#Xichen makes no sense in this context

[winepresswrath]

I cannot decide whether make the Lans be eighth or sixth. I feel like sixth is the best match overall but their fun hating is essential because their biggest contribution to the plot is Lan Wangji.

[wutheringskies]

Lan-Furen's Case and Lan Zhan

A couple of days ago I came across an excellent meta on Lan Xichen over how by not "wanting to know" who is in the right and who is in the wrong, he is able to maintain a schrodinger's cat syndrome and assume the best of everyone. I thought more about what that then meant for Lan Wangji who visited his mother publicly every month.

Lan Wangji is an extremely righteous character. He has a temper against those that he deems as unrighteous. He can absolutely not take it if someone is using their privilege to oppress others; or if, someone is killing innocents for baseless, useless reasons.

Someone like Lan Wangji would not continue loving a person even if they act for their own gains, petty revenge or selfishly. Simply stating, he can't continue loving a person who has left the road of righteousness.

In his mother's case, it doesn't seem as if bigger forces (such as sect politics) were involved; but it was something personal. We do not know what that something was, thus we cannot judge. Thus, he cannot judge.

I believe his coming over to the Gentian House every month shows perhaps the most important characteristic of his:

Lan WangJi slowly shook his head, “One should not comment without understanding the whole picture.”

I find Lan Wangji and Nie Mingjue's insistence upon their sense of justice similar. Even in dire situations, where it seems stupid to act upon your sense of justice, when everyone around you is acting unjustly, they will insist - Lan Wangji stuck in a cave, injured, protecting someone who is being harassed by those who hold power, hunted down by enemies who are much higher on the social ladder, own much more money, and are many in numbers, despite knowing, inevitably it may cause his own demise and fall. Yet, he doesn't care about that. This happens twice. That's his sense of righteousness and justice. Similarly, Nie Mingjue is ready to kill himself as punishment for killing someone who saved him, yet he must kill Guangyao for killing his clansmen and stuff (so much killing with this guy.)

But Lan Wangji is better, as his justice is embedded with empathy, patience and true efforts to understand the entire story before placing his judgement. He's not free from making false judgements, and societal judgement does affect him.

But, he's not holding to any particular judgement to the ends of his life. He is willing to accept new facts and reform his opinion, reframe his thoughts. He's like that guy on twitter who tweeted something tone-deaf in 2012, but is completely against that in 2023, as now he has new information.

So, Lan Wangji doesn't incriminate people. He doesn't hold personal grudges. He is prone to hatred, jealousy and the stuff - that is what makes him human. But he rarely acts upon it, preferring to remove himself from the situation.

He is such a person.

So, it cannot be known whether the glass was filled and then emptied, or whether it was empty and then it was filled; what I mean is we can't judge from just a half-full/half-empty glass of what the context was; similarly, we can't judge from just the other's actions and situations alone of what the intention, purpose, reasoning, etc was. We can't judge evil or bad that easily, and with all those who were involved in Madam Lan's case - all their souls dispersed, and Lan Qiren being Lan Qiren, Lan Wangji can only judge on what he knows.

What he knows is that his mother was a lovely woman and he was happy to see her; so he visits her still. He is not accepting her actions, or incriminating them, as she is not there to defend herself or to accuse others. He doesn't know if the clan was wrong or if his mother was. I believe, with Lan Wangji's character, that he's strong enough to face the actions of those who he loves.

It’d be inconvenient for him to be more specific, such as Lan XiChen or Lan QiRen.

Lan WangJi answered assuredly, “No.”

Wei WuXian was quite confident in Lan WangJi’s answer. To him, Lan WangJi wasn’t the kind of person who’d hide or run away from the truth. If he denied it, that meant it must have been wrong. He didn’t like to lie, either. In Wei WuXian’s opinion, if someone asked Lan WangJi to lie, he’d rather silence himself and not talk at all. Thus, Wei WuXian immediately excluded the possibility of the gravedigger being these two.

So, this. If Lan Wangji felt any of Wei Wuxian's actions were uncalled for, or unrighteous and cruel, he wouldn't have loved him. But, even by the logic of Great Grudges, Wei Wuxian had every right to kill the Wens (the SSC ones).

But that's beyond the point. The point is that Lan Wangji is stuck in a situation where he can't cast judgment, but still, his actions reflect what he knows and has gathered first-hand; what his actions show is pure love, patience, a strong, but sensitive heart waiting for another chance to understand the truth, yet knowing and accepting that it will never come, and being at peace with that.

[madtomedgar]

I don’t even think it’s that Nie Mingjue doesn’t know Lan Xichen or understand him, it’s just that they’re work friends. He can confidently assert that Xichen never swears, because in the context in which he knows him, that’s true! He knows about the alcohol burning-off because it’s mostly used around him. They’ve had some deep conversations about the messy knot of being a too-young sect leader with too many expectations and a father’s kind of fucked up legacy bearing down on them. But there’s limits to what they can talk about, and how deeply they can get into certain things, and how they can challenge each other because the coworking relationship has to be maintained. So like... there are things Nie Mingjue thinks they agree on because Lan Xichen just kept his mouth shut because getting into it was risky and unnecessary. And meanwhile Jin Guangyao knows Lan Xichen outside of work, and also knows him compromised, and that’s a very different kind of relationship. If that makes sense.

[little-meowyao]

Last line tag game!

Rules: In a new post, show the last line you wrote (or drew) and tag as many people as there are words (or however many you like).

Tagged by @mostlikelytofangirl (crypticidentity here, tis my JGY sideblog)

Lan Xichen looks terrible— eyebags beneath his eyes, hair seems just a bit too tangled for his usual, though very few would notice. Skin pale, and the small smile he graces him with, brittle at the edges, and breaking all the way between. Nie Mingjue does not blame himself for it.

