#acok bran iv

[the-boundless-sea]

a list of stark family moments and details i treasure 🫶

jon telling gilly she has a pretty name when they meet because sansa told him once that he should always tell a lady they have a pretty name upon being introduced (jon iii, acok)

robb sitting up with bran after he goes to bed, trying to cheer his little brother up after his fall by telling him how their mother will be home soon and after they'll do a surprise visit to jon in castle black

and bran realizing robb has started crying as he says this, and so taking on the role of comforter and reaching out to hold his big brother's hand as they sit in the dark (bran iv, agot)

robb being unable to resist correcting catelyn for leaving jon out when she says there were 'five wolves for five stark children' despite trying not to argue with her (catelyn ii, asos)

this acting as an echo of when they found the wolves and it initially appeared there were only five, and jon, arguing they should keep the pups to make bran happy, told ned it was a sign that there were five direwolves for five stark kids. even at 7-years-old, bran understands jon is leaving himself out of the count to make it match and loves his brother "with all his heart at that moment." (bran i, agot)

"he was no true stark, had never been one... but he could die like one. let them say that eddard stark fathered four sons, not three." - jon, as he attempts to leave the night's watch to join robb (jon ix, agot)

"mother. you forget my father had four sons. jon's more a stark than some lordlings from the vale who've never set eyes on winterfell." robb, as he legitimizes jon as a stark, names him his heir, and goes to release him from the night's watch (catelyn v, asos)

jon being so overjoyed when bran wakes up from his coma that he cries, hugs tyrion and runs around castle black telling random guards his brother is going to live (jon iii, agot)

arya and bran teaming up to ambush sansa with a dozen snowballs each and sansa retaliating by chasing arya throughout the castle until she tripped. arya stopping to make sure she wasn't hurt and throwing another snowball at her face when she isn't. sansa pulling arya to to the ground and covering her in snow while they both laugh the whole time.

sansa making a snow model of winterfell after reliving this memory because there's no point in snowballs without someone to throw them at. (sansa vii, asos)

everything about the story of jon and robb's ghost prank in the crypts. robb making sure they have one (1) candle about to flicker out. jon being covered in flour makes him a ghost. bran holding arya's hand and hiding behind robb. sansa just fucking taking off. arya's strategy being to punch a ghost into submission. jon and robb laughing so hard bran and arya can't even stay mad and start laughing too. the fact the entire reason it comes up is it's a memory that makes arya smile and feel brave. (arya iv, agot)

rickon being too young to understand why jon isn't sitting with them like he normally does when the king is visiting and holding up the procession when he sees jon sitting somewhere else. (jon i, agot) he keeps asking why jon isn't sitting with them throughout the feast. (bran iii, acok)

jon telling catelyn he doesn't care if she calls the guards on him, she can't stop him saying goodbye to bran.

robb being able to tell something is off with jon after this takes place, and gently asking if his mother said something and jon lying in response to smooth the situation out. (jon ii, agot)

bran wondering if direwolves miss their brothers and sisters too. (bran i, acok)

jon and robb climbing the towers at winterfell to practice shouting at one another after ned told them it's doesn't matter how brilliant a man is if his men can't hear his commands during a battle. (jon vii, asos)

arya thinking if she could see sansa again she'd kiss her and beg her pardons like a proper lady to make her happy. (arya vii, acok)

sansa, believing her younger brothers to be dead, thinks of how she'll name her sons eddard, bran, and rickon. she pictures them all looking like her "late" brothers and sometimes dreams they'll have a girl who looks like arya too. (sansa ii, asos)

when jon imagines leaving the night's watch, he thinks wistfully of having a son named robb. he also fantasizes gilly's son and mance's son would grow up as pseudo-twin brothers like him and robb (jon xii, asos)

the boys would all share a bed to stay warm whenever it got cold. i love to picture this after they got the direwolves so the humans and wolves are all in one big puppy pile. (jon vi, acok) jon also says he would lay up at night while his brothers slept next to him and make his plans to join the night's watch (jon i, agot), so in this mental picture i have all the other boys are dead asleep, while jon super seriously explains his plans to ghost at 3am.

whenever she's on the verge of reuniting with other family members, arya worries they won't want her anymore because of what she's had to do to survive. but when she thinks of reuniting with jon, she thinks "jon will want me. even if no one else does." (arya xii, asos)

bran, sansa, and arya all saying they have to be as brave or as strong as robb when they're hyping themselves up. (bran iv, asos; sansa iv, asos; arya ii, agot) jon dreaming of being "as good and true a son as robb." (jon x, asos) he's literally the golden standard for all his siblings.

robb's ghost showing up in both jon and arya's dreams, with neither one recognizing him (jon viii, asos; cat of the canals, affc)

bran being jealous of jon for thinking of the name ghost first for his direwolf because it sounds so cool while being so disdainful of rickon deciding to call his shaggydog. (bran ii, agot)

jon continuing to hope bran and rickon's consciousnesses live on in their direwolves when he believes them dead. (jon i, adwd; jon viii, asos)

bran wanting to be a wolf so he could find arya and sansa and protect robb in battle so they could all return to winterfell. (bran i, acok)

jon remembering how bran would always follow him and robb everywhere and try join in on whatever they were doing. (jon iii, agot)

rickon following robb everywhere and physically clinging to robb after their other siblings and parents are gone. robb arguing with catelyn over how scared and abandoned rickon feels with her gone. (catelyn iii, agot)

after bran wakes, rickon cries if robb's away more than half a day and asks bran when robb is coming back (bran iv, agot). when robb goes south, rickon melts down so much that he won't eat - he just screams and cries all day and attacks adults who try to comfort him. (bran vi, agot)

jon imagining both his sisters' reactions to seeing the beautiful morning frost at craster's. he pictures sansa crying from how magical it looks and arya running to touch everything he can. (jon iii, acok)

robb and jon's bickering devolving into a race where robb is laughing and hooting and jon is super serious and intent on winning, in a way that implies this is the norm for them. (bran i, agot)

not just summer, but shaggy and grey wind also howl in mourning when bran's in his coma. robb opens the window in bran's room so bran can "hear them sing." (catelyn iii, agot)

when bran hears the wolves howling again he worries it means somethings happened to one of his siblings. (bran i, acok)

jon and arya are so in tune they'd regularly speak in unison. (jon ii, agot; arya i, asos; arya i, acok; jon iii, agot)

jon and robb building a "great mountain" of snow to dump on whoever walks under the gate, even getting mance fucking rayder to be their accomplice, and then getting chased around the yard by their poor victim fat tom until their faces are "red as autumn apples." (jon i, asos)

rickon immediately asking if robb's coming home upon seeing a letter from him and upon being told no tells maester luwin to write robb back and tell him to come home and bring grey wolf and their parents back too. (bran v, acok)

the fact rickon specifically mentions he should bring grey wind back too, because we saw him playing with grey wind, summer, and shaggydog when his siblings were all gone or busy. they were basically his only friends for a time. (bran iv, agot)

when tyrion leaves to head back to winterfell, jon tells him that rickon will ask when he's coming back and to try explain it to him, and also adds to tell him he can have all his stuff while he's gone, which is just such cute little sibling thing, but also shows how even then jon thinks of the night's watch as being away; winterfell is still his home that he'll come back to one day.

