#also connected to lilith in lore

[ya-kiri]

The Demon Haunt has given me a new appreciation for Lilim.😊

[nocreativityfornames]

Everything we know about Diavolo so far, lore wise.

WARNING: SPOILERS FOR ALL SEASONS

➤ He's the prince and future king of the Devildom, and the founder of RAD — the Royal Academy of Diavolo — taking the position of Student Council President. (swd: 1-1)

➤ He created the exchange program as a first step towards his goal of strengthening the relationships between the three realms and forming an allyship between angels, demons and humans. (swd: 1-1)

➤ He has the ability to discern the truth from the lie. (swd: 4-1)

➤ He was the one to step in and save MC from being attacked by Lucifer in the underground tomb. (swd: 6-6)

➤ He hasn't seen his father in several centuries now and only knows that the Demon King is somewhere in the bottom of the Devildom. (swd: 7-10)

➤ Unlike Lucifer, he saw MC's pacts with the brothers as a good thing from the very beginning. To him, MC's pacts were proof that demons and humans could put aside their differences and actually form bonds together. And that made him happy, considering it was all he wanted with the exchange program. (swd: 8-19)

➤ Before, citizens of the Devildom were allowed to travel to the Human World whenever they wished through passages spread through the kingdom, but Diavolo changed that after taking over the throne. Now, those passages are blocked and the only way demons can use them is by getting permission from Diavolo, Lucifer, or Barbatos - the only demons apart from his father who are allowed to use them freely. (swd: 11-4)

➤ He ordered Barbatos to imprison Belphegor in the castle and put Lucifer under house arrest for hiding the youngest from him even though he had planned treason. But later, he admitted to having known about it beforehand. "...Truth be told, I knew. I knew you were hiding Belphegor, and I knew why. Your loyalty to me forced you to deceive your brothers, and I knew that was a source of guilt. I saw how you struggled with it-how hard it was being pulled in two directions at once. And it made me sad.” (swd: 13-14 and 15-12)

➤ When the eight siblings were cast down to the Devildom and Lilith was in the verge of death from the battle, Lucifer begged Diavolo to save her and he did, having her reborn in the Human World with no memories of her previous life. This came with a cost, however, said cost being Lucifer's loyalty to the prince for the rest of time. (swd: 14-10 and 15-7)

➤ He refused to free Belphegor at first, but eventually made a deal with MC: to release him from prison if they went back in time with the help of Barbatos' powers and found out who had freed him in the first place. (swd: 15-14)

➤ He had Barbatos trace down MC's bloodline and found out that they were a descendant of Lilith because of it. (swd: 16-15)

➤ On his birthday he decided to not only celebrate himself but also MC, to give them a "late welcome party" and show appreciation for them after everything that had happened. (swd: 18-A)

➤ He was suspicious of Solomon for suddenly showing up in the Devildom with MC unannounced (swd: 21-4) but arranged things so they would be able to stay for a while. (swd: 22-19)

➤ When Lucifer and his siblings fell Diavolo found them in the colosseum, and every now and then he finds himself going there and pondering over his past decisions and wondering if they were the correct ones after all. (swd: 24-13)

➤ He was the first Solomon talked to about his suspicions that MC was connected to the natural disasters happening in ancient locations around the realms, and for a while only the two of them and Barbatos knew about it (swd: 37-4), since Diavolo decided to keep it a secret from everyone else until he had proof of MC's powers being harmful to the realms (swd: hard mode, 32-16).

➤ He had MC undergo the standard magic exams that demons students are given at RAD, and although he initially told MC it was to help them learn more about the powers demons possess and how to control them (swd: 29-5), it was actually a test to see if their magic was as powerful as Solomon suspected. The sorcerer was proven right when MC passed each of them. (swd: 37-4)

➤ His secrecy and unusual reliance on Solomon caused a strain on his relationship with Lucifer, as the eldest knew that Diavolo was hiding something but refused to tell him. They eventually had a conversation in the colosseum after RAD's exams week ended, where Lucifer directly enquired him about what was happening. Diavolo refused to tell him, saying it wasn't "the right time" for him to know yet, and when Lucifer asked if whatever secret he was keeping involved MC the prince replied that he wasn't certain yet, further concerning him. (swd: 28-C)

➤ He's "not fond" of Simeon because he finds him difficult to deal with and told this to the angel's face while speaking to him. When Simeon asked Diavolo why he found him difficult to deal with, he explained that it's because angels never divulge anything about themselves or the Celestial Realm but are constantly inserting themselves into Devildom business, and he's especially not fond of Simeon because he hides his true intentions better than any angel Diavolo has ever met. (swd: Hard Mode, 31-16) He's so unfond of Simeon that when he finally decided to make him aware of MC's powers being a threat to the three realms, he asked Solomon to break the news instead of doing it himself. (swd: Hard Mode, 32-16)

➤ He eventually decided to tell Lucifer about MC’s situation and through text apologized to the Avatar of Pride for leaving him in the dark for so long and asked him to meet him so he could finally let him in on what was happening (swd: hard mode, 36-16). Unfortunately that meeting never happened, since Lucifer ended up affected by MC’s powers and lost his memories before Diavolo could explain anything to him. (swd chat: the fantastic three, "untitled")

➤ Finally breaking the news to everyone, he and Solomon told the others everything, from the moment the sorcerer started growing suspicions about MC's powers to the moment that their powers struck Lucifer and he lost his memories. They also presented their only solution(s): to sever MC's pacts with the Night Dagger in order to break their magical connections to the brothers and make them an avarage human again. There was another solution: to stabilize MC's magic with the Ring of Light - the counterpart to the Ring of Wisdom that once belonged to Lucifer - but it was discarded right away as the ring had been lost in the Great Celestial War and no one knew its whereabouts. (swd: 37-9)

➤ Once everyone knew the whole story, he apologized to MC for not finding another way to prevent their magic from causing massive destruction to the realms, since he knew neither MC or the brothers wanted to sever their pacts with the each other. (swd: 37-9)

➤ When all things ended well and MC was able to get their powers under control without using the Night Dagger thanks to the Ring of Light that Simeon found just in time, Diavolo organized a party to honor MC and celebrate the victory. (swd: 39-1)

➤ He showed no surprise when MC expressed wanting to stay in the Devildom instead of going back to the Human World but still refused the request. Later, he explained why: "I don't want MC to be a demon...or an angel, for that matter. No, I want MC to be a human. A human who understands us, and who works together with Solomon to shepherd the human world toward a better future… Someday I'd like MC to work alongside me to bring harmony to the three worlds. Which is precisely why I won't allow you to be stuck here in the Devildom, MC. I want you to learn more about the three worlds and to understand each of them better... The human world, the Devildom, and the Celestial Realm.” (swd: 39-10 and 40-22)

➤ He couldn't accompany the brothers on their vacation to the Human World at first because of work and told MC he often found it hard to get things done with everything being so quiet since the others weren't in the Devildom with him. (swd: 42-18)

➤ When tasked with the over the kingdom in his father's absence, the first thing Diavolo did was to start conciliating with the Celestial Realm to end the conflict between the two realms. For this, he started having meetings with high-ranking angels to explain his plans and hopefully reach an agreement of peace between the realms. That was how he met Lucifer, when the angel came down the Devildom to hear what he had to say. (swd: 44-12, 44-15 and swd card: Lucifer, "Glory Days")

➤ He's a majority shareholder of the Three-Legged Crow Group otherwise called Yatagarasu, the largest company in the Devildom that's been expanding business in the Human World with their technology devices. (swd: 47-11)

➤ He has admitted to feeling jealous of the bond MC and the brothers share multiple times. On one hand, he's jealous of the brothers for being so close to MC, and on the other, he's jealous of MC for managing to become a part of their family so easily. “I wonder, when was it, exactly? When did you and your brothers become so very important to me? I thought I'd never be able to become ‘one of you.’ It seemed ridiculous to even try because it was just obvious that I couldn't. But then MC did just that... Effortlessly fitting in with the seven of you to become just another one of the gang. More than that, actually. MC is part of your family now. And when I saw that, it may have made me a little jealous. And while I haven't wanted to admit it to myself up to now...the truth is, I think I was lonely.” (swd: 48-12 and Hard Mode, 50-16)

➤ His mother died shortly after giving birth to him and he was raised by his father who was very strict and gave him a sheltered childhood, so much so he rarely ever left the castle. (swd: 56-18)