I know it said line but one single line would make no sense in the context of what I'm writing, so have a paragraph. I dare you guys to guess what it's about

Tags: @evilhasnever @slyther-bi @wishthefish @pvwj @jgydidnothingwrong

[the-crimson]

Ok, all my current thoughts on the 4halo/untamed cross over

going below a cut cuz this is going to get long XD

ok so there is a problem. Both bbh and forever fit Wei Wuxian and neither of them fit Lan Wangji XD I think bbh fits wwx’s profile more but ill compare which traits they have that match wwx -- (i main bbh and occasionally watch forever so take my interpretation of forever’s character with a grain of biased salt)

bbh: black and red color palette, associated with death/necromancy, ray of sunshine, selfless to the point of self destruction, insufferable prankster and joker, fierce intelligence hidden behind silliness, fiercely compassionate, lack of respect for rules or authority

forever: selfless to the point of self destruction, fiercely compassionate for everyone, very strong morals, lack of respect for rules or authority, strong familial bonds with others, fiercely intelligent and a brilliant inventor (create mod)

In another vein, I think the nature of 4halo’s relationship in cannon mirrors wangxian in a number of ways if bbh is wwx and forever is lwg - lemme explain XD

In the beginning, one party decides that they want to annoy and follow around the other party, who is disinterested and focused on other concerns. Through the persistence of the first party, the second grows fond of them and eventually sees that their souls are the same. The two work together over time to accomplish their shared goal and a friendship of mutual respect and admiration is born. Am i talking about 4halo or wangxian. Trick question. Answer is both.

When the brazilians were first added, bbh terrified forever with his grim reaper act and forever thought bbh was suss as hell because bbh was following them around the server while forever was with Richarlyson cuz bbh was worried Richarlyson would lose a life while they were thousands of blocks from spawn XD Im pretty sure it was only when they were working with the theory bros that forever realized bbh was trust worthy and the rest is history.

So, with my justifications laid out, I’m going to proceed with bbh as wwx and forever as a loose lwj. Here is my thoughts on casting for everyone else. This part is the hard part XD I’ll justify my choosing after it’ll all make sense XD (somehow we ended up with even less woman than the original cast which seems like it should be impossible but there are only 2 women on the smp sooooo) (also i only know most of the qsmp cast from bbh, Foolish, Bagerah, and Cell’s perspective and tumblr posts lol so... yea)

Wei Wixian: bad boy halo

Lan Wangji: Forever

Jiang Yanli: Foolish

Jiang Cheng: Maximus

Lan Xichen: Cellbit

Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao: Felps

Wen Ning: AyPierre

Wen Qing: Bagerah

Xue Yang: Quackity

Xiao Xing Chen: Wilbur

Song Lan: Philza

Nie Huaisang: Slimecicle

Nie Mingjue: Etoiles

Jin Zixuan: Vagetta

Wen Chao: Spreen

Wen Yuan: Dapper

Lan Suzhui: Richarlyson

Lan Jingyi: Dapper

Jin Ling: Leo

Ok, so context, most of these casting choices were more about their relationships than the characters themselves but here we go with my reasoning (am 100% open to alternatives let me know your casting choices in the comments!)

Jiang Yanli x Jin Zixuan = Foolish x Vegetta. Ok so Foolish is super laid back when it comes to lore but is incredibly protective when it comes to people he loves. We all remember his 10/10 acting when Forever hit Leo. I am just imagining him as Yanli telling Jin Zixun off during the crowd hunt like yes queen. Vegetta stands firm with his commitment to Foolish even when everyone is constantly saying Foolish is cheating on him and trusts him, wants to be with him regardless of the rumors. These two fit Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan’s end game relationship so much it makes my heart hurt XD

Jiang Cheng as Maximus. This one was one of the most difficult to cast but I think Max fits pretty well. From my experience Max can be silly but for the most part is pretty stoic and focused on the bigger picture. He is also pretty detached from others without any real solid connections other than Sophia.

Lan Xichen as Cellbit. This one was easy. Cellbit is super into all of the lore and enigmas just like Lan Xichen and while he has a somewhat serious personality he is always down for silliness and having a good time. Plus, his relationship to Forever is a given.

Meng Yao as Felps. ok this one was more uncertain as all I know about Felps is from the prison break XD but I know he and Cellbit are very close and Felps isn’t very good at minecraft so he’d make a perfect Meng Yao XD idk lol

Wen Ning and Wen Qing as AyPierre and Bagerah. This one is also a bit of a stretch. Bagerah is very devoted to her goals and family but also has a pretty strong moral backbone. Even though she is pretty silly a lot of the time, I think she’d make a good Wen Qing.

Xue Yang, Xiao Xing Chen and Song Lan as Quackity, Wilbur, and Philza. Okay hear me out. Xue Yang x Xiao Xing Chen has similarities to Quackity x Wilbur. Wilbur has been hostile to Quackity because Quackity keeps trying to steal Tallulah and Quackity’s been pretty wild since Tilin’s death. Obviously he isn’t anywhere near Xue Yang’s craziness but I think he’s the closest other than Slime. Philza as Song Lan to Wilbur’s Xaio Xing Chen

My thoughts when it comes to the kids, breaking mdzs cannon a bit here. Dapper is Wen Yuan during the burial mounds but they have the personality of Lan Jingyi post time skip while Richarlyson has Lan Suzhui’s personality XD. So, uh, idk haha Maybe Lan Wangji adopts both of them? or the characters are combine idk lol

Jing Ling as Leo also fits so well it hurts my heart. Leo is a lonly child who is super protective and kinda territorial with their parents. She would be so ruined if her parents were killed. I am just imgining Leo in Jin Ling’s scenario and my heart hurts for him.

Alternatively, if Forever is Wei Wuxian then Cellbit is Jiang Cheng and Felps is Jiang Yanli. Bbh is Lan Wangi, Wilbur is Lan Zichen, Quackity is Meng Yao, Foolish is Nie Huasang, Philza is Nie Mingjue.

uuuu yea those are my thoughts im tired now XD my energy levels have crashed and my brain no longer works. let me know what you think and what your headcannon are! :D

who knows if i end up actually writting this im already outlinging a 4halo modern au so well seeeeeee

[guqin-and-flute]

New year writing asks: 1, 8, 24?

