#What does Baylan Skoll Want?

[jonberry555]

What does Baylan Skoll Want? | STAR WARS THEORY

What does Baylan Skoll Want? What is he after? What is he searching for in Star Wars: Ahsoka? Aboloth? Something Else? What is it?

[skoulsons]

When I was a bit older than you are now, I watched everything I knew burn.

[yardikins]

Still rewatching Ahsoka teasers and I will forever be thinking about how in one of them, somebody chose to put music that sounds almost exactly like Across the Stars (the love theme) over the clip of Baylan talking about Anakin

[david-talks-sw]

I got a good feeling about "The Acolyte"

Not even kidding. Like, I've spoken before about why I'm wary of it.

George Lucas' Star Wars is something that intentionally has black and white morality, rather than shades of gray. Those movies are meant for kids and projecting a "gray" morality onto them then proclaiming it was George's vision all along is doing so in bad faith.

The narrative of the Prequels doesn't frame the Prequel Jedi in as negative a light as Leslye Headland, Dave Filoni, etc etc do.

See here for more details, but bottom line: yeah, a show that has a darksider as the underdog is bound to demonize the Jedi (who are the actual underdogs in the Prequels), and obviously that rubs me the wrong way.

BUT.

The trailer looks fucking cool. It really really does.

And more importantly? I've done some research... and Leslye Headland is ticking a lot of good boxes, in my book.

1. The Acolyte won't be a 10-hour movie.

I've criticized Disney Plus shows before, explaining that a big source for most of their issues is that these series are being structured as "long movies" rather than, y'know, actual shows.

But in this interview with Collider, Headland addresses that: it'll be a series. Not a long movie that you need to watch across four weeks.

Thank God. You have no idea how much that comforts me. Finally a showrunner who's, y'know, actually running a show.

And this goes hand in hand with what she told IGN, here, about how she's going about building suspense.

Yes! Exactly! That's how it's supposed to be!

Like, compare this to Baylan Skoll's storyline in Ahsoka.

In no possible way was that emotionally-fulfilling. For 8 episodes we had no idea what he was after, and the season ended where we still don't know. What does he want? What is he after? Your guess is as good as mine, it's something Mortis-related.

So yeah. Maybe getting the Emmy-nominated trained screenwriter on board to run this was a good idea.

2. Maybe the Jedi will not be as demonized as I originally thought.

Don't get me wrong. 80% of what she says about the Jedi makes me cringe. It's the typical fan's interpretation and y'all know I disagree with that interpretation.

It's painful to see her refer to the Jedi as an institution (not how the Prequels' narrative frames them) and to see her frame "Balance" in the "oh there's so many of them and just two Sith, that means the Force is out of balance" meaning... but at least she acknowledges the Jedi are a benevolent institution.

They're not an "elitist force hiding in their ivory tower" as others have described the Jedi.

Moreover, there'll be a variety of Jedi POVs, many personalities.

Yord Fandar, is described as a strictly by-the-book Jedi Knight and guardian from the Jedi Temple, is an overachiever and a rule follower.

The question now becomes: will the narrative frame him as "your typical Jedi" or is it just this one guy? I'm hoping it's the latter.

I also like how her reasoning goes re: Jedi drawing their lightsabers.

Which explains the hand-to-hand combat seen in the trailer.

This teenager is coming at Carrie-Ann Moss with a dagger, of course the Jedi won't draw her saber.

3. She's a fan of Star Wars... but a screenwriter first.

You can tell in the interviews she's a fan. She's using words like "BBY" and "EU" casually. In the above-linked interviews she's bringing up the Nightsisters, Timothy Zahn, The Clone Wars, she mentions she has a tattoo of Ralph McQuarrie's concept art of Leia, the High Republic books, etc.

She's done her homework. She's a fan.

But the vibe I'm getting from these interviews is that she's weaving in these various lore-elements in a more organic way, rather than in the "fan-servicey" way Dave Filoni has been doing in his shows.

The references and Easter Eggs will be there, but the narrative won't bend over itself just so you can get it. Crafting a good story comes first, and Andor is a beautiful illustration of why this is true.

Which is why I was never bothered about one of the writers never having watched Star Wars before getting the job. You need those fresh eyes when you're tackling something of this scale.

That makes sense to me. Maybe it's because of my own screenwriting experience, but yeah. That out-of-the box perspective is precious.

And like, obviously, that writer watched the films eventually, but for some reason everyone who bitched about Headland omitted that detail and opted for a more bad faith interpretation.

Hm. Wonder why.

Maybe it's the same reason that months ago this clipped audio circulated socials without context, in which she debates whether Star Wars only came from George Lucas and only Lucas is the key.

The FULL context of that interview reveals that she's actually:

debating the "autheur director" myth and positing that it was achieved by a collective of excellent filmmakers and craftspeople that George was skilled and smart enough to recruit...

the studios now think it's a simple as hiring one guy and throwing money at him, because they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. See Napoleon (2023) for example.

Yes, she also does a jab to the Prequels, which speaks to the generation of fans she's a part of... but overall she's giving Lucas props whilst also stating an ideological difference, that's it!

George is a proponent of the "autheur" theory, Leslye isn't.

However, guess what, in like half the talks George gave post-selling Star Wars? He's giving shoutouts to everyone who helped make the first film, even remembering their names.

So I'm not even sure he'd vehemently disagree with Leslye, in fact they'd prolly have a conversation about it and immediately bitch about how stupid studio executives are :D

But that's not as incendiary, is it? Again, the more I do the research, the more it feels like the reason most of these influencers are hating on her is purely sexist.

I mean, on IGN she's even acknowledging that she does plan on taking stock of fan reactions for Season 2.

It's not a guarantee that she'll incorporate the feedback, but at least that's more consideration than, say, JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson gave the fandom.

She's even bringing the moral ambiguity that the Gray Jedi-loving edge-lords love so much.

"No, she's a woke feminist! Anything she does is evil! Eww, girls!"

🙄

Needless to say... I'm gonna give it a shot.

I think it's gonna be a good show, I think it's gonna be a solid story.

I'm crossing my fingers that they won't as biased against the Jedi as it seems they'll be. Even if they are... if it's still an enjoyable experience, I'll gloss over it.