➤ He met Barbatos for the first time when he was still a child and the older demon was the first person he met from outside the castle. The older demon amazed him with stories of the outside world, and little Diavolo begged him to stay with him, getting to the point of threatening not to assume his position of king in the future if Barbatos left him. (swd: 56-18)

➤ When the brothers at the farewell party asked if they could make MC “officially part of the family” by marrying them, Diavolo explained that demons and humans aren't able to marry yet but that he'll do everything he can so one day that'll be possible. “MC, you aren't aware of this, but some bad blood still exists between our three worlds. No matter how much all of you may want this to happen, it's not something I have the power to do on my own. [...] However, my ultimate goal is to eliminate these barriers someday. And I will do everything in my power to make sure that happens.” (swd: 60-15)

➤ A while after MC left Diavolo sent them a magic letter and asked them to come to the Devildom for a third time because he had something important to discuss with them. (swd: 61-4) And that something turned out to be a request for MC to participate in the exchange program for a second time and an invitation for them to be a new member of the student council. (swd: 62-17)

➤ The intentions for this second try of the exchange program was mostly the same but now with a different approach, as Diavolo explained to everyone in the meeting then: “Our last exchange program was meant to provide an opportunity for cultural exchange among the inhabitants of all three worlds. But nothing more than that. Think of it as merely a starting point on the path to mutual understanding. But this time, the goal of the program is to make a stronger case for mutual understanding. Directed at everyone both inside and outside of the Devildom.” (swd: 62-17)

➤ He's known Mephistopheles ever since they were children. (nb: 13-11)

➤ Initially, his father was the main reason why he was determined to be a good king and why he even rescued the brothers in the first place. He craved the king's approval, wanted to live up to his name, show himself worthy of the throne, and eventually surpass him. He was forced to face this truth when he was younger during his last trial of the Kingsblood Crucible - a traditional ritual that demons of royalty have to go through before they take the throne. (nb: 14-7)

➤ After MC was officially appointed as the 9th member of the Student Council and the short-term exchange program ended, he gave them an “entry permit” so they could travel from the Human World to the Devildom whenever they wanted. (swd: 80-22)

[circeyoru]

collection of overlords??? I love it so muchh 😭💗💗. I have some questions for this, does reader have any connection to Lucifer? By that i mean are they close and does he visit them from time to time. Or does he just ignore them as long as they don't bring harm to his family and to most of the residents of the ring? I feel like for someone like reader that owns all of the overlords soul, Lucifer would at least be acquainted with them (all of your writings are so addicting, I've already read all of them twice by now)

Go to MASTERLIST for the works. This ask is for {Collection of Overlords}.

Thank you for liking this newest story!! And my writings!! I can't believe there are part 2 requests. Now there's ask!! AHHH!!

Anyways. Back to the topic at hand~ A bit of lore too

Simple answer yes. (ok end of this post, just kidding)

Okay, essentially, I see Reader/you with this background. You were the Ruler of Hell, before Lucifer and Lilith's arrival. Since Lucifer was a powerful angel then fell, you let him hold the title of King of Hell since you saw him to be the one with more power. And the fact that if he used holy magic on you, there wasn't much of a way you could counter it. However, Hellborns still see you as a royal of the highest rank, but they don't rebel against Lucifer or Lilith's reign so it's all okay.

You were the one to help Lucifer and Lilith rise to power once they arrived, nothing like what you did to the Overlords. You introduced them to the demon nobles and the sins of different Rings of Hell. Naturally, they were stationed in Pride where you were formerly. The Overlord system wasn't in effect yet, it only started when Lucifer and Lilith's reign became less public and their focus shifted. You suggested a new hierarchy ranking that was specific to Sinners since there were a vast number of them and they do aim to stand in power. There can't be a rebellion and the Hellborns were in line because of their respective Ring's Sin. What of Pride? Because either the King or Queen were taking their duties, you took the role of maintaining a balance.

Your relationship with Lucifer in the beginning was a mentor and mentee type, since you had more experience with ruling, you showed him the ropes. Then it turned to friends when he was in his Kingly position. While others may see you two as rivals with your 'army' of Overlords and Lucifer's angelic powers, you two respect each other on serious matters. Plus, Lucifer understands that you basically still hold authority over Hell like back in the old days, but you just don't show it. Your history as the Ruler of Hell was painted as a legend that the Hellborns passed on to their children from generation to generation.

You notice how there are eyes everywhere? I'll adapt it to you being everywhere and nowhere at the same time. That's how you keep an eye out for things and know when to act.

Fun fact: Lucifer makes you ducks too, it's basically like a private phone between you two. It's still a bit awkward when you hold up the ducky to your ear. You're also his unpaid therapist when it came to listening to him rant and whine about missing his daughter, Charlotte all the time.

[sparklingsora]

Hi. I would like to know many things about your roleswap au bc I love it very much but I have no idea what to ask I just want to know many things bc my brain has been consumed already

uhhhhh I guess can you lore dump a little bit on backstories? Idk I just wanna know everything about this au

I will be back in your ask box for this au several times most likely

-Spaghetti Brain Anon

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ASK!!! i am SO glad that i could get this au to live in someone else's brain rent free too. all i could ever ask for in life tbh i guess i'll infodump about character backstories, dynamics, character arcs, all that juicy stuff putting it under cut because HO BOY THIS IS GONNA GET LONG

as a heads up, take the timeframes i give you with a grain of salt, because i still havent completely figured out the timeline so first of all, vox!! he's a sinner, died in the 1950s, as per canon. he's a businessman, but less stable than in canon. he's always jumping from job to job, business to business, which results in him having a lot of connections with various people around hell. soon after arriving in hell, he met and became friends with alastor. cut to, i'd say around 7-10 years before the events of the story? alastor disappears without a trace during an extermination and vox assumes him dead. having now been personally touched by the effects of the extermination, the idea to try and solve overpopulation another way is planted in his head, but wont come to fruition until much later. in the meantime he meets velvette - finds her bleeding out in an alleyway after getting too cocky and trying to fight back to an exorcist (bad idea). he nurses her back to health, they become friends and eventually start dating, yada yada yada. one day vox and velvette find a funky little cat (keekee). keekee takes a liking to them and leads them to the old ruins of a building up on the hill on the edge of pentagram city. they figure out that the cat turns into a keyblade that can be used to magically build shit (only the hotel though, as keekee is the spirit of the hotel or??? whatever the hell the canon lore is idk???) vox finally decides to realize his idea to try and solve overpopulation more humanely - through redeeming sinners! his reasoning is, if angels can fall (as proven by lute and charlie), then demons can surely ascend, right? though he's not as sure or idealistic about it as charlie is in canon. he simply thinks it has a chance of working, and opening up a hotel means a bigger sample size than if he were to just try and get into heaven himself or something like that. besides, he wouldnt wanna go to heaven, he likes it here. also, im not sure where this is situated in the timeline yet, but he was in a band with adam, lute and possibly eve at some point? the band is called brimstone eden, as mentioned in the comic i posted. im not sure yet whether he was in the band prior to eve's disappearance or after it (eve disappears 7 years before the story starts to mirror canon lilith). swap!vox, like his canon counterpart, is a very reactive person. he follows trends, he's extremely go-with-the-flow to a fault. he never really had any strong beliefs until the hotel - his character arc mainly involves him gaining something to believe in and learning to fight for that belief, 'ready for this' being more or less the culmination of his arc. jesus christ i cant believe i wrote that much JUST on vox. *slaps the top of his head* this boy can fit so much lore in him

