#a tale of two protags

[obsidianmichi]

Cutie vs. Hat of Shame

[presiding]

humansider by @lapinneok

[at-doodle-a-day]

Getting really into Block Tales and kiiiinda wanted to doodle the two parallels I saw because I love both things, yk how it is.

Kings who are associated with Ice who hear voices and become friends with the protag and Real fucked up sword wielding Protags. Blep

Day 28

[dangermousie]

Hey dangermousie some time when you're feeling up for an ask: what are your favorite webnovels? Like danmei, bg, general fiction, anything. You've shared so many intetesting sounding novels in other posts so I was curious what some of the top favorites are? I remember Sha Po Lang, Ever Night, and The Dreamer in the Spring Boudoir (which I'm reading because of you ToT)

I love this ask! I am gonna limit myself to 35 novels or we will be here all night. The usual caveat is - this is very personal. You will see that out of 35 (well, 36) novels, there is only one modern, there is a lot of angst and things like noncon and unhealthy relationships don't bother me. But I dislike harem infights and protags who are too OP.

35 I Became the Older Brother of the Heroine in an Abusive Novel by Liu Gou Hua (danmei) - a lovely novel where one half of otp is healthy and wholesome and the other abused feral wreck who melts under sanity and care.

34 After the Disabled God of War Became My Concubine by Liu Gou Hua (danmei) - our MC is a modern person who transmigrates into a historical bad guy who apparently married a captured and crippled general who eventually healed, escaped and committed a lot of murder to avenge his humiliation. Poor historian MC transmigrates right before the wedding and is desperate to avoid the fate of having his head hang on the city gates for three years in the near future. Good luck! This has such a wholesome (yet not boring) OTP. Proof that healthy doesn't have to be dull.

33 You've Got Mail by He Dan Bai (danmei) - the sex in this one is gonzo and biologically questionable but the love story is wistful and sweet and somehow both hilarious and involving two rather damaged people.

32 The Blue Whisper by Jiu Lu Fei Xiang (het) - the novel is a bona fide angst masterpiece, which really delves into what it feels like to be imprisoned or to love and what makes you you. I sniffled throughout.

31 The Paranoid Emperor’s Black Moonlight Shizun by Chen Sensen (danmei) - a really screwed up disciple and a really decent master have some insane entanglements. To say more would be to spoil but if you want some intensity, angst, groveling and utter codependency and did I mention ANGST? this one is for you!

30 Demon King's Repayment by Gong Xinwen (het) - another delicious Gong Xinwen tale with a powerful ML dedicated to capable FL. This one is a great fantasy plot (I keep imagining it as an animated series) and a sprawling cast of amazing secondaries (and secondary OTPs - there is, I swear, an OTP that is Dong Hua x Feng Jiu done thru GXW lens) to boot.

29 Accompanying the Phoenix by Jiu Lu Fei Xiang (het) - the one that just got adapted into The Legend of Shen Li, this is high adventure and cottage core and funny and tragic and powerful ML being putty in the hands of capable FL and just EVERYTHING.

28 The Counterattack of the Cannon Fodder Chambermaid by Jia Mian De Sheng Yan (het) - I remember starting this and loving the realistic feel and the heroine and wanting to stab the hero. Yet the end I was on board with both the hero (who was abused and is rather autistic-coded) and the OTP. Anyway, heroine is a servant who was a concubine in the last life and got killed as part of a rich family’s harem intrigues. In this life, she just wants to keep her head down but her life gets derailed anyway. She gets sold away and eventually made a servant in the household of an exiled prince who takes a fancy to her and she endures it because what choice does she have? All she wanted was to serve out her term and become a small time merchant. This is quite realistic about lack of options for women, especially lower class women or upper class male attitudes (ML is never vicious or mean to FL but it does not initially occur to him to wonder if she fancies him or enjoys being his concubine or w/e.) It is a DELIGHTFUL slow burn tho as they grow to love each other and grow together and become one of the most wholesome cnovel couples out there.

27 The Black Moonlight Holds the BE Script by Teng Luo Wei Zhi (het) - so fucked up, so good, with monster hero who learns to love and be human and heroine who learns to love and be human (but from the other side, her tower of perfection), with a complex plot and no easy outs.

26 The Grand Princess by Mo Shu Bai (het) - a husband and wife who really drifted apart and ended up killing each other (or did they?) get a second chance as they are reborn as their younger selves. This has a great plot, a competent set of protags, and slow burn with complexity and trauma and somehow yet lightness. Plus awesome secondary OTPs!

25 Copper Coins by Mu Su Li (danmei) - a monk and a dragon? More likely than you may think. This is smart and wistful and made me cry; the romance doesn't kick in for the longest time and it doesn't even matter.

24 The Golden Terrace by Cang Wu Bin Bai (danmei) - two smart and principled (yes, they both have principles different though they may be) men navigate their arranged marriage, their past friendship and their past break up, become a super couple (one of the healthiest danmei couples I’ve ever read and proves healthy doesn’t have to be boring), save the country and bring down the emperor or two and just generally this is my rainy day book.

23 Long Wind Crossing (Destined) by Mo Shu Bai (het) - two functional lovely people fighting the world and growing up together and forming an amazing marriage.

22 Mistakenly Saving the Villain by Feng Yu Nie (danmei) - so underrated. A perfect h/c fantasy with the most functional MC and fucked up ML that never puts even a toe wrong with a premise that could go seriously bad so many different ways, instead telling a funny, moving story of love helping you heal.

21 I'll Be the Male Lead's Sister in Law by September Flowing Fire (het) - one of my all time favorite novels. Heroine is made to marry a disabled nephew of the emperor. He used to be a victorious god of war but went mad and now is basically locked away and kept as a beast. GOD I LOVE THIS NOVEL SO MUCHHHHH! So much hurt/comfort and awesome OTP and after he eventually recovers, all he wants to do is to fight and murder things and dote on wifey. MMM. He’s honestly one of my fave MLs.

20 The Rebirth of a Star General by Qian Sha Cha Ke (het) - not a typical QSCK at all, this one has a heroine who wakes up after being killed by her awful family; in her past life she was a general whose glory went to her cousin but here she chooses to start anew. Revenge is secondary to her - forming a new life and healing are really the focus. Also the OTP (FL and a male general with his own tragedy, and her former schoolmate) is just EVERYTHING!

19 Nan Chan by Tang Jiu Qing (danmei) - it reads like poetry crossed with a nightmare. One of the most unusual novels I've read and with the most alien set of protagonists I've ever read and believably so (a personification of a sword and a cannibalistic fish), I can't even describe this in any way other than a deity-centric paean to atheism.

18 The Rest of My Life by Mo Shu Bai (het) - the sole modern on this list, this is a novella about an aftermath of a regular office worker with a regular life and a regular husband being raped. It's a hard hard read but it's amazing.

17 To Rule In a Turbulent World by Fei Tian Ye Xiang (danmei) - gay Minglan is my elevator pitch. Well that or "what happens if you stick cottagecore and crucifixion in one novel."

It’s a BL novel but honestly, it’s a slice of life period novel with fascinating characters and setting that happens to have a gay OTP, not a romance in a period setting per se. It’s meticulously written and smart and deals with character development and somehow makes daily minutia fascinating (I never thought I’d find daily farming things interesting but here I am.) Farming, politics and the sudden horrors of war all intermingle perfectly.

Our protagonist, You Miao, is the son of a fabulously wealthy merchant, sent to the capital to make connections and study. As the story starts, he buys a sex slave on a whim from his friend (OK, wait wait wait don’t go, why are you bailing :P) Basically You Miao sees his friend’s servants beating someone to death, feels bad, and buys him because, as we discover gradually and organically, You Miao may be wealthy and occasionally immature but he is a genuinely good person. Let's back up - You Miao - our protag. He is the main reason I love the novel. It’s hard to write a character who is wealthy, kinda spoiled, sometimes immature and still make him eminently likeable. You Miao is also smart, pragmatic, funny, surprisingly laid back, a people person, and with a stubborn streak a mile wide. He is not perfect in any way but he is a real living breathing person I came to love.

Anyway, the ostensible sex slave he buys is a barbarian from beyond the wall, named Li Zhifeng. It’s touch and go if the man will survive but eventually he does and You Miao, who by then has to return home, gives him his papers and lets him go (not before they have some pretty explicit sex because hey - You Miao is all ‘why not, might be fun to try’ and LZF is “dude saved my life, why not.’ One of the things I love about the story is that there is no instalove - both sex and love make sense in the way and the order they happen; the two bang on a semi regular basis long before their feelings fully develop into love, which is pretty gradual and realistic.) However, LZF decides to stick with You Miao instead, both out of sense of debt for YM saving his life and because he genuinely likes him. One of the pleasures of the novel is watching LZF slowly transform from a piece of wood automaton into a genuine person who allows himself joy or temper.

So meticulously written, so smart, so vivid, such a cast of secondary characters (that friend who was beating LZF to death ended up being one of my favorite, most tragic characters in the novel because the author gets people are complex.)

