#ace of hearts alloromantic asexuality

[traceyshortfilm]

Hello all! Thank you for your patience and support on this podcast! If you haven't already, please read this Instagram post <3

In today's episode, I'll be recounting a sweet love story submission from an alloromantic ace couple! Thank you Skye & Cloud for sending in your story!

[thetisming]

Todd is the kind of guy to play go fish and say 'ohohoho, ace of hearts, you say?' whenever he gets an ace of hearts. and then someone he's playing with says 'do you have an ace?' and he's like 'WHAT? HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT?' completely genuinely

[nanaarii]

Can we kiss in bed, without it leading to sex?

[theeviltriplet-fromao3]

Yk I kinda regret calling it Ace of Hearts. Not that I think it’s a bad name, just that there’s better.

Especially since “Ace of Hearts” is much more suited for alloace

[aroaessidhe]

2023 reads // twitter thread

In My Dreams

romcom novella

when the nature reserve she works at goes into lockdown due to dangerous fugitives in the area, an ace woman is stuck for two weeks with the childhood friend she was in love with as a teenager

[thalfbloodloser]

i wish we had alloaro representation in media. a charming character who fucks - both literally AND aesthetically. one that makes other characters go "wow! they're so cool and good in bed, but ultimately un-datable, because as soon as they sense any romantic intention on you, they flee" (kinda like lucifer morningstar from "lucifer". he's aroallo in my heart)

a character who's funny and has a horrifyingly 80's sense of fashion (they have a curly combed-out mullet and mismatched earrings. you'll find them at pride wearing a corn costume because it "matches the aroallo flag" and they're "being subtle") or one who's the embodiment of a 60's greaser (their motorcycle helmet is themed after the aro flag and the back of their leather jacket says "LOVELESS / LOVE LOSES") or one who's a girly fanfiction writer that has more ships than a star wars movie (their fics are muntifandom-ly famous and most their stuff is covered in yaoi/yuri patches and stickers. everyone thinks they're a hopeless romantic because of it, but that's exactly why they're so big on the fiction ≠ reality discourse) or...

anyone else, really. just ultimately a HUMAN who's casually aromantic. one who doesn't make it a parade but isn't subtle about it, either. will they hold other character's hands? maybe. kiss their cheek? perhaps. hang out with them, on picnics and walks along the river? can't see why not! but platonically. or maybe have them be genuinely romance-repulsed & not so eager to participate in anything socially perceived as romantic. that would also be amazing.

let them express themselves sexually! let them fuck. give them a..."fuckbuddy", if you must. or a best friend who's sexually involved with them - classic romcom material, i know - but without it being "complicated"; because there's no romance involved to complicate it.

give them funny scenes. another character tries to kiss their lips or ask them on a date? they laugh nervously, the scene cuts and we get a hilarious shot of them escaping through the bathroom window. or audibly saying "ew" and then regretting it. another character is struggling to write a romcom/romance book without it being corny? we get a scene where our character casually describes the most romantical (and, to them, unappealing) plot ever - because, much like aces acing the smut department, they're far from misunderstanding what is or isn't heartstopping for alloromantics - only to have the other character stare at them like "?????????? HELLO????". give us a scene of them being confused as to why their hookup is yelling at them for acting "so casual" and responding with a quotable shitty line ("just because we had sex last night i can't call you "bro"? / "what? expected me to marry you or something? get off my bed, it's 9AM" / "would you rather have me mad? sad? what's happening here. give me a hint")

but give them complicated scenes too. scenes portraying the loneliness that comes with being aromantic but not asexual, the lack of community. them talking about how hard it is to maintain sexual relationships just sexual. the painful "breakups" because one of their friends declared their undying love for them but they cannot possibly match that energy, even if they wanted to. have them weep because somehow that keeps happening. the unfairness in being accused of heartlessness and selfishness by other queers. the shame on being told they're fetishistic and the reason why queer men/women/people are seen as sex-crazed or impure.

...anyways, i'm rambling- do y'all have any aroallo ocs? or ideas for alloaro characters? maybe aroallo headcanons? i'd love to know what you think! :)

(don't tag as #ace / #asexual / #asexuality)

[stabbydragon]

Ace pride idea

You know that game headbands where you wear one of these headbands, put a card in it, and you have to guess what the card is?

And you know that thing where an Ace of Spades is for aromantic asexuals, Ace of Hearts is for alloromantic asexuals, Ace of Clubs is for demisexuals or demiro aces, and Ace of Diamonds is for graysexuals (graces) and greyro aces?

