, and tracing their relationship back to season 3 and Gamble’s work to suggest Dean thought she was endgame but even by the end of season 3, it was seeming clear she wasn’t, but there’s an *explanation* already there in the text of why when Dean “imagines himself happy” it’s with her.

I also don’t see the female love interests as no homos or whatever, just part of the complex tapestry of Dean. Carmen in 12x18 is from the same writer as Gunnar Lawless in 11x15. I don’t think it all magically goes away when they write Dean hooking up. And there’s maybe some wariness to drag some characters into it because touchy fandom, and some because we already KNOW he likes women so does writing about Dean & Lisa actually tell us anything new, when the meta format in this debate is normally about proving with positive examples of Dean x dudes and using evidence that’s easy to argue for bisexuality, so delving into the heterosexual encounters seems redundant.

But I don’t know! I never planned to do this, I just wrote about what interested me, and then I suddenly had a realisation the pics I put in that post were ALL Dean and blonde women which made me laugh because even though I dragged in Cas and Gadreel and Crowley at least, the actual subtext was ALL about the women as the narrative device to link it all together through various homoerotic moments, and then I realised all the meta I linked was discussing Dean and how various heterosexual encounters shaped or showed his inner landscape. I guess I’m just interested because Dean and his sexuality is all over the place so it’s a rich topic and it shows in ways other than flirting with dudes. 

I remembered writing this that I was obsessed for a while when my long meta rewatch hit season 4, with Anna as a proxy the show used so Dean could hook up with Cas. And they used the handprint moment in the car sex scene to PUT Cas into that scene. Dean was having sex with the symbolic representation of angels and Cas is that angel on the customer service desk who represents Heaven to him, and it’s his mark on Dean’s arm. And Sam hooked up with Ruby, the symbolic representation of Hell, and he drank her blood even though it was Azazel’s that went in his mouth first but no one makes it nearly as weird as that ridiculously romantic/erotic shot of Anna putting her hand over the handprint and making the *entire* scene about Cas...

Hrm. 

I mean I feel sort of bad using these characters as props for the meta, but the show uses them as props - Wendy in 1x03 is literally there as T&A and Dean gets a boner over her which the camera jokes about, and that’s her role over. Lisa is an emotional pit stop, Carmen wasn’t real, Anna was the most realised character but she still seemed, narratively, there to balance out Sam x Ruby and how Dean x Cas was the obvious opposing force in the narrative, but AFTER that she got to be an interesting character in Cas’s vicinity. (I mean I guess she was a “No homo” but she had plot and character stuff going for her from the start, it’s just her role in 4x09 and 4x10 was SO different from later, and she was originally only going to be there 2 episodes)... 

But yeah I only just realised this so I have no idea wtf I’m doing and I don’t think this is an a critique of how we write meta per say because I have written miles of the easier stuff about Dean and dudes as well, and I don’t feel wildly feminist for these metas, due to the fact I’m using T&A or prop-for-the-manpain characters as exactly that instead of exploring them for themselves rather than what they do for Dean :P

[awed-frog]

hey! i wanted to let you know that i think your cas/stages of grief meta was absolutely amazing. cas's story never really made sense to me, it always seemed so inconsistent, like they had no idea where they were going with it, and your meta is the first i've read that made me see some central theme in it after all. so kudos for that :) just out of curiosity, you have any idea where they're going with crowley? bc his story is another one that always felt the opposite of straightforward to me.

Whats your hope for Crowleys arc on this season?

Hi! Thank you so much for all that! I am the most awful person, because not only I’m like, two months late in answering this but I’m also going to bundle it up with an anon ask. Sorry, @andallthewildthingsroared!

(I did write the overly long thing I promised you, though, so there’s that.)

I understand where you’re coming from - Crowley’s arc is sort of zigzaggy, but if you take away what was clearly bad characterization (such as that one-off threat to Sam complete with red eyes which never went anywhere), I sort of feel like we can know who Crowley is, and what he wants.

Background

So, just as a summary - we know he was a bastard, and that he had a stable enough relationship with his mother that he remembers her (not fondly), and that she up and left soon enough that it felt like she was abandoning him (eight is a bit soon to fend for yourself, even in the seventeenth century). We know he had a son, and since Gavin’s mother is never mentioned, I want to say unremarkable entity who died in childbirth? Because if this had been his great love, and if she’d survived long enough to be remembered by Gavin, I hope to God that would have been brought up in the narrative (come on). So, either Crowley didn’t give a damn about her, and got saddled with the kid for some reason, or he cared a lot and she died pretty early on and that’s possibly the reason he started being so awful to everybody (hello, John Winchester’s parallels). We also know he was a tailor, which, in those times, and for an orphan, implies either that Rowena used magic to help him out (unlikely for a number of reasons) or that he was actually a very smart, very talented kid who had to work his ass off during his apprenticeship, as was usual for the times. In this case, we’ve got someone whose life was out of his control from a very young age, and who knows what it’s like to be at a master’s whim. 

Demon deal

Now, what doesn’t fit with this picture is the idea a kid like that would sell his soul for a longer dick, as Crowley boasted to have done (also, as amusing as it is, this would be a moot point by now, since Crowley’s in a different body). What I consider more likely is that Crowley’s current vessel - the literary agent in his late forties possibly all work and all play as that job often entails - tried to make a similar deal (and that would be a reason for Crowley to stick with the body afterwards; after all, we know he’s vain and likes to sleep around, so, vessel for vessel, why not go for a bigger dong?); as for Crowley himself, I really can’t guess what happened. Gavin remembers him as a useless drunkard, and he certainly had no riches to pass on - so much so, Gavin was forced to emigrate to the Colonies. What did Crowley gain, exactly, in exchange for his soul? An intriguing possibility is that, like Dean, he took the deal to save someone else - perhaps Gavin himself from some childhood fever - and became a drunk asshole out of blind panic the closer he got to the deadline. I like this explanation, because there was always this weird pull between Crowley and Dean, and this would go a long way towards explaining it; but, really, this is one of those things it’s useless to speculate about - either the show will tell us, or it won’t.