As @gffa states in this post:

Worst case? It's not a story from George. I can dismiss it from my headcanon without a moment's hesitation :D

[incorrect-kotor-quotes]

Thinking back on the Ahsoka series, I know many people, myself included, drew parallels between Baylan Skoll and Kreia. They both show a pretty cynical outlook, and Baylan's plan is likely rooted in distrust of the Force, much like Kreia's. That's about where the similarities end.

Whereas Kreia infamously cannot shut the hell up, Baylan is the opposite, excessively cryptic. One reason I find Baylan more sympathetic than Kreia is that he at least thinks he's going to help people once he... does whatever he's attempting to do. Kreia pays lip service to the idea of helping people by rejecting the Force, but it's pretty obvious manipulation and her actions aren't meant to help anyone except herself.

I think the better comparison is between Baylan and the Exile.

Both were Jedi Generals, both were among the few survivors of the Jedi Order's near-extinction. What really sets Baylan apart from Kreia and makes him closer to the Exile is choosing to teach Shin. In an age of darkness where many Force-sensitives never discovered their power, Baylan found one and trained her. Certainly a non-traditional apprenticeship, but still with elements of Jedi culture, like Shin's padawan braid. The foundation is presumably similar. Shin thinks of herself as a Jedi, though Baylan says she's something "more" than a Jedi, whatever that means. Explain yourself, you enticingly vague dilf.

As far as we know, Baylan never joined the Sith/Empire at any point, to any degree. He wasn't an inquisitor, or any kind of imperial agent, and he seems to loathe Vader specifically. How he and Shin survived for decades is uncertain, but they must've kept themselves far from galactic society, far from the Empire. In exile. There's no loyalty to Thrawn, the admiral just happened to be where Baylan wanted to go and Thrawn's followers could help him get there. When he recalls the Jedi, he's saddened they were killed and wants to understand why it happened. The Order wasn't what Baylan wanted it to be. He's devastated that it's gone.

Baylan's not dark, he's wounded.

[marvelstars]

I can go anywhere I want just not home: Ahsoka and Anakin

So my favourite part of the chapter was the way the actual ages of Ahsoka and Anakin played a part in their interaction, Ahsoka tells Anakin that he looks the same and Anakin answered that she looks old, which is true, Ahsoka is close to aging beyond Anakin´s age of death at 46 and while Anakin "looks" like clone wars Anakin, he isn´t just Anakin, this is post ROTJ Anakin, someone who already lived 23 years in the light and 23 years in the darkness, he is Vader, he is Anakin, he isn´t young at all and he is living in a whole other level in the force compared to the one Ahsoka lives, because she is still alive.

In fact the first question Anakin ask Ahsoka is if she still remembers Baylan Skoll, because that means she is still alive, she can still come back, "That´s good" he says.

I love how adult Ahsoka automatically reverts to her teenager personality when she noticed Anakin, she smiles, her eyes bright up, she makes jokes and teases Anakin just like in the good old times, because she missed him so much, in many ways he is her home and if he wasn´t there anymore she could not return home, as simple as that, she could not act as if Vader was Anakin, he was a broken version of her master, consumed by darkness, she probably was happy to hear from Luke Anakin died in the light but he was dead and she didn´t get the chance to say goobye but THIS, this is her brother/father, he is back, he looks the same, she can lower her guard, smile and tease because he is here to take care of things like he used to do when she was a child.

She only gets serious when Anakin isn´t automatically teasing her as well, when he says he needs to teach her one more thing, when he gets serious, then Ahsoka remembers Anakin isn´t just Anakin anymore, she knows him but he´s grown into someone she doesn´t know anymore either.

So Anakin begins by teasing her back, putting her at ease and then, he sends her to the heart of what´s bothering her, the clone wars. In many ways, she is still that child fighting over and over again, she no longer has a particular reason to keep fighting and she is tired. It´s such a good contrarts how while adult Ahsoka is teasing with Anakin, child Ahsoka is grumpy, she complains, she questions, she asks, just like she did in the past, this child is adult Ahsoka allowing herself to be a child again, to not have all the anwers and to complain to Anakin to give her a reason to keep fighting and explain why does it matter anymore. She could not do this with Hera and Sabine because Hera is her friend but they are not that close and she is also her superior in the alliance and Sabine depends on her to make the decisions and guide her but Anakin? He is family, she can complain all day long knowing he will try at least to listen to her and try to guide her to the best of his hability and this isn´t teenager Anakin either, this is post Vader Anakin so she knows she can get snippy, angry, mad and hostile with him all she wants, she has all the right to be and he will take it.

Anakin doesn´t just listens anymore, he counsels but he also pushes her into talking about what she doesnt want to talk about

"Do you really want a padawan?" "Being a teacher isn´t all that"

Low key Anakin is giving her the freedom of not being a teacher if she doesn´t want to be, Ahsoka looks at him affronted but it´s true, she accepted Sabine because Hera wanted her to and Sabine wanted her to but she herself isn´t sure she wants a padawan, in fact she already abandoned Sabine once, what is keeping her from doing the same again? and part of the reason she doesn´t know the answer is that she wants to be able to give Sabine or any other padawan something more than war, death and the training to be a warrior as a legacy but she is convinced there isn´t anything else she can give, because emotionally she is still that little girl forced to fight in a war, mourning for each death, mourning for her master fall and she believes that´s all she is ever going to be in the future. She fears her master fate because she believes that is going to be her fate too.

So Anakin, Vaderkin, tries to explain she has to adapt to the times, his master teached him to be a guardian of peace because that´s what he was, Anakin teached her how to be a soldier because they were fighting in a war and she would have died if he didn´t teach her how to survive war but this doesn´t mean she can´t adapt to the times she and her padawan are living and this is precisely what Ahsoka is refusing to do, she is stil in mourning so she can´t enjoy her present.

Anakin tells her she is more and even if she believes she can´t because she has his teachings in her, she is more because he also is way more than Vader.

So when Ahsoka answers him "you are more but more dangerous and powerful than anybody thoguht" and if that´s what he is, then what hope is there for her if she has inside herself his legacy, his teachings?

Is this what this is about? I gave you a choice live or die

Here Anakin gets mad because she isn´t understanding, she has his legacy but she isn´t him, his fall, his redemption, his good and his bad side are his own, not hers and in time she will have to make her own decisions, adapt, grow and teach her padawan what she had learned, they are the legacy of previous masters but they are also MORE, they are also what each one of them adds to that legacy.