Well next June, I’m going to buy one of those headbands and stick and ace of spades in it and just wear it everywhere

[eleiyaumei]

Rambling about aro, ace, aroace, demi Sesshōmaru

romantic attraction =/= sexual attraction, aromanticism =/= asexuality

For most people, their romantic identity matches their sexual identity (e.g. aroace, gay, straight, bi) but that doesn’t mean that they are the same. Alloromantic asexual people and aromantic allosexual people might be the best examples for this but it’s also possible to be heterosexual and panromantic.

As far as I know, alloromantic allosexual Sesshōmaru is the most common representation of him in fan works which makes sense because most people on the planet identify that way.

In regards to “proof” that Sesshōmaru might be one identity or another, in my judgement, there is none, neither in manga nor anime – not even in YH, which I do not include in this because for me, it is not canon. There are several instances where Sesshōmaru’s kind of feelings are ambiguous, especially in the case of Kagura, but none show explicitly that he feels romantic or sexual attraction to anyone. (If you disagree, feel free to let me know!)

So, in accordance with the “lack of proof on sexual and romantic attraction”, I interpret Sesshōmaru to be aroace. But this is influenced by me being ace and thinking in the pattern “asexual until proven allosexual”. Similarly, alloromantic allosexual people might think “allo/allo until proven otherwise” and see Sesshōmaru that way until he says something like “I am not interested in romance and/or sex” and that’s valid as well.

But 1) we can’t look inside his brain, heart or body and determine what he experiences

and 2) we as fans can headcanon him as whatever identity we like.

(I personally separate interpretation from headcanon for interpretation to mean “something that can be supported by the text” and for headcanon to mean “whatever someone imagines – whether supported by the text or not”.)

Interpreting or HCing Sesshōmaru as demisexual and/or demiromantic seems to be the best compromise for a lot of people, allo and aro-/ace-specs alike. Like, he ‘is’ asexual/aromantic until he forms a deep bond with someone and he then ‘becomes’ allo.

Demisexual/-romantic people, please tell me what you think of that wording because I’m not a fan of it. It reminds me of things allo people tell a-spec people, the whole “You just have to find the right person”, or of what supporters of Purity Culture want people to be like: Abstaining from sex, sexual thoughts, fantasies etc. until you marry and then having sex regularly to reproduce, pleasing your partner etc.

I’m also not fond of the wording of the common definition of demisexuality/-romanticism: “Experiencing sexual/romantic attraction after developing a strong emotional bond with someone” because it can make it seem like you automatically experience these attractions once you formed said bond when I don’t think that’s the case for most demi people.

I prefer the definition that I heard from a demi person (Christi Kerr), in the vein of “rarely experiencing sexual/romantic attraction and when you do, it’s towards someone you developed a strong emotional bond with”. [Source]

Demisexuality and -romanticism aren’t experienced in a monolithic way. Some might develop sexual/romantic attraction to every person they bond with emotionally, some might predict a possibility that they will develop attraction once they get close to a specific person and some might get close to people (with the hope/assumption that they’ll develop attraction) only to realize that they still don’t feel attraction towards them.

(As an asexual person who only experiences sexual attraction towards 1 fictional character, I’m pretty jealous of the first two groups. Like, “It’s THAT easy for you guys? GREAT. Wish that were me.” But I know that no experience is “easy”, people can still deal with unreciprocated feelings/attraction, fleeting attraction, and many other struggles.)

What worries me about people HCing Sesshomaru as demisexual/-romantic is the potential that some allo people only use that HC to fetishize/project their own fantasies onto the real identities of demisexuality/-romanticism. Like, they might accept the aro/ace parts only because he does experience attraction towards them/their OC(s)/the person(s) they’re shipping him with (and attraction is kinda a must-have in romance/smut works) and because it gives them a sense of relationship security, fewer reasons to get jealous towards people he’s interacting with.

But I have to be fair and acknowledge that people can separate fact from fiction and can see their fantasies as such. Though, I must admit, I’m pretty pessimistic about that since the spectrums of asexuality and aromanticism are not common knowledge and a lot of misconceptions are roaming about...

[traumasurvivorshelpingsurvivors]

looking for: advice, help figuring out how to reconcile my feelings

tws: queer infighting (sort of?) acephobia mentions, arophobia

So, i've been struggling with this for a while now. I'll start by saying I am extremely pro my ace family and ace rights, I understand the type of persecution they face and it's horrible. None of what I'm dealing with from the asexual community is convincing me that asexuality is bad or asexuals have bad intent inherently.