1. Do you have a word-count goal for the upcoming year?

Not for the year, but I'm going to try to set a fairly attainable goal for updating/posting SOMETHING (fic wise) at least once a month, to keep the momentum up!

8. Is there a story idea in your mental vault that you’ve never been brave enough to try writing? Is this the year? Can you tell us about it?

So...sorta. There's 2. One is the I've talked about the Xichen in Guanyin Temple Time Loop fic that fascinates me. It just requires a lot of planning (at least vs what I normally do). A lot of times, my story lines sort of write themselves after I've futzed around in them for a chapter or two, or, sometimes the broader arc of it just sort of pops out of nowhere. With timeloops, tho, part of the narrative juiciness is the stuff that stays the same and how that changes because of context. Starting with Architect™ energy is daunting to my primarily (or at least, initially) Gardener™ brain, cause I want to do it justice! Plus I would need to figure out the ending 😂

The second is a post-canon JGY Survives Guanyin Temple AU from his POV I started back in 2020 fairly soon after I finished the show for the first time. I think it was the 3rd fic I started planning for this fandom ever? It's a lot darker than a lot of the other stuff I've written and I want to be sure I can write him in a...realistic way? I deal so much with AU's and Fix-Its before everything truly goes down the drain for him re:Qin Su marriage, JGSs murder, and A-Song's murder, 3 instances where I really think something in him just broke. I haven't dealt much with that JGY and so I want to do him justice and write him as jagged and savage as he is but still make him make sense as himself, you know?

But basically, Xichen says that the Lan will take responsibility for him and he locks him up 🙃 And then goes into seclusion. Which, y'know. Parallels. I go into how that mentally fucks with both of them, how that reconciling/healing(?ish?) process is for both of them, how they have both changed, to each other and to who they were before.

24. By the end of this year, you want your fandom to think of you as “that author who _______.”

Finished that really cool AU! I DON'T CARE WHICH ONE, I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO FINISH A PROJECT AHJISDJOFA

[brehaaorgana]

re:mdzs, i could be totally wrong as im not a native speaker, but as i understand it re: sibling order, sometimes it's more about the overall birth order than your own position in it. for instance my classmate has 2 younger brothers and while she can refer to them as being her younger brothers #1&#2, its also understood (at least by our teachers) when she says erdi/sandi bc even though there is no first didi, SHE is first in the birth order shes dajie, erdi, sandi. hence why in the mdzs case, re: 3zun, lan xichen may have a gege and a didi but its understood to be a trio and that he is the second, therefore jgy is the third (not first little brother to lxc, or second to nmj). the only thing that changes is the reference point (i.e is he older/younger? hence why jgy may be referred to in fanfic as nmj&lxh's “sandi” but iirc nhs refers to jgy i believe in cql as “san-ge”, bc jgy is older than him. lxc can be erge from jgy's perspective, erdi from nmj, bc he's still second overall of three.) as i say, take this w a grain of salt im not a native speaker, but i could ask one of my teachers for clarification if no other native speaker weighs in. and sorry if i misunderstood ur question lol

You didn't misunderstand! My gut feeling is that it would make sense like...

If LXC is speaking OF JGY to someone else, then he could be san-di, as in "the third brother of us three brothers." It's that I don't think LXC would directly address JGY as san-di, because he would just be a "didi." (Setting aside canon, bc I don't remember if he ever actually does use that in any form. If someone can confirm novel usage that'd be great.)

Like in your example, does your classmate directly address child #3 as "san-di" when talking to her second little brother, OR does she call him "er-di" directly, but he is "[The] san-di [of the siblings]" when referring to her family unit as a whole's birth order and to a third party?

I guess I'm asking "is the pronoun of direct address relational to your own relationship to the person, or is it fixed on birth order?"

Because imagine you have 5 sons. Is son #3 "san-ge" or san-di? Would it be Da-ge, er-ge, san-ge, si-ge, and wu-di? Also wouldn't san-ge refer (generally) to si-di, not a si-ge? Would he directly address son #4 as "Didi" and #5 as "er-di" (possessive, direct) but then in a third person present context say "si-di and wu-di"?

[thepurplewombat]

Tagged by @thatswhatsushesaid!

Okay so I am also cheating a little bit with this one, because it doesn't make any sense without the context? So here's some context. This is from a post-canon fic I've been noodling with for a while.

Lan Xichen envied those who had quick tempers. Jiang Wangyin; Nie Mingjue when he'd lived-they could afford to lose their tempers. They shouted and they raged, and then it was done. They did not have to live with a volcano under their skin.

The wrath of Gusu Lan was different. It went deep. It slept hard.

And when it awoke, the world trembled.

tagging @touchstoneaf @lanninglurksnomore @bastionofbibliophiles @cryptidafter @inthe-interim @out-there-tmblr @octopusandaleech

Sorry if I tagged you and you don't write or don't want to share, you don't have to <3

[lansplaining]

I’m not going to argue nieyao is a canon ship because it isn’t, but I do think it’s significant their names mean the same thing & they end up in the same place & are descended from butchers & prostitutes, who make a living off society’s “carnal” needs & were considered unclean for it. JGY is considered unclean during the teacup scene & NMJ rules the Unclean Realm. JGY died brutally, but when push came to shove he CHOSE to die @ NMJ’s hands. Nieyao are 2 sides of the same coin on a meta level.

I totally get where you're coming from, but I think these are all superficial similarities that just don't hold up to scrutiny. (And to be fair, the ship thing wasn't an idea I introduced, I know that's not the angle you're taking!)