So Anakin brings his other half, Vader, to teach her and test her with the same lesson Anakin learned along with Luke, his Son, you are more, you make your own choices and you can choose again and again and that´s what defines you, only you can define yourself, not others. He pushes Ahsoka with Vader´s persona to defy her to live once again but he also pushes her by showing her , her deepest fear, her falling, her becoming a darksider and he gives her an ultimatum, kill him and die herself, not just physically but the light inside of her, or live and stay in the light.

Ahsoka chooses the light and lets her lightsabers fall, just like Luke did, her lightsabers are no longer her life, she is more than war, she is more than just a warrior fighting in an eternal war but more than that, she is still herself and it´s her choice if she wants to stay being herself or die and fall.

Anakin reverts back from Vader to himself again, proud of her, happy with her choice, he reverts to show her how if he, who was in darkness for so many years, buried and dead inside could still come back, then there´s so much hope for her to make her life anew by not letting her past or her lightsabers define her anymore and this is symbolized with her being taken away from the water towards safety.

In the end, he didn´t just wanted to teach her how to live physically again or how to leave behind her past, enjoy her present and enjoy life, he also wanted her to learn she must live by not falling to the darkness and even if she falls, there´s "Hope for her still" because there was also hope for him as well and now Ahsoka can remember him without mourning, without regret.

Just so many great interactions between them. Loved this chapter. Hope we see what other scenes Anakin is going to have because this story isn´t done yet.

PD: Post ROTJ dead Anakin is so relaxed, happy and vibing, love it, honestly, good for him.

[jedimandalorian]

Ahsoka Episode 8 “The Jedi, the Witch, and the Warlord”: The Story, the Symbolism, and the Score Part One

As the episode begins, we hear sinister drumming, then a low rumbling as the cargo transfer to the Chimaera is completed. Thrawn orders the dispatch of two TIE fighters. Sinister music plays as Morgan receives the “gift of shadows.” As she makes her pledge to the sisterhood and the old ways, Morgan’s Theme (the Nightsister Theme) is heard. Morgan’s eyes glow green and then turn black as power is transferred to her by the Nightmothers. Morgan receives the Blade of Talzin, a reference to the sword used by Mother Talzin in The Clone Wars animated series.

Thrawn’s Theme plays triumphantly as the Ahsoka title card and the episode title appear onscreen: “The Jedi, the Witch, and the Warlord.” This title is an obvious reference to C. S. Lewis’ novel The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and it isn’t the first reference to Lewis’ Narnia books in the Filoniverse. The World Between Worlds itself was inspired by Lewis’ “wood between the worlds” which allows passage across time and space to other worlds.

The title of the episode does have a deeper meaning, but this may not be apparent until one has watched and fully understood what the episode is really about. The “Jedi” in the title is Ahsoka, who corresponds to Lewis’ Aslan, the magnificent golden lion who is the Christ-figure in the Narnia books, not unlike Tolkien’s Gandalf. The “Witch” in the title is Morgan Elsbeth and all of the evil that she and the White Witch of Narnia represent. The “Warlord” is Thrawn, who will travel between the galaxies just as the magic wardrobe in the Narnia books allowed passage between the worlds. Lewis’ novel is about many things, but at its core, it is a story about redemption. In the novel, young Edmund Pevensie, in his selfish desire for Turkish Delight, makes an a dangerous alliance with the White Witch and betrays his siblings to get what he wants. He later regrets this betrayal and repents of his selfishness. However Edmund’s debt must be paid. Instead of dying a traitor’s death, Aslan is sacrificed in Edmund’s place. The White Witch slays the Lion, but due to the Deep Magic from before the dawn of time, Aslan resurrects triumphantly and defeats the Witch.

Sabine Wren, whose all-to-human desire to be reunited with Ezra Bridger, led her to make an alliance with Baylan Skoll in episode 4 of the Ahsoka series. Sabine didn’t destroy the star-map because of her selfish desire to see Ezra again, and by making this choice, she set in motion the return of Thrawn and the possibility of another galactic war. By making this selfish but understandable choice, Sabine failed as a Jedi. As in Edmund’s story, Sabine is on a journey towards redemption for what she’s done.

The next scene is of Ahsoka’s ship hovering low above the traveling Noti pods. Onboard the ship Huyang and Ezra bicker as Ezra constructs a new lightsaber for himself.

“Who taught you how to build a lightsaber anyway?” Huyang asks.

“Kanan Jarrus,” replies Sabine Wren from the doorway of the workshop. She smiles at Ezra.

“He was my master,” Ezra says, his glance lingering upon Sabine for a moment. “He taught me everything I know.”

Quiet music accompanies this conversation. When Huyang says that the relationship between master and apprentice is as challenging as it is meaningful, the camera pulls in closer to reveal Sabine’s expression, which shows sadness and even remorse.

A quiet rendition of Sabine’s Theme is heard as Ezra completes the construction of his new lightsaber. When Ezra asks “Hey Sabine, Ahsoka ever teach you how to…?” he turns to looks at her and sees that she is gone.

Ezra asks Huyang what happened between Sabine and Ahsoka. Huyang tells Ezra about the Purge of Mandalore, and that Ahsoka felt that if Sabine unlocked her potential at that time she would become dangerous.

Sabine exits the ship to talk with Ahsoka who is sitting atop the shuttle as it hovers. Soft strings accompany the conversation. Ahsoka’s Theme is heard, which is then followed by Sabine’s Theme played by cellos. Ahsoka knows what Sabine did but says that she will be there for her no matter what happens next. They discuss whether Sabine has kept up with her training.

“Being a Jedi isn’t about wielding a lightsaber,” Ahsoka explains. “Train your mind. Train your body. Trust in the Force.”

Ezra exits the ship, announcing that he just finished building his new lightsaber.

The music is much louder as two TIE fighters open fire upon them and the Noti caravan. Ahsoka’s ship takes a hit. Ahsoka and Ezra levitate it to save the Noti from being crushed. Sabine and Huyang attempt to pilot the damaged ship. On Sabine’s signal, Ezra and Ahsoka hurl the ship towards the two TIEs and the wings of the T-6 shuttle clip them, destroying both of their attackers. Ezra and Ahsoka run to the site of the crashed T-6.

“Got ‘em” Sabine says to them after exiting the smoking shuttle. She surveys the damage to the Noti pods. Ezra remarks that this will slow them down a bit, but Ahsoka responds “only if we let it.”