16 The Scum Villain's Self-Saving System by MXTX (danmei) - a pastiche parody of web novels that somehow is both witty and makes me genuinely feel desperately for the protags. Go read!

15 Dandere General and His Lord by Gong Xinwen (het) - God, I love this one. Heroine transmigrates from modern world into a brutal slave-holding world at war (think something like Warring States era.) Our heroine transmigrates into the body of a noblewoman who just hung herself. When she comes to, she discovers that woman’s twin brother was the ruler of a city poisoned by a rival claimant and the besieging army of said claimant is about to take the city and original occupant of the body and the rest of the family chose suicide as a way to avoid dishonor. Our heroine refuses, schemes with advisors to pass as the brother and rally the troops. Once the invaders are defeated, she keeps on the masquerade and rides off to one of the never-ending wars “she” is summoned to. Our hero couldn’t be farther from this. A slave and a son of a slave, he’s escaped a horrific, starving childhood during which he narrowly avoided being murdered or raped, and ended up in the army. When the story opens, he distinguished himself in battle and as a reward, he and a few of his fellow slave warriors are invited to a banquet, where they are given some alcohol and to be playthings of any nobles who want them. One of them does not survive this but ML is lucky - heroine feels terrible and so “claims” him for herself. Instead she just tends to his wounds and sends him back. She does not fancy him or anything, she is just a human being with a conscience. And the story goes from there.

14 The Marquis Is Innocent by Peng Lai Ke (het) - this is the set up of very beautiful yet utterly cold-hearted woman marrying a ruthless, powerful man who eventually ends up on top of the murder pyramid. And a relationship that starts as a political arrangement with the husband not caring for her but then the ruthless scheming murder machine falls hard for her while FL actually does not, not yet. It takes a long time. This is such a glorious slow burn (I think by now you realized I love slow burns) and it takes her a very long time to open up or for him to realize that is what he wants (he's a very believable period man who finds it hard to admit he can actually have his happiness based on a woman) and there are steps forward and back and it's glorious, glorious!

13 Thousand Miles of Bright Moonlight by 罗青梅 (haven't seen it transliterated) (het) - one of my ultimate favorites, this would make such an epic drama! A smart as hell but cautious and wounded heroine, a hero who is a monk and a warrior but also terribly ill and such a vivid world and amazing secondary characters (heroine’s brother is possibly my favorite supporting character of all time) and so much angst and happy ending. Both the protags are such intense, good people longing for happiness but not daring for it. This has an amazing romance but it’s not romance-centric if it makes sense - ML doesn’t appear for a while. But once he does, it’s worth it!

12 Mountain and River Pillow by Mo Shu Bai (het) - a tender intense and tragic slowburn which shows the limits of knowing what will happen and the fight to reestablish the family with an amazing amazing OTP. Heroine transmigrated into her past self; this time she chooses to go through with her arranged marriage instead of running away for love (it ended badly) but her knowledge fails to prevent her new sweet husband and his whole family murdered in battle and framed for treason. All that is, except for her husband's youngest brother, barely adult and left with an almost impossible task. In the past life he managed but it hollowed him out. In this one he has a sister in law to assist so...Anyway, both the protags are smart, good, intense and amazing people and I love them separately and as an OTP. By far my favorite MSB novel.

11 Those Years In Quest of Honour Mine by Man Man He Qi Duo (danmei) - another really underrated gem, it’s funny and heart-breaking and made me laugh and sniffle within pages of each other. Its two protagonists are both walking wounded but also good people, and watching them find happiness despite all the horrors the world threw at them, watching them take care of each other is so lovely. Also, someone once described the ML as “Lan Wangji gone feral” and that is just A++++

10 The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation by MXTX (danmei) - we all know that one is there even any point describing it.

9 Nightfall/Ever Night by Mao Ni (not romance centric but het) - so long but also so smart and unusual and bloody and tho it’s not primarily a romance, you will never see another ML who loves his FL as much as Ning Que does his Sang Sang. And the worldbuilding and the plot and the characters and just so so bleak.

8 Wu Chang Jie by Shui Qian Cheng (danmei) - are you an emotional vampire? I am and this novel is a banquet. In a highly fantastical setting, we meet our protagonists - the sunny Xie Bian and the intense and surly Fan Wushe. Xie Bian is a human who assists his master in conveying souls to the underworld and making sure no mishaps happen. Bian is concentrated sunshine in human form and to meet him is to love him. When the novel opens, his drunk master brings back another human to be his shidi and assist with duties - said human is uncommunicative, intense and surly Wushe. Bian is excited to have a shidi but little does he know that a story dealing with the horrors of past lifetime is about to start.

Anyway, why WCJ? So many reasons. It has such a dark bleak worldview - this world is a horrifying system where powerful cannibalize each other’s cores for an impossible chance to ascend, where gods have sealed off their realm and all that’s left is neverending human misery and hell (the only way you’d see a deity is if they’d been sent down to suffer over and over and over), where even reincarnation doesn’t fix things and bad acts are often unpunished. And the novel then asks - is it worth being a good person in such a world? More, is it worth being a good person in such a world when nothing good has ever happened to you and you have been repeatedly betrayed due to your goodness? And the answer, on Bian’s part, is an uncompromising yes.

Ah yes, the other reason to love this novel - the protagonists and their fucked up fucked up relationship. Bian (who was Prince Ziheng in the past life) is so genuinely good. But he is that rare thing - good but not saintly, noble but not cloying. So much of the novel is his getting taken apart over and over and barely able to put himself back together every time but his soul is still as amazing as ever. And then there is Wushe (who was Prince Zixiao in past life, Ziheng’s not-bio-related brother.) Wushe is not a good person. He is a monster. And he loves Bian/Ziheng more than his life and his soul and the entire world but he’s also the one who hurt him more than anyone else ever could and did it over and over. His love survived a literal century of torture in the worst kind of hell and refused the usual memory loss of new life. But it also humiliated and broke Ziheng down to his constituent parts.

One of the things that is so fascinating to me about this novel is the question of what can be forgiven/what should be forgiven/what kind of expiation is enough/can you ever love someone who you loved so much and then he hurt you so badly and is now repentant? And it never sweeps trauma under the rug or hand waves it away but deals with it head on. If you want healthy relationships, you should stay far away from this novel but if intense insane ones with a feral barely human one capable of destroying the world leashed by love and guilt to the sane deeply good one is your bag, come right in. There is also the world building and the fact that yes, the big fall out between Ziheng x Zixiao is based on not knowing all the facts but it’s not “why can’t you talk?! This is dumb!” But is totally in keeping with both events and their characters. It’s reasonable for Ziheng to do what he does and for Zixiao to misunderstand and decide Ziheng is now his biggest enemy (but still one he’s fixated on) and for Ziheng to never be able to clarify. Anyway, once again this is trigger warning central so please heed those, but if they are no issue, this one is wonderful.

7 Stars of Chaos (Sha Po Lang) by Priest (danmei) - so smart and so much clever world building. There is enough politicking to satisfy a Qiang Jin Jiu fan, it’s steampunk, and our two protagonists - Gu Yun, the empire’s most powerful general, who’s loyal to the empire despite being badly wronged by it, and Chang Geng, a cursed prince with barbarian blood and horrifying childhood - are wonderful separately and together. This is a huge slow burn but it’s totally worth it! They fall in love with each other’s hearts and brains and ability as much as anything. (Yes, this is the one with the yifu thing. Gu Yun is made Chang Geng’s foster father when he rescues him and brings him back to the capital as a way to keep CG safe in imperial strife. They are 12 and 19 at the time so clearly it’s never a parental relationship.)

6 Heaven Official's Blessing by by MXTX (danmei) - I love it’s sprawling narrative and cast, I love its inventive setting and picaresque story. It’s hilarious and can make me cry. But the novel’s place on this list is due to Xie Lian who is part Kenshin part drama WWX part pure goodness wrapped in heartbreak and trauma wrapped in sunshine.

5 (tie) The Emperor’s Beloved Ugly Girl by 一味相思 (haven't seen it transliterated) (het)- Our heroine is the unlucky laundry maid A’Chou. She is a di daughter of an upperclass family but her family got destroyed in one of the political upheavals of the time and A’Chou, only a small child at the time, was the only survivor and was made an enslaved laundry maid. Due to various events, at the start of the novel she is a laundry maid in a minister’s household and the minister’s beloved daughter is having a fit because she’s supposed to marry the former Crown Prince which may have been great a few years back but Crown Prince had since been deposed, tortured, imprisoned and now is living in the middle of nowhere under conditions that are too meager to be called house arrest. And he’s seriously crippled too. Understandably, the young lady doesn’t want to marry him! She’d rather kill herself and so she does. And so, a desperate plan is hatched - why don’t we pretend the laundry maid is the di daughter of the minister’s household and send her off? And so A’Chu is sent as the bride. She arrives to discover a broke, seriously injured man on the verge of death…and we go from there. This is so gorgeous and tender and slow in just the right way and like AAAAAA! Secondary OTPs (one of which is MM) are also epic.