(Another possibility I like, but which would have come up by now, is that Rowena sold her kid’s soul to pay for her own magic - a plot bunny I explored here.)

Whatever his reasons, Crowley’s time in hell took this primal lack of control over his own life and made it a thousand times worse. We still don’t know, exactly, how demons are created, how long it takes, and who decides which eyes you’ll get, and which job you’ll do. This is, like, one of the 2000 things the show could get into instead of inventing new lore (I’m not complaining, though - S11 was magnificent, and S12 has been very good so far). What we do know is that the entire process is excruciatingly painful; that it distorts, or takes away, your human soul. If we think about other soulless creatures we’ve encountered, what Crowley is makes a lot of sense. It’s not about being evil, exactly; it’s more about a lack of caring and empathy. There are moments where Crowley actually reminds me of soulless!Sam - like when he pushed Dean into Cain’s arms just because it was convenient on the short term. 

Crowley the crossroads demon

Becoming a demon is also the worst kind of punishment, we should assume, because it completely takes away your free will.

(This is not exactly true, since we’ve seen a lot of demons doing stuff on the side and betraying their masters left, right and centre - but I want to think those demons breaking ranks parallel the mess that’s going on in Heaven - that these are creatures that, under normal circumstances, ie, pre-Winchesters and pre-Apocalypse, functioned as mindless servants under a king. Like angels, demons can, theoretically, think for themselves, but I feel like they’re not designed to? Although, where the angels craved order - and orders - Crowley was hoping to get support by promising other demons ‘a say, a virgin and all the entrails they can eat’ - which means demons are perhaps not as happy as angels to give up their agency. And, well, it would make sense: they do not belong to a different species, after all. They used to be human.)

And so we’ve got the transformation from human!Crowley, indentured to some abusive master as a boy, to demon!Crowley, who’s got no choice but to follow his torturers around. Except, well, Crowley’s smart (too smart for his own good, probably) and ballsy and free will is something he cares about, very fucking much (and this is another tie to Dean). From what we know, it looks like Crowley schemed and schmoozed his way into acquiring enough weapons, knowledge, powers and secrets that he was almost part of the inner circle which was preparing for Lucifer’s return. And here is where his story gets interesting, because, to get Roman about it, “We rob the world, but he will rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, Lucifer will be rapacious; if he be poor, Lucifer will lust for dominion; he will make a desert and call it peace.”

Crowley and the Winchesters

I don’t remember if it’s ever explained why Crowley chose to bet on the Winchesters, of all people, to go against Lucifer. I think we’re meant to not question this - to assume that they’re our main characters and fierce hunters and yadda yadda, but it’s still interesting that Crowley would know them - and well, at that. I like to think they’d been on his radar from the very beginning (or, at least, that Sam was) because of Azazel’s demented scheme, and it’s certainly possible Crowley knew everything about their dealings with Hell, including Sam’s death, Dean’s self-sacrifice, and how and why he was saved. He’s been shown, after all, to be one of the most knowledgeable characters on the board, and if he’s been keeping track of the Winchesters for years and years, that would go a long way in explaining his fond exasperation for their antics. 

Now, Crowley is, of course, fascinating and interesting in himself, but what is also worth noting is that his character, like Cas’ (and perhaps even more than Cas’), is relevant in light of his relation to Dean - and Dean’s sexuality.

The first thing here is - unlike Cas, who, inevitably, had a very strong relationship with Dean from the start which made perfect narrative sense, Crowley could always go either way. It can even be argued that logically, it would have made more sense to pair him off with Sam. First of all, there’s the symmetry (Dean and his angel, Sam and his demon); then there’s the fact Crowley’s got more in common with Sam than he does with Dean - the books, the art, the interest in weird languages and weirder mythology, a general ‘the end justifies the means’ attitude - I know we now have years of backstory to influence how we view those characters, but if we take them in isolation - sure, Dean and Crowley would have fun on a night out (and we’ve seen what they do together: play pool, get drunk, sleep it off with a various number of partners of unspecified gender), but Sam and Crowley - now, that had the potential of a real friendship of the minds (as I said, forget about their history and put aside Crowley’s shady morals for a second - can’t you see how much fun they would have had to explore the Bunker’s library together? how they could have planned thefts, Leverage-style, to recover some painting stolen by an oil magnate - how they would have fought at the end, because, of course, Sam wanted to donate it to a museum and Crowley, well, was planning on keeping it, because he0d bloody well earned it?). Sam becoming friends with a demon after the whole Ruby ordeal would have been a huge bout of character growth, in line with his ‘forgive and don’t judge people by their birth’ personality. And as for Crowley, it would have made sense for him to bond with Sam rather than Dean - if only for the obvious reason: Sam could still be (potentially) his future boss. The boy with the demon blood; the only vessel that can hold Lucifer. Honestly, since Crowley never wanted to be king in the first place, it would have made perfect sense for him to seduce Sam (platonically) and then guide him to the throne - there, problem solved. He would have been chief advisor of The One Who Was Foretold, right there at Sam’s right hand to keep an eye on his every decision, and he would have known, because he would have taken the time to get to know Sam, that Sam (even as a demon king) would be a fair ruler - and, more importantly, a ruler loyal to his old friends.