now, velvette... she's how you'd expect her to be. same old brave, arrogant velvette. she's a fashion designer and seamstress and runs a moderately sized business which she promotes on sinstagram. she's mutuals with val there, which is how he finds out about the hotel. there's not much to write home about when it comes to val - it's insane how similar angel and him are. like literally barely anything changes when you swap them, it's very clean. he's a prn star, sold his soul to angel dust, yada yada. though a bit on his dynamic with vox - vox is very good at reading people, and doesn't like being lied to (he's a bit of a hypocrite in that regard - he puts on a facade all the time when in professional settings). he can clearly tell val isnt doing as good as he pretends he is, and wants to help him really badly, but val just sees it as vox pitying him and rejects his help (its what they fight about in ep 4, as a counterpart to the whole "charlie going to the studio" thing bc vox wouldnt do that) and now here's the fun part - ALASTOR! oh, alastor, you beautiful stuck up bitch! so turns out, he's not so dead after all! he ALMOST died in that fateful extermination, but husk found him and offered him a "give me your soul right now or bleed out in this alleyway" type deal. of course alastor chose the former, but boy he's not happy about it. he's extremely ashamed of how far he's fallen. so ashamed, in fact, that he hid from the world for those 7-10 years! yeah! he's only pulled out of hiding when husk summons him to be the bartender for the hotel. vox is of course, extremely bewildered and demands answers. alastor doesnt give them and avoids him instead. it takes a sincere conversation with valentino in ep 4 for alastor to finally talk to vox again and explain himself. alastor is basically in extremely deep denial of just how fucked his life is. he clings onto his radio demon persona like a lifeline bc its the last thing that can help him feel some semblance of control over his situation. his tension with valentino is twofold - first they butt heads because of opposing personalities, and second because they both see the other's bullshittery. it's a clusterfuck it eventually bubbles over in ep 4, they both admit how absolutely fucked they are and are friends now. wish i could say more on al & val bc i love them very much but it seems ive run out of eloquency for now. though i know i'll draw some comics of them eventually so maybe it'll come across better in comic form. anyway as mentioned above ive run out of eloquency and im honestly not sure how coherent this whole thing is so you'll have to come back for the other characters some other time, dear anon! until then, thank you so much for the ask once again, and have a nice day/night :)

[teeth-cable]

Why Lucifer being a good person is fucking stupid:

So in the show canon Lucifer and Lilith were kicked out because they were dreamers and gave Eve the fruit of knowledge. Based off the lore of Helluva Boss Lucifer 99% is the sin of Pride. In the show Lucifer is just a quirky theatre major who just wants to reconnect with his daughter...

Ok so lets analyze why this does not make sense in the worldbuilding. Lucifer is the King of Hell, a.k.a. a place full of homicidal maniacs and various other people. And since angelic weapons can harm angels (which is stupid btw) and sinners have been stealing weapons left behind by angels... Lucifer logistically cannot be a good person because these people could just decide to try to murder him if he was too weak. He needs the sinners and populace to fear him or respect him. Since Helluva takes place in the same setting Lucifer must have put in the social hierarchy of hell, approved it or doesn't do anything about it. Which means he plays some part in Stolas and Stella being forced to wed and the imps plus hellhounds being treated like garbage.

Then we get into story construction problems. Like if Charlie and Lucifer have a good relationship instantly then almost all the problems in the show can be solved at a snap of a finger because of Lucifer's power level. Its a similar problem with Alastor but worse because Lucifer is stronger. Like Alastor tho is implied to be weakened and forced to do this so there is intrigue storywise and limits on his personality and power. Lucifer is angel and can just like idk zap the Vees. Theres no threat, risk or anything now.

Also this Lucifer may have slept with Eve which either implies he cheated on Lilith or Adam was cheated on twice and Lucifer also agreed with genocide

And what wouldve been better is Lucifer being a shitty dad or person WHICH WE HAD IN THE PILOT. Like Lucifer being awful is actually better for the previous reasons and Charlie's own character. Like Charlie is supposed to be an underdog despite being princess and has an impossible task and if her father doesnt believe in her theres another personal level to then and maybe some of the audience could connect with her. And if Charlie's dad hates her or something you could easily write in and make Charlie struggle more by having him cut off her resources. Heck if her dad is awful then you can write in how Charlie feels about being so morally different. Then slowly build up to when we see Lucifer for the first time and actually have it feel special

This just makes me missed the pilot even more. While it did have it's own problems with the worldbuilding and characters, a majority of its ideas were still believable.

A better angle for Lucifer would be if he was a morally grey character. He can still be a decent father but a terrible ruler. Of course, that angle wouldn't work because everything in this show has to be black and white, where it literally tells you in a song, "Cause the rules are black and white" despite the same show critiquing its Heaven for the same black and white thinking.

I'm not against the idea of Lucifer being a decent father because there are still other ways the show can create conflict between him and Charlie. For example, he does get her the meeting into Heaven but it's at a cost. If she's unable to convinced Heaven, she has to abandon the hotel. Or maybe he is skeptical of Charlie's idea so he makes her overcome the hotel's problems, like the Vees, alone, to prove how strong and passionate she is. Of course, if they hurt Charlie, he can easily kill them, but it can serve as a great character moment for the both of them. Charlie learning Hell is brutal, Lucifer now hating the hotel because it will hurt Charlie, and create a new conflict where Charlie and Lucifer are against each other. Or the fact Lucifer was the one who allowed the exterminations to happened and Charlie has to undo her father's actions.

I'm only focusing on Lucifer being a "good" person through parenting because almost everything else, he's a bad guy. Not only was this the same man who allowed the yearly genocide of the sinners but also he created the classist, racist social hierarchy and system in Hell, and let the pride ring become so awful, the overlords, a group of powerful sinners, are taking advantage of regular sinners daily.

[justanotherblogger]

Random Rambles And Theories About Alastor Go!

Ok, so right now I am on a high with all the recent Alastor lore we've been blessed with in Hazbin Hotel, and this little murderer has been occupying my mind 24/7. I really need to get all my theories and rambles out that I don't see a lot of people talking about.

(BTW, before my ramble, I have seen many places say he was mixed race as a human, but if I am wrong, please let me know, because this delves deep into that with his human life.)

(Also be warned for a bit of gore/violence and that this thing is kind of long)

Now let's begin!

I'll start with the most talked about theory with Alastor: his connections with Lilith and why he reacted the way he did with Lucifer

The show has given us what many people think are hints to this with both of them gone for 7 years, the slight eye twitch in the pilot when he looked at liliths portrait, Alastor showing up right after Charlie finished voicmailing her mom also in the pilot, how he knew about Charlie's Daddy Issues before she seemed to have told anyone, the leash comment from Husker, and how Alastor reacted to Lucifer.

Now, all of these could be chalked up to Alastor having some sort of nice relations to Lilith, but some of these are a bit too far stretched to just be because he has interacted nicely with Lilith in my eyes.

I have seen many people talk about how Alastor must have gotten a bad impression of Lucifer because either him and Lilith are besties and talk crap about him after the split, or he listened to her complaints about him and got an impression off of that to dislike him this much right off the bat in episode 5.

But I don't think that's it. We see how badly Alastor reacted to the leash comment by Husker, which definitely isn't a good sign that he would even trust the words of whoever is holding that 'leash' against him. He seemed pushed over the edge, vulnerable enough to lash out, which is unlike himself. Whatever deal he made for his soul, was most likely under threat, a life or death choice.

This is why I think he despises (most likely) Lilith or whoever has that 'leash' on him. He lashes out, sensitive about the subject. After gaining so much power over the overlords, he suddenly gets toppled over again by someone of (most likely) higher status, being forced into an unwilling contract, now just another pawn that this demon(?) can use for their own desires, and he doesn't want to be that, he needs to make his own decisions. But he doesn't have any say in the matter.

So I think why he was mocking and teasing Lucifer so much was because of his connection with Lilith. Everyone knew how deeply in love they were (before they split) and how they are both the most powerful demons in hell. I think Alastor took a chance to use his pent up anger on Lucifer, trying to get him to hurt as much as he can because of what Lilith did, all the while Lucifer cant do anything too serious leat he upset Charlie. We know he is extremely petty, after all. (we can also see him (most likely) letting off some steam when devouring the loan sharks, with him getting unnecessarily big and just letting loose on a couple of low-tier goons)

I saw another person talk about how Alastor has no power over Lucifer/Lilith, no political power, and he can't beat them in games of wits either. But the one thing that he does have the upper hand on, is their daughter, and I completely agree with that.

Alastor has been there since the beginning, has helped Charlie out and talked with her more than her own Parents had in the last couple of years probably. He's seen how attached the parents are to Charlie, and decided to use that info in full force. Just look at the Lucifer/Alastor duet.

Now that we have my theories of the life and death contract with Lilith, let's go deep into what I think is Alastors character right now:

Alastor, a mixed child in the early 1900's most likely had it really rough. With being treated as less than from both sides for being to dark/light to the violence that he most likely had to endure during his childhood.

This could have been where his anger/obsessive resentment started to simmer up in sporadic bursts over the years and years of belittlement, abuse, and racism.