he also tells tyrion to tell robb that he can melt down his sword and take up needlework because jon's going to command the night's watch and keep him safe. and of course, his pleas for tyrion to find a way to help bran are what lead tyrion to give bran his new saddle. (jon iii, agot)

despite his mistrust of tyrion and the lannisters, robb offers to let tyrion stay at winterfell after he sees how much his gift means to bran. (bran iv, agot)

robb no longer believing the direwolves were sent by the old gods after bran and rickon were believed dead, because what was the point of a gift from the gods if it didn't keep his brothers safe? (catelyn ii, asos)

bran going to the godswood to pray that robb doesn't have to leave and then adding if he does to have to leave to make it so he comes home with their sisters and parents and that rickon will understand what's happening. (bran vi, agot)

when jon and sansa remember robb after his death they both picture him with snowflakes melting in his hair, the way he was when they left winterfell. (jon xiii, adwd; sansa viii, asos)

when seeing sam off, the last thing jon says is for sam to put his hood up because the snow's melting in his hair, and sam notes the strange smile on his face when he says it. (samwell i, affc)

bran arguing lord hornwood's son out of wedlock should be named his heir, thinking of jon. (bran ii, acok)

robb being so upset when catelyn compares jon to theon that grey wind hops onto the crypt and bares his teeth at her. (catelyn v, asos)

jon wondering if ever really had any right to call arya his sister, saying he was as out of place as theon at winterfell. (jon iii, asos)

just... the contrast of jon thinking about sansa, and how since she became old enough to understand what a bastard is she's only ever referred to him as her "half-brother", but he misses her anyways... and sansa missing jon while living as alayne, calling him the only brother that remains to her and thinking "i'm a bastard too now, just like him." (jon iii, agot; alayne ii, affc)

robb also calling jon the only brother who remains to him. arya calling jon the only brother she has left. (catelyn v, asos; arya xii, asos)

rickon crying and refusing to leave bran until he's physically forced off. (bran vii, acok)

every word of this sentence shatters me: "every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; snow and stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see." (jon xii, asos)

ok now the angsty part

like! jon is having this flashback because he feels guilty and conflicted over stannis's offer to legitimize him and name him heir to winterfell, never knowing that's exactly what robb wanted.

(jon xii, asos)

(catelyn v, asos)

he keeps remembering robb calling him a bastard as a mental chastisement for daring to put himself on their level, but one of robb's very last acts on earth was to name him jon stark!! bran wanted lord hornwood's illegitimate son to be allowed to succeed him because of jon!! jon doesn't think he counts as arya's brother. but he's the one she misses the most, the only one whose unconditional love she never doubts!! jon!!!

(jon xi, asos)

and yet! despite all the shame and guilt, the thing that ultimately stops him from accepting stannis's offer is his belief that the old gods sent the stark siblings their direwolves, and he can't betray his family's gods! that's what makes his decision, above all else!

(jon xii, asos)

[goodqueenaly]

Why would Theon think that faking Bran and Rickon’s death would be a good idea? He has no idea where they were headed or to whom they might reveal themselves. It’s even said in Theon’s chapter of the search that if they made it to a village, all the people would rally behind the boys. Wouldn’t it make Theon look even more a fool if they showed up alive to Ser Roderick before Ramsey burns Winterfell, but after he killed the miller’s boys? I know Ramsey takes advantage of his desperation under the guise of Reek, but I think even Theon would have been skeptical that the plan would actually work. What is your take on this?

To understand Theon in “Theon IV” ACOK is to examine the simultaneous ego and desperation of a man clinging to a self-made fantasy which is actively crumbling in front of his eyes. Every way Theon turns, literally and figuratively, is wrong - and critically, he has no one to blame but himself. Yet unable to admit how thoroughly he’s ruined the situation, Theon doubles down when it comes to how to handle Bran and Rickon’s disappearance, choosing yet another terrible option in a vain hope of making up for all his other awful choices. 

Theon’s great anxiety in this chapter is what to do about the missing Stark boys - but Theon, being ACOK Theon, only thinks of how he believes this dilemma affects him personally. His first thought upon learning the wolves are gone is to worry what would happen “if [Asha] learns that I have lost the Starks” - a thought so terrible to Theon that he concludes “[i]t did not bear thinking about”. Theon later underscores his fear of embarrassment at the hands of his family, deciding that he’d “sooner have them [i.e: Bran and Rickon] dead” than unconsciously running to Asha at Deepwood Motte, as in Theon’s mind “[i]t is better to be seen as cruel than foolish”. As Theon’s hunt continues with no sign of the boys, Theon ruefully realizes that “[e]very passing hour increased the likelihood that they would make good their escape”, that “[t]he people of the north would never deny Ned Stark’s sons, Robb’s brothers” and “[t]he whole bloody north would rally around them”. Once night begins to fall, Theon’s fear of both crystallizes: knowing that “[i]f he crept back to Winterfell empty-handed, he might as well dress in motley henceforth and wear a pointed hat”, since “the whole north would know him for a fool”, Theon can only contemplate with dread “And when my father hears, and Asha …. [sic]”

Unfortunately for Theon, all the poor choices he’s made up to this point only exacerbate his problem. Because Theon decided to take Winterfell with a bare handful of men, he did not have the spare guards to ensure Bran and Rickon did not slip away. Because Theon seized Winterfell by force, its household sees him only as a usurper and betrayer of his foster brothers; likewise, because Theon has treated the people of Winterfell abominably, no one lifts a finger to intervene in Theon’s plan to hunt them down (until Theon has to literally threaten Farlen with the continued rape of his daughter to get him to comply). Too cruel and despicable to be a successful conqueror-turned-protector, yet too vain about his own momentary victory to abandon it in a typical ironborn lightning raid, Theon’s only advantage had been the fact that he held the Stark boys as hostages - an advantage that had seemingly literally disappeared into thin air.

Theon has put himself in a position where he has no good - which is to say, beneficial to his egotistical fantasy - options. He knows that he cannot realistically recapture the Stark boys, and that every hour that passes makes it more likely (so he believes) the Starks will be out of his grasp forever, and in the helpful hands of anti-ironborn northern neighbors. However, Theon also believes that he cannot return to Winterfell empty-handed, lest he become the laughingstock of his sister, his father, the castle’s household, and the whole North. Stuck in the wolfswood, Theon is as lost as Farlen’s hounds, unwilling either to concede defeat or continue on what is increasingly proving a fruitless search.

This is where Ramsay-as-Reek serves, to quote the late great Steven Attewell, as the devil on Theon’s shoulder, apparently offering him an easy (if no less detestable for it) answer to his problem. Killing the miller’s boys solves what Theon sees as his immediate problem; he can both give up the hunt and go back to Winterfell without being empty-handed, giving (so he thinks) no grounds for his father or Asha to complain. Pretending to have killed Bran and Rickon allows Theon to continue to the fantasy of conquest that began with his moonlit capture of Winterfell: he can spout pompous self-justifications like “Mercy was for this morning … [b]efore they made me angry” and “They defied me!” In answer to Luwin’s pleas and Asha’s criticisms. 

Putting aside how evil this action is on its own, of course, Theon’s decision does not actually solve his problem, as you note. Yet that is precisely the point: obsessed with the idea of successfully taking Winterfell in a daring raid, Theon has no idea from the first how he is going to hold it, nor indeed what the consequences of any of his actions there might be. Caring only about what can fix the problem directly in front of him, Theon simply seizes the solution preferred by Ramsay-as-Reek as a way out of what he saw as a personally humiliating situation. Worries about how he’s going to defend Winterfell from the increasing combined forces marching on his mostly undefended walls, or whether Bran and Rickon might turn up later, or whether anyone within Winterfell has a death wish for him, are not at the forefront of Theon’s mind in that moment; he only wants to get out of the wolfswood, literally and metaphorically, and the bodies of the innocent miller’s boys let him do that.