It was, really, the perfect scheme - and yet the idea never came up at all. In fact, Sam and Crowley lost another momentous occasion to get closer to each other - even after Sam fed Crowley his own blood, the relationship between them remained distant at best, and hostile at worst. That always struck me as really, really weird. Sam saw Crowley at his most vulnerable, and despite being Mr Forgiveness, he continues to hate Crowley with a vengeance and the whole thing never comes up at all. Uh.

I mostly think the main reason for this is very simple: Sam ‘I desperately need my own plotline’ Winchester is straight. Very straight. Pairing him with a man would have been weird. Mirroring the relationship Dean has with Cas - weirder. The thing worked until Ruby was around, but with Crowley they would have missed a lot of juicy subtext. And so, once again and despite all odds, Dean got yet another character to add to his court, and Sam was left with nothing more than Lucifer’s mild interest in him (or, as Sam himself put it in entaglednow’s side-splitting series, “Great, you get the epic love story and I get the creepy sadomasochistic non-con.”).

(This is another reason, by the way, why their refusal to be clearer on the whole ‘Dean is bi’ issue is hurting the show: it is partly, or mostly, because they’re desperate to keep that subtext going that Dean gets all the characters - people like Charlie, or Benny, or even Jody offering him to talk in her most suave mom voice - all of these things make sense in the narrative because they’re feeding the underlying subtext. And since this is, objectively, a Big Story and the core of who Dean is, and Sam’s only stake in it would be a tragic ‘I know I said I’d die for him, but I’ll now reject my gay brother out of moral virtue’ nonsense which clearly doesn’t apply to the character, he’s left with literally nothing to do. Really - most of the story seems to gravitate around these two open secrets - Dean’s sexuality, and Dean’s love for Cas; and since, as I said, Sam’s got nothing to do with either, and no reason to be mad about either, he’s left with no narrative role. Only yesterday @tinkdw was saying how the entire myth arc of S11 doesn’t make any sense without Destiel, and she’s perfectly right; most things, for a lot of time, have been about Dean’s heart.

And I want to add that I’m not okay, or happy, with any of this. First, I think it’s dishonest to include so much subtext that it basically props up your whole narrative while denying anything’s going on; and second, Sam’s a fantastic character and there’s a lot he could do - it defies logic and reason that they’re not using him better. Like, I still can’t believe the entire God reveal was only about Dean, that we still haven’t heard how Sam feels about Lucifer being around, that he’s barely had one conversation with his mother, and that he basically has zero relationships with other characters. Come on - there’s so many awesome things you could do with someone like Sam, why aren’t they doing them? On a show that’s supposedly all about the two of them, and only the two of them?)

Crowley’s arc

By having Crowley’s represent Dean’s eros to Cas’ agape (and I want to say this is a learned reference, but I’m really just thinking about YOI right now), the main mirror for Crowley, and therefore his character arc, was firmly established. Crowley would parallel Cas - and viceversa. The journey, for both of them, is to get closer to humanity (and ‘humanity’), and what’s been fascinating is that, of course, they start off in two very different places.

As I said in the beginning, Crowley’s all about control. He’s very Scarlett O’Hara about things, and he’s got good reason to be. In this, he’s heavily paralleled with Cas, but where Cas focuses his newfound (?) free will on everything but himself - hence the Jesus-like characterization - Crowley’s most consistent character trait is his selfishness. All of his schemes, and most of his ambitions, are ultimately directed at saving himself and avoid pain and death, which, to be honest, would be sensible from anyone’s point of view but is particularly understandable if we consider we’re dealing with a soulless creature who’s got no capacity to love and has endured decades, if not centures, of torture. What is most significant about Crowley, therefore, is the same thing that makes Cas stands out: how Crowley is learning about himself, and how to become who he truly is, through his love for Dean. This is something that we discuss every other day, so I won’t get into it (see for instance the ‘drowley’ tag on my blog, or read here, here or here), but it’s clearly become a major part of his character arc. 

(His decision to sacrifice that spear to save Cas, for instance, was a huge step in this direction - selfishness to selflessness - so huge I still can’t believe I watched it with my own two eyes. It will probably be mirrored, quite soon, by Cas making a step of his own - in his case, towards selfishness, ie, the Winchesters’ happiness, and therefore his own, and away from yet another idiotic heavenly battle plan.) 

As for what will come of it - the problem with this kind of Are you truly my enemy? characters - or, well, the trouble with everything - is that there is a limited number pf ways their story can end. And, again, the problem with Crowley and where his story is going is the same problem we have with everything else - Dean, Sam, Destiel and so on: it all depends on which kind of story this is, and what they’re trying to say with it. So, let’s have a look at it.

A) Crowley could remain his slightly evil self and die because of it - this would place Supernatural in a kind of ‘moralistic’ narrative: the good guys triumph, and the bad guys pay the price.

B) Or, he could try to do the right thing and get killed in the process: that’s the definition of tragedy, which somehow works even better when a character was despicable to start with - think Last of the Mohicans, or Severus Snape. In this case, his death would likely be the first (or the last) of many other significant characters.

C) Another possibility is that Crowley could become human, and that would be both interesting and heartbreaking to watch, because we know Crowley is very ambitious, but, as I said, my headcanon is that he became wary and power-hungry because of what was done to him in Hell. After all, Dean did get a kind of special treatment, but what he went through was also the standard procedure to destroy someone’s soul - so drunken tailor Fergus was probably on the rack for decades, until the last shred of humanity left inside him burned and withered, and it’s likely that at some point he had his O'Hara moment and that’s why he always puts himself first: because he’s bloody scared shitless to be vulnerable again. In this sense, a human Crowley would be resentful and terrified - and therefore, a beautiful character to watch.