Same names: We don't know Mingjue's name's origin or his feelings about it, and in a book where much is made of many names, that is kind of notable-- in that it's kind of telling us there isn't much there. "Guangyao" is a deliberate insult, but one that JGY embraces because it's the best he's going to get. I guess they're both... the names bestowed (we assume) by their fathers? But also JGY's one borrows from the name given to him by his mother, who cared about him more, and... idk, I'm trying to find a deeper resonance here and I just can't.

Butchers vs prostitutes: The extent to which the Nie clan is no longer tainted by their ancestor's association with butchery is made obvious by everyone's willingness to overlook their incredibly obvious and suspicious tendency to suddenly qi deviate and die. Like there's gossip, but it makes no material impact-- basically everyone admires and respects NMJ. JGY's inability to escape his background colors literally every choice he makes. There's truly no comparison to make here, except I guess to say that by doing what he did, JGY was on the right track to get people to eventually forget his ancestry in, like, a few generations. The Unclean Realm thing is like the distillation of the difference between them: NMJ can live at the borders of the impure and filthy and be unafraid of being tainted, whereas no matter how cautious JGY is, he will never be seen as clean.

Coffin: I think saying JGY "chose" to die at NMJ's hands is... hm. MDZS makes explicit that the wound LXC dealt him is fatal, so whatever else happens, he has already died at LXC's hands. MDZS describes his returning to the coffin and freeing NMJ as, "he was fighting with his last breath to lead Lan XiChen towards Nie MingJue, so that they could die together!"

In my reading, Mingjue is somewhat incidental to the real goal, which is dying with Lan Xichen. Once JGY then decides not to do that and to push Lan Xichen away, literally what else is he supposed to do? He can't get away from NMJ at that point. The description, which is in full here, is shocking and brutal and does not at all read like someone who is willingly delivering himself to death. He made a choice, changed his mind, and now can't get away.

Again, I'm not saying that the things you're seeing aren't there! But the context has been peeled away in such a way that completely changes their meaning, and makes the similarities seem more resonant than they actually are. I absolutely do think that MXTX is trying to embed small resonances to generate a sense of these characters' lives being entwined. But I think that's the extent of the purpose of that repeating imagery: to create a vibe, not to create actual foils. In fact, the inaccurate determination to see their circumstances as equivalent-- or even roughly similar!-- is really at the heart of why NMJ is both so upset about and so wrong about the whole situation.

[wifiwuxians]

ship game ship game⛵️

ok,first I want to say that xuechao makes a lot of sense,actually. jiaojiao and xue yang are actually a bit similar,if you think about it. true,we don't know about wang lingjiao's past,and I guess she at least did not grow up on the street. but both of them are pretty and love torturing people and are quite overdoing it on the revenge front.

now,since that one got asked already,pick whichever you feel like🍉:

-xuexiao💀 if you want to and you won't be getting haters on here from answering that

-sorry,I'm basic,but,songxiao🌟 I just want to read a love letter to my fav ship and who better to ask than my fav shipper of my ship

-lanlan! (at first I was like,no! song lan would not move on even after 800 years! but then I read some fics and it made sense for lan xichen and song lan to at least become close as friends)(but I want to know what YOU think so don't worry about disagreeing)

omg okay first of all THANK YOU SO MUCH for your compliments!! I am really thrilled I am your favorite songxiaoist lol 😳 Second! You are so big brained actually! Jiaojiao and Xue Yang both have come from bleak backgrounds and are trying to cling to what little they have! I believe Jiaojiao was just about sold by her family lol and she is illiterate 💔 And they are both petty batshit revenge machines! I've actually briefly considered xuechaojiao LOLLL... HMM... but okay, onwards to the

GAME

I'll give you my love letter to Songxiao first so you don't need to go digging for it hehe

I hope I won't get hate for playing the game jhdgjsg I hope everyone will be a little more mature than that

Xuexiao

Do I ship it: I do not. (Tim Allen AHUUUAHH?) But on a single day of the year my aversion to it lessens and I'm able to retweet art of them kinda smooching so my tolerance is overall getting better, maybe? lol

Why don't I: There are many factors... I like mutually destructive toxic mess ships, right? We've established that. But I don't like ships in which one person is doing all the hurting and the other person ends up, uh. Like XXC did. "But DJ I thought you were the fixit king" I am! It's just not exactly appealing to me, and the other big factor as to why is that I just... Never really saw them that way. Like even removing their canon storyline and only leaving their dynamic, which removed from context is lovely don't get me wrong, it never registered as romantic. It registered as XXC looking out for his goofy little brother, you know? I dunno. There's nothing there for me, sorry. "But DJ the devotion" yeah. There are many ways to love someone. Even if that were romantic, it's too onesided for me.

What would have made me like it: If they actually liked each other LMAO I have no issue with the thought of them loving each other, just not romantically! Outside of canon they're pretty much cemented as family in my brain, though very rarely I'll maybe entertain the idea of some sort of QPP dynamic but then it slingshots right back into family again. Just friends who really love each other and tried to do the do only to find out they don't see each other that way is the furthest I'm willing to go for them and this is a HUGE leap from where I was a year ago LOL

A positive: I appreciate that a lot of people just really want them to love each other. Maybe try and find some healing in all the mess. I get what that's like.

Please whoever reads this don't take this as an invitation to start talking to me about it though as it still does cause me to react negatively 💀 some days I really cannot stand it at all, I'm just mature enough to not be a hater 100%

Lanlan

Do I ship it: I'm in the process of being converted, we will see how it goes! Kind of sucks this game doesn't have a maybe option so I'll make up the questions myself

What's drawing me to it: I, like you, was originally like "naur Song Lan has his man already thanks, and after he fixes him he's going to bed", but one of my close friends made the very good point that just because he's on a quest doesn't mean he can't be loved on the side, too! So I'd like to see Song Lan get loved on, and Lan Xichen deserves this, too, and I think stories about processing grief are very potent

Things I like about it: It seems this ship is about healing oneself and each other, and I'm a big fan of that! Both characters also complement each other well, with each having characteristics of someone the other has loved before (i.e. NMJ's righteousness, XXC's gentle energy). I also think canon gave them really sad endings, and in LXC's case it's a bit of a bitter one, too. SL's is at least bittersweet so sharing the joy is nice 🥺

What would seal the deal: Strong characterization aligned with my view of the characters! Being in character goes a long way for me, so if you've got them down pat, then I'll be more likely to give it a chance. If you add that they've both been in love before and that they're not looking for a replacement then we're set! (:

[whetstonefires]

Oh right, also re: jgy's relationship to the rumors, which in Mo Village claim Mo Xuanyu sexually harassed his peers but in Jin Tower say he hit on his brother. There has been so much discussion on this post about that and I failed to bring up a crucial detail.