Like I said before, he was probably treated as less than human for his mixed skin, and Alastor most likely started to hate it. His skin, the people, everything seemed so wrong. Why should the people who beat him and his mother see them so vulnerable and weak. He decided he didn't like that anymore.

So the radio show started. I got this idea from when he said his face was only made for radio. Over the radio, no one ever knew what you looked like. Just your voice would be broadcasted, and no one would ever see who was really behind the microphone unless they stepped out. This seemed like a barrier to Alastor. Letting himself go with no worries about letting people see him vulnerable behind his broadcast. (Maybe that's why he hates TV and modern tech so much; people can see everything about you)

And when his radio show became a hit and people wanted pictures and news? What would protect him then? Simple: his unwavering smile. Reactions are what people want when they crush others. They want to see them wallow and beg cry from what they have done. But Alastor won't let anyone do that to him ever again.

He stands his guard, not letting any comments get to him, keeping charming smile and unwavering voice all throughout his career as a radio host. Keep the smile up, dont have your voice crack, never show weakness. If you stop, those that wait will sink their teeth in and never let go of you. That's what I think a part of his mentality is and is maybe a part of why his smile is stitched on in his demonic form.

Now onto why I think he's a serial killer/cannibal. Remember when I said he had lots of unchecked anger and obsessive resentment? All this now simmering even more while being pushed down by his persona?

This is when he'll break loose.

He usually goes for the ones with the least amount of defense: drunkards/ bar frequenters. I though of this when Mimzy said he used to always come to the bar she was performing at and how he could drink like a sailor.

He might've drank with people to let their guard down in addition to his non-threatening charm, and he probably built a tolerance to be at least a bit sober when the others are full out drunk so he can easily transport and kill them.

He probably enjoys killing/eating his victims because a) it shows how he has power now. How he isn't a helpless victim anymore and he's finally in control of his life or b) where he likes seeing privileged people beaten and bruised for once, the gratification of seeing someone taste their own medicine by his own hand, like revenge, even if that person hadn't been necessarily bad towards him.

His death ro me is the same that everyone else thinks, where he's burying some victims body and gets mistaken for a deer, then shot straight between the eyes. What I do think a bit differently is that he was chased by hunting dogs first, which alerted the hunter for him to get shot, which then led to his fear of dogs.

Then he was finally free to do anything. Hell had no limits, he didn't have to hide his carnage anymore. But now that smile he wore was engraved into his face, almost making it impossible to frown. But that didn't matter. Not right now. Alastor has so many emotions bubbling up that he just wanted blood to be on his hands.

And then he slaughtered the overlords and took their souls within weeks ( maybe months, idk how quick he killed them, but ima go with weeks), broadcasting it over the radio to show everyone what he's been up to.

Alastor had kept this routine for a couple of decades, occasionally getting a guest star on his broadcast by those who he seems fit.

But maybe he had become too cocky with this power high, as he had been attacked by holy weaponry right before the extermination he dealth with most of them, but a shot did make it into his shoulder, causing him to collapse in pain, unable to move. (a bit simple, but I imagine him getting badly hurt by angels/angelic weaponry to lethal levels and Lilith decides to save him)

He fought hard when the angels arrived, of course, but he could only go so far in being this injured. So when he was about to get stabbed in the chest by a holy spear, he was already tired and almost accepted his fate, before being pulled somewhere by Lilith herself.

This is where Lilith offers a beat and broken Alastor a one time deal: become her servant or she'll throw him back to the exterminators herself. And in a situation like this, there's usually only one option you can really take.

And so he was a ghost, leaving everything he had behind. His power, his respect, his freedom...

Now Alastor had become a pawn again. A tool useful for the right situations, and just a toy to be played with by Lilith. This is exactly what he didn't want from his human life. The humility, the disregard, treating him as some sort of street animal, no matter what he did.

And now she orders him to guard her daughters hotel, giving him back a piece of his power to protect the hotel.

Alastor had hated Charlie for how she misused her amazing power for something like redemption.

Alastor hated Lucifer, for having all that power, being the strongest demon in hell, yet taking it for granted while mocking him about his choices.

And Alastor hated Lilith, for trapping him again, and renewing his endless cycle of suffering.

So those are my thoughts about Alastor. I think you can tell he's my favorite. I just love his powers and lore.

[sepublic]

With this analysis of Luz having Belos, and King having the Collector, it does feel as if Eda herself is technically missing her own personal antagonist; Though tbf, she does parallel/foil Belos in a lot of ways too. So it could simply be interchangeable, esp when we have Luz and the Collector; But a part of me wonders if there would've been a third villain, for Eda?

Like, maybe the Archivists; They're out there, and their relationship with the Collector can be comparable to Eda and King's. It's just that Eda lied to King and was at times a neglectful parent, but nevertheless came around... And since I believe it was an Archivist and not the Collector who turned the Owl Beast into a scroll, there's a very personal connection for Eda there, given how much the curse really shaped her life and made her self-doubt in a way even the coven system didn't (Though you could argue she only got cursed because of Belos' cutthroat system pitting Lilith against her).

Maybe the Archivists would've recognized their magic on Eda, would've recognized the Owl Beast especially and we'd get more lore on it; Not that the Archivists needed it to be special to 'preserve' it, per their stated MO. Given the Owl Beast's reaction to the Collector, imagine how it would've responded to the actual Archivist who transformed it? And we could've gotten more collaboration between Eda and the Owl Beast, more understanding as the latter became more active as a character...

Who knows, maybe the six-legged form we see in the finale is a super-harpy form that the two could've achieved against the Archivists; Or the 'Owl Deity' mural within the Owl House's living room.

I also wonder if Eda's antagonist is Lilith; After all, we've seen in the storyboards that she was originally going to be much more antagonistic and mean-spirited. I wonder why the writers changed this. I suspect it's to make the twist of Lilith cursing Eda actually impactful, since a Lilith who clearly cares and is struggling to have it both ways feels like a genuine betrayal to Eda and the audience, as does her dangling Luz over a cliff (Which in the storyboards, happens but isn't as huge of a deal).

So Lilith is an occasional antagonist and rival, but never a malicious threat and even someone who teams up; Which makes the revelation and her crossing a line hit extra-hard. So she's basically a twist villain, revealed as the 'mastermind' behind the curse that Eda struggles with in S1, with S1 having the most emphasis on the curse as a conflict for the protagonists to navigate; And Lilith sharing that curse is the resolution, as it's no longer an active problem threatening Eda's existence. There's still more (like the aforementioned Owl Beast) to address in S2, but the curse itself is not worsening anymore.

With all that in mind, I guess this makes Lilith technically the villain of S1? Since Belos only really takes initiative in the last two episodes. She's more recurring, and her being less antagonistic kind of works with S1 being much more light-hearted. I've already suggested before that each season corresponds to one of our main trio; S1 for Eda, S2 for King, and S3 for Luz. Belos definitely plays a bigger role in S2 while the Collector is more S3, so it's not exactly one-to-one...

Still, we can see the progression as the villains get more powerful; But in the end, Lilith and the Collector were both manipulated by Belos, and are won over in the end. Lilith gets the most screen time as an ally due to when she turns around, and thus her time as a protagonist overshadows her time as an antagonist.

I also have to wonder if Eda isn't meant to have her own villain? Eda is unlike Luz and King in that she's already a full-grown adult who's seen and learned plenty; She's got more to learn as we see. But she's more certain of her place in life, whereas Luz and King are going through their coming-of-age, and thus they have their personal antagonists to represent that big character conflict.

For Eda, it's more confronting herself; Or maybe the Owl Beast is that antagonist, since she does blame it for ruining her life and all that. Maybe it's Raine and Gwen and Dell and Lilith; Less in an "Antagonist" sense, and more as people Eda needs to make resolution with, that she's in conflict with.

And as an adult, that conflict is less overt and more quiet, internally painful, and really about just talking things out. By contrast, Luz still had her Gildersnake moment coming up, set up in THE very first scene of the show, and King had his arc renouncing his destroyer status to be more mature with the concept of power.

Maybe it's because Eda's not one who operates on fantasy like Luz and King do, either; In the second episode, Eda delivers the lesson about 'being special' which tell us a bunch. It suggests she's already been there and done that, she's the mentor. Her antagonist is less of an overt face per adulthood, but maybe it represents how she's done most of her growth.