(Not that there would be anyone left to watch, since if they go there, I think they’ll do it at the last possible moment.)

D) Or, Crowley could remain a demon but shift his priorities so completely as to work with the Winchesters full-time, sort of like Cas did. Now, this would be quite something because Cas and Crowley are often paralleled, but at the same time it would put Crowley in a difficult position: I am sure Sam and Dean would fully accept him as a member of TFW only if Crowley repented and behaved like an unpstanding citizen from then on, and how is all that compatible with being the king of Hell? Plus, what would happen to the other demons? Was Crowley making more demons when he had complete control of Hell? We know he turned Hell more bureaucratic and 'punishment fits the crime’ and whatever, but his demons were still eating human flesh, and I’m not sure they can even survive without? So, well, however noble Crowley’s intentions, that would be an uneasy alliance. If Crowley remains his lovable and snarky demon self, I see more of an Eric Northman ending for him: sure, he gets his throne and all sort of pretty distractions, but he loses his Sookie forever.

E) And finally: Crowley could be killed in a freak ‘accident’, maybe by an ally of the Winchesters who didn’t know he was sort of a friend (Mary is a prime candidate), or by Cas or Sam because of the greater good, or maybe even by Dean himself - but not by choice - and that would be a sort of fridging because it would shift the meaning of his death to the damage it’d do to his killer.

Which hypothesis is more likely? 

Well: first of all, we need to bear in mind a few RL factors. They’ll probably want to keep Mark around because he’s awesome, the fans generally like him so that’s another plus, and I firmly believe they still don’t know how they want Supernatural to end (or even what the next season’s theme is going to be) so a character like Crowley is a godsend, because when weird shit needs to happen or you suddenly need drama or whatever, you can always count on someone like that to make it happen (and that’s another reason why I don’t think Crowley will become human any time soon: it would severely limit the weird shit they can pull off) - which means, it’s likely they’ll keep him around for a while. And also: his death would bring nothing, narratively, to the table. For instance, John’s death and Bobby’s death sort of made sense, because the boys had some growing up to do, and killing someone like Cain or defeating Lucifer was important because it told us our boys are on the Good side even when it’s difficult, but now we know all this. 

To me - if we’re looking at the very end, there are only two ways this makes sense: either Crowley is killed off, or sacrifices himself, in some heartwrenching scenario so that his death will mean Cas or Dean or even Sam lives, or he becomes human - my headcanon is that he’ll still know how to do magic, because I’m a sucker for magician!Crowley - and walks away from the boys entirely. If Supernatural ends in tragedy, then it’s the first option all the way; but if its end is more like, there are no more monsters and you’re now free to open a car repair shop, then it only makes sense that both Cas and Crowley become human. Cas will be the sort of human who still stares up at the sky from time to time and will lie to Dean when Dean asks and say it’s okay (hopefully, Dean won’t believe a word of it and kiss him extra hard that night), and Crowley - Crowley likes to be the centre of attention, so I’m thinking politics. Or maybe he’ll hoodwink his way to the very top of a renowned auction house and meet some wealthy widow at his local golf club, and that will be it - a sort of happy ending, and the occasional drunk call to Dean to reminisce about that happy, happy summer they once had.

[enemymine2000]

Fandom rambles: Holy Mother Mary

Disclaimer:

Another winding ramble which might not make sense to anyone but me. Sorry, not sorry.

So ramblers, let's go rambling! Halfway through season 12 we finally begin to see Mary Winchester. I mean not the skewed view we inherited by her sons of the wife and mother beloved and missed, drilled into them by John. Holy Mother Mary. Mary Winchester was never holy in the sense that she was somehow holier than thou. Yes, she had wanted to leave hunting behind. But she never quite did, didn't she? Asa Fox' prolonged life and subsequent death is testament to that. Had she done as she said she would to time-traveling Dean in the 1970s, Asa Fox never would have lived beyond his childhood. But she was only making her rounds, right? She already had the picket fence life and no reason to look back. But she was as much unable to let go of her former life as Sam was, when a chance was presented to him.

You all know Sam's issues. Of rebellion against the machine (his father). He had been out, but as we all had to realize, it always had been quite a scam. His so called friends had all been set up by Hell to keep an eye on Azazel's golden boy. Azazel who we now finally know was not only some weird yellow-eyed demon, but a literal Prince of Hell, and Sam was to lead his army. Sam would have never been able to fully leave the life and his years away were all but an illusion.

Once Sam returned, he was unable to go back to the picket fence. No matter how much he sometimes wishes for it, in a pinch he always chooses the family business.

Sam is Mary's parallel. She had wanted out, but never stood a chance. And she knows it to this day. She regrets the choices of the past that led her boys to lead the life she so loathes. But she just can't give it up herself and thus makes even more mistakes. Look at when Mary came back to life. The first days spend in confusion about this world that had changed so much, the boys who now where now men and the legacy that simply never let go. (Never the other way around, it's always one or the other legacy coming back to haunt them.) Mary coped the only way she could by immersing herself in John's journal and followed by her literally walking in his footsteps. Right back into hunting and thus into the hands of the BMOL.

Mary is Sam before Sam had to detox from demon-blood. Before experiencing a state of soullessness. Before having to make the choice between himself and his brother over and over again.