I don't necessarily think Jin Guangyao made that part up, but I do think he could have, and I definitely know he was willing to weaponize it wherever it came from, because during the awkward showdown in the treasure room Su She specifically cites those allegations to discredit 'Mo Xuanyu,' and cast extreme doubt on anything negative he might say about Sect Leader Jin.

Su She has known that 'Mo Xuanyu' was working with Hanguang-jun and actively using the guidao (a combination that does not look so strange when Lan Xichen totally confided in you about his little brother's tragic love for the Yiling Patriarch) since the graveyard where he went to dig up the torso, which is a good six weeks or so ago at this point.

So he and Jin Guangyao had plenty of time to workshop their angle in case that duo brought their data forward, see the smooth way jgy moves the focus to 'Mo Xuanyu' to set up Su She's context pitch and then the equally smooth pivot to 'wow what's the matter with Hanguang-jun that he's willing to associate with such a person? (they're totally fucking guys.)'

So it's almost certainly with jgy's explicit instruction that Su She is bringing up the half-sibling incest attempt accusation in front of the cream of society. Though without bringing up that they're half-brothers, for those who don't already know.

Of course, jgy also doesn't say it himself--that risks being dragged into he-said argumentation and getting the dirt all over him. But he does have his top henchman state it as known fact.

Now, I think it makes a lot of sense for him to throw that up as a smokescreen because 1) on an emotional level jgy loves to project and definitely seems to me like the kind of guy who would reach for what he fears himself to bring ruination on someone else 2) strategically, if the accusation of a known half-sibling macking on him gets out there first, then any leaks or suspicions (or, by the time Su She says it, though he can't actually know that yet, imminent direct allegations) about him and Qin Su that may arise later look like copycat rumors, and way less believable.

But regardless, his crony restating the accusation in that context means we technically have better textual support for Jin Guangyao endorsing the attempted-incest rumor than we do for Mo Xuanyu actually being gay.

So like, I'm pretty darn sure Mo Xuanyu did not actually make a pass at Jin Guangyao.

For several reasons, like for one thing hitting on your own actual brother who is also your boss is genuinely insane behavior, in a way nothing else we know about the guy actually matches, other than his reputation for being crazy which mostly seems to originate from the same point as the sexual harassment allegations. which tracks because even with rampant societal homophobia, that's such a crazy thing to do people would question it if it didn't come paired with the information that he's insane.

Then there's the fact that if that had actually happened, there's basically no way master spin artist jgy would have let it get out, because actually experiencing that would trigger his sense-of-uncleanliness issues so hard.

But what we see is that somehow Everyone Knows that it happened, but also that Jin Guangyao totally didn't tell anyone, because he's too merciful and kind and respectable. It just mysteriously leaked somehow that this private scandal happened.

(Also, to step up a meta level, the gay goth kid who was never quite accepted into his own family and wound up self-destructing was in fact guilty of the homophobic allegations spread by the powerful man who manipulates reputation for personal advantage? This is not the kind of story where that would be true. The thematic dissonance is too much.)

The only way it's believable that mxy made a move on jgy is if jgy spent a long time maneuvering him into it, hinting and deniably flirting and just generally being maximum skeeze, just a huge elaborate incestuous honeypot, just to bait a 'ruined reputation' trap. Which makes no sense at all.

I don't think jgy is necessarily above that kind of creepy grooming behavior but I do think he would hate it, and definitely wouldn't resort to it when sowing rumors would work just as well. and expose him to less risk.

So Mo Xuanyu didn't do it.

So what we've got is that Jin Guangyao systematically obliterated this kid's credibility.

No one would listen to anything he said after being expelled in that sort of context, especially anything against Jin Guangyao, whom he now has obvious motive to smear. This was a preemptive strike against some kind of leak.

It's exactly the kind of thing jgy would do--it targets individual vulnerability, leverages the weak points in Mo Xuanyu's reputation into gaping chasms, in a way that associates jgy with scandal but makes him personally look better. also shows signs of jgy projecting his own issues onto others. The MO fits.

And his motive is easy to construct: Mo Xuanyu had had access to his secrets, such as Wei Wuxian's manuscripts and probably a lot of the other ugly shit. And Jin Guangyao needed him silenced, due to some thing or other, but as with SiSi didn't want to have to kill him.

(A fascinating thing about jgy as a villain is the moments where he yields to sentiment pretty consistently contribute to his destruction.)

But then we come around to: so why didn't Mo Xuanyu sic Wei Wuxian on Jin Guangyao, then?

In cql wwx does have a curse cut for jgy, to keep him in the plot and create an additional open storyline to resolve, since viewers are gonna be denied romantic catharsis, but in cql the homophobia plotline isn't there because all the gay is censored, and mxy allegedly hit on qin su instead. which is less utterly unhinged to do though still big wtf.

In the book, mxy summoned the Yiling Patriarch just to kill the Mos. (Which he didn't even do lmao.)

So I've always been sort of poking at that, like if you're destroying your own soul to get revenge, why spare the person who deliberately ruined your life?

Even if he had done the thing, it was weird! Maybe even weirder; if you're in a headspace where making sexual advances anyone should be able to predict are unwelcome seems like a good idea in the first place, there's a pretty good chance getting punished for them isn't going to make you think you were in the wrong. Otoh there is a zone where he could have done it, gotten the backlash, cleared his head a bit, realized it was fucked up to do, and therefore not held a grudge in that particular direction, but it's still weird. (And also he definitely didn't do the thing.)