End of part one. To be continued! Let me know what you think of this analysis so far. It’s going to be a long one.

[twinsunstars]

My Thoughts on Parts 1 and 2 of Ahsoka - A Discussion Post

Ahsoka premiered on Tuesday at 6 PM PT, and fans were raving about it. Fans of Star Wars: Rebels were overjoyed with the content they got. Let's dive into this week's premiere episodes, MASTER AND APPRENTICE, and TOIL AND TROUBLE.

SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE SERIES YET!

I'm starting off with the loth-cat because this little thing is just so ADORABLE. Sabine takes care of it so well, and it loves her. It must be protected. The cat will keep you company as you read.

The series started with a movie-like introduction, words scrolling up for us to read. I liked how they did that and gave us a little preview to what happened before we started off. Baylan Skoll and Shin Hati arrived and landed in a New Republic ship, attacking the crew with their lightsabers and rescuing Morgan Elsbeth, who was held prisoner on that ship. Baylan had at one point talked about childrens' tales in the Jedi Order, which indicates he was a former Jedi, Not much is yet known about his past, but we do know from the trailer that he had known Anakin Skywalker.

Later, Morgan revealed herself to be a Nightsister of Dathomir, which is interesting as she talks about her past. She had used Nightsister magick herself after she obtained the map, which amazed me. I really want to know more about Morgan's history as a Nightsister. The three are ready to rise to power and locate Grand Admiral Thrawn, wherever he could be.

Ahsoka Tano is first seen at the remains of a Nightsister Temple. The details of the Temple got my curiosity peaked, and it's interesting to see more of Nightsister culture.

Huyang, an ancient droid who used to live in the Jedi Temple and helped younglings build their lightsabers, is Ahsoka's companion as he helps her escape the droid attack. I love how Huyang is here with Ahsoka and giving her and Sabine advice, but it still intrigues me on how he is here. What happened to him when the Jedi Order was taken down? How and when did Ahsoka find him? I'm still researching about it myself, but I'd love it if anyone could share some sources.

Moving on to Lothal. This beautiful planet that was once ruled by the Empire in darkness now shines brightly under its sun, the loth-cats running in the fields freely. I really wish Ezra could have been here to see his home liberated and shining after the fall of the Empire. The day he comes back, he'll love it.

We got to see Ryder Azadi in live-action with his original voice actor (Clancy Brown) speaking to the crowds of Lothal. He stands in front of the iconic mural last seen in the finale of Star Wars: Rebels, depicting the Ghost Crew, the heroes of Lothal. The mural is on public display for everyone to see.The day celebrates the liberation of Lothal and Ezra Bridger's sacrifice. Alongside him, Jai Kell appears, who is now a Senator of Lothal. I loved these cameos, it got my Rebels heart screaming.

Sabine Wren was announced at the event to speak to the public, but she was a no-show. Sabine raced away with her speeder, and HER SOUNDTRACK? That needs to be out there now. No one can stop this girl. I love how Natasha Liu Bordizzo portrays Sabine, she really captures Sabine's stubborness and strength.

Sabine has added her artistic touch everywhere she has been; from the tower, Ahsoka's ship, her helmets, and everything. I love the little drawings of Loth-cats she's done. I loved the detail of her chipped nail polish. When she brought her armor out again, I loved that she added a Purgill on one piece, as memory.

When Sabine had turned on Ezra's message for her, I was both screaming and trying not to tear up. Eman Esfandi does such a good job portraying the character, and it's been so long since we've heard Ezra talk on screen. (I want the blueberry boi home now.) He had called Sabine a "sister", which I thought was adorable. Sabine smiled to herself hearing it.

(I know that some Sabezra shippers are a bit upset over it. I see them both ways, and I'm fine with whichever direction they go, and I like to imagine them either way as an alternate universe thing for the fun of it.)

Sabine had taken the map ball from Ahsoka even though she had told her not to (where do you think she got that, Ahsoka?), and managed to open it. Shin Hati had been sent by Baylan to go find the map, in which she succeeded in obtaining. Sabine quickly grabbed Ezra's lightsaber to fight against her. I find it interesting how she had made her own modifications to it but it is still Ezra's lightsaber, despite Huyang saying it is hers now. Shin and Sabine engaged in a heated fight, ending with Shin impaling Sabine and taking the map.

Huyang talks to Sabine at an infirmary on Lothal. As she recovers from her impale wound, Huyang calls Ezra's lightsaber hers and discusses Sabine's journey as a Padawan. I think it was confirmed that she was not Force-Sensitive, but I see some articles saying that she is, but she is weak in her abilities. I'm still a little confused, and I think she maybe is Force-Sensitive but doesn't fully have the ability like other Jedi, but Sabine has potential with her own talents and as a Mandalorian, as we know from seeing her in Rebels.

The duo of Hera and Chopper is always so fun to watch. I like how Mary Elizabeth Winstead embodies the character of Hera, and how she worries for Ezra. Once Ahsoka had returned with the map ball, hope grew in her that this could be a chance to find him. She has never stopped being the courageous fighter she is.

Chopper is himself, of course. And he's everything we love. During mid-battle, Chopper argues with Hera, most likely asking, "Hera, did you go through my stuff?" I love his energy and attitude, it's so funny and loveable.

Marrok was the name given to this Inquisitor before the series had released. There were many theories surrounding this inquisitor potentially being Ezra, but thankfully it's not. (Hopefully.) The character is said to be the very last Inquisitor, and has a mysterious background, Hopefully we can learn more about him.

Sabine is ready to return as Ahsoka's padawan, coming back to her signature short haircuits and rocking her Mandalorian armor. She visits the mural, tapping Ezra's face and looking at the mural with hope before departing Lothal with Ahsoka, ready to get the map back and find Ezra and Thrawn.

The massive structure seen being built towards the end of the second episode is said to be called the Eye of Sion. Morgan oversees it's construction, and I have heard it's something that will help bring Thrawn back. There are theories surrounding it regarding a Sith lord, but I'm still doing my research and looking up things. It'll be interesting to see more of what this is about.

Anyways, the premiere episodes of Ahsoka were a blast to watch. I'm excited for the next episodes, and I hope to learn more about Sabine's journey as a Padawan. (And Ezra better be home soon.) I also hope Zeb and Kallus show up soon, and Jacen Syndulla has to make an appearance. I also hope the loth-wolves would show up, that would be fun. But the journey has just begun.

