#Vex Lore Shadowkeep

[psalmlab]

Tonight's video is all about the Vex

There are some major key points about the Vex, all the way up to Lightfall and beyond! 👀

💠 Where Are The Vex 💠 Vex History 💠 Crota & The Vex 💠 Post-Final Shape

Don't miss it! 📺 watch here 👇🏾‍

[locrianking]

Lightfall & Aspect

hi destiny tumblr!

it’s me, your local lore geek. as we speak, i am working on a (long!) meta post about the connections between the lightfall campaign & the aspect lorebook. i haven’t really seen people talking about these ties so i wanted to do it myself.

in the time it takes me to write this, i really really encourage anyone confused about lightfall to read aspect! if nothing else, read it so you can rip my theories to shreds when i finish this meta. but seriously i can’t encourage it enough, go check out aspect please

[thefirstknife]

sorry if this is an obvious question. but I've seen lots of people theorising that "The Conductor" is maya. Why are people saying this? I don't really know much of her lore or the stuff surrounding her (veil etc.) so any sort of explanation or lore on maya would be nice.

No problem! Honestly the whole thing with Maya started last year when they did a lot of extra little bits and pieces about her throughout Lightfall. Maya Sundaresh was one of the Ishtar Collective scientists from the Golden Age and heavily involved with various science, a lot of it connected to the Vex.

Probably the most relevant is the Vex simulations of Ishtar scientists; the Vex simulated 227 copies of Maya, her wife Chioma Esi and two others (Dr. Shim and Duane-McNiadh). The group decided to let the copies free into the Vex network to explore and see what happens. We didn't really know anything about this until Season of Undying (Shadowkeep) when the lore book Aspect released which details a lot about what the copies were doing there and then their plans to escape, with the help of Praedyth. We never found out if they made it out.

In Season of the Wish, last season before TFS, there was the exotic mission Starcrossed which ended with a secret room inside a Vex Citadel that appeared out of nowhere in the Black Garden. Inside that room, we found the symbol of the Ishtar Collective. The running theory is that this shows that the copies have finally escaped or there's some other connection to the whole story of the Ishtar team and the Vex shenanigans they've been through. My post about some extra details in regards to the whole Vex stuff during Wish. We initially also speculated about a possibility that there would be Venus stuff in Echoes, as well as possibly Nessus (or even Mercury or Io); turns out it was Nessus!

Anyway, this stuff with Ishtar and the Vex is a pretty direct link to the fact that Maya could have some influence and connections with the Vex. But why Maya specifically? This is where we go to Lightfall stuff and primarily the Veil Logs. In the Veil Logs, Chioma revealed that Maya was affected by the Veil quite a lot and more or less went mad experimenting with it. In her experiments, she constructed the whole thing to work like an "orchestra" with a "conductor." That word is the biggest clue honestly!

It was further also noted by Osiris when he analysed it all that this all seems similar to what the Witness' species did; some sort of a ritual with a "chorus" and a "conductor." This is also interesting because a lot of what's going on this season is showing us the Vex with references to music and specifically a "chorus:" they're called "choral" Vex. My post about these music references (there's been more since writing this). In one of the Veil Logs towards the end, Chioma explained that she one day found Maya dead in the "conductor's chair." Maya has been connecting to the Veil as a conductor for a very long time and did a lot of experiments with it, primarily attempting to "fabricate consciousness." She succeeded in this by creating Lakshmi-2: she used a dead Exo to essentially fuse minds into it and create something new.

One more of the Veil Logs also mentions that someone called "MSund12" was trying to access them in present time. This is Maya's 12th copy from the network. I went into this in the linked post; MSund12 accessed the OXA through the Vex systems at some point. This is interesting because this was brought up again in TFS in one of the Lost Ghosts quest which also name drops Maya Sundaresh directly and confirms that there are interferences from her going on here.

This set of exotics from the season pass with lore tabs also seems to be giving out hints that it's Maya. It requires some assumptions to be made but Maya fits pretty much all of it really nicely. There are also a lot of little curious details in the activity Enigma Protocol. After each section cleared when you get to the chest, there's three Vex confluxes which can be scanned. They reveal "queries," as if someone is using the Vex network to go through information and data on stuff. It's mostly related to very small personal stuff, Golden Age information, the Collapse and current stuff about the City or Lightbearers: as if someone is trying to connect to their personal things and learn about what the world is like now. For example, one of the queries is "port wine" - this was once mentioned by Chioma in one of the Veil Logs; she opened a bottle of port for her date with Maya.

With all of this combined, there's very little room for the Conductor to be anyone other than Maya, who is now able to control the Vex with those collars. We just don't know which Maya. Is it one of her copies? Is it multiple copies combined into something else? Is there anything of the real Maya in there? It would be interesting if it's just copies because then her teasing Saint as being a copy would be a neat reflection of her own insecurities. Either way, we'll have to wait a bit to find out about the details, but there's no doubt that all of this is setup for the reveal that it's Maya.

