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apoloadonisandnarcissus · 21 days ago

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Of Lust and Sex on Tolkien lore: Sauron x Galadriel in “Rings of Power”

Many fellow fans have complaint there’s a trend among the Tolkien fandom to de-sexualize Galadriel, but folks, this is not exclusive to her character. This is, actually, an on-going theme on how many see Tolkien’s world and work, in general, and it runs deeps.

There’s this weird headcanon that, just because Tolkien was catholic and a “gentleman”, the world he built is somehow devoid of sexuality or sexual matters, and asexual in itself. Nothing wrong with that, except we have countless examples of “sexual stuff” happening in the legendarium, from characters lusting after each other, to actual sexual assault. Just because Tolkien didn’t write explicit sex scenes (let’s say like George R.R. Martin, who devoted himself to try subvert Tolkien) doesn’t mean is not there. Not everything needs to be “in your face” meaning explicit.

Firstly, Tolkien cared enough about sexuality to write several essays on the matter, namely about the Eldar sex culture and customs. It’s clear that the Elves try to be the “perfect Catholics” on his lore, and this reflects on their views of sex = marriage, premarital sex is frowned upon, repression of sexual desire, adultery is unthinkable, and divorce is forbidden. The Eldar sex culture is purity culture in a nutshell. And it reflects Tolkien’s own views on the subject:

Later in life when sex cools down, it may be possible. It may happen between saints. To ordinary folk it can only rarely occur [...] Faithfulness in Christian marriage entails that: great mortification. For a Christian man there is no escape. Marriage may help to sanctify & direct to its proper object his sexual desires; its grace may help him in the struggle; but the struggle remains. It will not satisfy him – as hunger may be kept off by regular meals [...] No man, however truly he loved his betrothed and bride as a young man, has lived faithful to her as a wife in mind and body without deliberate conscious exercise of the will, without self-denial. [...] Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament [Marriage].... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves upon earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires. Tolkien Letter 43

In Tolkien lore, there’s a strong connection between sex and morality. This is clear on the most iconic romances on his legendarium: Beren and Lúthien, Aragorn and Arwen, etc., which follow the medieval tradition of Chivalric romance: adventures of knights, courtly love, codes of honor and chivalry, trials and tribulations in the pursuit of love and glory.

“Courly love”, in the European tradition, is a highly idealized portrayal of human romantic relationships, that emerged in the medieval courts of the continent. Is a form of ritualized love between a knight (Beren/Aragorn) and his lady (Lúthien/Arwen), characterized by restrain, discretion and devotion. Tolkien himself talks about this, as well:

It idealizes ‘love’ - and as far as it goes can be very good, since it takes in far more than physical pleasure, and enjoins if not purity, at least fidelity, and so self-denial, 'service’, courtesy, honor, and courage. Its weakness is, of course, that it began as an artificial courtly game, a way of enjoying love for its own sake without reference to (and indeed contrary to) matrimony.

It’s clear Tolkien sees the lustful side of relationships as something sinful, but does this equal “evil”? No, because his characters (including the Elves) and the legendarium are complex, and this is not a pure Good vs. Pure Evil world, as Tolkien says himself:

Some reviewers have called the whole thing simple-minded, just a plain fight between Good and Evil, with all the good just good, and the bad just bad. Pardonable, perhaps (though at least Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry, and with only a fragment to read, and, of course, without the earlier written but unpublished Elvish histories. But the Elves are not wholly good or in the right. Tolkien Letter 154

For Tolkien, is more about being on the “right side of History” (let’s put it this way) than being an immaculate hero. His characters are complexed and nuanced:

There are also conflicts about important things or ideas. In such cases I am more impressed by the extreme importance of being on the right side, than I am disturbed by the revelation of the jungle of confused motives, private purposes, and individual actions (noble or base) in which the right and the wrong in actual human conflicts are commonly involved. If the conflict really is about things properly called right and wrong, or good and evil, then the rightness or goodness of one side is not proved or established by the claims of either side; it must depend on values and beliefs above and independent of the particular conflict. A judge must assign right and wrong according to principles which he holds valid in all cases. That being so, the right will remain an inalienable possession of the right side and Justify its cause throughout. (I speak of causes, not of individuals. Of course to a judge whose moral ideas have a religious or philosophical basis, or indeed to anyone not blinded by partisan fanaticism, the rightness of the cause will not justify the actions of its supporters, as individuals, that are morally wicked. But though 'propaganda' may seize on them as proofs that their cause was not in fact 'right', that is not valid. The aggressors are themselves primarily to blame for the evil deeds that proceed from their original violation of justice and the passions that their own wickedness must naturally (by their standards) have been expected to arouse. They at any rate have no right to demand that their victims when assaulted should not demand an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth.) Similarly, good actions by those on the wrong side will not justify their cause. There may be deeds on the wrong side of heroic courage, or some of a higher moral level: deeds of mercy and forbearance. A judge may accord them honour and rejoice to see how some men can rise above the hate and anger of a conflict; even as he may deplore the evil deeds on the right side and be grieved to see how hatred once provoked can drag them down. But this will not alter his judgement as to which side was in the right, nor his assignment of the primary blame for all the evil that followed to the other side. In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. Letter 183

This is why, in "Rings of Power", Sauron can be in love with Galadriel and still be the villain he is. Tolkien doesn’t deal in absolutes, and Sauron is not pure evil, either.

And if people can’t wrap their head around nuanced and complex ideas, it’s not Tolkien's fault, really. This concept that “evil can love” (and it doesn’t make it any less evil) is absolutely fascinating to me, because I wholesome agree with this. Folks have this idealized notion of love (even Tolkien himself talks about this), like it’s only valid if it’s Beren and Lúthien. When it’s not. “Lord of the Rings” is meant to reflect our “fallen” world; and, in our world, tyrants and dictators can love, and have families, and still be genocidal monsters. Their ability to feel romantic love has no direct connection in how they treat their subjects. This is why Tolkien says that “good actions” on the wrong side don’t excuse it nor make it any less evil.

This is not “Harry Potter”, and Sauron is not “Voldemort” that can’t never “know love”. Tolkien was a college professor at Oxford, a renounced linguistic, the father of the modern fantasy genre, and a classic of World literature, he would never write just a basic concept.

This leads me to the idea that “Elves are not wholly good”, and that, they too, can be sinful, and that doesn’t make them “evil” (= on the wrong side). We see this with Galadriel in Tolkien legendarium; not only she commits the sin of pride, and greed, but also lust.

In "Unfinished Tales", Tolkien tells us: Celeborn was the lover of Galadriel, who she later wedded. In Letter 43, Tolkien defines what he means by “a lover” (in general): “engaging and blending all his affections and powers of mind and body in a complex emotion powerfully coloured and energized by sex”.

So, it’s safe to assume that Galadriel was having sex with Celeborn before they were even married (premarital sex). Probably that’s why he had no quarrels with the wild John Boorman script of her and Frodo f*cking in the middle of the woods.

Galadriel doesn’t care about the Eldar sex customs, because, of course, she doesn’t, she's above that, being Noldor royalty and her own authority. Which makes sense with her “repentant sinner” character arc in the legendarium, actually.

Because, as Tolkien, told us: “in The Lord of the Rings the conflict is not basically about 'freedom', though that is naturally involved. It is about God, and His sole right to divine honour” (Letter 183). And “sin” is considered a transgression against divine law (aka God); an offense against religious and moral laws.

Tolkien was religious, but he wasn’t a Catholic priest, and he was well aware that women have sexual desire, and some are, indeed, promiscuous and have no problems acting on it: “You may meet in life (as in literature) women who are flighty, or even plain wanton — I don't refer to mere flirtatiousness, the sparring practice for the real combat, but to women who are too silly to take even love seriously, or are actually so depraved as to enjoy 'conquests', or even enjoy the giving of pain – but these are abnormalities, even though false teaching, bad upbringing, and corrupt fashions may encourage them” (Letter 43). Pardon the language, but Tolkien was, after all, a man of his time.

The “Higher Beings” Nonsense

This is one of the occasions I completely disagree with Charlie Vickers when he calls Sauron a “higher being”. He probably means it in sense he’s a Maia, a demigod or an angel in Tolkien lore, but his use of words can cause some confusion. Sauron is, in no way, shape of form, an “higher being” (in the Christain sense): he’s a literal demon, a satanist, a follower and a servant of Satan himself, in Tolkien legendarium. Demons exist in the lowest frequencies of existence in Christian theology.

Tolkien makes this very clear on his letters: Melkor/Morgoth is Lucifer/Satan on his myth, he straight-up calls him “diabolus” (Letter 153). It should be obvious enough on his entire character: he’s the one who corrupts God’s creation and is the symbolic archangel/Valar (like Lucifer was). Him being dragged in chains and imprisoned until the end of time also parallels a biblical event.

Sauron is the chief satanist demon in the lore, the #1 servant and follower of Morgoth/Satan: Satanic rebellion and evil of Morgoth and his satellite Sauron; in which Evil is largely incarnate, and in which physical resistance to it is a major act of loyalty to God (Letter 156).

And here, too, there’s a weird attempt of de-sexualizing these characters (mostly Sauron) in the Tolkien fandom. Despite the fact almost everyone recognizes the Christian inspiration here, and the Devil being seen as the creator of all kinds of sexual depravity, deviation and promiscuity in the world (according to Christain faith); the same way Morgoth was responsible for "corrupting" Arda. Apparently, sex had nothing to do with this corruption, according to some. Odd, to say the least, when Tolkien gives us descriptions of “indominable lust” on both characters (Morgoth and Sauron).

Them being magical and demonic creatures might indicate they have the ability to control whenever they want to reproduce or not. We know from the lore that Morgoth bound himself to his physical form because of his non-stop corruption of Arda.