Sam might not be in his own journey where Dean already is – far along the road to self-discovery and thus out of the unhealthy co-dependency – but he is getting there slowly. This season has given us the awed son, coming to terms with a loss, he never was quite allowed to let go. I think we will see him through to the end of that path. And the season finale about “consequences of cosmic proportions” might very well give us a Sam making the choice between the mother he yearned for his whole life, who he was practically taught to worship, and his brother(s). But for once not because of his unhealthy co-dependency, but because it simply is what is right compared to what is easy.

See, the BMOL stand for the easy choice. Same as the American version did before being killed off by Abaddon.

We were told as much when we first learned about them. Men of Letters don't hunt! Hunters are beneath them. They don't dirty themselves with the hard questions and choices hunters have to make every single day. The easy choice: Gank them all! No matter if it's an Alpha Vampire or a newly turned soul. No matter if the vessel still holds an innocent soul together with the demon – don't get me started on the ritual that can change demons into humans again. Crowley's vessel has no other entity in it than Crowley (otherwise the meat-suit would be able to operate whenever Crowley leaves it). The original soul has long died off. In that Crowley truly is Cas' mirror – an angel and a demon in otherwise soulless vessels respectively.

Thus we don't know what would happen with that ritual if there was the original host still in play.

The Men of Letters don't care if you could be saved, they simply won't.

And enter from stage left, Mr. Ketch. He is the BMOL's weapon. Their cleaner. Their Mr. Wolfe. (I got that Tarantino-vibe from him from the beginning. Thanks to 12x12 “Stuck in the Middle (with you)” it has now gone canon.) Who now in turn has got Mary to do his dirty work for him. It's the Colt (and a lot of other weapons) he is after. The BMOL simply don't want to share and their offer to do so with the Winchesters is a simple strategic one. They need the legendary Winchesters to convert the American continent to the same system of dealing with “things” as they have done with the British Isles. (Hear, how they never say the rest of Europe is on board with that!) They and in extension Mary simply don't know how legendary the Winchesters (standing in for the hard choice) truly are.

You see, Mary has been dead, so she is excused. Those are still her little boys, her babies, she wants the world to be a safer place for. She had not yet enough changes to reconcile the past with the present and the simply truth, that she is not needed to protect and shelter them from harm. But she is going down that road – if only because she now saw that even the King of Hell will fight a losing battle and an angel willing to die for them.

The BMOL have not yet realized that their arrogance will cost them.

Yes, Mr. Ketch now has the Colt and they have all those nice little gadgets, but they don't have heart like hunters, especially the Winchesters, do.

The Winchesters' files, as shown in 11x23 and 12x01, are woefully inadequate and probably false in very important, world defining details.

Now they have sent Mary against a demon, who turned out to have yellow-eyes, a detail that simply was not on file. Even if you don't know that yellow eyes equal Prince of freaking Hell (like the Winchesters have not known) you still should have known that that means very bad business. Especially when coming into contact with the Winchesters.

If both files would have been correctly maintained, the BMOL would have known that. But for Mr. Ketch it is still a matter of business as usual and a fake apology.

Well, those never went over well with Winchesters. Or Campbells for that matter. Mary is both and a mother to boot.

Mary Winchester is very much flawed and has just begun to reconcile her vision for her boys with the reality of the battle-hardened, legendary Winchester Brothers. Same as she needs to reconcile her vision of a peaceful future with the reality that there is no black and white, only various shades of gray. That “things” can be humane and “people” are often very much monsters.

It will be her road of reconciliation which will drive Sam's arc of self-discovery to a closure – I hope, for he has been on it for far too long now – while mirroring a lot of it.

At the moment I don't know, how Mary can come out of this season alive. I somehow see a self-sacrifice in the finale. But you know what, I would be okay with that. We know Mary's soul has a place in Heaven no matter what. She had already found her peace and Chuck bringing her back, as nice as it was a gift for Dean, was only the latest of His dick-moves. Honestly just self-service: “Look at me, what a great and loving father I am to all of my creations. Here have a gift bag for your troubles, which ultimately I have caused.” Otherwise someone might have wanted to ask Mary before resurrection for her opinion on that matter.

Dean surely didn't need her back.

Yes, he loves finally having a mom, but he doesn't need a mom anymore. (12x04 “Is it okay, if I still call you Mom?” ... “Great, now I've turned into a thirteen year old girl.” - He is self-aware about the absurdity of wanting a mom, when he doesn't truly need one anymore.) He is as grown-up as he can be at this point. Basically all his insecurities have been resolved when he went to face Amara with the soul-bomb in his chest.

He knew he wanted to live, because he has things and people to live for. But also because he is damn well worth it to live for himself. But he was still able to go to his certain death, for once not to safe his brother and their co-dependency. He went for the world and humankind – Sam just happens to be part of that – and angel-kind – Cas just happens to be part of that – and demon-kind – Crowley just happens to be part of that. He didn't do it for Chuck, for Chuck is an asshole just like John, and Dean has come a long way and can finally acknowledge that his father(s) sucked.

This season the blood contract with Billie was a means to an end and fulfillment part of the deal. He would have offered himself because he simply is at peace now.

There might be neither Heaven nor Hell waiting for a Winchester anymore, but he made peace with that. He lived a life of purpose and it began for all the wrong reasons, but he did a lot of good with the hand he had been dealt. He knew, that he has people that love him, that would mourn him – and he is finally at a place were he accepts it and understands why – but he knew that they would be able to move on eventually for they still had their lives of purpose to fulfill.

Especially Sam, who Dean sees can have that, if he just finally let's go of his past and accepts himself. He sees the bunker as an opportunity for his younger brother not as some sort of hunter life prison/MOL legacy and knows Sam will one day realize it too. Hence, he for once would willingly give his life to fulfill the contract instead of having Sam be the one not because of the old mantra of “safe Sam at all costs”, but because he is at peace and sees that Sam could build a legacy for the brothers by himself.