[eruherdiriel]

I don't think I can do justice to how the ACoK Catelyn III - Sansa III - Catelyn IV chapter sequence makes me feel but I want to ramble about it. It's like a hug around Sansa, who is beaten by the kingsguard in her chapter. Her mother cannot actually stop what is happening in the moment, nor does she know the specifics, but she does want Sansa (& Arya) out of KL. And just as Cat can't get to her daughters, she can't get Renly and Stannis to stop fighting in those chapters. The negotiations fail and then she watches Stannis's shadow kill Renly. There's so much in her storyline that is out of her control: Bran getting hurt, Ned dying, her father dying, Lysa's mental decline, Robb's choices as king, the fate of her daughters.

But. She does save Brienne at the end of Catelyn IV. This is a teenage girl she barely knows, serving a different king, and Catelyn saves her from likely death. All because she knows it's the right thing to do because Brienne did not kill Renly. There is no agenda to it in the moment, and yet Brienne goes on to dedicate herself to rescuing Sansa and Arya (& then Sansa again when she is not in KL) by bringing Jaime to KL. She hasn't yet but she could still succeed (& ironically has to get past a vengeful LSH to do it), and that is the closest Catelyn can come to being able to save one of her family members. She saved the knight who will save her daughters.

[mothers-mercy]

She knelt before the Mother. “My lady, look down on this battle with a mother’s eyes. They are all sons, every one. Spare them if you can, and spare my own sons as well. Watch over Robb and Bran and Rickon. Would that I were with them.”

Catelyn IV, ACOK

[vivacissimx]

Theon's choice not to visit Alannys was not a choice

Cannot believe it took this long for me to get around to this meta—also, feel free to read my whole spiel about Theon's father figures in Ned, Balon, and Roose here, because it does inform my view.

OK, Alannys Harlaw hours.

The conception of Theon's motivations in the situation where he does not go to see his mother when he returns to the Islands is a bit harsh on Theon. It ignores that Theon has not been avoiding Alannys all these years: he has been kept from her. Theon's access to her has always been controlled by the NedBalons in his life.

I want to get into the idea that this is not happenstance. That Theon's father figures control his access to his mother, which is not even a novel concept in ASOIAF. Jon Snow, who is Theon's foil, also has access to his mother restricted by—woah! Ned Stark as well!! (And both Jon and Theon are expected to be grateful for this too.)

Theon's homecoming to Pyke does not result in him rushing triumphant as the prodigal son into his loving mother's arms because in fact Alannys is not even on Pyke (though Theon thought she would be). Nope, it's Theon's suspicious, resentful, and yes "homophobic" uncle as well as father who Theon meets. From here it is just assumed that Theon has perfect access to Alannys, and that him not hopskipping over to Harlaw is purely his preference. (Are you catching on to the idea that I disagree with this, yet?)

Getting into Theon as a character & how he acts under suspicious/mistrustful eyes:

As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark's stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious. [ACOK, Theon I]

-

“What I am about to tell you must not leave this room,” she told them. “I want your oaths on that. If even part of what I suspect is true, Ned and my girls have ridden into deadly danger, and a word in the wrong ears could mean their lives.” “Lord Eddard is a second father to me,” said Theon Greyjoy. “I do so swear.” [AGOT, Catelyn III]

-

Ned turned back to his wife. “Once you are home, send word to Helman Tallhart and Galbart Glover under my seal. They are to raise a hundred bowmen each and fortify Moat Cailin. Two hundred determined archers can hold the Neck against an army. Instruct Lord Manderly that he is to strengthen and repair all his defenses at WhiteHarbor, and see that they are well manned. And from this day on, I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father’s fleet.” [AGOT, Eddard IV]

Theon knows he is not trusted in Winterfell. Catelyn including Theon in this circle of ooh secrets is mostly due to the fact that Robb physically brought him & also because she knows that Theon does not really even have the ability to betray her on this front. He definitely knows that. Ned does not have a paternal relationship with Theon & does not perceive himself as Theon's father any more than Theon believes he is Ned's son (in the manner that Robb or Bran or even Jon is), so why does Theon lie here?

HE IS OVERPERFORMING HIS COMMITMENT TO THE PATRIARCH FIGURE IN WHOSE HANDS HIS LIFE/FUTURE LIES.

Theon predicates his vow to Catelyn with an affirmation of his willingness to do service to Ned, and in fact that's what his access to her relies on. That's probably why he makes such a production of incessantly flirting with her too; because of how it implies he is in Ned and later Robb's good graces! Of course AGOT Theon is also just a flirt for the purposes of producing his masculinity in general. But does anyone really disagree? Moving on.

The door was grey wood studded with iron, and Theon found it barred from the inside. He hammered on it with a fist, and cursed when a splinter snagged the fabric of his glove. The wood was damp and moldy, the iron studs rusted. After a moment the door was opened from within by a guard in a black iron breastplate and pothelm. "You are the son?" "Out of my way, or you'll learn who I am." [ACOK, Theon I]

(Even the damn door is in on it LOL)

Theon knelt. He had a purpose here, and might need Aeron's help to achieve it. A crown was worth a little mud and horseshit on his breeches, he supposed.

-

He was playing the part of a dutiful young prince for the moment, while he waited for Lord Balon to reveal the fullness of his plans. [ACOK, Theon II]

-

"My father gave me the command here, Uncle." "And sent me to counsel you." And to watch me. Theon dare not push matters too far with his uncle. The command was his, yes, but his men had a faith in the Drowned God that they did not have in him, and they were terrified of Aeron Damphair. [ACOK, Theon III]

THEON IS PERFORMING FOR BALON. His father doesn't approve of him and Theon is playing the part. He is making every overture and concession to obedience, or piety, that is asked of him. Balon, Aeron, Asha, even Victarion make sure he knows when he's failing—whether it's with an express disapproval or just a knowing laugh. Theon notes all of this because due to how he was raised he's extremely perceptive of how those with power over him regard him.

And Balon does not criticize Theon for not visiting Alannys.

"Will I find my sister and my lady mother at Pyke?" "You will not. [ACOK, Theon I]

-

Harlaw is only a day’s sail, and surely Lady Greyjoy yearns for a last sight of her son.” “Would that I could. I am kept too busy here. My father relies on me, now that I am returned. Come peace, perhaps...” [ACOK, Theon II]

Theon visiting his mother is not reliant on his own self-motivation, but on whether or not Balon grants him access to her. This is not to say Balon expressly forbade it or that there would have been any direct consequences if Theon had gone over... but it's about goodwill, not permission! What else changes between Theon asking about Alannys when he returns to Pyke and when he explicitly tells Asha that he can't go see her because Balon, because war? Simple: he needs to prove himself to his father as loyal and strong first. To make it explicit, Ned & Robb allowed Theon access to Catelyn in the same manner that Balon refuses (or, at the least, disapproves of) Theon's access to Alannys. Theon is sensitive to this disapproval and does not push the matter.

The only person who pushes Theon to go to Alannys is Asha. Asha obviously has Balon's trust, though, and it could be said she takes it for granted. Asha's level of understanding of Theon is complex; she recognizes him but she doesn't know him. When she says this:

You are blood of my blood, Theon, whatever else you may be. For the sake of the mother who bore us both, return to Deepwood Motte with me. [ACOK, Theon V]

it's actually wild how much is packed in here. For the sake of the mother who bore us both: Theon doesn't yet have the right to Alannys or even know how she'd receive him, given his other receptions on Pyke. Return to Deepwood Motte: the castle Theon believes he should have been tasked with taking above Asha, a concrete proof of his father's mistrust in him, which amongst other reasons spurs on his taking on Winterfell to begin with.