On Note 5 (“Vinyar Tengwar”) of “Osanwe-kenta", Tolkien writes:

The things that are most binding [to Valar and Maiar] are those that in the Incarnates have to do with the life of the hroa itself, its sustenance, and its propagation. Thus eating and drinking are binding, but not the delight in beauty of sound and form. Most binding is begetting or conceiving. We do not know the axani (laws, rules, as primarily proceeding from Eru) that were laid down upon the Valar with particular reference to their state, but it seems clear that there was no axan against these things. Nonetheless it appears to be an axan, or maybe necessary consequence, that if they are done, then the spirit must dwell in the body that is used, and be under the same necessities as the Incarnate. The only case that is known in the histories of the Eldar is that of Melian (...) 'The great Valar do not do these things: they beget not, neither do they eat and drink, save at the high asari, in token of their lordship and indwelling of Arda, and for the blessing and sustenance of the Children. Melkor alone became at last bound to a bodily form...'

This might suggest that Morgoth became bound a physical form because of his “great lust”. "Begetting and conceiving” might, indeed, mean more than just standard reproduction, because Morgoth did “begot” with creation and mastery of several races and creatures. However, the only other example of a Ainur (in this case a Maia) getting bound to a physical form in the lore is Melian, when she became pregnant with Lúthien (after reproducing with her Elf love, Thingol).

* Trigger warning: Mentions of Sexual Assault *

Then we have the fact that Morgoth might have been a serial r*pist. In “Myths Transformed” section of “Morgoth’s ring”, Tolkien has Morgoth r*ping Arien, the Maia who ruled the sun, and was “the most ardent and beautiful of all the spirits that had entered into Eä with [Varda]":

. . . afire at once with desire and anger, [Melkor] went to Asa [The Sun] and he spoke to Arie, saying: 'I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse, even as Varda is to Manwe, and together we shall wield all splendour and majesty. Then the kingship of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right, and thou shalt be the partner of my glory.' But Arie rejected Melkor and rebuked him, saying: 'Speak not of right, which thou hast long forgotten. Neither for thee nor by thee alone was Ea made; and thou shalt not be King of Arda. Beware therefore; for there is in the heart of [Asa] a light in which thou hast no part, and a fire which will not serve thee. Put not out thy hand to it. For though thy potency may destroy it, it will burn thee and thy brightness will be made dark.' Melkor did not heed her warning, but cried in his wrath: 'The gift which was withheld I take!' and he ravished Arie, desiring both to abase her and to take into himself her powers. Then the spirit of Arie went up like a flame of anguish and wrath, and departed for ever from Arda; and the Sun was bereft of the Light of Varda, and was stained by the assault of Melkor. And [the Sun] being for a long while without rule . . . grievous hurt was done to Arda . . . until with long toil the Valar made a new order. But even as Arie foretold, Melkor was burned and his brightness darkened, and he gave no more light, but light pained him exceedingly and he hated it. Nonetheless Melkor would not leave Arda in peace . . .

So, yes, Tolkien really had the Devil r*ping the Sun... Can this be a parallel Sauron and Galadriel’s scene in “Rings of Power” Season 2 finale? When Sauron ravishes Galadriel's soul using Morgoth's crown? Since Sauron said he would make Galadriel a “queen as fair as the sea and the sun”, in 1x08? No quite. But more on that later.

Then we have the infamous Lúthien episode. There is an on-going debate on Morgoth’s intentions in this scene, but, in my opinion, and taking in consideration the incident with Arien, the “since he fled from Valinor” bit might indicate his intention was, indeed, to r*pe Lúthien.

Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty [Lúthien] conceived in his thought an evil lust, and a design more dark than any that had yet come into his heart since he fled from Valinor. Thus he was beguiled by his own malice, for he watched her, leaving her free for a while, and taking secret pleasure in his thought. The Silmarillion [Lúthien dances for Morgoth on his Dark Throne, before she puts him and all the host of Angband to sleep with her magic singing]

Tolkien comes back to this “evil lust” Morgoth felt for Lúthien on several works:

…Yet I will give a respite brief, a while to live, a little while, though purchased dear, to Lúthien the fair and clear, a pretty toy for idle hour. In slothful garden many a flower like thee the amorous gods are used honey-sweet to kiss, and cast then bruised, their fragrance loosing, under feet. … A! curse the Gods! O hunger dire,O blinding thirst’s unending fire! One moment shall ye cease, and slake your sting with morsel I here take! In his eyes the fire to flame was fanned,and forth he stretched his brazen hand.Lúthien as shadow shrank aside. ‘Not thus, O King! Not thus!’ she cried. … …And her wings she caught then deftly up, and swift as thought slipped from his grasp, and wheeling round, fluttering before his eyes, she wound a mazy-wingéd dance… The Lay of Leithian, The Lost Road and Other Writings

“Nay,” saith Melkor, “such things are little to my mind; but as thou hast come thus far to dance, dance, and after we will see,” and with that he leered horribly, for his dark mind pondered some evil. Book of Lost Tales vol.2

Then Morgoth laughed, but he was moved with suspicion, and said that her accursed race would get no soft words or favour in Angband. What could she do to give him pleasure, and save herself from the lowest dungeons? He reached out his mighty brazen hand but she shrank away. He is angry but she offers to dance. Commentary to the Lay of Leithian (The Lays of Beleriand)

Almost every servant of Morgoth either came to resent him or were absolutely terrified of him. The most notorious case being Sauron himself, as he went into the hiding after his spectacular defeat in Tol-in-Gauhoth (at the hands of Lúthien and Huan, the Hound of Valinor), probably to escape being punished by Morgoth.

“Rings of Power” already had Sauron talking about the unbelievable tortures he endured at Morgoth’s hands, and taking into consideration all of this… well, those “r*pe of Mairon” dead dove fanfictions might be on to something here.

Do you know what it is to be tortured at the hands of a god?

Sauron’s entire dialogue in this scene can be interpreted as that of a r*pe survivor, actually: we have the dissociation element of “sometimes, the pain almost became a reward. Became a game"; and the self-guilt of “no, you chose it” (which is something many victims of sexual assault go through).

And then, we have the fact that the “feminization of hyper-masculine Mairon” was a consequence of his corruption by Morgoth, as I’ve already talked about in this post.

Tolkien himself talks about the Christian devil in terms of sex and lust, so it’s odd why the Tolkien fandom plays mental gymnastics trying to equalize Tolkien’s use of the sin “lust” with “greed” (these are two different sins in Christian theology, even though they are connected).

The devil is endlessly ingenious, and sex is his favorite subject. He is as good every bit at catching you through generous romantic or tender motives, as through baser or more animal ones. Letter 43

Greed vs. Lust in Tolkien Lore

Indeed, Tolkien uses the sin “Lust” in connection with "Power" and "Jewels" (Silmarils/One ring/gold), but this might be a metaphor for sexual temptation, as well. Mainly because of his Christian inspiration behind the whole story.

Some examples of Tolkien’s usage of the word “lust”, that might be interpreted as “greed”:

The oath of the sons of Fëanor becomes operative, and lust for the Silmarils brings all the kingdoms of the Elves to ruin." "But also they [rings of power] enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination." "Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he [Sauron] becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power – and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves)." Now Sauron’s lust and pride increased, until he knew no bounds, and he determined to make himself master of all things in Middle-earth, and to destroy the Elves, and to compass if he might, the downfall of Númenor

"Also so great was the [One] Ring's power of lust, that anyone who used it became mastered by it..." The Númenóreans attempted to take the Undying Land by force of a great armada in their lust for corporal immortality.

“Greed” is the disordered desire to consume (wealth, power); while “Lust” is the disordered desire to possess (something or someone). Lust is “consumption” and “action”, while greed is “hoarding” and “possessing”. Someone who is greedy wants more and more of something (not necessarily do anything with it); while someone who is lustful wants to do something with the thing it desires.

But “desire” that is not acted upon in Tolkien lore is not sinful, nor it’s a transgression of God’s (Eru) laws.

“The Original sin” (or “The Fall") is central to Tolkien world-building: “The dislocation of sex-instinct is one of the chief symptoms of the Fall [of Adam and Eve]”. And this means is that Lust is the “original sin”, and the gateway to sin, and from where all other sins originate.

St. Paul writes "cupiditas radix malorum": “the root of all evil is cupidity". This is motivated by the fact that Eve ate the forbidden fruit because "she saw it, was beautiful". This explains why Christians have such a bad view of sex, especially when it’s not restrained by marriage.

There is lust for the forbidden fruit (the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat in the Garden of Eden). This is when “sin” is first introduced into the world, leading to their banishment from paradise. The themes here are: disobedience to God, and succumbing to temptation (Devil).

And it’s the serpent that inflames Eve's lust, and "Rings of Power" wasn't even being subtle here (even the OST for this scene is called "The Fall of Galadriel"):

“Lust”, in his biblical/catholic sense, is the misuse of the body, sexually. The opposite of “lust” is “temperance” and “chastity”. “Lust” is disorderly sexual desire, and the subordinated enjoyment of sexual pleasure (against God’s law). It’s not just promiscuity, but extra-marital sex, as well.

In the Bible, “lust” is thematized by adultery (because marriage is a sacred sacrament, and acting against it, it’s breaking God’s laws, hence being a “deadly sin”). We also see this sin in connection with “idolatry” (one of Sauron’s crimes in Tolkien lore), when characters (such as Solomon) take foreign wives, symbolizing the forsaking of one’s partner for another.

But the catch here is: Eve wanted to eat the forbidden fruit. She wanted to bite into it, it was consensual. She was tempted, and she succumbed to temptation, to lust.

This pretty much goes hand with hand what I wrote on my “Of sin and sinners” post, that made the purity police gone wild. Galadriel and Sauron’s dynamic is not only hyper sexual, but it’s being consummated as well, and that’s why Galadriel gets banish from Valinor.