I am aromantic and bisexual (not asexual), and I've faced a lot of flack from alloromantic and allosexual people for being bisexual and aro. You know, the idea that I'm just using people for their bodies and stuff. So that's really tiresome and frustrating, even the little things like "oh you're aro, you're not physically attracted to people?". Ignorance stings even if it's not malicious.

So I obviously take great comfort in the aro community. And the aro community is very connected to the ace community. Which I have no problem with! I have had a lot of trouble finding aro people who aren't ace, which is isolating and difficult.

So here's the main problem. I've faced a lot of hate and microaggressions from aro ace people and alloromantic ace people. Ace people either refusing to count alloaro people as a demographic, or acting like anyone who's aro must be ace. The worst for me is when they talk about specifically ace things and add aro in like it's just a descriptor. I'm writing this and my heart is aching bc I'm being lumped in with a group of people who aren't me!!! They're a lovely group of people but it's the same feeling of being misgendered. I can't pick a fight with everyone who does this, and if I express my frustrating with how I've been treated it's very easy for people to just label me as acephobic (which would be a horrible thing to be!!! except I'm not, I'm very clearly stating that some ace people are being bigots towards alloaro people).

I don't know how to reconcile my love and support of the ace community with the intense amount of persecution I've faced by many people in that community.

I know in my head that I can be angry at arophobic aces, but if I try to talk about it, and even in my emotions, it's so hard.

Hi anon, 

I’m so sorry this has been impacting you in such a painful way - I deeply sympathize because though I’m aspec myself, I am not aro, so I found myself nodding along to several points you made along the way in your post when trying to navigate the community where I’ve also mainly stumbled on people who identify with both.

At the end of the day it is a spectrum - well all sexuality is - but there is a wide coverage here, and unfortunately with not enough resources, representation and education about the asexuality spectrum many of us get lumped together in not only ignorant ways, but painful and even abusive ones, too.  All that being said, at the end of the day, there is a huge difference between making bigoted commentary about a group of people, and responding to commentary about a group of people that includes you (and I’m very sorry to hear that some people mislabeled your advocacy of what is said to you and/or how you are spoken to/about as being automatically aphobic).

Of course we cannot argue with everyone we come across, but it’s equally valid to want to be surrounded by people who do not make negative commentary about your romantic orientation, even if it’s from a place of ignorance versus say active harassment - if it hurts, it hurts, and you deserve a community where you can just be without the commentary based on false assumptions and aphobia (which I can appreciate might feel hard, when over 80% of aroromantics in this study have “reported not being taken seriously, being ignored, or being dismissed by others.”)

In regards to how to respond where it doesn’t feel hard, it might simply come down to a practice of one step at a time (and potentially looking into boundary scripts and how to respond to aphobia & bigotry resources) - but I believe it’s equally important to find a community of people you can just be with.  No one has the right to decide who belongs in public, shared spaces, so I don’t mean to suggest shrinking yourself into a box - but finding other people you can share with and who “get it” can be incredibly validating too as you navigate bigger spaces along your journey.  The AUREA website has both online resources, as well as in person groups, and here’s a reddit forum that might at least be able to help you find some online communities across various social media platforms?

Regardless of what happens next, you deserve to be embraced for who you are, as you are, and I hope you find a community that roots for you.

Mod Kat

[the-ace-lesbians]

(Warning for potentially TMI, you don't have to read or answer if you don't want!)

Hi, so I (18F) have been identifying as aroace for about two years but I'm starting to wonder if my feelings towards other women are just platonic or if I may be an ace lesbian.

I really liked some of my friends in high school but I don't know if it's a crush because I didn't think about them constantly and it kind of faded whenever I didn't see them for a long time (like over COVID and summer vacation). When I try to think about if I've had crushes, there are no really obvious answers but there are a few people that are kind of in this weird blurry area of, "I never thought of this as a crush at the time but looking back I was kind of weird about her and really wanted her to like me so maybe???" Since I was like 13 or 14 I really liked reading or writing stories about girls in a relationship and even daydreaming that I was one of the characters in the story dating another girl, but I never fantasized about it with real people.

Another hangup is, is it romantic attraction even if you feel uncomfortable with the idea of marrying someone? I don't know if I just have weird feelings about marriage from living with a conservative family that has very strict rules for how married life is supposed to go, or if I genuinely am just not romantically interested.