[billie-black]

Thread of odd connections between Ikora, Elsie and Eris

I was scrolling through concept art when I noticed that, despite not being so in-game, The Stranger's rifle is Branded as a Cassoid weapon. This wouldn't mean much, bungie tends to use decals at random, except-

The curse of osiris variant, The Machina Dei 4, is also branded with a slightly altered version of the Cassoid logo, which I think proves that it has been upgraded with components from the foundry.

But let's put a pin on that and talk about another Cassoid weapon, The Invective shotgun, Ikora's signature weapon. The Invective has an ornament called Iconoclast, a word which here means "Destroyer of images used in religious worship." This nomenclature is very similar to-

The Vex Mythoclast, a weapon which, thanks to its sister weapon, The Worldline Zero (which coincidentally also has a prophecy variant), we know to be made by Elsie Bray. Canonically, we earn the Mythoclast as part of-

the "Not forged in light" quest, which ends with Elsie gifting us the No time to explain. A weapon which eventually ends back up in her hands and she gifts to us again earlier in the timeline as-

The stranger's rifle, which hangs around until it becomes the Machina Dei 4 (later Adhortative). And the prophecy attached to the Machina Dei 4 desribes Eris Morn and the events of Shadowkeep, when Eris discovers stasis and starts using the darkness.

A charnel but effulgent orb.

beacon in a loathsome dark.

Fêted, fetid corpses rise.

a too-long-absent gibbous spark.

Now, it's generally accepted that No time to explain (and all it's variants by proxy) was created at some future point in a distant timeline, this is incorrect. Ghost specifically points out that "parts" of it shouldn't exist, because the rifle itself is a common suros frame.

Going back to The Invective, you're probably more familiar with its legendary sister, The Comedian, and its D2 counterpart, Deadpan Delivery. The Comedian's flavor text reads "A. A ha. A ha ha ha. A ha ha ha ha ha ha ha" In D1 the joke wasn't really clear, but with the addition of a lore tab in D2, the joke has become the vanguard's falling victim to a hive god's deceit. Now, let's take a little trip to The dark future.

In The dark future, Beyond light never happened, Eramis was allowed to grow her armies and master stasis, which led to a massive attack on the city by Cabal remnants, Savathûn, and the glorious House Salvation, all masterminded by Eris Morn, who up to that point was believed to be an ally, but had been corrupted by stasis and the darkness.

Coming back to our timeline, let's look at differences between our case exotics and their variants. Elsie's rifle has undergone many more modifications than Invective. Matter of fact, Invective has barely undergone any changes from its default. It's painted red, AND It has tape wrapped the handle and the grip, just like No time to explain. (I know I'm talking about grip tape right now but please don't go, it gets better, I promise)

It's a weak link, many weapons have grip tape, but I think many of these small details add up and point to The Iconoclast being one of Elsie's gifts. Let's review the similarities between Iconoclast and other gifts from Elsie.

>It's sourced from one of the city foundries and later received Cassoid upgrades (Invective and it's variants are nadir products)

>It has grip tape where the original does not.

>Mythoclast and Iconoclast are very similar terms and could point to a connection.

>It has a perpetual ammo function, like No time to explain and The Mythoclast.

But we should also look at Iconoclast within it's own context. Invective being her weapon, what does it mean for Ikora? She's never been been known to combat or really oppose any sort of religion, at least that I can find. And let's make it clear, the gun is not the Iconoclast. Just like the Mythoclast is not The Mythoclast. The weapons, in this case, are named for the wielder. You kill Atheon and so you become the Mythoclast, the gun is more of symbol. So, what religious figure is Ikora supposed to kill in order to become the Iconoclast?

Well, just this season, the hive have come out with a brand spanking new god, one very close to Ikora. Now I don't think Ikora is going to kill Eris. Eris would need to do something completely heinous for her to even consider that. Like, idk, bombarding the last city with House Salvation and the shadow legion... i. e., what happens in the dark timeline.

Look, I really don't believe Eris is going to turn evil all the sudden, that would be character assasination of the highest magnitude. But from Ikora's point of view? She has a supposed time traveller yelling at her that she's letting everything go sideways.

So my theory is that Elsie took Ikora's Invective from some other failed timeline (possibly the one where they smooch) and gave it to Ikora as the Iconoclast, along with the idea that alternate Ikora ruined everything because she failed to act and put Eris down when she could.

And this is where Deadpan Delivery comes in. You see, Ikora doesn't use invective anymore, and she doesn't use the Comedian. She exclusively wields Deadpan Delivery. Now, I know this was probably just the animators being faithful to her character, seeing how she prefers shotguns-

But the retroactive additions to the Comedian's lore, outside my crazed theories, implies a statement from Ikora. The Comedian's joke is the vanguard falling victim to a hive god's deceit, and in the dark timeline that god, the Savathûn figure, is Eris morn. And so-

By maining Deadpan delivery Ikora is subtextually saying "It's not funny. I'm not laughing. I don't subscribe to the narrative put forward by the comedian or Elsie. I trust Eris". And by rejecting the Comedian she's additionally disavowing it's older sister, The Invective, which is a symbol of the gung ho attitude which defined her in her youth. And wether my Iconoclast theory is correct or not, we can definitively say: Ikora is against what it represents , she is a guardian, and she will make a new fate no matter what.