Sauron ravishing Galadriel using a sharp object parallels another Christian event (demonic version): the Ecstasy of Saint Teresa.

Beside me, on the left, appeared an angel in bodily form…. He was […] very beautiful; and his face was so aflame that he appeared to be one of the highest rank of angels, who seem to be all on fire…. In his hands I saw a great golden spear, and at the iron tip there appeared to be a point of fire. This he plunged into my heart several times so that it penetrated to my entrails. When he pulled it out I felt that he took them with it, and left me utterly consumed by the great love of God. The pain was so severe that it made me utter several moans. The sweetness caused by this intense pain is so extreme that one cannot possibly wish it to cease, nor is one’s soul content with anything but God. This is not a physical but a spiritual pain, though the body has some share in it—even a considerable share.

This is, essentially, a description of a Catholic saint having an orgasm. The “lorebros” wanted the Virgin Mary that never was, and “Rings of Power” delivered. Iconic. And that probably provides the subtext to this unhinged expression over here:

Happy with ourselves, are we?

So, yes, in the end, Sauron did take Celeborn’s woman as foreshadowed by Season 1 with the “clams” scene in Númenor (1x03). And now that his blood is inside of her, stuff is about to get wild.

#saurondriel #haladriel #sauron x galadriel #galadriel x sauron

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foundfamilynonsense · 2 years ago

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I don’t think some people realize why the gray jedi thing pisses some of us off so badly.

Imagine you like lord of the rings and you decide to look around the fandom.

And it turns out that 10+ or something years ago someone wrote a piece of fanfiction where they rewrote the rules for the ring. So instead of it only having one master and corrupting everyone else that tried to use it, it sometimes chooses to take a new master if it feels the person is worthy of it. And therefore this author’s self-insert OC can now use the one ring in all its glory without getting turned crazy.

This fanfic gets published (as some fanfics do) and most of the fandom has read it and loves it.

Now, when you (someone who has only dealt with canon works written by Tolkien) see this fic you go… huh. That’s nice, but it goes against the very point of the books and the lore tolkien created. So while it’s a good fic I’m not going to interact with it.

But then people keep harassing you for taking about/ writing the one ring the way tolkien wrote it to begin with.

And they SWEAR that this is the Actual lore of the one ring, and that YOU are wrong. Which is completely insane to you, because FRODE TOOK IT TO MORDOR FOR A REASON. There is only one lord of the ring!! That’s literally the name of the series that’s what it’s about!! If what the fandom was insisting about was possible, there would be no plot. In the original books.

This is why we are so upset over gray jedi!! Bc if it was possible to use the dark side but still be a good guy then wtf is wrong with Anakin? Why the fuck did Darth Vader fall to the dark side? Why did Luke struggle so much? If you can have your cake and eat it too why are the movies so fuckin long?? Why did Luke fail against Vader in Empire? what lesson did he learn in Return? Why would the movie be called Return of the Jedi if Luke had not learned the Jedi ways????

You can write OC’s as gray jedi all you want but when you start forcing it into canon it literally ruins the movies!

#star wars #pro jedi #anti gray jedi #anti grey jedi

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thelordofgifs · 2 years ago

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On Maglor’s Fate

(and why it’s a good thing)

I’ve seen several excellent posts by people far more knowledgeable about HoME than I pointing out that Maglor’s fate in the published silm – wandering the shores in eternal lament – was in fact taken by Christopher Tolkien from a single draft of the legendarium, and that JRRT’s later conception of Maglor’s fate was that he died by suicide at the same time as Maedhros, casting himself into the sea along with his Silmaril. This is a very good point, but despite the fandom’s general lack of adherence to published silm canon (see the prevalence of crispy Amrod truthers, or the lack of consensus on Gil-galad’s parentage) most people seem to have cleaved rather strongly to the idea of Maglor’s survival. Why?

Well, I would like to argue, because it’s SO much more interesting.

Of course, your headcanons are valid! If you prefer thinking that Maglor died at the end of the First Age, go for it; most of the texts support you! But for all the Maglor girlies (gender-neutral) out there, here’s a non-exhaustive list of reasons why Maglor’s survival is better, more satisfying storytelling, and you should continue to cling to this one outdated draft of the silm.

It fits Maglor’s arc better. For such a popular character, I always find it interesting that Maglor is only really developed in the final chapter of the silm – but what we do get in that final chapter is so fascinating. He takes pity on Elrond and Elros, he speaks against stealing the Silmarils, and, most pertinently to my point here, he effectively relinquishes his claim to Eärendil’s Silmaril. The straight line from "its glory is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil", to wanting to surrender to Eönwë, to actually throwing a Silmaril into the sea is SO delicious. A lot of that character growth is wiped out if Maglor instead casts both himself and the Silmaril into the sea.

It better sets up Maglor as a foil to Maedhros. I will never shut up about how Maglor's last debate with Maedhros is the best and most heartbreaking dialogue in the book. Its construction is exquisite, and one of the things I love about it the most is the way they mirror each other's words, becoming, in a way, reflections of each other. ("Who shall release us?"—"If none can release us...") All of Maglor's actions in the final chapter are in direct contrast to Maedhros': compare the fostering of Elrond and Elros with Maedhros' failure to save Eluréd and Elurín, and then consider why it is that Maglor still seems to have some hope that things will all work out (which is why he wants to surrender) while Maedhros despairs completely. That contrast makes it important to me that Maglor reacts in a different, more optimistic manner than Maedhros to the Silmarils burning them. ("More optimistic" by the bleak bleak standards of the end of the silm, at least.) I also really like the kidnap fam parallels of Elros and Maedhros both choosing death in very different ways, whereas Elrond and Maglor both choose life - E&E almost repeating M&M's decisions in a healthier and more wholesome manner.

It better preserves Maedhros' arc. Leading on from the last point, but, I think, separate. Maedhros' suicide, in addition to being just ridiculously tragic, is fascinating. The despair, the profundity of the realisation that it was all for nothing, the idea that Maedhros, who spent decades as a captive of Morgoth, is the one person knows exactly what being burned by the Silmarils means - aahh it's so good I can't dissect it all here. But do also consider Maedhros begging Fingon to kill him, and how he finally got his wish, centuries later! That terrible fall from grace is Maedhros' story. I think having Maglor also die by suicide actually diminishes Maedhros' tragedy, with the rather perverse outcome that two deaths end up being less sad than one.

Unresolved endings are good. This is a rather more personal one, tbh - but I love those last messy loose ends, and Maglor's survival is a quintessential one. Don't the great tales never end? There is, of course, so much excellent fanfic potential in Maglor still wandering Middle-Earth into the Second and Third Ages. Here's a legend from the Elder Days, and you can have him stroll into Rivendell if you want! So much more satisfying than neatly wrapping the story up and tying a bow on top.

As far as I can tell, Tolkien's own reasons for having Maglor die instead were that he wanted Galadriel to be the last surviving leader of the rebellion of the Noldor; I've also seen it argued that Maglor needs to die so that Celebrimbor can be the last surviving Fëanorian. To be honest, I don't think Maglor's survival does much damage to either of these arcs. He's effectively a non-entity after the First Age; the text specifies that he "came never back among the people of the Elves". So you can definitely prefer a version of canon where Maglor lives without losing all those Very Important Feelings about Celebrimbor!

There are, of course, myriad self-indulgent reasons why you might also prefer to think Maglor doesn't die. Maybe you just like him and it would be too sad if he dies; maybe you ship him very specifically with someone born in the Second Age; maybe you just want Elrond to have one thing left after everyone he's lost. I didn't include these in the above list because that was attempting to focus more on literary reasons why Maglor's survival makes for a better story, but they are all so valid and I agree with all of them! But hopefully Points 1-4 can be emphatically whipped out the next time someone implies that the fandom is clinging to Maglor's survival for solely sentimental reasons. There are good, solid grounds for wanting Maglor to live, we promise! It actually improves the story!

you're just jealous our blorbo survives and yours doesn't—

#silmarillion #meta #my meta #maglor #maedhros #the line of miriel #chris actually got some things right guys #this is one of them #cw suicide

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anghraine · 2 years ago

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I forget what the opposite of strawmanning is called, but it's like ... I don't doubt that Tolkien genuinely disliked feminism, I just find it rather odd that his way of addressing this in his work seemed to be writing bitter, hard-edged, and incredibly eloquent women who give fantastic speeches about being fucked over by patriarchy. And either there's no real response from other characters or the response is deeply underwhelming, so I'm like ... okay, what are you even trying to do here?

These women are also usually very beautiful, in the interests of full disclosure, so you get all these ... like, tall hot women who do not fear pain or death!!! and are full of towering resentment at very real injustice and/or suffering. The details and nuances of these characters are quite different, but these characters obviously represent a type that Tolkien found compelling and kept returning to without really finding a solution to the problems these characters raise and pose.

I've read a lot of female characters by a lot of authors, and maybe it's just because my personal taste in female characters is really similar to Tolkien's, but few things click with me so much as Éowyn's speech to Aragorn, or Erendis's to Ancalimë, or Andreth's and Morwen's... everything, or even the shorter defiant responses we hear from Haleth, Aredhel, Niënor, Galadriel. There's even a trace of this with someone as improbable and deliberately unlikable as Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, who confronted Saruman's men, survived imprisonment, and tottered out to hobbit glory.

I don't know, really. Maybe giving angry female characters kickass speeches was as far as he was willing to go with them. And to go by his favored types in male characters, he did have a taste for proud, attractive, talented, often abrasive, and hubristic characters regardless of gender. But it's not only a general type, IMO, when you've got a bunch of these women talking about gender specifically and its impact on them, so—I don't know, sometimes I just shrug and get on with my fandom life without trying to navigate the quagmire of intent. But it's definitely a question I return to.