[tikkisfanart]

The Return of Thrawn… and C’baoth?

Story hypothesis of how The Bad Batch season 3 could re-canonize Timothy Zahn’s Heir to the Empire

(Spoiler warning for The Bad Batch season 2, and The Mandalorian season 3)

Before the Ahsoka show came out, I figured I would read the Thrawn books to prep for the show. Even though the first several books were de-canonized after Disney bought the franchise, I feel that Dave Filoni has tried to be respectful to Timothy Zahn’s original character of Thrawn and his story. I feel like it could still be possible to bring back a lot from the original book, Heir to the Empire.

First off, I want to just point out that the events in Ahsoka do not necessarily have to replace the original story. In Heir to the Empire, we are not given the “how” of Thrawn’s return. In fact, he was a mysterious warlord that the original saga heroes didn’t know existed until he just suddenly showed up. The first season of Ahsoka could just be the bridge between Rebels and Heir to the Empire to explain this return.

Even though there are some things in the new canon that has changed, I do think there are other things that could still be revived through the final season of The Bad Batch. Anyone else who has read Heir to the Empire may have thought about this too, but I just wanted to share my hypothesis.

Mount Tantiss, and the Guardian

In Heir to the Empire, Thrawn travels to Wayland—where Mount Tantiss is located. While there, Thrawn seeks the Guardian and wants him to take him to the emperor’s storehouse inside the mountain. He encounters a strange, old man who says he could lead him to the Guardian. The old man takes him to the crypt of the Guardian and proudly proclaims that he killed the Guardian.

Mount Tantiss is the secret cloning laboratory of the new empire in The Bad Batch—the one where Omaga and Crosshair are being held. I suspect that “the Guardian” of Mount Tantiss is Dr. Royce Hemlock.

As the story continues, the man claims to be the jedi master Joruus C’baoth. He actuality turns out to be a clone of the dark jedi Jorus C’baoth, who disappeared before the Clone Wars. In Ahsoka, perhaps Baylan Skoll could have been the “replacement” dark jedi for the new canon. However, I feel like they could still bring C’baoth back.

Force cloning

I hypostasize that in The Bad Batch the secret project that Hemlock wants Nala Se to work on is the cloning of the dark jedi—but not just the cloning of the man, himself, but also the cloning of the ability to wield the force.

I know some people suspect that Omega is an experiment of this kind of force cloning. Perhaps she is. I actually suspect that all the original members of the Bad Batch might be as well. Perhaps the attempt to clone force sensitivity is what gave each of them their special enhancements. However, the difference is that they cannot wield the force. Force wielding is what Hemlock wants Nala Se to clone, and it actually does work. The clone of C’baoth can wield the force.

That brings to question: if force cloning is possible, why does Moff Gideon have trouble with it? In The Mandalorian season 3, he admits that this is why he needed blood from Grogu—because he needed a force sensitive subject to clone force sensitivity. But why doesn’t it work for him? It is well after The Bad Batch, so why did he not have the knowledge to complete it? I suspect that the knowledge was lost when Mount Tantiss fell, and that is something that The Bad Batch may just explain.

The Clone Rebellion and the Fall of Mount Tantiss

There is no question that at the end of The Bad Batch, there will be a final battle at Mount Tantiss to free Omega, Crosshair, and all of their clone brothers.

Before reading the Thawn books, I suspected that during this inevitable infiltration the Zillo beast would play a big part and possibly be the downfall of Hemlock. However, my hypothesis changed when I read Heir to the Empire and clone C’baoth claimed to have killed the emperor’s guardian. I do think the Zillo beast will still play a big role in the fall of Mount Tantiss, but it will not be the one to end Hemlock. C'baoth will be. It would be poetic irony: the project that Hemlock obsessed so much over would ultimately bring his demise.

Mount Tantiss has returned from de-canonization, so it is possible that the Guardian, force cloning, and C’baoth may all be brought back as well. They could all be revived in the final season of The Bad Batch, paving the way for the Heir to the Empire movie. Perhaps not everything in the original canon has been lost. On the other hand, perhaps Dave Filoni and the creators are planning to actually take it all in a different direction, but I can see how they could still bring back the original canon if they want. But that is just my hypothesis. If anything, I hope you enjoyed my nerdy ramble.

[niobiumao3]

Oh Baylan

So the more I think about it the more I suspect naming Shin and Baylan for Skoll and Hati is not just an affectation.

Skoll and Hati chase the sun and the moon across the sky in Norse Mythology. When they reach them and devour them Ragnarok will begin and the world will end, ushering in the next world.

Baylan says a few key things about creation needing to come after destruction (a bit of stellar nucleosynthesis there to go with his name), and he also 1) blames Ahsoka for Anakin's fall vis a vis her 'abandoning' him, 2) talks about Anakin's legacy being one of death.

So, he's well aware Thrawn's going to start a war, and plainly doesn't care, but he's also not terribly invested in Thrawn or Morgan's designs. Why would that be?

My suspicion stands: he wants the temple remains on Thrawn's ship to get into the World Between Worlds so he can kill Hitler Palpatine.

I actually don't think it's Anakin he intends to kill. My reasoning here is based on the fact that by now everyone knows the Emperor was The Real Problem and Vader was just his instrument. More-over, if Baylan did think Anakin was the root issue I don't think he'd have chatted with Ahsoka the way he did.

This leads me to two things:

It's clear Filoni thinks Anakin was inherently bad, i.e. he was always going to Fall, which is what Ahsoka is no doubt going to discover, so it won't matter if Baylan DOES kill Palpatine

Even if we assume the above weren't true he'd need to kill Palpatine back when he became a Chancellor--and all that does is free up Dooku to do what he wants, and I bet that still means corrupting Anakin.

Anyways, we'll see if I'm right (I'm usually not lol) but I feel a lot of Baylan's revealed motivations and behaviors suggest he feels okay with promising people stuff because he's just going to unmake reality anyways. Sure, Sabine! You can go see Ezra. I'm going to get rid of this timeline anyways. :)

[kalevalakryze]

Baylan Skoll was never chosen to be a padawan, in this essay I will...