[orbdotexe]

IIIII dont see any reason not to, so. Timeline I've been using (mostly as a guideline and summaries) for TFE! yippee!! (this is mostly for. non-content box ppl bc yall already had access to this--)

[Black Garden] The Young Wolf begins to hear whispers around Darkness-infected areas after the Black Garden, confides in no one and brushes it off when Ghost asks. The effects begin fading away, pushed out of memory, before the Red War hits and it is amplified until they get their Light back.

[?] Osiris and Drifter meet about the Sundial, where Osiris tells him he should meet the Guardian. [Encounter intro] [Original lore: The Sundial]

[Forsaken] Petra sees The Young Wolf holding the gun after Sundance bursts, Cayde does not get a chance to tell her. He falls into a coma after throwing Petra out of the way of an attack from a Baron, and is presumed dead by Wolf. The Young Wolf is exiled, under the belief that they had attempted to murder Cayde. Before Petra and Wolf race to get to Uldren, Ghost receives and ignores a message from Ikora, asking for their side of the story. Later, Wolf gets to Uldren first, and kills the Prince.

[?] Drifter has an impromptu meeting with Shin, where, similarly to Osiris, he is told to meet with Wolf—For different reasons. [Do They Know?]

[?] Crow wakes up, after the Dreaming City’s curse had set in. [Bury Me Shallow, chp1]

[during/ pre-Season of The Drifter/Joker’s Wild] The Drifter seeks out the Young Wolf under Osiris's (and Shin’s) recommendation and sets up an exchange of favors. [Questionably Fortunate Encounter]

[Shadowkeep] 

[Beyond Light] The Exo Stranger takes up teaching the Young Wolf how to control Stasis, in an attempt to help them tame the hallucinations from the Black Garden. Elsie found out because she began keeping a closer eye on them after a vague warning from Drifter about keeping an eye on them.  Later, Wolf takes up hunting Eramis. 

[Pre-Defeat of Eramis, Post-Wolf getting Stasis] Cayde finally wakes from his coma.  Shiro acts as a bodyguard, making sure Cayde doesn’t do anything to get himself into trouble for a few weeks.

[Hunt] Starts after Wolf has already taken out the first of Eramis’ Lieutenants. Crow multitasks hunting the Wrathborn and prying for information on what happened to Wolf and why they killed Uldren from Spider back in the Shore. Wolf, unknown to him, stalks Crow to find out more about their replacement, between receiving more information on Eramis’ forces. Shiro assists Crow's Wrathborn hunts while attempting to track the Young Wolf after hearing word of sightings of them, unable to pin down their purpose for switching between Europa and the Shore.

[Chosen] Wolf crashes some Rites of Proving, proceeds as usual (?)

[Splicer] The Young Wolf, learning of Lakshmi's plan to invite the Vex inside the City with the intent of getting rid of House Light, sneaks into the City and publicly executes her - both to stop her before it's too late, and to take the heat off of the Eliksni's backs. [Bury Me Shallow, chp2]

[Lost] Now desperate for information on Wolf, and determined to find out what happened, Crow and Cayde attempt to consult Savathun in-between saving Mara's Techuens.

[post-reclaiming Uldren’s memories] Cayde and Crow, under Mara's request, try to find the Young Wolf. Cayde, unable to leave, is stuck playing intel. Crow, deep in abandoned ruins that were already difficult to get through, finds them and is warned against trusting the Vanguard not to turn on him. [One Mirror, Two Reflections, chp1: Warning A Replacement]

[Witch Queen] 

[Risen] 

[Haunted] Wolf’s Nightmare is the Speaker, who taunts them for letting the Vanguard take their chance at life and for being too weak to stop it. Crow is the only support they have through it (?), and without the connection through the Harvester. The Nightmare of Safiyah taunts Zavala with failing both Hakim and Wolf, pointing out he’s fucked over both of his children now.  Cayde’s Nightmare is Sundance, who taunts him about failing Andal, her, and Wolf.  Calus is not repelled (?), but the Witness still drags his consciousness from the Leviathan for Lightfall.

[?] A fireteam catches wind of the Young Wolf’s whereabouts potentially being on the Leviathan, and are assigned to check out the validity of the report. [Impromptu Arsenal Check]

[?] Cayde and Wolf see each other in person again for the first time since the prison. [A Lot of Firsts]

[?] The (Secondary) Hunter Trio try to make up some patrols they fell behind on, and instead get some Horror Of The Unknown (or, more accurately—Rancher does.) [A Further Look Into Hunter Gossip]

[Lightfall] (Crow and Wolf train together under Osiris in using Strand.)

[?] Crow, Saint, and Osiris wear down Zavala, trying to advise him to unexile Wolf, as the Coalition is spread too thin. Empress Caiatl, despite having heard much of the story from Saladin and Zavala’s points of view, makes the final nail in the coffin in a private meeting.  If she can see past Calus and his crimes and turn to protect her people; if Saint can see past the Fallen to protect the Eliksni and the City; if Zavala can see past Ghaul and trust her with his own— Then he can see past the Prison and take the risk. He talks Ikora into allowing him to unexile the Young Wolf.