So there's no real conclusion here. I guess I'll just leave you with my personal favorites! Here's Éowyn's response to Aragorn:

"All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more." (LOTR 767)

But also Erendis, my love:

"...Númenor was to be a rest after war. But if they[men] weary of rest and the plays of peace, soon they will go back to their great play, manslaying and war. Thus it is; and we are set here among them. But we need not assent. If we love Númenor also, let us enjoy it before they ruin it. We also are daughters of the great, and we have wills and courage of our own. Therefore do not bend, Ancalimë. Once bend a little, and they will bend you further until you are bowed down. Sink your roots into the rock, and face the wind, though it blow away all your leaves." (Unfinished Tales)

#i honestly don't remember how much of ancalimë's backstory he even came up with before mentioning her in lotr #but the idea of going 'what if there were ruling queens' and then coming up with 'the mariner's wife' to explain it #is the most tolkien writing women thing ever #anghraine babbles #long post #legendarium blogging #gender blogging #legendarium fanwank #i'm not sure i have another canon where the women manage to exude so much 'fuck all y'all' without a single expletive tbh

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polutrope · 1 year ago

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hiii! 1 and 10 please! :D

A fanon characterisation that you love

I like what the fandom has done with Caranthir and I've definitely been influenced by it in how I write him. Fanon has taken a one-dimensional angry guy and made him compelling: cranky but sensitive, hardworking, independent... and sexy. I also enjoy the way he's typically presented in fanart.

10. A popular character you actually really like and why

No secret here. Maglor.

Short reason: He is the embodiment in one character of so much of what I love about Tolkien's works. Difficult to explain in few words, but for example:

He's a singer and storyteller, someone who carries history and tradition, a theme that is central to Tolkien -- I mean, the stories themselves are presented as part of an in-universe tradition that Maglor (composer of the Noldolante) is literally a part of. That makes me insane.

Oversimplification here, but among a crowd of doomed characters, he seems to believe in choice (let's break the oath), and in taking a leap of faith (maybe we'll be forgiven) at the end; he seems to have a kind of estel ("Then let us be glad, for its glory is seen now by many.") He throws the Silmaril away (this also makes me insane). He decides to stop killing and to nurture instead. To me, these actions come together to demonstrate that kind of radical hope that defines so much of Tolkien.

The Sea. Capital S. That's it.

I know I'll go off about how he's not all soft and good (and he's not), and I'll drag him for being delusional, complacent, and a procrastinator, but the truth is I have decidedly accepted the narrative's invitation to feel pathos for him.

Long reason: I wrote 10k words about him here, there's not much more I can say 😁.

[Spread Love Asks]

#asks #spread love asks #maglor #caranthir #thank you for the ask sorry it took me a few days!

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hollowwhisperings · 1 year ago

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that awkward moment where you re-read a crack post only to find that you accidentally edited out the "crack" part.

i'm sorry hugo weaving: it's not your fault they used the character you played to make drama for "character growth". > _ <

additionally must i apologise to:

Fans of the Live-Action Adaptions, old and new, whose introductions to the Legendarium through said works has undoubtedly gifted us all with new friends to nerd out with.

Fans of the above who met the books first & nonetheless enjoyed the motion picture: adaptions allow us all to better analyze our own, personal readings of "canon" through new perspectives. The Legendarium's uses Adaption (in the form of "Translation" to ENG) as its Framing Device: contesting canonicity is Encouraged within the text itself (which paints itself as "unreliable").

Hugo Weaving, for acting the role as it was written for him (no matter my Opinions on Said Writing): apparently Aragorn & Arwen needed a Direct Antagonist to "grow" from.

the employees of Weta Workshop, who did incredibly meticulous work for Tolkien's Legendarium (& continue to do so).

Sir Christopher Lee, who fully conveyed the Might & Majesty of the Wizard Saruman and wielded fully his Greater Experience (with Tolkien's works, stabbing people & just ~generally~) for the bettterment of LOTR's production. The good Sir rests now in Valinor but is ever One Of Us.

Sir Ian McKellan, for his fearsome & canny portrayal of Middle-Earth's Most Persistent Busybody. He has ever been "Mellon" to Fans & Fandom.

Cate Blanchette, who embodied "Galadriel" in all her beautiful glory: she ascertained the power of the character, subtle and fearsome and ancient. Her Graceful Swooshing of The Big Swishy Sleeves prompted my younger self into gaining an interest in the films at all (& thus Those Books I Forgot I Had). If I ever successfully sit through all three films, I'd gladly argue for her place as an Honary "Great" of Chinese Fantasy Dramas (LOTR isn't xianxia but it certainly resembles it in some parts, at least with its Immortals).

Viggo Mortensen, whose castmates found in him a "Strider" worth following, and who has everafter provided the Tolkien Fandom with its very own Cryptid.

Kiran Shah, for whom we can thank wonders untold in the cinematic Legendarium, in his roles as Frodo and Stunt Actor for all four hobbits. Rightfully was he named "Lord of the Scale Doubles" by his castmates: his laurels are well deserved!

Shah's Fellow Doubles in the LOTR films¹, who have long shared in his obscurity: I have added Footnotes that name The IRL Fellowship in its entirety, as best I could ascertain (corrections welcomed!).

Sophia Nomvete, who suffered first and worst in the Racist Backlash against TROP (her image amongst the very first released in Amazon's Promotions): she is beautiful in the role, even in her beardlessness.

the remaining POC cast of TROP, in its first season & those upcoming: they trailblaze against everything set against them² and I collate them in hope that "Tokenism" become a thing of fable... but mostly because TROP has enough of Us in its cast them to make "namedropping" the work of a paragraph (to which i say: took you long enough, Hollywood).

Alex Tarrant & Kali Kopae: they, amongst others cast as "Numenoreans" in TROP, are the first Polynesian actors to star in Tolkien works with their own faces³. They carry with them the Weight of Legacies, fictional and truthful: may the writing do they & their characters justice.

every & anyone who sets the Legendarium to Song, its "truest" incarnation by a Watsonian's metric. yes, even those responsible for the whole "they're taking the hobbits to Isengard!" meme.

Footnotes below the cut: there I touch on Prejudice & Politick, as found throughout Tolkien works: Racism is the primary focus (Anti-Semitism is tied-therein, made "implicit" because This Is Tolkien afterall) though I make reference also to Ableism.

¹The IRL Fellowship of the Ring: Doubles & All

Frodo Baggins was played not only by Elijah Wood but by Kiran Shah, who doubly served as "Size" & "Stunt" Double for Wood.

Sam was played by Sean Astin (principal), Bhoja ‘BK’ Kannada (size) & Kiran Shah (stunts).

Merry by Dominic Monaghan (principal), Martin Lenisson Gray (size) & Kiran Shah (stunts).

Pippin by Billy Boyd (principal), Praphaphorn ‘Fon’ Chansantor (size) & Kiran Shah (stunts).

(Yes, Kiran Shah was apparently the stuntsman for all of the hobbits: finding this out required my reading of More Recent Journalism, as Wikis only credit their principal actors & size doubles in the roles, with Shah's stuntwork credited only generically in-film & in wikis)

Gimli was primarily played by Brett Beattie but, despite Some Effort from his colleagues to confer co-crediting, only John Rhys-Davies was named in main billing ("movie politics", apparently). Beattie was initially cast for stunt & scaling work, but soon became a full-time "stand-in" for much of principal photography (Davies was Infamously Allergic to the Gimli Prosthetics, which restricted how long he could work).

An Aside: I remain personally ??? at why the production bothered to cast anyone, only to give them a full-face of prosthetics. The prosthetic wig & facial hair? Yes: modern beauty standards made it unlikely that a "fully haired" actor would be found for the role. The prosthetic nose, forehead & [whatever else] too? Those served no narrative purpose save, perhaps, an idea that "dwarves should look Old and [conventionally] Unattractive". This is my conclusion upon recalling the general "effect" of Gimli's changed characterization in the films & PJ's Pointed Rejection of casting "little people" in principal roles to begin with.

Legolas was played by Orlando Bloom (principal), Paul Randall (size) & Morgan Evans (stunts). Though Evans was only credited as Legolas in Fellowship, given that the entire trilogy was shot together, it can be Assumed that Evans retained the role as theirs is the only name that came up.

Aragorn was played by Viggo Mortensen (principal), Paul Randall (size) & Kirk Maxwell (stunts).

Gandalf was played by Sir Ian McKellen (principal), Paul Randall (size) & Basil Chapham (stunts). Chapham was credited as a "riding double" (or otherwise under "stunts"). A photo exists of all three Gandalfs in costume together: it's adorable.

Boromir was played by Sean Bean (principal), Paul Randall (size) & Lance Louez (stunts).

Paul Randall did indeed play as Legolas, Aragorn, Gandalf AND Boromir. Though I could only found him specifically credited as Legolas, interviews & cast photos do indeed name him as a "Stand-In" for all four roles. At 7"1, Randall could be used to scale "Big Folk" into scenes with the principal hobbit actors.

��Hollywood Racism in Fantasy Film Casting: Watch This Space?

We all Cringed at the blatant yellow & brownface of the Live-Action "Avatar the Last Airbender" film. The author of the Wizard of Earthsea series has long battled for its primary protagonist, Ged, to look like himself on book covers: he came to adaptions "pre-whitewashed" (to the great frustration of his creator, writer Ursula K. Leguin).

While there is no Public Ado About TROP from its BIPOC cast, save their grace in the face of Racist Backlash, Amazon's making the series at all was inspired by the success of HBO's Game of Thrones. The nature of Streamed Media is something currently protested: actors & writers own nothing they make, can say nothing of their work nor on its reception, and this has yet to Change for the begger.

Those Aware of how GoT handled its canonically POC characters (the Dornish, the peoples of Essos & the Summer Islands) are likely Aware of its Incredulous Killing-Off of the only black woman in its primary cast (Missandei, adapted to screen as an adult woman). Missandei's actor, Nathalie Emmanuelle, has been Very Diplomatic in interviews on her experiences while filming & later watching the show.