(this is only going to look familiar to a handful of you)

Warning, long post below with excerpts + notes about "The Jedi Path" by Daniel Wallace

"Everybody thinks they know what a Jedi is-that we all serve in the Army of the Light and fight the Sith Lords, or that we're all lightsaber battlemasters and starfighter aces. It just isn't so. Jedi can serve the Republic in other ways too. The Jedi Service Corps is an honorable alternative for any graduating Initiate, and he or she should be proud to serve among its ranks. When most initiates hit early adolescence, they seek to pair up with Masters to begin their Padawanship apprenticeships. If you are not selected, then what? You can try again the following season, but eventually, the Temple Instructors may tell you that you've run out of chances-and then the Reassignment Council steps in. So I'm thinking there was just something Baylan couldn't get; Maybe even the connection to a Jedi Master, he just didn't seem like the kind of Jedi that should have been on the battlefront, he was more of a homebody Jedi, like Yoda, or even Jocasta Nu. Maybe, after failing so often, the Reassignment Council steps in, and I see him joining the Educational branch, staying at the temple to help teach and to help in the archives, one of these devouts of the pillar of knowledge. A Note in the Book From Palpatine: "I imprisoned the surviving Jedi Service Corps Members on Byss. Even the strongest were easy to turn to the dark side." Maybe Baylan was one of these survivors, and while it's clear he didn't go full dark, what did he have to do to survive? Knowing that the younglings he'd so caringly guided were lost to the Force, that the world he'd devoted himself to studying and understanding was gone, and that this new world was just dark, and it was an 'adapt or die' situation The Jedi Path section about the EduCorps: The Education Corps, or EduCorps, consists of Scholars, teachers, and archivists. All Jedi are expected to be teachers to some degree, but the EduCorps goes far beyond that. They work under the supervision of the Temple's Chief Librarian and spend most of their days cataloging and translating. So my thoughts here are, as an archivist who spends his days combing through Jedi Holocrons, he would hear about the Mother, or Abeloth, would read about these Mortis Gods and have an intimate understanding. And when the Jedi were killed, he could recall these stories, he was the last one alive who'd ever heard them from the holocrons, after all. He would be able to remember the powers these holocrons detailed the gods as having, would trust that if anyone could save their history, it would be them, but only the Mother sounds powerful enough to stop the Empire. Finding Shin was a mistake. He was no Master, after all. He'd been granted the rank of General in the republic like all the others, yet he didn't command an army, he worked in libraries and traveled to conquered/liberated worlds to read their texts and to enter their stories into the history of the republic. He goes to a planet in the expansion zone, and he meets a child, there are so few left in this world, no one for him to share his stories with, that when she displays force sensitivity, he takes her, just as the Jedi had done to younglings all those years ago. And he trains her, he gives her a Padawan's braid and he calls her Initiate, and when it's time for her Initiate Trials, he is happy to accept her as his Padawan, like no one had ever done for him. And Shin is so attentive and an amazing student, just like the younglings in the temple, but he cannot burden her with the knowledge of Abeloth. Does not want to ruin the perception he knew she was creating of the Jedi, but he also keeps her training limited, 'The old ways led them to ruin so we will create our own,' 'yes,master' etc etc

[ingellvargallus]

so. baylan skoll.

baylan is ahsoka's direct parallel.

he's what she would have been if she hadn't continued on the path of light.

because with this episode, we see that he's not faithful to thrawn nor morgan, not 100%, and he never really was - and at the beginning he already showed a bit of hesitation about having to kill ahsoka because "there are so few jedi left".

but at the same time that he's a direct parallel to ahsoka, he's also basically a dookan or anakin (superficially at least), because both dookan and anakin fell to the dark side quickly and with enormous force: like, they plummeted. and they both started out wanting to use it for something "good": it was a matter of weeks at most before they fell for good. just like baylan. what he wants to do does not seem malignant, it's not evil as we supposed it would be. he doesn't want the Empire back: he wants to break the cycle. He can't remain a Jedi to do that, and so he isn't one.

but baylan remains non-sith and not consumed by the dark side even after years with this motivation of his, even clearly not believing anymore in the jedi or the light side. why? because his motivation isn't inherently evil? those of dookan and anakin weren't, either: dookan wanted to fix the corrupt government and anakin wanted to save padmé.

the difference in why dookan and anakin fell faster and harder than baylan is because they both had a motivation that came from a rage or hatred so great that it motivated them without equal, whether it was a righteous rage or not. baylan is only driven by survivor's guilt: baylan's motivation is grief, which is something that doesn't drive us to change something violently like righteous anger, but consumes us slowly and silently. he doesn't want to bring back the Empire or the Jedi, he wants to stop this cycle of change and consequently grief.

while ahsoka, for example, has an entire episode about overcoming her grief and moving on, accepting the natural cycle of change. baylan wants to control it to overcome it.

[skoulsons]

OK so this is taken from a huge word vomit in a Google doc im writing about baylan and shin. please forgive me if anything is incoherent bc it is currently 3am and I’m afraid words are no good no more

Baylan doesn’t want a place in the Empire. No seat, no fame, no power of that kind. He’s searching for something different than what the Empire could give him. Instead, I think in the most open-minded way he can, is giving Shin an opportunity away from him. Sure, he has told her what he thinks about that power and it’s not what he’s searching for. But Shin has also expressed her doubts over it, as well as over Baylan’s plan for Peridea, and Baylan has heard and accounted for them.

I don't believe at all that he wants to part ways with Shin, but he is dead set on believing what his path is, and recognizes that Shin does not share the same. I think he’s doing it out of love, for lack of a better term. He’s not keeping her from what he sees, but he is simply recognizing that their ideas for the future don’t line up. I see it as a mix of him wanting her to find her footing, protecting her, and also giving her an open future that aligns with her ambitions instead of blindly following the power he wants (as much as I believe it dreads him to be permanently apart from her).

But I also don’t believe Shin wants that. I think she’d be willing to compromise and follow him. I say that because of the “you won’t help” / “I can help you” parallel. She looks distraught over that, as I mentioned. She wants Baylan’s help, his guidance, his presence. I think parting ways is the worst thing Baylan can do for Shin, but he doesn’t really recognize it as such. I don't think Baylan would want to compromise because what he wants, sees, feels, or senses could be violent or kill him. I think if he can prevent it, he wants Shin away from it. He’s trying to protect her from a future that could hurt her.

It almost feels like miscommunication.