Sam, as stated above, has not yet come that far on his on road of self-discovery. He still mourns the life that could have been.

A large part of which is Mary. So of course he welcomes the mother, he never had before, in a way unlike Dean. He very much is the son she wants, for he never had been a mother's son before. Only ever the son of his father and charge of his brother.

But he has already started down that road.

He has been tortured by the worst of the worst and now finally he starts to realize that he came out on top despite all of this. Despite the memories of Lucifer torturing him, despite the memories of craving demon-blood, of being more monster than man, when being soulless, he came out on top. He still feels compassion for others.

But he is now also able to start and differentiate between his pathological need for compassion for others (his former way of redeeming himself) and the very reality of never showing compassion towards himself.

Yes, he has done all that. Yes, maybe he is sometimes more monster than man. But even Sam freaking Winchester deserves to be saved.

It only took an angel placing the burden of cosmic consequences upon himself to finally opening his eyes for the possibility of his life not necessarily having to end in his own blood.

Having his mom around, especially in her not-quite-belonging state, will only drive that point home further, for he finally has a person where he can look at and see his own failings mirrored with his eyes open.

Part of that will include him realizing, that as much as he loves the image of his mother, he doesn't necessarily need Mary Winchester to play that role.

And Mary herself? Well, she is thrust into this world she simply does not understand. Everything has advanced so much. Not only technology, but also world views. The world simply is not her place anymore.

If she would have been asked before her resurrection, she might have answered, that yes, she would very much love to be with her boys. But the reality is not Heaven's version for her. Her boys grew up and they don't need a mother. They might need a motherly friend, but they buried their mom a long time ago and the image they grew up has nothing to do with the Mary Winchester that she was even before her resurrection. Which the boys know due to some nifty time-travel, but Mary can't remember.

So Mary turns to hunting. The one thing she swore she hated and wanted to leave behind, even when was not able to really do it even before burning on the ceiling. Hunting occasionally, justified to herself to keep their boys safe, is one thing, but hunting in a post-apocalyptic world, where the Winchester Brothers are stuff of legends is another monster. Mary still justifies it with the mantra of keeping her boys safe, making the world safe for them, without wanting to acknowledge that those very boys saved the world a couple of times now all by themselves and that she, with being so out of touch with the present is more of a liability for them than help.

Mary's road will be to acknowledge that while she still is their mother, she doesn't need to be their mom, but rather a motherly friend. That she needs to look for a way for herself and not for a way to keep doing what she always had done. And maybe going back to her personal place in heaven might be just it for her.

Unwittingly setting her sons up in that death trap with Ramiel and having to see Cas nearly die and being saved by Crowley has started her up on a new path. The belief-system, instilled by Samuel Campbell (another legacy right here) and passed down through John, that people are to be saved, things are to be hunted is being challenged.

The “things” were doing the saving and her sons were willing to die, if only so one of those (better) “things” won't die alone. Because they are all family.

I think, where Mary was until now just humoring Sam and Dean (and only just being willing to do so because, well, ANGEL) is finally starting to understand that family goes beyond blood. It even goes beyond species and past deeds. Everybody can be saved, when the literal King of Hell is willing to lay his life down the line without any gain for himself! (Excursion:

Yes, Crowley stated his best interests for keeping the Winchesters  around at Ramiel. Practically the same things he told Rowena, when she first appeared. But never forget that the Crowley of six years in the past, who made a deal with a Prince of Hell to become King himself, was a very different beast. That spiel about “better having the Winchesters as allies and kill all my enemies than have them kill me” as reasonable as it is, is what a former crossroads demon would say. The King of Hell who has briefly reconnected with his humanity and had a very strong (b)romance with demon and Mark Of Cain Dean is a different matter.

Crowley does not gain personally or for hell in most instances of “assistance for the plaid-covered nuisances” anymore. Not taken into account that literally everybody gains his continued existence when not crossing the Winchesters and well every year or so Apocalypses and end of world scenarios are being successfully averted. Which of course is always a nice bonus for everyone.

No, Crowley likes (loves?) Dean and has come to terms with the fact that his BFF is a package-deal. He likes (loves?) him enough to safe Cas, because Dean without Cas is unthinkable at this point (no matter if you ship them or not, canon now has made that especially clear this season that those two cannot live without each other). Crowley has nothing to gain from having Cas alive, but he does it anyway. Because it is the right thing to do.)

Mary witnesses this for the first time. Yes, Cas ganked Billie to prevent spilled Winchester blood, but Cas is an angel and as anyone not experienced with Supernatural's version of heavenly assholes, Mary is heavily biased towards them. (Remember the little putto -guardian angel - she had placed above Sam's crib?)

But Crowley is the impersonation of all things evil, something she is heavily biased against, and he acts more humanly as she herself was able to in that episode.

Giving up an immeasurable advantage in weaponry and allies to safe someone, while Mary herself, despite everything, still clings to an unreliable ally and the weaponry he offers, even when he is the reason for endangering everybody in the first place.

As I said, it's only the beginning of the road for Mary. The end will probably see her face the choice of giving up false security with the BMOL's promises to safe Cas from the cosmic consequences his act of love will bring upon him, the Winchesters and by extension probably the whole world.

We have seen a lot of mighties fall in this show. The image of The Mother is the next one on the list. While nicely set in contrast to the other mothers (and mothers-to-be) in the realms of this show.

Mary will fall. The question is not even “when” over “if”. It is “how far”.

[floralmotif]

Setups and parallels (12.15 meta and spoilers)

I’ve pretty much just watched the ep and a couple earlier episodes for context so if I’m retreading ground, sorry. 