Additional instances of how racism has affected more recent Big Budget Fantasy Productions, "internally" (through casting & writing choices) and "externally" (racist backlash against adaptions & actors) can be found in the Star Wars sequel trilogy (Disney) and the televisation of Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" (Freemantle). Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico, SW) & John Boyega (Finn, SW) have spoken on their respective experiences with both (both went on to work on other Disney projects but Disney is its own Balrog) , while Orlando Jones has spoken of the racial discrimination within the production of American Gods.

The ongoing Writer's Strike is Informative on the limits of speech imposed on those working on Streamed Media such as TROP, writers & actors both. While TROP's 2nd season had already "wrapped" prior to the Strike, its production team & cast are still very much affected it: their speech is policed, by contractual obligations & self-preservation. Many of TROP's cast is "fresh": they do not have the clout to break convention, especially those acting as "trailblazing minorities" & whose continued employment is more vulnerable for it.

³The (Accidental) Diversity of the LOTR film trilogy & its (Deliberate) Othering of its BIPOC

PJ's films are sometimes joked as being (very long) tourism ads for New Zealand: the islands had been "cast" as Middle-Earth, something retained in pop culture ever since.

To fill out the wide landscapes of Middle-Earth required more cast than Hollywood could affordably export: thusly was casting opened to the local populace. This is how PJ's LOTR films' were made Accidentally Diverse.

Much of the Cavalry in the LOTR films (all those extras on horseback) were IRL Eowyns: the majority of the locals with the horsemanship the production required turned our to be female. Given that entirety of Eowyn's Plotline requires gender-exclusion in Rohan's armies? All those female riders in the background were "disguised" with beards.

Lesser known (certainly less publicised) is the quickness of the LOTR production in deciding which local New Zealanders would be cast & in what roles: a myth of whiteness in "New Zealand as Middle-Earth" was actively chosen at every opportunity.

Tolkien's Imperialist Guilt kicked in, eventually, for his depicting the Enthralled Armies of Sauron as... IRL peoples traditionally colonized (in many cases enslaved) by European Powers. He'd accidentally-on-purpose written "reverse racisn" into Middle-Earth. He'd also depicted & decribed orcs with much of the dehumanizing rhetoric used against peoples of African. This prompted both White & Catholic Guilt in his personal writings (...that never made it into printings of the Legendarium).

Decades later, when filming a big budget live-action adaption to Tolkien's Legendarium, the Production (Peter Jackson definitely included) decided that all their visually BIPOC extras should be cast exclusively as... Orcs and Foreign Invaders of Middle-Earth. Y'know: the very same Enthralled Armies of Sauron that had so troubled the Professor (very belatedly) for the Blatant Racism of it all.

Amongst those Visually BIPOC persons cast as Foreign Invaders? Just about everyone who was Maōri: Maōri, the very people native to "Middle-Earth", and a country that was very much colonized by European Powers (there were also some Attempted Conquest, though "there were no New Zealand Wars" was still the "historical canon" taught during LOTR's filming: mayhaps that explains how the Irony went unrealised).

I will note that it's been twenty-ish years & several more films yet we're still waiting on PJ to have his Belated "Crisis Of Conscience" RE: Racism. TROP, at least, cast its Maōri actors as Proper Numenorean Conquerors so... progress?

#tolkien meta #hollow whispers #i began this in earnest penitence to fellow fans bc i know the films are deservedly beloved #but then i went looking for the IRL fellowship & half of them were uncredited??#that half was somehow the disabled &/or POC half #i've tried to Hide The Dreaded Politick under the cut #cw ableism #cw racism #cw antisemitism

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ao3feed-thehobbit · 2 years ago

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first thing we'd climb a tree (...and maybe then we'd talk)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/wKzsjFI

by MindyMN

After the Battle of the five armies, all the pieces and tidbits that once upon a time represented Erebor's strength and finesse are being slowly picked up in an effort to return the kingdom to its former glory. Eventually, that also entails ensuring Durin’s line will not come to its end. You are the princess of Nurava, a dwarven kingdom with a shameful past and barely any prospects of having allies. It makes no sense you’re being considered to marry Prince Fíli, the heir to the throne of the kingdom of Erebor, but the letter doesn’t lie. You never felt the Longing you'd heard so much about, never been really in love and as much as you would like to hide that fact, it bothers you and has hardened your spirit throughout the years. But duty is a duty and if you threw away saving your kingdom for having something you might have zero chance of ever finding, you would have never found a way to live with yourself.

Words: 7165, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Fandoms: The Hobbit (Jackson Movies)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

Characters: Original Female Character(s), You, Fíli (Tolkien), Bilbo Baggins, Original Male Character(s), Thorin Oakenshield, Kíli (Tolkien), Tauriel (Hobbit Movies), Dís (Tolkien), Bofur (Tolkien), Bifur (Tolkien), Bombur (Tolkien), Óin (Tolkien), Glóin (Tolkien), Dori (Tolkien), Nori (Tolkien), Ori (Tolkien), Balin (Tolkien), Dwalin (Tolkien)

Relationships: Fíli (Tolkien)/Reader, Fíli (Tolkien)/You, Minor or Background Relationship(s), Bilbo Baggins/Thorin Oakenshield, Kíli (Tolkien)/Tauriel (Hobbit Movies)

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe - Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Post-Battle of Five Armies, Arranged Marriage, Angst, Fluff, This will probably turn sappy really quick, No beta we die like my heart after BOTFA, Dwarven Ones | Soulmates, Other Additional Tags to Be Added

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/wKzsjFI

#IFTTT #ao3feed #fanfic #the hobbit

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ao3feed-tolkien · 2 years ago

Text

first thing we'd climb a tree (...and maybe then we'd talk)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/gqJescE

by MindyMN

Words: 7165, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Fandoms: The Hobbit (Jackson Movies)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M

Relationships: Fíli (Tolkien)/Reader, Fíli (Tolkien)/You, Minor or Background Relationship(s), Bilbo Baggins/Thorin Oakenshield, Kíli (Tolkien)/Tauriel (Hobbit Movies)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/gqJescE

#IFTTT #ao3feed #fanfic #Tolkien #JRR Tolkien #Tolkien works #ao3 #fan fiction

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annellspethraven · 2 years ago

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7/5/2020 How Bullies Run Us Over. Why We Let Them.

Reposted from DeviantArt. Crosspost.

Pretty funky title for a journal series that is supposed to be about the experience of writing, huh? You'd think so, there is little room for an ode to possessive pronouns and no participles are dangling thus far, with that for a subject. No, no, as with so many things, this would be the intersection of assorted topics in my sphere of thought. These essays are like rapidly forming moons; enough disparate things spin for a while and gravity gloms them together until an opinion spews forth. No one will read it, but at least I'll be able to quit thinking on it so it's all good.

I mentioned bullies, so let's discuss. Bullies are like rotten eggs. Everyone in theory knows what they are, everyone knows they are undesirable, but until you have had one break open under your nose and experienced the intense miasma in all its retch-inducing glory, you really have no idea of the severity under discussion. There are bullies in schools, in homes, in offices and oh yes, on the Internet. The ones in the latter location are particularly difficult to eradicate, for like their real world counterparts the cockroaches they strike from a hidden place of safety, make themselves inaccessible and invulnerable as possible to attack, feel entitled to use the resources of others to their full advantage with little or no compunction, and will accept zero personal responsibility for any conflict (including failed communication) left in the wake of their activity. Any attempt to resist them usually leads to...a greater infestation.

Any who feel online bullies are not a problem might wish to take the time to view Natalie Wynn's exactingly detailed video discussion titled 'Canceling' viewable here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMPJVmXxV8 sorry for the clumsy link, my account must not be fancy enough to embed URLs. However it does open with the powerful quotation by Spinoza:

I shall return to this sentiment but do not wish to digress. In my observation of writers, which is admittedly flawed, limited, subjective and skewed -- and yet reinforced by not only my personal acquaintance and friendships by the dozens but a lifetime of perusing biographies and autobiographies of dozens more authors that contributed to the literary canon, I feel it fair to say that I have noticed some commonalities of temperament that transcend time, culture, and gender. Interestingly, as a fanfic writer, my literary circle is almost overwhelmingly female. But the authorship of the literary canon is almost overwhelmingly male. So I'm going to argue the gender balance is fairly represented. Obviously my circle is alive, now. Most lit. fiction authors I have read are quite dead. Almost all hail from Western European or American culture, so there are my attempts at disclosure. What are these commonalities? A propensity toward melancholy (depression/anxiety or other behavioral health difficulty), emotional sensitivity (sometimes extreme), introversion (also sometimes extreme), really damn smart, artistically gifted, and able to use words like a fish moves through water. Of course it is anyone's prerogative to disagree, but then there would be essays with footnotes and citations going back and forth and that would be so very tiresome.

Obviously I write in the Tolkien fandom, yet I exist socially somewhat at its fringes. Often what I learn of it is told to me by friends who have been involved far longer and far more deeply than I. While mostly positive, I was beyond flabbergasted to hear of some of the gobsmacking BS that has gone on in some of these groups. Backstabbing and Machiavellianism worthy of the era of Versailles, apparently engineered by a handful of narcissists with too much time on their hands. Small minded people, Internet Kardashians whose purpose is to exist for the sake of having sycophants. What an interesting world except not! of which I want no part. However, the appeal and also the danger is that like anything else on the Internet, online relationships can bleed into real life both to amazing benefit and amazing Oh Noes, when one meets the wrong sort. And it's so, so easy to be duped.