Personally I think Theon as a symbol of Balon's failed rebellion does make him, in Balon's eyes, also a symbol of his failed marriage. Theon does not confirm Baelon's masculinity as a son should, as Asha does. He is a reminder of the ways in which Balon lacks.

I also believe that Theon ~misses his mother, FWIW. He thinks back to his childhood sleeping in the Sea Tower while on his way to Pyke which is a mommy-coded memory; he expects to sleep in his old chambers again when he returns to Pyke—both that and his expectation of seeing Alannys are swiftly disabused. He will not be slipping into his old roles, Theon learns through the reunion with Balon which is violent in more ways than one. It's interesting because Theon actually expects to have to prove himself to his father (which is why he comes armed with a plan for taking Casterly Rock) but he doesn't expect to be punished for having been held hostage all these years.

If we are indulging in symbolism, though:

Above the Sea Tower snapped his father's banner. The Myraham was too far off for Theon to see more than the cloth itself, but he knew the device it bore: the golden kraken of House Greyjoy, arms writhing and reaching against a black field. The banner streamed from an iron mast, shivering and twisting as the wind gusted, like a bird struggling to take flight. And here at least the direwolf of Stark did not fly above, casting its shadow down upon the Greyjoy kraken. [ACOK, Theon I]

The Sea Tower where Theon's childhood memories & hopes for return to his family lie is dominated by his father's banner. At least it's Balon Greyjoy and not Ned Stark, Theon tells himself. Yet the result is the paralleled, mirrored, as Balon and Ned often are with Theon: under Ned's control Theon can't see Alannys because he is Balon Greyjoy's son, while under Balon's control Theon is discouraged from seeing Alannys because he isn't son enough. Perhaps Theon does prioritize the goodwill of his patriarch because he views it as an essential ingredient to his survival and success... but he's also absolutely aware of the role the wife/mother/lady/queen plays in the whole arena too. As power, as leverage. It's pretty plain when you consider that he tells Barbrey she could claim leadership over the North if she so desired. He took such pleasure in being relatively intimate with Catelyn as well.

So, he knows. Yet they're still all held above his head like a little treat. Delicious.

[ladystoneboobs]

[Bran, to Theon:]“But you’re Father’s ward.” [Theon, to Bran:]“And now you and your brother are my wards. [...] You’ll tell them how you’ve yielded Winterfell to me, and command them to serve and obey their new lord as they did the old.” -Bran VI, aCoK “He[Ramsay] is a great hunter,” said Wyman Manderly, “and women are his favorite prey. He strips them naked and sets them loose in the woods. They have a half day’s start before he sets out after them with hounds and horns. From time to time some wench escapes and lives to tell the tale. Most are less fortunate. When Ramsay catches them he rapes them, flays them, feeds their corpses to his dogs, and brings their skins back to the Dreadfort as trophies. If they have given him good sport, he slits their throats before he skins them. Elsewise, t’other way around.” -Davos IV, aDwD [Roose, to Theon, about Ramsay's mother:]"[...]I was hunting a fox along the Weeping Water when I chanced upon a mill and saw a young woman washing clothes in the stream. The old miller had gotten himself a new young wife, a girl not half his age. She was a tall, willowy creature, very healthy-looking. Long legs and small firm breasts, like two ripe plums. Pretty, in a common sort of way. The moment that I set eyes on her I wanted her. Such was my due. [...] This miller’s marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day." -Reek(/Theon) III, aDwD

something something the way theon tries to rectify his childhood trauma by taking his captor's place as lord of wf and taking ned's younger sons as his "wards"/hostages, while ramsay repeatedly reenacts different versions of his own conception by hunting and raping peasant women. except theon fails in his role reversal when (unlike him in his own captivity at wf) bran and rickon escape custody. and ramsay enhances roose's "dismal day" by killing all the women he catches to prevent any more bolton bastards and further punishing those of them who fail to give him "good sport" (which his mother apparently did not give roose) while those who do satisfy him are "honored" with a quick death (and a canine namesake). and then the consequences of theon's failure to replace his captor/cold noerthern father figure include losing wf to house bolton and becoming the new "reek"/another of ramsay's dogs. (meaning he made himself ramsay's prey but gave him "good sport" in the experience)

ramsay starts out as deceptive dark trickster figure/evil adviser/devil on theon's shoulder in clash but he's also a dark mirror of theon, and a more successful one at that, not just better suited to villainy but more able to get away with his crimes. neither will ever be truly accepted by their fathers but ramsay is made heir once he's the only son while theon is rejected as such despite his better birth. ramsay profits from the alleged kinslaying of his actual brother by blood, while theon is more openly condemned (and seen as still not punished enough) for (falsely) killing stark boys who were never his actual kin. it's almost as if ramsay is an evil force who came into being to find theon and was drawn to him upon his return to the north. we first learn of the bastard of bolton's existence after theon returns to pyke and learns of his father's invasion plans, then his last hunt with the original reek just shortly precedes the ironborn attacks, all so that he's captured and waiting in wf right in time for theon's real plan to go into action, and we don't actually meet (disguised) ramsay in-person through dialogue with rodrik cassell or any other northerner but only when theon arrives as the new lord to free him from the dungeon. as the first reek may have corrupted ramsay, ramsay-as-reek corrupts theon. reek belongs to ramsay and ramsay belongs to reek.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

In your opinion, is Catelyn Stark a warm person? Or, at least to people who she isn’t particularly close with, do you think she comes across as cold in many of her interactions? Genuinely curious what you think

Instances of Catelyn being warm to strangers/people she doesn’t know well:

Wanted to bury/put under a cairn the men killed in her service from an attack by the mountain clans, saying they deserved better than to be carrion, and wanted the gods to forgive her when told they had to keep moving. —AGOT Tyrion IV

Personally gave each of the oarsmen on the Storm Dancer a silver stag (and a copper to those who carried her to the inn) because she feared Captain Tumitis might want to keep the money for himself. —AGOT Catelyn IV

Asked Mya Stone about “her love” Mychel Redfort, and smiled at her dream of marrying him even though she knows the class difference makes it impossible. —AGOT Catelyn VI

Tried to talk down armored knights from killing Brienne, helped distract Emmon by braining him with a brazier during the duel, taking her with her escort to Riverrun to avoid being killed by Renly’s men, then convincing Brienne not to throw her life away to seek Stannis immediately. This was after one conversation and just feeling Brienne was innocent of Renly’s death. —ACOK Catelyn IV&V

Making sure the Silent Sisters are provided with fresh horses and guards to escort Ned’s bones to Winterfell. —ACOK Catelyn V

Despite her own sadness and misgivings on them being there, allowed Desmond Grell to break open wine casks and for the smallfolk to have a party following the victory at Stone Mill. —ACOK Catelyn VI

Tried to comfort Jeyne Westerling as Robb is getting more distant, telling her about how the Starks belong to the Old Gods, despite not approving of the marriage. —ASOS Catelyn III

Tried to comfort Lynesse Hightower’s despair at how out-of-place she felt at Bear Island by relating her own experience as a southerner with a Northern husband. —ASOS Catelyn V