[?] After some time, Crow finally convinces Wolf to take the opportunity to see the City again, and they are brought out of exile. Later, after some adjustment, Crow takes them out to see how things have changed, and how other things haven't. [A Day In Town] (unfinished, unposted)

[?] Before leaving to follow the Witness into the Traveler, the Guardian takes Crow exploring to say goodbye, if only for now. [Intermission: STORMJOYS] (unfinished, unposted)

[Final Shape] Plight of The Honeybee.

[flowers-of-io]

Oh man I was asleep and I wake up to this 😂 *rolls up sleeves* so this is just the most basic recap of the biggest plot points, but if you want to pick up a single DLC that is a self contained, great story, then I'm seconding @under-the-arch and thoroughly recommending Witch Queen. You don't have to know a lot of the new lore (except like, one specific plot thread) to understand it, and it's a brilliant narrative.

SHADOWKEEP

Savathûn is secretly in control of the Hidden Swarm on the Moon

A pyramid, relic of the Collapse, found under the lunar surface, and the Hive draw some power from it

The pyramid also causes Nightmares to appear

We enter the pyramid and find a Darkness relic that transmits messages to us and tells us to go to the Black Garden

The Vex Sol Divisive are now on the Moon

2019-20 seasons

Saint-14 comes back

The Cabal try to blow up our Sun with the Almighty (the huge ship from the Red War) but Rasputin shoots it down

A fleet of pyramids appear, landing on Io, Mars, Titan and Mercury -- the Darkness arrives in Sol and disables Rasputin

A Tree of Silver Wings grows on Io, Savathûn tries to prevent the Darkness from communicating with us but we fight her

Asher Mir enters the Pyramidion and we can't contact him, Vance enters the Infinite Forest, Sloane chooses to stay, Ana evacuates to the City

The Traveler repairs itself, the Darkness eats the four assailed planets and moons

BEYOND LIGHT

An Eliksni House worshipping Darkness and wielding its powers found on Europa, Variks calls us there to help

Exo Stranger reappears and teaches us to wield the Darkness along with Eris and Drifter so we could defeat Eramis, Kell of Darkness

Eramis turns into a popsicle when we fight her (literally)

Deep Stone Crypt found

Lots of great Exos and Clovis Bray lore

2021 seasons

Savathûn is deemed a heretic by the Hive and disappears completely, even her court can't find her

Osiris loses his Ghost

Uldren Sov found resurrected as a Guardian and going by the name Crow, working for the Spider and later for the Vanguard

Xivu Arath's forces show up in Sol

Savathûn is Big Sad but keeps cool about it

What's left of the Cabal Empire rolls into Sol feeing from Torobatl which was destroyed by Xivu, we're at a brief war but ultimately strike a truce

Vex attack the Last City, we find it is Savathûn commanding them through Quria

Mithrax's House of Light relocates to the City and Mithrax helps us with the Vex problem; we kill Quria

Mara Sov returns

Turns out Savathûn has been impersonating Osiris this whole time since he lost his Ghost and hanging out with us in the City

Savathûn wants to get rid of her worm and Mara Sov helps her with it

Crow finds out about his past

We deworm Savathûn but she escapes

THE WITCH QUEEN

Mars reappears but is weird

Savathûn's Hive have the Light now

(Spoilers for the expansion follow)

Turns out Hive Ghosts are normal Ghosts but edgy

Sav was resurrected by one after she died post-deworming and asked the Traveler to save her (a BEAUTIFUL cutscene)

She tries to seal the Traveler away in her throne world to protect it from the Darkness but we stop her

We find out about the Voice in the Darkness going by the name "the Witness" and we kill its disciple Rhulk

Turns out Savathûn saved our asses during the Collapse

2022 seasons

Lord Saladin is on the Cabal War Council now (long story)

The Leviathan reappears oozing with Nightmares, Calus wants to become a disciple of the Witness

Eramis thaws out and goes on a rampage stealing body parts of someone called "Nezarec" and we steal them back

Rasputin is put into an Exo frame

Xivu Arath's forces join with Eramis', Eramis attacks the Traveler but Rasputin sacrifices to stop her

Traveler is now in Earth's orbit

LIGHTFALL

The Witness arrives and attacks Earth

The Traveler has a laser now

We go to Neptune to find and secute "the Veil", something Savathûn hid there that the Witness needs

There's a cyberpunk-vaporwave style secret colony on Neptune that was founded by Ishtar scientists

Calus is a full-on disciple now

We learn new Darkness powers

The Witness either kills or disables the Traveler, creates a portal within it, and enters it

Turns out Nezarec is also a disciple and we kill him (unsurprisingly)

Hall of Heroes audiologs // Calcified Fragment: Curiosity

what could have been

[winnowerdidnothingwrong]

[blackwaxidol]

so i'm thinking about the Pyramid a little, and the end cutscene. and then i'm thinking back on that adventure on Nessus where your Ghost accesses the Vex Network to glean information. and how cordial the Vex were to your Ghost. that they hoped that they answered all the Ghost's queries, and ominously told him to "return home".