Like, I like looking at other girls and would love to cuddle with one, and I think I would probably love to love and be loved in a romantic way, but thinking about marriage as the end goal makes it all turn sour. It's less, "I want to settle down and get married and live together" and more "I admire you, I wish I was as strong as you, I want you to tell me about your day, I want to rest my head in your lap while we watch a movie, maybe I want to kiss, and if you called me your girlfriend I think I'd be flustered in a happy way but marriage scares the shit out of me."

So I guess for aces it's a question as old as time: I think I like girls, but does it sound like "I just think they're neat" or "I think I spilled my heart on your shoes, oops"?

I love love, and I love talking about love, romantic or not, so I think I have some good thoughts here for you, anon! I'll put it all undercut to save the people my endless ramblings haha.

Just going top to bottom here, I'll try and answer some questions and give some general thoughts! I am an alloromantic asexual lesbian myself, so if any arospecs read this and disagree or have corrections, please reply to this!

As far as I understand crushes, anon, they don't have to be constantly having romantic feelings about people, or even really recognizing the feelings you have as romantic - romantic attraction is hard to nail down because of how wishy washy and different it can feel and be for everyone. For me, I'd see romantic attraction in myself as the want to have and receive romantic intent with physical interactions, and to be perceived as a romantic couple with my partner by others; Basically, when I kiss a partner, or we go into public together, I want to do it with the intent of being in a romantic relationship.

But, of course, identifying that want is so hard as is. I look back and realize that my obsession and love of certain people's friendship, including feeling jealous when they were with others and not me, wasn't just me being a 'weird kid' but me having a crush on them. I've rarely ever felt the 'butterflies' feeling, or thought about getting married to anyone - actually, the only time I've considered 'marrying a crush' was a comphet crush (The idea of getting married to him CRUSHED me and I didn't know why).

Even at 22, I'm sitting here and I'm pretty sure I have a crush on a friend of mine, we're talking with romantic intentions in mind, and I literally will sometimes find myself forgetting what I was saying when I look at their face or they flirt with me. And yet, I'm still confused because I don't have all those stereotypical 'fluffy sparkly love' feelings.

I will say, I feel as though the media we create and consume shows a lot about our internal desires and wants - obviously there's a nuance to this, but the things we make and consume says a lot about who we are, so I will say that actively making or consuming media about sapphic relationships might tell us what you want or what your brain enjoys, even if you aren't focusing yourself in those situations.

Discussions of sex/asexuality as a comparison to this: Personally, as an asexual, I've never really had fantasies about sex or even intimate situations that involve me, those make me feel uncomfortable and gross, or I just can't actually imagine myself in them at all - unrelated, I can't even consume content that has real people, or even characters played by actors (like, in fics). I find that having a barrier between 'me' and the 'enjoyment' of whatever I'm consuming is what lets my brain understand it and enjoy it. This could be similar here, just with romance; I don't want to have sex, I don't feel sexual attraction, but using a 'third-party' (for lack of a better term) can let me understand and consume the content and scratch some part of my brain.

As far as marrying someone goes, I can completely see where that can be scary or confusing, especially if you come from a conservative background (my deepest sympathies, and I hope you're in a better place, or soon to be). Plenty of alloromantic people don't want to get married, but do have romantic attraction to their partners, even long-term partners - marriage can serve as a 'symbol' of devotion and love, but it's mostly legal, and some decide to go for less legally binding ceremonies. Marriage is a very scary thing, especially when faced with the concept of the 'ideal' conservative marriage, where things are often unfair and unhappy long-term.

Me personally, I'm not that interested in marriage, especially because I'm not able to get married for other reasons. If I were to have a partner I wanted to show commitment to, we'd probably do a more symbolic ceremony and I wouldn't want anything to change after - no sudden shift in division of labor, no new expectations of either of us, none of that.

Romantic attraction without the want to marry is perfectly normal, and increasingly common - and, alternatively, I've seen a few arospecs who want to get married without romantic attraction behind it. This can, again, be because of commitment or devotion to a partner they might have, or strictly for those legal reasons (and, speaking of that, shout out to the countless marriages just for the legal benefits).

As far as if it's romantic attraction or not, that's not something I can decide for you, because romantic attraction is so different for everyone. If you feel the want to be with someone in a romantic sense, or if you get 'fluttery feelings' (I learned recently that those are real, which... wild) thinking about a certain someone, or even if you just find yourself happier around one person more than others, it could be a good indication that there's a romantic want/urge in your brain that just needs to be untangled.

I wish you the best in figuring it out, anon!