So Eda's arc isn't about her relationship with fantasy; King's is abandoning his in favor of a quieter, sustainable reality; Luz has a nuanced dynamic with her fiction (due to it being less inherently destructive than King's), where she healthily distinguishes when and when not to embrace it.

It could be that since Dana originally held hopes for a prequel series involving teen Eda, that we would've gotten a more overt antagonist for her that way; Maybe Principal Faust! With his rantings on kids as evil, being an insincere teacher while Eda becomes a genuine one and even a dean! And that conflict’s resolution leads to Bump taking his place. And/or it's Terra Snapdragon. Hell what if it was the previous Golden Guard, and Darius not yet realizing what his mentor did wrong (even if his mentor realized but never vocalized it to a kid who could get in trouble) contributed to him no longer being friends with Eda; Because she defeated the Golden Guard.

(This reminds me of my speculation on Eda and the Golden Guard, before we learned Hunter's name, being parallels and having connections. They're not exactly parallels... Well maybe in some ways they are with their lacking magic... But they definitely have that lost-to-time familial connection.)

I did notice that in S3, Eda didn't have as much focus compared to Luz and King; Again, for the reasons I listed above about her having done most of her arc already, and what she had left had already been resolved. So it makes sense to focus on Luz and King, who are still struggling. But also again; If we got that prequel series, we would've gotten a bunch of solo Eda development and screen time, but without any Luz and King alas.

So when evaluating all these factors, maybe Dana and the writers chose to focus on Luz and King, and let Eda take the backseat for this reason; They'd still have a whole show for Eda, or at least a mini-series, afterwards. But this was the last we'd see of Luz and King, so I think that priority worked. Even if we evidently aren't getting that prequel series, if Dana's acceptance of this is any indication... Plus, again: S3 being short means they can only fit in so much, meaning Eda could only get so much too; Esp with the set-up of Luz needing to make her way back to Eda and King, which means they only have 2/3 of S3 where they can appear.

[emmys-grimoire]

The Nightbringer, how lesson 9-A tells us everything, and why it’s (probably) not Barb

I’m working on lesson 3 summary, but now that a good portion of the fanbase seems to have gotten through lesson 10, I feel it’s timely to get my thoughts out there ahead of covering lesson 10 because the story will likely continue before I’m done.

And I think a lot of you are ignoring some of the contextual clues.

Don’t read this if you don’t want lesson 8+ spoiled yet.

Ahead of the game releasing, most of the fanbase thought the prologue was a peek into how Barbatos met Solomon because it matched up with the lore in the OG game and Solomon was narrating. There were also other hints that Barb was behind things via promotional media and art. Pair that with his well-known time travel abilities, and it all seems very straightforward and obvious.

We learn in lesson 8, though, that the boy in the prologue video isn’t Solomon -- it’s Adam, and it’s heavily implied that he’s Lilith’s lover.

This fact alone doesn’t actually change much beyond the implied relationship between the Nightbringer and Solomon. It is relevant that Solomon is narrating, though, because they do have a significant relationship.

In lesson 9-A (and the node in lesson 10 that’s a continuation), which I have not gotten to myself yet, Solomon has a telling conversation with the Nightbringer after being confronted with illusions of Diavolo and Simeon meant to test his resolve. They’re squabbling over him, the obvious metaphor for humanity.

Solomon chooses neither, because he believes humanity doesn’t need either demons or angels guiding them. This is meant to mirror a choice he made in the past, as the self-appointed steward of humanity.

And furthermore, back then... the Nightbringer was likely one of the advocates of one of these sides. Furthermore, whatever this agreement he made with the Nightbringer is meant to ensure his “freedom”, even though...

The Nightbringer clearly wanted him to choose one of the presented sides, not neither. So which side was he on? He reveals his hand here, too, if you read into it far enough.

Why on earth would Solomon make this retort if the Nightbringer was actually a demon? If he was a demon, of course he’d be acting like one. It’d be no surprise, and certainly not considered an insult.

We got an angel who acts like a demon. This conversation doesn’t make any sense otherwise.

The Nightbringer is an angel? But that’s CRAZY!

Is it?

Is it really?

There’s one angel in particular who has a similar connection to Solomon as Barbatos, who has also had a significant role in his past: Michael.

We find out in the dream sequence flashback in S3 that Michael was eyeballing Solomon before the Great Celestial War. We know he’s the one who fished us out of that sequence, and warned us that the effect we had on the brothers past selves will carry on into the present (though admittedly this never manifests later). We find out he approached Solomon when he was lost and confused and we know he gave him his Ring of Wisdom, which grants the power to control demons. We find out in Nightbringer that Solomon waged war against the entire Devildom in an effort to leverage his newfound power to better humanity’s position. We learn that war was ultimately inconclusive. At numerous point in the story, Michael is referred to as a “demon in disguise” and a sadist like Lucifer.

We don’t know why Michael would give his very powerful ring to Solomon, but it likely was part of some agreement.

What doesn’t line up with this theory is a lack of motivation. I have no idea why Michael would want us to fling us back to this point of time, after the war. It sounds like he’d want to prevent the war entirely. Adam also meets the Nightbringer in the Devildom, and I can’t see the Devildom allowing Michael to just waltz in and meddle with things, particularly after the Great Celestial War. I’m not sure why they’d let any of them in, but I digress...

The other small details

There’s other small details strewn throughout the story that point to an angel, or at least someone that isn’t Barb.

Adam says he heard trumpets heralding the Nightbringer’s arrival. The king in the prologue also blows a trumpet.

You know what trumpets are associated with? Angels. According to this wikipedia article:

“In Christian Eschatology, all the first six trumpets are used to serve as a wake up call to the sinners on Earth and a call to repentance. Each trumpet blast brings with it a plague of a more disastrous nature than the one before it. The trumpet is used to build anticipation and tells the reader that an alert, announcement, or warning is about to take place. The seventh trumpet does not bring a plague with it. Rather, it is sounded so that glory is given to God and His kingdom is announced.”

There’s a bunch of other biblical associations, too. Barbatos has no trumpet symbolism in any point in the story. His callsign is portals.

Additionally, Barbatos interacts with time via doors.

The Nightbringer sees time as mud, which just might be the liquid swirling around in the Nightbringer trailer.

Who is the king?

The prologue implies that the Nightbringer is summoned via trumpets, and the trumpet is blown by a king. The Barbatos puppeteering art implies it’s a human king, but I’m not so sure.

Understanding who the king is may be instrumental in figuring out who the Nightbringer is. Is it a human king? Is it King Solomon? Is it the Demon King? Is it God? Is it someone completely different? It implies the Nightbringer acts at the behest of someone else, but so far it doesn’t sound like he is right now. And if he’s acting against Solomon, it would be quite problematic if he was tethered to him via a pact like Barbatos clearly is.

My conclusion

It’s either Michael and his motivations are simply more complex than I give him credit for, or it’s another angelic being that has gone rogue without falling somehow. I’m leaning towards the latter, honestly. I’d be really happy if we got a multi-season big bad.

It could still be an alternative timeline Barbatos if Barbatos was once an angel, and this is an angel Barb which has managed to avoid falling and doesn’t have the door motif thing going on. 

This is kind of why I hate time travel shenanigans. You have to account for so many damn possibilities that it gets tiresome having to sort through it all.

[gothamcitycentral]

Judging by everything we know, in Hazbin Hotel’s lore there was no War In Heaven started by Lucifer that resulted in his damnation. Makes sense, the fruit of knowledge is certainly more iconic and it fits the story and characters more for that event to be what sent Lucifer (and Lilith) to Hell.

But y’know that’s a pretty big thing that happened, and it makes me interested if there will be some equivalent in the show, even if not carried out by Lucifer.

With that idea, it’s interesting that there’s two characters currently with a lot of parallels with Lucifer sitting in Heaven

Emily being the ‘second Lucifer’ is pretty blatant with:

“If you start to question, you could end up like Lucifer.”

“Fallen.”

There’s also the idea that Emily is literally Lucifer’s replacement. That with his fall, Emily eventually came into being to fulfill his role in Heaven. Her explicit purpose is to “keep [Heaven’s people] happy and joyful,” an entertainer. Which is very much what Lucifer is, not only from his theatrics but his design being a clown that has dressed himself as the ringmaster. His introduction during his days in heaven even has him creating confetti and fireworks. This certainly explains why there’s this very young seraphim, who for all intents and purposes seems to be very close to Charlie’s age.