[flowers-of-io]

Tbf I think the Black Garden and overall Vex storyline runs a bit parallel to the general plot, and they kinda braid in some places (like VoG, Black Garden shenanigans in D1, half of Beyond Light) but mostly run side by side in the same direction. I don't know how to explain what I have in mind but I feel it was more to show what the Vex/Darkness/Sol Divisive are up to in the background than to influence the current events directly. VoG seems to be the same, too. The Vex are always doing their own thing but their story is not tied to ours so closely as for example the Hive's, yet in the end we're all moving towards the same endgame (which for them is the final shape, and for us is not letting that come to pass).

Generally, I like to think GoS was just the Darkness/the Darkness through Sol Divisive playing with us. And we didn't even *win* anything. We came there looking for answers and found next to none, and did not really bring any significant change to the Vex/Sol Divisive in general. I really feel like it was the Winnower who ended up the winner in that particular strife.

Is no one else bothered that Garden of Salvation is the one Destiny raid that has no discernible purpose or story and it’s not even clear what exactly happened (if somebody knows what happened please tell me. I’ve played it like 12 times and never understood what the point is, or what the stakes were).

[planet4546b]

ok i finished beyond light and wanna put some thoughts here about it while its on the mind. tldr destiny is simultaneously the stupidest game in the world and has moments that are really, really good

eramis is a hugely compelling character with a solid motivation, interesting backstory, and relates to the long running lore weve had about eliksni in absolutely FASCINATING ways. shes instantly one of my fave characters im incredibly compelled by her. they also say that she cant control the darkness because shes ‘too angry’ (?? what.)

given what we know about the darkness bc of 1. votd and 2. ikoras shredded notes, eramis being probably manipulated by the darkness (which. obviously so is the yw in this expansion) and 2. losing control of it explicitly because she couldnt move on from what happened to riis, eramis’ corruption is MUCH more compelling and complex. but in game theyre just like. oh she cant control it because shes evil. destiny. man come on

using darkness is a super fun way to tie new gameplay mechanics to plot, and make a much more concrete parallel between what the light and darkness can do (both being simplified as sources of power is fun) but they truly had some star wars level bullshit about how you control it. oh you can use it safely if its for a noble cause (eramis’ cause was noble). oh you can use it safely if youre strong enough (what???) oh you can use it safely if youre like a good enough person. its all vauge and kinda stupid.

AGAIN, in light of new lore, the idea that light and darkness can in fact be balanced and thats not a bad thing is an idea that works and is compelling (its not the same bullshit as ppl who talk about like ‘grey jedi’ like it does actually make sense). they just give the stupidest answers possible about how that works

actually i am really glad the exo stranger is here. i love her and im glad theyre in some way tying things back to d1 but it did also it still doesnt make sense. tbf none of the plot of this game ever does but whatever. if the black garden ties into shadowkeep (idk how i just know it does) shouldnt. they have put her there?? or made the vex more important here??? baffling. i am not immune to no time to explain though :(

exo stranger eris and drifter funniest group in the WORLD. i know they just grabbed the three characters that were loosely associated w darkness and gave very little info on how they teamed up or like. Why but good god if it isnt hilarious

destiny once again suffers from being an fps :/ girl you made a whole expansion that gives more information on the eliksni, shows them sympathetically in a lot of ways, and truly starts to develop them (more than they already were, which imho was a fair amount) and theyre STILL solely used as canon fodder. wheres that post about making faceless enemies and trying to give them a face lol bc i think of it all the time in this game

yes we did ALSO help save eliksni and maybe i would have felt different about this if i had been playing when this season had come out and had intereacted in any meaningful way with the eliksni in helm/in their city district but also. you know

once again i am saying that the vex are simultaneously the biggest actual existential threat in destiny and also the only enemy group that can truly actually be treated as faceless with no consequences, bc as far as we know they dont have a sense of self in the way we understand, which EVERY OTHER ENEMY GROUP (hive included!!!!) does. but what can you do.

i really like how little you see of the pyramid. also once again destiny environment design absolutely rules. braytech facilities riis-reborn and vex constructions all look so architechturally distinct, unique, interesting, and do a good job of storytelling from a visual perspective. europa is also absolutely GORGEOUS

i am for REALLLLLL worried about ghost. between darkness possessing him, the sheer amount that yw using darkness seems to legitimately terrify him, and also how he acts in wq im Concerned. last weeks strike being arms dealer and seeing how differently he acts in that era as compared to now is legit heartbreaking. also the sheer number of times is started quoting thin line out loud to myself directly after his lines about how scared he was of yw using darkness is UNREAL

i do genuinely think that this game is doing a good job of tying the specific ways that darkness is portrayed and comes up with the themes and lore about what it represents (mostly based on the shredded notes my beloved) and making that argument for what darkness is compelling. esp excited to see how thats executed in shadowkeep bc i think thats such a strong start for its introduction. like i truly can see how its connected and thats very fun

whole expansion being split between development for eliksni and exos (w bonus development for a d1 character) is so up my alley its unreal. enjoyed it overall but also good god destiny is a video game sometimes isnt it