But if he was so angry, why was he not angry at Jin Guangyao? Who definitely kicked him out of the Sect, all else aside?

And then I looked at the passage in Jin sect where we swap to Jin Ling's pov and he tells us one of the few first-hand things we hear about Mo Xuanyu: He thought Jin Guanyao was the most amazing person in the whole world. He adored him.

And being betrayed and rejected by him didn't turn that into resentment. Even though he resented the other side of his family enough to want them gratuitously murdered.

So you know what I think happened?

I think Mo Xuanyu thinks it was an honest misunderstanding. That Jin Guangyao, his idol, falsely concluded that his gay little brother was creeping on him based on a misinterpretation of his admiring behavior, and was appropriately revolted. And that Mo Xuanyu doesn't blame him for it. He blames himself.

He went back to his mother's family to rot genuinely feeling like the ruination of his life was his own fault for being creepy. And died like that.

Because of that, to a considerable extent. How can you bend any of your will to saving yourself, to getting out of an abusive situation and seeking a better one, when you don't think you deserve to be saved?

Fucks me up.

[pumpkinpaix]

//slams hands on table ALL RIGHT finished the shuangjie & mxy fic, gotta go to bed though and I’ll edit it tomorrow afternoon and hopefully post it before dinner FINALLY god why did this take so LONG

[shanastoryteller]

on one hand i’ve been wanting to talk about this for a while, and on the other hand i’ve been avoiding it for the massive potential it has to go from us having a conversation to devolving into the most annoying discourse possible

but i got another comment that just broke the camel’s back so i’m going to talk about it anyway

a lot of things i see people are saying are “wrong” in untamed fanfic are actually just translation preferences and just because someone chooses to translate something differently than you doesn’t make it wrong 

first, before we get into what i’m talking about, we have to talk about what translations are and the motivation behind them

translations are taking something from one language and making it understandable and consumable in a different language 

this can be as big as the differences between chinese and english or as small as the differences between british english and american english, which are considered different enough that books published in both places will have words and phrases translated to make them more digestible to the population it’s being marketed towards 

there are few different ways someone can translate something

there’s a direct translation, which is just finding the closest applicable word and plopping it in there like a smarter google translate 

there’s translating to preserve the intention and cultural significance behind a word/phrase as closely as can be replicated in the foreign language

there’s translating to convey the vibe/feeling as closely as can be replicated in the foreign language

there’s not translating at all, which doesn’t technically count, by definition, but is brought up often enough that we’ll talk about it

there’s an infinite number of ways this applies, but for simplicity’s sake, and because it’s the one people keep bringing up to me, we’re going to go with jiujiu / maternal uncle 

because i don’t speak chinese, my first job is to gain some level of understanding about what this word really means in the original language and the way it’s used. only once you understand that can you make a semi-educated choice on how to translate something (since most of us aren’t fluent in the language or culture, semi educated is about as good as it gets, but for smaller words like these i think it’s easy enough to get most of the needed context). so we need to start off with: maternal uncle, respectful, people don’t use names to differentiate between uncles like we do in english, using first names and/or birth names is either intimate or disrespectful depending on circumstance 

now, the simplest way to translate this is just as uncle. in english, referring to someone just as uncle is a little unusual, but common enough that this works as a good translation all around. if one wants to translate the maternal aspect of it, then “uncle lastname” works pretty well. the issue with that is that naming convention only ever happens in english maybe with grand uncles or “uncles” that fall more under shushu than jiujiu, so if i was translating it then that’s something i would avoid, because i wouldn’t want the readers to think that the characters have a less close relationship because o this, but it’s something that’s easy enough to do without distorting the original meaning so i think it also works 

if the character only has one uncle 

but we are, specifically, talking about jin ling here 

so if he’s talking about both jiang cheng and wei wuxian in the same scene, and referring to them both as uncle, how do we differentiate them? 

uncle wei and uncle jiang work here, because they’re both maternal uncles but they have different last names, which is really just us getting lucky in this situation. but it presents the problem we have earlier. 

to an english ear, that creates distance between jin ling and jc/wwx. if i want to show them as being close to an english speaking audience, that’s not a translation i personally want to use 

the most obvious solution is to then have jin ling refer to them way most english speaking people would refer to their uncles (that’s not just straight up having him call them by the their names, which is what i actually think is most common. i only refer to my uncle as uncle when i’m talking ABOUT him to someone else) which is “uncle first name”

however first names also present a problem in untamed because of courtesy names and because courtesy names are used ahistorically and inconsistently in canon 

wei wuxian uses jiang cheng’s birth name but jc doesn’t use wwx’s. wwx is basically the same age and lower in rank than jc, so it would make sense for jc to call him wei ying in turn, but he just ... doesn’t. same for jiang yanli. she’s arguably the one wwx is closest to and has the most positive relationship with through out the show and she’s older than him. it would make a lot of sense for her to call him wei ying, or even a-ying to mirror the way she calls jc a-cheng rather than calling wwx a-xian. lan xichen calls lan wangji by his courtesy name rather than birth name, and i’m pretty sure lan qiren does the same to both his nephews, which doesn’t really make sense to me in world

i think the real purpose here was to give wwx and lwj names that they only call each other for special intimacy reasons rather than to create a consistent more in the untamed universe

however, going with that and jin ling obviously being so much younger and wanting to retain at least some of the respectfulness that would be inherent in the original language, i do think that uncle wuxian and uncle wanyin are good translations 

u n l e s s 

see the thing is that jin ling refers to wwx as “wei ying” before he knows him as a way to be disrespectful to him because he believes that he killed his parents. i personally like the symmetry in him shifting to calling him that in a positive manner to make up for him calling him that in a negative manner, which isn’t something that can really work in chinese, but can work in english 