5 Wishing You Eternal Happiness by Peng Lai Ke (het) - this is almost tied with Dreamer as my favorite het web novel ever though it couldn’t be more different from Dreamer, with its hard-edged and hard-souled protagonists ruthlessly cleaving their way to the world and, eventually, each other, its smart cynical air. Except in one thing - the world of Wishing is just as bloody and dark. Its two protagonists are gentle, deeply wounded souls who may find salvation in each other but even something as basic as safety almost seems out of reach. Jliafu, our heroine, is neither a modern-day transmigrator, nor some exotic princess or demoness. She is very much a period woman of her time, from a weathy merchant clan, whose beauty is her curse. You can tell the novel’s tone from that utterly bleak opening chapter where she, a favorite concubine of a capricious dying emperor, is ordered to be buried alive with him and is not even given the “grace” of white silk but slowly suffocates in the coffin, scrabbling at the lid. There is no grand threats of vengeance on her part, not dramatic opera events. Just despair and death. The whole introductory chapter is haunted by emotional ghosts - the empress’ unrequited love for the monster on the imperial bed (turning into desire for Jiafu’s suffering after he dies), the emperor slowly dying in his prime after waging too many wars, and his fear of being haunted by Pei Youan, a brilliant if sickly minister who died of illness long ago on one of imperial campaigns. There is no triumph for anyone, only loss.

When she wakes up as still a young woman, all she wants is to escape the same fate. There are no plans for power or revenge, only a desire for survival. And so she latches on asking for help from Pei Youan, the only man in her past go-around who showed any consideration and desire and ability to protect her, though he barely knew her. Pei Youan is probably my favorite het web novel ML. Despite his brains and ability, he drifts through life. In modern terms, he clearly has depression. One of the biggest, best joys of the novel is watching these two very good, very quiet, very wounded people discover happiness and love with each other. I sort of want to cry just thinking about it, tbh.

4 Ballad of Sword and Wine (Qiang Jin Jiu) by Tang Jiu Qing (danmei) - a dense political tome that takes a while to get going but then it’s a runaway train. In a fictional dynasty, Shen Zechuan, the only remaining son of a disgraced aristocratic family and Xiao Chiye, the younger son of a family of generals guarding the border join forces (and then something else) to get power and pull down the dysfunctional system.

This is so elegant and smart (a rare web novel I’d recommend to anyone who just loves solid period fiction) and you probably need a notebook to keep track of the politics and military strategy. These characters are very very smart not just because the author says so.

As to the characters, there is a large cast and I love many of them, but for me the novel is made by Shen Zechuan and Xiao Chiye. SZC is gorgeous and delicate and icy and can kill you before you have time to blink. Saddled with the sins of the family he had no pleasant interaction with, he claws his way out of hell (seeing the sinkhole he was trapped in, literally as well) to take down those who wronged him but also to amass power so all the tragedy and corruption won’t happen again and the whole rotten system comes crashing down. XCY is a military genius who is trapped as a hostage in the capital because the court doesn’t trust his family. He longs to return to the plains of home and to take his rightful place. The two men start out as bitter enemies, then reluctant and sniping allies, then as friends and eventually as one of the most gorgeous, tender, swoony OTPs. Anyway this is one is a bona fide masterpiece, equal parts smart and emotionally intense.

3 Dreamer In the Spring Boudoir by Bai Lu Cheng Shuang (het) - my n1 het novel on this list, smart and fierce and don’t really read this for romance because it does not start until really late, but ice cold heroine x ice cold hero both of equal brains and ruthlessness is everything. I went from loathing the ML to finding him fascinating to adoring him (and yet he softened around the edges only for FL, he never became “nice”) and loved FL throughout; secondaries are epic. If you read only one non-danmei web novel, make it this one.

2 Stains of Filth (Yuwu) by Meatbun Doesn't Eat Meat (danmei) - another novel by the author of 2ha. Clearly she just pushes all my buttons every time. This one is much shorter and has a plot that is twisty but less twisty than 2ha. Still, all that means is that intensity and the pain are more concentrated. Aristocratic Mo Xi and former slave Gu Mang were both legendary generals of the empire and lovers. But Gu Mang betrayed the country and switched to the enemy. Now he is back as a peace offering by that country and Mo Xi has to deal with the fact that his feelings are as strong as ever.

This novel!!! So much pain and intensity!!! So many amazing plot twists and supporting characters. The same bleak world view, the same unjust society, the same protagonists doing right things despite the cost. Mo Xi’s intensity and inability to let go (he’s imprinted on Gu Mang and that’s it) is romantic, bone-shakingly intense, and tragic all at once. And oh Gu Mang! So many times I just wanted to reach into the book physically to protect him. The novel deals with unjust societies, memory versus personality, what it’s like to be good in a bad universe etc. And it both made me sob and giggle, repeatedly, and sold me on literally death-defying (but not honor-defying!) love. Oh, and special shout out to the fact that like 2ha, you may start out hating some characters and end up a rabid fangirl (cough Murong Lian!)

1 The Husky and His White Cat Shizun (2ha) by Meatbun Doesn't Eat Meat (danmei) -my n1 forever and ever.

Taxian Jun, the horrific cultivation emperor of the world who razed cities and destroyed sects, is surrounded on his mountain. The righteous sects are terrified to confront him but tired of living, Taxian Jun consumes poison and dies by suicide at the age of 32. And opens his eyes as 16 year old Mo Ran, Mo Ran long before he became Taxian Jun, Mo Ran who is excited at a chance to save the one person he loved and lost. Oh, and to deal with his loathed shizun, the unapproachable and strict Chu Wanning, his past life’s biggest enemy.

I have no idea if it’s objectively the best on this list but it hits every trope I love, its bleak worldview (the world will change only incrementally but that’s enough, average person will not appreciate the sacrifice but it’s still worthwhile, and love is worth everything) mirrors mine, and the sheer complexity of the plot and cascade of plot twists each of which is insane and yet completely logical, is amazing (this is a rare novel where it’s even more fun to reread than read for the first time because you keep seeing all the hints and trail crumbs laid out that you did not see the first time.)

And the characters!!! I mean, this novel has multiple universes/timelines, a side trip to the Underworld AND the demon realm, a plot more twisted than a store’s worth of pretzels and yet the thing that hits me the most are the characters. Mo Ran is my favorite web novel character of all time and I love Chu Wanning so. All the secondary characters are wonderfully written (and some of them made me bawl) and they are all complex. My opinion of all of them changed many times over; the novel doesn’t make it easy to love some of them but then you do and it’s so worthwhile! That slow change is one of the delights of the novel - I started out disliking the unpleasant, superior Chu Wanning and cruel, callow Mo Ran and then I loved them so so hard and cried for them so so hard and was in awe of their heroism and sacrifice and selflessness and capacity to love.

Oh, and the fact that this novel does something almost impossible - it has its protagonist start out as so clearly irredeemable and then slowly and painfully and thoroughly redeems him (without ever letting the reader forget what it is he needs redemption for.) Also, for a novel that made me cry so hard I felt ill, this book is just so damn funny with the most sarcastic sense of humor imaginable (the serious angst doesn’t even kick in until 90+ chapters!) Anyway I should stop or I will write a dissertation. But this is the one web novel that I would put in my top 5 not just web novels but any novels in any shape or form. The plentiful trigger warnings are there for a reason so stay away if they are an issue, but if not, if anyone hasn’t read it yet, what are you doing with your life?!

[psychology-department]

trans protagonist theory and ayin lobcorp- a small character analysis

(lobcorp spoilers + slight ruina/leviathan spoilers under the cut)

A couple nights ago, I saw this tumblr post by @/somekindofsentience which coined a term called trans [protagonist] theory, regarding the changing of narrative roles of main characters. It comes in two flavors, PtA, and its inverse, AtP.

PtA (protag to antag) can happen in several ways, one of which is to discover something about yourself that likens you to evil, or starting with a goal and just getting more and more unreasonable with it. knowing that what they are doing can be considered "evil" or morally reprehensible in their universe.

PtA is a trope often not done well because they're usually just protags painted to be sympathetic and/or naive antiheroes/antags. Occasionally, following them on their goals, and feeling what they feel downplays villainous traits, can't say i'm not guilty of writing that, bc i am an author, and authors are imperfect.

AtP (antag to protag) also usually involves a change in mindset and understanding of self to railroad them into different perspectives, and sometimes go hand in hand in replacing each other's role they 'transitioned from' (or not depending on narrative).

Ayin and PtA

In Greek tales, the hero is tragic, with a flaw that ends up costing everything, driving them to become an antagonist in their stories. It usually serves as a moral lesson in how one trait considered “villainous” can end up causing destruction and death on a large scale. The morally gray nature of humanity can cause debate on what's “good” or “evil,” or whether or not one leads to another, blurs, or overlaps.

The story of A’s ideals goes from being shown as just wanting to continue a shared ideal to day 48, where it is revealed that for this entire time, he was only doing it for the sake of making it up to Carmen, and Carmen only.