[magicicapra]

hrrng. thinking about vex stuff again. it's so kickass that the second perk on mythoclast is called "temporal unlimiter." imago loop's flavor text is kickass. the fact that regular found verdict's flavor text is "witness." but timelost found verdict's flavor text is "guilty." is kickass. the fact that the lore book from season 8 about praedyth and the copies of the ishtar team is called "aspect" but all the entries are grammatical moods instead is kickass. forge star? kickass. eden from the shadowkeep soundtrack? kickass. system collapse (high action)? kickass. "Calibrate reality. Seek inevitability. Embody divinity."? kickass. pujari's vision? kickass. whatever's going on when someone describes the tree of silver wings? kickass. the fact that the black garden grows "into tomorrow and yesterday?" kick-fucking-ass.

[thefirstknife]

It's Tuesday! Veil Log time!

Chioma: The Veil is too great a power for humanity to wield responsibly. All that's left is to close down the facility. Neomuna will go on. Humanity will persist on the back of our unspeakable work. But I won't pass that guilt on to humanity's future. My hands can be bloodied. Let the children have innocence. And in my dissolution, I will find peace. Osiris: I don't know if I agree with Chioma's choice to hide the sins of the past. But... I also do not know what I would do in her place. Nimbus: Quinn says there's a data signature on this file, like something else was crawling the network. A... Vex signature? What's... MSund12? Osiris: There's one log left to decrypt. Perhaps we'll find out.

Alright.

So, my thinking here is that the reappearance of MSund12 and the Vex signature is once again strengthening the whole idea of how various Vex technologies are incredibly close, in some way, to the Veil being capable of moving consciousness. MSund12 is Maya Sundaresh, presumably her 12th iteration in the Vex Network: Maya and other Ishtar scientists were simulated 227 times by the Vex. Upon discovery that they've been simulated by the Vex, the scientists allowed the simulated copies to go on in the network, as a part of an experiment and they continued living and exploring the network independently. A really good lore book that details some of their exploration as well as them meeting Praedyth is in the lore book from Shadowkeep, Aspect. Highly recommended.

MSund12 in this specific format was first mentioned in the Insight Terminus strike, at the end of the strike, as part of one of the two dialogues. You know the one.

There’s an almost unreadable data artifact here, labelled “OXA.” It’s heavily corrupted, but I’m able to make out “MSund12” from the access log. What is “OXA,” and who was “MSund12”?

I summarised everything about the OXA in the first link I added up there in the post. Somehow, one of Maya's Vex simulation copies at some point accessed the OXA and this was important to tell us in this dialogue, but was never expanded upon. This was also the only time OXA was ever mentioned in the game dialogue. All other mentions (the few of them) are in the written lore, and the majority is Collector's Edition and weblore stuff.

And now this same copy is running an interference on this archive. For what purpose? Is it trying to talk to us? Is there something this copy needs to tell us? This is also making me think that there's a possibility that MSund12 also had something to do with the Occlusion and/or Soteria. Stuff about the Occlusion is from the Winterbite quest, painstaikingly compiled in this big post here.

What are they going to tell us next week? Clearly something to clear up stuff about MSund12, possibly finally following up on the dialogue from the Insight Terminus as well. Perhaps giving us some sort of a conclusion. But if there's something to be said about MSund12, I am very excited for the possibility, however small, that this will also tell us something about the OXA and possibly validate the idea that these predictive devices capable of displacing your mind through time are built on the principles of the Veil's power. It would tie the OXA and MSund12 and Maya and her Future War Cult and the Device in a loop around the Veil, possibly explain why Maya was so fiercely influenced by the Veil, how she saw her own voice telling her its name and how it ultimately corrupted her; she is nothing if not a veteran of mind-forking, consciousness displacing and Vex simulations.

I can't come up with anything else for why they would mention MSund12, outside of it just being a funny reference. However, I simply do not think this is just a funny reference; next week is the culmination of this huge lore drop and I just don't think that they mentioned this without it being incredibly important. Also, something interfered with the log, something Vex, so it's not just a random reference. Something tangible happened here. And Chioma basically concluded her findings and decisions in this one so what's the next one? Who will speak to us? An emergency transmission from Chioma? Or someone else?

Don't forget as well that next week's log is the final log of this season, but it has been confirmed that there will be two more. One at the start of next season, and one at the start of the final season. Something extra that will be discovered later. I need to be teleported into the future right now.

[mozindale]

So with VoG coming to Destiny 2, there's one thing I'm wondering...will Praedyth be coming back?

Spoilers for the Destiny 1 mission, Paradox, and the Destiny 2 lore book, Aspect, below!

Back in Destiny 1 we had the mission Paradox. We're it had us go back into the Vault Of Glass because of a transmission we received. Ikora works with us as assistance to discover where the transmission is coming from and who is speaking.

Eventually, we find out it is Praedyth who is broadcasting the transmission.

Now, there are actually two endings to this mission. A version for normal mode and a version for hard mode.