I belong to a few Internet spaces where writers and readers of Tolkien themed material lurk, and as a writer-advocate for those who are Other I definitely am at home in spaces that are wholly welcoming toward LGBTQIA+ but I am also an incredibly busy writer who generates a lot of output, and when I am not writing I am trying to learn digital art software so that story illustrations can be possible. In short, I live under a rock and that is my running joke in many online groups. I keep up with a very few close friends. So I became dismayed, and then quite angry, to learn that a friend who I deeply admire as a talented writer and a dear human being was being openly trashed by an online bully who had formerly been her writing collaborator. I read what the man had written about her. It was not left to vagaries, couched in terms of a general essay such as what I am writing here.

No, her very well-known pseudonym was trotted out for all to read, so that the magnitude of her alleged sins could be broadcast to all. And then, once he had itemized all the ways in which my friend had abused his good nature, he made a point of being so magnanimous as to instruct his hangers-on not to 'cancel' her. Oh, how very generous, after he took a character she created, used it, and had a misunderstanding unfold concerning said character. Then, instead of graciously parting ways, he elected to vomit out a temper tantrum for all to behold, trying to smear the name of someone who has earned nothing but respect in the writing community -- whose characterization skills have reached so high that they will dwarf his own for years to come. Whose ability to weave complex narrative from external sources soars so high over his own I don't have words. It was a mistake to behave so untowardly, and an ugly mistake at that which left him appearing terribly pathetic.

Newsflash. I have my own original characters (OCs), and I have written stories that use the OCs of other people. In my opinion, the OCs of other people are sacred. They are brainchildren. I've written massive, massive story lines (yes, hundreds of thousands of words and up and if it were millions I would still give no f*cks) that have gone unpublished because the character owner was unhappy. Hasn't wanted to get around to the story. I don't care. If the OC creator so much as twitches that's all I need to know. The reason? The comfort of the creator concerning their creation is my absolute priority at all times, not how many words I have written. The OC under discussion here is not the equivalent of Schroeder on Peanuts, some relative obscura; we might as well be discussing one of Tolkien's flagship characters such as Frodo or Sam. Writing with others requires first and foremost humility, caring greatly about the other writer, patience and consideration. Sacrifice any of those to put the story first and I guarantee a shipwreck. If a person needs to sacrifice any of those, frankly, they will struggle to collaborate.

I said I wanted to return to Spinoza. "Not to mock, execrate or lament human actions but understand them." Spinoza is a better person than I, because I did have to vent some anger. I had to vent some anger at how fed up I am with entitled children taking cheap shots at people when they launch vitriol like that from a web page and don't have the basic courage to allow comments on what they've written. But Spinoza prods me to abandon my criticisms of the behavior in favor of comprehending the reason for why it occurred in the first place. To which I must respond that I am not a reader of hearts or minds, but I know someone who feels hurt and who is lashing out with emotions similar to that of a teenage boy having his first breakup when I see it. I have seen others accuse this individual of a pattern of unkind behavior of similar nature. Maybe that is true maybe it is not; were I to claim to know him I would be committing the same folly he himself sets forth. But I can comment on what this man did not consider. He never took into account that maybe none of the things he claims were said and done against him were done with the motivations he projects onto my friend. It interests me, when a person can write an entire diatribe using the second person voice, "you this, you that," as if he actually can know what is in the thought of another person. The level of assumption and overlooked possibilities is staggering.

Enough about the bully. What about the bullied? My friend's business is her own. I'm going to discuss my own experiences with being bullied. It's happened to me more than once and interestingly, of the three serious instances two of them were from women. The first time I dealt with this I was in my early twenties. The second time, my thirties and the third time my forties so I felt like the spacing was really nice in terms of seeing how my responses changed over time. Each time I put up with the crap for a shorter amount of time before finding a means to assert what resources were available to me. The first time, I honestly caved to the bully. I just wanted it to go away. The second time I had HR, I was at work at a large institution and didn't have to put up with such treatment. The third time concerned someone who used up a lifetime's worth of chances and I learned there are risks when a person refuses to tolerate certain things; this complex circumstance is too much to elaborate on here but...a bit more about it at the end.

That's just it though. Certain things. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Actions have consequences. Standing up to bullies, or trying to, is an action. Cancelling, doxing, hacking, cyberstalking, online threats, message bombing, or if you are a writer, mass spamming of your story comments, or attempts to sully your name or otherwise make your life hell in your online communities. They sound like just words until they happen to you. In my short time in the fandom I've had an angry person start a fake account with my own pseudonym so they could try to leave comments on all my stories saying what a shit writer I am, harass me in chat groups or direct messages trying to trash talk about online personal drama, and a few other instances that I like to call Teh Dramaz and that I endeavor to avoid. Even this above mentioned instance I might usually call Teh Dramaz but this escalated beyond that into actual bullying which is why it has my attention. So to call out this abysmal behavior is that thing where in order to rebuke, one sticks out one's neck and we all know that in this world that can lead to it getting chopped off.

Isn't that sad? Doing the right thing, speaking out about an injustice can basically get a person lined up for some pretty crap consequences, and so this is why people stay quiet? Clam up? Remember though, I mentioned earlier about writers and temperaments? As a group, a lot of us can ill- afford to stand up for ourselves at all. Even an ordinary person thinks twice about rocking the boat. So what about when one self-describes as mentally ill? When one is actively under treatment for depression and anxiety and perhaps more difficult things yet? Well hello there! Lining up to potentially be in the sights of a person capable of doing what was done to my friend is quite literally asking to have life brought to a halt. If that shitbomb were levelled at me, I might be pondering a whole lot of evil to find out where this guy lives and do something special five years later, but would I try to do anything at all online? Would I try to stand up for myself, and risk even more of this crap coming at me? Or worse, risk it escalating, because if someone can do this, how far are they capable of going? I wouldn't, because of everything I just wrote above. I'd roll over and take it. I'd let them get away with it. Because in this day and age, one has to consider all the scenarios, and I personally would not be able to navigate the added stress. I'd desperately need this to all just go away, and so the bad egg wins.

Except he does not, and here is why. I truly believe that Karma sees all things, She is a right bitch, and she in fact knows where everyone lives. It's seriously the universe. What goes around comes around. How one treats people, whether a person does good or ill; it finds its way back time and again. So yes there is anger, and the terrible sense of violation and feeling helpless in the short term. But eventually....well. I mentioned a third person who bullied me, earlier. There was a night I was so, so angry, I literally went outside and screamed at the moon for something to happen to him, because he was a horrible person. Now that man is living in a ramshackle RV, a drug addict, his family won't speak to him, he lost the respect of every friend he ever had and I never did a thing.

**********

Comments:

spicedwinefanfic

Jul 6, 2020

You have reached 5 million words! That’s astonishing and many congratulations 🥳 Reply 2likes

spicedwinefanfic

Edited Jul 6, 2020

Oh, and I’ve been in the fandom (as in posting fanfic) since 2007 and in that time yes, you meet a few strange people that you choose not to interact with, or people you simply don’t mesh with and avoid, but I still talk to people now that I met in those early years. Unlike *him*, I don’t need to move from community to community, changing names and shouting ‘Victim!!’ Because I’m really not that bad. I’m not a Narcisstic Predator, which he is, or a bully, which he also is, and I don’t think I’m above everyone else, that everyone else is wrong and I’m right. Which he does.

He would very much like me to be as he describes me, I’m sure, so again he can shout: ‘Victim!’ He stamped about because he apparently heard at second hand that I didn’t want him writing my characters. A lie. I certainly didn’t want him to and I made it plain his version of them was nothing to do with my ‘verse, and that I didn’t like it. However I never told him to stop. I believed he would simply get bored and fizzle out and hoped he would take the large hint that I would prefer it if he didn’t write them. There was no more reason in fact, for them to be in his fics (except that he wanted to ‘play’ with them more, write more bad porn and write a seven-some orgy, but for storytelling purposes, there was no need for them to be there. I thought I couldn’t actually prevent him from writing them and was not in contact with him so I thought, just let him get bored. Please!

I could have gone his vindictive route. I could have posted all the links I have about his previous damaging behaviour, with screenshots, showed all his various names, shown people who had had their reputations trashed by him over the last 15 or more years.

However, I didn’t. A big part of me thinks he simply isn’t worth it. And he is such a massive energy vampire that having nothing to do with him and his dirty, sticky hands-all-over-my-characters ideas-thievery is the best thing for me. Reply 2likes

AnnEllspethRaven

Jul 6, 2020

Makes popcorn and sits down to read

spicedwinefanfic

Edited Jul 6, 2020

Okay, this was a letter I wrote to someone I respect before he wrote his diatribe.

so you can see that he did want an excuse to vilify me.

I’ll keep the person’s name out of it, but she is highly respected in the Silm fandom.

____

Early in ‘19, someone ( I’ll call him Seb for a reason — this is not his fanfic pseudonyn, but it is one he has used) added me to their access list on DW. I had no idea who he was, but it transpired that they were in an online relationship with someone I knew and who sometimes podfics my fic. So I added him back.

Although, oddly enough it transpired I had heard of him, although not by that name, a few years before.

A little later Seb announced he would be offering his work for FandomTrumpsHate, which was laudable, and so I bid on him. It became clear from what Seb said that they wanted to (had already been) writing my OC Vanimórë in a Star Wars fic and so I said well, if you want to write him, write him for FTH, in anything. Apparently they’d read my work, introduced to it by their partner.

I thought it would be a short fic, and wasn’t bothered really, what he wrote, as it was for charity. I was interested, as who does not like someone writing their OC’s? A few people have written mine and I’ve been delighted. But, well, my stories are quite long, and I tend to think if a reader has read them they’ll also understand them and the characters. I didn’t comprehend that to Seb, characters he deems ‘hot’ are there for sex. They’re meat. And they’re his. (He is, by the way, 40, not a fandom baby).

At the same time, a friend of mine in the Tolkien fandom was also added to this person’s access list and — a little later — we opened a Discord, when it became ever clearer that this person wished to use all our OC’ s in their fic. We had, prior to to this, decided to write a ‘crossover of both our ‘verses and Seb wanted to be a part of it. And how!