[traceyshortfilm]

EPISODE 2 of Ace of Hearts: A Podcast for Alloromantic Asexuals is out NOW!! Find your listening platform here 💖

What would my caveman name be? 🗿

[burntearlgrey]

Fascinating time I’m having. Stuck in the Late Night Thoughts ruminating on the nature of romantic asexuality and the fact that it feels like this weird grey space that I inhabit. Most modern romance—that I’ve been exposed to—is at least tangentially related to or implies the concept of sexual intimacy in some form or fashion. Conversely, most aspec rep I see is the aroace double whammy—which is amazing to see represented! Please don’t misunderstand my meaning here—but I feel like there’s a dearth of rep in the alloromantic ace/allosexual aro categories that honestly would really fill my heart to see. I know that of course these demographics exist, and perhaps it’s just that I’m isolated from it, but sometimes it does feel lonely to see how romance and allosexuality are treated as separate from aspec rep as a broad rule.

[wolfjackle]

Hi, I am writing a book about the history of asexuality through the lens of my and others personal experiences of being asexual and I saw your post about the time you spent on AVEN with regard to the terms for the community. I wondered if you would be willing to talk to me about your experience of being in the community and if you had an suggestions for historical moments or resources?

Thanks for your time!

I'm absolutely happy to talk to you, but I don't know how much help I'll be. I discovered Asexuality around 11 or 12 years ago (early 2010s) and have been in and out of online ace spaces since.

I didn't have any doubt about my identity. It went from reading the word in a fanfic and going "huh, that's a thing?" to "Oh, that's me" within a week. Literally, within hours of actively looking up the term, I accepted it for myself. It didn't distress me, it didn't bother me. It did make the rest of the world make a lot more sense, though.

IRL, I'm half out. As in most of my close friends know, but for my family, I've never bothered to use the word "asexual" or "aromantic". I just tell them I don't plan on dating/getting married and now that I'm in my 30s, they rather believe me.

I managed to miss the worst of the Discourse™ by simply not being on tumblr at the time. I was in school (18 credit semesters + part time work), then moving and starting a new career. I also dropped off online social spaces for a while with the death of forums. By the time I came back and got comfortable, the worst of the discourse had passed.

Now, though, I'm not really in ace circles very much. I think it's because I just can't get into how they're organized. Having to rely on reddit (which I stopped using in July due to API changes) or Tumblr is...very slap-dash. I prefer the organization of forums. Where you have one specific area for memes, one for serious discussion, one for jokes, one for people new to the idea and settling in, etc. When it's all mixed together, I find I have to sift through a lot of what I'm not in the mood for to find the stuff I want to engage with.

I feel like I probably know more than what I think I do. I'm always surprised when I come across aces who don't realize certain things. The amount of tags and comments on my addition to the allosexual post prove that. So many people hadn't heard the ace definition of "self contained sexuality" and found it resonated with them. I'm glad I could teach them that bit of history as the definition is the one I relate most to as well.

I've seen people who think that only the ace of spades is a valid ace symbol when really it was the entire suite. Ace of hearts = alloromantic ace, Ace of spades = aroace, ace of diamonds = demiace, ace of clubs = grayace.

Most people know about the black ring, at least.

Anyway, if you think I can be of help, please reach out! I'll answer what questions I can and tell my (admittedly rather boring) story.

[normystical]

you ever just forget that alloromantics also find people hot romantically? like i saw someone on reddit with an ace heart in their pfp and they said "i miss him being hot but this form is adorable" and i thought??? but you're asexual??? but then i remembered oh yeah romantic attraction exists and is also associated with "hotness"

[3scapethevoid]

hi! i was wondering what those different ace phrases mean?

Ace of hearts typically means someone who's asexual and alloromantic

Ace of clubs and ace of diamonds typically mean someone who's asexual and demiromantic and/or grayromantic

Ace of spades typically just means someone who's asexual

And ace of aces means someone who is aroace (but they can also have more a-spec identities)

But I assume that anyone can use them because they aren't slang terms I created.

[kdm13]

it wasn't just the ace of spades though. if memory serves, the ace of spades was specifically for asexual people who were also aromantic. all the other suits had meanings too, but i can't remember them beyond maybe the ace of hearts being alloromantic? but it's been ages and i only remember for sure the one that applies to my aroace ass lmao

https://www.tumblr.com/deadliestpieceontheboard/697014924640223232?source=share

None of us (mods) were on tumblr during that time so we can't really say much, but I've heard a bit about that discourse before. Maybe our followers will have more to say on this