Ayin can be said to be an example of a greek tragic hero. He is too stubborn and dedicated to his goal, he didn’t stop to look back on all the death and destruction caused by him following Carmen’s dream in his way, and though he (briefly) considered these consequences, he still continued to trudge on in spite of these traits made to be flaws. He knew, even by a little, that what he was about to do was going to make him seem bad, but went on.

His viewpoint of the world and himself did not change after everything, but stayed the same (sacrifices are necessary), and it’s not because it stayed the same that was most of the problem. it was his actions.

His actions, which at first seem like just accidental neglect, add up to a list of infractions of letting those he cared about the most along with many innocent lives die, injured, or neglected. It is the journey that he takes which makes his reasoning more and more unreasonable to the viewer, the more you go into the game.

The reason why Ayin is such a good PtA (assuming you played the games in order) is not only because you get to sympathize with what he did, Project Moon also made sure that his morally reprehensible traits aren't downplayed, with Angela's narrative in LoR. It avoids the naive protagonist trope, while also being somewhat sympathetic.

Ayin and AtP

One thing I did not mention about AtP earlier is that characters could also be their own antagonist to protagonist, seeking to atone for their previous actions. Ayin feels extremely guilty over the things that he did, and wants to free himself from the guilt after all is done.

…and so, as The Manager, he does. He manages the Sefirot and helps them calm down from their suppressions, making both parties learn lessons from each other and slowly but steadily changing his role in the story to be more aligned with the protagonist.

I believe that throughout the loops, he slowly changes from just wanting to make it up to carmen, to making it up to others, even if those attempts were not successful. (such as with Angela, which he had forgotten about. I believe there’s no do-over for things like that.)

Even in the light, he continues to try and help the people realize and (indiscriminately) continue their goals without giving into despair with EGO, still trying to make things up to others. He apologizes to Angela up there, too.

His goals are still the same (SoL), but his understanding of everything changes, which leads him down the AtP pipeline of trying to learn his lessons through the Sefirot learning theirs, and to do better. If given enough time for character development, who knows what else he would have done to further this path of redemption.

Ayin, the antagonist, perpetuates a cycle of suffering of death, neglect and suffering. By playing Lobcorp, Ayin tries to break that very cycle that he put everyone and himself through with his own hands. He is the start of the conflict, but also the end of the conflict. He is a PtA, but also an AtP, even if his attempts at redemption are only partially successful. This complexity is, in my opinion, what makes him such a well-written character.

[immaterial-pearl]

Recs of my fav things with mental illness/trauma/neurodiversity representation that lets their characters be unpleasant and full people:-).

These are a collection of things I personally found relateable, over the course of my life. Almost all of these are aimed at adults (but not all!) and it's okay to disagree with me on wether these are good or not, but I put them on this list because I like them and I like how they portray complex mentally ill characters.

Here’s a randomizer that picks one at random!!!

Pieta, by Nanae Haruno. Genre: josei manga (josei is manga aimed at women, usually ones in their 20's). Two girls who struggle with mental health fall in love.

Dungeon Meshi, dir. Yoshihiro Miyamjima, original story by Ryoko Kui. Genre: fantasy anime. After his sister is eaten by a dragon, a man does his best to get her body back and revive her. In order to survive he decides to cook monsters with his party, instead of trying to travel with food from outside of the dungeon. Personal note: autism meshi. My personal favourite is Kabru, because he's literaly me when it comes to Being Totally Normal About Human Interaction.

Burnt Sugar, by Avni doshi. Genre: literary novella. A woman starts losing her grip on reality as her mother starts losing her memory. My personal opinion: it's just amazing, god, one of my favourite books ever, no book ever portrayed psychosis in such a personally relateable way, even tho I differ from the protag on so many levels.

Promising Young Woman, dir. Emerald Fennel. Genre: a deconstruction of revenge films. A woman traumatised by her friends suicide tries to avenge her.

Simon Snow triology, by Rainbow Rowell. Genre: ya fantasy and romance, deconstruction of chosen one stories, wizard school. Note: the exploration of ptsd mostly happens in book 2 and 3. The first book differs both in subject matter and tone, and was written originally as a stand alone. A typical chosen one protag defies the narrative set on him. Personal note: the way trauma reflected on protag's relationship with sex was so well thought out. Reread this out of nostalgia recently and found myself stunned on how uniquely well it's written.

Fleabag, screeplay by Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Genre: dark comedy, drama. A woman who seems aware of the fourth wall tries to cope with her best friend’s death.

Revolutionary Girl Utena, dir. Ikuhara Kunihiko. Genre: magical girl anime deconstruction, fairy tale deconsturction, psychological horror. A girl who wants to become a prince gets tangled in messy drama of the student council, after she wins a duel and accidentally becomes engaged to a girl they refer to as the rose bride. Personal note: FAVOURITE SHOW EVER, a queer classic, ectetera, the most complex show ever written in my personal opinion, the entire narrative is about patriarchy's evils, and damn, no show since did it better imo.

Boy meets Maria, by Peyo. Genre: romance manga. A boy falls in love with a member of his high school's theatre, who turns out to be a boy.

The Locked Tomb, by Tamsyn Muir. Genre: sci-fi fantasy horror. In a planet system of necromancers, a girl from a planet with a single living necromancer gets picked to be said necromancers swordwoman, when she tries to become a saint. Personal note: you will not believe the amount of Insane Undead Lesbians this series has. READ IT.

Bojack Horseman, main writer Raphael Bob Waksberg. Genre: dark comedy, animated sitcom. A horse/man way past his prime still lives off of money from playing in a 90’s sitcom.

My Lesbian Experience With Loneliness, by Nagata Kabi. Genre: manga memoir. A depressed woman who has trouble with forming relationships tries to have her first time with a sex worker.

Pinky and Pepper forever, by Eddy Atoms. Genre: horror, dark comedy comic. Two art student girlfriends try to survive art school, and later meet again in hell.

A pale view of hills, by Kazuo Ishiguro. Genre: literary fiction. An imigrant woman, recalls her first pregnancy and a short friendship she had back in Japan.

Neon Genesis Evangelion, dir. Hideaki Anno. Genre: mecha anime, psychological horror. A boy is forced to pilot a robot by his absent father who runs a para-military organisation. Personal notes: second favourite anime of mine, every character is their own shade of unwell, there is a reason this is a classic.

Fight Club, by Chuck Palachniuk. Genre: thiller, literary fiction. A white collar man loses his apartment and moves in with his strange working class friend. Personal note: even if you've seen the film, read the original.

The Bell Jar, by Sylvia Plath. Genre: literary fiction, semi-memoir. A talented writer fights her suicidality and depression.

Crying in H-Mart, by Michelle Zauner. Genre: memoir. The author recalls her mother's last months and death.

My Dark Vanessa, by Kate Elizabeth Russel. Genre: literary fiction. After her ex teacher is accused of sexual assault, a woman recalls her high school romance with him. Personal note: this is heavily inspired by Lolita, and even though I've read both I kind of prefer this book, fight me.

Summer, 1993, dir. Carla Simón. Genre: drama. A young girl spends her first summer in a new home after her parents die. Personal note: good representation of a young child processing trauma is so rare!!!!

My Broken Mariko, by Hirako Waka. Genre: josei manga. After her friend's death, a woman goes out of her way to find out why she died, disbelieving her friend would kill herself.

Everything, everywhere, all at once, dir. Daniel Kwan and Schienert. Genre: sci-fi. A woman discovers multiverse time travel while trying to do her taxes, and processes her troubled relationship with her daughter.

[windor-truffle]

ok I have come to a delightfully stupid conclusion of Asbel's tastes in media based on two of the DLC skits I mentioned yesterday:

The first is this silly one about manga, specifically a volume of the Sunscreen Rangers franchise that even Sophie and Malik are invested in (which means that the only party members who don't have any interest in it are Asbel and Cheria, going off of previous skits from L&L). Asbel is nonjudgmental of Hubert's taste but also obviously disinterested which I always found entertainingly ironic, that the most power-of-friendship Tales of protag has zero interest in shounen 😅 But apparently he used to read a lot of SOME type of manga, of a genre that is notably different from shounen. Maybe the opposite, even 🌸✨💖✨🌸

Believe it or not there's another skit that lends some credit to my theory! 😂 Asbel's ideas of what a graduation looks like are rather specific and cliched:

These kinds of tropes tend to occur in the high school drama/slice of life subgenre, and they're certainly more common in "girl's manga" as it were. So, in conclusion, Asbel likes 🌸~shoujo~🌸 Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

[jeannereames]

Hero Alexander vs. The Real Alexander

Moving to the second half of a recent question:

And if I'm not wrong, you mention at one place that you don't "heroize" Alexander. That's interesting, since he's often worshiped as a mythical hero. Why did you move away from that?

As a writer (and a reader), I’ve always been intrigued by the challenge of humanizing the “inhuman” (which can also include the ridiculously talented).