as for jiang cheng, probably because the story is told from wwx’s pov even in the show, we’re used to seeing his birth name rather than his courtesy name, and honestly no one uses his courtesy name unless he’s being a bitch. because of this, the use of wanyin creates a cognitive sense of distance that the often used wuxian just doesn’t. so if someone uses his birth name for that reason, i think that makes sense too. so i think uncle ying and uncle cheng can also work 

there is, of course, just using jiujiu and trusting context to take care of the rest, but that’s less a translation choice than it is just choosing not to translate 

i’ve done different things in different works with different contexts. in rotten work specifically, i had jin ling refer to jc as just “uncle” because i imagine that’s what he’s been doing for 16 years with no other maternal uncle, and because he’s the uncle he’s closest too among all of them, and i wanted to reflect that. i have jl refer to wwx as “uncle ying” a little bit because of the reasons above, but also a way to stake a claim on him to everyone and to demonstrate that they have a close relationship before the really have one as a way to partially shield wwx and to goad those around him (plus a bonus plot reason that doesn’t get revealed until the final chapter)

my point here is that there’s a lot reasons why someone could choose to translate something one way versus another. i used this one thing as an example, but this same thought process applies to lots of things 

you do not have to agree with everyone’s translation choices, or like them, or think them appropriate. but translation is by its very nature imperfect and there’s a lot of different potential reasoning behind people’s choices and i really don’t think there’s one perfect way to translate something and that all other ways are wrong 

[veliseraptor]

okay but now i'm Very Interested in your thoughts on nhs 👀 (if you've already talked about just link me to the post ajnsqjns)

oh man I don't even remember what this was talking about/was in response to (perils of delaying responding to asks but not noting any context or anything to indicate what they were about) but I guess??? I can ramble anyway

so the thing about me and Nie Huaisang is that I don’t talk about him that much, mostly because I...very much do not vibe with what feels like the predominant fandom interpretation/treatment of him (at least, that I see; ydinmd etc.). I see a lot of nie huaisang as this...overall well intentioned, good-natured, benevolent, but also a master manipulator, but, like, the good kind. and that’s just not...I mean, for one thing I just find that not that interesting and for another thing it doesn’t feel accurate to me as far as I read his character.

putting under a read more because this got...long. no textual analysis this time just a lot of rambling and opinions mostly

like...the shorthand I’ve used with friends talking about Nie Huaisang is that I only like Nie Huaisang when he’s mean, and while that’s a little bit simplistic it does kind of get at the core of my Nie Huaisang feelings. and I don’t think that was always true! but I also don’t think he was necessarily this harmless good and sweet boy when he was younger, either. I think he was careless, with a tendency toward laziness and indolence; a little bit spoiled even though he does face his brother’s disapproval. he is the baby brother! and he is kind of Baby. and I don’t necessarily mean that in a bad way, either - he is a kid (or, a young teenager) and he should have the chance to be a kid, and it feels like in some ways he’s fighting for just that.

but I also think he isn’t, like. super altruistic. he’s just not really looking outside himself. like most of the Gusu Summer Camp generation, he’s a little myopic. again, fair! he is a teenager and that’s kind of what teenagers are like.

but the Nie Huaisang I’m actually interested in is the one that takes shape after Nie Mingjue’s death, and that’s a Nie Huaisang who zeroes in on taking revenge for his beloved brother to the exclusion of all else.

canonically, the Nie Sect has fallen into...if not disrepute, at least disdain, under Nie Huaisang’s authority - most likely (at least in part) as part of his ruse of being completely useless and nonthreatening. the reputation he has indicates that he’s to a greater or lesser degree letting the inhabitants of Qinghe fend for themselves (”if this were the old Nie Sect this problem would’ve been taken care of right away”, says the Know-It-All of Qinghe, and while the problem he’s talking about isn’t a real problem...it suggests that the same is true more generally). that’s a choice he makes, and as a sect leader it’s a deeply irresponsible one. but the revenge plot takes priority.

in the novel, it is explicitly Nie Huaisang who lures the juniors into danger in Yi City, where they would be at serious risk (and I’d argue it makes sense to be him in CQL as well, though there’s no definitive indication). he also places the Lan juniors at risk at Mo Manor - with the belief that they’ll have rescuers in both cases, but there’s no certainty that no one would come to harm, potentially mortal harm, before that rescue. and I don’t think Nie Huaisang is unaware of that - it just, again, is worth it to him.

and there’s other places, too, over and over, where we see this willingness to accept significant collateral damage in service of Jin Guangyao’s utter ruin. (his death isn’t enough - he truly is set on salting and burning the earth of his entire life and legacy.) Qin Su is a collateral victim - not necessarily a predicted one, certainly, but telling her the truth about her relationship to Jin Guangyao was going to destroy her life one way or another, and that was an acceptable casualty. Lan Xichen is an acceptable casualty. (Maybe he even deserves it, in Nie Huaisang’s view, for “enabling” Jin Guangyao - for taking Jin Guangyao’s “side.”)

and there’s the fact of Wei Wuxian’s resurrection as well. whatever role you believe Nie Huaisang did or didn’t play in Mo Xuanyu’s decision to sacrifice himself bringing him back (and I’m inclined to think some, at least, on account of...it’s too perfect a coincidence otherwise), that’s another death (utter destruction) - and it’s also dragging Wei Wuxian back into the world of the living (which is, incidentally, a pretty big no-no in cultural terms). furthermore, Nie Huaisang does not actually know how that’s going to go, or what condition Wei Wuxian will be in, or what he’ll be like. certainly he’s not concerned with Wei Wuxian’s wishes, or what kind of havoc might result from his coming back. whatever consequences there might be - and it’s easy to think of several, even if they didn’t happen - Nie Huaisang deems them acceptable.