Strangers to whom Catelyn is courteous (not necessarily warm, but not rude either):

Ser Donnel Waynwood, asking for Maester Colemon to treat Rodrik’s wounds —AGOT Catelyn VI

Ser Vardis Egen, trying to prevent the Vale lords from executing Tyrion —AGOT Catelyn VII

Lord Walder Frey, asking to open the gates for Robb’s men to cross— AGOT Catelyn IX

Margaery Tyrell, saying she was kind to console her for Ned’s death—ACOK Catelyn II

Robar Royce, for escorting her to and from a Bitterbridge Sept —ACOK Catelyn IV

Times when Catelyn was cold/sharp/snappish to people she doesn’t know well:

When Petyr Baelish has her summoned to a tower in the middle of the night by the City Watch, after not seeing her for years —AGOT Catelyn IV

When Tyrion insinuated she had slept with Petyr Baelish. —AGOT Tyrion IV

When Tyrion boasts of Lannister pride, considering she thinks he killed her son at the time. —AGOT Catelyn VI

When Jaime snarks that he doesn’t have her brother, father, and daughters (all in Lannister hands at the time) around, after he’s been captured —AGOT Catelyn X

When Randall Tarly insinuates Robb is less than a man for not coming to parley himself, she sharply protests that Robb is fighting in a war and not a tourney —ACOK Catelyn II

When Stannis and Renly refuse to put their quarrel aside and fight the Lannisters together. —ACOK Catelyn II

When Martyn Rivers tells her that Robb fed Stafford Lannister’s heart to Grey Wind. —ACOK Catelyn V

When Jaime admits to pushing Bran out of a window and insults Ned’s honor. —ACOK Catelyn VII

When she tells Roose about the accusations (rape, murder) against Ramsay. —ASOS Catelyn VI

From these instances I’ve collected, I can conclude that Catelyn is warm to strangers who have helped her, who she sees herself/her family in, or who are innocent and need comfort. She is courteous to strange lords in their own territories when she needs something from them (crossing bridges, medical care), or out of common politeness when they haven’t been rude before. She is cold to people she doesn’t know well who insult her family or have done them harm, gloss over atrocities they/their underlings have committed, or when courtesy has failed and she’s trying to remind them of the larger picture. The interactions with those she does know well (Edmure, Ned, Rodrik, Blackfish, Hoster, Lysa, Robb, Theon) have more dimensions, ranging from affectionate to disappointed to appalled; and she admits she might be too harsh with Edmure or Robb at times, which causes them to freeze her out (ASOS Catelyn V), or that since they’re kings/lords now, she can’t be as openly affectionate (AGOT Catelyn VIII). But I don’t think she comes across any colder than most people when interacting with strangers: she’s kind to those who help/need comfort, polite but reserved according to normal circumstances, and cold when a person is actively hostile to her/her family.

[ilynpilled]

ACoK - Bran VII

ADwD - Daenerys II

ASoS - Jaime IX

AFfC - Brienne VII

AFfC - Samwell IV

AGoT - Jon VIII

“asoiaf is nihilistic and grimdark” absolutely not.

[silverflameataraxia]

She hated the way he talked, always so harsh and angry. "Does it give you joy to scare people?"

- Sansa IV, ACoK

I'm sorry, but what? Sansa hates how Sandor is always so harsh and angry?

Let's give a brief recap of just one of Sansa's interactions with Arya, shall we?

It was running down her nose and stinging her eyes. Sansa wiped it away with a napkin. When she saw what the fruit in her lap had done to her beautiful ivory silk dress, she shrieked again. "They should have killed you instead of Lady!"

Sansa threw her head back in disdain. "You?" You couldn't sew a dress fit to clean the pigsties."

"It won't be so bad, Sansa," Arya said. "We're going to sail on a galley. It will be an adventure, and then we'll be with Bran and Robb again, and Old Nan and Hodor and the rest." She touched her on the arm.

"Hodor!" Sansa yelled. "You ought to marry Hodor, you're just like him, stupid, and hairy and ugly!" She wrenched away from her sister's hand, stormed into her bedchamber, and barred the door behind her.

And this brief moment between the sisters doesn't even compare to the years of Sansa calling Arya ugly and stupid, being ashamed of her appearance, wishing she was a bastard like Jon, wishing Sansa could have someone else as her sister, and looking down on Arya's friends because they're commoners.

[esther-dot]

why do u think grrm smiled and said "doesn't it?" when a fan asked if lady’s death meant that sansa had ceased to be a stark?

I couldn't find an official source for this quote, it popped up on Reddit in a few places, but it looks like this is the source for it:

We've had these debates before about whether Sansa's actions truly resulted in her losing her wolf and father. And whether losing Lady symbolized her ceasing to be a true Stark. In fact, we've had this debate in front of GRRM twice. The first time was in St Louis in 2001 while at dinner. GRRM let us debate, smiling and nodding here and there. He also told us why he created Sansa in the first place, because there is always someone in a family that the others don't get along with. He was a bit coy in answering our questions but in the end he did indicate that Sansa did have responsibility for Lady's and Ned's deaths. I reported this to the board and I recall it being dismissed by some. I distinctly recall someone saying, "Well what I think he really meant to say was..." The second time we had this discussion was in Indy in 2007. There was a boarder there that didn't believe that Sansa's losing Lady symbolized her not being a Stark anymore. The person said so in front of GRRM and GRRM smiled and said, "Doesn't it?" (link)

When they say he smiled, was Martin merely smiling to be nice in a social situation? Was he laughing at them for missing the point? Was he happy that one person understood what he had written? I don't think this description really tells me enough to know what to make of Martin's intent. Presenting a question to someone is about forcing them to think, not necessarily a Statement of your own beliefs, it also can be used to deflect/provide a non-answer, and that seems to be the case here. That post doesn't tell me much at all, tbh, certainly not enough to make me question what did or did not happen in the books.

Is your attention being drawn to some culpability on Sansa's part in these passages?

They were all staring at him, but it was Sansa's look that cut. "She is of the north. She deserves better than a butcher." He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur. Shortly, Jory brought him Ice. (AGOT, Eddard III)

So he listened, and she told it all, from the fire in the library tower to Varys and the guardsmen and Littlefinger. And when she was done, Eddard Stark sat dazed beside the table, the dagger in his hand. Bran's wolf had saved the boy's life, he thought dully. What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's, and for what? Was it guilt he was feeling? Or fear? If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done? (AGOT, Eddard IV)

If Martin wanted to write the blame on Sansa, he could have. Instead, he emphasizes Sansa and Lady's innocence, their trusting nature, how they were betrayed:

Sansa begs for Lady as she begs for herself, but it is futile. These words: “She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting” (AGOT, Eddard III) may just as easily have been written about Sansa. Lady calmly looks up at Ned never expecting that he would kill her, and Sansa believed Joffrey’s promise to spare Ned. Both Lady and Sansa’s trust was used against them: “Once she had loved Prince Joffrey with all her heart, and admired and trusted his mother, the queen. They had repaid that love and trust with her father's head. Sansa would never make that mistake again.” (ACOK, Sansa I) Ned looked into Lady’s eyes and killed her, Joffrey looked into Sansa’s eyes and took Ned’s head. Is the point that Lady was stupid for trusting Ned, or that Ned was wrong to take an innocent life, to participate in an unjust act? That Robert was wrong for commanding it? Is the point that Sansa is stupid? Or that Joffrey and Cersei wronged her? (link)