When I fell in love with Tolkien as a girl, I wanted to know what it would be like to be an elf, to have magic, to live that long, etcetera. Maybe that’s also why I always preferred Marvel superheroes over DC. Their hallmark was to make the fantastic (mutants, etc.) more human.

Now, I love me some traditional mythopoetic fantasy, but I’m no good at producing it myself. What is mythopoetic style? Peter Beagle, Patricia McKillip, Nancy Springer, C.J. Cherryh’s sidhe novels, my friend Meredith Ann Pierce … and of course Tolkien himself, where magic is real and magical creatures are…well, magical. Inhuman. Elves … not hobbits. Like a fairy tale…a myth (hence “mythopoetic”).

Anyway, I love reading that, but can’t write it to save my soul. When I write epic/historical fantasy (and I do see SFF as my home genre), it’s closer to anthro SF than to any mythopoetic style. My current MIP (monster-in-progress) is a 6-book series set on a secondary world where two branches of humanity survived, one of which, the Aphê, have super-convenient prehensile tails. 😊 The character journey for one of the protags across the first three novels is to recognize the Aphê as human and fallible rather than as a “noble savage” wise people. (Yes, questions of “What does it mean to be ‘civilized’?” are among the series themes.)

When it comes to historical fiction, I take the same tack. Alexander is interesting to me because he was a real person who accomplished extraordinary things.* What might he have been like in real life?

Making him too perfect—good at everything, no/few mistakes (just misunderstood), always honorable, etc., bores me. That’s the Alexander of his own marketing campaign. (laugh) It was adopted and refined by some later historians such as Arrian, and Plutarch in his rhetorical pieces (less in the Life but still there). That’s why I’m not a huge fan of Renault’s Alexander, and generally prefer her other Greek novels. Manfredi and (sorta) Pressfield do the same. Tarr and Graham also keep him deliberately at a distance to allow him to remain heroized, but it bothers me less because he’s at a distance. (Btw, I do not dislike Renault's ATG novels; they're just not among my favorites, either on Alexander, or of hers.)

Yet I’m not a fan of the other approach, either: to “humanize” him by taking him down a notch—making him NOT all that, just lucky (Lucian, and Nick Nicastro). Or by upending the heroic narrative altogether and turning him into a megalomaniacal “wicked tyrant” ala Pompeius Trogus/Justin or Seneca (and Chris Cameron).

I want something (and someone) more relatable, even while letting him remain truly astonishing. To humanize the “inhuman.” I realize that’s a challenge as, the moment we do humanize him, it removes him from the realm of the hero, which in turn makes it harder to allow him to be “all that.” For some, any fault is “too much”—the proverbial clay feet—because they’re desperate to have an idol, a hero…not a person. So the haters come out when, for instance, Simone Biles pulled out of the Olympics for mental health and the Twisties. How dare she!

I’m interested in the person. Even if Alexander wanted to be Herakles Take II, he wasn’t inhuman (divine). He was just a guy, and for me, the fact he was “just a guy,” yet still accomplished all those extraordinary things, is the most remarkable part.

I’ll conclude with what I wrote at the end of the author’s note in the back of Dancing with the Lion: Rise (also available on the website):

In the end, whatever approach one takes to Alexander, whatever theories one subscribes to, more or less hostile to the conqueror, we are left with the man himself in all his complexity and contradiction. The phenomenon called “Alexander the Great” has evoked vastly different interpretations from his era to ours. It’s tempting to seek internal consistency for his behavior, or to force it when it can’t be found. Yet no one is consistent. Even more, history itself is distorted by those recording it in order to serve their unique political narratives, whether then or now. Conflicting politics create competing narratives, and histories of Alexander were (and are) especially prone to such distortions. That, in turn, brings us back to where we began: history (like historical fiction) is about who we are now, and what it’s possible for us to become. So Alexander was neither demon nor god, whatever he wanted to believe about himself. He was a man, capable of cruelty and sympathy, brilliance and blindness, paranoia and an open-handed generosity. As remarkable as he was, he was human. And that's what makes him interesting.

--------------------

* That some of these extraordinary things would be—and should be—reviled by modern standards is part of the uncomfortable contradiction, and legacy, of the ancient world. This is something I also try to depict in the novel. So there is never a “simple win” in a battle. There’s something ugly shown in or as a result of every single one. On purpose. Battle is, and should be, deeply disturbing.

[tdcloud]

A master of the Gothic, the romantic, and the premiere stan of the #faustopheles ship as a whole, @ghostpoetics knows a good time when they see one. Check out what they had to say about INFAUST and while you're at it, keep an eye out for their upcoming book THE SAINT OF HEARTBREAK as well. I had the honor of reading an ARC and it's just what the doctor ordered if you've ever felt a little too much about Judas Iscariot.

Infaust is a dark romance recounting the tale of the witch Rehan Nadir and the elusive chaos god known only as the Piper. Trapped in a world where even the very dirt wants them dead, the two must depend on one another to escape—and along the way realize that perhaps the definition of a happily ever after really is a subjective one.

Contains psychological horror, violence, dubious consent, protag corruption, villain "love interest", blood, descriptions of being burnt alive, and other gruesome acts. Viewer discretion is advised.

Order Now: https://amazon.com/dp/B0CRX5M7TX

[keykidpilipili]

Stacy's Mom/Past incarnation /Unsundered has got it going on!

This has been in my files and I forgot to post it whoopsie. [ID: Venn diagram with four circles. The top left one is Emet-Selch’s from final fantasy XIV. His non overlapping section has the captions Empires How to build and then topple them, real popular on twitter, greasy old man and but come let us cast aside title and pretense and reveal our true faces to to one another I am hades he who shall awaken our brethren from their dark slumber in all caps. The bottom left is Pearl from Steven Universe, her non shared section has the captions canon lesbian, made of light, alien and good gal. The bottom right circle is Jack from Pandora Hearts, his non shared section has the captions borrowed powers, weak af when not playing 4d chess, twist antagonist, does not care for the protag. The top right one is Salem from RWBY, her solo section has the captions probably not the end antagonist of the show, outsmarted two god and ‘why couldn’t you break up like normal people? Why did you have to get everyone involved?’. Emet and Pearl’s shared section has the captions Survived apocalypse with 2 coworkers, tech user, can fuse, owns phone, giant person in all caps, excolonialist, underestimates humans and can clone themselves. Pearl and Jack’s shared section has the captions Liar, worked hard on their presentation, song writers, first love on a sky-high pedestal, teal. Emet and Salem’s shared section has the captions had kids, red and black, darkness, fucked up moon, sorcerer/sorceress of eld, hate light-based deity, my kind of human is better than yours, why do you(my ex) keep coming back. Salem and Jack’s shared section has the captions used to be human, not allowed to die, traumatized children, fairy tale symbolisms, blonds, reason for main character’s mom disappearing/dying, wants to end the world and themselves with it. Salem, Pearl and Emet’s shared section has the captions wont die when killed and old AF. The Emet-Salem-Jack section has antagonists while the Pearl-Jack-Emet one has theater. The Salem-Pearl-Jack section has the text writers. The section shared by all four has the text Dated/had a thing for the protag’s dead parent/ancestor/past incarnation. END ID]

[somethingsomethingeyyymacarena]

Which fic should I work on? Vote for the options at the end of the post

[Image ID: white woman covering her face with her hands in frustration. in front of a computer, surrounded by crumbled up papers. End ID]

Ya boy having a mental breakdown over what fic to work on. So its up to you beautiful people to decide for me! Under every option you'll have the lenght, the summary and the main characters. Choose wisely.

LET THE GAMES BEGING

Option 1 - THE ORACLE APPRENTICE

Ongoing/Multi chapt

Main characters are Barbara Gordon and Damian Wayne

Plot revolves in a pre-52 like timeline where Damian got shot by Deathstroke in the spine while on the League. Which led his mother to send him to Barbara Gordon, Bruce had died while fighting the Red Hood.

Option 2 - UNSPOKEN

Ongoing/Multi chapt

Main characters are Damian and Steph

A sort of Reverse Robins AU where an Late 20s!Damian battles his own demons after his parents death. As he sturggles on taking up the cowl, he also runs into Stephanie Brown, a homeless teen mom he decided to open up his house to. Who might be an important piece of the puzzle to solve his father's murder

Option 3 - THE MAIDENS

Ongoing/Multi chapt

Main characters are Komand'r, Talia Al Ghul, Artemis Grace, Sara Lance and Poison Ivy (Aka The Maidens)

A team up with the aforementoned characters. Takes place after the events of shadow war. Talia struggles with her new life as a runaway. An interdimesional time traveller offers her an opportunity of stepping out the demon's shadow.

Option 4 - HER NAME WAS ELLA

One shot

Main characters are Cassandra Cain and Damian Wayne

An exploration of how two victims of similars type of abuse can have completely different takes on what happened to them. And how both can come to an understanding despite that. Using the tale of Cinderella as a jumping off point.