First we received the: I never give many people access because of bad experiences but you two are wonderful, which was a bit of a warning sign to me.

And then it got more and more bizarre.

Seb was trying to get me to bring my verse into line with his and add his characters to them; he wanted his characters to be in anything we wrote, as well as his own AU series. He got really, really upset if they were not in the stories and said that his own OC’s were incredibly upset and impossible to live with if they were not in all the stories. Oh, the drama, the pain.

He tried to steamroller — and I was just relieved at that point that I’d finished my main series last year. I didn’t say much, due to the fact I thought I might come across as ‘precious’. I didn’t like to make a fuss.

He took over any ideas we had and incorporated them into his fic as if they were his. Many of mine are very ‘in ‘verse’ specific, not canon, and don’t make sense without knowledge of my stories. All he ever talked about was his main OC having sex with ours, (His tag line was ‘When do they fuck?) and then he began to drop his guard a bit and say that he was in fact his character, and also an Elf (Fëanor) reborn as a mortal.

I thought, oh not not again! Because this happened to me in 06-7 just when I was writing and posting my first story, and that person did get the better of me in that she insisted on writing within some of the fics and changing the storyline, resulting in my having to edit her part out when she left in a strop. (I was glad to, it was the same thing, every male in the story apparently loved and wanted her OFC)

Anyhow, she said she was Legolas’ wife, (reborn as a mortal) not Fëanor, but the same basic claim going on. (I honestly don’t care if people want to call themselves a god, a reborn Elf etc, as long as they don’t deceive or hurt vulnerable people or screw them for money).

Something was niggling at the back of my head at this point, that I had heard of someone in the pagan community doing this kind of thing: data mining for ideas, stealing (in that community) people’s spiritual experiences and saying they were their own. I am not a pagan as such, but do read pagan Wordpress blogs and have for some years. Seb had been a pagan, or something like it, I gathered.

I couldn’t quite put my finger on what niggled, and I had no energy. My mother was in worsening health all last year and I was already in grief about her dying; I just didn’t have the wherewithal to fight or wonder all that much.

Seb soon proved to be impossible to deal with. If you said something like ‘I don’t think that would work because...’ He would throw a huge fit and storm off, leaving the server and then rant on his Dreamwidth about people being mean to him. He would constantly demand to know why his OC was not in a story, or how mine could be in one world when they were supposed to be in his (I have no idea, mate, you wrote them into your fic and it’s an AU, anyhow).

In the end, he simply left the server in a tantrum, but we remained briefly in touch on DW. He said he avoided Discord because it was too ‘immediate’. (Couldn’t control it, I think).

When my mum died in Feb, I had already decided to cut ties with Seb, but I was still wondering why I was so sure that he’d done this kind of thing before. So I emailed two people I knew in the pagan community and asked if they knew him, or rather someone who acted like him.

Oh they did, although not under the pseudonym he uses for fanfic. One of them said: ‘What did Seb do now?’ (I thought who the hell is Seb, that’s not how I know him?) And the other linked me to something that pretty much blew my mind.

(It is worth noting at this point that Seb was in the Star Wars fandom immediately before Tolkien, last year, and left because they tried the same trick with some people there, as they did with me and my friend).

Bear in mind, this deals with people who believe in demons, spirits, etc (well, I do in a vague way but the meat of the matter is the behaviour of this person)

And this was where I realised I had heard of Seb (or rather what he called himself on Tumblr: Nornoriel Lokason) I read this post at the time! I still cannot quite believe that I came across him via a different venue and ended up knowing him!

I have also screenshot a couple of other people regarding him. He has gone through many, many names.

So Seb, also known a few years ago in the pagan community as Nornoriel Lokason, (and many other names) is a long-time predator of vulnerable people apparently. He cuts people out of the herd by making them feel ‘special’ then bullies, gaslights, controls and plays the victim card for all he’s worth. He has reinvented himself many times.

This was more important in the pagan community, obviously, as it involved peoples’ spiritual beliefs and those communities do tend to have a lot of vulnerable people. In fandom...well, the first people (as far as I know,) he’s tried this on with in the Tolkien fandom was myself and my friend — who aren’t vulnerable, but apparently had something he wanted. (He called us both ‘Senpai’ — ‘Senpai has noticed me!’)

On a post about Narcissistic Predators that was inspired by Seb/Nornoriel Lokason someone said that:

In some cases the NP (Narcissistic Predator) may actually leave the community when called out. Or they may stick around and construct several false identities to sockpuppet and manufacture the illusion of support for their cause. (In a non-pagan community I once watched an NP use at least four separate author identities at once to congratulate himself on his accomplishments in forum threads and give his own stories high ratings and good reviews, and he was only proven as a sockpuppeteer when he accidentally answered an email for one identity as the persona of another.)

Seb has sock puppet accounts on his DW to reply to him, that he answers (like a kind of role play I suppose) and also, I am very sure, on his AO3 account to leave him shining comments.

He used sock puppet accounts when he was in the pagan community apparently. That doesn’t really matter, only in that it shows that this is what he does, wherever he is, whatever community he’s part of.

His DW, when not filled with references to his characters banging, talking to him, etc was all about how abused he was, how much PTSD he suffered, how disabled he was, in how much pain. I sent him adding up to about $180 via his Ko-fi so he could buy marijuana as he said it eased his pain, and it was legal where he was. He is used, it seems, to people sending him money.

He was moving, also, as his relationship with his mother was toxic. Some of the money I sent him was to help with the move. I don’t care about the money, but it seems I fell into the same trap as a lot of other people. I was sorry for him.

What he did to me (and my friend) was basically this (from the post about Narcissistic Predators)

* Love-bombing, IE really intense relationships really fast, combined with “everyone else in my life has been terrible and abusive, but Not You!” I know many people who have had multiple previous toxic relationships/friendships and who are lovely. Equally I know of a few who have a repeating pattern of deciding everybody in their life is terrible for them, burning all their bridges, finding new friends/lovers and deciding they are perfect and the only good thing in their lives and their saviour. Rinse and repeat. People who see every last person in their life as either terrible or up on a pedestal are toxic and sooner or later, everyone up on the pedestal will end up being The Worst.

Except, I’m not in the pagan community, save tangentially, and am not vulnerable and neither is my friend. I don’t need to be love-bombed, but for a while, I was quite caught up in the possibilities of the ‘multiverse’, and am still using some of the ideas. (My ideas).

I hoped that Seb’s full-on enthusiasm to the multiverse and his desire to utterly control it (and us) would burn out, but as he’s disabled and never goes out, he writes all the time and so far it has not.

I don’t want to tell him to delete my characters from his fic; I think that would mean, but I do want to tell him not to use them any more, and at this point, he no longer actually needs them. When he told me he would be writing an idea I have not even developed yet, I asked him not to (except as an AU) because I’ve not even got to it — and of course he wanted his OC to be in that too, but that was never going to happen. I never got an answer to that.

He has asked (on a public DW) post that anyone he’s fallen out with not comment on his fics or via a mutual on DW and he moderates his AO3 comments.

Am I within my rights to ask him not to use my OC’s any longer? I have had to change my policy on people borrowing my OC’s due to him just treating them like masturbatory fantasies to service his OC (himself). His stories are two thirds bad porn, and I simply don’t want characters I’ve spent years writing and developing being reduced to ‘porn stars’. (Yes, I know orig fic authors have to put up with that,lol, but I don’t mind people writing my OC’s — I just don’t want him to!)

The thing is, in all my years in online fandom I have known mostly Silm-fic writers who I would completely trust to write my characters; they wouldn't even have to ask really, I’d just wave and say, go ahead. (Which I did with Seb) They also write stories, not just porn with a thin plot and no character development.

Then Seb came along, very complimentary about my OC’s. I didn’t know him prior, had never read anything he wrote and didn’t bother due to the fact what he was writing was for charity, which was the important bit. He knew a friend of mine so I thought that was okay (they split up a few weeks ago by the way!) He isn’t a Silm-fic writer. He just wants his porn.

There’s something extremely off about Seb, and I thought that even before I knew about him, and is partly why I did some investigation.

He’s gross, in the truest sense of the word. He demands people respect his boundaries, but seems not to recognise other people have any. Any form of ‘No’ and he would just, as I say, go into a massive mood and slam out of the server than accuse people of being bullies.

The people he lived with said (in that link) he used to scream and throw things, and I can well believe it. Also he acts as if he owns you, all your ideas, stories and characters. It really was a very weird experience. Imagine someone did that with your verse, not only wanting to write stories within it but wanting you to write and act as if their own stories had always been within it, and including them — and ending up that they were acting, talking and thinking as if they in fact had written your ‘verse. I’m still trying to wrap my head around that as I’ve never come across anything like it.

I did hope he had dropped writing my characters until recently one of them was mentioned in a current WIP of his, with the suggestion that he might be involved in a foursome, and my heart sank, as I really don’t want Seb to write him. He also has some kind of seven-some orgy planned with my OC’s in another fic. I just honestly don’t want him to put his sticky hands on them any longer 😭

I don’t want to sound horribly precious. Another fanfic author wrote her OFC having extremely explicit sex with one of my OC’s but she is a superb writer and in her hands there is elegance and some agency and beauty (and an actual story) What Seb wants to write is just dirty porn, over and over. My characters have agency beyond being used for someone’s sexual fantasies. And I know that is all they are because Seb heavily hinted out that he knew Van and shagged him on the ‘Astral’ and all sort of hur hur innuendoes which (I think) were supposed to ‘mark his territory’ as in ‘I have absolute freedom to write your characters and there’s nothing you can do about it as I KNOW them (better than you)’. And his constant comments that ‘Vanimórë is like a cat, he knows who he likes.’ (Him and not me apparently).

Whatever.