In the normal mode version, at the end of the mission we find a skeleton. Ghost then scans them, stating that the bones have traces of Light and are centuries old. However, it is never specifically stated that these are Praedyth's bones, only assumed they are. Though, they probably are for the sake of this version of the mission ending.

In the hard mode version, the Paradox mission will have you go to a different location instead of where the normal version takes you, where the mission's quest step will be labeled as Praedyth's Gift. Upon opening the chest, that you find at the location, you will find Praedyth's Ghost, to which you will have to bring it to Lakshmi-2, The Future War Cult leader. By this point we learn that Praedyth still is alive, or at least existing, somewhere across different time streams.

Now, over in Destiny 2, we have the Aspect lore book, which we earn during Shadowkeep. The Aspect lore is actually about Praedyth and the Ishtar Collective and their attempt to escape the Garden. During this time in the Garden, which has been years by this point after the initial incident in the Vault, Praedyth has been completely alone. His Ghost, being the one we found, long dead. He stripped his armor and two of his guns for materials.

He eventually gets into contact with one group of the many copies of the Ishtar Collective scientists, Shim, Sundaresh, Esi, and Duance-McNiadh. They begin working on a plan to escape, asking Praedyth what materials he has, so they can begin building a strong enough transistor to push a message out past the Vex systems and hopefully finding an exit at the same time.

During this conversation, one of the scientists make a comment about Praedyth, stating that Praedyth exists physically but the location he is in doesn't and that may work to their advantage.

The last entry of the lore book they are successful in building the transistor and waiting for the Garden door to open. They have a very slim chance but a chance at freedom never the less. From there, the book ends. So from there, we can assume Praedyth is alive and possibly even see Praedyth and the Ishtar Collective free from the Vault.

Another thing, I want to point out is what Praedyth sees during his time in the Garden. While he's there, he sees various imagines from outside the Vault from various locations.

He's seen the Traveler and The Last City. He's seen "a small figure, that changes everytime, standing in front of a shard of the Traveler that is laying bell-up"....now, doesn't that sound familiar? He's seen himself on Mars, where he's bathed in sunlight, but feels no warmth. He's seen Mercury and the closeness of the Sun. He's "seen" Mercury, what's last of it. Turning around and seeing no other planets. Just debris, crumbs, and darkness of what remains. The description similar to how Mars, or what remains of Mars, looks like around the Glykon.

Praedyth has acknowledge these images but doesn't know which are real and not, and if they are real, he doesn't know if they are from our timeline. Which leads me to believe that he has seen images from our timeline, that he may have seen us, seen what The Last City looks like, seen the Darkness take several planets.

I guess this all comes down to me wanting Praedyth and the Collective to come back. With everything that has happened recently with the Clovis AI, Bray family, Banshee, DSC, Europa, Vex, Clovis' resentment of the Ishtar Collective, the Vex using the image of Sundaresh to cause the death of Clovis by eviscerating him and now the return of VoG, it just makes sense to me for them to tie up or tie in this part of the story, ya'know?

I don't know. What do you all think?

[arcenergy]

i think mustard went back into the black garden by himself to see if the hallucinations he saw from the darkness at the end of shadowkeep had any merit but the thing is that he never really made it clear to his ghost about what he had exactly saw because (bare with me here as i give canon the peoples elbow) i think mustard barely dragged himself out of the pyramids instead of the lore-friendly teleporting system we got at shadowkeep as his ghost was unresponsive for an amount of time (not like days upon weeks but more like a good 4-6 hours but he doesnt really know that bc he kicked the bucket regardless after the trauma ghosts went and beat him senseless while calling him rude names in xbox live chat) 

after getting so fucked up by the darkness in the pyramids and overall it just wasnt fun and not something musty really wants to talk about or relive because he thought that may have just been his final death right then and there if his ghost didnt come back to him but he also just has this innate desire to figure out the who what when where and why as to what happened in the pyramids and he thinks? hopes? that the black garden has some answers bc it’s his only true lead

i dont actually know what he finds in the black garden yet tho if anytthing at all (other than probably an ass whooping from the vex) 

[flowers-of-io]

So my boyfriend pointed out how similar Helm of Righteousness looks to Battlecage of Kabr, and joked whether this is just a popular helmet type or if Kabr had been in the Black Garden, and how the latter is most probably just wishful thinking

And I was like, WELL ACKSHUALLY--

So. These two helmets look so alike it’s unsettling. And we could argue these are just reused assets or the similarity comes from both being ‘vex aesthetics’ and of course especially the latter claim is valid. But but but, Kabr most probably HAD BEEN in the Black Garden at some point.

He is he is not he is walking in the Garden. He is talking silent singing.

^K^KV^V^V^V^V

(Watch your six don't worry about me grow grow grow)

He holsters his gun to gesture he holsters his gun to drink his gun is rusted into its holster and he will never pull it out again.

(How bad can it be how bad can it be how can we grow grow grow)

A Titan is a Wall a Shield a Cup filling itself to overflowing. The container changes the shape of its contents but the contents change the nature of the container and the nature is eternity.