So, I don't know what to say about what that conversation with Martin, I don't know what preceded his response or followed it. I only know what he wrote in the books, and imo, it isn't what the poster believes it to be. Instead of Martin saying Sansa is less of Stark, I think he has taken pains to associate Sansa and the North, not merely through her longing to return home, her love of the cold and snow, her scene of rebuilding Winterfell, the prophecy of her returning North and exacting justice for all of LF's crimes against her family, but also through what her she endures:

People who say that need to contrast the thrill of reading this:  "The King in the North!" "The King in the North!" "THE KING IN THE NORTH!" (AGOT, Catelyn XI) with this "The gown had long sleeves to hide the bruises on her arms. Those were Joffrey's gifts as well. When they told him that Robb had been proclaimed King in the North, his rage had been a fearsome thing, and he had sent Ser Boros to beat her." (ACOK, Sansa I) The author wrote the birth of the independent North in bruises on her skin. Martin tied Sansa to the North's fate but instead of giving her the glory, he made her pay for it. While Robb and the North fight on a battlefield, it is Sansa’s body men seek to claim in order to secure the North. (link)

I think Sansa will have great importance to House Stark and the North in the future, her freedom will align with theirs, and I'm not sure why Cersei being evil and Robert being a weak, unjust king, is Sansa's fault. And, it will always fascinate me that so many fans have read this passage:

"Surely you did not think I'd forgotten about your sweet innocent, my lord? The queen most certainly has not." "No," Ned pleaded, his voice cracking. "Varys, gods have mercy, do as you like with me, but leave my daughter out of your schemes. Sansa's no more than a child." "Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar's daughter. A precious little thing, younger than your girls. She had a small black kitten she called Balerion, did you know? I always wondered what happened to him. Rhaenys liked to pretend he was the true Balerion, the Black Dread of old, but I imagine the Lannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough, the day they broke down her door." Varys gave a long weary sigh, the sigh of a man who carried all the sadness of the world in a sack upon his shoulders. "The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that's true, Lord Eddard, tell me … why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen. And spare a thought for this as well: The next visitor who calls on you could bring you bread and cheese and the milk of the poppy for your pain … or he could bring you Sansa's head. (AGOT, Eddard XV)

only to walk away from AGOT thinking that the author wants us to blame Sansa for the things she has suffered.

[agentrouka-blog]

I was wondering if Bran ever think of Sansa? And how much? Because I mostly see people talking about Arya when they discuss Sansa and her siblings.

Actually, he's the sibling with the most compassionate and softest thoughts about her, safe Jon. :)

He doesn't think about her a ton, because he's an unruly little boy whose society encourages this kind of thinking:

Bran had been left behind with Jon and the girls and Rickon. But Rickon was only a baby and the girls were only girls and Jon and his wolf were nowhere to be found.  (AGOT, Bran II)

But when he does, he demonstrates an ability to understand her and feel compassion far beyond what Robb is capable of:

When the raven came, bearing a letter marked with Father's own seal and written in Sansa's hand, the cruel truth seemed no less incredible. Bran would never forget the look on Robb's face as he stared at their sister's words. "She says Father conspired at treason with the king's brothers," he read. "King Robert is dead, and Mother and I are summoned to the Red Keep to swear fealty to Joffrey. She says we must be loyal, and when she marries Joffrey she will plead with him to spare our lord father's life." His fingers closed into a fist, crushing Sansa's letter between them. "And she says nothing of Arya, nothing, not so much as a word. Damn her! What's wrong with the girl?" Bran felt all cold inside. "She lost her wolf," he said, weakly, remembering the day when four of his father's guardsmen had returned from the south with Lady's bones. Summer and Grey Wind and Shaggydog had begun to howl before they crossed the drawbridge, in voices drawn and desolate. Beneath the shadow of the First Keep was an ancient lichyard, its headstones spotted with pale lichen, where the old Kings of Winter had laid their faithful servants. It was there they buried Lady, while her brothers stalked between the graves like restless shadows. She had gone south, and only her bones had returned. (AGOT, Bran IV)

He wants to save her and Arya.

"Bran, child, why do you torment yourself so? One day you may do some of these things, but now you are only a boy of eight." "I'd sooner be a wolf. Then I could live in the wood and sleep when I wanted, and I could find Arya and Sansa. I'd smell where they were and go save them, and when Robb went to battle I'd fight beside him like Grey Wind. I'd tear out the Kingslayer's throat with my teeth, rip, and then the war would be over and everyone would come back to Winterfell. If I was a wolf . . ." He howled. "Ooo-ooo-oooooooooooo." (ACOK, Bran I)

Inside Summer he thinks of Sansa and Lady:

These woods belonged to them, the snowy slopes and stony hills, the great green pines and the golden leaf oaks, the rushing streams and blue lakes fringed with fingers of white frost. But his sister had left the wilds, to walk in the halls of man-rock where other hunters ruled, and once within those halls it was hard to find the path back out. The wolf prince remembered. (ASOS, Bran I)

He has memories of being comforted by her that come back to him in a moment of fear.

The footfalls sounded heavy to Bran, slow, ponderous, scraping against the stone. It must be huge. Mad Axe had been a big man in Old Nan's story, and the thing that came in the night had been monstrous. Back in Winterfell, Sansa had told him that the demons of the dark couldn't touch him if he hid beneath his blanket. He almost did that now, before he remembered that he was a prince, and almost a man grown. (ASOS, Bran IV)

He firms counts her as a magical member of House Stark.

Old Nan had told him the same story once, Bran remembered, but when he asked Robb if it was true, his brother laughed and asked him if he believed in grumkins too. He wished Robb were with them now. I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet that he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow. We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery. (ADWD, Bran III)

Bran is clearly trying to define himself as a Man Grown in opposition to "the girls" and the kinds of feminine-coded subjects Sans cares for, in the same wa Arya rejects them as "stupid" because she stuggles with the confines of the role she was supposed to occupy. Neither of them is right to do so, but it helps to understand why they do it.

Bran did not understand, so he asked the Reeds. "Do you like to read books, Bran?" Jojen asked him. "Some books. I like the fighting stories. My sister Sansa likes the kissing stories, but those are stupid." (ADWD, Bran III)

The relationship of "the girls" (as Bran keeps referring to them) is obviously more prominent because they shared more of their time and space every day (and are meant to illusttrate through their conflict how no woman wins in patriarchy, they are all equally oppressed) while the education of the boys required more time outside and away. But there is a clear indication that Bran cares for Sansa and understands her and she was a gentle older sister to him.

[kingsmoot]

agot; bran i

agot; tyrion i

acok; catelyn i

acok: theon vi

asos; jaime iv

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

In this post, I talked a bit about how the removal of magic in GOT destroyed the character of Euron Greyjoy. Now I'm going to talk about how it negatively impacted Daenerys' character.

Magic is fundamental to Dany's storyline, which is why her story is one of the only ones that still has magic in it on the show. However, that magic is drastically reduced, there's now simply hatching the dragons, the calling she feels to do so, and like two visions in the House of the Undying. Meaning, aside from dragon riding, Dany's magic is only in the first two seasons.

I want to talk first about how they reduced her dreams. In AGOT, we have almost a dream per chapter for Dany, each of them pointing to her future as the Mother of Dragons, a dragon rider, and her later story points. In ACOK, her visions in the House of the Undying point to not only her future, but those of other characters (i.e. the Red Wedding, Tyrion, Jon, the Others, etc). ASOS sees the first appearance of Quaithe in Dany's dreams, and in ADWD, Dany dreams in the Dothraki Sea and sees Quaithe a few more times. That's a pretty big difference from the show's portrayal.