Meanwhile, Lucifer’s fall (the first fall) is directly connected to him taking the form of a snake. Then, Sir Pentious, the snake demon, is the first to rise. The show also emphasizes Sir Pentious out of all characters when Charlie and Lucifer are struggling to connect, showing him tearing up multiple times and commenting “that was sssweet” when they do accept each other (possibly due to his own implied desire for a family). They are also both creators, Lucifer having “fantastical ideas for creation” and being implied to have brought Keekee, Razzle, and Dazzle to life and Sir Pentious being a steampunk inventor who possibly created his own minions.

They also both have their own set up to be leaders. Emily is established to be very close to the people of Heaven, and therefore someone many of them would follow. The show also emphasizes just how darn similar Emily and Charlie are, so it’s not hard to imagine Emily having her own “Ready for This” moment. Meanwhile we’ve seen Sir Pentious grow into a capable leader with his role in the resistance against the Exorcists.

Additionally (while this is not a part of every reading of course) one of Lucifer’s reasons for rebellion was which souls were allowed into Heaven. That he would “redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost” (Moses 4:1), this being rejected because it would destroy the agency of mankind. What exactly redeeming all of mankind means is debated, but this concept is ripe for reinterpretation to be the cause of Emily or Sir Pentious starting the War in Heaven.

Frankly, I could see the show doing this with both of them. Emily starting the rebellion but this action being what causes her to fall, with Sir Pentious carrying on leading the rebellion following her departure. This is especially relevant given how in the war itself Lucifer takes on the form of a dragon, which fits in with Pentious’ own reptilian appearance (perhaps his ascension has come with a ‘higher form’ like Charlie has? One more draconic?).

[talonabraxas]

Lilith Talon Abraxas

Lilith, an ancient mythological figure and one of the oldest known female spirits in the world, has embodied various roles across cultures. In some sources she has been described as a demon, while in others she was revered as an icon who morphed to become one of the darkest deities of the pagans. While her roots can be found within the famous Epic of Gilgamesh, she was also described within both the Bible and the Talmud.

Within Jewish tradition, Lilith is regarded as the most notorious of demons, which in other sources she was portrayed as the first woman created on Earth. In fact, according to one legend, God formed Lilith as the first woman of the human race, employing the same method as he did with Adam. The only different was that in place of pure dust, he also used filth and residue to create woman.

Lilith's name, derived from ancient Semitic languages, carries profound symbolism. Signifying “the night,” it links her to the darkness and mysteries of the nocturnal realm. This association underscores her connection to primal instincts, including sensuality and freedom, while also evoking a sense of awe and fear, highlighting the complexity of her character across different cultural interpretations.

Lilith as the Ancient Demon of the Sumerians

Lilith’s name comes from the Sumerian word lilitu, which meant a wind spirit or a female demon. Lilith was mentioned in the Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh, a famous poem of ancient Mesopotamia dated back to not later than c. 2100 BC. Tablet XII was added to the original text much later, c. 600 BC, in its later Assyrian and Akkadian translations.

Within these ancient references, Lilith appears in a magical story, where she represents the branches of a tree. She is described along with other demons, but researchers still argue if she was a demon or a dark goddess.

Lilith's presence extends beyond Sumerian mythology; early Jewish texts also feature her prominently, complicating the quest to pinpoint her origin. Yet, from the outset, her association with Sumerian witchcraft is unmistakable.

Within the Babylonian Talmud, Lilith was described as a dark spirit with an uncontrollable and dangerous sexuality, said to have fertilized herself with male sperm to create demons. She was believed to be the mother of hundreds of demons.

Lilith was known in the culture of the Hittites, Egyptians, Greeks, Israelites and Romans as well. In later times, she migrated to the north of the Europe. Within various mythologies and folklore, Lilith represented chaos and sexuality with legends attributing her with casting spells. Additionally, her lore intertwines with early vampire narratives.

Lilith: Ancient Demon, Dark Deity or Sensual Goddess?

[magickkate]

Hey witches! Are you drawn to the rhythm of the waves, the salty scent of the sea, and the boundless expanse of the ocean stretching to the horizon? If so, you might be attuned to the magic of Sea Magic, a mystical practice that connects with the elemental energies of water and the mysteries of the deep. Here are a few ways to embrace the magic of Sea Magic:

🌊 Connect with the Tide: Sea witches typically have a strong connection to the ocean, drawing inspiration, energy, and spiritual guidance from its vastness and power. Tune into the ebb and flow of the tides, allowing their rhythmic movement to guide your magical workings and rituals. Work with the energy of high tide for abundance and manifestation, and low tide for release and letting go.

🚰 Water Magic: Water is a central element in sea witchery, and practitioners often work with its properties for cleansing, healing, intuition, and emotional balance.

🌙 Moon Magic: Like many other forms of witchcraft, sea witchery often incorporates lunar cycles and phases, harnessing the energy of the moon for rituals and spellcasting.

🪸 Herbalism: Sea witches may work with herbs and plants associated with coastal regions or those that thrive in saline environments for magical purposes.

🐬 Work with Sea Creatures: Connect with the spirits of the sea and the creatures that dwell beneath the waves, such as dolphins, whales, and mermaids, honoring their wisdom and guidance in your magical practice.

🐚 Collect Seashells and Sea Treasures: Sea witches may collect shells, driftwood, seaweed, and other items washed ashore for use in spells, rituals, or as talismans. Gather seashells, sea glass, and other treasures washed ashore by the ocean, incorporating them into your spells, rituals, and altar decorations to infuse your magic with the energy of the sea.

🌊 Invoke Ocean Deities: Cultivate a relationship with ocean deities and spirits, such as Poseidon, Yemaya, or Neptune, by offering prayers, making offerings, and invoking their blessings and protection in your magical workings.

🧜🏼‍♀️ Seafaring Lore and Folk Traditions: Sea witches may draw upon maritime folklore, legends, and traditions for rituals, spells, and divination practices. Marine creatures like dolphins, whales, mermaids, and sea turtles may hold symbolic significance in sea witchcraft, representing various aspects of the ocean's energy and mythology.

🌬️ Navigation and Divination: Some sea witches incorporate navigation techniques, such as reading the stars or using instruments like compasses, into their practice. Divination methods related to the sea, such as scrying with water or shells, may also be used.

🦭 Respect for Nature: Central to sea witchery is a reverence for the natural world, particularly the ocean and its ecosystems, with an emphasis on environmental stewardship and sustainability. Sea witches often perform rituals for protection, purification, healing, and empowerment, drawing upon the strength and resilience of the ocean.

Whether you're a beachcomber, a sailor, or simply a lover of the sea, Sea Magic invites you to dive deep into the mysteries of the ocean and explore the hidden realms that lie beneath the waves. So let the rhythm of the sea guide you, and may your magic flow as freely as the currents of the ocean! 🌊🐚

Books to Read:

Water Magic by Lilith Dorsey

The Sea Witch: A Grimoire of Ocean Magick by Jennifer Heather

Year of the Witch: Connecting with Nature's Seasons through Intuitive Magick by Temperance Alden

[fishcow99]

hazbin as life series(+some other mcyts)

mainly based off vibes, and also connecting watcher lore+some ships

Jimmy as Charlie

Scott as Vaggie

Grian as Alastor

BigB as Husk

Oli(orionsound) as Angel Dust

Tommyinnit as Nifty

Martyn as Lucifer

Cleo as Carmilla Carmine

Etho as Zestial

Bdubs as Sir Pentious

Skizz as Vox

Impulse as Velvette

Tango as Valentino (sorry tango)

Aimsey as Cherri Bomb

Sausage as Adam

Fwhip as Lute

Scar as Rosie

Samgladiator as Mimzy (no questions)

Pearl as Sera

Lizzie as Emily

Joel as St. Peter (fight me)

Ren as Lilith

[inconspicious-random-thoughts]

Do you think the Elders of Heaven will get involved in the story at some point? And if so, what role do you see them playing?

Hello ol'chum!

I assume by Elders of Heaven means the stereotypical Archangel lore.

We already have a few silhouettes.

We have these 6. I assume their Lucifer siblings. Which I am surprise isnt 7 as there can be "7 main archangels" It would also counterbalance the Sins of Hell

You have these other different angles at seem to be on par with Sera level...tho they appear to have less wings...so maybe lesser? The also seem to be in the court scene as well (and stood below Sera)

then we have these guys

While the middle has 6, and the others have 4. Maybe its their "true forms?"