(Who knows what's listening it's listening it's saying grow grow grow)

There is a shape that is his mind and the shape is protect the shape is sacrifice the shape is (grow)

^V^V^V^V^V

He was named too well he is his own grave and the cut on his left hand will never heal.

- Gnomic (Aspect)

I almost know this entry by heart by now, it’s my favourite out of the entire book and I still haven’t cracked it fully yet. And when we’re here, shoutout to Focused Fire Chat for pulling me into this and providing with most of the ideas first. I could talk about it A LOT but FFC has an amazing two-part episode on Aspect so I’ll just link to it - [1] [2].

But what I want to stress is how this entry is very obviously about Kabr. “A Titan is a Wall a Shield a Cup filling itself to overflowing” points to how he drank radiolaria and created the Aegis (possibly did one in order to do the other), and he was also of course a Titan. “There is a shape that is his mind and the shape is protect the shape is sacrifice the shape is (grow)” sounds very much like the Vex growing into him after he’d done that. “He was named too well he is his own grave and the cut on his left hand will never heal.” is very blatant: Kabr means grave in Arabic, and I’ve touched on the cut-on-his-left-hand think here  already.

Why he is/is not/is walking in the Garden? I have theories (because of course I do), some of them I’ll touch on in Come in Time from an in-universe perspective, but as far as meta goes... The Garden has felt like something separate from the Vex Network because of the animosity other Vex feel towards the Sol Divisive--and we know Kabr fell prey to the “other Vex”, namely the Vault of Glass, Venusian ones. But this entry proves there is at least *some* connection between the Garden and the Vault, OR--and here comes the theory I want to explore in the fic--that the Garden is a whole other thing entirely.

The motto of Aspect is “what has happened before is, somewhere, still always happening; what will happen is happening now”. And y’know, I was thinking--what if we’d take that literally? What if the Garden is a vast confluence of all time, of everything that has ever happened and is happening and will happen? What if it’s all, simultaneously, happening in it, somewhere? That could explain why Kabr was both there and in the Vault. Mark of the Undying Mind says “The Black Garden grows in both directions.”--and the connection between this piece of lore and Aspect is very much evident, being the Undying Mind itself. I still haven’t cracked it entirely, but there is something here.

I think I need to write a longer thing about the Black Garden as a whole at some point, but I’m very tentative about its relationship to the, be it, primordial garden from Unveiling--either Eris contradicts everything I’ve thought about it, or we have THREE instances of a Tree of Silver Wings growing in different places.

Or I may be wrong and the Black Garden is ““the”” garden and the Vex actually DID originate in the Black Garden and everything gets so much more confusing from there.

[cyborg-squid]

really frustrated with destiny 2 right now

(copy pasted from discord rant)

with Destiny 2, it just feels SO user-unfriendly, at least with the spot it's in right now, esacerbated even further with me having been an old player instead of a New Light. It feels like so much of my old stuff, both gear and progress, has been made obsolete and that the best way to get ahead is to buy the Season Pass... Which I caved and did, it's honestly not that expensive and I got the $1 Game Pass deal a week or so ago, so it was just like $11 for a month of time to see if I wanna get back into D2, not a bad deal and far from my worst vidya expenditures. But the season pass has confused me even more, both with content and story*. The way everything has been monetized with the game now feels so dogshit. Like yeah, the "base" game is free but I bought it on release day and have long since beat it. The Forsaken expac is $25 (though I already own it), the Shadowkeep expac is $25, and the Beyond Light expac is $40, if I want to get any of them to own outside of Game Pass... which I'd probably need to buy anyway, cause you need Xbox Live in order to play the game! Oh, and the upcoming expansion is $40/$80/$100 depending on what flavor/bundle you want to get. FF14's expacs can be expensive but at least you just need to buy the most recent one in order to get all the previous ones. On top of the fucking expac prices and the season pass and the subscription prices, it also still has it's fucking microtransaction store. Great. 

There's this whole timeline section in the menus, but I can't actually go and watch (assuming they had cutscenes) any non-expac stories, which is so fucking dumb because it seems like some pretty major stuff has happened that I've missed?! I did the mission that unlocks the most new season pass content, and there were so many characters who weren't around before referencing events I didn't know about, and there's like no way for me to go back and see/watch them. 

Literally feels like if I had missed a couple seasons of a TV show and jumped back in on the penultimate season, excepts none of the season I missed are available to watch?!

I want to re-like Destiny 2 so badly, but it just feels so user unfriendly, and is even more time demanding than it was before, which is why I had stopped. Oh, and money demanding too, of course.

I love the lore books and shit, but none of them are conveying to me 'recent events'.

Saint-14 is back?! The Crow is part of the Vanguard now?! (I saw him revived at the end of Forsaken, but that was the last I saw of him) Mara is back too?! (I mean. we saw it coming and it was prophesied or some shit. But she wasn't here last time I played and they haven't shown me why). Lakshmi-2 staged a coup with Vex help?! There are Eliksni in the City now?! TITAN AND IO ARE JUST FUCKING GONE?! THE BLACK FLEET IS ALREADY HERE?! 

All of these events I would be fine with if I actually got to see/participate/play in them, instead of just being told that they happened, or left to guess.