I absolutely do know that if I request he not write my OC’s any more, I will be a bully and he the victim — he thrives on that kind of drama. he will undoubtedly talk of it on AO3 comments and chapter notes; he will probably make a (public) DW post and have his sock puppets rage at me on both. I may lose readers and all good feeling in the fandom, I suppose. I am not well-known, my fic is definitely niche, and in general am quiet, so there is no reason for people not to believe him. He has readers who comment on his stories because they read mine, and I expect he will rant to them, as well.

His aim (I believe, going by his past history and comments on Discord) is to be a BNF and have followers as he had in the pagan community; he seems to need followers, to control people. He always made a great fuss about not getting many comments when he was such a good writer, and about never reading hardly any Silm fanfic as there was no ‘good sex’. I think he does not really know the Silmarillion at all, just googles it. His work is all set in modern times with Elves being reborn as human because that’s what ‘he’ is. It’s an interesting premise, but the continual porn and the same story (retold) gets old really fast.

I don’t suppose anyone save me really cares about this, and I wish he would just go away, or just stop writing my characters. He ought to be aware that I don’t wish him to. I deleted the fics I had written for him every time he was ‘having a bad day’ (every day) I have excised all mention of his characters from my own fic, which frankly were just shoehorned in to stop him whining and causing scenes.

But I am beginning to wonder if he actually wants me to say something so he can cause drama.

I stopped commenting on his fics, removed him from my DW circle and he never received a reply to my request for him not to write my ‘future fic’. I just got on with things and hoped he would fizzle out. I wanted to cut ties completely, and then he begins writing about my OC’s again. There’s no reason for him to reference or write them in this current WIP.

He was exhausting be around. He wanted adulation all the time. And he is the kind of person you cannot give enough attention to. A few hours later it’s the same thing: He’s having a bad day, tell him he’s a brilliant writer, etc, etc. My strength was going into trying to keep my mum calm and bracing myself for her death. With that, Seb simply drained me.

I doubt he would allow any comment that I write on his fic to go through — except to use it to say ‘Look, look, Spiced Wine’s a horrid bully. I’m poor and disabled and writing’s the only thing that keeps me going and she’s trying to take it away from me, etc, etc.’

People have read his fics because they read mine (I mentioned it and some readers went over to see) and he knows my OC’s are a draw for those readers but also hates it. (which is why I think he wants to own them, to try to make himself believe they are actually his)

If people comment that they miss seeing my OC’s, he rants about why don’t people like his — I don’t know, Maybe because his OC is him and he’s simply not a nice (or interesting) person? So I think unless he just gets bored and finds another ‘shiny’ he will keep writing them (or rather not writing them (one of my readers told him that she did not recognise Vanimórë at all) writing them shagging with his OC).

So I’d be really grateful for some advice, XXXX

Should I just ignore everything and hope it burns out, or am I within my rights (as the creator of my OC’s) to ask him to not write them? As I say, where he has got to now, he does not need them, he just wants them for the porn. I’m not asking him to do a big rewrite, just not to write them into anything else. I don’t want to ‘out’ him.

Apparently in the pagan community, if people fell out with him he would threaten to ‘Fuck up their wyrd’ which I take to mean their entire lives, temporal and spiritual. He probably thinks he can, as well! That’s not why I don’t want to ‘out’ him, by the way, just that well...he’s not harming anyone, just aggravating me, so I think quietly is the way to go.

Thank you for reading this ramble, sorry it was so long. I thought I was overreacting until I read Seb’s history and realised he was doing (or trying to do) in fandom what he had done to people in the pagan community.

Take care Reply 1like

AnnEllspethRaven

Jul 6, 2020

Well, my thoughts settled. What you have described herein falls into the category of "gobsmacking bullshit" that I referenced in the body of the essay. The first thing that comes to mind is that anyone of a creative bent could have the time or interest to channel their efforts into this kind of communication or (let's sum it up) Teh Dramaz. This is why I don't watch TMZ, read entertainment magazines, or I guess go to parties. I just can't, it begins to feel otherworldly. Reading all this, I am just glad things settled for you however you were rid of the hassle. Going through the decline and passing of a parent...we've discussed this enough elsewhere and while our experiences were different they were profoundly devastating. It is indeed not something that leaves a person with extra energy to battle cosmic unicorns in the seventh dimension or whatever plane or planet is under discussion (gimme a multiverse, tell me what colour the sky is, beam me up!).

Regardless, I am grateful if this small corner of literary #WeToo gave a means to vent all around. I certainly feel better, and shall return to my projects. I am certain you will do the same! <3 Reply 1like

spicedwinefanfic

Edited Jul 7, 2020

There is so much more, which I won’t go into. Comments about this person, the damage he’s caused to people: dozing them, writing to government agencies about them, being the cause of people being physically attacked.

As I‘ve said, had I the energy at the time I would have put my foot down much earlier. (I began to have major doubts very early)

In one fic I wrote of a Mirror Fëanor created, pieces of which ended up scattered throughout the multiverse. And what was one thing he could think it would be used for? Vanimórë (after the destruction of the universe) using it to watch the main OC masturbating while using a dildo.

This incensed me. As did the comments of Vanimórë clearly being a perv. Of course it was a perverted thing to do, and Vanimórë never would. He has better things to do than watch some grotty little tit pleasuring himself 🙄 and never would anyhow; it’s just not the kind of thing he would do. It’s the author who was a perv, not my character. I was infuriated. It was clear then, and had been clear for a while, that the author didn’t know my characters in the slightest and was just using them for his own sexual gratification. Unlike him you read the last chapter of Magnificat IV; from the comments I received on AO3 and Faerie, the readers did absolutely comprehend how shattered Vanimórë was — he didn’t, because apparently Van’s so unfazed that all he can think of doing is being a voyeur.

If he wants to write what’s basically self-insert role play, fine; not with my characters, though. Reply 1like

AnnEllspethRaven

Jul 7, 2020

Wow. That is indeed incredibly out of character. I will not claim to be acquainted with how Van was used in all the other person's stories but I did read one out of curiosity just to see how Van 'was' and the depth of 'not-Van' characterization struck me quite a bit. I felt it was a Stepford-Van, the physical trappings of a Van but generally a vanilla wealthy mattress stallion and not recognizable as the intricate spirit forged out of thousands of years of trial and survival. The mirror-gate you describe would be a horrid misapplication of any creation of Fëanor; however sexually passionate your Fëanor may be, there is a difference between passion and insatiable, omni-directional lust. Makes me wonder if there is much comprehension there of the fëa Míriel bequeathed to her only-begotten, the burning brilliance meant for so much more than mere carnality; the mind that could not stop at even the Silmarilli but had to conceive of more, and more, and greater...far beyond what rests on the head of a dildo -_- so I can certainly understand your dismay and ire. It'd be so much easier if the person would simply stick to their own OCs. There is a subreddit r/Sindarin where one can get help with a nice elvish moniker, grammatically sound and everything. Alas. Reply 1like

spicedwinefanfic

Edited Jul 8, 2020

No there was no comprehension of who and what Fëanor was at all. I could never swallow the ‘is really Fëanor’, and never believed it. I’ve seen Fëanor written as mad, bad and dangerous to know, 😏 but never as someone who is only interested in who he can shag and who can shag him 🙄

An author has to make a reader believe in their story, but then his fics are not stories — they’re role-play. There’s no story at all, just the same thing over and over again. Fine, write it, but in the Silm fandom, no-one’s going to end up being hugely read by real Silm fans for something that is just role-play. Tumblr is the place to publish role play.

Silm-fic readers tend to also want to read about actual canon characters. Of course you and I both write OC’s, but we also write canon characters, too.

The bit you read was a mild OOC-ness for Vanimórë (even though he would never be with anyone like the OC in any universe anyhow)

I did wonder, very early on if the author was in fact trolling me, as Vanimórë was so OOC. As the first fic was for charity, I just shrugged and let it go.

At the end of the day, I think his lying, childish tantrum was supposed to get me ostracised from the Tolkien fandom, but although very few people know anything about it, I’m sure that those who have known me for many years would simply not believe his spite and falsehoods. He knows nothing about me at all, because everything is always about him. He wants certain things to be true and they simply are not. This is just his modus operandi; it’s how he acts. As someone said of him on a Tumblr comment, ‘same shit, different date on the calendar.‘ He acts like he writes, the same scenario over and over. Reply

AnnEllspethRaven

Jul 6, 2020

I have so many things to say about this...my thoughts need to settle a bit. I shall return...Reply 1like

spicedwinefanfic

Edited Jul 6, 2020

This was an amazing essay, and quite true.

Of course the person mentioned doesn’t want to engage in comments, as it might lead to revelations he most definitely doesn’t want to come to light: that he’s been engaging in this behaviour for at least 15 years in different communities and always leaves them (claiming bullying) and reinvents himself when people call out his BS. (There are so many links online about him I was utterly gobsmacked when I read it because his behaviour — taking into consideration the different venues — was exactly the same.

The onus is on him to correct his behaviour but he never has and never will, I think. He need ‘followers’ and he needs drama, and to feel himself above everyone else. (Hence claiming, even years ago, to actually be a god on the astral plane).

My mistake with him really, was to assume he‘d actually read my work and could write my OC’s, not just take them and mould them into sexual drones serving ’him’. A few people have written Vanimórë (going back years) and written him well, so I just assumed he would. I’m not *that* strict about it, but if you’ve written a character over 14 years, you expect there to be some resemblance. I don’t think that’s arbitrary.

He was just bitching and fuming because he planned to write some OOC rubbish that now he can’t. And that’s it. Reply 2likes

Note: there is one last comment that for whatever reason I cannot include in the post; if anyone is actually reading this please find the same entry at DeviantArt under the same username to finish reading; sorry for the inconvenience!

#bullying #writing #fandom drama #fandom toxicity #defamation

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