I know that there’s...a desire, certainly, to be grateful for the role Nie Huaisang plays in precipitating Wei Wuxian’s resurrection. of course! he’s our protagonist, we’re glad to have him back, we know he didn’t “deserve” to die. I see a lot of (I presume joke, but how much is debatable) posts about how Nie Huaisang Said Gay Rights or whatever, and while I think Nie Huaisang wanting his friend back was a factor, I certainly don’t think that his precipitating Wei Wuxian’s resurrection was, at its core, about righting a wrong or improving his friends’ lives.

it was about the same thing that his actions were about the whole time: revenge for Nie Mingjue. first, foremost, and above all, whatever it costs.

(this isn’t digging into my feelings about “Nie Huaisang as master manipulator” partly because I feel like those can be summed up by that one post that’s like ‘Jin Guangyao is playing four dimensional chess against the whole cultivation world and Nie Huaisang is eating the pieces when he isn’t looking.’)

so! I feel like when I write all this out it looks like “okay Lise but this sounds like you hate Nie Huaisang” and the fact is that I don’t! I mean, I wouldn’t say I like him, but all the above is what makes me find him interesting. because a character who makes the conscious decision to burn the world down on behalf of someone they loved, believing themselves justified or at the very least not caring if they are or not, because the goal takes priority, first and foremost - especially when there can be some question of whether the person that they’re avenging would appreciate the means taken to those ends, as I think there is here, actually - that’s a character I find compelling.

particularly because of a theme underlying, at least in my perception: that more often than not, when you pursue the destruction of others, ultimately you end up destroying yourself.

or at the very least paying a higher price than you meant to.

[adhdo5]

Justifications for house divorce

JGY's state at death, fierce corpse status, what it must thus mean for him to lose the fight meaningfully (his body is damaged, much of his non-resentful memory is damaged)

JGY's general preferred modus operandi

JGY's central architectural trauma

In TGCF ghosts and gods do have notable places of power

Sometimes you Are your place of power and while that isn't entirely literal usually there are also guys who Are swords and Are rings and such

Ghosts can take whatever physical form they want

By ghost rules and fierce corpse rules this is sensical in a way that is a pretty reasonable extrapolation from the soft systems in the canons and the specificity of it is me trying to ground his shtick in what he does in canon and this is all not a huge or obscure amount of context and yet it is still just removed enough that it still feels bizarrely out of left field. And this is so funny to me that it's the name of the AU. Lan Xichen divorces a house and you can't even say it doesn't make sense

The thing abt house divorce is it's not a direct extension of MDZS or TGCF canon but it is not that long a chain of logic it's just Just removed enough that it stops making sense at first glance

[dual-domination]

Husband watching The Untamed: The ex-boyfriend is the spy!!!

So we reached episode 24 till now.

Husband started watching one episode per day. On Sunday’s night, he watched five episodes. This week he’s arriving home already saying: “I’ll take a shower so we can watch Wei Wuxian.”

He turned out to be addicted. Also very happy bc Lan Xichen and Lan Qiren are alive. And also very happy bc Wen Chao is dead.

He got some thoughts:

Jiang Yanli:

“She makes soup three times per episode. It’s the only way to keep her siblings under control.”

Nie Huaisang:

Husband: “Is he ever going to do something that’s not flirting with Jiang Cheng? I mean, like fighting?”

Me, in Neil Gaiman’s mode: “Wait and see.”

Lan Wangji:

Husband: “Is he going to take the guitar everywhere he goes?”

Me: “Is a Guqin. Mostly a type of zither or harp.”

Husband: “A Chinese guitar.”

Wei Wuxian:

Husband: “Now is he going to be badass?”

Me: “Sort of... no, mostly depressed.”

Husband: “But he’s going to drink in every Sect headquarters’ rooftop.”

Lan Xichen:

Specifically that scene when he’s drinking with Wei Wuxian.

Husband: “He’s doing exactly what Wei Wuxian taught in his book... (the book WWX draws abt how to get rid of Lan Sect rules in MDZS Q). He actually does this a lot... he doesn’t follow a lot of the Lan rules while he pretends he does.”

Me: “Perfectly accurate Xichen.”

Nie Mingjue:

Husband: “He scares out everyone with that fucking huge powerful sword, but is soft for Xichen and heartbroken for the Princess Dimples...”

Me: “Are you shipping?”

Husband: “Do I have a choice here?”

And then, the scene in Wen Ruohan’s hall happens:

Husband: OMG, HIS EX-BOYFRIEND IS THE SPY!!! And he (NMJ) was so worried about him and oh my... oh no... oh...

The 3zun scene when NMJ awakes:

Husband: “Xichen is calling him “a-Yao”?”

Me: “Yep.”

Husband: “A-Yao saved him... they were hidden together... No wonders why Sect Leader Mustache is so angry... his ex-boyfriend with his other boyfriend and... fucking complicated.”

Me: “Fucking AND complicated.”

Husband: “Yeah, that’s what I meant.”

...

Husband: “Wait... you told me only Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan were Canon...”

Me: “Yeah, at least officially.”

Husband: “No way. This love triangle is VERY Canon for me. No way that this was not on purpose.”

Me: “Agree.”

Controversial moments: Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng

Husband noticed the draw in Wei Wuxian’s bed and some more details. I complemented with the book fragment abt the “childhood sweethearts” and also the context and meta this brought up here on Tumblr.

Husband: “Wen Qing said they don’t care about themselves, they both care much more about the other. The way they are. Each other’s first love. Now makes sense Jiang Cheng not liking Lan Zhan.

(We discussed this a bit more, both Psychoanalysts in this house. Once he finishes the show, I’ll try to share our conclusions about the Chengxian case - this is not about shipping, this is about pointing facts under the light of Psychoanalysis).

Sadly, half of his comments (probably the funnier ones this time) are not understandable if you’re not a pt-br speaker. :(

And now has three hours+ Husband is sleeping with The Untamed Instrumental Soundtrack. He ASKED for it. He always loved bamboo flutes, now he found out that guqin also calms him down. Yes, he already loves Lin Hai.