It really depends how much run time if we get to be introduced to them beside a passing glance. . Assuming we continue to only get eight 25 mins episodes a season, it does dim the chance to see them. It's not a lot of runtime to cram everything in, while also no knowing how long the show run. So, the creators have to semi tie up arches and stories while leaving openings to continue the story.

We already have such large cast and the story takes place mostly in Hell, not Heaven So chances for more Angel characters to appear outside of Heaven are low . We are left with a few storylines that will connect next season. The Vees, Alastor quest to break his Deal as well trying to fulfill it, The Hotels and the residence own stories for character development, Lute and Lilith, (Possibly Adam?), And finally Emily/Sera/Sir Pentious. So there is already a lot going on with the characters we already know to add more. Plus the possibility of the characters that are on the backburner such as Baxter and Crymini, Also, I would like to see the other Sins come out to play beside Helluvah Boss.

If we are given a "You are preapproved for 7 seasons!" we would get to more characters come out to play. I would be very excited to see Hazbin take on the archangels.

BUT that said, It depends how the Heaven story lines goes with Lute and Sir Pentious. Are they going to be secret meetings about Sir Pentious redemption with the higher beings? Is Lute revenge going to be secret attack or is she going to stage a full attack? The latter would probably need the higher beings approval that would help introduce the archangels.

There are different amount of named archangels. 7-12+.

If we can't get multiple Archangels and only get to witness one, I believe it be Michael. Just guessing the creator want to loosely inspired by the bibical stories.

By the bible, Michael was the one that defeated Lucifer and casted him to from paradise. While, the show seem to have Lucifer merely accept his faith and fell, it doesn't mean that the show (and Lucifer) possibly telling was omitting a fight that would surely tramazited Lucifer that he had to fight his own brother. I don't think Lucifer one that would share and divulge much about his fall. I think he avoids talking about it.

Even, if we look pass that bit, The bible mention Michael battled Satan twice. I know in the show, there's a Sin Satan, and Lucifer as two people but in the bible they appear as one. So If we get an archangel appearance, I believe its Michael because who wouldn't watch the drama that will unfold between Lucifer and his brother, both being on opposing sides?

Also, Michael is a representation of courage, protection and cleansing...and that seem to line up with the whole extermination thing. Considering the Exorcist lost their general, we assume Lute would take that mantel but I wouldn't be surprised if Michael makes his appearance by stepping into the role to lead Heaven army for a big showdown.

Who I would like to see is Jeremiel because I think he would be hilarious. His role is to have a soul view their life and past to figure out lessons the soul was meant to learn from the experience. Help the soul understand the lessons, learn from their mistakes and see the "light" to make a change for the better. Sort of like like Scrooge and his three ghost from a Christmas Carol.

I can see this archangel being integrated to help Charlie's dream. Using his skills to help redeem souls.

Why I think he be a fun addition, is he supposed (I think in the show and cast to help sinners he may be flabbergasted and appalled a number of times...*coughcough AlastorCough*) to be non judgemental, he also meant to be brutally honest. (Which I think Charlie might chastise him over) He would have to show them their life on Earth but additionally their time in Hell. Which may lead Jeremiel to become queasy as soul in Hell are more deplorable than they were in Earth since there's less inhibitions.

I think it be entertaining to see him trying to show the light to someone like Alastor who probably see his "moral mistakes" as his greatest achievements and doesnt show regret over it. Alastor would view the events fondly. Alastor being greatly entertained to be able to view his carnage.

Some other Sinners also handle it with a great deal of scoffing with skepticism and defensensive but more or less, Jeremiel contributions works.

Other likely candidates who possibly make an appearance:

Mataron the highest of Angels and have direct contact with G(o)od. So, when they try to contact G(o)od, they would have go through Metaron. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a plot twist that G(o)od been absent and Mataron just been covering it up and its really him ruling Heaven as he tries to figure out their missing leader while keeping status quo. Oh! just thought of a drama filled! Roo already corrupted him, which may be why no one seem to hear from g(O)od.

Azrael. "Angel of Death". However he really isn't death, he just greatly associated to death as he escorts souls to their afterlife. Since he deals with death and souls transfer I can see how he can make a brief appearance. More so if he has a new course to ferries redeemed souls to Heaven (without them dying to complete their redemption)

Gabriel might be one. Only because he has a big name. I don't see typical roles fitting into the Hazbin universe much.

Raquel might come to play as a mediator or judge if there's more of a court type of storyline between Heaven and Hell. He meant to be unbiased and impartial while banishing disagreements while encouraging fairness. Chamuel might come to play alongside with Raquel. Chamuel being a sympathetic character who foster peace.

I be interested in any thoughts shared over this.

[chaifootsteps]

To the anon who said Lucifer cheated on Lilith in the message batch...

I don't think that's necessarily true. Yes, he said "Your first wife didn't seem to mind what I had to offer" (clearly sexual indicated by his hand gesture), but imo adding "or the second" was actually a reference to the apple/fruit of knowledge of good and evil that he wanted to rub in Adam's face (evil of him? Yes. Cheating? No). I understand that the tone can be confusing because they're one after the other, but I think that's the point.

The following story uses key characteristics of Lilith and Lucifer from the show (Lucifer not being evil, Lilith being all about free will):

Now...entertaining the thought that both Eve and Lilith were with Lucifer, I think this is actually not a cheating situation either. Imagine Lilith and Lucifer meeting in the garden and falling in love. Lucifer tells Lilith about his wild dreams of free will for humanity and that hits Lilith right in the feels, as someone who would desperately crave freedom. Freedom from Adam and his shitty behaviours, from God, from the picture perfect place that is Eden, where even if you throw a stone at someone, it probably turns to fluffy clouds or something.

Now, imagine the two witnessing the creation of Eve. They saw this woman that was made to live in subservience to someone so horrible (going off of the fact that Adam is show!Adam levels of douchebag, who thinks everything is his for the taking on the basis of being the first man), but unlike Lilith, Eve has no choice BUT to serve Adam. It's in her very fiber, she has no reason to deny divine ordainment because she doesn't know what free will even IS. So Lucifer and Lilith offered the fruit to Eve, both as a reason to offer free will to the whole of humanity, but also as a way to at least make Eve *aware* of her situation.

Now, I know that tehnically the two fell immediately after, but Vivzie doesn't care for Bible lore, so I'll allow me this innacuracy for the sake of this story. Eve learns about the difference between good and evil, free will and obedience and chooses to...not give Adam the fruit. She chooses to discover what she is capable of, what is this new thing that her body craves ("sins of the flesh") far away from him. She joins Lilith and Lucifer and the three have a romance together.

The first is overjoyed that she used her free will into putting herself first and also, for Lilith an absolute expression of free will would be sharing her love with more people, why should she be connected to only one person if she can offer so much more? Who decided that? Eve is, for the first time, treated as an equal, something to be cherished and adored and she's blossoming from that. Sure, grappling with her new awarness is so daunting, but she's having this amazing woman and an ANGEL by her side to support her. And Lucifer? He's just adoring these two women and the choices they're making, the things they're creating. For example, Lilith creates, for the first time, music! This was his dream for humanity and for a while, in the garden of Eden, the three are very happy.

Then one day Adam finds them and the rest is history. The two are separated from their beautiful Eve and sent to Hell. And now Eve has to live with an aggravated Adam...

Eve × Lilith × Lucifer has very interesting implications that Viv better stay FAR AWAY FROM, she'll have to pry this ship from my cold dead hands.

Yeah, that was my impression too. I don't know exactly what the mechanics of it were, just that everyone was on board and that Lucifer and Lilith probably went to town on Eve at the same time.

[rockanroller]

it just two episodes so I’m not really too harsh. Animation looks really good, but man no wonder this took 4-5 years they had 4 animation studios working on it plus bentos joint company princess bento that’s operates Australia. So you got bento+SH+toon city and princess bento yeah their budget got fucked

the writing drag this show and it’s so confusing. there’s 6 fucking minutes of exposition dump and lore in the first episode. This is not welcoming to newcomers, especially adult animation you never exposition the shit out the audience with a bedtime story unless you’re target demographic are kids. Character spend so much sitting on couches and talking about nothing. Adam and Valentino are the absolute worse characters but I think Valentino is more egregious since he was hyped so much and he was the biggest letdown and he’s voice is awful I’m sorry to VA.