12.15 is pretty “by the book” and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. When things are spread out for you in simple terms, it can be easier to see what’s been happening and what will happen based on the information given. (as long as they don’t pull as s10.)

This episode is very tight in that there isn’t much room for extra threads in terms of where the story is going. Not by Davy’s watch anyway. Another writer could change it up but probably not in any huge way. Davy seems to have received a lot of story notes or he knew of changes that were going to be happening to characters in the future so he set up information to the audience to make those changes and decisions make sense in the long run(even if they were unfavorable) You know, that thing that didn’t happen with enough backing for Crowley’s decisions in 12.13. This episode pretty much screams “we’re in for the long haul”. It also does an interesting job at pointing out the mental state of everyone at the moment. Again, I think this is to give a groundwork for what happens later on. This is an episode of setup and context. 

More detailed info below. 

Parallels for pretty much everyone abound. Davy is pretty good at using parallels to give density to his episodes without spending a lot of time explaining information. The parallels also tighten the story. When I say tighten, I mean there isn’t room for extra stuff after a certain point. The parallels make the story very centralized and everything sort of hones in when they’re used. They add density but also narrow the scope. It’s actually not bad at all when used correctly as long as you’re aiming for a centralized scope. It’s one of the reasons why Dean and Cas can’t have other long term love interests. The story is too tight and the parallels help build that to be the case. The best thing about them is that they tell us info we haven’t heard directly.

On that note, let’s start with the set up with Dean and Cas and Mary and Sam. These guys have been paired off since early in the season and it makes perfect sense. They’re paralleling S6 which calls for a betrayer. So we bring back a character who fulfills the same roll the betrayer did: To deconstruct a long held ideal for the purpose of rebuilding new ideals the audience can see on screen. Dean and Cas’ dynamic is crushed in a similar way Sam and Mary’s is crushed. The difference here is how Sam reacts to the betrayal. Unlike Dean, he still tries to maintain the initial “pedestal” that he put Mary on even after the betrayal is revealed and is in a way, refusing to construct or see a new ideal. He’s holding on to the old one because it sounds better on the surface, something people do in real life all the time (if you look closely, you can see part of the show’s message shining through). Dean gave Cas the benefit of the doubt, but when the betrayal was confirmed, the pedestal came down and only crumbled further until room for rebuilding was cleared with the old dust. Dean has the same reaction to Mary here but his pedestal was slowly crumbling even before the betrayal. Sam started losing his dynamic with Cas early on (”the boy with the demon blood”) and Dean did with Mary as well. 

Sam didn’t have a reason to maintain a good connection with Cas when he betrayed them. By that point, Cas was basically Dean’s npc and while Sam cared for him, it was more tangential. He does have a reason with Mary though and that reason is why Dean is forced to keep a dynamic with her too. He can’t run away and keep back like he did from Cas (albeit not completely, even then). Sam gives Dean a push to listen and to consider different information to what he understands. He’s right in this case, but the exercise is necessary for his character. Even if this ends badly, Dean needs to learn to accept other people’s decisions and Sam needs to learn to accept his own. It’s a test for both of them. When this ends, Sam will be wrong, but hopefully he will have learned that being wrong doesn’t always mean the end of the world and I’m guessing some aspect of the new episodes will give him something to be right about as well. Something Dean won’t approve of initially. Yay more parallels!

Throughout this episode Sam and Mary and Dean and Cas are given parallels. Dean pretty much entirely interacts with Cas directly(even on speaker, he calls Cas) and Sam interacts with the BMol and Mary. They also are given further parallels with who they interact with in this episode: Dean is given supernatural characters and Sam is given primarily humans. Dean is also given a Cas mirror and Sam is given a Mary mirror in the forms of Crowley and Gwen respectively, and just like Crowley is an “anti-Cas”, Gwen is an “anti-Mary”.. 

Gwen actually gives the audience some interesting information about Mary in relation to Sam and to this season’s use of opposing parallels for characters. Gwen in an “Anti-Mary”. In 4.03 we learn about Mary’s deal with Azazel to save John. We also learn about Mary’s apparent desire to get out. I do believe she still has that desire in s12, just like Sam does, but also like Sam, she has resigned to the idea that she’s good at it and can’t get away from it. I think both her and Sam see the BMoL as their only ticket out and want to believe that that thought process is good because it serves their goals and ideals. Another thing people do a lot in real life. In this case their motivation makes sense because as Cas points out in 4.03: “You realize, if you do alter the future; your father, you, Sam, you’ll never become hunters. And all those people that you saved, they’ll die.” Sam and Mary see the BMoL as a way to silence the lambs so they and the world can live in the way they believe is “normal”.