The removal of these dreams serve to make Dany seem much more similar to the rest of her family than she really is. It's a way for them to make her seem less remarkable and force their "parallels" with Aerys. In the books, while other Targaryens have dragon dreams, none of them are quite to the same level as Dany, with the exception of maybe Daenys (we don't actually know). She's meant to be set apart, just like the other main five. She, Jon, Bran, Arya, and even Tyrion are meant to have stronger connections to magic than any other main characters.

Jumping back to Quaithe, removing her really shows how little they cared about George's plans for Dany's character. Her connection to the resurgence of magic is touched on in the show, but not to the same extent as it is in the books. Quaithe is constantly telling Dany to go to Assai, one of the magical centers of the world. Obviously there is something important in Asshai that has to do with magic and the dragons. But apparently, D&D decided to fuck around and drop that whole idea, leaving Dany with an easy and pretty boring storyline after Meereen.

Finally, the show removed most of the prophecies. I did cover this partially in the dreams section, but there's more to be said about erasing the prophecies. Mainly the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai prophecy. Obviously, in the show, it was decided that the prophecy should be completely thrown aside and Arya should kill the Night King and the War for the Dawn be over in a few hours. This is a gross mishandling of the themes, which makes sense given who the head writers were. Prophecies are a key part of ASOIAF, and the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai is definitely the most important. Targaryens throughout history made unwise decisions in the name of the prophecy: Viserys II forced Aegon IV and Naerys to marry, Jaegaerys II forced Aerys and Rhaella to marry, (according to HoTD) Viserys I killed Aemma for a son, and Aegon conquered Westeros. Clearly this is important, writing it out in the name of "subverting expectations" is the dumbest fucking idea ever, right after mad queen Dany.

D&D also wrote out many magical objects that clearly are meant to have importance to the story. The glass candles and the dragon binder are magical objects that will change the course of Dany's life as she knows it. Whether the dragon binder Victarion has will work or not is irrelevant, its very existence could drive Dany off course from Westeros to Asshai. Maester Marwyn is bringing a glass candles to Dany and Quaithe warned her that they are burning again. The magic the glass candles have would have a massive impact on how Dany will proceed. After all, they could allow her to communicate with people in Westeros or Asshai or enhance her dragon dreams. They will also put her in direct conflict with the Citadel, as the Maesters use the glass candles as examples for magic's nonexistence.

Magic is integral to the ASOIAF universe. Removing it makes the story so much more boring and damages or destroys character arcs. Daenerys suffered so much in the adaptation, and one of the greatest blows was the removal of magic in her story. It shows how lazy D&D were, since they couldn't be bothered to figure out the magic system of the world they are adapting. It removes the interesting ideas George came up with, making it into someone's historical fiction smut fic when mixed with the other ideas D&D put in.

[istumpysk]

Okay, given that you think the show switched around a lot of endings (very valid, to be honest), how likely do you think it is that they gave Tommen Tyrion's ending?

The gargoyles watched him ascend. Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque. - Bran IV, AGOT

Stone and shattered gargoyles lay strewn across the yard. They fell just where I did, Bran thought when he saw them. Some of the gargoyles had broken into so many pieces it made him wonder how he was alive at all. - Bran VII, ACOK

Tyrion Lannister was sitting on the ledge above the door to the Great Hall, looking for all the world like a gargoyle. - Jon I, AGOT

Motionless as a gargoyle, Tyrion Lannister hunched on one knee atop a merlon. - Tyrion XIII, ACOK

I am by no means certain about Tyrion's endgame but I just came across these quotes while rereading ACOK and I am intrigued. What do you think?

I completely agree with your observation that George has intentionally connected Tyrion to the gargoyles.

"Yes. The gods have been kind to you, Sansa. You are a lovely girl. It seems almost obscene to squander such sweet innocence on that gargoyle." "What gargoyle?" Sansa did not understand. - Sansa III, ASOS

But I'm not sure what the takeaway is.

It seems quite probable that Tommen will throw himself from a window in Maegor's Holdfast.

There's the historical parallel:

Yet all these were as naught against the tragedy that descended on the court and king. On the twenty-second day of the ninth moon of 133 AC, Jaehaera of House Targaryen, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and the last surviving child of King Aegon II, perished at the age of ten. The little queen died just as her mother, Queen Helaena, had, throwing herself from a window in Maegor's Holdfast onto the iron spikes that lined the dry moat below. Impaled through breast and belly, she twisted in agony for half an hour before she could be lifted free, whereupon she passed from this life at once. - Fire & Blood

Plus, throughout A Feast For Crows, George consistently emphasizes the iron spikes whenever Cersei is on the drawbridge:

She paused upon the drawbridge that spanned the dry moat, gazing down at the spikes below. - Cersei I, AFFC

x

She left him on the drawbridge that spanned the dry moat with its bed of iron spikes and entered Maegor's Holdfast alone. - Cersei V, AFFC

x

"Should Ser Loras fall, Your Grace will need to find another worthy for the Kingsguard," Lord Qyburn said as they crossed over the spiked moat that girded Maegor's Holdfast. - Cersei VII, AFFC

Lastly, in the epilogue, Kevan Lannister remarks about the iron spikes, then the text quickly transitions to the lack of available Kingsguard to watch over Tommen:

The dry moat surrounding Maegor's Holdfast was three feet deep in snow, the iron spikes that lined it glistening with frost. The only way in or out of Maegor's was across the drawbridge that spanned that moat. A knight of the Kingsguard was always posted at its far end. Tonight the duty had fallen to Ser Meryn Trant. With Balon Swann hunting the rogue knight Darkstar down in Dorne, Loras Tyrell gravely wounded on Dragonstone, and Jaime vanished in the riverlands, only four of the White Swords remained in King's Landing, and Ser Kevan had thrown Osmund Kettleblack (and his brother Osfryd) into the dungeon within hours of Cersei's confessing that she had taken both men as lovers. That left only Trant, the feeble Boros Blount, and Qyburn's mute monster Robert Strong to protect the young king and royal family. - Epilogue, ADWD

It's not a lot, but it's enough for me. Lol

As much as I'd love for it to be Tyrion, Tommen feels like the safer bet. :)

[jozor-johai]

R'hllor in the Sept

In ACOK Catelyn IV, Catelyn visits the sept at the village by Renly's host, just before Renly is killed by the Stannis' shadow and the dark powers of R'hllor.

Before any of Stannis and Mel's actions, though, the power of R'hllor is present from the start.

Though it's a sept, and Catelyn is praying to each of the faces of the Seven in turn, note that it is the flickering torchlight which makes the faces "seem alive". In fact, the first sentence of every one of these paragraphs is a reminder of how the fire is affecting the appearance of the Seven's faces: flickering torchlight danced across the walls, the smoke makes her eyes burn, the shadows shift and sway, the torch spits. And with the light of the fire dancing across the masks, Catelyn begins to see visions, of a sort.

Over again over again in this passage, it sounds like, visually, Catelyn is really doing something similar to how a Red Priest gazes into the fires, seeing the shifting images of the flames and shadows.