So what is Charlie’s goal again? Is to fix overpopulation by redeeming demons and sending them to heaven? Give demons a second chance? Or make her mom proud, and empower demons through song? All of the above? Why send demons to heaven when her mom was all about rising above heaven? She is kinda annoying, I hate how stupidly naive and childish she is but I guess that her flaw and her development will be that she has to grow up, but I don’t want to do the writers job where you’re given nothing and have to fill in the blanks.

So Angel moved out but he still works for Valentino, but the show is making it seem like he quit and is hiding out in the hotel but is gonna return to Valentino soon? Why is so easy for Angel to leave and ignore Valentino? Oh wait I forgot it’s because Valentino is a fucking idiot, literally just Stella 2.0. I just hate everything that come out of Angels mouth I forgot how annoying being sexual doesn’t mean witty or confident and just because he’s a porn star doesn’t mean he has to always sexual harass men, and it’s not even the good flirty, it’s bad flirty, but I know they’re gonna go hard on his musical scenes.

I miss pilot Vaggie she still supported Charlie but was also very cautious and a bit controlling but it made her more interesting and flawed and set up dynamics her instead of just being supportive gf aka Millie 2.0. Husk was barely in the episodes, nifty and that cat thing are just there to be cute.

Vox and Vel are really entertaining but they put up with Valentino when be’s the dumbest and least incompetent out the trio and Vox hates being around him. He’s duet with alastor is really fun and kinda wish he had a show on these two than Charlie.

The music is alright not something I’d listen to on Spotify but it’s alright. Overall it was ok, there’s just no charm to it

yeah i agree with most of these points.

animation- shifts a lot between good and bad for me and i think that's mostly due to the over-designed characters, there have been problems keeping them on-model ever since the pilot, but like you say about it being hot-potatoed between 4-5 studios juggling it, it'd be no surprise the budget got fucked, and to me the studio juggling also checks out with how varied the animation is.

writing- agree, i only ever saw the hazbin pilot and occasionally learned tidbits of lore from the critical community and i was still sitting there clueless, i can only imagine what it's like for newcomers who don't even know a *little* of the lore/history.

Charlie's goal- "Why send demons to heaven when her mom was all about rising above heaven" is such a great point. Charlie's goals and motives were so confusing to me bc i didn't really see a connection. i guess you could say this is Charlie's way of continuing her mom's goal of "protecting our people" even tho Lilith seemed to be against Heaven while Charlie is trying to work with Heaven--but as i said previously Charlie also doesn't really seem to "like" her people, as we see her repeatedly show disgust or awkwardly try to laugh off her discomfort and only shows an endearing adoration when they're showing specific change/potential. It seems like she's just extremely naively optimistic, but bc of her aversion it comes off kinda disingenuous or fake nice? she legit seems to act more like a disillusioned church-goer who thinks they're helping you than a kind princess of hell who loves her subjects despite their "depravity" ig? and like you said maybe that'll be part of her character arc, but it def feels weird so far.

Angel & Valentino- yeah the entire dynamic with them is just weird. they're supposed to be a pimp and his prostitute, but why is Val texting/voicemailing Angel like a mopey ex? Val is allegedly supposed to be this big abusive threat but he's just kind of there, and Vox just calms him down really easily? and showing the affect his verbal abuse has on Angel felt so sudden/forced in (yeah those of us "familiar" w/their dynamic know it's there--this is considering the media as a new watcher, that's stuff you're supposed to write into a show for new audiences.) i'm back-and-forth on Angel's hypersexuality/sexual harassments of other male characters bc it's true some victims can act as he does, and it makes him more believable as an asshole in hell moreso than the others, but i also don't trust Viv to handle the complicated subject of abuse with grace / respect knowing her history, and i'm already worried after she had him say his body was "made for exploiting"

Pilot Vaggie- again with the disclaimer i barely remember the pilot; in the first 2 eps Vaggie was weird. idk how to feel about it. i know you said she seemed like 100% supportive Millie 2.0--but to me i couldn't get a full grip on their dynamic. it felt like it kind of swayed back and forth between full support and skeptical support but it all went by so fast i can't make a clear distinction, so you may be right.

The VVVs- agreed that Vox and Vel were entertaining. Val was just kinda there and seemed like neither Vox or Vel wanted anything to do with him, what do they get out of Val being there? does he bring them money or power or anything?? Vox and Vel are stronger characters on their own w/o Val having to be there imo.

Music- i honestly have like...no real opinion of the music. it didn't "wow" me, but it didn't necessarily make me cringe either. it just kinda was there and was fine. i honestly might've like...unintentionally mentally checked-out for some of them. i think Vox & Al's was *probably* the best--and i say that loosely bc, again, everything went by so fast--but it also had me kind of tilting my head like why does Al even care about dishing out "the tea" about this guy?

i *guess* making your big debut "i'm back" speech after being gone for 7 years right when someone is shit-talking you is a good power move, but it just felt oddly petty or "beneath" someone like Alastor to me--i think it would've made more sense if there was a bit in the song where Alastor took some callers on the radio who asked him what he thought about Vox and *then* he makes some casual remark about how little he means to him. idk, just my impression.

ty for sharing your two cents!

[sepublic]

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Obsessed with this and the subtle lore the animators might’ve given us for us Coven Head fans who are otherwise starved... 

Makes sense Terra is the eldest (save for possibly Scooter Crane), given her appearance and the flashback and all. But it also makes it doubly tragic how much faith she has in Belos’ regime, if she was one of his first supporters, as I’d guessed; No doubt because she’s cruel and ruthless enough that Belos can depend on her to enforce his prejudice simply for the sheer thrill of the power dynamic it gives her. She probably thanks Belos for getting her to the top when she was younger, and Terra is also proud of having been an OG fan, likely thinking there’s some meaningful emotional connection there... Only for there not to be.

Then we’ve got Osran, who’s also clearly old. Fitting. And Vitimir, who’s also elderly-looking, though I do headcanon he’s younger than he looks, and his appearance was ravaged due to exposing himself to chemicals in an attempt to reverse-engineer the Philosopher’s Stone; Like real life alchemists!

Next is Adrian. Tbh, I have to wonder if he’s used illusions to make himself look younger, but seeing as how he couldn’t bother to look nice for THE Day of Unity, probably not, but who knows? Maybe the grime is a layer built atop the youthful illusion. Makes me all the more curious about the timeline and his possible connection to Illusionists and the Looking Glass Graveyard becoming a secret, long enough ago to fall into disrepair.

Hettie Cutburn follows! Not much to say here, I guess she kinda looks young, but you can’t tell because of the full-body covering. One of the writers described her as like a murderous E-girl, so I guess she’s young enough to have the audience and know the technology that way. Or maybe not, because this ordering isn’t necessarily related to physical seniority, after all...

Up next is Mason! And he definitely looks a bit older, or maybe he didn’t age as well. But the implication seems that ‘seniority’ is defined by how long they’ve served the coven as a leader, rather than their actual age, so who can really tell for Hettie or others? Mason fits with what Dana Terrace herself confirmed (as OP pointed out in another tweet), that he’s one of the most recent coven heads, promoted at some point between Covention and The First Day.

And Mason is naturally followed by “Raine”, who was appointed within this season and is the very last in line! Darius and Eberwolf do admittedly mess up the order a bit, given they had to stay behind to collaborate with their fellow CATTs. But then again, I don’t think there’s anything definitively saying they were coven heads BEFORE Mason, so they might also be fairly recent promotions. 

In which case, I wonder if the two directly following each other has anything to do with their own rebellion, and a potential sabotage of previous coven heads with loyalty to Belos, being particularly nasty OG supporters like Terra when he was unpopular. The idea that Eberwolf literally and figuratively follows Darius here tracks with him trusting Darius’ guidance and possibly having been radicalized by him, so Eber becoming a coven head right after Deamonne is fitting.

EDIT: Someone reminded me that Darius was present at Hunter’s Golden Guard ceremony, and it seems Eberwolf was there too. While we only see Hunter as early as Agony of a Witch, Lilith’s dialogue does indicate she’s known him for a while, so Darius, Eber, and Hunter were likely running around before Mason’s promotion. So I guess the ordering is a bit messed up here for Doylist purposes, but otherwise...!