Gwen also wants to get out but in a different way. She wanted away from Marcus. She had an opportunity to get away but she couldn’t bring herself to tell Marcus. Mary was staying in but she didn’t tell John. Both characters were being proposed to. One wanted the white picket fence or thought she did, and one didn’t. Gwen didn’t love Marcus as much, and Mary did. As the audience, and in a way for Sam, we get information saying that Mary is better than Gwen. She really did love John and she really does love her boys. Gwen lives at the end of the episode. Even though she wished death on her boyfriend and couldn’t bring herself to tell him of her thoughts, she still lived. What does that mean for other characters? I still don’t think Mary will last the season (not in the capacity she has anyway) and this scene made me wonder about that further. It also makes a statement about how Sam confronts humans and their issues. Sam and Gwen save each other because the other is human. They also save each other to save themselves, both literally and metaphorically. Even after learning the nature of her transgression. In 5.03, Dean was already learning about things that went against the black and white world view back then. At the time, demon deals were just bad period and he contemplated stopping it for Mary, now they’re a thing that happens. Sam wasn’t there to see Mary’s deal but he’s here to hear of Gwen’s. I think Dean would probably have helped her too, but not without giving her a stern talking to. Sam doesn’t give saving her a second thought and honestly, leaving the Hell Hound alive probably wouldn’t have mattered much since she still had her programming. “Demons I get, people are crazy” Both Sam and Dean come to the rescue of Gwen and Mary despite their deals, but for different reasons and with different, almost opposing meaning. Dean came to save Mary already knowing about the deal, but because of Gwen and because of all the information surrounding Mary’s deal, we can infer that, that’s not all of what’s being focused on in his instance. It also tells us what the focus is for Sam. The audience is given further reminder of his thought process here. The show keeps reminding us of Dean and Sam’s different approaches and draws attention to how Dean and Sam have changed using each other as parallels.

Then we have Crowley. In some terms, I think Crowley’s issues here stem from a need to keep both he and Luci in the game. I find Crowley interesting and their “distant father to distant father” talk is kinda neat when written well. Some of Crowley’s actions seem to be a product of necessity but Davy at least piled some nice Crowlisms on to rule over the weirdness of 12.13. Him making th vessel the cage helps override some of the previous stupid. Thanks Davy. I’m also kind of glad to hear Crowley mention Gavin again just so we’re given more of reminder of how much he did care about having him around. It’s retroactive but it’s something.

Crowley is mostly a Cas mirror and Cas is often paralleled to John. Cas tends to be given fatherly storylines and Dean is given motherly ones... it’s still interesting and this season makes it really interesting. Anyway, in this episode, Dean is given Crowley to bounce off and makes a comment about saving Cas in the most pointed way imaginable. The show still likes to remind us of the parallels between Cas’ dynamic with Dean and Mary’s with Sam as the episode goes and it’s kind of glorious. You can reverse engineer a lot of what’s happening by taking one side and comparing it to the other. It’s one of the reasons I like the parallels here. They help me fill in blanks, almost like the parts of an algebra equation. Supernatural eps are actually a lot like math equations. If I can figure out an accurate algorithm, I’ll let y'all know.

Crowley standing in for Cas here kind of draws attention to how Cas and Dean have effected each other. They won’t admit it yet, but they’ve really rubbed off on each other. Dean now actively favors the truth and seeks it even when it hurts (unlike in 5.03, during an interaction with Cas), Dean now accepts aspects of the Supernatural and recognizes a gray area over a black and white “us vs them” mentality. Dean has begun crafting a new ideal that is his own because of Cas (season 7 explored the hell out of this), etc. Cas has become more human, and greatly with Dean’s influence. He understands regret, sadness, love and family. Cas even voices this over 12.10 and 12.12. Crowley has also learned to accept some of these aspects. In all ways, these characters have rubbed off on each other and it’s been good for everyone, as this episode points out with Gwen hugging Crowley (it had to be Crowley, he has a journey too) and Dean going back to save Gwen and give her the truth at her house. (those two things are combined for a reason. Association is fun).

Gwen’s hugging Crowley also sets up something for both he and Cas. By Sam saving Gwen because of her humanity, we can use her as a standin here. A human has embraced Crowley. He got a good gesture from doing something that favored humanity. This holds significance in his journey and probably means that he’ll embrace humanity in some way, eventually. Her embracing a Cas mirror also gives us some context for how humanity feels about Cas. They’re embracing him too, but like Crowley, Cas is afraid to fully embrace humanity back. He may love the Winchesters and especially Dean but his actions in the episode make it clear that he’s reluctant to fully embrace humanity, that he’s scared, that he still wants to make good with his birth family, but he will embrace them eventually. Gwen would have hugged Sam, otherwise.

This brings me to my last points. Miss Kelly and her baby. There actually isn’t much to go by here, but based on all the setup with embracing supernatural things, and Mary being wrong in this case and “a better way” and all that jazz, I’m pretty sure at least the baby will be fine, being alive wise. I’d like to say so will Kelly but sadly, she’s probably on the list. Unless she gets some characterization, she’s just screen time that could be dedicated to characters we already know. I know that sounds harsh, but we’re in a situation where either she’s going to stick around or not and the only way she’ll likely leave the baby is if she dies. Characterizing her could save her but I doubt they’ll do it. There’s only so much time they can dedicate each character and we have a lot of threads to go through this season. Trust me, I don’t like it and if they could give her a hidey-hole or something and have her willingly give the baby to someone else, that sounds like best case.

Before I started writing, I did scroll my feed a little and saw a couple of people being worried that Sam will kill Kelly because he killed the Hell Hound. I don’t think this is true. I think the Hell Hound being pregnant was more of a world thing rather than a story thing. If God killed most of the Hell Hounds, Lucifer would need a way to have more, since we know there are more. The Hell Hound being pregnant would give the reason for why he has so many. Also, the Hell Hound isn’t pregnant and the moment. If it was, it would be an oddly specific detail and the assessment would make more sense. Again, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong but even despite all this, the baby dying goes against the theme of the show at the moment. They could pull a Magda but that would be extremely anti-climactic and would betray all the buildup we’ve been given.

What they draw attention to matters. It’s set up. It can hurt but we’re given the contrast so the payoff has meaning.

One last thing: 

Dear Editor of 4.03, 

I saw what you did there with that insert of Deanna cutting bananas while Samual and Dean were arguing. I just wanted to let you know that i appreciate it and thought it was funny.

We editors gotta stick together.

Sincerely, Some lady on the internet