Option 5 - NOSOCOMEPHOBIA

Longshot

Duke Thomas is the protag

Duke finally allows hismelf to admit that he's not ok. His old phobia of hospitals comes creeping in after an incident. An explroation of denial and mental health

Option 6 - A BEAR-TIFUL LIFE

Longshot

Bruce Wayne x Clark Kent ship

Snapshots of Bruce and Clark's relantionship with the fraiming device of Bruce accepting hismelf as a member the gay bear subculture.

AND NOW.... THE POLL

[sunnydaleherald]

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Thursday, December 5th and Friday, December 6th - Part Two

[Fandom Discussions]

Xander is such a motherfucker by casually-french

s5 Buffy episodes: a wild ride (½) by hesitationmarx

if Jenny had lived and Xander had gotten to see two adults in a healthy, committed relationship by ilosttrackofthings

i’ve been rewatching buffy and i forgot how dark season 6 is by joecool2002

the thing that’s so crucial to me about willow bringing buffy back from the dead is ... by lesbianmarrow

peoples hate for angel but love for spike is soooo funny by mortalandstupid

Spike is a plan that went very, very awry by tobiasdrake

did the writers of ats s5 actually finish watching btvs?? by loveblindaddict

I am once again thinking about how buffy summers handles forgiveness by pelorsdyke

Xander was the OG monster fucker by snakey-sorrow

Off screen nightmares? by thrasherpix

Scoobtober: Most Dangerous Villain in the Buffyverse? continued by thetopher

The Conflicts of BTVS continued by thetopher and thrasherpix

This Character or That Character? continued by multiple posters

Any ideas on what could have been done with Doyle if Glenn Quinn wasn't fired? continued by JoeZen and Priceless

[No Spoilers] btVS s2 first watch continued by Vampiricspikes and others

this episode [The Ring] was so weird by hatchbackkk

The reunion by hatchbackkk

What do you think of Wesley being in charge of Angel Investigations in late season two and half of season three? by jdpm1991

Am I crazy or does Angel walk around in the day? by moonrevolts

Can’t help but wonder how Buffy & the scoobies would handle wolfram & hart by hatchbackkk

Jenny Calendar, a character who was forgotten by FoxIndependent4310

Something from the Buffyverse that you wanted more of? by PristineSituation498

If Buffy and Angel hadn't been on different networks from Season 6, do you think the story would've been told any differently? by Ok_Area9367

S3:E9 The Wish by Pristine-Dame

Oz is an absolute GOLDMINE of eminently quotable dialogue. Love that dude! by Jdobbs626

Not what I was expecting by BeginningBrief1902

"Kick his ass" being brought up later always makes me so sad for Buffy and Willow by sansaeverdeen

I’m in the middle of Season 6 and I’m (once again) fighting for my life! by tracee_

Now this I'd like to see! [Interview with a Vampire shoot with ASH and JM] by AxelNoir

Buffy is a considerably stronger and more effective slayer for having friends, so why is the notion of having a support system frowned upon by the Watcher's council? by shadow_spinner0

Once More with Feeling [Sweet] by BL4CKSH4RK7

Big Bad Council by areyouyerman

Comics by melbreddituser

Buffy is a top tier show by Ok_Reference2122

Do Buffy and Angel still have feelings for each other ?? by Urfavredhead11

The Tale of Two Xanders by Marsoupilami777

People feeling like Spike isn't that different with or without a soul... by youngatbeingold

Is Angel “Lazy” for this? by Physmo55

Buffy (the character) has the best balanced writing of any protag I've seen on TV by SquiglySaws

Did Willow face any repercussions for being dark? by SpeedHot3049

Olaf by Unimatrix_Zero_One

What Buffy moment makes you feel like this? by AxelNoir

Once More With Feeling... Where'd my fansub go?? 😩 by Pezito77

Anya by Unimatrix_Zero_One

this scene 3 [Willow in The Body] by angelofmeatt

What's something you struggle to understand as a fan? by PristineSituation498

Any info on Willow’s amazing velvet dress? by seasidedaisies

The Initiative by Flashy-Gap1538

The Scoobies vs Angel Investigations - who would you prefer to protect your family? by BookerTea3

What’s each character’s Prom Dress Moment? by InternetAddict104

In "Enemies", Faith says the reason she hates Buffy is all because of jealousy, when do you think was the boiling point? by shadow_spinner0

so... what was up with white witch willow? by opalonelia

After OMWF, why is anyone surprised to find out Buffy felt something for Spike? (TW: suicide) by ElephantWorldly5010

Thoughts on something Spuffy by drinkitandgo

I know I shouldn't laugh, but I must confess that I cackled like a hyena at this one.... [Pangs] by Jdobbs626

Video: Little Red Buffy Hood Comes of Age by Fairy Tales and Fangs

Podcast: Small Bites: Missed Connections by A Girl, A Guy and A Buffy Podcast

[Articles, Interviews, and Other News]

Podcast: Buffy Rewatch Episode - Villains with Adam Busch by Boys Watching Buffy

Submit a link to be included in the newsletter!

Join the editor team :)

[yanderefairyangel]

I recommend you watch this video because honestly it sums up so many of my gripes with how female characters are written or perceived by fandom and why the girlboss type of character has started to get on everyone's nerves

That being said

At some point Op mentions "feminist" retellings, notably as wanting to give silenced women a voice which she doesn't dwell too much into (understandable considering the thesis) and seeing how a lot of what she says in general can apply to them anyway so I am recc another video that nailed it regarding greek myth retellings notably that dwell more into this question specifically

That being said something I noticed and that wasn't necessarily said outloud by both of these videos which kind of exasperate me when it comes to female protag in modern power fantasy is how they very often fall both in being just toxic masculinity masquerading as feminism because these traits are put into a female character and also the perfect victim at the same time

Allow me to take an example using the premise of a greek myth retelling, Galatea by Madelline Miller

For those who don't know the story, Pygmalion is a sculptor who felt disgusted by women upon learning of the Propoetides's behavior and decided to remain single. However he ends up making a statue of a woman so perfect he fell in love with it and eventually prayed to Aphrodite who made the statue into a human, the two married, had kids and lived happily ever after.

So Pygmalion was basically the first guy in history to ever have a waifu, and the tale is very similar in premise to Pinocchio (but not really tho it's a topic for another day)

However, you can sense there is something off putting about a man who believes all women are like the Propoetides and ends up falling for a woman perfectly fit for him because she isn't like these other women, in that aspect wanting to critically examines the misogynistic implications of the tale make sense

However, have you noticed what Miller does to achieve this end ? In the myth, the couple was perfectly happy, but in her retelling Miller turns Pygmalion into an abusive husband and Galatea into a woman yearning for independence and having to free her shackles from her husband.

Granted, when you see how Pygmalion behaves towards the women of Cyprus and that he isn't really challenged on that belief, you could think such behavior makes sense. However, this specific narrative choices results in Galatea still being portrayed as a victim that she wasn't in the myth. But not any type of victim, one that craves for agency now that she has been given live but who cannot attain it because of a man, so she has to find a way to get to her goal.

That would be an approach to challenge the myth however, it still relies on making Galatea the helpless victim and Pygmalion the abuser, perptuating the notion that women are victims who can't attain their goal of freedom because of the evil men in their lives, so this supposedly bold retelling is in reality cliched given this is this exact same schema every single YA retelling uses for absolutely any stories, but also doesn't really sound feminist since it's once again just perpetuating the idea women are nothing but victims

This retelling is also tagged as historical, maybe implying this is the condition of women back then, but when you combine this one to the many others novels using this exact same narrative theme, schema, structure etc it really makes you think that women were nothing but victims discontent of their own situation and it will always be the case if we don't take down the patriarchy and yadi yada. This ignore that the place of women in society, while undeniably in a position of lesser power compared to men, wasn't as black and white as these retellings might indicate it is. Furthemore, when you consider the fact these schema are so manufactured they get slapped unto every story ever, the whole point about taking down the patriarchy feels nothing more than a slogan made to gain not women's heart, but their wallet.

We have discussed that at lenght in classes I have at uni, but sometimes the abudance of these types of stories feels less like passion project and more like editiorial strategy because using the thematics of "women being oppressed by the patriarchy "is what gives you the most money since you sell wish fufillement to the prime demographic of people being affected by this problem, again this is what I complained about in my Rosaline posts, this is nothing but wish fufillement "feminism" which is very different from the real deal. It doesn't challenge the notion that women are weak, it has to put them into these positions to then show them as overcoming this weakness. Obviously, when you want to make a commentary on something that is unavoidable, but in the case of these retellings, when you first reflex is to do that to any female characters, doesn't that show you genuinely believe that women of these times were all oppressed and the only reason why any of them could revel on their role was because of AP ?