-

OKAY SO THE REVELATION I NEARLY SHOUTED OVER

for those of you, if any, are tlou fans, this is… horrifyingly similar to the ranch argument

To try to summarize for those who don’t know, Joel and Ellie are forced together across post-apocalyptic America because Ellie is immune to the virus and Joel was tasked with escorting her to a group of people (the fireflies) who were going to try and make a cure out of Ellie’s immunity.

Joel’s brother, Tommy, worked for the fireflies. They make it to his place after a few months spent together. They’ve bonded well by this point, but Joel’s grief over the loss of his daughter still haunts his relationship with Ellie, and Joel tries to get rid of her once they’ve finally made it to Tommy’s.

Ellie finds out, runs away, and her and Joel argue. Joel tries to argue that she will be safer with Tommy instead of himself. Ellie denies that. She says that everyone she’s cared for has died, except for him. She tells him that she wouldn’t be safer with anyone else except for him.

-

While it’s not so much based around Joel (and some of Ellie’s grief over Riley and Sam) grief, I feel such a similarity of Joel wanting to get rid of Ellie and baylan parting with shin

Joel is afraid of growing more attached to Ellie out of fear that he’ll lose another child. He’s afraid he’ll kill her. It’s a mix of things. So he tries to get rid of her to protect her (he’s such a dumb dad)

That’s similar to what Baylan seems to be doing with shin, at least to me. Trying to part with her, though I believe he definitely does not want to, because their paths don’t align, but also because I don’t think he wants her to get hurt from something that is still unsure (especially with the dead padawan hc)

Baylan is making a decision that I believe he thinks is for the better of both of them. Baylan gets the power and beginning he wants while shin is safe. Shin finds her own power. She follows her ambition and finds a path fit for her. Baylan doesn’t lose another padawan. As Joel was kind of trying (to convince himself) to do. Ellie is safer with Tommy. She gets to her destination. Joel doesn’t lose another child.

The only thing is is it… discounts (??) what the daughters want

Ellie wanted to stay with Joel because all he’s done is protect her and care for her and proven that he is the person she feels safe with. He is what she knows

Shin wants to stay with Baylan because, well, that’s her master. He’s trained and taught her in the way they live. He’s protected her and very obviously cares about her. He’s what she knows

all in all—single dads try to make decision that they think is the best for them and their daughters for separate paths and making sure their girls are protected and safe when in reality the daughters just want their Dads TM

[yardikins]

I want to know more about Baylan and Anakin’s relationship now so bad after that teaser you don’t understand they’re fascinating I want to put them under a microscope and study them

[pawsimses]

Brainrot Trash Idea about Shin and Baylan

So I've been seeing a fair amount of stuff about Baylan and Shin, and bc I'm a Sucker for Father-Daughter characters, decided to play with a few headcanons. None of which are remotely close to Canon and a few AUs bc I can.

General HC Rambling

* Shin is Baylan's actual daughter. Yeah, I know she's (99%) not in canon but look. The idea of Baylan having and then training his own daughter to be something greater than the Jedi lives rent-free in my head.

* He got Shin from a young age to refer to him as "Master" instead of "Father" for both their sakes. Smother the risk of attachment and keep them both safer should the Empire catch on. (Jokes on him, because both of them are very attached to each other).

(For Shin, there actually isn't a real difference between terms; for her, calling him "Master" is her just saying "Father". He is her father, not her mentor, in her POV. She just uses a different word is all. (Help them, plz)).

* On that not of terminology, been thinking and I know it's probably just a harmless/unimportant honorific, but the fact Baylan has the title of Lord makes my brain go "what if Baylan was actually of noble origins?". Which then shifts into "Shin having a separate last name from her father is due to Baylan gifting her his mother's maiden name, for the same reasons he has her refer to him as her mentor instead of parent". It's also a way, in his twisted mind, to honor his family nobility when he himself failed it (by being a Jedi).

(Also imagine the Skoll/Hati family coat of arms being *wolves*)

* I even got genealogy HC worked out cause- "well Shin doesn't look like Baylan". And yes but hear me out: she takes after another relative of his (sister, mom, aunt, grandmother, etc.). Maybe she reminds him of his mom, idk. But if so, maybe that's why he gives her the surname Hati? As a quiet honoring? Either way, she takes after his family members, just not him strictly lol.

* (I'll be honest, her hair looked dyed and frankly speaking, I do HC Baylan as being a dark brunette before he went full Grey, so not a far stretch to also consider her inheriting his hair at least.)

* Back on the Hati surname, thinking more also led to "its a family name but farther back in lineage before it got changed to Skoll somewhere down the line". Kinda like how the Bakarn family in SWTOR used to be the Bakvalens before it got changed to a more common surname. Either way, the name Skoll puts a target on Shin's back and Baylan isn't taking that risk.

* (Ngl, part of me now wants to play w the idea of Baylan actually being a descendant of the Bakarn family. Idk if he'd be related to Syo tho, for obvious reasons.)

*Regarding upbringing, Baylan was a single dad front day 1, raising Shin on the run. Who the other parent is or if she even has one, no one knows. (Mostly bc I'm lazy and single dad Baylan lives rent free in my head). They mostly drifted from place to place, never really calling somewhere home. Hence another reason why Shin is very attached to Baylan; he's her only source of stability. He is "home".

*Leaving Shin was hard for her, but it was also hard for Baylan. It's not that he doesn't love his daughter. He absolutely does. But he's driven by personal ambition to seek this unknown power on this strange world and that takes priority. And truthfully, it's dangerous. He knows it's dangerous. But it calls to him in a way he can't ignore. In a way Shin can't hear. And if For her sake. Even if tearing away from her rips him in pieces; it's dangerous what he's doing and he won't drag her into it.

(Mentally he tells himself he's doing this all for her. For a better future, for her.)

(Shin, of course, is too attached to her father to actually leave the planet.)

AU VERSE HC

On another hand, been seeing a fair amount of Baylan/Morgan content lately and THAT got me thinking of "Shin is a Baylan/Morgan child". Which...

-Half-Dathomiran Shin. Half-Dathomiran Shin with Morgan's markings.

-Shin whose been raised by a human most of her life, who isn't at all attuned to her Nightsister half. Who doesn't really know Morgan and probably is unaware she's her parent.

-Shin who isn't attuned to her Nightsister heritage, suddenly experiencing summons of green fire and magic when her parents leave her behind for their own paths.