It seems like a real moment of the power of fire and light combined with the faces of the seven, revealing to Catelyn insights about the people around her:

Flickering torchlight danced across the walls, making the faces seem half alive, twisting them, changing them. The statues in the great septs of the cities wore the faces the stonemasons had given them, but these charcoal scratchings were so crude they might be anyone. The Father's face made her think of her own father, dying in his bed at Riverrun. The Warrior was Renly and Stannis, Robb and Robert, Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow. She even glimpsed Arya in those lines, just for an instant. Then a gust of wind through the door made the torch sputter, and the semblance was gone, washed away in orange glare. The smoke was making her eyes burn. She rubbed at them with the heels of her scarred hands. When she looked up at the Mother again, it was her own mother she saw. Lady Minisa Tully had died in childbed, trying to give Lord Hoster a second son. The baby had perished with her, and afterward some of the life had gone out of Father. She was always so calm, Catelyn thought, remembering her mother's soft hands, her warm smile. If she had lived, how different our lives might have been. She wondered what Lady Minisa would make of her eldest daughter, kneeling here before her. I have come so many thousands of leagues, and for what? Who have I served? I have lost my daughters, Robb does not want me, and Bran and Rickon must surely think me a cold and unnatural mother. I was not even with Ned when he died . . . Her head swam, and the sept seemed to move around her. The shadows swayed and shifted, furtive animals racing across the cracked white walls. Catelyn had not eaten today. Perhaps that had been unwise. She told herself that there had been no time, but the truth was that food had lost its savor in a world without Ned. When they took his head off, they killed me too. Behind her the torch spit, and suddenly it seemed to her that it was her sister's face on the wall, though the eyes were harder than she recalled, not Lysa's eyes but Cersei's. Cersei is a mother too. No matter who fathered those children, she felt them kick inside her, brought them forth with her pain and blood, nursed them at her breast. If they are truly Jaime's . . .

This is mostly an observation, but I have a few thoughts on it, too:

First, I think it's cool that we have a moment where the influence of R'hllor appears even inside a sept, even before we really understand what we're seeing here.

Metaphorically, this scene is even better as a foundation for what happens later in this chapter: Renly, whose rainbow guard proclaims him a particularly devout champion of the Seven, is overcome by R'hllor's power and Stannis' shadow like how the torchlight and shifting shadows dance across the masks in the sept.

There's room for this moment to affect an understanding of magic, too; perhaps it adds a layer to the interpretation of these fire-inspired visions that Melisandre and Thoros experience. Does this mean that a layperson, like Catelyn, can also access this power, and just doesn't know what to make of it? Or should we think that Mel and Thoros are seeing only the flickering forms of fire and not magic at all, only interpreting it?

It's possible that this is a hint to the universality of whatever magical/religious power exists in the world, despite the different religions or names for it that different cultures have. This is the power of R'hllor projected onto the masks of the Seven—perhaps both the flames and the masks are guises for a shared, common power, unknowable behind the scenes.

[ladystoneboobs]

when it comes to the theon/starks pov trap, so many fans just assume jon's and bran's dislike of theon must be only bc they're just smarter, better judges of character than dumbly friendly robb, even somewhow foretelling theon's later actions at wf in clash. all of them missing that the explanation for why theon was closest to robb is clearly stated in his own first pov, after we've gotten to know jon and bran.

As for their[Ned/Catelyn's] children, the younger ones had been mewling babes for most of his years at Winterfell. Only Robb and his baseborn half brother Jon Snow had been old enough to be worth his notice. -Theon I, aCoK

when you've been sent to live with an unknown family in a strange land and the only boys in that family are ~5 years younger than you, it's natural you're going to learn to ignore that age difference to socialize with the only peers available. but that doesn't mean doing the same with little babies born after your arrival with 10+yr age gaps, that's an age difference too far. jon and robb have to care for all the starklings younger than them, that's their family, but theon was never a member of that family. it's only natural to only want to hang out with your friend and not adopt their hangers-on younger siblings as yours too. idt bran or rickon can be blamed for only robb ever being brotherly toward theon (as he once retorted to maester luwin while hunting for them in the wolfswood), they're little kids, but the point is everyone was reacting in regular kid patterns. bran had no reason to warm up much to an older boy who stole robb's attention from him while having no time for bran in return. (or at least that's how he'd see it.) the notion that bran was rejecting theon from a place of moral superiority implies there was something more there to be rejected. but i think it's more likely that, had it not been for the natural results of a ~12yr age gap, if bran had been a little older or theon had been a little more willing to befriend little kids, then imo bran would have been eager to join the club with all the older boys and truly feel like "a man grown". imho, a closer reading of agot would show that this explanation was also right there in starkling pov all along.

He[Jon Snow] missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious, always wanting to follow and join in whatever Jon and Robb were doing. -Jon III, aGoT Even when he was home at Winterfell, Robb the Lord seemed to have more time for Hallis Mollen and Theon Greyjoy than he ever did for his brothers. -Bran IV, aGoT

as for theon/jon ...

The bastard was a sullen boy, quick to sense a slight, jealous of Theon's high birth and Robb's regard for him. -Theon I, aCoK

i think that jealousy for robb's regard must have been mutual, and yet we know who'd win that contest as idt robb would ever yell at jon for saving bran's life. jon had reason to envy theon's station when he was sidelined on special occassions, the same as theon envied jon's relationships with non-catelyn winterfellians. (ie, "Even the bastard Jon Snow had been accorded more honor than he had." theon had a father who was likely a miser with affection even before his wars and here's ned stark and a good part of his household treating even a bastard better than balon greyjoy treated his youngest child, almost as good as the stark heir and more welcome than the ironborn heir who should be robb's equal.) wf castle may have been huge but still not big enough for two liminal quasi-outsiders/not-quite-starks in the same official household with only so much respect, regard, and honor to go around.

there's also just a bit of a personality clash from jon's side of things. idt theon ever really knowingly or intentionally hurt jon, much less bullied him. but look at the rest of his behavior in that first theon pov chapter, casually seducing the captain's daughter and quipping about getting her pregnant, with no thought of ever seeing her again, making it unlikely he'd acknowledge, much less care for, this hypothetical greyjoy bastard. imagine how this attitude comes off to a proudly voluntary celibate teen who at least once declared he would never father a bastard. theon doesn't understand jon's baggage anymore than jon understands why theon, living under an implied threat of possible execution, might make light of beheadings. (some of their reasons for sullenness were similar but others were different enough to ensure that the wf household wasn't big enough for the both of them rather than them finding common ground.) to jon, it's all one and the same, part of theon being a selfish ass. but jon is also the same guy who later kept loving ygritte after she murdered an old man right in front of him, so it's not impossible that he could have befriended theon if they'd met later under different circumstances.

the real difference wrt the wf boys and theon is that robb was just the right mix of naturally friendly extrovert, close enough in age, and without too much baggage of his own to be theon's closest friend.

but we can also see that dislike of theon =/= distrust of theon. bran, as a little kid, is bewildered by theon's invasion of wf, not really getting what it meant that he was always ned's hostage as well as ward. jon may understand more of the background there and reiterated to himself that he never liked theon when hearing of the sack of wf, but he was still confused by the details of what he learned, thinking theon would never do that. and he was right about theon then! the boys theon killed were not bran and rickon, and it's true he would never burn and sack wf, that part was entirely ramsay. theon would emphatically never sack and burn his great war prize, which meant so much more bc he grew up there. that's so true, jon! so, far from sensing a deeper depravity in theon or always seeing him as an enemy, (which rather goes againt the false impression that theon was practically an adopted stark with reason to be equally brotherly to all ned's kids) when jon is objectively right about theon, it's actually in a positive sense, just that he was a skilled archer who wouldn't murder bran and rickon and would never sack wf. that's the jon who sees more and understands when his understanding applies to theon.