"Galatea couldn't have been happy with Pygmalion because of the implications of the text" is nothing but ONE interpretation of the story, but it isn't inherently the most feminist, especially when we end up having yet another character turned into a damsel in distress that has to escape her now turned antagonist love interest

There could have been plenty of other ways to tackle these issues for instance giving Pygmalion the character arc he didn't had in the story by having him being challenged by Galatea's behavior of not being the perfect women he imagined but still comming to terms with that, not viewing people as an object and that's how they achieved the happy marriage they had in the myth for instance

Or on the contrary, having Galatea perform as the perfect wife Pygmalion expects of her but as time passes, he comes to question it and the two's relationship enables Galatea to find her own way to express herself as an individual, breaking through her shackles as a woman who used to be a statue thanks to her husband, allowing him also to grow in the process and thereby explaning how they achieved the happy marriage they had in the myth

They are many ways to achieve this without having to assume that Galatea must be in reality unhappy behind the scene and that her only way to achieve happiness is by being independant which in turns put her husband into the position of abuser, antagonist, so women good and men bad all over again which results in inauthentic talking points

That's by no mean saying doing itself is bad, it's within the context of turning a woman who wasn't a victim of any injusitices in the story into one for the sake of parroting the same point all over again, it creates manifactured heroines who aren't allowed to have any other struggle in their lives than the fear of a controlling husband and while I get that this is the type of anxiety many women will face, this schema of needing the woman to be victim of something is genuinely tiring, especially when they are supposed to be both victims and also "not like your other girls" type of girls who are strong, independant, strong headed etc.

Again, a good example could be Blood of Hercules, a book who most probably embodies every issue within the genre. Alexis (our genderbend Hercules) is portrayed as being a victim of parental abuse from her foster parents, but even after her mother dies and her father gets arrested, her suffering isn't over. She gets into Spartian academy and she is being constantly belittled, insulted, hated, humiliated etc by every character, most notably her 4 love interests such as Achilles, Not Patroclus, Charon and a dude named Augustus. They are even violent towards her, unhealthly obsessed with her to the point they send her body parts of the people who are too close to her and get in a frenzy of jealousy whenever she mentions her own foster brother's name. So basically, we have the typical dark romance fantasy of toxic love interest pursuing a regular girl, but despite her conditions, Alexis is also portrayed as supposedly a girl boss because she has a sassy companion snake, she say stuff like "free the nipples" or rather think it, she throws a bit of nagging in her own thoughts and she also has a quirck of liking math so much she is in the math fandom. She is also insanly beautiful but no one will admit it because they all hate her but they are all also obsessed with her

To put it simply this character is an absolute paradox mixing many elements of YA tropes that don't necessarily work well together. For instance, having a girl boss character in a dark romance/non-con/stalker is going to create dissonance because these are two fantasies that are not meant to work on a single work : the latter is based on the fantasy that someone has in wanting to engage freely in their desire but framing it in a specific way so that the reader doesn't have to feel guilty of wanting to engage in these "dirty" thoughts and desires, while the former is about feeling powerful, pure power. One is about being in a position of vulnerability for the time being and enjoy an experience under the guise of role playing, the other is about feeling powerful, strong in ways that society might or might not approve of you. These two position do not work, while one single individual might fantasize about both, a fictional work has to have some limits in order to work and seem consistent. As a result, Alexis ends up feeling like a cheap "feminist girlboss" character because while she supposedly says things that would indicated that she is "strong" the story constantly puts her in situation where she is "weak" because she is in the position of a victim in order to fufill the fantasy aspects of the dark romance.

It's also worth noting that in this book, Alexis is quite young, she is the youngest of the main important characters. This age factor is important to consider regarding this type of literature. On one side it comes from the self inserting elements where the readership is given a female character that has about the same age as the readership. On the other side, it's basically what Tale Foundry describes when talking about the "perfect victim". The perfect victim is young, beautiful, she never does anything wrong because she is the victim.

Take Medea by Rosie Hewlet, in it Medea is turned into an innocent girl who had dreams of escaping her abusive life, manifesting into Jason who manipulates her into doing terrible things, but most importantly, she is young. Like she is like 17 at the begining of the story ? Medea in the myth wasn't that young, she had been married with Jason for 10 years so she was middle aged when Jason turns to Glauce. Medea isn't only put into a victim position which would somehow justify her actions towards her brother and father, she is also deprived of any agnecy and free will because she was being manipulated by Jason instead of accepting to serve a weaker man because of her love and committing the worst because of it, something that you know... made her actually complex. The myth never denied that what Jason did was bad, be it Euripides's adaptations or the other versions, it's in fact acknowledged by all, everyone agreed she was a victim, but sometimes victims rages and can do awful things. The concept of Medea as a character is interesting because she is both a victim but also a criminal, and challenges the idea that vicitms have to be pure to be victims, even someone who does heinous things can have our pity, and this is a lot more challenging for the reader to feel bad for a character who did bad things but is still in a position where you feel bad for them than a character who did nothing wrong at all and is being mistreated over it. I would by no means call Medea a feminist character. After all, she kills another woman and her own two children to get back at her husband instead of killing him, something that happens a lot in mythology (Philomela and Procne, for instance don't take revenge on Tereus directly, instead they have to kill a child, Itys, and serve him as a meal to his father, and by the end of the myth they still have to escape HIS furry, not the other way around. I think it has to do with how greek myth are influenced by the gender norms where a woman even if she is a goddess like Hera, can never directly take it on the man who wronged her, instead she has to hurt him in indirect way).

But taking a female character and removing her agency for the sake of making her crave agency is a strange way to achieve it, and further fits the mold of "women can be nothing but victims", where they have to be put in a position of weakness no matter what, in this include making them younger.

The same thing can be said about Ava Reidd's Lady Macbeth. In the play, she was an unconventional villain whose motivations weren't tied to jealousy unlike Medea, but ambition, like her husbands. She is the one who pushes him to accept his destiny and even force it. But in this retellings, Lady Macbeth has no agnency at all because the tale becomes about overthrowing the partriarchy... again... with Macbeth being the one ordering Roscille to use her power to help him attain his ambitions while Roscille has none or rather, she had your typical girlboss forced in a victim position amibitions, you know ? Like Galatea... and also, she had a little trip to the jouvencia cure and is now a teenager because of course, the victim HAS to be young and beautiful etc.

Other example, Phaedra by Laura Shepperson. How does one retell the story of a woman who fall in love with her step-son from a feminist angle you might ask ? Well, in this version, Phaedra is turned into a young girl whose victimized because of her family being cursed by Poseidon, married unwillingly to much older Theseus and assaulted by Hippolytus. Yep, the lie of the source myth where Phaedra falsely accuses him of having assaulted her because he rejected her advances is now not a lie at all, meaning that the victim of the original story is now the perpretator. What does it say if not "women can never do anything wrong, they are naught but innocent victim of the evil men around them ?"

Phaedra is given a personality "worthy of a victim", she is made younger to look like the perfect victim and is again put into a position of victimhood she didn't had in the story. I can't even excuse the desire to talk about "justice" and the topic of SA, because it wasn't what the story was about and that there are PLENTY of myths that would have been BETTER to handle this topic, like Lucrere or Philomena. Phaedra on the other hand ? It turns Hippolytus, the victim of Phaedra's incestuous love and later of her lies, into an abuser. Yes, I am aware his dedication to Artemis and disdain of love reeks of sexism, but again : a victim doesn't have to be perfect to deserve that label and calling Phaedra "one of the most maligned figures of mythology and offers a stunning story of how truth bends under the weight of patriarchy" shows the lack of self awareness when it's precisely because Theseus believes her he ends up killing his son. Claiming that somehow the idea that Phaedra lied was a lie is just perptuating the idea that women can do no wrong and that they are always the victim.

This is also true of Fair Rosaline which has to give Rosaline, a character we know nothing about, the young age of 15/16 to then make her fall prey to a now 30 yeard old Romeo to make the point that Romeo was bad for Juliet, a character infantilized in this take to make her a damsel in distress.

I can quote many more example, notably Miller's Circe where the goddess like sorceress is turned into a victim as well to explain why she is "evil" and not try to find any other explanation for what she does because I can assure you that sometimes we like witches that act on whims (Beato for instance)

Webtoons as well follow this trend, I don't wanna bring back Go Away Romeo although this desire for female character to be seen as both victims and girlboss, two contradictory ideas, in order to present a "strong female character" but as a result they produce flat character that feel inhuman

My point here is that if we keep making a certain type of stories, especially when regarding a corpus that is very diverse we are going to end up with the same stories over and over. None of these characters feels unique, they feel so interchangeable. And again, I can't stress it enough so many of these tropes are just sexism all over again but painted with a cover of "feminisit" paint to make it sound like it's indeed progressive

I wouldn't be so critical of them if the readership didn't just eat it all up, but we need to be critical about these types of retellings, especially since we are so critical of the work of the past

[dailycass-cain]

I'm just as surprised as you are to find out Cass had an appearance in DC's How to Lose a Guy Gardner in 10 Days #1, and not in the way I was expecting.

Was it good or a pass?

Well...

Cass appears in "Date Night" in the anthology story which is more a Dick/Babs story about well the two of them going out on a date. Cass and Steph are basically on a mission checking out something Babs had an inkling things would be bad.

Things do end up being bad.