Nightsister-Dark Jedi hybrid class Shin Hati.

[archduke42]

My thoughts on Ahsoka

I kind of wanted to wait a few days before giving my thoughts. Lots of mixed feelings, some things I liked, and the things I didn't like are the typical writing problems Dave Filoni consistantly commits. I liked: The Fantasy space opera of it. Things like Ahsoka vs the space fighters, the Night sister magic, the Epic notions of the Mortis Gods and World Between Worlds, etc. I often take issue with how Filoni writes his stories, but when he writes an Epic fantasy energy, I do enjoy it. I love doing that in my own writings, so it taps into my vibe. I liked how Thrawn and the Night sisters and undead stormtroopers have such a Gothic thing (Ominous music, the chants of the soldiers, etc.) His Star destroyer has that feel of an old castle in a Dracula movie, which is pretty cool.

I did like the idea of Merrok being an undead Inquisitor, but I refused to take part in the speculations of who he was. I certainly got tired and anxious over the whole speculation of it being Barriss Offee. I just wish they had established early on he was a new character.

Overall, I am a flexible forgiving fan when a creator takes some liberties. Some things in the show were pretty cool, like the mysterious Planet Piridea, the Night Sisters working with Thrawn, the samurai motif of the scavengers on the planet and the little aliens with big shells for defense, etc. The light saber fights were pretty awesome (Ahsoka vs Morgan was quite excellent) I liked Baylan and Shin. Interesting characters with a bit of mystery of where they came from and where they want to go. Though Ray Stevenson has passed away, I have no doubt Filoni will try to continue or conclude the journey of Baylan Skoll somehow. I also get Filoni's Wolf thing that he puts in all his projects. It's a bit amateurish to have wolf stuff everywhere but I do that kind of thing in my fanfiction sometimes. Skoll, Hati, Morgan and Merrok are all from some kind of Wolf based mythology. But then that's where I start to take issue with Filoni (with all due respect to fans who liked the elements I am taking issue with) Much of Ahsoka is his own, unstructured, frenetic fan fiction. He changes and retcons things at the drop of a bucket. He drops things in our laps with no back story or explanation and expects us to just accept it. When did Ahsoka and Sabine develop this Master/Apprentice relation? Why was Sabine being trained to be a Jedi? How did Sabine's family perish? How does somebody with such low Force sensitivity suddenly have Force powers in less than a week when most skilled padawans take a lifetime to do what Sabine did with Ezra? Why would Sabine be such a rebellious teen skipping the Lothal celebrations? She could have just said no thanks if she didn't want to be there. Why is she the trouble maker now, while Ezra seems to be the sensible one? It's such a character switch from Rebels, when Ezra was the loose cannon when she was the team player. HOW is Thrawn going to be a threat to the galaxy with one rickety, barely working Star Destroyer and dwindling resources? I suppose he might unite the warlords but that is going to take effort if they are not impressed with what he's starting out with. Plus, I have never been keen on Filoni's portrayal of Thrawn. The trouble is that Thrawn is the most brilliant military mind in Star Wars. Not to anger anyone, but there is no way he was going to lose against the Rebels. He only gets defeated when there is an insubordinate officer, a mysterious obstacle like the Bendu, or just plain fan fiction contrivance. Filoni and the creators at Lucasfilm really should study Napoleon, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, General George S Patton, etc to create a believable military villain of this magnitude. But that's just my opinion. Thrawn is so unbeatable it would take a pack of Space Whales to totally counter his abilities (Another epic moment I enjoyed at the end of rebels) Not a fan of Filoni just dropping these plot complications without any backstory to explain them, but he does that all the time. He relies too much on fans just figuring canon out on their own when he really needs to explain things a little better. Also not a fan of Filoni's penchant for letting the protagonists be irresponsible yet suffer no consequences whatsoever for their actions.

Ahsoka disobeys the council/Anakin/etc suffers no real consequence for insubordination Ezra goes AWOL to try to save Kenobi from Maul, which would have severe repercussions, but gets a slap on the wrist and a wagging finger Sabine disobeys Ahsoka multiple times and endangers the New Republic by letting Thrawn have the capability to return, but no consequences are ever forthcoming. Now, I know sometimes it's exciting when the Star Wars heroes are mavericks who dismiss the rules for quick actions, but I'm 52, and it kind of chafes me when people break rules for selfish reasons and create problems for those of us who play by the rules. I sometimes wish Filoni would have characters go the common sense path, but there you go. The Asian Senator follows the rules, he gets boo hissed by everyone, while Hera breaks the rules (even with Good intentions) and is celebrated as a maverick hero. I got nothing but respect for Hera but Filoni's Star Wars has a habit of celebrating irresponsibility in the Heroes while the characters who follow rules are written to be sort of villains

The worst habit Filoni has is to end his stories with ambiguity. Characters leave dramatically to an uncertain future, leaving more questions on what happens next. I get that this is a way to make fans want more, but it's a tired tactic so he can leave things open rather than have a concrete conclusion. Plus, we have no way of knowing when there will be a followup. If there will be a season 2, it might not happen until 2025. They announced Filoni will be directing his movie, but that might not be until 2026. It's a lot of wait time, just as there was a lot of wait time after season 5 of TCW and season 4 of Rebels. Then there's the whole Barriss Offee question I've come to simply accept that Barriss Offee is likely never returning to Star Wars canon (I think Filoni tells us he has big plans for her just to keep us waiting). I saw a story about how Filoni wanted to bring back Ventress in the Resistance animated show but then scrapped it because her popularity would overshadow the main characters. That kind of brings me to the conclusion that I don't need to wait for Barriss to return to any animated show or live stream series. Her popularity would just distract us from other characters Filoni wants to focus on. As much as that saddens me a little, I accept it and will not be pushing any more speculation articles or youtube videos trying to sensationalize her return. We all got excited when there was a mystery over who rescued Grogu and that Illuminerdi article that boasted the casting of Barriss for the Ahsoka show (Another red herring) It kind of deflates us when we realized we were wrong about it. I think we should just celebrate Barriss with art and stories and not fall for the stringed carrot bait anymore. In the end, I can still watch future Star Wars stuff, and I am curious to see what happens to these characters. But the wait will sort of make it all it bit Meh. Overall, I liked the Epic style of the Ahsoka series and the characters but Filoni's bag of tricks are a tired thing for me.