Alright, I'll just jump in about said bad.

Yeah, this is a supporting role for Cass (along with Steph) in the story. I don't really mind that. Dick/Babs are the leads in this and I'm okay with that.

What I'm not okay with is how the story treats the two Batgirls as amateurs.

Okay, I get the "Scarecrow got the drop on them" opening because neither knew Crane was behind this until fear gas canisters were being loaded.

So that I don't mind. Mainly it's the sections of panels like above saying, "Make sure you do things like Dick is doing."

I didn't like it when Batgirls pulled this off in #5 when Babs showed up and it wore out its welcome in #7-8 (and the Catwoman #45 tie-in).

I get Cass/Steph are younger compared to Dick/Babs but they aren't "rookies". The year is 2024 not 2002.

Just cut down the dialogue to the first sentence. Bam, gripe solved. It's simple word fixing that gets fans of said characters off-backs because it at least treats the characters as being experienced rather than not.

We do get one whole page of Cass/Steph busting the criminals introduced earlier looking to take advantage of Scarecrow's schemes (aka the B-protags taking out the B-antags).

In all honesty, I think the reverse should've occurred. Dick/Babs taking out the B-antags (as they were introduced via being a few tables from them) and well Scarecrow gets his comeuppance from Steph-- AGAIN (or them/Dick being him with Bruce/Helena/Kate in "Shadow of the Bat".

I'm done being nitpicky so I'm gonna talk about the positives aka that whole page and how artist Leonardo Rodrigues draws a nice old-school Cass. No white eyes and we even get the bat fins on her gloves.

NICE.

I think the one detail I loved most was the yellow stitching which does make Cass's mask more striking.

The one page is also a nice little touch showcasing Cass/Steph getting SOME measure of respect by owning the B-antags.

In the end, this is a harmless "fluff" tale that's not gonna be much looked at like Cass's entry from Beast World Tour: Gotham a few months back. Both are kind of forgettable save the latter's being the first mention of her old origin (Steph's story really stole that one-shot).

I'd be more frustrated if this was Cass's only showing this week (it isn't) and really it's because of THE OTHER comic that makes me less cross.

Stephanie fans?

Oh, they deserve to criticize MORE on this.

As for it being a Dick/Babs story?

It's alright.

Nothing memorable as to "why" they work as a couple. They were both paranoid enough to know their date night was gonna get ruined. But at least they're both Bat enough to have "plans within plans."

So yeah, this story is just "there". Doesn't give us adequate Cass/Steph (because it isn't their story), and Dick/Babs stuff is "middle of the road".

Given where both characters are at the moment, yeah "middle of the road" will do.

[thewritersline]

Two Truths and a Lie

My first writeblr game! Thank you to @new-royston-cursebreakers for the tag! His poll is here.

I'll put a little bit about my wip first, since I haven't actually talked about it here.

Protag: Ignacio, adventurer dragon fighter blaggard and reluctant necromancer.

Background and motivation: He's been cursed with burning blood, scales, and other dragon-related suffering by a witch king. The curse can only be broken when Ignacio slays the dragon that had been tormenting the realm. This would be difficult enough, but to top it all off, the dragon died on it's own before Ignacio could get to it. Now Ignacio is searching for some way to bring the dragon back from the dead so he can kill it again and finally get back to his old life.

Setting: The world functions on fairy tale logic, where strange and disturbing things are considered normal and almost everyone who could be helpful is unnecessary cryptic. There're plenty of classic fairy tale characters, including talking animals, pixies, trolls, knights, princesses, witches in disguise, and many more.

Antag: Jack, a simple farm boy who's strangely proficient with a sword. He's the classic hero, chosen by fate to stop Ignacio from resurrecting the dragon that laid waste to their kingdom.

Now, on to the game!

I'm tagging @thegrindingwheel, @luminary-lines, @revenantlore, @storyteller-kara, @wintherlywords, and @zinabug-writes (or @zinabug if your side blog isn't linking properly).

[inkbane]

I've been obsessed with villainess manga lately, so I wanted to review the ones I've read so far. It's a fun new-ish genre so it's interesting to compare the ones that are out so far. See under the cut for the reviews.

My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom! (ongoing)

Read 9 Volumes  ||  Rating: 5/5

Review: The OG. Extremely cute and charming, all the characters are really loveable. I really like that the protagonist isn’t the typical shy, blushing flower that a lot of historical/fantasy romance manga use. She’s a weird, brash tomboy and her friends love her anyway.

Accomplishments of the Duke's Daughter (ongoing)

Read 8 Volumes  ||  Rating: 5/5

Review: If you’re weirdly nerdy about taxation systems and politics, this is the manga for you. Competence porn at its finest. The love interest is boring but he’s not heavily featured so far, and the protagonist makes up for it by being really good at her job.

The Most Heretical Last Boss Queen: From Villainess to Savior (discontinued)

Read 3 Volumes  ||  Rating: 5/5

Review: I’m so sad this one got discontinued. I think it might be getting another manga adaptation, but if it doesn’t, I still highly recommend reading this one. Really lovely found family. The protagonist is really insecure, but she loves her friends and family and just wants to take care of them <3<3<3

The Villainess Stans the Heroes: Playing the Antagonist to Support Her Faves! (ongoing)

Read 3 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4.5/5

Review: This one is surprisingly fun. The protagonist is a huge fan of the heroes, and it’s fun seeing her reactions to the new characters as the hero party grows. Also, the love interest is pure 14-year-old wish fulfillment is the best way.

7th Time Loop: The Villainess Enjoys a Carefree Life Married to Her Worst Enemy! (ongoing)

Read 4 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4.5/5

Review: Protagonist has lived multiple lives and uses her experience to problem solve. The love interest has become evil in her previous lives, but she doesn’t know why. I’m really interested to see where it goes. The love interest is a little weird, not sure how I feel about him yet.

I Swear I Won't Bother You Again! (ongoing)

Read 4 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4.5/5

Review: Protagonist tried to murder her half-sister and was put in jail, and was sent back in time to before she started bullying her sister. There’s two love interests, the prince and the childhood best friend. The prince is boring, but the best friend is cute and charming, and the protagonist is dealing with her guilt over her past actions.

I'm in Love with the Villainess (ongoing)

Read 5 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: Fun lesbian version of the typical villainess narrative. I like seeing the villainess warm up to the protagonist. The protag does rub me the wrong way a little bit, but overall quite enjoyable.

Villainess Level 99: I May Be the Hidden Boss But I'm Not the Demon Lord (ongoing)

Read 2 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: The villainess is really nerdy about levelling up and training in a really funny way. This one isn’t very long yet, but it’s charming so far.

Though I Am an Inept Villainess: Tale of the Butterfly-Rat Body Swap in the Maiden Court (ongoing)

Read 4 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: Villainess body-swap. The protagonist is a little bit boringly perfect, but the outfits and the court drama are really fun.

Tearmoon Empire (ongoing)

Read 3 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: Villainess gets reincarnated as her younger self after she gets guillotined. She’s charmingly self-serving, although everyone around her thinks she’s a genius and totally selfless.

I'm Giving the Disgraced Noble Lady I Rescued a Crash Course in Naughtiness: I'll Spoil Her with Delicacies and Style to Make Her the Happiest Woman in the World! (ongoing)

Read 3 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: Some good hurt/comfort in this one. The villainess is rescued by a wizard. The wizard protagonist is a little obnoxious, but it’s nice to see the villainess get some comfort and love.

The Do-Over Damsel Conquers the Dragon Emperor (ongoing)

Read 4 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: The protagonist has gone back in time into her child body, but she’s a total badass. I find the character really charming and the plot compelling. The only weirdness is the age difference between the grown adult love interest and the (ostensibly) child protagonist, but the romance is still really cute to me. I feel weird about this one but I do like it so idk

The Holy Grail of Eris (ongoing)

Read 6 Volumes  ||  Rating: 4/5

Review: The protagonist is haunted by the spirit of a dead villainess. The protagonist’s personality is very passive, and it’s fun to see how the two play off of each other. There’s also an interesting mystery to solve regarding the villaness’s death. The love interest is also charming.

Formerly, the Fallen Daughter of the Duke (ongoing)

Read 5 Volumes  ||  Rating: 3/5

Review: Protagonist has been replaced by her half-sister and runs away. Protagonist and love interest are both pretty boring. There’s some interesting side characters that never get flesh out. Very strange plot. Overall somehow both weird and mediocre.

I'm the Villainess, So I'm Taming the Final Boss (complete)

Read 3 Volumes  ||  Rating 3/5

Review: Protagonist gets dumped by prince, goes and asks the demon king to marry her. Art is cute, and it had potential, but ultimately it was pretty mediocre.

Also, the last three below only have 1 volume out in English so far, so I don't have reviews for them. But if you want to get in on the ground floor, these are just starting.

The Villainess Who Has Been Killed 108 Times: She Remembers Everything!

If the Villainess and Villain Met and Fell in Love

The Condemned Villainess Goes Back in Time and Aims to Become the Ultimate Villain